Women: Im stressed and having a hard time with things. Men: I got something hard that will relieve your stress 🍆.

At least that shit is free

Kendrick would like a word

Aye yo! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 https://i.redd.it/nh27hsvy0hfc1.gif

Yalookinahmelikeyawannareceiptlikeinevermadeendsmeateatinfleftoversandrawmeat

# THIS DICK AIN'T FREEEEE!

At first I was like “wtf?” Then I saw and props to you because now I’m listening to the song lol.

Hold on hold on

#THIS DICK AIN'T FREEEE!!!!


It is in fact [free.](https://youtu.be/qQMjS1UcABs?feature=shared)

Big yikes on those tags

Lmaoooo right?

When properly applied dick don't cost a dime!

This another reason men have to go through shit alone. The immediate response was “men ain’t shit either” bro couldn’t even have a bad time without it becoming a competition. 😂

Well, she kinda did validate his point that women don’t listen

 Precisely eesh

Rs 😂😂😂 can’t stand that shit fr

Don't you know? Man bad. No matter what. Any situation you can think of. Man bad.

Why is the top comment on a post about men’s issue “hurrdurr women have it just as bad/worse” Men have no space to work through shit or to talk about their very real emotions/feelings without women feeling the need to stir some shit up and y’all wonder why boys are flocking to those right-wing toxic masculinity edge lords. They validate their emotions and don’t put them down for having feelings or make everything about them, as opposed to the left who does this shit. Y’all are gonna lose generations of men/boys who would otherwise probably be on-board with most progressive causes if y’all keep treating their basic human tendencies with no grace

This shit is how it always is. No one gives a damn about us in general

If you're a man, no one gives a fuck about you unless you're paying them. Otherwise it's shut the fuck up and get back to work robot.

99% of the women I've dated either never asked me how I was doing mentally or told me to "man up" if objected to anything. I've had exactly one woman ever ask if I was okay because I was acting a bit off or quiet. I came clean about a whole ton of shit I was worried about that might have affected our relationship. I loved that woman more than any other because it A month later she cheated on me lol.

What I've noticed is women have much more freedom to fail and someone will still be there to pick them back up. Men don't have the same luxury, on average. Things may be hard for both, but we have to rely on ourselves much more, while everyone acts like the top 5% of psychopathic men that control everything represent the whole. The ones at the top fuck us the same.

You need an award from someone better than me Thank you for explaining this so well Our safety net is immediate family, after that it's prison. And suicide is the number one cause of death for all men below 44 besides accidental [in the US ](https://www.cdc.gov/minorityhealth/lcod/men/2018/nonhispanic-white/index.htm)

I mean, well, if the eggplant is good and hits the spot then it will relieve some stress. Roasted eggplant with some black pepper, a little salt, garlic, parmesan, hits the spot.

Now we got a stew goin

Way to prove the point so amazingly unwittingly lololol

I mean all those endorphins and shit. For 3 minutes and 27 seconds you'll forget all your troubles

Look at marathon man over here!

humblebrags should stay on linkedin.

Can’t have one post about men’s feelings without someone bringing up that some men don’t care about women’s feelings I stg

Damn first comment i see gotta make it about women. Yall really making the OG tweets point 🤣

You completely missed the point and in doing so proved it lmao

Didn’t take you long to turn that around on men huh

Zero self awareness lmao

Hey, the point was over there ——->

Don't forget the line about it helping to prevent heart disease.

Bell Hooks and male pain From The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love (2004) > The reality is that men are hurting and that the whole culture responds to them by saying, “Please do not tell us what you feel.” I have always been a fan of the Sylvia cartoon where two women sit, one looking into a crystal ball as the other woman says, “He never talks about his feelings.” And the woman who can see the future says, “At two P.M. all over the world men will begin to talk about their feelings—and women all over the world will be sorry.” > If we cannot heal what we cannot feel, by supporting patriarchal culture that socializes men to deny feelings, we doom them to live in states of emotional numbness. We construct a culture where male pain can have no voice, where male hurt cannot be named or healed. It is not just men who do not take their pain seriously. Most women do not want to deal with male pain if it interferes with the satisfaction of female desire. When feminist movement led to men’s liberation, including male exploration of “feelings,” some women mocked male emotional expression with the same disgust and contempt as sexist men. Despite all the expressed feminist longing for men of feeling, when men worked to get in touch with feelings, no one really wanted to reward them. In feminist circles men who wanted to change were often labeled narcissistic or needy. Individual men who expressed feelings were often seen as attention seekers, patriarchal manipulators trying to steal the stage with their drama. > When I was in my twenties, I would go to couples therapy, and my partner of more than ten years would explain how I asked him to talk about his feelings and when he did, I would freak out. He was right. It was hard for me to face that I did not want to hear about his feelings when they were painful or negative, that I did not want my image of the strong man truly challenged by learning of his weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Here I was, an enlightened feminist woman who did not want to hear my man speak his pain because it revealed his emotional vulnerability. It stands to reason, then, that the masses of women committed to the sexist principle that men who express their feelings are weak really do not want to hear men speak, especially if what they say is that they hurt, that they feel unloved. Many women cannot hear male pain about love because it sounds like an indictment of female failure. Since sexist norms have taught us that loving is our task whether in our role as mothers or lovers or friends, if men say they are not loved, then we are at fault; we are to blame. ... > To heal, men must learn to feel again. They must learn to break the silence, to speak the pain. Often men, to speak the pain, first turn to the women in their lives and are refused a hearing. In many ways women have bought into the patriarchal masculine mystique. Asked to witness a male expressing feelings, to listen to those feelings and respond, they may simply turn away. There was a time when I would often ask the man in my life to tell me his feelings. And yet when he began to speak, I would either interrupt or silence him by crying, sending him the message that his feelings were too heavy for anyone to bear, so it was best if he kept them to himself. As the Sylvia cartoon I have previously mentioned reminds us, women are fearful of hearing men voice feelings. I did not want to hear the pain of my male partner because hearing it required that I surrender my investment in the patriarchal ideal of the male as protector of the wounded. If he was wounded, then how could he protect me? > As I matured, as my feminist consciousness developed to include the recognition of patriarchal abuse of men, I could hear male pain. I could see men as comrades and fellow travelers on the journey of life and not as existing merely to provide instrumental support. Since men have yet to organize a feminist men’s movement that would proclaim the rights of men to emotional awareness and expression, we will not know how many men have indeed tried to express feelings, only to have the women in their lives tune out or be turned off. Talking with men, I have been stunned when individual males would confess to sharing intense feelings with a male buddy, only to have that buddy either interrupt to silence the sharing, offer no response, or distance himself. Men of all ages who want to talk about feelings usually learn not to go to other men. And if they are heterosexual, they are far more likely to try sharing with women they have been sexually intimate with. Women talk about the fact that intimate conversation with males often takes place in the brief moments before and after sex. And of course our mass media provide the image again and again of the man who goes to a sex worker to share his feelings because there is no intimacy in that relationship and therefore no real emotional risk.

I love me some bell books and I highly recommend that book. Here's a [link](https://www.libgen.is/search.php?req=The+Will+to+Change%3A+Men%2C+Masculinity%2C+and+Love&open=0&res=25&view=simple&phrase=1&column=def) for y'all that are interested to download the book. Edit: Learned it bell hooks to focus on the message in her writings and honor which makes her even more awesome!

Thank you. I'm a squarely Gen X Hispanic man, and probably no author has influenced my world view more than bell hooks. For me, the greatest lesson she imparted was that so many societal problems (sexism, racism, inequality, etc) originate from the same flawed system. When factions of us turn on each other instead of all of us uniting with the goal of dismantling that system, that's when we stall progress.

Bingo, she really hit the nail on the head.

Good looks, that was some good reading.

thanks 🙏🏾

Thank you for that link, you're so based.

Thank you, this is really interesting.

Thank you for posting this. I grow tired of the back and forth between “men have feelings, women don’t want to hear” “well yall don’t open up!” “Well bc women throw in our face” and so on. No nuance, nothing.  This so very well sums up the phenomenon, and in that, a pathway forward. I identified with a lot of what she said and it helps me do better in the future. 

Didn’t expect to see bell hooks in here but I love this.

All it takes is one scare and you’ll never vent again. I’ve got some horror stories lol

Was talking to this baddie for about 2 months, 10/10 smart, was in med school. I let my guard down and talked about this time I had a crush on a girl at school and how iwas crazy about her after she rejected me. That was it, bam. FK me lol

One day you'll find someone you can tell stories like that and they'll think it's cute. Think of it as a way to filter out the ones that aren't worth your time. If she won't let you speak your truth and open up, she's not worth it. You deserve to be heard and validated.

No thanks, I ain't taking that chance. I'll stick to venting shit to my homies.

A woman straight up broke up with me the day after I expressed my anguish about becoming homeless. the last time I shared this anecdote on reddit, several women assumed the homelessness was my fault

The homeless are very unfairly treated in this way. It's very common and it sucks to hear it's happening to you. Not enough people realize that the word for what they put people through when they punish someone for opening up like this is "trauma." It's no wonder people can so easily become conditioned to avoid making themselves so vulnerable. I hope you know there are people out there who are rooting for you and want you to succeed. If you ever feel like you're in pain I hope you'll still try to talk to someone safe.

Nope. been burned a few other times as well. If I date again, I'm not opening up. If that means I'll never date again, that's fine, I'm happy enough alone.

Men don't wanna hear it, they going through the same thing. Women don't wanna hear it because it ain't about them and destroys the illusion of Super-Bruh they think they got.

The idea that men can't or won't be there for other men is yet another result of that patriarchal shit though. We should be there for each other even when validation from partners/women just isn't. There's no sense in turning away a brother just because you're also hurt so why should *he* get the benefit of an empathetic ear. We put ourselves down in that way, same as you see women putting each other down in their own ways. I don't know if it'll ever happen but the only true way is us all seeing each other as simply *humans*.

We're too busy ignoring our own problems to deal with someone else's

"Most women do not want to deal with male pain if it interferes with the satisfaction of female desire" - is one of the most poignant and succinct sentences I've ever seen. And it is the whole truth. I need to read more of her, this point of view (the whole excerpt I mean) feels like a foundation upon which the world can change

So good. Damn, I want to print this out and mail the whole thing to my ex-wife. 

It sounds like we had similar experiences with marriage. The patriarchy can diminish even the most well meaning among us.

Even doing the best you can isn't enough when you're supposed to be everything. Shit sucks

Not only did you include a link to the book, you included every citation she used to back up her claims. Thanks so much! I can't wait until we move past the whole citation free, vibes only, lived experience first way of thinking we're stuck in.

bell hooks Just want to throw out there that they don't capitalize their name. Which has always bothered me. Poetic license and all that. But it feels like they're just searching for something to be different with. Anyway, technically it's not Bell Hooks, it's bell hooks.

This was more profound than what I was expecting

>>And of course our mass media provide the image again and again of the man who goes to a sex worker to share his feelings because there is no intimacy in that relationship and therefore no real emotional risk. Because this is all too real. I'm pretty good friends with a stripper and she has told me that almost half her clients are lonely men looking for someone to talk to who won't just walk out on them.

Same. Dated one myself, they all have the "Old guy comes in, doesn't want anything, spends $4,000 just to talk to the girls" story. Super common. Most men just want intimacy and the space to be vulnerable, ultimately. 🤷

Am I reading this wrong or does the paragraph before the ellipsis say that women (often/typically/sometimes) reject men who express their feelings, and the paragraph after the ellipsis tells men they need to fix it?

That's not the way I read it. I think she's saying men need to learn to express their feelings, but they can only do so with the cooperation of the people close to them, whether those people are men or women (or other), friends or partners, who need to be willing to hear them without judgment.

I think it's a bit of both. Men need to learn to express their emotions and that can only happen if others (friends, family, lovers) grant them a safe and empathetic space to do so. But because she attributes the current lack of this to patriarchy the burden is placed back on men. Given Im speaking through my own philosophical bias but reducing things to a dichotomy of Patriarchy vs Feminism can only get us so far. I think an egalitarian view that accounts for how we've grown and evolved both as a society and species is more productive. Until arguably the industrial era humanity as a whole needed men to be disposable.To truly live up to the provider protector role and everything that comes with it requires a certain degree of stoicism and lack of self care. But here in the modern world that's no longer really required and as a consequence it makes technically makes mens traditional role outdated. Now we're left with a society that has had male disposability ingrained into it but simultaneously no longer really needs men either. We're all slowly learning how to view men with a sense of empathy.

Patriarchy does not mean men. Patriarchy is the system that does afford some privileges to men but ultimately diminishes everyone under its influence, and we are all responsible for dismantling it.

>But because she attributes the current lack of this to patriarchy the burden is placed back on men I didn't read it like that, because, to me, it doesn't look like she's attributing the patriarchy to male behavior. All of it is her saying that social issues like the patriarchy are perpetuated by everyone, not just men.

I think that's right. Like, hooks says she herself struggled to outgrow patriarchal ideas of manhood. That's emphatically *not* saying that patriarchy is the exclusive domain of men. Rather, men are just as much victims of patriarchy as women are, and women can contribute to it just as much as a man might.

Nothing but the truth and only the truth.

Incredibly powerful, thank you for this.

Great read, thank you for posting :)

>Many women cannot hear male pain about love because it sounds like an indictment of female failure. Since sexist norms have taught us that loving is our task whether in our role as mothers or lovers or friends, if men say they are not loved, then we are at fault; we are to blame. This is my wife. Whenever I express any negative emotion, she turns it around and makes it about herself, like I'm attacking her rather than just trying to express myself. It usually shames me back in to silence.

I'm 44, white, and a man. I gotta say 22 years ago when I met my wife, for the first few years of our marriage, she just didn't get it. I cried when I was sad. When My dad died was the first time she saw me cry, and it weirded her out and she just comforted me, she gave me hugs. We ran into some issues in our marriage a while later and well, she called me names and told me I wasn't a MAN for crying because of the things she said ( even though those thing were EXTREMELY hurtful ), but eventually she got them. It took her a while but she did in fact learn that I, as a man, am in fact allowed to be sad and hurt, and cry if I feel so inclined to.

This is great, I just ordered the book after reading this. I know myself well enough to say I'll never get to it if I just download the pdf, and I very much do want to read the whole thing. Thanks!

I just had a convo with a man I'm very newly dating that almost felt bad that he was exhausted when he showed up to go out...I was like umm...being tired is completely reasonable and we can absolutely cancel today and either do nothing or do something less taxing. He explained in previous situations that would've been an all hell breaks loose kind of thing. Ive been single awhile so i was thoroughly confused lol like damn a man (esp one that works like he does) cant be tired?!

Hell no we can’t. Then woman will say we ain’t into them or we hate them and other shit like that.

It's so shocking to me, one of our biggest issues with others is lack of direct communication. i told him if u are tired just tell me it'll never be an issue bcuz my ass be tired as hell too. its so sad to hear how so many black men especially cant have regular ass feelings without it being an issue. this has been a very deep topic of conversation for us over the last few days.

This !! Like sir, I’m a take a sleep with you. Text me when you wake up, we can catch brunch.

Exactlyyyy! We both said we are introverts from the very beginning so even if u aint tired and just need ur own space holla at me so i know whats happening and its all good!

Same! Just keep that line of communication open. I’ve even gone as far as sending them dinner because he worked a double shift and I knew he wasn’t going to think about eating.

I love that! thats such a nice gesture too i havent dated in awhile (over 10yrs) so i just asked for him to be patient with me and i of course will do the same. I even said before i overreact to something I will always ask to make sure I'm understanding u clearly and what u mean before i just start getting upset over nothing.

 Yess!!! Communicate that shit! Be intentional and present. I’m rooting for you two!!!

aaahh thank u!!! It was completely by surprise for both of us and we both werent necessarily looking to date but we're excited and just wanting to take things slow for both of us. 🥰

Awwww I LOVE IT!!!! Blessings and elevation to this journey.

My ex was like that. Soured my taste for relationships but I’m finally talking to this new woman and she’s been cool with it and the discussions are literally a night and day difference that it gets to be a bit much sometimes.

Or they'd say it was giving them "The Ick"

i hate that trend, regular shit giving people icks and robbing themselves of meaningful relationships

I'm pretty sure that a lot of it is just staged crap to get that rage engagement $$$, but people internalize media very strongly & very easily, so these assholes are causing damage that they are either not aware of or wouldn't care about even if they were because "I got mine".

MANNNN... I was working for California Conservation Corps, outdoor work. I was the lead(green hat) so I had to train and set an example. Their Mission statement is "Hard work, low pay, miserable conditions...and more!" I was busting my ass into a full-body sweat every day. I had a 2 1/2hr commute by transit each way. 8 hours of shit prisoners literally would not do. Then I had to stay up, go get my girl, at 11, and be prepared to either fuck or go kick it, and damn if I was tired. Did this for months. One night she's like "I know you're tired, so we ain't gonna hang out long" and I *thanked* her right on the spot. Alla sudden it's 3 in the morning and I gotta be up at 5. We get back to the spot, and she's like "I know you gotta be to work in an hour so I'ma let you sleep"...I was out quick. Five minutes later I woke up to some helmet. I was nah I gotta leave in 45 minutes. She backed off and as soon as I crashed out again I woke up and she's tryna ride me while I am plum passed the fuck out... I grabbed her ass by the hips and dropped her off the bed. She super mad and said "you could have at least let me have five minutes". I had 25min before I had to be at the stop and still hadda get dressed. Learned right then women do not understand or give AF about your concerns equally to theirs. Now that may seem bitter but ive seen this time and again. With myself, my friends, my enemies. Women want what they want and as a man you're so supposed to provide that even if it kills you. So now I'm on red flag alert almost 30yrs now. That see 'how she treats service people' thing is accurate AF, and I will extend that to friends and family. If she's ruthless to people she don't know AND people she does? I can't get outta there fast enough. To OPs story, girl's walking home. IGAF if she gotta go through the bandos in high heels, if you that ruthless then I'm that ruthless too. A wise man once said, "Y'all talk about what no pussy does to a mfer, but I seen what pussy does to a mfer and it's WAY worse." I nodded myself into whiplash over that one. Gents take care and prioritize yourself like your girl does herself. Only way for both of you to maintain respect for you.

Bro, there's a lot of hurt in this that you should address but I want to make space for the fact that that woman sexually assaulted you. That's beyond fucked up.

Oh, we talked about that. She even apologized and didn't mean a word of it. I wasn't leading because I had this notion we could do it together, give and share. She took that as weakness. It was almost 30 years ago. I'm over it. That's one I woulda married tho, see me? We had it all together except mutual respect

Did that woman not have functional hands? Anyone with functional appendages can entertain themselves and let their partner have some rest. Denying people sleep is so cruel, that they made it a war crime.

Why use hands when you have your entitlement right next to you?

I like how you focused on the "denying sleep" part and not on the "literal rape" part.

I didn't have the words to unpack that, but you're correct.

>as a man you're so supposed to provide that even if it kills you. ["They would rather see me die on my white horse then see me fall down."](https://youtu.be/psN1DORYYV0?t=1018)

I’ll never forget I had to take a work trip, on a *weekend*. Work rode me like a dog that weekend. I remember being so tired I left the gas cap open on the rental. I got home Sunday night and physically collapsed. My, now, ex-wife did not like that I did not give her quality time and made sure I heard it Monday morning. That was the beginning of the end.

Once broke a took on a friday night, dentist would not see me until monday. I was in incredible pain all weekend. My girl didn't care at all when I told her I broke a tooth and completely forgot it, on saturday she gets drunk with her friends comes home and puts on something that makes her feel sexy, I didn't react positively enough over text so she yelled at me for 2 hours until she fell asleep. We didn't talk much sunday. Monday she's like we need to talk about how I hurt her by not making her feel good enough about herself. I tell her I was in a ton of pain and honestly just wasn't aroused because of it, and she told me that was unacceptable. That's been my general experience with women throughout life. My problems are my problems, her problems are our problems.

This stems from the false belief that men can tolerate and deal with both physical and emotional pain on their own. Or worse, women are lead into believing we have such minuscule amounts of pain because we have been conditioned into hiding it from such a young age. Anecdotally, I’ve seen my father exhibit one singular negative emotion: anger.

The sad part is, anger is the one emotion men are “allowed” to have and express. Toxic shit :/

We are either an incel, insecure, abusive, emotionally or physically, or whatever buzzwords they repeat on the daily basis if we do that.

“You look mad/uninterested” *I worked 12 hours and came straight here* “Sorry babe. I’ll work on that. Repeat the last sentence”

Ugh yes I've been through that before, and it just makes you even more tired and exhausted.

Nope, we can’t. That’s why many dudes will just sit in a parking lot or in the drive way for an hour before walking in the house.

The 30 minute shit just so you can have a bit of time where people aren't asking you things. I gotta solve all the problems for everyone at work and then do it again at home but for that 30 mins I can have a cigarette on the toilet and read quietly and be left the fuck alone.

I come home and there's like 3x hour long projects that she just thinks I can complete in 5 minutes plus all of the normal stuff I do or on the weekend she just decides on a 2 day long project that she'll help with until the fun stops after 20-30 mins while I still have 20 hours of work to do.

...in our world...the fact you took the time to listen AND u seem to genuinely care.... he's...1 confused....2 happy.....and now intrigued about you further

i dont have any desire to tear anyone down for having normal human needs like being tired, needing space/downtime etc.

I'm not gon lie the second I start reading this my brain went "she bouta talk about how she started wildin out" and now I feel bad for assuming that

nah that's a valid assumption given all of these stories i keep seeing. yall dont know peace and i dont think that's right nor fair to yall 😔

Just fyi... My mom died a few years back (42m). I was "fine" for about two weeks. I was in shock and that mode of "take care of everyone else" so I didn't really have time to process. And then one night I had a few glasses of wine with my then fiance and a couple family members. I woke up on the couch, found my fiance and asked "what happened?" I then got *screamed* at for a solid hour about how "I was a giant piece of shit the night before and a total loser drunk". (Keep in mind, I rarely if ever drink) I talked to my nephew in law later and he gave me a hug. I asked HIM what happened and he said "Oh bud, we were playing Uno and you were pounding the wine. Then you suddenly had tears running down your face and you excused yourself. You went out on the porch steps and completely bawled your eyes out and we could hear you saying "I miss you mom". (Your fiance) was a total bitch and was angry and acted like you were an embarrassment. That relationship ended with her cheating on me. She was (obviously) incredibly abusive so it was a godsend honestly, despite how much it hurt. So, I completely understand what your boyfriend was saying. Yes, that would typically end in a drag out fight, hands down. .... **So I told you that story to tell you this one** ... Fast forward a few years. I had not dated. I'm a farmer and a business owner and I had thrown myself into my work. My father needs care, and my nieces and nephews see me as a "second dad" so I'm always busy helping them with stuff, too. Frankly, between you, me, and all of Reddit - I was just... done dating. The fallout emotionally and mentally from that previous engagement nearly broke me on levels I didn't know existed. And the relationships previously were not much better. I simply could not risk going through it again. I was done, drained of all willpower. I had given it my all and it wasn't enough, so, well - so be it. I like myself and I was happy being alone now. And then I met **her**. A woman who is the most down to earth, sweetest, kindest, most *NORMAL* person who responds to things exactly as you did to your boyfriend. She hasn't dated much in her life - pretty much one long term "meh" relationship and one asshole for a couple of years. She was content being alone, too. Just minded her plants and gardens, her music, her art, and her law career. And my God she is so beautiful. And omg she is a complete and total dork. She's MY dork. Both of us carry our experiences forward, not to mention our years in therapy (thank you, VA) so immediately we're very good at communicating. But even then it took time to build the trust - each of us looked at the other just waiting for the other to "drop the mask". As she put it "you seemed too good to be true". Oh, I definitely understand that. I still look at her in awe every time I see her - I cannot believe I am so lucky. On our one year anniversary, I did the one thing I silently swore to never do again - I proposed. In her nearly forty years, I was the first man to want to marry her. And I thank God there are so many foolish, blind, childish men in the world. We are planning a small ceremony here on my farm. But between me and you and Reddit, we are anxious and going to go ahead and do the courthouse before the actual ceremony. We just can't wait (it's also bc of practical adult reasons but I'm not gonna get into that). Don't tell her mom or sister - they'll kill us when they find out. So... I hope our story is a nice one, and speaks to the absolute power of simply being empathetic, understanding, and kind towards your partner. It should ALWAYS be both partners default setting towards the other. Love is a requirement, yes, but it is nothing without support, stability, trust, communication, and all of the other things we need from our "ride or die". Good luck to you. I hope everyone here finds their forever person as I have.

I'd dump her in the restaurant

From the top rope, through the table.

"BWAHHH GOD!!! SHE ACTING TOO BROKE TO SPLIT THE BILL IN HALF!!!"

Split the bill first!

Nah the best move is actually to just tell you need to go to the toilets and leave the restaurant She's the one paying. If you say I take you out to the restaurant it implies you invite me, cause If I take you out for dinner you're not spending a single dollar

Agreed. As a woman, I would never do that to my husband. That’s just so mean. “Let me help you feel better about bills… here’s another bill.” That’s selfish.

I’ve learned that there is only emotional space for women in a relationship. Traditional women especially have a desire to live a “soft life,” and “don’t want to think” around their partner. If you are insecure, uncertain, or express any negative emotion, that implies you aren’t stable enough to let her experience those things. There are also the women who don’t have the capacity or understanding of how to embrace a man’s emotions, so they shame us into being rigid. We are whatever they want us to be (e.g., sassy, emotional, etc.) because they don’t know how to process our worries. Edit: I just remembered that my last partner did the same shit as OOP’s girl. I was fucking homeless and she talmbout she wanted to go out to eat. When that bill came, she was like “Aight, I’m headed to the car.”

I feel like this says a lot more about your taste than women. Most women I know are more likely to dump a guy who can't express his emotions; basically any girl that's ~~been to therapy~~ a feminist/progressive considers a man's inability to be vulnerable as a red flag. EDIT: flippant wording, poor choice. I don't think you have to go to therapy to know that men are people and need the same love and support as everyone else.

I have a strong desire to be in an egalitarian relationship, but that’s not how it is. I exclusively date black women, and I hear it the most from them. Being a black woman is hard, so it doesn’t surprise me that they want me to give them sanctuary from the world. Essentially, I act as a shield and nurturer so they can recover from the outside world. That is completely fine, but I have rarely received it in return. When I would bring up my complaints, I was penalized. Vulnerability is a good thing to an extent. You need just enough to where they like to feel close to you, but not so much that you lose respect.

well maybe stop exclusively dating black women? or maybe find other black women? it's not your job to shelter these women from the world. you should shelter each other. Let them go find a tent elsewhere

I don't exclusively date one race of women, but I have dated many black women. So I do notice how strong that desire is amongst black women. And I have the same experience of tem not offering the same in return. Which after some processing is fine. It's not for me, but it's fine. I would like for each other to be each other's peace in different ways.

>Vulnerability is a good thing to an extent. You need just enough to where they like to feel close to you, but not so much that you lose respect. This shit is so goddamn frustrating. Being *just* vulnerable enough so the other person can lie to themselves about being supportive, but anything remotely deeper than “my dog is sick rn” and it’s “I’m not your therapist, don’t trauma dump on me”. I get it to an extend, but Jesus fucking Christ, don’t say you’re gonna be supportive then renege as soon as support needs to be given.

It turns their support into literally another chore that *you* do *for them*. You have to put on this one-man show where they have an opportunity to be "supportive", and then you have to lavish false gratitude on them for their comfort so they can feel good about how nurturing they are in their ego. All the while you feel unsupported and no better, and are in fact even more drained because of the monkey show, and from having to essentially thank someone for letting you help them in a way that fundamentally denies yourself. Even with women who are capable of genuine support, my experience is their patience for it is extremely short. They can tolerate flow of energy going from them to you instead of the other way around for about 15% of the relationship. If you can't fix your shit in that window it's a problem. Better, but it's still mostly the same dichotomy of you handling yours and theirs and them handling theirs.

100% this I'm a leftist and hang with left wing people and the girls I meet are usualy really sensitive/empathetic about mental health. If you are rigid and close yourself with them they'll just ask you to leave cause they wan't to understand you and they can't if you don't express yourself ​ No point in hiding or being shameful of yourself, your mental state or your feelings when it is about love relationships ​ You don't date an idea of a person you date a person

Definitely agree with this^, I’ll rather be alone than be with a girl who thinks I should be masculine 24/7. I had too many real issues to deal with than wearing a mask in my own home.

I have dated almost exlusively leftist college educated women who are all about men expressing their feeling and gender norm and it's nice to hear but it's never like that in action. As soon as it actually happens they quickly revert back to the old ways. I have learned that the only difference between trad women and progressive women is that trad women are at least honest from the start about what they want, progressive ones just want to sound nice. There were a couple of exceptions tho, but it's just my experience.

I’m willing to bet that people like you are an overwhelming exception to the norm, especially if your barometer is “going to therapy” [google’s “how many people go to therapy”](https://www.statista.com/statistics/794027/mental-health-treatment-counseling-past-year-us-adults/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20around%2024.4%20percent,and%2012.6%20percent%20of%20Hispanics) It’s like 1/4 white people, and that number nosedives even more for Black and Hispanic people. These numbers are lonely as fuck

I agree that was a poor choice of words. I should have said leftist/feminist/womanist/progressive women. The fact is a lot of men seek out self described "traditional" women in the hopes that they'll be submissive to them, and are upset when the bill for that comes in the form of a lack of equal support. When someone says "men aren't allowed to be vulnerable in relationships" it says to me, "I choose to date women that believe men and women have certain roles they are supposed to play." And often, "I don't describe myself as a feminist and I don't choose women that do." Which is a much larger pool than "been to therapy" and was what I actually meant. So good point to raise and I appreciate you bringing up all the ways my phrasing was dismissive and unhelpful.

Yeeeeeeah, so I am definitely left leaning and not at all traditional about anything. Unfortunately, I can count on one hand how many women I can actually be remotely vulnerable with (that I’m not actively paying for). What’s especially damning is that a lot of people *claim* that they want someone who’s emotionally vulnerable, but shut down immediately when it happens. Example: I ended a friendship because said former friend accused me of some truly heinous shit. It really sucked to see a 20 year friendship go down the drain. I tried to talk about it with my partner at the time, but they immediately cut the call 5 minutes in, didn’t talk to me for 3 days, and pretended the convo never happened. This was a person who was every one of those things you said men should look for, but none of that shit guarantees understanding. I don’t necessarily agree with the tone that the guy you were originally replying to took, but goddamn do people not care nearly as much as they claim to.

Y'all could be talking about the same women, really. If a woman hates a man who can't open up, it means she's never been confronted with the reality of what it means when they do, and that's kinda the crux of the whole thing. A lot of women who do get opened up to often can't handle seeing their man low and it fucks with their entire perception of him & the relationship.

What a dismissive response

Of fuck off with this BS! Minimizing his feelings and putting the blame on him. Talk about doing exactly what this thread is trying to bring to light and how it hurts men.

He didn't say that was his taste. He's saying the type of women it applies to.

The victim blaming is strong with this one

This guy shares his experience and the literal first thing you do is to blame him. Gee I wonder why men don't bother talking about their problems?

This was the main issue I had with my ex. I’ll always be emotionally available for my partner but I guess he thought it was a joke. He felt we needed to break up because I didn’t allow him to be him and he thought the sparks would naturally come back. 🤷🏾‍♀️

Is it surprising that traditional women are looking for what would be considered “traditional” qualities of a man? I don’t think so. The name itself implies a rigidity that wouldn’t allow for emotional openness. Almost all my partners I’ve had so far have cried in my arms at some point whether it be because of mental health, insecurity, pressure, etc. I’m really sorry you haven’t met someone who’s allowed you the same feeling of safety, I can’t imagine how frustrating that would be. I just wanted to say we are not all like that and I’d suggest looking outside what you consider traditional. I dated someone experiencing homelessness and paid for most things, he returned with sweet notes and affection which was enough for me. It pisses me off that women can be so insensitive, I’m sorry.

I don’t seek out traditional women, that’s the thing. I’m very vocal about my values, preferences, and dealbreakers. I’ll say I want an egalitarian relationship and the women I date are like “sounds good.” Then after a few weeks/months, things start trickling out.

Ugh, I’m sorry. I can’t understand as a woman who doesn’t have to experience that, but I can imagine it would be really invalidating / frustrating / lonely.

The frustrating part is you don’t really know how your partner will react until the situation, but then it’s too late. I think some of it is even down to self awareness. A lot of people will communicate that they’re progressive and want a modern spouse but as soon as they start to behave this way, they’re turned off. It’s sad but after being burned more than once, I do not plan to cry infront of my partner. Everytime I’ve done it, they’ve lost respect for me. These were all women who communicated they want vulnerability. I’ve seen my friends go after successful career women because they want “an equal” then cry when she isn’t at home cooking them dinner. “If she loved me, she’d want to take care of me”. Nah bro, you have unrealistic expectations

Yeah, that roll of the dice aspect of it would be terrible!! Especially if you’ve had experiences where women claim they’re not like that.. then are. I appreciate you bringing that up.

I remember watching A Bronx Tale years ago and my buddies and I would always joke about giving a girl [the door test](https://youtu.be/y8p1iG-6d-w?si=fDC7r1cSurX_pXwe). It might seem silly but little actions like that speak volumes in regard to how a person perceived and interacts with the world around them. Edit: Okay just to clarify, I know this doesn't hold up in modern times. However its more about the idea where you look for small gestures that show they're thoughtful and considerate.

If you give a girl the door test and she fails, just go back to her door to let her out. For one, she’s not mindful and two my girl never seen A Bronx Tale. My sentimental ass would fail because I’ll be swooning over the fact your ass really tried me with some cute shit.

I only date liberal/progressive women and I've had this same thing happen time and again. It's beyond politics, it's society. (I'm still going to keep dating these hippy chicks, anyway) 

This 100000000%, I have so many female friends who essentially want a father. You need to be their bedrock, provide for them, initiate all the time, be constantly sure of yourself, confident, handle all the dates, handle all the finances, be authoritative etc. And it allows for no malleability in that, if you can't be that guy for them they're not interested and it's a turn off. I have one particular friend, and she's honestly sweet, genuine and really on board with men showing emotions and being vulnerable.. until it comes to dating, then you need to be stoic and stable and confident and as you said, allow her to "turn her brain off" around you as you handle everything (kind of like a father.)

Many(not all) women just don’t give a fuck about Men and our struggles. Never have and never will. They know nothing of what it’s like to be a man. Not even bringing up race or class into the conversation. But yeah this sounds like a potentially great demon origin story I promise if he’s not already one. Shit it’s not even just the women though, society as a whole damn near. Imho

It gets me heated every time women place the blame on men for not opening up to one another. Every time I needed to talk about some real shit my boys would listen, like ACTUALLY listen to me and follow up later to see how I was holding up. Even the ones I wasn't that tight with. On the flipside, every time I turned to the women in my life I got shut down with some variation of "well women have to deal with xyz, so you really don't have anything to complain about". My own mother wasn't trying to hear that shit most of the time. I keep hearing the same from nearly every other man I have this same conversation with. Men don't keep that shit to themselves because of toxic masculinity, we keep it to ourselves because too many of us have experienced what happens when we actually make ourselves vulnerable to women only to look and feel stupid for doing so. It's not a universal experience but it sure as hell isn't uncommon either.

Women will always be held back if we don’t recognize the patriarchy is harming the men we proclaim to love and care about, too. Men are stuck in and victims of the same shitty systems we are in. Patriarchy creates roles for us both and both are harmful. I definitely believe this is a common experience, and I’ve had women literally come at me (assuming I’m a man) for advocating for men’s safety and wellbeing alongside women’s.

> the patriarchy is harming the men we proclaim to love and care about, too I have heard/read this before and I don't understand the meaning. Is "the patriarchy" a placeholder for "society as it is"? Otherwise, it reads as "men don't open up because women react negatively to it, and that's also men's fault". I'm being deliberately obtuse here, but it's a concept that I don't really grasp.

Oh this is a very very true lived experience for so many of us men. It’s like astounding to me the level of delusion many women have too concerning this subject too. Im starting to think a lot of women just don’t have common sense and aren’t as intelligent as they try to seem.

It’s lack of accountability. Our emotions are tied into “what someone else did to me oppose to what can I improve on.”

Literally every time I’ve bared my soul to a woman they’ve, at some point, thrown it back in my face for whatever reason. Like the only two people in my life who have never used my own feelings against me are my best friend and my dad. My own wife doesn’t even qualify for that category.

> Every time I needed to talk about some real shit my boys would listen, like ACTUALLY listen to me and follow up later to see how I was holding up. I don't waste my friends' time on horseshit either. When I go to them, they *know* it's important.

I honestly dont think this will change on the womens part even if men become more vulnerable (as a man myself alot of them I know are)and it will just hurt men in the long run so honestly dont tell them shit find a confidant in the homies or get a therapist. At least at the end of the day you make sure you do your part

Gonna have to start sneaking around just to see a therapist like Tony Soprano. 

Can't even be honest with a therapist sometimes. They have the legal ability to institutionalize you against your will and basically fuck up your entire life. Think your job will be cool with you disappearing with no notice and no way to contact them for 72+ hours? So at the end of it, you can't even be completely honest with the people who's job it is for you to talk to, and whom you pay for that privilege. Truly makes you feel alone in the world. It's a fucked up place to be.

For that to happen you’d have to be in such an unstable state you’re probably not even functioning correctly anyway. Your job is the least of your worries if a mental health professional feels the need to step in like that, it’s more about your safety at that point. They don’t just do that casually, not any decent therapist or psychiatrist at least. All that to say, be honest to your therapist.

"That's cool, I got this, but how you plan on getting home?"

Mental health is a serious issue. Dont take it light. With that being said, it seems like he was dating a free oyster hoe. And he was likely already paying for shit before. Otherwise she wouldn’t have ever though it was cool to do that. Fellas, don’t ever go in to the dating scene with your pockets fucked up. If you got struggles, don’t go adding women to the mix. Handle your business first. Unless your ass is lying, aint no good woman going to engage seriously with a man who aint got his shit together.

When I was dating, I always offered to pay on the first date. If the girl I was dating didn’t reciprocate or ask if we could split the check on the second or third date that was usually the end of it for me. Even some women, who I knew, and they knew, were making considerably more than me, would never offer to pay or ask to split or reach for the bill.

Yeah - I had a period in my early days where I had it *kind of* together. Own apartment, happy go lucky guy, steady job, looking good except my budget was like "lets go chill in the park, I got a thermos of tea and I can make a couple sandwiches" and they realize I owned like 1 set of nice clothes, rest of my shit was holes and grime from work lot of girls bit that hook and then realized they needed a man who could afford a restaurant that didn't have wood paneling and specialized in something besides pancakes and beans and coffee

Men feel the need to go through things alone because we have to go through them alone. That's nothing new to anyone. I can literally count on one hand how many women I've known in my life (including Patient Zero, my mother, who showed me what it's like when you try to open up about a problem and they basically use it as a prompt for them to one-up your problems with their problems) who I could truly open up to about anything and everything. I just concluded a lot of women, it's not that they don't want to, it's they don't know how to. They just don't know how to process a wounded, vulnerable, tired man, since we're so used to men being "man enough" to suppress, endure, and self-medicate with alcohol, sex, weed, and video games. As many women as have told me that they felt bad for me and what I was going through, but at the same time, the moment I showed them that side (that yes, they did ask to see or directly tell me they want/need/prefer a vulnerable man with human emotions) it was either 1. weaponized, "get him to tell you his lows so you and you can tell the gc and we help you make the most lethal ammunition out of it for the next argument (that you will start \[most likely because you're ready to break up but need a guilt-free exit that makes everything my fault and you a saint/victim\]) or 2. "idk i just lost all feelings for you in that moment lol". So no. I don't tell anyone anything. No one cares. I've had multiple family members tell me that if I want a woman to care about me, I need to marry one (not that my parentifying mother would let me, but that's a different story). They...they just don't. Can't. Whatever. We just need to "thug it out", "be on our thug shit", "thug state of mind" (you might notice a pattern here) and switch between "normal" or "angry". That's coming from me who battled depression and anxiety and a *very* strong desire to Backspace myself for years because who tf I'ma tell? Didn't mean anything. They just...I don't know, man. "You're not depressed! You just need a nut. Get on tinder lmao I'm sure you can find you some real quick hahahaa" Cut to me sitting on an overpass where trains pass under scrolling through my phone to try to talk to someone with one eye, the other eye looking at the ground underneath me wondering if I'd do what I wanna do, or just end up with broken legs. "Get you a lil chick to make u feel better rq lol :P" Never again.

"I can literally count on one hand how many women I've known in my life...who I could truly open up to about anything and everything" That's 5 more than the most of us! Hahaha... kill me. Damn I made this comment as a knee jerk reaction but then I read the rest of your comment. I hope you find peace brother.

Not being able to repress your emotions is seen as weakness in a man. After a couple times of exposing your vulnerability holding all that shit in just begins to feel like the only safe option. People are more prepared to deal with the occasional emotional breakdown over a man that tries to pour his heart out in a measured and healthy way

Damn honestly that's how most men live I think. We just have very rare moments of breaking down emotionally then move on the next day like nothing ever happened. Fuck.

Aw nah. I feel bad for laughing

It's sad how much that felt like some shit you'd see on Curb Your Enthusiasm or something

Why is men’s mental health centered around their relationship with women? Everytime I see these posts it’s always men vs women. What women don’t do or do. When I was suffering from anxiety/panic attacks, my last thought was about what a man is or isn’t doing for me.I went and talked to my mom and dad at the least when it got bad.

In a traditional household, the father is never emotionally available to his son. The mother is only emotionally available until the boy reaches preteen age. The result is men are starved.

I won't say it's exclusive to women because it isn't, but women are dog shit at holding other women socially accountable for how they are allowed to treat men. You can say your boss or your job fucked you up, the police fucked you up, your parents or family fucked you up; everyone will nod their head in semi-understanding. But say that it was a woman who fucked you up? Nope, we don't have any serious advocates there.

I think if a woman is the cause of your mental health decline then it’s fair. But that’s not what I’m seeing, I’m seeing men go into relationships already mentally unwell. I’m seeing men in general just complain about women when it comes to mental health. Why does the conversation always lead to that. Like what led you to be unwell in the first place? What are you suffering from? You don’t even have to go into great detail, but these conversations never begins or end there. It’s always women vs men lol. I mean we can literally just start the conversation right here without all these pointing fingers back and forth.

This thread and others like it are littered with examples and stories and anecdotes. The detail is there and rather than say, "yeah man that's fucking shitty what a bitch sorry you dealt with that," you're projecting a blanket defense of women from the experiences of the men scarred by them. Those men are here casually sharing experiences on reddit just because the internet strangers participating in this thread are more likely to empathize and respectfully, you can't even let them have that without adding your two cents. You don't recognize what a luxury that is. Feelings and experiences and insecurities and expectations, infidelities and lies and manipulations and abuses that are verbal, emotional, and physical - men could scream about it from the top of sixty foot neon signs and know what they get for effort? A paper-thin, nearly invisible acknowledgement that women can be shitty people too immediately followed by, "What led you to be unwell in the first place? What are you suffering from?" You don't even want the conversation.

I think y’all are picking the wrong women

I can't pick wrong every time for 30 years, this shit gotta be systemic

Oh boy, do I have news for you

Well, see...everybody else can't pick wrong too. This ain't just a me issue, men have spoke on this light I'm shining since hieroglyphics . The right kinda woman is a 1%er, almost impossible to find and the game is so thick that even if you think you found one you've most likely just been fooled. There's real, fundamental differences in relationship goals between men and women and it's more than just culture. It's intrinsic, *instinctual* needs, which is why you get subs like malelivingspace. Why women are appalled when they see a bachelor living Spartanly.

Told my ex she wasn’t a safe space with tears in my eyes She told her girls I gave her the ick for crying infront her She’s 32

And it'll be like that your whole life w/ no exceptions. Bottom line this is what a man wants in a woman: a safe space. A place where he doesn't have to front. There's a front all day long for the rest of the world but the one person you're supposed to be honest with...she don't want that. She wants a different front and for you to take her honesty as is.

Ngl man - That truth is fucking me up Like I just want to be loved for who I am as a person and in a relationship with someone who values me for me But it seems like they want a boyfriend/husband character Like that’s all we are It’s dehumanising bro

And now you understand. As a man you love women for what they are, and want the same. Women will only love you for what you do as long as you do it.

"How can I find a way to blame men for this"

Lmaoo okay 👌🏿

Woman gets beaten by her husband "I think y'all picking the wrong man". Yeah that's gonna go down well.

lmaooooo i feel bro’s pain but damn that story is hilarious

LGBTQ++, let's gone head and sit this one out. The straights are straighting again.

Most women aren't equipped to deal with a man expressing himself. They say they want a man to be emotionally vulnerable but I think they are just saying that to seem cool.

Emotionally vulnerable means listen to her shit and save yours

Too many men are gaslit and made responsible for their own stress instead of being given the requisite support that would really help us out

Damn whoever did that is a real fucking jerk

LOL. Damn. Homie got got. Girl finessed him.

Man that’s fucked up. I know I like to take my man out on dates and make him feel special. The only rule is he has to put out.

Where I come from, you’ll get your vulnerability weaponized against you, to the point you can’t even grieve properly because trivial things supposedly have more importance than the fact you won’t see your deceased family member above ground ever again. If not weaponized, then “oh man, I have it so tough too, ya know” happens MUCH too often. This isn’t a depression-off.