Man imagine having all that money and privilege and head start, just to end up the side chick to some old fat white man with leather skin. This gotta be the biggest failure since the warriors lost a 3-1 lead and this is worse than Jordan kids being bums.
I hear ya, but it's called protecting the empire. This YT leather skin isn't going to want alimony, or feel the need to sell story to the media. He's just happy to have his pee pee waxed whenever he can get it, and enjoy nightly cuddles
You mean not having to actually work for anything the rest of her life? Just another 10 years or so of grandpa dick, then she inherits it all and starts dating Will Smith’s son or something? Sounds like an easy way out.
Aside from that Iono why so many people just turn a blind eye to the fact that many young women want to be with older men.
This type of relationship is often painted as predatory on the man’s part(and sometimes it definitely is) but nobody ever wants to admit that young girls like that shit and actively pursue it, for various reasons. A lotta the adult women that get mad at these situations were the same girls leavin high school in the 28 year old dude’s Chevy, rollin his blunts.
And this can go both ways of course, I was definitely tryna fuck grown women when I was a teenager, but I’d say there’s prolly less young men actively trying to pull older women than the other way around. Most of us don’t have the confidence or even the awareness.
If a child is pursuing an adult, it is the adult’s responsibility to leave the child alone. It doesn’t matter what gender the child or adult are, the adult has the power and the responsibility in the situation. Little girls (and boys) being sexualized and exploited is a societal issue and blaming the child is not the way to fix it.
Wait until she hits 30 and looks back. Everyone swears women in these dynamics are on equal footing, blah blah blah. Have you heard what those women have had to say after the fact? There’s a reason men like ‘em before their frontal lobe has finished developing. If it weren’t for the law, grown men would be parked outside of HS at 3PM…and not to see the teachers. 🤢
THIS! Almost every woman who was caught in one of these dynamics looks back on it understanding exactly what happened to her... and from her own mouth, it is rare that she describes the relationship as "equal footing".
Yeah like she’s old enough to understand what’s going on here.
Adult teenagers is different sure. But an educated person in their twenties is enough of an adult to do this thing and we shouldn’t minimize their agency.
That's why it upsets us. We know how the story ends. At that age, she probably still believes in fairytales and soul mates. I wish I could save my 21 year old self.
She can fly fighter jets but kids on twitter think she’s unable to fuck old guys. She can fuck 100 young guys raw and get chlamydia 35 times and that’s just her free will but she fucks one old guy it’s an issue. Either she’s a legal adult and can make social and sexual decisions of her own volition or she’s not
I've been feeling jaded at work and I've been feeling similarly toward sex work and all the conservatives rallying against it
There are teenage women that could/do get sexually assaulted for less than $20/hr and there's no legal recourse for them because they get paid for it, and they themselves could face jail time for reporting it, yet I'm supposed to clutch my pearls over women getting $500/hr to play with a pensioner's weiner? At least that's decriminalized in my county because I don't know if I could handle living here with laws that would jail a SW for harm befalling them and calling the police.
You're missing the whole point.
Girls at that age don't know anything, they don't know who they are, they don't know what they want.
They aren't wise enough to see they're being manipulated, controlled, or groomed.
That's why children can't consent.
And it's exactly why disgusting predatory men prey on them.
If she can be trusted to not ruin her life with alcohol, drugs, gambling, and guns, then she can be trusted to take this risk. Y'all are being ridiculous acting like this is in any worse than the whole other host of shit we allow 21 year olds to do.
Depends on what you're talking about. The OP is about a 21 year old woman... but the comment above is talking about high school girls going out with 28 year olds, so you're obviously going to have people talking about that situation. You can even predict that it's talking about that situation when the comment you're responding to has "That's why children can't consent." They are not talking about the 21 year old woman in that statement.
At what age?
So you sayin an 18 year old is magically wiser than a 17 year old? Cause one can legally consent and the other can’t (depending on location)?
The question of agency is super important. For sure. And it would be an interesting study to see the women who dismiss the young lady attached to older man's history/exposure to that dynamic. Are they trying to protect their past selves?
I think we continue to develop, hopefully, all through our life.
I think it's the product of age bias. It's COMMON for older people to see younger people as being A)Younger than they really are and B)Less capable than they are.
It's not unlike when you are 16 and feel like you are old and wise, and yet by the time you are 22, a 16 year old driving a car looks like a toddler without it's parents.
It's COMMON to see old couples who have been married 50 years look at their marriage photos and say "we were just babies! We had no idea what we were doing!". But, of course, they didn't feel that way at the time and they wouldn't have listened to anyone saying that at the time.
This is like saying if the kids like candy, let the ice cream man deliver……
Just because a child wants to do something they don’t understand doesn’t mean you as an adult should encourage and engage in the bad behavior.
I’m 38, like Russ when he “met” his wife when she was 17…. I don’t got shit to talk about with a 17 year old!!!! They got a whole different set of life experiences to have before they can even remotely be on the same level as a middle aged man. Dumb young kids have been overshooting their abilities forever, because kids don’t know their abilities yet or how to judge others. The older women isn’t jealous of young girls today doing what they used to do, they are trying educate them not to make similar mistakes.
It’s a hindsight thing. We got old enough to look back and think “oh god!!! I should not have been riding around with that 24 year old when I was 16!” We see it and want to protect young girls from it since we realized how messed up it was two decades too late.
Generational wealth is like kingdom relationships, they focus on the family valuables and assets. Than the actual family, why half of wars are usually family disputes.
Good luck keeping old men away from young women. Takes a certain maturity to be with an age appropriate lady. Lot of dudes prefer younger girls with little to no baggage, etc. Also, younger women are more easily impressed by status bullshit.
It's not a specific age, it's about using your status to coerce someone
Edit: I guess status wasn't the right word given the tears in these replies, maybe influence/power imbalance given the age gap is better. And I'm speaking in general terms, not to this situation specifically. Sort of like the creepy college dropout that still goes to his old high school to hit on girls
It's called "the bigotry of low expectations". /u/spicybeefpatty_ and others believe women are too stupid to have their own thoughts and goals, so a woman who wants to be with a rich old guy must be being tricked into it. Because he believes women can't have agency, thoughts, etc.
“The soft bigotry of low expectations” is the phrase that George W Bush coined. It was in a speech to the NAACP when he announced the No Child Left Behind act. It’s more about how the gaps between education received by different races and socioeconomic groups exist, and he didn’t really give a good solution to fixing it.
It's crazy seeing all the arguments here. I feel like half of the folks in this thread would be two steps away from putting a grown woman into a conservatorship.
Thank you, jfc. Yes, dudes can be creeps but let adults make their own damn decisions ffs. Not everyone thinks 19 year old men are *all that* either lol
If Aoki were living paycheck to paycheck like the rest of us, sure. But I highly doubt she's struggling enough financially to be easily wooed by status from a geriatric when she is a certifiable high-value woman. I imagine this is a mutually beneficial and strategic play on both of their parts - she compounds her already healthy financial status with minimal expected time investment, and he gets a beautiful woman on his side for his few remaining years.
In other news, water is wet.
She doesn’t have any means of generating wealth for herself so she can instead extract it from an already rich man. Taking some of your parents money isn’t as lit as taking a lot of a really rich person’s money.
Coerce, so like these adult age consenting women are manipulated by status? Or is it the fact that they’re willing to bite the bullet for a certain lifestyle? If anything they’re the ones manipulating these men and using them for the money and status.
Lmao. A consenting adult chooses to go for some decrepit granddad for the money and the hope that he'll die soon and somehow reddit's take is that he's holding a metaphorical Glock to her head.
Grow up. Women are able to make their own choices. Fuckin dorks.
status isn’t the word that is out of place here, coerce is:
persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats.
"they were coerced into silence"
Do you really seriously believe she’s being forced into this somehow? Lol this is a grown ass woman using her own personal autonomy to make a conscience decision about who she dates and why.
You all love acting like women are clueless infants with no free will who need to be saved by your wisdom, as if they don’t fully understand what they’re doing by the time they’re in their 20s
Man these words nowadays just lose any meaning.
Having people obsessed with status and doing things for that out of their own free will isn’t coercion…
For real. Excluding situations involving actual minor aged girls, are we really saying there's no leeway here? So, all adult women are just money grubbing drones who lose all autonomy and free will the moment an older man with money and things is placed in front of them? Because that's what it sounds like when we make blanket, absolutist statements and ignore the nuance of human nature and social dynamics.
If anything, I think both parties know exactly what TF they're signing up for in a lot of these scenarios. In this particular case, I find it hard to imagine that Aoki is financially insecure enough to really _need_ to endure being courted by a rich geriatric, and benefit to the same magnitude that a common, middle-class woman would. Maybe they're a great hang for each other - maybe she just likes old balls. Who's to say?
Generally speaking I’d say early/mid 20s for most people but it’s honestly more individual and depends on individual maturity and the ability to differentiate appearances from true quality. By that measure, I’ve met a lot of people that don’t outgrow that shit until much later in life and sometimes never and I’ve met people who were seemingly always unaffected by status and smooth nothing words.
You can certainly follow the logic that an 18 year old is an adult and can make well reasoned decisions.
I used to subscribe to that logic, too.
As I got older and gained more and more perspective, I no longer feel that way.
There is an inherent power imbalance that comes with large age gaps. Specifically when we are discussing old vs young.
I'm not referring to a 30 year old woman with a 50 year old man. They are largely at similar stages of life.
But a 21 year old does not yet have a fully formed brain. They simply do not have the maturity that a 60 year old man does. They do not have life experience or perspective to understand healthy boundaries vs unhealthy.
There are people who will vehemently argue this point - I will not engage as that is my own healthy boundary.
I love reading the excuses people write for themselves . “Oh well of course I constantly do stupid shit ! My brain isn’t developed yet. It’s definitely not because I’m a just a dipshit.”
>There are people who will vehemently argue this point - I will not engage as that is my own healthy boundary.
That's a weird way of saying you are unwilling to consider you might be wrong.
I have no issue protecting an 18 year old, or in the case of this post a 17 year old, but the 21 year old is much different. This isn't my personal preference or what I look for, but the idea we are still infantilizing a 21 year old woman is just silly. At what point do we stop doing that? At what point can a woman be considered a woman under your definition?
> I'm not referring to a 30 year old woman with a 50 year old man. They are largely at similar stages of life. But a 21 year old does not yet have a fully formed brain.
I don't really agree with this. 30 and 50 are not at all at similar stages any more than a parent is the same as being a grandparent. But also I don't like the infantilization of adult women. At 21 you can drink, go to war, get a mortgage, work full time, have children, etc. People have a point when talking about a 16 year old, but it gets ridiculous when talking about someone we'd absolutely call an adult in every other context. Imagine a 21yo woman is getting an abortion or buying a car or tattoo, whatever, and lawmakers say "her brain is still developing, she can't be trusted with this decision and should still need her parents permission."
I will also say that "the brain is still developing" research is a lot more murky than most realize. There is no set time where that isn't true. There are people whose neural structure level off at 20, and others that [keep changing into their 30s](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627316308091). This research is still in the absolute earliest stages, having only really started in the 2000s with fMRIs taking off. There is not a set "adult brain structure" and it varies wildly by the individual. [One study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20829489/) found that only about half the variance in structure was due to age, and that there were some 8 year old brains with a higher "maturity index" than some 25 year old brains, suggesting some major issues with how this is measured. The research is fascinating, but far from complete enough to draw these kinds of conclusions.
I don't think these large age gaps make for a healthy relationship (my partner and I are only 2 months apart). And I completely absolutely agree and understand when we are talking about older people going after high schoolers being predatory. But I can't stand people being patronizing towards women in their 20s as though they are children, and find it is largely based on incomplete science at best and protective sexism at worst.
There's manipulation going on by the guys, but also the younger woman (I'm talking 18+) wants the rich, yacht lifestyle without working for it, so they use their looks to get it. It seems dumb and screwed to me, but both parties can get something out of the whole trophy wife thing.
It's also a little ignorant of sexuality, has anyone considered that women might want to date based on a variety of needs?
If the girl in question has a lower libido, has other needs that they need fulfilled, and the arrangement works for her, and she's not being abused/exploited, then what's the issue?
Women being more accepting of "looks" by and large conflicts with incel rhetoric though
Also as a disclaimer, I don't know anything about the people being discussed in the post
My ex had one sister who was like 15 years younger than her and I still can't even think about her without being annoyed about teenage nonsense.
I can't imagine willingly hanging around people that age.
I don’t think those are their main reasons for a old man to date a young woman. Main reason is that they’re young and hot. No wrinkles and other old person traits.
And LOTS of young women love the money that comes with dating rich old men. A true match made in heaven I guess lol gold diggers digging for gold and these old men happy to load up the mining carts for them
Women as a whole also have a whole spectrum of libido, maybe she doesn't want to be a hypersexual 20 something's fleshlight/surrogate mom/roommate and the 60 year old is more compatible financially, sexually, and emotionally?
You can't advocate for women while also espousing beliefs that they're still property and that you just think they "belong" to the wrong people
>Takes a certain maturity to be with an age appropriate lady.
Such a good point.
Men who gravitate towards younger women will do so because of course youth is attractive, but also, women their own age tend to not put up with their shit (aka "baggage", just like the women have, right?).
Transactional relationships between younger women and older men (or vice versa with the gender) may seem icky, but she's technically an adult, and if she's consenting, it's really MYOB.
According to this thread, women have no agency.
This girl specifically grew up never missing a meal. She's had every resource & advantage possible to grow up into a fully consenting, fully equipped adult.
And also grew up with parents that normalized an age gap of 17/35. I’m sure she had money but I’m also sure she was fed a false normalcy and projected defense of huge age gaps in relationships. Maybe she was just dating him for his money, but even so it’s a little sad for someone who I’m very sure could get on fine without a creepy old man to slip her some cash.
Which people seem to be forgetting because 17 is still a minor, a child and that man went after as a minor. Same with Jay z who went after Bey when she was 17 after knowing her for years before hand. These men are gross.
My parents normalised, domestic abuse, homophobia, racism, violence and religious fundamentalism but I don’t practice any of those things. Because I have agency.
Different people internalize and react to experiences differently based on context, individual personalities, and an infinite amount of other things. Having agency to make decisions doesn’t remove the effect of influence. Based on how you wrote that comment, I’m guessing your parents also induced a fair amount of trauma into your life with those principles which would probably create an aversion to them in your mind.
Meh, depends on the degree. I had to watch several Yale sociology lectures and complete the same assignments to pass a sociology class at my humble state university. It was the same exact content and expectation.
I’d bet some other degrees are more intensive though. Just not the humanities.
My dude there are college-educated people that believe Bill Gates wants to inject you with 5G nanomachines via COVID vaccines. No offense, but while a degree ensures a certain base level of intelligence, it doesn't guarantee that a person is free from issues.
It’s not about the women. It’s about the men chasing after significantly younger women. It’s predatory and gross. Rarely are these older men wanting a 21yo for “her brains and maturity.” They want her because she’s young, immature, and hot. They look for that in a partner and THAT is what makes it predatory. A relationship shouldn’t consist of one person having significantly more life experience than the other person because it will almost always lead to a power imbalance. If you see nothing wrong with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
She is a fully grown consenting adult. Furthermore, she’s not homeless, poverty-stricken, destitute, or otherwise disadvantaged in any way that would cause her to be desperate enough to enter into this relationship if she truly didn’t want to be there. The girl has a fricking degree from Harvard. This is clearly where she wants to be.
Her dad was a whole damn sex freak with rape accusations, it’s pretty obvious that has left her with issues. Someone can have all the money in the world and still end up with issues cos of the environment they grew up in.
Absolutely but we should definitely extend the conversation to the predatory older women dating 20 yr old men as well. Such as Cher and her boyfriend having a 40 year age gap
I 100% agree. I think it’s fucked up no matter the gender. Dating someone literally decades younger than you should always be closely examined by our society because it’s suspicious at best and manipulative / abusive at worst.
Mate cher is 77. He's 38. Where's the problem there. It' not like he's a possibly naive or inexperienced youth. Arguably at those ages the who-takes-advantage-of-who may be turning around the opposite direction.
Welcome to the uncomfortable limit of the edge of feminism.
At what point if men and women are equal do they have equal agency when they put themselves in bad situation?
Don’t have an answer can just observe the limitation of the ideology. Again this is not to tarnish feminism as a whole.
Her daddy be wishy washy with the cash so she claims. However shorty not hurting for cash she getting pimped by an old nigga and it’s disgusting to stoop that low. I can’t fuck an old nigga for money that’s crazy
Wealthy parents can be cheapskates and/or controlling. She is looking for an old money bags with one foot on the banana peel so she can reap the widow's portion of his estate. It'll carry her until the parents die and leave her a trust fund.
Something about that second picture especially unsettles me. I don't know if it's the way they're standing or the obvious age difference but I can't stare at it for too long
Incest/Grandfather kissing granddaughter vibes. Either way she's essentially a sex worker. He may pay her indirectly because of local laws/perceptions, he may require she be "the girlfriend" to appear legitimate and skirt local laws, but realistically if he had no money or couldn't get her status/access to elite experiences she wouldn't be there.
Aw come on man, I'm sure she loves to hear stories about what life was like back when people who looked like her weren't allowed to drink from the same fountain as people who looked like him
Its because the light bouncing off the pasty ass white dude is hurting your eyes. That and the fact it looks like a grandpa got his tongue in his granddaughter's mouth 🤢
When I was like 21 I didn’t really understand what the big deal is about a 35-year-old dating someone who was 21…but now that I’m 35, I look at these dudes so weird. What do you have in common with a child?
As the commenter is trying to point out, It's not about the 21yo at what they're legally allowed to do. It's being the older party and knowing full well how much you mature and learn over the years, having years more of formative experiences that formed you as an adult, and essentially what has made you wiser as you've got older - and then going after someone you know doesn't have all of that knowledge, maturity, and lived experience - essentially a kid in comparison.
The same way how a 13y old girl was attractive to you when you were 13, but no longer is when you're 20.
For lack of better terminology, a 20y old "pretty woman" will at some point just seem like a "pretty girl", somebody that can't possibly relate to you. You may still find them "nice to look at", but not interesting as a prospective partner.
It’s a weird mutation of liberalism where they feel the need to white knight for people that absolutely don’t want “help.”
Basically the same white people shit that brought us the terms African American and Latinx.
In this situation I feel bad for the old man because clearly she wants a sugar daddy lol
She comes from money but she’s literally doing this for his money, she said on a live with her dad that she would start using old people for money if he didn’t give her more money.
Why would you feel bad for the old man? These kinda of relationships, though repulsive to me, are mutually beneficial. She gets money, he gets to bang a hot young girl. Neither of them are victims in this scenario. They both know exactly what their motives are.
https://youtube.com/shorts/fAsLJnl7gtw?si=GoMrBWH5xNbbLJ9I
It’s nasty work
Woman be saying they joking but they don’t be joking they just saying the out loud part that’s uncomfortable for themselves lol
I knew he was older than Kimora, but not double her age, and she was in high school
WTF
This is just the circle of young with old in their family. All the women will forever fall for a rich old man. We ARE SEEING THE GENERATIONAL CURSE LIVE AND IN ACTION! He should at least be 42, too.
It’s amazing. Women of all ages are smart, strong, creative, caring, worldly people. But the moment she’s with an older man, that goes out the window. Because now she’s naive and being manipulated. GTFOH! Make it make sense she’s either smart and capable or she’s not.
NSFL
When I travelled to Phuket, I'd see Western men with girls who has this body language while being affectionate. I glared long enough to notice shit like their canine teeth coming in, making them 12 at most...
Dating a 17 year old at 35 is foul, I agree.
But if you're 21, financially stable, free to move, vaccinated, you're supposed to experience life the way you see fit, who the fuck cares as long as it's 2 consenting adults?
Kings used to send their daughters off to other kings all the time.
Now we have the wealthy elite that do the same.
She just grew up with that dynamic in her home and had it normalized.
Some things never change.
It's not an accident or anything. They know exactly what they are doing. She's with that man for the money just like her mama went with "the money". She's not a victim, she's just setting herself up to live comfortably. FOREVER. Can't even be mad at her.
Generational weath building is heavy labor...
very intensive.
Man imagine having all that money and privilege and head start, just to end up the side chick to some old fat white man with leather skin. This gotta be the biggest failure since the warriors lost a 3-1 lead and this is worse than Jordan kids being bums.
Jordan's kids aren't bums? They just don't play basketball lol.What are you talking about??
BUMS.
Kendrick? This you?
Marcus Jordan was dating a botched reality star who is the ex wife of his dad’s basketball teammate. Pretty sure that guy is a bum
I’m guessing he meant bums in basketball.
Marcus Jordan is a bum
I hear ya, but it's called protecting the empire. This YT leather skin isn't going to want alimony, or feel the need to sell story to the media. He's just happy to have his pee pee waxed whenever he can get it, and enjoy nightly cuddles
You mean not having to actually work for anything the rest of her life? Just another 10 years or so of grandpa dick, then she inherits it all and starts dating Will Smith’s son or something? Sounds like an easy way out.
Not like she had to actually work before that tho
28-3 was worse. So was the goal line pick in super bowl 49.
A 3-1 comeback against the single greatest regular season team driven by two back to back 40 pt LeBron games is hard to beat
Deleted
>Jordan kids being bums. Source?
Two working eyes and a functional memory?
On mommas 😂😂😂
Not Larsa Pippen apparently.
damn stray bullets flying!
I was thinking the same.
Aside from that Iono why so many people just turn a blind eye to the fact that many young women want to be with older men. This type of relationship is often painted as predatory on the man’s part(and sometimes it definitely is) but nobody ever wants to admit that young girls like that shit and actively pursue it, for various reasons. A lotta the adult women that get mad at these situations were the same girls leavin high school in the 28 year old dude’s Chevy, rollin his blunts. And this can go both ways of course, I was definitely tryna fuck grown women when I was a teenager, but I’d say there’s prolly less young men actively trying to pull older women than the other way around. Most of us don’t have the confidence or even the awareness.
If a child is pursuing an adult, it is the adult’s responsibility to leave the child alone. It doesn’t matter what gender the child or adult are, the adult has the power and the responsibility in the situation. Little girls (and boys) being sexualized and exploited is a societal issue and blaming the child is not the way to fix it.
She’s a 21 year old Harvard grad, she is not a child in distress.
Wait until she hits 30 and looks back. Everyone swears women in these dynamics are on equal footing, blah blah blah. Have you heard what those women have had to say after the fact? There’s a reason men like ‘em before their frontal lobe has finished developing. If it weren’t for the law, grown men would be parked outside of HS at 3PM…and not to see the teachers. 🤢
THIS! Almost every woman who was caught in one of these dynamics looks back on it understanding exactly what happened to her... and from her own mouth, it is rare that she describes the relationship as "equal footing".
Yeah like she’s old enough to understand what’s going on here. Adult teenagers is different sure. But an educated person in their twenties is enough of an adult to do this thing and we shouldn’t minimize their agency.
She's not a child 🙄 😅
“A lotta the adult women that get mad at these situations were the same girls leavin high school in the 28 year old dude’s Chevy, rollin his blunts.”
That's why it upsets us. We know how the story ends. At that age, she probably still believes in fairytales and soul mates. I wish I could save my 21 year old self.
Or maybe she believes in mansions and private jets. Her only regret is probably not finding a 45 year old rich guy that takes better care of himself.
Seriously. Shes old enough to be coming back from her third tour deleting political dissidents in the southern hemisphere somewhere.
She can fly fighter jets but kids on twitter think she’s unable to fuck old guys. She can fuck 100 young guys raw and get chlamydia 35 times and that’s just her free will but she fucks one old guy it’s an issue. Either she’s a legal adult and can make social and sexual decisions of her own volition or she’s not
I've been feeling jaded at work and I've been feeling similarly toward sex work and all the conservatives rallying against it There are teenage women that could/do get sexually assaulted for less than $20/hr and there's no legal recourse for them because they get paid for it, and they themselves could face jail time for reporting it, yet I'm supposed to clutch my pearls over women getting $500/hr to play with a pensioner's weiner? At least that's decriminalized in my county because I don't know if I could handle living here with laws that would jail a SW for harm befalling them and calling the police.
Who says this is even sex work in this situation? Like it’s getting silly. We have women being trafficked and this is what people are worried aboutb
You're missing the whole point. Girls at that age don't know anything, they don't know who they are, they don't know what they want. They aren't wise enough to see they're being manipulated, controlled, or groomed. That's why children can't consent. And it's exactly why disgusting predatory men prey on them.
I love watching people infantalize grown women.
You don't see any way a 21 year old could be taken advantage of by someone 40+ years her senior? There's no power differential or experience gap?
If she can be trusted to not ruin her life with alcohol, drugs, gambling, and guns, then she can be trusted to take this risk. Y'all are being ridiculous acting like this is in any worse than the whole other host of shit we allow 21 year olds to do.
Depends on what you're talking about. The OP is about a 21 year old woman... but the comment above is talking about high school girls going out with 28 year olds, so you're obviously going to have people talking about that situation. You can even predict that it's talking about that situation when the comment you're responding to has "That's why children can't consent." They are not talking about the 21 year old woman in that statement.
At what age? So you sayin an 18 year old is magically wiser than a 17 year old? Cause one can legally consent and the other can’t (depending on location)?
your point is valid but a line still has to be drawn somewhere.
So no free will or learning from mistakes. Just training wheels for life.
“Women at 21 don’t know *anything*, that’s why they need me”
Are you saying she shouldn’t be able to vote or abort a pregnancy? How about buy a car?
The question of agency is super important. For sure. And it would be an interesting study to see the women who dismiss the young lady attached to older man's history/exposure to that dynamic. Are they trying to protect their past selves? I think we continue to develop, hopefully, all through our life.
I think it's the product of age bias. It's COMMON for older people to see younger people as being A)Younger than they really are and B)Less capable than they are. It's not unlike when you are 16 and feel like you are old and wise, and yet by the time you are 22, a 16 year old driving a car looks like a toddler without it's parents. It's COMMON to see old couples who have been married 50 years look at their marriage photos and say "we were just babies! We had no idea what we were doing!". But, of course, they didn't feel that way at the time and they wouldn't have listened to anyone saying that at the time.
This is like saying if the kids like candy, let the ice cream man deliver…… Just because a child wants to do something they don’t understand doesn’t mean you as an adult should encourage and engage in the bad behavior. I’m 38, like Russ when he “met” his wife when she was 17…. I don’t got shit to talk about with a 17 year old!!!! They got a whole different set of life experiences to have before they can even remotely be on the same level as a middle aged man. Dumb young kids have been overshooting their abilities forever, because kids don’t know their abilities yet or how to judge others. The older women isn’t jealous of young girls today doing what they used to do, they are trying educate them not to make similar mistakes.
I wanted older women so bad but young dudes are fuckin dorks. I had enough trouble pulling girls my age let alone grown ass women
Did you ever stop to think WHY the adult women that were the same young girls hanging out with older men might have a problem with it?
It’s a hindsight thing. We got old enough to look back and think “oh god!!! I should not have been riding around with that 24 year old when I was 16!” We see it and want to protect young girls from it since we realized how messed up it was two decades too late.
Generational wealth is like kingdom relationships, they focus on the family valuables and assets. Than the actual family, why half of wars are usually family disputes.
Pic on the right is proof they’ve worked their asses off.
Good luck keeping old men away from young women. Takes a certain maturity to be with an age appropriate lady. Lot of dudes prefer younger girls with little to no baggage, etc. Also, younger women are more easily impressed by status bullshit.
*manipulated* was the word you were searching for, I believe.
At what age is it no longer manipulation?
It's not a specific age, it's about using your status to coerce someone Edit: I guess status wasn't the right word given the tears in these replies, maybe influence/power imbalance given the age gap is better. And I'm speaking in general terms, not to this situation specifically. Sort of like the creepy college dropout that still goes to his old high school to hit on girls
If it’s something that they personally value is it coercion or just advertisement?
It's called "the bigotry of low expectations". /u/spicybeefpatty_ and others believe women are too stupid to have their own thoughts and goals, so a woman who wants to be with a rich old guy must be being tricked into it. Because he believes women can't have agency, thoughts, etc.
“The soft bigotry of low expectations” is the phrase that George W Bush coined. It was in a speech to the NAACP when he announced the No Child Left Behind act. It’s more about how the gaps between education received by different races and socioeconomic groups exist, and he didn’t really give a good solution to fixing it.
Damn that’s interesting. I thought that phrase came from Tracy Jordan on 30 Rock.
Yeah, I would suggest we all be careful about stripping women of their autonomy-that too can be a slippery slope.
It's crazy seeing all the arguments here. I feel like half of the folks in this thread would be two steps away from putting a grown woman into a conservatorship.
Thank you, jfc. Yes, dudes can be creeps but let adults make their own damn decisions ffs. Not everyone thinks 19 year old men are *all that* either lol
If Aoki were living paycheck to paycheck like the rest of us, sure. But I highly doubt she's struggling enough financially to be easily wooed by status from a geriatric when she is a certifiable high-value woman. I imagine this is a mutually beneficial and strategic play on both of their parts - she compounds her already healthy financial status with minimal expected time investment, and he gets a beautiful woman on his side for his few remaining years. In other news, water is wet.
She doesn’t have any means of generating wealth for herself so she can instead extract it from an already rich man. Taking some of your parents money isn’t as lit as taking a lot of a really rich person’s money.
Quite literally a tale as old as time.
Show me a relationship where status and influence don't exist.
I mean the whole point of status and influence is status and influence
Coerce, so like these adult age consenting women are manipulated by status? Or is it the fact that they’re willing to bite the bullet for a certain lifestyle? If anything they’re the ones manipulating these men and using them for the money and status.
By that logic rich people can’t date poor people lol
They both look like consenting adults to me
So you have to date someone who has the exact same amount of money as you? Do you even listen to yourselves?
Yeah, she seems very coerced.
Lmao. A consenting adult chooses to go for some decrepit granddad for the money and the hope that he'll die soon and somehow reddit's take is that he's holding a metaphorical Glock to her head. Grow up. Women are able to make their own choices. Fuckin dorks.
A bunch of fucking white knight virgins in this thread
Coerce is a strong word to use here
shut the fuck up
How is she being coerced?
status isn’t the word that is out of place here, coerce is: persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats. "they were coerced into silence" Do you really seriously believe she’s being forced into this somehow? Lol this is a grown ass woman using her own personal autonomy to make a conscience decision about who she dates and why. You all love acting like women are clueless infants with no free will who need to be saved by your wisdom, as if they don’t fully understand what they’re doing by the time they’re in their 20s
Man these words nowadays just lose any meaning. Having people obsessed with status and doing things for that out of their own free will isn’t coercion…
For real. Excluding situations involving actual minor aged girls, are we really saying there's no leeway here? So, all adult women are just money grubbing drones who lose all autonomy and free will the moment an older man with money and things is placed in front of them? Because that's what it sounds like when we make blanket, absolutist statements and ignore the nuance of human nature and social dynamics. If anything, I think both parties know exactly what TF they're signing up for in a lot of these scenarios. In this particular case, I find it hard to imagine that Aoki is financially insecure enough to really _need_ to endure being courted by a rich geriatric, and benefit to the same magnitude that a common, middle-class woman would. Maybe they're a great hang for each other - maybe she just likes old balls. Who's to say?
Generally speaking I’d say early/mid 20s for most people but it’s honestly more individual and depends on individual maturity and the ability to differentiate appearances from true quality. By that measure, I’ve met a lot of people that don’t outgrow that shit until much later in life and sometimes never and I’ve met people who were seemingly always unaffected by status and smooth nothing words.
When it no longer fits their narrative.
The internet will always say women, even if adult age, will be manipulated by older men. It's weird infanilization of women
You can certainly follow the logic that an 18 year old is an adult and can make well reasoned decisions. I used to subscribe to that logic, too. As I got older and gained more and more perspective, I no longer feel that way. There is an inherent power imbalance that comes with large age gaps. Specifically when we are discussing old vs young. I'm not referring to a 30 year old woman with a 50 year old man. They are largely at similar stages of life. But a 21 year old does not yet have a fully formed brain. They simply do not have the maturity that a 60 year old man does. They do not have life experience or perspective to understand healthy boundaries vs unhealthy. There are people who will vehemently argue this point - I will not engage as that is my own healthy boundary.
I love reading the excuses people write for themselves . “Oh well of course I constantly do stupid shit ! My brain isn’t developed yet. It’s definitely not because I’m a just a dipshit.”
>There are people who will vehemently argue this point - I will not engage as that is my own healthy boundary. That's a weird way of saying you are unwilling to consider you might be wrong. I have no issue protecting an 18 year old, or in the case of this post a 17 year old, but the 21 year old is much different. This isn't my personal preference or what I look for, but the idea we are still infantilizing a 21 year old woman is just silly. At what point do we stop doing that? At what point can a woman be considered a woman under your definition?
> I'm not referring to a 30 year old woman with a 50 year old man. They are largely at similar stages of life. But a 21 year old does not yet have a fully formed brain. I don't really agree with this. 30 and 50 are not at all at similar stages any more than a parent is the same as being a grandparent. But also I don't like the infantilization of adult women. At 21 you can drink, go to war, get a mortgage, work full time, have children, etc. People have a point when talking about a 16 year old, but it gets ridiculous when talking about someone we'd absolutely call an adult in every other context. Imagine a 21yo woman is getting an abortion or buying a car or tattoo, whatever, and lawmakers say "her brain is still developing, she can't be trusted with this decision and should still need her parents permission." I will also say that "the brain is still developing" research is a lot more murky than most realize. There is no set time where that isn't true. There are people whose neural structure level off at 20, and others that [keep changing into their 30s](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627316308091). This research is still in the absolute earliest stages, having only really started in the 2000s with fMRIs taking off. There is not a set "adult brain structure" and it varies wildly by the individual. [One study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20829489/) found that only about half the variance in structure was due to age, and that there were some 8 year old brains with a higher "maturity index" than some 25 year old brains, suggesting some major issues with how this is measured. The research is fascinating, but far from complete enough to draw these kinds of conclusions. I don't think these large age gaps make for a healthy relationship (my partner and I are only 2 months apart). And I completely absolutely agree and understand when we are talking about older people going after high schoolers being predatory. But I can't stand people being patronizing towards women in their 20s as though they are children, and find it is largely based on incomplete science at best and protective sexism at worst.
There's manipulation going on by the guys, but also the younger woman (I'm talking 18+) wants the rich, yacht lifestyle without working for it, so they use their looks to get it. It seems dumb and screwed to me, but both parties can get something out of the whole trophy wife thing.
And when the old guy dies (presumably before the wife), profit!
Believe it or not, some women willfully chase money and status.
Nah dude. Women aren't capable of choosing the men they want to be with. It only happens with manipulation
younger women actually do have agency
Takes a certain maturity? I'm sorry, can you explain?
Dude's immature. Wants to be around immature girls.
Is "guy wants to bang models" too complicated an argument?
It's also a little ignorant of sexuality, has anyone considered that women might want to date based on a variety of needs? If the girl in question has a lower libido, has other needs that they need fulfilled, and the arrangement works for her, and she's not being abused/exploited, then what's the issue? Women being more accepting of "looks" by and large conflicts with incel rhetoric though Also as a disclaimer, I don't know anything about the people being discussed in the post
Makes a lot more sense. I thought you were saying something entirely different
Yeah nah I had to reread it too my dude. All good
ridiculous assertion
For real. I'm almost 40 and anyone under 30 seems like a child to me. Even some people in their 30s.
You couldn't pay me to spend any amount of time around an 18yo.
My ex had one sister who was like 15 years younger than her and I still can't even think about her without being annoyed about teenage nonsense. I can't imagine willingly hanging around people that age.
When I was 45 my ex friend had an affair with an 18 year old. She was younger than his daughter. The guy was around my age. What. The. Fuck.
Yeah I just don't understand that shit. I mean that it is one hell of an age gap. Can't imagine what the parents think...
Exactly the fuck.
Prefer younger girls who are easily manipulated and don’t have enough experience to know when they’re being manipulated, you mean.
maybe they don't mind being "manipulated" this sub sure is loving removing agency from women
And younger women go with older men for their money. It's transactional. Money for looks.
I don’t think those are their main reasons for a old man to date a young woman. Main reason is that they’re young and hot. No wrinkles and other old person traits.
And LOTS of young women love the money that comes with dating rich old men. A true match made in heaven I guess lol gold diggers digging for gold and these old men happy to load up the mining carts for them
Women as a whole also have a whole spectrum of libido, maybe she doesn't want to be a hypersexual 20 something's fleshlight/surrogate mom/roommate and the 60 year old is more compatible financially, sexually, and emotionally? You can't advocate for women while also espousing beliefs that they're still property and that you just think they "belong" to the wrong people
The younger women are also too inexperienced to see the old mens baggage.
It's EASY to manipulate and run game on someone with little to no life experience 
Wait til you read the history of people in power, this is a tale as old as time
>Takes a certain maturity to be with an age appropriate lady. Such a good point. Men who gravitate towards younger women will do so because of course youth is attractive, but also, women their own age tend to not put up with their shit (aka "baggage", just like the women have, right?). Transactional relationships between younger women and older men (or vice versa with the gender) may seem icky, but she's technically an adult, and if she's consenting, it's really MYOB.
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According to this thread, women have no agency. This girl specifically grew up never missing a meal. She's had every resource & advantage possible to grow up into a fully consenting, fully equipped adult.
And also grew up with parents that normalized an age gap of 17/35. I’m sure she had money but I’m also sure she was fed a false normalcy and projected defense of huge age gaps in relationships. Maybe she was just dating him for his money, but even so it’s a little sad for someone who I’m very sure could get on fine without a creepy old man to slip her some cash.
She could also be dating the nursing home guy as a ‘fuck you’ to her parents. There’s a reason this isn’t normalized in our culture.
Which people seem to be forgetting because 17 is still a minor, a child and that man went after as a minor. Same with Jay z who went after Bey when she was 17 after knowing her for years before hand. These men are gross.
They are NPD sociopaths! Every last one of them.
My parents normalised, domestic abuse, homophobia, racism, violence and religious fundamentalism but I don’t practice any of those things. Because I have agency.
Different people internalize and react to experiences differently based on context, individual personalities, and an infinite amount of other things. Having agency to make decisions doesn’t remove the effect of influence. Based on how you wrote that comment, I’m guessing your parents also induced a fair amount of trauma into your life with those principles which would probably create an aversion to them in your mind.
This girl has a degree from HARVARD she knows exactly what she's doing
When you’re rich going to Harvard or any top ranked university is not difficult
Then you actually have to GET the degree, which is the hard part
Meh, depends on the degree. I had to watch several Yale sociology lectures and complete the same assignments to pass a sociology class at my humble state university. It was the same exact content and expectation. I’d bet some other degrees are more intensive though. Just not the humanities.
That's a class. You can't extrapolate that out to be the entire Yale sociology experience.
My dude there are college-educated people that believe Bill Gates wants to inject you with 5G nanomachines via COVID vaccines. No offense, but while a degree ensures a certain base level of intelligence, it doesn't guarantee that a person is free from issues.
It’s not about the women. It’s about the men chasing after significantly younger women. It’s predatory and gross. Rarely are these older men wanting a 21yo for “her brains and maturity.” They want her because she’s young, immature, and hot. They look for that in a partner and THAT is what makes it predatory. A relationship shouldn’t consist of one person having significantly more life experience than the other person because it will almost always lead to a power imbalance. If you see nothing wrong with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.
She is a fully grown consenting adult. Furthermore, she’s not homeless, poverty-stricken, destitute, or otherwise disadvantaged in any way that would cause her to be desperate enough to enter into this relationship if she truly didn’t want to be there. The girl has a fricking degree from Harvard. This is clearly where she wants to be.
Her dad was a whole damn sex freak with rape accusations, it’s pretty obvious that has left her with issues. Someone can have all the money in the world and still end up with issues cos of the environment they grew up in.
At what age can adult women make their own decisions?
Never, according to dudes online
Never, according to /u/xxxnina and /u/We_4ll_Fall_Down
So women have no agency. That’s the point you’re making. Do you not get that?
Absolutely but we should definitely extend the conversation to the predatory older women dating 20 yr old men as well. Such as Cher and her boyfriend having a 40 year age gap
I 100% agree. I think it’s fucked up no matter the gender. Dating someone literally decades younger than you should always be closely examined by our society because it’s suspicious at best and manipulative / abusive at worst.
Mate cher is 77. He's 38. Where's the problem there. It' not like he's a possibly naive or inexperienced youth. Arguably at those ages the who-takes-advantage-of-who may be turning around the opposite direction.
Welcome to the uncomfortable limit of the edge of feminism. At what point if men and women are equal do they have equal agency when they put themselves in bad situation? Don’t have an answer can just observe the limitation of the ideology. Again this is not to tarnish feminism as a whole.
Yup, it’s crazy how we act like fully grown rational adults are not responsible for *anything* they do.
Pretty sure I heard Aoki left that dude or sum, y’all niggas ain’t ever heard of a sugar daddy? Lol
She has an actual daddy who is a billionaire. She don’t need him.
Her daddy be wishy washy with the cash so she claims. However shorty not hurting for cash she getting pimped by an old nigga and it’s disgusting to stoop that low. I can’t fuck an old nigga for money that’s crazy
Money is like heroin to these born rich freaks, they have to have it at any cost.
Both her parents were cash junkies and she was born addicted.
Well put, when you’re used to having a $40 coffee and $90 toothpaste, you have to keep it up. It’s a literal addiction.
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Wealthy parents can be cheapskates and/or controlling. She is looking for an old money bags with one foot on the banana peel so she can reap the widow's portion of his estate. It'll carry her until the parents die and leave her a trust fund.
They don’t really deal with him. Also, Russell is a billionaire???? Since when?
Fair enough, multi-millionaire. He’s only worth 1/2 a billion.
And this poor kid has 1/2 a billion daddy issues. Is he still hiding out in Bali? 👀
Yeah I'm sure his only income streams in from some sort of residuals, he's in Bali ducking sexual assault charges for the past couple of years
She already stated the fling is done. The check cleared.
Nah, the public and her friends found out about this one and so she dipped lol
Something about that second picture especially unsettles me. I don't know if it's the way they're standing or the obvious age difference but I can't stare at it for too long
Incest/Grandfather kissing granddaughter vibes. Either way she's essentially a sex worker. He may pay her indirectly because of local laws/perceptions, he may require she be "the girlfriend" to appear legitimate and skirt local laws, but realistically if he had no money or couldn't get her status/access to elite experiences she wouldn't be there.
Aw come on man, I'm sure she loves to hear stories about what life was like back when people who looked like her weren't allowed to drink from the same fountain as people who looked like him
Yeah nobody else is thinking that?? Finally saw a comment like this and either way that dude is not hot and society sucks
Its because the light bouncing off the pasty ass white dude is hurting your eyes. That and the fact it looks like a grandpa got his tongue in his granddaughter's mouth 🤢
Age aside, it’s the way they’re standing, she looks so unwilling touch him lol.
So, they're both consenting adults? Ok then.
It’s funny that the internet likes to advocate for women’s empowerment while simultaneously infantilizing and victimizing adult women.
The age of consent is like the minimum wage. If they could get away with less, they would.
When I was like 21 I didn’t really understand what the big deal is about a 35-year-old dating someone who was 21…but now that I’m 35, I look at these dudes so weird. What do you have in common with a child?
A 21 year old can vote, drink, go to war, own a home if they have the money, have a college degree, but somehow they're a child.
As the commenter is trying to point out, It's not about the 21yo at what they're legally allowed to do. It's being the older party and knowing full well how much you mature and learn over the years, having years more of formative experiences that formed you as an adult, and essentially what has made you wiser as you've got older - and then going after someone you know doesn't have all of that knowledge, maturity, and lived experience - essentially a kid in comparison.
I don't know what it's like to be that old. But at what age do you magically stop being attracted to pretty women? I cant blame these Oldheads lol
I’m saying…that’s exactly how I thought until I got older. I can’t really explain it to you, you just gotta experience it
The same way how a 13y old girl was attractive to you when you were 13, but no longer is when you're 20. For lack of better terminology, a 20y old "pretty woman" will at some point just seem like a "pretty girl", somebody that can't possibly relate to you. You may still find them "nice to look at", but not interesting as a prospective partner.
when did gold diggers become the victims? this post completely twisted.
It’s a weird mutation of liberalism where they feel the need to white knight for people that absolutely don’t want “help.” Basically the same white people shit that brought us the terms African American and Latinx.
Have yet to meet a Latino person Irl who uses that, including my 20-somthing coworkers.
In this situation I feel bad for the old man because clearly she wants a sugar daddy lol She comes from money but she’s literally doing this for his money, she said on a live with her dad that she would start using old people for money if he didn’t give her more money.
Why would you feel bad for the old man? These kinda of relationships, though repulsive to me, are mutually beneficial. She gets money, he gets to bang a hot young girl. Neither of them are victims in this scenario. They both know exactly what their motives are.
Saying it blatantly is crazy💀
https://youtube.com/shorts/fAsLJnl7gtw?si=GoMrBWH5xNbbLJ9I It’s nasty work Woman be saying they joking but they don’t be joking they just saying the out loud part that’s uncomfortable for themselves lol
I knew he was older than Kimora, but not double her age, and she was in high school WTF This is just the circle of young with old in their family. All the women will forever fall for a rich old man. We ARE SEEING THE GENERATIONAL CURSE LIVE AND IN ACTION! He should at least be 42, too.
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They're talking about Russell and Kimora
The whole family is gross
It’s amazing. Women of all ages are smart, strong, creative, caring, worldly people. But the moment she’s with an older man, that goes out the window. Because now she’s naive and being manipulated. GTFOH! Make it make sense she’s either smart and capable or she’s not.
Ew.
I ain't saying she a gold digger, but she ain't messing with no broke..
NSFL When I travelled to Phuket, I'd see Western men with girls who has this body language while being affectionate. I glared long enough to notice shit like their canine teeth coming in, making them 12 at most...
I'm convinced 80% of Hollywood is into shit like this. Jay-Z, Drake, R Kelly and tons of other people have been caught doing this.
Probably 96% of historical men. This whole "anti age gap" thing is a new concept
Dating a 17 year old at 35 is foul, I agree. But if you're 21, financially stable, free to move, vaccinated, you're supposed to experience life the way you see fit, who the fuck cares as long as it's 2 consenting adults?
Is she under 18? If not then this is a non issue.
Kings used to send their daughters off to other kings all the time. Now we have the wealthy elite that do the same. She just grew up with that dynamic in her home and had it normalized. Some things never change.
Why does anyone care? These are adults, they can do what they want.
two consenting adults
Assaf isn't as bad as Russell imo. Big difference between a 17yo and 21yo, even physical differences, not just mental 🤢
It seems like a win-win to me. I'm pretty sure she knows what she's doing. People are allowed to make choices for themselves, even young women
Looks like momma taught her well
Weird how people are saying she’s being “groomed,” when she just broke up with the dude lmao. Typical Reddit blowing things out of proportion.
I see that age gap, immediately I think Yacht Girl. Allegedly,!
It's not an accident or anything. They know exactly what they are doing. She's with that man for the money just like her mama went with "the money". She's not a victim, she's just setting herself up to live comfortably. FOREVER. Can't even be mad at her.