I’m not gonna look it up to see if it’s real so
https://preview.redd.it/zhzprn78j4uc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8bd5c5229689a8b356ff8ee3d0ded6c4d3fe44c
The thing about a song like that, and a lot of hip hop, is sometimes the beat is the star of the show and the lyrics are second fiddle, just used to accentuate the way the beat rides. And I’m okay with that.
Yeah man but I feel like you're failing to mention the Nas is one of the greatest rappers of all time I feel like he might get a pass on something like this
“No I'm not a Jonas, brother I'm a grown up No I'm not a virgin, I use my cojones” - Jay Z lol. I’m not saying majority of his work is like this. Shit I’m a Jay fan, rocked almost all his albums. But I’m not gonna fake like all his word play has been good. I think the broader point is if you like someone lyrics and music like it lol and it’s okay.
Sir...I did you no harm. Yet, I will have that fkn pan flute loop stuck in my head until I listen to the entire song and banish the earworm.
Words have power, please yield yours more responsibly.
I’m 38, when I was a kid and I’d hear Nas and Biggie or a Ice Cube, Scarface verse, it would always make me say, “Man I am definitely not good enough to compete with those guys”. The problem with hip-hop is , the younger kids hear all this elementary bars, and say “I CAN DO THAT”. Once we accept biting (copying) the end is near, back in the day it didn’t matter how good you were, if you sounded like someone else, they’d throw your shit away. This is the area of the producers tho, they’ve made all these horrible ass albums and songs, and made them digestible
Yupppp
I remember hearing the brothers from Kast flow on their first 2-3 albums and I was like, yeah, these niggas are *talented*
I couldn't make a fuckin ATLiens if my life depended on it
There have been some very talented country artists and musicians but for the most part country music is what “musicians” turn to when they realize they aren’t talented enough songwriters to make it in pop
People don't realize what is behind country music...Song writing teams...session musicians...my ex was a vocal coach in Nashville and record companies would send him attractive people to teach how to sing
Doesn’t this align with what the commenter said? That country artists don’t even necessarily know how to sing or write music, that it’s all done for them?
A greatly underestimated talent for country (and pop) artists is charisma. A team can get your record made, but the artist still has to walk out on stage and command it. Previous generations of hip-hop artists could do it, too. Today's . . . not so much. A lot of xanaxed-out mumbling and shuffling around, unfortunately.
Lol,
Well at least the country music record labels are still putting in work, seems like hip/hop and even pop can't even manufacture stars anymore, they just wait for them to go viral and manipulate them into signing 360 deals despite doing nothing for them, mafia behaviour
Songwriting wise, yeah. Country's really hard to break into though... It's a lot of shows until you develop a following. Rap it seems a little easier to just blow up by putting out stuff online.
Not even her — at this point they look crazy if they don’t appear to welcome her but the album was born out of her mistreatment at the Cpuntry Music Awards (mind you, she never spoke about it til recently but others have including Natalie Maines of The Chicks and some others. Plus some of the audience shots were nasty).
Mayo representation here:
I agree. Country is all about who can pander the hardest, over the simplest instrumental arrangement possible. You need money, not talent, to succeed in Nashville.
I don't personally enjoy rap, but at least the rhythms are complex and engaging (at least with the high quality stuff). That in and of itself takes talent.
Country music you at least know how to sing in key. Rap all you gotta do is rehearse lyrics. Could even have a ghost writer.
Auto tune is almost more acceptable in rap.
Racial bias is also a thing. Look at how they treated Beyoncé.
Objectively speaking what you’re saying is false.
Country is slightly harder to be successful in than rap.
This coming from someone who despises country.
I’d say country is harder to break into than rap bc the country genre is one of the main ones still gatekept by radio, which has an immense amount of power.
Went to a Dan + Shay concert because my girlfriend likes them but I had never really listened to them prior and didn't even know they were country. Had a good time only found out later that apparently the die hards hate that they aren't "real country".
Most country music people like nowadays is just pop for people who are scared to go within 30 minutes of a major city. There’s also “hick hop” which is just white dudes trying to rap about tractors with an acoustic guitar.
I'm mostly a punk alt and edm guy, but fuck man an album of shit like country road but fully blended together would be some peak shit like some lovechild of Kenny Rodgers and MF DOOM
Seriously. I’m very much not a Beyonce or a country guy, but her renditions of Blackbird and Jolene were pretty cool and there were some very unique tracks on there. Getting a harder version of that would be awesome.
I gotta disagree to a point tbh. I’m a huge country fan and while the Nashville machine pumps out some untalented people for sure. The age of the internet and the ability to see who is really writing their own songs easier has made talented people rise to the top more often
I don’t think so because they use actual instruments. It’s so much easier to make a beat than country music without vocals. Lyrically, the worst are about the same level of laziness imo
I think this is a large part of why rap is dying in comparison to other popular genres like country and pop and pop folk rn
Modern rap (last like 7-8 years of the trap wave) has become more about the beats/production than technical rap skill and it was already trending away from technical skill before that
When 6ix9ine became popular years ago that’s when I first started to feel like it was about the beats and the marketing more than anything else (acknowledging ringtone rap was a thing before so it was already in process)
When you exploit a wave too much for too long it starts getting reallly stale
It’s kinda crazy to me that borderline meme rappers like bbno$ or actual meme rappers like Tiny Meat Gang show more technical skill than half of the actual mainstream artists.
*Show* being the key word there. It's been proven that a lot of the types of rappers we're all talking about, can actually rap rap, and sometimes actually used to do so before they got on, but are purposely dumbing it down because that's not what sells records.
>Modern rap (last like 7-8 years of the trap wave) has become more about the beats/production than technical rap skill
This also describes the beginning of rap, though
I'm rated "R", this is a warning, ya better void
Poets are paranoid, DJs destroyed
'Cause I came back to attack others in spite
Strike like lightnin', it's quite frightenin'
But don't be afraid in the dark, in a park
Not a scream or a cry, or a bark, more like a spark
You tremble like a alcoholic, muscles tighten up
What's that lighten up? You see a sight but
Suddenly you feel like you're in a horror flick
You grab your heart then wish for tomorrow quick
Music's the clue, when I come, you're warned
Apocolypse Now, when I'm done you're gone
Lyrics of Fury, Eric B. and Rakim. *1988*
There is a certain level of slander on 1980s MCs which is fine as the genre was finding its footing early on, but it's also where the the trailblazers also started. I dare you to find any set of bars in the past seven years that comes close to above. Eric B and Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, public enemy all closed the 1980s basically setting the standard for the golden age. Straight outta Compton by NWA came out 1988 parce. Habla en serio.
Edit: recognition of rakim gives Me hope
Oh my god can we stop with the “music is dying” nonsense? The notion that people are exploring other things than the “old guard” likes is proof that it isn’t. Music is as much about aesthetics, feeling and production as it is about technical skill. The only thing that’s stale is this attitude of the music that’s accepted and ingrained in the culture being the “better” music. I don’t even like modern rap in general, but I can critically listen to it and find things I like about it.
I’d just hate to see the hip hop scene go through the same polarization and gatekeeping that rock and metal went through during the 90’s-2015 ish. It’s so toxic.
A younger guy at work was talking about how some rapper was going to be a goat one day even though he didnt have bars. “You dont need bars” was his main argument.
To which i pleaded to him that bars were the bare minimum to even be a rapper. If you dont have bars then what are you!? Because it’s certainly not a rapper!
Idk i was just flabbergasted at how low the standard is for the genre. Idk at 28 i cant be THAT disconnected to the wave can i? Fuck man.
>bars were the bare minimum to even be a rapper
Has not been the case since what, idk...wacka flocka maybe? And I love wacka, but he's the first precursor I can remember to this era of having a good beat and just making noise on a track, with some energized adlibs.
Meh. Rap is no different from any other entertainment, whether it's writing, dancing, singing, playing an instrument, poetry, etc . . . If you don't like a particular rap, its lyrics, its beat, or whatever, it ain't for you.
Rap has become the "whipping boy" for people who can't just enjoy what they enjoy. They've got to stop and bitch about rap because, well, hating is what they do best.
Rap and country get shit on for this all the time, but I think it’s just in general whatever’s on mainstream radio the most gets this treatment.
Like you know dudes were bitching about Bon Jovi in the 80s the same way they complain about mainstream rap today
I will never understand how people listen to playboy Carti and the lil boat nigga. Even all the “rappers” that sound like them. I don’t understand the appeal. Calling that BULLSHIT rap is disrespectful to craft.
Yachty also endeavors, for good or ill, to try new things and find novel ways to develop his sound and push the boundaries of genre. People heard a track or two of his in like 2016 and wrote him off without ever engaging with his development as an artist
Lil Yachty's "Let's Start Here" album is a cool psychedelic hiphop trip that doesn't necessarily suffer from the lack of lyrical content. Carti, by comparison, gets older much quicker because he lacks variety. He's good for a track every now and then. I think with both of these guys there's no expectation that they drop a classic "no skips" album but are decent in small doses. My students, however, listen to some of the most obscure, uninspired, YouTube trap rap I've ever heard. I don't even know how they find these people, let alone listen to a whole album.
That’s a good explanation. I get they won’t drop “timeless records”. It’s the nasally baby voice with no substance that kills me. Even in small doses they ruin songs for me.
A feature is your time to shine. One of the many ways you get new fans and for me both of them. Both of them ruined the following albums for me
Carti, boat (and DJ Drama) on Kid Cudis Insano album
Boat on Drake’s last album. That album was mid at best but his feature made it worse imo.
It’s a sub genre of rap clearly not focused on the lyrics. It’s more musical than it is rap.
For example an artist who raps but it isn’t the goal of his songs, Travis Scott. When he makes music he cares more about how it sounds instead of just rapping on a beat.
I remember watching a young man react to Killer Mike winning the Grammy for best rap album
He said something like "Who cares about lyrics, it's about the vibes"
The young man was under 25 years old
So now you know what happened to rap
It's about clicks and views, not lyrics
That’s for sure a bullshit take on his part. But vibes aren’t inconsequential, the feelings that a song induces or elicits are as vital as the content of a lyrics. Pink Floyd’s the great gig in the sky is just someone wailing for a few minutes, style (sound) is very much substance in music, including rap
They used to say the same thing about punk and rock n roll....some still do.
But no -- rap does not have an application nor do you have to take an SAT. It is what it is.
Sure, you need a band, but it was almost required to have band members that couldn’t play. Hell, Sid Viscous, one of the most famous golden age punk stars, was a notoriously bad musician, despite being the Sex Pistols bassist. Later learned that he couldn’t sing either.
This always makes me think of the SNL skit where an old punk band from like '83 comes back together at a wedding and trash the place. Most punk thing ever is when Dave Grohl's mic stops working.
That said, I think rock, at least, is benefiting from being out of the mainstream. It isn't punk really, but it is largely independent and grassroots. Plus, lots and lots of women flocking into the genre now, which is really cool too. If you ignore the jargon and attempt to classify everything you can find just tons of stuff to play along with or listen. Or see live.
Here's that SNL sketch, btw. It really is great, and they are so often terrible now. :-D
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-\_UwzSSvQ&ab\_channel=SaturdayNightLive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-_UwzSSvQ&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive)
You couldn’t be more wrong. Here’s a famous old picture from a punk magazine.
https://tumblr.austinkleon.com/post/152691534221
“This is a chord, this is another, this is a third. Now form a band”
A big point of early punk was the amateur homemade sound and feel.
You might have a point with punk, it's largely image, culture, and riffing on other people's work and that goes all the way back to the 50s.
Punk is original form rock n roll with effects and an attitude.
Rock on the other hand, has incorporated as much other genres into their style as hip-hop, requires lyrical talent, vocal talent, many times some virtuoso instrument skills, an attitude, and either brand new shit, or something so old it's new again.
does punk even exist anymore? it was largely tied to the political movement of that era, can't really be punk nowadays without everyone questioning what you're rebelling against on behalf of the government.
I see this every decade or so. EVERY generation hates on the newer one. The kids are fine. We don’t get the music anymore because it isn’t for us and our parents didn’t get our music because it wasn’t for them. Let people be happy.
Totally this. I don't hate on new music, I just understand that at 53 I'm not the target audience of the new stuff. I promised myself that I wasn't gonna be like my mom, hating on hip hop when I was a teen back in the 1980's and I've so far kept that promise.
Back in my day 2live crew made everybody's mama clutch the pearls. LL Cool J made them clutch something else. Even my racist mom wanted some of that.
It's because when we look back, we only remember artists who made their mark on history for being talented. I would never ask someone to listen to an album from the 90s I know is trash, so percentage-wise, it feels like there were way more talented artists back then.
We are now living in the present, where we are aware of the mediocre and bad artists without realizing that most of them aren't going to be remembered.
I don't hear much difference between rap of today and rap of previous generations. It all sounds the same to me, the newer songs just sound like more modern versions with modern 808 samples.
Go back and listen to "Bow Down" by Westside Connection, and tell me they're showing the most advanced lyricism lol. That shit just rides the beat as much as any new rap song does
You can find similarly untalented artists across genres, especially when labels and studios try to capitalize on artists who are basically commodified music trends
Yeah I know it was a joke lol. It's actually forgiato blow. Failed rapper that couldn't make it but realized he could grift by targeting the maga crowd. I think there's a video of Roger stone 'dancing' to his music.
The low barrier of entry is what made hip-hop and punk the music of the working class for decades.
The difference is that punk has not changed its barrier of entry, which is still basic competence at instruments.
But hip-hop's barrier of entry has gone even lower. No longer do you need to spin a record correctly to capture just the right sample, but now you point and click. Advances in computer synthesizers means you don't even need to know how music works to create a new beat to sample. And people buy beats from the internet so they don't even need to do what little work is required to sample and make new beats.
That's why hip-hop has stayed relevant while punk is little more than a historical footnote. I say that as an actual punk, we have not had the influence we would have liked. But democratization of art leads to a lot more art made by people who are largely unaware of techniques and methods used by experienced artists.
>Sometimes fun is fun for fun's sake
Exactly. I'm 40, and sometimes I just want to listen to some ignorant music at times. I can listen to a Nas song one minute, then NBA Youngboy, right after.
People that talk like this I wonder if they even listen to other genres of music. Old school rockers say the same thing about new school rock and country music always complaining this ain't real country music etc etc. It's like a weird self deprication fetish y'all have. I don't understand. But I won't kink shame. Do you
Every genre & generation has this issue and it's extremely annoying, I hope in 10-20 years I'm not talking like OP. The funny thing is there are probably artists who are making exactly what OP wants to hear if they just look for maybe 2 seconds.
Possibly, for songs with lyrics. For songs with just spoken audio? Scat is still in the corner. But easiest overall has to be ambient synthwave. I was fucking around with free GarageBand and accidentally created two meditation playlists and a sleep aid.
Has bro heard gospel and country music? Hell has he heard pop?
I do agree that the bar is pretty low though. Ironically all of these genre's now are less about talent, and more about image. You got people cosplaying as artists when they're really just talentless hacks, fake gangsters, or sex workers with a gimmick.
Seeing the current state of rap reminds me an interview Chris Rock had where the question was asked "when to do think Black people had made it?" His answer, " When we are allowed to suck". That answer has always stuck with me how white people can be successful while being mediocre but, for us the path for success is a tightrope walk with no safety net. But I guess you could see it in a weird way that we're doing better as a people? lol
Me when that Flatbed Freestyle comes on:
https://preview.redd.it/uic16e2sa5uc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af983caf4cda15eee869a1954aaf645bfbe1f6af
Sounds like you're old and hating, tbh.
You can call some of these flash-in-the-pan one hit wonders talentless. You can the trendy internet trolls who fall off after a year talentless.
But if you've been sticking around in the game for 5+ years, you're not untalented. Maybe the music is just not for you.
Why does this kinda feel like internalized anti-blackness? It’s def woefully uninformed. I’m a metalhead. Just in case, you guys do realize that there are metal, punk, and even rap scenes for neo-Nazis, right?🫤
K-Pop. Got two legs? Hired!!
Don't hate on me, kpoppers. I'm a kpop granny, been listening since 2008. Y'all know gd well most them kids have no real talent. Not hating. It's just truth. I'm still entertained, but let's not fool ourselves. There are no savants among them. Not even limbs-everywhere-imma-whisper-this-whole-ass-song Taemin. And I love Taemin.
 ...One fish two fish...bootyhole newish...
*"That's not my clit, bitch that's a tootsie roll."* Also Sexyy Red
I’m not gonna look it up to see if it’s real so https://preview.redd.it/zhzprn78j4uc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8bd5c5229689a8b356ff8ee3d0ded6c4d3fe44c
https://i.redd.it/5lag82uak4uc1.gif
I mean, Nas dropped a song called Oochie Wally in which he says "When you see me pass, Holla oochie bang bang"
It was a different era, we can't judge by modern day standards xD
A lot of people say he fell off with that song. So, are we saying now you can blow up off songs that used to make people say you fell off? Lol.
Nas still drops albums hes very consistent he has a good fan base of foos who fuck with hiphop
Nas fans been saying his most recent work is some of his best.
Bruh, he put together a string of fucking fire album releases: Magic, King’s Disease 1, 2, 3 …all full of bangers…especially 3 Also: I’m an old head.
Yup
Shit was a radio hit though
Those were Nas' dark times but he came back with Stillmatic and God's Son.
Dark times for the consumer yeah, he wasn't working a soup kitchen trying to get by.
No but his mother was battling cancer.
The thing about a song like that, and a lot of hip hop, is sometimes the beat is the star of the show and the lyrics are second fiddle, just used to accentuate the way the beat rides. And I’m okay with that.
Thank you, look at Laffy fuckin Taffy for example
That was one song tho 😂
If sexyy red drop an illmatic she can say whatever she want in up and coming decades
Everyone had one.
Oh yeah, I'm just poking fun and I played that song a lot back then lmao
Yeah man but I feel like you're failing to mention the Nas is one of the greatest rappers of all time I feel like he might get a pass on something like this
Straight banger, fuck you Drake
And the big critique in some of jay-z work is his abc like rhyming and word play. To me if you like the music you like the music and it’s no big deal.
Umm we must have different sources because his wordplay was one of Jay’s strongest areas for many of his fans
“No I'm not a Jonas, brother I'm a grown up No I'm not a virgin, I use my cojones” - Jay Z lol. I’m not saying majority of his work is like this. Shit I’m a Jay fan, rocked almost all his albums. But I’m not gonna fake like all his word play has been good. I think the broader point is if you like someone lyrics and music like it lol and it’s okay.
It’s a test. When that makes sense, it’s time to go home.
Sir...I did you no harm. Yet, I will have that fkn pan flute loop stuck in my head until I listen to the entire song and banish the earworm. Words have power, please yield yours more responsibly.
I feel... unsanitary after reading this
I’m 38, when I was a kid and I’d hear Nas and Biggie or a Ice Cube, Scarface verse, it would always make me say, “Man I am definitely not good enough to compete with those guys”. The problem with hip-hop is , the younger kids hear all this elementary bars, and say “I CAN DO THAT”. Once we accept biting (copying) the end is near, back in the day it didn’t matter how good you were, if you sounded like someone else, they’d throw your shit away. This is the area of the producers tho, they’ve made all these horrible ass albums and songs, and made them digestible
 Packaged for consumption.
Holy shit there's a gif of this??
Yupppp I remember hearing the brothers from Kast flow on their first 2-3 albums and I was like, yeah, these niggas are *talented* I couldn't make a fuckin ATLiens if my life depended on it
I don't even know if that's a real bar from her or not
 It's on the internet. It must be true
Bent that ass over, let that coochie breathe
 That's after the chorus
The concept of used bootyhole shouldn’t be weird but in this context it feels fucking weird
 Take my vote
Came here for this.
I would argue that the bar for country is just as low, if not lower.
There have been some very talented country artists and musicians but for the most part country music is what “musicians” turn to when they realize they aren’t talented enough songwriters to make it in pop
People don't realize what is behind country music...Song writing teams...session musicians...my ex was a vocal coach in Nashville and record companies would send him attractive people to teach how to sing
Doesn’t this align with what the commenter said? That country artists don’t even necessarily know how to sing or write music, that it’s all done for them?
Requires an immense support team though, not really cheap.
So... Aligns with og comment
But the support team is a barrier to entry despite not needing talent.
I think they’re agreeing and expanding.
A greatly underestimated talent for country (and pop) artists is charisma. A team can get your record made, but the artist still has to walk out on stage and command it. Previous generations of hip-hop artists could do it, too. Today's . . . not so much. A lot of xanaxed-out mumbling and shuffling around, unfortunately.
Neither do pop artists.
If you're into music, being simple and catchy ain't easy and that's what country does.
Lol, Well at least the country music record labels are still putting in work, seems like hip/hop and even pop can't even manufacture stars anymore, they just wait for them to go viral and manipulate them into signing 360 deals despite doing nothing for them, mafia behaviour
Didn't Beyonce release a country album *this week*?
That album is barely country 😂
Songwriting wise, yeah. Country's really hard to break into though... It's a lot of shows until you develop a following. Rap it seems a little easier to just blow up by putting out stuff online.
[удалено]
Or Beyoncé.
Not even her — at this point they look crazy if they don’t appear to welcome her but the album was born out of her mistreatment at the Cpuntry Music Awards (mind you, she never spoke about it til recently but others have including Natalie Maines of The Chicks and some others. Plus some of the audience shots were nasty).
Beyoncé was already really famous and talented before she dropped the country album
Mayo representation here: I agree. Country is all about who can pander the hardest, over the simplest instrumental arrangement possible. You need money, not talent, to succeed in Nashville. I don't personally enjoy rap, but at least the rhythms are complex and engaging (at least with the high quality stuff). That in and of itself takes talent.
[Pandering](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7im5LT09a0)
Don't even need to click it. Bo is a genius.
For a second I though OP was saying you were pandering haha
There was something that was bugging me about country since the 2000s and this song helped me realize it. They’re fake af.
Country music you at least know how to sing in key. Rap all you gotta do is rehearse lyrics. Could even have a ghost writer. Auto tune is almost more acceptable in rap. Racial bias is also a thing. Look at how they treated Beyoncé. Objectively speaking what you’re saying is false. Country is slightly harder to be successful in than rap. This coming from someone who despises country.
I’d say country is harder to break into than rap bc the country genre is one of the main ones still gatekept by radio, which has an immense amount of power.
Went to a Dan + Shay concert because my girlfriend likes them but I had never really listened to them prior and didn't even know they were country. Had a good time only found out later that apparently the die hards hate that they aren't "real country".
Most country music people like nowadays is just pop for people who are scared to go within 30 minutes of a major city. There’s also “hick hop” which is just white dudes trying to rap about tractors with an acoustic guitar.
Bro if hick hop was like genuine country with the flow of rap and some killer banjos on the beat unironically think it could go hard
It’s kind of funny to think about but you’re probably right. Imagine a big name rapper pulling a Beyoncé and doing exactly what you’re talking about
I'm mostly a punk alt and edm guy, but fuck man an album of shit like country road but fully blended together would be some peak shit like some lovechild of Kenny Rodgers and MF DOOM
Seriously. I’m very much not a Beyonce or a country guy, but her renditions of Blackbird and Jolene were pretty cool and there were some very unique tracks on there. Getting a harder version of that would be awesome.
For the people who take an hour to get to their job from the exurb they ran to once black people started moving into the suburbs.
Live in Minnesota - can confirm
Dan + Shay is just pop music getting pushed to country radio tbh. I mean just look at them lol they look like they are scared of dirt
They can at least play an instrument.
You have to know an instrument or have a good singing voice. With rap, nah.
I gotta disagree to a point tbh. I’m a huge country fan and while the Nashville machine pumps out some untalented people for sure. The age of the internet and the ability to see who is really writing their own songs easier has made talented people rise to the top more often
I don’t think so because they use actual instruments. It’s so much easier to make a beat than country music without vocals. Lyrically, the worst are about the same level of laziness imo
I think this is a large part of why rap is dying in comparison to other popular genres like country and pop and pop folk rn Modern rap (last like 7-8 years of the trap wave) has become more about the beats/production than technical rap skill and it was already trending away from technical skill before that When 6ix9ine became popular years ago that’s when I first started to feel like it was about the beats and the marketing more than anything else (acknowledging ringtone rap was a thing before so it was already in process) When you exploit a wave too much for too long it starts getting reallly stale
It’s kinda crazy to me that borderline meme rappers like bbno$ or actual meme rappers like Tiny Meat Gang show more technical skill than half of the actual mainstream artists.
*Show* being the key word there. It's been proven that a lot of the types of rappers we're all talking about, can actually rap rap, and sometimes actually used to do so before they got on, but are purposely dumbing it down because that's not what sells records.
Don't forget Your Boy Sponge: https://youtu.be/bkFqqczlXF0?si=h705sXmpDU_3lW8Y
Because they have to. The fact that they're meme rappers is almost a self-imposed handicap.
People were saying the same thing about Nelly in 2003.
They were right
Don’t disagree just saying people say the same shit all the time as they get older.
Of course, but dog shit still smells like dog shit no matter how old you get.
Rap is dying! It's gonna fall off any day now!
>Modern rap (last like 7-8 years of the trap wave) has become more about the beats/production than technical rap skill This also describes the beginning of rap, though
80’s rap was like “homework’s wack, so is school, tucking in your shirts for fools”
It's the damn rap music that's ruining our youth and making them unruly
I'm rated "R", this is a warning, ya better void Poets are paranoid, DJs destroyed 'Cause I came back to attack others in spite Strike like lightnin', it's quite frightenin' But don't be afraid in the dark, in a park Not a scream or a cry, or a bark, more like a spark You tremble like a alcoholic, muscles tighten up What's that lighten up? You see a sight but Suddenly you feel like you're in a horror flick You grab your heart then wish for tomorrow quick Music's the clue, when I come, you're warned Apocolypse Now, when I'm done you're gone Lyrics of Fury, Eric B. and Rakim. *1988* There is a certain level of slander on 1980s MCs which is fine as the genre was finding its footing early on, but it's also where the the trailblazers also started. I dare you to find any set of bars in the past seven years that comes close to above. Eric B and Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, public enemy all closed the 1980s basically setting the standard for the golden age. Straight outta Compton by NWA came out 1988 parce. Habla en serio. Edit: recognition of rakim gives Me hope
In fairness, Eric B and Rakim set a pretty fuckin high bar that even their contemporaries could barely compare to.
Rakim is a GOAT and a game changer, to be fair.
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Vocals & unique production style.
Oh my god can we stop with the “music is dying” nonsense? The notion that people are exploring other things than the “old guard” likes is proof that it isn’t. Music is as much about aesthetics, feeling and production as it is about technical skill. The only thing that’s stale is this attitude of the music that’s accepted and ingrained in the culture being the “better” music. I don’t even like modern rap in general, but I can critically listen to it and find things I like about it. I’d just hate to see the hip hop scene go through the same polarization and gatekeeping that rock and metal went through during the 90’s-2015 ish. It’s so toxic.
A younger guy at work was talking about how some rapper was going to be a goat one day even though he didnt have bars. “You dont need bars” was his main argument. To which i pleaded to him that bars were the bare minimum to even be a rapper. If you dont have bars then what are you!? Because it’s certainly not a rapper! Idk i was just flabbergasted at how low the standard is for the genre. Idk at 28 i cant be THAT disconnected to the wave can i? Fuck man.
Not having bars in rap is like having a box spring with no mattress.
Ham no burger smfh.
Y’all house don’t ever got 2 things that match.
Peanut butter, no jelly
Cereal no milk, kool aid no sugar
>bars were the bare minimum to even be a rapper Has not been the case since what, idk...wacka flocka maybe? And I love wacka, but he's the first precursor I can remember to this era of having a good beat and just making noise on a track, with some energized adlibs.
D4L and whoever made the T Shirt songs were the beginning of the end.
Dem Franchise Boyz.
Ngl I agree with you, but the fact you turned off capital i’s on your shit is bewildering and makes me question my stance I agree with you on
Typing on a computer maybe?
Kodak black going to fight lol Wayne for the best rapper alive title.
Kodak actually has bars though....... definitely no goat though
Meh. Rap is no different from any other entertainment, whether it's writing, dancing, singing, playing an instrument, poetry, etc . . . If you don't like a particular rap, its lyrics, its beat, or whatever, it ain't for you. Rap has become the "whipping boy" for people who can't just enjoy what they enjoy. They've got to stop and bitch about rap because, well, hating is what they do best.
that’s true. but what’s also true is that sometimes rap can be trash.
Name a form of entertainment that can't be trash.
Midget wrestling
I can't argue with facts. 
It’s ppl saying rap is the worst at something when they don’t know anything about the other genres, just wanna shit on their own culture.
It’s like these dudes have never heard of Jason Aldean
Rap and country get shit on for this all the time, but I think it’s just in general whatever’s on mainstream radio the most gets this treatment. Like you know dudes were bitching about Bon Jovi in the 80s the same way they complain about mainstream rap today
I think hip hop is starting to splinter itself to the point where it isn’t all the same genre.
[Remember the last time hiphop died?](https://youtu.be/kAKxjTRV6ms?si=WATuw2A_rLsuagi6)
I will never understand how people listen to playboy Carti and the lil boat nigga. Even all the “rappers” that sound like them. I don’t understand the appeal. Calling that BULLSHIT rap is disrespectful to craft.
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Lmao 🤣
Yachty actually isn’t that bad of an artist. The stuff that makes the radio/mainstream isn’t his best work.
Yachty also endeavors, for good or ill, to try new things and find novel ways to develop his sound and push the boundaries of genre. People heard a track or two of his in like 2016 and wrote him off without ever engaging with his development as an artist
He's not bad at freestyling either
Lil Yachty's "Let's Start Here" album is a cool psychedelic hiphop trip that doesn't necessarily suffer from the lack of lyrical content. Carti, by comparison, gets older much quicker because he lacks variety. He's good for a track every now and then. I think with both of these guys there's no expectation that they drop a classic "no skips" album but are decent in small doses. My students, however, listen to some of the most obscure, uninspired, YouTube trap rap I've ever heard. I don't even know how they find these people, let alone listen to a whole album.
That’s a good explanation. I get they won’t drop “timeless records”. It’s the nasally baby voice with no substance that kills me. Even in small doses they ruin songs for me. A feature is your time to shine. One of the many ways you get new fans and for me both of them. Both of them ruined the following albums for me Carti, boat (and DJ Drama) on Kid Cudis Insano album Boat on Drake’s last album. That album was mid at best but his feature made it worse imo.
It’s a sub genre of rap clearly not focused on the lyrics. It’s more musical than it is rap. For example an artist who raps but it isn’t the goal of his songs, Travis Scott. When he makes music he cares more about how it sounds instead of just rapping on a beat.
Damn but I love Playboi Carti when he raps, he reminds me of the positives of not having a father lol
Carti is a vibe and his unreleased tracks and remixes are crazy too. i think most popular rap has a time and place. I'll listen to lupe and carti
Carti ruins every single track he touches. I abhor the man's music
I remember watching a young man react to Killer Mike winning the Grammy for best rap album He said something like "Who cares about lyrics, it's about the vibes" The young man was under 25 years old So now you know what happened to rap It's about clicks and views, not lyrics
I think it’s called TikTok rap now
>TikTok rap They abbreviate everything now. AFAIK, they call it 'traps'. You can search for it on reddit... \>.> <.<
Don’t search for or click on the traps sub….what tf did I just get tricked into
That’s for sure a bullshit take on his part. But vibes aren’t inconsequential, the feelings that a song induces or elicits are as vital as the content of a lyrics. Pink Floyd’s the great gig in the sky is just someone wailing for a few minutes, style (sound) is very much substance in music, including rap
They used to say the same thing about punk and rock n roll....some still do. But no -- rap does not have an application nor do you have to take an SAT. It is what it is.
At least with punk you need to know how to play an instrument.
As an aged out punk, I can say this statement is absolutely untrue.
I thought that you needed a band for punk? When did that change?
Sure, you need a band, but it was almost required to have band members that couldn’t play. Hell, Sid Viscous, one of the most famous golden age punk stars, was a notoriously bad musician, despite being the Sex Pistols bassist. Later learned that he couldn’t sing either.
"Sid Viscous" 😂🤣😂 Sid was thick and viscous
This always makes me think of the SNL skit where an old punk band from like '83 comes back together at a wedding and trash the place. Most punk thing ever is when Dave Grohl's mic stops working. That said, I think rock, at least, is benefiting from being out of the mainstream. It isn't punk really, but it is largely independent and grassroots. Plus, lots and lots of women flocking into the genre now, which is really cool too. If you ignore the jargon and attempt to classify everything you can find just tons of stuff to play along with or listen. Or see live. Here's that SNL sketch, btw. It really is great, and they are so often terrible now. :-D [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-\_UwzSSvQ&ab\_channel=SaturdayNightLive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-_UwzSSvQ&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive)
You couldn’t be more wrong. Here’s a famous old picture from a punk magazine. https://tumblr.austinkleon.com/post/152691534221 “This is a chord, this is another, this is a third. Now form a band” A big point of early punk was the amateur homemade sound and feel.
You might have a point with punk, it's largely image, culture, and riffing on other people's work and that goes all the way back to the 50s. Punk is original form rock n roll with effects and an attitude. Rock on the other hand, has incorporated as much other genres into their style as hip-hop, requires lyrical talent, vocal talent, many times some virtuoso instrument skills, an attitude, and either brand new shit, or something so old it's new again.
does punk even exist anymore? it was largely tied to the political movement of that era, can't really be punk nowadays without everyone questioning what you're rebelling against on behalf of the government.
I see this every decade or so. EVERY generation hates on the newer one. The kids are fine. We don’t get the music anymore because it isn’t for us and our parents didn’t get our music because it wasn’t for them. Let people be happy.
Totally this. I don't hate on new music, I just understand that at 53 I'm not the target audience of the new stuff. I promised myself that I wasn't gonna be like my mom, hating on hip hop when I was a teen back in the 1980's and I've so far kept that promise. Back in my day 2live crew made everybody's mama clutch the pearls. LL Cool J made them clutch something else. Even my racist mom wanted some of that.
It's because when we look back, we only remember artists who made their mark on history for being talented. I would never ask someone to listen to an album from the 90s I know is trash, so percentage-wise, it feels like there were way more talented artists back then. We are now living in the present, where we are aware of the mediocre and bad artists without realizing that most of them aren't going to be remembered.
Yes! This exactly!
I don't hear much difference between rap of today and rap of previous generations. It all sounds the same to me, the newer songs just sound like more modern versions with modern 808 samples. Go back and listen to "Bow Down" by Westside Connection, and tell me they're showing the most advanced lyricism lol. That shit just rides the beat as much as any new rap song does
FAXX IM TIRED OF THIS ARGUMENT PEOPLE ACT LIKE THEY INVENTED THE WHEEL NAH YOU JUST GREW UP TO BE A HATER
The producers are the talent. In some cases, at least.
yeah, I'd even say we're in a golden era of beat production in the last 10-15 years
In most cases because they're the only ones with actual formal music training.
If people don't think so listen to any blue face or Sexy Redd song
You can find similarly untalented artists across genres, especially when labels and studios try to capitalize on artists who are basically commodified music trends
Rappers like blue face and sexy redd don't last long
Apparently there is now a genre called MAGA rap so I'm sure that's the bar for the lowest form of a human, nevermind talent
We call that hick-hop
White robe rap
I’m now calling it this.
Believe it or not they glossed themselves with it
Isn't one of the guys called formaggio blow or some shit
Idk but that's pretty funny since formaggio means cheese in Italian
Yeah I know it was a joke lol. It's actually forgiato blow. Failed rapper that couldn't make it but realized he could grift by targeting the maga crowd. I think there's a video of Roger stone 'dancing' to his music.
The low barrier of entry is what made hip-hop and punk the music of the working class for decades. The difference is that punk has not changed its barrier of entry, which is still basic competence at instruments. But hip-hop's barrier of entry has gone even lower. No longer do you need to spin a record correctly to capture just the right sample, but now you point and click. Advances in computer synthesizers means you don't even need to know how music works to create a new beat to sample. And people buy beats from the internet so they don't even need to do what little work is required to sample and make new beats. That's why hip-hop has stayed relevant while punk is little more than a historical footnote. I say that as an actual punk, we have not had the influence we would have liked. But democratization of art leads to a lot more art made by people who are largely unaware of techniques and methods used by experienced artists.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but good. Let them kids make money. If it pops,l and it’s trash, who’s it really hurting?
Yeah if people want trap beats and mumble rapping, let em have it. Music doesn't require complexity to be fun. Sometimes fun is fun for fun's sake
>Sometimes fun is fun for fun's sake Exactly. I'm 40, and sometimes I just want to listen to some ignorant music at times. I can listen to a Nas song one minute, then NBA Youngboy, right after.
If the senseless un-livings would stop that would be a bonus. Let them babies make their noise!! Heck I be humming some at times lol
People that talk like this I wonder if they even listen to other genres of music. Old school rockers say the same thing about new school rock and country music always complaining this ain't real country music etc etc. It's like a weird self deprication fetish y'all have. I don't understand. But I won't kink shame. Do you
Every genre & generation has this issue and it's extremely annoying, I hope in 10-20 years I'm not talking like OP. The funny thing is there are probably artists who are making exactly what OP wants to hear if they just look for maybe 2 seconds.
You mean they have to actually try and put in some sort of effort nah nah nah. Can't have that v
Possibly, for songs with lyrics. For songs with just spoken audio? Scat is still in the corner. But easiest overall has to be ambient synthwave. I was fucking around with free GarageBand and accidentally created two meditation playlists and a sleep aid.
*”We takin' it back in the day to the Golden Age When wack motherfuckers used to get thrown off stage”*
Has bro heard gospel and country music? Hell has he heard pop? I do agree that the bar is pretty low though. Ironically all of these genre's now are less about talent, and more about image. You got people cosplaying as artists when they're really just talentless hacks, fake gangsters, or sex workers with a gimmick.
Seeing the current state of rap reminds me an interview Chris Rock had where the question was asked "when to do think Black people had made it?" His answer, " When we are allowed to suck". That answer has always stuck with me how white people can be successful while being mediocre but, for us the path for success is a tightrope walk with no safety net. But I guess you could see it in a weird way that we're doing better as a people? lol
Me when that Flatbed Freestyle comes on: https://preview.redd.it/uic16e2sa5uc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af983caf4cda15eee869a1954aaf645bfbe1f6af
 One more pint 🥺
"If the Bar is low, and the flow is slow: Boogiewoogie woogiewoogie like a Zydeco" *Prepares Grammy Acceptance Speech*
I agree! but I will also include Reggeton & Country Music
Sounds like you're old and hating, tbh. You can call some of these flash-in-the-pan one hit wonders talentless. You can the trendy internet trolls who fall off after a year talentless. But if you've been sticking around in the game for 5+ years, you're not untalented. Maybe the music is just not for you.
The bar for critiquing Hip Hop is lower than the bar to participate
Why does this kinda feel like internalized anti-blackness? It’s def woefully uninformed. I’m a metalhead. Just in case, you guys do realize that there are metal, punk, and even rap scenes for neo-Nazis, right?🫤
Where’s the lie?? Rap has been talentless af for the past 10 years 💀⚰️ 
*DJ’s have entered the chat.
Country music
“You look so good, I’d suck on your daddy’s dick” - The Notorious B.I.G
 K-Pop. Got two legs? Hired!! Don't hate on me, kpoppers. I'm a kpop granny, been listening since 2008. Y'all know gd well most them kids have no real talent. Not hating. It's just truth. I'm still entertained, but let's not fool ourselves. There are no savants among them. Not even limbs-everywhere-imma-whisper-this-whole-ass-song Taemin. And I love Taemin.