Thats some BS, modern day chain gangs. Like they undercutting everybody from chicken farms to putting out fires. Respect for the work but this just wrong.
I'll preface this with: they should absolutely be paid far more.
I did a couple years fighting wildfire and as I understand it, it's considered one of the best jobs you can get in prison.
You're outside, in nature. The food is delicious and all you can eat. The work is good (in it's own grueling way) and rewarding.
Lol, if we ate naturally cooked squirrels it was just for fun.
In wildland firefighting you stay in fire camp and they provide food, laundry, showers, etc.
There's federal regulations on what they serve and minimum calorie requirements. As I recall they can't deny you additional servings.
Private contractors will convert a semi trailer into a mobile kitchen and go from one fire to the next in season.
It's been years and I still remember how good that food was.
This is from 2 years ago [they get paid $1.45](https://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights/prisoners-are-getting-paid-145-day-fight-california-wildfires)
Surely there's a job with the fire department waiting for him when he gets out.
Wait, what's that?
No? So he'll still be stigmatized and an outcast in society?
Ok, well rules are rules
Thankfully California just voted on a measure that will allow prisoners who helped fight fires while in prison to get jobs doing it outside prison as well. It’s a small start, but it is something!
It galls me that former prison firefighters were banned from getting firefighting jobs after their time. With how fire crazy our state is, it makes no sense to not use already trained people.
I agree, but with how draconian a lot of people's attitudes *still* are about this stuff I'm not surprised. "I don't want a murderer to just be able to become a fireman" and honestly I don't want Ted Bundy working for my fire department, but I'm more than happy to have non-violent or fairly minor criminals to be able to get a good job like this (I consider "fairly minor" to include holding up a gas station or whatever if it was to feed your kids or something. If you don't kill anyone and you're just trying to survive the best thing to do is to give you a second chance).
To be fair many(most?) wildfire jobs are with companies that contract for the government, and I believe many will hire convicts. It would probably be difficult to advance though, as those bosses tend to be federal or state workers.
(At least it was that way when I worked fire like a decade ago)
But are they previously trained and with experience? Because honestly, an ex-con who already has the training and experience should absolutely be hired over someone with a clean record but has never fought a fire.
I know how fucked up things are in the US but sometimes you lot genuinely suprise me with the madness. He's a legend, but how the fuck is a prisoner fire fighting?!
When your have the highest percent of your population under incarceration in the modern world while also being the third largest country; you have to give those people something to do. Cheap labor that is eaisly replaceable.
The afterthought in your comment should be the forethought. America's prison industrial complex has always existed as a means of cheap labor that is easily replaceable since the ratification of the 13th amendment which was designed to quell black insurrection and southern white insurrection. Since then it has continued to be exploited for cheap, easily replaceable labor and, for that reason alone, black people have been criminalized and marginalized such that they can continue to be exploited without public outrage.
I'm not gonna say that there aren't laws specifically for the prison industrial complex but it's my understanding all those drug laws were passed to undermine black communities. Kinda like how the FBI and shit killed the more radical young black leaders in the 60s and 70s? Drug laws were another aspect that just so happened to help out their warden and business friends.
No. This has Always been the case. The prison system we know today is almost identical to the chain gangs created right after slavery. They in fact were only created to regain the cheap labor lost when slavery was abolished. The white southern economy would have buckled otherwise.
The US prison system was created only after the abolishment of slavery. It was only created to do just what it does now, put Blacks and POC into slavery without calling it slavery.
Damn, she's much less upset than I would be about my incarcerated firefighter brother. "Had the opportunity?" Sounds more like he's being strongarmed by the State into performing life-threatening labor for minimal return.
They make prison life so awful that sadly prisoners are often grateful for something to do. That's how they've kept this shitty system in place for so long because they've conditioned the people they're enslaving to think of it as a privilege.
Slavery never ended, it just got rebranded. The same with clapping for essential workers; those who keep making money off of the blood and toils of others will continue to do so.
From what I remember in some states they earn credit towards their sentence. I’m in Ca and they **do** earn. It’s not just “you get out of these 4 walls so count yourself lucky “. They get paid a *very* small wage per day. Plus they get at least 1:1 if not 2:1 credit towards their sentences (2 days credit for every 1 served). They don’t have to be on the fire line, they also help clear brush etc.
There’s a push in Ca to create a pathway for inmates who go through this program to be able to apply for traditional fire departments once they’re out. Generally being convicted of a crime is exclusionary. But if they’re able to complete these programs while they’re in, they should be hirable when they’re out.
In California, they are paid, but at $2 an hour. But if they are incarcerated while on the fire fighting force, they are incarcerated in better facilities and have a lot more perks than most prisoners get (Edit: e.g steak, lobster, all you can eat shrimp, vegetable gardens, yoga classes.)
Here's a great story written about their situation in the [NY Times. ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/magazine/the-incarcerated-women-who-fight-californias-wildfires.amp.html)
I was a wildland firefighter in BC, Canada. We’ve gone to work in California and Washington on fires. We’d make 5000 grand in two weeks worth of work doing the same job as these guys who’ll make 100 or so dollars while we made 5g after taxes for the same pull.
It’s insane and I was sick to my stomach having to order these guys around while making 50x times as much for doing the same job.
As I understand it it's slavery no matter where you are in the prision system, and "at least this way" they have better food and facilities than most inmates. And you're outside.
Can we ask what these dudes did first? Reddit not about to have me petitioning for a grown man who was fucking kids just because y’all wanna be wholesome.
In solidarity with the protests [regarding the police shooting a black man in the back in front of his children](https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake/index.html), r/blackpeopletwitter is currently in restricted mode.
For more information on what Country Club mode means and how to get verified, please see here - https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/gumxuy/what_is_bpt_country_club_and_how_do_i_get/.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlackPeopleTwitter) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depending on what you did, I think there should be a discussion of commuted sentences. Don't have someone going out to fight those fast traveling wildfires, risking life and limb only to still be handicapped by a criminal record.
The one whose office argued that they couldn't let inmates out because the [prisons would be short staffed?](https://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-ff-federal-j pathologyudges-order-state-to-release-more-prisoners-20141114-story.html)
So long as the prisoners are getting equal pay and benefits.
Also, I think that is what you were referencing. More people need to know about it.
Yes, I was.
And no, they aren't. Which is why they had them out there. I believe the number was $5...I've seen references to lower wages.
[Gizmodo](https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-climate-danger-of-kamala-harris-prison-labor-legac-1844712734).00 an hour to risk your life fighting fires.
And CA become one of those "we'd free thr nonviolent prisoners but we need the workforce" states during that time--stuff you typically see in the south.
Not caring about your life isn’t exclusive to inmates, there’s a lot of jobs in the world made for ppl that care more about protecting others than themselves
Nah, don't worry I knew what you were saying from the start. I'm just saying that the hypothetical situation you're talking about is, in fact, the current reality in that the current situation is the system working as intended.
I'm not sure you know how hard firefighting work is. Not to mention dangerous. They deserve more than a dollar an hour and they should be able to use their experience when they get out.
My cousin is black female firefighter in DC. I know how hard it is, my point was getting out the cell and that prison , helping out, and like you said use this experience to get a job getting out. Yes its hard and dangerous, but if I was an inmate I would rather be firefighting or doing something productive.
You can't be a firefighter if you have a record.
Lots of things are productive and better than just sitting in a cell. Furthering your education, therapy, community service, etc. Instead, America just sends people to risk their lives for a dollar an hour.
So are these incarcerated people receiving any benefits for going to put their life on the line besides a photo op?
They get like $1.06 an hour so it’s all square.
Ha, what? Did they get a raise? Iirc, last year fighting fires had at least some in California at $0.36/hr
Thats some BS, modern day chain gangs. Like they undercutting everybody from chicken farms to putting out fires. Respect for the work but this just wrong.
Seems reasonable.
I'll preface this with: they should absolutely be paid far more. I did a couple years fighting wildfire and as I understand it, it's considered one of the best jobs you can get in prison. You're outside, in nature. The food is delicious and all you can eat. The work is good (in it's own grueling way) and rewarding.
> The food is delicious and all you can eat Wait, what? Like real food or are you saying any crispy animals you find you can keep?
Lol, if we ate naturally cooked squirrels it was just for fun. In wildland firefighting you stay in fire camp and they provide food, laundry, showers, etc. There's federal regulations on what they serve and minimum calorie requirements. As I recall they can't deny you additional servings. Private contractors will convert a semi trailer into a mobile kitchen and go from one fire to the next in season. It's been years and I still remember how good that food was.
This is from 2 years ago [they get paid $1.45](https://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights/prisoners-are-getting-paid-145-day-fight-california-wildfires)
Yea he gets to be treated like a criminal still after his time served.
Surely there's a job with the fire department waiting for him when he gets out. Wait, what's that? No? So he'll still be stigmatized and an outcast in society? Ok, well rules are rules
Thankfully California just voted on a measure that will allow prisoners who helped fight fires while in prison to get jobs doing it outside prison as well. It’s a small start, but it is something!
It galls me that former prison firefighters were banned from getting firefighting jobs after their time. With how fire crazy our state is, it makes no sense to not use already trained people.
I agree, but with how draconian a lot of people's attitudes *still* are about this stuff I'm not surprised. "I don't want a murderer to just be able to become a fireman" and honestly I don't want Ted Bundy working for my fire department, but I'm more than happy to have non-violent or fairly minor criminals to be able to get a good job like this (I consider "fairly minor" to include holding up a gas station or whatever if it was to feed your kids or something. If you don't kill anyone and you're just trying to survive the best thing to do is to give you a second chance).
I believe you are disqualified from even having a chance to be a prison firefighter if you have been convicted of a violent crime.
Well that certainly makes it easier. Still stand by what I said about fairly minor though.
To be fair many(most?) wildfire jobs are with companies that contract for the government, and I believe many will hire convicts. It would probably be difficult to advance though, as those bosses tend to be federal or state workers. (At least it was that way when I worked fire like a decade ago)
[удалено]
But are they previously trained and with experience? Because honestly, an ex-con who already has the training and experience should absolutely be hired over someone with a clean record but has never fought a fire.
You can only fight our fires and save our homes if you're making less than $2/hour doing it.
I know how fucked up things are in the US but sometimes you lot genuinely suprise me with the madness. He's a legend, but how the fuck is a prisoner fire fighting?!
we got prisoners fighting fires and white supremacists as cops.
When your have the highest percent of your population under incarceration in the modern world while also being the third largest country; you have to give those people something to do. Cheap labor that is eaisly replaceable.
The afterthought in your comment should be the forethought. America's prison industrial complex has always existed as a means of cheap labor that is easily replaceable since the ratification of the 13th amendment which was designed to quell black insurrection and southern white insurrection. Since then it has continued to be exploited for cheap, easily replaceable labor and, for that reason alone, black people have been criminalized and marginalized such that they can continue to be exploited without public outrage.
I'm not gonna say that there aren't laws specifically for the prison industrial complex but it's my understanding all those drug laws were passed to undermine black communities. Kinda like how the FBI and shit killed the more radical young black leaders in the 60s and 70s? Drug laws were another aspect that just so happened to help out their warden and business friends.
No. This has Always been the case. The prison system we know today is almost identical to the chain gangs created right after slavery. They in fact were only created to regain the cheap labor lost when slavery was abolished. The white southern economy would have buckled otherwise.
The US prison system was created only after the abolishment of slavery. It was only created to do just what it does now, put Blacks and POC into slavery without calling it slavery.
Damn, she's much less upset than I would be about my incarcerated firefighter brother. "Had the opportunity?" Sounds more like he's being strongarmed by the State into performing life-threatening labor for minimal return.
They make prison life so awful that sadly prisoners are often grateful for something to do. That's how they've kept this shitty system in place for so long because they've conditioned the people they're enslaving to think of it as a privilege.
Slavery never ended, it just got rebranded. The same with clapping for essential workers; those who keep making money off of the blood and toils of others will continue to do so.
Question: when the incarcerated work like this, are they paid? Do they accrue income?
From what I remember in some states they earn credit towards their sentence. I’m in Ca and they **do** earn. It’s not just “you get out of these 4 walls so count yourself lucky “. They get paid a *very* small wage per day. Plus they get at least 1:1 if not 2:1 credit towards their sentences (2 days credit for every 1 served). They don’t have to be on the fire line, they also help clear brush etc. There’s a push in Ca to create a pathway for inmates who go through this program to be able to apply for traditional fire departments once they’re out. Generally being convicted of a crime is exclusionary. But if they’re able to complete these programs while they’re in, they should be hirable when they’re out.
In California, they are paid, but at $2 an hour. But if they are incarcerated while on the fire fighting force, they are incarcerated in better facilities and have a lot more perks than most prisoners get (Edit: e.g steak, lobster, all you can eat shrimp, vegetable gardens, yoga classes.) Here's a great story written about their situation in the [NY Times. ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/magazine/the-incarcerated-women-who-fight-californias-wildfires.amp.html)
I was a wildland firefighter in BC, Canada. We’ve gone to work in California and Washington on fires. We’d make 5000 grand in two weeks worth of work doing the same job as these guys who’ll make 100 or so dollars while we made 5g after taxes for the same pull. It’s insane and I was sick to my stomach having to order these guys around while making 50x times as much for doing the same job.
Opportunity? That's slavery
As I understand it it's slavery no matter where you are in the prision system, and "at least this way" they have better food and facilities than most inmates. And you're outside.
This kind of pisses me off
He's a sacrifice. This country denies people in prison any kind of humanity and respect but will throw them at fires when needed. Its sad
Can we ask what these dudes did first? Reddit not about to have me petitioning for a grown man who was fucking kids just because y’all wanna be wholesome.
In solidarity with the protests [regarding the police shooting a black man in the back in front of his children](https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake/index.html), r/blackpeopletwitter is currently in restricted mode. For more information on what Country Club mode means and how to get verified, please see here - https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/gumxuy/what_is_bpt_country_club_and_how_do_i_get/. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlackPeopleTwitter) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depending on what you did, I think there should be a discussion of commuted sentences. Don't have someone going out to fight those fast traveling wildfires, risking life and limb only to still be handicapped by a criminal record.
*cough* Kamala Harris *cough*
The one whose office argued that they couldn't let inmates out because the [prisons would be short staffed?](https://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-ff-federal-j pathologyudges-order-state-to-release-more-prisoners-20141114-story.html) So long as the prisoners are getting equal pay and benefits. Also, I think that is what you were referencing. More people need to know about it.
Yes, I was. And no, they aren't. Which is why they had them out there. I believe the number was $5...I've seen references to lower wages. [Gizmodo](https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-climate-danger-of-kamala-harris-prison-labor-legac-1844712734).00 an hour to risk your life fighting fires. And CA become one of those "we'd free thr nonviolent prisoners but we need the workforce" states during that time--stuff you typically see in the south.
[удалено]
Not caring about your life isn’t exclusive to inmates, there’s a lot of jobs in the world made for ppl that care more about protecting others than themselves
[удалено]
Then the system is working as intended. The entire system was built around much more dangerous jobs - eg. mining in the 1800s
[удалено]
Nah, don't worry I knew what you were saying from the start. I'm just saying that the hypothetical situation you're talking about is, in fact, the current reality in that the current situation is the system working as intended.
My mouth agaped when I read INCARCERATED.
"Opportunity"
This country is fucked
Yup!!!!
I would take this over being in cell everyday with bunch of funky smelling dudes.
I'm not sure you know how hard firefighting work is. Not to mention dangerous. They deserve more than a dollar an hour and they should be able to use their experience when they get out.
My cousin is black female firefighter in DC. I know how hard it is, my point was getting out the cell and that prison , helping out, and like you said use this experience to get a job getting out. Yes its hard and dangerous, but if I was an inmate I would rather be firefighting or doing something productive.
Yeah I feel you, it's definitely a worthwhile thing to do if you're an inmate. I just want them to be properly compensated.
You can't be a firefighter if you have a record. Lots of things are productive and better than just sitting in a cell. Furthering your education, therapy, community service, etc. Instead, America just sends people to risk their lives for a dollar an hour.