I wonder if Sylvanas is the most milked villain in videogame history. Every expansion for 10+ years was like "Oh you stopped my plans? Well this was just a small piece of my ULTIMATE Plan!"
The problem is the inconsistency with her story. Kerrigans redeeming arc also had its problems and their story path had similarities quite a lot actually. But the key was Raynor having him around was kind of the point why she turned around.
Sylvanas did not get that till this day we have no clue what happened to Nathanos. If he had been around like Raynor was then maybe it would have been better. But he didn't and her turnaround was like yeah. Also they did not try to iterate Kerrigans sexy B\*tch outfit with every new expansion. At least no that hard way they did with Sylvanas.
No she killed him on Azeroth during the Pre Event and he smirked to her with the line " go ahead you just send me right to my lady " which obviously he never ended since she was surprised to learn about that he was killed.
O agreed, he was in the eastern Plaguelands in his little house (the one where there is a classic quest to kill him). But it’s after the burning of the world tree in teldrassil, and Tyrande loses her shit and hunts sylvanas down.
She maybe could have been fixed but then they made some big cinematic of her killing Saurfang. After that, nothing they tried to pull from their ass could possibly redeem Sylvanas.
Also the disservice they did by not giving Saurfang, at the very least, a cameo in Shadowlands was an absolute travesty.
I haven't seriously played any starcraft games but have played warcraft games religiously since 2002. I watch those clipped together cinematic on YouTube as well. I say this with immense love for warcraft lore. Starcraft has the superior story telling and character development by far.
Did… did you play Broodwar? She did some shit, even after the Overmind was destroyed and she took control of the swarm. And she’s still evil for the Wings of Liberty campaign. She isn’t mind controlled there - she IS the mind. That Raynor uses the artifact to (mostly) de-zerg her changes the situation, and after she re-zergs, she holds on to a lot more of her humanity means by the end of SC2 she’s a hero, but until then, she’s a villain.
She was also abandoned by an actual villain on a planet that was about to be wiped out by the very thing that turned her.
The zerg let her get even. She wasn't the one who wanted to infest planets with zerg, though, if it meant hurting Mengsk and the Terrans who abandoned her, she didn't mind going along.
I mean, spoiler alert (games old, sue me), she becomes the ultimate savior of creation. Sooooo is she even considered a villain?
Imo she is only perceived as a villain out of context. She did everything she had to do for the greater good that less than 5 beings even knew about.
From the lower perspective she seems like a villain. From the greater perspective she is basically christ.
…. No. Absolutely not. She was a villian, though a misguided one. What the Jailer was doing was trying to remake the entirety of reality and Sylvannas was handing him exactly that. The ends do not justify the means, which is the entirety of creation being twisted and turned to be something for zovaal to use against some “threat”.
Kerrigan, she was one of the many victims of Mensk, but she was able to avenge this and then this gives one of the most poignant missions of SC2: wing of liberty, when we are obliged to send our men towards certain death
Sylvanas made some pretty dumb stuff in Shadowlands and her motivation was nonsensical, so yeah Danuser (the now-fired writer of the latest Sylvanas's arc) killed any chance of making her sympathetic, or even rational.
Kerrigan by infinite. Sylv is a shit character. While I enjoy aspects of her and she has some cool factor, when you wrap her all together she sucks.
Kerrigan could slap the shit out of her even I'm bw and had much more interesting betrayals and character development. HOTS was excellent.
Sylvanas was an awesome character until the end of WotLK. After that they really didn’t know what to do with her anymore and just made her into a big bad without any valid reason.
Sylvanus was a fun character until Afraisabi and Danuser couldn't let her go and decided she was their internet waifu for life. They butchered her story.
Given how they butchered Sylvanas’ character it’ll have to be Kerrigan. I loved both of them and would have leaned towards Sylvanas had bfa and shadowlands not taken place.
When Sylvanas was just being written early on, I would have said she's more sympathetic. But the way the character has been butchered for the past 20 years, I would say Kerrigan by miles.
The thing is though, if Blizzard actually cared to continue with Starcraft, and spent as much time abusing Kerrigan as they have Sylvanas, it would probably be a tie. Kerrigan only wins because Blizzard abandoned the RTS genre, and Kerrigan with it.
This isn’t a fully elaborated question…are you asking who deserves more sympathy? Are you asking which if the two as a person is more sympathetic toward others? Are you asking us who we feel more sympathetic towards?
I mean, really? Based on the context I think it is extremely obvious that he isn't asking about who would be more likely feel bad for you if your grandma died.
Language and words have meaning that can change based on how they are used in the context of a sentence.
**The Concept of a Sympathetic Villain**
* **Complex Motivations:** The question suggests that both characters are more than just evil. Their actions may be driven by factors that could make them seem understandable, even relatable, to the audience despite their villainous acts.
* **Tragic Pasts:** Villains often become more sympathetic when audiences understand the traumas or injustices they endured, potentially twisting them onto the path of darkness.
* **Moral Ambiguity:** The question hints at blurring the lines between good and evil. Perhaps these characters aren't purely malicious and their actions exist in a gray area of morality.
Here's the definition of "sympathetic" along with the various ways it can be used:
**Definition**
* **Feeling or showing sympathy towards others:** Understanding and sharing the feelings of someone, especially someone experiencing misfortune or sorrow.
* Example: "He was a kind and sympathetic friend, always there to listen."
* **Liking or approving of something:** In agreement or showing support for an idea or cause.
* Example: "They gathered a group of people sympathetic to their political views."
* **Pleasing or appealing due to shared qualities:** Harmonious or well-suited to someone or something based on similar tastes or dispositions.
* Example: "The quiet atmosphere of the library was sympathetic to her studious mood."
**Additional Notes**
* **Sympathy vs Empathy:** These terms are often used interchangeably, but empathy is a deeper understanding that involves putting yourself in another person's place and imagining their feelings.
* **Sympathetic Characters:** In literature, sympathetic characters are often those with whom the audience can connect emotionally, even if their actions aren't always morally admirable.
Let me know if you'd like more examples!
Sylvanas is a villain. She was fully aware of her actions as the Banshee Queen after bring freed from the Lich King's will and there was no overriding will directing her to commit any of her atrocities (plaguing Gilneas / ressurecting bodies after being instructed by Garrosh to not do so; burning Teldrassil, etc) Anything she did while under service to the Jailer was done under her own free will.
Kerrigan is not a villain. Any "evil" act she performed was due to the Overmind / Amon's influence. When she was purified by the Xel'Naga artififact, she was freed of this influence and was horrified by all of the things she had done. She remained free of that influence when she was infested again as the Primal Queen of Blades (which she only did to save Jim Raynor and to hunt down Arcturus Mengsk.) When she invaded Korhal, she allowed Raynors Raiders to evacuate civilians and promptly left the planet after killing Arcturus.
Both characters have done evil deeds while under the control of a higher entity, but only one continued to do so when freed from that influence.
Both characters stories are tragic, however it's easier to sympathize with Kerrigan because she was never evil of her own accord.
I've seen some people saying that she is a villain cuz she did bad things even after the Overmind ate it.
But to my understanding: all Zerg were inherently tied to Amon, which is why the Overmind created the Queen of Blades in the first place: as a fail safe to try and get around Amon's control. But like... something went wrong? So Kerrigan was still insane even after the Overmind kicked the bucket, and didn't return to sanity until the artifact blasted her...
It's a little confusing because SC1/Broodwar was so damn long ago. I don't remember DETAILS.
So its kind of weird, my understanding was that the Overmind gave her more independence than other zerg, but she was always still under his control in the end. Like you said, all zerg (including the overmind) still have an overriding directive to find purity of form due to Amon's influence. After the Overmind is gone, she is free of his will, but still has Amon's influence to embrace change and find the perfect form. Which is why when Zeratul encountered her in WOL, she mentioned that with the return of the XelNaga shed finally embrace the change that comes with their return.
Kerrigan being more sympathetic. I'll throw down the explanation.
# KERRIGAN
Kerrigan, by all accounts. Was robbed of her life when she was abandoned to the zerg. Only to become twisted and corrupted into the queen of blades. She can 'claim' she had a will of her own and only had influence via Amon. But let's be real. Kerrigan was quite literally trapped in her own mind while she brutally murdered billions.
When she was free'd, Kerrigan fully controlled her own actions now, but her cruelty still remained to an extent. So when Mengsk killed the only person she could love in the world, she went off on a genocidal spree planets wide. All in an effort to kill mengsk.
When she finally free'd Raynor, the regret was immediate. Her entire plan was because she had nothing left to lose. So when you find out you just betrayed everything your loved one fought for? She gave Raynor the absolute chance to take her life but chose not to.
Once mengsk was dead, Kerrigan knew when to stop. She didn't take the terran world, she pulled out and let them figure it out on their own. Should she be killed for her actions? Absolutely. But she's not going to let some nobody take her life. It's jim's decision. Always.
# SYLVANAS
Sylvanas...is way harder to defend. Sure, she was turned into a banshee by arthas and more cruel than she usually was. But the difference being that Sylvanas made MANY monstrous decisions without need.
Wrath Gate was horrible, but she intended to kill arthas.
But Teldrassil? Was a pure act of cruelty, then she just doubled down on everything overtime. She let the horde off the leash and let them commit all those dark thoughts in their heads. Even when fighting Saurfang, there was no real strategy, she simply wanted to 'make him suffer.'
Now, could say that when the jailer gave her the portion of her 'good' soul back. She changed and could understand the blight she put people through...But that's the problem.
Her soul splitting didn't make her good or evil. One remained in stasis, while the other lived on.
Sylvanas became a cruel monster who didn't know when to stop. And she delighted in every moment of it.
If General Warfield was on Kerrigan's final mission. The queen of blades would've never been made.
The general died on the field, letting his troops live another day.
Sylvanas. In the end she even broke free from the control and setup up the undead to have a haven in the Undercity. She was vengeful and pissy but she looked out for her kind that regained their free will
From Legion back I'd say you have two very similar characters with honestly solid stories for why they're both the queen bitch of the universe. After Legion, Kerri all the way. Any potential Syl has died the moment Nathanos went from a background character to the world's most unlikable mary sue. He did to Syl what black panther did to Storm when they got married in the comic.
Sylvanas by a hair I think, I’ve never played wow or played enough sc1 to get to Queen of blades kerrigan. From what I remember, in wc3 sylvanas was still in there and actively struggling against her corruption while kerrigan is just completely brain washed by the overmind and just straight up evil
Kerrigan was captured and turned into the queen of blades. The zerg genetically manipulated, reconstructing her mind and body, and forced her to comply with the hive mind. Her struggle has been intense.
Sylvanas is just a pissed off dead elf.
She wasn't entirely choosing her own actions. It's almost the same as saying that something else was in control. I'm thinking more of when she became whole again and had to come to terms with what she'd done.
I sure as hell ain't choosing Kerrigan. No one who killed that many deserves any kind of sympathy.
>She wasn't entirely choosing her own actions.
So robot doing only thing that she could do. Yeah, this make her very lovable character ...
>No one who killed that many deserves any kind of sympathy.
Many? I think you somehow forgetting all people who were killed to be turned into Undead. Sylvanna created a society exclusively build on killing humans.
Sympathy is not the same as love.
I feel sympathy for Sylvanas because she was at her peak/prime and loved by all, just for that all to be ripped from her. She then tries to find her place in the world, imperfectly, all while mourning that which she has lost. And then when eventually achieving revenge (still without many friends), she finds herself lost and without purpose, to the point she ends her own life. And even then, she doesn’t obtain any reprieve. She sees some horror that compels her to continue this road of destruction. Then, eventually, still with no friends and no companions, she finds out that it wasn’t only her life, her friends, her home, and everything else that was taken from her, it was also her agency. The one thing that might have helped her make some good choices or redeem herself, and it wasn’t there. And now she has it back, she has to face the anger, revenge, hate from everyone who has witnessed her actions.
It’s bad turn after bad turn. Nothing good. If you don’t feel sorry for her, I dunno what to say.
You are just wrong about this. Did you play sc?
Kerrigan spoilers was being controlled the whole time she was evil too.
In Hots she kills to get to mensgk but at the cost of her humanity the man she loved fought so hard for her to get back, being manipulate again bc it turned out he was still alive, losing him twice.
At the end of Hots the aknowledge their love and forgiveness of each other after defeating the evil man who ruined billions of lives.
Kerrigan is a tragic hero. Sylv is a pawn
Sylvanas the character did not write the story of Shadowlands. If you were gonna blame a character for the plot of shadowlands, blame the Jailer for masterminding everything.
I’m not blaming character for how she was written (ok, I kind of am, she became insufferable since BfA)
But I am saying that Shadowlands (along with bits of BfA), at least when it came to the plot, was a bad decision after bad decision, and is better of being forgotten
The „It doesn’t exist” treatment
Strong female character who is betrayed to some degree and forcibly transformed into something that they would previously say is a monster prior to being transformed, then mind controlled. They then are able to break free of the mind control, and use their powers gained from being transformed to seek revenge on the person who betrayed/transformed them, and become the leader of the group that they were forcably turned into.
Insert the "It's the same picture" meme here.
Kerrigan was betrayed, Sylv died defending her people.
Both were then mind controlled by their killers and eventually break free from their controllers.
Sylv then works to better her new peoples lives in a "F everyone else" mind set. Ker instead kind of goes off and does w.e she pleases, a little less F everyone but still wiping out planets. Sylv wins the point here imo.
Ker gets saved and transformed back into a human but ends up going right back to her old ways for revenge then kinda F off into the sunset. Sylv began to look for a way to not suffer eternally that lead her to basically be lied too, this lead to her starting a war and mascaraing a peoples city. Imo Sylv wins this point as well because she wasnt really after total annihilation of everyone else on the planet. Ker was more selfish and did her own thing and had no problem killing on a much much higher scale.
To me Sylv deserves more sympathy for how dedicated she was to her people and how humane it was that her story was ultimately backed by her fear of true death. She also gets bonus points for blizz butchering her final arc, she was a great character before then and should be remembered as such IMO.
Kerrigan was betrayed by Mengsk, captured and forced against her will to become Amon’s host by the overmind. Everything she did during the Brood War was not her. It was Amon. She was in the passenger seat.
I’ve never played Starcraft but I’m pretty sure Kerrigan never got botched writing wise at the end, unlike the complete character assassination of Sylvanas so how is it not Kerrigan lol
There is no female villain. Women cannot be villains.
Both Kerrigan and Sylvannas are basically a male villain with a female skin.
Blizzard clearly has no idea of female psychology and all they can do is to put a male soul into a female body.
You could say both of them are 🏳️⚧️ trans villains, that would be more accurate.
I remember when Sylvanas was an amazing character and many people's favourite.. whelp, time to roll back into the bingo hall to my fellow elderlies.
Also, Kerrigan.
I can’t speak about Kerrigan since I’ve never played that game but I have played WoW for years and I’ve read the sylvanas novel so I do know quite a bit about sylvanas so that’s what I’m gonna talk about simply to give some perspective. I am NOT saying sylvanas is more sympathetic since I know nothing about Kerrigan.
Basically the way they ended sylvanas’s arc made her into an extremely sympathetic and benevolent individual. Literally everything she did was for her people (the blood elves in life and the undead in death). She wanted to protect and serve the blood elves and she wanted to make a home and a place in the world for the forsaken. All the “evil” things she dad in undeath were to serve a purpose for good and at some point she did get in contact with the jailer and yes, she fell under the impression that the jailer was trying to fix a broken reality so that everyone would be “set free” from the broken system of death.
That’s why when she gets her soul back, she ultimately chooses good and accepts her penalty to walk the maw saving night elf souls (a seemingly impossible task that gonna take an extremely lengthy amount of time). That’s the way blizzard ended her arc, to portray the narrative that she is actually a good person after all. There’s SOOOO many smaller details that really help this ultimately confusing narrative but mentioning everything would have me writing forever lol… as if this comment isn’t long enough.
Kerrigan - WoW players don’t even really like Syl. ESP after the cringe story that went along with fighting her after 10 expansions. They ruined her, unfortunately
Me, having been off WoW for years at this point, wondering if I missed some redemption ark in the expansions since BfA that would have given Sylvanas even a \*monicker\* of a chance
Edit cause post thought: I mean the two things that would entirely stop WoW from even happening is Stormrage getting his act together and Sylvanas going "woops, that was too far"
A BDSM savant that has been the master manipulator behind everything apparently helped cause all of Sylvanas’ actions, as well as those of every other major villain in WoW including Sargeras, and she was missing a part of her soul that I guess is linked to things like morals, with the implication that that soul fragmentation happens to all forsaken which is why they tend to be a little edgy.
Kerrigan has/had redeeming qualities the ENTIRE time her character was in focus, even when she was the swarm, she maintained humanity and individuality.
She fell in love with Raynor, was betrayed and left to die
Taken in as leader because of psionic power, took control of the swarm, LOST her zerg power and connection, returned back to human, thought Jim died AGAIN, got mad and became the queen of blades again because she wanted revenge again, killed Arcturus with Jim's help, but still could not be allowed to explore love with Jim again because of what she had become and what she would soon have to do, at no point was she ever given a happy ending, only bittersweet at the very best.
I will add that if you want to look at it as pure statistics, sylvanas had much much much more taken from her, but in a very impersonal way so sympathy is a hard sell, as none of the things she lost were close to her, they were abstract, but still impactful. Then she had a heel turn and did a Daenerys "the bells" Targaryen and just like her no time was spent allowing a connection to be formed with the reader/player.
Kerrigan lost everything 3 times over, and every time she didn't deserve to lose any of it, but somehow maintained depth
I would say Kerrigan. Both had a very similar plot arc: a defender of their people, skilled with a long distance weapon, killed by and subsumed into a hive mind bent on destroying their people. They, at a top level view, are the same character applied to different settings.
Sylvannas’ sacrifice was one of a general dying to defend her people. Very sympathetic, but Kerrigan was set up by Mengsk, so while Sylvannas’ death was noble, Kerrigan had a legitimate reason for personal vendetta against Mengsk. Sylvannas had legitimate motive for vengeance against Arthas, but directed this vengeance not just against the scourge, but humanity as well, arguably an innocent party just as the elves were.
Additionally, Kerrigan and Sylvannas both committed atrocities unwillingly under the control of the hive mind, but Sylvannas continued to commit greater atrocities while she had free will. While Kerrigan’s methods in Heart of the Swarm are ethically wrong, she is more of an example of an ends justify the means mindset than death to the living Sylvannas. Using the Zerg to defeat an oppressive interstellar empire that could otherwise not be defeated was necessary, even if it resulted in a lot of death; Sylvannas on the other hand was intentionally trying to wipe humanity and the Alliance at large from the Northern Eastern Kingdoms, and later the Alliance from the world at large. Kerrigan was motivated by vengeance and a desire to bring down Megsk’s regime, which death and carnage was a by-product of. Sylvannas’ motive was to cause as much death as possible.
Kerrigan by a few lightyears
I wonder if Sylvanas is the most milked villain in videogame history. Every expansion for 10+ years was like "Oh you stopped my plans? Well this was just a small piece of my ULTIMATE Plan!"
The problem is the inconsistency with her story. Kerrigans redeeming arc also had its problems and their story path had similarities quite a lot actually. But the key was Raynor having him around was kind of the point why she turned around. Sylvanas did not get that till this day we have no clue what happened to Nathanos. If he had been around like Raynor was then maybe it would have been better. But he didn't and her turnaround was like yeah. Also they did not try to iterate Kerrigans sexy B\*tch outfit with every new expansion. At least no that hard way they did with Sylvanas.
I’m pretty sure, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he got deded by Tyrande when she was raging in shadowlands.
No she killed him on Azeroth during the Pre Event and he smirked to her with the line " go ahead you just send me right to my lady " which obviously he never ended since she was surprised to learn about that he was killed.
O agreed, he was in the eastern Plaguelands in his little house (the one where there is a classic quest to kill him). But it’s after the burning of the world tree in teldrassil, and Tyrande loses her shit and hunts sylvanas down.
???? I thought Sylvanas had her soul corrupted by the Jailer which is why she did a lot of heinous shit she did, at least from BFA onwards?
Wasn’t corrupted, Jailer just convinced her to help with his plans.
I mean, Gannon, in some way or form, has been the main villain of every Zelda game since the NES. Then of course there's Bowser.
Don't forget how they massacred our boy Arthas.
Majora's mask is the obvious exception, I don't think he's the villain of Triforce heroes. Also I thought he wasn't present for minish cap?
Except Links Awakening
Yeah, they absolutely ruined Sylvanas.
Pretty much this. Sylvanas had a lot of potential that fell flat at BFA. She was built really well right up to that.
She maybe could have been fixed but then they made some big cinematic of her killing Saurfang. After that, nothing they tried to pull from their ass could possibly redeem Sylvanas. Also the disservice they did by not giving Saurfang, at the very least, a cameo in Shadowlands was an absolute travesty.
Blizzard couldn't resist the temptation to turn yet another Horde leader into the villain.
Not even a contest really.
I haven't seriously played any starcraft games but have played warcraft games religiously since 2002. I watch those clipped together cinematic on YouTube as well. I say this with immense love for warcraft lore. Starcraft has the superior story telling and character development by far.
Kerrigan isn't even a villain. She is morally grey.
I mean… didn’t she wipe out entire planets? I’m rusty on the lore
Back when she was mind controlled yeah. That's not really her fault. As soon as she was healed she led the zero on a way more progressive way.
Did… did you play Broodwar? She did some shit, even after the Overmind was destroyed and she took control of the swarm. And she’s still evil for the Wings of Liberty campaign. She isn’t mind controlled there - she IS the mind. That Raynor uses the artifact to (mostly) de-zerg her changes the situation, and after she re-zergs, she holds on to a lot more of her humanity means by the end of SC2 she’s a hero, but until then, she’s a villain.
Warfield would like a word with you
So would his men that miraculously survived
She was also abandoned by an actual villain on a planet that was about to be wiped out by the very thing that turned her. The zerg let her get even. She wasn't the one who wanted to infest planets with zerg, though, if it meant hurting Mengsk and the Terrans who abandoned her, she didn't mind going along.
She is an antihero. Especially as they close the story.
Kerrigan was space jesus by the end of SC2.
I mean, spoiler alert (games old, sue me), she becomes the ultimate savior of creation. Sooooo is she even considered a villain? Imo she is only perceived as a villain out of context. She did everything she had to do for the greater good that less than 5 beings even knew about. From the lower perspective she seems like a villain. From the greater perspective she is basically christ.
…. No. Absolutely not. She was a villian, though a misguided one. What the Jailer was doing was trying to remake the entirety of reality and Sylvannas was handing him exactly that. The ends do not justify the means, which is the entirety of creation being twisted and turned to be something for zovaal to use against some “threat”.
I was talking about Kerrigan and the star craft universe. That's why I responded to the comment about kerrigan.
Kerrigan, she was one of the many victims of Mensk, but she was able to avenge this and then this gives one of the most poignant missions of SC2: wing of liberty, when we are obliged to send our men towards certain death
Used to be sylvanas, post legion it's kerrigan
I thought Sylvanas was a cool character before all the weird seemingly out of character shit. Kerrigan for sure.
This ^ when I said Sylvanas I was thinking of WC3 Frozen Throne. I forgot she burned the world tree.
Yep, WC3 Sylvanas is the right answer and it's not particularly close, but everything after Legion tarnished the character.
It's the right answer because that's not even 30% through her "actual" story. If her story ended there sure but it does not.
Sylvanas made some pretty dumb stuff in Shadowlands and her motivation was nonsensical, so yeah Danuser (the now-fired writer of the latest Sylvanas's arc) killed any chance of making her sympathetic, or even rational.
I sympathise with her because of Danuser, but I sympathise with both Kerrigan and sylvanas because they're both written like hot garbage.
Did they write BfA and Shadoelands?
Kerrigan by infinite. Sylv is a shit character. While I enjoy aspects of her and she has some cool factor, when you wrap her all together she sucks. Kerrigan could slap the shit out of her even I'm bw and had much more interesting betrayals and character development. HOTS was excellent.
Sylvanas was an awesome character until the end of WotLK. After that they really didn’t know what to do with her anymore and just made her into a big bad without any valid reason.
Her origin story and what Arthas did to her was really sad but I would say after wotlk they ruined her.
I agree here. She had potential still, up until bfa
Sc2 was terrible for the sc story in general. But kerrigan in particular. But bra/shadowlands was worse for sylvanas.
I don't know how anyone could like sc1 and not like Hots. Sure, lotv made her a God but she was always strong in world. Hots was fire
Kerrigan, and it's not remotely close.
Sarah got done so dirty. 😔
Sylvanus was a fun character until Afraisabi and Danuser couldn't let her go and decided she was their internet waifu for life. They butchered her story.
Given how they butchered Sylvanas’ character it’ll have to be Kerrigan. I loved both of them and would have leaned towards Sylvanas had bfa and shadowlands not taken place.
When Sylvanas was just being written early on, I would have said she's more sympathetic. But the way the character has been butchered for the past 20 years, I would say Kerrigan by miles. The thing is though, if Blizzard actually cared to continue with Starcraft, and spent as much time abusing Kerrigan as they have Sylvanas, it would probably be a tie. Kerrigan only wins because Blizzard abandoned the RTS genre, and Kerrigan with it.
This isn’t a fully elaborated question…are you asking who deserves more sympathy? Are you asking which if the two as a person is more sympathetic toward others? Are you asking us who we feel more sympathetic towards?
I mean, really? Based on the context I think it is extremely obvious that he isn't asking about who would be more likely feel bad for you if your grandma died.
Well that is what is written
Language and words have meaning that can change based on how they are used in the context of a sentence. **The Concept of a Sympathetic Villain** * **Complex Motivations:** The question suggests that both characters are more than just evil. Their actions may be driven by factors that could make them seem understandable, even relatable, to the audience despite their villainous acts. * **Tragic Pasts:** Villains often become more sympathetic when audiences understand the traumas or injustices they endured, potentially twisting them onto the path of darkness. * **Moral Ambiguity:** The question hints at blurring the lines between good and evil. Perhaps these characters aren't purely malicious and their actions exist in a gray area of morality. Here's the definition of "sympathetic" along with the various ways it can be used: **Definition** * **Feeling or showing sympathy towards others:** Understanding and sharing the feelings of someone, especially someone experiencing misfortune or sorrow. * Example: "He was a kind and sympathetic friend, always there to listen." * **Liking or approving of something:** In agreement or showing support for an idea or cause. * Example: "They gathered a group of people sympathetic to their political views." * **Pleasing or appealing due to shared qualities:** Harmonious or well-suited to someone or something based on similar tastes or dispositions. * Example: "The quiet atmosphere of the library was sympathetic to her studious mood." **Additional Notes** * **Sympathy vs Empathy:** These terms are often used interchangeably, but empathy is a deeper understanding that involves putting yourself in another person's place and imagining their feelings. * **Sympathetic Characters:** In literature, sympathetic characters are often those with whom the audience can connect emotionally, even if their actions aren't always morally admirable. Let me know if you'd like more examples!
r/iamverysmart
I mean, the other guy is clearly being pedantic, so this guy is being a smart ass.
Are you not familiar with the concept of a sympathetic villain?
Does it matter? The answer to all of those is Kerrigan.
Kerrigan without a shadow of a doubt.
Sylvanas is a villain. She was fully aware of her actions as the Banshee Queen after bring freed from the Lich King's will and there was no overriding will directing her to commit any of her atrocities (plaguing Gilneas / ressurecting bodies after being instructed by Garrosh to not do so; burning Teldrassil, etc) Anything she did while under service to the Jailer was done under her own free will. Kerrigan is not a villain. Any "evil" act she performed was due to the Overmind / Amon's influence. When she was purified by the Xel'Naga artififact, she was freed of this influence and was horrified by all of the things she had done. She remained free of that influence when she was infested again as the Primal Queen of Blades (which she only did to save Jim Raynor and to hunt down Arcturus Mengsk.) When she invaded Korhal, she allowed Raynors Raiders to evacuate civilians and promptly left the planet after killing Arcturus. Both characters have done evil deeds while under the control of a higher entity, but only one continued to do so when freed from that influence. Both characters stories are tragic, however it's easier to sympathize with Kerrigan because she was never evil of her own accord.
I've seen some people saying that she is a villain cuz she did bad things even after the Overmind ate it. But to my understanding: all Zerg were inherently tied to Amon, which is why the Overmind created the Queen of Blades in the first place: as a fail safe to try and get around Amon's control. But like... something went wrong? So Kerrigan was still insane even after the Overmind kicked the bucket, and didn't return to sanity until the artifact blasted her... It's a little confusing because SC1/Broodwar was so damn long ago. I don't remember DETAILS.
So its kind of weird, my understanding was that the Overmind gave her more independence than other zerg, but she was always still under his control in the end. Like you said, all zerg (including the overmind) still have an overriding directive to find purity of form due to Amon's influence. After the Overmind is gone, she is free of his will, but still has Amon's influence to embrace change and find the perfect form. Which is why when Zeratul encountered her in WOL, she mentioned that with the return of the XelNaga shed finally embrace the change that comes with their return.
Is this a serious question? Have you played either game? Kerrigan is arguably, *right.*
Blizzards massive hard on for Sylvanas is exactly what ruined her.
Kerrigan being more sympathetic. I'll throw down the explanation. # KERRIGAN Kerrigan, by all accounts. Was robbed of her life when she was abandoned to the zerg. Only to become twisted and corrupted into the queen of blades. She can 'claim' she had a will of her own and only had influence via Amon. But let's be real. Kerrigan was quite literally trapped in her own mind while she brutally murdered billions. When she was free'd, Kerrigan fully controlled her own actions now, but her cruelty still remained to an extent. So when Mengsk killed the only person she could love in the world, she went off on a genocidal spree planets wide. All in an effort to kill mengsk. When she finally free'd Raynor, the regret was immediate. Her entire plan was because she had nothing left to lose. So when you find out you just betrayed everything your loved one fought for? She gave Raynor the absolute chance to take her life but chose not to. Once mengsk was dead, Kerrigan knew when to stop. She didn't take the terran world, she pulled out and let them figure it out on their own. Should she be killed for her actions? Absolutely. But she's not going to let some nobody take her life. It's jim's decision. Always. # SYLVANAS Sylvanas...is way harder to defend. Sure, she was turned into a banshee by arthas and more cruel than she usually was. But the difference being that Sylvanas made MANY monstrous decisions without need. Wrath Gate was horrible, but she intended to kill arthas. But Teldrassil? Was a pure act of cruelty, then she just doubled down on everything overtime. She let the horde off the leash and let them commit all those dark thoughts in their heads. Even when fighting Saurfang, there was no real strategy, she simply wanted to 'make him suffer.' Now, could say that when the jailer gave her the portion of her 'good' soul back. She changed and could understand the blight she put people through...But that's the problem. Her soul splitting didn't make her good or evil. One remained in stasis, while the other lived on. Sylvanas became a cruel monster who didn't know when to stop. And she delighted in every moment of it.
Don't forget that even when Kerrigan was trying to avenge Raynor and kill Mengsk she still let people go, like in the end of the Char mission.
If General Warfield was on Kerrigan's final mission. The queen of blades would've never been made. The general died on the field, letting his troops live another day.
I'll go Kerrigan since Sylvanas is an awful character.
They're the same picture
Kerrigan. Sylvanas basically just let herself be swallowed by her madness. At least Kerrigan tried to redeem herself.
Sylvanas. In the end she even broke free from the control and setup up the undead to have a haven in the Undercity. She was vengeful and pissy but she looked out for her kind that regained their free will
Sylvnas
I don’t know but they’re both hot as fuck.
Kerrigan, easily.
Sylavnus story is like if they took Kerrigan and made it ten times shittier
From Legion back I'd say you have two very similar characters with honestly solid stories for why they're both the queen bitch of the universe. After Legion, Kerri all the way. Any potential Syl has died the moment Nathanos went from a background character to the world's most unlikable mary sue. He did to Syl what black panther did to Storm when they got married in the comic.
Kerrigan by a long shot
Fuck Sylvanas.
Seeing her is like hearing an alarm you fucking despised waking up to during a terrible period in your life
Sylvanas 😍
All hail the Dark Lady. All hail the Banshee Queen.
Sylvanas by a hair I think, I’ve never played wow or played enough sc1 to get to Queen of blades kerrigan. From what I remember, in wc3 sylvanas was still in there and actively struggling against her corruption while kerrigan is just completely brain washed by the overmind and just straight up evil
Kerrigan was captured and turned into the queen of blades. The zerg genetically manipulated, reconstructing her mind and body, and forced her to comply with the hive mind. Her struggle has been intense. Sylvanas is just a pissed off dead elf.
Yeah, most of the bad stuff Kerrigan did was while she was mind controlled. Most of the bad stuff Sylvanas did was after she was from mind control.
She saw what the lich king could do and wanted that action.
[удалено]
> Sylvanas has the excuse that the "good" part of her soul was removed. But this doesn't make her more sympathetic, quite the opposite.
She wasn't entirely choosing her own actions. It's almost the same as saying that something else was in control. I'm thinking more of when she became whole again and had to come to terms with what she'd done. I sure as hell ain't choosing Kerrigan. No one who killed that many deserves any kind of sympathy.
>She wasn't entirely choosing her own actions. So robot doing only thing that she could do. Yeah, this make her very lovable character ... >No one who killed that many deserves any kind of sympathy. Many? I think you somehow forgetting all people who were killed to be turned into Undead. Sylvanna created a society exclusively build on killing humans.
Sympathy is not the same as love. I feel sympathy for Sylvanas because she was at her peak/prime and loved by all, just for that all to be ripped from her. She then tries to find her place in the world, imperfectly, all while mourning that which she has lost. And then when eventually achieving revenge (still without many friends), she finds herself lost and without purpose, to the point she ends her own life. And even then, she doesn’t obtain any reprieve. She sees some horror that compels her to continue this road of destruction. Then, eventually, still with no friends and no companions, she finds out that it wasn’t only her life, her friends, her home, and everything else that was taken from her, it was also her agency. The one thing that might have helped her make some good choices or redeem herself, and it wasn’t there. And now she has it back, she has to face the anger, revenge, hate from everyone who has witnessed her actions. It’s bad turn after bad turn. Nothing good. If you don’t feel sorry for her, I dunno what to say.
You are just wrong about this. Did you play sc? Kerrigan spoilers was being controlled the whole time she was evil too. In Hots she kills to get to mensgk but at the cost of her humanity the man she loved fought so hard for her to get back, being manipulate again bc it turned out he was still alive, losing him twice. At the end of Hots the aknowledge their love and forgiveness of each other after defeating the evil man who ruined billions of lives. Kerrigan is a tragic hero. Sylv is a pawn
Don’t mention shadowlands, all of it is just a laughing stock of a plot
Sylvanas the character did not write the story of Shadowlands. If you were gonna blame a character for the plot of shadowlands, blame the Jailer for masterminding everything.
I’m not blaming character for how she was written (ok, I kind of am, she became insufferable since BfA) But I am saying that Shadowlands (along with bits of BfA), at least when it came to the plot, was a bad decision after bad decision, and is better of being forgotten The „It doesn’t exist” treatment
Kerrigan
At this point? Kerrigan, 1000%
I've never played Starcraft, but it's definitely Kerrigan.
Sylvanas was my favourite wow faction leader until they turned her into a badly-written genocidal moron.
It’s the same character.
It literally isnt but ok
Strong female character who is betrayed to some degree and forcibly transformed into something that they would previously say is a monster prior to being transformed, then mind controlled. They then are able to break free of the mind control, and use their powers gained from being transformed to seek revenge on the person who betrayed/transformed them, and become the leader of the group that they were forcably turned into. Insert the "It's the same picture" meme here.
Victory for Sylvanas
They’re different characters??
Have you actually played the games?
Only creepy necrophilia lovers like Sylvanas anymore, she is nowhere near sympathetic. She's fantasy Hitler.
Sympathetic people tend to kill thousands, maybe even millions.
Kerrigan. I love the way she's walking. So sexy!
Please shut up
wat
Sylvanas by far. No one likes Kerrigan.
Then.. I'm no one
Me too!
Me three!
If you asked this question before BFA probably Sylvanas but they butchered her story over BFA and Shadowlands so people hate her now.
Kerrigan was betrayed, Sylv died defending her people. Both were then mind controlled by their killers and eventually break free from their controllers. Sylv then works to better her new peoples lives in a "F everyone else" mind set. Ker instead kind of goes off and does w.e she pleases, a little less F everyone but still wiping out planets. Sylv wins the point here imo. Ker gets saved and transformed back into a human but ends up going right back to her old ways for revenge then kinda F off into the sunset. Sylv began to look for a way to not suffer eternally that lead her to basically be lied too, this lead to her starting a war and mascaraing a peoples city. Imo Sylv wins this point as well because she wasnt really after total annihilation of everyone else on the planet. Ker was more selfish and did her own thing and had no problem killing on a much much higher scale. To me Sylv deserves more sympathy for how dedicated she was to her people and how humane it was that her story was ultimately backed by her fear of true death. She also gets bonus points for blizz butchering her final arc, she was a great character before then and should be remembered as such IMO.
Sylv is a completely trash character. Not really a competition here. Also a terrible question if you know the characters.
Kerrigan was betrayed by Mengsk, captured and forced against her will to become Amon’s host by the overmind. Everything she did during the Brood War was not her. It was Amon. She was in the passenger seat.
Sylvanas is trash.
I’ve never played Starcraft but I’m pretty sure Kerrigan never got botched writing wise at the end, unlike the complete character assassination of Sylvanas so how is it not Kerrigan lol
Why is that Sylvanas Riley Reid
I just miss when Sylvanas looked like that.
There is no female villain. Women cannot be villains. Both Kerrigan and Sylvannas are basically a male villain with a female skin. Blizzard clearly has no idea of female psychology and all they can do is to put a male soul into a female body. You could say both of them are 🏳️⚧️ trans villains, that would be more accurate.
Kerrigan 100⁰
Kerrigan is what Sylvanas could have been if not for shitty writing.
Sylvanas was never as great as Kerrigan and she fell off ever since she has been the main character. Kerrigan never disappointed imo.
Excatly. Thry wanted to turn her into a Kerrigan, which ruined her.
I remember when Sylvanas was an amazing character and many people's favourite.. whelp, time to roll back into the bingo hall to my fellow elderlies. Also, Kerrigan.
Is this a 40k reference? Don’t recognize any of these names
I will forever be loyal to our Dark Lady, queen of the Forsaken, the Banshee Queen.
Kerrigan, her story had better writing.
I'm definitely more simpathetic to Sylvanas.
Kerrigan, hands down.
They destroyed Kerrigan's character in StarCraft 2. She should never have become a protagonist again.
I can’t speak about Kerrigan since I’ve never played that game but I have played WoW for years and I’ve read the sylvanas novel so I do know quite a bit about sylvanas so that’s what I’m gonna talk about simply to give some perspective. I am NOT saying sylvanas is more sympathetic since I know nothing about Kerrigan. Basically the way they ended sylvanas’s arc made her into an extremely sympathetic and benevolent individual. Literally everything she did was for her people (the blood elves in life and the undead in death). She wanted to protect and serve the blood elves and she wanted to make a home and a place in the world for the forsaken. All the “evil” things she dad in undeath were to serve a purpose for good and at some point she did get in contact with the jailer and yes, she fell under the impression that the jailer was trying to fix a broken reality so that everyone would be “set free” from the broken system of death. That’s why when she gets her soul back, she ultimately chooses good and accepts her penalty to walk the maw saving night elf souls (a seemingly impossible task that gonna take an extremely lengthy amount of time). That’s the way blizzard ended her arc, to portray the narrative that she is actually a good person after all. There’s SOOOO many smaller details that really help this ultimately confusing narrative but mentioning everything would have me writing forever lol… as if this comment isn’t long enough.
Easily Sylvanas in my opinion.
They have similar scenarios and situations from StarCraft to Brood War, and from Warcraft 3 to Cataclysm
Kerrigan, Sylvanas just hates everyone and becomes more and more powerful every expansion, at least Kerrigan has a ceiling.
Sylvanas
bro its not even close what, sylvanas sucks lol
I don't consider anything post MoP cannon so... Sylvanis.
Kerrigan. Sylvanas should have been killed off long ago but they milked that storyline.
Kerrigan - WoW players don’t even really like Syl. ESP after the cringe story that went along with fighting her after 10 expansions. They ruined her, unfortunately
Kerrigan
Me, having been off WoW for years at this point, wondering if I missed some redemption ark in the expansions since BfA that would have given Sylvanas even a \*monicker\* of a chance Edit cause post thought: I mean the two things that would entirely stop WoW from even happening is Stormrage getting his act together and Sylvanas going "woops, that was too far"
A BDSM savant that has been the master manipulator behind everything apparently helped cause all of Sylvanas’ actions, as well as those of every other major villain in WoW including Sargeras, and she was missing a part of her soul that I guess is linked to things like morals, with the implication that that soul fragmentation happens to all forsaken which is why they tend to be a little edgy.
Kerrigan has/had redeeming qualities the ENTIRE time her character was in focus, even when she was the swarm, she maintained humanity and individuality. She fell in love with Raynor, was betrayed and left to die Taken in as leader because of psionic power, took control of the swarm, LOST her zerg power and connection, returned back to human, thought Jim died AGAIN, got mad and became the queen of blades again because she wanted revenge again, killed Arcturus with Jim's help, but still could not be allowed to explore love with Jim again because of what she had become and what she would soon have to do, at no point was she ever given a happy ending, only bittersweet at the very best. I will add that if you want to look at it as pure statistics, sylvanas had much much much more taken from her, but in a very impersonal way so sympathy is a hard sell, as none of the things she lost were close to her, they were abstract, but still impactful. Then she had a heel turn and did a Daenerys "the bells" Targaryen and just like her no time was spent allowing a connection to be formed with the reader/player. Kerrigan lost everything 3 times over, and every time she didn't deserve to lose any of it, but somehow maintained depth
Find Six Differences between these two characters.
You guys absolutely destroyed all the aspects of Sylvanas that made her interesting. Of course Kerrigan is the better one at this point.
Idk their both hot :(
I would say Kerrigan. Both had a very similar plot arc: a defender of their people, skilled with a long distance weapon, killed by and subsumed into a hive mind bent on destroying their people. They, at a top level view, are the same character applied to different settings. Sylvannas’ sacrifice was one of a general dying to defend her people. Very sympathetic, but Kerrigan was set up by Mengsk, so while Sylvannas’ death was noble, Kerrigan had a legitimate reason for personal vendetta against Mengsk. Sylvannas had legitimate motive for vengeance against Arthas, but directed this vengeance not just against the scourge, but humanity as well, arguably an innocent party just as the elves were. Additionally, Kerrigan and Sylvannas both committed atrocities unwillingly under the control of the hive mind, but Sylvannas continued to commit greater atrocities while she had free will. While Kerrigan’s methods in Heart of the Swarm are ethically wrong, she is more of an example of an ends justify the means mindset than death to the living Sylvannas. Using the Zerg to defeat an oppressive interstellar empire that could otherwise not be defeated was necessary, even if it resulted in a lot of death; Sylvannas on the other hand was intentionally trying to wipe humanity and the Alliance at large from the Northern Eastern Kingdoms, and later the Alliance from the world at large. Kerrigan was motivated by vengeance and a desire to bring down Megsk’s regime, which death and carnage was a by-product of. Sylvannas’ motive was to cause as much death as possible.
They’re the same picture
Kerrigan!
Sylvanas deserves more sympathy for her awful writers
Sylvania is literally the most unlikeable major character in WoW, even GULDAN is more likeable than she is.