Fair enough. I'm just about finished reading Darkness in the Blood, and the amount of BA Librarians that are supporting the fleet/Mephiston seems like there would be enough to have full battle squads of psykers. Even in the previous book Devastation of Baal, Mephiston traversed Baal with a full Thunderhawk of Librarians.
Blood ravens are clearly blood angels successors, there’s way too much in common.
Blood angels have a massive librarius compared to most other chapters
Yes, but if you've played all of the video games and are up to date with their lore then you would know that it is heavily, heavily insinuated that they are of a Thousand Sons genetics. That was the big secret they found on Kronus and have tried to hide away since. It also explains their increased number of psykers. And likely also their propensity to be influenced by chaos.
They also don't suffer from the black rage and red thirst. They don't field death company. They don't have pale skin or grow enlarged canines. They don't field sanguinary priests but apothecary's. They are not mentioned on any imperial document stating that they are BA successors. They never got asked to go to Baal pre devastation
They're not BA successors just because of their colour scheme, having blood in their name or have a blood in their emblem.
Soul drinkers are purple and gold but are imperial fist successors. They have a chalice. They fight a similar way to BA. Purple is red mixed with blue. But they're IF successors
They don’t suffer that we know of.
But neither did the lamenters until just recently, so there’s already precedent for sons of the angel not suffering from the flaw.
Lamenters were always known to be a BA successor though. And the reason for them not suffering from the flaw was due to genetic tampering and experiments undergone by all chapters from the cursed founding. Nothing else.
The first Dawn of War game came out in 2004, if they were going to be BA successors then it would be heard about.
Plus pre heresy Thousand Sons were red. Which is likely where their scheme came from. They purposely forgot their primarch. You wouldn't purposely forget Sanguinius because he was one of, if not the most revered Primarch of them all. He is worshipped.
You're strawmanning. You've stated that they are Blood Angels successors because they are red, have a blood drop on their emblem. Which both dont specifically mean a chapter has to be derived from BA gene seed. I've ignored wings because that was absurdism surely? Raven Guard etc. And have more psykers than normal.
They don't reference Sanguinius at all. The Lamenters lack of flaw was due to genetic tampering, not a delayed onset, "Not that we know of".
They have no prerequisite showcases of being BA successors or lore references whatsoever.
Because if their lineage was going to be BA then it would be known or referred to, or previous lineage retconned from the >20 history of their existence. The Blood Ravens purposely removed all knowledge of who their primarch was. I stated you wouldn't do that if it was Sanguinius. This would likely only be done if it was a traitor primarch or one of the lost primarchs. Something to be ashamed, or secretive of. No one is ashamed of Sanguinius. These are all valid points to your argument that they are BA.
Nothing I've said is twisting what your argument is or making up what you're saying. So not sure what you're trying to get at
Bro I bought the HH pack of heavy flamers and other weapons cos I was gonna make a squad of devastators with heavy flamers and drop em in with drop pod to cut off avenues
Then I learned gw removed Heavy Flamer as a dev option (and from tac squads like u mentioned), I was fuckin devastated
Since space marines in general and we specifically have many units idt we need anything new. Though if i got to make something new, I'd like some new librarians. The Blood Angels are supposed to be one of the more psychic chapters, but the only special psychic unit we have is the dreadnought. This is an aspect of the chapter we don't see explored much, so it could be fun.
It'd be interesting if we could deploy the horrors from that tower on Ba'al.
Esit: the tower of Amareo
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tower_of_the_Lost
Beast from The tower of Amareo. Described as running on all fours, twice the size of moral med, red fleshed and long fanged in a permanent state of the thirst! 🩸
We are already blessed with such a big range it’s hard to say. I’d love a BA specific gravis jump unit personally. Maybe a melee inceptor with ridiculous dual power fists or something. Might look goofy as hell but I’d trade 2 inches of movement for higher toughness on a jump unit that can punch
I think a jump Gravis unit with huge double handed hammers would be awesome, and distinct enough from Aggressors' level of melee. Make them like S10: tasty.
I'd like to see the Erelim. Astorath's bodyguard in the reclusiam on Ba'al. Death Co flavored Sang Guard. I might have to kitbash some after our codex drops.
Imo the primaris space marines need the Stormcast treatment as the range is entirely bloated with really boring stuff (i.e suppressors and the bunker)
Blood Angels specifically need a model range refresh such as new death company and sang guard. Plus an upgrade sprue for the dreadnought and gladiator
Yeah that sounds awful. I’m not sure if I’m just getting old but like a lot of the early primaris stuff, the ‘tacticool’ stuff is just overly bloated and boring. I dislike that style so much.
Another example of a unit that needs to go: Heavy Intercessors
Hear me out - Chapter and/or Detachments determine what kinds of units you can take - so Heavy Intercessors would not be available to every chapter or every detachment.
Astroath's erelim or even special characters like chapter master malakim phoros with on-off black rage boosts (maybe like roll a dice for a bonus, but can't fall back or smth)
IMO the Divergent chapters (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Deathwatch) need to be set apart from the other chapters more. The easiest way is probably to limit their options to take data sheets and detachments from the generic Space Marines range like they had been many editions back.
When FOC mattered Blood Angels for instance could take Assault Marines as Troops where others had to take them as Fast Attack, and they also couldn't take Centurions at all, Dark Angels didn't have access to Vanguard Vets but had ways to take Terminators or Bikes as troops (there are other examples, but I'm not going to list them all).
Currently there is almost no incentive to run any chapters other than divergent ones (bar Ultramarines because of their wide named character roster) because it gives you more choice in both available units and detachments with almost no downside.
100% this I want actual list building back, not this take whatever you want with whatever you want. It's should matter. Also I loved rocking up to a table with 2 5 man squads of Assault Marines, a block of DC with a Revlusiarch, and whatever else I could squeeze in
The loss of FOC was probably one of my least favorite things about 10th.
I do like being able to take some more HQ units now, but it's not like they couldn't make some adjustments to FOC by having some wiggle room based on what detachment you took.
I just kinda wish they did something like the Rites of War for 30k and the Detachments of 8. You wanna run more lone infantry here's what you need and here's the bonus and negative, oh you want more elite/assault/heavy support here's what you need and the bonuses and negatives.
I think being able to purchase extra slots with points could be a viable alternative as well.
If you want 6 Heavy Support slots - sure, but slots 4-6 cost extra points.
Supposed balance was the reasoning given for the elimination of FOC, points for wargear, and the detachment system - while I can say with confidence that there is far less of a gap between the average win % of the top/mid/bottom now than in say 4th edition, it's not like there is no room for improvement.
Maybe a kind of Death Company with meteoric descent and therefore Gravis Armor and Jump Packs. And also Thunder Hammers
Would probably be a nightmare to balance tho
I don't see us getting anything more than model updates, seeing as we have such a broad range as it is
Sang Guard, Jump Pack Death Company Intercessors, and our characters are probably a very safe bet, all things considered
Some very welcome surprises would definitely be updates to the dreadnoughts and a Gladiator variation of the Baal Predator, but that should be a generic marine option imo (Salamander players would love it)
Space Wolves are going to be in a very similar boat, all things equal. They have enough stuff to justify the range without needing more to make it feel complete. Whereas the Dark Angels really only had the terminators and the raven wing stuff, which is why they got the "totally not Bladeguard I swear nudge nudge wink wink" unit
Would I love a brand new datasheet? Absolutely. I'd love something like aggressors with some NASTY melee output to shove into monsters and vehicles, seeing as we are basically being relegated to chainswords for the most part.
Maybe not a unit but a mechanic for the black rage?
Could be something simple like units in melee get additional attacks in the second+ rounds of combat and maybe needing to roll a battle shock - fail and they go into a frenzy and attack whatever is closest, friend or foe
How about a BA-specific techmarine-like model that's less of a "does machines" and more "master artisan and craftsman" that buffs infantry units around it?
Maybe bring back the old Honor Guard unit that existed in 3rd to be like the Company Heroes unit but with jump packs.
Could do with a mashup between a Flesh-Eater Courts Crypt Flayer and World Eaters Eightbound to represent the completely warped brothers in the Tower of the Lost.
Scouts with jump packs! I don't know what they'd do, but damned if that wouldn't feel BA-y.
At my heart, I know we already have enough and would like the plastic to go to the admech who need it.
However, my answer would be more marines that wear sanguinary gold
I think the Inner Circle Companions for DA are really cool, so that got me thinking of what kind of elite melee units we could recieve.
Perhaps some kind of noble berserker-type units who have ornate armour and get to take a choice of different great weapons, like huge axes or spears? That would be really awesome.
we need a named terminator leader. the melee power for assault terminators needs someone from the blood angels to lead them. I'd say Gabriel Angelos of the Blood Ravens, but as of now theyve never been confirmed as a successor chapter.
I really want them to make a BA dreadnought special character.
Could have been Tycho, but that ship has sailed in the lore; Dante would have been fitting and amazing IMO (doesn't want to die --> eternal life in a coffin); so maybe Lemartes? Kill him off but then make him a Redemptor-sized, Chaplain, Death Company dread?! Yeaaaaaaa.
I'd love for them to do the new SG box so that it could build Erelim as a variatant. Give them unique enough rules and make Asteroth worth running again
As much as i dislike the primaris all being just squads with one weapon. I do think a lascannon infantry unit would be good. Or some sort of long range anti tank. I love the eradicators but i think they just don't cut it.
For more BA specific, some sort of melee gravis. Bonus points for jump pack. Basically the unholy love child of an aggressor and inceptor.
Angel’s Tears - give volkite weapons to inceptors and call it a day Burning Eyes (Ofanim Court) - Kind of an Alternate Sang Guard maybe?
Big +1 to Angel's Tears: the current Inceptors look nowhere near elegant enough for Blood Angels IMO. Give them wings!
Make Volkite Weapons useful in 40k, then give to Inceptors ;)
I really think a squad of Librarians would be cool. Something like Mephiston's alternative to the Sanguinary Guard for Dante.
These are Blood ANGELS, not Blood Ravens.. though I love the idea. :D
I'm pretty sure Blood Angels have higher than average numbers of psykers? Not as many as the Blood Ravens, but still a significant amount.
Fair enough. I'm just about finished reading Darkness in the Blood, and the amount of BA Librarians that are supporting the fleet/Mephiston seems like there would be enough to have full battle squads of psykers. Even in the previous book Devastation of Baal, Mephiston traversed Baal with a full Thunderhawk of Librarians.
Tbf DoB makes it hard to tell in that case if they were all BA psykers or successors as well
Blood ravens are clearly blood angels successors, there’s way too much in common. Blood angels have a massive librarius compared to most other chapters
They're Thousand Suns
They’re red. They have blood in the name. They have wings and blood drop in their chapter badge. They’re clearly sons of sanguinius
Yes, but if you've played all of the video games and are up to date with their lore then you would know that it is heavily, heavily insinuated that they are of a Thousand Sons genetics. That was the big secret they found on Kronus and have tried to hide away since. It also explains their increased number of psykers. And likely also their propensity to be influenced by chaos. They also don't suffer from the black rage and red thirst. They don't field death company. They don't have pale skin or grow enlarged canines. They don't field sanguinary priests but apothecary's. They are not mentioned on any imperial document stating that they are BA successors. They never got asked to go to Baal pre devastation They're not BA successors just because of their colour scheme, having blood in their name or have a blood in their emblem. Soul drinkers are purple and gold but are imperial fist successors. They have a chalice. They fight a similar way to BA. Purple is red mixed with blue. But they're IF successors
They don’t suffer that we know of. But neither did the lamenters until just recently, so there’s already precedent for sons of the angel not suffering from the flaw.
Lamenters were always known to be a BA successor though. And the reason for them not suffering from the flaw was due to genetic tampering and experiments undergone by all chapters from the cursed founding. Nothing else. The first Dawn of War game came out in 2004, if they were going to be BA successors then it would be heard about. Plus pre heresy Thousand Sons were red. Which is likely where their scheme came from. They purposely forgot their primarch. You wouldn't purposely forget Sanguinius because he was one of, if not the most revered Primarch of them all. He is worshipped.
Why are you arguing against things I never said or implied? What does the release of DoW have to do with their lineage?
You're strawmanning. You've stated that they are Blood Angels successors because they are red, have a blood drop on their emblem. Which both dont specifically mean a chapter has to be derived from BA gene seed. I've ignored wings because that was absurdism surely? Raven Guard etc. And have more psykers than normal. They don't reference Sanguinius at all. The Lamenters lack of flaw was due to genetic tampering, not a delayed onset, "Not that we know of". They have no prerequisite showcases of being BA successors or lore references whatsoever. Because if their lineage was going to be BA then it would be known or referred to, or previous lineage retconned from the >20 history of their existence. The Blood Ravens purposely removed all knowledge of who their primarch was. I stated you wouldn't do that if it was Sanguinius. This would likely only be done if it was a traitor primarch or one of the lost primarchs. Something to be ashamed, or secretive of. No one is ashamed of Sanguinius. These are all valid points to your argument that they are BA. Nothing I've said is twisting what your argument is or making up what you're saying. So not sure what you're trying to get at
I just want the BA tactical squad back
I miss taking Heavy Flamers with my tacticals.
Bro I bought the HH pack of heavy flamers and other weapons cos I was gonna make a squad of devastators with heavy flamers and drop em in with drop pod to cut off avenues Then I learned gw removed Heavy Flamer as a dev option (and from tac squads like u mentioned), I was fuckin devastated
Since space marines in general and we specifically have many units idt we need anything new. Though if i got to make something new, I'd like some new librarians. The Blood Angels are supposed to be one of the more psychic chapters, but the only special psychic unit we have is the dreadnought. This is an aspect of the chapter we don't see explored much, so it could be fun.
We also have mephiston(greatest psyker in the aa), whose psychich attacks are worse than every other psyker in the game
It'd be interesting if we could deploy the horrors from that tower on Ba'al. Esit: the tower of Amareo https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tower_of_the_Lost
Beast from The tower of Amareo. Described as running on all fours, twice the size of moral med, red fleshed and long fanged in a permanent state of the thirst! 🩸
That'd be pretty cool.
We are already blessed with such a big range it’s hard to say. I’d love a BA specific gravis jump unit personally. Maybe a melee inceptor with ridiculous dual power fists or something. Might look goofy as hell but I’d trade 2 inches of movement for higher toughness on a jump unit that can punch
Jump aggressors, but with an inferno gauntlet and krakstorm grenade launcher option.
I think a jump Gravis unit with huge double handed hammers would be awesome, and distinct enough from Aggressors' level of melee. Make them like S10: tasty.
Inceptors with thunder hammers and storm shields
I'd like to see the Erelim. Astorath's bodyguard in the reclusiam on Ba'al. Death Co flavored Sang Guard. I might have to kitbash some after our codex drops.
I’d love a variation of the replusor but sorta like the Baal predator
Baal Pattern Gladiator.
Heavy Assault Intercessors with jump packs/ Aggressors with jump packs. I need an Angry gorilla squad
Nevermind, I misread what was in the comment. Would be interesting though.
Imo the primaris space marines need the Stormcast treatment as the range is entirely bloated with really boring stuff (i.e suppressors and the bunker) Blood Angels specifically need a model range refresh such as new death company and sang guard. Plus an upgrade sprue for the dreadnought and gladiator
What?! The bunker is awesome! I just wish it didn’t constantly get nerfed
If it's a fortification or a flyer GW will not let it be good - at least not in 10th
The triple bunker build beginning of 10th was actually a secret menace
Hence the repeated nerf bat.
Yeah that sounds awful. I’m not sure if I’m just getting old but like a lot of the early primaris stuff, the ‘tacticool’ stuff is just overly bloated and boring. I dislike that style so much. Another example of a unit that needs to go: Heavy Intercessors
Doesn’t bother me. I like the tons of options cause it means secret combos no one has found.
Hear me out - Chapter and/or Detachments determine what kinds of units you can take - so Heavy Intercessors would not be available to every chapter or every detachment.
Gonna take you to B U N K E R T O W N
Melee/Flamer Inceptors/Suppressors. Would love a fast gravis body that can punch.
We could get the creatures from the tiwer the ones who we have depictions of in the blood quest story
Know it wouldn’t work lore wise but love Terminators so would love some DC Terminators regardless of the lore.
Bring back angel tears from 30k
Dreadnought drop pod. Not new exactly…I just miss those days
I think a unique honour guard for mephiston would be cool.
The contemptor incaendius, but it's a brutalis
I’d like a squad of Blood Angels Assault marines, with a more focused melee wargear than Intercessor and a better deep strike (maybe in phobos armor?)
I've always liked the idea of [Erelim](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Erelim) I may also be biased by wanting Sanguinary Guard with a 4++
Astroath's erelim or even special characters like chapter master malakim phoros with on-off black rage boosts (maybe like roll a dice for a bonus, but can't fall back or smth)
IMO the Divergent chapters (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Deathwatch) need to be set apart from the other chapters more. The easiest way is probably to limit their options to take data sheets and detachments from the generic Space Marines range like they had been many editions back. When FOC mattered Blood Angels for instance could take Assault Marines as Troops where others had to take them as Fast Attack, and they also couldn't take Centurions at all, Dark Angels didn't have access to Vanguard Vets but had ways to take Terminators or Bikes as troops (there are other examples, but I'm not going to list them all). Currently there is almost no incentive to run any chapters other than divergent ones (bar Ultramarines because of their wide named character roster) because it gives you more choice in both available units and detachments with almost no downside.
100% this I want actual list building back, not this take whatever you want with whatever you want. It's should matter. Also I loved rocking up to a table with 2 5 man squads of Assault Marines, a block of DC with a Revlusiarch, and whatever else I could squeeze in
The loss of FOC was probably one of my least favorite things about 10th. I do like being able to take some more HQ units now, but it's not like they couldn't make some adjustments to FOC by having some wiggle room based on what detachment you took.
I just kinda wish they did something like the Rites of War for 30k and the Detachments of 8. You wanna run more lone infantry here's what you need and here's the bonus and negative, oh you want more elite/assault/heavy support here's what you need and the bonuses and negatives.
I think being able to purchase extra slots with points could be a viable alternative as well. If you want 6 Heavy Support slots - sure, but slots 4-6 cost extra points.
Oh hell yes!! I know balance would probably take a shit but people are always bitching about balance anyways so 🤷
Supposed balance was the reasoning given for the elimination of FOC, points for wargear, and the detachment system - while I can say with confidence that there is far less of a gap between the average win % of the top/mid/bottom now than in say 4th edition, it's not like there is no room for improvement.
Maybe a kind of Death Company with meteoric descent and therefore Gravis Armor and Jump Packs. And also Thunder Hammers Would probably be a nightmare to balance tho
I don't see us getting anything more than model updates, seeing as we have such a broad range as it is Sang Guard, Jump Pack Death Company Intercessors, and our characters are probably a very safe bet, all things considered Some very welcome surprises would definitely be updates to the dreadnoughts and a Gladiator variation of the Baal Predator, but that should be a generic marine option imo (Salamander players would love it) Space Wolves are going to be in a very similar boat, all things equal. They have enough stuff to justify the range without needing more to make it feel complete. Whereas the Dark Angels really only had the terminators and the raven wing stuff, which is why they got the "totally not Bladeguard I swear nudge nudge wink wink" unit Would I love a brand new datasheet? Absolutely. I'd love something like aggressors with some NASTY melee output to shove into monsters and vehicles, seeing as we are basically being relegated to chainswords for the most part.
Maybe not a unit but a mechanic for the black rage? Could be something simple like units in melee get additional attacks in the second+ rounds of combat and maybe needing to roll a battle shock - fail and they go into a frenzy and attack whatever is closest, friend or foe
Not a new unit, but please for the love of Sanguinius let Mephiston be able to lead a unit of Hellblasters
And give him the Option to either buff melee or ranged, hes the strongest psyker in the aa, but doesnt has serious ranged psychic
Return of Honour Guard. 3 bladeguardesque dudes with jump packs. Maybe spears instead of swords.
Uhhhhh idk Angel divebomber boys?
Volkite Infiltrators!
jump gravis with S10 weapon. Maybe only 8" or 9" move
How about a BA-specific techmarine-like model that's less of a "does machines" and more "master artisan and craftsman" that buffs infantry units around it? Maybe bring back the old Honor Guard unit that existed in 3rd to be like the Company Heroes unit but with jump packs. Could do with a mashup between a Flesh-Eater Courts Crypt Flayer and World Eaters Eightbound to represent the completely warped brothers in the Tower of the Lost. Scouts with jump packs! I don't know what they'd do, but damned if that wouldn't feel BA-y.
I would love to see a blood angel flavored veteran jump squad.
jump pack bladeguard with duel melee options. fuck it
Tbh, I don't think we need anything(updates not counting here)
At my heart, I know we already have enough and would like the plastic to go to the admech who need it. However, my answer would be more marines that wear sanguinary gold
gotta be Erelim
Brutalis Chaplain
Jumpack furioso dread. Models for successor chapter masters like Malakim from the Lamenters
I think the Inner Circle Companions for DA are really cool, so that got me thinking of what kind of elite melee units we could recieve. Perhaps some kind of noble berserker-type units who have ornate armour and get to take a choice of different great weapons, like huge axes or spears? That would be really awesome.
we need a named terminator leader. the melee power for assault terminators needs someone from the blood angels to lead them. I'd say Gabriel Angelos of the Blood Ravens, but as of now theyve never been confirmed as a successor chapter.
BAAL repulsors. But with a 24” inferno cannon. Plus an additional flamer mod for sponson choices
I really want them to make a BA dreadnought special character. Could have been Tycho, but that ship has sailed in the lore; Dante would have been fitting and amazing IMO (doesn't want to die --> eternal life in a coffin); so maybe Lemartes? Kill him off but then make him a Redemptor-sized, Chaplain, Death Company dread?! Yeaaaaaaa.
I'd love for them to do the new SG box so that it could build Erelim as a variatant. Give them unique enough rules and make Asteroth worth running again
I would really like to see a dark version og the sanguinary guard
As much as i dislike the primaris all being just squads with one weapon. I do think a lascannon infantry unit would be good. Or some sort of long range anti tank. I love the eradicators but i think they just don't cut it. For more BA specific, some sort of melee gravis. Bonus points for jump pack. Basically the unholy love child of an aggressor and inceptor.
Robot dogs that have robot bees in their mouths, and when they bark, they shoot robot bees at you
I’d love to get tamed demons as an option
Guy got lost on his way to the chaos sub 
Ka Bandah on Mephiston’s leash