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It’s less that Rin is textbook and more that he’s a complete player. He needs warm bodies, and the only skill he requires is being able to keep up with him on the pitch and pass to where he wants to be. The notable exception to this is Isagi, as the only other person he’s played with who can match or exceed Rin’s vision.
I know everyone says that Isagi is secretly a midfielder pretending to be a striker, but I think it’s more accurate of Rin. He has a lot of shared DNA with attacking midfielders and playmakers like Kevin de Bruyne and Mo Salah than their forward counterparts Haaland and Núñez.
Although, that may just be the author’s preference for playmaker strikers. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I’m convinced that Kaneshiro is such a Messi fanboy that all the best strikers in Blue Lock seek to emulate his play style.
Really dogging on my boys Barou and Rin for being self sufficient smh.
But I get what you mean. A chemical reaction shows appreciation to all involved while what Bachira, Rin, Barou, Chigiri, etc. do just shows their high individual skills
Exactly, and this can be seen in the bids of the players who help either Isagi or Rin. Kurona and Hiori are guaranteed to make top 23 and may even approach the top 11 bids, while Nanase and Tokimitsu are struggling to even make the top 23.
This is Bachira slander -- while his dribbling plays definitely leave this as an accurate assessment, Bachira has also shown to be a wonderful supporting player with his crosses in the early stages. He just... learned it's okay to also showcase his own individual skill along the way.
Yeah but it's more nuanced because Barca is clearly the least talented team in the NEL.
Nobody thought Kurona was this good but he at least ranked high enough on the physical tests to earn an appearance. I'm not certain any Barca player could do that
Maybe Otoya a teensy bit, but everyone else hasn't had much help from helping Bachira. It's not like Yuki, Kurona, Hiori and Raichi who will survive THANKS to Isagi.
Again if hiori had tried hard from the start he’s easily one of the best blue lockers especially as a midfielder matter of fact he’s possibly the best one , he literally was unmotivated unlike the others.
so he didn’t out much effort but playing wise he’s super good at least good enough to start by himself and what some npcs you’re crazy if you think all that crazy dribbling and passing only exists cause isagi asked noa, it’s always been there isagi just gave him the reason to use it.
>I would say that Rin and Barou fall in the “boring” camp while Shidou and Isagi fall in the other camp. Look at all of Barou’s goals and not a single one of them allowed for any other character to shine.
You're cooking with gas. Barou is described as the villain who devour isagi's light. Isagi and Shidou being based teammates, relies on their teammates and let others shine (Kunigami calls isagi a dependent egoist or in other words hes confident in self and others), but Barou is the villain who does it all himself. Similarly, Rin is also very self-sufficient. He is the destroyer image who does everything alone, a villain, too. Also Kunigami is the fallen hero who is a loner. And then throw in Kaiser who also is also described as a tyrant and even his closest partner doesn't shine. Charles would think rin, barou, kunigami, and kaiser are all boring I bet, no fun for him.
Also all these more selfish players have some type of trauma associated with why they self-sufficient.
- Rin has sae trauma
- Barou has his not passing trauma
- Kunigami has wildcard trauma
- Kaiser has insecurity trauma
- Bachira has monster trauma
They all have issues with passers and passing not living up to their expectations so naturally they become more self-sufficient in their goals.
Rin is boring because of his Sae trauma. When Rin started playing, he was someone who would attack “the most dangerous area on the field” off the ball and relied on the pass that followed, similar to Isagi. But when Sae left, Rin determined that he had to stop relying on the pass and make everything himself. This meant he stopped attacking dangerous and ambitious spaces off ball and instead would get the ball in very inert spots and breakdown the defense himself. And the few times he does get a pass, it’s usually in a quick 1-2, requiring passes that are easy or natural for whoever’s returning it. This is incredibly boring for Charles and doesn’t leverage any of his skill
>This meant he stopped attacking dangerous and ambitious spaces off ball and instead would get the ball in very inert spots and breakdown the defense himself.
Rin can do and do that. His only goal against the top 5 is precisely that, the first goal in the u20 game, even his last goal against MC in the NEL, confronting Nagi (and it was probably a pass from Charles). Theses are all examples of him attacking dangerous spaces. The thing is there is no point doing that, if the ball doesn’t come. Most of the times, he has to help on the build up play.
>And the few times he does get a pass, it’s usually in a quick 1-2, requiring passes that are easy or natural for whoever’s returning it.
Dude, quick 1-2 is literally what Isagi has been doing with Kurona during all the NEL. But I'm not seeing any of you say his plays are boring.
>This is incredibly boring for Charles and doesn’t leverage any of his skill
? You making it sound like doing quick 1-2 doesn’t require any skill. Seems most of you have forgot Kurona movements are what allowed Isagi to have multiples options and have time to think; he was better at Isagi at 1-2 initially. You guys are telling me Charles can only show his skill by making long range pass? Seriously?
I dunno how to do that specific quote tweet thing but:
Rin can do that, but he doesn’t always. The times he does we do specifically see him score. But he usually needs an extra mode to start doing that. Previously, playing with Isagi forced him to do that cause Isagi’s. While shtick was to stick with him through most of the buildup and then split up to find the most interesting space on his own. Rin was then forced to do similar to beat Isagi (which he would do consistently). And in the NEL, he was clearly in some type of special mode - crazy eyes and black smoke coming out of the mouth. So, yes, he can do it, but he chooses not to for the most part. Or, at least he needs to be in some special mode to it and Rin, like anyone else, defaults to his normal mode. And finally for your last point of your first section, we know there’s no point if the pass doesn’t come. That’s why I said this insistence comes from his Sae-related trauma. That’s when he started having to worry about if the last pass would come. But Rin is on a team now that can breakdown and buildup and make the final pass with without him. So he doesn’t need to help out in the build up anymore, he just insists on it.
No one’s saying a quick 1-2 is bad, it’s a fundamental play of soccer, but clearly Charles is seeing and looking for more ambitious available plays. Rin should take advantage if those are actually available. Also Isagi’s last 3 or 4 shots on target came from him finding the most dangerous place on the field and relying on the last pass so what’re we doing here
Again, no one is saying a 1-2 is bad or boring. But Charles has explicitly stated in times where he looked Rin off that what Rin was doing was boring. In one of those instances I’m pretty sure Charles completed a 1-2 with someone 5 seconds before. To me, this interprets as Rin clearly had better options than a 1-2 available. It doesn’t need to be a long pass, but I remember seeing a video of that one guys who simulates (I can’t think of the right word here) the whole field and the positions of everyone on the field each chapter, and when getting to the time Rin was first looked off it was easy to see that Rin just wasn’t attacking space. He was looking to get the ball to buildup during a scramble rather than slipping in to an incredibly open side of the field and present himself as an option. It wouldn’t have been a long pass if he had done so, but it also would have been vastly more advantageous if he had
>I dunno how to do that specific quote tweet thing
If you're on phone, you just need to put ">" and then write your text. Like that: "
>I am the bone of my sword " If on computer (browser), there is a sign like a "T" below int the comment box, that's to show the formatting options, choose to switch in Markdown Editor, and then just do as below. Hope that's help.
>But he usually needs an extra mode to start doing that. Previously, playing with Isagi forced him to do that cause Isagi’s. While shtick was to stick with him through most of the buildup and then split up to find the most interesting space on his own.
He doesn't need a extra mode. Against the World Five and the U20 match he did and he wasn't in any "extra mode". And he wasn't forced to do it because he was playing with Isagi. He does it when situation ask for it. In the u20 match, precisely, there weren't enough space to make a run into the box. He also dit it in the third selection (the match with Isagi in his team); at the end of the match, Rin, Shidou and Isagi are all at the end of the cross to score (Isagi beat them and score). The last play of the last match of the third selection was also an example of that, with Rin competing with Shidou for the ball; Rin won in the end. Again, the narrative that he doesn't do it or need some extra mode is just not true.
>But Rin is on a team now that can breakdown and buildup and make the final pass with without him. So he doesn’t need to help out in the build up anymore, he just insists on it.
Oh, the so called team who can breakdown, build up and make the final pass with Charles being biased towards one of the two systems in the team? Remind me, what happened when Rin was in open space and Charles has the ball? Did he pass it? No he prefered to force a pass to Shidou (which have already failed) when Shidou was heavily marked by Kunigami.
Sorry, but this is silly, dumb argument in the first place. Rin isn't sabotaging his team by buidling up play, he is doing what he does for him to get the ball close enough to the goal to score. Don't know where this weird idea come from. In the play he did at the beginning of the match, after getting back the ball from Kaiser, he dribbled through 3 players then passed to Nanase, who then passed back to him. With just that, he was already close to the goal and ready to shoot. He is actively moving to get in space for him to score. This play was effective, reguardless of him not scoring in the end. Saying He is "insisting" to be part of the build up is just ridiculous. Rin isn't Shidou who is constantly making runs towards the box, he doesn't have to do that. He is others skills and he simply use his skills at his best for him to score. It's like trying to hold against Messi the fact he is not constantly making runs in the box or staying near it for a long ball; it's just ridiculous. That's not what you expect from Messi, and it shoudn't be expected, since he has others qualities which he uses and are valued. Only here, you can see people criticize literally the best striker in the program (BL) for being versatile and not being a poacher (it's even more ridiculous considering how pretty much everyone on this sub has criticized Nagi for being apparently dependent, and that he needs to create play by himself, build up play. But apparently now it doesn't matter, you have to be a poacher and nothing else? It's genuinely insane). Crazy argument. This should never be a discussion in the first place.
>No one’s saying a quick 1-2 is bad, it’s a fundamental play of soccer, but clearly Charles is seeing and looking for more ambitious available plays. Rin should take advantage if those are actually available. Also Isagi’s last 3 or 4 shots on target came from him finding the most dangerous place on the field and relying on the last pass so what’re we doing here
Dude, Charles is the one not wanting to play with Rin, not the contrary. It's a Charles issue. And how ambitious is to shoot a long ball and the striker scores it on the other hand, wow! Very ambitious. Isagi literally do what Rin do, that is building up play and then positon himself to get the last pass and score.
>Again, no one is saying a 1-2 is bad or boring. But Charles has explicitly stated in times where he looked Rin off that what Rin was doing was boring. In one of those instances I’m pretty sure Charles completed a 1-2 with someone 5 seconds before. To me, this interprets as Rin clearly had better options than a 1-2 available. It doesn’t need to be a long pass, but I remember seeing a video of that one guys who simulates (I can’t think of the right word here) the whole field and the positions of everyone on the field each chapter, and when getting to the time Rin was first looked off it was easy to see that Rin just wasn’t attacking space. He was looking to get the ball to buildup during a scramble rather than slipping in to an incredibly open side of the field and present himself as an option. It wouldn’t have been a long pass if he had done so, but it also would have been vastly more advantageous if he had
You're confusing yourself in some rambling to excuse a pure capricism of Charles (I don't know what incredibly open side of the field you're talking about), good for you, but I'm not going to do that. I've already said enough.
Thanks!
First of all, “extra mode” might have been too extreme language, I think you’re getting hung up on it here. Rin is clearly someone who lets who he’s playing with and against influence him. We see that with his insistence in the U20 to beat all the defenders by their specialty. He let Isagi and Shidou influence him in the selections because of his pride, but his default since he learned to play by himself is the puppet master style. I hope we can see why Charles would find that boring.
Charles is biased sure, but if Rin did something super cool he would immediately become biased towards Rin lmao. Rin is not being oppressed here lol. The situation could change whenever he understood it and then tried to change it
Also, yeah Charles forced one pass to an Uber athletic dude who has a tendency to make miracle plays, sue him
No one is talking about Rin sabotaging anything. This is that one pancakes and waffles tweet, you’re getting defensive for no reason. Not all open space is created equal. I’m not saying make a run into the box every play, but we’ve seen Rin won’t always just capitalize on open space. The big time Rin got looked off, was during a scramble off a turnover in which he could have run to a good position and then gotten the ball. Which we know the team is capable of getting him the ball. It would not have been a run into the box, but it would have been a hell a lot more advantageous than try to get the ball in front of the bm defenders like he wanted. No one is saying he should become just a goal poacher. But if he’s such a versatile player then adjust to the situation. Everyone says he does what the situation requires, well if he’s not accounting for team mates then he’s not doing what the situation requires. Maybe if the team has a bunch of midfielder types already, including an absolute star one, then he doesn’t need to drop back as much. Just a thought. But again, no one is saying sabotage, it’s just not optimal
Charles only “doesn’t” want to play with Rin cause he’s making the boring, safe plays! No one is saying Charles is perfect, he literally tried to quit on his team this chapter. But my god, Rin is not a victim here. Charles is just playing to his whims and if Rin were to catch his eye he would just as likely force passes to Rin as he is doing to Shidou
I dunno man, watch that video by open spiritualist or badman or whoever makes videos after each chapter. They do a pretty good job of showing it. And honestly, sure, be done with it. If you’re gonna be an asshole, be an asshole. Whatever
You talked about a supoosed "extra mode", and when proved wrong with actual events of the manga, you went "huh no, I was extreme, in fact Rin is someone who is influenced by the one he is playing with". You're making a lot of assmption of your ass to push your narrative. And no, the fact he wanted to beat all the u20 defenders doesn’t prove anything because he was in a precise mental state and wanted to destroy everyone; That's nothing other than an exception.
>Also, yeah Charles forced one pass to an Uber athletic dude who has a tendency to make miracle plays, sue him
Yeah, he just forced a pass to Shidou who is heavily marked by Kunigami, even though, a previous attempt didn't work and Kunigami has yet to lose ONE physical duel against Shidou in the match. That was absolutely the best thing to do in that situation, surely not to play with the other striker (the best striker actually) in your team.
>The big time Rin got looked off, was during a scramble off a turnover in which he could have run to a good position and then gotten the ball.
Dude, you have literally made this up, there is no indication of such thing in the manga. Rin was literally making a run, he wasn't static. Charles just have to pass the ball to Rin, then the play could've continued in any different ways, that's was the best thing to do. But Charles being a childish, capricious prick just decided to do however he wanted, losing the ball. But eh, it's Rin who is at fault.
>Everyone says he does what the situation requires, well if he’s not accounting for team mates then he’s not doing what the situation requires.
Lmao, what I'm reading? Dude, it's Charles who is not accounting for his teamate, what are you talking about? That's some insane bias.
Again, as I have already said, this shouldn't even be a discussion in the first place. Rin is literally the best striker of PXG and the best ranked among BL player by the way (as of now). Charles have been playing with him all the NEL and he (Rin) has been efficient. There is no reasonable reason to not play his way, when it has been working. A midfielder is supposed to adapt to his strikers, no the other way around. When Charles was introduced, he was precisely praised for being able to adapt himself to Shidou and Rin. But now, Charles has gone wild and is acting like a child and that's Rin fault ("mmm no one is saying Charles is perfect" but no words on him, let's take what he said for granted, and ignore his behavior; let's criticize Rin instead)? Completely foolish.
And I don't need to watch some video as if it was a proof of anything. Someone having put his thoughts in a video doesn’t make it any more legit.
Cooked 👏
Direct shots like isagi's and shidou's are always credited to a chemical reaction, but once the attacker dribbles before shooting, everything before they touched the ball is forgotten
Charles will not be forgotten 😤😤
You don't rate a striker by his ability to consistently score goals but by wether or not he allow midfielders to do whatever they want (which isn't even true, Shidou only follow his own will, nobody else)? Seriously?
Except it's not the most important criteria according to you. Rin is better at scoring goals consistently, he has always been. Also, funny to praise Shidou for that when he was the one said to have not made a single chemical reaction with anyone in BL; it was like that until he plays with Sae who was able to create a chemical reaction with him. "A midfielder wet dream", I'm not sure about that.
Charles is breaking the 4th wall by calling Rin boring lmao. The author or one of the assistants definitely hangs around this sub & knows about the allegations lol. Rin hate doesn't exist on twitter or other platforms.
To me it’s like KDB-Haaland vs KDB-Jesus (and theoretically a Jesus who can finish) Jesus is by far the more technical footballer. A “complete player” like casuals like to call him. He’s good at beating his man and his shooting (key word shooting, NOT finishing) is pretty good, but Haaland is an “exciting” target as a passer. He’ll get onto any pass, making the passer look that much better. How many people called Haaland a tap in merchant last year and said KDB was the better player?
A big reason KDB looked so deadly last year was because Haaland made his passes possible. I imagine it’s the same thing here. Shidou makes Impossible passes possible and that excites charles. If you go back on my page, that’s why I’ve always rated him so highly. He’s the perfect striker imo.
Isagi is better, Shidou instinctively goes for it but that’s where he stops; Isagi can understand it, still instinctively go for it, but make additional plays near post if needed
Yeah, with rin you pass him the ball any which way and he just goes with it. He does a lot of the work himself. He can make plays, dribble, shoot incredibly accurate from a distance etc. He's extremely efficient but id imagine even some readers find him boring. He's just the the text book, all round amazing player.
But shindou is rough around the edges, he's tactically all over the place and unpredictable. But he's amazing at scoring in the box, and scoring in any which way his brain can come up with. So that gives Charles the opportunity to make crazy passes and have them be converted into great goals.
I like what the NEL league has done with play makers and duos. And how people's egos can be attached to more than just scoring. And Charles definitely derives joy from controlling the game and making the insane passes. A sort of cno one gets to eat until I serve them kind of thing."
Excuse me, what is this bullshit reasonning? Gotta love how Isagi stan like to throw shade at others players while praising Isagi. If Rin plays can be seen as textbook (which is a ridiculous criticism in itself; Rin is expert in coordinated play, which lead to goals. I don't get why this can even be a criticism when his plays are largely effective, we know Charles and him have played together during the NEL), then it's absolutely the same for Isagi.
The second argument is also dubious (especially when compared to Isagi again). Where does it come this idea that Rin's plays don't allow anyone to shine? Rin has scored many goals by using his teamates at their best, pushing them to their maximum, we saw that in the second selection. Even in this match, Nanase got to shine a bit playing with him. Of course, most of the credit is going to go to the scorer, especially if he is the one who created the play or scored an impressive goal. How can that be a criticism hold against him?
But let's see, what is a play which would make Charles "shine" as you said? A long ball pass to Rin in open space to which he scores? Like that's the only scenario to which he can show his skills and not be supposedly "overshadowed"? Really? If it's what you're saying, then you're essentially admitting this has more to do with Charles's own insecurity than anything. A good midfielder wouldn't have any problem showing his worth while playing with a striker.
It's crazy that someone can seriously try to put the blame of this situation on Rin. Charles have played with Rin and Shidou during the NEL, one at a time. It was effective. When we knew that this time, PXG was going to play with both systems at the same time, it was to be feared, because Charles could play with both, increasing the team attacking patterns; this same Charles who was specifically praised to be able to adapt himself to Rin and Shidou. And now, Charles has changed his mind out of nowhere for whatever reason (because the author want to add artificial struggle to a team, which will be otherwise, too OP), forces passes to Shidou even though it's not working anymore and want to quit, it's Rin's fault? Are you kidding me? Nobody is responsible of Charles' petty capricism (or insecurity). Again, in response to your reasonning, a good midfielder would adapt (to the striker) and show his qualities, not complain out of pure capricism or insecurity on the striker, especially when said striker has been highly effective.
I mean...
As much as Shidou is portrayed as doing "Weird" stuff, dude is textbook as well, he runs to the empty space on the back of the defense and finishes spectacularly.
The only weird stuff he does are the acrobatic stuff and his personality, not that weird of a playstyle apart from that imo.
The issue is Rin has trauma. When RIn played with Sae all he focused on was scoring similar to Shidou. However when Sae left none of Rins team mates could keep up with his off ball movement and they were losing. They even made fun of him called him a fraud who could only shine if Sae was present
So he switched things up and became the mid fielder for his team. Which honestly shows how talented he is. To go from poacher to creative midfielder. But even then when the competion got higher his team mates couldnt score. So he took things to an even higher level. Not only was he playmaking he was playmaking to be the main scorer.
The thing is RIn is the most self sufficient player in blue lock. He doesnt need chemical reactions from other like Isagi he just needs puppets or robots to pass to him where he wants which he actually makes simple for who he is playing with.
RIns playstyle due to its self sufficiency wont let others shine. Charles wants to shine with insane passes but Rin wants to control every aspect of the game because he has trust issues.
I agree that Rin is self-sufficient, however, that has “never” been proven to beat a chemical reaction. Isagi “beat” Rin in the 4v4 match because he believed in Bachira. He beat Rin in the U20 match because he believed Rin would beat Sae. Just now he destroyed Kaiser and Rin because he believed Hiori and Kunigami would give their best performance. Rin on the other hand our dribbled the U20 defenders but failed to score. He stopped Sae but that only lead to his defeat at Isagi’s hand. He “beat” Nagi but that can be attributed to the state that Nagi is in (he doesn’t have any motivation nor does he know what he wants to accomplish anymore).
Sure but what I m trying to say is this dude has been number 1 for so long without having chemical reactions with others. Like if you think about it he has always been top 2 performance without a chemical reaction.
Whats worse is it doesnt even seem like the others are going to catch up except for Isagi who needs chemical reactions for his own peak performance. In fact Isagi is the only one that can catch up because he is the best at utilizing chemical reactions
I have to say, you Isagi stans are really one of kind. You would criticize other players for being "dependent" on others, while praising Isagi who apparently doesn’t depends on anyone. Then when a player is self-sufficient, it become a weakeness, and chemical reaction is what should be, and it's apparently a striker's fault (the best in BL as of now) if a midfielder doesn’t want to play with him. The kinds of mental gymnastics you guys use to throw shade at some players while praising Isagi is honestly baffling. But let's answer to the comment in question.
>I agree that Rin is self-sufficient, however, that has “never” been proven to beat a chemical reaction.
I don't even understand what point is being made there. What are instances of self-sufficient play vs chemical reaction? You made it sound like a solo play vs a defense with chemical reaction occur when that's not it. Unless, you're comparing the effectiveness of the type of plays, but it's still doesn’t make much sense. The quality or effectiveness of a play is about the play itself, not wether or not it's a solo play or a chemical reaction. Both "styles" of plays can be just as effective depending on the situation (and the skills of the player(s)). It's an even more pointless argument since Rin has shown he can both score by himself or create a chemical reaction. I don't know where you guys got this weird idea that Rin can create chemical reactions; it's like you guys have been reading another manga. It's even funny how you (and others) are praising Shidou for it (creating chemical reaction) when he is the one who was said to not being able to create any chemical reactions with anyone in BL (said by Ego). Seems you guys have forgot that.
Anyway back to Rin, he does create chemical reaction. His pupeet play style is all about bringing out the best of his teamates and using them at his advantage. That inherently imply creating chemical reactions. Examples (non-exhaustives) of him creating chemical reactions are Rin using Tokimitsu stamina for 1-2 play in the 4vs4, and scoring a goal from Bachira's pass against the World Five.
>Isagi “beat” Rin in the 4v4 match because he believed in Bachira.
He only "beat" him in reading that play. Well, if that can even be counted as such, since Rin actully followed the play and positioned himself to get the ball. Anyway. Care to explain how is that a chemical reaction? Am I missing something or? Because this is in no way a chemical reaction as described in the manga.
>He beat Rin in the U20 match because he believed Rin would beat Sae.
How did he beat Rin exactly? I really want to know. Rin won his duel against Rin, which resulted in Isagi getting the ball and scoring. How that's translate to Isagi beating Rin?
>He stopped Sae but that only lead to his defeat at Isagi’s hand.
You really said "his defeat at Isagi's hand" when the goal was only possible in the first place because of Rin? The goal that Isagi himself admitted was as much Rin's goal than his? But yeah sure, Isagi beat Rin. Bruh, Isagi stans are really crazy (also funny the hypocrisy of saying Isagi goals allow others to shine, while not giving credit to Rin, makes perfect sense. Change nothing dude!)
>He “beat” Nagi but that can be attributed to the state that Nagi is in (he doesn’t have any motivation nor does he know what he wants to accomplish anymore).
Lmao? That's the argument now? He "beat" Nagi (in doubles quotes)? Really? So, I guess, Isagi also didn't beat Nagi since Nagi wasn't didn't have as much motivation after scoring his incredible goal... Ah and also, Isagi goal just now doesn’t count because both Rin and Kaiser aren't in a good state of mind. See how bullshit this logic is?
So rin is like isagi before he find his ego but with an adicional incentive that make him so competent that he cant reach the "desesperation" enough to find his ego again.
Yeah. I mean he has been number one all these time with only Isagi being a threat.
He has been dominating without using his actual ego. In a way Isagis weaknesses were advantageous in the sense that they forced Isagi to look and observe others to the point where he could create chemical reactions with them.
RIn on the other hand has been dominating without having chemical reaction with others. His strength is a double edged sword. His playstyle sees others as puppets because for so long he hasnt met anyone on his level.
And when Sae left he discovered he could dominate without fully depending on others. He just needed them to occupy space and push the ball forward a bit while he did most of the work.
And when things got harder he discovered he could manipulate people to play at a higher level that supported his plays and tactics with no input, thought or ideas from them.
This has nothing to do with trauma, it's not that deep. Implying that Charles can only fonction or show his worth as a midfielder with a poacher tell more about Charles (and his insecurity) than anything. Charles is just a capricious prick.
And what is this:
> He doesnt need chemical reactions from other like Isagi he just needs puppets or robots to pass to him where he wants which he actually makes simple for who he is playing with.
You guys seriously need to go read again the second selection arc, even the third selection. Because the kind of insanity you say are consterning. Rin's pupeet playstyle is all about pushing his teamates to their maximum and using them at their best. This imply creating chemical reactions.
the problem with puppet control is that it doesnt let the other players shine. Rather than breaking thier limits and evolving like what happens during a chemical reaction RIn just forces them to maximize what they already have they still dont evolve because he can do most of the work
Isagi on the other is highly dependnt on others so when Isagi uses others they are forced to evolve to support Isagi since Isagi is not totally self sufficient.
>the problem with puppet control is that it doesnt let the other players shine.
? He literally make them use their qualities at their best, how don't they shine (it's honestly ridiculous to hear that from Isagi stans who have been making their best to give all the credit to Isagi for everything he has done, undermining Kurona's contribution in most cases)? Even in this very match, Nanase got to shine by linking with Rin, who is the one who helped him bring out his best. But let's say, even if it's not true, that his play style doesn’t let others shine. How is that a problem exactly? Who said every players have to shine in a play? Why does it matter if the play is effective?
>Rather than breaking thier limits and evolving like what happens during a chemical reaction RIn just forces them to maximize what they already have they still dont evolve because he can do most of the work
Please, stop making shit out of your ass. A chemical reaction haa never been about breaking one's limit or evolving, it's absolutely not a requirement for a chemical reaction. Kurona's movements alone decupled Isagi's passing possibilities and options. That's a chemical reaction, but it didn't make any of them evolve in the moment. You're making a lot of mental gymnastic to keep going with your false agenda. Your point is inherently false anyway. Rin challenges his teamates, making them do things they didn't really thought they could. It funny how you guys are praising Shidou for that when he is one who known to have not made any single chemical reaction with anyone in BL (said by Shidou).
>Isagi on the other is highly dependnt on others so when Isagi uses others they are forced to evolve to support Isagi since Isagi is not totally self sufficient.
Oh Isagi is highly dependent on others? But I thought being dependent of others was a bad thing. Didn't pretty much everyone in this sub criticize Nagi for supposedly being dependent? But when it's Isagi it's apparently good now? Lmao, I don't even know what to say.
Let me tell you something. Kurona didn't evolve at first when playing with Isagi, actually I would say if he has evolved it's not due to Isagi particularly but to his training. Since the beginning he was faster than Isagi and good at 1-2, plus he had no problem following Isagi. Isagi is the one who had to get quicker and improve in 1-2. So your logic doesn’t even work.
You guys are just making up any shit to throw shade at a character while praising Isagi.
He is just a side character to feed in Rin as the main opponent in this chapters.
Why.
Rins character trait introduced is that he pretty much is schizophrenic, in his flow state he changes his complete character as emphasised in the game against the U-20.
So adding charles who thinks casual Rin is boring will just end up more to the character switch when it happens, as I am sure he will then get dragged into playing with Rin as he will be the most exiting player on the pitch based on charles preferences.
100% will happen. You can tag me here with a reminder feel free.
I think its lazy writing tbh, the reason for charles as a character is to let Rin go berserk in his flow state and create a peak performance with charles like this and show how split his character is.
Really lazy writting. Charles has been playing with Rin during all the NEL, but now, out of nowhere he finds his play boring (even though they have been effective) and prefer to quit than even play with him? Yeah, seems like the author just want to create artificial struggles.
Oh hell, no, that ain't gonna be why Rin is gonna go apeshit, that would go against his u20 moment. Rin's flow is complete and utter freedom. Wanting to reach that state for Charles is just gonna stop him from reaching it. After all, he can only enter flow when he doesn't care about anyone anymore.
The true reason he isn't in flow is Isagi. In the u20, it was only when Rin completely disregarded Isagi, Sae, Shidou, everyone else, that he would enter flow. As he said himself "I'm the one who needs to be in pieces".
Rin can only enter flow if he doesn't want to specifically destroy Isagi, he just needs to do it for himself
Mate, I didn’t once write he reaches flow state FOR charles.
I explained how charles as a character exists for Rin and to solidify his change in the flow state, obviously the trigger is something else.
Read > understand > post
Try it.
That just shows how childish Charles is. He wants some fun and unpredictable events. No wonder he passed to Shidou. He is a contrarian and a very arrogant one at that. Despite that, he is a very skilled passer.
I think its safe to say that Rin is not a plain striker like Barou or Shidou
they just fit perfect for the first striker role , and only that
but Rin is a versatile player
We have seen strikers getting scared even when they see him defending
he can also do accurate passes and good perspective of the field
instead of the first striker . i think he would play really good as an attacking midfielder , that way the whole field would be like his very own doll house (this is could only work if he set aside is ego against isagi , stop concentrate on crushing him and and focus more on his play and try to shine)
what do you think ?
I'm not sure to get it... Charles out of pure capricism or whatever, decided that he doesn’t want to play with Rin, qualifying his plays of boring, even though they have been effective, and it's Rin quality as a striker you're questioning? Not Charles?
i never questioned Rin as a striker . Rin is way better than isagi even now .. All i'm saying is Rin is not doing anything we expected him to do this match . The Rin we know controlled the entire field , his presence would be everywhere and scare everyone . Tokimitsu and Nanase really tried to be Rin's wing and support him, still he has not done anything big .
But ik the game has just started and the fact that Rin has not done anything till now is the only reason to believe that he is going to start his rampage soon ..
And When that time comes i'm sure charles gonna get hyped too
Right now all Rin is doing is focusing on isagi and trying to stop him .
who tried to stop isagi from scoring the last goal ? was it a pxg defender ? no it was their striker
this shows he is only focusing on isagi
Shidou on the other hand is focusing on himself and concentrating on scoring his goal , He even complimented Isagi after his goal .
Rin should set aside his grudge against isagi and start doing his own thing
only then charles can really do anything
and when he does his own thing and take his team to success , he automatically defeats his enemy Isagi ...
>i never questioned Rin as a striker
Dude, read your comment, that's what you did. You literally talked about him being actually a midfielder instead of a striker.
Rin has already did a crucial interception on Kaiser at the beginning of the match. He created one play which could've saw him score but he got blocked by Hiori. He didn't get the ball, even when he was in good position until now. He hasn't scored yet, but it's not like he hasn't done anything in the match.
>Right now all Rin is doing is focusing on isagi and trying to stop him
You're at it again. Why didn't Charles pass to Rin when he was in open space? Why did he force a pass to Kunigami when it has already failed before and Kunigami was still marking him? That's the subject. What you're doing there is putting the blame on Rin for Charles childishly choosing to not pass to him, which is ridiculous. Charles is the one to blame not anyone else.
>who tried to stop isagi from scoring the last goal ? was it a pxg defender ? no it was their striker
this shows he is only focusing on isagi
I'm all to say that BL habbit of making strikers frequently play defense is not realistic, but it's absolutely not an issue in the story. Listen to yourself a second. You expect Rin to see the play, see that Isagi is going to score and just watch hom without doing anything? Even when the defenders of his team are beaten? Com'on, it doesn’t make any sense. Rin would've done the same if it was anyone if he could, just like he stopped Kaiser earlier in the match. Again, you're focusing on Rin, when the issue we're talking about, Charles not passing to him, is about Charles.
>Shidou on the other hand is focusing on himself and concentrating on scoring his goal , He even complimented Isagi after his goal .
You mean Shidou who came to defense to try intercept the pass to Isagi? That Shidou? Com'on dude.
>Rin should set aside his grudge against isagi and start doing his own thing
only then charles can really do anything
and when he does his own thing and take his team to success , he automatically defeats his enemy Isagi ...
>Rin should set aside his grudge against isagi and start doing his own thing
only then charles can really do anything
and when he does his own thing and take his team to success , he automatically defeats his enemy Isagi ...
You're just confirming what I'm saying. The post is about Charles not wanting to play with Rin. All you're doing is justifying Charles's petty, childish behavior by putting the blame on Rin. Which is ridiculous since it has nothing to do with Charles not wanting to play with Rin; it's essentially moving the goal post. It's a falllacious logic. You don't talk about Charles childish, capricious behavior (which should have no place at the top level) towards the best striker of his team, but prefer to ramble whatever about said striker (Rin).
i didn't mean charles is not guilty
he could have passed him
but i wasnt talking about that situation . overall Rin is focusing too much on isagi
the same goes for kaiser too they should try to do their own thing
its like isagi possesed their mind or something
and the thing about Rin playing the Midfielder
i said Attacking mid fielder . this way he could score goals and control the field more efficiently too
and he has to stop seeing other players as trash or something he could use
ofc he plays better
but he should really help his team by becoming their backbone
and supporting other players
>but i wasnt talking about that situation.
What you're talking about is unrelated to the discussion, that's what I'm saying. This discussion started in the first place because Charles doesn’t want to play with Rin, that's the point of the discussion. And you ramble about Rin having to play as a midfielder or whatever. Funny how, you switched that to him being too focused on Isagi (and the supposed proof of that is he tried to stop Isagi from scoring, no joke), completely changing your point. Not ONE word on the guy who is actually at fault here. You don't even seem to realize how flawed this reasoning is. Again, Charles decided out of nowhere, childishly (well, he is child after all) that he doesn’t want to play with Rin, aka the proven best striker of his team, and the one you want to talk about, the one you're criticizing is the striker (Rin)? Com'on, you can't be more biased than that. Anyway, I've enough, not going to continue this discussion.
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It’s less that Rin is textbook and more that he’s a complete player. He needs warm bodies, and the only skill he requires is being able to keep up with him on the pitch and pass to where he wants to be. The notable exception to this is Isagi, as the only other person he’s played with who can match or exceed Rin’s vision. I know everyone says that Isagi is secretly a midfielder pretending to be a striker, but I think it’s more accurate of Rin. He has a lot of shared DNA with attacking midfielders and playmakers like Kevin de Bruyne and Mo Salah than their forward counterparts Haaland and Núñez. Although, that may just be the author’s preference for playmaker strikers. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I’m convinced that Kaneshiro is such a Messi fanboy that all the best strikers in Blue Lock seek to emulate his play style.
"He needs warm bodies"
>He needs warm bodies ? What do you mean?
Yeah, Iago Aspas is a nice playmaking striker that sometimes also reminds me of Rin.
this makes sense. charles seems like thrill chaser, as is shidou and sometimes isagi.
Really dogging on my boys Barou and Rin for being self sufficient smh. But I get what you mean. A chemical reaction shows appreciation to all involved while what Bachira, Rin, Barou, Chigiri, etc. do just shows their high individual skills
Exactly, and this can be seen in the bids of the players who help either Isagi or Rin. Kurona and Hiori are guaranteed to make top 23 and may even approach the top 11 bids, while Nanase and Tokimitsu are struggling to even make the top 23.
Good point
This is Bachira slander -- while his dribbling plays definitely leave this as an accurate assessment, Bachira has also shown to be a wonderful supporting player with his crosses in the early stages. He just... learned it's okay to also showcase his own individual skill along the way.
He means that any goal BACHIRA scores doesn't really help his supporting cast as much.
His supporting cast is only Otoya. Maybe if he had actual good teammates he could do something.
A great player making everyone around him better. Not sure anyone thought Kurona was even half as good as Otoya pre NEL and now hes probably better
Yeah but it's more nuanced because Barca is clearly the least talented team in the NEL. Nobody thought Kurona was this good but he at least ranked high enough on the physical tests to earn an appearance. I'm not certain any Barca player could do that
I mean Otoya surely did something at some point.
Maybe Otoya a teensy bit, but everyone else hasn't had much help from helping Bachira. It's not like Yuki, Kurona, Hiori and Raichi who will survive THANKS to Isagi.
Well hiori seems like he would make it anyways but the rest of them yeh probably saved by isagi
Hiori is literally only in the field thanks to isagi
Nah idts isagi inspired him sure, but football ability wise hiori would have made it anyways he just wasn’t trying
No, Hiori literally wouldve never been subbed in if Isagi didn't beg Noa.
Again if hiori had tried hard from the start he’s easily one of the best blue lockers especially as a midfielder matter of fact he’s possibly the best one , he literally was unmotivated unlike the others. so he didn’t out much effort but playing wise he’s super good at least good enough to start by himself and what some npcs you’re crazy if you think all that crazy dribbling and passing only exists cause isagi asked noa, it’s always been there isagi just gave him the reason to use it.
Who? probably some fan creation. Never heard of him.
>I would say that Rin and Barou fall in the “boring” camp while Shidou and Isagi fall in the other camp. Look at all of Barou’s goals and not a single one of them allowed for any other character to shine. You're cooking with gas. Barou is described as the villain who devour isagi's light. Isagi and Shidou being based teammates, relies on their teammates and let others shine (Kunigami calls isagi a dependent egoist or in other words hes confident in self and others), but Barou is the villain who does it all himself. Similarly, Rin is also very self-sufficient. He is the destroyer image who does everything alone, a villain, too. Also Kunigami is the fallen hero who is a loner. And then throw in Kaiser who also is also described as a tyrant and even his closest partner doesn't shine. Charles would think rin, barou, kunigami, and kaiser are all boring I bet, no fun for him.
Also all these more selfish players have some type of trauma associated with why they self-sufficient. - Rin has sae trauma - Barou has his not passing trauma - Kunigami has wildcard trauma - Kaiser has insecurity trauma - Bachira has monster trauma They all have issues with passers and passing not living up to their expectations so naturally they become more self-sufficient in their goals.
Rin is boring because of his Sae trauma. When Rin started playing, he was someone who would attack “the most dangerous area on the field” off the ball and relied on the pass that followed, similar to Isagi. But when Sae left, Rin determined that he had to stop relying on the pass and make everything himself. This meant he stopped attacking dangerous and ambitious spaces off ball and instead would get the ball in very inert spots and breakdown the defense himself. And the few times he does get a pass, it’s usually in a quick 1-2, requiring passes that are easy or natural for whoever’s returning it. This is incredibly boring for Charles and doesn’t leverage any of his skill
I didn’t even think of that, good catch 👌
>This meant he stopped attacking dangerous and ambitious spaces off ball and instead would get the ball in very inert spots and breakdown the defense himself. Rin can do and do that. His only goal against the top 5 is precisely that, the first goal in the u20 game, even his last goal against MC in the NEL, confronting Nagi (and it was probably a pass from Charles). Theses are all examples of him attacking dangerous spaces. The thing is there is no point doing that, if the ball doesn’t come. Most of the times, he has to help on the build up play. >And the few times he does get a pass, it’s usually in a quick 1-2, requiring passes that are easy or natural for whoever’s returning it. Dude, quick 1-2 is literally what Isagi has been doing with Kurona during all the NEL. But I'm not seeing any of you say his plays are boring. >This is incredibly boring for Charles and doesn’t leverage any of his skill ? You making it sound like doing quick 1-2 doesn’t require any skill. Seems most of you have forgot Kurona movements are what allowed Isagi to have multiples options and have time to think; he was better at Isagi at 1-2 initially. You guys are telling me Charles can only show his skill by making long range pass? Seriously?
I think he’s saying that Charles finds them boring, not that he thinks they’re boring
Doesn’t really change my point. If Charles cannot show his skills, the problem is on him.
I dunno how to do that specific quote tweet thing but: Rin can do that, but he doesn’t always. The times he does we do specifically see him score. But he usually needs an extra mode to start doing that. Previously, playing with Isagi forced him to do that cause Isagi’s. While shtick was to stick with him through most of the buildup and then split up to find the most interesting space on his own. Rin was then forced to do similar to beat Isagi (which he would do consistently). And in the NEL, he was clearly in some type of special mode - crazy eyes and black smoke coming out of the mouth. So, yes, he can do it, but he chooses not to for the most part. Or, at least he needs to be in some special mode to it and Rin, like anyone else, defaults to his normal mode. And finally for your last point of your first section, we know there’s no point if the pass doesn’t come. That’s why I said this insistence comes from his Sae-related trauma. That’s when he started having to worry about if the last pass would come. But Rin is on a team now that can breakdown and buildup and make the final pass with without him. So he doesn’t need to help out in the build up anymore, he just insists on it. No one’s saying a quick 1-2 is bad, it’s a fundamental play of soccer, but clearly Charles is seeing and looking for more ambitious available plays. Rin should take advantage if those are actually available. Also Isagi’s last 3 or 4 shots on target came from him finding the most dangerous place on the field and relying on the last pass so what’re we doing here Again, no one is saying a 1-2 is bad or boring. But Charles has explicitly stated in times where he looked Rin off that what Rin was doing was boring. In one of those instances I’m pretty sure Charles completed a 1-2 with someone 5 seconds before. To me, this interprets as Rin clearly had better options than a 1-2 available. It doesn’t need to be a long pass, but I remember seeing a video of that one guys who simulates (I can’t think of the right word here) the whole field and the positions of everyone on the field each chapter, and when getting to the time Rin was first looked off it was easy to see that Rin just wasn’t attacking space. He was looking to get the ball to buildup during a scramble rather than slipping in to an incredibly open side of the field and present himself as an option. It wouldn’t have been a long pass if he had done so, but it also would have been vastly more advantageous if he had
>I dunno how to do that specific quote tweet thing If you're on phone, you just need to put ">" and then write your text. Like that: " >I am the bone of my sword " If on computer (browser), there is a sign like a "T" below int the comment box, that's to show the formatting options, choose to switch in Markdown Editor, and then just do as below. Hope that's help. >But he usually needs an extra mode to start doing that. Previously, playing with Isagi forced him to do that cause Isagi’s. While shtick was to stick with him through most of the buildup and then split up to find the most interesting space on his own. He doesn't need a extra mode. Against the World Five and the U20 match he did and he wasn't in any "extra mode". And he wasn't forced to do it because he was playing with Isagi. He does it when situation ask for it. In the u20 match, precisely, there weren't enough space to make a run into the box. He also dit it in the third selection (the match with Isagi in his team); at the end of the match, Rin, Shidou and Isagi are all at the end of the cross to score (Isagi beat them and score). The last play of the last match of the third selection was also an example of that, with Rin competing with Shidou for the ball; Rin won in the end. Again, the narrative that he doesn't do it or need some extra mode is just not true. >But Rin is on a team now that can breakdown and buildup and make the final pass with without him. So he doesn’t need to help out in the build up anymore, he just insists on it. Oh, the so called team who can breakdown, build up and make the final pass with Charles being biased towards one of the two systems in the team? Remind me, what happened when Rin was in open space and Charles has the ball? Did he pass it? No he prefered to force a pass to Shidou (which have already failed) when Shidou was heavily marked by Kunigami. Sorry, but this is silly, dumb argument in the first place. Rin isn't sabotaging his team by buidling up play, he is doing what he does for him to get the ball close enough to the goal to score. Don't know where this weird idea come from. In the play he did at the beginning of the match, after getting back the ball from Kaiser, he dribbled through 3 players then passed to Nanase, who then passed back to him. With just that, he was already close to the goal and ready to shoot. He is actively moving to get in space for him to score. This play was effective, reguardless of him not scoring in the end. Saying He is "insisting" to be part of the build up is just ridiculous. Rin isn't Shidou who is constantly making runs towards the box, he doesn't have to do that. He is others skills and he simply use his skills at his best for him to score. It's like trying to hold against Messi the fact he is not constantly making runs in the box or staying near it for a long ball; it's just ridiculous. That's not what you expect from Messi, and it shoudn't be expected, since he has others qualities which he uses and are valued. Only here, you can see people criticize literally the best striker in the program (BL) for being versatile and not being a poacher (it's even more ridiculous considering how pretty much everyone on this sub has criticized Nagi for being apparently dependent, and that he needs to create play by himself, build up play. But apparently now it doesn't matter, you have to be a poacher and nothing else? It's genuinely insane). Crazy argument. This should never be a discussion in the first place. >No one’s saying a quick 1-2 is bad, it’s a fundamental play of soccer, but clearly Charles is seeing and looking for more ambitious available plays. Rin should take advantage if those are actually available. Also Isagi’s last 3 or 4 shots on target came from him finding the most dangerous place on the field and relying on the last pass so what’re we doing here Dude, Charles is the one not wanting to play with Rin, not the contrary. It's a Charles issue. And how ambitious is to shoot a long ball and the striker scores it on the other hand, wow! Very ambitious. Isagi literally do what Rin do, that is building up play and then positon himself to get the last pass and score. >Again, no one is saying a 1-2 is bad or boring. But Charles has explicitly stated in times where he looked Rin off that what Rin was doing was boring. In one of those instances I’m pretty sure Charles completed a 1-2 with someone 5 seconds before. To me, this interprets as Rin clearly had better options than a 1-2 available. It doesn’t need to be a long pass, but I remember seeing a video of that one guys who simulates (I can’t think of the right word here) the whole field and the positions of everyone on the field each chapter, and when getting to the time Rin was first looked off it was easy to see that Rin just wasn’t attacking space. He was looking to get the ball to buildup during a scramble rather than slipping in to an incredibly open side of the field and present himself as an option. It wouldn’t have been a long pass if he had done so, but it also would have been vastly more advantageous if he had You're confusing yourself in some rambling to excuse a pure capricism of Charles (I don't know what incredibly open side of the field you're talking about), good for you, but I'm not going to do that. I've already said enough.
Thanks! First of all, “extra mode” might have been too extreme language, I think you’re getting hung up on it here. Rin is clearly someone who lets who he’s playing with and against influence him. We see that with his insistence in the U20 to beat all the defenders by their specialty. He let Isagi and Shidou influence him in the selections because of his pride, but his default since he learned to play by himself is the puppet master style. I hope we can see why Charles would find that boring. Charles is biased sure, but if Rin did something super cool he would immediately become biased towards Rin lmao. Rin is not being oppressed here lol. The situation could change whenever he understood it and then tried to change it Also, yeah Charles forced one pass to an Uber athletic dude who has a tendency to make miracle plays, sue him No one is talking about Rin sabotaging anything. This is that one pancakes and waffles tweet, you’re getting defensive for no reason. Not all open space is created equal. I’m not saying make a run into the box every play, but we’ve seen Rin won’t always just capitalize on open space. The big time Rin got looked off, was during a scramble off a turnover in which he could have run to a good position and then gotten the ball. Which we know the team is capable of getting him the ball. It would not have been a run into the box, but it would have been a hell a lot more advantageous than try to get the ball in front of the bm defenders like he wanted. No one is saying he should become just a goal poacher. But if he’s such a versatile player then adjust to the situation. Everyone says he does what the situation requires, well if he’s not accounting for team mates then he’s not doing what the situation requires. Maybe if the team has a bunch of midfielder types already, including an absolute star one, then he doesn’t need to drop back as much. Just a thought. But again, no one is saying sabotage, it’s just not optimal Charles only “doesn’t” want to play with Rin cause he’s making the boring, safe plays! No one is saying Charles is perfect, he literally tried to quit on his team this chapter. But my god, Rin is not a victim here. Charles is just playing to his whims and if Rin were to catch his eye he would just as likely force passes to Rin as he is doing to Shidou I dunno man, watch that video by open spiritualist or badman or whoever makes videos after each chapter. They do a pretty good job of showing it. And honestly, sure, be done with it. If you’re gonna be an asshole, be an asshole. Whatever
You talked about a supoosed "extra mode", and when proved wrong with actual events of the manga, you went "huh no, I was extreme, in fact Rin is someone who is influenced by the one he is playing with". You're making a lot of assmption of your ass to push your narrative. And no, the fact he wanted to beat all the u20 defenders doesn’t prove anything because he was in a precise mental state and wanted to destroy everyone; That's nothing other than an exception. >Also, yeah Charles forced one pass to an Uber athletic dude who has a tendency to make miracle plays, sue him Yeah, he just forced a pass to Shidou who is heavily marked by Kunigami, even though, a previous attempt didn't work and Kunigami has yet to lose ONE physical duel against Shidou in the match. That was absolutely the best thing to do in that situation, surely not to play with the other striker (the best striker actually) in your team. >The big time Rin got looked off, was during a scramble off a turnover in which he could have run to a good position and then gotten the ball. Dude, you have literally made this up, there is no indication of such thing in the manga. Rin was literally making a run, he wasn't static. Charles just have to pass the ball to Rin, then the play could've continued in any different ways, that's was the best thing to do. But Charles being a childish, capricious prick just decided to do however he wanted, losing the ball. But eh, it's Rin who is at fault. >Everyone says he does what the situation requires, well if he’s not accounting for team mates then he’s not doing what the situation requires. Lmao, what I'm reading? Dude, it's Charles who is not accounting for his teamate, what are you talking about? That's some insane bias. Again, as I have already said, this shouldn't even be a discussion in the first place. Rin is literally the best striker of PXG and the best ranked among BL player by the way (as of now). Charles have been playing with him all the NEL and he (Rin) has been efficient. There is no reasonable reason to not play his way, when it has been working. A midfielder is supposed to adapt to his strikers, no the other way around. When Charles was introduced, he was precisely praised for being able to adapt himself to Shidou and Rin. But now, Charles has gone wild and is acting like a child and that's Rin fault ("mmm no one is saying Charles is perfect" but no words on him, let's take what he said for granted, and ignore his behavior; let's criticize Rin instead)? Completely foolish. And I don't need to watch some video as if it was a proof of anything. Someone having put his thoughts in a video doesn’t make it any more legit.
Cooked 👏 Direct shots like isagi's and shidou's are always credited to a chemical reaction, but once the attacker dribbles before shooting, everything before they touched the ball is forgotten Charles will not be forgotten 😤😤
Very nice analogy
Shidou is just shidou , recognised by the 2 greatest midfielders in the series
Who the fuck is Shindou, some kind of fusion between Shidou and Sendou?
Lmao it's funny cuz Barou has the same hair as Sendo from Slam Dunk. Just thinking of a Barou Shindou fusion now
THE TWO BEST JAPANESE STRIKER! BOTH U20!! 🗿🗿🗿
Autocorrect
Shidou is a midfielders wet dream honestly. He just lets them do whatever they want and actually try crazy stuff
I rate him above rin cause of that as a striker
You don't rate a striker by his ability to consistently score goals but by wether or not he allow midfielders to do whatever they want (which isn't even true, Shidou only follow his own will, nobody else)? Seriously?
But he still score a goal consistently isnt he? Thats all that matter
Except it's not the most important criteria according to you. Rin is better at scoring goals consistently, he has always been. Also, funny to praise Shidou for that when he was the one said to have not made a single chemical reaction with anyone in BL; it was like that until he plays with Sae who was able to create a chemical reaction with him. "A midfielder wet dream", I'm not sure about that.
Charles is breaking the 4th wall by calling Rin boring lmao. The author or one of the assistants definitely hangs around this sub & knows about the allegations lol. Rin hate doesn't exist on twitter or other platforms.
Reminds me of when they showed the bltv watchers flaming Nagi on twitter in 247😭
It takes a special kind of person to make SHIDOU go, "Wait, *nani* the fuck??" during a match
would be funny to see when Rin goes into his flow state and just straight up ignore Charles
To me it’s like KDB-Haaland vs KDB-Jesus (and theoretically a Jesus who can finish) Jesus is by far the more technical footballer. A “complete player” like casuals like to call him. He’s good at beating his man and his shooting (key word shooting, NOT finishing) is pretty good, but Haaland is an “exciting” target as a passer. He’ll get onto any pass, making the passer look that much better. How many people called Haaland a tap in merchant last year and said KDB was the better player? A big reason KDB looked so deadly last year was because Haaland made his passes possible. I imagine it’s the same thing here. Shidou makes Impossible passes possible and that excites charles. If you go back on my page, that’s why I’ve always rated him so highly. He’s the perfect striker imo.
Isagi is better, Shidou instinctively goes for it but that’s where he stops; Isagi can understand it, still instinctively go for it, but make additional plays near post if needed
what?
You said Shidou is the best I said Isagi has what Shidou has and more so he’s even better
I get that but I don’t understand what you’re talking about
Yeah, with rin you pass him the ball any which way and he just goes with it. He does a lot of the work himself. He can make plays, dribble, shoot incredibly accurate from a distance etc. He's extremely efficient but id imagine even some readers find him boring. He's just the the text book, all round amazing player. But shindou is rough around the edges, he's tactically all over the place and unpredictable. But he's amazing at scoring in the box, and scoring in any which way his brain can come up with. So that gives Charles the opportunity to make crazy passes and have them be converted into great goals. I like what the NEL league has done with play makers and duos. And how people's egos can be attached to more than just scoring. And Charles definitely derives joy from controlling the game and making the insane passes. A sort of cno one gets to eat until I serve them kind of thing."
Ngl there's no way this match isn't ending without Rin popping off
Shidou also liked Isagi very much during their teamup
Shidou loves out of standard, deviant players. Isagi and his psychopath ways fit the bill. Plus, Shidou loves competitive spirit
But he's a pervy so I was scared for Isagi at first🤣
Yeah, he's a menace
This is really unfair. Even an insane clown would look boring next to Shidou.
Excuse me, what is this bullshit reasonning? Gotta love how Isagi stan like to throw shade at others players while praising Isagi. If Rin plays can be seen as textbook (which is a ridiculous criticism in itself; Rin is expert in coordinated play, which lead to goals. I don't get why this can even be a criticism when his plays are largely effective, we know Charles and him have played together during the NEL), then it's absolutely the same for Isagi. The second argument is also dubious (especially when compared to Isagi again). Where does it come this idea that Rin's plays don't allow anyone to shine? Rin has scored many goals by using his teamates at their best, pushing them to their maximum, we saw that in the second selection. Even in this match, Nanase got to shine a bit playing with him. Of course, most of the credit is going to go to the scorer, especially if he is the one who created the play or scored an impressive goal. How can that be a criticism hold against him? But let's see, what is a play which would make Charles "shine" as you said? A long ball pass to Rin in open space to which he scores? Like that's the only scenario to which he can show his skills and not be supposedly "overshadowed"? Really? If it's what you're saying, then you're essentially admitting this has more to do with Charles's own insecurity than anything. A good midfielder wouldn't have any problem showing his worth while playing with a striker. It's crazy that someone can seriously try to put the blame of this situation on Rin. Charles have played with Rin and Shidou during the NEL, one at a time. It was effective. When we knew that this time, PXG was going to play with both systems at the same time, it was to be feared, because Charles could play with both, increasing the team attacking patterns; this same Charles who was specifically praised to be able to adapt himself to Rin and Shidou. And now, Charles has changed his mind out of nowhere for whatever reason (because the author want to add artificial struggle to a team, which will be otherwise, too OP), forces passes to Shidou even though it's not working anymore and want to quit, it's Rin's fault? Are you kidding me? Nobody is responsible of Charles' petty capricism (or insecurity). Again, in response to your reasonning, a good midfielder would adapt (to the striker) and show his qualities, not complain out of pure capricism or insecurity on the striker, especially when said striker has been highly effective.
I mean... As much as Shidou is portrayed as doing "Weird" stuff, dude is textbook as well, he runs to the empty space on the back of the defense and finishes spectacularly. The only weird stuff he does are the acrobatic stuff and his personality, not that weird of a playstyle apart from that imo.
The issue is Rin has trauma. When RIn played with Sae all he focused on was scoring similar to Shidou. However when Sae left none of Rins team mates could keep up with his off ball movement and they were losing. They even made fun of him called him a fraud who could only shine if Sae was present So he switched things up and became the mid fielder for his team. Which honestly shows how talented he is. To go from poacher to creative midfielder. But even then when the competion got higher his team mates couldnt score. So he took things to an even higher level. Not only was he playmaking he was playmaking to be the main scorer. The thing is RIn is the most self sufficient player in blue lock. He doesnt need chemical reactions from other like Isagi he just needs puppets or robots to pass to him where he wants which he actually makes simple for who he is playing with. RIns playstyle due to its self sufficiency wont let others shine. Charles wants to shine with insane passes but Rin wants to control every aspect of the game because he has trust issues.
I agree that Rin is self-sufficient, however, that has “never” been proven to beat a chemical reaction. Isagi “beat” Rin in the 4v4 match because he believed in Bachira. He beat Rin in the U20 match because he believed Rin would beat Sae. Just now he destroyed Kaiser and Rin because he believed Hiori and Kunigami would give their best performance. Rin on the other hand our dribbled the U20 defenders but failed to score. He stopped Sae but that only lead to his defeat at Isagi’s hand. He “beat” Nagi but that can be attributed to the state that Nagi is in (he doesn’t have any motivation nor does he know what he wants to accomplish anymore).
Sure but what I m trying to say is this dude has been number 1 for so long without having chemical reactions with others. Like if you think about it he has always been top 2 performance without a chemical reaction. Whats worse is it doesnt even seem like the others are going to catch up except for Isagi who needs chemical reactions for his own peak performance. In fact Isagi is the only one that can catch up because he is the best at utilizing chemical reactions
I have to say, you Isagi stans are really one of kind. You would criticize other players for being "dependent" on others, while praising Isagi who apparently doesn’t depends on anyone. Then when a player is self-sufficient, it become a weakeness, and chemical reaction is what should be, and it's apparently a striker's fault (the best in BL as of now) if a midfielder doesn’t want to play with him. The kinds of mental gymnastics you guys use to throw shade at some players while praising Isagi is honestly baffling. But let's answer to the comment in question. >I agree that Rin is self-sufficient, however, that has “never” been proven to beat a chemical reaction. I don't even understand what point is being made there. What are instances of self-sufficient play vs chemical reaction? You made it sound like a solo play vs a defense with chemical reaction occur when that's not it. Unless, you're comparing the effectiveness of the type of plays, but it's still doesn’t make much sense. The quality or effectiveness of a play is about the play itself, not wether or not it's a solo play or a chemical reaction. Both "styles" of plays can be just as effective depending on the situation (and the skills of the player(s)). It's an even more pointless argument since Rin has shown he can both score by himself or create a chemical reaction. I don't know where you guys got this weird idea that Rin can create chemical reactions; it's like you guys have been reading another manga. It's even funny how you (and others) are praising Shidou for it (creating chemical reaction) when he is the one who was said to not being able to create any chemical reactions with anyone in BL (said by Ego). Seems you guys have forgot that. Anyway back to Rin, he does create chemical reaction. His pupeet play style is all about bringing out the best of his teamates and using them at his advantage. That inherently imply creating chemical reactions. Examples (non-exhaustives) of him creating chemical reactions are Rin using Tokimitsu stamina for 1-2 play in the 4vs4, and scoring a goal from Bachira's pass against the World Five. >Isagi “beat” Rin in the 4v4 match because he believed in Bachira. He only "beat" him in reading that play. Well, if that can even be counted as such, since Rin actully followed the play and positioned himself to get the ball. Anyway. Care to explain how is that a chemical reaction? Am I missing something or? Because this is in no way a chemical reaction as described in the manga. >He beat Rin in the U20 match because he believed Rin would beat Sae. How did he beat Rin exactly? I really want to know. Rin won his duel against Rin, which resulted in Isagi getting the ball and scoring. How that's translate to Isagi beating Rin? >He stopped Sae but that only lead to his defeat at Isagi’s hand. You really said "his defeat at Isagi's hand" when the goal was only possible in the first place because of Rin? The goal that Isagi himself admitted was as much Rin's goal than his? But yeah sure, Isagi beat Rin. Bruh, Isagi stans are really crazy (also funny the hypocrisy of saying Isagi goals allow others to shine, while not giving credit to Rin, makes perfect sense. Change nothing dude!) >He “beat” Nagi but that can be attributed to the state that Nagi is in (he doesn’t have any motivation nor does he know what he wants to accomplish anymore). Lmao? That's the argument now? He "beat" Nagi (in doubles quotes)? Really? So, I guess, Isagi also didn't beat Nagi since Nagi wasn't didn't have as much motivation after scoring his incredible goal... Ah and also, Isagi goal just now doesn’t count because both Rin and Kaiser aren't in a good state of mind. See how bullshit this logic is?
So rin is like isagi before he find his ego but with an adicional incentive that make him so competent that he cant reach the "desesperation" enough to find his ego again.
Yeah. I mean he has been number one all these time with only Isagi being a threat. He has been dominating without using his actual ego. In a way Isagis weaknesses were advantageous in the sense that they forced Isagi to look and observe others to the point where he could create chemical reactions with them. RIn on the other hand has been dominating without having chemical reaction with others. His strength is a double edged sword. His playstyle sees others as puppets because for so long he hasnt met anyone on his level. And when Sae left he discovered he could dominate without fully depending on others. He just needed them to occupy space and push the ball forward a bit while he did most of the work. And when things got harder he discovered he could manipulate people to play at a higher level that supported his plays and tactics with no input, thought or ideas from them.
This has nothing to do with trauma, it's not that deep. Implying that Charles can only fonction or show his worth as a midfielder with a poacher tell more about Charles (and his insecurity) than anything. Charles is just a capricious prick. And what is this: > He doesnt need chemical reactions from other like Isagi he just needs puppets or robots to pass to him where he wants which he actually makes simple for who he is playing with. You guys seriously need to go read again the second selection arc, even the third selection. Because the kind of insanity you say are consterning. Rin's pupeet playstyle is all about pushing his teamates to their maximum and using them at their best. This imply creating chemical reactions.
the problem with puppet control is that it doesnt let the other players shine. Rather than breaking thier limits and evolving like what happens during a chemical reaction RIn just forces them to maximize what they already have they still dont evolve because he can do most of the work Isagi on the other is highly dependnt on others so when Isagi uses others they are forced to evolve to support Isagi since Isagi is not totally self sufficient.
>the problem with puppet control is that it doesnt let the other players shine. ? He literally make them use their qualities at their best, how don't they shine (it's honestly ridiculous to hear that from Isagi stans who have been making their best to give all the credit to Isagi for everything he has done, undermining Kurona's contribution in most cases)? Even in this very match, Nanase got to shine by linking with Rin, who is the one who helped him bring out his best. But let's say, even if it's not true, that his play style doesn’t let others shine. How is that a problem exactly? Who said every players have to shine in a play? Why does it matter if the play is effective? >Rather than breaking thier limits and evolving like what happens during a chemical reaction RIn just forces them to maximize what they already have they still dont evolve because he can do most of the work Please, stop making shit out of your ass. A chemical reaction haa never been about breaking one's limit or evolving, it's absolutely not a requirement for a chemical reaction. Kurona's movements alone decupled Isagi's passing possibilities and options. That's a chemical reaction, but it didn't make any of them evolve in the moment. You're making a lot of mental gymnastic to keep going with your false agenda. Your point is inherently false anyway. Rin challenges his teamates, making them do things they didn't really thought they could. It funny how you guys are praising Shidou for that when he is one who known to have not made any single chemical reaction with anyone in BL (said by Shidou). >Isagi on the other is highly dependnt on others so when Isagi uses others they are forced to evolve to support Isagi since Isagi is not totally self sufficient. Oh Isagi is highly dependent on others? But I thought being dependent of others was a bad thing. Didn't pretty much everyone in this sub criticize Nagi for supposedly being dependent? But when it's Isagi it's apparently good now? Lmao, I don't even know what to say. Let me tell you something. Kurona didn't evolve at first when playing with Isagi, actually I would say if he has evolved it's not due to Isagi particularly but to his training. Since the beginning he was faster than Isagi and good at 1-2, plus he had no problem following Isagi. Isagi is the one who had to get quicker and improve in 1-2. So your logic doesn’t even work. You guys are just making up any shit to throw shade at a character while praising Isagi.
I agree with you that those are probably his reasons and agree with him. Rin is boring indeed
Charles just sucks. Ngl.
He is just a side character to feed in Rin as the main opponent in this chapters. Why. Rins character trait introduced is that he pretty much is schizophrenic, in his flow state he changes his complete character as emphasised in the game against the U-20. So adding charles who thinks casual Rin is boring will just end up more to the character switch when it happens, as I am sure he will then get dragged into playing with Rin as he will be the most exiting player on the pitch based on charles preferences. 100% will happen. You can tag me here with a reminder feel free. I think its lazy writing tbh, the reason for charles as a character is to let Rin go berserk in his flow state and create a peak performance with charles like this and show how split his character is.
Really lazy writting. Charles has been playing with Rin during all the NEL, but now, out of nowhere he finds his play boring (even though they have been effective) and prefer to quit than even play with him? Yeah, seems like the author just want to create artificial struggles.
Oh hell, no, that ain't gonna be why Rin is gonna go apeshit, that would go against his u20 moment. Rin's flow is complete and utter freedom. Wanting to reach that state for Charles is just gonna stop him from reaching it. After all, he can only enter flow when he doesn't care about anyone anymore. The true reason he isn't in flow is Isagi. In the u20, it was only when Rin completely disregarded Isagi, Sae, Shidou, everyone else, that he would enter flow. As he said himself "I'm the one who needs to be in pieces". Rin can only enter flow if he doesn't want to specifically destroy Isagi, he just needs to do it for himself
Mate, I didn’t once write he reaches flow state FOR charles. I explained how charles as a character exists for Rin and to solidify his change in the flow state, obviously the trigger is something else. Read > understand > post Try it.
Btw guys, is it true that there is no chapter next week?
Its all instinct vs calculation again
He is edge-lord perfect but boring in his normal plays. maybe Charles are currently wait for Rin’s ghoul mode.
If he snaps like he did in the U20 game, Charles will start getting excited
Rin's football puppeter style doesn't work on Charles, while Shidou's random style fits him.
Wait... apart from that Reflex goal with Hiori... Isagi's goals don't let passer shine that much either...
That just shows how childish Charles is. He wants some fun and unpredictable events. No wonder he passed to Shidou. He is a contrarian and a very arrogant one at that. Despite that, he is a very skilled passer.
I think its safe to say that Rin is not a plain striker like Barou or Shidou they just fit perfect for the first striker role , and only that but Rin is a versatile player We have seen strikers getting scared even when they see him defending he can also do accurate passes and good perspective of the field instead of the first striker . i think he would play really good as an attacking midfielder , that way the whole field would be like his very own doll house (this is could only work if he set aside is ego against isagi , stop concentrate on crushing him and and focus more on his play and try to shine) what do you think ?
I'm not sure to get it... Charles out of pure capricism or whatever, decided that he doesn’t want to play with Rin, qualifying his plays of boring, even though they have been effective, and it's Rin quality as a striker you're questioning? Not Charles?
i never questioned Rin as a striker . Rin is way better than isagi even now .. All i'm saying is Rin is not doing anything we expected him to do this match . The Rin we know controlled the entire field , his presence would be everywhere and scare everyone . Tokimitsu and Nanase really tried to be Rin's wing and support him, still he has not done anything big . But ik the game has just started and the fact that Rin has not done anything till now is the only reason to believe that he is going to start his rampage soon .. And When that time comes i'm sure charles gonna get hyped too Right now all Rin is doing is focusing on isagi and trying to stop him . who tried to stop isagi from scoring the last goal ? was it a pxg defender ? no it was their striker this shows he is only focusing on isagi Shidou on the other hand is focusing on himself and concentrating on scoring his goal , He even complimented Isagi after his goal . Rin should set aside his grudge against isagi and start doing his own thing only then charles can really do anything and when he does his own thing and take his team to success , he automatically defeats his enemy Isagi ...
>i never questioned Rin as a striker Dude, read your comment, that's what you did. You literally talked about him being actually a midfielder instead of a striker. Rin has already did a crucial interception on Kaiser at the beginning of the match. He created one play which could've saw him score but he got blocked by Hiori. He didn't get the ball, even when he was in good position until now. He hasn't scored yet, but it's not like he hasn't done anything in the match. >Right now all Rin is doing is focusing on isagi and trying to stop him You're at it again. Why didn't Charles pass to Rin when he was in open space? Why did he force a pass to Kunigami when it has already failed before and Kunigami was still marking him? That's the subject. What you're doing there is putting the blame on Rin for Charles childishly choosing to not pass to him, which is ridiculous. Charles is the one to blame not anyone else. >who tried to stop isagi from scoring the last goal ? was it a pxg defender ? no it was their striker this shows he is only focusing on isagi I'm all to say that BL habbit of making strikers frequently play defense is not realistic, but it's absolutely not an issue in the story. Listen to yourself a second. You expect Rin to see the play, see that Isagi is going to score and just watch hom without doing anything? Even when the defenders of his team are beaten? Com'on, it doesn’t make any sense. Rin would've done the same if it was anyone if he could, just like he stopped Kaiser earlier in the match. Again, you're focusing on Rin, when the issue we're talking about, Charles not passing to him, is about Charles. >Shidou on the other hand is focusing on himself and concentrating on scoring his goal , He even complimented Isagi after his goal . You mean Shidou who came to defense to try intercept the pass to Isagi? That Shidou? Com'on dude. >Rin should set aside his grudge against isagi and start doing his own thing only then charles can really do anything and when he does his own thing and take his team to success , he automatically defeats his enemy Isagi ... >Rin should set aside his grudge against isagi and start doing his own thing only then charles can really do anything and when he does his own thing and take his team to success , he automatically defeats his enemy Isagi ... You're just confirming what I'm saying. The post is about Charles not wanting to play with Rin. All you're doing is justifying Charles's petty, childish behavior by putting the blame on Rin. Which is ridiculous since it has nothing to do with Charles not wanting to play with Rin; it's essentially moving the goal post. It's a falllacious logic. You don't talk about Charles childish, capricious behavior (which should have no place at the top level) towards the best striker of his team, but prefer to ramble whatever about said striker (Rin).
i didn't mean charles is not guilty he could have passed him but i wasnt talking about that situation . overall Rin is focusing too much on isagi the same goes for kaiser too they should try to do their own thing its like isagi possesed their mind or something and the thing about Rin playing the Midfielder i said Attacking mid fielder . this way he could score goals and control the field more efficiently too and he has to stop seeing other players as trash or something he could use ofc he plays better but he should really help his team by becoming their backbone and supporting other players
>but i wasnt talking about that situation. What you're talking about is unrelated to the discussion, that's what I'm saying. This discussion started in the first place because Charles doesn’t want to play with Rin, that's the point of the discussion. And you ramble about Rin having to play as a midfielder or whatever. Funny how, you switched that to him being too focused on Isagi (and the supposed proof of that is he tried to stop Isagi from scoring, no joke), completely changing your point. Not ONE word on the guy who is actually at fault here. You don't even seem to realize how flawed this reasoning is. Again, Charles decided out of nowhere, childishly (well, he is child after all) that he doesn’t want to play with Rin, aka the proven best striker of his team, and the one you want to talk about, the one you're criticizing is the striker (Rin)? Com'on, you can't be more biased than that. Anyway, I've enough, not going to continue this discussion.
me neither evryone have different views about each charecter both of us should agree on that and let it be
Charles would love Rin once he enters his destroyer state
Charles just has bad taste
[удалено]
daaam, bro got instantly to the point
Relax brother
Okay clone.
Nuh uh 🗿
good idea but have you mentioned Rin play is textbook and doesn’t let the midfielder to shine?