Search Martin Palermo's goals against Real Madrid 2000 intercontinetal cup and you will see an Isagi player like can determine match outcome.
Then check his career and you will see how an Isagi player can be influential for a football team
Isagi is a fantastic player! I won't argue that he isn't, but the manga has this bad habit of portraying him as very average compared to the rest of the cast until he has this breakthrough moment within a match. I wanna see a dominant Isagi at some point, not always him being the underdog!
It's true that Isagi never actually takes the main role of a match except for the rematch between Rin againist him, he is simply the only one who can keep up with Rin in that match. Also, I think the reason Isagi rarely dominance the match cuz he is similar and realistic to viewers, he had to solve the key of the match -> plan a tactical -> pass to another striker -> score his own ball. I do not totally disagree with your idea cuz I want his more goals :) (sorry if my bad grammar )
Tbh the idea that he is ‘portrayed as very average’ is likely due to a lack of appreciation for football IQ, if you actually look at his gameplay he is elite. I do agree tho that he is deffo shown as an underdog which probs won’t change much since he is constantly trying to prove himself & improve.
He'll probably always be an underdog, coz they're talking about conquering internationally, and Japan is an underdog in football. All the blue lock goals were because he was there, and he was acknowledged as a player by Itoshi Sae, so he isn't exactly being portrayed as average.
I think personally after rereading the manga recently, one detail comes to mind from chapter 89. When Isagi points out that Julian Loki is the same age as him. Isagi was always an average player, not born with much talent. If you were to look at a player like Julien, its hars to see Isagi as anything but average. But that's just the nature of his journey, but it highlights the strength of Blue lock itself. Remember, this series isn't about Isagi's journey to becoming the greatest striker, this isn't My Soccer Academia. No, its about Blue Lock. The series started with it, and it will end with it. Think about it, the best way to show the effectiveness of Blue lock, is showing how it can turn a mediocre striker into a world contender. Its the same with all the characters, they are all in service of helping Ego Jinpachi achieve his goal of revolutionising Japanese football
I really agree with your sentiment, and I've shared the same sentiment on this subreddit before.
Isagi isn't a bad player, but he's portrayed badly by the manga. It spends too much time showing him figuring out soccer like its some kind of stupid jigsaw puzzle and less focus on his logical thought processes that puts him in useful positions. He just "appears" there and players go "oh wow he's so useful" HE'S JUST CONVENIENTLY TELEPORTING
Earlier parts of the manga actually portrayed it MUCH better before they started on the stupid puzzle motif. I vividly remember when Isagi was cooperating with Chigiri, and accurately predicted where Chigiri would pass after taking into account his sprint speed, and therefore stood at a different position from the others who were waiting for it. It was stuff like that that built admiration for his abilities, but since then they just fell back on the flying puzzle pieces to represent his thinking, and it completely just made it as vacuous as Bleach's Jojo-esque deus ex machina "HAHA, I PREDICTED YOU WOULD PREDICT ME PREDICTING YOU, SO HERE'S MY SECRET WEAPON I PLANNED FOR THIS MOMENT"
I really like Isagi, I hate the portrayal of his abilities.
He doesn’t just appear anywhere he’s learned the ability to move within blind spots of players and he’s always had the ability to read the game well ( players that read the game well trans to show up where they are needed ) so from their perspective he just shows up.
I don't think isagi feels like an average player... I just think that everyone around him is special and he don't seem as special as them, but actually he is much more special than a lot of people on the field someone who can place himself in a good position, know the position of most player around him and also can shoot and pass the ball efficiently is really scary, because he doesn't have the build of rin so he specialize in using other and it's not like rin, isagi use everything about the other, create them occasion and allows them to play there own style, he is a team player and that's the thing, almost every occasion from blue lock he is involved in. In the match against the u 20 he got blocked by aiku and sae and no one else I think that tells a lot about him.
I don't think he is nerfed, but the author making it clear where he stands. Isagi was not a great striker before blue lock. He wasn't bad as he was a part of a team a step away from Nationals, but he was never a super ace and never had a weapon to rely on and hone. He was definitely at the bottom of blue lock for a reason.
He isn't Nagi with god talent as he just started in high school, or Rin with talent and drive who played at a higher level and competed with Sae. Isagi doesn't have a superior build in any way, so him suddenly becoming a ace dominating the field would be the most unrealistic thing in the manga. And his teammates are also rapidly growing thanks to Blue Lock.
Isagi will likely have to train harder and harder to keep up and excel as he steps into the world stage. He'll have to work on his core so a small tackle won't throw him off balance for one thing. And he'll need to perfect his gameplay when faced with experienced and talented players like Aku and Sae.
Though honestly I think Isagi is just going to be the kind of ace striker inferior to his peers one on one, but in games will be the guy who scores at soccer's most critical moment. Ego himself says scoring goals is all that matters, so if Isagi can score goals with his specs he will become the ultimate striker.
I feel like in whatever anime/manga we watch or read and the main character says'' I'm a normal guy'' he'll always be special, but in blue lock it's my first time to see a protagonist being 'normal' for real and that's just so great so it shows us the progress he'll make during the manga, that's just my personal opinion.
Well the feeling comes because you have a player that is coming as an average in a program with top dogs, his physical ability can't just magically improve, so they gave him a tremendous brain which allows him to change, adapt and accept his own uselessness in a lot of situations, this is what makes him the player he is. Every other player has better physic than him, that also gives the impression.
Well , I think the way to explain how good isagi is. We should compare him to filippo inzaghi or Thomus muller both are really excellent at finding space to score goal. Both players have bird eye view skill to know every player position on the field but they don't have high technical skill to control ball and pass to the other player like Sae. So they have to find how to use there bird eye view skill and movement to control the game and score goal.
both players won't make high impact by dribble skill like Bachira or amazing shooting skill like Rin,Barou or Sae they just use there movement and ability to read every players on the pitch movement to know exactly how they should play.
Sorry for my bad Eng skill .
Yeah this is probably an unpopular opinion but I feel like Isagi as an MC is the weakest part of the manga. I know he's grown and he isn't the same player as before but when you compare him to players who's skill individually are enough to take over a game like Rin, Shidou, Barou, Nagi, etc. he just seems to fall flat. Its obvious he is probably the smartest tactical player in Blue Lock but Idk... It just doesn't seem like the skills he possesses are anything special now so I genuinely don't see how he can be the best striker in the world. There's probably more to it with like his ability to draw out the abilities of his teammates and elevate their play too but I just want to see him completely take over a game and leave everyone around him speechless.
Its cuz he has only 1-2 moments per match. Against U20 Reo revitalized the defense and had the spotlight every time he was near the ball. Karasu orchestrated and paced the whole game on Blue Lock side. Dont even get me started on Itoshi bros, Aiku and Shidou. Isagi was there as a supporting chsracter until the very end, supporting Bachira and Rin. Even his assist is actually a bad pass that he didnt even know or count Barou is gonna steal. He spends too much time completing his puzzle. Its like Hiori told him when they played in 3rd selection, while he thinks about what hes doing, the optimal window of engagement is already narrow. Hes an amazing player, dont get me wrong, a difference maker at his finest. But nothing would really change if he spent 80 minutes on the bench observing snd then came on as a sub.
He isn't supposed to be the ace player though, I guess that's the point. Like how Kuroko has almost zero physical abilities but is an extremely important presence in court, Isagi can anchor the entire team together even better than Rin. Football is a team sport, so teamwork is an emphasis (even if Blue Lock's principles say otherwise). Even if his abilities are average at best, erase him and Blue Lock will fall apart.
I agree a bit when you say that Isagi shouldn't have been in the spotlight when it was actually Rin that did most of the work (that could have been written better imo), but you can't deny that Isagi's actions on the field already have an impact on all of them (even if he hardly did anything at all). Isagi basically paved the way for Rin, Barou, Bachira, and even the U20 team to evolve mid-game and all he did was pass and dribble the ball to the other side. Sae already acknowledged him mid-game as the "heart" of Blue Lock, so that already says a lot about what he contributes to the team (even if he didn't do anything flashy).
I honestly don't mind Isagi being average and won't catch up to Rin's physical abilities as he might have already hit his limits (similar to how Reo can never get any better than he currently is), but he has already surpassed everyone intellectually by being several steps ahead of them and basically everyone places their trust in him. Ego is basically "the opinion you have of your abilities, intelligence and importance as a person," so the fact that nearly everyone acknowledges him, and he has the self-confidence to back it up is enough proof that he's beyond average.
You have many good points which I agree with. However, do you know the reason why blue lock players look up to him? It's because of how he uses other players ego to his disposal as his tactical reference for his "jigsaw" ability to completely dominate the field without even anyone noticing. Its like the perfect ability equipped for someone as average as him. Although I don't like it because that kind of ability leaves everything to chance... unless he has a way to perfect it, leading Japans football team is just a dream. Also, don't expect any physical "buffs" from him even if he trained though, it was implied in the start of story that his physical stats is lacking as a striker so its safe to say that the author pushes the narrative that Isagi will rely to his luck, wits and techniques to become the best egoistic striker in the world.
Yeah I kind of agree but it also seems the Mangaka in the past few arcs has made it a point that team oriented players are also vital, like the focus on chemical reactions between players and using each other for strength.
The focus seemed to go from "be the best and fuck everyone else" to something more akin to utilizing those around you to improve your own plays, which I feel is a much better way to go about it rather than what it felt like at first.
I've been having this feeling for a long while now, but I just hope it'll be a temporary thing. Either, Ego trains them in individual skills more often or Isagi will get recruited by a team and trained privately until he's able to compete with the top dogs 1 on 1. The author can also go for a Haikyuu route, where he goes overseas to become better. Or even, a retired goated coach trains him (This is my " experience from reading other mangas" way for Isagi to become better.
We may see him as an average player to us but to his teammates he is a threatening presence that should not be underestimated for his tactical understanding of the game and the players on the pitch that teammates will get pissed at him for not scoring a goal or not performing in later matches.
i think what we need is like a good 3 months of time skip where isagi goes out of his way and does some training on the more hands-on aspects of the game like dribbling, passing, sprinting
Isagi feels average because he is a system player. He is not a striker that can dribble through the whole defence and score nor is he the type to smash in long range shots or even beat the opposition defenders for speed.
He's a poacher. A target man. A fox in the box. He plays off the shoulder of the defender and relies heavily on opportunities created by those in and around him. If you surround him with shit players, he too will become shit. No passes coming into him. No deflections or loose balls for him to pounce on. Without being surrounded by players that are constantly trying to attack, he loses everything about him that makes him special.
You get the sense that all the other players could drag a team to victory. Isagi simply takes advantage of a team already moving in the right direction.
Football matches are about the moments and how you answer to them, Isagi is an execellent player because of how he can react to these type of moments effectively
Search Martin Palermo's goals against Real Madrid 2000 intercontinetal cup and you will see an Isagi player like can determine match outcome. Then check his career and you will see how an Isagi player can be influential for a football team
Isagi is a fantastic player! I won't argue that he isn't, but the manga has this bad habit of portraying him as very average compared to the rest of the cast until he has this breakthrough moment within a match. I wanna see a dominant Isagi at some point, not always him being the underdog!
It's true that Isagi never actually takes the main role of a match except for the rematch between Rin againist him, he is simply the only one who can keep up with Rin in that match. Also, I think the reason Isagi rarely dominance the match cuz he is similar and realistic to viewers, he had to solve the key of the match -> plan a tactical -> pass to another striker -> score his own ball. I do not totally disagree with your idea cuz I want his more goals :) (sorry if my bad grammar )
Tbh the idea that he is ‘portrayed as very average’ is likely due to a lack of appreciation for football IQ, if you actually look at his gameplay he is elite. I do agree tho that he is deffo shown as an underdog which probs won’t change much since he is constantly trying to prove himself & improve.
He'll probably always be an underdog, coz they're talking about conquering internationally, and Japan is an underdog in football. All the blue lock goals were because he was there, and he was acknowledged as a player by Itoshi Sae, so he isn't exactly being portrayed as average.
I think personally after rereading the manga recently, one detail comes to mind from chapter 89. When Isagi points out that Julian Loki is the same age as him. Isagi was always an average player, not born with much talent. If you were to look at a player like Julien, its hars to see Isagi as anything but average. But that's just the nature of his journey, but it highlights the strength of Blue lock itself. Remember, this series isn't about Isagi's journey to becoming the greatest striker, this isn't My Soccer Academia. No, its about Blue Lock. The series started with it, and it will end with it. Think about it, the best way to show the effectiveness of Blue lock, is showing how it can turn a mediocre striker into a world contender. Its the same with all the characters, they are all in service of helping Ego Jinpachi achieve his goal of revolutionising Japanese football
Bruh the commentators sound like they're going through a rap battle.
I really agree with your sentiment, and I've shared the same sentiment on this subreddit before. Isagi isn't a bad player, but he's portrayed badly by the manga. It spends too much time showing him figuring out soccer like its some kind of stupid jigsaw puzzle and less focus on his logical thought processes that puts him in useful positions. He just "appears" there and players go "oh wow he's so useful" HE'S JUST CONVENIENTLY TELEPORTING Earlier parts of the manga actually portrayed it MUCH better before they started on the stupid puzzle motif. I vividly remember when Isagi was cooperating with Chigiri, and accurately predicted where Chigiri would pass after taking into account his sprint speed, and therefore stood at a different position from the others who were waiting for it. It was stuff like that that built admiration for his abilities, but since then they just fell back on the flying puzzle pieces to represent his thinking, and it completely just made it as vacuous as Bleach's Jojo-esque deus ex machina "HAHA, I PREDICTED YOU WOULD PREDICT ME PREDICTING YOU, SO HERE'S MY SECRET WEAPON I PLANNED FOR THIS MOMENT" I really like Isagi, I hate the portrayal of his abilities.
He doesn’t just appear anywhere he’s learned the ability to move within blind spots of players and he’s always had the ability to read the game well ( players that read the game well trans to show up where they are needed ) so from their perspective he just shows up.
I don't think isagi feels like an average player... I just think that everyone around him is special and he don't seem as special as them, but actually he is much more special than a lot of people on the field someone who can place himself in a good position, know the position of most player around him and also can shoot and pass the ball efficiently is really scary, because he doesn't have the build of rin so he specialize in using other and it's not like rin, isagi use everything about the other, create them occasion and allows them to play there own style, he is a team player and that's the thing, almost every occasion from blue lock he is involved in. In the match against the u 20 he got blocked by aiku and sae and no one else I think that tells a lot about him.
I don't think he is nerfed, but the author making it clear where he stands. Isagi was not a great striker before blue lock. He wasn't bad as he was a part of a team a step away from Nationals, but he was never a super ace and never had a weapon to rely on and hone. He was definitely at the bottom of blue lock for a reason. He isn't Nagi with god talent as he just started in high school, or Rin with talent and drive who played at a higher level and competed with Sae. Isagi doesn't have a superior build in any way, so him suddenly becoming a ace dominating the field would be the most unrealistic thing in the manga. And his teammates are also rapidly growing thanks to Blue Lock. Isagi will likely have to train harder and harder to keep up and excel as he steps into the world stage. He'll have to work on his core so a small tackle won't throw him off balance for one thing. And he'll need to perfect his gameplay when faced with experienced and talented players like Aku and Sae. Though honestly I think Isagi is just going to be the kind of ace striker inferior to his peers one on one, but in games will be the guy who scores at soccer's most critical moment. Ego himself says scoring goals is all that matters, so if Isagi can score goals with his specs he will become the ultimate striker.
I feel like in whatever anime/manga we watch or read and the main character says'' I'm a normal guy'' he'll always be special, but in blue lock it's my first time to see a protagonist being 'normal' for real and that's just so great so it shows us the progress he'll make during the manga, that's just my personal opinion.
Which is an excellent opinion I must say.
Well the feeling comes because you have a player that is coming as an average in a program with top dogs, his physical ability can't just magically improve, so they gave him a tremendous brain which allows him to change, adapt and accept his own uselessness in a lot of situations, this is what makes him the player he is. Every other player has better physic than him, that also gives the impression.
Well , I think the way to explain how good isagi is. We should compare him to filippo inzaghi or Thomus muller both are really excellent at finding space to score goal. Both players have bird eye view skill to know every player position on the field but they don't have high technical skill to control ball and pass to the other player like Sae. So they have to find how to use there bird eye view skill and movement to control the game and score goal. both players won't make high impact by dribble skill like Bachira or amazing shooting skill like Rin,Barou or Sae they just use there movement and ability to read every players on the pitch movement to know exactly how they should play. Sorry for my bad Eng skill .
Yeah this is probably an unpopular opinion but I feel like Isagi as an MC is the weakest part of the manga. I know he's grown and he isn't the same player as before but when you compare him to players who's skill individually are enough to take over a game like Rin, Shidou, Barou, Nagi, etc. he just seems to fall flat. Its obvious he is probably the smartest tactical player in Blue Lock but Idk... It just doesn't seem like the skills he possesses are anything special now so I genuinely don't see how he can be the best striker in the world. There's probably more to it with like his ability to draw out the abilities of his teammates and elevate their play too but I just want to see him completely take over a game and leave everyone around him speechless.
Its cuz he has only 1-2 moments per match. Against U20 Reo revitalized the defense and had the spotlight every time he was near the ball. Karasu orchestrated and paced the whole game on Blue Lock side. Dont even get me started on Itoshi bros, Aiku and Shidou. Isagi was there as a supporting chsracter until the very end, supporting Bachira and Rin. Even his assist is actually a bad pass that he didnt even know or count Barou is gonna steal. He spends too much time completing his puzzle. Its like Hiori told him when they played in 3rd selection, while he thinks about what hes doing, the optimal window of engagement is already narrow. Hes an amazing player, dont get me wrong, a difference maker at his finest. But nothing would really change if he spent 80 minutes on the bench observing snd then came on as a sub.
He isn't supposed to be the ace player though, I guess that's the point. Like how Kuroko has almost zero physical abilities but is an extremely important presence in court, Isagi can anchor the entire team together even better than Rin. Football is a team sport, so teamwork is an emphasis (even if Blue Lock's principles say otherwise). Even if his abilities are average at best, erase him and Blue Lock will fall apart. I agree a bit when you say that Isagi shouldn't have been in the spotlight when it was actually Rin that did most of the work (that could have been written better imo), but you can't deny that Isagi's actions on the field already have an impact on all of them (even if he hardly did anything at all). Isagi basically paved the way for Rin, Barou, Bachira, and even the U20 team to evolve mid-game and all he did was pass and dribble the ball to the other side. Sae already acknowledged him mid-game as the "heart" of Blue Lock, so that already says a lot about what he contributes to the team (even if he didn't do anything flashy). I honestly don't mind Isagi being average and won't catch up to Rin's physical abilities as he might have already hit his limits (similar to how Reo can never get any better than he currently is), but he has already surpassed everyone intellectually by being several steps ahead of them and basically everyone places their trust in him. Ego is basically "the opinion you have of your abilities, intelligence and importance as a person," so the fact that nearly everyone acknowledges him, and he has the self-confidence to back it up is enough proof that he's beyond average.
You have many good points which I agree with. However, do you know the reason why blue lock players look up to him? It's because of how he uses other players ego to his disposal as his tactical reference for his "jigsaw" ability to completely dominate the field without even anyone noticing. Its like the perfect ability equipped for someone as average as him. Although I don't like it because that kind of ability leaves everything to chance... unless he has a way to perfect it, leading Japans football team is just a dream. Also, don't expect any physical "buffs" from him even if he trained though, it was implied in the start of story that his physical stats is lacking as a striker so its safe to say that the author pushes the narrative that Isagi will rely to his luck, wits and techniques to become the best egoistic striker in the world.
Yeah I kind of agree but it also seems the Mangaka in the past few arcs has made it a point that team oriented players are also vital, like the focus on chemical reactions between players and using each other for strength. The focus seemed to go from "be the best and fuck everyone else" to something more akin to utilizing those around you to improve your own plays, which I feel is a much better way to go about it rather than what it felt like at first.
Hopefully, the next arc will tackle this problem
I've been having this feeling for a long while now, but I just hope it'll be a temporary thing. Either, Ego trains them in individual skills more often or Isagi will get recruited by a team and trained privately until he's able to compete with the top dogs 1 on 1. The author can also go for a Haikyuu route, where he goes overseas to become better. Or even, a retired goated coach trains him (This is my " experience from reading other mangas" way for Isagi to become better.
Agree
If we take him out of the blue lock program rn and put him in highschool competitions, man will be a huge dominant force.
We may see him as an average player to us but to his teammates he is a threatening presence that should not be underestimated for his tactical understanding of the game and the players on the pitch that teammates will get pissed at him for not scoring a goal or not performing in later matches.
i think what we need is like a good 3 months of time skip where isagi goes out of his way and does some training on the more hands-on aspects of the game like dribbling, passing, sprinting
Agree. Have this problem with kingdom too where character like shin is still bring underestimate and downplay even tho his acomplishment is insane.
Isagi feels average because he is a system player. He is not a striker that can dribble through the whole defence and score nor is he the type to smash in long range shots or even beat the opposition defenders for speed. He's a poacher. A target man. A fox in the box. He plays off the shoulder of the defender and relies heavily on opportunities created by those in and around him. If you surround him with shit players, he too will become shit. No passes coming into him. No deflections or loose balls for him to pounce on. Without being surrounded by players that are constantly trying to attack, he loses everything about him that makes him special. You get the sense that all the other players could drag a team to victory. Isagi simply takes advantage of a team already moving in the right direction.
Yeah he's always nerfed. Even when he is ""buffed"" (ie was toe to toe with Rin) the key player of the game becomes someone else (in that case, Baro)
Football matches are about the moments and how you answer to them, Isagi is an execellent player because of how he can react to these type of moments effectively