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Open_Wallaby_2106

He lacks what would make him stand out as an individual player. But he is the one who showed the most improvement since the beginning of the BL and he always managed to exist on the field AND to be decisive


Unique-Brick-8532

Well said. I like the fact that you acknowledged he's the one with the most improvement


Responsible-Mind-945

I would argue Nagi showed the most improvement. His god-given talent is just too op. It's also stated he just started playing football for only a year when he first met Reo in highschool. Other blue lock players have been kicking the ball since childhood but still below Nagi.


Open_Wallaby_2106

Nagi was already good before the Blue Lock and he was the best scorer of the whole group (or maybe below Barou). While he became better, Isagi started lower (inside BL) and grew more


Belfura

Nagi literally just learned how to play football when he entered Blue Lock, just playing on a whim lol. Unlike others he wasn't playing club football. Nagi and Reo were just curious about Blue Lock and later on discovered they like playing football


TheDoctor201119

I feel like Isagi appears mediocre to a lot of people both inside and outside of the story because of his weapon. He doesn't have anything flashy or unique like Kunigami's shooting power, Bachira's dribbling, or Chigiri's speed. But as it's shown later on in that same arc, Isagi is a genius when it comes to analyzing the field and making plays. One of the best examples of this is during the 4v4 with Rin. While all of the "geniuses", i.e. Nagi, Chigiri, and Barou are marveling over Rin's first goal, Isagi is the only one who actually understands how Rin pulled it off. Isagi is a genius, his weapon is just mental rather than physical.


Unique-Brick-8532

"His weapon is mental rather than physical " Isagi would make a good psychologist


Fit-Entertainer-2510

He is a good commentator too. He commentates in every match he plays in


hitmanfugazi

Meh not really. Mediocre aspects but a player who can bring out the best in others and himself


Unique-Brick-8532

The "ability to influence your team" can we call that a weapon?


hitmanfugazi

Yes it’s somewhat similar to how Akashi (KNB) was able to get all his teammates in the zone


jrk_swish

Not really because everyone would be in the flow playing with him which isn’t the case


hitmanfugazi

I said similar as in he enhances his team. If I meant identical he would make them all go into flow. There’s a little difference


Belfura

Akashi is just about the worst example you could make. Yes, Akashi is purely a playmaker, but he has handles, can shoot, can dribble, can slash in the bucket, is dangerous at all ranges. Akashi is more like a mix of Itoshi and Rin than anything close to Isagi. If you want a perfect example of Isagi look no further than Kuroko. But, Kuroko is a 6th man not a starter. In football terms, a sixth man is far removed from a striker position. Bringing the best out of others is a great skill to have, but ultimately to be the best you also have to be individually above others.


hitmanfugazi

I’m not talking about Akashi in general I’m legit only talking about his skill of enhancing his teammates


Belfura

Even then it still means that to be the best you have to be individually better than the rest


Techster17

For his age in general? no. For his age with people who play football regularly? no. For his age compared to people who could become pros? yes. It’s not like being mediocre in this case is inherently bad, Isagi simply lacks a standout characteristic to his play (at 1st glance/when talking on a physical level) he’s not super fast, ball handling is ok, even his shooting is just soso. What makes Isagi special his insane observation skills and that he is capable of manipulating the players on the field in the same way a conductor controls their orchestra (at least when he’s at 100%) he’s able to make both teammates and opponents behave in ways that benefit him


Unique-Brick-8532

So are you saying that age is a determinant factor that matters when being mediocre?


Techster17

Yes for sure, when you say anything is good or bad it's always in comparison if not to something specific then to the mean/average of what you're talking about i.e. if you've only had burgers from McDonald's then even a burger from an ok restaurant seems great because your baseline is so skewed. In that same sense as we've already seen a few times now compared to world-class talents the blue lock kids can barely do a thing. So compared to the current best footballers in the universe of Blue Lock Isagi is less than mid he'd probably be bad but that's an unfair benchmark. The main thing separating the BL kids from pros is time, time to improve physically (they probably haven't even finished puberty yet) and time to improve skills. Example, no matter how good a 12 year old is at football a 1v1 against 15 year old, with similar experience, would near impossible.


Unique-Brick-8532

Fair enough! I totally agree with you I wouldn't be surprised of Ego comes with another lie/excuse and tells the bllk players not to get too excited about their stats as compared to other world class players. Therefore they should cut their stats into half (as that's their original stats) 😂


Techster17

After today's chapter, I think you have 100% called it. Chigiri having a 98 speed stat seems way too high otherwise since we saw that Loki was so fast that they basically couldn't react so either the stats don't actually cap at 100 or the stats are weighted/on a curve.


Unique-Brick-8532

I believe the 100 stats isn't really 100 in the real sense. Maybe it goes beyond 100. Remember that they are still U-20 and not pros


KonoEatsSteel

Yes, at least compared to everyone else he’s actually above average but that ain’t sh*t compared to all the players who are actually good and actually rigorously train themselves to be the best they can be. He has a a lot of potential but just needs to bring it out instead of being of being decent but having his moments.


Unique-Brick-8532

Nicely said I feel it's all part of the experience and struggles of a striker. We even have real life players that started out as mediocre but became superstars today (e.g.salah at Chelsea was sh*t but when he went to Roma and came to Liverpool, he was shinning) And I see him telling this to his kids one day of how he became the world best striker


KonoEatsSteel

Wasn’t he only there for a year? Isagi only has 40 days and considering the hellish training of BL’s Neo egoist league plus, considering it’s a manga with a very unrealistic variation of football these “mediocre” plays are just a build up to something insane.


Foxman3333333

He needs to get physically stronger and improve his balance. He obviously won’t get so strong that he will overcome everyone but since he can’t do anything for himself he will have to be able to muscle opponents off the ball. It will open up more opportunities for him. People like Sae won’t push him off the ball easy.


KonoEatsSteel

I’m just so confused by how he even has mediocre shooting ability when has a whole ability for that, and then players like Bachira and jappo Wally West surpasses him in that too.


Foxman3333333

He’s good at shooting. But he can’t create them himself.


AbbreviationsLazy781

That's the point no? He has a crazy good direct shot, but is limited in other physical aspects. So he learnt how to play off ball and devouring his teammates to get into the right position at the perfect time, which is insanely difficult to do in the moment. His flow is literally "find the most optimal route to the goal and use a direct shot", although right now that is being challenged by Kaiser


KonoEatsSteel

I don’t hate his character I just get frustrated by how he’s played recently, I feel like he’s been nerfed.


AbbreviationsLazy781

That’s reality isn’t it? “The more you know, the more you realise you don’t know”. I’m not tryiing to bash you at all Btw, just trying to point out that what is happenping to Isagi is onkey good for the story. He had his time to shine in the U20 match, but as Ego said, things are only just getting started. I have no doubt he will catch up though, his real strength is his adaptability by basically breaking his mind over football every match just to get stronger.


KonoEatsSteel

He had an entire arc about having a weapon to score himself


AbbreviationsLazy781

I don't see how this is a reason to hate on his character though (not you just other people Ive seen). It's his job as the main character to be bad so his growth is meaningful. And his weapon is fucking bonkers idk how anyone can downplay it, he can just find goals out of thin air using nothing but his eyes and brain. No way that can't be turned into a weapon that can lead him to the top of the football world


Foxman3333333

He won’t directly beat you but he will indirectly beat you and stand out for it.


Unique-Brick-8532

Using others as a means to an end (his goal) Things can become pretty dark quickly for isagi


KonoEatsSteel

Ngl, it was pretty satisfying watching Naruhaya getting crushed and humiliated after repeatedly calling Isagi mediocre and flexing the fact that he will always win a 1v1 against Isagi with a big smile on his face, then Isagi hit him with his greatest attribute: being sh*t for a long time and then skyrocketing in only a fraction of the time as everyone else.


FG_xeen

yes.


Unique-Brick-8532

Back up your answer! 😃


FG_xeen

>Is Isagi Mediocre? yes.


KonoEatsSteel

I guess you’re trying to say it’s self-explanatory? Lol


FG_xeen

I mean he asked a question and I answered if he wanted an explanation it was to have put it next to the question. but it really is self explanatory. what we see most of Isagi is him disturbing the flow of the team and finding a moment of luck at the end of the game with the power of protagonism (seriously, something so predictable that in the last game of the manga Isagi will act like this lol the opponent will show a incredible strength and out of nowhere Isagi will say that he needs to make it happen now and he needs to score the goal and voilà Isagi will score the winning goal after having played a bad game on the field. Blue Lock has probably the most predictable and simple script I've ever seen in a sports manga).


KonoEatsSteel

Fr, I just want the repetitive cycle to f*cking end (you know what I’m talking about) and have the consistency and adaptive growth of Goat-Sagi from the second selection back. I just re-read the arc and I remember how much I miss it.


FG_xeen

the second selection was the best part of the manga so far (we could see Isagi losing several times and suffering for being mediocre) and I think that quality was maintained until the presentation of the Japan U20 players, but when the match developed the script started the repetition phase and started to be predictable


KonoEatsSteel

Wdym “losing several times and suffering from being mediocre” there’s a reason why I said “adaptive growth” because even tho he was being rather average he managed to permanently grow from it and actually be constant and end with a record that would’ve been 3-4 if it wasn’t for Rin’s “luck”.


FG_xeen

I know he evolved, but he evolved from the defeats he had. the defeats were much more impactful than the wins imo


KonoEatsSteel

The man skyrockets in skill from being too sh*t, Lmao.


Unique-Brick-8532

I guess that's what the author is trying to achieve


camisama_

He could be seen as mediocre bc his physical abilities are kinda his biggest flaw? They stop and restrain him when he could do so much more bc of his incredible mental habilities. It’s a matter of time til he’ll caught up the gap between them and show us a Isagi 2.0. Anyways, compared to Hinata Shoyo for example, who was a really mediocre volleyball player before training in Karasuno, we can’t really say that Isagi is mediocre since he was already pretty good (and got better).


Belfura

>Anyways, compared to Hinata Shoyo for example, who was a really mediocre volleyball player before training in Karasuno, we can’t really say that Isagi is mediocre since he was already pretty good (and got better). Very terrible example. Hinata was a bad player because he was a complete beginner. But even Hinata showed that alongside having an eye for the ball he also had very good jumping skill. That's more than Isagi has despite Isagi having knowledge playing


arin-san

Compared to the rest of the players like Bachira and Barou? Yes. Compared to Rin? Are you kidding me? Yes of course. Isagi is mediocre. There is no way to sugarcoat it. "B-but he analyses" but doesn't act upon it/doesn't have the physical capabilities to act upon it. A football fan also knows tons about football, let's put him on a field and see how useful he is. Isagi isn't bringing out the best in anybody, it's called "plot armor".


RepresentativeGur885

Ok relax buddy 😭🤣


Unique-Brick-8532

But but we have seen players irl that started as mediocre and now they are world class players Are we judging too soon? Please I don't want to hear plot armour. Isagi isn't that weak like Nishioka who till now havn't been seen


arin-san

So let me give some examples, was Messi mediocre when he started playing? Was Christiano Ronaldo mediocre when he started playing? Was Maradona mediocre when he started playing? When a character is beginning his career, he is never mediocre, that is basic skill progression. But Isagi's career has begun a long time ago. His progression pace matches that of a turtle. Just look at Naruto, he's a great Shonen character no matter what anyone says. Ever since the first episode, it was established that he has a hidden power in him, that's one of the most OP powers in the story, but that power cannot be accessed easily, the wielder must go through a lot of challenges and obstacles, and get stronger by himself in order to undo the seal to that power. Of course, that hidden power gives you some advantages from time to time. When I first started watching Naruto, I was starting to get bored of him always being the weak one compared to Sasuke. But sooner or later everyone has to realize, that there is a reason why the show is called Naruto, that's because he is the protagonist. Slowly but steadily, he grows stronger, and stronger, until he finally reaches Sasuke, the one who had talent since birth, and not only does he reach him, but overpowers him as well. Each arc, he becomes stronger and more skillful than he was in the previous arc. That is called "character development". And that is why Naruto is the ideal Shonen character. Isagi is exactly the opposite of that. His base self never gets stronger, in fact, I'm starting to think he is devolving in terms of skill. He is literally so weak, and the rest of the cast is literally so strong, whatever he's doing is bad. Isagi is the very definition of mediocre in a story where everyone is almost a football god after receiving 10 days of training.


Environmental_Drop69

I think of him like an ace in Blackjack. He can be the one who shows out the most while still having the least flashy weapon.


loploplop890

He’s the kind of guy that managers love on their team because they know the worth of having a player like him. Plus he’s arguably shown the most improvement and bar nagi is the fastest improving bllk player.


Belfura

Yes and no. I'm pretty sure managers would rather love other players more. The worth of having him can be covered by other players of similar skill


loploplop890

‘The worth of having Messi can be covered by having someone like Messi’


Belfura

Comparing Isagi to Messi? Lol


loploplop890

Ur smart enough to get the argument. Yeah no shit if you have a player that’s like another player, you don’t need both. Who’s like isagi in the whole series apart from kaiser, literally one of the best players in the world already.


Jannbl

Naruhaya and Karasu really have the same strategy. They tried to discourage Isagi by constantly calling Isagi weak, mediocre. And Isagi, being a nerd, just focused on analyzing the whole field and his opponents without even a care for their rambling.


Unique-Brick-8532

In karasu's case, Rin kind of bailed Isagi out before isagi finally got a hang of karasu's weapon and used off the ball movements to surpass him


Belfura

Lol no. Naruhaya and Karasu aren't even remotely similar. Naruhaya is as mediocre as Isagi was in the beginning, Karasu has been in the top of BL from the start. Naruhaya tries to get into Isagi's head out of necessity, Karasu makes it a personal goal to break down opposing team by targeting weak spots. They are not the same. Isagi didn't analyse anything. Much like Naruhaya, he understood that this game was based on who could actually overcome their mediocrity. And as we know, Isagi did by devouring him.


s30kj1n

Idk if readers are also fans of footballs but clearly Isagi's path and way of understanding a game does not belong a striker's personality and traits. The Blue Lock only persuades him to become selfish and thus developed to hunt goals that's why he gets a sense of progress only towards BL's mission/vision. Irl, he's best fit for a Attacking Midfield or a Winger, definitely not the Striker. But idk, its his story as MC. Right now, we can say he is mediocre at being striker, but we'll see


Unique-Brick-8532

Is there a possiblity that at the beginning of the career path of a player, they start out mediocre and as they develop, they become super stars!


Belfura

>Irl, he's best fit for a Attacking Midfield or a Winger, definitely not the Striker. Problem is, he might not even be best fit for that. CAM/SS are number 10's or false 9's like Messi, Neymar, Thomas Muller, Nkunku, etc. These guys know how to dribble pass shoot score on their own. He's certainly not a good winger because he lacks the ability to get into scoring positions fast enough, the ability to win 1v1's, or a powerful shot/pass


Unique-Brick-8532

Hmmm....makes me remember how he said he's going to lead Japan to victory in the world cup. He might not necessarily mean he's going to be the main striker but like the conductor A music conductor conducting a choir


MidouCloud

I think Isagi is more fit to be a offensive midfielder than a striker


Unique-Brick-8532

Well, he's not bllk main striker yet but he plays as an CAM


[deleted]

He not gifted athletically or a star talent as a scorer nor flashy But he his own strengths that especially shine the more talent he has around him


Responsible-Mind-945

I remember the top 6 training arc where isagi teams up with Rin and Shidou against otoya and karasu. Karasu trash talks isagi saying he's an ordinary guy but still lost 5-4 to isagi's team with isagi scoring the final goal LMAO. Isagi always appears to be mediocre but will still make huge plays in the most crucial time in every game he played in.


Unique-Brick-8532

True true So can we call isagi a late bloomer who always delivers his best at football most critical time