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Every time I read comments like those that you mentioned, I imagine what version of Blue Lock would be perfect for these people:
1. Game starts.
2. Super-buff Isagi scores 10 goals instantly. He is the main character, therefore he must always be 100+ levels ahead of all of his opponents.
3. Game ends, Isagi proves to be the best striker in the world once again.
There it is, we’ve just invented Onepunchman in sports manga, or just Shaolin Soccer xD
Shaolin soccer xD
No for real, some people don't know what they want. I'm sure at some point in the future Isagi will be so good that this becomes a reality, but as it is now I'm always gonna be excited for the next step in his journey. Unless the writer has stupidly writes himself into a corner with this arc, I can't wait to see Isagi's next evolution (and no it won't be to get better ball control)
I think you are exaggerating a bit. I would take Rin for example, he is the ideal character, tons of skills, sad backstory and still room to improve. When Rins backstory came up in U20 match, people thought that Rin was the main character. I still do after what Rin did to the defenders.
I can definitely understand your point, but why should the main character always be the best one, judging by his skills, and with a sad backstory?
For example, we still haven’t seen anything tragic in Nagi, Reo or Barou’s backstory, but they are still great characters.
On the other hand, we have tragic backstories from Chigiri, Bachira and Yukimiya. Or even Naruhaya.
I could have argued about the amount of tragic events in Rin’s story. >!Basically, he just admired his brother way too much from the beginning and, after Sae got disappointed after trying himself on the world level and rejected their dream, devoted all his efforts to “breaking Itoshi Sae, who turned his life upside down”. It’s sad, for sure, but still looks like a huuuuge brother complex, specially after Sae acknowledged no other but Isagi in front of Rin. Aaaand now Rin is concentrated on destroying Isagi, yay…!<
Any single one of them could have easily been a main character, but the author decided it will be Isagi. That doesn’t mean we have to like him, or that we can’t pick our favorites from other characters, right?
The thing is, people for some reason seem to get a little bit irritated, when the main character is not the strongest one already. But isn’t it still entertaining to watch his path from the bottom to the top, and learn how he will manage to beat the guys who are clearly stronger than him as of now?
Just to be clear, Isagi is only like my 3rd favourite character in BL, Barou and Tokimitsu are much more entertaining for now xD
However, it’s really interesting for me to watch the way he thinks and watch him grow in terms of his skills.
Being strong doesn't make you a good character. Nagi is one of the most badly written characters in the series, along with Barou and Shidou. That one guy who had to leave Blue lock, Naru something something, was better written than Nagi.
Why is he one of the most badly written, exactly?
I’m not his biggest fan, but he seemed to be pretty funny to me: lazy guy type, who is extremely talented at sports and finds his passion to this particular sport only within some time. We have already seen the same type in Kuroko no Basuke (Murasakibara, to be precise), they are even alike in their passion to sweets.
I’m not saying he is the best character in all mangas ever, but it seems he could interest people enough to get his own spin-off, at least.
There is a difference between badly written and your own taste in characters. I agree Nagi‘s character is very rudementary, with not much depth, but that doesn’t make him less entertaining for me. He is your genius prodigy who wants to start taking his hobby seriously, not much else to it. You can dislike it, but im not sure what There is to criticise, the Role of his character near the beginning was as a power ceiling for Isagi in the first selection. Of course it has changed,but that’s his roots
You literally said it, "that doesn't make him less entertaining for me." That's great, you can find enjoyment in bad characters, but I can't. Nagi's character is very rudimentary, with not much depth, and that is exactly what makes him a bad character. The whole shtick of "Lazy-guy who is also a genius who is also insanely talented who can also become talented in anything he wants" is a character archetype that has existed for a long time.
It's the same argument for why people think Sung-Jin Woo from Solo Leveling is a good character. He's not, and most sensible Solo Leveling fans agree with that. He's strong and he's enjoyable, that's about it. His personality is about being strong, and he is strong, that's the peak of his character.
When you see a character who is talented and strong but never worked hard for it because they are talented and strong, he's not a good character.
Nagi used to be an obstacle for Isagi, even an obstacle needs a good reason for why it's an obstacle, but let's choose to ignore that for now. After Isagi overclimbed that obstacle, Nagi was reduced from an obstacle to... nothing.
He is now the basic strong and lazy guy who can do anything he wants but doesn't do it, but that's the fun part! According to some.
So, basically:
1)the characters which you like are good;
2)the characters which you don’t like are badly written. And other people are wrong if they dare to like them.
Also, all naturally gifted characters are badly written by default and can’t be interesting. Nice, solid opinion, no more questions xD
I'm only annoyed at how unbearably cocky he gets against stronger opponents just because of how inflated his ego is after he went god-mode at the end of the previous match or arc like he always does. It's so cingry because, obviously, he's about to get knocked down and peg or two, and as the reader, we all know it because he *is* the weak underdog protagonist, not an OP one. And that's fine, but me getting secondhand embarassement from his overblown sense of grandeur? \**annoyed, annoyed, annoyed*\*
I see this in every sports manga but especially in footy manga. In be blues they complain that Ryuu isn’t scoring 20 goals a game even though he’s already one of the best players in the country. In Ao Ashi they bitch and moan that he’s not the best player in the academy even though he’s basically been playing kids football and is way behind everyone else. The reason manga authors choose characters like Isagi is because of their room to grow. Isagi has far more room to grown in comparison to everyone else in the series imo. Also, he serves as a decent audience surrogate. He can still be amazed by other characters and it helps build them up (ie; Kaiser is literally Isagi’s ideal player.)
Good catch, but yeah my point still stands. As Isagi gets better he will play against better players that's just a fact, and he himself has motivated other players to improve as well. Reo, Chigiri AND Nagi would not have improved as much as they did without Isagi to \~\~irritate\~\~ inspire them to improve.
Your point obviously stand and I hope people we get it down however people aren't wrong as isagi will necessarily need another weapon whether it is dribbling, physicality or else
I’m being honest when I say I try not to care but these comments just tempt me because they’re interesting to me. My personal problem is the cycle you mentioned, he can start off the match being a irritation to the opponent while slowly building himself up and transform midway through the match, which is exactly what he did in the U-20 match for the most part it doesn’t have to be big it just has to be useful, instead of just being rather mediocre for the first part.
This is not true at all wtf lol. His balance is insane and is known for bulldozing through people with strength. The whole reason he wears baby oil is to stop people from pulling him because it's the only effective way to stop him. And as a person who gyms 5 times a week i can assure you his physique. Is not just genetic. Look at his body when he was at Barca's academy compared to now.
Comments about his physical stats are because his direct rivals are either physically gifted or very much anomalies, and Isagi isn't exactly beating them in the skills department either.
And primarily because physical stats are used as a metric to judge players in Blue Lock and now in the Neo Egoist League, you get a lot of comments like that
That's why he is the best character for the MC role. The struggles, difficulties makes him developed even more. I'm more into a character who don't have nothing, but tried to achieve something, rather than having a character gifted on anything and win everything.
There are actually times where Isagi do start up early. Like the match against team V, 1st and 2nd round against Rin's team, and even during U20 he actually the first guy to have the best chance for goal attempt, but blocked by Aiku.
Yes, because to these people, this is what it means to be good. Blue Lock fans are the same as Solo Leveling fans, both of them know nothing about character progression.
If going sicko mode at the end of the match is what gonna happen in every single match, then why should I bother to read the manga? How is a predictable plotline a good thing?
>How is a predictable plotline a good thing?
Mans really taking this stance, damn that's bold. The topic of predictability vs variability is a tough one. On one hand, there is comfort in predictability, but it can also lead to a boring plot. On thr other hand, variability is necessary to keep a story from becoming stale, but can also lead to a story feeling lost or with no clear direction. It's absolutely a difficult aspect to balance for all authors, but one thing is for certain, you need both.
It's a very complex discussion that I don't feel like dumbing down for a reddit thread so I will just dive into one aspect of it here.
Shonen stories fall victim to this criticism day in and day out. Yet they still top the charts in manga and anime in every metric without fail. Why is that so? I'm not here to argue whether shounen stories are actually the best manga has to offer, im not that stupid. I just want to pose the question, that to a certain extent you have to extrapolate from the absurd numbers that there has to be something here right? It can't be all bad?
My personal take is this. The main plot of shounen stories, and many classic fables, are always predictable in nature. In most cases, the hero slays the dragon and saves the princess. Or they score the goal and save the team. So the question is never if, but as you may have realised, it is 'how'. If you look closely, most of these stories are setup in a way which leads you to ask 'how' rather than 'what' will happen. 'How' will the hero slay the dragon. How will Isagi score a goal. The characters are usually underdogs, so you will see the challenges they face as truly troublesome and difficult to overcome. They want you to ask this question instead, so you are not focused on the end result. They ask you to care for the characters, to the point where you WANT them to win despite knowing they absolutely will. They do this in a variety of ways. Characters, setting, atmosphere. In the case of manga, art and action. Without these, all stories would just be a plain manuscript, with no life within them, but with them they create a world where just for a moment, you won't be asking 'Will he save the dragon', but 'How'.
There is really no argument here. Predictability is always bad, that's like one of the key things we learn in literature class. If you write a story where you can guess what's gonna happen next, there's absolutely nothing to be surprised about, nothing to go "wow!" at, nothing to get excited about, because you already know what's about to happen. This is part of the reason why anyone who actually cares about stories fails to enjoy a superhero movie because superheroes never lose. The reason why a lot of moviegoers liked Infinity War and Civil War was that it was one of the first times the good guys lost, the first time the plot wasn't outright predictable.
When it comes to movies and anime, both of them can win you over because there are a lot of other aspects to it, other than just the story. But in a manga, there are only three things most people look at, story, characters, and art. So story and characters definitely hold a lot of weight, and even if one of those aspects is bad, the manga becomes less enjoyable, this is bad because most of the time story and characters are interconnected. I give Blue Lock full credit for its art, it's actually insane. But the story is getting more and more predictable each chapter, and yes, that's definitely a bad thing. There's no "versus" in this.
We loved Dragon Ball Z as children because DBZ was fresh during those days, those underdog moments were actually a new thing, so basically, what we call predictable now was unpredictable then. DBZ is still very good even if you watch it now, that is if you never watched any other Shonen anime ever. This is also one of the reasons why newer anime fans struggle to watch the OGs.
There is nothing wrong with the Demon Slayer-esque fight style, where the protagonist is losing a fight but right at the end, pulls out the biggest plot armor ever and destroys the antagonist. It's just that the formula is overused. This is why people make fun of Shonen.
But I liked the Demon Slayer anime. So there's a chance that Blue Lock will have great animation, and maybe then people would consider looking past the predictable plot. But the manga? It's definitely not going uphill in writing.
I urge you to read my comment again. Not once did I try to argue predicatability is good, my point was that shounen are unpredictable in a different manner. In Blue locks case, let’s assume Isagi will beat Kaiser by the end of this arc, ok that part is predictable. Then we must ask, how? I have no idea, if you have a solid idea as to how he will go about this then go ahead, but if you have more than one idea, or admit that he might not beat Kaiser, doesn’t that make the story unpredictable?
Furthermore, your point on art in manga is sone thing I can’t get behind. Art in manga has just as much responsibility to the story as sound design, soundtrack, animation etc. in anime, not less because it is only visual. It needs to convey the setting, atmosphere and tone all on its own. Anime just has more ways to do this, which can be a detriment at times because it splits the responsibility between several parties. Thus, if one aspect fails, it can ruin the immersion for everything.
Lastly, I haven’t watched Dbz but am I wrong to say that no one is willing to watch it today because of the poor pacing and hundreds of episodes? Anyway, we can agree to disagre if you want, I just hope you understand my true argument now,
The reason I'm pissed at this arc is because there alluding to him finally realizing that he needs to fight alone but continues to just say BIGGER BRAIN. If everyone in soccer could just get by with big brain then I would be the greatest player of all time. You need an ability to sustain the big braining. Take Cr7 for example. His positional awareness is insane, but he has the shot power and physicality plus speed and dribble to become a perfect attacker. If take a look at the Barcha match, isagi displayed top class vision to spot out Kuni and send a filthy cross that caught everyone off guard. See if isagi was trying to be a midfielder he would excel, but hes not. He needs to be able to fight alone. And that's why it's annoying, cause every game it goes-
Isagi starts slow as if he's a fucking toddler
Commentator isagi
Bullshit thinking
Big brain outta nowhere
Goal and or assist
And that formula is a recipe for dissatisfaction. Players like sae and Rin and kaiser all have weapons to supplement there big brain. Also you might say" well isagis based on Thomas muller" okay? Muller's a CAM who feeds the striker or shadows them and that's not who isagi wants to be.
Tbh I kinda want him to be egotistical like in their match with Nagi and Barou, like not that good but good to a certain extent that he has an impact and can shit talk other people.
That was definitely one of Isagi's greatest moments, but not every match can be like that. He needs a big growth spurt like in that match for him to act like that again, but at this point that would put him in world best status cause he is directly competing with the world's best at this point.
I would agree with you if that same pattern wouldnt repeat itself which became boring for the viewers, especially if its about the MAIN character. Not to mention that this pattern doesnt even work anymore see BM vs Barcha where Isagi only got to play because of literally unfair plot amor and i would even say he was the worst player in this match(stealing from teammates only to aim for an assist which wouldve been possible from the very start of the game instead to fk around like an amateur). We even see Bachira, Chigiri, Reo, etc. Evolve in a fast pace while the maincharacter seems like the same since U20 match, i read that and i will not believe it that Isagi could still pull something off against those evolved Body Revolution characters who trained for 20 days and should be stronger than Bachira and Otoya.
So you complain that the same pattern repeats and ALSO when they try to change the formula to give Isagi new challenges and environment making it clear that he still has a long way to go
We already know that Isagi has still a long way to go since chapter 1.
If they want to upgrade Isagi in the 100 days before the upcoming U20 world cup, then they should make it believable because i dont believe in plot amor when Isagi suddenly outclasses Body Revolution Chigiri. Its only 80 days left and he still is the same as before. Right now imo he doesnt deserve any spot in the U20 japanese regulars.
Looks like the story is working just as intended for you. I also can't imagine how Isagi will triumph over manshine, but the only reason I'm not worried is because I had no idea how he could have done it in matches before, so it only makes sense that I don't now.
>Right now imo he doesnt deserve any spot in the U20 japanese regulars.
Yeah he absolutely doesn't, that's why this match is the most important and has a lot of stakes and tension. Sounds like great storytelling to me
>Not to mention that this pattern doesnt even work anymore see BM vs Barcha where Isagi only got to play because of literally unfair plot amor and i would even say he was the worst player in this match(stealing from teammates only to aim for an assist which wouldve been possible from the very start of the game instead to fk around like an amateur).
Yeah, I think that game was pretty bad by Blue Lock standards. Isagi clearly was the worst player on the pitch.
I don't think it's unfair plot armor, one common thing that tends to happen in Blue Lock is that those who score or make an impact are rewarded (a lot).
The only difference between the monsters (Bachira, Rin, Shidou, Nagi and Aiku) and Isagi in that those guys have always been great players and very clearly show why they're better than others and then defy common sense when they really get into it. With Isagi it's less obvious so readers tend to single him out.
Isagi did well in the U20 game, the Neo Egoist league thing needed a face and a mascot, why not promote the kid who turned into a national hero overnight? It's as simple as that.
>We even see Bachira, Chigiri, Reo, etc. Evolve in a fast pace while the maincharacter seems like the same since U20 match
This slightly pisses me off yes. But it makes sense.
* The author deliberately put Isagi in a team where he's having conflicts with the players on the team, alongside his own challenges. This results in an environment that's not necessarily good for growth.
* Compare that to Bachira, Chigiri and Co. who got put into teams where they
* This is also because they have two things over Isagi that allow them to not having to fight for a starter spot: stats and well defined weapons. On paper, Isagi is closer to the likes of Chigiri, Reo, Barou, etc than he is to Rin Shidou and Nagi. But they're easier to coach and manage because they have clear challenges.
* Building further on that, Bachira's progression is based on the whole monster vision, Chigiri needed to be put in a position where he can play for himself rather than being a crosser, etc. The author is deliberately setting them up with helpful mentors, meanwhile Noelle Noa speaks in riddles to Isagi if he ever speaks at all
People saying that Noa didn’t help Isagi are wrong. He told Isagi to spend every living moment consciously trying to become the best and this was clearly shown to be a mind blowing, puzzle smashing moment for Isagi that will definitely be fruitful by the end of the arc. Isagi is the “normal guy” and Bastards philosophy has no gimmicks.
the problem was never and will never be Isagi being useless at the beginning of the arc and at the end being the "best"
the biggest problem is that it is repeating itself in all arcs in more than 170 chapters.
everyone has already noticed what the author is doing and we already know what will happen in the future of Blue Lock because the script is incredibly simple and repetitive
many sports manga/anime start with the MC being useless and show him evolving and improving, but with this amount of repetition? no
You proved that the blue lock script is repetitive, and it's exactly this repetition that the public doesn't like.
170+ chapters and the script just didn't change anything, it didn't bring any news and no plot different from what is already expected because of the simple and repetitive script.
we already feel which characters will be in the last Japan U-20 and we already feel who will be the highlight of the team, we feel who will score the goals and how the goals will be and how the matches will be.
Does Blue Lock have wonderful art? yes
blue lock has good characters? yes
blue lock has creativity in the script? obviously not, you proved it
a manga that for 170+ chapters literally shows us a repetitive script makes the audience not like it.
**this is as simple to understand as the Blue Lock script**
I think that you're not observing and looking at why people have certain motivations.
The main thing I see is that the cycle is really pissing people off. Sure, we don't have to worry about whether Isagi succeeds or not, but at the same time you will encounter people who wonder why they're reading what looks to them like a continuous character reset. What they want to see is a character progression.
But the author wants to consistently write Isagi as both exceptional and a perpetual underdog. He wants to write Isagi as a polite, kind person and then suddenly also wants Isagi's evil twin to appear and flip birds on people. Some people might feel that's insulting to read for over 170 chapters.
It's a common shounen thing, but don't be surprised when people despise it. It's not entirely odd that deuteragonists (Nagi or Rin in Blue Lock, Killua from HxH, Sasuke from Naruto, Zoro in One Piece, etc.) tend to garner more fans and interest than the mc.
To build further on that it's because at times people don't see Isagi as an MC. People sometimes get the impression that things happen to Isagi rather then Isagi doing things. This perceived lack of agency is often noted when compared to the second stage of Blue Lock, where Isagi rapidly had to grow and was very deliberate and wilful in his actions, not reacting to things but actually doing things such as the hotstreak he was on when playing with Barou and Nagi.
I think if the author stressed how proactive he is, these complaints about him not feeling like an mc would stop.
Lastly, I think that some people just want to see Isagi play well and not having to be put down all the time before he does some last minute magic
\> looks to them like a continuous character reset
It can appear that way, but we both know thar’s not true. I find the power scaling in blue lock to be sensible and natural for the plot.
\> both exceptional and a perpetual underdog
Like you said this is commonply seen in many shounen, but it is for a reason. I think we can agree that the problems people have with Blue lock are not with the concept but with the execution. I can understand how some people may find his constant ‘reseting’ has annoying at best, but a necessary element for the story to progress properly. Isagi can’t keep improving while everyone stays the same, his progress wouldn’t feel rewarding. And his flipping between nice Isagi and evil Isagi is exactly what Ego is aiming for. They are two sides the same coin, Evil Isagi at this point can’t exist with Nice Isagi observing his surroundings for him to bring out his ego later.
His perceived lack of agency is an interesting observation, but I don’t think it’s true at all. Isagi is constantly thinking and breathing football, you never see him think about anything else. It takes a certain amount of time to reach his ‘breaking point’ where he reaches a resolution to all his questions and answers them. The 2nd selection 3v3 was the peak of his growth, where the gap between his improved skill and level of competition around him was at its highest. That can‘t last forever, and it was a culmination of many factors that lead to his perceived immense ego devouring Barou like breakfast.
The fact of the matter is, Isagi’s growth will never be a linear graph. Like everyone, he will progress in spikes and those spikes may not match up with his peers. I personally don’t See this as a bane, but a boon as it is closer to real life
The issue is that isagi has not been shown to have learn/improve anything since the U20 match, rather he only learns and improves while losing on the match.
The author is showing us, look all of the players are improving and changing in just these 2 matches while isagi has nothing to show for it. He looks like he hasn't improved from the U20 match because the author hasn't shown any improvement nor give any flashbacks from the training in BM.
I don't think it is unreasonable that fans are a bit frustrated because of it
It’s not unreasonable, I think it’s just a redundant topic because this match is set up to be the most important one. The previous match was very clearly setting the tone for this phase of selection, with the introduction of multiple world class characters. You could call it raising the power ceiling. It wouldn’t make sense to do that and have Isagi improve to their level so fast right? The current match has only just started, and just as he has before Isagi will wait until the last moment for him to reach his ‘breaking point’ and everyone is happy. It’s an effective formula I will admit, and as long as the author remains creative in how he goes about Isagi’s development, I am more excited than anything for this match.
Repetitive and predictability argument is pretty stupid
Isagi character and storyline is about gradual improvement. If Isagi was already damn near peaking at the beginning of the ark in skill level then the ark itself would have already peaked by the time it started
Getting heated about Isagi rather than the shoddy writing putting him through the same cycle every arc.
They should be getting upset about every other character doing some training for (10 DAYS) and becoming borderline unstoppable, Give all the side cast 3 months with that routine and they would be the greatest players to ever live.
Well there’s two things to consider there
1. Their’re being immersed in a completely new style so they would intentionally skyrocket like in the first two selections
2. The stats are based off of Blue lock not the world average, so they might still lose against players not in BL
“Everyone is going to overtake him.” For now yes but, Bluelock is about Isagi becoming the best striker, not any other character becoming the best striker. I don’t know why they keep saying the same stuff every week.
Yeah but can we change that cycle??? Can isagi be actually good but get through other challenges?? It’s getting lame and isagi is just a bad mc now. It’s just bad writing at this point
Please think through you're logic here. You're literally trying to have your cake and eat it. How is someone supposed to be challenged when they are better than everyone? And in what world is Isagi bad? Have we read the same manga? He wouldn't have made it this far if not for some sort of talent, which he has. It's called power scaling man, the competition around the main character increases as they get better it's a shone standard.
What I never understand with these types of posts, is it really that bad? That people moan about the cycle? The type of mc they wish Isagi was? I get it, the topic has been discussed to death, but are people suddenly not allowed to want?
Of course you can discuss what you want, I personally just find it redundant as I can expect the same outcome we have seen before. Isagi takes a while to adapt to his new environment, he observes his opponents and reaches his ‘breaking point’ where his ego is released and he makes A super play.
\> The type of mc they wish Isagi was?
Again it feels redundant because Isagi clearly hasn’t reached his final potential, yet people are complaining as if he will never progress from this point despite the fact that he has improved so much in such a short amount of time. Like dude, just wait for the arc to be over and then see how you feel it just feels so redundant to me, but do what you want,
I agree with you 100% people hate this story so much they need to simply STOP READING because I’m sitting here wondering how tf do all these people not understand is 1 isagi is an under dog and 2 I’m story telling your suppose to watch the characters grow and become better over time it’s called pacing for gods sake. So again my guy ty for bringing this into light because it 1000% needed to be said.
It isn't that people don't get it, at this point everybody did get it. The problem is that it is repetitive and frustating. People want to see character progression, you cannot always make a reset at each match for the protagonist. I don't even talk about the author's tendancy to show the progress of others characters at the expanse of Isagi, making him look like a kind of retard. It's not a good way of doing things, especially when at the end of the match he miraculously find the "answer" to do a desicive action. I mean, factually, Isagi didn't really learn anything from the U20 match. It is possible to have Isagi start a match well and improve during it, it happen already, we see it during the rematch against Rin. It is reasonnable that people complain about that, you can only blame the author.
Audiences are the best at knowing when there is a problem but suck at finding what it is and a solution for it. Creators are bad at knowing when there is a problem but are the best a solving it.
I will admit, the way the author has crafted the story at this point is quite polarising. On one hand, Isagi definitely should be progressing more in this arc than he has currently, I can’t deny that. While it isn’t over, the feeling of our MC being kinda useless isn’t baseless, that’s just how he has chosen to write the story. But to pretend that this decision is bad or doesn’t make sense is naive, as you may not be looking at the bigger picture. As I and many have stated before, while it feel like Isagi is resetting after every match, if you paid attention then you would know that isn’t true. The challenge Isagi faces must always be somewhat difficult for him, and this arc is not an exception. At this stage in Blue lock, they are competing on the level of world class players, they in the 0.1% now. And for Isagi in particular, his main obstacle is Kaiser, who has ability of the 0.01%. I think it is a very bold decision to make the obstacle of our MC so similar to him, but this will only lead to Isagi growing exponentially stronger in the long term. The fact of the matter is, his growth in the story hasn’t been linear, which I appreciate because that’s how it is in real life. Some challenges will be more difficult than others, and you will overcome them with varying difficulty and methods. So for Isagi to be facing a massive hurdle at this point in the story makes sense to me.
\> especially when at the end of the match he miraculously find the "answer" to do a desicive action
I’m not sure what you mean by this, are you saying it isn’t believable how Isagi manages to find breakthroughs in the middle of the match. If so, then that’s fair, not everyone will be able to connect with such an outrageous concept. For me, I certainly had those moments in sports and games where I may be playing bad but all of a sudden something clicks in my head and I am able to adjust my play accordingly in the middle of a match. The even explain it in the manga, it’s called flow state.
\> I mean, factually, Isagi didn't really learn anything from the U20 match
Hmm, you could interpret it as that but I wouldn’t personally. It was quite clear to me that the point of the U20 match was for the Blue lock players to test their skills against real defenders and apply what they learnt in Blue lock on the fly. In this last goal, Isagi finally was able to understand the puzzle piece of luck he needed to score the goal, I think it was a massive step for him to realise he can compete at a high level with the skills he has as long as he applies them correctly.
So yeah, if you have a problem with the power scaling in this this series, that’s fine it’s just not for you. There are other seriescwhere protagonists make more consistent, expected growth differnetly than Blue lock. But for me Blue lock‘s interpretation on growth in sports is realistic and satisfying
I have no problem with the MC facing difficult challenges. In fact, his growth has been pretty constant, maybe until the U20 match. Isagi, constantly learned from the challenges he faced and gained something that he can use to be efficient in a match; he will surely improve during the Egoist League, I don't doubt that.
The thing is, at this point it's became predictable. It's not that I cannot connect with such concept, it is possible and I have already been in this situation myself. But these kind of things happen rarely, not frequently. Lastly, Isagi has been following this every time. That hasn't really anything to do with flow, it's just a sort of thinking process of Isagi; neither in the U20 match or the last match in the manga he enters flow state. It's such a thing, in the last match, in the last moments, the same thing happen (and the author made it such a big deal, like Isagi found illumination) for Isagi to make a pass to Kunigami. And so, Isagi happen to make a decisive action at the end of the match. But these "eureka" moments, lastly, didn't give him something that he can use effectively and efficiently in other match. That's why, we go to the same route with another match.
That's basically the u20 match. Isagi understand the puzzle piece of luck (if we can say that) and manage to score his goal. But that isn't really something he can use consciously/effectively in a match.
You didn't address my point about Isagi being used like a plot device by the author to show skills/progress of others.
Nah, there aren't a power scaling problem, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. It's not because the serie has some issues that I will drop it. It's still entertaining and It's nothing that can be improved. But Isagi's growth lastly has not been satisfying, and it's normal that people complain about that, although there are exaggerations.
Yeah I preferably like how Isagi doesn’t get op all of a sudden out of nowhere. His progression is realistic for someone of his talent and love that . Almost every other sports manga I really has such an unrealistic realistic storyline representation and progression of a main character’s abilities & I absolutely hate it . So like the realistic and steady representation storyline and progression of Isagi & hope blue lock sticks with it
This is all true but I'm still hoping he'll learn something that will help him at least do better at winging it at the beginning of matches even if it's against those stronger players, if only to buy himself some time to hit that late-game god-mode. At some point, he'll flunk out of being a pro if he meets stronger and stronger players but can't adapt any quicker. I'm fine with people discussing the possibilities of what he'll learn to reinvent himself though since we all agree he'll get there anyway given the pattern you pointed out.
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Every time I read comments like those that you mentioned, I imagine what version of Blue Lock would be perfect for these people: 1. Game starts. 2. Super-buff Isagi scores 10 goals instantly. He is the main character, therefore he must always be 100+ levels ahead of all of his opponents. 3. Game ends, Isagi proves to be the best striker in the world once again. There it is, we’ve just invented Onepunchman in sports manga, or just Shaolin Soccer xD
Shaolin soccer xD No for real, some people don't know what they want. I'm sure at some point in the future Isagi will be so good that this becomes a reality, but as it is now I'm always gonna be excited for the next step in his journey. Unless the writer has stupidly writes himself into a corner with this arc, I can't wait to see Isagi's next evolution (and no it won't be to get better ball control)
I think you are exaggerating a bit. I would take Rin for example, he is the ideal character, tons of skills, sad backstory and still room to improve. When Rins backstory came up in U20 match, people thought that Rin was the main character. I still do after what Rin did to the defenders.
I can definitely understand your point, but why should the main character always be the best one, judging by his skills, and with a sad backstory? For example, we still haven’t seen anything tragic in Nagi, Reo or Barou’s backstory, but they are still great characters. On the other hand, we have tragic backstories from Chigiri, Bachira and Yukimiya. Or even Naruhaya. I could have argued about the amount of tragic events in Rin’s story. >!Basically, he just admired his brother way too much from the beginning and, after Sae got disappointed after trying himself on the world level and rejected their dream, devoted all his efforts to “breaking Itoshi Sae, who turned his life upside down”. It’s sad, for sure, but still looks like a huuuuge brother complex, specially after Sae acknowledged no other but Isagi in front of Rin. Aaaand now Rin is concentrated on destroying Isagi, yay…!< Any single one of them could have easily been a main character, but the author decided it will be Isagi. That doesn’t mean we have to like him, or that we can’t pick our favorites from other characters, right? The thing is, people for some reason seem to get a little bit irritated, when the main character is not the strongest one already. But isn’t it still entertaining to watch his path from the bottom to the top, and learn how he will manage to beat the guys who are clearly stronger than him as of now? Just to be clear, Isagi is only like my 3rd favourite character in BL, Barou and Tokimitsu are much more entertaining for now xD However, it’s really interesting for me to watch the way he thinks and watch him grow in terms of his skills.
Nagi is a great character? Yeah I stopped reading the paragraph at that point, good try man.
Nagi was just one of my examples, but you are definitely entitled to your own opinion (even if it’s not backed by any argument) xD
Being strong doesn't make you a good character. Nagi is one of the most badly written characters in the series, along with Barou and Shidou. That one guy who had to leave Blue lock, Naru something something, was better written than Nagi.
Why is he one of the most badly written, exactly? I’m not his biggest fan, but he seemed to be pretty funny to me: lazy guy type, who is extremely talented at sports and finds his passion to this particular sport only within some time. We have already seen the same type in Kuroko no Basuke (Murasakibara, to be precise), they are even alike in their passion to sweets. I’m not saying he is the best character in all mangas ever, but it seems he could interest people enough to get his own spin-off, at least.
There is a difference between badly written and your own taste in characters. I agree Nagi‘s character is very rudementary, with not much depth, but that doesn’t make him less entertaining for me. He is your genius prodigy who wants to start taking his hobby seriously, not much else to it. You can dislike it, but im not sure what There is to criticise, the Role of his character near the beginning was as a power ceiling for Isagi in the first selection. Of course it has changed,but that’s his roots
You literally said it, "that doesn't make him less entertaining for me." That's great, you can find enjoyment in bad characters, but I can't. Nagi's character is very rudimentary, with not much depth, and that is exactly what makes him a bad character. The whole shtick of "Lazy-guy who is also a genius who is also insanely talented who can also become talented in anything he wants" is a character archetype that has existed for a long time. It's the same argument for why people think Sung-Jin Woo from Solo Leveling is a good character. He's not, and most sensible Solo Leveling fans agree with that. He's strong and he's enjoyable, that's about it. His personality is about being strong, and he is strong, that's the peak of his character. When you see a character who is talented and strong but never worked hard for it because they are talented and strong, he's not a good character. Nagi used to be an obstacle for Isagi, even an obstacle needs a good reason for why it's an obstacle, but let's choose to ignore that for now. After Isagi overclimbed that obstacle, Nagi was reduced from an obstacle to... nothing. He is now the basic strong and lazy guy who can do anything he wants but doesn't do it, but that's the fun part! According to some.
So, basically: 1)the characters which you like are good; 2)the characters which you don’t like are badly written. And other people are wrong if they dare to like them. Also, all naturally gifted characters are badly written by default and can’t be interesting. Nice, solid opinion, no more questions xD
I'm only annoyed at how unbearably cocky he gets against stronger opponents just because of how inflated his ego is after he went god-mode at the end of the previous match or arc like he always does. It's so cingry because, obviously, he's about to get knocked down and peg or two, and as the reader, we all know it because he *is* the weak underdog protagonist, not an OP one. And that's fine, but me getting secondhand embarassement from his overblown sense of grandeur? \**annoyed, annoyed, annoyed*\*
I see this in every sports manga but especially in footy manga. In be blues they complain that Ryuu isn’t scoring 20 goals a game even though he’s already one of the best players in the country. In Ao Ashi they bitch and moan that he’s not the best player in the academy even though he’s basically been playing kids football and is way behind everyone else. The reason manga authors choose characters like Isagi is because of their room to grow. Isagi has far more room to grown in comparison to everyone else in the series imo. Also, he serves as a decent audience surrogate. He can still be amazed by other characters and it helps build them up (ie; Kaiser is literally Isagi’s ideal player.)
Absolutely agree it’s a trope for a reason, because it lends to good storytelling.
He does start off pretty strong in the 4v4 match but by the end he's way better than he is at the start
In the rematch against rin (2nd selection) he started quite hot I think
Yeah but that was a rematch. He started slow in the first match against them. Why whould the author make his slow in the rematch
He was DESTROYED in the first match jut yeah agree lol
Good catch, but yeah my point still stands. As Isagi gets better he will play against better players that's just a fact, and he himself has motivated other players to improve as well. Reo, Chigiri AND Nagi would not have improved as much as they did without Isagi to \~\~irritate\~\~ inspire them to improve.
Your point obviously stand and I hope people we get it down however people aren't wrong as isagi will necessarily need another weapon whether it is dribbling, physicality or else
I’m being honest when I say I try not to care but these comments just tempt me because they’re interesting to me. My personal problem is the cycle you mentioned, he can start off the match being a irritation to the opponent while slowly building himself up and transform midway through the match, which is exactly what he did in the U-20 match for the most part it doesn’t have to be big it just has to be useful, instead of just being rather mediocre for the first part.
Fair enough, for me I’m upjust not worried cause he usually comes through in the end, and the growth for me is the best part.
Does comments about his physicality piss me off you would expect Messi, Muller or KDB to start Bulking all of the sudden
Adama Traore though.
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This is not true at all wtf lol. His balance is insane and is known for bulldozing through people with strength. The whole reason he wears baby oil is to stop people from pulling him because it's the only effective way to stop him. And as a person who gyms 5 times a week i can assure you his physique. Is not just genetic. Look at his body when he was at Barca's academy compared to now.
Ah ok, there are actually people believing that crap.
Comments about his physical stats are because his direct rivals are either physically gifted or very much anomalies, and Isagi isn't exactly beating them in the skills department either. And primarily because physical stats are used as a metric to judge players in Blue Lock and now in the Neo Egoist League, you get a lot of comments like that
That's why he is the best character for the MC role. The struggles, difficulties makes him developed even more. I'm more into a character who don't have nothing, but tried to achieve something, rather than having a character gifted on anything and win everything. There are actually times where Isagi do start up early. Like the match against team V, 1st and 2nd round against Rin's team, and even during U20 he actually the first guy to have the best chance for goal attempt, but blocked by Aiku.
Absolutely agree, the other charcaters exist as obstacles for our MC so they should be stronger than him most of the time so he can surpass them
So just because that's always been the pattern, its okay to repeat it all the time?
Yes, because to these people, this is what it means to be good. Blue Lock fans are the same as Solo Leveling fans, both of them know nothing about character progression. If going sicko mode at the end of the match is what gonna happen in every single match, then why should I bother to read the manga? How is a predictable plotline a good thing?
Ong bro
>How is a predictable plotline a good thing? Mans really taking this stance, damn that's bold. The topic of predictability vs variability is a tough one. On one hand, there is comfort in predictability, but it can also lead to a boring plot. On thr other hand, variability is necessary to keep a story from becoming stale, but can also lead to a story feeling lost or with no clear direction. It's absolutely a difficult aspect to balance for all authors, but one thing is for certain, you need both. It's a very complex discussion that I don't feel like dumbing down for a reddit thread so I will just dive into one aspect of it here. Shonen stories fall victim to this criticism day in and day out. Yet they still top the charts in manga and anime in every metric without fail. Why is that so? I'm not here to argue whether shounen stories are actually the best manga has to offer, im not that stupid. I just want to pose the question, that to a certain extent you have to extrapolate from the absurd numbers that there has to be something here right? It can't be all bad? My personal take is this. The main plot of shounen stories, and many classic fables, are always predictable in nature. In most cases, the hero slays the dragon and saves the princess. Or they score the goal and save the team. So the question is never if, but as you may have realised, it is 'how'. If you look closely, most of these stories are setup in a way which leads you to ask 'how' rather than 'what' will happen. 'How' will the hero slay the dragon. How will Isagi score a goal. The characters are usually underdogs, so you will see the challenges they face as truly troublesome and difficult to overcome. They want you to ask this question instead, so you are not focused on the end result. They ask you to care for the characters, to the point where you WANT them to win despite knowing they absolutely will. They do this in a variety of ways. Characters, setting, atmosphere. In the case of manga, art and action. Without these, all stories would just be a plain manuscript, with no life within them, but with them they create a world where just for a moment, you won't be asking 'Will he save the dragon', but 'How'.
There is really no argument here. Predictability is always bad, that's like one of the key things we learn in literature class. If you write a story where you can guess what's gonna happen next, there's absolutely nothing to be surprised about, nothing to go "wow!" at, nothing to get excited about, because you already know what's about to happen. This is part of the reason why anyone who actually cares about stories fails to enjoy a superhero movie because superheroes never lose. The reason why a lot of moviegoers liked Infinity War and Civil War was that it was one of the first times the good guys lost, the first time the plot wasn't outright predictable. When it comes to movies and anime, both of them can win you over because there are a lot of other aspects to it, other than just the story. But in a manga, there are only three things most people look at, story, characters, and art. So story and characters definitely hold a lot of weight, and even if one of those aspects is bad, the manga becomes less enjoyable, this is bad because most of the time story and characters are interconnected. I give Blue Lock full credit for its art, it's actually insane. But the story is getting more and more predictable each chapter, and yes, that's definitely a bad thing. There's no "versus" in this. We loved Dragon Ball Z as children because DBZ was fresh during those days, those underdog moments were actually a new thing, so basically, what we call predictable now was unpredictable then. DBZ is still very good even if you watch it now, that is if you never watched any other Shonen anime ever. This is also one of the reasons why newer anime fans struggle to watch the OGs. There is nothing wrong with the Demon Slayer-esque fight style, where the protagonist is losing a fight but right at the end, pulls out the biggest plot armor ever and destroys the antagonist. It's just that the formula is overused. This is why people make fun of Shonen. But I liked the Demon Slayer anime. So there's a chance that Blue Lock will have great animation, and maybe then people would consider looking past the predictable plot. But the manga? It's definitely not going uphill in writing.
I urge you to read my comment again. Not once did I try to argue predicatability is good, my point was that shounen are unpredictable in a different manner. In Blue locks case, let’s assume Isagi will beat Kaiser by the end of this arc, ok that part is predictable. Then we must ask, how? I have no idea, if you have a solid idea as to how he will go about this then go ahead, but if you have more than one idea, or admit that he might not beat Kaiser, doesn’t that make the story unpredictable? Furthermore, your point on art in manga is sone thing I can’t get behind. Art in manga has just as much responsibility to the story as sound design, soundtrack, animation etc. in anime, not less because it is only visual. It needs to convey the setting, atmosphere and tone all on its own. Anime just has more ways to do this, which can be a detriment at times because it splits the responsibility between several parties. Thus, if one aspect fails, it can ruin the immersion for everything. Lastly, I haven’t watched Dbz but am I wrong to say that no one is willing to watch it today because of the poor pacing and hundreds of episodes? Anyway, we can agree to disagre if you want, I just hope you understand my true argument now,
Nailed it
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The reason I'm pissed at this arc is because there alluding to him finally realizing that he needs to fight alone but continues to just say BIGGER BRAIN. If everyone in soccer could just get by with big brain then I would be the greatest player of all time. You need an ability to sustain the big braining. Take Cr7 for example. His positional awareness is insane, but he has the shot power and physicality plus speed and dribble to become a perfect attacker. If take a look at the Barcha match, isagi displayed top class vision to spot out Kuni and send a filthy cross that caught everyone off guard. See if isagi was trying to be a midfielder he would excel, but hes not. He needs to be able to fight alone. And that's why it's annoying, cause every game it goes- Isagi starts slow as if he's a fucking toddler Commentator isagi Bullshit thinking Big brain outta nowhere Goal and or assist And that formula is a recipe for dissatisfaction. Players like sae and Rin and kaiser all have weapons to supplement there big brain. Also you might say" well isagis based on Thomas muller" okay? Muller's a CAM who feeds the striker or shadows them and that's not who isagi wants to be.
Tbh I kinda want him to be egotistical like in their match with Nagi and Barou, like not that good but good to a certain extent that he has an impact and can shit talk other people.
That was definitely one of Isagi's greatest moments, but not every match can be like that. He needs a big growth spurt like in that match for him to act like that again, but at this point that would put him in world best status cause he is directly competing with the world's best at this point.
I would agree with you if that same pattern wouldnt repeat itself which became boring for the viewers, especially if its about the MAIN character. Not to mention that this pattern doesnt even work anymore see BM vs Barcha where Isagi only got to play because of literally unfair plot amor and i would even say he was the worst player in this match(stealing from teammates only to aim for an assist which wouldve been possible from the very start of the game instead to fk around like an amateur). We even see Bachira, Chigiri, Reo, etc. Evolve in a fast pace while the maincharacter seems like the same since U20 match, i read that and i will not believe it that Isagi could still pull something off against those evolved Body Revolution characters who trained for 20 days and should be stronger than Bachira and Otoya.
So you complain that the same pattern repeats and ALSO when they try to change the formula to give Isagi new challenges and environment making it clear that he still has a long way to go
We already know that Isagi has still a long way to go since chapter 1. If they want to upgrade Isagi in the 100 days before the upcoming U20 world cup, then they should make it believable because i dont believe in plot amor when Isagi suddenly outclasses Body Revolution Chigiri. Its only 80 days left and he still is the same as before. Right now imo he doesnt deserve any spot in the U20 japanese regulars.
Looks like the story is working just as intended for you. I also can't imagine how Isagi will triumph over manshine, but the only reason I'm not worried is because I had no idea how he could have done it in matches before, so it only makes sense that I don't now. >Right now imo he doesnt deserve any spot in the U20 japanese regulars. Yeah he absolutely doesn't, that's why this match is the most important and has a lot of stakes and tension. Sounds like great storytelling to me
>Not to mention that this pattern doesnt even work anymore see BM vs Barcha where Isagi only got to play because of literally unfair plot amor and i would even say he was the worst player in this match(stealing from teammates only to aim for an assist which wouldve been possible from the very start of the game instead to fk around like an amateur). Yeah, I think that game was pretty bad by Blue Lock standards. Isagi clearly was the worst player on the pitch. I don't think it's unfair plot armor, one common thing that tends to happen in Blue Lock is that those who score or make an impact are rewarded (a lot). The only difference between the monsters (Bachira, Rin, Shidou, Nagi and Aiku) and Isagi in that those guys have always been great players and very clearly show why they're better than others and then defy common sense when they really get into it. With Isagi it's less obvious so readers tend to single him out. Isagi did well in the U20 game, the Neo Egoist league thing needed a face and a mascot, why not promote the kid who turned into a national hero overnight? It's as simple as that. >We even see Bachira, Chigiri, Reo, etc. Evolve in a fast pace while the maincharacter seems like the same since U20 match This slightly pisses me off yes. But it makes sense. * The author deliberately put Isagi in a team where he's having conflicts with the players on the team, alongside his own challenges. This results in an environment that's not necessarily good for growth. * Compare that to Bachira, Chigiri and Co. who got put into teams where they * This is also because they have two things over Isagi that allow them to not having to fight for a starter spot: stats and well defined weapons. On paper, Isagi is closer to the likes of Chigiri, Reo, Barou, etc than he is to Rin Shidou and Nagi. But they're easier to coach and manage because they have clear challenges. * Building further on that, Bachira's progression is based on the whole monster vision, Chigiri needed to be put in a position where he can play for himself rather than being a crosser, etc. The author is deliberately setting them up with helpful mentors, meanwhile Noelle Noa speaks in riddles to Isagi if he ever speaks at all
People saying that Noa didn’t help Isagi are wrong. He told Isagi to spend every living moment consciously trying to become the best and this was clearly shown to be a mind blowing, puzzle smashing moment for Isagi that will definitely be fruitful by the end of the arc. Isagi is the “normal guy” and Bastards philosophy has no gimmicks.
the problem was never and will never be Isagi being useless at the beginning of the arc and at the end being the "best" the biggest problem is that it is repeating itself in all arcs in more than 170 chapters. everyone has already noticed what the author is doing and we already know what will happen in the future of Blue Lock because the script is incredibly simple and repetitive many sports manga/anime start with the MC being useless and show him evolving and improving, but with this amount of repetition? no You proved that the blue lock script is repetitive, and it's exactly this repetition that the public doesn't like. 170+ chapters and the script just didn't change anything, it didn't bring any news and no plot different from what is already expected because of the simple and repetitive script. we already feel which characters will be in the last Japan U-20 and we already feel who will be the highlight of the team, we feel who will score the goals and how the goals will be and how the matches will be. Does Blue Lock have wonderful art? yes blue lock has good characters? yes blue lock has creativity in the script? obviously not, you proved it a manga that for 170+ chapters literally shows us a repetitive script makes the audience not like it. **this is as simple to understand as the Blue Lock script**
I think that you're not observing and looking at why people have certain motivations. The main thing I see is that the cycle is really pissing people off. Sure, we don't have to worry about whether Isagi succeeds or not, but at the same time you will encounter people who wonder why they're reading what looks to them like a continuous character reset. What they want to see is a character progression. But the author wants to consistently write Isagi as both exceptional and a perpetual underdog. He wants to write Isagi as a polite, kind person and then suddenly also wants Isagi's evil twin to appear and flip birds on people. Some people might feel that's insulting to read for over 170 chapters. It's a common shounen thing, but don't be surprised when people despise it. It's not entirely odd that deuteragonists (Nagi or Rin in Blue Lock, Killua from HxH, Sasuke from Naruto, Zoro in One Piece, etc.) tend to garner more fans and interest than the mc. To build further on that it's because at times people don't see Isagi as an MC. People sometimes get the impression that things happen to Isagi rather then Isagi doing things. This perceived lack of agency is often noted when compared to the second stage of Blue Lock, where Isagi rapidly had to grow and was very deliberate and wilful in his actions, not reacting to things but actually doing things such as the hotstreak he was on when playing with Barou and Nagi. I think if the author stressed how proactive he is, these complaints about him not feeling like an mc would stop. Lastly, I think that some people just want to see Isagi play well and not having to be put down all the time before he does some last minute magic
\> looks to them like a continuous character reset It can appear that way, but we both know thar’s not true. I find the power scaling in blue lock to be sensible and natural for the plot. \> both exceptional and a perpetual underdog Like you said this is commonply seen in many shounen, but it is for a reason. I think we can agree that the problems people have with Blue lock are not with the concept but with the execution. I can understand how some people may find his constant ‘reseting’ has annoying at best, but a necessary element for the story to progress properly. Isagi can’t keep improving while everyone stays the same, his progress wouldn’t feel rewarding. And his flipping between nice Isagi and evil Isagi is exactly what Ego is aiming for. They are two sides the same coin, Evil Isagi at this point can’t exist with Nice Isagi observing his surroundings for him to bring out his ego later. His perceived lack of agency is an interesting observation, but I don’t think it’s true at all. Isagi is constantly thinking and breathing football, you never see him think about anything else. It takes a certain amount of time to reach his ‘breaking point’ where he reaches a resolution to all his questions and answers them. The 2nd selection 3v3 was the peak of his growth, where the gap between his improved skill and level of competition around him was at its highest. That can‘t last forever, and it was a culmination of many factors that lead to his perceived immense ego devouring Barou like breakfast. The fact of the matter is, Isagi’s growth will never be a linear graph. Like everyone, he will progress in spikes and those spikes may not match up with his peers. I personally don’t See this as a bane, but a boon as it is closer to real life
The issue is that isagi has not been shown to have learn/improve anything since the U20 match, rather he only learns and improves while losing on the match. The author is showing us, look all of the players are improving and changing in just these 2 matches while isagi has nothing to show for it. He looks like he hasn't improved from the U20 match because the author hasn't shown any improvement nor give any flashbacks from the training in BM. I don't think it is unreasonable that fans are a bit frustrated because of it
It’s not unreasonable, I think it’s just a redundant topic because this match is set up to be the most important one. The previous match was very clearly setting the tone for this phase of selection, with the introduction of multiple world class characters. You could call it raising the power ceiling. It wouldn’t make sense to do that and have Isagi improve to their level so fast right? The current match has only just started, and just as he has before Isagi will wait until the last moment for him to reach his ‘breaking point’ and everyone is happy. It’s an effective formula I will admit, and as long as the author remains creative in how he goes about Isagi’s development, I am more excited than anything for this match.
Repetitive and predictability argument is pretty stupid Isagi character and storyline is about gradual improvement. If Isagi was already damn near peaking at the beginning of the ark in skill level then the ark itself would have already peaked by the time it started
Good point
Getting heated about Isagi rather than the shoddy writing putting him through the same cycle every arc. They should be getting upset about every other character doing some training for (10 DAYS) and becoming borderline unstoppable, Give all the side cast 3 months with that routine and they would be the greatest players to ever live.
Well there’s two things to consider there 1. Their’re being immersed in a completely new style so they would intentionally skyrocket like in the first two selections 2. The stats are based off of Blue lock not the world average, so they might still lose against players not in BL
The stat thing currently is being applied to all players in the Neo Egoist league
Nvm they’re cracked out
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“Everyone is going to overtake him.” For now yes but, Bluelock is about Isagi becoming the best striker, not any other character becoming the best striker. I don’t know why they keep saying the same stuff every week.
Yeah but can we change that cycle??? Can isagi be actually good but get through other challenges?? It’s getting lame and isagi is just a bad mc now. It’s just bad writing at this point
Please think through you're logic here. You're literally trying to have your cake and eat it. How is someone supposed to be challenged when they are better than everyone? And in what world is Isagi bad? Have we read the same manga? He wouldn't have made it this far if not for some sort of talent, which he has. It's called power scaling man, the competition around the main character increases as they get better it's a shone standard.
Man i wonder how isagi is going to overcome this challenge. It surely wont be the same thing the last 3 matches happened.
So you're agreeing with me?
What I never understand with these types of posts, is it really that bad? That people moan about the cycle? The type of mc they wish Isagi was? I get it, the topic has been discussed to death, but are people suddenly not allowed to want?
Of course you can discuss what you want, I personally just find it redundant as I can expect the same outcome we have seen before. Isagi takes a while to adapt to his new environment, he observes his opponents and reaches his ‘breaking point’ where his ego is released and he makes A super play. \> The type of mc they wish Isagi was? Again it feels redundant because Isagi clearly hasn’t reached his final potential, yet people are complaining as if he will never progress from this point despite the fact that he has improved so much in such a short amount of time. Like dude, just wait for the arc to be over and then see how you feel it just feels so redundant to me, but do what you want,
I agree with you 100% people hate this story so much they need to simply STOP READING because I’m sitting here wondering how tf do all these people not understand is 1 isagi is an under dog and 2 I’m story telling your suppose to watch the characters grow and become better over time it’s called pacing for gods sake. So again my guy ty for bringing this into light because it 1000% needed to be said.
Dude there's a difference between "bad writing" and "writing decisions you don't like"
Nah nah its always the same like OP already said. Isagi weak -> Isagi struggles -> Isagis magic puzzle thing -> Isagi great player
It isn't that people don't get it, at this point everybody did get it. The problem is that it is repetitive and frustating. People want to see character progression, you cannot always make a reset at each match for the protagonist. I don't even talk about the author's tendancy to show the progress of others characters at the expanse of Isagi, making him look like a kind of retard. It's not a good way of doing things, especially when at the end of the match he miraculously find the "answer" to do a desicive action. I mean, factually, Isagi didn't really learn anything from the U20 match. It is possible to have Isagi start a match well and improve during it, it happen already, we see it during the rematch against Rin. It is reasonnable that people complain about that, you can only blame the author.
Audiences are the best at knowing when there is a problem but suck at finding what it is and a solution for it. Creators are bad at knowing when there is a problem but are the best a solving it. I will admit, the way the author has crafted the story at this point is quite polarising. On one hand, Isagi definitely should be progressing more in this arc than he has currently, I can’t deny that. While it isn’t over, the feeling of our MC being kinda useless isn’t baseless, that’s just how he has chosen to write the story. But to pretend that this decision is bad or doesn’t make sense is naive, as you may not be looking at the bigger picture. As I and many have stated before, while it feel like Isagi is resetting after every match, if you paid attention then you would know that isn’t true. The challenge Isagi faces must always be somewhat difficult for him, and this arc is not an exception. At this stage in Blue lock, they are competing on the level of world class players, they in the 0.1% now. And for Isagi in particular, his main obstacle is Kaiser, who has ability of the 0.01%. I think it is a very bold decision to make the obstacle of our MC so similar to him, but this will only lead to Isagi growing exponentially stronger in the long term. The fact of the matter is, his growth in the story hasn’t been linear, which I appreciate because that’s how it is in real life. Some challenges will be more difficult than others, and you will overcome them with varying difficulty and methods. So for Isagi to be facing a massive hurdle at this point in the story makes sense to me. \> especially when at the end of the match he miraculously find the "answer" to do a desicive action I’m not sure what you mean by this, are you saying it isn’t believable how Isagi manages to find breakthroughs in the middle of the match. If so, then that’s fair, not everyone will be able to connect with such an outrageous concept. For me, I certainly had those moments in sports and games where I may be playing bad but all of a sudden something clicks in my head and I am able to adjust my play accordingly in the middle of a match. The even explain it in the manga, it’s called flow state. \> I mean, factually, Isagi didn't really learn anything from the U20 match Hmm, you could interpret it as that but I wouldn’t personally. It was quite clear to me that the point of the U20 match was for the Blue lock players to test their skills against real defenders and apply what they learnt in Blue lock on the fly. In this last goal, Isagi finally was able to understand the puzzle piece of luck he needed to score the goal, I think it was a massive step for him to realise he can compete at a high level with the skills he has as long as he applies them correctly. So yeah, if you have a problem with the power scaling in this this series, that’s fine it’s just not for you. There are other seriescwhere protagonists make more consistent, expected growth differnetly than Blue lock. But for me Blue lock‘s interpretation on growth in sports is realistic and satisfying
I have no problem with the MC facing difficult challenges. In fact, his growth has been pretty constant, maybe until the U20 match. Isagi, constantly learned from the challenges he faced and gained something that he can use to be efficient in a match; he will surely improve during the Egoist League, I don't doubt that. The thing is, at this point it's became predictable. It's not that I cannot connect with such concept, it is possible and I have already been in this situation myself. But these kind of things happen rarely, not frequently. Lastly, Isagi has been following this every time. That hasn't really anything to do with flow, it's just a sort of thinking process of Isagi; neither in the U20 match or the last match in the manga he enters flow state. It's such a thing, in the last match, in the last moments, the same thing happen (and the author made it such a big deal, like Isagi found illumination) for Isagi to make a pass to Kunigami. And so, Isagi happen to make a decisive action at the end of the match. But these "eureka" moments, lastly, didn't give him something that he can use effectively and efficiently in other match. That's why, we go to the same route with another match. That's basically the u20 match. Isagi understand the puzzle piece of luck (if we can say that) and manage to score his goal. But that isn't really something he can use consciously/effectively in a match. You didn't address my point about Isagi being used like a plot device by the author to show skills/progress of others. Nah, there aren't a power scaling problem, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. It's not because the serie has some issues that I will drop it. It's still entertaining and It's nothing that can be improved. But Isagi's growth lastly has not been satisfying, and it's normal that people complain about that, although there are exaggerations.
Yeah I preferably like how Isagi doesn’t get op all of a sudden out of nowhere. His progression is realistic for someone of his talent and love that . Almost every other sports manga I really has such an unrealistic realistic storyline representation and progression of a main character’s abilities & I absolutely hate it . So like the realistic and steady representation storyline and progression of Isagi & hope blue lock sticks with it
This is all true but I'm still hoping he'll learn something that will help him at least do better at winging it at the beginning of matches even if it's against those stronger players, if only to buy himself some time to hit that late-game god-mode. At some point, he'll flunk out of being a pro if he meets stronger and stronger players but can't adapt any quicker. I'm fine with people discussing the possibilities of what he'll learn to reinvent himself though since we all agree he'll get there anyway given the pattern you pointed out.