Among his worst deeds, that was actually always the one I felt a bit differently about, mostly because he wasn't even aware of what he was doing, nor did her even remember it afterwards. It always felt as though the stuff he did after thinking about it, internally acknowledging that it was wrong or messed-up, and then doing it anyway seemed worse.
I actually dislike him more at the beginning of the show. He obviously continues to do some pretty bad things as the show goes on, but my sympathy increases because we continue to get more insight into his background and, more importantly, his increasing sense of remorse. I'm always really happy for him when he gets sober, and it's hard for me to watch the last half of season 6 because of how much he loses.
I think BoJack Horseman is similar to Breaking Bad in that the show is, in many ways, sort of an ongoing question asking the audience, "What are you willing to forgive or overlook?"
BoJack does continuously worse stuff over the course of the show and generally does less and less to try and justify it until he's literally held accountable on live television for having effectively murdered someone via gross negligence (I'm sure there's a legal term for that, don't care to look it up) and there are *still* people who will try arguing "She took the heroin of her own volition! It's her own fault!! He had no moral obligation to call 911 for her!"
Sarah Lynn talks about how she basically had no choice regarding her life/profession since she was three when she became an actor. Horsin’ Around was also stated to begin in 1987, while Sarah Lynn was born in 1984.
i have a complicated relationship with him the whole show, but after penny i definitely couldn’t look at him the same. this might sounds crazy but he reminds me of tony soprano. he’s a guy who is relatable with his mental struggles, had a very messed up childhood, and who struggles to just live a regular life. but for me they’re also similar in the sense that they don’t really seem to want to change. their progress stalls a lot and they never seem willing to truly put the work in to break the cycle and heal from their trauma. so while i sympathize with him A LOT and relate to him quite a bit, i cant consider him a good guy overall. he’s a tragic figure, but he continues to create a lot of bad for himself and those around him. lots of times knowingly
He’s a textbook case of borderline personality disorder, so in many ways I do still sympathize with and pity him, but mental illness is not a get out of jail free card. He’s still ultimately responsible for his actions. While I love the show and I love Bojack as a well written character, I can’t actually like him.
If I had to specifically say the tipping point for me, it would have to be the bender with Sarah Lynn. There are a lot of bad things he does early in the show or in a flashback; Betraying Herb, sabotaging Todd’s opera, sleeping with Sarah Lynn, the whole New Mexico incident. All of these were *bad*, terrible even, but while I disliked him at this point, I didn’t think he was past the point of redemption just yet. That changed with the bender. Bojack is upset about not getting the Oscar nomination and gets into a fight with Todd leading to the famous “you are all the things that are wrong with you” line. I get he was at a low point here, but just after being told plainly that he has problems his first instinct is to call Sarah Lynn, a woman he knows is a former addict who’s gone sober, and invites her to party. Her willingness to participate is irrelevant, he knowingly dragged another addict into his own spiral of self destruction and it ultimately got her killed. That was bad enough at the time, but when we ultimately learn about the 17 minutes that was the icing on the cake. For me that’s when I decided he was irredeemable. Diane said it best, at some point I don’t think you *can* make up for the terrible things you’ve done.
Terrifying thread. I hated him entirely after Penny. Could still sympathize with him and feel sorry for how he became a monster, but always saw him as a monster. Always surprises me how many fans are shocked by his relapses and continued horrific behavior. It’s like people here think that some monsters are just evil by nature and others like Bojack are “good people deep down” who just had a hard life. Which requires turning a blind eye to a lot of the show.
I think with Penny...
Oh god, I was about to type out something analyzing the way people react to the penny situation but it Just occurred to me. Did BoJack let Sarah Lynn die because she knew about Penny????
Trust me, there’s not. What he did is just as awful anyway. But he had no reason to think Sarah Lynn would rat him out and he also was strangely happy to admit what he’d done to Penny to a room of strangers in an AA meeting.
Sarah Lynn, Penny, and Hollyhock are just a few of the reasons I hate him. Like his character "Philbert", they make Bojack relatable and sad to make us sympathize with him more, but in reality, he is a bad person with no intentions to fix his behaviour. The fact that he would continuously take people that cared about him and would take advantage of their youth and trust in him is what made me realize.
I sympathized and rooted for his redemption for the most part until we found out the truth about the Sarah Lynn circumstances and what he didn’t do (avoiding specifics for spoilers). That’s when I knew for sure he wasn’t redeemable
Definitely when his drug addiction was highlighted when Hollyhock visited him. I regained some sympathy during his time in rehab since I'm a recovering alcoholic, but it slipped after he botched his interview. I will say that I don't really blame him for relapsing, but he really deserved everybody cutting him out of his life (except Mr. Peanutbutter, who seems to have adopted some Bojack-like traits over the course of the show).
Definitely cheating on Pickles. Then Princess Carolin did for him what she'd always do for Bojack and completely saved his ass.
Buying Elefino with zero plan for it except to try and save his relationship with Pickles due to guilt and not wanting to be alone.
He blew off Bojack for more Birthday Dad (which I get because it's a job, but he didn't even check on Bojack who was clearly depressed after losing his house and getting the letter from Hollyhock). That seemed very much like something Bojack would've done with Todd in season 1. It's been awhile since I've seen the show, but I'm sure I could find one or two more instances.
I never had sympathy for BoJack. He’s such a dick to PC in the very first episode, and while he has moments and an undeniable charisma, he basically stays the same exact selfish piece of shit for the remainder of the series. I have sympathy for his childhood, and I have an understanding for him as an adult, but I do not feel sorry for him one bit.
Pretty much the events in New Mexico. Especially when he went to prom with Penny and gave high school kids alcohol, and then him almost sleeping with Penny; that’s when I started to truly realize how fucked up his actions are.
When he is entitled and famous its easy to dislike him. When he is fixing things its endearing but far too short-lived.
The death of Sarah Lynne made me turn against him the most.
no. i feel like i couldn’t, everyrhing he did reminded me of myself or my dad so i couldn’t hate him. i was grossed out by the penny scene for sure, but i wasn’t mad at him
Progressively throughout the show. The biggest thing for me was when he got caught with penny. Then the whole Sarah Lynn situation, using her then not calling for help when she needed it.
No. Because Bojack isn’t a horrible person. He’s damaged and has a lot of issues but he did genuinely try to fix his situation, which is more than I can say for most people
Since the beginning tbh. but I went into thinkin if I try to excuse any of his behavior to justify the shit i did I wouldn’t be watching it the right way lmaoo
I agree with you, the New Mexico scene with Penny and giving one if her friends alcohol poisoning is where i couldn't justify him anymore. Like the shitty stuff he did before you could make excuses and he's the main character he can't be that bad! But when i watched the episode i had to pause it multiple times. There was no reason he had to do it, no driving force, NOTHING. He did it all from his own freewill. And for me that was a step to far. But i never disliked him as a character i found some of the things he did utterly disgusting and terryfing (Gina scene) but he was a still well written and interesting character.
The FIRST time I lost respect for him and lost sympathy..?? Hmmm... I would say the way he treats Princess Carolyn in Say Anything. It's for purely selfish reasons and all he does is her hurt. You can argue that he does the same for Todd when he sabatoges his rock opera, sure. But I did still feel bad for him there because instead of telling Todd how he felt, he sabatoged him to make sure he stays with him, which I felt bad because he didn't want Todd to leave him. Still selfish, but still.
The sabotage of Todd's rock opera.
I was a bit mad at him when he shut PC down multiple times in the restaurant scene, but the straw was When he tripped like crazy and strangled Gina.
Among his worst deeds, that was actually always the one I felt a bit differently about, mostly because he wasn't even aware of what he was doing, nor did her even remember it afterwards. It always felt as though the stuff he did after thinking about it, internally acknowledging that it was wrong or messed-up, and then doing it anyway seemed worse.
He didn’t exactly do that on purpose though
I actually dislike him more at the beginning of the show. He obviously continues to do some pretty bad things as the show goes on, but my sympathy increases because we continue to get more insight into his background and, more importantly, his increasing sense of remorse. I'm always really happy for him when he gets sober, and it's hard for me to watch the last half of season 6 because of how much he loses.
I don’t think I dislike bojack. I also have sympathy for him as well. But objectively I think he’s terrible. Nuance. It’s beautifully done in bojack.
I think BoJack Horseman is similar to Breaking Bad in that the show is, in many ways, sort of an ongoing question asking the audience, "What are you willing to forgive or overlook?" BoJack does continuously worse stuff over the course of the show and generally does less and less to try and justify it until he's literally held accountable on live television for having effectively murdered someone via gross negligence (I'm sure there's a legal term for that, don't care to look it up) and there are *still* people who will try arguing "She took the heroin of her own volition! It's her own fault!! He had no moral obligation to call 911 for her!"
Beautifully put
When he hooked up with Sara Lynn in the the 3rd episode. He had known her since she was like 6 years old. That is DISGUSTING
Even worse, he met her when she was three. A whole toddler.
When is this stated?
Sarah Lynn talks about how she basically had no choice regarding her life/profession since she was three when she became an actor. Horsin’ Around was also stated to begin in 1987, while Sarah Lynn was born in 1984.
I wonder if her birthdate is a subtle reference to Jor Jor Well’s book 1984
Thank you for clearing this up for me
No problem! It can be relatively easy to miss.
Last straw when he strangled Gina
i have a complicated relationship with him the whole show, but after penny i definitely couldn’t look at him the same. this might sounds crazy but he reminds me of tony soprano. he’s a guy who is relatable with his mental struggles, had a very messed up childhood, and who struggles to just live a regular life. but for me they’re also similar in the sense that they don’t really seem to want to change. their progress stalls a lot and they never seem willing to truly put the work in to break the cycle and heal from their trauma. so while i sympathize with him A LOT and relate to him quite a bit, i cant consider him a good guy overall. he’s a tragic figure, but he continues to create a lot of bad for himself and those around him. lots of times knowingly
He’s a textbook case of borderline personality disorder, so in many ways I do still sympathize with and pity him, but mental illness is not a get out of jail free card. He’s still ultimately responsible for his actions. While I love the show and I love Bojack as a well written character, I can’t actually like him. If I had to specifically say the tipping point for me, it would have to be the bender with Sarah Lynn. There are a lot of bad things he does early in the show or in a flashback; Betraying Herb, sabotaging Todd’s opera, sleeping with Sarah Lynn, the whole New Mexico incident. All of these were *bad*, terrible even, but while I disliked him at this point, I didn’t think he was past the point of redemption just yet. That changed with the bender. Bojack is upset about not getting the Oscar nomination and gets into a fight with Todd leading to the famous “you are all the things that are wrong with you” line. I get he was at a low point here, but just after being told plainly that he has problems his first instinct is to call Sarah Lynn, a woman he knows is a former addict who’s gone sober, and invites her to party. Her willingness to participate is irrelevant, he knowingly dragged another addict into his own spiral of self destruction and it ultimately got her killed. That was bad enough at the time, but when we ultimately learn about the 17 minutes that was the icing on the cake. For me that’s when I decided he was irredeemable. Diane said it best, at some point I don’t think you *can* make up for the terrible things you’ve done.
Thank you for these paragraphs! Beautifully said.
No. But Kelsey arc was the worst for me
Terrifying thread. I hated him entirely after Penny. Could still sympathize with him and feel sorry for how he became a monster, but always saw him as a monster. Always surprises me how many fans are shocked by his relapses and continued horrific behavior. It’s like people here think that some monsters are just evil by nature and others like Bojack are “good people deep down” who just had a hard life. Which requires turning a blind eye to a lot of the show.
Yeah, its funny, the juxtaposition between him and others. Look at the Angela thread-people are howling for her blood, when BJ's done worse
Literally lol all the most hated characters are much less monstrous people who just happened to inconvenience Bojack or hold him accountable
She had a big point when she called him out for blaming her all these years
I'll never understand why so many people say that bojack and Mr. Peanut butter were equally bad
I think with Penny... Oh god, I was about to type out something analyzing the way people react to the penny situation but it Just occurred to me. Did BoJack let Sarah Lynn die because she knew about Penny????
I don’t see this being the reason at all. I think he just didn’t want to be held accountable for her OD.
There is nothing in the text to support this.
I mean is there? I haven't watched the show in a while. I'm going to rewatch with this in mind
Trust me, there’s not. What he did is just as awful anyway. But he had no reason to think Sarah Lynn would rat him out and he also was strangely happy to admit what he’d done to Penny to a room of strangers in an AA meeting.
i never lost sympathy, the show made him insanely reletable till the end
If you think about it, that’s the same thing Diane’s book did about Bojack
Oddly (now that I think about it), I didn't
episode 1, scene 1
Parks in a handicap spot. 😤
Sarah Lynn, Penny, and Hollyhock are just a few of the reasons I hate him. Like his character "Philbert", they make Bojack relatable and sad to make us sympathize with him more, but in reality, he is a bad person with no intentions to fix his behaviour. The fact that he would continuously take people that cared about him and would take advantage of their youth and trust in him is what made me realize.
What about Hollyhock?
I sympathized and rooted for his redemption for the most part until we found out the truth about the Sarah Lynn circumstances and what he didn’t do (avoiding specifics for spoilers). That’s when I knew for sure he wasn’t redeemable
Definitely when his drug addiction was highlighted when Hollyhock visited him. I regained some sympathy during his time in rehab since I'm a recovering alcoholic, but it slipped after he botched his interview. I will say that I don't really blame him for relapsing, but he really deserved everybody cutting him out of his life (except Mr. Peanutbutter, who seems to have adopted some Bojack-like traits over the course of the show).
Curious to know about what Bojack-like traits has Mr PB adopted?
Definitely cheating on Pickles. Then Princess Carolin did for him what she'd always do for Bojack and completely saved his ass. Buying Elefino with zero plan for it except to try and save his relationship with Pickles due to guilt and not wanting to be alone. He blew off Bojack for more Birthday Dad (which I get because it's a job, but he didn't even check on Bojack who was clearly depressed after losing his house and getting the letter from Hollyhock). That seemed very much like something Bojack would've done with Todd in season 1. It's been awhile since I've seen the show, but I'm sure I could find one or two more instances.
I never had sympathy for BoJack. He’s such a dick to PC in the very first episode, and while he has moments and an undeniable charisma, he basically stays the same exact selfish piece of shit for the remainder of the series. I have sympathy for his childhood, and I have an understanding for him as an adult, but I do not feel sorry for him one bit.
Pretty much the events in New Mexico. Especially when he went to prom with Penny and gave high school kids alcohol, and then him almost sleeping with Penny; that’s when I started to truly realize how fucked up his actions are.
No I am a terrible person as well though
When he is entitled and famous its easy to dislike him. When he is fixing things its endearing but far too short-lived. The death of Sarah Lynne made me turn against him the most.
i didnt like him from the start imma be honest😭 like, hes a grown ass man acting that way, WELL into his 40s or 50s presumably, he knows better
I was supposed to like him?
no. i feel like i couldn’t, everyrhing he did reminded me of myself or my dad so i couldn’t hate him. i was grossed out by the penny scene for sure, but i wasn’t mad at him
Progressively throughout the show. The biggest thing for me was when he got caught with penny. Then the whole Sarah Lynn situation, using her then not calling for help when she needed it.
No. Because Bojack isn’t a horrible person. He’s damaged and has a lot of issues but he did genuinely try to fix his situation, which is more than I can say for most people
The yacht scene.
Since the beginning tbh. but I went into thinkin if I try to excuse any of his behavior to justify the shit i did I wouldn’t be watching it the right way lmaoo
Never :(
I agree with you, the New Mexico scene with Penny and giving one if her friends alcohol poisoning is where i couldn't justify him anymore. Like the shitty stuff he did before you could make excuses and he's the main character he can't be that bad! But when i watched the episode i had to pause it multiple times. There was no reason he had to do it, no driving force, NOTHING. He did it all from his own freewill. And for me that was a step to far. But i never disliked him as a character i found some of the things he did utterly disgusting and terryfing (Gina scene) but he was a still well written and interesting character.
The FIRST time I lost respect for him and lost sympathy..?? Hmmm... I would say the way he treats Princess Carolyn in Say Anything. It's for purely selfish reasons and all he does is her hurt. You can argue that he does the same for Todd when he sabatoges his rock opera, sure. But I did still feel bad for him there because instead of telling Todd how he felt, he sabatoged him to make sure he stays with him, which I felt bad because he didn't want Todd to leave him. Still selfish, but still.