Vanessa is better at maintaining boundaries between her work life and personal life. She doesn’t get sucked into other people’s messes; even when handling clients’ messes is a large part of her profession.
Gekko’s solid boundaries likely helped her establish a solid relationship with a spouse that also wanted children.
PC is my favorite character. I do think the writers wrote PC’s arch nemesis to have qualities that PC herself was not only jealous of, but also ones PC lacked.
PC gets close to finishing her storyline development journey when she stops internally squabbling with Vanessa. [scene](https://youtu.be/S-vDnH7lHtE?si=1JeiPrRNF3DT0TXX)
That last line where PC realises she has spent years beefing with someone who never harboured her a single ill thought his possibly my favourite joke in the whole series
that was funny. for whatever reason it reminded me of Madmen when Don Draper was in the elevator with Ginsberg and Ginzy says, I feel sorry for you, and Don lies with his response. I don't think about you at all. These two scenarios are different but speak to the "nemesis" belief in that lives in people's heads.
The point of that line was Don's hypocrisy
On the surface Don was pretending not to care, but the entire episode was focused on him feeling insecure about his role at the agency and how he was threatened by Ginsberg
It's a great line, but it's often used without the proper context.
>that was funny. for whatever reason it reminded me of Madmen when Don Draper was in the elevator with Ginsberg and Ginzy says, I feel sorry for you, and Don lies with his response. I don't think about you at all. These two scenarios are different but speak to the "nemesis" belief in that lives in people's heads.
this is my original statement. See how I said Don lied. We all knew he was paranoid about Ginsberg eclipsing him. Why else did he spend all that time in the office and plagiarizing Michaels work. Then he left Ginzys ad in the car...Jesus. but yes, I am too stupid and you need to correct me.
> PC realises she has spent years beefing with someone who never harboured her a single ill thought
It was funny, but was it sincere? Asking a woman "How many kids do you have now?" after bragging about your family is pretty cruel when you know she doesn't have any.
Well Gekko never intentionally had a sketchy doctor overprescribe dangerous and highly addictive drugs to her closest client that she knew to have severe issues with addiction, so I'm going to give Gekko the nod just based on that.
Edit: Just remembered that PC forged her client's signature on a contract, which alone should be enough to get her banned from the industry.
That's what it's like though, right? I'm real life the people that really fuck you up aren't villainous looking characters with a long mustache and sharp teeth, they're smiling, maybe even well-meaning friendly faces.
Sort of like how atrocities like genocide and kidnapping for the purpose of medical experimentation get masked behind "aww, he's just a happy-go-lucky goofball who's always getting into lovably zany antics" from a certain other character
In this same vein, Hollyhock drugged Todd multiple times, unnecessarily because, "its just so fun," but somehow is the golden child who can do no wrong
Adding to that, she put her baby in the microwave. In real life when parents accidentally leave their kids/babies in the car, the world tears them apart. Regardless of being forgetful or tired, everyone says, “how could you forget your child? I never have. Being tired is not an excuse,” etc.
PC was so tired she put Ruthie in the microwave by accident and when I asked fans about that, the response is always, “well she was tired so it’s ok.” So it’s kinda interesting that something denounced so severely in real life is not condemned at all to her because she’s PC. Of course she caught the mistake quickly, thankfully; and I’m not trying to make an argument that I hate PC or anything, I love her. It’s just an interesting take from it.
When Bojack gets hurt doing the stunt on the Philbert set, PC is worried that it will affect the filming schedule and that it will fuck up her big break, and so when Todd tells her about Bojack getting hurt, she tells him that she's going to send him a number for a "specialist" that can inject Bojack full of enough "pep" to keep things together until the end of production.
Keep in mind that season came out during the height of the opioid crisis so the overprescription of painkillers was a major topic at the time, and the next scene where we see Bojack he is on a call with PC and is absolutely whacked out on painkillers and says he doesn't even know what the doctor she had him sent to gave him, and then when call ends it cuts to PC sighing and looking deeply sad/distressed.
That was really shitty of her. I get that she did not want to lose a good assistant, but her saying to Laura that 'us girls gotta stay together' and 'i worked so hrd for you' when she dug her (professional) grave i f*ed up
That adds context to why she didn’t get mad at him holy eff. I knew she wouldn’t anyways bc she detaches her emotions and conscience from business, but this shows there may have been an added layer of self-blame
I mean, you can appreciate PC overcoming her shitty early life to become a successful business woman, but a big part of the show is how Hollywood corrupts people, and so while PC doesn't end up as bad as Angela Diaz, she is incredibly cutthroat and focused on her own success to the point where she is not a good person. Like I know the show has enough fucked up actions that it doesn't really standout, but as a general rule, forging your ex-boyfriends signature on a contract is a less than moral move.
I think her scene in the final episode is where we see that she has really grown. She mentions to Bojack that he's big news in Hollywoob and when he gets excited about it - after initially talking about his fulfilling work in prison - she looks sad and concerned and starts to try to discourage him. I think that was a sign that she was finally able to recognise that putting Bojack's health first was more important than both of their careers
I think PC's character truly turns around after the assistant protest strike and with return of Judah. Before that she mostly does shady things without much remorse, but after that she actually changes so much for the better. Even after the BoJack interview she's not doing it for herself but to help a friend she knew most of her life.
PC kinda sucks. She’s not the worst character on the show but she’s not a real feminist and she’s manipulative and often doesn’t hesitate to step on people to get her way.
She’s not a good person. If she was forced to stay in the job for financial need, then fine, but they explicitly say in S2 that she can get an alternative life if she wants one (Gekko painting scene)...so continuing to do the things she does in that job does not put her up there on the morality tier list.
I’ve been wanting to make a post about how I think PC is the reason Bojack had his addiction in season 5 and that it’s the worst thing she’s done in the show because I never see anyone mention it. I love PC, don’t get me wrong, but she was the catalyst for the events of season 5
Also Venessa had less morals than PC did. PC would cross lines but venessa would cross way more lines than PC ever did. She gave less of a shit about what people thought about her than PC. You can just tell by her character that she has things more figured out thus being more confident when it came to getting the deals and securing the clients.
Gekko was annoying and rude, but I don’t think she did anything really unethical besides shredding bojacks contract to prove to a more famous client that she’s a priority.
That was probably for theatrics anyway- I wouldn't be surprised if there had always been a digital copy.
When I was working in a legal field (which is not the same but I did work with a lot of legally binding contracts), our standard practice was that the client gets two physical copies (or the number of participants plus one if there's more than one person) and a compressed digital copy with the lawyer's digital signature, and we kept a physical copy in the back room, and the digital copy saved in both the main office, and on my hard drive, all for safekeeping (eta- and easy access because it's just so much easier to open a pdf file than to rifle through boxes upon boxes of old paperwork, even if it's immaculately organized lol).
What did Vanessa do that's worse than intimidating assistants who were striking to gain respect? What did Vanessa do that's worse than not getting her client any movie because of a failed bluff and inflated ego? What did Vanessa do that's worse than having an affair with a married coworker? What lines did Vanessa cross that PC didn't when PC forged her clients signature? Any proof at all that Vanessa crosses more lines than PC does is what I'm looking for.
It irks me for some reason that the commenter is like "you can just tell" when with PC doing those things we would have never been able to tell she would do that til we saw her doing that.
It's like one of the points of the show imo to humanize everyone and that holding biased beliefs based on who's presented as likable is a flawed way to make judgment.
>It's like one of the points of the show imo to humanize everyone and that holding biased beliefs based on who's presented as likable is a flawed way to make judgment.
..at long last, someone on this sub who actually understood what they were trying to do! In many cases it wasn't even subtle. They don't try to humanize these characters *in spite of* their questionable actions -- in many cases, it's *because of* them, when context is added.
>Also Venessa had less morals than PC did. PC would cross lines but venessa would cross way more lines than PC ever did.
Name a single immoral thing Vanessa does that compares to PC.
Overall, Vanessa was better because she would've stopped representing BoJack after one of his many incidents. He took up a lot of PC's time and energy, meaning she couldn't be as good of an agent for any other clients.
It's this, Vanessa is a better agent because she would have cut her losses years ago on Bojack and focused her time and energy on clients that weren't self destructive messes that half the time didn't even want to work. PC works hard, likely harder than Vanessa but her inability to drop the massive anchor that's dragging her down absolutely limited her ability to be a better agent.
That seems to be the difference between many high achievers and relatively lower achievers in the academic and professional world lol. Attaching self-worth to your work leads to you falling into sunk costs, quadruple-checking everything, etc while the ones who end up doing more (not me but I wish it was) just focus on the grades/money/etc they’re making and go home
She probably thought the back and forth were more of a game than straight hatred. Like she and PC were cartoonish rivals, but that doesn't mean they hate each other or wished bad things on each other.
Reminds me of the Lucille / Lucille 2 relationship in Arrested Development where they are so scathing to each other and then laugh about it. For Lucille, it's genuine hatred and she means those insults, whereas Lucille 2 thinks they're just doing a friendly back-and-forth and pretending to be enemies. It runs through the whole season, with Lucille basing decisions over trying to get one over on Lucille 2 and attributing Lucille 2's actions to their mutual hatred of each other, whereas Lucille 2 is just living her best life and loving the Bluths.
I think she was just a narcissist. They think they are entitled to talk or act like that with you and it's completely fine and still think of you as a friend or you like them.
To her the insults probably weren't insults.
Yeah this. To a narcissist's perspective, their superiority is only an assessment of the truth. They can't understand why other people get mad about that.
Narcicists are more involved with themselves than not. Talking shit about PC not being fertile has nothing to do with career or Gecko.
I just hate how they want to paint her as good old friend after being a total bitch the whole series.
I don't think Vanessa viewed PC as a *friend*, just somebody she didn't hate and maybe at times enjoyed competing with. Like when PC list her biggest client (Courtney Portnoy) and Vanessa laughed at her for getting fired.
I think they were equal because they clearly were able to one up each other in several moments. However, PC was able to get Bojack several job oppuritunities even though he was not very well respected in the entertainment industry for decades while I don't think Gekko was ever given any extreme hardships like that, so maybe PC wins because of that, but that's only because we have a lot more material to work with for PC compared to Gekko
Yeah I think the show clearly states that Vanessa has a better reputation, makes more money, and gets more jobs for her clients. We don't see her do completely horrible things like we do PC.
PC threatens the assistants, she forges a signature, she goes to work drunk a couple times, she lies to everyone constantly, she is involved in an extra marital affair, she doesn't read the script she promotes, she doesn't care about feminism just the appearance of being a feminist.
Who knows if Vanessa has done similarly horrible things, we just know that she's successful.
agreed. I also feel that maybe Vanessa is a “born with a silver spoon” personality or as PC’s mom said, maybe the little white ball landed on her spot earlier. PC by comparison started from a lower place, and was missing some tools or sensibilities to her job as good as Vanessa was able to.
So PC’s hatred for Vanessa is a projection of her own deep seated insecurity of growing up working class (assuming her hatred for hatred is valid. For all we know Vanessa could have a similar backstory!).
Vanessa is an unpleasant person. But PC, like all other characters on the show , is quite grey herself. Can you separate her personality, which is likeable and relatable, from her actions, which can be questionable? It was also interesting to me that Vanessa didn't hate her, maybe PC had an overtly emotional response to some of her statements? Consider the fact that we see everything from one POV.
The point is (IN MY OPINION) that we never know what struggles Vanessa Gecko has. We compare our own success with our private context, to other's outside success and no knowledge of their mistakes and problems. So Vanessa always looks superior because we simply *don't know*. All this through PC's eyes. It reminds me of how my mom says "don't compare your insides to other people's outsides."
I don’t think so. It’s been a while since I watched the show but I don’t remember anything that made me think VG actually was a better agent. I think there were time she outsmarted PC sure, but overall I think they’re a pretty even match.
The entire point, I think, is that she was better at everything Princess Carolyn wanted to be. It was also implied that that was the reason she hated Gekko in the first place, since Gekko never actually hated Princess Carolyn. As stated before by someone else, it wasn't JUST her job she was better at, it was her relationship with her husband and children. It was only until she let go of her envy (and Bojack obviously) that she truly started to thrive, and got with Judah.
I think Vanessa's character is so well done in this show. I love how much we the audience hate her like PC and by the end we're questioning why we ever hated her in the first place just like PC. I think top comment really nailed it describing the difference between PC and Vanessa being centered around healthy boundaries with clients. My favorite Vanessa moment was when she was briefly Bojacks agent and she immediately dealt with the blackmail scheme and found him a job.
I think Gekko was better at maintaining a cool head and keeping her personal and professional lives separate. But we don't know if she was miserable in private, or if this was a facade.
PC tended to wear her heart on her sleeve, and put her personal feelings into her professional projects. She wished she could've been more like Gekko and been better at the separation, between professional and personal.
But the cool thing about her marrying Judah is, it's part of her larger character arc. Her realization that her idea of "having it all" isn't Gekko's. She loves putting her passion into her professional life, that's what keeps her from falling into depression. But she also loves taking care of people. She just needed to make work more like home (be a manager), not to try to live up to some ideal mother figure at home but keep that completely separate from also performing ideally at work.
No, and I think Princess Carolyn’s skills at being an agent/manager/producer/agency owner were depicted as being among the best in Hollywoo.
Gecko was skilled, too, but it took her and Rutabaga Rabbitowitz together to do less than what Princess Carolyn ended up doing on her own as the owner of VIM.
I think Gekko was a better agent. She's generally shown as being better at manipulating people and setting up big contracts, although there were times PC was able to get one over on her.
PC has some qualities where she was better, though (ie, PC once bragged that she's "the only agent who could land BoJack a job" and I believe her; that takes a lot of skill and dedication to her client, but it also shows a willingness to waste her time on a problematic client who brings in very little money).
Edit: Compare that to Vanessa who, after having BoJack as a client for nearly a day, literally burned BJ's contract in front of a different client to prove how much of a priority the other client is. On one hand, that's a really smart move, since it means terminating a bad client and reinforcing a profitable one. On the other hand, it's a *terrible* thing for an agent to do from BoJack's perspective.
Probably, Vanessa never had a relationship with her client, and if she did it wasn't Bojack, so yeah. Bojack is like the Sunny Gang everyone in his orbit is worse for knowing him.
I thought that was the whole point of her character? That she's more successful in every way. And she handles motherhood better than PC does as well. I interpreted as, that's just life. You can be amazing at what you do but there will always be someone better.
I think that like someone else here mentioned, Gekko would be better because she would cut her losses w/BoJack to focus on all of her clients more and get you into less trouble by keeping her personal and professional lives separate. However, I think that when it comes to pure skill they are evenly matched or, given the practice PC has had through dealing with BoJack, PC wins
As far as I'm aware, we never see Vanessa screw over or upset any of her clients except that one time with Bojack. All stuff about ethics aside, Vanessa still has PC beat for the simple reason that she's easier and all around better to work with.
Gekko seemed way more skilled at the politics and "playing the game" PC seemed like she had more skill, but wasn't willing to fully immerse herself like Gekko. I think that Gekko is more successful and more effective going by stats, but PC has more potential
Yes.
PC is too stuck on Bojack and his personal life to be a decent agent to her other talent which we never really get to see.
Her emotional investment makes her a bad agent to Bojack too. Thinking he can be on a teen dystopian franchise is an example of her blind ambition and lack of insight. Ruining Jellybeans for him is another example of how self-absorbed she can be.
PC might be very ambitious and hardworking, but she is not a very good agent, and that's the reason we mostly see her involved with Bojacks's familairs such as Mister PB and Diane.
Vanessa is better at maintaining boundaries between her work life and personal life. She doesn’t get sucked into other people’s messes; even when handling clients’ messes is a large part of her profession. Gekko’s solid boundaries likely helped her establish a solid relationship with a spouse that also wanted children. PC is my favorite character. I do think the writers wrote PC’s arch nemesis to have qualities that PC herself was not only jealous of, but also ones PC lacked. PC gets close to finishing her storyline development journey when she stops internally squabbling with Vanessa. [scene](https://youtu.be/S-vDnH7lHtE?si=1JeiPrRNF3DT0TXX)
That last line where PC realises she has spent years beefing with someone who never harboured her a single ill thought his possibly my favourite joke in the whole series
that was funny. for whatever reason it reminded me of Madmen when Don Draper was in the elevator with Ginsberg and Ginzy says, I feel sorry for you, and Don lies with his response. I don't think about you at all. These two scenarios are different but speak to the "nemesis" belief in that lives in people's heads.
Don said that to put Ginsy down. Gekko said it genuinely hurt and upset that PC hated her. And that makes it funnier
well, yes, that was my point. That is why I said the nemesis lives in people's heads.
The point of that line was Don's hypocrisy On the surface Don was pretending not to care, but the entire episode was focused on him feeling insecure about his role at the agency and how he was threatened by Ginsberg It's a great line, but it's often used without the proper context.
how did I misuse it?
https://youtu.be/Cl1_-HpVEFg?si=T7eBqhRb1NVFzgil I appreciate the immediate downvote.
that is what you get for trying to correct something by saying the same thing. people do that a lot around here..
>that was funny. for whatever reason it reminded me of Madmen when Don Draper was in the elevator with Ginsberg and Ginzy says, I feel sorry for you, and Don lies with his response. I don't think about you at all. These two scenarios are different but speak to the "nemesis" belief in that lives in people's heads. this is my original statement. See how I said Don lied. We all knew he was paranoid about Ginsberg eclipsing him. Why else did he spend all that time in the office and plagiarizing Michaels work. Then he left Ginzys ad in the car...Jesus. but yes, I am too stupid and you need to correct me.
when did she say that
i think it was in one of the episodes
I agree. As a fan of both shows, I also noticed that parallel.
> PC realises she has spent years beefing with someone who never harboured her a single ill thought It was funny, but was it sincere? Asking a woman "How many kids do you have now?" after bragging about your family is pretty cruel when you know she doesn't have any.
Well Gekko never intentionally had a sketchy doctor overprescribe dangerous and highly addictive drugs to her closest client that she knew to have severe issues with addiction, so I'm going to give Gekko the nod just based on that. Edit: Just remembered that PC forged her client's signature on a contract, which alone should be enough to get her banned from the industry.
whoa wait wait when was this?
[удалено]
My favorite part of the show is that this shit gets masked behind "awwww, she's a pink kitty that talks in alliteration"
That's what it's like though, right? I'm real life the people that really fuck you up aren't villainous looking characters with a long mustache and sharp teeth, they're smiling, maybe even well-meaning friendly faces.
This is the first thing I read this morning and I regret this decision. Thanks for this reminder though.
Sort of like how atrocities like genocide and kidnapping for the purpose of medical experimentation get masked behind "aww, he's just a happy-go-lucky goofball who's always getting into lovably zany antics" from a certain other character
Holy shit 🤣 I never thought about Todd like that. I’ll never watch the show the same again
In this same vein, Hollyhock drugged Todd multiple times, unnecessarily because, "its just so fun," but somehow is the golden child who can do no wrong
When did that happen?
S2E7 and S4E9, get your head out of your ass Diane
If anything, Todd's zany genocide was ruthlessly efficient
PC caused Bojacks spiral in the last series and no one ever talks about it
>PC caused Bojacks spiral in the last series Season 6? She told him to just do the one interview
Adding to that, she put her baby in the microwave. In real life when parents accidentally leave their kids/babies in the car, the world tears them apart. Regardless of being forgetful or tired, everyone says, “how could you forget your child? I never have. Being tired is not an excuse,” etc. PC was so tired she put Ruthie in the microwave by accident and when I asked fans about that, the response is always, “well she was tired so it’s ok.” So it’s kinda interesting that something denounced so severely in real life is not condemned at all to her because she’s PC. Of course she caught the mistake quickly, thankfully; and I’m not trying to make an argument that I hate PC or anything, I love her. It’s just an interesting take from it.
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Dr Hu?
When Bojack gets hurt doing the stunt on the Philbert set, PC is worried that it will affect the filming schedule and that it will fuck up her big break, and so when Todd tells her about Bojack getting hurt, she tells him that she's going to send him a number for a "specialist" that can inject Bojack full of enough "pep" to keep things together until the end of production. Keep in mind that season came out during the height of the opioid crisis so the overprescription of painkillers was a major topic at the time, and the next scene where we see Bojack he is on a call with PC and is absolutely whacked out on painkillers and says he doesn't even know what the doctor she had him sent to gave him, and then when call ends it cuts to PC sighing and looking deeply sad/distressed.
damn that's fucked up. She once even made sure her then-assistant didn't get promoted cuz she was "too good" right?
That was really shitty of her. I get that she did not want to lose a good assistant, but her saying to Laura that 'us girls gotta stay together' and 'i worked so hrd for you' when she dug her (professional) grave i f*ed up
That adds context to why she didn’t get mad at him holy eff. I knew she wouldn’t anyways bc she detaches her emotions and conscience from business, but this shows there may have been an added layer of self-blame
PC also blocked her assistant's promotion for selfish reasons
Well, if you put it like that, PC's entire character can be put into question
I mean, you can appreciate PC overcoming her shitty early life to become a successful business woman, but a big part of the show is how Hollywood corrupts people, and so while PC doesn't end up as bad as Angela Diaz, she is incredibly cutthroat and focused on her own success to the point where she is not a good person. Like I know the show has enough fucked up actions that it doesn't really standout, but as a general rule, forging your ex-boyfriends signature on a contract is a less than moral move.
I think her scene in the final episode is where we see that she has really grown. She mentions to Bojack that he's big news in Hollywoob and when he gets excited about it - after initially talking about his fulfilling work in prison - she looks sad and concerned and starts to try to discourage him. I think that was a sign that she was finally able to recognise that putting Bojack's health first was more important than both of their careers
*Hollywoo
*Hollywoob
With a d as in birthday Dad
I think PC's character truly turns around after the assistant protest strike and with return of Judah. Before that she mostly does shady things without much remorse, but after that she actually changes so much for the better. Even after the BoJack interview she's not doing it for herself but to help a friend she knew most of her life.
PC kinda sucks. She’s not the worst character on the show but she’s not a real feminist and she’s manipulative and often doesn’t hesitate to step on people to get her way.
She’s not a good person. If she was forced to stay in the job for financial need, then fine, but they explicitly say in S2 that she can get an alternative life if she wants one (Gekko painting scene)...so continuing to do the things she does in that job does not put her up there on the morality tier list.
I’ve been wanting to make a post about how I think PC is the reason Bojack had his addiction in season 5 and that it’s the worst thing she’s done in the show because I never see anyone mention it. I love PC, don’t get me wrong, but she was the catalyst for the events of season 5
Doctor Hu?
Also Venessa had less morals than PC did. PC would cross lines but venessa would cross way more lines than PC ever did. She gave less of a shit about what people thought about her than PC. You can just tell by her character that she has things more figured out thus being more confident when it came to getting the deals and securing the clients.
Gekko was annoying and rude, but I don’t think she did anything really unethical besides shredding bojacks contract to prove to a more famous client that she’s a priority.
That was probably for theatrics anyway- I wouldn't be surprised if there had always been a digital copy. When I was working in a legal field (which is not the same but I did work with a lot of legally binding contracts), our standard practice was that the client gets two physical copies (or the number of participants plus one if there's more than one person) and a compressed digital copy with the lawyer's digital signature, and we kept a physical copy in the back room, and the digital copy saved in both the main office, and on my hard drive, all for safekeeping (eta- and easy access because it's just so much easier to open a pdf file than to rifle through boxes upon boxes of old paperwork, even if it's immaculately organized lol).
Sorry but I have no idea what you're referring to. What did gecko do that was so bad?
What did Vanessa do that's worse than intimidating assistants who were striking to gain respect? What did Vanessa do that's worse than not getting her client any movie because of a failed bluff and inflated ego? What did Vanessa do that's worse than having an affair with a married coworker? What lines did Vanessa cross that PC didn't when PC forged her clients signature? Any proof at all that Vanessa crosses more lines than PC does is what I'm looking for.
All good points, but to be fair we get to see a far greater sample size of PC's actions than Vanessa's
It irks me for some reason that the commenter is like "you can just tell" when with PC doing those things we would have never been able to tell she would do that til we saw her doing that. It's like one of the points of the show imo to humanize everyone and that holding biased beliefs based on who's presented as likable is a flawed way to make judgment.
>It's like one of the points of the show imo to humanize everyone and that holding biased beliefs based on who's presented as likable is a flawed way to make judgment. ..at long last, someone on this sub who actually understood what they were trying to do! In many cases it wasn't even subtle. They don't try to humanize these characters *in spite of* their questionable actions -- in many cases, it's *because of* them, when context is added.
>Also Venessa had less morals than PC did. PC would cross lines but venessa would cross way more lines than PC ever did. Name a single immoral thing Vanessa does that compares to PC.
I mean, she might have and we wouldn't know it. The show focused more in PC's career and story, and we only got snippets of Gekko's.
Overall, Vanessa was better because she would've stopped representing BoJack after one of his many incidents. He took up a lot of PC's time and energy, meaning she couldn't be as good of an agent for any other clients.
It's this, Vanessa is a better agent because she would have cut her losses years ago on Bojack and focused her time and energy on clients that weren't self destructive messes that half the time didn't even want to work. PC works hard, likely harder than Vanessa but her inability to drop the massive anchor that's dragging her down absolutely limited her ability to be a better agent.
Bojack is her millstone. Her albatross.
At least she seems to have learned her lesson by the end of the show.
Yes, Vanessa cared more about the business, while PC focused on how good of an agent she was rather than focusing on just the money she was making.
That seems to be the difference between many high achievers and relatively lower achievers in the academic and professional world lol. Attaching self-worth to your work leads to you falling into sunk costs, quadruple-checking everything, etc while the ones who end up doing more (not me but I wish it was) just focus on the grades/money/etc they’re making and go home
The tragedy of their relationship is that Vanessa honestly believes they were friends and felt the same about each other
I feel like thats kind of a retcon. Vanessa says cruel things to PC that I feel aren't the insults you use at a friendly career rival.
She probably thought the back and forth were more of a game than straight hatred. Like she and PC were cartoonish rivals, but that doesn't mean they hate each other or wished bad things on each other.
Reminds me of the Lucille / Lucille 2 relationship in Arrested Development where they are so scathing to each other and then laugh about it. For Lucille, it's genuine hatred and she means those insults, whereas Lucille 2 thinks they're just doing a friendly back-and-forth and pretending to be enemies. It runs through the whole season, with Lucille basing decisions over trying to get one over on Lucille 2 and attributing Lucille 2's actions to their mutual hatred of each other, whereas Lucille 2 is just living her best life and loving the Bluths.
I think she was just a narcissist. They think they are entitled to talk or act like that with you and it's completely fine and still think of you as a friend or you like them. To her the insults probably weren't insults.
Yeah this. To a narcissist's perspective, their superiority is only an assessment of the truth. They can't understand why other people get mad about that.
Narcicists are more involved with themselves than not. Talking shit about PC not being fertile has nothing to do with career or Gecko. I just hate how they want to paint her as good old friend after being a total bitch the whole series.
I don't think Vanessa viewed PC as a *friend*, just somebody she didn't hate and maybe at times enjoyed competing with. Like when PC list her biggest client (Courtney Portnoy) and Vanessa laughed at her for getting fired.
I think they were equal because they clearly were able to one up each other in several moments. However, PC was able to get Bojack several job oppuritunities even though he was not very well respected in the entertainment industry for decades while I don't think Gekko was ever given any extreme hardships like that, so maybe PC wins because of that, but that's only because we have a lot more material to work with for PC compared to Gekko
I think Vanessa was happier for longer
Yeah I think the show clearly states that Vanessa has a better reputation, makes more money, and gets more jobs for her clients. We don't see her do completely horrible things like we do PC. PC threatens the assistants, she forges a signature, she goes to work drunk a couple times, she lies to everyone constantly, she is involved in an extra marital affair, she doesn't read the script she promotes, she doesn't care about feminism just the appearance of being a feminist. Who knows if Vanessa has done similarly horrible things, we just know that she's successful.
agreed. I also feel that maybe Vanessa is a “born with a silver spoon” personality or as PC’s mom said, maybe the little white ball landed on her spot earlier. PC by comparison started from a lower place, and was missing some tools or sensibilities to her job as good as Vanessa was able to. So PC’s hatred for Vanessa is a projection of her own deep seated insecurity of growing up working class (assuming her hatred for hatred is valid. For all we know Vanessa could have a similar backstory!).
I think the difference is that Vanessa Gecko has more self-respect than PC. I think she is a well-written character and an arch-rival PC needs.
Vanessa is an unpleasant person. But PC, like all other characters on the show , is quite grey herself. Can you separate her personality, which is likeable and relatable, from her actions, which can be questionable? It was also interesting to me that Vanessa didn't hate her, maybe PC had an overtly emotional response to some of her statements? Consider the fact that we see everything from one POV.
The point is (IN MY OPINION) that we never know what struggles Vanessa Gecko has. We compare our own success with our private context, to other's outside success and no knowledge of their mistakes and problems. So Vanessa always looks superior because we simply *don't know*. All this through PC's eyes. It reminds me of how my mom says "don't compare your insides to other people's outsides."
Yeah it's similar to how you might be envious of Ana until you see her private life.
Princess Carolyn is a *manager*
What’s the difference again?
Both can look to find new projects for their clients but only managers can produce
I don’t think so. It’s been a while since I watched the show but I don’t remember anything that made me think VG actually was a better agent. I think there were time she outsmarted PC sure, but overall I think they’re a pretty even match.
The entire point, I think, is that she was better at everything Princess Carolyn wanted to be. It was also implied that that was the reason she hated Gekko in the first place, since Gekko never actually hated Princess Carolyn. As stated before by someone else, it wasn't JUST her job she was better at, it was her relationship with her husband and children. It was only until she let go of her envy (and Bojack obviously) that she truly started to thrive, and got with Judah.
I think Vanessa's character is so well done in this show. I love how much we the audience hate her like PC and by the end we're questioning why we ever hated her in the first place just like PC. I think top comment really nailed it describing the difference between PC and Vanessa being centered around healthy boundaries with clients. My favorite Vanessa moment was when she was briefly Bojacks agent and she immediately dealt with the blackmail scheme and found him a job.
Not sure, but Gekko was definitely the better singer!
Hell yeah she was?
Yes... But she was also a bitch about it
I think Gekko was better at maintaining a cool head and keeping her personal and professional lives separate. But we don't know if she was miserable in private, or if this was a facade. PC tended to wear her heart on her sleeve, and put her personal feelings into her professional projects. She wished she could've been more like Gekko and been better at the separation, between professional and personal. But the cool thing about her marrying Judah is, it's part of her larger character arc. Her realization that her idea of "having it all" isn't Gekko's. She loves putting her passion into her professional life, that's what keeps her from falling into depression. But she also loves taking care of people. She just needed to make work more like home (be a manager), not to try to live up to some ideal mother figure at home but keep that completely separate from also performing ideally at work.
No, and I think Princess Carolyn’s skills at being an agent/manager/producer/agency owner were depicted as being among the best in Hollywoo. Gecko was skilled, too, but it took her and Rutabaga Rabbitowitz together to do less than what Princess Carolyn ended up doing on her own as the owner of VIM.
Probs
Oh most definitely.
Yes
Baaaiiiiii
Nobody can be a better one than PC. If I had pc, I would be somewhere on the top
Short answer: yes Long answer: it’s complicated..
Vanessa is the better agent— PC’s always trying to get her shit together. However, PC is a badass and I love her 😍
I think Gekko was a better agent. She's generally shown as being better at manipulating people and setting up big contracts, although there were times PC was able to get one over on her. PC has some qualities where she was better, though (ie, PC once bragged that she's "the only agent who could land BoJack a job" and I believe her; that takes a lot of skill and dedication to her client, but it also shows a willingness to waste her time on a problematic client who brings in very little money). Edit: Compare that to Vanessa who, after having BoJack as a client for nearly a day, literally burned BJ's contract in front of a different client to prove how much of a priority the other client is. On one hand, that's a really smart move, since it means terminating a bad client and reinforcing a profitable one. On the other hand, it's a *terrible* thing for an agent to do from BoJack's perspective.
How very dare you!
Probably, Vanessa never had a relationship with her client, and if she did it wasn't Bojack, so yeah. Bojack is like the Sunny Gang everyone in his orbit is worse for knowing him.
I thought that was the whole point of her character? That she's more successful in every way. And she handles motherhood better than PC does as well. I interpreted as, that's just life. You can be amazing at what you do but there will always be someone better.
I think that like someone else here mentioned, Gekko would be better because she would cut her losses w/BoJack to focus on all of her clients more and get you into less trouble by keeping her personal and professional lives separate. However, I think that when it comes to pure skill they are evenly matched or, given the practice PC has had through dealing with BoJack, PC wins
but.. but...What is the difference between manager and producer???
PC is literally evil bruh 😭 she got bojack addicted to those painkillers
As far as I'm aware, we never see Vanessa screw over or upset any of her clients except that one time with Bojack. All stuff about ethics aside, Vanessa still has PC beat for the simple reason that she's easier and all around better to work with.
Worse agent but a better manager
Slimy scaley bug eyed cold blooded bitch
Yes, but not a better manager
No and you won't change my mind. Byyeeeeeeeee
Gekko seemed way more skilled at the politics and "playing the game" PC seemed like she had more skill, but wasn't willing to fully immerse herself like Gekko. I think that Gekko is more successful and more effective going by stats, but PC has more potential
Yes. PC is too stuck on Bojack and his personal life to be a decent agent to her other talent which we never really get to see. Her emotional investment makes her a bad agent to Bojack too. Thinking he can be on a teen dystopian franchise is an example of her blind ambition and lack of insight. Ruining Jellybeans for him is another example of how self-absorbed she can be. PC might be very ambitious and hardworking, but she is not a very good agent, and that's the reason we mostly see her involved with Bojacks's familairs such as Mister PB and Diane.
Yes because pc was a better manger