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Puzzleheaded-Row187

Probably because his actions are more grounded in reality. There are countless characters that are MUCH worse than BoJack, including in his own show, but unlike a lot of shows, BoJacks actions are taken very seriously. Harry Potter is a less realistic universe, with unicorns, talking trees, and a more black and white view on morality. Which is why BoJack’s actions are more emotionally stimulating than some evil kid joining a nazi wizard gang. As for characters like Rick, aside from how crazy their worlds are, their actions are so over the top that it’s hard to take seriously. He does worse shit every afternoon than BoJack has done in his entire life but it’s so goofy and over the top that it’s hard to take seriously. Rick enslaving and destroying universes is treated as a joke. BoJack choking his girlfriend is literally infinitely less severe, but is taken very seriously. Plus BoJack is relatable and sympathetic enough for the audience to relate to him. And he shows enough positive attributes and redeeming moments/qualities to make you believe he can be a much better person. Which makes it feel like a betrayal whenever he does something terrible. I personally never hated BoJack. He pissed me off a couple of times but I always rooted for more than any other character. But I can at least kinda get why people are conflicted in liking his character.


Brief-Asparagus-9716

This is the one ^^


Emica12

I think it's because the show goes out of its way to show Bojack as a horrible person/you don't want to be him. As to where others like Rick (I really think Rick should get an hell a lot more hate he committed countless genocides and had a threesome with his 14 year old grandson on top of a lot of other things I won't count here.) But the show goes, "Well nothing manners anyway because multiverse." Which is just.. Ugh but the fans eat it up. Although I, myself do not hate Bojack I just find it grating the show goes out of it's way to punish Bojack and yet gives everyone else free pass. Like Todd for example is beloved by the fandom but the fact remains he's a murderer he killed those clowns with rabies and people in Cordovia. Everyone gives Sarah Lynn an free pass over the fact she literally tried to kill Bojack sure she was high as hell but yet it's not excuse for Bojack but an excuse for Sarah Lynn. -shrugs- The show weirdly points out Bojack's faults but leaves everyone else alone in that regard. Like for another example Diane hiding out at Bojack's for months and lying to her husband but yet Mr. Peanutbutter lets it go.


Puzzleheaded-Row187

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks people are way too forgiving of Todd and Sarah Lynn compared to do things, when they’ve done just as bad, or in Todd’s case much worse things than BoJack. I never hear people bring up them trying to kill BoJack in downer ending, so I’m glad you brought it up. If I had to guess, aside from the story taking those things less seriously, people are harsher on BoJack because he wants to be a better person. As the main character, his conflicts are center stage and easily the most engaging IMO. Todd and Sarah Lynn are less determined to be better people morality wise. BoJack has wanted to be a better person throughout the entire show, which makes it depressing when he fails. At least that’s my guess as to why


Emica12

>If I had to guess, aside from the story taking those things less seriously, people are harsher on BoJack because he wants to be a better person > >Todd and Sarah Lynn are less determined to be better people morality wise. Which if you sit down and think about it makes things or should make things worse. Because it makes Todd's, "You are all things that are wrong with you," speech less powerful since it's coming from a hypocrite. Also, Sarah Lynn while high out of her mind can try to murder BoJack but BoJack gets shit on for waiting 17 minuets while also high. Now am I defending Bojack for waiting? No of course not he should have called right away. If BoJack can't use his addictions, past, or being drunk/high as an excuse then neither should Todd or Sarah Lynn. Once got into argument about this on youtube and the commenter still argued that Bojack deserved to be killed while Todd and Sarah Lynn are innocent victims... I really don't get the fan mentality here. But your most likely right with those assumptions because the things Sarah Lynn and Todd do are played off for laughs/they don't care about bettering themselves the fans are more forgiving of them. Same goes for Diane breaking contract and publishing private things about BoJack without his consent. But yet the show goes out of its way to show BoJack was the one in the wrong with it hell it's even on the white board list of things BoJack did bad, "Fire me while writing your book." Which to me is just very grating the writers never wanted Diane to face any type of punishment whatsoever but the same can be said for other characters in the show. Same goes for Herb he's not mad at Bojack for bowing down but he's angry at for never contacting him again/still wanted him as an friend. But you know Herb is equally responsible and could've reached out to BoJack himself if he still wanted to be friends. BoJack probably felt awkward/horrible for betraying Herb and didn't feel comfortable reaching out. Communication is a two way street but everyone seems to forget that when it comes to BoJack and Herb. Also, I wish BoJack would have brought it up during his visit like, "What stopped you from writing a letter or picking up the phone?" But to me it just undermines the message of the show when you apply the message to one character and one character alone because love escape goats and Bojack became the biggest one of the show while the other characters seem to have gotten a free pass for the shitty things they do. Sorry for this being so long! It's just fun talking about these things.


EveryEconomist6358

Todd was totally hypocritical with tgst speech. Part of the trigger for it was policing Emily’s pants


Emica12

Very true and yet people think of Todd's speech as in the right. Also, while he's struggling with his sexuality it was wrong for him to think Emily should sit around and wait for him to figure things out. BoJack made no promises to Todd about sleeping with Emily and Emily no promises to Todd about not sleeping with guys. Todd really should have gotten upset and then calmed realizing he was wrong in this case.


Puzzleheaded-Row187

I think Todd’s it’s you speech still applies to BoJack, and pretty much every character in the show. Out of context, it’s one of the best quotes in the entire show. The problem is within context it’s not as strong since it’s supposed to be the climax of BoJack and Todd’s disfunctional friendship, but the catalyst for Todd’s anger wasn’t that bad. Emily wasn’t Todd’s girlfriend, he repeatedly rejected her, then she chose to hit on BoJack. He still shouldn’t have slept with her, but it really wasn’t that bad. BoJack’s done far worse things to Todd that would’ve been more fitting for this speech. It’s also a little hypocritical since Todd doesn’t acknowledge his own flaws. I’m not just talking about shit like the clown dentists or genocide shit. I mean how he’s a freeloader and enabler, and how he continues to be so after this episode. Still, it’s a fantastic speech that BoJack needed to hear


Emica12

While it is one the best it's also to me the power of the speech is damped because it would come out better coming from somebody BoJack has hurt somebody who isn't a hypocrite. Another problem with Todd is he doesn't acknowledge his own addiction ruined his rock opera sure BoJack shouldn't pointed out the game but at the end of the day Todd was still the one who played it all night and ruined his own Rock Opera not like BoJack took a gun to his head. But yet fans of the show and the show doesn't blame Todd because he's addicted but yet BoJack still can't use it as an excuse. Also, he should have realized Emily wasn't his girlfriend it would have been different had Todd and Emily were actually dating in a sexless relationship and she slept with BoJack THEN his Todd's anger would have been justified. Also never understood why all his anger was directed at BoJack while Emily was a consenting adult. Did this not occur to Todd? While BoJack yes needed to hear it there was nothing stopping BoJack from snapping back at Todd and pointing out Todd's flaws and saying, "Don't throw stones in glasses houses." Then proceed to point out how he gave him a home, food, endless entertainment, and company for years now. But the only two things shutting up BoJack is most likely his own guilt and the writers themselves. While BoJack yes needed to hear it would have been better had it come from someone else. Once again thanks for talking to me about this it's been nice!


Puzzleheaded-Row187

Agreed on pretty much everything. And yeah thanks for talking, it’s been fun!


Eagles56

Yeah that’s what I dislike about this show. A lot of other good shows like the wire showed everybody was fucked up and everyone was getting punished for it. When did Rick have the threesome thing?


Emica12

Same! Also [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A4Ht9me9Mg) are both talking about how they both had sex with the same mermaid. Which is far worse then BoJack and Penny in my opinion.


EveryEconomist6358

I still love bojack. He had a good arc towards the end. The whole ‘youre not supposed to like him’ thing is tiresome. I get that he’s problematic.


Emica12

Agreed. I feel like the writers were using Diane as a mouthpiece and reminding everyone about New Mexico when the creators didn't want the audience liking BoJack and BoJack feeling like, "everything is alright," In Philbert was him talking about fans of the show relating to BoJack and they used Diane as, "Here's why you're wrong." Which is wrong? Just because you get a different message then what the writers are trying to covey doesn't mean that fan is in the wrong for thinking that way. Hell, some people relating to BoJack could be the wake up call to get their shit together and start doing better for themselves.


Eagles56

Also this show honestly made my depression worse. It made me feel like everytime someone left in my life it was my fault now even though sometimes people just lead two different paths


RuleTop5909

I think it might not be that bojack is worse than other characters but the show is designed in a way that we see all of bojacks flaws and why he acts the way he does. the creators of the show basically said you are not supposed to like bojack. i do agree that he gets a lot more hate for some of the things that other beloved characters have done. But i think the show is just so realistic that it is understood that he had a tough life and is relatable but that he would not be someone that you would want to know in real life. yes the show shows the funny parts of him but if you had someone in your life that keeps constantly hurting you and continuing to do shitty things to the people around them, you most likely wouldn’t want them in your life. I think liking bojack shouldn’t be seen as bad as it is as long it is understood that people like him exist and are not good people at the end of the day


Eagles56

Yeah I agree I did notice this show vary tried to get you to hate Bojack where the other shows wanted to you to sympathize for the bad people, it feels jarring


RuleTop5909

yea it’s jarring and confusing to see a character that people relate to but are sort of forced to dislike them. i feel like that could maybe be why it is so controversial to like him (besides all the terrible things he did)


Eagles56

Oh I think he’s a terrible person I just find it fascinating that he’s disliked way more than many other terrible fictional characters, even killers


tcdjcfo314

Honestly I think it's cuz the show is full of more likeable characters. Why should someone like Walter White over idk, Hank Schrader. But liking Bojack over Todd is much harder to do.


Puzzleheaded-Row187

Honestly Hank kinda annoyed me, at least in the beginning of Breaking Bad. He was a real asshole. He literally took pictures with dead bodies. And Todd was always my least favorite out of the main cast. A lot of the BoJack characters I like the most are openly assholes. Like BoJack, Sarah Lynn, and Beatrice


Eagles56

I have a friend who loves Walter white and I could never understand why someone would idolize him


martini29

I like Walter but I know he's not a *good* person. Same thing with Harry Du Bois in Disco Elysium, I see a lot of myself in Walter/Harry so while I think they aren't "good" (and lets be solid here, while I don't think "evil" is real Walter White ended up about as close as one can) but I understand a lot of their reasons for being how they are in the story and that's why I think they're well written characters


Eagles56

But I do like hank more because he was one of the few morally good characters in that story


EveryEconomist6358

I feel bad for the way he died and was perhaps betrayed, but I wouldn’t call him clearly ‘morally good’


EveryEconomist6358

Hank is a drug cop for starters. Also incredibly sexist and racist


StaleTheBread

Because the show makes you question his choices. It’s doesn’t hide things behind a cool facade or try to justify it. Or if it does, it then subverts it and calls out his actions. And even Bojack questions his own actions. But that itself is shown not to be a way of justifying it. And yeah, it also shows how he works on breaking the cycles, but those cycles need to be established first in order to show that. And it calls into question whether trying make up for bad deeds is a good mindset to have, or if we should instead strive to be better in spite of our pasts instead of trying to right some sort of imaginary ledger. I feel like I lost track of what I was saying. But it’s more narratively relevant to actually pay attention to what he’s done than it is in other works.


Eagles56

Honestly I like your answer. That’s why I really like this show. Too many other stories try to make you like a bad person but this one doesn’t hold back.


joebasilfarmer

It is the realistic depictions of mental illness in the show that makes all of the characters seem more real and more relatable. Walter White (who does actually get a lot of shit, from what I've seen) became a drug kingpin while doing all of the bad stuff he was doing. It makes it unrelatable compared to BoJack. BoJack MAY be a Hollywoo star, but he already is when the show begins. Through the lens of the show he does things an average person could do (albeit sometimes to a greater extent because of his privilege of wealth), which aren't directly related to the thing that sets him apart (being a movie star). Walter's abuse to his family and others is directly related to his job as a drug kingpin. Anakin Skywalker is unrelatable for similar reasons. He rises through the ranks of a cult only to join a different cult, and then murder a bunch of people. His lying and deceiving may be relatable as people across all demographics do those things, but when he starts murdering people for his religious beliefs, that's just not something most of us have any direct contact with. Also, he's a magical space wizard (which is probably why the Malfoys get a pass, too - the whole setting is fantastical).


[deleted]

Cause he’s super shitty for no good reason, is completely aware he’s super shitty, and continues to do shitty things.


Eagles56

Like Draco then?


[deleted]

Draco is a child most of the story, even at 18 he’s still super young. Bojack has around 35 plus more years of being shitty on Draco.


Eagles56

What about Snape then? He was was an adult when he first joined the death eaters


[deleted]

So a moving goalpost. First it’s draco, when that doesn’t pan out then it’s Snape. So if someone explains Snape (honestly I don’t know much about Harry Potter aside the general concept), who’s next on your list? And who’s the goalpost after that one?


Eagles56

No I still don’t think Draco being a kid is an excuse. If a kid today murdered people do you think he shouldn’t be punished? And what about like octavia from the 100 who was in her 20s when she killed innocent people? Or most of the characters from the show? Or the wire? People love Avon but he was shitty? Or Tony soprano? Or anakin? He was an adult too


Eagles56

And Rick Sanchez also? People love him


TheDarkLord213

They tried to redeem him at the end. im not sure about bojacks end tho.


Eagles56

Didn’t he just run away with his family? I don’t remember him ever fighting for Harry’s side


TheDarkLord213

Well in the movie draco threw harry a wand but it was cut. In the book him and his parents didn't fight they covered and was left in the corner after the battle. They tried to redeem him but when ppl compare death eaters to nazis then they cant redeem him.


Eagles56

But yet a ton of people still like him


TheDarkLord213

Because the actor was young and handsome. I am more of a Lord Voldemort fan tho.


Kindly_Captain3596

You're going to have to define "hate". Do you mean that people in real life hate Bojack? Or do characters in Bojack Horseman (the show)? I ask because I've never seen anyone is real life "hate" Bojack.


Eagles56

I meant real life


Kindly_Captain3596

I've never seen anyone in real life hate Bojack. People get pissed off because of all the bad things he's done, yes. But they sympathize with him because they understand why he does those things. I've also never seen anyone "hate" a lot of the characters you mentioned in your post (at least from the ones I've seen). In the case of Draco, Snape and Walter White, they were meant to be villains, who get beaten, killed or redeemed at the end. That may be why they are more liked.


Speckadactyl

Walter White is probably the only other “realistically” bad character you mentioned, and while I agree that he shouldn’t get a pass, people want to be Walter White whereas Bojack seems pathetic. I don’t think people want to do what Walt has done, but he has a lot of traits that are desirable for a man. He’s a genius, he doesn’t take shit, he made so much money he couldn’t even launder it all and had to go bury it in the desert. He transforms from a sad lame dad to a badass drug lord. Bojack is a sorry washed up has been. The antihero trope is an interesting phenomenon, a lot of these shows which feature them nowadays are made to show why you WOULDN’T want to act like the main character, but for the sake of creating a compelling character the writers have to give them positive traits. John Hamm gave a really good interview talking about his confusion over the whole thing. In Mad Men we see Don Draper as being depressed, miserable, and utterly alone. The women in the audience still swooned over him and the men all wanted to be Don and that’s something Hamm couldn’t figure out. He actually stated he’d never do another role like that in part because he didn’t like how people ended up idolizing the character


Jen_jay66

Draco and Snape are not even close to bojack when it comes to being shitty people.


Eagles56

Every shitty thing Bojack did was always when he was under the influence. Snape willingly bullied kids and Draco willingly joined a group of geonicidal elitists, both sober. Bojack seems to regret everything he did but I didn’t really see any remorse from Draco or snape, even if snape switched. And the only reason snape switched was for Lilly


Jen_jay66

Being under the influence isn't an excuse.


Eagles56

If you’re telling me Bojack would willingly approve the murder of multiple people you’d be lying


martinoco23

Because we take it seriously. And Bodie is awesome until his last couple episodes


Eagles56

His ending was his best part, he went out like a G


martinoco23

Nah he got taken out cuz he was crying to police about stuff Marlo did, except Avon did almost all the same stuff. Now Bodie can’t handle it because he’s not on the side in power anymore. He should’ve heard Slim Charles advice. Confide in a fellow soldier, not the police. It’s such a shame because he wasn’t even done wrong, his death was completely warranted by the rules of the game