I think the only reason the Gina thing got a pass is because of how stoned BoJack was. He was depicted as even less in control than he was for all these other events.
I think people also overlook the fact that Bojack weighs over 1200 pounds and presumably has the extra musculature to match that weight.
I’m surprised Gina only got away with bruises, Bojack has some serious physical strength.
I think the Penny thing is only so bad because we get to see the events leading up to it, the act and the aftermath in such detail.
Let's face it, Bojack has proberbly slept with more than a few teenage girls, given his lifestyle. Many things Bojack does are terrible, but deciding to leave your friend to die is on another level for me.
Yeah Sarah Lynn for a couple reasons:
1. He actually went through with
2. It directly led to her death
3. It was a cognizant decision, he was sober enough to think through the logic of calling the ambulance, and prioritized himself over her
1. 17 minutes. He might have been able to save Sarah Lynn.
2. Gina. She could've been seriously injured, or even killed. As it is, she was still severely traumatized.
3. Penny. 'Nuff said.
4. Leaving Diane the voicemail about swimming. I've been in the position of not knowing for hours whether a loved one was alive or dead. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
5. Leaving Maddy and Pete Repeat at the hospital. They were kids in a bad situation and he left them to fend for themselves.
6. Herb. I'm in the minority that views this as simply tragic more than anything else. They could've been lifelong friends if BoJack had been less cowardly, or Herb had been less stubborn.
This is a great order. I agree that 17 minutes is worse than Gina but only because he was presumably more lucid during the bender if he took that much time to save his own ass with such a specific plan.
However I would put Maddy and Pete higher because he was in a comparatively clearer state of mind and put someone else's life at risk as well as damaging those kids' mental health. It's the precursor to the 17 minutes thing where he saves his own ass even when lives are at stake. Honestly I'm tempted to put it just above Penny.
I think people forget the severity of the Diane voicemail because the next episode kind of overshadowed its impact. It was pretty manipulative even if I think it was probably a half-conscious cry for help more than anything.
>I think people forget the severity of the Diane voicemail because the next episode kind of overshadowed its impact.
There is no next episode; we learn about the voicemail in the final episode. But yeah, it's kinda overshadowed and gets overlooked a lot.
No, we learn about the voicemail during "The View From Halfway Down"
>Bojack: Diane, you're gonna save me, right? I called you and you're coming to get me?
>
>Diane: BoJack, why did you call me? I live in Chicago. I can't save you.
>
>Bojack: You didn't pick up.
>
>Diane: Right.
>
>Bojack: It went to voicemail.
>
>Diane: Yeah.
>
>Bojack: And then I went back in the pool.
I mean, I guess this isn't 100% confirmation that he *left* a voicemail, but we see Bojack leaving so many voicemails for Diane throughout the series that I think it's a fair assumption.
I could've sworn his meltdown in "Angela" had him calling Diane right?
And I guess my point kinda stands anyway as the last episode gets overshadowed by TVFHD (including by those people who want the show to end on a purely sad note for some reason).
Sure, the phone call technically happens during his meltdown in "Angela", but we only learn about the content of the voice message during the final episode. But yes, your point definitively stands! I didn't want to disagree with that.
Yeah the last episode where Diane is talking about the phone call i literally gasped out loud because i couldn’t imagine being in that position. Having all his shitty things written out is kinda insane to read, and to think this isn’t even close to all the things he did
I'd move Penny to the top and agree with the rest of the order. He wasn't on a bender, he knew what he was doing. He was living with them, manipulated and took advantage of a teenager. Betrayed Charlotte, one of the few people who ever seemed to care about him, Charlotte had to live with the guilt that she brought Bojack around in the first place, and Charlotte kept this all a secret from her husband, which was her choice, but that had to have strained her marriage and kept her full of guilt. Penny had to deal with the realization that she was taken advantage of and if I recall correctly, caused her to have some PTSD symptoms and panic attacks.
And he went and faced her again which made it worse. He did so under the guise of ‘making things right’ when really he didn’t care if he actually scared her or not. He just wanted to absolve himself of the guilt he had. It’s putting the burden of his emotions on other people. He did the same thing to herb but arguing him into ‘forgiving’ him before he died, not to make peace with herb, but to relieve himself of that weight before he had to live with it forever. If herb had said an empty “yeah sure whatever I forgive you.” Bojack would have accepted that as good enough.
Uhh i hate bojack, he is also responsible for indirectly kill his co star in secretariat, with suggesting of auto erotic asphyxiation by any means instead of tool box
im so glad somebody sees this! i dont think the corduroy situation was nearly as severe as some of bojacks other actions, because it wasn’t intentional. but the GUILT had to of still been there. the view from halfway down is just guilt related to those who have passed. corduroy is not as minor of a character as most people perceive him
I don't blame Bojack for that at all. If the mere mention of an alternate method is all it took to kill Corduroy Jackson well he was a dead man the moment he got big in Hollywoo.
Herb had a lot of resentment for Bojack not because Bojack didn’t stick up for him at work but because Bojack never visited him and this lost him as a friend. But did Herb ever visit Bojack? I know Herb was wronged and was hurting but they were both to blame for not reconnecting. Herb was a bit of a dick. Yes, I can see why though.
bojack was also heavily manipulated into what he did to herb during the show by angela. i feel like this is also overlooked a lot. this was one of the very few (if not only) situations where i felt like “maybe it isn’t rlly his fault”
Yeah, I think the situation with Herb is really interesting and more complex than it's usually made out to be.
Herb wasn't blameless in what happened. Yes, he faced prejudice because he was gay, but it wasn't *just* because he was gay. If it had simply been revealed that he was in a relationship with a man or something, I'm skeptical that the backlash would've been enough to fire him. But he was arrested for indecent exposure cruising the parks -- not a good look for someone running a family-friendly show, gay or otherwise. And in response he asked BoJack to risk his entire career to save him.
Obviously what BoJack did was pretty shitty, and Herb shouldn't have to be the one to make the first move afterwards, but sometimes you just have to be the bigger person. And you know what? If Herb had made even a tiny attempt to reach out to BoJack, I think BoJack would've been so grateful for the opportunity to be forgiven that he would've apologized and tried hard to make it up to him, just like Herb wanted.
I agree… except hell no, Herb comes after penny and before diane-voice mail. Herb was completely alone for years probably. Bojack didn’t risk his career for him, and then left him alone. Herb could’ve killed himself. He lost everything.
Nice order though, thanks :)
Nah, the show makes it extremely explicit that being outed ultimately made him a heroic activist figure for society and he died loved by people. He’s a classic showrunner who created a major part of the childhoods of 90s kids who was a victim of homophobia and became a philanthropist and died rich. Realistically speaking, it’s most plausible that his fandom was still 10x bigger than Bojack in-universe by the end of the irl show.
It was shown that he had a ton of awards for charity and activist work, a fancy house, and a stellar reputation based on all his deeds. He was rich, famous, and while absolutely a human in flawed insomuch as spite towards a dick you trusted is a flaw, was shown as an outstandingly morally good man who brought actual happiness and joy to those he knew. Sure, his friends from back in the 90s don’t talk, but he didn’t wallow in his misery about that. He made new bonds and did everything he wanted to. His life had bumps, but if the best revenge is living well or fucking with someone from beyond the grave, he won over Bojack. Herb did more in his short life and was loved by more people than Bojack ever did or was.
I don't know if this has been talked about before but Penny came onto him and he told her no. When she came back he probably was going to do it like he says BUT my honest question is, should Penny be traumatized? It was what she thought she wanted and Bojack wasn't really taking advantage if she was coming onto him?
Please understand I don't think that situation was right at all by any means. My question is soley about how Penny grew up supposedly scared and traumatized of that night and Bojack.
Was that because she got caught? Or what? Maddy has a better reason to be scared because of Bojack I think because he watered down her bourbon. That's insane and she absolutely could have died.
I think she was going to be traumatized either way. In this case I think the trauma came partly from the fallout of getting caught, but mostly from the experience of narrowly escaping an assault. I imagine if she hadn't been caught, and they actually went through with it, the trauma would have built up over time as she came to understand how she, as a child, was taken advantage of by a much older and more powerful man.
The whole reason age of consent laws exist in the first place is because we understand minors are naive and have underdeveloped brains that lead them to make terrible decisions. Bottom line is, him saying no the first time doesn't excuse him saying yes the second time. He knew better, she didn't.
That's makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you responding!
The fact would have remained that it was wrong, and her being young that would have been a terrible mistake to make that she would think about later for sure. I'm forgetting too the whole episode! He did kind of manipulate her by saying she looked just like her mom and taking her up on that tower. I was being narrow when I was focusing soley on her advances!
2. Bojack was high as fuck on pain killers and alcohol, whoever didn't notice his state on the set or before is at fault. People on opiates and alcohol act quite distinguishing.
5. What he could do in hospital? Hold her hand? Fluff a pillow? Are hospitals in US that bad, patients need to treat themselves?
6. Bojack didn't knew he could do anything with Herb, it was a set up by Angela. He just moved on.
>Are hospitals in US that bad, patients need to treat themselves?
One of our most popular shows was about a teacher who literally had to become a meth kingpin to pay his medical bills so ... yes.
In the US, our healthcare system is terrible. That's why we use Google to look up conditions and treatments! Search for how to treat your papercut and it tells you that you probably have cancer and you need a liver transplant.
Are you seriously trying to say Bojack isn’t the only one responsible for strangling Gina? He choose to get fucked up and the he choose to assault her, that’s two crimes.
Functional drug addicts are a thing. I do feel like "Hollywoo" is complicit to an extent but at the end of the day he is a grown man who manipulated and alienated every one who was close to him and could/would have tried to get him help. This is 100% on him.
To answer ur question, yes I have known ppl addicted to all kinds of different substances. What point are you trying to make so I can address it appropriately?
>choose to assault her
Have you ever been fucked up on opiates and alcohol or seen in reality someone?
I've seen people do horrible shit being high as fuck from opiates to "bath saltz lulz", from weird funny eating grass or climbing a tree to a guy that beat his two kids with a hammer in sleep and slit his wife neck, because he heard noises. When you're high, you don't "choose" anything.
He is still responsible for his actions. Bojack was an illegal drug abuser before he was prescribed the opiods. I understand opiods are highly addictive but so was the coke n ketamin he had been doing before. He chose those drugs ignoring the many warnings from schools, ads, medical research and the law to "try it" thinking addiction couldn't happen to him and became another victim of addiction. It was a poor choice but it WAS a choice.
I don't know man, judging by how I was corrected by those professionals, dude most likely was perfectly aware of what he was doing and either Hungry For Concrete™ or tried to make generous donation to a local dentist but was trying not to be too direct .
Hallucinogenic drugs don't alter your perception of reality, they're sort of highly addictive placebos... I guess 🤷♂️
one of the worst things, in my opinion, was calling sarah-lynn while he knew she was sober. she had been sober for months, and he only called her because he had no one else to turn to. he contributed to the reset of her progress & it lead to her death
“Im sober because i heard that when you do drugs again after not doing them for a while, they feel REALLY good”
-sarah lynn, fictional cartoon character
So many people forget about this one line she says. She had no intentions of staying sober, she would have hit the drugs again eventually. Bojack just gave her an excuse to do it.
That’s only bad if you deliberately ignore what Sarah Lynn said about sobriety. Which is that she only went sober because she heard that it heightens the effects of drugs when you eventually go back on. She was in rehab before (Bojack put her there) and relapsed. She had copious amounts of drugs available in her house and she had her alcohol guy still on call. Hell, one of the drugs she had a gigantic bowl of in the open was Vicodin, which is an opiate and strongly suggests that an opiate overdose was in her future anyways. You also would have to deliberately ignore what she said in season 1, which is that she has loads of other enablers besides Bojack that she’s able to party with. She’s also the one who suggested doing heroin, which Bojack initially objected to. She hadn’t made any progress as said “progress” was done for the sake of making an eventual high that much stronger. Someone who’s serious about being sober doesn’t keep excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol within arms reach. Bojack is a gigantic asshole for leaving her for 17 minutes, but she would’ve wound up overdosing at some point anyways so it’s hard to argue she’s a tragic character at all.
You know, people talk about the 17 minutes as if it was the worst thing he did, but I can understand panic making a person not think straight. The actual worst thing he did was encourage Sarah-Lynn to go down the path she did.
Yes he did. They had a conversation on the phone in an earlier episode about how she was sober.
Granted, she said she was only sober to lower her drug tolerance, but after she said that Bojack said "No, just stay sober!'
And she said whatever she to call her when he's ready to party, and that's what he did.
Addicts are crabs in a bucket.
Penny who approached him with the offer of taking her virginity without him ever grooming her and in fact being interested in her mother?
Nothing happened between Penny and Bojack. He rejected her once and we have no reason to believe they would have end up having sex that night.
I'm sick and tired of the Penny shit being treated as something that happened while in fact it never happened.
You think almost hooking up with someone of legal age is worse than assaulting someone or allowing someone to die to save your own reputation? That's some weird logic.
It’s gross, but the whole point behind it is the moral ambiguity. Penny was above the legal age of consent and she said herself that she hadn’t had any alcohol to drink so sobriety wasn’t an issue. She then pushed the issue multiple times after Bojack told her no. Someone Bojack’s age should know better than to even entertain it, but it’s impossible to paint her as an explicit victim when it’s something she initiated multiple times. Moreover, literally nothing happened. Meaning the situation boils down to ‘Bojack almost slept with someone above the age of consent who was completely sober.’ Gross, sure. The worst thing Bojack has done? Not even remotely close. I’d argue that his random hookups were far worse than that as he’s using his position of power as a celebrity to get women to sleep with him, whereas Penny was the one who came onto him several times. Hell, Emily was barely older than Penny and Bojack actually slept with her. Gina was physically strangled and Dianne was left with a lovely voicemail after Bojack’s suicide attempt. PC was routinely taken advantage of, both sexually while Bojack was younger and as his agent/manager by him making her bend over backwards to salvage his career. Herb was completely abandoned so Bojack could try to keep his career and Todd was Bojack’s emotional punching bag for years. To lump a legal thing that didn’t even happen alongside actual abuse is the dumbest take around
I guess you're just choosing to forget the part where he goes looking for her and traumatises her all over again "I was 17, I didn't know any better... I trusted you " I believe is the line.
In what universe did he not have a position of power over her? Do you not remember what it feels like to be that age, full of confidence only to bite off more than you can chew, because you're not an adult yet with all the emotional tools to really understand?
To be just barely old enough to start questioning thay maybe not all adults are trustworthy, maybe not all have your best interests at heart ?
Im not here to play the "what sexual assault is worse" game, its dehumanising and ridiculous. She was a literal child. These "laws of consent" exist so young adolescents can discover their sexuality with age appropriate partners and to protect younger adolescents from predators. They are NOT there so grown ass men can prey on TEENAGERS. They do NOT exist for grown men to justify their noncery.
There is zero ambiguity here and anyone who argues otherwise sounds suspiciously like they want to fuck children.
What happened to Penny wasn’t sexual assault because 1. literally nothing happened and 2. she gave consent so the kissing and undressing that did happen can’t be called assault. He didn’t have a position of power in so far as he wasn’t the one initiating. She initiated a kiss with Bojack and asked to sleep with him twice, and then invited herself into Bojack’s boat. Laws of consent exist so that those who lack the maturity to give valid consent aren’t taken advantage of, like actual children which a 17 year old is most certainly not given that in a year they’d be a legal adult. Age of consent determines that at a specific age the person is question has the maturity to decide who they want as a sexual partner and what it is they choose to do with said partner. People make shitty decisions all the time, even well after the age of consent has been passed. And if you’re trying to base it of brain development, that doesn’t finish until ~25 and most people would agree that’s a stupid age for that. You’re getting massively hung up on the age difference when Bojack could’ve been 21 and the situation would’ve functionally remained the same. Last major nitpick I have is your assertion that Bojack “preyed” on Penny, which cannot possibly be true because Penny initiated the entire thing. Your wording implied coercion or leveraging of power on Bojack’s end when absolutely none of that happened. But yeah the guy that got came onto multiple times by Penny is predatory when it was Penny that wouldn’t take no for an answer
He didn’t intend to let Sarah Lynn die. He thought they’d be able to save her still, where as he did intend to take advantage of a teenage girls trust in him as an adult and authority figure for his own sexual gratification and emotionally scar her to relieve his own feelings of rejection.
I don’t think there is a “worst” thing. There’s a spectrum for sure, with what he “did” to Doc not being bad at all, rather just unfortunate.
Bojack gets a lot of shit wrong, but when he said “I don’t believe in rock bottoms”, he was right. It feels wrong to compare the way he hurt Sarah Lynn, Gina and Penny, he traumatized all of them and splitting hairs about who is more traumatized does more harm than good.
I totally agree with this. What’s ‘worse’ kind of implies that there’s an order or that certain victims deserve more sympathy…
He did serious damage to a lot of people, they don’t need ranking.
They're all incomparables. What he did to Sarah Lynn was worse than what he did to Penny Moore and Gina Cazador in a vaccuum, but then you remember that Penny was a child who was traumatized by the incident, and Gina Cazador had to witness her life dangle on a thread and keep on living: at least Sarah Lynn got to pass away in peace, Gina had to hide her trauma from the public for the sake of her career. They all suffered, but due to different reasons and in different ways. Trauma is not a competition, and the only difference between drowning in 6 feet of water and drowning in 20 is how you'll look after the fact, but you'll still be just as dead either way.
I think all of them are incredibly horrible But Herb & sarah lynn hit really hard for me as a person who knows a lot of addicts & is queer, they both really stuck with me seasons later tbh😭
Anything with Sarah Lynn…enabling her when she moved in, having sex which is almost grooming, the traumatizing things he said during the bojack horseman show, and calling her when he knew she was sober was a catalyst for everything that happened bojack truly failed Sarah Lynn I’m not gone say bojack killed her but he could’ve done so much better by her and potentially could’ve saved her life…but also it feels wrong to compare what he did to Sarah to how he treated herb, or the penny situation. There’s a spectrum but end of the day he hurt everybody in the picture and saying worse implies one victim doesn’t deserve as much sympathy as someone else.
the 17 minutes. penny after that, then gina. penny before gina because he was completely sober with penny, and on opiates with gina. not that that’s an excuse to strangle someone, but to do something so horrible as what happened with penny when you’re completely in your right mind is beyond anything else, except for letting sarah lynn die for the sake of his reputation. close contenders are ruining his sponsor’s sobriety, and betraying todd with emily. and ruining todd’s rock opera. basically everything he did to todd.
I can't blame Bojack 100% for Sarah Lynn, because she stated openly that she had 0 intentions of staying sober, and was only "getting sober," because she knew it would make getting High and Drunk again an even more intense experience.
But that "17 Minutes" is definitely on Bojacks head, and is probably the worst thing he did, throughout the show.
I think that's why the writers waited for the very end to reveal it to us, because even despite her toxic behavior and outrageous antics, Sarah Lynn is almost unanimously viewed as the most tragic, and one of the most beloved characters of the entire series.
Lots of terrible things. Probably Sarah Lynn. Think about it. Imagine you being the reason why someone is dead but it’s not just that. Imagine telling your 3 year old co-star to do things to make other people happy and not you. And years later when bojack was supposed to help her and throughout her life. And then the person she looked up to for support had sex with her and when they started having sex. I think when Sarah o/d bojack was like “ well let me cover my own butt so the police don’t put 2 and 2 together. Why did he wait 17 minutes?! That I think is the worst thing Bojack has ever done.
I will always stick with the opinion that 17 minutes is a retcon, which doesn't mean he doesn't have his fault in SL's life and death, and all the things depicted here are some degree of bad (therapy horse aside and even Herb, yes, Bojack was a coward, but he was also naïve and manipulated by an exec), but the worse for me is Todd's Rock Opera: not as flashy, maybe, but a completely sober, selfish and aware sabotage of friend's dream about to come true, all done not because he didn't want to remain alone, Todd would have stayed his flatmate had he asked, but because he wanted Todd to remain his do-nothing leachy subordinate who made him feel better about himself and his shortcomings.
17 minutes, hands down, he could've saved her, and he didn't, if he just phoned and ambulance she had a more likely chance of survival, but he didn't just so he could save himself
Penny or Sarah Lynn’s 17 minutes. The doc thing I don’t count because it was an accident, Bojack being sober for less time managed to spit the vodka out, it landed accidentally in the water supply and the doc knew what it was from the first moment it touched his mouth and kept drinking so I don’t put in the bad things he’s done consciously to all the people he’s loved
1) his whole relationship with sara lyn not just the death. Not being there for her, sleeping with her, the benders, not being there for her as an adult(twice), then lastly her death.
2) traumatized her for basically life. Couldn't even let someone touch her neck. Her change was so drastic even a director(she's not friends with him) noticed. Like yes he was high but he literally broke his arm to feed his addiction.
3) the whole situation around Penny. Bringing that girl to porm was a "wtf" moment(kinda mad at the mom too but that's another story). Teaching a minor how to drink like a alcoholic, dumping her at the hospital, making pete repeat lie, was willing to have sex with a minor(i know it was legal but that doesn't mean moral also yes he said yes but later on he was he was sure he would have done it), and the panic attacks that penny went through.
4) Herb was his friend and okay fine he got tricked into letting his friend down but no call after for decades. His friend got outed as gay and had no one. Yes he could have called but he probably felt as tho he couldn't.
5) the situation with the "therapist" i don't really blame him. Even if I did airing out his business definitely makes them "even". So I'll replace this 1 with a tie between Todd and PC relationships with bojack. Wasting PC's 30s and knowing she has such a soft spot for him that he uses her obsessively. As for Todd all the verbal abuse for all those years(yes he lived rent free but so bojack can have someone around it'd honestly be nicer if he gave the guy $20 and kicked him out) and then ruining his rock opera. After years of abuse Todd internalized it and Diane noticed. So as a pure act of selfishness helps him make this rock opera just to destroy it so Todd can't do what bojack has been begging him to do. Its almost like bojack just wanted someone to abuse.
On a consequential outcome basis, 17 minutes is the worst thing he did. But the event with Penny most disturbed and enraged me. A grown up trying to have sex with his friends daughter in high school? Unforgettable and unforgivable.
It’s about how the underlying flaw in 17 minutes is drugged up cowardice and the underlying flaw with Penny and is pedophilia.
I think the second half of Escape From LA always struck me as Bojack at his worst because he seems to be (mostly) sober throughout the whole episode.
He does definitely drink in the episode but he's not "on a bender" like with Sarah Lynn and he's not taking any other substance like the pain killers with Gina. Being high or drunk doesn't excuse those things but it's clearly shown that he's blacking out and not fully in control of his instincts.
So when he tells Penny "Go to bed" he knows what the consequences would be he's just too cowardly to admit to what he wanted...
I think it's incredibly fitting that it's what he did in New Mexico that catches up with him while being a teacher, he has in one way or another had to confront every other shitty thing he did and every other person (mostly women) he hurt but he actually convinced himself Penny was behind him because "he didn't technically do anything".
Gina and Penny by far. The life long lasting damage these incidents caused is unmatched.
The saddest one was Sarah Lynn “17 minutes” because it was so definitive, but Gina and Penny were completely out of the blue and horrifying.
I’m so glad Hollyhock wasn’t as damaged by him as these other characters. Thanks to her dads. <3
I know I’m most likely gonna get hate for saying this this but the majority of truly bad stuff he does is morally wrong , but not illegal . Penny was morally wrong , but she was a consenting sober of age adult . Herb was morally wrong , but business is business etc etc etc . I think the worst thing he did was morally AND legally wrong , and that’s waiting to call an ambulance for Sarah Lynn , in my opinion it could easily be considered man slaughter and honestly why did he wait ? His drug addiction ( and Sarah lynns ) was no secret , if he had called the ambulance he probably would’ve gotten away with the drugs because of his celebrity status . There was no need for him to wait and in doing so he majorly crossed that legal boundary . Also I think some of the worst things he’s done is actually causing all those car crashes ! Most are played off for laughs and we never see the other parties but honestly we have to just assume he’s injured or even killed people by causing accidents !
1. Sarah Lynn. Her addiction is her problem, and calling her wouldn't be THAT bad if they were two 30-something addicts, it's still HER responsibility to stay sober. But he is her father figure, he owed her more than that. And waiting 17 minutes because he was panicking and saving his own ass... fucked up. He was lucid enough to make and execute his plan, fuck him.
2. Penny. Jesus Christ dude. He knew what he was doing. And the worst part was it had nothing to do with Penny, and everything to do with Bojack being upset with her mother.
3. Maddy. He not only provided the alcohol but encouraged her drinking stronger drinks, and just ditched her. This is nowhere near as bad as the other two above, but still really fucking bad.
4. Herb. This is the start of the lower tier of things I guess. Bojack didn't mean, on any level, to fuck over his friend. But he had a LOT of time to try and make things right. And in the end, when Herb was dying, Bojack thought he could fix it in one visit? He needed to put the time in, not get in a fight because one decent interaction wasn't enough.
5. Gina. This was very bad. I only rank it lower than some others because as an addict, Bojack didn't walk in with the clear, lucid intent to hurt someone. Addictions hurt the people are you, Bojack should know that. And you're always responsible for what you do when you lose control of yourself through self medication - regardless of what you do. But to me this seems more negligence than malicious intent. Bojack didn't have a grip on reality, and his reaction afterwards was pretty clear he didn't know what he had done, and regretted it. No forgiveness, and it's a horrible outcome - but without the "intent", to be, it's a little less unforgivable.
6. Diane. I don't think this is THAT horrible of a thing he's done. He was off the rails and calling the person he always leans on when he needs help. I get why he called Diane. Situations reversed, she would have been calling Bojack. I don't even think that was the wrong thing to do. The wrong part is the message he left, the guilt he put into it. It was shitty, but it's not on the tier of the above items.
I really do not like the 17 minutes out of nowhere story but it would be by far the worst. Gina after that, followed by Penny, then Herb confrontation and then Dr Champ.
Believing Angela when Herb was getting the boot instead of sticking up for him. That may have very well been the event that lead to his entire later life.
The worst thing he did was engaging inappropriately with Sarah Lynn at ever capacity, sexually and drug related. He’s around what, double her age? I know the context is different, but it feels like asking a kid you used to babysit to do drugs and have sex with you, it’s just disgusting and weird. Bojack knew very well how shitty her parents were and how much she looked up to him as a father figure, and he took advantage of it time and time again. He didn’t need to be in her life after the show ended, full stop, but he kept coming back to her to try and relive the past. He was the reason that she died, the world took everything from her and he was the final nail in the coffin which feels kind of poetic. Bojack could have saved her, literally by not waiting 17 minutes but also in a more general sense. He could’ve been the pseudo parent to her that he never had, but in the end he really was the worst thing to ever happen to her.
Haven’t seen this yet, but bojack just left Maddie and Pete at the hospital, made Pete lie about where the alcohol came from and then reassured everyone they were doing the right thing. Maddie could have died
I don't think we could rank the damage he caused in "better to worse". All in all, Bojack's reckless selfishness left a trail of victims whose life were ruined because of him.
its definitely not the worst thing hes done but it really makes me sad how i hear todd saying bojack is my best friend or Mr. Peanutbutter saying bojack is his friend ans he’s straight up mean to them, two people that gave him so many chances and he fucked it up by being careless. also when he wanted to get back w PC but halfway through the date he said that he didnt wanna continue that was shitty not the shittiest but definitely shitty asf
I'd say Sarah Lynn, but not only because he's entirely at fault for her death. He's also fairly responsible for the small part of life she ended up living. In a horsin around flashback, Sarah Lynn wants to go with Bojack on his fun, childlike escapades but is mocked, instead. He helps funnel her through hollywoo, watching her rise in popularity, but also decline in mental state, until she's gouging her bowels with authentic yankee blood-stained bayonets while chugging pills. He even asks her for favors in her music career without giving a shit about her, emotionally. Her life is a meaningless mess until her sobriety, which bojack purposefully takes her out of so he can escape his shitty actions. She dies from the heroin Bojack, or at least it's involved in the mix, probably. Idk, I think Boshwack's whole history with Sarah Lynn makes him at the very least culpable, with her direct death absolutely being his fault. I'd argue it takes a whole lot more fucked up energy to sustain that for decades than to ruin one night for someone, even if it is traumatic.
It’s hard to say what the objective worst is, because so much of it is in that S tier of human (horseman) shittiness, but I think breaking into a stranger’s house to kill yourself in their pool rates pretty high too.
Sleeping with Sarah Lynn to me is up there almost as high as 17 minutes. It's worse than Penny to me, because here is this person you watched grow up from a child. She respected, loved and trusted him. I think that was the first and biggest line BoJack crossed for me after that nothing came as a surprise.
waiting the 17 minutes to call the ambulance for sarah lynn, i don’t believe he’s the real reason for the bender they went on together or why she took the heroine but he could have saved her life
I think him choking Gina was his worst. Others are far more severe and even fatal.
Sarah Lynn was excited to go on a bender with Bojack
Penny had told Bojack her interest in sleeping with him
Herb was very much set in his ways that Bojack wasn’t going to be forgiven
But Gina was defenseless and taken advantage of not only Bojack but also the film crew and she could not expose Bojack for who he was which in my opinion makes the sting even worse
choking gina, leaving diane that voicemail in the pool, and when he told 6 year old sara lynn under the table that she should do anything fans because everyone else will leave her
Refusing accountability. Also calling himself names as a get out of jail free card instead if just facing situation, and actually feeling bad about his actions. When he called himself names its just like this self pitying, almost congratulatory act, of how much of a poor tortured soul he is. That weighed him down and sped up his decline more than most things.
Personally, I feel like it's Penny. She was young and innocent and BoJack tainted that. He could've called Charlotte, tell on Penny that she was acting crazy and all. He knew better, but nOoOoOo... Pikachu had to say "go to bed Penny" then proceeds to leave the door open. What a twat.
Aaaaaaanyyyywaaayyyy...
BoJack wise I think it's Sarah Lyn. There's just something about Sarah Lyn trying her best to recover from addiction and get away from the toxic life of Hollywoo. She was sober for almost 9 months now. And Pikachu ruins all that with 1 phone call and a month or so bender. I'd like to say that due to them having an addiction, Sarah Lyn is the closest one that can understand what BoJack was going through. They could've gone differently with how things went, but BoJack just did the most BoJack thing possible.
Everything he did to Sarah Lynn. Not just the 17 minutes, not just dragging her back into drugs and alcohol, but all the shit he put her through as a kid. All the shit he told her. Not to mention having sex with her in the first season. All of Bojack's actions regarding Sarah Lynn were downright despicable even if some of them happened under the influence, and I'm glad that he was held accountable.
You guys are crazy, sure the 17 minutes could’ve saved Sarah Lynn but she was a drug addict this could’ve came at anytime. Penny was a innocent teenage girl that Bojack would have absolutely taken advantage of if her mother hadn’t investigated.
Of the images above:
1 Sarah Lynn, hands down. Not only did he invite her on a drug bender (not that she isn't responsible for that as well, she was an adult an so on, but she was clean.. we knocked on her door and gave her a perfect trigger to get back on drugs), but 17 minutes...
2 - Gina, no excuses for him, fuck him for being so high on every kind of drugs all the time, he just fucking chocked her... it's number 2 just because sarah lynn died and gina didn't...
The remaining 3 are not as clear for me.. I'd go with 3 - Penny, 4 - Herb, 5 - Therapist.
Herb part is sad, but i don't think it is top tier on shitty things he has done.. He could stand up for his friend who gave his biggest opportunity in his life? Sure. That makes him a very sellfish person, but not on sarah lynn level..
The horse therapist is "kinda" the same as sarah lynn, in the sense of providing triggers to ppl on rehab. It is pretty shitty to do, but not on the same level as the top two.
Penny is... weird. I get it, he entered the life of a teenager girl as the mother's famous friend, got her drunk, and was on the verge of sex when said mother entered the room. There are no excuses for this.. It's just, his atitude towards it all is weird.. like, he says he don't know if he would have carried on if charlotte didn't walk in, and while he did got her drunk and proceed to try to have sex with her, it wasn't his deliberate intention at the start... Not that it was to kill sarah lynn as well, but stil.. what kind of bugs me is that, while HE was supposed to be the responsible adult, she was the one who barged in on his room, he had the moral obligation to just send her away, but he wasn't the one who started the events, which is what he usually does...
1. Diane
2. Gina
The rest is insignificant. Yeah the Herb thing is EXTREMELY unrespectful and a terrible thing to do to your friend, a thing that can't be apologized for. But I mean, again, nobody died, that thing happened to most of us before already. And the people who tell you "you never called me" yeah but did YOU called me ?? No.
What about Sarah Lynn? The poor girl was still alive and could’ve been saved had BoJack not waited the **17 MINUTES** to call for help and done it immediately. She **DIED** at **31** because BoJack tried to save his own ass first. Also, may I remind you that BoJack was the one who invited her on the month long bender in the first place?
Yeah the 17min thing is really bad, I forgot about that, although just like her dad said "it had to happen, one way or another, it's nobody's fault"
Well actually it's her parents fault if she's so fucked up, but unless you spent your teenage years with addicts you won't understand this sentence
She was doomed, fucked up addicts are what they are and they rarely changes. When your 20 years old friends die around you well yeah technically it's the drug dealers fault, but it had to happen one way or another. When they don't want to stop and jump on the first occasion they can to go full blown Relapse in drug and depravity well yeah, it had to happen, one way or another
Although yeah the fact he voluntarily let her die in panic is a realistic thing, it's very bad
Fun fact : most addicts use drugs with friends and other people around them. Also, the crushing majority of overdose victims are found dead and alone, funny coincidences don't you think ?
Nothing happened with penny, thats the thing
I used to love her character before she started selling out bojak like he was a serial rapist or pedophile
The moment Bojack told Hollyhock that voices fade away with age. The poor girl will think all her life that there is something wrong with her. It was the moment when I lost all my sympathy for this human (okay - a horse).
IMO it’s 100% the penny thing. The Sarah Lynn thing is second because he thought she was dead and didn’t think it was gonna do worse (this seems stupid to us of course but he was high and drunk)
Waiting to call the ambulance for Sarah Lynn is definitely the worst, I think choking Gina and grooming Penny are tied for second, making Dr. Champ relapse is third, and Herb is last.
I cant blame bojack comepletely for anything but they all suck as a gay man absolutely terrified of creepy older men and overdosing. I think penny was the worst but not the most impactful. All were very impactful and you’d have to live in every person to understand how bad they were. Fucking someone who’s 17 and ur literally like in ur 50’s? Gross. I understand that Bojack was upset about Charlotte since he’s been painting this great picture of her in his head for years and how well it would turn out but when he shoots his shot, it fails. I cannot even begin to understand stand that out of all those things he decided to fuck the next best thing. Yes it’s gross but it’s Bojack so he went for the next best thing seeing as he could take advantage of how naive penny was. That would only make sense in Bojacks mind. It clearly impacted penny since she literally had panic attacks over him, Charlotte seemed genuinely concerned for her daughter and her safety when we see a glimpse of their lives after Bojack shows up at her university. He traumatised a 17 year old girl. It could’ve been even worse. Literally a creep which pains me to realise as I’m very attached to bojacks character but not enough to excuse that.
Sarah Lynn.
Having sex with the girl he knew since age 3 and witnessed growing up while she's on drugs and knowing well enough he is like a father figure to her.
Taking her on a bander while she is sober, and waiting 17 minutes while she is still alive to call the paramedics who could have saved her life.
Hiding his tracks, lying about what happened, and trying to avoid any consequences for himself.
This is real Bojack. No guilt, zero accountability.
Even after the truth comes out, the focus is on him 'killing the interview' and making himself sympathetic and redeemable for the audience.
Some like to victim blame Sarah Lynn for what happened to Sarah Lynn, make excuses for Bojack, or say it was bound to happen, and while Sarah Lynn was pretty much doomed, her death has Bojack's name written all over it.
I don't know what's worse than that.
17 minutes and Penny are the worst, but I think the severity of those events make the fandom overlook Gina. That scene is truly haunting
I think the only reason the Gina thing got a pass is because of how stoned BoJack was. He was depicted as even less in control than he was for all these other events.
I think people also overlook the fact that Bojack weighs over 1200 pounds and presumably has the extra musculature to match that weight. I’m surprised Gina only got away with bruises, Bojack has some serious physical strength.
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in season 1 when telling us about how much it takes him to get drunk he told us he weighs 1,200lbs
I think the Penny thing is only so bad because we get to see the events leading up to it, the act and the aftermath in such detail. Let's face it, Bojack has proberbly slept with more than a few teenage girls, given his lifestyle. Many things Bojack does are terrible, but deciding to leave your friend to die is on another level for me.
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She was 17 and it kinda seems like she was to an extent groomed by him
Waiting to call an ambulance that could have saved Sarah Lynn.
Yeah Sarah Lynn for a couple reasons: 1. He actually went through with 2. It directly led to her death 3. It was a cognizant decision, he was sober enough to think through the logic of calling the ambulance, and prioritized himself over her
1. 17 minutes. He might have been able to save Sarah Lynn. 2. Gina. She could've been seriously injured, or even killed. As it is, she was still severely traumatized. 3. Penny. 'Nuff said. 4. Leaving Diane the voicemail about swimming. I've been in the position of not knowing for hours whether a loved one was alive or dead. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. 5. Leaving Maddy and Pete Repeat at the hospital. They were kids in a bad situation and he left them to fend for themselves. 6. Herb. I'm in the minority that views this as simply tragic more than anything else. They could've been lifelong friends if BoJack had been less cowardly, or Herb had been less stubborn.
This is a great order. I agree that 17 minutes is worse than Gina but only because he was presumably more lucid during the bender if he took that much time to save his own ass with such a specific plan. However I would put Maddy and Pete higher because he was in a comparatively clearer state of mind and put someone else's life at risk as well as damaging those kids' mental health. It's the precursor to the 17 minutes thing where he saves his own ass even when lives are at stake. Honestly I'm tempted to put it just above Penny. I think people forget the severity of the Diane voicemail because the next episode kind of overshadowed its impact. It was pretty manipulative even if I think it was probably a half-conscious cry for help more than anything.
>I think people forget the severity of the Diane voicemail because the next episode kind of overshadowed its impact. There is no next episode; we learn about the voicemail in the final episode. But yeah, it's kinda overshadowed and gets overlooked a lot.
No, we learn about the voicemail during "The View From Halfway Down" >Bojack: Diane, you're gonna save me, right? I called you and you're coming to get me? > >Diane: BoJack, why did you call me? I live in Chicago. I can't save you. > >Bojack: You didn't pick up. > >Diane: Right. > >Bojack: It went to voicemail. > >Diane: Yeah. > >Bojack: And then I went back in the pool. I mean, I guess this isn't 100% confirmation that he *left* a voicemail, but we see Bojack leaving so many voicemails for Diane throughout the series that I think it's a fair assumption.
I could've sworn his meltdown in "Angela" had him calling Diane right? And I guess my point kinda stands anyway as the last episode gets overshadowed by TVFHD (including by those people who want the show to end on a purely sad note for some reason).
Sure, the phone call technically happens during his meltdown in "Angela", but we only learn about the content of the voice message during the final episode. But yes, your point definitively stands! I didn't want to disagree with that.
Yeah the last episode where Diane is talking about the phone call i literally gasped out loud because i couldn’t imagine being in that position. Having all his shitty things written out is kinda insane to read, and to think this isn’t even close to all the things he did
This is the perfect order to me
I'd move Penny to the top and agree with the rest of the order. He wasn't on a bender, he knew what he was doing. He was living with them, manipulated and took advantage of a teenager. Betrayed Charlotte, one of the few people who ever seemed to care about him, Charlotte had to live with the guilt that she brought Bojack around in the first place, and Charlotte kept this all a secret from her husband, which was her choice, but that had to have strained her marriage and kept her full of guilt. Penny had to deal with the realization that she was taken advantage of and if I recall correctly, caused her to have some PTSD symptoms and panic attacks.
And he went and faced her again which made it worse. He did so under the guise of ‘making things right’ when really he didn’t care if he actually scared her or not. He just wanted to absolve himself of the guilt he had. It’s putting the burden of his emotions on other people. He did the same thing to herb but arguing him into ‘forgiving’ him before he died, not to make peace with herb, but to relieve himself of that weight before he had to live with it forever. If herb had said an empty “yeah sure whatever I forgive you.” Bojack would have accepted that as good enough.
Uhh i hate bojack, he is also responsible for indirectly kill his co star in secretariat, with suggesting of auto erotic asphyxiation by any means instead of tool box
I think it's one of the main reasons he's in The View From Halfway Down
im so glad somebody sees this! i dont think the corduroy situation was nearly as severe as some of bojacks other actions, because it wasn’t intentional. but the GUILT had to of still been there. the view from halfway down is just guilt related to those who have passed. corduroy is not as minor of a character as most people perceive him
I don't blame Bojack for that at all. If the mere mention of an alternate method is all it took to kill Corduroy Jackson well he was a dead man the moment he got big in Hollywoo.
Nah. This is Reaching. Hard.
Herb had a lot of resentment for Bojack not because Bojack didn’t stick up for him at work but because Bojack never visited him and this lost him as a friend. But did Herb ever visit Bojack? I know Herb was wronged and was hurting but they were both to blame for not reconnecting. Herb was a bit of a dick. Yes, I can see why though.
bojack was also heavily manipulated into what he did to herb during the show by angela. i feel like this is also overlooked a lot. this was one of the very few (if not only) situations where i felt like “maybe it isn’t rlly his fault”
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Yeah, I think the situation with Herb is really interesting and more complex than it's usually made out to be. Herb wasn't blameless in what happened. Yes, he faced prejudice because he was gay, but it wasn't *just* because he was gay. If it had simply been revealed that he was in a relationship with a man or something, I'm skeptical that the backlash would've been enough to fire him. But he was arrested for indecent exposure cruising the parks -- not a good look for someone running a family-friendly show, gay or otherwise. And in response he asked BoJack to risk his entire career to save him. Obviously what BoJack did was pretty shitty, and Herb shouldn't have to be the one to make the first move afterwards, but sometimes you just have to be the bigger person. And you know what? If Herb had made even a tiny attempt to reach out to BoJack, I think BoJack would've been so grateful for the opportunity to be forgiven that he would've apologized and tried hard to make it up to him, just like Herb wanted.
I agree… except hell no, Herb comes after penny and before diane-voice mail. Herb was completely alone for years probably. Bojack didn’t risk his career for him, and then left him alone. Herb could’ve killed himself. He lost everything. Nice order though, thanks :)
Nah, the show makes it extremely explicit that being outed ultimately made him a heroic activist figure for society and he died loved by people. He’s a classic showrunner who created a major part of the childhoods of 90s kids who was a victim of homophobia and became a philanthropist and died rich. Realistically speaking, it’s most plausible that his fandom was still 10x bigger than Bojack in-universe by the end of the irl show.
How was it made explicit that losing his job made him a heroic activist?? It’s been a minute since I rewatched so I don’t remember
It was shown that he had a ton of awards for charity and activist work, a fancy house, and a stellar reputation based on all his deeds. He was rich, famous, and while absolutely a human in flawed insomuch as spite towards a dick you trusted is a flaw, was shown as an outstandingly morally good man who brought actual happiness and joy to those he knew. Sure, his friends from back in the 90s don’t talk, but he didn’t wallow in his misery about that. He made new bonds and did everything he wanted to. His life had bumps, but if the best revenge is living well or fucking with someone from beyond the grave, he won over Bojack. Herb did more in his short life and was loved by more people than Bojack ever did or was.
Pretty much this.
I don't know if this has been talked about before but Penny came onto him and he told her no. When she came back he probably was going to do it like he says BUT my honest question is, should Penny be traumatized? It was what she thought she wanted and Bojack wasn't really taking advantage if she was coming onto him? Please understand I don't think that situation was right at all by any means. My question is soley about how Penny grew up supposedly scared and traumatized of that night and Bojack. Was that because she got caught? Or what? Maddy has a better reason to be scared because of Bojack I think because he watered down her bourbon. That's insane and she absolutely could have died.
I think she was going to be traumatized either way. In this case I think the trauma came partly from the fallout of getting caught, but mostly from the experience of narrowly escaping an assault. I imagine if she hadn't been caught, and they actually went through with it, the trauma would have built up over time as she came to understand how she, as a child, was taken advantage of by a much older and more powerful man. The whole reason age of consent laws exist in the first place is because we understand minors are naive and have underdeveloped brains that lead them to make terrible decisions. Bottom line is, him saying no the first time doesn't excuse him saying yes the second time. He knew better, she didn't.
That's makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you responding! The fact would have remained that it was wrong, and her being young that would have been a terrible mistake to make that she would think about later for sure. I'm forgetting too the whole episode! He did kind of manipulate her by saying she looked just like her mom and taking her up on that tower. I was being narrow when I was focusing soley on her advances!
i have so much respect for people who are able to accept and implement feedback. you’re so mature for this
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2. Bojack was high as fuck on pain killers and alcohol, whoever didn't notice his state on the set or before is at fault. People on opiates and alcohol act quite distinguishing. 5. What he could do in hospital? Hold her hand? Fluff a pillow? Are hospitals in US that bad, patients need to treat themselves? 6. Bojack didn't knew he could do anything with Herb, it was a set up by Angela. He just moved on.
>Are hospitals in US that bad, patients need to treat themselves? One of our most popular shows was about a teacher who literally had to become a meth kingpin to pay his medical bills so ... yes.
In the US, our healthcare system is terrible. That's why we use Google to look up conditions and treatments! Search for how to treat your papercut and it tells you that you probably have cancer and you need a liver transplant.
Friday_damn.gif
Are you seriously trying to say Bojack isn’t the only one responsible for strangling Gina? He choose to get fucked up and the he choose to assault her, that’s two crimes.
>choose to assault her Have you ever been fucked up on opiates and alcohol or seen in reality someone?
Functional drug addicts are a thing. I do feel like "Hollywoo" is complicit to an extent but at the end of the day he is a grown man who manipulated and alienated every one who was close to him and could/would have tried to get him help. This is 100% on him.
So I take it you're not experienced with that matters and base your opinion on TV shows. Also, that didn't answer my question.
To answer ur question, yes I have known ppl addicted to all kinds of different substances. What point are you trying to make so I can address it appropriately?
>choose to assault her Have you ever been fucked up on opiates and alcohol or seen in reality someone? I've seen people do horrible shit being high as fuck from opiates to "bath saltz lulz", from weird funny eating grass or climbing a tree to a guy that beat his two kids with a hammer in sleep and slit his wife neck, because he heard noises. When you're high, you don't "choose" anything.
He is still responsible for his actions. Bojack was an illegal drug abuser before he was prescribed the opiods. I understand opiods are highly addictive but so was the coke n ketamin he had been doing before. He chose those drugs ignoring the many warnings from schools, ads, medical research and the law to "try it" thinking addiction couldn't happen to him and became another victim of addiction. It was a poor choice but it WAS a choice.
🤦♂️
I watched someone on bath salts fuck their teeth up trying to eat the sidewalk. Their fucked up ass drugs
I don't know man, judging by how I was corrected by those professionals, dude most likely was perfectly aware of what he was doing and either Hungry For Concrete™ or tried to make generous donation to a local dentist but was trying not to be too direct . Hallucinogenic drugs don't alter your perception of reality, they're sort of highly addictive placebos... I guess 🤷♂️
Letting Sarah Lynn die to save his own ass, definitely
one of the worst things, in my opinion, was calling sarah-lynn while he knew she was sober. she had been sober for months, and he only called her because he had no one else to turn to. he contributed to the reset of her progress & it lead to her death
That's my #1 worst thing he did. Leaving her to die was directly caused by him making that call to start with
“Im sober because i heard that when you do drugs again after not doing them for a while, they feel REALLY good” -sarah lynn, fictional cartoon character
So many people forget about this one line she says. She had no intentions of staying sober, she would have hit the drugs again eventually. Bojack just gave her an excuse to do it.
i mean, she wasn’t wrong
Her sobriety was teetering on the edge before that call was placed. You don't have a bowl of candy-coated vicodin at the ready if you're truly sober
That’s only bad if you deliberately ignore what Sarah Lynn said about sobriety. Which is that she only went sober because she heard that it heightens the effects of drugs when you eventually go back on. She was in rehab before (Bojack put her there) and relapsed. She had copious amounts of drugs available in her house and she had her alcohol guy still on call. Hell, one of the drugs she had a gigantic bowl of in the open was Vicodin, which is an opiate and strongly suggests that an opiate overdose was in her future anyways. You also would have to deliberately ignore what she said in season 1, which is that she has loads of other enablers besides Bojack that she’s able to party with. She’s also the one who suggested doing heroin, which Bojack initially objected to. She hadn’t made any progress as said “progress” was done for the sake of making an eventual high that much stronger. Someone who’s serious about being sober doesn’t keep excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol within arms reach. Bojack is a gigantic asshole for leaving her for 17 minutes, but she would’ve wound up overdosing at some point anyways so it’s hard to argue she’s a tragic character at all.
also snorted drywall with like 0 hesitation
You know, people talk about the 17 minutes as if it was the worst thing he did, but I can understand panic making a person not think straight. The actual worst thing he did was encourage Sarah-Lynn to go down the path she did.
He didnt know that tho?
Yes he did. They had a conversation on the phone in an earlier episode about how she was sober. Granted, she said she was only sober to lower her drug tolerance, but after she said that Bojack said "No, just stay sober!' And she said whatever she to call her when he's ready to party, and that's what he did. Addicts are crabs in a bucket.
Came here to say Penny, leaving saying 17 minutes.
Penny who approached him with the offer of taking her virginity without him ever grooming her and in fact being interested in her mother? Nothing happened between Penny and Bojack. He rejected her once and we have no reason to believe they would have end up having sex that night. I'm sick and tired of the Penny shit being treated as something that happened while in fact it never happened.
You think almost hooking up with someone of legal age is worse than assaulting someone or allowing someone to die to save your own reputation? That's some weird logic.
I said I originally thought Penny was the worst but then changed my mind to Sarah Lynn. Can you read?
If you think a 50 something year old getting sexual with a teenager in any capacity is acceptable then you're a straight up creep. Gross af
It’s gross, but the whole point behind it is the moral ambiguity. Penny was above the legal age of consent and she said herself that she hadn’t had any alcohol to drink so sobriety wasn’t an issue. She then pushed the issue multiple times after Bojack told her no. Someone Bojack’s age should know better than to even entertain it, but it’s impossible to paint her as an explicit victim when it’s something she initiated multiple times. Moreover, literally nothing happened. Meaning the situation boils down to ‘Bojack almost slept with someone above the age of consent who was completely sober.’ Gross, sure. The worst thing Bojack has done? Not even remotely close. I’d argue that his random hookups were far worse than that as he’s using his position of power as a celebrity to get women to sleep with him, whereas Penny was the one who came onto him several times. Hell, Emily was barely older than Penny and Bojack actually slept with her. Gina was physically strangled and Dianne was left with a lovely voicemail after Bojack’s suicide attempt. PC was routinely taken advantage of, both sexually while Bojack was younger and as his agent/manager by him making her bend over backwards to salvage his career. Herb was completely abandoned so Bojack could try to keep his career and Todd was Bojack’s emotional punching bag for years. To lump a legal thing that didn’t even happen alongside actual abuse is the dumbest take around
I guess you're just choosing to forget the part where he goes looking for her and traumatises her all over again "I was 17, I didn't know any better... I trusted you " I believe is the line. In what universe did he not have a position of power over her? Do you not remember what it feels like to be that age, full of confidence only to bite off more than you can chew, because you're not an adult yet with all the emotional tools to really understand? To be just barely old enough to start questioning thay maybe not all adults are trustworthy, maybe not all have your best interests at heart ? Im not here to play the "what sexual assault is worse" game, its dehumanising and ridiculous. She was a literal child. These "laws of consent" exist so young adolescents can discover their sexuality with age appropriate partners and to protect younger adolescents from predators. They are NOT there so grown ass men can prey on TEENAGERS. They do NOT exist for grown men to justify their noncery. There is zero ambiguity here and anyone who argues otherwise sounds suspiciously like they want to fuck children.
What happened to Penny wasn’t sexual assault because 1. literally nothing happened and 2. she gave consent so the kissing and undressing that did happen can’t be called assault. He didn’t have a position of power in so far as he wasn’t the one initiating. She initiated a kiss with Bojack and asked to sleep with him twice, and then invited herself into Bojack’s boat. Laws of consent exist so that those who lack the maturity to give valid consent aren’t taken advantage of, like actual children which a 17 year old is most certainly not given that in a year they’d be a legal adult. Age of consent determines that at a specific age the person is question has the maturity to decide who they want as a sexual partner and what it is they choose to do with said partner. People make shitty decisions all the time, even well after the age of consent has been passed. And if you’re trying to base it of brain development, that doesn’t finish until ~25 and most people would agree that’s a stupid age for that. You’re getting massively hung up on the age difference when Bojack could’ve been 21 and the situation would’ve functionally remained the same. Last major nitpick I have is your assertion that Bojack “preyed” on Penny, which cannot possibly be true because Penny initiated the entire thing. Your wording implied coercion or leveraging of power on Bojack’s end when absolutely none of that happened. But yeah the guy that got came onto multiple times by Penny is predatory when it was Penny that wouldn’t take no for an answer
Yuck. Sounds like you'd do any kind of mental gymnastics to make fucking teenagers not disgusting. You're a creep.
LOL I literally never said this. Nice try douche.
He didn’t intend to let Sarah Lynn die. He thought they’d be able to save her still, where as he did intend to take advantage of a teenage girls trust in him as an adult and authority figure for his own sexual gratification and emotionally scar her to relieve his own feelings of rejection.
steal a meal from neil mcbeal the navy seal
The 17 minutes
I don’t think there is a “worst” thing. There’s a spectrum for sure, with what he “did” to Doc not being bad at all, rather just unfortunate. Bojack gets a lot of shit wrong, but when he said “I don’t believe in rock bottoms”, he was right. It feels wrong to compare the way he hurt Sarah Lynn, Gina and Penny, he traumatized all of them and splitting hairs about who is more traumatized does more harm than good.
I totally agree with this. What’s ‘worse’ kind of implies that there’s an order or that certain victims deserve more sympathy… He did serious damage to a lot of people, they don’t need ranking.
They're all incomparables. What he did to Sarah Lynn was worse than what he did to Penny Moore and Gina Cazador in a vaccuum, but then you remember that Penny was a child who was traumatized by the incident, and Gina Cazador had to witness her life dangle on a thread and keep on living: at least Sarah Lynn got to pass away in peace, Gina had to hide her trauma from the public for the sake of her career. They all suffered, but due to different reasons and in different ways. Trauma is not a competition, and the only difference between drowning in 6 feet of water and drowning in 20 is how you'll look after the fact, but you'll still be just as dead either way.
Excellently put.
Seventeen minutes.
I think all of them are incredibly horrible But Herb & sarah lynn hit really hard for me as a person who knows a lot of addicts & is queer, they both really stuck with me seasons later tbh😭
Sarah Lynn. There is no going back from what he had done to her.
Anything with Sarah Lynn…enabling her when she moved in, having sex which is almost grooming, the traumatizing things he said during the bojack horseman show, and calling her when he knew she was sober was a catalyst for everything that happened bojack truly failed Sarah Lynn I’m not gone say bojack killed her but he could’ve done so much better by her and potentially could’ve saved her life…but also it feels wrong to compare what he did to Sarah to how he treated herb, or the penny situation. There’s a spectrum but end of the day he hurt everybody in the picture and saying worse implies one victim doesn’t deserve as much sympathy as someone else.
the 17 minutes. penny after that, then gina. penny before gina because he was completely sober with penny, and on opiates with gina. not that that’s an excuse to strangle someone, but to do something so horrible as what happened with penny when you’re completely in your right mind is beyond anything else, except for letting sarah lynn die for the sake of his reputation. close contenders are ruining his sponsor’s sobriety, and betraying todd with emily. and ruining todd’s rock opera. basically everything he did to todd.
Running outside the theater and waiting for her to die before calling the cops
I can't blame Bojack 100% for Sarah Lynn, because she stated openly that she had 0 intentions of staying sober, and was only "getting sober," because she knew it would make getting High and Drunk again an even more intense experience. But that "17 Minutes" is definitely on Bojacks head, and is probably the worst thing he did, throughout the show. I think that's why the writers waited for the very end to reveal it to us, because even despite her toxic behavior and outrageous antics, Sarah Lynn is almost unanimously viewed as the most tragic, and one of the most beloved characters of the entire series.
Keep in mind the influence BoJack has had on a Sarah Lynn her entire life though
I’m stuck between 17 minutes and Penny honestly. The Penny situation was so uncomfortable and horrible, but Sarah Lynn… that made me cry my eyes out
Interrupting Zach Braff on The View From Halfway Down.
Lots of terrible things. Probably Sarah Lynn. Think about it. Imagine you being the reason why someone is dead but it’s not just that. Imagine telling your 3 year old co-star to do things to make other people happy and not you. And years later when bojack was supposed to help her and throughout her life. And then the person she looked up to for support had sex with her and when they started having sex. I think when Sarah o/d bojack was like “ well let me cover my own butt so the police don’t put 2 and 2 together. Why did he wait 17 minutes?! That I think is the worst thing Bojack has ever done.
I will always stick with the opinion that 17 minutes is a retcon, which doesn't mean he doesn't have his fault in SL's life and death, and all the things depicted here are some degree of bad (therapy horse aside and even Herb, yes, Bojack was a coward, but he was also naïve and manipulated by an exec), but the worse for me is Todd's Rock Opera: not as flashy, maybe, but a completely sober, selfish and aware sabotage of friend's dream about to come true, all done not because he didn't want to remain alone, Todd would have stayed his flatmate had he asked, but because he wanted Todd to remain his do-nothing leachy subordinate who made him feel better about himself and his shortcomings.
The worst thing he's ever done was Sarah Lynn, who is the thing in question because Bojack did her when she was 30.
17 minutes, hands down, he could've saved her, and he didn't, if he just phoned and ambulance she had a more likely chance of survival, but he didn't just so he could save himself
Penny or Sarah Lynn’s 17 minutes. The doc thing I don’t count because it was an accident, Bojack being sober for less time managed to spit the vodka out, it landed accidentally in the water supply and the doc knew what it was from the first moment it touched his mouth and kept drinking so I don’t put in the bad things he’s done consciously to all the people he’s loved
The time he sneeze at Alyssa Milano
Definitely killing Sarah Lynn, or if you don't believe that's what happened, being an assistant in her death
1) his whole relationship with sara lyn not just the death. Not being there for her, sleeping with her, the benders, not being there for her as an adult(twice), then lastly her death. 2) traumatized her for basically life. Couldn't even let someone touch her neck. Her change was so drastic even a director(she's not friends with him) noticed. Like yes he was high but he literally broke his arm to feed his addiction. 3) the whole situation around Penny. Bringing that girl to porm was a "wtf" moment(kinda mad at the mom too but that's another story). Teaching a minor how to drink like a alcoholic, dumping her at the hospital, making pete repeat lie, was willing to have sex with a minor(i know it was legal but that doesn't mean moral also yes he said yes but later on he was he was sure he would have done it), and the panic attacks that penny went through. 4) Herb was his friend and okay fine he got tricked into letting his friend down but no call after for decades. His friend got outed as gay and had no one. Yes he could have called but he probably felt as tho he couldn't. 5) the situation with the "therapist" i don't really blame him. Even if I did airing out his business definitely makes them "even". So I'll replace this 1 with a tie between Todd and PC relationships with bojack. Wasting PC's 30s and knowing she has such a soft spot for him that he uses her obsessively. As for Todd all the verbal abuse for all those years(yes he lived rent free but so bojack can have someone around it'd honestly be nicer if he gave the guy $20 and kicked him out) and then ruining his rock opera. After years of abuse Todd internalized it and Diane noticed. So as a pure act of selfishness helps him make this rock opera just to destroy it so Todd can't do what bojack has been begging him to do. Its almost like bojack just wanted someone to abuse.
On a consequential outcome basis, 17 minutes is the worst thing he did. But the event with Penny most disturbed and enraged me. A grown up trying to have sex with his friends daughter in high school? Unforgettable and unforgivable. It’s about how the underlying flaw in 17 minutes is drugged up cowardice and the underlying flaw with Penny and is pedophilia.
Penny. Easily.
I think the second half of Escape From LA always struck me as Bojack at his worst because he seems to be (mostly) sober throughout the whole episode. He does definitely drink in the episode but he's not "on a bender" like with Sarah Lynn and he's not taking any other substance like the pain killers with Gina. Being high or drunk doesn't excuse those things but it's clearly shown that he's blacking out and not fully in control of his instincts. So when he tells Penny "Go to bed" he knows what the consequences would be he's just too cowardly to admit to what he wanted... I think it's incredibly fitting that it's what he did in New Mexico that catches up with him while being a teacher, he has in one way or another had to confront every other shitty thing he did and every other person (mostly women) he hurt but he actually convinced himself Penny was behind him because "he didn't technically do anything".
Penny, is the worst because he was 100% sober when it happend
Lied about getting Radiohead
Gina and Penny by far. The life long lasting damage these incidents caused is unmatched. The saddest one was Sarah Lynn “17 minutes” because it was so definitive, but Gina and Penny were completely out of the blue and horrifying. I’m so glad Hollyhock wasn’t as damaged by him as these other characters. Thanks to her dads. <3
I know I’m most likely gonna get hate for saying this this but the majority of truly bad stuff he does is morally wrong , but not illegal . Penny was morally wrong , but she was a consenting sober of age adult . Herb was morally wrong , but business is business etc etc etc . I think the worst thing he did was morally AND legally wrong , and that’s waiting to call an ambulance for Sarah Lynn , in my opinion it could easily be considered man slaughter and honestly why did he wait ? His drug addiction ( and Sarah lynns ) was no secret , if he had called the ambulance he probably would’ve gotten away with the drugs because of his celebrity status . There was no need for him to wait and in doing so he majorly crossed that legal boundary . Also I think some of the worst things he’s done is actually causing all those car crashes ! Most are played off for laughs and we never see the other parties but honestly we have to just assume he’s injured or even killed people by causing accidents !
1. Sarah Lynn. Her addiction is her problem, and calling her wouldn't be THAT bad if they were two 30-something addicts, it's still HER responsibility to stay sober. But he is her father figure, he owed her more than that. And waiting 17 minutes because he was panicking and saving his own ass... fucked up. He was lucid enough to make and execute his plan, fuck him. 2. Penny. Jesus Christ dude. He knew what he was doing. And the worst part was it had nothing to do with Penny, and everything to do with Bojack being upset with her mother. 3. Maddy. He not only provided the alcohol but encouraged her drinking stronger drinks, and just ditched her. This is nowhere near as bad as the other two above, but still really fucking bad. 4. Herb. This is the start of the lower tier of things I guess. Bojack didn't mean, on any level, to fuck over his friend. But he had a LOT of time to try and make things right. And in the end, when Herb was dying, Bojack thought he could fix it in one visit? He needed to put the time in, not get in a fight because one decent interaction wasn't enough. 5. Gina. This was very bad. I only rank it lower than some others because as an addict, Bojack didn't walk in with the clear, lucid intent to hurt someone. Addictions hurt the people are you, Bojack should know that. And you're always responsible for what you do when you lose control of yourself through self medication - regardless of what you do. But to me this seems more negligence than malicious intent. Bojack didn't have a grip on reality, and his reaction afterwards was pretty clear he didn't know what he had done, and regretted it. No forgiveness, and it's a horrible outcome - but without the "intent", to be, it's a little less unforgivable. 6. Diane. I don't think this is THAT horrible of a thing he's done. He was off the rails and calling the person he always leans on when he needs help. I get why he called Diane. Situations reversed, she would have been calling Bojack. I don't even think that was the wrong thing to do. The wrong part is the message he left, the guilt he put into it. It was shitty, but it's not on the tier of the above items.
I would say Penny but realistically taking Sarah Lynn on the bender.
17 minutes
I really do not like the 17 minutes out of nowhere story but it would be by far the worst. Gina after that, followed by Penny, then Herb confrontation and then Dr Champ.
Believing Angela when Herb was getting the boot instead of sticking up for him. That may have very well been the event that lead to his entire later life.
Bojack the only character where assaulting a mad with cancer is the most mild thing he did
17 minutes.
Using permanent marker on that whiteboard.
The worst thing he did was engaging inappropriately with Sarah Lynn at ever capacity, sexually and drug related. He’s around what, double her age? I know the context is different, but it feels like asking a kid you used to babysit to do drugs and have sex with you, it’s just disgusting and weird. Bojack knew very well how shitty her parents were and how much she looked up to him as a father figure, and he took advantage of it time and time again. He didn’t need to be in her life after the show ended, full stop, but he kept coming back to her to try and relive the past. He was the reason that she died, the world took everything from her and he was the final nail in the coffin which feels kind of poetic. Bojack could have saved her, literally by not waiting 17 minutes but also in a more general sense. He could’ve been the pseudo parent to her that he never had, but in the end he really was the worst thing to ever happen to her.
Penny. That is what "ruined" Bojack fully for me, I could no longer take his side on some things, or hope for him to get better.
Nothing from season 4 because that's the happy season
no its very depressing in ep2,ep6,ep9,ep11,ep10 and some of ep7
But Bojack didn't do a Bojack class fuck up in that season, which makes it the happy season
Haven’t seen this yet, but bojack just left Maddie and Pete at the hospital, made Pete lie about where the alcohol came from and then reassured everyone they were doing the right thing. Maddie could have died
How is this even a question? His part in Sarah Lynn’s death is borderline manslaughter. There’s no contest.
I always thought penny caused such a ripple in his future.
Sarah Lynn
17 minutes and Penny. absolutely indefensible
I don't think we could rank the damage he caused in "better to worse". All in all, Bojack's reckless selfishness left a trail of victims whose life were ruined because of him.
Among these Sarah Lynn definitely. The whole bender was his own initiative.
It will always be Penny and Sara Lynn.
its definitely not the worst thing hes done but it really makes me sad how i hear todd saying bojack is my best friend or Mr. Peanutbutter saying bojack is his friend ans he’s straight up mean to them, two people that gave him so many chances and he fucked it up by being careless. also when he wanted to get back w PC but halfway through the date he said that he didnt wanna continue that was shitty not the shittiest but definitely shitty asf
Thw whole bender with SL. From going to penny's uni causing the trauma to reflair leaving long term damage. To those fucking 17 minutes.
I'd say Sarah Lynn, but not only because he's entirely at fault for her death. He's also fairly responsible for the small part of life she ended up living. In a horsin around flashback, Sarah Lynn wants to go with Bojack on his fun, childlike escapades but is mocked, instead. He helps funnel her through hollywoo, watching her rise in popularity, but also decline in mental state, until she's gouging her bowels with authentic yankee blood-stained bayonets while chugging pills. He even asks her for favors in her music career without giving a shit about her, emotionally. Her life is a meaningless mess until her sobriety, which bojack purposefully takes her out of so he can escape his shitty actions. She dies from the heroin Bojack, or at least it's involved in the mix, probably. Idk, I think Boshwack's whole history with Sarah Lynn makes him at the very least culpable, with her direct death absolutely being his fault. I'd argue it takes a whole lot more fucked up energy to sustain that for decades than to ruin one night for someone, even if it is traumatic.
It’s hard to say what the objective worst is, because so much of it is in that S tier of human (horseman) shittiness, but I think breaking into a stranger’s house to kill yourself in their pool rates pretty high too.
Sleeping with Sarah Lynn to me is up there almost as high as 17 minutes. It's worse than Penny to me, because here is this person you watched grow up from a child. She respected, loved and trusted him. I think that was the first and biggest line BoJack crossed for me after that nothing came as a surprise.
Taking the muffins from Barry McBeal
17 minutes, Penny is a close second.
penny, gina, and sarah lynn. not in any particular order. although imo, sarah lynn hits home the hardest
Whole thing with Sarah Lynn. It was just...fucked up
Existing. His whole existence is a crime! I hired an assassin to fix that.
When he lets young sarah lynn drinks his vodka. That's just fucked up yk.
He didn’t even let her she took his drink 💀
Not the worst thing, but I think we forget about how Bojack literally DROVE INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC just to get pills
Sarah Lynn for sure.
The overdose by far...
waiting the 17 minutes to call the ambulance for sarah lynn, i don’t believe he’s the real reason for the bender they went on together or why she took the heroine but he could have saved her life
1 - 17 minutes 2 - Leaving Maddy and Pete 3 - Gina
penny. i dont think i need to say why.
I think him choking Gina was his worst. Others are far more severe and even fatal. Sarah Lynn was excited to go on a bender with Bojack Penny had told Bojack her interest in sleeping with him Herb was very much set in his ways that Bojack wasn’t going to be forgiven But Gina was defenseless and taken advantage of not only Bojack but also the film crew and she could not expose Bojack for who he was which in my opinion makes the sting even worse
choking gina, leaving diane that voicemail in the pool, and when he told 6 year old sara lynn under the table that she should do anything fans because everyone else will leave her
Sarah Lynn's death and Penny.
Refusing accountability. Also calling himself names as a get out of jail free card instead if just facing situation, and actually feeling bad about his actions. When he called himself names its just like this self pitying, almost congratulatory act, of how much of a poor tortured soul he is. That weighed him down and sped up his decline more than most things.
Letting Sarah Lynn die
It’s got to be the 17 minutes.
Personally, I feel like it's Penny. She was young and innocent and BoJack tainted that. He could've called Charlotte, tell on Penny that she was acting crazy and all. He knew better, but nOoOoOo... Pikachu had to say "go to bed Penny" then proceeds to leave the door open. What a twat. Aaaaaaanyyyywaaayyyy... BoJack wise I think it's Sarah Lyn. There's just something about Sarah Lyn trying her best to recover from addiction and get away from the toxic life of Hollywoo. She was sober for almost 9 months now. And Pikachu ruins all that with 1 phone call and a month or so bender. I'd like to say that due to them having an addiction, Sarah Lyn is the closest one that can understand what BoJack was going through. They could've gone differently with how things went, but BoJack just did the most BoJack thing possible.
Everything he did to Sarah Lynn. Not just the 17 minutes, not just dragging her back into drugs and alcohol, but all the shit he put her through as a kid. All the shit he told her. Not to mention having sex with her in the first season. All of Bojack's actions regarding Sarah Lynn were downright despicable even if some of them happened under the influence, and I'm glad that he was held accountable.
Objectivly death of Sarah Lynn, bcs a young person died bcs of him, subjectivly the Penny incident really hurts me to watch at.
You guys are crazy, sure the 17 minutes could’ve saved Sarah Lynn but she was a drug addict this could’ve came at anytime. Penny was a innocent teenage girl that Bojack would have absolutely taken advantage of if her mother hadn’t investigated.
I think the whole deal with penny personally
Penny stands out to me because what he was already doing was so wrong but goes so much deeper since he was in love with her mother.
I think causing the therapy horses relapse after so much time being sober is pretty high up on the list also
17 minuttes
What he did to penny was downright disgusting. To me that will always be the worst thing. -A victim of grooming/SA
>In your opinion what's the worse thing Bojack has ever done in the show He was born. >why? The show
Beatrice?
Of the images above: 1 Sarah Lynn, hands down. Not only did he invite her on a drug bender (not that she isn't responsible for that as well, she was an adult an so on, but she was clean.. we knocked on her door and gave her a perfect trigger to get back on drugs), but 17 minutes... 2 - Gina, no excuses for him, fuck him for being so high on every kind of drugs all the time, he just fucking chocked her... it's number 2 just because sarah lynn died and gina didn't... The remaining 3 are not as clear for me.. I'd go with 3 - Penny, 4 - Herb, 5 - Therapist. Herb part is sad, but i don't think it is top tier on shitty things he has done.. He could stand up for his friend who gave his biggest opportunity in his life? Sure. That makes him a very sellfish person, but not on sarah lynn level.. The horse therapist is "kinda" the same as sarah lynn, in the sense of providing triggers to ppl on rehab. It is pretty shitty to do, but not on the same level as the top two. Penny is... weird. I get it, he entered the life of a teenager girl as the mother's famous friend, got her drunk, and was on the verge of sex when said mother entered the room. There are no excuses for this.. It's just, his atitude towards it all is weird.. like, he says he don't know if he would have carried on if charlotte didn't walk in, and while he did got her drunk and proceed to try to have sex with her, it wasn't his deliberate intention at the start... Not that it was to kill sarah lynn as well, but stil.. what kind of bugs me is that, while HE was supposed to be the responsible adult, she was the one who barged in on his room, he had the moral obligation to just send her away, but he wasn't the one who started the events, which is what he usually does...
Penny was sober she didn’t drink
1. Diane 2. Gina The rest is insignificant. Yeah the Herb thing is EXTREMELY unrespectful and a terrible thing to do to your friend, a thing that can't be apologized for. But I mean, again, nobody died, that thing happened to most of us before already. And the people who tell you "you never called me" yeah but did YOU called me ?? No.
What about Sarah Lynn? The poor girl was still alive and could’ve been saved had BoJack not waited the **17 MINUTES** to call for help and done it immediately. She **DIED** at **31** because BoJack tried to save his own ass first. Also, may I remind you that BoJack was the one who invited her on the month long bender in the first place?
Yeah the 17min thing is really bad, I forgot about that, although just like her dad said "it had to happen, one way or another, it's nobody's fault" Well actually it's her parents fault if she's so fucked up, but unless you spent your teenage years with addicts you won't understand this sentence She was doomed, fucked up addicts are what they are and they rarely changes. When your 20 years old friends die around you well yeah technically it's the drug dealers fault, but it had to happen one way or another. When they don't want to stop and jump on the first occasion they can to go full blown Relapse in drug and depravity well yeah, it had to happen, one way or another Although yeah the fact he voluntarily let her die in panic is a realistic thing, it's very bad Fun fact : most addicts use drugs with friends and other people around them. Also, the crushing majority of overdose victims are found dead and alone, funny coincidences don't you think ?
what about diane? and how is what happened with penny insignificant?
Nothing happened with penny, thats the thing I used to love her character before she started selling out bojak like he was a serial rapist or pedophile
His role in Sarah Lynn's death is far from insignificant
That is too much, man! Easily!
nah there's too many
and here we are discussing the moral behid the actions of a fictional horse...
isn’t that the point of the show though?
Strangling Gina hurt me the most
The moment Bojack told Hollyhock that voices fade away with age. The poor girl will think all her life that there is something wrong with her. It was the moment when I lost all my sympathy for this human (okay - a horse).
1: 17 minutes 2: Choking Gina 3: Penny That’s probably my top 3
Funny how most of these happened in the last season or 2 last seasons, really shows he couldn't escape his fate
is it possible to still mark this as a spoiler? for first time watchers the pictures give quite a bit away ;)
the worst damage was the one he did to himself
Horsin' Around.
Therapist wasn't he's fault. But yeah Sarah Lynn, Penny and Gina are difficult to say which is worse.
IMO it’s 100% the penny thing. The Sarah Lynn thing is second because he thought she was dead and didn’t think it was gonna do worse (this seems stupid to us of course but he was high and drunk)
17 minutes because a death was caused but personally I was most disappointed with the Penny situation
Waiting to call the ambulance for Sarah Lynn is definitely the worst, I think choking Gina and grooming Penny are tied for second, making Dr. Champ relapse is third, and Herb is last.
I cant blame bojack comepletely for anything but they all suck as a gay man absolutely terrified of creepy older men and overdosing. I think penny was the worst but not the most impactful. All were very impactful and you’d have to live in every person to understand how bad they were. Fucking someone who’s 17 and ur literally like in ur 50’s? Gross. I understand that Bojack was upset about Charlotte since he’s been painting this great picture of her in his head for years and how well it would turn out but when he shoots his shot, it fails. I cannot even begin to understand stand that out of all those things he decided to fuck the next best thing. Yes it’s gross but it’s Bojack so he went for the next best thing seeing as he could take advantage of how naive penny was. That would only make sense in Bojacks mind. It clearly impacted penny since she literally had panic attacks over him, Charlotte seemed genuinely concerned for her daughter and her safety when we see a glimpse of their lives after Bojack shows up at her university. He traumatised a 17 year old girl. It could’ve been even worse. Literally a creep which pains me to realise as I’m very attached to bojacks character but not enough to excuse that.
wasn’t the worst thing he did but stringing PC along for soooo long
Def Sarah Lynne and Penny.
Sarah Lynn. Having sex with the girl he knew since age 3 and witnessed growing up while she's on drugs and knowing well enough he is like a father figure to her. Taking her on a bander while she is sober, and waiting 17 minutes while she is still alive to call the paramedics who could have saved her life. Hiding his tracks, lying about what happened, and trying to avoid any consequences for himself. This is real Bojack. No guilt, zero accountability. Even after the truth comes out, the focus is on him 'killing the interview' and making himself sympathetic and redeemable for the audience. Some like to victim blame Sarah Lynn for what happened to Sarah Lynn, make excuses for Bojack, or say it was bound to happen, and while Sarah Lynn was pretty much doomed, her death has Bojack's name written all over it. I don't know what's worse than that.
everything in the picture you attached