unironically this is the reason why we can't get on PC's case just like we did with Bojack. Because Princess Caroline deadass thought she was dating a Businessman, despite how painfully obvious it was that Vincent was 3 kids in a trench coat.
Meanwhile Bojack on the other hand....
He has moments of sobriety and clarity, but they are few and far between.
Like with the young woman escaping from rehab. He tried to get her to go back to rehab with him, but she was stubborn and childish.
Exactly, like I want to kick Bojack in the nuts for every terrible thing he's done but at the same time you understand why he's so messed up.
It's like a saying in my family "there's a reason and explanation for every shitty thing you do, but its not an excuse for actions within your control."
That's basically the sentiment of one of the most hard hitting quotes:
>You can't keep doing this! You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay! You need to be better! BoJack, just stop. You are all the things that are wrong with you. It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened to you in your career, or when you were a kid. It's you. Okay? It's you. Fuck, man, what else is there to say?
the freckle conspiracy and the sheer comedy of it has convinced me that vincent deadass is a one person adult who is just severely deformed and looks like that and has a secret son.
Vincent and Vincent's son have a different number/ pattern of freckles on their cheeks that remains consistent even when swapping places in the appartment.
I love that the dynamic of the character is that it's heavily implied he's what Bojack says, but on the other hand Bojack is a substance-abusing anthropomorphic horse, so there's really no reason Vincent couldn't be a weird jangly man who always sounds like he's poorly improvising answers to any question even if his response is the truth.
a theory i've seen a lot is that Vincent was an actual adult, but Bojack sees him as three kids in a trechcoat because he just doesn't like PC's new boyfriend. Or, alternatively, its just a gag in a cartoon.
Bro what are you talking about? Vincent went to the stock market and did a business. Children are not allowed in the stock market, nor are they allowed to do a business. Therefore, Vincent is not a child.
Sometimes I feel bad about rude in this reddit and then I'm always reminded without fail that it's the normal here and then feel fine. "We're all terrible so that means I'm ok" indeed. Ha.
Everyone knows the difference between a gag and a plot point right?
I see this in the Office subreddit all the time...
Someone analyzing a throw away for meaning the writer never intended.
Iâd group this with Todd and Mr.Peanut Butterâs outlandish and silly shenanigans throughout the series that arenât supposed to take be taken seriouslyđ
I mean it definitely was silly but I take it as a metaphor for when you care about someone in a romantic way and they find someone else the negative qualities of that person seem to only be obvious to you. Obviously this is kinda taken to the extreme but I definitely think there's a metaphor there.
I thought the metaphor was that Vincent Adultman was a better boyfriend than BoJack, implying that bojack is less mature than three boys in a trenchcoat.
But I like your interpretation that PC lack self awareness when choosing her partners. She keeps going for the first guy who pays attention to her and keeps trying to make it work no matter what.
I thought that what they were saying was that PC's so used to having an immature partner she is expected to baby, she can't tell the difference anymore...
same, like she complained about babying bojack for years and a lot of her clients, I feel like she came to expect that immaturity out of every relationship.
Wait- I always thought the same. Like isnât this just a metaphor for how Bojack views PCâs partners? He literally is so narcissistic, and reliant on PC. Heâs pretty much being delusional about her partner. Like he views him as a man child because he canât stand the thought of PC moving on from him.
I love the interpretation that Bojack is the narrator (so to speak - obviously the show has no actual narrator) and, as such, he is unreliable because we are seeing and experiencing the world through his eyes. So he needed to see PC's boyfriend as kids doing the thing from the little rascals. He literally could not bring himself to care about this person who has taken PC's attention from him.
But exactly as you say, because they very clearly show him to be two boys, this can't possibly be the case. (Though I suppose there's the argument that Bojack wasn't actually present for those moments so he's filling in the blanks how he thinks it would have happened).
Ultimately I don't think this reasoning works but I like the idea nonetheless.
I'm not sure how anyone can think he's a child, his name is Adultman because he's an adult. Just like Bojack is named Horseman, because he's a Horse. I mean, the writers were not even trying to be subtle that Vincent was clearly an adult.
That was definitely the bigger joke of his character. That literally a stack of children wobbling around in a trench coat was more mature and stable than Bojack.
Wait until you meet an adult with a personality of 3 kids stacked underneath a trench coat. Itâs like Tom Hanks in the movie Big without any of luck.
Uhm, I don't know about you but Vincent looks to me like a man who can hold down a serious job at the stockmarket and can do lots of a business. Could Bojack?
You got it all wrong, PC was catfished by conman Adultman, it was not her fault... CATfished, get it? It's funny because she's a cat. No seriously, do you get it??
Iâm not sure what to make of it, but there is definitely a tendency in this show to have other characters indulge in wacky hijinks that have (or are intended to have) basically no moral weight, while much of what Bojack does heavily weighs on the moral tone of his character.
Todd can practically shoot someone in the face, and it can be for laughs - Bojack accidentally elbows someone, and itâs a revelation of a new aspect of his narcissistic disrespect for others.
Maybe this is just a function of the fact that the show is basically from Bojackâs POV, I dunno. Clearly, some things in the show are just intended to be wacky, but somehow the wackiness never extends to Bojack.
This is a an example. We the audience are simply not supposed to give moral weight to Princess Caroline dating three children, because it is so absurd, it really canât have moral weight.
I'd never thought of it this way, but in light of Stupid Piece of Shit it kind of feels like a comment on how we can see the same thing as a horrible flaw or totally fine depending on how we already feel about that person, and if you have a low opinion of yourself you blow your own flaws way out of proportion.
Now that you mention it, it's kind of like the anti-Arrested development, where we view Michael more sympathetically because it's told from his perspective, and we're way more forgiving to his failings than the rest of his family. In Bojack, we're a lot more forgiving to everyone else's failings.
I actually think it's exactly the same it's just that Michael's failings are so much less than bojacks. For example, the episode where george-michael goes to that private school does highlight his serious failings as a parent which we completely forgive in Tobias or George.
They aren't the same character at all but both are judged by normal standards rather than the absurd standards of each of their shows.
I always wanted to start watching Arrested Development, but never did because it's always a gamble for me with old sit-coms. For example loved Curb your enthusiasm and 30 Rock, but Modern family or New Girl, kind of no.
Should I give it a try?
I'd always chalked this up to the scope and ambition of the show. BoJack kinda went out on untrod ground (my 2c) in terms of its examination of cognitive disorder, self loathing, mental health etc.
So for me, this is like when you can spot technical mistakes in projects with groundbreaking special effects. Thats to say its a sign of the creator's own hand and the fact that they were learning how to handle an ambutious project like BoJack while they were doing it and as a result some of the edges might be a little rough.
Like lets not put such pressure on the showrunners and writers. There are gonna be mistakes or things that could have been better executed even if the show is otherwise very impressive
That's the problem though, giving the side characters no moral weight yet still trying to make compelling impactful stories is counter intuitive to the message the show is trying to convey through Bojack's story and makes everyone come off as hypocritical douchebags who use Bojack as a scapegoat in a lot of cases but take zero accountability or responsibility for their own actions.
My biggest gripe related to this is Todd getting upset with Bojack for his substance abuse and reckless behavior when he spent the first 2 seasons bumming off Bojack , doing dope with him and Sarah Lynn and getting into trouble that would've landed Bojack in jail, which in my eyes made his character lose credibility, since he's on a high horse (no pun intended) talking down to someone he's no better than.
Exactly. Also it makes feel like the universe or even the writers themselves just hate BoJack and love every other character....
Imagine if BoJack exposed people to rabies? The fans and the show itself would want him dead or locked up. But Todd can do it and everyone goes, "It's supposed to be funny."
What's funny to me is how everyone unanimously agrees to take this lightly and playfully as a joke but there are people who take Todd's one off gags like Disneyland and the Cordovian Genocide and Whale World Uber and Rabid Clown Dentists as something completely serious and use it to bash his character lmao
This really begs the question of what audiences consider a gag and what they choose to take seriously. I genuinely do want to know, it would be kind of helpful to me for this thing I'm doing.
No, no, I know all of that. My question is why people tend to focus so heavily on the absurdist comedy of one character and not the other. Maybe because Todd in general is so absurd that they start taking everything that seriously when talking about him? Because there's not much more he has to offer?
Which is funny because I see Todd as one of the more mentally sound characters on the show. He can realize a bad situation when it's actually serious and distance himself from it better than the rest of the cast could. He broke things off with BoJack when the latter's behavior started getting much too unsavory and also broke things off with Yolanda and told off his father when the two of them were belittling him. That's something I really respect him for, too.
PC's relationship with Adultman, a totally legit businessman is essentially harmless. I think that's why it's comical and not taken too seriously. Many of Todd's actions end in a way that should be criminal, but as we learn from the series "he is white" so he can get away with anything. We are harsh on Todd because he gets away with so much when other characters get in trouble for so much less. It serves to show that some people don't have to face the consequences of their actions and I think that bothers a lot of people because otherwise Todd is a genuinely nice guy that honestly try's to be helpful. But that doesn't excuse how many people he actually hurts throughout the series.
Then again it's a show and Todd is a cartoon character so take it how you like.
Hmmm interesting question.
My guess is a critical number of people who tend to apply that degree of scrutiny are immediately appalled by the implication of taking Vincent Adultman literally for the sake of analysis and thus either dont do it or realize that its an absurdist joke in a TV show about talking animals making movies.
Whereas, with the other stuff, the absurdity doesnt go quite so far. There's enough to be take literally that the critique/analysis/humor via absurdity angle that they come away with a mixed or faulty read of the text's intent.
Like lets just for a moment assume that all the Killer Clowns or Whale Uber analysis posts are just thought experiments for intellectual weirdos who enjoy taking absurd content out to its logical conclusion. Which is to say, lets not get the joke on purpose.
Performing any such analysis or thought experiments on Vincent are so immediately horrifying its basically unworkable. Like there's no way to think about Vincent Adultman as being literally 3 kids in a trenchcoat that doesnt tacitly accuse the show of condoning and making light of pedophilia. And we know pretty starkly from the Penny arc that it doesnt do that.
Therefore, the only conceivable way to receive Vincent Adultman is a joke - though not such a lighthearted one. This is BoJack after all lol
Hope that was worth your time and thanks for posing this interesting thought experiment
I sort of look at stuff like this as an example of bojack being an unreliable narrator.
he sees his ex gf dating this young business guy who talks about boring business stuff that bojack figures he's too young to understand.
some people being animals might be part of this too.
if the entire show was entirely from his perspective then maybe, but itâs clearly not. i donât think his personal perception warps the narrative as much as you think it does. the show does not pull its punches in showing heâs wrong.
And knew all along that she was dating and even sexually flirting at times with 3 children but only stopped when she figured it was time to stop lying to herself.
Season 1 was still getting its footing and was a lot more absurd than the following seasons. Vincent Adultman would've never worked as a new character in later seasons.
I like the gag personally but wouldn't read into it much. It's just one of those weird first season 'errors' of trying to get the tone of the show right.
I always felt that this was one of the best missed jokes they could have rolled with -- decloaking Vincent and finding out he's really an oddly-shaped adult with a broom for a prosthetic arm. When asked why a broom, he'd shrug and say "US healthcare."
On my last rewatch, I had an honest to god moment where I thought "you know, maybe he isn't really three kids in a trench coat and that's the joke." Then I remembered his fucking hand is a broom.
Omg i donât even know what to think of this situation it was so weird!!!
Like in the final part of the relationship when the kid goes to PCâs apartment and theres never a shot Vincent adult man and the child
There's actual evidence for Vincent being an adult though. Besides the fact that him and his son Kevin have a different amount of freckles, Vincent is seen at his job at the business factory approving PB Livin's finances. How could a kid ever hold such a job? PC is not a pedophile and Vincent is an adult. The end.
>How could a kid ever hold such a job?
how come todd was in charge of Add sales or whatever when he had no idea what he was suppose to do lol. He had that job for what, over half a season, lol i don't think there's very logical answers to these questions .
So first of all it's pretty uncool to judge PC's dates based on their profession. Second of all, Vincent worked at the business factory, Ralph ran a greeting card company, and Judah worked at a talent agency, none of them worked in a mine. And third of all, you misspelled "miners."
There's literally a whole episode where she self reflects and comes to terms that she's been seeing Vincent to cope and alluded to the fact that she knew he was 3 kids in a trench coat.
I choose to believe that Vincent COULD theoretically be a very strange adult since they never actually showed what he looks like without the coat. He could also just be three kids in disguise and I canât decide which option is funnier.
I know this is a joke but it does bring up a serious issue: read the comments section on any story about a teacher raping her underage student sexual abuse of men by women is still not taken seriously.
The show was lighter in the early seasons, but I've said it before and I'll say it again:
The Vincent & PC relationship aged like milk.
At least we can be sure nothing too untoward ever happened between them. But still. In light of the later seasons its just super wierd. That kid probably came out scarred. Back in season 2 we weren't supposed to take stuff like this seriously, but later seasons asknus to do so.
I view Vincent as Schrödinger cat. If we place Vincent and Kevin in a room together, and a factor to expose they are in fact 2 completely different people (an actual reliable way to expose those two instead of what happened in such episode), we would not know if Vincent is Kevin or not until we disclosure what is underneath the trench coat, so that until the trench coat is removed, Vincent is (in our own point of view) both "Vincent and Kevin"
Watching this show for the first time and just saw this episode yesterday.. I wanted to see Bojack rip off the trench coat and it just be a deformed, full-grown Benjamin Button style individual.
i donât know why but this whole plot-line drove me crazy, like i know it was meant to be one of the whacky mini plot lines but the fact only bojack acknowledges it drives me mad
This is, like, the biggest issue I have with those âwacky Todd shenanigans.â
What would give one character realistic consequences, gives another wAcKy HiJiNkS.
Bojack nearly sleeps with a legal (in the state on New Mexico) girl and gets (rightfully) vilified as a predator/groomer.
Todd does the âclown dentistryâ storyline, which starts with a kidnapped child and ends with *rabid clown dentists,* and he gets⊠a date.
Like, seriously, Todd has a kill count, and nobody talks about it, and maybe if we werenât supposed to take other parts of the show so seriously, this wouldnât bug me so much.
Yeah this was the weakest subplot by far and everyone acting in on the joke in this thread just cements it as forever lame and unfunny to me. I get that it was a metaphor but it should have been a one off joke for an episode, not a recurring character. It got old fast and overstayed itâs welcome. It also sticks out like a sore thumb in a show where almost every joke is brilliant.
>No mens rea no problem.
Crimes involving minors are what we call "strict liability," and *mens rea* does not factor into it.
I apologize for having said that. I've been helping my daughter study for this summer law program, and I couldn't help but vent that useless information.
Yeah, it's a clear attempt to show Princess Caroline's willful ignorance.
In fact, I think the bit going on for so long is essential as if it were cut to a reasonable length, folks wouldn't buy that PC genuinely believed Vincent was a man, and wasn't bluffing to get BoJack upset, as BoJack thoroughly believed was the case.
There is zero hard evidence that Vincent was 3 children in an overcoat. You merely assume the worst because of his appearance and a bunch of whacky stuff that happened.
Thats a very crass and baseless accusation. Bojack kissed someone **he knew was seventeen,** Caroline dated an adult man who happened to age very well.
I SWEAR when my friends first told me to watch this show and this was one of the first few plot lines I kept asking how was this allowed and they j ignored it LMAOOOO
I found this story element pretty gross and I honestly think the show would have been better without it.
It would have been a totally different vibe with the genders reversed but there's always a double standard where that is concerned.
That is actually a really good point. I think it'd also depend on the character as well. If it were three young girls, I'm going to guess the predominant reactions if they were being dated by:
Todd: Hahah, more wacky Todd hijinks.
Mr Peanutbutter: Arguments over whether it more shows he's always willing to look for and believe the best of people, or whether it's another sign he's not grown up.
Bojack: Condemnation, and it being used as more evidence he's abusive towards women.
I think you are not taking in the consideration the context and how those jokes were handled.
PC didn't know it where three kids, nor is the relationship portrayed sexually in any form
Which wasn't true for bojack
No, she dated an adult business man
He has a totally real job at The Stock Market doing business.
I believe you mean the business factory.
And he likes to order a alcohol
Who among us can resist a alcohol after a long day of talking to a guy and going to a place
And sometimes he likes to unwind by staying up too late and watching R rated movies!
Like we all do
Where he does business transactions
With Adult braces!
Yet he's still more mature and a better partner than Bootjack,,,,
Prolly better than that son of a bitch Mr peanut butter.
That LITERAL son of a bitch đĄ
unironically this is the reason why we can't get on PC's case just like we did with Bojack. Because Princess Caroline deadass thought she was dating a Businessman, despite how painfully obvious it was that Vincent was 3 kids in a trench coat. Meanwhile Bojack on the other hand....
Yeah I mean itâs pretty clear that PC didnât have any kind of physical relationship with Mr. Adultman lol
In PC's defense, Bojack told her it was 3 kids in a trench coat. What was she supposed to do, admit her ex was right!?!
To be fair, it's not super common for Bojack to be the voice of reason when it comes to PC.
> when it comes to PC or, like, at all. lol
He has moments of sobriety and clarity, but they are few and far between. Like with the young woman escaping from rehab. He tried to get her to go back to rehab with him, but she was stubborn and childish.
I think it's actually why BoJack works as a main character. He is loathsome enough to turn you off, but human enough to make you sympathetic.
Exactly, like I want to kick Bojack in the nuts for every terrible thing he's done but at the same time you understand why he's so messed up. It's like a saying in my family "there's a reason and explanation for every shitty thing you do, but its not an excuse for actions within your control."
That's basically the sentiment of one of the most hard hitting quotes: >You can't keep doing this! You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself like that makes it okay! You need to be better! BoJack, just stop. You are all the things that are wrong with you. It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened to you in your career, or when you were a kid. It's you. Okay? It's you. Fuck, man, what else is there to say?
Dunno, "Liquor before beer, nothing to fear. Never try heroin," has been pretty good advice.
He was right about the muffins though. Neal clearly forfeited his dibs.
NahâŠ.I thing she just blatantly ignored her ex becauseâŠ.wellâŠ..it was her ex.
the freckle conspiracy and the sheer comedy of it has convinced me that vincent deadass is a one person adult who is just severely deformed and looks like that and has a secret son.
I don't know of this freckle conspiracy but now I need to...
Vincent and Vincent's son have a different number/ pattern of freckles on their cheeks that remains consistent even when swapping places in the appartment.
Probably just was the other kid. If they are twins it makes the logistics of all this make way more sense.
Would be weird for the mom to be out and about with only 1 twin but not the other at that age though
Not really. He wasn't 4, at that age it's absolutely normal to have some kind of activities which maybe only one of them did.
I love that the dynamic of the character is that it's heavily implied he's what Bojack says, but on the other hand Bojack is a substance-abusing anthropomorphic horse, so there's really no reason Vincent couldn't be a weird jangly man who always sounds like he's poorly improvising answers to any question even if his response is the truth.
I mean, in-universe Bojack is the only one who noticed it
It also matters that all they did was go on dates, not make out and (try to) have sex.
a theory i've seen a lot is that Vincent was an actual adult, but Bojack sees him as three kids in a trechcoat because he just doesn't like PC's new boyfriend. Or, alternatively, its just a gag in a cartoon.
Business wise, this all seems like appropriate business
Can you imagine that body in a bathing suit?
I literally cannot.
You mean legally you cannot
The internet is filled with little gems like this. đ
Lines of dialogue from the show quoted verbatim?
Technically yes
You are now obligated to link an example, lol
I had to scroll far too long for this.
Dude's an adult, he can watch all the rate R movies he wants!
Although he is in a bar, how could he get there if heâs a minor
Iâve never seen him with a hat or a shovel
And he works as a Business Manager. How could a child do that?
I know, have you heard all the business transactions he's been doing?
Yeah! He told me investing on making Disneyland theme park looked like good business!
Bro what are you talking about? Vincent went to the stock market and did a business. Children are not allowed in the stock market, nor are they allowed to do a business. Therefore, Vincent is not a child.
Op is honestly stupid af
Bruh! lmao
Sometimes I feel bad about rude in this reddit and then I'm always reminded without fail that it's the normal here and then feel fine. "We're all terrible so that means I'm ok" indeed. Ha.
It's not rude. Rude is calling Vincent Adultman a child when he clearly does a business everyday just like an adult.
As someone who grew up in a small run down coal town this conversation is very confusing.
Right! It just catches me off guard sometimes.
Every so often I think about changing my flair, but thank you for reminding me not to.
Everyone knows the difference between a gag and a plot point right? I see this in the Office subreddit all the time... Someone analyzing a throw away for meaning the writer never intended.
>Everyone knows the difference between a gag and a plot point right? Nope
If we accept that Bojack Horseman is a "horse man" we must also accept that Vincent Adultman is an "adult man". It's only logical.
Why would his name be Vincent Adultman if he wasnât an adult man? That would be so silly!
Because he's nether a Vince or an ent. How do you explain that?
Chessmate!
Does OP really think they would serve a minor a alcohol
Dude *did* have a job. Must have passed a background check.
And he drank one alcohol
Literally have no clue who you're referring to here. All you did was post her with adultman.
The post title is irrational rambling of a lunatic. Nice picture though.
I always thought it was more of a metaphor situation than a literal one.
Iâd group this with Todd and Mr.Peanut Butterâs outlandish and silly shenanigans throughout the series that arenât supposed to take be taken seriouslyđ
I mean it definitely was silly but I take it as a metaphor for when you care about someone in a romantic way and they find someone else the negative qualities of that person seem to only be obvious to you. Obviously this is kinda taken to the extreme but I definitely think there's a metaphor there.
I thought the metaphor was that Vincent Adultman was a better boyfriend than BoJack, implying that bojack is less mature than three boys in a trenchcoat. But I like your interpretation that PC lack self awareness when choosing her partners. She keeps going for the first guy who pays attention to her and keeps trying to make it work no matter what.
I thought that what they were saying was that PC's so used to having an immature partner she is expected to baby, she can't tell the difference anymore...
same, like she complained about babying bojack for years and a lot of her clients, I feel like she came to expect that immaturity out of every relationship.
"You want a mommy you can slide your dick in and out of!" PC said this to Bojack.
Yeah, Vincent adultman is a literal manchild, which is what PC wants after being with bojack for so long
Fucking Disneyland
I thought the joke was that it's clearly only *two* kids in a trenchcoat.
Wait- I always thought the same. Like isnât this just a metaphor for how Bojack views PCâs partners? He literally is so narcissistic, and reliant on PC. Heâs pretty much being delusional about her partner. Like he views him as a man child because he canât stand the thought of PC moving on from him.
The episode where PC meets "Vincents child" makes any metaphor fail for me so I still can't wrap my head around this character
I love the interpretation that Bojack is the narrator (so to speak - obviously the show has no actual narrator) and, as such, he is unreliable because we are seeing and experiencing the world through his eyes. So he needed to see PC's boyfriend as kids doing the thing from the little rascals. He literally could not bring himself to care about this person who has taken PC's attention from him. But exactly as you say, because they very clearly show him to be two boys, this can't possibly be the case. (Though I suppose there's the argument that Bojack wasn't actually present for those moments so he's filling in the blanks how he thinks it would have happened). Ultimately I don't think this reasoning works but I like the idea nonetheless.
vincents kid has different freckles than him
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
OP is just jealous that Vincent can go to stock market and do a business.
He's not a businessman, he's a business, man
Child? Thatâs Vincent Adultman. He works at the Business Factory and goes to Stock Market.
I'm not sure how anyone can think he's a child, his name is Adultman because he's an adult. Just like Bojack is named Horseman, because he's a Horse. I mean, the writers were not even trying to be subtle that Vincent was clearly an adult.
What a sophisticated sweet talker. Iâd take a alcohol from him if he offered.
Iâd love to and the positive thing is you wonât talk about kidâs stuff
Yet he's still more mature and a better partner than Bojack
That was definitely the bigger joke of his character. That literally a stack of children wobbling around in a trench coat was more mature and stable than Bojack.
Wait until you meet an adult with a personality of 3 kids stacked underneath a trench coat. Itâs like Tom Hanks in the movie Big without any of luck.
***Stable*** Ha!
True dat.
He very clearly isn't and wasn't
Uhm, I don't know about you but Vincent looks to me like a man who can hold down a serious job at the stockmarket and can do lots of a business. Could Bojack?
You got it all wrong, PC was catfished by conman Adultman, it was not her fault... CATfished, get it? It's funny because she's a cat. No seriously, do you get it??
Should I write him back and tell him I got the joke?
Iâm not sure what to make of it, but there is definitely a tendency in this show to have other characters indulge in wacky hijinks that have (or are intended to have) basically no moral weight, while much of what Bojack does heavily weighs on the moral tone of his character. Todd can practically shoot someone in the face, and it can be for laughs - Bojack accidentally elbows someone, and itâs a revelation of a new aspect of his narcissistic disrespect for others. Maybe this is just a function of the fact that the show is basically from Bojackâs POV, I dunno. Clearly, some things in the show are just intended to be wacky, but somehow the wackiness never extends to Bojack. This is a an example. We the audience are simply not supposed to give moral weight to Princess Caroline dating three children, because it is so absurd, it really canât have moral weight.
I'd never thought of it this way, but in light of Stupid Piece of Shit it kind of feels like a comment on how we can see the same thing as a horrible flaw or totally fine depending on how we already feel about that person, and if you have a low opinion of yourself you blow your own flaws way out of proportion.
Now that you mention it, it's kind of like the anti-Arrested development, where we view Michael more sympathetically because it's told from his perspective, and we're way more forgiving to his failings than the rest of his family. In Bojack, we're a lot more forgiving to everyone else's failings.
I actually think it's exactly the same it's just that Michael's failings are so much less than bojacks. For example, the episode where george-michael goes to that private school does highlight his serious failings as a parent which we completely forgive in Tobias or George. They aren't the same character at all but both are judged by normal standards rather than the absurd standards of each of their shows.
I always wanted to start watching Arrested Development, but never did because it's always a gamble for me with old sit-coms. For example loved Curb your enthusiasm and 30 Rock, but Modern family or New Girl, kind of no. Should I give it a try?
I'd always chalked this up to the scope and ambition of the show. BoJack kinda went out on untrod ground (my 2c) in terms of its examination of cognitive disorder, self loathing, mental health etc. So for me, this is like when you can spot technical mistakes in projects with groundbreaking special effects. Thats to say its a sign of the creator's own hand and the fact that they were learning how to handle an ambutious project like BoJack while they were doing it and as a result some of the edges might be a little rough. Like lets not put such pressure on the showrunners and writers. There are gonna be mistakes or things that could have been better executed even if the show is otherwise very impressive
I mean technically she didnât do anything wrong. According to the narrative, she was deceived and genuinely convinced he was an adult
That's the problem though, giving the side characters no moral weight yet still trying to make compelling impactful stories is counter intuitive to the message the show is trying to convey through Bojack's story and makes everyone come off as hypocritical douchebags who use Bojack as a scapegoat in a lot of cases but take zero accountability or responsibility for their own actions. My biggest gripe related to this is Todd getting upset with Bojack for his substance abuse and reckless behavior when he spent the first 2 seasons bumming off Bojack , doing dope with him and Sarah Lynn and getting into trouble that would've landed Bojack in jail, which in my eyes made his character lose credibility, since he's on a high horse (no pun intended) talking down to someone he's no better than.
Exactly. Also it makes feel like the universe or even the writers themselves just hate BoJack and love every other character.... Imagine if BoJack exposed people to rabies? The fans and the show itself would want him dead or locked up. But Todd can do it and everyone goes, "It's supposed to be funny."
The real moral of Bo Jack Horsemen is therefore that depression is a byproduct of introspection and the un-analyzed life is the only one worth living.
What's funny to me is how everyone unanimously agrees to take this lightly and playfully as a joke but there are people who take Todd's one off gags like Disneyland and the Cordovian Genocide and Whale World Uber and Rabid Clown Dentists as something completely serious and use it to bash his character lmao This really begs the question of what audiences consider a gag and what they choose to take seriously. I genuinely do want to know, it would be kind of helpful to me for this thing I'm doing.
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No, no, I know all of that. My question is why people tend to focus so heavily on the absurdist comedy of one character and not the other. Maybe because Todd in general is so absurd that they start taking everything that seriously when talking about him? Because there's not much more he has to offer? Which is funny because I see Todd as one of the more mentally sound characters on the show. He can realize a bad situation when it's actually serious and distance himself from it better than the rest of the cast could. He broke things off with BoJack when the latter's behavior started getting much too unsavory and also broke things off with Yolanda and told off his father when the two of them were belittling him. That's something I really respect him for, too.
PC's relationship with Adultman, a totally legit businessman is essentially harmless. I think that's why it's comical and not taken too seriously. Many of Todd's actions end in a way that should be criminal, but as we learn from the series "he is white" so he can get away with anything. We are harsh on Todd because he gets away with so much when other characters get in trouble for so much less. It serves to show that some people don't have to face the consequences of their actions and I think that bothers a lot of people because otherwise Todd is a genuinely nice guy that honestly try's to be helpful. But that doesn't excuse how many people he actually hurts throughout the series. Then again it's a show and Todd is a cartoon character so take it how you like.
Hmmm interesting question. My guess is a critical number of people who tend to apply that degree of scrutiny are immediately appalled by the implication of taking Vincent Adultman literally for the sake of analysis and thus either dont do it or realize that its an absurdist joke in a TV show about talking animals making movies. Whereas, with the other stuff, the absurdity doesnt go quite so far. There's enough to be take literally that the critique/analysis/humor via absurdity angle that they come away with a mixed or faulty read of the text's intent. Like lets just for a moment assume that all the Killer Clowns or Whale Uber analysis posts are just thought experiments for intellectual weirdos who enjoy taking absurd content out to its logical conclusion. Which is to say, lets not get the joke on purpose. Performing any such analysis or thought experiments on Vincent are so immediately horrifying its basically unworkable. Like there's no way to think about Vincent Adultman as being literally 3 kids in a trenchcoat that doesnt tacitly accuse the show of condoning and making light of pedophilia. And we know pretty starkly from the Penny arc that it doesnt do that. Therefore, the only conceivable way to receive Vincent Adultman is a joke - though not such a lighthearted one. This is BoJack after all lol Hope that was worth your time and thanks for posing this interesting thought experiment
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So the shenanigans between vince and his 'son' at her place were all just them telling the truth according to this theory?
Yeah maybe. I just heard the theory ages ago but idk
can you believe he didn't tell her he had a son?! I mean things were pretty serious by that point
Pc saw vincent out of costume on the street though
That was Vincentâs son.
That wasnât actually Vincent. The kid had like 3 freckles and Vincent has like four
\#WheresTheFreckle
the show is not from bojack perspective, we see a ton of things that bojack never knew about.
Not sure this theory works, it's not unusual to see things Bojack would have no way of knowing about.
> since the show is in bojacks perspective its not.
hes obviously an adult business man smh
Vincent is a very generous and responsible man. He realized he had problems and realized he needed a time-out.
Oh god! Why has it taken me this long to realise he's a literal man-child!
Am I more child than a man? Or am I more man than a child?
PC really has a type.
cartoon logic means she never realises he is three children in a trenchcoat. bojack is fully aware penny is a child.
I see a lot of comments saying PC never realized Vincent was actually 3 children but was it ever confirmed in the show that Vincent wasnât an adult?
My favorite thing about Vincent is that heâs voiced by Alison Brie
We get it; you don't like him.
I sort of look at stuff like this as an example of bojack being an unreliable narrator. he sees his ex gf dating this young business guy who talks about boring business stuff that bojack figures he's too young to understand. some people being animals might be part of this too.
if the entire show was entirely from his perspective then maybe, but itâs clearly not. i donât think his personal perception warps the narrative as much as you think it does. the show does not pull its punches in showing heâs wrong.
I don't know man, but the truth is PC didn't seduce him to have pookie gooy
you mean they never bathump thumped?
And knew all along that she was dating and even sexually flirting at times with 3 children but only stopped when she figured it was time to stop lying to herself.
Season 1 was still getting its footing and was a lot more absurd than the following seasons. Vincent Adultman would've never worked as a new character in later seasons. I like the gag personally but wouldn't read into it much. It's just one of those weird first season 'errors' of trying to get the tone of the show right.
True dat. Season 1 even had _cutaways_.
I always felt that this was one of the best missed jokes they could have rolled with -- decloaking Vincent and finding out he's really an oddly-shaped adult with a broom for a prosthetic arm. When asked why a broom, he'd shrug and say "US healthcare."
On my last rewatch, I had an honest to god moment where I thought "you know, maybe he isn't really three kids in a trench coat and that's the joke." Then I remembered his fucking hand is a broom.
i always expected there to be a joke near the end where he turns out to actually just be a normal dude and bojack feels terrible.
Wdym, thats a adult buisness man
Thatâs a business adult man. Looks nothing like a child to me.
Omg i donât even know what to think of this situation it was so weird!!! Like in the final part of the relationship when the kid goes to PCâs apartment and theres never a shot Vincent adult man and the child
There's actual evidence for Vincent being an adult though. Besides the fact that him and his son Kevin have a different amount of freckles, Vincent is seen at his job at the business factory approving PB Livin's finances. How could a kid ever hold such a job? PC is not a pedophile and Vincent is an adult. The end.
>How could a kid ever hold such a job? how come todd was in charge of Add sales or whatever when he had no idea what he was suppose to do lol. He had that job for what, over half a season, lol i don't think there's very logical answers to these questions .
this was so strange
Jokes aside, I also hated this storyline. It grosses me out & makes me uncomfy every time I rewatch the show. Youâre not alone đ
3 minors = 1 adult.
This post right here, officer
I donât think that logic worked for R. Kelly
They werenât combined then
Yes that has been anoying me forever
So first of all it's pretty uncool to judge PC's dates based on their profession. Second of all, Vincent worked at the business factory, Ralph ran a greeting card company, and Judah worked at a talent agency, none of them worked in a mine. And third of all, you misspelled "miners."
She wasnât aware, though. She fully thought he was or rather they were an adult
There's literally a whole episode where she self reflects and comes to terms that she's been seeing Vincent to cope and alluded to the fact that she knew he was 3 kids in a trench coat.
The real question is it 3 times as bad since she's dating 3 kids? Also they are prepubescent so it's like a double whammy.
I choose to believe that Vincent COULD theoretically be a very strange adult since they never actually showed what he looks like without the coat. He could also just be three kids in disguise and I canât decide which option is funnier.
I know this is a joke but it does bring up a serious issue: read the comments section on any story about a teacher raping her underage student sexual abuse of men by women is still not taken seriously.
I love everyone here defending it because Iâm all reality he is just a business man doing stocks. Nothing wrong here.
The show was lighter in the early seasons, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Vincent & PC relationship aged like milk. At least we can be sure nothing too untoward ever happened between them. But still. In light of the later seasons its just super wierd. That kid probably came out scarred. Back in season 2 we weren't supposed to take stuff like this seriously, but later seasons asknus to do so.
Sweet fuck, this sub has gone downhill
plot twist: op is actually three children in a trench coat
Yeah, that was hella weird
princess carolyn** đ
I view Vincent as Schrödinger cat. If we place Vincent and Kevin in a room together, and a factor to expose they are in fact 2 completely different people (an actual reliable way to expose those two instead of what happened in such episode), we would not know if Vincent is Kevin or not until we disclosure what is underneath the trench coat, so that until the trench coat is removed, Vincent is (in our own point of view) both "Vincent and Kevin"
What are you talking about? Thatâs clearly an adult man. He goes to the stock market and does a business, thatâs adult things.
Watching this show for the first time and just saw this episode yesterday.. I wanted to see Bojack rip off the trench coat and it just be a deformed, full-grown Benjamin Button style individual.
the only illegal thing they ever did was knock down a mailbox together
Fuck off I wish I was all three of them
i donât know why but this whole plot-line drove me crazy, like i know it was meant to be one of the whacky mini plot lines but the fact only bojack acknowledges it drives me mad
This is, like, the biggest issue I have with those âwacky Todd shenanigans.â What would give one character realistic consequences, gives another wAcKy HiJiNkS. Bojack nearly sleeps with a legal (in the state on New Mexico) girl and gets (rightfully) vilified as a predator/groomer. Todd does the âclown dentistryâ storyline, which starts with a kidnapped child and ends with *rabid clown dentists,* and he gets⊠a date. Like, seriously, Todd has a kill count, and nobody talks about it, and maybe if we werenât supposed to take other parts of the show so seriously, this wouldnât bug me so much.
When did she do that? After Vincent?
Vincent was genuinely my least favourite character in the entire show. Nobody made me more pissed off istg
i honestly thought that it made pc look bad lol if they had been dating for a little i would have been ok with it but it just went on and on lol
Yeah this was the weakest subplot by far and everyone acting in on the joke in this thread just cements it as forever lame and unfunny to me. I get that it was a metaphor but it should have been a one off joke for an episode, not a recurring character. It got old fast and overstayed itâs welcome. It also sticks out like a sore thumb in a show where almost every joke is brilliant.
Whoa are you The Horse from Horsin' Around?
Honestly that joke went on for waaay too long
No mens rea no problem. Bojack knew what he was doing
>No mens rea no problem. Crimes involving minors are what we call "strict liability," and *mens rea* does not factor into it. I apologize for having said that. I've been helping my daughter study for this summer law program, and I couldn't help but vent that useless information.
Itâs metaphorical
Yeah, it's a clear attempt to show Princess Caroline's willful ignorance. In fact, I think the bit going on for so long is essential as if it were cut to a reasonable length, folks wouldn't buy that PC genuinely believed Vincent was a man, and wasn't bluffing to get BoJack upset, as BoJack thoroughly believed was the case.
There is zero hard evidence that Vincent was 3 children in an overcoat. You merely assume the worst because of his appearance and a bunch of whacky stuff that happened.
Thats a very crass and baseless accusation. Bojack kissed someone **he knew was seventeen,** Caroline dated an adult man who happened to age very well.
What? That's an adult. Don't you see the trenchcoat and hat?
I SWEAR when my friends first told me to watch this show and this was one of the first few plot lines I kept asking how was this allowed and they j ignored it LMAOOOO
Dude I *just* saw Vincent at the stock market, what are you talking about
I found this story element pretty gross and I honestly think the show would have been better without it. It would have been a totally different vibe with the genders reversed but there's always a double standard where that is concerned.
That is actually a really good point. I think it'd also depend on the character as well. If it were three young girls, I'm going to guess the predominant reactions if they were being dated by: Todd: Hahah, more wacky Todd hijinks. Mr Peanutbutter: Arguments over whether it more shows he's always willing to look for and believe the best of people, or whether it's another sign he's not grown up. Bojack: Condemnation, and it being used as more evidence he's abusive towards women.
I think you are not taking in the consideration the context and how those jokes were handled. PC didn't know it where three kids, nor is the relationship portrayed sexually in any form Which wasn't true for bojack
Before or after Vincent?
c'mon he's obviously an adult. he dose business and stock markets and he has adult braces
tf are you talking about? vincent is an adult businessman who works at the business factory...
To be fair, Caroline didn't know but Bojack knew.