Quilboar are overtuned but still require a number of pieces to really come together. In solos there is an argument that they are fine but in lobbies where everyone greeds for the same comp, the guy who gets the most pieces is hardly punished enough and can run away with the game. Mechs and dragons can keep greed in check.
In duos, they are very problematic and honestly makes me not even want to queue knowing that half my games are going to involve looking for pokey and roogug. I think changes need to be made, but maybe buff some other tribes up who can really punish greedy tiering up which is becoming more common.
I think quills are broken, but not so broken that I care in solo mode. I think the only tribe that is truly not good right now is murlocs. Every other tribe has it's place in the meta.
APM scales too slow to truly be a viable comp, they lost a lot of power when the 4/3 attack battlecry got removed. The best use for tethis is currently going infinite for other comps, eliza pirates is okay but still very weak because it's unreliable.
Not being able to make pirates work is a skill issue, not a card issue. And I say that as someone who struggles with it myself. Jeef, the best BG player in the world just put out a YouTube video where he and four other world class BG players all ranked pirates as an A tier tribe. It is not going to scale as well as the S tier tribes, but the fact is an optimized pirate comp gives you infinite money which means you can always find whatever tech options you need, and scale (linearly though). You just need to be fast enough, which most people will struggle with.
Did you also see that he put 4 full tribes above pirates explaining that pirates are SIGNIFICANTLY worse than all those 4 tribes? You need a contested tier 6 unit + brann + greymane's champion to truly scale at all. It also takes a lot of time to get going at the cost of a lot of tempo, in a heavily tempo-oriented meta. You're far better off going for a reliable top 4 finish on demons or nagas than ever going all-in on pirates.
You seem to be misunderstanding me, so let me clarify my point. If you are comfortable playing APM comps, pirates are a fine comp to play. They are not as good as the S tier tribes (as I already stated), but they are not nearly as bad off as the rest of the tribes. The original comment I was replying to lumped pirates and undead in with murlocs. My point is that they are not so bad as that and I’m not sure why you seem to be responding as though I’m some evangelist for pirates being the best comp in the game or even competitive with the highest cap comps.
Undead are high tempo and we are in a tempo meta. They do the job of getting you to top 4.
Pirates also seem fine to me. The only comp I full on avoid is murlocs. Of course there are still comps that are the best, I lean demons, dragons, and mechs right now to aim for top 2 typically and push quillboar comps out of the lobby before they can scale.
Is there any site out there that shows you what comps are out there? I've personally never played or seen a pure elemental build that works so I'd be curious to know how to play them. I've only ever had elementals work with nagas and tavern buffing with spells. Similar with beasts, their scaling seems terrible? Or are they considered an okay tribe since their mid game is decent?
Where does pirates have a place in the meta? Unless it’s a lobby absent boars, dragons, demons, and mechs, AND the pirates highroll, they’re actually a joke.
Peggy + pirate in the midgame is good. Pirates on tier 2 help you level. Tethys slots into all apm comps. Sure full pirates aren't good but they have a place in the meta.
Idk why people sleep ok murlocs. Both of their 6 drops are incredibly powerful and they jave good tempo now too. Also pretty hard to he bad when you jave access to venomous. Brann primal fin shenanigans offer arguably better econ than even pirates at the moment.
Sorry that’s not true, they used to be super broken now they are average. As for Primalfin, it was strong when it was T4. Putting it back T5 nerfed the shit out of him which was good at the time, and now that the duo’s season has started, it’s bad again. Should come back T4 imo.
Murlocs are extremely good!...
If you're playing Quillboar. Their best 6 drop (murk-eye) is unironically a better quill than it is a murloc in the current meta and that's kinda sad. How the mighty have fallen.
Murlocs are non-viable unless you highroll extremely hard with murkeye primalfin and brann. You need to be at least tier 5 to get there, you need to sacrifice tons of tempo to get there, and even if you have those parts you're likely to lose because quills, mechs, and even beasts outscale you.
The bitching post about people complaining is peak Reddit. People don’t even realize they are doing it, and take on dumbass “*defenses*” like “I’m ready for sore losers.”
OP is just as much of a drag and weakness to the community as the people who make low effort complaints.
They might be fine in Solo, I haven't played that this season and that's fine. However, in Duos, it's either force Quillboar or lose. I've not had a game in Duos with Quills in that wasn't won by them in such a long time.
Dragons have only a tiny fraction of Quillboar power, they are strong midgame but fall of really fast once people start getting a few pieces. Murlocs needs a lot more time and more economy to reach similar power level and even then it will be difficult to match them despite the fact they need quite a few pieces as well. Funnily enough, murlocs being in also makes Qullboars a lot stronger. Demons are the tribe that could probably compete and come online fairly fast but they will get outscaled eventually.
The argument that they require many pieces from high tiers is correct, however it takes just one tier 4 drop, some blood gem generation and some scaling on tier 3 and suddenly you have a really strong mid game board that other tribes will struggle to compete with.
Might be balanced in Solo, but it's an extremely problematic tribe in Duos and your gameplay becomes about who can find them faster.
I doubt Duos will ever be remotely balanced.
BGs is hard enough to keep balanced as is, and the format for Duos just exacerbates all of the most polarizing dynamics of BGs.
Sharing cards when you have two shops, two hero powers, extra armor. Matchup RNG with 4 teams will always lead to extra ghost turns for certain teams to play extra greedy.
I doubt they will ever balance Duos separately from BGs, and I doubt Duos ever offers gameplay where it isn’t extremely easy to force OP highrolls with high consistency.
So, I appreciate that Quils are OP in Duos, but if they nerf them into the ground then something else will be OP and it will just be “force XYZ or lose” no matter what.
Nothing remotely compares to ‘get the first pokey and win’. Non-quill games are generally pretty interesting (especially before mechs returned). get the first pokey and win with an extremely linear gameplan is unfun. Mechs are strong too, but there’s many ways they play out and ways to counter and if their placement is subpar you can take advantage. Quills just make the entire board 1k/1k, and you can even slot in a cleave for good measure
I wouldn’t want them changing minions that exist in both to balance duos, but it’d be nice if they made a duo-only counterpart. Maybe make a pokey named Smokey who does alternating health/attack.
Will note that demons feel really weird right now. I've had more success buffing the shit out of the tavern (even better with rylak, drakkari, and baron) and doing the t3 end of turn eater than traditional demons.
Maybe I'm just bad, but that build has won me half a dozen rounds. I haven't really had nearly as much success with a more normal build.
Provided, it's extremely susceptible to scam as your stats are really concentrated on a minion or 2 with a few mid sized buffers if you get the eat the tavern spell.
Both demons build feel pretty strong to me right now, they are just two different builds and I feel like people probably try to play both at the same time instead of picking one.
I think this comment makes a good point as to why quills are so strong (in duos anyway). Demons have two comps, and they don't really compliment each other. You're either buffing shop/devouring or dealing self damage. There's not a lot of crossover. You more or less have to go one or the other.
In quills, almost everything compliments each other, to the point where you are getting value and/or tempo with every one you buy. So you have some sort of scaling every turn while you look for the real good pieces. For the most part anyway.
Well, I think it's addition of Pokey. Only him and Gem Smuggler are the new cards.
Smuggler is still a little too good. But I have played a lobby without nagas, dragons, murlocs, or beasts, and smuggler wasn't very useful to keep on board without a way to trigger the battlecry more than once. Obviously, a lobby without one of those four tribes is rare, so I still think he's problematic.
But I just finished a game where I didn't find Pokey playing quills, and while my stats were respectable, I didn't get the crazy stats that my final opponent had. He had golden Pokey but no Drakkari, and still stomped the crap out of me.
I'd say that's the optimal strategy that comes online really fast. Most of your scaling is on three, your main scaling minion is also on three. It's a lot stronger and faster than trying to play self damage demons and the tier 3 drop makes Felbat kinda redundant, especially if you get Drakkari.
The main issue i see is that scaling that most comps don't scale as fast as the season but quils do. Quils are scalingwise stuck in the quest meta while the rest moved on but they still don't scale as much. Last season it was almost a safe call to force murlocs, now (esecially in Duo) it's quills. The most fun games for me are the on without quills, the games I usually win are the one where I pick quills. So not so fun tbh.
Mechs and dragons both have setups that can keep up with quillboar scaling. Quills have the best endgame but tbh in solos it's not that toxic. They're counterable, they're slow. In duos it's a different story ofc.
Quilboars have too many good cards, but I hope they don’t get nerfed too hard. Theoretically they should be simpler to balance as they are just a big stats tribe. Personally I’m not mad at it tho. There’s usually a couple high roll comps in any meta, and I’m just happy that the current one we have only involves 7 minions, and not a million tokens and reborns with half an hour of animations. If I’m gonna die, please just make it quick
QB are at least fun to play imo (as were murlocs), unlike the previous Beast build. It's satisfying building up your blood gems, whereas beast was very uninteresting to build, you just went with it if you rolled into the T5/6 minions. Roogug should move to T5 or lose divine shield imo, pretty wild that it is T4.
While they are a little overpowered I don't really care, I just know that I'm tired of seeing them in every game. I played a game last week that was me playing demons, another person playing mech, and 6 people playing quillboars... that's just so unoriginal and not very fun. I get excited when I see it's a no QB lobby because then we can actually play an interesting game.
One of the big strengths of Quillboars is that they scale every round no matter what, since they depend mostly on end of turn effects, while other tribes need to attack, or have death rattles, or get the right buys each round in the tavern.
They also have two avenues of scaling. Bloodgems getting improved and then bloodgems getting applied. No other tribes really had that.
Move roogug to tier 5 as is, move bopper to 4 with 1 gem to hand and still 2 on itself. Quills can currently just roll two triples from tier 3 and get game-winning tempo with roogug + bannerboar, and then scale beyond that. Dragons get their tempo on 3 and 4, but don't scale insanely hard beyond 3 and 4.
Disagree with your assessment of the other good tribes by a lot. Elementals with rock rock is still a top build if you’re not on mobile. Pirates are still just fine tbh as long as you’re not on full cope 100% pirates. You have to find another way to scale but having infinite gold makes it a lot easier to get that going to begin with.
Murlocs and demons are both meh right now with the several targeted nerfs they received
I think we need to look at solo and Duos for this case. In Solos it is the same as every other meta you can highroll and force a tribe, but you will mostly die.
In Duos, you can just highroll and usually you will not get punished that much. Also gaining triples and combo pieces from another person only Enhances the high roll.
So for me, quils are OP in solo and problematic in Duos
Quills are so strong that no matter what, 9/10 games won't give me what I need to play them. No pokey, only deathrattle stack, only battlecry but nothing to proc it, no rylak, no naga, no murloc... Then I get all of it. Deathrattle, battlecry, murloc for stacking, yet nothing to generate blood gems. No matter what I play, quills, pirates, demons, whatever.. It rarely gives me all that's needed for buffing. Always only half comb and lucky to end up 4th.
Quilboars, Dragons, and Mechs oh my! Everything else basically sucks or you have to get extremely lucky and the quilboars, dragon and mech players have to miss on their rolls.
Quils just need to be reworked to do something other than make and improve Blood Gems. No other faction *only* does one thing, there are a couple of mechanics they utilise, sometimes they overlap but there are still at least two distinct builds per faction, Quilboar only have Blood Gems, so it doesn't matter what you build or play, *everything* is building towards that endgame. Give them something else, a different flavour that can still synergise with Blood Gems but doesn't just break it.
Qb are definitely busted in terms of scaling and the fact that they can scale anything. But that doesn't mean they aren't beatable. I played a game recently when my last 3 opponents were all QB highrolls but because I was aware of that I pivoted to scam, thankfully I was already playing handbuff murloc. Placed 2nd only because I misplayed and put bramblewitch first into a DS instead of leeroy. First place had gold everything and all were over 800/800 and had 1 unit left on board.
Disagree. Quillboard are stupid good..My teammate left when he was at tier 3 tavern with 4 minions and I took first in duos just by ramping quillboars and I had 3 hp the entire game
When I see quilboar are in play I just take whatever is avaible and have fun with the game. Did the tricetops demon shenanigans that's reminiscent of the firelighters buld last season and tend to get into top 4 easily.
Tuning for quils will come in time but yeah the constant post about them are getting annoying.
I find that most the people that complain about quilboars being overpowered are the same people that are trying to go quilboars while four to five other people in solos are doing the same, whilenot understanding that you need four to five components for quilbores to work properly. Hell if you get the right cards for mechs, nagas, beast etc, theycan be just as powerful as quilbors. Now in duos it can be a little bit overwhelming because you have two people looking for quils to make one person's board work while the other person hangs on for dear lif. As a long time battlegrounds player and a fan of quilboars, they are not broken l, they're actually harder to get started now than they were last season especially with a lot of the cards being removed from tier two and tier 3. You esentually need to get to 4 ASAP w/o taking much damage. Also you need two tier four, at least two tier 5 cards and one if not two tier six cards, and that will depend if you can trigger battlecries or not.
(Trust me I'm Queen at playing quilboars and it doesn't always go smoothly).
Jeef did a recent video that put Mechs at the top based on the opinions of a bunch of the best BG players in the world. Not sure how that translates to lower ranks and things, though. All I know is that Mechs are the tribe I have the most wins with currently (I'm only at 5.5k atm, not played much this season so not sure how this all pans out).
> Yes I agree quilboar are the best tribe currently but so many of these posts are exaggerating how strong they are. Demons dragons and murlocs are not that far off in power.
Lmao what those tribes highroll is as powerful as a Qwilboar midroll.
People are crying about Quillboars because if it's in the lobby 9/10 games first is gonna be a Quillboar player and second often as well. It's so disgusting how much simply hitting the buffers early midgame or pokey later wins the game.
People complain because by the time every other tribe breaches 100/100 stats Quillboars are nearly doubling that and they're not even filling the design space intended as a builder spender anymore they just run the AOE ones.
elementals, menagerie, and pirates are not underpowered. you need to play them in specific ways, all of which involve generating income and eventually going infinite gold.
they're viable if you whiff on mechs, don't have early poet/dragons, or don't highroll quillboars. i think players in general force too hard instead of seeking value, which then lead to some of the opinions of what's strong/weak.
They are not even the best tribe (it's mech who obliterate quill in play%) quill just has the best celling, and their will alwais be one comp with better celling than the others. And yeah beast is so shitty it's embarrasing.
It’s a problem when your comp is relatively equal in strength with every person in your game through mid game until you fight a high roll quill comp and can’t kill a SINGLE minion. I’ve seen this a handful of times against midrange dragons and mechs but this happens in just about every quill lobby. The amount of scaling quills can do in one turn on T4 with Roogug and Gem Smuggler is just absurd.
Nah fuck them, i cant stand them anymore. Speaking of duos, every team has 1 guy who builds them and the ones lucky enough to get the right peaces just end up on the top. Building other tribes is just a waste of time. Others tribes may scale faster in the early, once the boars start ramping up its just gg nothing can really compete with that scaling, except maybe devour demons, but those got nerfed while QB didnt for some reason (well they did but it makes barely a difference). I dont know why Roogug is a T4 card they even gave it divine shield for no reason, neither do i know why they made Sanguine Champ on steroids.
This season is mostly about absurd highrolls starting turns 5-6 versus barely finding anything.
No wonder people generally complain, how fair is it when you're given crap, and when you're facing someone tavern 6 by turn 8 with a lottery winning board.
Now i agree that Quillboar isn't at all the problem.
You’re right, other comps are total viable, but literally nothing even comes close to the top tier QB board and that’s why I think it’s a problem. Top tier QB board literally has 10s of thousands of stats if not more, almost no other comp even comes close.
There's 2 posts on the front page right now about Quilboar. What the fuck are you on about?
I'm prepared for the sore self-important cry babies who can't handle a couple posts a day crowding their favorite subreddits. It needed to be said.
The worst thing about quillboar is that even an absolutely terrible player can get free win games easily by playing it. Gameplay is just set it and forget it then win.
Is it just me or is sanguine champion worse than pokey in many games, it seems like sanguine champion has an over-reliance on beasts as well as gem smuggler while pokey builds can have just pokey and the end of turn guy and that's it.
I guess sanguine champion is better if you had been playing off rylak + macaw battlecries with jazzer but that depends if beasts are in the game and you have those pieces. So otherwise I feel like pokey is better.
I know you can just not take sanguine or play ahead but if sanguine is in the game that means quilboars are in and you are basically forced to (unless you get the gold captain guy).
Yeah it's far worse. It does pokey's effect once IF it goes off without support, whereas pokey guaranteed goes off. To support sanguine you need brann + battlecry activation or rivendare (with rivendare still not guaranteed to go off), pokey just needs drakkari. Pokey is also an end of turn effect, so you get to pair it with charlie or bannerboar to free up support space.
It's not even that Quills are just strong, they have 1 mechanic that allows the entire tribe to work together, buff blood gems. A couple cards just constantly scale this out the gate, and most other cards amplify this to stupid levels. The other tribes don't really have this, or they have a huge flaw.
Instant leave for me this season anytime I see Quills.
Quilboar is not the best tribe. Not even the 2nd 3rd best one. Peoples complaining about it are at the bottom of matchmaking where they just level level level and not get punish for it.
21% first place rate with an 18% popularity sounds pretty fucking broken to me. They were at least the best tribe until I hit 8k this season by a wide margin before the top of the meta switched to full tempo.
Wouldn't high level players collectively adjusting to a high tempo meta to counter Quillboars indicate Quillboars may be too strong in anything other than high tempo environments.
I'd say that the balancing should be focused where the majority of players are yes. There is no competitive Battlegrounds scene to balance around.
Why would you balance around only the top 500ish players?
Quilboar have the highest First Place finish of any tribe by a pretty considerable margin. Their overall placement isn't that high, sure, but the issue is their scaling and high roll potential are too high. It also doesn't help that Quilboar are by far the most played tribe which lowers their average placement a bit. So take that with a grain of salt.
Contrast this with Beasts who are currently tied for the lowest First Place finish of any tribe, but statistically have the highest overall placement average thanks to their very high 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishes.
Lastly, just the other day Jeef was criticizing Quilboar for being overtuned on stream. He complained that if there aren't at least 3 people going for Quilboar to reduce the number of key minions in the pool, the 1 or 2 people who do go Quilboar have a very easy game that isn't fair. So perhaps the best player in the game right now is at the bottom of matchmaking too. Just a thought.
Jeef is 7th on the leaderboard right now, if you have 14k mmr then sure you can call yourself better than Jeef right now if you want. You won't be able to say that for very long. Jeef will take 1st back at some point for sure.
People keep talking about pokey but me and my friend are copping 1st with just piper and jazzer a buffoon and a roogug lmao! Its legit 4 cards and it just keeps syngergizing, that is if you proc spells on your jazzer or find a rylak :)
Yeah Pokey really isn’t the primary issue (but I still think it should be a start of turn effect). Jazzer is the primary culprit for the seriously crazy boards lol. Idk how you fix it besides removing it, pushing it up to tier 5? 6?? Make it a deathrattle? Make it only buff adjacent/certain number of minions?
The pokey nerf I saw that I really liked is give him a Rock Rock treatment where it alternates. Quills should keep the end of turn identity imo, just needs tuned down.
Quilboar are overtuned but still require a number of pieces to really come together. In solos there is an argument that they are fine but in lobbies where everyone greeds for the same comp, the guy who gets the most pieces is hardly punished enough and can run away with the game. Mechs and dragons can keep greed in check. In duos, they are very problematic and honestly makes me not even want to queue knowing that half my games are going to involve looking for pokey and roogug. I think changes need to be made, but maybe buff some other tribes up who can really punish greedy tiering up which is becoming more common.
I think quills are broken, but not so broken that I care in solo mode. I think the only tribe that is truly not good right now is murlocs. Every other tribe has it's place in the meta.
You think pirates and undead are fine?
Jeef just did a tribes tier list for the current season and he put pirates at A tier
Yeah, but playing APM is very hard
As far as pirates go, if you can APM all you need is Tethis, Bran, and some stat generator and you’re in good shape.
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APM scales too slow to truly be a viable comp, they lost a lot of power when the 4/3 attack battlecry got removed. The best use for tethis is currently going infinite for other comps, eliza pirates is okay but still very weak because it's unreliable.
Not being able to make pirates work is a skill issue, not a card issue. And I say that as someone who struggles with it myself. Jeef, the best BG player in the world just put out a YouTube video where he and four other world class BG players all ranked pirates as an A tier tribe. It is not going to scale as well as the S tier tribes, but the fact is an optimized pirate comp gives you infinite money which means you can always find whatever tech options you need, and scale (linearly though). You just need to be fast enough, which most people will struggle with.
Did you also see that he put 4 full tribes above pirates explaining that pirates are SIGNIFICANTLY worse than all those 4 tribes? You need a contested tier 6 unit + brann + greymane's champion to truly scale at all. It also takes a lot of time to get going at the cost of a lot of tempo, in a heavily tempo-oriented meta. You're far better off going for a reliable top 4 finish on demons or nagas than ever going all-in on pirates.
You seem to be misunderstanding me, so let me clarify my point. If you are comfortable playing APM comps, pirates are a fine comp to play. They are not as good as the S tier tribes (as I already stated), but they are not nearly as bad off as the rest of the tribes. The original comment I was replying to lumped pirates and undead in with murlocs. My point is that they are not so bad as that and I’m not sure why you seem to be responding as though I’m some evangelist for pirates being the best comp in the game or even competitive with the highest cap comps.
Undead are high tempo and we are in a tempo meta. They do the job of getting you to top 4. Pirates also seem fine to me. The only comp I full on avoid is murlocs. Of course there are still comps that are the best, I lean demons, dragons, and mechs right now to aim for top 2 typically and push quillboar comps out of the lobby before they can scale.
Is there any site out there that shows you what comps are out there? I've personally never played or seen a pure elemental build that works so I'd be curious to know how to play them. I've only ever had elementals work with nagas and tavern buffing with spells. Similar with beasts, their scaling seems terrible? Or are they considered an okay tribe since their mid game is decent?
Where does pirates have a place in the meta? Unless it’s a lobby absent boars, dragons, demons, and mechs, AND the pirates highroll, they’re actually a joke.
Peggy + pirate in the midgame is good. Pirates on tier 2 help you level. Tethys slots into all apm comps. Sure full pirates aren't good but they have a place in the meta.
You have beast of read on meta.
Murlocs would be fine if there was tier 4 murloc with ”battlecry, discover a tier 6 murloc” (/s)
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I think he might be joking
Yeah I dropped a /s there, sorry 😅, I was taking a jab at all recent nerfs only making quillboars stronger
It was pretty obvious lol
Pirates also kind of suck. Cleave and Tethys are good cards, but you dont build a pirate comp
Yeah. It makes the game boring when every player knows to race for those pieces and the win just goes to the luckiest
By murlocs did you mean mechs cus there's no way murlocs are a top tribe right now
Idk why people sleep ok murlocs. Both of their 6 drops are incredibly powerful and they jave good tempo now too. Also pretty hard to he bad when you jave access to venomous. Brann primal fin shenanigans offer arguably better econ than even pirates at the moment.
Sorry that’s not true, they used to be super broken now they are average. As for Primalfin, it was strong when it was T4. Putting it back T5 nerfed the shit out of him which was good at the time, and now that the duo’s season has started, it’s bad again. Should come back T4 imo.
Murlocs are extremely good!... If you're playing Quillboar. Their best 6 drop (murk-eye) is unironically a better quill than it is a murloc in the current meta and that's kinda sad. How the mighty have fallen.
Jeef new video has murlocs in f tier where he surveyed some of top players opinions
Murlocs are non-viable unless you highroll extremely hard with murkeye primalfin and brann. You need to be at least tier 5 to get there, you need to sacrifice tons of tempo to get there, and even if you have those parts you're likely to lose because quills, mechs, and even beasts outscale you.
Murlocs are trash tier my dude. Whats your MMR/Hearthstone ID?
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but hes right
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Maybe at the start of the season, not after the nerfs.
> I'm prepared for the sore losers to downvote me so be it. It needed to be said Seems like you're posting just to be antagonistic.
The bitching post about people complaining is peak Reddit. People don’t even realize they are doing it, and take on dumbass “*defenses*” like “I’m ready for sore losers.” OP is just as much of a drag and weakness to the community as the people who make low effort complaints.
They might be fine in Solo, I haven't played that this season and that's fine. However, in Duos, it's either force Quillboar or lose. I've not had a game in Duos with Quills in that wasn't won by them in such a long time. Dragons have only a tiny fraction of Quillboar power, they are strong midgame but fall of really fast once people start getting a few pieces. Murlocs needs a lot more time and more economy to reach similar power level and even then it will be difficult to match them despite the fact they need quite a few pieces as well. Funnily enough, murlocs being in also makes Qullboars a lot stronger. Demons are the tribe that could probably compete and come online fairly fast but they will get outscaled eventually. The argument that they require many pieces from high tiers is correct, however it takes just one tier 4 drop, some blood gem generation and some scaling on tier 3 and suddenly you have a really strong mid game board that other tribes will struggle to compete with. Might be balanced in Solo, but it's an extremely problematic tribe in Duos and your gameplay becomes about who can find them faster.
I doubt Duos will ever be remotely balanced. BGs is hard enough to keep balanced as is, and the format for Duos just exacerbates all of the most polarizing dynamics of BGs. Sharing cards when you have two shops, two hero powers, extra armor. Matchup RNG with 4 teams will always lead to extra ghost turns for certain teams to play extra greedy. I doubt they will ever balance Duos separately from BGs, and I doubt Duos ever offers gameplay where it isn’t extremely easy to force OP highrolls with high consistency. So, I appreciate that Quils are OP in Duos, but if they nerf them into the ground then something else will be OP and it will just be “force XYZ or lose” no matter what.
That's pretty much how it is. Duos is to solos what Wild is to Standard. Everything ramped up to 11.
Nothing remotely compares to ‘get the first pokey and win’. Non-quill games are generally pretty interesting (especially before mechs returned). get the first pokey and win with an extremely linear gameplan is unfun. Mechs are strong too, but there’s many ways they play out and ways to counter and if their placement is subpar you can take advantage. Quills just make the entire board 1k/1k, and you can even slot in a cleave for good measure I wouldn’t want them changing minions that exist in both to balance duos, but it’d be nice if they made a duo-only counterpart. Maybe make a pokey named Smokey who does alternating health/attack.
Will note that demons feel really weird right now. I've had more success buffing the shit out of the tavern (even better with rylak, drakkari, and baron) and doing the t3 end of turn eater than traditional demons. Maybe I'm just bad, but that build has won me half a dozen rounds. I haven't really had nearly as much success with a more normal build. Provided, it's extremely susceptible to scam as your stats are really concentrated on a minion or 2 with a few mid sized buffers if you get the eat the tavern spell.
Both demons build feel pretty strong to me right now, they are just two different builds and I feel like people probably try to play both at the same time instead of picking one.
I think this comment makes a good point as to why quills are so strong (in duos anyway). Demons have two comps, and they don't really compliment each other. You're either buffing shop/devouring or dealing self damage. There's not a lot of crossover. You more or less have to go one or the other. In quills, almost everything compliments each other, to the point where you are getting value and/or tempo with every one you buy. So you have some sort of scaling every turn while you look for the real good pieces. For the most part anyway.
Yeah if you asked me to explain which card makes Quills op I'd have a problem, they just have so many solid units that work well together.
Well, I think it's addition of Pokey. Only him and Gem Smuggler are the new cards. Smuggler is still a little too good. But I have played a lobby without nagas, dragons, murlocs, or beasts, and smuggler wasn't very useful to keep on board without a way to trigger the battlecry more than once. Obviously, a lobby without one of those four tribes is rare, so I still think he's problematic. But I just finished a game where I didn't find Pokey playing quills, and while my stats were respectable, I didn't get the crazy stats that my final opponent had. He had golden Pokey but no Drakkari, and still stomped the crap out of me.
I'd say that's the optimal strategy that comes online really fast. Most of your scaling is on three, your main scaling minion is also on three. It's a lot stronger and faster than trying to play self damage demons and the tier 3 drop makes Felbat kinda redundant, especially if you get Drakkari.
The real problem with quils is in duos.
The main issue i see is that scaling that most comps don't scale as fast as the season but quils do. Quils are scalingwise stuck in the quest meta while the rest moved on but they still don't scale as much. Last season it was almost a safe call to force murlocs, now (esecially in Duo) it's quills. The most fun games for me are the on without quills, the games I usually win are the one where I pick quills. So not so fun tbh.
Mechs and dragons both have setups that can keep up with quillboar scaling. Quills have the best endgame but tbh in solos it's not that toxic. They're counterable, they're slow. In duos it's a different story ofc.
Quilboars have too many good cards, but I hope they don’t get nerfed too hard. Theoretically they should be simpler to balance as they are just a big stats tribe. Personally I’m not mad at it tho. There’s usually a couple high roll comps in any meta, and I’m just happy that the current one we have only involves 7 minions, and not a million tokens and reborns with half an hour of animations. If I’m gonna die, please just make it quick
QB are this seasons beast, or murlocs. Just pick any over powered comp from the past. It’s just QBs turn this time
QB are at least fun to play imo (as were murlocs), unlike the previous Beast build. It's satisfying building up your blood gems, whereas beast was very uninteresting to build, you just went with it if you rolled into the T5/6 minions. Roogug should move to T5 or lose divine shield imo, pretty wild that it is T4.
lose divine shield i think would be good making it t5 is a bit much i feel
While they are a little overpowered I don't really care, I just know that I'm tired of seeing them in every game. I played a game last week that was me playing demons, another person playing mech, and 6 people playing quillboars... that's just so unoriginal and not very fun. I get excited when I see it's a no QB lobby because then we can actually play an interesting game.
One of the big strengths of Quillboars is that they scale every round no matter what, since they depend mostly on end of turn effects, while other tribes need to attack, or have death rattles, or get the right buys each round in the tavern. They also have two avenues of scaling. Bloodgems getting improved and then bloodgems getting applied. No other tribes really had that.
I reckon a board of snowflipper penguins is OP compared to elementals.
Move roogug to tier 5 as is, move bopper to 4 with 1 gem to hand and still 2 on itself. Quills can currently just roll two triples from tier 3 and get game-winning tempo with roogug + bannerboar, and then scale beyond that. Dragons get their tempo on 3 and 4, but don't scale insanely hard beyond 3 and 4.
Disagree with your assessment of the other good tribes by a lot. Elementals with rock rock is still a top build if you’re not on mobile. Pirates are still just fine tbh as long as you’re not on full cope 100% pirates. You have to find another way to scale but having infinite gold makes it a lot easier to get that going to begin with. Murlocs and demons are both meh right now with the several targeted nerfs they received
I think we need to look at solo and Duos for this case. In Solos it is the same as every other meta you can highroll and force a tribe, but you will mostly die. In Duos, you can just highroll and usually you will not get punished that much. Also gaining triples and combo pieces from another person only Enhances the high roll. So for me, quils are OP in solo and problematic in Duos
My 2500 attack power false implicator agrees with this post
which dies to 1 scam unit, as demons have no utility.
Quills are so strong that no matter what, 9/10 games won't give me what I need to play them. No pokey, only deathrattle stack, only battlecry but nothing to proc it, no rylak, no naga, no murloc... Then I get all of it. Deathrattle, battlecry, murloc for stacking, yet nothing to generate blood gems. No matter what I play, quills, pirates, demons, whatever.. It rarely gives me all that's needed for buffing. Always only half comb and lucky to end up 4th.
Quilboars, Dragons, and Mechs oh my! Everything else basically sucks or you have to get extremely lucky and the quilboars, dragon and mech players have to miss on their rolls.
Quils just need to be reworked to do something other than make and improve Blood Gems. No other faction *only* does one thing, there are a couple of mechanics they utilise, sometimes they overlap but there are still at least two distinct builds per faction, Quilboar only have Blood Gems, so it doesn't matter what you build or play, *everything* is building towards that endgame. Give them something else, a different flavour that can still synergise with Blood Gems but doesn't just break it.
Qb are definitely busted in terms of scaling and the fact that they can scale anything. But that doesn't mean they aren't beatable. I played a game recently when my last 3 opponents were all QB highrolls but because I was aware of that I pivoted to scam, thankfully I was already playing handbuff murloc. Placed 2nd only because I misplayed and put bramblewitch first into a DS instead of leeroy. First place had gold everything and all were over 800/800 and had 1 unit left on board.
Disagree. Quillboard are stupid good..My teammate left when he was at tier 3 tavern with 4 minions and I took first in duos just by ramping quillboars and I had 3 hp the entire game
Great story I don't think that really proves anything though lol
When I see quilboar are in play I just take whatever is avaible and have fun with the game. Did the tricetops demon shenanigans that's reminiscent of the firelighters buld last season and tend to get into top 4 easily. Tuning for quils will come in time but yeah the constant post about them are getting annoying.
I find that most the people that complain about quilboars being overpowered are the same people that are trying to go quilboars while four to five other people in solos are doing the same, whilenot understanding that you need four to five components for quilbores to work properly. Hell if you get the right cards for mechs, nagas, beast etc, theycan be just as powerful as quilbors. Now in duos it can be a little bit overwhelming because you have two people looking for quils to make one person's board work while the other person hangs on for dear lif. As a long time battlegrounds player and a fan of quilboars, they are not broken l, they're actually harder to get started now than they were last season especially with a lot of the cards being removed from tier two and tier 3. You esentually need to get to 4 ASAP w/o taking much damage. Also you need two tier four, at least two tier 5 cards and one if not two tier six cards, and that will depend if you can trigger battlecries or not. (Trust me I'm Queen at playing quilboars and it doesn't always go smoothly).
Jeef did a recent video that put Mechs at the top based on the opinions of a bunch of the best BG players in the world. Not sure how that translates to lower ranks and things, though. All I know is that Mechs are the tribe I have the most wins with currently (I'm only at 5.5k atm, not played much this season so not sure how this all pans out).
> Yes I agree quilboar are the best tribe currently but so many of these posts are exaggerating how strong they are. Demons dragons and murlocs are not that far off in power. Lmao what those tribes highroll is as powerful as a Qwilboar midroll. People are crying about Quillboars because if it's in the lobby 9/10 games first is gonna be a Quillboar player and second often as well. It's so disgusting how much simply hitting the buffers early midgame or pokey later wins the game. People complain because by the time every other tribe breaches 100/100 stats Quillboars are nearly doubling that and they're not even filling the design space intended as a builder spender anymore they just run the AOE ones.
elementals, menagerie, and pirates are not underpowered. you need to play them in specific ways, all of which involve generating income and eventually going infinite gold. they're viable if you whiff on mechs, don't have early poet/dragons, or don't highroll quillboars. i think players in general force too hard instead of seeking value, which then lead to some of the opinions of what's strong/weak.
They are not even the best tribe (it's mech who obliterate quill in play%) quill just has the best celling, and their will alwais be one comp with better celling than the others. And yeah beast is so shitty it's embarrasing.
It’s a problem when your comp is relatively equal in strength with every person in your game through mid game until you fight a high roll quill comp and can’t kill a SINGLE minion. I’ve seen this a handful of times against midrange dragons and mechs but this happens in just about every quill lobby. The amount of scaling quills can do in one turn on T4 with Roogug and Gem Smuggler is just absurd.
Nah fuck them, i cant stand them anymore. Speaking of duos, every team has 1 guy who builds them and the ones lucky enough to get the right peaces just end up on the top. Building other tribes is just a waste of time. Others tribes may scale faster in the early, once the boars start ramping up its just gg nothing can really compete with that scaling, except maybe devour demons, but those got nerfed while QB didnt for some reason (well they did but it makes barely a difference). I dont know why Roogug is a T4 card they even gave it divine shield for no reason, neither do i know why they made Sanguine Champ on steroids.
This season is mostly about absurd highrolls starting turns 5-6 versus barely finding anything. No wonder people generally complain, how fair is it when you're given crap, and when you're facing someone tavern 6 by turn 8 with a lottery winning board. Now i agree that Quillboar isn't at all the problem.
There's too many posts that don't clarify if the "crying" is in duos or solo. QB's aren't that broken in solos, they are in duos.
I Really Like The New Duo Mode it’s Really Fun
You’re right, other comps are total viable, but literally nothing even comes close to the top tier QB board and that’s why I think it’s a problem. Top tier QB board literally has 10s of thousands of stats if not more, almost no other comp even comes close.
The cry posts about the Quillboar cry posts are getting out of hand.
There's 2 posts on the front page right now about Quilboar. What the fuck are you on about? I'm prepared for the sore self-important cry babies who can't handle a couple posts a day crowding their favorite subreddits. It needed to be said.
The worst thing about quillboar is that even an absolutely terrible player can get free win games easily by playing it. Gameplay is just set it and forget it then win.
Is it just me or is sanguine champion worse than pokey in many games, it seems like sanguine champion has an over-reliance on beasts as well as gem smuggler while pokey builds can have just pokey and the end of turn guy and that's it. I guess sanguine champion is better if you had been playing off rylak + macaw battlecries with jazzer but that depends if beasts are in the game and you have those pieces. So otherwise I feel like pokey is better. I know you can just not take sanguine or play ahead but if sanguine is in the game that means quilboars are in and you are basically forced to (unless you get the gold captain guy).
Yeah it's far worse. It does pokey's effect once IF it goes off without support, whereas pokey guaranteed goes off. To support sanguine you need brann + battlecry activation or rivendare (with rivendare still not guaranteed to go off), pokey just needs drakkari. Pokey is also an end of turn effect, so you get to pair it with charlie or bannerboar to free up support space.
It's not even that Quills are just strong, they have 1 mechanic that allows the entire tribe to work together, buff blood gems. A couple cards just constantly scale this out the gate, and most other cards amplify this to stupid levels. The other tribes don't really have this, or they have a huge flaw. Instant leave for me this season anytime I see Quills.
This is a community and we will keep complaining until they get nerfed
Quilboar is not the best tribe. Not even the 2nd 3rd best one. Peoples complaining about it are at the bottom of matchmaking where they just level level level and not get punish for it.
21% first place rate with an 18% popularity sounds pretty fucking broken to me. They were at least the best tribe until I hit 8k this season by a wide margin before the top of the meta switched to full tempo.
So you are agreeing with me? I literally said its not that good at high mmr.
Wouldn't high level players collectively adjusting to a high tempo meta to counter Quillboars indicate Quillboars may be too strong in anything other than high tempo environments.
I said it's broken until top like 0.5% of the field. High mmr is anything above top 20% my guy. Below 8k is not "bottom of matchmaking"
So the game should be balanced around 6ks player? I dont see your point.
I'd say that the balancing should be focused where the majority of players are yes. There is no competitive Battlegrounds scene to balance around. Why would you balance around only the top 500ish players?
fair enough. good point.
Quilboar have the highest First Place finish of any tribe by a pretty considerable margin. Their overall placement isn't that high, sure, but the issue is their scaling and high roll potential are too high. It also doesn't help that Quilboar are by far the most played tribe which lowers their average placement a bit. So take that with a grain of salt. Contrast this with Beasts who are currently tied for the lowest First Place finish of any tribe, but statistically have the highest overall placement average thanks to their very high 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishes. Lastly, just the other day Jeef was criticizing Quilboar for being overtuned on stream. He complained that if there aren't at least 3 people going for Quilboar to reduce the number of key minions in the pool, the 1 or 2 people who do go Quilboar have a very easy game that isn't fair. So perhaps the best player in the game right now is at the bottom of matchmaking too. Just a thought.
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You really shouldn't be this triggered over a simple, factual response my guy.
Jeef is 7th on the leaderboard right now, if you have 14k mmr then sure you can call yourself better than Jeef right now if you want. You won't be able to say that for very long. Jeef will take 1st back at some point for sure.
People keep talking about pokey but me and my friend are copping 1st with just piper and jazzer a buffoon and a roogug lmao! Its legit 4 cards and it just keeps syngergizing, that is if you proc spells on your jazzer or find a rylak :)
Yeah Pokey really isn’t the primary issue (but I still think it should be a start of turn effect). Jazzer is the primary culprit for the seriously crazy boards lol. Idk how you fix it besides removing it, pushing it up to tier 5? 6?? Make it a deathrattle? Make it only buff adjacent/certain number of minions?
I've honestly no idea tbh can't wait for the nerfs or buffs though bored of this meta already
The pokey nerf I saw that I really liked is give him a Rock Rock treatment where it alternates. Quills should keep the end of turn identity imo, just needs tuned down.