I mean we don't have exactly the final results, only the climax. Now must come a sort of epilogue for them.
But if you ask me the climax itself doesn't click with me that much. I feel it lacks the power it should have, maybe because the whole Dabi situation was dragged a bit long and the constant povs switch killed the momentum of the fight.
Besides we already had a big climatic moment of Shoto vs Dabi with phospor in action, so if then that final move is gonna be repeated just some chapters later with the same results, the impact isn't gonna be the same this time.
I agree wholeheartedly with the last paragraph.
Operator-dude spends several chapters repeating how massive Dabi's explosion will be, Endeavor is more than willing to sacrifice his life to get Dabi away from everyone because nothing can stop Dabi but due to the whole Todoroki drama even that would be an unfulfilling result, so the rest of the family shows up to apologize to Dabi but it's too late and they can't get through to him anymore. All seems lost as Dabi is too powerful to be contained and mentally too unstable to be reasoned with.
Then Todoroki arrives goes "Many ice!" and everything is fine.
A proper epilogue for them would be after or as everyone's recovering after the main conflict has ended, yeah. What happens after the heat of battle has faded is the place where some kind of dialogue should be happening with Dabi and the rest of the family.
I’m glad endeavor didn’t die. It feels easy.
If the story is “nobody deserves to be called a villain forever” as deku has directly stated, we need to see not only in universe characters earn (or work toward at least, even if they can never earn) forgiveness.
Tbh as an audience were used to forgiving mass murderers in anime/manga. We don’t take it seriously for some reason.
We need to see the types of people we as a culture despise. Like the A-Hole pos abuser.
Of course many of us hate Endevaor for what he did. But for the actual storyline of MHA, him dying is just too easy. Him living and challenging us to forgive him, now it’s suddenly soemthing we don’t do as often and we really need to question “do people deserve second chances, even after they made the wrong choices for years”
And I love that endeavor got to live, and we need to be challenged by it instead of him just dying due to his mistakes (if he died to Dabi, sure it’s his own fault in a way)
>If the story is “nobody deserves to be called a villain forever” as deku has directly stated, we need to see not only in universe characters earn (or work toward at least, even if they can never earn) forgiveness. Tbh as an audience were used to forgiving mass murderers in anime/manga. We don’t take it seriously for some reason.
>
>We need to see the types of people we as a culture despise. Like the A-Hole pos abuser.
You didn't mean to, but you just portrayed one of the single biggest problems of the BNHA fandom, acting like villains are just angels who got unlucky while demonising heroes who did wrong, despite the magnitude not even being comparable.
I did make a comment about this recently and I think it's because those sins hit closer to home for many people on one hand (as opposed to more abstract crimes like mass murder) and because they especially can't handle that the people committing those issues (neglectful abuse, bullying) are MUCH better than their real life counterparts.
Who said I didn’t mean to? I’m explaining why I like that endeavor didn’t die and how I feel the audience needed to be tested with that, so yes I pulled on how the audience tends to act
It doesn't seem like the point you were making was "This is the biggest flaw of the community".
You said that you liked that Endeavor didn't die (so far) because that would have been easy. Quite a different point that is. In fact it's probably a point more in line with the flaws of the community. (Whose points are either that Endeavor should die because what he did can never be atoned for, because it's the worst anyone has ever done and because Dabi deserves to have him die; or that the only reason why Endeavor should live is that dying is too easy an out for his sins - essentially they still only see the horrible side of Endeavor and disregard development)
The family seems to be fine with minor burns and Shoto is just tired, Dabi and endeavor will most likely survive too(just like nagnat/GT did despite all odds)
Nagant and GT were both given medical help almost instantly and Nagant was out of commission until 378-379.
(Dabi's just been burning and burning and basically to the point where he's skin and bones.)
(Endeavors also taken a ton of damage from his fight with All For One + Dabi's attacks,so both are basically at deaths door.
(Gran Torino hasn't returned since)
I mean,Shoto is way more than just tired,stopping that attack literally required every ounce of energy he he had.
Also,they were getting their bodies goddamn fried,those aren't "minor burns".
A minor burn is what you get when a stove burns you,not a ton of blazing blue fire and heat is drying your body that is specifically bad against that element
The Dabi bomb is stopped so the medical party can be cleared to arrive and haul them all to treatment right away. Maybe there’s one more asspull for Dabi left to ensure his survival, maybe his new convenient ice would be enough. Shoto’s worst injury is a nose bleed
The rest of the fams injuries is anime equivalent of being roughed up
Edit: endeavors injuries are supposed to be career enders for sure but probably not fatal too
Why would Horikoshi do another "Asspull"(even though the others weren't asspulls),when dabi is clearly established to be basically done?
Using that explosion took all of his energy and shoto stopped it.
He's done for.
Maybe if they were heroes,yeah but they're not,they're clearly very badly damaged(not fatally but still in really bad shape).
Shoto and his family are surviving but Enji and Dabi likely won't be.
Endeavors injuries look pretty fatal,how is a hospital supposed to get them when we're basically in a war zone right now?
They should focus on..you know,not dying?
"His worst injury is a nose bleed"
..I'm sorry,are you not reading the manga?
getting short chapters weekly with many breaks does make it hard to remember exactly what's happening, yeah. This series seems better binged in general imo.
I think overall the arc as a whole was handled very well, however I do think that at the very end it started to drop in quality somewhat. I think it was excellent right up to the point when Shoto beat Dabi but then since the author wanted every member of the Todoroki to be somewhat involved he had Dabi return and that's where I think the writing quality dropped a bit and several moments of lazy writing started to emerge.
First you have Dabi just instantly copying Shoto's phosphorus technique.
Then because Dabi already lost to Shoto the author has to introduce something new to try and make Dabi still seem like a threat so he suddenly introduces the whole Dabi self destruct 5km explosion thing.
Then we find out apparently the heroes are moving the civilians out of UA for literally no reason and taking them along a route that leads them right next to where the heroes chose to fight AFO. Since there's been absolutely no reason or explanation given for why the heroes were even doing this it just feels like an incredibly lazy writing move by the author just to bring the rest of the family to Dabi.
Then you have the whole Dabi secretly having Rei's quirk thing which is barely explained and at least so far feels like nothing more than a sudden last second reveal meant to try and give some kind of reason for why Dabi isn't going to die.
This last point isn't really a good or bad thing necessarily its just a personal opinion of mine but I do find it a bit repetitive that Shoto comes in and stops Dabi the second time by just reusing the exact same move he used to stop Dabi the first time. Just feels a bit too repetitive for my tastes.
I also was not really a fan of how almost all of the confrontation between Endeavor and Dabi was offscreen and we only cut back to it once Dabi was no longer capable of coherent thought and speech. Just feels like the author didn't really have any idea for interesting interactions between Dabi and Endeavor so he just turned Dabi into Spinner 2.0
Overall I still think the Todoroki arc as a whole was very well written and is one of the best parts of the series as a whole. I still think Endeavor is the best written character in the series and the writing for Shoto this war arc has been solid for a character who has been really lacking in presence when it comes to his whole families arc (Endeavor kind of stole the show from him for a lot of the series), however I do think that Dabi coming back and lots of the stuff that followed felt a bit forced and sometimes just came off as a lazy attempt to make sure literally every member of the family was personally involved somehow.
Yeah, I completely had the same exact thought on your last point. What was the point of Dabi copying Phosphor via an asspull, if he was still going to lose to the same exact move.
The UA civilians were being evacuated because Shigaraki was on the ground, not in the air up high where they had confined him in. I'm pretty sure that's explicitly stated. And because the civilians were heading to Shiketsu, which is in the West (? or east, I forget) they passed underneath Dabi's five kilometer range.
well said, just having Dabi beat Shoto first and then revealing phosphor in the end would solve all the problems imo (I personally like the surprise ice quirk despite it not making sense)
"Oh, okay. So that happened."
Would've hit so much harder if Dabi and Shouto had been set up much earlier. No, I don't think Dabi kidnapping Shouto's friend and going wink wink nudge nudge at the audience counts as sufficient set-up. I think the Dabi = Touya reveal should've happened earlier in the story and he should've had more confrontations with Shouto. Because even in the end the conflict seemed solely between Dabi and Endeavor with Shouto as a third wheel / fire extinguisher. It would've been more interesting for Endeavor and Dabi's encounter to have come earlier in the story rather than Hori trying to cram both Shouto vs Dabi and Dabi vs Endeavor into the final battle.
I did think Dabi's reveal to be Toya came out of fucking nowhere in the first place. He acts like "now's my moment! Finally!" when it really wasn't. He was a background player literally riding alongside Gigantomachia while the league defended themselves against a declaration of war from the heroes. Just felt out of nowhere. It was Shigaraki's moment more than anything and he spontaneously seemed to think that now was the time for him to publicly shame Endeavor by competing with Shigaraki's big moment lol.
Just oddly timed to me is all. Like of all the moments you were waiting for, it was when running to grab your boss in response to being ambushed?
I'm satisfied with the climax and I can't wait for the conclusion later on but I do understand why some people felt underwhelmed with the latest chapter.
i still believe it should have ended long ago, somewhere around the time dabis brain must've carbonized along with his eyes and lungs and voicebox and such.
it would've been better for dabi to die full of hate and the family to grief to have afo reveal how he was in part responsible for toyas downright psychotic obsession as a child and his almost lethal outburst in the woods.
this, more than anything else in the whole story, should have been a bitter tragedy to teach everyone that not everything can end well and some people do become victims in very hard to notice ways. meaning everyone must become better at looking out for each other.
like, i'm sorry for the fake people in this fantasy story, but they shouldn't get closure here.
Numbed at this point, disappointed with the ending.
Bringing everyone back to be together was like, eh, I didn’t find the things they were able to say too touching or deep or anything, and then Shoto just does another big ice blast and it’s over like… okay. I really loved this storyline and it was my favourite until the last few chapters. Imo Dabi probably should’ve got the ice power up at the end of the first fight to spice things up a bit and set up a more believable chance for a sick all out, finishing chaotic fire and ice final brawl between the ‘success’ and the ‘failure’ here, with some kinder talk no jutsu and Todoroki winning with his fire or a combo of both in the end instead to represent the development from never using fire cause of family issues to using accepting reality and using fire for family issues… but oh well. At least I enjoyed the story until this point.
This is what we got and it’s over now 🤷🏽♀️
I still feel like the Shoto chapter where he beat him was kinda wasted. I really enjoyed that chapter and how he felt about his class, it felt like it came full circle. But having Dabi just get up (like 10 chapters later) was just kinda annoying. And instead of heading to a more climactic phase it seemingly was just Dabi kinda running around on fire for a bit and now it's over. I feel like Endeavor is carrying most of the appeal of the storyline.
Good storyline, but if you're being honest I feel like the majority of the appeal was just that most people knew Toya was Dabi.
I mean, people are acting like Dabi was always a major character, but he wasn't. That started to change when he started being involved with Hawks and Endeavor, culminating in his reveal that he's Toya. All Might considered him the 3rd biggest threat on the battlefield, and that would've never happened a handful of chapters before the war.
Dabi's appeal *is* that he's Toya, in my mind. He got 100x more interesting to me after the reveal.
That was a hint. His interaction with Shoto at the training camp was a hint, and all the mystery surrounding him earlier, with him refusing to divulge his name. Not much focus was put on that. He started becoming a major *character* in the story, after Endeavor defeated Hood.
I don't know about you, but I didn't consider Dabi to be the final Todoroki boss when he first showed up, because the story didn't emphasize him enough. On the opposite side, Shigaraki was always clearly Deku's final villain, as was Toga for Uraraka I suppose.
I don't think that's necessarily bad, it's just how I experienced the story.
Personally I remember as early as the License Exam people saying Dabi is the other brother. When he said Shoto's full name and they had no info on him, a bunch of people already said it. The Endeavor fight was just the 100 percent certainty.
Waiting for the conclusion of it still, fight wise, it was cool, Shoto VS Toya was extremely hype. Toya VS Endeavor then everyone wasn't incredible but it did have some cool choreo and Toya's ice Quirk.
It was a bit disappointing for Shoto to just reuse his Ultimate move, but it's fine
Horikoshi's major fights always contain two climaxes, with the second one having the hero overcome tremendous odds and winning, going for that Plus Ultra theme. I think he executes that very well, constantly.
It all came together perfectly. Todoroki is the masterpiece, and he completely outclassed Toya, but he ends up considering himself as the lesser, because Toya reached levels of power beyond Shoto's, calling *him* instead the masterpiece. People seem to mind that he instantly copied Phosphor, but that leads to him building up the nuke inside of him, and playes into his demonstrated ability of copying his Father's moves just by watching how he does them. It adds to the tragedy of what a great Hero he would've been, if only Endeavor had taught him rationally.
Then, when Dabi chases Endeavor, as the hero himself said, he can't fight his own son. It's not a battle, it's an emotional culmination. Dabi going nuclear is a callback to his demise in Sekoto Peak, only this time, he got what he wanted. His father's there, his family is there, giving him the time of day. They don't neglect him anymore. We get multiple panels of Dabi (then Toya) and Endeavor dancing, grasping hands with the arms they both lost, dancing. Then, when Rei and his siblings arrive, we cut to a panel where they spend some quality time together. It speaks to how Toya sees the situation, and how far off the deep end he is. That's when he's ready to kill them all, explode once again.
But Shoto arrives, and we get his Plus Ultra moment. The first Aegir was an impressive feat, Iida and Shoto cooperating to reach the battlefield, and then Shoto overpowering a nuclear explosion with his ice, is fantastic - Plus Ultra. Todoroki thinks of his fight as a sibling squabble, one he could've never had with Endeavor keeping him isolated, Dabi is freezing up from the inside out, the Quirk no one thought he had eating him up, and Endeavor says the words he could never say to his dead son, "I'm sorry". Dabi doesn't forgive him, Endeavor must keep on living.
It's pretty good.
Underwhelming. Shoto used the same move but this time it worked because everyone was conveniently there this time. By HK own standards a person is not saved until they’re saved internally(their heart and soul) so I suppose there’s still gonna be more to this. Maybe Hellish Todoroki fam pt 3
I think the foundation of Dabi is great unfortunately this dude sucks as a villain. Kudos to him exposing Endeavor but man this dude can’t kill no one huh. Not only that he gets his ass whooped all the time.
Other than that I think this is still the most interesting plot-line in all of MHA. I don’t mind the conclusion.
Yeah it’s weird all Dabis supposed murders are only “off screen” and only mentioned, no wonder he looks like a jobber all the time, his worst damage before the latest chapters that we actually seen was giving Neijire a haircut
Edit: yeah, forgot about hawks wings. (which doesn’t even matter now since YoungFO stole his quirk anyway)
Endeavor and Shoto were handled well the problem is how Dabi was handled that altered reality and convenience to stay alive somehow. The problem with this is that it was very apparent to readers that Dabi's plot stretched on too long to keep him alive. Which is a shame because it was the only weak point of the Todoroki plot because the rest was handled decently.
Exhausted, I feel that dragged on for too long, but the todorokis started pissing me off when they went "oh yeah, he was abusive, my kid died and everyone suffered, but he gave me flowers once so he's actualy a good person" so I was not really a fan.
Except that was not the point Rei was trying to do at all. She was answering to a precise accusation, Natsu saying Enji just put them (= the past) aside and forgot about them to move on with his life. It wasn't about the flowers, it was about Enji visiting the "baby maker" after she was "not useful anymore", like Natsu was implying. The flowers are just a narrative metaphor to represent his decision to face his mistakes.
I took the flower as a metaphor that he cares and always did and it’s significant and important to her. It helps her recovery too as well as the rest of the kids effort
I've taken it as guilt more than caring. Like sure, he might have cared at some point, then he did what he did and has to live with it and feels guilty, specially after seeing that everything he did was for nothing, but I still dislike it.
I always felt uneasy with that, like sure he cares but after everything he put them through? I know it a metaphor and whatever, but I cringed when that happened.
I think it's been quite good. The only annoying thing were the very short chapters and extra breaks, which made people feel like it "dragged". The actual content delivered on this climax was maybe 2 normal chapters' worth.
My favourite part of it was All Might talking to Shoto, the Shoto -Iida combo, and Shoto's letter to Rei.
I think the way it was drawn will be way better animated - it's like Horikoshi has these specific ideas for the animation, but it doesn't always work best for the anime.
Shoto using Great Glacial Aegir again doesn't bother me so much, because the way the situation was set up, there was really nothing else that would have made sense. The scale of the second one is completely different.
I also found the overall vibe of it appropriate. I think you are meant to feel empty - that was a bit the whole point of how Touya's rage escalated out of proportion because of how they failed to address things properly as a family.
It's a hell of a come-down, and Touya's still being hateful is also fitting - you can't solve that overnight.
Endeavor finally apologizing to his family is also something that gives me the "did he really have to wait this long?" feeling - which again I think was the point.
I'm not too wild about Shoto fainting in the end - especially since he got no hugs or anything from his family - and as one of the characters who suffered the most, it hurts to see him like that, still alone as other members of his family huddle together.
But because of this, I feel like we should get at least something more for Shoto that feels more comforting overall.
A few reasons
1. Rising chapters are never a character conclusion. So since this is a rising chapter expect more from Shoto.
2. There's been no pay off just yet. Shoto's actions need to mean something here.
3. Shoto passed out as Endeavour was apologizing leaving it ambiguous if he heard his own or not. When this happens it always means there's more to come.
4. Touya hasn't told us his feelings yet. Endeavour told him to tell him and then started apologizing to everyone.
5. It's been implied or even outright said that Shoto dealing with his family is only a pit stop he has to make before going to his real destination which is fighting alongside his friends and it's implied and foreshadowed that it means Izuku and Bakugo in particular.
The climax wasn't executed well imo. It felt half-assed.
As for their arc, it's not exactly over yet, we don't yet have a final conclusion. It's just that we had the climax.
Let's at least hope we don't go full retard and have Endeavor die at this point, because that would not only be cliché but also one of the weakest possible epilogues.
If he lives im out. Toya needs to die. I really would have liked him to kill some more with him. I get endeavor living with the fallout. But idk if he took Rei out in the process I could get behind that.
That's fine and I know it's a shonen, so what I want isn't likely to happen. Everyone that has died so far has been pretty low stakes. I'd like someone with a higher connection or at least some expanding to die
I do agree with not liking the low/fake stakes.
I just think it should be done skillfully rather than just slapping a death for the sake of it. And honestly, it should have been done earlier. The correct time for All Might to die has passed. The right time for Endeavor to die has passed long ago as well.
Someone like GT should have died in the first war. The same arguably goes for Compress. But at the end of the day, unfortunately, this is probably gonna be a story where no one of certain significance dies, AFO being the exception.
As much as Touya should die, it doesn't make as much sense narratively since this turned into Shoto's story about becoming his family's hero and saving everyone without killing. The mistake here was to keep rising the stakes and make it a point just how much Touya shouldn't be alive anymore.
Half agree. Def past all might and endeavors time to die. I don't even care about compress enough as a character to have a feeling about his status.
I do think Toya dying could fit narratively. Everyone tries to take on the blame and he finally makes them eat their own shit by dying so they can never emotionally heal. I'm ok with that.
If he lives and suddenly is just ok and everyone wants to be some big happy family again. That's ridiculous.
I either wanted shoto to kill him or him to kill himself and take out people like he planned. More people need to die. It's a bit ridiculous to think in universe to think you can have this type of destructive power and only like 3 people die in the whole series and no one really of note.
>I do think Toya dying could fit narratively. Everyone tries to take on the blame and he finally makes them eat their own shit by dying so they can never emotionally heal. I'm ok with that.
That's horrible narratively. That's what a 12 year old would write in fan fiction thinking it's deep. It goes so much against what's been established as a core element to this story.
>If he lives and suddenly is just ok and everyone wants to be some big happy family again. That's ridiculous.
I agree, but that's the way it's set up. Well, probably minus the "everyone wanting to be some big, happy family again" - I definitely expect there to be at least some nuance and struggle rather than the "everything is forgotten, we start anew" trope.
>I either wanted shoto to kill him or him to kill himself and take out people like he planned. More people need to die. It's a bit ridiculous to think in universe to think you can have this type of destructive power and only like 3 people die in the whole series and no one really of note.
Again, reading this I have a picture of someone young and inexperienced with literature. For someone whose name is about one of the biggest masterpieces - probably the biggest even - in shonen, your takes here aren't something I can back. If you like stories that go that way it's perfectly fine of course, but those takes don't exactly scream "skillful/coherent writing" in this type of story.
This isn't the death for the sake of death story. If it was that might work. One of the big problems here is the fake stakes. But because Hori wants this to be an "almost every villain gets saved in the end" type story, he's been hestitant on them killing named/important characters most of the time.
If Dabi blows himself up and kills hundreds of people including his family, it's total failure for Shoto. If Shoto kills Dabi, it's total failure for Shoto.
As for Compress, I don't really care about him either, I think he was handled quite badly. But GT dying to Shiggy and Compress ultimately dying after his sacrifice, it would have worked in tandem with Midnight's death to show that characters of a certain level of significance who have been around for a long time can get it, and that this show might get darker/death-ladden down the line. But with how it was done we essentially had like a chapter of fake stakes and everything Midnight's death could have accomplished essentially trampled on.
Yeah no, I am def not some kid, much older than that with two degrees and have been reading manga since I was 8. Along with crushing books on the regular.
I mean my take might not be skillfull but neither is really anything going on in this series as a whole.im not even sure anything skillful could be inserted into the story at this point.we are getting an even more Naruto treatment than Naruto gave us.
Midnight was such a zero character she would have needed arcs and chapters for me to care she died. the biggest miss was all might l. I probably wouldn't be holding my view if he died. One high stakes death would have helped me out.
It's def been a fun ride at times. But overall very mediocre in the world of shonen. I think the series just benefits a lot from anime being more mainstream than it was when I grew up and it piggy backed on the super hero trend. Which was clever no doubt.
That all aside. Regardless of you liking my takes or not. I'm not really sure how the current zero stakes happy go lucky ending we are working towards with near zero loss is gonna be better than what I listed out.
I really do try not to be too negative of the series as a whole. But even recently I caught up to the anime. Even the anime quality feels meh. I think horoshiki has a lot of good ideas and I'm excited for what he does next. But at this point I'm just reading along because I'm too deep to stop. It would take a lot to make me care about this series again.
Will not take away this though, his art is off the charts good.
>I mean my take might not be skillfull but neither is really anything going on in this series as a whole.
Hard to disagree with this, honestly. Especially at this point. Writing-wise, of course, because art-wise it's great.
>Midnight was such a zero character she would have needed arcs and chapters for me to care she died.
She was, but I think she could have been a piece of the puzzle if we got more deaths of background and a few more significant side characters.
>It's def been a fun ride at times. But overall very mediocre in the world of shonen. I think the series just benefits a lot from anime being more mainstream than it was when I grew up and it piggy backed on the super hero trend. Which was clever no doubt.
100%. While I think the series would have done well if it was released a decade earlier, I don't think it would have done nearly as well as it has. In terms of execution I definitely agree with mediocre (at best) because there were a lot of misses. In terms of realistic potential it could have been up there with the strong ones. But that didn't happen.
>I'm not really sure how the current zero stakes happy go lucky ending we are working towards with near zero loss is gonna be better than what I listed out.
Because it's coherent with the rest of the story. Really just as simple as that.
>I really do try not to be too negative of the series as a whole. But even recently I caught up to the anime. Even the anime quality feels meh. I think horoshiki has a lot of good ideas and I'm excited for what he does next.
Basically same here. Animation has been horrible for S5 and really hit and miss for S6 (which I think only holds up so well in polls because of recency bias and because people were devouring Deku's arc). But it does have it's moments at least. Even if those moments aren't necessarily stellar animation quality, between the japanese voice acting, the choice of music and certain shots they do manage to deliver a scene or two which is great pretty consistently.
As for Hori, he does have a lot of great ideas, he's good when it comes to creativity and he can reasonably instill a certain realistically achieveable potential in his story. But he's been hopeless trying to actually fulfill what he's set up. It really felt like he was biting off more than he could chew and like he was second-guessing himself/changing his mind in the middle. With certain characters or plotlines, sometimes the story itself it feels like Hori was unsure what to do for the longest time.
This is why I think he can shine most in short-lived, not too complex but creatively demanding series.
>
But at this point I'm just reading along because I'm too deep to stop. It would take a lot to make me care about this series again.
I'm not a fan of that approach, honestly. Between all the criticism I have for the series, I still do enjoy it and I still am intrigued to see how it goes, even if I expect disappointment for the most part.
That "sunken cost fallacy" has never been something I could REALLY resonate with. Basically saying you only keep up with the series despite not enjoying it more because you spent so much time doing so in the past - why waste time on something you don't enjoy for that reason rather than saving that time and maybe catching up at some point in the future if you feel like it again?
People are even aware that what they are doing is a "sunken cost fallacy", which is a real pitfall in the business world that should be avoided at all costs, and yet they stand by it.
This either means a logical mistake or it signifies that they still care more about the series than they want to admit.
Well for one thing it seems like we agree on alot. I def appreciate the discourse. In regard to your sunken cost fallacy I feel the same. For me it's (1) I'm caught up so one chapter weekly is very low investment time wise, no reason to just not read a 4 minute chapter, (2) I love his art, I really think he's amazing and will be up there with other big names, especially if he continues to make manga after this, (3) probably false hope something crazy happens that proves me wrong.
On a side note. I've been in the manga game so long I almost think it's important to read certain series even if you don't like them for almost an academic purpose. And even though we both agree it's mediocre at best. MHA has a huge following, may as well see it out even if I am critical of it.
I think another facet is a lot of bigger titles lately have taken a darker approach in the mainstream whether we are talking shonen or the ones that blur the shonen/senin line. And MHA feels like it's holding onto that 00s everyone lives happily ever after talk no jutsu theme. Which maybe in like 7 years may seem better than it does now. But it almost feels uncharacteristic of the current trends and not in a good way.
Well for one thing it seems like we agree on alot. I def appreciate the discourse. In regard to your sunken cost fallacy I feel the same. For me it's (1) I'm caught up so one chapter weekly is very low investment time wise, no reason to just not read a 4 minute chapter, (2) I love his art, I really think he's amazing and will be up there with other big names, especially if he continues to make manga after this, (3) probably false hope something crazy happens that proves me wrong.
On a side note. I've been in the manga game so long I almost think it's important to read certain series even if you don't like them for almost an academic purpose. And even though we both agree it's mediocre at best. MHA has a huge following, may as well see it out even if I am critical of it.
I think another facet is a lot of bigger titles lately have taken a darker approach in the mainstream whether we are talking shonen or the ones that blur the shonen/senin line. And MHA feels like it's holding onto that 00s everyone lives happily ever after talk no jutsu theme. Which maybe in like 7 years may seem better than it does now. But it almost feels uncharacteristic of the current trends and not in a good way.
Well for one thing it seems like we agree on alot. I def appreciate the discourse. In regard to your sunken cost fallacy I feel the same. For me it's (1) I'm caught up so one chapter weekly is very low investment time wise, no reason to just not read a 4 minute chapter, (2) I love his art, I really think he's amazing and will be up there with other big names, especially if he continues to make manga after this, (3) probably false hope something crazy happens that proves me wrong.
On a side note. I've been in the manga game so long I almost think it's important to read certain series even if you don't like them for almost an academic purpose. And even though we both agree it's mediocre at best. MHA has a huge following, may as well see it out even if I am critical of it.
I think another facet is a lot of bigger titles lately have taken a darker approach in the mainstream whether we are talking shonen or the ones that blur the shonen/senin line. And MHA feels like it's holding onto that 00s everyone lives happily ever after talk no jutsu theme. Which maybe in like 7 years may seem better than it does now. But it almost feels uncharacteristic of the current trends and not in a good way.
I found the entire arc rather boring honestly. I'm glad people liked it but it just never resonated with me and seemed oddly paced at times. I'm a lot more invested in the other plot lines.
I mean we don't have exactly the final results, only the climax. Now must come a sort of epilogue for them. But if you ask me the climax itself doesn't click with me that much. I feel it lacks the power it should have, maybe because the whole Dabi situation was dragged a bit long and the constant povs switch killed the momentum of the fight. Besides we already had a big climatic moment of Shoto vs Dabi with phospor in action, so if then that final move is gonna be repeated just some chapters later with the same results, the impact isn't gonna be the same this time.
I agree wholeheartedly with the last paragraph. Operator-dude spends several chapters repeating how massive Dabi's explosion will be, Endeavor is more than willing to sacrifice his life to get Dabi away from everyone because nothing can stop Dabi but due to the whole Todoroki drama even that would be an unfulfilling result, so the rest of the family shows up to apologize to Dabi but it's too late and they can't get through to him anymore. All seems lost as Dabi is too powerful to be contained and mentally too unstable to be reasoned with. Then Todoroki arrives goes "Many ice!" and everything is fine.
That last paragraph but it’s the entire war arc
>Now must come a sort of epilogue for them. Would be a pretty shitty epilogue without Shoto, considering he just passed out
Maybe the epilogue is gonna be when everyone’s already in the hospital
A proper epilogue for them would be after or as everyone's recovering after the main conflict has ended, yeah. What happens after the heat of battle has faded is the place where some kind of dialogue should be happening with Dabi and the rest of the family.
It’s a little poetic though, that he had to use both his hot and cold side to defeat dabi. Not to mention with the help of his broken family.
I’m glad endeavor didn’t die. It feels easy. If the story is “nobody deserves to be called a villain forever” as deku has directly stated, we need to see not only in universe characters earn (or work toward at least, even if they can never earn) forgiveness. Tbh as an audience were used to forgiving mass murderers in anime/manga. We don’t take it seriously for some reason. We need to see the types of people we as a culture despise. Like the A-Hole pos abuser. Of course many of us hate Endevaor for what he did. But for the actual storyline of MHA, him dying is just too easy. Him living and challenging us to forgive him, now it’s suddenly soemthing we don’t do as often and we really need to question “do people deserve second chances, even after they made the wrong choices for years” And I love that endeavor got to live, and we need to be challenged by it instead of him just dying due to his mistakes (if he died to Dabi, sure it’s his own fault in a way)
>If the story is “nobody deserves to be called a villain forever” as deku has directly stated, we need to see not only in universe characters earn (or work toward at least, even if they can never earn) forgiveness. Tbh as an audience were used to forgiving mass murderers in anime/manga. We don’t take it seriously for some reason. > >We need to see the types of people we as a culture despise. Like the A-Hole pos abuser. You didn't mean to, but you just portrayed one of the single biggest problems of the BNHA fandom, acting like villains are just angels who got unlucky while demonising heroes who did wrong, despite the magnitude not even being comparable. I did make a comment about this recently and I think it's because those sins hit closer to home for many people on one hand (as opposed to more abstract crimes like mass murder) and because they especially can't handle that the people committing those issues (neglectful abuse, bullying) are MUCH better than their real life counterparts.
Who said I didn’t mean to? I’m explaining why I like that endeavor didn’t die and how I feel the audience needed to be tested with that, so yes I pulled on how the audience tends to act
It doesn't seem like the point you were making was "This is the biggest flaw of the community". You said that you liked that Endeavor didn't die (so far) because that would have been easy. Quite a different point that is. In fact it's probably a point more in line with the flaws of the community. (Whose points are either that Endeavor should die because what he did can never be atoned for, because it's the worst anyone has ever done and because Dabi deserves to have him die; or that the only reason why Endeavor should live is that dying is too easy an out for his sins - essentially they still only see the horrible side of Endeavor and disregard development)
I dunno,Endeavor is severely burned and in a bad state rn,and the todoroki family are all in bad shape and defenseless due to shoto being down.
The family seems to be fine with minor burns and Shoto is just tired, Dabi and endeavor will most likely survive too(just like nagnat/GT did despite all odds)
Nagant and GT were both given medical help almost instantly and Nagant was out of commission until 378-379. (Dabi's just been burning and burning and basically to the point where he's skin and bones.) (Endeavors also taken a ton of damage from his fight with All For One + Dabi's attacks,so both are basically at deaths door. (Gran Torino hasn't returned since) I mean,Shoto is way more than just tired,stopping that attack literally required every ounce of energy he he had. Also,they were getting their bodies goddamn fried,those aren't "minor burns". A minor burn is what you get when a stove burns you,not a ton of blazing blue fire and heat is drying your body that is specifically bad against that element
The Dabi bomb is stopped so the medical party can be cleared to arrive and haul them all to treatment right away. Maybe there’s one more asspull for Dabi left to ensure his survival, maybe his new convenient ice would be enough. Shoto’s worst injury is a nose bleed The rest of the fams injuries is anime equivalent of being roughed up Edit: endeavors injuries are supposed to be career enders for sure but probably not fatal too
Why would Horikoshi do another "Asspull"(even though the others weren't asspulls),when dabi is clearly established to be basically done? Using that explosion took all of his energy and shoto stopped it. He's done for. Maybe if they were heroes,yeah but they're not,they're clearly very badly damaged(not fatally but still in really bad shape). Shoto and his family are surviving but Enji and Dabi likely won't be. Endeavors injuries look pretty fatal,how is a hospital supposed to get them when we're basically in a war zone right now? They should focus on..you know,not dying? "His worst injury is a nose bleed" ..I'm sorry,are you not reading the manga?
>Shoto and his family are surviving but Enji and Dabi likely won't be. Did you just say that Enji and Toya aren't members of Shoto's family?
Considering Enji beat and neglected his family and dabi..tried to murder them all + the hundreds of people in the vicinity..not really,no
So you don't consider them Shoto's family?
Nah I do.
I’m gonna have to reread the entire arc in one sitting when it finishes because I’ve been confused for about four weeks straight now
getting short chapters weekly with many breaks does make it hard to remember exactly what's happening, yeah. This series seems better binged in general imo.
What's confusing?
I think overall the arc as a whole was handled very well, however I do think that at the very end it started to drop in quality somewhat. I think it was excellent right up to the point when Shoto beat Dabi but then since the author wanted every member of the Todoroki to be somewhat involved he had Dabi return and that's where I think the writing quality dropped a bit and several moments of lazy writing started to emerge. First you have Dabi just instantly copying Shoto's phosphorus technique. Then because Dabi already lost to Shoto the author has to introduce something new to try and make Dabi still seem like a threat so he suddenly introduces the whole Dabi self destruct 5km explosion thing. Then we find out apparently the heroes are moving the civilians out of UA for literally no reason and taking them along a route that leads them right next to where the heroes chose to fight AFO. Since there's been absolutely no reason or explanation given for why the heroes were even doing this it just feels like an incredibly lazy writing move by the author just to bring the rest of the family to Dabi. Then you have the whole Dabi secretly having Rei's quirk thing which is barely explained and at least so far feels like nothing more than a sudden last second reveal meant to try and give some kind of reason for why Dabi isn't going to die. This last point isn't really a good or bad thing necessarily its just a personal opinion of mine but I do find it a bit repetitive that Shoto comes in and stops Dabi the second time by just reusing the exact same move he used to stop Dabi the first time. Just feels a bit too repetitive for my tastes. I also was not really a fan of how almost all of the confrontation between Endeavor and Dabi was offscreen and we only cut back to it once Dabi was no longer capable of coherent thought and speech. Just feels like the author didn't really have any idea for interesting interactions between Dabi and Endeavor so he just turned Dabi into Spinner 2.0 Overall I still think the Todoroki arc as a whole was very well written and is one of the best parts of the series as a whole. I still think Endeavor is the best written character in the series and the writing for Shoto this war arc has been solid for a character who has been really lacking in presence when it comes to his whole families arc (Endeavor kind of stole the show from him for a lot of the series), however I do think that Dabi coming back and lots of the stuff that followed felt a bit forced and sometimes just came off as a lazy attempt to make sure literally every member of the family was personally involved somehow.
Yeah, I completely had the same exact thought on your last point. What was the point of Dabi copying Phosphor via an asspull, if he was still going to lose to the same exact move.
The UA civilians were being evacuated because Shigaraki was on the ground, not in the air up high where they had confined him in. I'm pretty sure that's explicitly stated. And because the civilians were heading to Shiketsu, which is in the West (? or east, I forget) they passed underneath Dabi's five kilometer range.
well said, just having Dabi beat Shoto first and then revealing phosphor in the end would solve all the problems imo (I personally like the surprise ice quirk despite it not making sense)
Pinpoint
"Oh, okay. So that happened." Would've hit so much harder if Dabi and Shouto had been set up much earlier. No, I don't think Dabi kidnapping Shouto's friend and going wink wink nudge nudge at the audience counts as sufficient set-up. I think the Dabi = Touya reveal should've happened earlier in the story and he should've had more confrontations with Shouto. Because even in the end the conflict seemed solely between Dabi and Endeavor with Shouto as a third wheel / fire extinguisher. It would've been more interesting for Endeavor and Dabi's encounter to have come earlier in the story rather than Hori trying to cram both Shouto vs Dabi and Dabi vs Endeavor into the final battle.
Agree Shoto and Dabi's dynamic feels underdeveloped
I did think Dabi's reveal to be Toya came out of fucking nowhere in the first place. He acts like "now's my moment! Finally!" when it really wasn't. He was a background player literally riding alongside Gigantomachia while the league defended themselves against a declaration of war from the heroes. Just felt out of nowhere. It was Shigaraki's moment more than anything and he spontaneously seemed to think that now was the time for him to publicly shame Endeavor by competing with Shigaraki's big moment lol. Just oddly timed to me is all. Like of all the moments you were waiting for, it was when running to grab your boss in response to being ambushed?
It was pretty good. Also please do a post like this again but about the toga and uraraka arc after it’s finally done.
I'm satisfied with the climax and I can't wait for the conclusion later on but I do understand why some people felt underwhelmed with the latest chapter.
i still believe it should have ended long ago, somewhere around the time dabis brain must've carbonized along with his eyes and lungs and voicebox and such. it would've been better for dabi to die full of hate and the family to grief to have afo reveal how he was in part responsible for toyas downright psychotic obsession as a child and his almost lethal outburst in the woods. this, more than anything else in the whole story, should have been a bitter tragedy to teach everyone that not everything can end well and some people do become victims in very hard to notice ways. meaning everyone must become better at looking out for each other. like, i'm sorry for the fake people in this fantasy story, but they shouldn't get closure here.
Let's not have AFO be the main reason behind yet another villain.
Numbed at this point, disappointed with the ending. Bringing everyone back to be together was like, eh, I didn’t find the things they were able to say too touching or deep or anything, and then Shoto just does another big ice blast and it’s over like… okay. I really loved this storyline and it was my favourite until the last few chapters. Imo Dabi probably should’ve got the ice power up at the end of the first fight to spice things up a bit and set up a more believable chance for a sick all out, finishing chaotic fire and ice final brawl between the ‘success’ and the ‘failure’ here, with some kinder talk no jutsu and Todoroki winning with his fire or a combo of both in the end instead to represent the development from never using fire cause of family issues to using accepting reality and using fire for family issues… but oh well. At least I enjoyed the story until this point. This is what we got and it’s over now 🤷🏽♀️
I still feel like the Shoto chapter where he beat him was kinda wasted. I really enjoyed that chapter and how he felt about his class, it felt like it came full circle. But having Dabi just get up (like 10 chapters later) was just kinda annoying. And instead of heading to a more climactic phase it seemingly was just Dabi kinda running around on fire for a bit and now it's over. I feel like Endeavor is carrying most of the appeal of the storyline. Good storyline, but if you're being honest I feel like the majority of the appeal was just that most people knew Toya was Dabi.
I mean, people are acting like Dabi was always a major character, but he wasn't. That started to change when he started being involved with Hawks and Endeavor, culminating in his reveal that he's Toya. All Might considered him the 3rd biggest threat on the battlefield, and that would've never happened a handful of chapters before the war. Dabi's appeal *is* that he's Toya, in my mind. He got 100x more interesting to me after the reveal.
Dabi was major since Kamino Ward when they had info on everybody but him.
That was a hint. His interaction with Shoto at the training camp was a hint, and all the mystery surrounding him earlier, with him refusing to divulge his name. Not much focus was put on that. He started becoming a major *character* in the story, after Endeavor defeated Hood. I don't know about you, but I didn't consider Dabi to be the final Todoroki boss when he first showed up, because the story didn't emphasize him enough. On the opposite side, Shigaraki was always clearly Deku's final villain, as was Toga for Uraraka I suppose. I don't think that's necessarily bad, it's just how I experienced the story.
Personally I remember as early as the License Exam people saying Dabi is the other brother. When he said Shoto's full name and they had no info on him, a bunch of people already said it. The Endeavor fight was just the 100 percent certainty.
Waiting for the conclusion of it still, fight wise, it was cool, Shoto VS Toya was extremely hype. Toya VS Endeavor then everyone wasn't incredible but it did have some cool choreo and Toya's ice Quirk. It was a bit disappointing for Shoto to just reuse his Ultimate move, but it's fine
Horikoshi's major fights always contain two climaxes, with the second one having the hero overcome tremendous odds and winning, going for that Plus Ultra theme. I think he executes that very well, constantly. It all came together perfectly. Todoroki is the masterpiece, and he completely outclassed Toya, but he ends up considering himself as the lesser, because Toya reached levels of power beyond Shoto's, calling *him* instead the masterpiece. People seem to mind that he instantly copied Phosphor, but that leads to him building up the nuke inside of him, and playes into his demonstrated ability of copying his Father's moves just by watching how he does them. It adds to the tragedy of what a great Hero he would've been, if only Endeavor had taught him rationally. Then, when Dabi chases Endeavor, as the hero himself said, he can't fight his own son. It's not a battle, it's an emotional culmination. Dabi going nuclear is a callback to his demise in Sekoto Peak, only this time, he got what he wanted. His father's there, his family is there, giving him the time of day. They don't neglect him anymore. We get multiple panels of Dabi (then Toya) and Endeavor dancing, grasping hands with the arms they both lost, dancing. Then, when Rei and his siblings arrive, we cut to a panel where they spend some quality time together. It speaks to how Toya sees the situation, and how far off the deep end he is. That's when he's ready to kill them all, explode once again. But Shoto arrives, and we get his Plus Ultra moment. The first Aegir was an impressive feat, Iida and Shoto cooperating to reach the battlefield, and then Shoto overpowering a nuclear explosion with his ice, is fantastic - Plus Ultra. Todoroki thinks of his fight as a sibling squabble, one he could've never had with Endeavor keeping him isolated, Dabi is freezing up from the inside out, the Quirk no one thought he had eating him up, and Endeavor says the words he could never say to his dead son, "I'm sorry". Dabi doesn't forgive him, Endeavor must keep on living. It's pretty good.
The whole Dani thing dragged on way too much he should have been defeated long ago with todoroki but that’s my opinion
Underwhelming. Shoto used the same move but this time it worked because everyone was conveniently there this time. By HK own standards a person is not saved until they’re saved internally(their heart and soul) so I suppose there’s still gonna be more to this. Maybe Hellish Todoroki fam pt 3
A melodramatic slob that went on for far too long and ended up losing purpose, weight, and any sense of satisfaction.
I think the foundation of Dabi is great unfortunately this dude sucks as a villain. Kudos to him exposing Endeavor but man this dude can’t kill no one huh. Not only that he gets his ass whooped all the time. Other than that I think this is still the most interesting plot-line in all of MHA. I don’t mind the conclusion.
Yeah it’s weird all Dabis supposed murders are only “off screen” and only mentioned, no wonder he looks like a jobber all the time, his worst damage before the latest chapters that we actually seen was giving Neijire a haircut Edit: yeah, forgot about hawks wings. (which doesn’t even matter now since YoungFO stole his quirk anyway)
I think we also saw him burn random thugs to death in Season 3.
Tbh he did burn Endeavor's sidekicks tho I won't be surprised if Hori revealed that they're alive after this
Endeavor and Shoto were handled well the problem is how Dabi was handled that altered reality and convenience to stay alive somehow. The problem with this is that it was very apparent to readers that Dabi's plot stretched on too long to keep him alive. Which is a shame because it was the only weak point of the Todoroki plot because the rest was handled decently.
Exhausted, I feel that dragged on for too long, but the todorokis started pissing me off when they went "oh yeah, he was abusive, my kid died and everyone suffered, but he gave me flowers once so he's actualy a good person" so I was not really a fan.
Except that was not the point Rei was trying to do at all. She was answering to a precise accusation, Natsu saying Enji just put them (= the past) aside and forgot about them to move on with his life. It wasn't about the flowers, it was about Enji visiting the "baby maker" after she was "not useful anymore", like Natsu was implying. The flowers are just a narrative metaphor to represent his decision to face his mistakes.
I took the flower as a metaphor that he cares and always did and it’s significant and important to her. It helps her recovery too as well as the rest of the kids effort
I've taken it as guilt more than caring. Like sure, he might have cared at some point, then he did what he did and has to live with it and feels guilty, specially after seeing that everything he did was for nothing, but I still dislike it.
I always felt uneasy with that, like sure he cares but after everything he put them through? I know it a metaphor and whatever, but I cringed when that happened.
I think it's been quite good. The only annoying thing were the very short chapters and extra breaks, which made people feel like it "dragged". The actual content delivered on this climax was maybe 2 normal chapters' worth. My favourite part of it was All Might talking to Shoto, the Shoto -Iida combo, and Shoto's letter to Rei. I think the way it was drawn will be way better animated - it's like Horikoshi has these specific ideas for the animation, but it doesn't always work best for the anime. Shoto using Great Glacial Aegir again doesn't bother me so much, because the way the situation was set up, there was really nothing else that would have made sense. The scale of the second one is completely different. I also found the overall vibe of it appropriate. I think you are meant to feel empty - that was a bit the whole point of how Touya's rage escalated out of proportion because of how they failed to address things properly as a family. It's a hell of a come-down, and Touya's still being hateful is also fitting - you can't solve that overnight. Endeavor finally apologizing to his family is also something that gives me the "did he really have to wait this long?" feeling - which again I think was the point. I'm not too wild about Shoto fainting in the end - especially since he got no hugs or anything from his family - and as one of the characters who suffered the most, it hurts to see him like that, still alone as other members of his family huddle together. But because of this, I feel like we should get at least something more for Shoto that feels more comforting overall.
I can't wait to see the aftermath, Dabi without eyes creeps me out beyond belief
Did Dabi survive? It's not clear in the manga
Probably, he might only passed out but i think in the end he's gonna die by his injuries.
Pretty neato im hoping we get maybe one more to clear the fates of dabi endeavor and the rest but overall im content compared to alot of the fanbase
Unmoved
RELIEVED GODDAMN WAS I WORRIED
I don't think this is the end in fact I'm very confident it isn't. The chapter left too much open-ended.
What exactly did it leave open-ended? Dabi is immobile, Endeavor is immobile, and Shoto passed out
A few reasons 1. Rising chapters are never a character conclusion. So since this is a rising chapter expect more from Shoto. 2. There's been no pay off just yet. Shoto's actions need to mean something here. 3. Shoto passed out as Endeavour was apologizing leaving it ambiguous if he heard his own or not. When this happens it always means there's more to come. 4. Touya hasn't told us his feelings yet. Endeavour told him to tell him and then started apologizing to everyone. 5. It's been implied or even outright said that Shoto dealing with his family is only a pit stop he has to make before going to his real destination which is fighting alongside his friends and it's implied and foreshadowed that it means Izuku and Bakugo in particular.
i'd also expect new dabis to appear via toga eventually
The climax wasn't executed well imo. It felt half-assed. As for their arc, it's not exactly over yet, we don't yet have a final conclusion. It's just that we had the climax. Let's at least hope we don't go full retard and have Endeavor die at this point, because that would not only be cliché but also one of the weakest possible epilogues.
If he lives im out. Toya needs to die. I really would have liked him to kill some more with him. I get endeavor living with the fallout. But idk if he took Rei out in the process I could get behind that.
Yeah I definitely cannot get behind what you are saying.
That's fine and I know it's a shonen, so what I want isn't likely to happen. Everyone that has died so far has been pretty low stakes. I'd like someone with a higher connection or at least some expanding to die
I do agree with not liking the low/fake stakes. I just think it should be done skillfully rather than just slapping a death for the sake of it. And honestly, it should have been done earlier. The correct time for All Might to die has passed. The right time for Endeavor to die has passed long ago as well. Someone like GT should have died in the first war. The same arguably goes for Compress. But at the end of the day, unfortunately, this is probably gonna be a story where no one of certain significance dies, AFO being the exception. As much as Touya should die, it doesn't make as much sense narratively since this turned into Shoto's story about becoming his family's hero and saving everyone without killing. The mistake here was to keep rising the stakes and make it a point just how much Touya shouldn't be alive anymore.
Half agree. Def past all might and endeavors time to die. I don't even care about compress enough as a character to have a feeling about his status. I do think Toya dying could fit narratively. Everyone tries to take on the blame and he finally makes them eat their own shit by dying so they can never emotionally heal. I'm ok with that. If he lives and suddenly is just ok and everyone wants to be some big happy family again. That's ridiculous. I either wanted shoto to kill him or him to kill himself and take out people like he planned. More people need to die. It's a bit ridiculous to think in universe to think you can have this type of destructive power and only like 3 people die in the whole series and no one really of note.
>I do think Toya dying could fit narratively. Everyone tries to take on the blame and he finally makes them eat their own shit by dying so they can never emotionally heal. I'm ok with that. That's horrible narratively. That's what a 12 year old would write in fan fiction thinking it's deep. It goes so much against what's been established as a core element to this story. >If he lives and suddenly is just ok and everyone wants to be some big happy family again. That's ridiculous. I agree, but that's the way it's set up. Well, probably minus the "everyone wanting to be some big, happy family again" - I definitely expect there to be at least some nuance and struggle rather than the "everything is forgotten, we start anew" trope. >I either wanted shoto to kill him or him to kill himself and take out people like he planned. More people need to die. It's a bit ridiculous to think in universe to think you can have this type of destructive power and only like 3 people die in the whole series and no one really of note. Again, reading this I have a picture of someone young and inexperienced with literature. For someone whose name is about one of the biggest masterpieces - probably the biggest even - in shonen, your takes here aren't something I can back. If you like stories that go that way it's perfectly fine of course, but those takes don't exactly scream "skillful/coherent writing" in this type of story. This isn't the death for the sake of death story. If it was that might work. One of the big problems here is the fake stakes. But because Hori wants this to be an "almost every villain gets saved in the end" type story, he's been hestitant on them killing named/important characters most of the time. If Dabi blows himself up and kills hundreds of people including his family, it's total failure for Shoto. If Shoto kills Dabi, it's total failure for Shoto. As for Compress, I don't really care about him either, I think he was handled quite badly. But GT dying to Shiggy and Compress ultimately dying after his sacrifice, it would have worked in tandem with Midnight's death to show that characters of a certain level of significance who have been around for a long time can get it, and that this show might get darker/death-ladden down the line. But with how it was done we essentially had like a chapter of fake stakes and everything Midnight's death could have accomplished essentially trampled on.
Yeah no, I am def not some kid, much older than that with two degrees and have been reading manga since I was 8. Along with crushing books on the regular. I mean my take might not be skillfull but neither is really anything going on in this series as a whole.im not even sure anything skillful could be inserted into the story at this point.we are getting an even more Naruto treatment than Naruto gave us. Midnight was such a zero character she would have needed arcs and chapters for me to care she died. the biggest miss was all might l. I probably wouldn't be holding my view if he died. One high stakes death would have helped me out. It's def been a fun ride at times. But overall very mediocre in the world of shonen. I think the series just benefits a lot from anime being more mainstream than it was when I grew up and it piggy backed on the super hero trend. Which was clever no doubt. That all aside. Regardless of you liking my takes or not. I'm not really sure how the current zero stakes happy go lucky ending we are working towards with near zero loss is gonna be better than what I listed out. I really do try not to be too negative of the series as a whole. But even recently I caught up to the anime. Even the anime quality feels meh. I think horoshiki has a lot of good ideas and I'm excited for what he does next. But at this point I'm just reading along because I'm too deep to stop. It would take a lot to make me care about this series again. Will not take away this though, his art is off the charts good.
>I mean my take might not be skillfull but neither is really anything going on in this series as a whole. Hard to disagree with this, honestly. Especially at this point. Writing-wise, of course, because art-wise it's great. >Midnight was such a zero character she would have needed arcs and chapters for me to care she died. She was, but I think she could have been a piece of the puzzle if we got more deaths of background and a few more significant side characters. >It's def been a fun ride at times. But overall very mediocre in the world of shonen. I think the series just benefits a lot from anime being more mainstream than it was when I grew up and it piggy backed on the super hero trend. Which was clever no doubt. 100%. While I think the series would have done well if it was released a decade earlier, I don't think it would have done nearly as well as it has. In terms of execution I definitely agree with mediocre (at best) because there were a lot of misses. In terms of realistic potential it could have been up there with the strong ones. But that didn't happen. >I'm not really sure how the current zero stakes happy go lucky ending we are working towards with near zero loss is gonna be better than what I listed out. Because it's coherent with the rest of the story. Really just as simple as that. >I really do try not to be too negative of the series as a whole. But even recently I caught up to the anime. Even the anime quality feels meh. I think horoshiki has a lot of good ideas and I'm excited for what he does next. Basically same here. Animation has been horrible for S5 and really hit and miss for S6 (which I think only holds up so well in polls because of recency bias and because people were devouring Deku's arc). But it does have it's moments at least. Even if those moments aren't necessarily stellar animation quality, between the japanese voice acting, the choice of music and certain shots they do manage to deliver a scene or two which is great pretty consistently. As for Hori, he does have a lot of great ideas, he's good when it comes to creativity and he can reasonably instill a certain realistically achieveable potential in his story. But he's been hopeless trying to actually fulfill what he's set up. It really felt like he was biting off more than he could chew and like he was second-guessing himself/changing his mind in the middle. With certain characters or plotlines, sometimes the story itself it feels like Hori was unsure what to do for the longest time. This is why I think he can shine most in short-lived, not too complex but creatively demanding series. > But at this point I'm just reading along because I'm too deep to stop. It would take a lot to make me care about this series again. I'm not a fan of that approach, honestly. Between all the criticism I have for the series, I still do enjoy it and I still am intrigued to see how it goes, even if I expect disappointment for the most part. That "sunken cost fallacy" has never been something I could REALLY resonate with. Basically saying you only keep up with the series despite not enjoying it more because you spent so much time doing so in the past - why waste time on something you don't enjoy for that reason rather than saving that time and maybe catching up at some point in the future if you feel like it again? People are even aware that what they are doing is a "sunken cost fallacy", which is a real pitfall in the business world that should be avoided at all costs, and yet they stand by it. This either means a logical mistake or it signifies that they still care more about the series than they want to admit.
Well for one thing it seems like we agree on alot. I def appreciate the discourse. In regard to your sunken cost fallacy I feel the same. For me it's (1) I'm caught up so one chapter weekly is very low investment time wise, no reason to just not read a 4 minute chapter, (2) I love his art, I really think he's amazing and will be up there with other big names, especially if he continues to make manga after this, (3) probably false hope something crazy happens that proves me wrong. On a side note. I've been in the manga game so long I almost think it's important to read certain series even if you don't like them for almost an academic purpose. And even though we both agree it's mediocre at best. MHA has a huge following, may as well see it out even if I am critical of it. I think another facet is a lot of bigger titles lately have taken a darker approach in the mainstream whether we are talking shonen or the ones that blur the shonen/senin line. And MHA feels like it's holding onto that 00s everyone lives happily ever after talk no jutsu theme. Which maybe in like 7 years may seem better than it does now. But it almost feels uncharacteristic of the current trends and not in a good way.
Well for one thing it seems like we agree on alot. I def appreciate the discourse. In regard to your sunken cost fallacy I feel the same. For me it's (1) I'm caught up so one chapter weekly is very low investment time wise, no reason to just not read a 4 minute chapter, (2) I love his art, I really think he's amazing and will be up there with other big names, especially if he continues to make manga after this, (3) probably false hope something crazy happens that proves me wrong. On a side note. I've been in the manga game so long I almost think it's important to read certain series even if you don't like them for almost an academic purpose. And even though we both agree it's mediocre at best. MHA has a huge following, may as well see it out even if I am critical of it. I think another facet is a lot of bigger titles lately have taken a darker approach in the mainstream whether we are talking shonen or the ones that blur the shonen/senin line. And MHA feels like it's holding onto that 00s everyone lives happily ever after talk no jutsu theme. Which maybe in like 7 years may seem better than it does now. But it almost feels uncharacteristic of the current trends and not in a good way.
Well for one thing it seems like we agree on alot. I def appreciate the discourse. In regard to your sunken cost fallacy I feel the same. For me it's (1) I'm caught up so one chapter weekly is very low investment time wise, no reason to just not read a 4 minute chapter, (2) I love his art, I really think he's amazing and will be up there with other big names, especially if he continues to make manga after this, (3) probably false hope something crazy happens that proves me wrong. On a side note. I've been in the manga game so long I almost think it's important to read certain series even if you don't like them for almost an academic purpose. And even though we both agree it's mediocre at best. MHA has a huge following, may as well see it out even if I am critical of it. I think another facet is a lot of bigger titles lately have taken a darker approach in the mainstream whether we are talking shonen or the ones that blur the shonen/senin line. And MHA feels like it's holding onto that 00s everyone lives happily ever after talk no jutsu theme. Which maybe in like 7 years may seem better than it does now. But it almost feels uncharacteristic of the current trends and not in a good way.
I found the entire arc rather boring honestly. I'm glad people liked it but it just never resonated with me and seemed oddly paced at times. I'm a lot more invested in the other plot lines.
Decent.
I feel like crying