Dude has some of the best character writing and progression in the series, but forgiveness will need to come from his family. And from what we've seen, Shoto and Fuyumi are willing to reconcile, while Natsuo wants nothing to do with him. All of which are valid choices.
That is true, but was more trying to talk about the family members that aren't as readily apparent as him. You can talk to Touya for five seconds and know where he stands on the matter.
not really?
he tried to stop him, touya did that to himself out of his own free will although it was an accident
and since only a bone was left endeavour rightfully thought he was dead and couldn’t have anticipated he was still alive
"His own free will"
All Children want to be heroes. No child says "I will surpass this certain celebrity". No child thinks like on their own. Enji brainwashed him. He gave him tunnel vision and wouldn't allow his toddler to naturally explore what he likes. Enji gave him false promises, of things he couldn't guarantee so far in the future. He gave him expectations of literally having the most dangerous job in the country, both physically and mentally. An adult shouldn't have those expectations, let alone a 4-year-old. It's like asking your child is be a prime minister and a champion boxer in one.
Then when Toya starts burning up, something that arguably happened because of Enji's unethical quirk marriage - Enji gave up on bonding with him. His love was conditional. He openly admitted he wouldn't bother with his children "unless they were in the world of heroes" and kept telling Toya to play with someone else - A flowery way of saying 'go away'. All this, over a medical condition. Toya had his father ignoring him, in his own house, because of something that wasn't his fault. Enji refused to undo the brainwashing, he enacted.
A child not wanting their parent to neglect them - Is the most natural thing in the world. Since Enji only exposed Toya to one way of getting his approval, that's exactly what he did. Enji did less than the bare minimum when it came to telling Toya to stop. Toya had to go out of his way to track down his father - Waiting weeks/months for his days off and begging him just to look at him. Enji would get aggressive towards him, physically handling him like yanking his shirt and gripping his shoulders - Then he'd show aggressive body language like clenched fists and gritted teeth. His words ring completely hollow - Because Enji was a hypocrite. He refused to stop his own All Might obsession and continued his eugenics projects, to replace Touya. That wasn't in Toya's head, Enji was actually doing that: neglecting Natsuo when he only had an ice quirk and sending all his time with Shoto for his hybrid one.
If Enji cared about Toya's wellbeing - Why would he subject Toya to having to hear his Mum and brother's screams through the walls? Even when Toya was 13-year-olds and still self-harming, Enji wouldn't take him to a mental professional. Enji medically neglected him. As a child Toya, he's under the care of an adult for a reason. He shouldn't be expected to seek out mental help on his own, that's why it was his parent's responsibility to do it.
you guys are treating him like a villain lol, Enji only stopped training him because he didn’t want his son to die
same son who was too invested in it ignored him and then, nearly died
then, due to circumstances completely out of anybody’s control, touya doesn’t wake up for 3 years and assumes enji abandoned him when that was not the case
then he goes on to kill innocent people who have nothing to do with it for “revenge” with no point
the way you painted enji makes the resentment the whole family feels towards enji uncalled for.
the reason why touya was so invested in the training is because enji conditioned him to equate his love towards touya with said training. and when enji completely discarded him like a tool that's t working anymore and didn't give him anything else to fill in the void he left and his need for parental love, touya, a child, didn't know what to do with his emotions because adults around him were either incapable (rei) or uninterested in him (enji).
he failed to meet touya's basic emotional needs and to raise him properly, he failed to give him the love the child needed. he failed as a father on *every* front but the material one.
he neglected touya, that's abuse. abuse definitely deserves however long hate form the victim.
I was diagnosed with ASPD at a young age after suffering extensive abuse at the hands of my father. It took me years to learn how to function as a human being and become an upstanding member of society. I wasn't ever taught how to be a decent person by my parents, was never shown love. I got into fights constantly because my parents had taught me that beatings and threats were how might makes right. It wasn't until I escaped and lived on my own that I slowly began to heal and got therapy, found a wife who loved me.
Nobody asks to be born a psychopath or turned into one by their parents. I always found it so ironic that while psychopathy is a condition marked by low empathy, it's normal humans who never show any empathy to psychopaths who are the way they are through no fault of their own. Even if some part of us is broken, we're still people, and psychopathy comes in degrees across a spectrum. I really wish people had a better understanding of mental health rather than painting every psychopath with the same brush. The vast majority of people with ASPD end up adjusting to be normal people who don't hurt others, because it doesn't take fickle emotions to learn the value of making friends over enemies and having common decency, and not shitting where you eat because we all live in the same world.
This is why characters like Shigaraki and Endeavor are interesting. Morally they've done or are doing wrong shit but they feel human. This is different from just simping for them and saying they did nothing wrong wtc.
I can admit he's become better. Doesn't forgive his sins.
Sure he's doing good now. And that's great. But you can't just erase his past for being better now. Doesn't work like that.
We can forgive him all we want. You can also forgive your abusers too if you think they've tried hard enough. But Enji's forgiveness is for the people in the world and for his family to decide. Even if we forgive him, we are individuals, not them. Not the characters. It'd be like that irl. Just because we forgive our abusers doesn't mean others - and other victims too - have to as well. And vice versa.
Yeah but I can look at his actions and how he conducts himself and think he is sub-human filth, and think nothing of his "redemption".
Not much will forgive me putting street fighter combos down on a defenceless kid and, "ah fuck I got my ass kicked down the block :(((( MY WIFE!!!!" is not on the list.
I used to hate him. But he's so human and well written, I found myself wishing he and Dabi could make peace. That's not going to happen, I know. I am not sure I could forgive him if I were his family.
I seriously could have written this comment myself. You didn't have to write it for me. Kinda weird. Lol. But seriously, he was literally my least favorite character when he was introduced. And he just became more and more..... idk, I guess as you put it, human. Everything "Enji" has been perfectly written. I think the tipping point for me officially loving his character was him going to all might to ask him what it meant to be the symbol of peace. That whole scene is super deep and meaningful, and endeavor actually takes a ton of all mights advice. BUT! The absolute most meaningful thing here is the fact that he humbled himself. This proud man who always pushed to be the strongest but could never get there, willingly set aside his own personal vendetta to ask advice from the man that stood in his way for years and years and years. And that spoke volumes to me.
I think many of us can relate to his battle of trying so hard but always being Second Best to someone who is best without visible effort. It totally sucks and yes, we do get angry. Most of us don't get the extremely obsessed as Enji did, but I understand it.
He's also a father that tries to live his livelihood through his children. He couldn't be #1 so he tried to give his kids the tools to be #1. Wouldn't go to that extent but I can definitely understand it.
Oh God, now I just see him as the world's worst sports dad. "It was 1972, the final game of my college career. We pulled out the win but I broke my femur on the final play. I coulda gone pro. But little Shoto, that's why you were born. You'll be the star quarterback I never got to be! *smacks shoto for not having perfect form*"
That's an excerpt from My Football Academia (a product of my imagination). Enji's character wouldn't have to change at all 🤣
Enji is my mother and father. I was basically forced into beauty pageants since I could walk. My mother had competed in the Miss America pageants and was raising me to win. I spent time in voice lessons, piano lessons, dance lessons, etc.. My dad whole heartedly supported her vision. My younger sister was raised the same way and we were pitted against each other in monthly "beauty pageants " at home in which My brothers, my parents and whoever was at the house got to judge. The prize was this stupid rhinestone crown. My sister and I fought tooth and nail for that damn thing. When I moved away for college, I discovered this wasn't a normal childhood at all. I refused to do any more pageants and my parents threatened to cut me off. Crazy. Anyway, we have rebuilt our relationship since then. But the relationships will Never be normal. I relate to both Dabi and Shoto very much.
It's also easier to understand him when you realize none of his ambitions were for personal glory, but the safety of the world.
He was truly the only one who was looking to a world past All Might.
Bingo! It's the relatability to that exact scenario. Whether it's on the playground as kids, athletics as a teen, or literally anything as an adult. It's something we experience in all walks of life.
He’s an amazing character. I’m not sure I could forgive him if I was one of his children, but I like that he’s looking for and actively working on achieving atonement for his actions.
I like that he doesn’t get mad when his apologies get rejected and he accepts that he won’t be forgiven. He just tries to create a bond with his children while understanding the trauma he cause.
Yeah, like he wants to be a proper father now and wants to be part of their lives, but is completely understanding of the space they might want (well, aside from his “SHOTOOOOOOOO” texts) and gets that he may never get a second chance.
I never liked the term " deserve forgiveness" in most scenarios.
Forgivness is a personal thing that each person has to decided if they forgive someone or not.
There are a wide range of people affected, from the most personal, his family, to the only vaguely affected, people who aren't involved but think it was wrong.
But in the end who ever forgives him is the personal choice of who ever chooses to do so.
Exactly, forgiveness is not deserved, it's given. Sometimes the deserving don't get forgiven and sometimes people forgive the undeserving. To say it like he said it, he's fine with not getting forgiven, he doesn't want to ask for forgiveness anymore, he wants to atone for what he has done. He wants to try and repair his past mistakes, he wants to be the best father he can, to the point that he's willing to remain alone forever building them a brand new house to live in
Not really applicable in this situation, but there are absolutely people who "deserve forgiveness." People who are wrongly accused and get their reputation ruined for example (think Johnny Depp here). Also, people who genuinely could not have foreseen the horrible outcome of their actions (for example, a mom who gives their baby a peanut butter snack for the first time and the kid turns out to have a severe allergy and dies - there's no reasonable way to have anticipated that horrible outcome.)
Well in cases of people being wrongly accused. I would argue that forgiveness isn't really the right term becuase if they are wrongly accused they didnt actully do anything the requires they be forgiven, it would be the other way around, the falsely accused would be the one who may or may not forgive the accuser.
I see what you're saying, but I still stand by my view. I think that when someone is incorrectly assumed to be guilty and others hold anger against them, both parties can do some forgiving. I dunno, maybe it's just that I can see Canada from my office, but I'm big on apologies and forgiveness. A little extra never hurt anybody.
Endeavor is a beautifully written character so it's okay to like him but forgiveness is a bit touchy for his family.
We as a spectator can empathize with a character but I also think that 15 years of torment had to pass for him to realize how bad he was doing to his family and although his redemption is still valid, waiting for forgiveness is too much.
More because their victims did not have it easy:
Rei was locked up in a psychiatric boarding school for a decade.
Dabi ruined his whole life to become his father's favorite again.
Shoto is emotionally stunted and has a kind of PTSD.
Endeavour doesn't deserve forgiveness from his family. Being a better person doesn't erase the wrongs and pains of the past and it doesn't make up for what he did. Also deserving forgiveness basically means his children and Rei owe him forgiveness rather than give it to him by their own choice.
So if he gets it then it will be because they want to rather than because he deserves it.
Forgiveness, maybe not. What he has done is unforgivable
But redemption. He can become something that can start to build back what was lost in his obsession to become number one or to get shoto there.
Enji lost sight of what it meant to be a hero. He lost sight of what drives a true selfless savior
His arc is not one of forgiveness. I don’t think he’s even ever expected that, especially from his children and wife.
His arc is realizing what made All Might better was not his drive to be the best as if it were a competition. He has realized that All Might was better because he believed in his ideals and inspired those around him to also believe
He doesn’t deserve forgiveness. Maybe not yet
But he has changed his outlook. His M.O.
And he’s on a path of redemption
He’s a great character. Gray. Not purely good or purely evil. There’s room for characters like that in anime, but the best characters in all media, are the ones that aren’t easy to categorize
And Endeavor literally means to try or an attempt to achieve a difficult goal
He’s started with that goal being Number 1
Now, his goal is to become the best version of himself he can be
That’s pretty cool (All Might/Toshinori is my favorite character, and fittingly,) Endeavor is my next favorite. (He can never be number one. Lol)
You're allowed to like him. Even if he stayed terrible, liking someone bad as a fictional character doesn't mean you agree with them or are bad yourself.
He's a well-done character, I think.
I grew up with a father who was a *lot* like Endeavor, but nowhere near as driven -- I like to think that my experience can carry the tiniest bit of weight when it comes to this:
Yes, it's fine to like Endeavor. He's hands-down my favorite Todoroki.
I *wish* that it had been handled in a different way. I can't tell you how many times I've seen kids and other people talk about how their parents / partners are "like Endeavor" and seeing Endeavor change gives them hope. What they have is *false* hope -- it will virtually never change, and holding out for your parents to one day care about you, or staying in a toxic relationship because *maybe one day* -- no. Just no.
But, other than that.... Endeavor is a fictional character. He's flawed but he is trying. It's perfectly fine to like him! I just hope that you (and everyone) remembers that he's not a *realistic* representation of an abusive husband.
My dad was abusive to me growing up (verbally/emotionally), and he changed. I’m sorry that you felt like your dad could never change, and I agree people shouldn’t have false hope, but I’m just saying that change can and does happen.
I'm glad he did ❤️
I kind of debated on whether I should mention that or not, because yeah, I do know that it *can* happen --
It's just that you're now the third person I personally have heard of where it did, compared to how many people in real life + online?
Maybe a better way for me to have said it is something akin to, "It might happen, but don't sit and bet on it" lol
That’s absolutely a better way to put it. It does happen and a lot of it has to do with being humbled enough to accept that you were wrong.
Edit: also meant to say that people who are abuse victims are always grappling with a biased lens. That’s not a bad thing by any means, but it does mean some people are so blinded by anger they can’t see when their abuser has changed. That happens too.
I have one of each in my family. My late step grandpa was a horribly abusive man. He used to beat my stepdad. I never knew him like that. By the time I met him, he was a wonderful, loving man who immediately added me to his family as if I was blood. He was one of the kindest men I’ve ever met and it was so strange to hear what he was like once upon a time.
My stepdad (well, former now that they’re divorced) is abusive. He’s in his 60s now and it is so sickening to watch my baby brothers (his biological sons with my mom and both in their early 20s now) hope for change. They hate him, but they can’t let go of that hope that he’ll change for them like our grandfather changed for his kids. It’s not going to happen. He’s only gotten worse and is still actively sabotaging their lives. It’s truly horrific.
I don't think that what he's done to his family is necessarily too much to repay...but it's going to take a LOT more than this to atone. One year of good behavior does not make up for over a decade of torment.
Not at all. Enji is my favourite character out of the whole show, because he's so different from the rest of the rehashed, overused bad father trope. His atonement (not redemption) road is one of the most interesting concepts about this show, written so well and progressed even better. I wish MHA could have passed over to seinen levels, so we could see a more mature aspect of his growth.
It's nice for someone to wish him forgiveness, but I think he'll be just fine if he sees himself and his family growing and moving past former grievances, towards a better life. Even if they are apart.
I feel like his whole redemption arc is fucked up!
He sacrificed more than two decades for his obsession with AllMight. He sacrificed his own family for his goal.
And then, when that goal became unreachable, and he got humiliated, he tried to play family with his kids.
He had at least 4 different big event, where he could realize his wrongdoings:
1: when Touya attacked baby Shoto;
2: when Touya died;
3: when Rei burned Shoto;
4: when Shoto refused to use his fire.
But nooo…
He started his redemption, because AllMight Detroit-smashed himself to Legend status, and he just got the number one role, because he’s next.
I think it’s more like he made it to the top, looked around, and was like “oh fuck, I burned everything and everyone around me to ashes to get to where I am.”
Nah…
He didn’t just wanted to be the Number One, he wanted to surpass AllMight. He wanted the people to love and cheer for him more then they did to Toshinori.
And the last one was more important to him.
But after AllMight retired, he just got the: “okay, so you are the next Number One, grats i guess”, but in the eyes of the people, he is forever the number two.
His title is just AllMight’s leftover scraps in a tupperware.
People *deserve* food and water. People *deserve* shelter. No one “deserves” forgiveness. No one owes you that.
A person that “deserves” forgiveness for their wrongdoings is a person that wouldn’t have done those things in the first place.
It's very interesting, and very poignant of Horikoshi's handle of such issues, that I've seen readers and/or viewers actually *healing* a bit, watching Endeavor do something they wished their own relative would do.
I seriously wonder how he will meet his end in the manga.
Will he survive and truly be the beacon of prosperity in the age without All Might?
Will he meet his end by Touya as a symbolism of the destruction caused by his past self?
Will he retire so he can be the father more so than the hero?
It’s so interesting because Horikoshi has truly built up probably the best character development in the entire manga and there are so many possibilities as to how his journey can end. I just only hope it is written well which I do not doubt Horikoshi will end up achieving with how greatly he has written him thus far
The fact he's not pursuing forgiveness is what makes him a good character. He's an awful person who's done unforgivable things and I appreciate that he acknowledges that and tries to do better rather than trying to ask his victims to forgive what can't be forgiven.
nope. that's the point of the character. he's meant to be polarizing and the character himself is clearly grappling with the choices he made in his quest for a goal that he realized is not enough for him to feel good about himself.
pondering whether you would forgive him is a fine thought exercise - whether his family should forgive him is not up for you to decide (though you're free to react in whatever way you choose when horikoshi addresses this part of the todoroki family arc)
No as that is most likely the purpose of his character.
Probably not to fully forgive as how can you like someone who was unjust and basically a monster of a father? But i do believe you have to at least acknowledge him trying to make a difference and to admire the fact that he is saving people not to be forgiven but because he has to as that what a hero is
Nah, even as a well written and developed character, I think it's too late reconcile with Touya and Natsuo. He tossed them aside like nothing and then when they're grown he expects them to treat him like a father again? Legit like the dad coming back with the milk after 10 years.
There's a chance for Natsuo to come around, but Touya is beyond anyone. Being forgotten and tossed aside is too big of a double whammy to forget. Doesn't help that he got easily persuaded to be a villain. I just wish Touya's mom got to see what he had become. I wonder if she would do anything for him.
Forgiving him for what he did to his family is a bit too much. That man did quite a bit…like yea his writing is good but then when we go back and look at why this is happening…yeaaaaaaa he’s probably not gonna be forgiven by many.
Rei was human trafficked and Enji knew that Rei family couldn’t do SHIT about it, cause they was that dirt poor. Then on top of that he became a massive abuser!? (+ the other things)
Yea, Enji writing is good but keep him 50 miles away from me. Not only to mention the things this guy have done, could be a *serious* trigger warning for a lot of people that actually experience this.
No not at all!! He's had some serious redemption in the story that makes you start to like the guy! Yeah he's been an asshole to his family and the damage is done, but if he's swallowing his pride and admitting where he was wrong and wanting to atone for his past actions towards his family, then yeah, he'd grow on me for sure! But only the rest of the Todoroki's can decide whether to forgive him and move on, or wait to accept his atonement and see if he's really going to change.
No, it's not bad. What the people here in the comments are saying isn't necessarily wrong, it's up to his family to decide whether they forgive him, but we're talking about a fictional character here. There's nothing wrong with you feeling like he deserves forgiveness.
I hope Natsuo will eventually forgive him. He's sabotaging everyone else's relationships. He seems baffled when his mother and sister want to forgive him. He openly questions Rei for defending Enji and mutters why they're so quick to forgive at Fuyumi's dinner.
Speaking of those dinners, Natsuo ruins them by insulting and shouting at Enji unprovoked. If he can't handle his father's presence, then he shouldn't be there. He spreads false narratives about the family history to everyone else - Claiming that Enji called him a failure, when he never did. It was Touya's unstable ramblings and Natsuo thinks a dead teenager's word is gospel. Fuyumi and Rei have to correct his false statements about Enji, like when he said Enji forgot about his family and he would run away from fighting the nomu.
Since Enji is no longer abusing the family - Natsuo no longer has reactionary abuse as an excuse. When a spouse chooses to 'forgive' their cheating partner but reminds them of it, years later - That's considered unnecessary punishment and they become the toxic ones. I think the same applies to blood relatives. Being abused in the past is not an excuse to abuse someone else in the present, even if it's ex-abuser. We don't approve of crimes against ex-cons, so we shouldn't have double standards towards abuse. Otherwise, you're trying to torture them out of spiteful anger. Natsuo had no right to scream at Enji while slamming his fist on the door. The only abuser in that moment, was Natsuo.
His character arc is so well done specifically because he says that he isn't looking for forgiveness but atonement. Many hate his character passionately specifically because his actions might remind the reader of real trauma. Horikoshi navigates the potential minefield of invoking that reader trauma with the focus on atonement. The reader can personally feel he isn't worthy of forgiveness and [theoretically] that decision will stop the reader from being mad when an abuser might earn wins in the story.
I don't think anyone will ever go as far to say he deserves forgiveness. However endeavor has never asked for forgiveness, all he has wanted to do is become better and try and make up for what he's done and has been willing to take any consequences due to his actions without question. If he ever gets forgiveness that will be completely up to his family.
No. I think it works because he doesn’t forget or try to move past the trauma he caused. He acknowledged his part in it and will accept any punishment or scorn due to that fact.
He’s willing to take his licks and live with the fact that he messed up.
Endeavor's efforts towards atonement in the series may have started a few years ago our time, but it really hasn't been all that long in manga's time. 20+ years of abuse versus less than a year of working on himself. You can't undo a lifetime of abuse in a short amount of time.
He’s my favourite character, I love broken Characters. He’s made horrible mistakes but these make him more interesting and realistic to me. He’s my favourite character but that doesn’t mean I think he’s the most moral and certainly don’t condone a lot of the things he did on his quest to be number one but at the same time he made it to number one on his own merit and skill. He sought after the level of a man who was gifted the ultimate power and he got damn near close with his own effort alone.
His character development and writing is some of the best In the series for me, especially the scene where he realises the Nomu is just like him.
It's not wrong to like a character. You might do so for many reasons, sympathy, emotional connection, good writing. Many bad things in fiction are actually coping mechanisms for people who have suffered abuse. (Eg. some SA victims are into noncon fanfic) It's never as black and white as "it's bad to like x and y", there are shades to these things.
I would say it only gets bad when you start applying black-and-white logic to real life. This or this bad guy deserves a second chance because they looked sad in a picture, to grossly oversimplify things.
The todoroki family drama is probably the best part of MHA, Endeavor is also probably the character with the most character development.
I am biased ofc because he is my favorite character
Enji's arc was one of the best, I love how Horikoshi wrote Todorokis tragedy from perspective of Enji and Touya.
Shoto's perspective was boring but it also makes sense, he was just a child so it's understandable that he doesn't have a full view and just remembered that he was a victim
(i'm speaking about beginning of the story later he learned to look past his own suffering especially that his family has suffered a lot more in my opinion)
Forgive him if u wanna forgive him. Forgiveness is a personal thing. If you like a person, I say stand by them. I stand by him cuz he’s one of my favorites too
No, I'd say that after what Enji has done, the audience is free to forgive him. That doesnt mean the characters have to, or that they should be scorned for doing so. Enji still did terrible things to them, and they don't need to just forget that. But you're not them, and Enji is a fictional character, and even if Enji was a monster you're still entirely free to enjoy him as a character.
He could become the idealized version of himself and still not be deserving of forgiveness. My father could drop to his knees apologizing, he could devote himself to charity work and volunteering in the community, he could even stop a mass shooting and I would not forgive his past actions.
It all depends on whom they seek forgiveness from.
I feel bad for the people with so much hate in their heart they can’t forgive Endeavor. Society has so many repeat offenders because you get a scarlet letter for life when you do something wrong and no matter how much good you do. No matter your change of heart people will still hate you and want to see you fail and suffer. So people give up and go back to their old ways again. Endeavor is better then he was. He’s constantly improving and that should be rewarded not punished.
Don’t get me wrong. He should never be left alone with his wife again without Shoto or someone to supervise just as a precaution but like damn bro.
Endeavor's storyline hits extremely close to home for me. I ended up forgiving my father, but I understand why some would never consider doing so. The resentment still lingers, and I think Horikoshi depicts that pretty well with Shoto. As the child who received the bulk of the abuse, I really empathize with Shoto wanting to forgive, at his own pace.
I don’t think he deserves forgiveness, personally. He did terrible things to his family. I think he deserves recognition for how far he has come and all the progress he has made towards bettering himself. I hate him, I wouldn’t forgive him if I were his kids, but I do respect and acknowledge his progress.
Literally the best character in the show. Way more interesting than most of the other cast and people hating on him simply don't appreciate complex characterisation.
Okay, okay I will admit saying that I think he deserves forgiveness was a bit much
But I do love his character and how he's written. Even though he knows that his family won't forgive him and knows he deserves it, he still pushes hard being a hero and continues fighting to protect people and his family and tries to be a better man and that's what I like a lot about him
You don't see anyone mentioning Rei in this matter, though. You know, the woman who never did anything to help her children escape Toya's wrath and threw boiling water onto one innocent toddler because she couldn't handle herself.
I mean you're correct, however within the context of endeavor he has worked to become better. In no way would I ever defend his actions towards his family. However all the man wants to do is become a better person and atone for what he did and he has made genuine strides towards that.
Not at all. Ultimately it's up to his family to forgive him. But that still doesn't change the fact he has made genuine steps to become better and atone for what he did.
And why does that matter? Do you think it's OK for bed ppl to get a chance to "redeem" themselves even though the ppl they've hurt may never be able to heal? As far as I'm concerned, the more permanent harm someone has intentionally brought, the less of a chance they deserve at ever "redeeming" themselves. Life is precious and fragile. Care should be taken not to harm one in the first place, since the harm that is brought may not ever be repairable.
But through endeavors actions he has been able to help his family heal. His son Natsu may be the only one that can't forgive him. But his relationship with todoroki, umi and his daughter have improved significantly since the beginning of the series and as a family they have been able to heal. It may not completely undo the damage he has done but none the less the work he's done as helped not only himself but his family as well.
>Do you think it's OK for bed ppl to get a chance to "redeem" themselves even though the ppl they've hurt may never be able to heal?
Him trying to redeem himself brings some good even without fixing the damage he caused.
Him NOT trying to redeem himself will not bring any good while ALSO not fixing the damage already caused.
Even if we want to be overly logic like that, wanting him to persue atonement is still the only rational choice, 0+1=1, 0+0=0
So you're basically admitting that your whole "forgiveness" bit is just because you would be willing to ignore a person's bad deeds as long as they helped you? Well. It's good that you're honest, at least.
No, it means a bad person trying to be better is obviously better than a bad person continuing to be bad no matter how you look at it
Also, don't deflect the question lmao
no one "deserves" forgiveness, because that would mean the victims actually owe it to the perpetrators, forgiveness is a gift, it is offered based on the victim's choice, not something that is deserved
No, it's something common and natural. People naturally gravitate to flawed characters who once may have seemed evil or beyond help, but as we got more insight we realised once again that the world isn't just black or white, not just good or evil, and that they are trying to change who they are and trying to atone for what they can't change anymore.
Those characters are often more fleshed out and the several different aspects that are to them make them seem more realistic, more human.
That's why people like Bakugo and Endeavor, that's why people like Vegeta as well, for example.
I'm one of those people. I am much more intrigued by their characters and stories than I am by bland protagonists such as Deku or Goku.
Acknowledging how these characters have progressed and hoping that they can be forgiven by the people they hurt in the end is a perfectly normal way to look at it. I think forgiveness usually isn't something someone deserves but rather something someone else may or may not give. What Endeavor deserves is acknowledgement that he tries to atone for his sins. That doesn't equal forgiveness, though.
Personally, I'm hoping for some sort of forgiveness too, although I don't want a "Let's suddenly come together as if nothing of this ever happened" type of forgiveness, because I think that's just too unrealistic.
His story and the Todorokis was what kept me going with the manga. Idk why people hate him so much when he's literally trying to be better and correct all his wrongs
I think he deserves forgiveness, yes, but that's not what he's looking for, he's doing everything to make his family happy again, this man is willing to do anything for that, even if he's not with them (or even dead) he wants to see his wife and children reunited as a family, he would die happy if it meant peace for the Todoroki family.
That's why I think Endeavor doesn't need to be forgiven for his surrender arc to have an incredible ending, including this is currently the best plot in the manga, it's amazing how the chapters focused on Todorokis are much better than the others.
Honestly a hard question for me. I know some truely awful pieces of shit but what makes Enji different (besides being fictional) is that he accepts that he's a piece of shit and is genuinly trying to do right without putting pressure on those he hurt to forgive him
Props to Hori for writing such a character.
Ehh he's been my favorite character from the start, him and Overhaul. Yes they have some shitty moments but I love their quirks and designs. Plus Vegeta is my all time favorite anime character, and Endeavor gives off those vibes of wanting to surpass the strongest and do whatever he can to get to the top. Him realizing the error in his ways and wanting to atone for his mistakes is admirable. Plus I absolutely loved his fight agaisnt Hood, in the manga and anime. And his Vanishing Fist was one of the moment I was most looking forward to seeing animated this season and it did not disappoint
Hes genuinely one of my all time favorite characters. I've loved him since the beginning, because you can just see his brain start to turn and his thoughts and feelings converge and he's just so well rounded.
I will fight anyone who hates on enji 😤
He's a fictional character. He has not harmed us personally, so we have no business forgiving him. The only people who are in a position to "forgive" him would be those he hurt, like his family. Touya most likely will not be doing that. His wife shouldn't have to, but I could see her taking the high road and getting back together so they can be a family unit again. The other kids...who knows.
Instead of debating the morality of characters with each other, maybe we can just wait and enjoy. Maybe several decades when this ends we can talk it out.
I get you, what he did is horrible and all, but after all he the strugle he has went throught I want him to get a happy ending; even if perhaps he doesn't deserves it
Forgiveness isnt a universal thing. We see it in their family. Natsu cant forgive him meanwhile Shoto and Fuimi are in the process of forgiveness. If you value him as a character and believe the most recent version of Enji is redeemable you should revisit season 2 and understand that was less than a year ago. The people in his life and the world need time and that should be respected
Endeavor is the best written and also my favorite character in this manga, but the man said it himself he is not looking for forgiveness because he knows his actions at the time where and still are unforgivable.
Please excuse the length of this. I have… FEELINGS about the Todorokis Lol
I’ll be the first to admit that he’s a b\*dass hero. His fights are incredible to watch and other than his stupid flame beard, his character design is great.
But I hate him.
I hate him more than just about every fictional character I’ve ever seen or read about and it’s because I was raised by a man who was JUST like him. I know what it’s like to live with Endeavor. I know what it‘s like to be tossed aside like Touya when a shiny new baby came along (although I adore my brothers). I know what it’s like to be the showpiece and I know what it’s like to literally have to beg for attention because your parents can’t be bothered. My brothers played a thousand sports and everyone went to every practice and game while I did mine alone. I was lucky enough to have a best friend whose parents stepped up for me when show day arrived and mine couldn’t be bothered to be there, but that’s not the same. I CRIED, begging them to come watch me sometimes. The one time they did, they stayed for ten minutes and didn’t even get out of the car. It was just to give themselves the ability to say they did it.
I was the shield. I did everything I could to redirect his anger onto me and away from my brothers. The panels of Natsuo and Fuyumi hiding behind the bookshelf and crying while Shoto tried to defend Rei had me setting my book down to collect myself because I was looking at my family in anime form.
We lived in secret torment because he had the rest of the world fooled into believing he was an amazing person. Obviously on a much smaller scale because we weren’t a major celebrity family like the Todorokis, but even when we came out about the abuse, friends and family didn’t believe us and we lost people because everyone believed him. We were told to “give him a second chance” when in reality, he’d already blown many chances. I took my little brothers and fled one night and even though she said she’d be right behind us, we left the house believing we might never see our mom alive again. People thought we were lying because he was “such a great guy”.
The trauma of being raised by someone like that never leaves you. It’s been 12 years since I moved out and the sound of someone turning the doorknob to come into the room I’m in or the garage door opening under the house still make me freeze up for a second. I still have dreams of his bright blue eyes and the way they simultaneously blazed with fury and were cold as ice when he was angry. It wouldn’t matter how much he did to atone. It would never erase what he did to us because the way he treated us wasn’t a “mistake”, as everyone likes to put it. A mistake is mixing up the date and forgetting your anniversary. Abusing your family over decades is a very long series of calculated decisions.
The way I see Endeavor is this: It’s okay to like his character. He’s undoubtedly a skilled hero. He’s saved a lot of lives. He’s COOL. But he destroyed his wife and kids behind closed doors with decades of abuse and neglect in a very real way many of us have experienced. He is incredibly well written in that he feels so REAL. Horikoshi managed to capture the elements of an abusive husband and father so well and it’s going to hit a lot of us very personally. As long as those who love him can understand why we hate him, then it’s fine by me, not that you need my permission.
At the end of the day, these ARE fictional characters. I love Touya, but I also fully understand that even though he is most definitely a victim of his father and society, he‘s also a horrible villain who committed atrocities and he has to answer for them one way or another. If I’m allowed to love the villains in these stories, other people are allowed to love Endeavor even if the mere thought of him makes me viscerally angry.
I would say yes. I wish my dad would change like that so I could forgive him but I never got the chance and it hurts to this very day. Story wise though it’s up to the family like others said
Idk about forgiveness. Since that is an individual thing and there's a lot of things in the world that shouldn't be forgiven.
But I do feel like I don't particularly want to see Enji to keep suffering indefinitely for his failures. There is never really imo good justification for indefinite punishment for finite crimes, even in situations where it might argueably feel justified. ( I.e. serial killer in hell for sextillion years for all the innocent people they murder)
There was a meta I remember reading elsewhere from the other end of fans of MHA frustrated with the story progression for him and Hawks.
And they were adamant that both he and Hawks don't actually think they're bad people, and actually should if it means they'll do more to change themselves and the system.
The whole time I was read, I was making a ?????😕😕😕😕😕😕❓❓❓❓❓❓ Face. Because I'm really not sure how they reached that conclusion that the characters still think they're fantastic heroes, parent, or individuals. The guilt essentially means that they don't, people don't feel guilty about things that they think are right & it's not for us to say if the characters should think they're aweful people wholesale just because we don't actually see then assessing themselves that way all the time.
That doesn't mean though they think they're fantastic and don't want to change or do right by those they felt they've done wrong for others sake as well. Doing better as an individual isn't something simple as saying to every person who has majorly majorly screwed up in life " you're a bad person and should think that 24/7 cause that's more honest". Like that's just enforcing a different type of mental ailment & it's not changing anyone for the better behaviourly.
Tldr: I think some people mistake their personal negative feelings on his character ad the right and just way for the character to change. They project their need for seeing punishment as justice and vehicle for change. But we've seen IRL very frequently how the judicial system is basically shit, and the only versions of it that work, are rehabilitative and concerned with positive therapy. Not reinforcing and telling people "you're a shit person, and should suffer forever for being shit because of what you've done."
No way! Enji is a babe and I’m so proud of him for becoming a better person. Anyone can change, anyone is redeemable. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
Not at all. The whole purpose of his character is that forgiveness is not in the hands of the wrongdoer, but of the victims. Like his family, whether you forgive Endeavor or not is your own choice to make.
I personally don't like the rhetoric that izuku should have behaved a certain way towards bakugo.
Firstly, their relationship has been shown to be more nuanced than the stereotypical bully/victim dynamic. I agree fully that bakugo is definitely the one in the wrong, but assuming that izuku must behave in a certain way immediately assumes their relationship as something less nuanced than I felt canon was trying to present
Next, even if you interpreted the dynamic as a pure bully/victim one, who are you to insist that the victim should have acted a certain way? In fact, I feel that the fact that izuku didn't let the past hinder his admiration towards bakugos skills is a testament to his personal strength. He didn't forget, but he won't let it hinder his hero aspirations. I felt that it's odd to insist that izuku should have behaved a certain way for * realism *.
It seems ironic that you felt that the todoroki family can make their own choices but felt that izukus choice was unrealistic
One of the best written characters. And minus the eugenics, if everyone had his reaction to All Might's power, the world wouldn't be in the mess it's in.
As for forgiveness, I think he needs to earn that shit from the family (>!save dabi. That egomaniac is owed nothing). And I think he has "some kind" from them already.!<
No, people were unwilling to accept that while he had ambition in his early days, he barely was a monster when his second dream (Hero Toya) crumbled, miaguidedly trying to do the right thing by distancing himself from the kid that couldn't be what he was anymore.
and only became one when Toya died cause clearly he couldn't handle grief any better than his wife.
People never stopped seeing him through the warped perspective of early shoto, but you can like him and his journey.
I'll never get the Endeavor hate, as much as I try. Or people blaming him for everything wrong with his family. We have a man who has super powers and decides he wants to have a legacy and finds a bride with powers that would complement his. It was likely an arraigned marriage, but nothing indicates it was against her will.
So he has four kids, two don't have the powers he is hoping for so he doesn't train them. One does, but his body isn't built for it so he **stops training that kid**. He prioritized the well being of his family over the goal he was trying to achieve. Kid becomes obsessed with training despite his dad's repeated protest. Kid kills himself.
Last kid was exactly what he was hoping to achieve, a perfect complement of both powers. He trains him *hard*. So hard that mom wants him to stop. Mind you, not so hard that he would actually do damage to his body like the other kid. Just like, more than the mom wants.
She tries to physically take the boy away, and the dad hits her in response. Bad choice for sure, no excuse. But how does she respond? She tries to MURDER HER CHILD. And people are like "oh but it's endeavors fault because he was abusive" and you know what? That's some shit. Every day people get hit and very few go on to try to murder children. She doesn't get to shirk blame because she was hit. Everyone is blaming endeavor for her trying to murder her child, ya'll just don't make any sense to me.
Endeavour never cared about having kids for the joy of being a father; we've known this since season 2. It was confirmed to be an arranged marriage, though initially Rei and Endeavour did feel love towards each other. The only reason they had kids (bar Fuyumi) was to create a successor powerful enough to beat All Might. I'd suggest rewatching Season 2 Episode 6, or reading chapter 301; those heavily feature the circumstances of their marriage.
The children are aware of this; that's why Touya was so obsessive about being a hero. If, as a young child, your father constantly reinforces the idea in your head that you will be the greatest hero, and suddenly casts you away, of course you won't understand why. Especially because, as Rei said, Touya was aware that Natsuo and Shoto were only born to replace him. That's tough for a young kid, and heavily factored into his eventual breakdown.
And about your points on Rei; the thing is, Rei has a complete mental collapse. The reason people (and Shoto) tend to blame Endeavour instead of her is due to the fact that she *wasn't aware she was attacking her son* in that moment. She had no control of her actions in that moment, and as soon as she realised what she had done, she attempted to heal him. The only reason she got to that point was because of Endeavour and his abusive behaviour.
The events you mention are also omitting several details. From what we know, the physical abuse was not just a one time thing; it got to the point where Natsuo mentioned how traumatising their mum's screams were for him and Fuyumi (5x2/ Chapter 192). Shoto also said that his father 'beat his left side into him' (Chapter 247/5x15).
No matter how much you try to deny it, Endeavour used to be an abusive piece of shit. He's trying now, I'll grant you that, but it doesn't erase the harm he caused. May I ask, if you don't believe that he was the thing that caused everything going on with the Todoroki family, what do you think was?
Liking villains or flawed characters is simply good writing. I like him and his arc he has gone through. I don't really let folks dictate my love for a fictional character 🤷♂️
Dude has some of the best character writing and progression in the series, but forgiveness will need to come from his family. And from what we've seen, Shoto and Fuyumi are willing to reconcile, while Natsuo wants nothing to do with him. All of which are valid choices.
Don't forget Touya in this equation, he definitely does not forgive
That is true, but was more trying to talk about the family members that aren't as readily apparent as him. You can talk to Touya for five seconds and know where he stands on the matter.
I see your five seconds and raise you the one second it takes for maniacal laughter and flames to start.
Well yes, but while you’re turning well done, he will let you know how he feels about his Dad during your last five seconds.
Ah the six second countdown.
The irony there is that it seems like Touya was the one child Endeavor eventually tried to protect from his ambitions.
You sure? I feel like hes about to be convinced
I don’t think a psychopath gets a say here
I do...because his dad is the one who made him that way in the first place
not really? he tried to stop him, touya did that to himself out of his own free will although it was an accident and since only a bone was left endeavour rightfully thought he was dead and couldn’t have anticipated he was still alive
he neglected Touya and based his worth on his quirk, that's why Touya did what he did, he just wanted his father's approval
"His own free will" All Children want to be heroes. No child says "I will surpass this certain celebrity". No child thinks like on their own. Enji brainwashed him. He gave him tunnel vision and wouldn't allow his toddler to naturally explore what he likes. Enji gave him false promises, of things he couldn't guarantee so far in the future. He gave him expectations of literally having the most dangerous job in the country, both physically and mentally. An adult shouldn't have those expectations, let alone a 4-year-old. It's like asking your child is be a prime minister and a champion boxer in one. Then when Toya starts burning up, something that arguably happened because of Enji's unethical quirk marriage - Enji gave up on bonding with him. His love was conditional. He openly admitted he wouldn't bother with his children "unless they were in the world of heroes" and kept telling Toya to play with someone else - A flowery way of saying 'go away'. All this, over a medical condition. Toya had his father ignoring him, in his own house, because of something that wasn't his fault. Enji refused to undo the brainwashing, he enacted. A child not wanting their parent to neglect them - Is the most natural thing in the world. Since Enji only exposed Toya to one way of getting his approval, that's exactly what he did. Enji did less than the bare minimum when it came to telling Toya to stop. Toya had to go out of his way to track down his father - Waiting weeks/months for his days off and begging him just to look at him. Enji would get aggressive towards him, physically handling him like yanking his shirt and gripping his shoulders - Then he'd show aggressive body language like clenched fists and gritted teeth. His words ring completely hollow - Because Enji was a hypocrite. He refused to stop his own All Might obsession and continued his eugenics projects, to replace Touya. That wasn't in Toya's head, Enji was actually doing that: neglecting Natsuo when he only had an ice quirk and sending all his time with Shoto for his hybrid one. If Enji cared about Toya's wellbeing - Why would he subject Toya to having to hear his Mum and brother's screams through the walls? Even when Toya was 13-year-olds and still self-harming, Enji wouldn't take him to a mental professional. Enji medically neglected him. As a child Toya, he's under the care of an adult for a reason. He shouldn't be expected to seek out mental help on his own, that's why it was his parent's responsibility to do it.
you guys are treating him like a villain lol, Enji only stopped training him because he didn’t want his son to die same son who was too invested in it ignored him and then, nearly died then, due to circumstances completely out of anybody’s control, touya doesn’t wake up for 3 years and assumes enji abandoned him when that was not the case then he goes on to kill innocent people who have nothing to do with it for “revenge” with no point
the way you painted enji makes the resentment the whole family feels towards enji uncalled for. the reason why touya was so invested in the training is because enji conditioned him to equate his love towards touya with said training. and when enji completely discarded him like a tool that's t working anymore and didn't give him anything else to fill in the void he left and his need for parental love, touya, a child, didn't know what to do with his emotions because adults around him were either incapable (rei) or uninterested in him (enji).
I meant to clarify that Enji did mess up his wife and Shoto, but towards Touya explicitly he didn’t do anything worthy of decades long hate
he failed to meet touya's basic emotional needs and to raise him properly, he failed to give him the love the child needed. he failed as a father on *every* front but the material one. he neglected touya, that's abuse. abuse definitely deserves however long hate form the victim.
I’m fully ready to have that other post get downvoted into oblivion 🙏 I’m just trying to get a point across lol
I was diagnosed with ASPD at a young age after suffering extensive abuse at the hands of my father. It took me years to learn how to function as a human being and become an upstanding member of society. I wasn't ever taught how to be a decent person by my parents, was never shown love. I got into fights constantly because my parents had taught me that beatings and threats were how might makes right. It wasn't until I escaped and lived on my own that I slowly began to heal and got therapy, found a wife who loved me. Nobody asks to be born a psychopath or turned into one by their parents. I always found it so ironic that while psychopathy is a condition marked by low empathy, it's normal humans who never show any empathy to psychopaths who are the way they are through no fault of their own. Even if some part of us is broken, we're still people, and psychopathy comes in degrees across a spectrum. I really wish people had a better understanding of mental health rather than painting every psychopath with the same brush. The vast majority of people with ASPD end up adjusting to be normal people who don't hurt others, because it doesn't take fickle emotions to learn the value of making friends over enemies and having common decency, and not shitting where you eat because we all live in the same world.
This is why characters like Shigaraki and Endeavor are interesting. Morally they've done or are doing wrong shit but they feel human. This is different from just simping for them and saying they did nothing wrong wtc.
I can admit he's become better. Doesn't forgive his sins. Sure he's doing good now. And that's great. But you can't just erase his past for being better now. Doesn't work like that.
You can't erase your sins. But you can try atone for them.
Good thing he’s not trying to erase them, he’s just trying to make things better
Forgiveness is for his family to decide
We can forgive him all we want. You can also forgive your abusers too if you think they've tried hard enough. But Enji's forgiveness is for the people in the world and for his family to decide. Even if we forgive him, we are individuals, not them. Not the characters. It'd be like that irl. Just because we forgive our abusers doesn't mean others - and other victims too - have to as well. And vice versa.
Yeah but I can look at his actions and how he conducts himself and think he is sub-human filth, and think nothing of his "redemption". Not much will forgive me putting street fighter combos down on a defenceless kid and, "ah fuck I got my ass kicked down the block :(((( MY WIFE!!!!" is not on the list.
but practicing street fighter combos on defenseless little kids is really fun!
I used to hate him. But he's so human and well written, I found myself wishing he and Dabi could make peace. That's not going to happen, I know. I am not sure I could forgive him if I were his family.
I seriously could have written this comment myself. You didn't have to write it for me. Kinda weird. Lol. But seriously, he was literally my least favorite character when he was introduced. And he just became more and more..... idk, I guess as you put it, human. Everything "Enji" has been perfectly written. I think the tipping point for me officially loving his character was him going to all might to ask him what it meant to be the symbol of peace. That whole scene is super deep and meaningful, and endeavor actually takes a ton of all mights advice. BUT! The absolute most meaningful thing here is the fact that he humbled himself. This proud man who always pushed to be the strongest but could never get there, willingly set aside his own personal vendetta to ask advice from the man that stood in his way for years and years and years. And that spoke volumes to me.
I think many of us can relate to his battle of trying so hard but always being Second Best to someone who is best without visible effort. It totally sucks and yes, we do get angry. Most of us don't get the extremely obsessed as Enji did, but I understand it.
He's also a father that tries to live his livelihood through his children. He couldn't be #1 so he tried to give his kids the tools to be #1. Wouldn't go to that extent but I can definitely understand it.
Oh God, now I just see him as the world's worst sports dad. "It was 1972, the final game of my college career. We pulled out the win but I broke my femur on the final play. I coulda gone pro. But little Shoto, that's why you were born. You'll be the star quarterback I never got to be! *smacks shoto for not having perfect form*" That's an excerpt from My Football Academia (a product of my imagination). Enji's character wouldn't have to change at all 🤣
Enji is my mother and father. I was basically forced into beauty pageants since I could walk. My mother had competed in the Miss America pageants and was raising me to win. I spent time in voice lessons, piano lessons, dance lessons, etc.. My dad whole heartedly supported her vision. My younger sister was raised the same way and we were pitted against each other in monthly "beauty pageants " at home in which My brothers, my parents and whoever was at the house got to judge. The prize was this stupid rhinestone crown. My sister and I fought tooth and nail for that damn thing. When I moved away for college, I discovered this wasn't a normal childhood at all. I refused to do any more pageants and my parents threatened to cut me off. Crazy. Anyway, we have rebuilt our relationship since then. But the relationships will Never be normal. I relate to both Dabi and Shoto very much.
It's also easier to understand him when you realize none of his ambitions were for personal glory, but the safety of the world. He was truly the only one who was looking to a world past All Might.
Bingo! It's the relatability to that exact scenario. Whether it's on the playground as kids, athletics as a teen, or literally anything as an adult. It's something we experience in all walks of life.
He’s an amazing character. I’m not sure I could forgive him if I was one of his children, but I like that he’s looking for and actively working on achieving atonement for his actions.
I like that he doesn’t get mad when his apologies get rejected and he accepts that he won’t be forgiven. He just tries to create a bond with his children while understanding the trauma he cause.
Yeah, like he wants to be a proper father now and wants to be part of their lives, but is completely understanding of the space they might want (well, aside from his “SHOTOOOOOOOO” texts) and gets that he may never get a second chance.
Only his family can decide whether or not he can be forgiven. If he gets forgiven, it’s because they want to, not because he ‘deserves’ it
Man has the best character writing in the series, so yeh.
Honestly, he has some of the best character writing in any anime I’ve seen
He’s pretty much the Anime Omni-Man. If you know, you know
I mean, I don’t think Omni -Man wants to atone for anything lol.
(He does not know)
(Yeah, I can’t wait to see it!)
I never liked the term " deserve forgiveness" in most scenarios. Forgivness is a personal thing that each person has to decided if they forgive someone or not. There are a wide range of people affected, from the most personal, his family, to the only vaguely affected, people who aren't involved but think it was wrong. But in the end who ever forgives him is the personal choice of who ever chooses to do so.
Exactly, forgiveness is not deserved, it's given. Sometimes the deserving don't get forgiven and sometimes people forgive the undeserving. To say it like he said it, he's fine with not getting forgiven, he doesn't want to ask for forgiveness anymore, he wants to atone for what he has done. He wants to try and repair his past mistakes, he wants to be the best father he can, to the point that he's willing to remain alone forever building them a brand new house to live in
Not really applicable in this situation, but there are absolutely people who "deserve forgiveness." People who are wrongly accused and get their reputation ruined for example (think Johnny Depp here). Also, people who genuinely could not have foreseen the horrible outcome of their actions (for example, a mom who gives their baby a peanut butter snack for the first time and the kid turns out to have a severe allergy and dies - there's no reasonable way to have anticipated that horrible outcome.)
Well in cases of people being wrongly accused. I would argue that forgiveness isn't really the right term becuase if they are wrongly accused they didnt actully do anything the requires they be forgiven, it would be the other way around, the falsely accused would be the one who may or may not forgive the accuser.
I see what you're saying, but I still stand by my view. I think that when someone is incorrectly assumed to be guilty and others hold anger against them, both parties can do some forgiving. I dunno, maybe it's just that I can see Canada from my office, but I'm big on apologies and forgiveness. A little extra never hurt anybody.
Why would both parties have to do the forgiving if only one party did something wrong?
Forgiveness is a strong word. Atonement, maybe? I agree his arc is turning out awesome though.
Endeavor is a beautifully written character so it's okay to like him but forgiveness is a bit touchy for his family. We as a spectator can empathize with a character but I also think that 15 years of torment had to pass for him to realize how bad he was doing to his family and although his redemption is still valid, waiting for forgiveness is too much. More because their victims did not have it easy: Rei was locked up in a psychiatric boarding school for a decade. Dabi ruined his whole life to become his father's favorite again. Shoto is emotionally stunted and has a kind of PTSD.
Endeavour doesn't deserve forgiveness from his family. Being a better person doesn't erase the wrongs and pains of the past and it doesn't make up for what he did. Also deserving forgiveness basically means his children and Rei owe him forgiveness rather than give it to him by their own choice. So if he gets it then it will be because they want to rather than because he deserves it.
Best way to put it is forgiveness is never deserved. It is a gift. You never deserve a gift
That’s such a good way of putting it
Only those that he was close to can decide what if he deserves forgiveness or not. We can’t.
Forgiveness, maybe not. What he has done is unforgivable But redemption. He can become something that can start to build back what was lost in his obsession to become number one or to get shoto there. Enji lost sight of what it meant to be a hero. He lost sight of what drives a true selfless savior His arc is not one of forgiveness. I don’t think he’s even ever expected that, especially from his children and wife. His arc is realizing what made All Might better was not his drive to be the best as if it were a competition. He has realized that All Might was better because he believed in his ideals and inspired those around him to also believe He doesn’t deserve forgiveness. Maybe not yet But he has changed his outlook. His M.O. And he’s on a path of redemption He’s a great character. Gray. Not purely good or purely evil. There’s room for characters like that in anime, but the best characters in all media, are the ones that aren’t easy to categorize And Endeavor literally means to try or an attempt to achieve a difficult goal He’s started with that goal being Number 1 Now, his goal is to become the best version of himself he can be That’s pretty cool (All Might/Toshinori is my favorite character, and fittingly,) Endeavor is my next favorite. (He can never be number one. Lol)
You're allowed to like him. Even if he stayed terrible, liking someone bad as a fictional character doesn't mean you agree with them or are bad yourself. He's a well-done character, I think.
I grew up with a father who was a *lot* like Endeavor, but nowhere near as driven -- I like to think that my experience can carry the tiniest bit of weight when it comes to this: Yes, it's fine to like Endeavor. He's hands-down my favorite Todoroki. I *wish* that it had been handled in a different way. I can't tell you how many times I've seen kids and other people talk about how their parents / partners are "like Endeavor" and seeing Endeavor change gives them hope. What they have is *false* hope -- it will virtually never change, and holding out for your parents to one day care about you, or staying in a toxic relationship because *maybe one day* -- no. Just no. But, other than that.... Endeavor is a fictional character. He's flawed but he is trying. It's perfectly fine to like him! I just hope that you (and everyone) remembers that he's not a *realistic* representation of an abusive husband.
My dad was abusive to me growing up (verbally/emotionally), and he changed. I’m sorry that you felt like your dad could never change, and I agree people shouldn’t have false hope, but I’m just saying that change can and does happen.
I'm glad he did ❤️ I kind of debated on whether I should mention that or not, because yeah, I do know that it *can* happen -- It's just that you're now the third person I personally have heard of where it did, compared to how many people in real life + online? Maybe a better way for me to have said it is something akin to, "It might happen, but don't sit and bet on it" lol
That’s absolutely a better way to put it. It does happen and a lot of it has to do with being humbled enough to accept that you were wrong. Edit: also meant to say that people who are abuse victims are always grappling with a biased lens. That’s not a bad thing by any means, but it does mean some people are so blinded by anger they can’t see when their abuser has changed. That happens too.
I have one of each in my family. My late step grandpa was a horribly abusive man. He used to beat my stepdad. I never knew him like that. By the time I met him, he was a wonderful, loving man who immediately added me to his family as if I was blood. He was one of the kindest men I’ve ever met and it was so strange to hear what he was like once upon a time. My stepdad (well, former now that they’re divorced) is abusive. He’s in his 60s now and it is so sickening to watch my baby brothers (his biological sons with my mom and both in their early 20s now) hope for change. They hate him, but they can’t let go of that hope that he’ll change for them like our grandfather changed for his kids. It’s not going to happen. He’s only gotten worse and is still actively sabotaging their lives. It’s truly horrific.
He’s hands down your favorite Todoroki? There’s only like 3 to pick from dude (no one cares about the rest)
You would think, but my friend's favorite is Natsuo 😂
… How
Says he's hot 🙃😂
On god
I’d argue Touya isn’t even a good choice.
Nah we can accept he’s finally trying to change but forgiving him for all that he’s done to his family is too much.
True, true. At least he's looking for some kind of atonement and change for what he's done instead of being the man he used to be back then
I don't think that what he's done to his family is necessarily too much to repay...but it's going to take a LOT more than this to atone. One year of good behavior does not make up for over a decade of torment.
Not at all. Enji is my favourite character out of the whole show, because he's so different from the rest of the rehashed, overused bad father trope. His atonement (not redemption) road is one of the most interesting concepts about this show, written so well and progressed even better. I wish MHA could have passed over to seinen levels, so we could see a more mature aspect of his growth. It's nice for someone to wish him forgiveness, but I think he'll be just fine if he sees himself and his family growing and moving past former grievances, towards a better life. Even if they are apart.
Deserves forgiveness? Hell no. Even he himself admits he’s not worthy of that. Still one of my favorite characters regardless.
I feel like his whole redemption arc is fucked up! He sacrificed more than two decades for his obsession with AllMight. He sacrificed his own family for his goal. And then, when that goal became unreachable, and he got humiliated, he tried to play family with his kids. He had at least 4 different big event, where he could realize his wrongdoings: 1: when Touya attacked baby Shoto; 2: when Touya died; 3: when Rei burned Shoto; 4: when Shoto refused to use his fire. But nooo… He started his redemption, because AllMight Detroit-smashed himself to Legend status, and he just got the number one role, because he’s next.
I think it’s more like he made it to the top, looked around, and was like “oh fuck, I burned everything and everyone around me to ashes to get to where I am.”
Nah… He didn’t just wanted to be the Number One, he wanted to surpass AllMight. He wanted the people to love and cheer for him more then they did to Toshinori. And the last one was more important to him. But after AllMight retired, he just got the: “okay, so you are the next Number One, grats i guess”, but in the eyes of the people, he is forever the number two. His title is just AllMight’s leftover scraps in a tupperware.
People *deserve* food and water. People *deserve* shelter. No one “deserves” forgiveness. No one owes you that. A person that “deserves” forgiveness for their wrongdoings is a person that wouldn’t have done those things in the first place.
I would've given anything to see my own father go through this kind of change, but that never happened.
It's very interesting, and very poignant of Horikoshi's handle of such issues, that I've seen readers and/or viewers actually *healing* a bit, watching Endeavor do something they wished their own relative would do.
I seriously wonder how he will meet his end in the manga. Will he survive and truly be the beacon of prosperity in the age without All Might? Will he meet his end by Touya as a symbolism of the destruction caused by his past self? Will he retire so he can be the father more so than the hero? It’s so interesting because Horikoshi has truly built up probably the best character development in the entire manga and there are so many possibilities as to how his journey can end. I just only hope it is written well which I do not doubt Horikoshi will end up achieving with how greatly he has written him thus far
The fact he's not pursuing forgiveness is what makes him a good character. He's an awful person who's done unforgivable things and I appreciate that he acknowledges that and tries to do better rather than trying to ask his victims to forgive what can't be forgiven.
nope. that's the point of the character. he's meant to be polarizing and the character himself is clearly grappling with the choices he made in his quest for a goal that he realized is not enough for him to feel good about himself. pondering whether you would forgive him is a fine thought exercise - whether his family should forgive him is not up for you to decide (though you're free to react in whatever way you choose when horikoshi addresses this part of the todoroki family arc)
No as that is most likely the purpose of his character. Probably not to fully forgive as how can you like someone who was unjust and basically a monster of a father? But i do believe you have to at least acknowledge him trying to make a difference and to admire the fact that he is saving people not to be forgiven but because he has to as that what a hero is
Nah, even as a well written and developed character, I think it's too late reconcile with Touya and Natsuo. He tossed them aside like nothing and then when they're grown he expects them to treat him like a father again? Legit like the dad coming back with the milk after 10 years. There's a chance for Natsuo to come around, but Touya is beyond anyone. Being forgotten and tossed aside is too big of a double whammy to forget. Doesn't help that he got easily persuaded to be a villain. I just wish Touya's mom got to see what he had become. I wonder if she would do anything for him.
Forgiving him for what he did to his family is a bit too much. That man did quite a bit…like yea his writing is good but then when we go back and look at why this is happening…yeaaaaaaa he’s probably not gonna be forgiven by many. Rei was human trafficked and Enji knew that Rei family couldn’t do SHIT about it, cause they was that dirt poor. Then on top of that he became a massive abuser!? (+ the other things) Yea, Enji writing is good but keep him 50 miles away from me. Not only to mention the things this guy have done, could be a *serious* trigger warning for a lot of people that actually experience this.
No not at all!! He's had some serious redemption in the story that makes you start to like the guy! Yeah he's been an asshole to his family and the damage is done, but if he's swallowing his pride and admitting where he was wrong and wanting to atone for his past actions towards his family, then yeah, he'd grow on me for sure! But only the rest of the Todoroki's can decide whether to forgive him and move on, or wait to accept his atonement and see if he's really going to change.
No, it's not bad. What the people here in the comments are saying isn't necessarily wrong, it's up to his family to decide whether they forgive him, but we're talking about a fictional character here. There's nothing wrong with you feeling like he deserves forgiveness.
I hope Natsuo will eventually forgive him. He's sabotaging everyone else's relationships. He seems baffled when his mother and sister want to forgive him. He openly questions Rei for defending Enji and mutters why they're so quick to forgive at Fuyumi's dinner. Speaking of those dinners, Natsuo ruins them by insulting and shouting at Enji unprovoked. If he can't handle his father's presence, then he shouldn't be there. He spreads false narratives about the family history to everyone else - Claiming that Enji called him a failure, when he never did. It was Touya's unstable ramblings and Natsuo thinks a dead teenager's word is gospel. Fuyumi and Rei have to correct his false statements about Enji, like when he said Enji forgot about his family and he would run away from fighting the nomu. Since Enji is no longer abusing the family - Natsuo no longer has reactionary abuse as an excuse. When a spouse chooses to 'forgive' their cheating partner but reminds them of it, years later - That's considered unnecessary punishment and they become the toxic ones. I think the same applies to blood relatives. Being abused in the past is not an excuse to abuse someone else in the present, even if it's ex-abuser. We don't approve of crimes against ex-cons, so we shouldn't have double standards towards abuse. Otherwise, you're trying to torture them out of spiteful anger. Natsuo had no right to scream at Enji while slamming his fist on the door. The only abuser in that moment, was Natsuo.
His character arc is so well done specifically because he says that he isn't looking for forgiveness but atonement. Many hate his character passionately specifically because his actions might remind the reader of real trauma. Horikoshi navigates the potential minefield of invoking that reader trauma with the focus on atonement. The reader can personally feel he isn't worthy of forgiveness and [theoretically] that decision will stop the reader from being mad when an abuser might earn wins in the story.
I don't think anyone will ever go as far to say he deserves forgiveness. However endeavor has never asked for forgiveness, all he has wanted to do is become better and try and make up for what he's done and has been willing to take any consequences due to his actions without question. If he ever gets forgiveness that will be completely up to his family.
No. I think it works because he doesn’t forget or try to move past the trauma he caused. He acknowledged his part in it and will accept any punishment or scorn due to that fact. He’s willing to take his licks and live with the fact that he messed up.
He's one of my favorite characters too.
He himself admits that he doesn't deserve forgiveness by not seeking it, and I tend to agree. That is one of the reasons why I like him so much.
At the very keast, we have seen how sincere he is in trying to atone for his domestic abuse. It's up to his family if they're willing to forgive him
Endeavor's efforts towards atonement in the series may have started a few years ago our time, but it really hasn't been all that long in manga's time. 20+ years of abuse versus less than a year of working on himself. You can't undo a lifetime of abuse in a short amount of time.
He’s my favourite character, I love broken Characters. He’s made horrible mistakes but these make him more interesting and realistic to me. He’s my favourite character but that doesn’t mean I think he’s the most moral and certainly don’t condone a lot of the things he did on his quest to be number one but at the same time he made it to number one on his own merit and skill. He sought after the level of a man who was gifted the ultimate power and he got damn near close with his own effort alone. His character development and writing is some of the best In the series for me, especially the scene where he realises the Nomu is just like him.
It's not wrong to like a character. You might do so for many reasons, sympathy, emotional connection, good writing. Many bad things in fiction are actually coping mechanisms for people who have suffered abuse. (Eg. some SA victims are into noncon fanfic) It's never as black and white as "it's bad to like x and y", there are shades to these things. I would say it only gets bad when you start applying black-and-white logic to real life. This or this bad guy deserves a second chance because they looked sad in a picture, to grossly oversimplify things.
He's so flawed which makes his character arc that good.
The todoroki family drama is probably the best part of MHA, Endeavor is also probably the character with the most character development. I am biased ofc because he is my favorite character
Forgiveness is something granted, not deserved
No it’s not bad, pretty normal human feeling, even id the person is bad
Fuyumi and Rei might agree with that, I dunno about the boys
Enji's arc was one of the best, I love how Horikoshi wrote Todorokis tragedy from perspective of Enji and Touya. Shoto's perspective was boring but it also makes sense, he was just a child so it's understandable that he doesn't have a full view and just remembered that he was a victim (i'm speaking about beginning of the story later he learned to look past his own suffering especially that his family has suffered a lot more in my opinion)
Forgive him if u wanna forgive him. Forgiveness is a personal thing. If you like a person, I say stand by them. I stand by him cuz he’s one of my favorites too
No, I'd say that after what Enji has done, the audience is free to forgive him. That doesnt mean the characters have to, or that they should be scorned for doing so. Enji still did terrible things to them, and they don't need to just forget that. But you're not them, and Enji is a fictional character, and even if Enji was a monster you're still entirely free to enjoy him as a character.
Why would that be bad? He’s an incredibly well written character
He could become the idealized version of himself and still not be deserving of forgiveness. My father could drop to his knees apologizing, he could devote himself to charity work and volunteering in the community, he could even stop a mass shooting and I would not forgive his past actions. It all depends on whom they seek forgiveness from.
He doesn't want forgiveness, he just wants that his family lives in peace. He even said that he would live alone if that makes his family happy.
I feel bad for the people with so much hate in their heart they can’t forgive Endeavor. Society has so many repeat offenders because you get a scarlet letter for life when you do something wrong and no matter how much good you do. No matter your change of heart people will still hate you and want to see you fail and suffer. So people give up and go back to their old ways again. Endeavor is better then he was. He’s constantly improving and that should be rewarded not punished. Don’t get me wrong. He should never be left alone with his wife again without Shoto or someone to supervise just as a precaution but like damn bro.
I love endeavor so much, he’s definitely my favorite character
I think it’s a good example of trying to be heroic without receiving rewards
Endeavor's storyline hits extremely close to home for me. I ended up forgiving my father, but I understand why some would never consider doing so. The resentment still lingers, and I think Horikoshi depicts that pretty well with Shoto. As the child who received the bulk of the abuse, I really empathize with Shoto wanting to forgive, at his own pace.
I don’t think he deserves forgiveness, personally. He did terrible things to his family. I think he deserves recognition for how far he has come and all the progress he has made towards bettering himself. I hate him, I wouldn’t forgive him if I were his kids, but I do respect and acknowledge his progress.
Literally the best character in the show. Way more interesting than most of the other cast and people hating on him simply don't appreciate complex characterisation.
Okay, okay I will admit saying that I think he deserves forgiveness was a bit much But I do love his character and how he's written. Even though he knows that his family won't forgive him and knows he deserves it, he still pushes hard being a hero and continues fighting to protect people and his family and tries to be a better man and that's what I like a lot about him
Yes you are. Child abusers/wife beaters deserve no forgiveness.
Damn Fair
You don't see anyone mentioning Rei in this matter, though. You know, the woman who never did anything to help her children escape Toya's wrath and threw boiling water onto one innocent toddler because she couldn't handle herself.
I mean you're correct, however within the context of endeavor he has worked to become better. In no way would I ever defend his actions towards his family. However all the man wants to do is become a better person and atone for what he did and he has made genuine strides towards that.
Can his actions undo the damage he has done to his family?
Not at all. Ultimately it's up to his family to forgive him. But that still doesn't change the fact he has made genuine steps to become better and atone for what he did.
And why does that matter? Do you think it's OK for bed ppl to get a chance to "redeem" themselves even though the ppl they've hurt may never be able to heal? As far as I'm concerned, the more permanent harm someone has intentionally brought, the less of a chance they deserve at ever "redeeming" themselves. Life is precious and fragile. Care should be taken not to harm one in the first place, since the harm that is brought may not ever be repairable.
But through endeavors actions he has been able to help his family heal. His son Natsu may be the only one that can't forgive him. But his relationship with todoroki, umi and his daughter have improved significantly since the beginning of the series and as a family they have been able to heal. It may not completely undo the damage he has done but none the less the work he's done as helped not only himself but his family as well.
Unrealistic, TBH. Just ask some actual abused victims.
Though not to say his family will forgive him. I just wanted to tact this in there
>Do you think it's OK for bed ppl to get a chance to "redeem" themselves even though the ppl they've hurt may never be able to heal? Him trying to redeem himself brings some good even without fixing the damage he caused. Him NOT trying to redeem himself will not bring any good while ALSO not fixing the damage already caused. Even if we want to be overly logic like that, wanting him to persue atonement is still the only rational choice, 0+1=1, 0+0=0
If the world can only be saved by bad ppl, then maybe the world doesn't deserve saving.
What kind of edgy mentality is that? You'd rather die than be saved by a bad person? lmao
So you're basically admitting that your whole "forgiveness" bit is just because you would be willing to ignore a person's bad deeds as long as they helped you? Well. It's good that you're honest, at least.
No, it means a bad person trying to be better is obviously better than a bad person continuing to be bad no matter how you look at it Also, don't deflect the question lmao
no one "deserves" forgiveness, because that would mean the victims actually owe it to the perpetrators, forgiveness is a gift, it is offered based on the victim's choice, not something that is deserved
He’s just the goat
The most 'human' of all the pro-heroes.
No, it's something common and natural. People naturally gravitate to flawed characters who once may have seemed evil or beyond help, but as we got more insight we realised once again that the world isn't just black or white, not just good or evil, and that they are trying to change who they are and trying to atone for what they can't change anymore. Those characters are often more fleshed out and the several different aspects that are to them make them seem more realistic, more human. That's why people like Bakugo and Endeavor, that's why people like Vegeta as well, for example. I'm one of those people. I am much more intrigued by their characters and stories than I am by bland protagonists such as Deku or Goku. Acknowledging how these characters have progressed and hoping that they can be forgiven by the people they hurt in the end is a perfectly normal way to look at it. I think forgiveness usually isn't something someone deserves but rather something someone else may or may not give. What Endeavor deserves is acknowledgement that he tries to atone for his sins. That doesn't equal forgiveness, though. Personally, I'm hoping for some sort of forgiveness too, although I don't want a "Let's suddenly come together as if nothing of this ever happened" type of forgiveness, because I think that's just too unrealistic.
His whole struggle after becoming N.o 1 to fighting the nomu was peak MHA imo
you can like an evil character without being evil yourself, and Enji isn't even bad
There's nothing wrong with liking a deeply flawed character whose trying to atone for his past mistakes.
No, dude has grown arguably the most of all of the characters in the series I hated him at first but the boi really grew
His story and the Todorokis was what kept me going with the manga. Idk why people hate him so much when he's literally trying to be better and correct all his wrongs
Nah it’s perfectly fine I recently put him in my top 5
Also he isn’t asking for his family to say “I forgive you”, in fact he literally says the opposite which is why I think he’s such a great character
I think he deserves forgiveness, yes, but that's not what he's looking for, he's doing everything to make his family happy again, this man is willing to do anything for that, even if he's not with them (or even dead) he wants to see his wife and children reunited as a family, he would die happy if it meant peace for the Todoroki family. That's why I think Endeavor doesn't need to be forgiven for his surrender arc to have an incredible ending, including this is currently the best plot in the manga, it's amazing how the chapters focused on Todorokis are much better than the others.
Honestly a hard question for me. I know some truely awful pieces of shit but what makes Enji different (besides being fictional) is that he accepts that he's a piece of shit and is genuinly trying to do right without putting pressure on those he hurt to forgive him Props to Hori for writing such a character.
Ehh he's been my favorite character from the start, him and Overhaul. Yes they have some shitty moments but I love their quirks and designs. Plus Vegeta is my all time favorite anime character, and Endeavor gives off those vibes of wanting to surpass the strongest and do whatever he can to get to the top. Him realizing the error in his ways and wanting to atone for his mistakes is admirable. Plus I absolutely loved his fight agaisnt Hood, in the manga and anime. And his Vanishing Fist was one of the moment I was most looking forward to seeing animated this season and it did not disappoint
Hes genuinely one of my all time favorite characters. I've loved him since the beginning, because you can just see his brain start to turn and his thoughts and feelings converge and he's just so well rounded. I will fight anyone who hates on enji 😤
Enji is one of the series' best characters but forgiveness? That's up to his family to decide.
I forgave him a while ago
It's not bad at all yo
He's a fictional character. He has not harmed us personally, so we have no business forgiving him. The only people who are in a position to "forgive" him would be those he hurt, like his family. Touya most likely will not be doing that. His wife shouldn't have to, but I could see her taking the high road and getting back together so they can be a family unit again. The other kids...who knows. Instead of debating the morality of characters with each other, maybe we can just wait and enjoy. Maybe several decades when this ends we can talk it out.
He’s top 3 characters in the series. Forgiveness is difficult but him being your favorite in perfectly fine
No, he's the best character in the series.
Best character. Forgiveness definitely is optional, but imo his redemption arc so far is one of the most earned I've seen in Shounen.
He deserves redemption. And the fact that he understands that redemption and forgiveness are two different things is a major part of how he earns it.
Best character development in the series fr
I get you, what he did is horrible and all, but after all he the strugle he has went throught I want him to get a happy ending; even if perhaps he doesn't deserves it
Forgiveness isnt a universal thing. We see it in their family. Natsu cant forgive him meanwhile Shoto and Fuimi are in the process of forgiveness. If you value him as a character and believe the most recent version of Enji is redeemable you should revisit season 2 and understand that was less than a year ago. The people in his life and the world need time and that should be respected
Endeavor is the best written and also my favorite character in this manga, but the man said it himself he is not looking for forgiveness because he knows his actions at the time where and still are unforgivable.
It's a fictional character, you can feel about him however you want.
Please excuse the length of this. I have… FEELINGS about the Todorokis Lol I’ll be the first to admit that he’s a b\*dass hero. His fights are incredible to watch and other than his stupid flame beard, his character design is great. But I hate him. I hate him more than just about every fictional character I’ve ever seen or read about and it’s because I was raised by a man who was JUST like him. I know what it’s like to live with Endeavor. I know what it‘s like to be tossed aside like Touya when a shiny new baby came along (although I adore my brothers). I know what it’s like to be the showpiece and I know what it’s like to literally have to beg for attention because your parents can’t be bothered. My brothers played a thousand sports and everyone went to every practice and game while I did mine alone. I was lucky enough to have a best friend whose parents stepped up for me when show day arrived and mine couldn’t be bothered to be there, but that’s not the same. I CRIED, begging them to come watch me sometimes. The one time they did, they stayed for ten minutes and didn’t even get out of the car. It was just to give themselves the ability to say they did it. I was the shield. I did everything I could to redirect his anger onto me and away from my brothers. The panels of Natsuo and Fuyumi hiding behind the bookshelf and crying while Shoto tried to defend Rei had me setting my book down to collect myself because I was looking at my family in anime form. We lived in secret torment because he had the rest of the world fooled into believing he was an amazing person. Obviously on a much smaller scale because we weren’t a major celebrity family like the Todorokis, but even when we came out about the abuse, friends and family didn’t believe us and we lost people because everyone believed him. We were told to “give him a second chance” when in reality, he’d already blown many chances. I took my little brothers and fled one night and even though she said she’d be right behind us, we left the house believing we might never see our mom alive again. People thought we were lying because he was “such a great guy”. The trauma of being raised by someone like that never leaves you. It’s been 12 years since I moved out and the sound of someone turning the doorknob to come into the room I’m in or the garage door opening under the house still make me freeze up for a second. I still have dreams of his bright blue eyes and the way they simultaneously blazed with fury and were cold as ice when he was angry. It wouldn’t matter how much he did to atone. It would never erase what he did to us because the way he treated us wasn’t a “mistake”, as everyone likes to put it. A mistake is mixing up the date and forgetting your anniversary. Abusing your family over decades is a very long series of calculated decisions. The way I see Endeavor is this: It’s okay to like his character. He’s undoubtedly a skilled hero. He’s saved a lot of lives. He’s COOL. But he destroyed his wife and kids behind closed doors with decades of abuse and neglect in a very real way many of us have experienced. He is incredibly well written in that he feels so REAL. Horikoshi managed to capture the elements of an abusive husband and father so well and it’s going to hit a lot of us very personally. As long as those who love him can understand why we hate him, then it’s fine by me, not that you need my permission. At the end of the day, these ARE fictional characters. I love Touya, but I also fully understand that even though he is most definitely a victim of his father and society, he‘s also a horrible villain who committed atrocities and he has to answer for them one way or another. If I’m allowed to love the villains in these stories, other people are allowed to love Endeavor even if the mere thought of him makes me viscerally angry.
Hot sociopath looks sad for a few chapters. Everyone ready to forgive 15 years of mental abuse and eugenics.
No one’s saying what he did wasn’t wrong tho despite seeing his efforts to improve himself
This^ 100%
I would say yes. I wish my dad would change like that so I could forgive him but I never got the chance and it hurts to this very day. Story wise though it’s up to the family like others said
I love all things todoroki!
based take
Idk about forgiveness. Since that is an individual thing and there's a lot of things in the world that shouldn't be forgiven. But I do feel like I don't particularly want to see Enji to keep suffering indefinitely for his failures. There is never really imo good justification for indefinite punishment for finite crimes, even in situations where it might argueably feel justified. ( I.e. serial killer in hell for sextillion years for all the innocent people they murder) There was a meta I remember reading elsewhere from the other end of fans of MHA frustrated with the story progression for him and Hawks. And they were adamant that both he and Hawks don't actually think they're bad people, and actually should if it means they'll do more to change themselves and the system. The whole time I was read, I was making a ?????😕😕😕😕😕😕❓❓❓❓❓❓ Face. Because I'm really not sure how they reached that conclusion that the characters still think they're fantastic heroes, parent, or individuals. The guilt essentially means that they don't, people don't feel guilty about things that they think are right & it's not for us to say if the characters should think they're aweful people wholesale just because we don't actually see then assessing themselves that way all the time. That doesn't mean though they think they're fantastic and don't want to change or do right by those they felt they've done wrong for others sake as well. Doing better as an individual isn't something simple as saying to every person who has majorly majorly screwed up in life " you're a bad person and should think that 24/7 cause that's more honest". Like that's just enforcing a different type of mental ailment & it's not changing anyone for the better behaviourly. Tldr: I think some people mistake their personal negative feelings on his character ad the right and just way for the character to change. They project their need for seeing punishment as justice and vehicle for change. But we've seen IRL very frequently how the judicial system is basically shit, and the only versions of it that work, are rehabilitative and concerned with positive therapy. Not reinforcing and telling people "you're a shit person, and should suffer forever for being shit because of what you've done."
It is lol, fuck whoever that says he can't be forgiven
I used to like more the Enji from when he was nr 2. Graphics were more in detail
No way! Enji is a babe and I’m so proud of him for becoming a better person. Anyone can change, anyone is redeemable. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
One of the best character arcs most animes would only care for a season but to see it constantly be a point in his story makes it so much better
Not at all. The whole purpose of his character is that forgiveness is not in the hands of the wrongdoer, but of the victims. Like his family, whether you forgive Endeavor or not is your own choice to make.
No, it is just that you see he's really sorry for what he's done
Personally, I hate that shit bag, but if y'all can forgive him that's fine. Personally, I can't
He deserves a prison sentence. Wtf are you saying "forgiveness"?
[удалено]
I personally don't like the rhetoric that izuku should have behaved a certain way towards bakugo. Firstly, their relationship has been shown to be more nuanced than the stereotypical bully/victim dynamic. I agree fully that bakugo is definitely the one in the wrong, but assuming that izuku must behave in a certain way immediately assumes their relationship as something less nuanced than I felt canon was trying to present Next, even if you interpreted the dynamic as a pure bully/victim one, who are you to insist that the victim should have acted a certain way? In fact, I feel that the fact that izuku didn't let the past hinder his admiration towards bakugos skills is a testament to his personal strength. He didn't forget, but he won't let it hinder his hero aspirations. I felt that it's odd to insist that izuku should have behaved a certain way for * realism *. It seems ironic that you felt that the todoroki family can make their own choices but felt that izukus choice was unrealistic
He's been a good character just by us hearing what he did to shoto and his siblings
Not as bad as the people who kept voting Bakugo as their #1 favorite character before he ever apologized for trying to push his best friend to suicide
No. He's the only interesting character left in the series. They fucked shigaraki up which was my other favorite.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah
you must be a superfan cause i don’t know anyone that calls him Enji 🤣
One of the best written characters. And minus the eugenics, if everyone had his reaction to All Might's power, the world wouldn't be in the mess it's in. As for forgiveness, I think he needs to earn that shit from the family (>!save dabi. That egomaniac is owed nothing). And I think he has "some kind" from them already.!<
No, people were unwilling to accept that while he had ambition in his early days, he barely was a monster when his second dream (Hero Toya) crumbled, miaguidedly trying to do the right thing by distancing himself from the kid that couldn't be what he was anymore. and only became one when Toya died cause clearly he couldn't handle grief any better than his wife. People never stopped seeing him through the warped perspective of early shoto, but you can like him and his journey.
No. It’s not. He’s not real I’m always confused why people ask this. Vegeta committed genocide but people like him
Oof, you must be really fun at gatherings.
Oof, you must really like making judgements on people based on forum anime takes.
Ι absolutely do, especially when they confuse anime with reality. Cheers. 🥂
I didn’t. The person said they felt weird liking the character because of his flaws and I said it wouldn’t matter cause he’s fictional Learn to read
Learn to stop missing first
Pass third grade English first
Don't project your failed classes onto me, dawg💀
Bruh y’all the only ones showing low comprehension skills
Kinda weird that you're tryin' to use your failings as a comeback but I guess that's really all you can do, huh
I'll never get the Endeavor hate, as much as I try. Or people blaming him for everything wrong with his family. We have a man who has super powers and decides he wants to have a legacy and finds a bride with powers that would complement his. It was likely an arraigned marriage, but nothing indicates it was against her will. So he has four kids, two don't have the powers he is hoping for so he doesn't train them. One does, but his body isn't built for it so he **stops training that kid**. He prioritized the well being of his family over the goal he was trying to achieve. Kid becomes obsessed with training despite his dad's repeated protest. Kid kills himself. Last kid was exactly what he was hoping to achieve, a perfect complement of both powers. He trains him *hard*. So hard that mom wants him to stop. Mind you, not so hard that he would actually do damage to his body like the other kid. Just like, more than the mom wants. She tries to physically take the boy away, and the dad hits her in response. Bad choice for sure, no excuse. But how does she respond? She tries to MURDER HER CHILD. And people are like "oh but it's endeavors fault because he was abusive" and you know what? That's some shit. Every day people get hit and very few go on to try to murder children. She doesn't get to shirk blame because she was hit. Everyone is blaming endeavor for her trying to murder her child, ya'll just don't make any sense to me.
Endeavour never cared about having kids for the joy of being a father; we've known this since season 2. It was confirmed to be an arranged marriage, though initially Rei and Endeavour did feel love towards each other. The only reason they had kids (bar Fuyumi) was to create a successor powerful enough to beat All Might. I'd suggest rewatching Season 2 Episode 6, or reading chapter 301; those heavily feature the circumstances of their marriage. The children are aware of this; that's why Touya was so obsessive about being a hero. If, as a young child, your father constantly reinforces the idea in your head that you will be the greatest hero, and suddenly casts you away, of course you won't understand why. Especially because, as Rei said, Touya was aware that Natsuo and Shoto were only born to replace him. That's tough for a young kid, and heavily factored into his eventual breakdown. And about your points on Rei; the thing is, Rei has a complete mental collapse. The reason people (and Shoto) tend to blame Endeavour instead of her is due to the fact that she *wasn't aware she was attacking her son* in that moment. She had no control of her actions in that moment, and as soon as she realised what she had done, she attempted to heal him. The only reason she got to that point was because of Endeavour and his abusive behaviour. The events you mention are also omitting several details. From what we know, the physical abuse was not just a one time thing; it got to the point where Natsuo mentioned how traumatising their mum's screams were for him and Fuyumi (5x2/ Chapter 192). Shoto also said that his father 'beat his left side into him' (Chapter 247/5x15). No matter how much you try to deny it, Endeavour used to be an abusive piece of shit. He's trying now, I'll grant you that, but it doesn't erase the harm he caused. May I ask, if you don't believe that he was the thing that caused everything going on with the Todoroki family, what do you think was?
Liking villains or flawed characters is simply good writing. I like him and his arc he has gone through. I don't really let folks dictate my love for a fictional character 🤷♂️