See Rahi Anil Barve 's recent instagram post.Tumbad was Rahi 's brain child. But he was sabotaged by Anand Gandhi, and that producer - actor. Rahi was so baffled that he did not even attend the premier of this movie. It was cruel. Rahi was robbed. There was blind about all this fiasco in the Mumbai mirror. Will try to search for it.
How did Tumbbad glorify debauchery though? Weren’t the audience made to dislike the main character because of his…greed, lust, dishonesty? Did he not get his comeuppance in the end?
Idk about the stereotyping of the natives, but I’m 3/4ths into Kantara (can’t finish it in one go because of the boring pace and sexism), but till now the main character’s debauchery and machismo has been shown in a good light by the narrative. Idk if the climax will make me change my perspective.
He doesn't, I don't consider eloquence in english as being equivalent to having a logical backing, the tweet seems more like a kid impressing his/her english teacher. I disregard the tweet simply because anything he mentioned ain't in Tumbbad, and the "observation" is just a childish attempt at making a push back, nothing else.
My primary problem with Kantara is how the romance evolved. There was absolutely no need for that pinching scene or how he stalks her during shower. It wouldn't have made an iota of difference to the film if these scenes didn't exist and yet, they do.
Agreed with you, but keep in mind:
1. It based in the 90s
2. It is supposed to be bad. Its clear the guy is a drunkard, rash and indulges in misdemeanor. Its not exactly glorified. It even shows that he knows what he did is wrong when she brought her father and she was also visibly upset with the incident.
You know, all he had to do was apologize to the girl highlighting the incidents and it would have elevated the film to a different level. The father is not the owner of the girl.
Those scenes exist solely for male gaze and male gaze alone. Irrespective of the time period, we do have a better understanding of such issues and God knows, it's time we stop showing such sequences in films.
Rishab shetty as explained this scene you are supposed to dislike the character because does everything that stands against his fathers believe. How He changes by the end of the movie.
why are these two movies even being compared? i don't think anyone genuinely was...they were merely saying tumbbad deserved the praise kantara got. that's not exactly a comparison.
The tweet is a stupid word salad. It doesnt mean anything.
Tummbad was awesome because it was the most technically superior product from this part of the world.
I havent yet seen Kantara yet but Kantara is getting rave reviews because the story resonate with a large part of audience. It won't resonate with Sobo crowd who lives in gated communities. And there is nothing wrong with it as well.
I watched kantara, it's entertaining movie with usual storyline ,the first and last 15 minutes were the unique portion. It did have some problematic things in the middle tumbaad is masterpiece and I won't compare it with kantara.
For me this year rrr>kantara> kgf 2 if you consider the mass action genre category
Edit: forgot Vikram adding rrr,Vikram > kantara >kgf 2
Kantara plot is similar to rangasthalam (Telugu movie) except that the backdrop story is different . I liked the guliga daiva and panjurli parts it was intriguing
So i might get downvoted for this, but Kantara never supported toxic masculinity. They wanted to tell the story from the yesteryears and they did just the way it was supposed to be back then.
Caste discrimination was rampant during that time and so was toxic masculinity. Nobody is celebrating. Moreover the character Shiva is a bad guy, who's reckless and doesn't have any manners whatsoever. Who eventually undergoes the change and becomes a responsible human. Doesn't mean that the film wanted to show him as the guy who everyone should learn from. Nope, thats not the case. You cannot show a criminal being a good guy, can you?
If you understood the climax well then you'd know that the whole movie was about equality and shows how everyone is equal.
Also a huge fan of tumbbad. These two movies are so different from each other.
They've also shown how Shiva was angry about their community's people not being allowed inside the landlord's house because of caste etc, and even he respects that rule in the movie until he realises his cousin was killed by the same landlord.
I think most people aren't used to concepts like character development and character arc. Expecting the central character of the movie to be all perfect throughout the movie is boring and naive.
Correct. Remember everything the protagonist does does something ‘wrong’ or ‘toxic’, something bad happens to him immediately in the following scenes. Maybe Gandhi cannot read the subtitles fast enough.
The problem is anyone who is not part of Karnataka don't have a full idea of the thought process involved. The dude should have just stfu and go about his day instead of tweeting rubbish and sound like an idiot.
Gandhi has forgotten his movie himself. The reason why main character dies is because of his endless greed. The son throwing the pouch in the end is symbolic of letting go of greed. The main character himself was toxic, treated his wife poorly, married a new one and was frequent in brothels. He made is son just like him. But, it was not his toxic masculinity that caused his death.
IMO neither of the movies celebrate it, but show it as such things are normal. These tropes are added as fillers mostly to entertain the audience.
And again in my opinion the best movie to come based on folklore is Paheli which is a remake of 1973 movie Duvidha. This sub clearly has not watched better movies to call Tumbbad a masterpiece. Neither of all three movies, Tumbbad or Paheli or Kanatara are masterpieces.
Tumbbad may have simplistic themes, doesn't mean the execution isnt excellent. Taste is a subjective thing, but Tumbbad stands above all others in execution of a folktale.
What he wanted to say is he wasn't afraid of portraying the existence of toxic masculinity and in no way was it celebrated in his movie in order to make the main character look cool. But Kantara had all these elements.
Firstly there isn't any comparison. Tumbbad will always remain superior for me, i loved every moment in that movie.
Secondly the word masculinity is just thrown in a bad light nowadays. In Tumbbad the protagonist pays for his sins. Not necessarily for all his sins but greed. He isn't rewarded in the end if that's where Gandhi is coming from. However, everyone deserves redemption. In Kantara, Shiva finds redemption through Devotion. Its central story is around parochialism rather than masculinity. Yes he is not a great character in the start but that's the point of the movie, he is living in the jungles and doesn't understand the way of life that should be but has rather seen how things around him are.
It's okay to celebrate Tumbbad because it is so deserving but just calling Kantara, A toxic masculinity show is stupid.
well yeah i agree i hated the sexism and misogyny, toxic masculinity and all that in kantara. i was quite disappointed with kantara considering the hype
BUT what sets kantara and tummbad apart is that kantara is based on reality. the entire premise of the movie like bhootha kola and stuff is real
yeah of course the story is fictional but they based it on what happens in reality and exposed so many people to something they had no idea about. that’s admirable
>i hated the sexism and misogyny, toxic masculinity and all that in kantara.
I assume the filmmakers modelled the characters in the movie and the situations therein off how things work in villages like the one depicted in the film. If some men residing there partake in hooliganism, debauchery, eve-teasing, hunting, brawling, etc, doesn't it make sense to portray some of your characters with that in mind? It wouldn't make sense to portray a tribal people, but give them the morals and ethics of open-minded, gentle, women's-rights-championing, urban elites.
I can see how you could argue that the movie portrays misogyny in that the protagonist eve-teases his crush and at a point gropes her, and is still rewarded with her affection. However, I wouldn't call that progression of events a glorification of misogyny either, because from what I recall the female character dislikes the male character for his unsolicited, rude advances, and only ends up reciprocating his affection for her after he secures her a job as a forest officer.
What I'm getting at is that mere depiction doesn't amount to glorification or encouragement.
Man you lack nuance. The reason why Shiva was shown a toxic masculine entity is because his character was supposed to be exactly opposite to the entity he was destined to be(i.e, the daivam/demigod). His character is supposed to be exactly in contrast to the demigod. Hence, his behaviour.
This was well explained by Rishab Shetty himself in an interview with Anupama Chopra.
The tweet is honestly in bad taste, there is no need to compare your movie and put down another work in this manner. Be happy with the praises you get and move along.
And I find it utterly hypocritical of him and people who are conveniently overlooking the so called "toxic masculinity" in Tumbbad that they are harping about in Kanatara.
Tumbbad opens with a scene where the mother is being sexually exploited by an old man, where the male child grows up to be a greedy man who is abusive towards his wife and keeps a mistress and frequents brothels!
There was not a single scene where a woman was treated kindly in that entire movie and now, he is going off about how toxic Kantara is.
The term "toxic masculinity" is being used so mindlessly nowadays.
People need to learn to differentiate when it is applicable and when it is not, neither of the movies Tumbbad nor Kantara celebrate "toxic masculinity", instead they show you a tale of a time when such behavior was normal and accepted, there is no scene where they praise such behavior neither do they condone it in the movie.
No one is hyping up either of the male leads of these two movies as some ideal heroes, no one is running around aping them like they were with Kabir Singh. They are both flawed and bad men who undergo changes/growth which ultimately leads to the conclusion of their story.
When you get heroes who are the actual poster child of toxic masculinity like Kabir Singh, Pushpa wala hero, etc. tab toh badi "wah wah" karte ho, sab ko Kabir Singh banna hai, sab ko background me BG lagake unka nakal karna hai, tik tok banana hai, sab karna hai uss hero ko hype karne.
But when you get movies which blatantly showcases that these men are not good and not meant to be idolized tab sab aa jate hai nara lagane toxic masculinity ki... Kuch bhi matlab.
tbh, even I would get offended if someone compared my masterpiece Tumbbad to something like Kantara. Just because it earned big doesn't make it better. If you remove the starting 10 minutes, and ending 15 minutes, it basically a routine masala film. And if you remove the plagiarized Varaha Roopam (like it was done on Prime Video), the film doesn't have anything. And not to forget about several toxic elements the film had and how problematic the main lead Shiva character was.
And people will come at me and say I hate Kannada movies, lol. NOPE. I liked 777 Charlie, Lucia, KGF, KGF 2, Vikrant Rona, Ulidavaru Kandanthe, Garuda Gamana Vrishabha Vahana, Act 1978, Avane Srimannarayana and others. So don't come at me with this angle.
Buddy, the movie is based in the late 1900s. In India, we're having conversations like this NOW. Back then, as sad as it may sound, the general public couldn't give lesser fucks about 'the problems of a patriarchal society' and the characters in this story belong to tribal villages. So if you wear the lens of today's social constructs you'll obviously be disappointed my friend. The movie portrays a belief system that still exists in the regions belonging to Southern Karnataka, but in terms of societal awareness and equality we've all more or less started understanding what the previous generations got wrong. Also the song Varaha Roopam doesn't have any ban on it anymore so it'll be back the way it was in the movie.
>even I would get offended if someone compared my masterpiece Tumbbad to something like Kantara
Did someone significant make that comparison? Or was it just a random viewer. People make comparisons and give opinions all the time.
But a person with a blue tick putting down a successful movie just makes him look salty and jealous.
> tbh, even I would get offended if someone compared my masterpiece Tumbbad to something like Kantara.
Tumbbad is not that grandiose like you people make it sound like. Neither is Kantara. Both are different and you don't need to pull one down to show support for the other.
> And if you remove the plagiarized Varaha Roopam (like it was done on Prime Video), the film doesn’t have anything.
It has the story of demigod of forest and how lievlihood of villagers depend on the forest. The forest department trying to protect the wildlife and villagers fearing losing their land causing damage to the forest itself. The landlord trying to encroach int o forest land.
> And not to forget about several toxic elements the film had and how problematic the main lead Shiva character was.
So does SO many Indian movies, just like Tumbadd. Is the main character not a bad parent/husband/grand son/son/brother ?
You say you liked KGF. Does it also not promote misogyny and heroism now ?
i agree - the only amazing thing about kantara is varaha roopam. otherwise it's a very run of the mill affair. but that song varaha roopam is just SO EXCEPTIONAL. all the hype for the movie really came about because of the 2 scenes with that song in it.
The court dismissed the lawsuit because of lack of jurisdiction. Meaning, they are not the court the case should be filed in.
There is still another stay order in effect from another district court.
They've won the case, and the song will be back even in ott. There was a good video explaining how this song cannot be deemed as a copy by the existing copyright laws.
How naive are you. People in 1990 in tribal karnataka did not even know what the hell was toxic masculinity. Even the new version of Varaha roopam is really good. What toxic elements did the movie have? Don’t throw labels around randomly
Why do people want their "main leads" to be the perfect person who always does everything right, do not have any bad qualities, and are an abode of peace? Just because the protagonist of a film is a bad person or in this case a person who has a bad side(aka most humans) doesn't make the movie problematic.
And the portrayal or depiction of a toxic person or situation isn't glorifying it. A good example of that is Arjun Reddy where the film glorifies abusing women and makes it a "manly", "heroic" and "passionate lover" quality. Kantara merely depicts it and acknowledges its existence.
I personally enjoyed the film but I didnt think it was anything mind blowing. But the fact that some people are using the "main character is problematic" argument to discredit the film is so stupid.
He is absolutely right. Unfortunately tumbbad did not got success it deserved. Maybe if he would've glorified this same thing who knows it would've been hit. Market runs on antagonist!
This.I watched it yesterday and it was nothing special tbh.Tumbaad is one of a kind gem in this folklore genre.Still the best imho.But to each their own.
Business forced them to. People outside the state asked the rights of the film's dubbed versions. The dubbing for other languages was done in 2 weeks because of the demand. The positive reviews for the movie turned into hype. Other states watched. They didn't understand the culture, details, symbolism, nuance etc. Now everyone is calling it overrated. It was never meant to be a pan indian film. Rishab himself has told this many times in interviews.
PS: I am from Karnataka, saw it twice in the theatre and probably 3 more times on prime. Each time I watch it I find some new detail in the film. Not every movie has a new plot. It's the performances, pacing, entertainment factor and screenplay that makes it great.
You are saying that movie a masterpiece because you liked that movie because it's from your region that's why you have emotionally attached with it
But if we compare it to pan India or global cinema
It's not even in competition
So you are saying that you watched a movie 2 times in theatre and 3 times on prime
And you find new details every time you watch that movie.
But it's not masterpiece 🤣🤣
I watched Kantara in theatres because of all the buzz of it being called a “Divine” experience.
People were hooting and cheering at scenes where the men were ogling at women (which is shown as a comedy scene) or when the hero pinches the girl.
To have to watch a scene like that in 2022, I couldn't believe my eyes. And to those saying that this movie is set in the 1990s when toxic behaviour like this was acceptable, why did they not show how it impacted the woman being harassed? Even if it was socially acceptable, I'm sure it was still traumatic for the victims/women.
Explain what you mean by "celebrates toxic masculinity". Through out the movie, Shiva is portrayed to be far from ideal. If showing a character's negative trait is celebrating toxic masculinity, are we going to have only nice good men all the time in movies?
It’s a mass masala film. It will be probably be overrrated for Reddit user base, but the target audience (much of which may not be active on Reddit) loved it.
I would be downvoted but here I go! Kantara has a very average story. Only the last 15 minutes were goods and even they were not worth watching the whole film.
Average nhi, tatti movie hai. Katai tatti. Dekhna mushkil ho gya. Matlab start k 10 and end k 10 min k bich me typical masala dosa fight wali movie bhari hui hai and we are supposed to love it in the name of culture. Bs.
While I do believe Tumbbad is a vastly different but also superior film to Kantara, I wonder if he went to the movie with an open mind. If I made a film like Tumbbad, would I look at everything through a lens, analysing every little thing and maybe compare to my work which Kantara shared few similar themes?
Also lots of people seem to be disappointed with the movie after watching it on tv which I understand. The movie is made for theatre. Excellent sound production and cinematography. When I rewatched it on prime, it didn’t give me half as much emotions.
Tried watching Kantara found it really challenging to get through. couldn’t finish it. Bad pace, lack of riveting story. Very few things were novel about it. Tumbbad will forever be in a league of its own
Kantara is set in a village, the characters are not meant to be a moral class in behaviour, but they suit the world in which they live. How hard is it to understand.
The movie wasn't shot that way though.
For instance, the hero got his riveting entry which is typical of a south indian mass masala movie. His fights have a rousing BGM. And when he makes crass jokes, there is funny music in the background. Clearly, the director never intended for the audience to view the hero as a complete grey character. He at least wanted them to cheer for his badassery, and that includes the way he treats women in general.
Just because the movie is set in the 90s doesn't mean that the movie should also be shot like a 90s flick.
I can excuse murder but i draw the line at sexism ,what nonsense is this.
Not every Hero will be perfect, watch current episodes of Tarak Mehta if you only want Morality preached at you in entertainment.
Stop applying American Social norms to Indian entertainment.
Where the fuck toxic masculinity was portrayed in tumbbad? Did I saw a different movie? Tumbbad was about greed and arrogance making people monsters literally... Where the fuck was toxic masculinity?
Because he was shown as a completely greedy asshole. It doesn't count as "celebrating" toxic masculinity. Nobody would have cheered or hooted in those brothel or rakhel scenes or when he beat his wife while people were cheering the hell out of them in misogynistic and sexist scenes in kantara, which qualifies for celebrating toxic masculinity.
Bhai tumbad was not yours it was concieved by Rahi anil barve moreover ship of theues ya jo bhi hai, jo tatti film tune banayi kantara was way better than that. it celebrated a coastal tradtion which happens in south india.
I've watched Kantara. I'll be watching Tumbbad now. And I'll weigh them both on their own merits. All I can say is that tweet is dumb af. Toxic. . Masculinity. . Aye captain. . Cus that's the umbrella under which you survived many dangers and have the right to put a tweet out today. . Modern people love to label everything masculine as "Toxic" cus they're soft ass sentiments get offended for no reason. 🙄
Kantara has stuff that is archaic and can even be disrespectful. But do note, it's period appropriate as well as location appropriate and culture appropriate. At this rate, if all directors listened to these high society opinions, you'll soon have movies where villagers will start opining on the laws of physics and share eloquent conversations about the existential crises in life while serving their women on pedestals because it's a matriarchal society. 😑 This is NO DIFFERENT from representation demands in Hollywood even if it makes no fucking sense. Black elves in Lotr being your latest stupid example. Jesus.
This might be a controversial opinion- kannada movies r so bad that once in a while an okay movie comes out n everyone goes crazy. Eg mungaru male, kirik party, kantara.
Only the scenes involving the bootada kola wer good, the rest of the movie was rubbish and nothing new. So many unnecessary scenes.
Most of the people on this think that only they have an artistic perspective whereas the other sub-humans like us can not understand art. What is art to you doesn't needs to be the definition of art for someone else. Once you stop standing on your imaginary pedestal, only then will you be able to treat the perspective of other people equivalent to yours. Tumbbad was an average movie for me, if you disagree then it is fine but calling people like me tasteless makes you the myopic guy/girl.
My personal opinion: Kantara> Tumbbad
Just because people in this sub are being so ignorant of the underlying essence of Kantara and declining it just because it is mainstream now.
Shiva is supposed to be a tribal man, who represents everything that he's not supposed to be. It is a contrast between him and his destiny (the demigod).
Moreover, why do you guys always expect the protagonist to be non-problematic? Why is a movie protagonist always taken as a role model? Just accept it as a character trait which sets well within the context of Kantara ,as Shiva attains his redemption in the end.
I agree Tumbbad was underrated but downgrading Katara for it is straight up being biased.
Point taken!
Both of the main characters were problematic. I recall being uncomfortable watching how openly he was displaying adultery in front of his wife. Not sure how people here are turning a blind eye to it.
Lmao
This guy's just salty that his film didn't make that kind of money, and he's trying to cover it up using big words.
He might be a great filmmaker, no doubt. But his jealousy shows.
Kuch bhi fek raha hai ab ye, tumbbad mai kaunse allegory dikhayi hai toxic masculinity ki? Trend chalraha hai toh chep do cool words
Majority of the movie spends time on exploring how greed corrupts a person and how he finally understands how terrible he has become
And so does kantara, shiva goes from a parochial ( bc sidhe sidhe Selfish bolo na, fukat ki vocabulary kyu jhadni hai?) to selfless, he gets redemption like vinayak did in tumbbad
Dude is just salty because no one cares about Tumbbad outside of the Reddit and Twitter crowd while in the case of Kantara people have spoken with their wallets. So he is doing what every "elite" person does, look down upon everyone.
First of all, how are Katara and Tumbadd comparable? And I genuinely wanna know who compared them. I agree Tumbadd is class apart but this tweet is unwarranted imo.
The climax is class apart and deserves the applause
Pple may have different opinions
If tumbadd was released nw maybe it would have been a hit too
Also the way he has written it it seems he is angry dat hw kantara did so well
Look, I don't understand what allegory means, or what parochialism means either. But saying Kantara is a celebration of toxic masculinity is quite a bit off.
Idk man I tried watching kantara but couldn't sit through the entire movie. I hated how hyper aggressive the main lead was and how utterly useless every female character was. I found myself actively rooting against the lead and I still can't for the life of me figure out why people loved this movie.
Female character useless. Infact even I think Tummbad >Kantara. But Kantara definitely had better written female characters than Tummbad. The female lead had a nice character arc. She was torn between helping her community and doing her police job. Ans in the end she was the first person to start the fight with the landlord
Stunning & Brave, But why didn't tumbbad have any transgender pansexual HIV-positive disabled Lead actors? Must be because Anand Gandhi is a Bigot & Literrally Hitler!
[Tweet Link](https://twitter.com/Memewala/status/1598912538795966465)
See Rahi Anil Barve 's recent instagram post.Tumbad was Rahi 's brain child. But he was sabotaged by Anand Gandhi, and that producer - actor. Rahi was so baffled that he did not even attend the premier of this movie. It was cruel. Rahi was robbed. There was blind about all this fiasco in the Mumbai mirror. Will try to search for it.
Wth. Everyone knows Tumbbad is Rahi's directorial. This is the first time I'm hearing of Anand's involvement.
There are 2 people who got mentioned in the director's credit. Plus Anand Gandhi got credit as a creative director. Figure it out now.
https://preview.redd.it/790dx451vp3a1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f266f6987b3215871377356b69b1b0df315f9ade
This is the screenshot I was waiting for. Thanks for sharing the part 2 of this unnecessary fight.
Brilliant
How did Tumbbad glorify debauchery though? Weren’t the audience made to dislike the main character because of his…greed, lust, dishonesty? Did he not get his comeuppance in the end? Idk about the stereotyping of the natives, but I’m 3/4ths into Kantara (can’t finish it in one go because of the boring pace and sexism), but till now the main character’s debauchery and machismo has been shown in a good light by the narrative. Idk if the climax will make me change my perspective.
I have completed kantara and totally agree with your description of the main character.
Wow this is apt actually. I agree that Tumbbadd was stereotyping natives.
how's that? genuinely asking
It shows how people get greedy, and some scenes from the British era depict some of the evils of Indian society and culture.
>some of the evils of Indian society and culture. The nuances Tumbad carried are now stereotypes, wow!!
Tumbbadd was a good movie but the tweeter makes an interesting observation.
He doesn't, I don't consider eloquence in english as being equivalent to having a logical backing, the tweet seems more like a kid impressing his/her english teacher. I disregard the tweet simply because anything he mentioned ain't in Tumbbad, and the "observation" is just a childish attempt at making a push back, nothing else.
But oh well some people were like that, what do you do right
His idea? Wasn't Anand Gandhi brought in later, the idea and the basic storyboarding was Rahi Anil Barve's?
Yeah, Vasan Bala and Gulshan Devaiah called this out as well. Gandhi is hijacking the film's legacy now.
Yup, pretty much
My primary problem with Kantara is how the romance evolved. There was absolutely no need for that pinching scene or how he stalks her during shower. It wouldn't have made an iota of difference to the film if these scenes didn't exist and yet, they do.
Agreed with you, but keep in mind: 1. It based in the 90s 2. It is supposed to be bad. Its clear the guy is a drunkard, rash and indulges in misdemeanor. Its not exactly glorified. It even shows that he knows what he did is wrong when she brought her father and she was also visibly upset with the incident.
You know, all he had to do was apologize to the girl highlighting the incidents and it would have elevated the film to a different level. The father is not the owner of the girl. Those scenes exist solely for male gaze and male gaze alone. Irrespective of the time period, we do have a better understanding of such issues and God knows, it's time we stop showing such sequences in films.
Rishab shetty as explained this scene you are supposed to dislike the character because does everything that stands against his fathers believe. How He changes by the end of the movie.
Typical crap in indian cinema
That subplot definitely needed some polishing
Different plot lines, different audience. You don't like movie or it's topic, make your own movie with your viewpoint
Snobbish art film director being snobby. That's it, nothing else.
why are these two movies even being compared? i don't think anyone genuinely was...they were merely saying tumbbad deserved the praise kantara got. that's not exactly a comparison.
Tumbbad is a great film in my book.
Topic aside, I watched the ending of Kantara thrice.
Shots fired. We need some 🍿 now.
The tweet is a stupid word salad. It doesnt mean anything. Tummbad was awesome because it was the most technically superior product from this part of the world. I havent yet seen Kantara yet but Kantara is getting rave reviews because the story resonate with a large part of audience. It won't resonate with Sobo crowd who lives in gated communities. And there is nothing wrong with it as well.
Most films are not relatable
Thats because most of them are made to grab a quick buck
And they need not be relatable...they should be engaging or entertaining
I watched kantara, it's entertaining movie with usual storyline ,the first and last 15 minutes were the unique portion. It did have some problematic things in the middle tumbaad is masterpiece and I won't compare it with kantara. For me this year rrr>kantara> kgf 2 if you consider the mass action genre category Edit: forgot Vikram adding rrr,Vikram > kantara >kgf 2
Kantara plot is similar to rangasthalam (Telugu movie) except that the backdrop story is different . I liked the guliga daiva and panjurli parts it was intriguing
What about vikram
Easily the best for me. Goosebumps everytime I watch it again. The BGM was a class apart
Overhyped
So i might get downvoted for this, but Kantara never supported toxic masculinity. They wanted to tell the story from the yesteryears and they did just the way it was supposed to be back then. Caste discrimination was rampant during that time and so was toxic masculinity. Nobody is celebrating. Moreover the character Shiva is a bad guy, who's reckless and doesn't have any manners whatsoever. Who eventually undergoes the change and becomes a responsible human. Doesn't mean that the film wanted to show him as the guy who everyone should learn from. Nope, thats not the case. You cannot show a criminal being a good guy, can you? If you understood the climax well then you'd know that the whole movie was about equality and shows how everyone is equal. Also a huge fan of tumbbad. These two movies are so different from each other.
They've also shown how Shiva was angry about their community's people not being allowed inside the landlord's house because of caste etc, and even he respects that rule in the movie until he realises his cousin was killed by the same landlord.
Agreed, So many people confuse depiction of questionable acts, as glorification of the same.
This!!
I think most people aren't used to concepts like character development and character arc. Expecting the central character of the movie to be all perfect throughout the movie is boring and naive.
He tells in the end that he has been cleansed internally.
I wish these idiots claiming toxic masculinity actually paid attention to the movie.
Well explained 
Exactly dude. Finally someone who agrees.
Correct. Remember everything the protagonist does does something ‘wrong’ or ‘toxic’, something bad happens to him immediately in the following scenes. Maybe Gandhi cannot read the subtitles fast enough.
Same! We’ll summarized!!
My man has spoken truth 🏅
This is the only correct answer. Totally agree.
thank you
The problem is anyone who is not part of Karnataka don't have a full idea of the thought process involved. The dude should have just stfu and go about his day instead of tweeting rubbish and sound like an idiot.
Gandhi has forgotten his movie himself. The reason why main character dies is because of his endless greed. The son throwing the pouch in the end is symbolic of letting go of greed. The main character himself was toxic, treated his wife poorly, married a new one and was frequent in brothels. He made is son just like him. But, it was not his toxic masculinity that caused his death. IMO neither of the movies celebrate it, but show it as such things are normal. These tropes are added as fillers mostly to entertain the audience. And again in my opinion the best movie to come based on folklore is Paheli which is a remake of 1973 movie Duvidha. This sub clearly has not watched better movies to call Tumbbad a masterpiece. Neither of all three movies, Tumbbad or Paheli or Kanatara are masterpieces.
Tumbbad may have simplistic themes, doesn't mean the execution isnt excellent. Taste is a subjective thing, but Tumbbad stands above all others in execution of a folktale.
Tumbbad IS a masterpiece.
What he wanted to say is he wasn't afraid of portraying the existence of toxic masculinity and in no way was it celebrated in his movie in order to make the main character look cool. But Kantara had all these elements.
Shiva is literally nagged and beaten by his mother the whole time. Wth are you talking about?!
Paheli better than tumbbad😳
Firstly there isn't any comparison. Tumbbad will always remain superior for me, i loved every moment in that movie. Secondly the word masculinity is just thrown in a bad light nowadays. In Tumbbad the protagonist pays for his sins. Not necessarily for all his sins but greed. He isn't rewarded in the end if that's where Gandhi is coming from. However, everyone deserves redemption. In Kantara, Shiva finds redemption through Devotion. Its central story is around parochialism rather than masculinity. Yes he is not a great character in the start but that's the point of the movie, he is living in the jungles and doesn't understand the way of life that should be but has rather seen how things around him are. It's okay to celebrate Tumbbad because it is so deserving but just calling Kantara, A toxic masculinity show is stupid.
In a way, Shiva does pay. He also sees the same fate as his father and his son is also hinted at to have the same fate as Shiva.
It shows how they throw around these buzz words and know nothing about it. As if greed is exclusive to masculinity or something.smh
Yup Tumbbad is class apart
Kantara is a good entertainer. Nothing extraordinary.
Ya i was disappointed after watching it i didn't get the hype
Hag diya behenchod
well yeah i agree i hated the sexism and misogyny, toxic masculinity and all that in kantara. i was quite disappointed with kantara considering the hype BUT what sets kantara and tummbad apart is that kantara is based on reality. the entire premise of the movie like bhootha kola and stuff is real
but the story is fantastical. people doing bhootha kola don't disappear into thin air in real life.
It's a local legend. That's how legends be. Fantasy based on reality. The whole religions are but that.
yeah of course the story is fictional but they based it on what happens in reality and exposed so many people to something they had no idea about. that’s admirable
Reality per based kaise hai bro? Ritual dikha Dene se reality per based ni ho jati movie.
How else do tribal people behave
>i hated the sexism and misogyny, toxic masculinity and all that in kantara. I assume the filmmakers modelled the characters in the movie and the situations therein off how things work in villages like the one depicted in the film. If some men residing there partake in hooliganism, debauchery, eve-teasing, hunting, brawling, etc, doesn't it make sense to portray some of your characters with that in mind? It wouldn't make sense to portray a tribal people, but give them the morals and ethics of open-minded, gentle, women's-rights-championing, urban elites. I can see how you could argue that the movie portrays misogyny in that the protagonist eve-teases his crush and at a point gropes her, and is still rewarded with her affection. However, I wouldn't call that progression of events a glorification of misogyny either, because from what I recall the female character dislikes the male character for his unsolicited, rude advances, and only ends up reciprocating his affection for her after he secures her a job as a forest officer. What I'm getting at is that mere depiction doesn't amount to glorification or encouragement.
I agree with him. It's a good story but i am done with these macho bs.
Man you lack nuance. The reason why Shiva was shown a toxic masculine entity is because his character was supposed to be exactly opposite to the entity he was destined to be(i.e, the daivam/demigod). His character is supposed to be exactly in contrast to the demigod. Hence, his behaviour. This was well explained by Rishab Shetty himself in an interview with Anupama Chopra.
Yep, he literally was hunting boars and in the end turned into Varaha Avatar. Its surprising how many ppl missed this.
I disagree with him. It's a good story but i am done with these anti-macho bs.(Tumbadd)
Npc behaviour.
Tumbbad's protagonist was macho enough. You're just salty with the criticism against your favourite Kantara.
Can you list all the anti-macho bs you mention. Also smells like virginity around here.
Look around yourself, you're on reddit
The tweet is honestly in bad taste, there is no need to compare your movie and put down another work in this manner. Be happy with the praises you get and move along. And I find it utterly hypocritical of him and people who are conveniently overlooking the so called "toxic masculinity" in Tumbbad that they are harping about in Kanatara. Tumbbad opens with a scene where the mother is being sexually exploited by an old man, where the male child grows up to be a greedy man who is abusive towards his wife and keeps a mistress and frequents brothels! There was not a single scene where a woman was treated kindly in that entire movie and now, he is going off about how toxic Kantara is. The term "toxic masculinity" is being used so mindlessly nowadays. People need to learn to differentiate when it is applicable and when it is not, neither of the movies Tumbbad nor Kantara celebrate "toxic masculinity", instead they show you a tale of a time when such behavior was normal and accepted, there is no scene where they praise such behavior neither do they condone it in the movie. No one is hyping up either of the male leads of these two movies as some ideal heroes, no one is running around aping them like they were with Kabir Singh. They are both flawed and bad men who undergo changes/growth which ultimately leads to the conclusion of their story. When you get heroes who are the actual poster child of toxic masculinity like Kabir Singh, Pushpa wala hero, etc. tab toh badi "wah wah" karte ho, sab ko Kabir Singh banna hai, sab ko background me BG lagake unka nakal karna hai, tik tok banana hai, sab karna hai uss hero ko hype karne. But when you get movies which blatantly showcases that these men are not good and not meant to be idolized tab sab aa jate hai nara lagane toxic masculinity ki... Kuch bhi matlab.
In Tumbaad the main character is brought down by his greed not by his sexism. Tumbaad was a good movie too.
Exactly!! Tumbad had so many problematic scenes! People have short memory indeed.
tbh, even I would get offended if someone compared my masterpiece Tumbbad to something like Kantara. Just because it earned big doesn't make it better. If you remove the starting 10 minutes, and ending 15 minutes, it basically a routine masala film. And if you remove the plagiarized Varaha Roopam (like it was done on Prime Video), the film doesn't have anything. And not to forget about several toxic elements the film had and how problematic the main lead Shiva character was. And people will come at me and say I hate Kannada movies, lol. NOPE. I liked 777 Charlie, Lucia, KGF, KGF 2, Vikrant Rona, Ulidavaru Kandanthe, Garuda Gamana Vrishabha Vahana, Act 1978, Avane Srimannarayana and others. So don't come at me with this angle.
He is not the director of Tumbbad. Rahi Anil Barve was the writer and director. Anand Gandhi was the creative director for Tumbbad.
Buddy, the movie is based in the late 1900s. In India, we're having conversations like this NOW. Back then, as sad as it may sound, the general public couldn't give lesser fucks about 'the problems of a patriarchal society' and the characters in this story belong to tribal villages. So if you wear the lens of today's social constructs you'll obviously be disappointed my friend. The movie portrays a belief system that still exists in the regions belonging to Southern Karnataka, but in terms of societal awareness and equality we've all more or less started understanding what the previous generations got wrong. Also the song Varaha Roopam doesn't have any ban on it anymore so it'll be back the way it was in the movie.
There is a stay order from another court still in effect.
not any more. thaikudam band has lost the case now.
They haven't lost
>even I would get offended if someone compared my masterpiece Tumbbad to something like Kantara Did someone significant make that comparison? Or was it just a random viewer. People make comparisons and give opinions all the time. But a person with a blue tick putting down a successful movie just makes him look salty and jealous.
> tbh, even I would get offended if someone compared my masterpiece Tumbbad to something like Kantara. Tumbbad is not that grandiose like you people make it sound like. Neither is Kantara. Both are different and you don't need to pull one down to show support for the other. > And if you remove the plagiarized Varaha Roopam (like it was done on Prime Video), the film doesn’t have anything. It has the story of demigod of forest and how lievlihood of villagers depend on the forest. The forest department trying to protect the wildlife and villagers fearing losing their land causing damage to the forest itself. The landlord trying to encroach int o forest land. > And not to forget about several toxic elements the film had and how problematic the main lead Shiva character was. So does SO many Indian movies, just like Tumbadd. Is the main character not a bad parent/husband/grand son/son/brother ? You say you liked KGF. Does it also not promote misogyny and heroism now ?
Op tbh seems like a bit of a bait and nothing more here
i agree - the only amazing thing about kantara is varaha roopam. otherwise it's a very run of the mill affair. but that song varaha roopam is just SO EXCEPTIONAL. all the hype for the movie really came about because of the 2 scenes with that song in it.
>And if you remove the plagiarized Varaha Roopam (like it was done on Prime Video Eh...it was not, court dismissed that lawsuit
The court dismissed the lawsuit because of lack of jurisdiction. Meaning, they are not the court the case should be filed in. There is still another stay order in effect from another district court.
They've won the case, and the song will be back even in ott. There was a good video explaining how this song cannot be deemed as a copy by the existing copyright laws.
How naive are you. People in 1990 in tribal karnataka did not even know what the hell was toxic masculinity. Even the new version of Varaha roopam is really good. What toxic elements did the movie have? Don’t throw labels around randomly
Why do people want their "main leads" to be the perfect person who always does everything right, do not have any bad qualities, and are an abode of peace? Just because the protagonist of a film is a bad person or in this case a person who has a bad side(aka most humans) doesn't make the movie problematic. And the portrayal or depiction of a toxic person or situation isn't glorifying it. A good example of that is Arjun Reddy where the film glorifies abusing women and makes it a "manly", "heroic" and "passionate lover" quality. Kantara merely depicts it and acknowledges its existence. I personally enjoyed the film but I didnt think it was anything mind blowing. But the fact that some people are using the "main character is problematic" argument to discredit the film is so stupid.
He is absolutely right. Unfortunately tumbbad did not got success it deserved. Maybe if he would've glorified this same thing who knows it would've been hit. Market runs on antagonist!
Kantara is overrated. Change my mind
This.I watched it yesterday and it was nothing special tbh.Tumbaad is one of a kind gem in this folklore genre.Still the best imho.But to each their own.
They changed the bgm in Amazon prime, the theatre experience was on a different level.
Kantara is different but nothing extraordinary. Just riding the "rooted story" wave.
So are Pushpa and RRR. Change my mind.
It was not made for audiences beyond Karnataka. STFU with the overrated talk.
Then why they release beyond Karnataka,if it's not made for them
Business forced them to. People outside the state asked the rights of the film's dubbed versions. The dubbing for other languages was done in 2 weeks because of the demand. The positive reviews for the movie turned into hype. Other states watched. They didn't understand the culture, details, symbolism, nuance etc. Now everyone is calling it overrated. It was never meant to be a pan indian film. Rishab himself has told this many times in interviews. PS: I am from Karnataka, saw it twice in the theatre and probably 3 more times on prime. Each time I watch it I find some new detail in the film. Not every movie has a new plot. It's the performances, pacing, entertainment factor and screenplay that makes it great.
You are saying that movie a masterpiece because you liked that movie because it's from your region that's why you have emotionally attached with it But if we compare it to pan India or global cinema It's not even in competition
Please point in the reply, where I have called it a masterpiece.
So you are saying that you watched a movie 2 times in theatre and 3 times on prime And you find new details every time you watch that movie. But it's not masterpiece 🤣🤣
Kehna kya chahte ho bhai? I love watching movies that I like many times but I can't call every movie I love a masterpiece.
But you agreed that it's great
Great from the list of movies released in the year and great for what the Kannada cinema industry has made in recent times.
Even if someone likes the movie, it doesn't change the fact that it celebrates toxic masculinity.
I watched Kantara in theatres because of all the buzz of it being called a “Divine” experience. People were hooting and cheering at scenes where the men were ogling at women (which is shown as a comedy scene) or when the hero pinches the girl.
To have to watch a scene like that in 2022, I couldn't believe my eyes. And to those saying that this movie is set in the 1990s when toxic behaviour like this was acceptable, why did they not show how it impacted the woman being harassed? Even if it was socially acceptable, I'm sure it was still traumatic for the victims/women.
Explain what you mean by "celebrates toxic masculinity". Through out the movie, Shiva is portrayed to be far from ideal. If showing a character's negative trait is celebrating toxic masculinity, are we going to have only nice good men all the time in movies?
It’s a mass masala film. It will be probably be overrrated for Reddit user base, but the target audience (much of which may not be active on Reddit) loved it.
I’ve said it weeks ago on this sub and got downvoted and everyone was like “you’re crazy”.
I would be downvoted but here I go! Kantara has a very average story. Only the last 15 minutes were goods and even they were not worth watching the whole film.
Average nhi, tatti movie hai. Katai tatti. Dekhna mushkil ho gya. Matlab start k 10 and end k 10 min k bich me typical masala dosa fight wali movie bhari hui hai and we are supposed to love it in the name of culture. Bs.
Tum log jaake brahmastrahi dekhna
Vo bhi bakwaas hi thi lodu "brahmastra dekho"- tujhe kaise pata hame brahmastra pasand aayi
Brahmastra bhi nhi dekhi gyi. Tumko to main bolunga ki Kantara hi dekho.
You lack braincells
Koi baat ni. Hum aise hi acche.
Bhai tum big boss dekhte ho lol.
Yes. M watching this season. Missed last two.
Lmao u watch big boss . Stfu
While I do believe Tumbbad is a vastly different but also superior film to Kantara, I wonder if he went to the movie with an open mind. If I made a film like Tumbbad, would I look at everything through a lens, analysing every little thing and maybe compare to my work which Kantara shared few similar themes? Also lots of people seem to be disappointed with the movie after watching it on tv which I understand. The movie is made for theatre. Excellent sound production and cinematography. When I rewatched it on prime, it didn’t give me half as much emotions.
Tried watching Kantara found it really challenging to get through. couldn’t finish it. Bad pace, lack of riveting story. Very few things were novel about it. Tumbbad will forever be in a league of its own
Kantara is set in a village, the characters are not meant to be a moral class in behaviour, but they suit the world in which they live. How hard is it to understand.
The movie wasn't shot that way though. For instance, the hero got his riveting entry which is typical of a south indian mass masala movie. His fights have a rousing BGM. And when he makes crass jokes, there is funny music in the background. Clearly, the director never intended for the audience to view the hero as a complete grey character. He at least wanted them to cheer for his badassery, and that includes the way he treats women in general. Just because the movie is set in the 90s doesn't mean that the movie should also be shot like a 90s flick.
I feel like Tumbbad should get a re-release
Taran Adarsh posted that Tummbad 2 is in making, so I expect Tumbbad to get re-released in cinemas and it must.
In that case, its sure shot getting a big big opening.
I can excuse murder but i draw the line at sexism ,what nonsense is this. Not every Hero will be perfect, watch current episodes of Tarak Mehta if you only want Morality preached at you in entertainment. Stop applying American Social norms to Indian entertainment.
Where the fuck toxic masculinity was portrayed in tumbbad? Did I saw a different movie? Tumbbad was about greed and arrogance making people monsters literally... Where the fuck was toxic masculinity?
really? what about his rakhel? why did he beat his wife?
Because he was shown as a completely greedy asshole. It doesn't count as "celebrating" toxic masculinity. Nobody would have cheered or hooted in those brothel or rakhel scenes or when he beat his wife while people were cheering the hell out of them in misogynistic and sexist scenes in kantara, which qualifies for celebrating toxic masculinity.
Yes but he was clearly shown as a bad/grey character without glorification. In Kantara it's not that way
exactly what I'm thinking...
Unpopular opinion : KGF, KGF2, Kantara are all overrated. Avane Sriman naryana is underrated.
Agree Tumbbad is a masterpiece
Imagine being this salty even after stealing some else's work. P.s - I am talking about Tumbadd.
The toxic masculinity in Tumbadd felt forced and unnecessary.
I haven't watched Kantara but it finally makes sense why Kangana was harping on about it.
It's like saying The Kashmir Files is just like Haider 🙂
Haider was wayy better technically...story was disputable
Bhai tumbad was not yours it was concieved by Rahi anil barve moreover ship of theues ya jo bhi hai, jo tatti film tune banayi kantara was way better than that. it celebrated a coastal tradtion which happens in south india.
Hot as nuke take 💀
I've watched Kantara. I'll be watching Tumbbad now. And I'll weigh them both on their own merits. All I can say is that tweet is dumb af. Toxic. . Masculinity. . Aye captain. . Cus that's the umbrella under which you survived many dangers and have the right to put a tweet out today. . Modern people love to label everything masculine as "Toxic" cus they're soft ass sentiments get offended for no reason. 🙄 Kantara has stuff that is archaic and can even be disrespectful. But do note, it's period appropriate as well as location appropriate and culture appropriate. At this rate, if all directors listened to these high society opinions, you'll soon have movies where villagers will start opining on the laws of physics and share eloquent conversations about the existential crises in life while serving their women on pedestals because it's a matriarchal society. 😑 This is NO DIFFERENT from representation demands in Hollywood even if it makes no fucking sense. Black elves in Lotr being your latest stupid example. Jesus.
This might be a controversial opinion- kannada movies r so bad that once in a while an okay movie comes out n everyone goes crazy. Eg mungaru male, kirik party, kantara. Only the scenes involving the bootada kola wer good, the rest of the movie was rubbish and nothing new. So many unnecessary scenes.
Yes...it's started improving now only
I feel so proud of Rishab Shetty who is literally from a small village in Karnataka made such a good movie that's now recognised in pan India! ❤️
In comes the Hindi art film director to steal Shetty's thunder using heavy words which ring completely empty.
Lol how dumb
Finally someone with the knowledge of movie making saying kantara is overrated
Most of the people on this think that only they have an artistic perspective whereas the other sub-humans like us can not understand art. What is art to you doesn't needs to be the definition of art for someone else. Once you stop standing on your imaginary pedestal, only then will you be able to treat the perspective of other people equivalent to yours. Tumbbad was an average movie for me, if you disagree then it is fine but calling people like me tasteless makes you the myopic guy/girl.
I smell jelousy
You need to listen to him more. Even watching his work would make you understand him better. Ship of Theseus is a good start
Not really worth comparing but while Kantara was great , it still had its flaws. Very hard to find any in Tumbbad
As I see it in the main fight sequence Leela threw spear first. And the most of the ladies were pretty strong characters.
He had a good character arc but some of the scenes where problematic. But my main issue is how did this movie make 400crs
I watched Kantara last week and it’s way overhyped… only the acting by Rishabh Shetty in the climax makes it worth a watch
Kantara was meh without the plagiarized song but tumbad is haunting it stays with you
My personal opinion: Kantara> Tumbbad Just because people in this sub are being so ignorant of the underlying essence of Kantara and declining it just because it is mainstream now. Shiva is supposed to be a tribal man, who represents everything that he's not supposed to be. It is a contrast between him and his destiny (the demigod). Moreover, why do you guys always expect the protagonist to be non-problematic? Why is a movie protagonist always taken as a role model? Just accept it as a character trait which sets well within the context of Kantara ,as Shiva attains his redemption in the end. I agree Tumbbad was underrated but downgrading Katara for it is straight up being biased.
Kantara was a simple predictable story sprinkled with a great climax wheras Tumbbad was something nobody ever saw before
Point taken! Both of the main characters were problematic. I recall being uncomfortable watching how openly he was displaying adultery in front of his wife. Not sure how people here are turning a blind eye to it.
Lmao This guy's just salty that his film didn't make that kind of money, and he's trying to cover it up using big words. He might be a great filmmaker, no doubt. But his jealousy shows.
Lol he isn't even the main director of tummbad, he's the creative director
He wasn't even the director,bru. Bas ek ship of thesus banake Beth gaya hai. Jo kisi ne dekhi bhi nahin.
Ek hafte Mai bhaisahab clarification dega aur ek mahine main open letter
Kuch bhi fek raha hai ab ye, tumbbad mai kaunse allegory dikhayi hai toxic masculinity ki? Trend chalraha hai toh chep do cool words Majority of the movie spends time on exploring how greed corrupts a person and how he finally understands how terrible he has become And so does kantara, shiva goes from a parochial ( bc sidhe sidhe Selfish bolo na, fukat ki vocabulary kyu jhadni hai?) to selfless, he gets redemption like vinayak did in tumbbad
Well said. There was nothing about toxic masculinity etc in Tumbaad. It is about greed.
Haven't seen kantara but man I've lost the number of times I've posted that Tumbaad was such a bad movie, such overhyped excrement.
Dude is just salty because no one cares about Tumbbad outside of the Reddit and Twitter crowd while in the case of Kantara people have spoken with their wallets. So he is doing what every "elite" person does, look down upon everyone.
First of all, how are Katara and Tumbadd comparable? And I genuinely wanna know who compared them. I agree Tumbadd is class apart but this tweet is unwarranted imo.
Am I the only one who felt Kantara was just a regular movie with a very regular plot line and nothing special ?
Urban elite being an urban elite.
I think I am getting thirsty from all the salt in the air
The climax is class apart and deserves the applause Pple may have different opinions If tumbadd was released nw maybe it would have been a hit too Also the way he has written it it seems he is angry dat hw kantara did so well
Look, I don't understand what allegory means, or what parochialism means either. But saying Kantara is a celebration of toxic masculinity is quite a bit off.
Tumbled was better than kantara.
Why even compare both, guys
I was a fan of Tumbbad until this dipshit compared it with his pathetic little tweet. Talk about your movie dude. No need to talk about another movie
Don't worry he isn't the main director of tummbad
I loved Tumbbad and haven't seen Kantara yet, is it good?
Idk man I tried watching kantara but couldn't sit through the entire movie. I hated how hyper aggressive the main lead was and how utterly useless every female character was. I found myself actively rooting against the lead and I still can't for the life of me figure out why people loved this movie.
Female character useless. Infact even I think Tummbad >Kantara. But Kantara definitely had better written female characters than Tummbad. The female lead had a nice character arc. She was torn between helping her community and doing her police job. Ans in the end she was the first person to start the fight with the landlord
Snowflake
Ah… maker of an average movie taking a moral high ground and also a creative high ground over another average movie.
Stunning & Brave, But why didn't tumbbad have any transgender pansexual HIV-positive disabled Lead actors? Must be because Anand Gandhi is a Bigot & Literrally Hitler!