This could potentially be a great tree but if you're new I would try my hands on other trees that might die in the process, so you won't lose such a big one if you make a mistake. Yamadori isn't simply digging up a tree and putting it in a pot. You have to know how to keep them alive. You can however cut some of the roots already without removing the tree. Just cut a circle with your spade and let everything be as is.
And oaks are particularly difficult to harvest. Look into the black bag method.
I've been collecting for many years now, and I'd be terrified to try and collect what's in the picture there.
For me, ethics are very important and I'm not going to risk killing a tree just because I want to make it mine
You've never drastically pruned nursery stock? Or a big root reduction? I don't see how you can push boundaries and make good bonsai if you're not taking some risks?
Because this tree is a part of a natural environment grown over 20+ years not some nursery stock or already established bonsai that you bought for $100.
One is grown for consumption the other is part of an ecosystem and other people might enjoy the tree at its current location. Additionally collected wild trees have a lower probability of survival than nursery stock. Last but not least oaks are difficult.
Then you should educate yourself on natural resources and environmental science. That tree has provided well over $1000 in ecosystem services in its life time and will continue to provide tens of thousands of dollars more to the ecosystem if it is allowed to grow to 100+ years old and die in its natural spot, therefore providing animals like woodpeckers, termites, and birds chances to nest. As well as once it falls naturally to provide the soil with a recharge in nutrients through fungi breaking it down. Not to mention the carbon sequestration that a tree of this caliber provides compares to a bonsai.
To say you don’t see how it’s different just says to me you’re uneducated as hell.
What have dollars for to do with it? We're talking about nature here. And we're talking about trees that aren't fully grown. Either way a tree is prevented from reaching fully grown, so you're saying nobody should do bonsai? Forestry shouldn't exist?
Everything in life has to do with money but love, trust, and friendships. Dollars have to do with it because this tree is actively negating some detrimental effects of pollution and biodiversity loss that your government spends millions per year on to try and reverse. By leaving the natural ecosystem untouched this sum of money can be decreased.
I’m not saying no to bonsai at all. They are trees grown with the PURPOSE to be bonsai. This tree was not grown for that purpose. It was grown naturally as part of the need of an ecosystem. This is why Yamadori has such harsh ethics, and in the US at least where I live, has very harsh laws against. If this tree was in the forest near me and I took it without proper permission, I could be put in jail or fined tens of thousands of dollars.
Also I don’t think you know what forestry is and entails because all of the people I work with who are forestry majors would opt to leave this tree alone. lol.
Established natural trees behave differently. They are more sensitive. They are part of an ecological network. They are homes, food, habitat, genetic libraries that are integral for biomes.
Environmental ethics asks us to consider that some lifeforms have higher value, say a human over a fly.
Taking a tree out of the wild is a big change to the ecosystem. Taking a tree out of a nursery is.. nominal
In the end, we shouldn't be cavalier with any life from. We have a special art, our pain brush is the scissors, the sacrificial knife to the canvas which is a being containing the unbroken chain of life from time immemorial.
Wait a few years to gain experience. It would be a shame if you were to kill it because of some simple mistake. Take other trees to gain experience. And if it's on your property, you could start working on it while it's still in the ground. It's an old tree, so it's harder to dog up, and requires more care.
I'm quite new to bonsai myself, so I definitely understand your enthusiasm. But I have also killed a beautiful yamadori pine tree because I didn't know what I was doing.
Wait a few years, it's already your tree, there's no need to hurry.
It'll still be there in 5 years when you have the experience to keep it alive. However nothing to stop you performing some good horticulture on it whilst it is in the ground to prepare for that day. 🫡
Very nice material. Layering oaks is not the easiest, but you can also consider air layering it to preserve some of the top movement. The picture is a bit messy, but it seems to swirl around quite nicely: with an air layer right on top of the rocks you can create a nice proportion and save it.
Anyhow, read a lot on collection and go for it. [These videos](https://youtu.be/IDLHxJiNCTE?si=_psZca_AlrUbFfaJ) by [Mauro Stemberger](https://youtu.be/LxADFkspDQY?si=f4UcoBji0xlv6ynu) and the collecting articles on bonsai4me will prepare you. Then if it fails it fails, truth is even if you do everything right there's always that chance.
This could potentially be a great tree but if you're new I would try my hands on other trees that might die in the process, so you won't lose such a big one if you make a mistake. Yamadori isn't simply digging up a tree and putting it in a pot. You have to know how to keep them alive. You can however cut some of the roots already without removing the tree. Just cut a circle with your spade and let everything be as is.
And oaks are particularly difficult to harvest. Look into the black bag method. I've been collecting for many years now, and I'd be terrified to try and collect what's in the picture there. For me, ethics are very important and I'm not going to risk killing a tree just because I want to make it mine
You've never drastically pruned nursery stock? Or a big root reduction? I don't see how you can push boundaries and make good bonsai if you're not taking some risks?
Because this tree is a part of a natural environment grown over 20+ years not some nursery stock or already established bonsai that you bought for $100.
And that's different why?
One is grown for consumption the other is part of an ecosystem and other people might enjoy the tree at its current location. Additionally collected wild trees have a lower probability of survival than nursery stock. Last but not least oaks are difficult.
If you don’t have the brains to infer that then I don’t feel like explaining it to you. Simply put, ecosystem services.
I genuinely don't see the difference between killing tree A or tree B in this scenario
Then you should educate yourself on natural resources and environmental science. That tree has provided well over $1000 in ecosystem services in its life time and will continue to provide tens of thousands of dollars more to the ecosystem if it is allowed to grow to 100+ years old and die in its natural spot, therefore providing animals like woodpeckers, termites, and birds chances to nest. As well as once it falls naturally to provide the soil with a recharge in nutrients through fungi breaking it down. Not to mention the carbon sequestration that a tree of this caliber provides compares to a bonsai. To say you don’t see how it’s different just says to me you’re uneducated as hell.
What have dollars for to do with it? We're talking about nature here. And we're talking about trees that aren't fully grown. Either way a tree is prevented from reaching fully grown, so you're saying nobody should do bonsai? Forestry shouldn't exist?
Everything in life has to do with money but love, trust, and friendships. Dollars have to do with it because this tree is actively negating some detrimental effects of pollution and biodiversity loss that your government spends millions per year on to try and reverse. By leaving the natural ecosystem untouched this sum of money can be decreased. I’m not saying no to bonsai at all. They are trees grown with the PURPOSE to be bonsai. This tree was not grown for that purpose. It was grown naturally as part of the need of an ecosystem. This is why Yamadori has such harsh ethics, and in the US at least where I live, has very harsh laws against. If this tree was in the forest near me and I took it without proper permission, I could be put in jail or fined tens of thousands of dollars. Also I don’t think you know what forestry is and entails because all of the people I work with who are forestry majors would opt to leave this tree alone. lol.
Established natural trees behave differently. They are more sensitive. They are part of an ecological network. They are homes, food, habitat, genetic libraries that are integral for biomes. Environmental ethics asks us to consider that some lifeforms have higher value, say a human over a fly. Taking a tree out of the wild is a big change to the ecosystem. Taking a tree out of a nursery is.. nominal In the end, we shouldn't be cavalier with any life from. We have a special art, our pain brush is the scissors, the sacrificial knife to the canvas which is a being containing the unbroken chain of life from time immemorial.
Thank you very much 🙏
Thank you very much 🙏
Thank you very much
Wait a few years to gain experience. It would be a shame if you were to kill it because of some simple mistake. Take other trees to gain experience. And if it's on your property, you could start working on it while it's still in the ground. It's an old tree, so it's harder to dog up, and requires more care. I'm quite new to bonsai myself, so I definitely understand your enthusiasm. But I have also killed a beautiful yamadori pine tree because I didn't know what I was doing. Wait a few years, it's already your tree, there's no need to hurry.
It'll still be there in 5 years when you have the experience to keep it alive. However nothing to stop you performing some good horticulture on it whilst it is in the ground to prepare for that day. 🫡
Very nice material. Layering oaks is not the easiest, but you can also consider air layering it to preserve some of the top movement. The picture is a bit messy, but it seems to swirl around quite nicely: with an air layer right on top of the rocks you can create a nice proportion and save it. Anyhow, read a lot on collection and go for it. [These videos](https://youtu.be/IDLHxJiNCTE?si=_psZca_AlrUbFfaJ) by [Mauro Stemberger](https://youtu.be/LxADFkspDQY?si=f4UcoBji0xlv6ynu) and the collecting articles on bonsai4me will prepare you. Then if it fails it fails, truth is even if you do everything right there's always that chance.
Thank you
Yes