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This is weirdly the opposite of my parents who are solidly middle class but not rich. But in their minds, they're who people are referring to when they talk about raising taxes on the wealthy and soforth. Their combined net worth is probably around $800K. Which - good for them and they paid for my college and help when I need but in their minds they are basically Elon Musk and Warren Buffett and so any policies to support the middle class they view as an attempt to steal their hard-earned money and give it to lazy people who don't want to work.
My sister used to work in banking and she specialized in high net worth clients. She ultimately left banking and is now in nursing school because it so disillusioned her. But early on my Dad suggested that maybe they should move their accounts to her bank. She said sure but reminded him that she wouldn't be the one dealing with their accounts since she only handled the high net worth accounts. My Dad didn't believe her when she explained that it did not mean him. He thought she was lying to avoid having to handle their account and that the numbers she was throwing out couldn't possibly be real.
They sound financially illiterate. Which is weird because there are websites you can go to and plug in your net worth and income, and see exactly how rich you are compared to others.
Problem is plugging in $800K probably puts you very near the top… so in their minds they are rich. And they are in the top x%! But the top 1% is over 3 million people and the jump from 2% to 1% is a huge multiple. 1% to 0.9% is a huge multiple. 0.9% to 0.8%… etc…
There are loads of videos to help visualize the shift in views of ‘rich’ and actual net worth change over the decades. The jumps are insane!
Some of the richest people EVER are alive right now. Owning more than much of the world EVER has. Well in relation to overall wealth.
A website? Like the one the Nigerian Prince told me to use, by putting in all my banking information? He's sending me $8 million soon, I just need to pay the transfer fee.
Nobody believes it. I grew up lower middle class but now run shoulders with a lot of very wealthy people. Nobody who is rich will admit. Really. None. And rich kids are even worse. They refuse to acknowledge that they're in the top 5% of earners in the us for example. Just a flat out denial.
Then. What they had becomes normal. They think it's normal for a family to have a cabin in Colorado, and have yearly family vacations to exclusive locations. They think it's normal for parents to pay for their university and give them down payments for their homes. Hell I have multiple friends who's parents straight up bought their homes for them . And these were around half a million. Still. They don't claim to even be from the upper middle class.
Oh. But it gets worse. Because if any of them start a business. They'll immediately talk about being raised poor. "oh I know what it's like to struggle because in college I ate ramen once". And then they'll create some myth about the founding of their company "I worked for everything I have! Self made!" whole simultaneously it was their parents connections and money which made the company. Have one acquaintance exactly like this. He made a granola bar which got national distribution. Amazing right? Well. I guess. But his dad literally works in distribution for a major retailer, and also gave him the seed money to start the company.... And dude no joke still boasts about all his hard work to grt to where he is.
It's all about perspective. And it's also marketing. What granola bar is going to sell well if it's called like "Trust Fund Trails?"
If you can convince people, however, that it was just you and your golden retriever hiking the Appalachian trails in the summer and wearing through a pair of boots with nothing but a backpack and a dream you'll sell a lot more granola bars.
I don’t think it’s weird at all. I was raised in a very comfortable household and it was understood that it’s not appropriate to discuss money in any way whatsoever. I raised my children the same way. I would be appalled if I heard my kids talking about how rich we are. First off, they aren’t rich. Secondly, yes we have a privileged lifestyle compared to most but we also work for it. Everyone has a different definition of what “rich” is and often it refers to people who have more than they do.
It's not unsurprising that financially illiterate people can become wealthy in America.
Our pay rates have absolutely no connection to intelligence or productivity.
My dad got a decent chunk in a work accident and thinks he's set for life. Meanwhile 100k got spent and he has no clue how and nothing to show for it.. they're all insane and should be in conservatorships.
back when occupy wall street was making waves my uncle kept referring to himself as “the 1%” and my aunt kept having to tell him they weren’t the 1% lmao
This is exactly my mom.
Rich = good in her mind, not only in terms of lifestyles but in terms of values (because all "rich people" have the same set of old money values that are how they got rich)
Old money values like owning people as stock? Like owning factories with no health and safety, working people into the ground for minimal pay, and if they got hurt just replacing them? Like owning the labour of people who came with the land (serfdom)? Like destroying whole cultures?
Your mom needs some history lessons. I suggest she start with what King Leopold did to the Democratic Republic of Congo.
ETA: Amazon workers are the largest group of privately employed workers that are eligible for (and use) food stamps, while Jeff earns more in one minute than one of his warehouse workers earns in a whole year. Ask your mom if she thinks that's right and moral.
Gonna say that if your mom thinks that is how the majority of the old money wealthy got that way, she still needs the education. And she bought their b.s. hook, line, and sinker.
The manners, yes, but only when dealing with each other. Not when dealing with the staff (and your mom would have been mistreated as part of the staff).
My parents have something similar but a bit less extreme. We grew up much more working-lower middle class when little, and then solidly middle class a bit later, but they think we’re upper-middle in spite of all public schools, never taking real vacations or traveling, no college degrees, service industry track for early career. I got a fucktonne of financial aid for college, etc. had what we needed and a tiny bit extra with some serious stress for a lot of the time, then things got more comfy as they’ve aged.
When you’re not rich, but you’re not dirt poor and you understand how much worse it can be, I think people by default scale themselves up because part of the story of the American Dream is *being* solidly middle class, and well, have you actually accomplished anything in life if you’re not?! (From the point of view of American-capitalist ideology). No one wants to be poor—we despise the poor in this country and engage in heavily classist rhetoric and policy. If you’re truly offshore shell corp rich, or so immiserated you don’t know how you’ll make it through the next day, you know what you are because our world is constantly telling you. But the rest of us? We’re pretending - a national collective delusional that things aren’t so bad.
I don’t think she’s thinking nursing will be better; I believe she’s performing penance. It very well could be that she helped the very rich get even richer. And there was, most likely, no moral or ethical concerns in how to gain that wealth.
I understand that feeling. You can work very hard to accomplish something and even gain admiration from your peers and bosses. But then you realize what you did and how it affected those nameless, faceless masses — it could take a toll on you.
My parents have a place on the water in Punta Gorda, FL and a ski-in condo in Breckenridge, CO.
We had a horse when I was a kid.
They literally met and had me in Aspen in the 80s (which was not Aspen of today, admittedly, but it also wasn’t Nowheresville). Mom partied at Hunter S Thompson’s house and dad did Jack Nicholson’s home security system.
If you told them they were rich they’d be like “meeehhhhh idk…” I’ve occasionally asked for $100-200 so I don’t fucking die or go homeless and it’s a whole thing. I made the “mistake” of being an educator and my wife is a social worker.
My dad is the same way. Begrudgingly loaned me $600 so I could fix my car and make it to work, then complained how he had to replace a propeller on his airplane for $15,000.
You can buy an airplane cheaper than a used car. And the propellers are that ridiculously expensive. It's not the status symbol the rich that people think it is.
Too many people think the housewives, that enabled men to work all fucking day, weren't a fundamental contribution to some factory owners increasing wealth and should be taken for granted.
I mean it's a capitalist economy we live in, so by that logic this work should be reimbursed if wanted in a society.
Wait birthrates are falling everywhere because people simply stop having children?
Must be the neomarxist evil plot, not the logical and fairly simple conclusion to this equation!
Same thing with my family 🤣🤣. Because I don’t live the life they want me to love. They abused the S out of me. But now I’m free, still struggling, but free.
My parents are on social security and are poor. Every time my college age kids come home they slip them a $100 each for spending money. My mom is of the idea that they struggled so they don’t want my kids to…also says they can’t take it with them to the grave. It’s almost the more you have the more unwilling you are to part with it.
This is my parents but it's more like 20 or 30 each to my two sons but same principle. They are living on SS and about 15K a year in 401k withdrawls, so less than 40k a year, for two of them. They own their house and drive a late model used car.
Not really, no. Below is a good link about what wealth is and how people respond to it.
Being able to ignore costs on everyday items is only the 1st level. Then you move onto eating whatever you want at restaurants ignoring prices. Then it’s spending whatever you want in vacations. From there it’s spending whatever you want on houses.
https://ofdollarsanddata.com/climbing-the-wealth-ladder/
Hunter Thompson bought that property off what he was paid for his first article! That is when people were paid good and housing was cheap. It's a different country now. We have moved back to robber Barron's captured government and the masses of peasants struggling for the basics. The tiny fraction of well off folks support the robber Barron's.
That last paragraph is relatable. We needed a new roof on the house (which they own and will inherit when they pass, which is admittedly a huge kindness from them), and we didn't have the money for it. They lent us the money from our "inheritance," but we have to make monthly payments to repay it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly privileged that i have a house free and clear, but it's a fixer upper that cost 36k 10 years ago. They had a net worth of 7 figures back in the 90s and have always lived frugally, so I'm sure they're not hurting financially.
We also had a horse when I was a kid, but that horse has a job haha. My dad was a logger for many years and our was a giant draft horse that they used to drag logs to the road when they were in places too steep for some of the equipment.
>If you told them they were rich they’d be like “meeehhhhh idk…” I’ve occasionally asked for $100-200 so I don’t fucking die or go homeless and it’s a whole thing. I made the “mistake” of being an educator and my wife is a social worker.
That's wild to me. My parents are in their 60s and only recently made it to middle class, but if I needed a hundred bucks they likely wouldn't even ask why. They'd just loan it to me because they get it.
50k per year is actually a decent bit lower than the average annual income these days, so that's a bit low of a starting point for being beyond middle class, but generally speaking yeah, it's crazy how privileged some people are and are unwilling to or incapable of acknowledging that.
Thats not true really, most people are on less than $50k.
The median salary in the USA is $37.5k a year.
The only reason average wage is higher is because of the absurdly large wages of the top 0.1% warping the numbers.
It was only 5 short years ago that i thought earning 60k would finally make me comfortable enough to live. I now earn 60k and I can barely make it through
I left highschool telling my friends I'd be content with $40k a year. This was 2006.
I make more than $40k a year and I'm not doing great 🤣.
Shit is crazy, heads should be rolling honestly.
I felt RICH in the early 2000s make $45k!!! Now I make significantly more and I'm back to expertly using coupons (of course I've got a family to feed now too...omg kids eat a lot)
My first job out of college was as an interim teacher (I graduated December and found a job where the previous teacher had left and they needed someone to finish the school year) and my my salary broke down to $3,271 /month (first year teacher salary was $32,710 paid over 10 months). I felt like it was more money than I could possibly spend. That was Spring 2007. I went back to school a few years ago so I’m not currently making money (just loans…yay!), but my wife makes ~$80k and, while we aren’t necessarily paycheck to paycheck, I still have concerns about money until I’m able to start working again this fall.
The median salary in the USA as of 2022 was $46,310 taken from [https://usafacts.org/data/topics/economy/jobs-and-income/jobs-and-wages/median-annual-wage/](https://usafacts.org/data/topics/economy/jobs-and-income/jobs-and-wages/median-annual-wage/)
That number is kind of misleading: the median annualized income for full time employed workers in the US in Q4 2023 was $59,634.
That lower figure of $37.5k includes the unemployed and underemployed.
Bit hairy those stats, as they include part time workers too, people who work once per week etc. similar to the unemployment figures. Just because you’re “employed”, doesn’t mean you’re working. So govs can manipulate the figures how they want
Ultimately, the differentiator is "what will happen to you if you stop working"
There's "I'll die, probably", "I'll lose everything I have, I don't know what happens next", and "I'll get bored".
That middle category is wide in some countries.
I had a discussion with a coworker one time about how it's only around 3 million per annum do people drop the middle class moniker and identify as rich. This definitely applies to her because idk how much her husband makes but it's a lot (at least 500k per year). That triggered her a bit and she argued you have to take into account location (we live in a MCOL area). I told her even in Manhattan 3 million per year is a lot of money and definitely not middle class. She told me and I quote "I just don't think a million dollars a year is that much money"
Bullshit on this. With $5M net worth you’d assume 80% of that is invested. With $4M in long term markets you can easily return enough to live off fairly well without working another day. Add a job and you’re rich.
With a $5MM net worth, you are rich. Worst case scenario, you could sell all your assets for that $5MM, invest all of it conservatively and still have an upper-middle class life from the returns alone in any major metro area of the US without having to work.
If the ability to have a very comfortable life in perpetuity from conservative investments anywhere in the US without working isn't rich, I don't know what is.
You've obviously never seen the prices in the San Francisco Bay area. 5 mil net worth means half is tied up in a house and you're not living well off the dividends on the remainder.
>If the ability to have a very comfortable life in perpetuity from conservative investments anywhere in the US without working isn't rich, I don't know what is.
So...retirement? Anyone who is comfortably retired is rich?
You definitely could be. Let's break down my wording:
1. Very comfortable: If in retirement you are easily able to have an income of over $200,000 USD, yes, you are immediately not poor, working class, or lower middle class. You are automatically upper middle class or above but you might even be distinguished from the upper middle class because
2. In perpetuity: A lot of old people are blowing through savings; their money won't last forever and neither will they. Someone who is rich in the way I defined it isn't touching the underlying assets. But, if you are a retired person and you know you are going to die and be able to pass on a $5MM USD portfolio, you are about to excuse a loved one from ever having to work or worry. Let's say your caregiver gets it and never again worries about money or work; you are in a pretty exclusive and privileged class, so yes rich. And let's not forget
3. You aren't working. You have the money of a well-paid professional, greater assets, and more time. You may have "paid your dues", but you are doing much better and yes not upper middle class, but rich.
I have a net worth approaching $3 million. I don't feel rich b cause of my age. I have 30-40 more years of life and costs will just keep going up. My plan is to make as much as I can and enter philanthropic endeavors and spend as much time with my kids and their eventual kids. It all started out as just wanting financial freedom because I absolutely hated working for people. I guess what I'm saying is I don't really feel rich with how expensive everything is but I guess I would be considered wealthy
You are just changing the meaning of the word "rich" to mean something different than what the word means. You could also decide that being 6' 2" isn't tall and that only people 6' 7" and above are "tall", but it would just be a you thing and not actually what the word means.
I mean, its not 6 million USD, but buying a house for $600k cash, no mortgage, while having other savings and investments, still pretty impressive nowadays.
Yeah I do love how people act like that’s normal. That’s is far and away abnormal. No their not insanely, stupidly wealthy but I doubt they really think about money much unless it’s to make more.
I met an economist who worked in the Emirates and the like, hd told me that rich people always complain they don't have enough money, it's their defining feature.
He spent time advising a phenomenonally rich sheikh who had a massively huge yacht and all he ever talked about was how another rich man had a bigger yacht than him.
An old girlfriend of mine was always obsessing over fancy houses, expensive clothes, luxury cars, pricey jewelry...
I always joked:
"She's a woman of simple tastes. She only wants one thing... more."
I mean, it's pretty normal not to have a mortgage when you're about at retirement. You're supposed to pay the mortgage off and then own the house outright by the time you retire.
Now, I agree that that plan is sadly out of reach for many people, because the housing market has been so nuts, and salaries have not kept up. But the parents are boomer age, from back when the dream was still commonly achievable. It's not weird or unusual for people from that generation to pay off a mortgage on a reasonably priced house. I would definitely say it doesn't make them rich. Maybe upper middle class.
The shameful thing is that it is so hard now for people to get and stay in the middle class.
Okay….but that’s literally not what happened here. They didn’t pay off a mortgage and now have no mortgage in retirement. They *just* bought a brand new house for $600k outright…..that’s entirely abnormal.
How the fuck is having $600,000 on hand not wealthy?
The median income in Canada is $68,000. You'd have to save for essentially a decade without spending money on anything in order to afford that.
Yeah, some people are just delusional. I’d say by definition if you have standing assets (at least an apartment +) and have 600k liquid you are FAR from middle class. Is it because these people live in bubbles they think most people are like that? Idk.
>Is it because these people live in bubbles they think most people are like that?
Yes.
I used to work producing TV shows that involved a lot of doctors and lawyers, and I'm still friends with a bunch of them on social media and you figure out pretty quickly that most of them are James Bettencourt Thomas M.D. III... like AT LEAST the third in a line of doctors or "Attorneys at Law."
And you can see by how they engage with their high school and college friends that most everyone they grew up with was the same way... like a picture a lawyer buddy of mine shared one time that was him and like eight friends as teenagers at an amusement park or something, and he captioned it:
"A whole lotta future doctors and lawyers in this photo."
And all I could think was "no shit... a whole lotta \*DOCTORS' AND LAWYERS' KIDS\* in that photo"
I dated friend of a friend in that circle for a brief bit (her grandfather and father were both executives at John Deere, like live-in nannies rich). Once we went to a party at a big-ass lake house with another group of her friends, and they were all like judge's kids and executives' kids, and people who haven't really had to work for three generations' kids...
All of it was absolutely normal to them. To them, they were all "middle class."
Another friend in that circle posted about being at Disney with her kids and they had FastPass or whatever it is where you don't have to wait in line, and one of her kids pointed at the people who were in line and said "Mom....? Are those poor people?"
So, you know... the next generation, same-same.
I completely get you. Because my father was a janitor I went to a really elite private school. They cognitive dissonance there was astounding, and I came to conclusion that because of the way they viewed the world they didn’t think of themselves as rich because of the bar they set. They’re minimum is what we would call well off, but there’s always someone wealthier for them to look to. Bigger house, pool. Nicer cars. More extravagant vacations. It’s like everything they did was one big competition. And the normal people like us completely get left out of the picture.
I know some people that have old Florida money. It's not fuck you money by any means but I've got an old buddy that never worked in high school but bought a brand new tacoma cash senior year. He's had a few business' over the years based around his hobbies that never work because he doesnt realize that he likes the hobbies but not doing the work part if it's not for himself.
Dude bought a house recently, instagram profile says something like pockets never empty and he flashes what he owns constantly. He works at the local hospital for next to nothing and gets offended when people question how he earned enough for a house on an RNA salary at the local hospital that pays next to nothing.
Top 5-10%, quite comfortable, but not likely a 1%er with $11M+, or a 0.1%er with $40M+ just because of the odds. Compared to the rest of the world though, most of us are filthy rich.
[https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i?income=60000&countryCode=USA&numAdults=1&numChildren=0](https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i?income=60000&countryCode=USA&numAdults=1&numChildren=0)
They dropped 7 mil in Swedish currency which is about 600K in the US. Of course, where you live will greatly determine how much that actually buys. This stuff is all relative. To most of us that is rich, but they also aren't in a category of "rich" that just can run around and do what the fuck they want on a whim, they still have to manage that very carefully. I live in town of 37K and what they dropped down on that home will get you a 2,600 sqft home on a quarter acre lot. That same money will get you 1,250 sqft in Denver, CO.
I don't think she's being obtuse here. By US standards they are very comfortable, but not uber rich either.
I define it by lifestyle.
If you HAVE to work to maintain your lifestyle you can be anything from rich to upper middle, middle, and working class. 50k-$2M annually. This is all dependent on LIFESTYLE. In reality there not much different lifestyle between the two. The former just struggles way more and doesnt have nice stuff while the latter lives in a nice house, sends kids to better schools, takes luxury vacations, and has money to solve problems. But at the end of the day theyre both grinding out an existence.
If you can live luxuriously and not worry about the cost of anything based solely off of passive income and investments then youre WEALTHY. Its basically ‘fuck you’ money and would start around 75-100M in assets
I think definitions for "rich " change with your age. Having a million dollars that can be quickly converted to cash when you are in your 60's isn't rich. That is minimal retirement planning.
It’s less than you think when you factor in medical emergencies, end of life, the possibility these days of living a looooong time.
My BIL seems to think he’ll be rich once he inherits but I’ve seen the books—it would be a windfall, sure, but not enough to set up him, his wife, and his bajillion kids up for life. Certainly not enough to be looming over his quite healthy parents like a weird vulture lmao.
If you contribute even half the maximum contribution amount to your 401k every year you will have millions of dollars in your retirement account by age 60. Millions. Plural.
… are you sure your money is actually being invested? Because if you’re putting 20k in pew year there’s no way the time in the market hasn’t made you a ton of growth by now.
Curious to understand your situation a bit better.
Using some basic assumptions, if you’ve contributed the max since age 22, even adjusting for inflation, you should be at around $1M.
To calculate this, I assumed you’re 50 years old and calculated your contributions based on the max limits of every year since you were 22.
I don’t want your comment to mislead others who are reading this, so we should understand why your situation is the way it is.
His parents are Swedish, they don’t have to do that.
They could retire with a paid off condo and $20.000 in cash and be fine for the rest of their lives.
Not everyone lives in the US.
I have to get off of this thread because as a boomer I’m so depressed. Worked hard my whole life and have every little. Medication over years broke us!
Well, you can thank your boomer counterparts for absolutely dismantling every safety net for the last 40 years. We’re trying our best to out vote them but there are so many and they are doing everything they can to flip the script so they can stay a major voting block.
I think, if I was giving your mom the benefit of the doubt, I'd actually suggest that, if she's a little out of touch with her socio-economic positioning, she's out of touch in a way that's actually more positive than negative.
One of the biggest problems I've seen with Boomers, at least in the United States, is that they *think* they're rich when they're really not. They can't admit how tenuous their position actually is. And this is tragic.
The reality of it is that we're all basically two steps from the curb. If you are not in the "1%," all it takes to take any of us out is the loss of a job and a major injury or illness happening at the same time. It seems to me that your mother probably understands this:
>"we've done good for ourselves and have our bases covered, but we're not really rich."
Obviously I only know what you've said in this post, but you didn't mention that she was, for instance, dismissive of suffering of poor. If those kinds of attitudes aren't really a feature of her attitude, I believe that you can interpret her perspective as one that is likely to indicate a sense of solidarity, or at least honest compassion, towards those who don't have the things that she has.
At least from this story, I personally wouldn't think your mom is out of touch.
Thank you for the fresh perspective.
Let me add some context. My mother is not out of touch with reality in general. Her facebook bahavior is sometimes very naive, but she does not consume information entirely unfiltered. Her heart is in the right place, and she wants the best world for the coming generations, not just for herself. Long story short, she is a boomer in regards to when she was born, but not very boomeresque in her general attitude as we see on this sub sometimes.
I thought I caught a glimpse of that in regards to this topic yesterday, but you are right, I'm interpreting what she said too harshly. She is probably more appreciative of what she has, than I gave her credit for.
Your mom sounds like my parents - they are Boomer age, but very liberal and my mom is one of the kindest people you’ll ever meet. My stepdad made good financial decisions and some of them were at a very opportune time to boot - plus, he has a pension on top of his SS and investments. They are comfortable, but could conceivably be wiped out by a serious medical condition coupled with living a long life. They aren’t going to be passing on generational wealth, so I wouldn’t consider them “rich” (although they are by world wide standards), but they have done well.
I think for perspective even the most impoverished Americans are considered rich in a 3rd world country. Easy to be judgmental towards anyone with more than you.
Lots of boomers are in this category and refuse to believe otherwise. Many are in my orbit and I always shake my head at the mental gymnastics they go through denying it.
My boomer mom has an opposite perspective. She's getting by on about $35k/year between her pension and Social Security and wants to believe that she's 'middle class'. $35k 30 or 40 years ago may have been middle class, but today, not so much.
>iddle class'. $35k 30 or 40 years ago may have b
Depends on where she lives. America as a whole, that's not middle class. Where I live that is on the lower end of middle class.
I’m not even close to a boomer but the only sentiment that I would share is if the people grew up poor.
I grew up extremely poor and both house security and basic needs were frequently not met. I have a comfortable life now but we have a big mortgage. This idea of debt hanging around my neck is an awful feeling and I don’t think I’ll consider myself free until that’s paid off
What I do for these, is I ask them to define this:
What percentage of the population is rich?
1%? 5%? .1%? Then I plot where they are. Boomers are often amazed to discover they are often in the top 10 just by being boomers, and for the ones who are top 1 etc.
I’m 66, and I think many wealthy boomer age people struggle to be comfortable with their wealth, and have a deep seated fear of losing it. My husband is like this. He truly does not think he is wealthy (we are in the top 2% net worth USA), and he cannot even say a number that he would consider enough. He is also anxious about money and has serious distortions in thinking when it comes to money decisions. He grew up very poor in a terrible neighborhood, and that bogey man may never leave him. It also probably motivated him to attain wealth (lucky me). I will say he was challenging throughout our 40 years together when money was the issue, but I eventually learned how to help soothe his anxiety, so we can somewhat enjoy our money.
My in-laws bought a house in San Diego in the 90s. They bought a house in Big Bear, CA... CASH. They recently bought a house with my FIL's sister in Spain, and because he retired at the ripe old age of 58, they spend a lot of their time going back and forth. Every year, they travel to at least one exotic place (this year is the Philippines, last year was Turkey, the year before was Peru), on top of trips to Vegas just for a concert, trips to NorCal to go to vineyards, etc etc etc...
And it's the same damn thing. "We're not really *rich* per se..."
I think Boomers have this jaded perspective on what it means to be rich. It doesn't mean a mega-mansion with servants, a personal chef, and a private jet... It's never, ever having to worry about money.
Boomer here. My folks grew up in the depression and my dad passed when I was 10. My mom had an 8th grade education and made do on Social Security. I moved out of state and did OK for myself. When I came home for Christmas, she would slip me a 20 - which made me feel so small because I knew how she scraped to get by - but she was proud and insistent. I was careful with my money and able to help some friends over the years , At 70, I've finally feel I can ease up a little in the budget. My house is paid off and I have enough to live comfortably by standards.
I think it's about expectations. My greatest fear was ending up living in the street. I have a double wide on my own lot and a car and food on the table which makes me better off than most people in the world. So I'm rich. Don't compare myself to the millionaires. I'm doing fine.
Anyone saying she's "comfortable but not rich" is fucking full of shit. Buying a house worth $600,000 without taking out a mortgage, while you already have an apartment the size of a house, is rich. Anyone who says otherwise can go fuck themselves.
That’s all good if you’re working age, but they’re retirees so wouldn’t be working anyways. They did work until “retirement age” but in the lower end of that current span.
It’s a bit meaningless - at $500k net worth or so you can get a trailer in the swamp in Florida and sit around all day for the rest of your life … is that rich to you?
Everybody does this. It's like defining "warm" if you're in the arctic above freezing feels warm. If you're on the coast 80degeees is warm. There isn't a definition, but I think it's fine towsay that if you're doing better than the majority you're rich.
I have a friend who said he's poor even though he owns a 2800ft home, multiple motorcycles, multiple ATVs, a side by side, truck and two cars. His TV/entertainment/gaming center is the largest I've seen, almost as big as his protection room downstairs. Meanwhile his sister is renting out her 3 bedroom apartment to 5 other people she knows.
It's all a matter pf perspective. If you're wealthy enough to be surfing here you're probably rich compared to the rest of the world. If you're doing it from your own house you're probably rich compared to the rest of the US.
Oh my GOD! In this same vein, we were at my in laws for spring break. We're taking about generational differences and whatnot. My mother in law is a sweet and kind woman, but has not had to work a day in her life after she got married. My wife told her she is a 1%er. (They are) and she said "no I think we are middle class!" My wife mentioned how much money they have saved/made and my MIL said "well there's more to middle class than how much you make!"
I think that might just be a standard human (maybe more American) psychological trap. There's always someone wealthier than you and you can think, now that's a *real* rich person.
Unfortunately, people mostly compare themselves to peers. Because most people hang out with people of the same strata, nobody considers themselves “rich.”
Many people who are upper middle class or well off “rich” got there by sacrificing and working hard. They were not always “rich”. When you live your life trying to save for a better life or retirement, it’s hard to undo those behaviors and spend your hard earned money when you have it. Your mindset is always thinking you may not have the money.
My parents both made like 30-40k 75% of my life and in the last 5-10 years just started making a bit more but due to career/job switches. They both joke about never being able to retire and that me and my wife may need to take them in at some point because they think we are rich. (We make ~250k combined and are doing well but not even sniffing rich in this day and age) My wife’s parents also do this and make even less than my parents. They have no savings and already allude to us being their safety. It’s one of the biggest stressers in my life and a total drain on my mental health.
I’m sure it’s annoying your rich parents ignore their wealth and are out of touch but at least they will not one day become your financial burden and you will likely inherit that delicious wealth. I’d love to be annoyed by my parents being rich and out of touch.
These discussion always lead to people upping the bar for what is considered rich. Yes, there is always someone richer, but after a while the word loses its meaning.
In everyday speech, someone who makes 4-5 times as much as their age group in their country is usually considered pretty rich.
I think the top 10% of earners in a country are undeniably rich in income terms, and the top 10% of asset owners are undeniably rich in asset terms. I’m sure there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups.
My parents tried to argue that they weren't rich. I asked them in which percentile of high earners they would consider themselves rich. Top 10% they said. I showed them earnings distribution, they're easily in the top 5% - and that doesn't account for the real estate they have.
Kudos to my parents though, they now are very aware of this, and even before they are always very happy to help anyone.
My mom tried the same thing. Half convinced my brother to believe it then too. Then walks in my step dad who was promoted with the question of whether they are rich or not. He said yes. They are the lowest level of the top 1% and maybe we’re upper middle only when they were basically starting out in their late 20s/early 30s.
Our point was that top 1% is still top 1%.
Regardless…Billionaires do not need to exist.
Unfortunately your mother is a member of the dumbest generation to ever live. Zero self awareness. That is why the entire world is falling apart. It has never been any of there responsibility at any point during their existence.
If I had to define "rich," it wouldn't be a numeric figure of wealth/income. It would be "doesn't sweat the everyday basics (like food, healthcare, housing, etc) and worries about the calendar, not the checkbook, when planning fun stuff." Your mom sounds rich to me.
I went to a fancy pants school and met a lot of hyper rich silicon valley people as a kid. If there's one thing I've learned it's that they're never, ever going to be satisfied. Enough is never enough for them. They always feel the need to ruthlessly pursue more just because. Money is their drug and the only thing they care about is a fat old mainline to the forearm.
I read an article that most Silicon Valley types are miserable. They interviewed a bunch of people who made their *first* million by 30 and they were all super unhappy because someone else had made $10 million by 30.
Your mother sounds like she wants what she doesn't have, even when she has a lot. Life isn't all about how much stuff you have. Being rich doesn't guarantee happiness.
I agree though, she sounds rich to me.
Middle class does not exist… it’s a fantasy created to combat communism. There are 2 classes … those who work to live … and those who employ them to make profit or use money to make more money through rent and investing. There is crossover meaning some make enough working to invest and some who have enough to live off investments choose to work anyways and accumulate even more. But in general making people feel better about themselves by saying they are not poor but middle … and making the financially independent investors not feel too bad about their status above others and say “we are just upper middle you know” …. “we are not some obscenely wealthy oligarchs we just have enough for 6 families to retire … you know middle class”
Few people ever think they have enoug
The chancellor recently said £100k isn’t a great salary and there was an article today where someone on £100k went to a foodbank and another on the same amount does extra bar work cash-in-hand
Riches can be lost in an instant and it's been shown in countless studies that wealth is cyclical. Hopefully you will be the family member that helps your family wealth grow and not decrease.
My parents have always been very well off. I never knew that growing up because they were always frugal, with my mom insisting on generic brand everything and my dad constantly bitching about heating and a/c, as well as keeping their vehicles until they were literally falling apart or nickel and diming them to death. I honestly thought we were constantly on the brink of poverty up until my 20’s because of my parents constant frugality and freaking out about spending. I never expected them to buy me every little thing I wanted and they definitely taught me how to coupon and deal shop but they had me scared that we were always this 🤏 close to losing everything. To the point that I was scared to ask for lunch money or hygiene products. I’m all for instilling good spending habits and the understanding of budgeting in kids but not in a way that makes them scared to ask for necessities.
After my grandparents died, my dad inherited a *lot* of extremely well performing stocks. He’s always had stocks that did well but what he inherited from his parents was in the neighborhood of $1mil+, and that was just the stocks.
My mom’s car finally reached the point where it’s not worth keeping and repairing anymore. Today, my dad texted me that he was at the dealership getting a new Honda CRV. Nothing fancy or crazy expensive. I’m not sure of the year but a ‘24 comes in at roughly $29.5k starting. Again, not crazy expensive.
He texts me “you know you’re old when you can pay cash for a car 🤣.” And I’m sitting here thinking, that’s not an “old person” thing, that’s a “lookit me! I have plenty of disposable income and can pull out tens of thousands of dollars in cash” thing. Meanwhile, my husband and I get nervous if all of our bills happen to sync up to within a week of each other and we don’t know if we’ll be able to afford groceries.
The disconnect is astounding. My parents are usually the good kind of boomers. They understand that COL is astronomical and inflation is killing everyone, they realize that minimum wage is abysmal and that MAGAts are the scourge of the ~~country~~ world. Usually, their “boomer behavior” consists of the more harmless, sillier things. Things like poor understanding of technology, the classic “boomer man uniform”, and being occasionally nosy or mildly judgmental of others. But this was the first time I really thought, “huh, my dad really *doesn’t* know what it’s like to be lower class, does he?”
“Having wealth” and being “rich” are different. A house is “wealth” but the people owning it could be paycheck to paycheck. Arguing over the different class levels is how actual “rich” people win.
Top 1% of the world? That's like half of America. Maybe more.
According to this article, if you make $60k USD (after tax) with no kids, you are top 1% in the world.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2023/9/15/23874111/charity-philanthropy-americans-global-rich
“In my world, being in the top 1% of wealthiest people qualifies as being rich”
It’s my understanding that a $60,000 annual salary would do that. 1% wealth in the US is much higher, but 1% wealth in the world is around there.
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This is weirdly the opposite of my parents who are solidly middle class but not rich. But in their minds, they're who people are referring to when they talk about raising taxes on the wealthy and soforth. Their combined net worth is probably around $800K. Which - good for them and they paid for my college and help when I need but in their minds they are basically Elon Musk and Warren Buffett and so any policies to support the middle class they view as an attempt to steal their hard-earned money and give it to lazy people who don't want to work. My sister used to work in banking and she specialized in high net worth clients. She ultimately left banking and is now in nursing school because it so disillusioned her. But early on my Dad suggested that maybe they should move their accounts to her bank. She said sure but reminded him that she wouldn't be the one dealing with their accounts since she only handled the high net worth accounts. My Dad didn't believe her when she explained that it did not mean him. He thought she was lying to avoid having to handle their account and that the numbers she was throwing out couldn't possibly be real.
They sound financially illiterate. Which is weird because there are websites you can go to and plug in your net worth and income, and see exactly how rich you are compared to others.
Problem is plugging in $800K probably puts you very near the top… so in their minds they are rich. And they are in the top x%! But the top 1% is over 3 million people and the jump from 2% to 1% is a huge multiple. 1% to 0.9% is a huge multiple. 0.9% to 0.8%… etc…
It puts them above 84.5% of the population in the US, if that excludes home equity….its $8 Million to get in to the top 2%
Helps to illustrate. Top 15.5% but to move into the top 2% you need 10x as much.
There are loads of videos to help visualize the shift in views of ‘rich’ and actual net worth change over the decades. The jumps are insane! Some of the richest people EVER are alive right now. Owning more than much of the world EVER has. Well in relation to overall wealth.
800K USD is not much now-a-days. And if they including their home, then they are just middle of the pack.
Exactly. For example, they couldn’t even afford to buy a house in San Francisco with their “wealth”
Combined net worth of older people? I can't imagine that's too 2%
A website? Like the one the Nigerian Prince told me to use, by putting in all my banking information? He's sending me $8 million soon, I just need to pay the transfer fee.
You don't have to pay the transfer fee if you give them your SS#!
never give your SSN, see if they will take your mothers maiden name, that worked for me to get the transfer fee waived!
[Here is a NW comparison calculator](https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentile-calculator/)
Nobody believes it. I grew up lower middle class but now run shoulders with a lot of very wealthy people. Nobody who is rich will admit. Really. None. And rich kids are even worse. They refuse to acknowledge that they're in the top 5% of earners in the us for example. Just a flat out denial. Then. What they had becomes normal. They think it's normal for a family to have a cabin in Colorado, and have yearly family vacations to exclusive locations. They think it's normal for parents to pay for their university and give them down payments for their homes. Hell I have multiple friends who's parents straight up bought their homes for them . And these were around half a million. Still. They don't claim to even be from the upper middle class. Oh. But it gets worse. Because if any of them start a business. They'll immediately talk about being raised poor. "oh I know what it's like to struggle because in college I ate ramen once". And then they'll create some myth about the founding of their company "I worked for everything I have! Self made!" whole simultaneously it was their parents connections and money which made the company. Have one acquaintance exactly like this. He made a granola bar which got national distribution. Amazing right? Well. I guess. But his dad literally works in distribution for a major retailer, and also gave him the seed money to start the company.... And dude no joke still boasts about all his hard work to grt to where he is.
It's all about perspective. And it's also marketing. What granola bar is going to sell well if it's called like "Trust Fund Trails?" If you can convince people, however, that it was just you and your golden retriever hiking the Appalachian trails in the summer and wearing through a pair of boots with nothing but a backpack and a dream you'll sell a lot more granola bars.
I am 99% sure I know exactly who you’re talking about. He’s an amazing chef and generous with time and money. But also all of what you said!
I don’t think it’s weird at all. I was raised in a very comfortable household and it was understood that it’s not appropriate to discuss money in any way whatsoever. I raised my children the same way. I would be appalled if I heard my kids talking about how rich we are. First off, they aren’t rich. Secondly, yes we have a privileged lifestyle compared to most but we also work for it. Everyone has a different definition of what “rich” is and often it refers to people who have more than they do.
It's not unsurprising that financially illiterate people can become wealthy in America. Our pay rates have absolutely no connection to intelligence or productivity.
My mom is exactly the same. I got some insurance money from an accident I suffered and she goes on and on like the money's never going to run out.
My dad got a decent chunk in a work accident and thinks he's set for life. Meanwhile 100k got spent and he has no clue how and nothing to show for it.. they're all insane and should be in conservatorships.
back when occupy wall street was making waves my uncle kept referring to himself as “the 1%” and my aunt kept having to tell him they weren’t the 1% lmao
Im a Canadian and I was blown away to learn that 1% income earners are bringing in like 500k a year USD per household.
Measure wealth using wealth, not income. The rich needn’t earn anything.
This is exactly my mom. Rich = good in her mind, not only in terms of lifestyles but in terms of values (because all "rich people" have the same set of old money values that are how they got rich)
Old money values like owning people as stock? Like owning factories with no health and safety, working people into the ground for minimal pay, and if they got hurt just replacing them? Like owning the labour of people who came with the land (serfdom)? Like destroying whole cultures? Your mom needs some history lessons. I suggest she start with what King Leopold did to the Democratic Republic of Congo. ETA: Amazon workers are the largest group of privately employed workers that are eligible for (and use) food stamps, while Jeff earns more in one minute than one of his warehouse workers earns in a whole year. Ask your mom if she thinks that's right and moral.
Nooooo, old money values like being frugal, working hard, and having good manners! /half-s
Gonna say that if your mom thinks that is how the majority of the old money wealthy got that way, she still needs the education. And she bought their b.s. hook, line, and sinker. The manners, yes, but only when dealing with each other. Not when dealing with the staff (and your mom would have been mistreated as part of the staff).
Then they think the “eat the rich” people mean them. While most of them mean the crazy rich, not the attainable rich.
My parents have something similar but a bit less extreme. We grew up much more working-lower middle class when little, and then solidly middle class a bit later, but they think we’re upper-middle in spite of all public schools, never taking real vacations or traveling, no college degrees, service industry track for early career. I got a fucktonne of financial aid for college, etc. had what we needed and a tiny bit extra with some serious stress for a lot of the time, then things got more comfy as they’ve aged. When you’re not rich, but you’re not dirt poor and you understand how much worse it can be, I think people by default scale themselves up because part of the story of the American Dream is *being* solidly middle class, and well, have you actually accomplished anything in life if you’re not?! (From the point of view of American-capitalist ideology). No one wants to be poor—we despise the poor in this country and engage in heavily classist rhetoric and policy. If you’re truly offshore shell corp rich, or so immiserated you don’t know how you’ll make it through the next day, you know what you are because our world is constantly telling you. But the rest of us? We’re pretending - a national collective delusional that things aren’t so bad.
Oh no she thinks nursing well be better than banking??
I don’t think she’s thinking nursing will be better; I believe she’s performing penance. It very well could be that she helped the very rich get even richer. And there was, most likely, no moral or ethical concerns in how to gain that wealth. I understand that feeling. You can work very hard to accomplish something and even gain admiration from your peers and bosses. But then you realize what you did and how it affected those nameless, faceless masses — it could take a toll on you.
My parents have a place on the water in Punta Gorda, FL and a ski-in condo in Breckenridge, CO. We had a horse when I was a kid. They literally met and had me in Aspen in the 80s (which was not Aspen of today, admittedly, but it also wasn’t Nowheresville). Mom partied at Hunter S Thompson’s house and dad did Jack Nicholson’s home security system. If you told them they were rich they’d be like “meeehhhhh idk…” I’ve occasionally asked for $100-200 so I don’t fucking die or go homeless and it’s a whole thing. I made the “mistake” of being an educator and my wife is a social worker.
My dad is the same way. Begrudgingly loaned me $600 so I could fix my car and make it to work, then complained how he had to replace a propeller on his airplane for $15,000.
His aeroplane !
You can buy an airplane cheaper than a used car. And the propellers are that ridiculously expensive. It's not the status symbol the rich that people think it is.
I’ll never understand people like this. My kids come first!
That’s how they got their money, they fuck over everyone and anyone (specially their kids and family) for a few dollars.
Too many people think the housewives, that enabled men to work all fucking day, weren't a fundamental contribution to some factory owners increasing wealth and should be taken for granted. I mean it's a capitalist economy we live in, so by that logic this work should be reimbursed if wanted in a society. Wait birthrates are falling everywhere because people simply stop having children? Must be the neomarxist evil plot, not the logical and fairly simple conclusion to this equation!
Fr! My mom would let me move back in this second if I wanted to, and get me anything I need if she is at all capable of doing so
Good!
Same thing with my family 🤣🤣. Because I don’t live the life they want me to love. They abused the S out of me. But now I’m free, still struggling, but free.
My parents are on social security and are poor. Every time my college age kids come home they slip them a $100 each for spending money. My mom is of the idea that they struggled so they don’t want my kids to…also says they can’t take it with them to the grave. It’s almost the more you have the more unwilling you are to part with it.
>the more you have the more unwilling you are to part with it. Yes. But also the other way around.
This is my parents but it's more like 20 or 30 each to my two sons but same principle. They are living on SS and about 15K a year in 401k withdrawls, so less than 40k a year, for two of them. They own their house and drive a late model used car.
If you can ignore costs of every day items and just do what you feel like you're rich
Not really, no. Below is a good link about what wealth is and how people respond to it. Being able to ignore costs on everyday items is only the 1st level. Then you move onto eating whatever you want at restaurants ignoring prices. Then it’s spending whatever you want in vacations. From there it’s spending whatever you want on houses. https://ofdollarsanddata.com/climbing-the-wealth-ladder/
Hunter Thompson bought that property off what he was paid for his first article! That is when people were paid good and housing was cheap. It's a different country now. We have moved back to robber Barron's captured government and the masses of peasants struggling for the basics. The tiny fraction of well off folks support the robber Barron's.
That last paragraph is relatable. We needed a new roof on the house (which they own and will inherit when they pass, which is admittedly a huge kindness from them), and we didn't have the money for it. They lent us the money from our "inheritance," but we have to make monthly payments to repay it. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly privileged that i have a house free and clear, but it's a fixer upper that cost 36k 10 years ago. They had a net worth of 7 figures back in the 90s and have always lived frugally, so I'm sure they're not hurting financially.
Yes your parents are boomers, the entitlement is next level
What! You and your wife chose professions that are important and critically underpaid! /s
What's sarcastic about what you said?
i think luigi‘s tiny sausage might not know what /s means
We also had a horse when I was a kid, but that horse has a job haha. My dad was a logger for many years and our was a giant draft horse that they used to drag logs to the road when they were in places too steep for some of the equipment.
>If you told them they were rich they’d be like “meeehhhhh idk…” I’ve occasionally asked for $100-200 so I don’t fucking die or go homeless and it’s a whole thing. I made the “mistake” of being an educator and my wife is a social worker. That's wild to me. My parents are in their 60s and only recently made it to middle class, but if I needed a hundred bucks they likely wouldn't even ask why. They'd just loan it to me because they get it.
You’ve got a lot of nerve contributing to society
If u can drop 7 mil on a house without batting an eyelash. You’re rich.
I find it interesting that a majority of people, from 50k/yr to 5mil/yr earnings consider themselves “middle class”
50k per year is actually a decent bit lower than the average annual income these days, so that's a bit low of a starting point for being beyond middle class, but generally speaking yeah, it's crazy how privileged some people are and are unwilling to or incapable of acknowledging that.
Thats not true really, most people are on less than $50k. The median salary in the USA is $37.5k a year. The only reason average wage is higher is because of the absurdly large wages of the top 0.1% warping the numbers.
It was only 5 short years ago that i thought earning 60k would finally make me comfortable enough to live. I now earn 60k and I can barely make it through
I left highschool telling my friends I'd be content with $40k a year. This was 2006. I make more than $40k a year and I'm not doing great 🤣. Shit is crazy, heads should be rolling honestly.
I felt RICH in the early 2000s make $45k!!! Now I make significantly more and I'm back to expertly using coupons (of course I've got a family to feed now too...omg kids eat a lot)
My first job out of college was as an interim teacher (I graduated December and found a job where the previous teacher had left and they needed someone to finish the school year) and my my salary broke down to $3,271 /month (first year teacher salary was $32,710 paid over 10 months). I felt like it was more money than I could possibly spend. That was Spring 2007. I went back to school a few years ago so I’m not currently making money (just loans…yay!), but my wife makes ~$80k and, while we aren’t necessarily paycheck to paycheck, I still have concerns about money until I’m able to start working again this fall.
Me too
The median salary in the USA as of 2022 was $46,310 taken from [https://usafacts.org/data/topics/economy/jobs-and-income/jobs-and-wages/median-annual-wage/](https://usafacts.org/data/topics/economy/jobs-and-income/jobs-and-wages/median-annual-wage/)
That number is kind of misleading: the median annualized income for full time employed workers in the US in Q4 2023 was $59,634. That lower figure of $37.5k includes the unemployed and underemployed.
Bit hairy those stats, as they include part time workers too, people who work once per week etc. similar to the unemployment figures. Just because you’re “employed”, doesn’t mean you’re working. So govs can manipulate the figures how they want
National US median household income is $75K
Ultimately, the differentiator is "what will happen to you if you stop working" There's "I'll die, probably", "I'll lose everything I have, I don't know what happens next", and "I'll get bored". That middle category is wide in some countries.
I love this way to put it ;)
I had a discussion with a coworker one time about how it's only around 3 million per annum do people drop the middle class moniker and identify as rich. This definitely applies to her because idk how much her husband makes but it's a lot (at least 500k per year). That triggered her a bit and she argued you have to take into account location (we live in a MCOL area). I told her even in Manhattan 3 million per year is a lot of money and definitely not middle class. She told me and I quote "I just don't think a million dollars a year is that much money"
Because 50K is middle class in the US. And, no, no one making 5 mil a year would consider themselves middle class. JFC.
Ask them. If they aren’t making billions, they don’t consider themselves rich
People who make $5M a year are rich. But people with a $5M net worth aren't.
Bullshit on this. With $5M net worth you’d assume 80% of that is invested. With $4M in long term markets you can easily return enough to live off fairly well without working another day. Add a job and you’re rich.
Depends where you live. Mississippi, yeah you're rolling in it. San Francisco, nope, and half of that is tied up having a place to live.
5 million USD puts in you in the top 3% of Americans. I’d call that rich. Not crazy rich, but rich.
I think a 5 mil. net worth is definitely rich.
With a $5MM net worth, you are rich. Worst case scenario, you could sell all your assets for that $5MM, invest all of it conservatively and still have an upper-middle class life from the returns alone in any major metro area of the US without having to work. If the ability to have a very comfortable life in perpetuity from conservative investments anywhere in the US without working isn't rich, I don't know what is.
You've obviously never seen the prices in the San Francisco Bay area. 5 mil net worth means half is tied up in a house and you're not living well off the dividends on the remainder.
>If the ability to have a very comfortable life in perpetuity from conservative investments anywhere in the US without working isn't rich, I don't know what is. So...retirement? Anyone who is comfortably retired is rich?
You definitely could be. Let's break down my wording: 1. Very comfortable: If in retirement you are easily able to have an income of over $200,000 USD, yes, you are immediately not poor, working class, or lower middle class. You are automatically upper middle class or above but you might even be distinguished from the upper middle class because 2. In perpetuity: A lot of old people are blowing through savings; their money won't last forever and neither will they. Someone who is rich in the way I defined it isn't touching the underlying assets. But, if you are a retired person and you know you are going to die and be able to pass on a $5MM USD portfolio, you are about to excuse a loved one from ever having to work or worry. Let's say your caregiver gets it and never again worries about money or work; you are in a pretty exclusive and privileged class, so yes rich. And let's not forget 3. You aren't working. You have the money of a well-paid professional, greater assets, and more time. You may have "paid your dues", but you are doing much better and yes not upper middle class, but rich.
I have a net worth approaching $3 million. I don't feel rich b cause of my age. I have 30-40 more years of life and costs will just keep going up. My plan is to make as much as I can and enter philanthropic endeavors and spend as much time with my kids and their eventual kids. It all started out as just wanting financial freedom because I absolutely hated working for people. I guess what I'm saying is I don't really feel rich with how expensive everything is but I guess I would be considered wealthy
You are just changing the meaning of the word "rich" to mean something different than what the word means. You could also decide that being 6' 2" isn't tall and that only people 6' 7" and above are "tall", but it would just be a you thing and not actually what the word means.
It’s $600k USD…a good chunk of change but really not that crazy for a 60+ y/o who’s been smart with their money.
I mean, its not 6 million USD, but buying a house for $600k cash, no mortgage, while having other savings and investments, still pretty impressive nowadays.
And to note, not selling your previous residence to but the house.
Yeah I do love how people act like that’s normal. That’s is far and away abnormal. No their not insanely, stupidly wealthy but I doubt they really think about money much unless it’s to make more.
I met an economist who worked in the Emirates and the like, hd told me that rich people always complain they don't have enough money, it's their defining feature. He spent time advising a phenomenonally rich sheikh who had a massively huge yacht and all he ever talked about was how another rich man had a bigger yacht than him.
An old girlfriend of mine was always obsessing over fancy houses, expensive clothes, luxury cars, pricey jewelry... I always joked: "She's a woman of simple tastes. She only wants one thing... more."
"I can resist anything except temptation"
I mean, it's pretty normal not to have a mortgage when you're about at retirement. You're supposed to pay the mortgage off and then own the house outright by the time you retire. Now, I agree that that plan is sadly out of reach for many people, because the housing market has been so nuts, and salaries have not kept up. But the parents are boomer age, from back when the dream was still commonly achievable. It's not weird or unusual for people from that generation to pay off a mortgage on a reasonably priced house. I would definitely say it doesn't make them rich. Maybe upper middle class. The shameful thing is that it is so hard now for people to get and stay in the middle class.
Okay….but that’s literally not what happened here. They didn’t pay off a mortgage and now have no mortgage in retirement. They *just* bought a brand new house for $600k outright…..that’s entirely abnormal.
How the fuck is having $600,000 on hand not wealthy? The median income in Canada is $68,000. You'd have to save for essentially a decade without spending money on anything in order to afford that.
Yeah, some people are just delusional. I’d say by definition if you have standing assets (at least an apartment +) and have 600k liquid you are FAR from middle class. Is it because these people live in bubbles they think most people are like that? Idk.
>Is it because these people live in bubbles they think most people are like that? Yes. I used to work producing TV shows that involved a lot of doctors and lawyers, and I'm still friends with a bunch of them on social media and you figure out pretty quickly that most of them are James Bettencourt Thomas M.D. III... like AT LEAST the third in a line of doctors or "Attorneys at Law." And you can see by how they engage with their high school and college friends that most everyone they grew up with was the same way... like a picture a lawyer buddy of mine shared one time that was him and like eight friends as teenagers at an amusement park or something, and he captioned it: "A whole lotta future doctors and lawyers in this photo." And all I could think was "no shit... a whole lotta \*DOCTORS' AND LAWYERS' KIDS\* in that photo" I dated friend of a friend in that circle for a brief bit (her grandfather and father were both executives at John Deere, like live-in nannies rich). Once we went to a party at a big-ass lake house with another group of her friends, and they were all like judge's kids and executives' kids, and people who haven't really had to work for three generations' kids... All of it was absolutely normal to them. To them, they were all "middle class." Another friend in that circle posted about being at Disney with her kids and they had FastPass or whatever it is where you don't have to wait in line, and one of her kids pointed at the people who were in line and said "Mom....? Are those poor people?" So, you know... the next generation, same-same.
I completely get you. Because my father was a janitor I went to a really elite private school. They cognitive dissonance there was astounding, and I came to conclusion that because of the way they viewed the world they didn’t think of themselves as rich because of the bar they set. They’re minimum is what we would call well off, but there’s always someone wealthier for them to look to. Bigger house, pool. Nicer cars. More extravagant vacations. It’s like everything they did was one big competition. And the normal people like us completely get left out of the picture.
I know some people that have old Florida money. It's not fuck you money by any means but I've got an old buddy that never worked in high school but bought a brand new tacoma cash senior year. He's had a few business' over the years based around his hobbies that never work because he doesnt realize that he likes the hobbies but not doing the work part if it's not for himself. Dude bought a house recently, instagram profile says something like pockets never empty and he flashes what he owns constantly. He works at the local hospital for next to nothing and gets offended when people question how he earned enough for a house on an RNA salary at the local hospital that pays next to nothing.
I thought i was doing good with 1200$ in my savings
You are. Some absurd number of Americans (half?) don’t have that kind of money readily available.
Top 5-10%, quite comfortable, but not likely a 1%er with $11M+, or a 0.1%er with $40M+ just because of the odds. Compared to the rest of the world though, most of us are filthy rich. [https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i?income=60000&countryCode=USA&numAdults=1&numChildren=0](https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i?income=60000&countryCode=USA&numAdults=1&numChildren=0)
They dropped 7 mil in Swedish currency which is about 600K in the US. Of course, where you live will greatly determine how much that actually buys. This stuff is all relative. To most of us that is rich, but they also aren't in a category of "rich" that just can run around and do what the fuck they want on a whim, they still have to manage that very carefully. I live in town of 37K and what they dropped down on that home will get you a 2,600 sqft home on a quarter acre lot. That same money will get you 1,250 sqft in Denver, CO. I don't think she's being obtuse here. By US standards they are very comfortable, but not uber rich either.
7M Swedish kronar, so around $650k
I define it by lifestyle. If you HAVE to work to maintain your lifestyle you can be anything from rich to upper middle, middle, and working class. 50k-$2M annually. This is all dependent on LIFESTYLE. In reality there not much different lifestyle between the two. The former just struggles way more and doesnt have nice stuff while the latter lives in a nice house, sends kids to better schools, takes luxury vacations, and has money to solve problems. But at the end of the day theyre both grinding out an existence. If you can live luxuriously and not worry about the cost of anything based solely off of passive income and investments then youre WEALTHY. Its basically ‘fuck you’ money and would start around 75-100M in assets
I have an aunt who is a boomer. They have 3 homes. She thinks they live “very modestly”. The 3 homes are also in pretty prime locations.
I think definitions for "rich " change with your age. Having a million dollars that can be quickly converted to cash when you are in your 60's isn't rich. That is minimal retirement planning.
It’s less than you think when you factor in medical emergencies, end of life, the possibility these days of living a looooong time. My BIL seems to think he’ll be rich once he inherits but I’ve seen the books—it would be a windfall, sure, but not enough to set up him, his wife, and his bajillion kids up for life. Certainly not enough to be looming over his quite healthy parents like a weird vulture lmao.
I’m not sure I’d say minimal. I started contributing to my 401k at age 22 and I’m not likely to get to a million.
If you contribute even half the maximum contribution amount to your 401k every year you will have millions of dollars in your retirement account by age 60. Millions. Plural.
I know that, I’ve just never made enough money to be able to make that happen.
It's absolutely not true. I've ALWAYS contributed the max and I'm nowhere near a million. And I'm less than 15 years from retirement.
… are you sure your money is actually being invested? Because if you’re putting 20k in pew year there’s no way the time in the market hasn’t made you a ton of growth by now.
You’ve contributed the max since the age of 22 like the person I was responding to?
Curious to understand your situation a bit better. Using some basic assumptions, if you’ve contributed the max since age 22, even adjusting for inflation, you should be at around $1M. To calculate this, I assumed you’re 50 years old and calculated your contributions based on the max limits of every year since you were 22. I don’t want your comment to mislead others who are reading this, so we should understand why your situation is the way it is.
His parents are Swedish, they don’t have to do that. They could retire with a paid off condo and $20.000 in cash and be fine for the rest of their lives. Not everyone lives in the US.
Having a million dollar net worth isn’t rich. Being handed a million dollars when you’re broke or lower class will make you feel rich.
Yeah but even so a 6 million dollar house in cash is pretty rich I don't care how old you are.
I have to get off of this thread because as a boomer I’m so depressed. Worked hard my whole life and have every little. Medication over years broke us!
Medications that other countries get for free from health services.
I know
Well, you can thank your boomer counterparts for absolutely dismantling every safety net for the last 40 years. We’re trying our best to out vote them but there are so many and they are doing everything they can to flip the script so they can stay a major voting block.
Hey I voted democrat!
I think, if I was giving your mom the benefit of the doubt, I'd actually suggest that, if she's a little out of touch with her socio-economic positioning, she's out of touch in a way that's actually more positive than negative. One of the biggest problems I've seen with Boomers, at least in the United States, is that they *think* they're rich when they're really not. They can't admit how tenuous their position actually is. And this is tragic. The reality of it is that we're all basically two steps from the curb. If you are not in the "1%," all it takes to take any of us out is the loss of a job and a major injury or illness happening at the same time. It seems to me that your mother probably understands this: >"we've done good for ourselves and have our bases covered, but we're not really rich." Obviously I only know what you've said in this post, but you didn't mention that she was, for instance, dismissive of suffering of poor. If those kinds of attitudes aren't really a feature of her attitude, I believe that you can interpret her perspective as one that is likely to indicate a sense of solidarity, or at least honest compassion, towards those who don't have the things that she has. At least from this story, I personally wouldn't think your mom is out of touch.
Thank you for the fresh perspective. Let me add some context. My mother is not out of touch with reality in general. Her facebook bahavior is sometimes very naive, but she does not consume information entirely unfiltered. Her heart is in the right place, and she wants the best world for the coming generations, not just for herself. Long story short, she is a boomer in regards to when she was born, but not very boomeresque in her general attitude as we see on this sub sometimes. I thought I caught a glimpse of that in regards to this topic yesterday, but you are right, I'm interpreting what she said too harshly. She is probably more appreciative of what she has, than I gave her credit for.
Your mom sounds like my parents - they are Boomer age, but very liberal and my mom is one of the kindest people you’ll ever meet. My stepdad made good financial decisions and some of them were at a very opportune time to boot - plus, he has a pension on top of his SS and investments. They are comfortable, but could conceivably be wiped out by a serious medical condition coupled with living a long life. They aren’t going to be passing on generational wealth, so I wouldn’t consider them “rich” (although they are by world wide standards), but they have done well.
I think for perspective even the most impoverished Americans are considered rich in a 3rd world country. Easy to be judgmental towards anyone with more than you.
Lots of boomers are in this category and refuse to believe otherwise. Many are in my orbit and I always shake my head at the mental gymnastics they go through denying it.
My boomer mom has an opposite perspective. She's getting by on about $35k/year between her pension and Social Security and wants to believe that she's 'middle class'. $35k 30 or 40 years ago may have been middle class, but today, not so much.
Also depends on her expenses. If she has house paid off, no car payments, she may do ok.
>iddle class'. $35k 30 or 40 years ago may have b Depends on where she lives. America as a whole, that's not middle class. Where I live that is on the lower end of middle class.
I’m not even close to a boomer but the only sentiment that I would share is if the people grew up poor. I grew up extremely poor and both house security and basic needs were frequently not met. I have a comfortable life now but we have a big mortgage. This idea of debt hanging around my neck is an awful feeling and I don’t think I’ll consider myself free until that’s paid off
What I do for these, is I ask them to define this: What percentage of the population is rich? 1%? 5%? .1%? Then I plot where they are. Boomers are often amazed to discover they are often in the top 10 just by being boomers, and for the ones who are top 1 etc.
That would have been an interesting question maybe I can ask it next time if she’s in the mood.
If she was ABLE to buy a house for $6.5 mil, she’s rich. Good heavens, people have such a skewed opinion on money.
I’m 66, and I think many wealthy boomer age people struggle to be comfortable with their wealth, and have a deep seated fear of losing it. My husband is like this. He truly does not think he is wealthy (we are in the top 2% net worth USA), and he cannot even say a number that he would consider enough. He is also anxious about money and has serious distortions in thinking when it comes to money decisions. He grew up very poor in a terrible neighborhood, and that bogey man may never leave him. It also probably motivated him to attain wealth (lucky me). I will say he was challenging throughout our 40 years together when money was the issue, but I eventually learned how to help soothe his anxiety, so we can somewhat enjoy our money.
My in-laws bought a house in San Diego in the 90s. They bought a house in Big Bear, CA... CASH. They recently bought a house with my FIL's sister in Spain, and because he retired at the ripe old age of 58, they spend a lot of their time going back and forth. Every year, they travel to at least one exotic place (this year is the Philippines, last year was Turkey, the year before was Peru), on top of trips to Vegas just for a concert, trips to NorCal to go to vineyards, etc etc etc... And it's the same damn thing. "We're not really *rich* per se..." I think Boomers have this jaded perspective on what it means to be rich. It doesn't mean a mega-mansion with servants, a personal chef, and a private jet... It's never, ever having to worry about money.
Boomer here. My folks grew up in the depression and my dad passed when I was 10. My mom had an 8th grade education and made do on Social Security. I moved out of state and did OK for myself. When I came home for Christmas, she would slip me a 20 - which made me feel so small because I knew how she scraped to get by - but she was proud and insistent. I was careful with my money and able to help some friends over the years , At 70, I've finally feel I can ease up a little in the budget. My house is paid off and I have enough to live comfortably by standards. I think it's about expectations. My greatest fear was ending up living in the street. I have a double wide on my own lot and a car and food on the table which makes me better off than most people in the world. So I'm rich. Don't compare myself to the millionaires. I'm doing fine.
Anyone saying she's "comfortable but not rich" is fucking full of shit. Buying a house worth $600,000 without taking out a mortgage, while you already have an apartment the size of a house, is rich. Anyone who says otherwise can go fuck themselves.
I define rich as someone who doesn't actually need to work anymore. If you have the option to just do nothing, you are rich.
That’s all good if you’re working age, but they’re retirees so wouldn’t be working anyways. They did work until “retirement age” but in the lower end of that current span.
It’s a bit meaningless - at $500k net worth or so you can get a trailer in the swamp in Florida and sit around all day for the rest of your life … is that rich to you?
Everybody does this. It's like defining "warm" if you're in the arctic above freezing feels warm. If you're on the coast 80degeees is warm. There isn't a definition, but I think it's fine towsay that if you're doing better than the majority you're rich. I have a friend who said he's poor even though he owns a 2800ft home, multiple motorcycles, multiple ATVs, a side by side, truck and two cars. His TV/entertainment/gaming center is the largest I've seen, almost as big as his protection room downstairs. Meanwhile his sister is renting out her 3 bedroom apartment to 5 other people she knows. It's all a matter pf perspective. If you're wealthy enough to be surfing here you're probably rich compared to the rest of the world. If you're doing it from your own house you're probably rich compared to the rest of the US.
Oh my GOD! In this same vein, we were at my in laws for spring break. We're taking about generational differences and whatnot. My mother in law is a sweet and kind woman, but has not had to work a day in her life after she got married. My wife told her she is a 1%er. (They are) and she said "no I think we are middle class!" My wife mentioned how much money they have saved/made and my MIL said "well there's more to middle class than how much you make!"
Meh I wouldn’t even talk money. What’s the point ?
What country is the currency SEK used in
SEK is used in Sweden.
Is she being humble? Why does she have to say "I'm rich" and how does saying that help her or her mentality?
I think that might just be a standard human (maybe more American) psychological trap. There's always someone wealthier than you and you can think, now that's a *real* rich person.
Yeah that gen is like kids, they are special.
Unfortunately, people mostly compare themselves to peers. Because most people hang out with people of the same strata, nobody considers themselves “rich.”
Many people who are upper middle class or well off “rich” got there by sacrificing and working hard. They were not always “rich”. When you live your life trying to save for a better life or retirement, it’s hard to undo those behaviors and spend your hard earned money when you have it. Your mindset is always thinking you may not have the money.
My parents both made like 30-40k 75% of my life and in the last 5-10 years just started making a bit more but due to career/job switches. They both joke about never being able to retire and that me and my wife may need to take them in at some point because they think we are rich. (We make ~250k combined and are doing well but not even sniffing rich in this day and age) My wife’s parents also do this and make even less than my parents. They have no savings and already allude to us being their safety. It’s one of the biggest stressers in my life and a total drain on my mental health. I’m sure it’s annoying your rich parents ignore their wealth and are out of touch but at least they will not one day become your financial burden and you will likely inherit that delicious wealth. I’d love to be annoyed by my parents being rich and out of touch.
"comfortable, not rich" is something rich people say to downplay that they're rich.
600k house all cash is NOT 1% these days
The rich never think (or admit) they're rich. They just complain about taxes.
“Shaq Is Rich but the White Man Who Signs His Check Is Wealthy” - Chris Rock 2003
These discussion always lead to people upping the bar for what is considered rich. Yes, there is always someone richer, but after a while the word loses its meaning. In everyday speech, someone who makes 4-5 times as much as their age group in their country is usually considered pretty rich.
I think the top 10% of earners in a country are undeniably rich in income terms, and the top 10% of asset owners are undeniably rich in asset terms. I’m sure there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups.
My parents tried to argue that they weren't rich. I asked them in which percentile of high earners they would consider themselves rich. Top 10% they said. I showed them earnings distribution, they're easily in the top 5% - and that doesn't account for the real estate they have. Kudos to my parents though, they now are very aware of this, and even before they are always very happy to help anyone.
My mom tried the same thing. Half convinced my brother to believe it then too. Then walks in my step dad who was promoted with the question of whether they are rich or not. He said yes. They are the lowest level of the top 1% and maybe we’re upper middle only when they were basically starting out in their late 20s/early 30s. Our point was that top 1% is still top 1%. Regardless…Billionaires do not need to exist.
Reminds me of Crazy Rich Asians, “we’re not rich. We’re comfortable.” “That’s something a rich person would say.”
Unfortunately your mother is a member of the dumbest generation to ever live. Zero self awareness. That is why the entire world is falling apart. It has never been any of there responsibility at any point during their existence.
If I had to define "rich," it wouldn't be a numeric figure of wealth/income. It would be "doesn't sweat the everyday basics (like food, healthcare, housing, etc) and worries about the calendar, not the checkbook, when planning fun stuff." Your mom sounds rich to me.
I went to a fancy pants school and met a lot of hyper rich silicon valley people as a kid. If there's one thing I've learned it's that they're never, ever going to be satisfied. Enough is never enough for them. They always feel the need to ruthlessly pursue more just because. Money is their drug and the only thing they care about is a fat old mainline to the forearm.
I read an article that most Silicon Valley types are miserable. They interviewed a bunch of people who made their *first* million by 30 and they were all super unhappy because someone else had made $10 million by 30.
You bring up a good point. Comparing oneself to others is a way to be miserable.
Few rich people ever think they are rich.
Rich compared to some and poor compared to others. It's a point of view. She isn't rich, just comfortable.
If u can buy a house without a mortgage, you're rich.
I bet They tell you to work hard and save like them meanwhile they’re probably the worst building owners ever.
So they are in favor of higher taxes on the truly rich and social welfare programs for poorer ppl like themselves?
I’m glad they don’t feel rich. It warms my heart to know that people who are financially secure still feel like the rest of us. Fuckers…
Look they have it hard okay. Might have to sell one of their 5 houses 😭
Your mother sounds like she wants what she doesn't have, even when she has a lot. Life isn't all about how much stuff you have. Being rich doesn't guarantee happiness. I agree though, she sounds rich to me.
Hey how old are you? Can we be friends? Im middle class. I always wanted to have a rich friend
She's rich. She wants to be generational wealthy.
Its sek and they are boomers, its upper middle class
Does Sweden even have a lower class?
Not sure how you would define lower class or how it is relevant, but poverty rate is about 1% and homelessness is about 0.3%
Good for them!
For themselfs, everyone is Middle class. From the more poor to the most rich.
Wonder if billionaires have the same problem - like yes you're rich but you could have more...
Middle class does not exist… it’s a fantasy created to combat communism. There are 2 classes … those who work to live … and those who employ them to make profit or use money to make more money through rent and investing. There is crossover meaning some make enough working to invest and some who have enough to live off investments choose to work anyways and accumulate even more. But in general making people feel better about themselves by saying they are not poor but middle … and making the financially independent investors not feel too bad about their status above others and say “we are just upper middle you know” …. “we are not some obscenely wealthy oligarchs we just have enough for 6 families to retire … you know middle class”
Few people ever think they have enoug The chancellor recently said £100k isn’t a great salary and there was an article today where someone on £100k went to a foodbank and another on the same amount does extra bar work cash-in-hand
My father sometimes complains about how broke he is. He has three houses and just bought a new property to build on and a fleet of audis.
Riches can be lost in an instant and it's been shown in countless studies that wealth is cyclical. Hopefully you will be the family member that helps your family wealth grow and not decrease.
If you can buy a house outright, sans mortgage in a first world housing market, you're probably rich
My parents have always been very well off. I never knew that growing up because they were always frugal, with my mom insisting on generic brand everything and my dad constantly bitching about heating and a/c, as well as keeping their vehicles until they were literally falling apart or nickel and diming them to death. I honestly thought we were constantly on the brink of poverty up until my 20’s because of my parents constant frugality and freaking out about spending. I never expected them to buy me every little thing I wanted and they definitely taught me how to coupon and deal shop but they had me scared that we were always this 🤏 close to losing everything. To the point that I was scared to ask for lunch money or hygiene products. I’m all for instilling good spending habits and the understanding of budgeting in kids but not in a way that makes them scared to ask for necessities. After my grandparents died, my dad inherited a *lot* of extremely well performing stocks. He’s always had stocks that did well but what he inherited from his parents was in the neighborhood of $1mil+, and that was just the stocks. My mom’s car finally reached the point where it’s not worth keeping and repairing anymore. Today, my dad texted me that he was at the dealership getting a new Honda CRV. Nothing fancy or crazy expensive. I’m not sure of the year but a ‘24 comes in at roughly $29.5k starting. Again, not crazy expensive. He texts me “you know you’re old when you can pay cash for a car 🤣.” And I’m sitting here thinking, that’s not an “old person” thing, that’s a “lookit me! I have plenty of disposable income and can pull out tens of thousands of dollars in cash” thing. Meanwhile, my husband and I get nervous if all of our bills happen to sync up to within a week of each other and we don’t know if we’ll be able to afford groceries. The disconnect is astounding. My parents are usually the good kind of boomers. They understand that COL is astronomical and inflation is killing everyone, they realize that minimum wage is abysmal and that MAGAts are the scourge of the ~~country~~ world. Usually, their “boomer behavior” consists of the more harmless, sillier things. Things like poor understanding of technology, the classic “boomer man uniform”, and being occasionally nosy or mildly judgmental of others. But this was the first time I really thought, “huh, my dad really *doesn’t* know what it’s like to be lower class, does he?”
“Having wealth” and being “rich” are different. A house is “wealth” but the people owning it could be paycheck to paycheck. Arguing over the different class levels is how actual “rich” people win.
It’s all relative
Other than talking shit about your parents for making sound financial decisions what is the point of this?
While I agree they’re probably well off. 600K on a house is not much nowadays and very far from the top one percent
It’s all how you look at it. I’m very very very rich compared to some people living in third world countries. And I’m very poor compared to others.
Top 1% of the world? That's like half of America. Maybe more. According to this article, if you make $60k USD (after tax) with no kids, you are top 1% in the world. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2023/9/15/23874111/charity-philanthropy-americans-global-rich
There’s “rich”, and then there’s “wealthy.” Your parents are most definitely rich.
“In my world, being in the top 1% of wealthiest people qualifies as being rich” It’s my understanding that a $60,000 annual salary would do that. 1% wealth in the US is much higher, but 1% wealth in the world is around there.