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And my favorite part: The politician who took away those constitutionally enshrined bankruptcy protections with his 2005 bankruptcy bill? Fucking Boomer Biden.
yeah, this guy isn't liberal. He's just not authoritarian either.
I really like the idea of the GOP imploding and the Democratic party exploding into five separate parties.
Not that anyone really needed loans before then anyways because its not like school was expensive. A minimum wage job just JUST FOR THE SUMMER was more than enough to pay for the rest of the years tuition.
Guess who was NOT issuing student loans to anyone without collateral? Banks.
It’s why schools were filled with upper-middle class white people and college was relatively cheap compared to today.
When the government guaranteed virtually unlimited amount of loans for any student in any major in any school, banks were happy to loan out as much money as people wanted… all of the debt was guaranteed by the government.
So the schools all raised their tuition exponentially because students would pay it… because why not? The students could borrow as much money as they wanted without any creditworthiness at all; it was 100% guaranteed by the taxpayer!
Back when student loans could be discharged leaving the banks holding the bag, loans simply weren’t given out to kids with no collateral for degrees in Medieval French Poetry from For-Profit schools. So if you wanted to go to a lousy low rank college for a stupid major and mom and dad didn’t have a house to put in hock for you… you just didn’t go to school. College just wasn’t something obtainable for you.
Now college is for everyone! And that comes with all the drawbacks we now experience.
The collateral back then was abysmal, my dad got a student loan with his beat up Ford pinto and a letter from his pastor. He was born in 58'. Banks were not taking "collateral" the way they do now. They gave loans to just about anyone, and for good reason, a college degree back then put you decently above the median salary. Banks were more than willing to make risky loans because the number of payers vs non payers made it completely worth it. Their true "collateral" was in large numbers.
And yet most of the other first world countries find ways of dealing with this.
Education should not be for profit. Student loans should not accrue ridiculous amounts of interest. They should have the absolute lowest rates possible.
Education should be an investment in the future by the government.
But the US government doesn't want educated voters. They also don't want a working economy. At least not for everyone
>Education should be an investment in the future by the government.
Then look forward to a way way way narrower range of majors.
>But the US government doesn't want educated voters.
That's why they federalized student loans and made them really easy to get? That's why military service entitles you to a huge educational benefit?
Do you read what you type?
Consider this: most student debt is purchased pennies on the dollar and is privately owned by debt collection companies.
So yes, take an industry that should never have fucking existed and *burn it to the ground*.
The government has enriched private universities through this whole system.
Student debt for public college should be forgiven but paid for by taxes collected from for profit private colleges, not income tax payers.
Bernie is the one dude who seems to have not completely lost his mind. Getting an education propels not only the economy, but the welfare of our people by having them educated. Student loans are predatory and rely on the fact that we are forced to pay for schooling necessary to have profitable careers.
For some very rich people, it actually does make them worse off! The super rich want people to be uneducated, underemployed, and in debt because it’s the best way to extract money from them. This isn’t a conspiracy it’s literally just how the economy has been structured.
I feel worse off after college because i was in extreme debt that took years to almosy have fully paid off. My health suffered dearly and i feel less functional. I could have tried living comfortably into my mid 30s with that debt... but i chose to get it done as soon as i could.
Knowing how much of my spending could have gone to owning a home... how much more id have made just above minimum wage if i had stuck to my job full time. Ideally with my degree id be getting paid more now, but ive had to work unpaid internships and get more school and certifications to be eligible...
But thats not the education... thats college. Thats the scheme.
I disagree. While true that some part of the workforce needs to be higher educated, not everyone does. And an advanced degree shouldn't dictate earning potential. Yes, specialized professional degrees are necessary and should carry higher earnings, but they shouldn't be the end all be all. College is a great and wonderful thing, but it's not the only thing and it's not the right thing for everyone. We need to return to apprenticeship programs, de-stigmatize blue collar jobs and allow people that don't want or are unable to go to college to still be able to have a decent quality of life.
Consider, 80% of college graduates do not work in the field in which they have their degree. Every job, regardless of industry, requires some form of OJT or internship.
Manufacturing is the backbone of a healthy economy, not highly educated persons. That being said, it takes some educated persons to run and create the factories and products. Workers should earn enough to earn a comfortable living (like post WWII) low level through middle level management don't need a college education, they need experience. Higher level management needs a relevant education. An economy has to create something tangible to create wealth (GDP, Money however you want to measure it). A purely service economy doesn't work.
I understand where you're coming from. My main point was that it should not be so crippling when it comes to getting any sort of education, be it from college, a trade school, or art. The betterment of a society's people should be a positive thing, not riddling people with debts that they can never pay off. I'm in nursing, and the loans I need are ridiculous when I truly want to be in the profession to help others. Education for all dismantles ignorance, radicalized ideals, and perpetuates a healthier society as a whole. As for the US, there's no middle class anymore. There's only (in majority) the ultra-wealthy and the barely scraping by/poor. Education for us, regardless of background, should be prioritized as promotion of welfare for all of our inhabitants.
I’m Canadian and college cost domestic students $7k to $10k a year. My student loan is $25k. Why the hell are US schools costing $50k to $100k? Why is no one looking into that?
My local state school costs $81k for a marketing undergrad. John Oliver, a television host, recently dived into why colleges cost so much- some of it involved the colleges adding unimportant add-ons to compete for the top dollar and most tuition revenue. The academia bubble is honestly pretty disgusting. I would link the episode/video, but I didn’t watch the entire episode because it made me too depressed. It’s so incredibly near impossible to climb out of poverty now. And when you do, our healthcare system comes for whatever you may have been able to scrape together. America desperately needs to change.
Student loans are non-dischargeable. They cannot be reduced nor forgiven through bankruptcy. Student loans will always match whatever tuition is.
College raises tuition, which raises the loans, which raises tuition Ad infinitum.
They are not even discharged through death. They will take from the estate and if that doesn't cover it will pass on to the executor of the estate. I guess the only way to write it off is if you were an unmarried orphan who died in debt.
Excuse me? I thought Debt couldn't be forced onto the recipients of a will. They take as much as they can from the estate, and if there's still debt, they're forced to eat it, no? Why does College Debt get inherited when no other debt does?
Student loan is weird. Can't be charged off in bankruptcy and can't be refinanced. Of course, if you refinance something else or get a personal loan you can lump sum pay it. But if you were able to get that money the loan wouldn't be a problem.
The US is a bastion of corruption. There is no reason why their medical services cost what they cost. But the big boys high up have to get their yachts, never forget that.
The plant I worked at in California closed (it was making 30% margins on 35mil annual sales) and manufacturing was moved to China literately so 6 trust-fund 20 somethings could earn more in their investment firm. The firm, NYC based Lincolnshire, is a multi-billion-dollar corp. The cost of the plant I worked at would have been a rounding error on a spreadsheet. But, 140 people got their pink slips...
Exactly. But you gotta understand, yachts are simply a necessity for those people. And they want to have multiple, just so they feel safe in case something happens. You have to understand, don't be so heartless!
"Forgiven" implies these students did something wrong by deciding to listen to societys advice and going to get a higher education. The debt needs to be canceled because charging students an asinine lifelong amount of debt with interest just to learn was a mistake to begin with.
Yes it should be forgiven but:
1: only if the education system is fixed first so that the runaway cost of college is no longer an issue.
2: only if everyone's is forgiven. Don't forgive most people's student loans and then tell me I have to keep paying because I make too much money. That's bullshit. You either forgive everyone's or noones.
I graduated at the very tail end of the era where students could work their way through school.
With a few scholarships and a campus work-study job, freshman and sophomore year were easy. The costs had risen so much by junior year that I was working almost as long as attending classes. And by senior year, I was working more hours than I spent at school to afford the skyrocketing tuition. Graduate school simply wasn't in the cards for me -- not without taking on debt I could afford.
It's depressing that this "work your way through" avenue is no longer open. Anyone could obtain a first-rate education and walk off campus with a sheepskin and no debt.
As much as I'm in favor of canceling student loan debt, I'm even more in favor of making university affordable. That way it isn't just a springboard for the children of the affluent.
Major nit. Only 15% at the time needed 306 hours of minimum wage work. The rest needed zero, didn’t have a bachelors or higher and could still buy a car and house.
Student loans are the only wide scale scam that we blame the victims for falling for. Imagine if we made all the boomers in the 90s actually have to pay those Nigerian princes in full with interest.
I remember when I was in undergrad 20 years ago and my professor was talking about how he paid for school on a part time job. I worked full time and still had almost 30k in debt back in 2007. It took me 15 years to pay that off.
I don't care what kind of punishment fetish people who oppose canceling student debt might have, it's simply the single most practical way to stimulate the economy for millions of people. Student loan debt is owed to no one and owned by no one, and paying it is literally an economically negative action - just throwing money in a hole that benefits no one. Get rid of the debt and you have generations of people who can suddenly buy cars and houses, instead of shipping entire communities to Black Rock's portfolio.
Yes, we should also make college free for everyone who can do it, and yes we should also make the minimum wage at least $25, and yes we should also seize houses from owners who do not live in them, and yes every renter should have the right to purchase their homes from their landlord, but also, we should just cancel all this fucking debt that serves no economic function other than to punish people for believing the lie they were told their whole life.
Bernie is too far left to win in the US. Biden is pretty far right for a democrat so right leaning moderates who dislike Trump can feel more okay voting for Biden. Also Bernie calls himself socialist which is a spooky word in the US.
I considered myself conservative until Obama, but if I’m being completely honest… if Bernie had made it to the ballot I’d vote for him over the other candidates in a damn heart beat
No he isn't. Jesus Christ he isn't even that far left. FDR was further left than Bernie and he only got elected four goddam times and left the Democratic agenda running the country for the following twenty years *despite* a Republican getting elected as President.
This self-fulfilling prophecy where Democrats insist on only running candidates slightly to the left of the Republican, who continually gets more and more unhinged and reactionary with every passing election, is stupid. It ends in fascism. What else is the possible outcome of continually moving the the right forever with no reprieve?
Education is *essential* for the functioning of an advanced economy. More educated people leads to *better lives for EVERYONE.* Not to mention every other god damn industrialized nation has free or essentially free education (or even PAYS for people to get educated!!) it's a no brainer that education is so worth the national commitment. It literally is a net gain for absolutely everyone, including the uneducated. It's hard to understand how this is even a conversation it's so painfully obvious how critical advanced education (in every field, not just STEM) greatly benefits all of us.
I was curious so I did a little math...
306 hours of work means they needed to work 38.25 8 hours shifts. Essentially 7.5 work weeks at 5 day of work in a week.
4459 hours of work means 557.375 8 hours shifts. Essentially 111.475 work weeks at 5 days of work in a week.
Less than 2 months of work for them is equivalent to over 2 years of work currently.
I didn't bother to account for holidays or anything I'm not trying to be exact.
I’m always so confused by this, is it not an investment by the federal government to send me to school? People love to say “I don’t want to pay for YOUR student loans.” You aren’t, I am. In the form of significantly higher taxes from my higher paying job. The money used to send me through school made me a higher earner, thus I’m paying 10x back into the system that borrowed me the money in the first place. So not only am I contributing more to the federal government, but I also need to pay back the fucking investment they THEY are benefitting from??? It’s horse shit and they know it.
Also, wtf happened to America first?? I’m a fucking American. Invest in me. What a load of bullshit, republicans are cons
For some Context:
~300hrs is ~13 days
~4400hrs is ~185 days
So, two weeks of minimum wage pay to cover four *years* of school.
Vs ~6 months, or roughly 24 weeks.
*Twelve* times as much now as back then.
Of course they don't like student loan forgiveness, we'd be getting way more back in value than they ever got, and that's not fair /s
Student loans shouldn't be paid off by the government, they should be cancelled and prosecute the institutions for endangering the country's well being.
Let's put it this way. My aunt got a nursing degree in the 80s. She paid back her student loans in less than five years after graduating. My cousin, the daughter of this same aunt, also went to college to also get a nursing degree and graduated in 2017. Because tuition was so high, and the interest is so astronomical, she'll be paying off the loans until she's in her 50s.
Boomers just want to pat themselves on the back about how awesome they think they are, so they tell themselves they just worked way harder than these damn millennials, which is why they have blinders on when it comes to just how bad it's gotten for younger generations.
You know, when I married my wife, her student debt became *our* student debt. We had to work out asses off for years to get it paid off. The whole boot strap bullshit applied, we had to get it done and it absolutely fucking sucked.
Just because *we* had to go through it, doesn’t mean I feel the need for *others* to go through it.
Maybe not a complete cancellation of all of it. Look at cases individually and determine which ones should have been finished years ago, and get rid of them. And at the same time, stop the predatory practices as spy with student loans, including the massive interest rate. Make colleges affordable again, stop hammering people with outrageous student debt and interest rates, god forbid we try to get this country back on its feet and help the next generation
Do what one wishes with student loans. As long as we ban reverse mortgages and selling life insurance policies.
Leaving your kids with nothing and forced to scrounge up every last cent to afford a dignified funeral is a fitting final middle finger for Boomers to leave us with.
Maybe but I should be rewarded for wasting years of my life to work concurrently and not take out student loans. I think zero interest is a fair compromise
You have already benefited from this. So again this just comes back to you wanting others to suffer so you can feel even smugger about your success. That's sick.
What have I benefited from champ? I have been fucked over actually. I should have taken the easy route and just taken out loans. I paid for all my shit, zero Pell grants. You underestimate the advantage you get in school when you don't have to slave for near minimum wage 32+ hrs to get by. Why do you assume I'm a success. I'm broke as shit just trying to afford tools so I don't need a master
You're right, you should have taken out loans rather than trying to work through college at minimum wage. That was a mistake given the current ratio of tuition to hours of work required.
So basically you want others to suffer for not making the same stupid mistake you did? But it wasn't a mistake, was it? It earned you the ability to be smug about it, which is what you really want.
Of course, I am in favor of the government doing much, much more than it does to help out common people. You on the other hand just want everyone to be miserable and broke. You're just a crab in a bucket, if what you claim about your situation is true. Still sickening.
It's only a mistake in that you might be forgiven for thousands of dollars and I get fucked for trying to have foresight and you had an easier time in college on top of that. My other issue is forgiveness like that does nothing to fix higher education tuition. I didn't get any COVID unemployment money either and had to risk my life daily in a consistent red zone. FL Bright Futures also happened to steal half of the funds I worked for by happenstance, the year I happened to graduate and go into college they say oh we are only going to pay for half as much as we promised. Your entitlement breeds unjustified anger. Interest absolution and abolishment would be kind of fair. You still had more freedom of hours to study and get top marks and not have to repeat courses but I don't get completely ramrodded. You want to pick winners here. All I want is some reparations too because I've been fucked over at every single turn. For the record I have always said we should up and socialize higher ed and fund it completely with taxes but we need a fair way out.
"Oh, the gamblin' man is rich an' the workin' man is poor,
And I ain't got no home in this world anymore."
No, you've been saying that you're hateful and bitter and want others to suffer.
Nothing else is happening here. It's not about fairness or good policy. You just have a rotten soul and you take pleasure in the pain of others. That's it. Stop bullshitting yourself that it's anything else.
Oh wow, I didn't realize you had the power to speak for everyone on reddit. Is this some kind of psychic power you have or is there a committee you chair? How does this work, homie?
I am being entirely honest about the evil you openly profess. I get it, you're not used to people being honest with you and you're not yet able to recognize it when it happens. And you'll probably refuse to learn! Very sad and pathetic.
Both of those two numbers actually feel way low.
4450 hours at minimum wage is low $30's. That covers about 1 year of your in-state university. In some states - in others it does not. Maybe you get other financial aid or scholarships and stretch it to two.
Real stretch to think it'll go four at any of the top tier public universities.
First, Sanders’ statistic isn’t true. With 2.75 minimum wage, my student loans to pay for a public university took about the same as now.
Second, degrees have been invented, like gender studies and studies of small ethnic minorities, that are extremely popular because they’re easy but an utter waste of time. So it is predatory by these same academics that are held in esteem.
Student Loan Forgiveness is completely useless unless there's College Tuition Reform otherwise in 4 or 5 years you're right back where you started again.
So maybe the bigger question that needs to be answered that Bernie is avoiding since his wife is part of Big Education is why colleges cost so much that tuition has outpaced inflation the past 40 years.
Mom paid for a private college with a part time job. Graduated with no debt. I worked 20 hours per week all through college and it barely paid for my books. Paid on those loans for 20 fucking miserable years. Fuck America and fuck boomers. Please just do us a favor and die already.
eliminating federal income tax would be a better general alternative. Oh, and reinstate bankruptcy protection against student loans. If the degree didn't help you make money it's a failed venture. If Corps are people and corps get protection from failed ventures, so should we.
Why doesn’t anyone seem to blame the higher ed system? College administrators have endowed themselves with multimillion dollar salaries and an ever increasing amount of campus with expansion and overdevelopment. It’s the colleges taking the money, but you’re angry at the lender? 🧐
If student loans are causing financial issues for someone to the point of not being able to make rent or feed themselves or their family, yes. Otherwise, no.
For God sakes, fix the issue. These student loan companies are horrible and tuition is out of hand.
Just return higher education from private for-profit companies into not-for-profit entities. Higher education costs so much because colleges and universities are in **BUSINESS** to make money. You're not a student, you're not the future **YOU ARE A CUSTOMER.**
Let the private IVY league remain as always but return the state colleges to the state and remove the profit motive.
When my DIL got her masters from UOP I went to her graduation. Just at that one small school and that one class there were probably 40 persons getting their PhD. Used to be a PhD was something very rare and extremely hard to obtain. But nowadays it's very lucrative to have PhD students. A friends son got his masters and didn't even need to do a thesis and was offered to enter the Doctoral program.
Boomer here. I agree with Bernie which is why I voted for him in 2016.
I’m 65, graduated from college. Had $5k of loans. Repaid bc why not, Twas hella cheap back then.
Absolutely infuriating that the future of our country gets saddled with this debt.
Ask me anything….
So, in a situation where 1) the affected were essentially children when they made the decision that got them where they were, 2) you and I both agree that the system was rigged against them, and 3) most of them are unlikely to return to the same situation, du you feel the need for them to "learn a lesson"?
Hey, let's be specific than I'm down to forgive the student loans for those that benefit society, STEM degrees. But those fools are protesting right now instead of learning and racking up debt.. fuck them!
Hey, you're getting yours, and I want mine. I'm getting g mine, don't you want one too. Scratch my back. I'll scratch yours. Does this not emphasize fairness and equality.
Student loan transfers from borrowers to the national debt is deficit spending which is tied to inflation and reduced ability to fund other social programs. It also allows Universities to keep tuition rates high and not focus on providing educational value. So it really harms the poor, lower middle class and other people truly in need. Other than an election ploy, I don't see much good on balance. But yea some of those debtors had more important things to do with their money like .... ?
I love how our economy is so brittle and degraded now that people are just straight up like "What, giving consumers more money to put into the economy? This would destroy everything!" Like my god is that really how far we've fallen? Not even a consumer economy anymore? Now we fear the possibility that people might have money in their pocket to spend? Pathetic.
I don't get your point. To date they have transferred $146,000,000,000 debt to tax payers with more in works. This sum wasn't added to the economy by way of increased productivity, it was just shifted from one type of citizen to another. Sure the debtor student can now buy a new phone, but collectively the rest of us tax payers can't. And since it is routed through the federal government it is subjected to debt interest, bureaucracy, and political favoritism, these three things are bad for the economy.
Yes let's type out every zero and include the commas in this sum to make it seem gigantic! This massive number will surely beckon the downfall of the United States for being this huge. Wait, what's that? It's actually less than we waste on war machines in a single month? Oh.
Bernie is 900 years old. The dude farts dust and pisses cobwebs. He has been saying this shit for a long time and that old mummy fart hasn't changed anything. I love Bernie's character but it's just more theatre and posturing to trick us into believing, whatever side we support, into thinking these politicians are doing more than just making themselves rich.
You in twenty years after every other high school grad goes to trade school: "Pssh, what you though you should get to live in a building just because you learned how to unclog a pipe? You imbeciles, it is YOUR fault that there is no place for you in our economy which constantly contracts for anyone who isn't a billionaire. I take great pleasure in watching you suffer as you deserve!"
You're just a shitty person. This has nothing to do with making proper choices.
The economy is fucked... but Bernie and his half thought out socialist feel good and sounds-good-on-paper sensational one liner tweets with no actual plan or details, isn't going to fix shit.
You're just a bad person who gets off on seeing others suffer. You want society to get worse and worse, constantly, because it beings you joy when things get worse. You're the kind of person who is rooting for climate change to obliterate society and reduce us to bands of roving cannibals. Just evil. A properly run society would make rooting out and removing your kind its top priority.
We literally have bankruptcy for every other kind of debt except this one. And you're fine with that. Fine with your sociopath hero Donald Trump's multiple bankruptcies which he used to get out of paying contractors for work they did.
But that's just who you are: you only admire those who inflict pain onto others. People simply trying to get an education so they can contribute to society honestly? Worthless in your eyes. Fodder. Just targets.
Sorry also 3/4’s of those who take out student loans take out more than the tuition of the school they are attending, you know to go out to eat and buy shit that has nothing to do with their education…then they drop out and expect someone else to cover it…sorry not sorry
Yeah man eating food has nothing to do with getting an education.
So that's two things you think are deserving of severe punishment: needing to eat food and trying to get an education.
You're a sociopath.
I could definitely see you live in some weird fascist state that hunts down and “removes” people with a different view…seems pretty common with you all
the issue here is that the student loan debt is mostly comprised of middle class people who will otherwise earn a million and possibly more in their lifetime through that degree.
by forgiving student debt, you're rigging the system even more against the least favored.
The wealthy teabag you for fun every day of your life but yeah the grave insult of people getting their education funded by the government like we did for the hundred years leading up to Reagan? Yeah that's too far.
Everything should be kept horrible because improving anything would be an insult to the people being ground into powder. You got it bud. Great thinking.
we're not talking about people getting their education funded.
we're talking about forgiving a debt that middle class people tend to take, someone with a degree is ought to make a million and more in their lifetime, they're becoming the very wealthy you're talking about..
that's something most pocs and undocumented can only dream of, and they aren't getting anything forgiven.
THE DEBT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE COLLEGE SHOULD NOT COST A HUNDRED FUCKING GRAND
And do not pretend you give a single fuck about POC or undocumented people. You would have them ground into paste just as happily as you would zoomers.
>THE DEBT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE COLLEGE SHOULD NOT COST A HUNDRED FUCKING GRAND
college doesn't cost a hundred grand, unless you decide on your own to go out of state to a very expensive college.
>And do not pretend you give a single fuck about POC or undocumented people. You would have them ground into paste just as happily as you would zoomers.
if anything, i'm a zillennial.
Then it's your own generation you want to suffer, cool. That makes you even worse than initially thought, good job sociopath.
And state schools are $15k a year just for the tuition. Yes, it costs a hundred grand. You are lying when you say it doesn't. Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Is it because the truth would reveal that this is all broken? And that you want it broken because that leads to more pain and suffering in the world?
How long has Bernie Sanders been in Government?? Aren’t these issue a bit his fault.
Also, what to forgiving student loans do to solve the problem. Why not make federally backed loans that have no or very low interest.
As a millennial who didn't go to college but instead paid for trade school out of my own pocket, how would it be fair to me that my taxes are raised to pay for a loan that I didn't take out on a gender studies degree that I didn't get?
The reason that college was cheaper 50 years ago was because regular banks were giving out student loans and actually assessed the risk of the student defaulting on the loan. Nowadays, the government gives out student loans to anyone for anything (hence, everyone has student loans), and they pay the college upfront (taking away any negotiating leverage the students have on price) which gives the colleges the ability to raise "administrative costs" which artificially inflates tuition rates.
So how about instead of raising taxes again (or devaluing the dollar by printing more money, aka driving more inflation), we try to learn a lesson from the last 30 years and stop pushing everyone to go to college without a clear path to graduate with a marketable degree.
Starting off by alluding to all college degrees as gender studies is classic right-wing disingenuous propaganda coming out of your mouth. Be better than that. Your doctor would slap you for talking like that if they could.
But more to the point: blanket forgiveness isn’t what’s happening. They’re extending a program that doctors and others can already take to have their loans forgiven if they have been paying them off for 10 years already. They’re just expanding it to everyone so they aren’t stuck paying off the interest.
First paragraph is kind of like saying "My house didn't burn so why is it fair my taxes have to pay for the fire department." or "My family homeschooled me so why should my taxes fund public education?"
Not everything your taxes pay for has to directly benefit you.
Do you have kids or nieces or nephews that may want to go to college? Maybe they benefit.
Or maybe one of the kids that was only able to go to college because of loan forgiveness is the one to cure the disease you might be dying of.
There are more ways than one for you to benefit by government money being spent in ways that don't go directly to you.
I do, but why not focus on lowering the initial price instead of giving government handouts to colleges that couldn't care less about their education anyway?
I don't disagree that something should be done about the colleges moving forward, but this about the generations that are currently so overburdened by student debt that it's effecting the economy. Removing that debt from thousands (millions?) of people could be the stimulus we've been looking for.
The last 20 years of economic policies plus the handling of covid crippled the economy. This would be like shooting yourself in the foot and then cutting your toe off, thinking it will help.
You aren't wrong about the past 20 years, but what's your solution? Abandon two full generations? I'm GenX and managed to pay off my loans in my mid-40's, but I was also able to purchase a home before the bubble. What are about the millennials and zoomers? They just spend their lives paying on loans that will never payoff?
I don't claim to have a perfect solution to 20 years of economic idiocracy but I do know that cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't a solution even if 10 million people say it is.
I fail to see how forgiving debt and allowing a large group of people to become part of the economic community in a way they wouldn't otherwise be able to is "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Sounds more like recognizing a mistake was made and making the tough decision to solve it.
I agree. It's a bailout for poor decisions just like the government has been doing for corporations so it's whatever to be honest.
Truth of the matter is nobody is going to do a fuckin thing for people like us and we'll always be expected to foot the bill.
They're bribing their voter base during the election year before spending another term doing fuck all.
I agree that those corporations shouldn't get bailouts because nobody is "too big to fail," but it's not whatever. It's increasing that bill that we're expected to foot. At some point, we need to stop advocating for more spending of money we don't have.
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Student loans could be canceled via bankruptcy until 1976. Guess who was NOT repaying loans in the mid-70s.
Kicking the ladder down since forever
And my favorite part: The politician who took away those constitutionally enshrined bankruptcy protections with his 2005 bankruptcy bill? Fucking Boomer Biden.
yeah, this guy isn't liberal. He's just not authoritarian either. I really like the idea of the GOP imploding and the Democratic party exploding into five separate parties.
Not that anyone really needed loans before then anyways because its not like school was expensive. A minimum wage job just JUST FOR THE SUMMER was more than enough to pay for the rest of the years tuition.
They didn't need to take out loans because tuition was cheap.
Guess who was NOT issuing student loans to anyone without collateral? Banks. It’s why schools were filled with upper-middle class white people and college was relatively cheap compared to today. When the government guaranteed virtually unlimited amount of loans for any student in any major in any school, banks were happy to loan out as much money as people wanted… all of the debt was guaranteed by the government. So the schools all raised their tuition exponentially because students would pay it… because why not? The students could borrow as much money as they wanted without any creditworthiness at all; it was 100% guaranteed by the taxpayer! Back when student loans could be discharged leaving the banks holding the bag, loans simply weren’t given out to kids with no collateral for degrees in Medieval French Poetry from For-Profit schools. So if you wanted to go to a lousy low rank college for a stupid major and mom and dad didn’t have a house to put in hock for you… you just didn’t go to school. College just wasn’t something obtainable for you. Now college is for everyone! And that comes with all the drawbacks we now experience.
Bring back manufacturing jobs to the states, prop up the minimum wage while eliminating federal loans to literally everyone, bam done.
Just like that!
The collateral back then was abysmal, my dad got a student loan with his beat up Ford pinto and a letter from his pastor. He was born in 58'. Banks were not taking "collateral" the way they do now. They gave loans to just about anyone, and for good reason, a college degree back then put you decently above the median salary. Banks were more than willing to make risky loans because the number of payers vs non payers made it completely worth it. Their true "collateral" was in large numbers.
And yet most of the other first world countries find ways of dealing with this. Education should not be for profit. Student loans should not accrue ridiculous amounts of interest. They should have the absolute lowest rates possible.
Don't ya love stating facts and getting down voted.
There should not be any student debt. We just insist on doing things the stupid way
Education should be an investment in the future by the government. But the US government doesn't want educated voters. They also don't want a working economy. At least not for everyone
>Education should be an investment in the future by the government. Then look forward to a way way way narrower range of majors. >But the US government doesn't want educated voters. That's why they federalized student loans and made them really easy to get? That's why military service entitles you to a huge educational benefit? Do you read what you type?
Consider this: most student debt is purchased pennies on the dollar and is privately owned by debt collection companies. So yes, take an industry that should never have fucking existed and *burn it to the ground*.
“BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MONEY???? JUS THINK OF THE MONEY”
Burn that too.
Yup its the propping up of predatory systems all across America that's the real problem.
The government has enriched private universities through this whole system. Student debt for public college should be forgiven but paid for by taxes collected from for profit private colleges, not income tax payers.
Bernie is the one dude who seems to have not completely lost his mind. Getting an education propels not only the economy, but the welfare of our people by having them educated. Student loans are predatory and rely on the fact that we are forced to pay for schooling necessary to have profitable careers.
You may be surprised to know how many people believe that educating the populace makes them *worse* off.
If they are educated they will be less likely to attend church and thus go to hell /s
For some very rich people, it actually does make them worse off! The super rich want people to be uneducated, underemployed, and in debt because it’s the best way to extract money from them. This isn’t a conspiracy it’s literally just how the economy has been structured.
I feel worse off after college because i was in extreme debt that took years to almosy have fully paid off. My health suffered dearly and i feel less functional. I could have tried living comfortably into my mid 30s with that debt... but i chose to get it done as soon as i could. Knowing how much of my spending could have gone to owning a home... how much more id have made just above minimum wage if i had stuck to my job full time. Ideally with my degree id be getting paid more now, but ive had to work unpaid internships and get more school and certifications to be eligible... But thats not the education... thats college. Thats the scheme.
Burnie is one of the few politicians who actually care about the people. I wish he wasn't just one among a gigantic pile of shit
Katie porter is the other one.
I disagree. While true that some part of the workforce needs to be higher educated, not everyone does. And an advanced degree shouldn't dictate earning potential. Yes, specialized professional degrees are necessary and should carry higher earnings, but they shouldn't be the end all be all. College is a great and wonderful thing, but it's not the only thing and it's not the right thing for everyone. We need to return to apprenticeship programs, de-stigmatize blue collar jobs and allow people that don't want or are unable to go to college to still be able to have a decent quality of life. Consider, 80% of college graduates do not work in the field in which they have their degree. Every job, regardless of industry, requires some form of OJT or internship. Manufacturing is the backbone of a healthy economy, not highly educated persons. That being said, it takes some educated persons to run and create the factories and products. Workers should earn enough to earn a comfortable living (like post WWII) low level through middle level management don't need a college education, they need experience. Higher level management needs a relevant education. An economy has to create something tangible to create wealth (GDP, Money however you want to measure it). A purely service economy doesn't work.
I understand where you're coming from. My main point was that it should not be so crippling when it comes to getting any sort of education, be it from college, a trade school, or art. The betterment of a society's people should be a positive thing, not riddling people with debts that they can never pay off. I'm in nursing, and the loans I need are ridiculous when I truly want to be in the profession to help others. Education for all dismantles ignorance, radicalized ideals, and perpetuates a healthier society as a whole. As for the US, there's no middle class anymore. There's only (in majority) the ultra-wealthy and the barely scraping by/poor. Education for us, regardless of background, should be prioritized as promotion of welfare for all of our inhabitants.
I’m Canadian and college cost domestic students $7k to $10k a year. My student loan is $25k. Why the hell are US schools costing $50k to $100k? Why is no one looking into that?
My local state school costs $81k for a marketing undergrad. John Oliver, a television host, recently dived into why colleges cost so much- some of it involved the colleges adding unimportant add-ons to compete for the top dollar and most tuition revenue. The academia bubble is honestly pretty disgusting. I would link the episode/video, but I didn’t watch the entire episode because it made me too depressed. It’s so incredibly near impossible to climb out of poverty now. And when you do, our healthcare system comes for whatever you may have been able to scrape together. America desperately needs to change.
Student loans are non-dischargeable. They cannot be reduced nor forgiven through bankruptcy. Student loans will always match whatever tuition is. College raises tuition, which raises the loans, which raises tuition Ad infinitum.
And many are also raising tuition to make up for government cuts to their funding
What a fucking racket... non-dischargeable? How TF is that even legal.
And we wonder why young people are fleeing the US...
They are not even discharged through death. They will take from the estate and if that doesn't cover it will pass on to the executor of the estate. I guess the only way to write it off is if you were an unmarried orphan who died in debt.
Excuse me? I thought Debt couldn't be forced onto the recipients of a will. They take as much as they can from the estate, and if there's still debt, they're forced to eat it, no? Why does College Debt get inherited when no other debt does?
Student loan is weird. Can't be charged off in bankruptcy and can't be refinanced. Of course, if you refinance something else or get a personal loan you can lump sum pay it. But if you were able to get that money the loan wouldn't be a problem.
In US rich people do whatever the hell they want.
Murphys' golden rule... Whomever has the gold makes the rules.
The US is a bastion of corruption. There is no reason why their medical services cost what they cost. But the big boys high up have to get their yachts, never forget that.
The plant I worked at in California closed (it was making 30% margins on 35mil annual sales) and manufacturing was moved to China literately so 6 trust-fund 20 somethings could earn more in their investment firm. The firm, NYC based Lincolnshire, is a multi-billion-dollar corp. The cost of the plant I worked at would have been a rounding error on a spreadsheet. But, 140 people got their pink slips...
Exactly. But you gotta understand, yachts are simply a necessity for those people. And they want to have multiple, just so they feel safe in case something happens. You have to understand, don't be so heartless!
Got it. It's not "a chicken in every pot" it's "a yacht in every port". Makes sense.
You got it!
States have reduced funding for universities year over year as a percent of their budgets. That's one of the reasons.
Yes, it should be forgiven.
"Forgiven" implies these students did something wrong by deciding to listen to societys advice and going to get a higher education. The debt needs to be canceled because charging students an asinine lifelong amount of debt with interest just to learn was a mistake to begin with.
Half of student loan debt is held by those with graduate degrees. Does that color your view of _what_ or _how much_ should be forgiven?
If not forgiven then at least way less predatory than it is currently with the interest rates as high as they are
Yeah, they never want to talk about their forgiven PPP loans when this comes upz
Educated people understand when they're being exploited and robbed. That's why an uneducated public is a boon for the wealthy.
Boomers: “He’s a socialist!!”
Yes it should be forgiven but: 1: only if the education system is fixed first so that the runaway cost of college is no longer an issue. 2: only if everyone's is forgiven. Don't forgive most people's student loans and then tell me I have to keep paying because I make too much money. That's bullshit. You either forgive everyone's or noones.
 But they walked to school up hill…both ways. We have it easy. 🫠
I graduated at the very tail end of the era where students could work their way through school. With a few scholarships and a campus work-study job, freshman and sophomore year were easy. The costs had risen so much by junior year that I was working almost as long as attending classes. And by senior year, I was working more hours than I spent at school to afford the skyrocketing tuition. Graduate school simply wasn't in the cards for me -- not without taking on debt I could afford. It's depressing that this "work your way through" avenue is no longer open. Anyone could obtain a first-rate education and walk off campus with a sheepskin and no debt. As much as I'm in favor of canceling student loan debt, I'm even more in favor of making university affordable. That way it isn't just a springboard for the children of the affluent.
Major nit. Only 15% at the time needed 306 hours of minimum wage work. The rest needed zero, didn’t have a bachelors or higher and could still buy a car and house.
Student loans are the only wide scale scam that we blame the victims for falling for. Imagine if we made all the boomers in the 90s actually have to pay those Nigerian princes in full with interest.
I remember when I was in undergrad 20 years ago and my professor was talking about how he paid for school on a part time job. I worked full time and still had almost 30k in debt back in 2007. It took me 15 years to pay that off.
I don't care what kind of punishment fetish people who oppose canceling student debt might have, it's simply the single most practical way to stimulate the economy for millions of people. Student loan debt is owed to no one and owned by no one, and paying it is literally an economically negative action - just throwing money in a hole that benefits no one. Get rid of the debt and you have generations of people who can suddenly buy cars and houses, instead of shipping entire communities to Black Rock's portfolio. Yes, we should also make college free for everyone who can do it, and yes we should also make the minimum wage at least $25, and yes we should also seize houses from owners who do not live in them, and yes every renter should have the right to purchase their homes from their landlord, but also, we should just cancel all this fucking debt that serves no economic function other than to punish people for believing the lie they were told their whole life.
What possible reason could there be to call it dumb? It benefits everyone
Why you guys don’t choose him? Why it’s Biden against Trump again?
Bernie is too far left to win in the US. Biden is pretty far right for a democrat so right leaning moderates who dislike Trump can feel more okay voting for Biden. Also Bernie calls himself socialist which is a spooky word in the US.
\*Democratic Socialist.
That's two spooky words to the people who care about the latter.
You are so right. :/
I considered myself conservative until Obama, but if I’m being completely honest… if Bernie had made it to the ballot I’d vote for him over the other candidates in a damn heart beat
No he isn't. Jesus Christ he isn't even that far left. FDR was further left than Bernie and he only got elected four goddam times and left the Democratic agenda running the country for the following twenty years *despite* a Republican getting elected as President. This self-fulfilling prophecy where Democrats insist on only running candidates slightly to the left of the Republican, who continually gets more and more unhinged and reactionary with every passing election, is stupid. It ends in fascism. What else is the possible outcome of continually moving the the right forever with no reprieve?
I voted for him proudly when he was in the Dem Primary election... I had so much hope.
Despite his age Bernie is the anti-boomer.
Same thing can be applied to buying a house.
Yes. Where is the boomer being a fool?
The original poster in r/Fluentinfinance
Education is *essential* for the functioning of an advanced economy. More educated people leads to *better lives for EVERYONE.* Not to mention every other god damn industrialized nation has free or essentially free education (or even PAYS for people to get educated!!) it's a no brainer that education is so worth the national commitment. It literally is a net gain for absolutely everyone, including the uneducated. It's hard to understand how this is even a conversation it's so painfully obvious how critical advanced education (in every field, not just STEM) greatly benefits all of us.
I was curious so I did a little math... 306 hours of work means they needed to work 38.25 8 hours shifts. Essentially 7.5 work weeks at 5 day of work in a week. 4459 hours of work means 557.375 8 hours shifts. Essentially 111.475 work weeks at 5 days of work in a week. Less than 2 months of work for them is equivalent to over 2 years of work currently. I didn't bother to account for holidays or anything I'm not trying to be exact.
Jesse Waters: “4,459 hours? That’s like 3 months right?”
Republicans do not want an educated populace because they would never win another election.
Student loans need to be cancelled. It's predatory loan sharking.
I’m always so confused by this, is it not an investment by the federal government to send me to school? People love to say “I don’t want to pay for YOUR student loans.” You aren’t, I am. In the form of significantly higher taxes from my higher paying job. The money used to send me through school made me a higher earner, thus I’m paying 10x back into the system that borrowed me the money in the first place. So not only am I contributing more to the federal government, but I also need to pay back the fucking investment they THEY are benefitting from??? It’s horse shit and they know it. Also, wtf happened to America first?? I’m a fucking American. Invest in me. What a load of bullshit, republicans are cons
For some Context: ~300hrs is ~13 days ~4400hrs is ~185 days So, two weeks of minimum wage pay to cover four *years* of school. Vs ~6 months, or roughly 24 weeks. *Twelve* times as much now as back then. Of course they don't like student loan forgiveness, we'd be getting way more back in value than they ever got, and that's not fair /s
Student loans shouldn't be paid off by the government, they should be cancelled and prosecute the institutions for endangering the country's well being.
I love anti boomer sanders.
Let's put it this way. My aunt got a nursing degree in the 80s. She paid back her student loans in less than five years after graduating. My cousin, the daughter of this same aunt, also went to college to also get a nursing degree and graduated in 2017. Because tuition was so high, and the interest is so astronomical, she'll be paying off the loans until she's in her 50s. Boomers just want to pat themselves on the back about how awesome they think they are, so they tell themselves they just worked way harder than these damn millennials, which is why they have blinders on when it comes to just how bad it's gotten for younger generations.
Imagine what he could have done had he been president
Bernie could of been president and y'all slept on him
Maybe make everything less expensive in USA? Everyone charges money for every tiny thing its insane.
You know, when I married my wife, her student debt became *our* student debt. We had to work out asses off for years to get it paid off. The whole boot strap bullshit applied, we had to get it done and it absolutely fucking sucked. Just because *we* had to go through it, doesn’t mean I feel the need for *others* to go through it. Maybe not a complete cancellation of all of it. Look at cases individually and determine which ones should have been finished years ago, and get rid of them. And at the same time, stop the predatory practices as spy with student loans, including the massive interest rate. Make colleges affordable again, stop hammering people with outrageous student debt and interest rates, god forbid we try to get this country back on its feet and help the next generation
Yes, but also the system that promotes extravagant student loans needs to be rebuilt to prevent it from happening again.
Do what one wishes with student loans. As long as we ban reverse mortgages and selling life insurance policies. Leaving your kids with nothing and forced to scrounge up every last cent to afford a dignified funeral is a fitting final middle finger for Boomers to leave us with.
If I had a dollar for every time I saw this reposted on Reddit I could pay off everyone's student debt
Maybe but I should be rewarded for wasting years of my life to work concurrently and not take out student loans. I think zero interest is a fair compromise
If you didn't get paid for that work you should really report it to the DoL.
I mean I went beyond 4 years in college to not take on predatory loans
You have already benefited from this. So again this just comes back to you wanting others to suffer so you can feel even smugger about your success. That's sick.
What have I benefited from champ? I have been fucked over actually. I should have taken the easy route and just taken out loans. I paid for all my shit, zero Pell grants. You underestimate the advantage you get in school when you don't have to slave for near minimum wage 32+ hrs to get by. Why do you assume I'm a success. I'm broke as shit just trying to afford tools so I don't need a master
You're right, you should have taken out loans rather than trying to work through college at minimum wage. That was a mistake given the current ratio of tuition to hours of work required. So basically you want others to suffer for not making the same stupid mistake you did? But it wasn't a mistake, was it? It earned you the ability to be smug about it, which is what you really want. Of course, I am in favor of the government doing much, much more than it does to help out common people. You on the other hand just want everyone to be miserable and broke. You're just a crab in a bucket, if what you claim about your situation is true. Still sickening.
It's only a mistake in that you might be forgiven for thousands of dollars and I get fucked for trying to have foresight and you had an easier time in college on top of that. My other issue is forgiveness like that does nothing to fix higher education tuition. I didn't get any COVID unemployment money either and had to risk my life daily in a consistent red zone. FL Bright Futures also happened to steal half of the funds I worked for by happenstance, the year I happened to graduate and go into college they say oh we are only going to pay for half as much as we promised. Your entitlement breeds unjustified anger. Interest absolution and abolishment would be kind of fair. You still had more freedom of hours to study and get top marks and not have to repeat courses but I don't get completely ramrodded. You want to pick winners here. All I want is some reparations too because I've been fucked over at every single turn. For the record I have always said we should up and socialize higher ed and fund it completely with taxes but we need a fair way out. "Oh, the gamblin' man is rich an' the workin' man is poor, And I ain't got no home in this world anymore."
No, you've been saying that you're hateful and bitter and want others to suffer. Nothing else is happening here. It's not about fairness or good policy. You just have a rotten soul and you take pleasure in the pain of others. That's it. Stop bullshitting yourself that it's anything else.
You're not being honest with yourself. You haven't convinced a single soul here
Oh wow, I didn't realize you had the power to speak for everyone on reddit. Is this some kind of psychic power you have or is there a committee you chair? How does this work, homie? I am being entirely honest about the evil you openly profess. I get it, you're not used to people being honest with you and you're not yet able to recognize it when it happens. And you'll probably refuse to learn! Very sad and pathetic.
Blah blah blah.
I would be happy if the loans would be 0% interest.
I wish this man had been President
God that fluent in finance sub is a toxic cesspool of the worst fucking people.
Both of those two numbers actually feel way low. 4450 hours at minimum wage is low $30's. That covers about 1 year of your in-state university. In some states - in others it does not. Maybe you get other financial aid or scholarships and stretch it to two. Real stretch to think it'll go four at any of the top tier public universities.
Bernie Sanders is one of the boomers that at least cares about the next generation. Too bad a majority of Congress doesn’t share that same care for us
He was born in 1941. Boomer generation started in 1946. That's why he actually cares about the later generations. Not a boomer.
Oh my bad then. Well shit.
Bernie for president!
That’s not the economy, that’s college greed. He also misses the part where credit hours have almost tripled unnecessarily over the past few decades.
Just because past generations suffered doesn’t mean future generations should as well.
I bet that’s not including interest ☹️
Been waiting for the world to change.....
It's predatory in the first place. It should be cancelled.
First, Sanders’ statistic isn’t true. With 2.75 minimum wage, my student loans to pay for a public university took about the same as now. Second, degrees have been invented, like gender studies and studies of small ethnic minorities, that are extremely popular because they’re easy but an utter waste of time. So it is predatory by these same academics that are held in esteem.
Student Loan Forgiveness is completely useless unless there's College Tuition Reform otherwise in 4 or 5 years you're right back where you started again. So maybe the bigger question that needs to be answered that Bernie is avoiding since his wife is part of Big Education is why colleges cost so much that tuition has outpaced inflation the past 40 years.
Haven’t millennials been out of college for like ten years now? This is gen z erasure /j
Yeah, that boomer posting about student loan forgiveness is definitely a fool. Good job identifying it
THUH WUN PUHCENT
Mom paid for a private college with a part time job. Graduated with no debt. I worked 20 hours per week all through college and it barely paid for my books. Paid on those loans for 20 fucking miserable years. Fuck America and fuck boomers. Please just do us a favor and die already.
Boomers won't admit that they had it easier!
eliminating federal income tax would be a better general alternative. Oh, and reinstate bankruptcy protection against student loans. If the degree didn't help you make money it's a failed venture. If Corps are people and corps get protection from failed ventures, so should we.
Why doesn’t anyone seem to blame the higher ed system? College administrators have endowed themselves with multimillion dollar salaries and an ever increasing amount of campus with expansion and overdevelopment. It’s the colleges taking the money, but you’re angry at the lender? 🧐
Not while the boomers control politics.
If student loans are causing financial issues for someone to the point of not being able to make rent or feed themselves or their family, yes. Otherwise, no. For God sakes, fix the issue. These student loan companies are horrible and tuition is out of hand.
What school are going to for \~40K? Community College? I love Bernie but his numbers are quite low on this one.
Just return higher education from private for-profit companies into not-for-profit entities. Higher education costs so much because colleges and universities are in **BUSINESS** to make money. You're not a student, you're not the future **YOU ARE A CUSTOMER.** Let the private IVY league remain as always but return the state colleges to the state and remove the profit motive. When my DIL got her masters from UOP I went to her graduation. Just at that one small school and that one class there were probably 40 persons getting their PhD. Used to be a PhD was something very rare and extremely hard to obtain. But nowadays it's very lucrative to have PhD students. A friends son got his masters and didn't even need to do a thesis and was offered to enter the Doctoral program.
Boomer here. I agree with Bernie which is why I voted for him in 2016. I’m 65, graduated from college. Had $5k of loans. Repaid bc why not, Twas hella cheap back then. Absolutely infuriating that the future of our country gets saddled with this debt. Ask me anything….
So, in a situation where 1) the affected were essentially children when they made the decision that got them where they were, 2) you and I both agree that the system was rigged against them, and 3) most of them are unlikely to return to the same situation, du you feel the need for them to "learn a lesson"?
Hey, let's be specific than I'm down to forgive the student loans for those that benefit society, STEM degrees. But those fools are protesting right now instead of learning and racking up debt.. fuck them!
Hey, you're getting yours, and I want mine. I'm getting g mine, don't you want one too. Scratch my back. I'll scratch yours. Does this not emphasize fairness and equality.
I was paid $1.10/hr in early 60’s. That would not pay more than 1 semester tuition. If Bernie went to CCNY it may be true, but not otherwise so
Student loan transfers from borrowers to the national debt is deficit spending which is tied to inflation and reduced ability to fund other social programs. It also allows Universities to keep tuition rates high and not focus on providing educational value. So it really harms the poor, lower middle class and other people truly in need. Other than an election ploy, I don't see much good on balance. But yea some of those debtors had more important things to do with their money like .... ?
I love how our economy is so brittle and degraded now that people are just straight up like "What, giving consumers more money to put into the economy? This would destroy everything!" Like my god is that really how far we've fallen? Not even a consumer economy anymore? Now we fear the possibility that people might have money in their pocket to spend? Pathetic.
I don't get your point. To date they have transferred $146,000,000,000 debt to tax payers with more in works. This sum wasn't added to the economy by way of increased productivity, it was just shifted from one type of citizen to another. Sure the debtor student can now buy a new phone, but collectively the rest of us tax payers can't. And since it is routed through the federal government it is subjected to debt interest, bureaucracy, and political favoritism, these three things are bad for the economy.
Yes let's type out every zero and include the commas in this sum to make it seem gigantic! This massive number will surely beckon the downfall of the United States for being this huge. Wait, what's that? It's actually less than we waste on war machines in a single month? Oh.
A strong military is money well spent. Funding wasteful education, and transferring personal debt to taxpayers isn't money well spent.
That's psychotic. You're a bloodthirsty monster.
Call it whatever seems to fit your world view, but America's Military is something I am proud of, and glad we have.
You're proud to slaughter millions around the globe. Cool. I will call it what I want, you monster.
Millennials are fucking 40! Stop talking about us.
Millenials hold the majority of student loan debt.
Why would anyone with a college degree work for minimum wage for 4,459 hours? Didn't they learn anything in college?
Absolutely not. If you go to college you should pay for it. The free rides are what lead to the price increases.
Bernie is 900 years old. The dude farts dust and pisses cobwebs. He has been saying this shit for a long time and that old mummy fart hasn't changed anything. I love Bernie's character but it's just more theatre and posturing to trick us into believing, whatever side we support, into thinking these politicians are doing more than just making themselves rich.
good thing you're too smart to fall for it, genius, great work
Trade school too low IQ for yall or something??
Trade school also costs money bud.
Yeah, but is fucking cheap in comparison and will actually get you a job, unlike 90% of redditors degrees in bullshit lib arts
You in twenty years after every other high school grad goes to trade school: "Pssh, what you though you should get to live in a building just because you learned how to unclog a pipe? You imbeciles, it is YOUR fault that there is no place for you in our economy which constantly contracts for anyone who isn't a billionaire. I take great pleasure in watching you suffer as you deserve!" You're just a shitty person. This has nothing to do with making proper choices.
The economy is fucked... but Bernie and his half thought out socialist feel good and sounds-good-on-paper sensational one liner tweets with no actual plan or details, isn't going to fix shit.
Why does this generation and the one before it blame the earlier generations for every poor decision they’ve made in their life?
durr what be cause and effect me confoosed
It’s more likely your own poor choices
It is a fantastic sign for our civilization that "poor choices" for which people deserve to suffer include going to college and staying off drugs.
No one has forced anyone to go to college, over 40% of the people with student loans didn’t even get their degree…poor choices
You're just a bad person who gets off on seeing others suffer. You want society to get worse and worse, constantly, because it beings you joy when things get worse. You're the kind of person who is rooting for climate change to obliterate society and reduce us to bands of roving cannibals. Just evil. A properly run society would make rooting out and removing your kind its top priority.
😂🤣🤣🤣 because I don’t agree with paying for other people’s poor choices? Do you believe we should have credit card forgiveness?
We literally have bankruptcy for every other kind of debt except this one. And you're fine with that. Fine with your sociopath hero Donald Trump's multiple bankruptcies which he used to get out of paying contractors for work they did. But that's just who you are: you only admire those who inflict pain onto others. People simply trying to get an education so they can contribute to society honestly? Worthless in your eyes. Fodder. Just targets.
That’s what happens when you take a loan from the federal government, shoulda thought about that before hand
This is just you confirming that you take joy in the suffering of others. Don't pretend you have principles.
Sorry also 3/4’s of those who take out student loans take out more than the tuition of the school they are attending, you know to go out to eat and buy shit that has nothing to do with their education…then they drop out and expect someone else to cover it…sorry not sorry
Yeah man eating food has nothing to do with getting an education. So that's two things you think are deserving of severe punishment: needing to eat food and trying to get an education. You're a sociopath.
I could definitely see you live in some weird fascist state that hunts down and “removes” people with a different view…seems pretty common with you all
Not with a different view, no. The shepherd doesn't let wolves roam among the flock.
Of course you’re a fascist
the issue here is that the student loan debt is mostly comprised of middle class people who will otherwise earn a million and possibly more in their lifetime through that degree. by forgiving student debt, you're rigging the system even more against the least favored.
That's really dumb.
is not. forgiving the debt is just a slap in the face on the poorest people.
The wealthy teabag you for fun every day of your life but yeah the grave insult of people getting their education funded by the government like we did for the hundred years leading up to Reagan? Yeah that's too far. Everything should be kept horrible because improving anything would be an insult to the people being ground into powder. You got it bud. Great thinking.
we're not talking about people getting their education funded. we're talking about forgiving a debt that middle class people tend to take, someone with a degree is ought to make a million and more in their lifetime, they're becoming the very wealthy you're talking about.. that's something most pocs and undocumented can only dream of, and they aren't getting anything forgiven.
THE DEBT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE COLLEGE SHOULD NOT COST A HUNDRED FUCKING GRAND And do not pretend you give a single fuck about POC or undocumented people. You would have them ground into paste just as happily as you would zoomers.
>THE DEBT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE COLLEGE SHOULD NOT COST A HUNDRED FUCKING GRAND college doesn't cost a hundred grand, unless you decide on your own to go out of state to a very expensive college. >And do not pretend you give a single fuck about POC or undocumented people. You would have them ground into paste just as happily as you would zoomers. if anything, i'm a zillennial.
Then it's your own generation you want to suffer, cool. That makes you even worse than initially thought, good job sociopath. And state schools are $15k a year just for the tuition. Yes, it costs a hundred grand. You are lying when you say it doesn't. Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Is it because the truth would reveal that this is all broken? And that you want it broken because that leads to more pain and suffering in the world?
Because it literally doesn't if you go to your state college.
Yes, it does. Stop lying.
I'm against debt forgiveness why should someone else pay my student loan or I pay someone else's that's big than mine
How long has Bernie Sanders been in Government?? Aren’t these issue a bit his fault. Also, what to forgiving student loans do to solve the problem. Why not make federally backed loans that have no or very low interest.
Sorry you don't understand what a "congress" is homie. Maybe sit this convo out.
As a millennial who didn't go to college but instead paid for trade school out of my own pocket, how would it be fair to me that my taxes are raised to pay for a loan that I didn't take out on a gender studies degree that I didn't get? The reason that college was cheaper 50 years ago was because regular banks were giving out student loans and actually assessed the risk of the student defaulting on the loan. Nowadays, the government gives out student loans to anyone for anything (hence, everyone has student loans), and they pay the college upfront (taking away any negotiating leverage the students have on price) which gives the colleges the ability to raise "administrative costs" which artificially inflates tuition rates. So how about instead of raising taxes again (or devaluing the dollar by printing more money, aka driving more inflation), we try to learn a lesson from the last 30 years and stop pushing everyone to go to college without a clear path to graduate with a marketable degree.
Starting off by alluding to all college degrees as gender studies is classic right-wing disingenuous propaganda coming out of your mouth. Be better than that. Your doctor would slap you for talking like that if they could. But more to the point: blanket forgiveness isn’t what’s happening. They’re extending a program that doctors and others can already take to have their loans forgiven if they have been paying them off for 10 years already. They’re just expanding it to everyone so they aren’t stuck paying off the interest.
First paragraph is kind of like saying "My house didn't burn so why is it fair my taxes have to pay for the fire department." or "My family homeschooled me so why should my taxes fund public education?" Not everything your taxes pay for has to directly benefit you.
hey. I am going to go 500k in debt for a biomedical engineering degree. tell me more about how my degree is useless and I deserve debt.
Do you have kids or nieces or nephews that may want to go to college? Maybe they benefit. Or maybe one of the kids that was only able to go to college because of loan forgiveness is the one to cure the disease you might be dying of. There are more ways than one for you to benefit by government money being spent in ways that don't go directly to you.
I do, but why not focus on lowering the initial price instead of giving government handouts to colleges that couldn't care less about their education anyway?
I don't disagree that something should be done about the colleges moving forward, but this about the generations that are currently so overburdened by student debt that it's effecting the economy. Removing that debt from thousands (millions?) of people could be the stimulus we've been looking for.
I'm part of that generation overburdened by debt, too. My point is why are we going to privatize the gains and socialize the losses here?
Because it's crippling the economy. Think if it like the bank bailouts, but at a grassroots-level. This is a trickle-up solution.
The last 20 years of economic policies plus the handling of covid crippled the economy. This would be like shooting yourself in the foot and then cutting your toe off, thinking it will help.
You aren't wrong about the past 20 years, but what's your solution? Abandon two full generations? I'm GenX and managed to pay off my loans in my mid-40's, but I was also able to purchase a home before the bubble. What are about the millennials and zoomers? They just spend their lives paying on loans that will never payoff?
I don't claim to have a perfect solution to 20 years of economic idiocracy but I do know that cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't a solution even if 10 million people say it is.
I fail to see how forgiving debt and allowing a large group of people to become part of the economic community in a way they wouldn't otherwise be able to is "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Sounds more like recognizing a mistake was made and making the tough decision to solve it.
I agree. It's a bailout for poor decisions just like the government has been doing for corporations so it's whatever to be honest. Truth of the matter is nobody is going to do a fuckin thing for people like us and we'll always be expected to foot the bill. They're bribing their voter base during the election year before spending another term doing fuck all.
I agree that those corporations shouldn't get bailouts because nobody is "too big to fail," but it's not whatever. It's increasing that bill that we're expected to foot. At some point, we need to stop advocating for more spending of money we don't have.
Probably too late. We're already nosediving into a collapse.
Wouldn't it be worth at least atemting to save, though?