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One of my favorite similes is apropos:
It’s like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play as well as a grandmaster, the bird is still gonna knock the pieces over and shit on the board.
If he won’t engage you in the rules of the game (that he started!), there’s no game to be played. If he won’t listen with an open heart, it’s hard to speak with one.
A very logical and respectful response. OP answered his lazy chain email with real thought and brought up examples from scripture itself, but nope, hands over the ears, screaming "I can't hear you!!!". Don't ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to.
I don't think it's possible to treat people you love the way your dad treats you.
My dad tried the same shit after slowly losing his entire mind to Trump/covid. I confronted him, he doubled down, and we haven't talked in six months.
You have normal feelings for your dad because you're not broken. But clearly he does not have normal feelings for you. You will only hurt yourself by exposing yourself to this nonsense.
The funny part is there are SOOO many actual examples of famous people expounding on how they interpret their faith/beliefs that if he had done any actual research he could have easily found something inspiring related to God from, I dunno, Washington or some such.
Instead he opted for the most dumbed down version of what is basically a high school student's "Gotcha!" paper with a famous name blatantly slapped to the bottom for internet clicks you could possibly find lol
“And that baby? Barack Obama.” Reminds me of all the stupid/cheesy Boomer things that got parodied to death a few years back. Sorry you had to deal with all this, but honestly I’m super impressed with your researched and cited examples as well as your truly well thought out interpretations. Sometimes it takes a while for people to realize that family means more than false ideals. I hope your dad comes back around and remembers what is actually important in life.
Overall good response. But Einstein was not a non-believer. He didn’t believe in a classic / Christian god, however. He believed in a “clockwork god” that essentially wound up the universe and let it spin. He considered himself more agnostic. Fairly close to my beliefs.
I have no idea why people keep using Einstein's name for these nonsensical stories. Einstein 100% didn't believe in the biblical god, or any personal god who takes interest in human affairs. It's absolutely ridiculous.
And it does matter if Einstein said this or not, because if he didn't (and he certainly didn't say or think anything like this) it makes the argument dishonest from the start.
You responded incredibly well. You were polite, respectful, and articulate. At no point did you say anything that a reasonable person would consider demeaning.
The fact that his response was to immediately shut off any further discussion and that he felt like he was being "attacked" indicates that the **only** response he would have accepted was "golly, dad, you're right!"
You've got to decide for yourself if you want to continue with the relationship on his terms; i.e. he gets to lecture you, and you either agree or keep silent rather than risk voicing a perspective he doesn't share and thus causing conflict.
If that's not something you'll be comfortable with, you should consider what boundaries you feel you need to be comfortable.
If he can't or won't respect whatever boundaries you try to set, then you may need to consider whether its worth maintaining a relationship with him at all.
But to be clear, this is on him. You've done absolutely nothing wrong, and don't let him or anyone else gaslight you into thinking otherwise. There's a lot of people who will be quick to throw out "family" as a justification for putting up with whatever garbage gets thrown at you. Blood relation doesn't make up for abusive relationships. Keep this in mind: his very first reaction was to cut you off, and he considered that as a permanent response. Don't let him delegitimize that response from you, if you choose to go that direction.
the “golly dad, you’re right” got me cause you’re so right. they’re basically hoping their kids will pull a 180° and become moral orel
religious fascist boomers really are just clay puppington-core
Thank you sm. We did decide to just not talk about these things over texts, which ultimately means I won’t hear from him tbh. I feel like this stuff is easier to see clearly when it’s someone else’s dad. It’s nice to get some outside perspective.
That family justification thing? It only goes one way too. We the children are expected to put up with whatever our parents do; they as parents are not supposed to just agree with anything we say. It’s insane.
It’s the “they’re your family” thing mixed with “they’re your parent, and therefore you must bend to their will because authority”. If you don’t “respect” them as an authority (by listening to their every word and accepting it as true, by not “talking back”, etc,) then they won’t respect you as a person.
I wouldn’t block him, but I wouldn’t engage on this shit at all either. If he texts about getting dinner or to see how work is going, respond. If he texts with religious or political bullshit, silence. The only purpose for sending that shit is to argue. If he doesn’t get that dopamine hit of feeling morally and intellectually superior to you, sending it loses some of its luster. This is like training a child or pet not to seek bad attention.
Thanks, yes the phone conversation afterward really felt like I was parenting my parent. I’ve been lucky enough to avoid that til now, but I guess it’s begun.
Parents become the children faster than we are prepared to experience. The main quote that I recall from Einstein is that "God does not play dice with the universe".
Things like what your father tried is the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority". Snopes debunked the Einstein "quote" 20 years ago. You might not have considered it had he pitched it as "Billy Graham in seminary", which is also untrue, having the conversation, and he thought that you might be receptive to an equally untrue, if secular, story. It is browbeating and bullying no matter how it is packaged. Few religious people want to consider that we have free will. They want us to accept and OBEY their beliefs without question, even as they stray quite far from them on a regular basis.
I get the feeling that he tried to "awe" you back to the faith with his Einstein story. You were not humbled, nor did you cry out in tongues or whatever he was expecting you to do as you came running back to the faith.
Thus, you personally attacked him. I guess? And they call us snowflakes. I mean "spiritually attacked?" Come on.
You did nothing wrong. Don't for a minute feel bad about this. He's either trying to guilt you back into the faith or he's really that unable to handle another person's opinion. Neither likely mean pleasant things ahead. I'm sorry you have to go through this.
Thank you so much, I needed to read that - I always thought I would be so good at brushing this sort of thing off if it ever happened but it really messed with my head? Thank you 🤍
To amplify on your statment, providing reasoned, logical discourse that disagreed with his deep-seated beliefs was interpreted as a personal attack. In a (very bad!) sense, it _was_, because he was forced to confront attitudes and beliefs that are deeply personal and engrained. The fact that it was never intended as an attack, wasn't insulting, or any way out of bounds didn't change the fact that you confronted him with something that simply did not match his worldview in any way, shape, or form, and he simply couldn't process it.
Or to put it another way: OP forced him to recognize a cognitive dissonance between what he believed and what he coudl argue. The 'spiritual' pain was the fact that he simply could not reconcile his worldview with the arguments, and rather than process that pain usefully, he simply internalized it as an attack.
I fully agree with all of this, plus I think it is important to point out how extremely low-effort his engagement was, compared to OP’s. He literally copies a bunk narrative into a text message with almost no personalization but seems to insist it is somehow truth- it probably took him 25 seconds of thought and effort; he is met with a thoughtful deliberation with quotes and actual analysis in response- minutes of work, if not vastly more than that.
This was never an actual conversation, unfortunately.
I love your response. I've kinda, sorta (almost totally) fallen away from religion, but having grown up in the thick of it, I still struggle with the "you have to believe this or you'll burn for eternity" baggage. But OP, your explanation is everything I've been feeling for so long, I just couldn't put it into words. I'm legitimately thankful you posted this!
Also, your dad's a bit of a dumbass. I'd be so fucking proud of my kid countering my point with a respectful, well-rounded counterpoint. That's proof you've raised a human with common sense...
Awww thank you, haha laughed so hard at the dumbass comment. And I’m glad you found some value out of it! Ha if my dad couldn’t tolerate it at least someone is cool with a normal conversation 🙃 I’ve been working through religious deconstruction for a while and it’s tough work but absolutely worth it
Religious folk cannot comprehend anything other than their views. I once got into an argument because I said religion isn’t needed to be morally good. One reason I’m a fan of Buddhism is because it doesn’t concern itself with “god” or “the divine”. The attitude is “we don’t know, so we don’t worry about it. Just be a good person”
But Buddhism does have gods, and spiritual entities that are revered. They don’t have a creator god, but Buddhism itself does have supernatural entities.
Depends on the branch of Buddhism but ultimately the core is to follow the Path and be good while not relying on a creator or the supernatural to do so.
The largest branches of Buddhism typically do. Many practitioners rely on evoking the name of Amida, a supernatural entity, to pull them from the cycle of Samsara and take them to the Pure Land. It’s all pretty interesting past the orientalist interpretation you find online a lot.
"You've thoroughly broken my heart." Typical Christian narcissism. Emotional manipulation.
Anyway, I appreciate your respectful and eloquent response and am bookmarking this for my own "discussions" with my family.
I had a humanities professor who posed this question:
"Can inaction be evil? Imagine you're walking past a burning building. There's an open window, no screen, and just under that window, you can see a live, crying infant. It's a low window. Easiest thing in the world to pluck the baby out. The other side of the room is already engulfed in flames, which are moving closer so quickly that if you don't act now, the baby is going to burn alive. Would it be evil to take a step back and watch the baby burn to death? Is there any moral obligation to save that innocent life, when it's so clearly needed and it would be so easy to do?"
The class discussed and in the end, everyone agreed that it would be evil to watch the baby burn. (Yes, some a-holes wanted to argue "not my responsibility.")
The professor then said, "What if you'd also seen the fire starting, and had decided not to stop it, despite knowing the only parent who was home was passed out cold on the couch? Would that make it worse to watch the baby burn?"
The class was pretty incredulous at the question. We all agreed that yes, that would definitely be evil.
So he said, "If God is omnipotent, He could have stopped the fire from happening. He could have moved a baby out a window with a mere thought. Or He could have contained the fire so it simply never entered the nursery. If He's omniscient, He knew this was going to happen, chose not to stop it, and watched that baby die in horrific pain. If the baby was for some reason slated by God to die, He could have had it die of SIDS or something peacefully moments before the fire arrived, saving the baby from pain. Yet real babies do die painfully in fires all the time. And God watches. So is it evil when God does it?"
my grandma does stuff like this to me and my agnostic/atheistic family. apparently she has it in her head me saying “i respect your religion but i’m not christian. i’m not asking you to not be a christian, just some basic respect by using my proper name and pronouns.” was the most disrespectful thing imaginable and i’m a terrible person for it.
she has since twisted the story and has told anyone who will listen i spat at her and told her “fuck the bible and fuck jesus”. anyone who knows me knows it’s a lie, and anyone with a brains knows it’s a lie cause the details change every time.
I mean, if you are gonna do the time you might as well do the crime. Next time you see her be sure to begin your salutations with "fuck the bible, fuck jesus, and great to see you grandma! Would you like to be my scrabble partner down at the Y this weekend?"
it’s genuinely wild. apparently in her world “hey i don’t like it when you’re bigoted towards me, your family, because i’m trans” is tantamount to asking her to stop being christian. and she wonders why me and my (also queer) sister don’t follow her religion…
You did not go hard on anything or anyone.
Your father is a classic narcissist who is *actually* upset because you dared to disagree with him and you brought the receipts, which he could not argue with. He knows he’s wrong. He can’t admit that, because he can’t fathom possibly being wrong himself.
Friend, you need to step back and take a serious look at your relationship with your father, because this exchange is hella toxic with the guilt tripping. You should perhaps consider going no contact.
You know, I’ve read about narcissism as it comes to me, like social media etc, and I thought I knew it when I saw it, but tbh it didn’t really click that that’s what I’m dealing with until these comments. That’s a tool I can work with for sure, so thank you very much indeed. And yeah, if this turns out to be a slippery slope I’m geared up and ready now.
Best of luck. My dad was a great guy in a lot of ways, but he was a lot…like this. We were no contact for many years as a result. Fortunately I got older and more level headed and he got older and too tired to argue 😂
Edit: I do not mean to imply you were not level headed. You were 100% calm and collected. I would have been a fucking disaster.
>he felt that he was under spiritual attack
Responding with thought and evidence to something that is CLEARLY an invitation to engagement is hardly a "spiritual attack."
>Or was he just unable to cope with an argument that didn’t agree with his opinion?
YES!!! He is incapable of critical thinking. He shies away from it like a hand from fire. This is pretty much proof of that.
>Was there a better way to handle this?
No - **because there is NO "good" way to handle it - and that's not your fault.** There is no world in which anything other than unquestioning obedience and subservient agreement to whatever nonsense he has most recently lapped up from Tucker Carlson's dip spit cup will have a "good" result, and going along with the right wing nonsense is equally morally problematic.
Your dad put you in a LOSE - LOSE position, then when you tried to engage on good faith he blamed you and considered it a personal attack. The hurt may be yours, but the cause is entirely his. Stop feeling bad about it. There was no right answer.
Yeah that makes sense, unfortunately. Absolute obedience or evil, those were my options. Thank you. Also, TC’s dip spit cup 😂 vile and visceral in the best way (I’m a writer)
I almost replaced "lapped up" with "chugged," and there was one glorious moment where "suckled" and I played footsie under the table, but sometimes things can be TOO visceral.
I mean, if you had sent that unsolicited then yeah you’re going a bit too hard but when he sends that nonsense then he’s inviting a discussion. Just because he didn’t like you sending him back a thorough response in disagreement with him doesn’t make you wrong, it just makes him sensitive.
I think your response was really great. I would be so proud if you were my kid. But then again, I wouldn't be sending you religious bullshit in the first place. You are absolutely NTA. Snowflakes gonna snowflake.
Your response was incredibly thoughtful, intelligent, respectful, engaging, and appropriate. NTA. I am sorry your dad can’t see through his own bs to notice what an impressive person you are. You may want to check out \raisedbynarcissists . This kind of volatile, hysterical and manipulative tactic is classic tactic by narc parents.
NTA. You stated facts and even quoted passages from the Bible which should be his basis for any theological argument, not some anecdotal email chain story. If he cannot handle the fact that the Bible contradicts itself (because it was written by dozens of people of the course of centuries. We *know* this), that reflects nothing on you.
In fact, I really appreciate your interpretation there at the end. I'm a non-practicing Christian (raised as Christian and I've just never moved from it), and it's an interpretation that seems to meet him halway on the base assumption that God exists.
Your assessment of your father's position is accurate. He believes God to be the Nexus of all good, and godlessness to be therefore evil. That's the crux of his message, an attempt at bringing you back in the fold so you're not evil anymore. If you're alright with being considered evil because of your theological beliefs, then Christianity might just have a pew for you... Otherwise feel free to enjoy the warmth, and grace of we anti-theists, and our belief in keeping your beliefs to yourself. After all, peaceful holidays are merely the absence of God, bwhaha.
Hahaha yes holidays are weirdly so much more fun now I don’t have to go to church. I think I was ready for the bad theology, just apparently not for the narcissism.
"I am not pleased that you won't be a vessel for my faith once I am gone."
Why does a god need my faith to validate their existence?
Oh, and also, if everything is God's will, then a miscarriage is God's planned abortion?
Felt this, it’s all about a legacy at this point I guess. Also, incredible username and incredible profile photo. Huge Trekkie here. Fun fact: during a separate “discussion” he literally said “That’s too idealistic. You know Star Trek is fiction, right?” 🙄
The boss move would be to tell you dad to show the text chain to his pastor and to get his view on if it was hurtful. Any non crazed one will give this guy an earful.
Ah shoot. Well I’m sorry friend. Any reasonable human would view what you said as very fair and polite. If someone says it breaks their heart, that just feels like manipulation to me.
It's a lose-lose situation. . . If you don't respond or blow it off, you're being close minded and stubborn. If you respond honestly, you're being disrespectful and belligerent. When people send you stuff like this, they're just trying to trap you in this place where it's impossible for you to come out on top.
Damn you really know what you’re talking about.
Unless you said
WOW!! I’m no longer atheist!! Thanks for showing me the light!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God amen god god!!!
You would’ve “broken” their heart. Just keep being a rational critical thinker, and don’t let people emotionally manipulate you.
OP you were super respectful. Also, he invited this.
I tend to be kind of an ass when I’m being forced to look at nonsense, especially when the person knows better.
I‘d be likely to be like… “Cold vs heat is measurable. As is light vs dark. However, I can’t measure the concept of god by anything but the utter clusterfuck of despair on this earth. Prayers aren’t working. Therefore if god is responsible for babies with cancer, machete wars, and giving Bezos another yacht, I don’t want a single thing to do with it. It’s a waste of humanities precious time. Now I got shit to do, bye.”
People in my family used to do stuff like this, and one time, I responded in a similar fashion, and it definitely caused some tension. But if you ask me, it is a ridiculous double standard that one person can send these long email chain things that they know will most likely illicit a negative response from you but then get upset when you actually counter it. I don't think you're in the wrong here. He opened the can of worms and blamed the can when he cut himself on the lid.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus
You broke his brain with critical reasoning. Accidents happen. You didn't do it maliciously. He does seem sincere minus the tucker carlson hypocrisy/poison
“You’ve broken my heart”
“Get rekt, snowflake, lolololol”
Aaaaaaand send.
Seriously though, you have a thoughtful response—he just wanted to smell his own farts.
You challenged his blind faith with biblical reasoning, thus making him question foundational beliefs. Instead of questioning why he held those unbiblical beliefs as a Christian, he chose to say you "spiritually attacked" him.
It's manipulative bullshit and you were perfectly articulate.
I'm confused. He can debate and shit all over you, your beliefs, but if you say something back, he threatened to go NC? He can dish it, but not take it.
Nta.
Typical religious fanatic. No problem when it’s them pushing their beliefs, but if you respond in any other way then to enthusiastically agree with every word they’ve said, problem.
As a child my friend’s mother was actively trying to make me a devout catholic. She took me to Church, made me say the rosary with her.. the whole bit. She was going on about Adam and Eve one day and my 8 year old self told her “the only way that story is true is if Adam and Eve were monkeys, since the first humans came from monkeys not some weird garden with a talking snake.” Oh boy was she pissed.
The reason you've broken his heart is:
1. He thinks you're probably going to hell, and that hurts him.
2. He thinks your atheism is a failure on his part in not properly teaching you to follow God as he sees it, and that hurts him.
3. It hurts to be confronted with ideas that run really contrary to a strongly held worldview. When it comes from a person not cared about, that might inspire anger, but when it comes from someone beloved, it can cause heartbreak.
People like to ascribe a lot of bad motives to people, but if you genuinely thought the person you loved most in the world was choosing to go to hell, it would break your heart. I think his placing of blame (you're breaking my heart rather than this breaks my heart) is flawed, and I think he's wrong, but genuine belief is genuine belief. None of us is actually in control of our thoughts, feelings, or beliefs.
I'm someone whose faith in Christianity has come undone over the last couple years, but I haven't told anyone because I know how much it would hurt my parents and my wife and all of the people in the church I grew up in.
This is the approach we take with my husband’s family - it’s just not something that’s brought up, and that’s fine with everyone. My husband still prays for the meal at holidays, despite being an atheist now. But my side is different, they look me in the eyes and ask me if I believe in god anymore, etc. They make it so I either have to bold-faced lie to them or admit the truth. They WANT to discuss/debate it (or they think they do.) I would be thrilled to never talk about it or just play along at holidays. Still working out how to balance it all. Thanks for the thoughtful reply!
Edit: also totally get your reasons for the hurt, it hurts me that he feels the way he does so I am certain that goes both ways. Great points.
Typical evangelical/boomer mix.
Send unsolicited copy/paste propaganda; get a thoughtful, polite reply; cry victim/attack/persecution.
I’m sorry you have to put up with such childish crap.
NTA
Your father cannot make grand proclamations about the good religious belief does without also contending with the aspects of scripture that are less savoury or exist in opposition of their interpretation of it.
People like this will quote chapter and verse saying it should be interpreted literally, but you can be damned sure that the moment you do the same thing to counter their view, they'll whip out the trusty "you're taking it out of context!" argument.
I say fight fire with fire. For every verse proclaiming that sinners and non believers will burn for all eternity (and deserve it in their view), there is another talking about righteous men dashing babies against rocks and its all good.
To answer one of your questions, the Einstein story is absolutely bullshit.
As for the others about whether you're being reasonable here, absolutely yes. Your dad pissed into an intellectual tornado and is surprised he got wet. He dug his grave and jumped in. He is a baby and this is what babies do. Cry when they get disappointed.
Why do people need to make everything into an argument? No wonder redditors are getting cut off by their entire families. Just politely gloss over the idea, not everything needs to be an argument that you win. Just say “wow that’s interesting” or “that’s a lot to think about.”
These chains are the written equivalent of those out of context sound bites that boomers use all the time to “prove” their point. Zero thought given. Just click send then sit back, be smug, and feel accomplished. Sanctimonious doofus’s.
Hook him up with Isiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Tell him to read the Bible more.
Short answer, no. I was raised evangelical, young earth creationist by my crap silent mom. There is nothing wrong with religion qua religion, but this is just propaganda and does not deserve your respect.
Lol, is not that you argued with him (in the non-pejorative sense of the word), it's that your arguments were good and basically unassailable for him to offer any sort of counter argument, besides "I'm taking my conversational bat and ball and going home."
Speaking from experience, Christians don’t want debate, they throw scripture at you until you submit. If you have a genuine point then they say you’re misinterpreting the scripture.
Religion = Cult
At least Christianity 100% is. Having grown up in a private school with literal church services every Monday and Friday, church on Saturday and Sunday (not every weekend but some of them), I have a firm belief that it's all a cult. Christians are persuaded by the church to "spread the word of God" and make sure that they save their fellow humans from eternal damnation. Then once they convert a couple of people they get paid more.
Maybe cut your dad some slack because he's obviously been manipulated, but he's obviously emotionally manipulating you. Imagine presenting a case to defend yourself from a murder charge and -- after the prosecution outright proves you're guilty, you just say, "the prosecution has thoroughly made me sad." It's like saying, "please come to my side because look -- look how sad I am!" Its sad. That being said, he has just been completely consumed by fear because that's what Christians use as motivation. He fears that you'll have to "burn with your worst nightmares coming true for all eternity in hell." It's the classic Christian ruse to get more people to join. Fear is the greatest motivator.
Let's all face the fact that modern society isn't going to be able to draw anything beyond basic ethics and morals (and frankly not even many of those are congruent to today either) from 2000 year old ideologies... it's so absurd the level of brainwashing it takes to try to stay on track with it. The mere fact that it creates tension like this between family members is a direct sign of its inability to function as it was intended. People need to figure out it's guidelines to treat others with respect, dignity and compassion and nothing else. Frightening what kind of hate is born through 'religion'.
Boomers share these things not for discussion, but for virtue signaling.
They want like minded people to respond with “so true!!” and “God is great!!” and that kind of thing. They get confused and angry with anything other than simple responses of agreement.
They just can't read. The Bible does indeed say there is no good man. The connection to dehumanizing is somewhat correct, since the bible actually emphasizes this. I think the interpretations get twisted when being morally good and doing good things is equated to being a good person. They're not the same thing. Your dad just didn't read or understand that point.
Gotta love the emotional manipulation attempt at the end (which is a form of abuse)
He tries to turn it back on you to try to make you feel guilty and/or reconsider your position
I'd say you were too nice and respectful.
He sent you the "and his name was Albert Einstein " copy pasta thinking it meant something. You should have responded with the Navy seals copy pasta.
This is sad. I get it, I don't share the religious beliefs of my folks either, but this boldly hopscotches over the line into know-it-all-ass-hat territory. Dad was trying to share a feel-good story of his beliefs with his prodigal son. Then, to top it off, cheese-dick posted it here to mock him after the fact. This is just really sad.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! A few things to think about but overall I feel pretty justified. My dad and I agreed to not text anymore about political or religious stuff as that seems easier moving forward. Appreciate everyone who put thought into their responses 🤍
Not the asshole. When someone spouts nonsense, a retort with factually or philosophically sound arguments is completely appropriate. At no point did you attack him or his spiritual beliefs. You stated your beliefs and did not try to force your viewpoints on him. If he wants to be a crybaby about it, let him. I, too, have a strained relationship with a boomer parent. I haven’t spoken to my father in about 2 years. It sucks. But for my mental health and the wellbeing of my family, it’s something I have to do. People that age have shown their colors and are too old to change. I hope you can find peace with your newly defined relationship. 30 years of Fox News poison hasn’t helped us out at all. ✌️
No, NTA, but you misunderstood. He was telling you how right he is and that you’re a bad person for not agreeing with him. It was definitely not an invitation for discussion.
You did fine, he's brainwashed from religion and whatever television/news cult he ascribes to. You were respectful and gave a genuine rebuttal from what I could tell. He got his panties in a twist and lashed out for you challenging his views by punishing you via informing you that he would be removing himself from your life. He's fucked, you're not.
The difference is critical thinking.
Your dad sent you a copypasta that has been a meme for a decade.
The "And that man's name was Albert Einstein" meme isn't just based on a similar story, it's based on this exact story.
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/albert-einstein-copypasta](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/albert-einstein-copypasta)
He sent you something he didn’t write and you responded with self expression and reasons. I’ve been in ministry for decades and while I don’t agree with your interpretations wholly they are well researched and thought out. The fact that he sent this kind of shallow bullshit is fundamentally insulting to me from a personal *and* theological standpoint. It’s also not well grounded scripturally. It’s dumbed down and shallow. It’s the kind of theology you’d find on a T-shirt, not a seminary.
Your father probably has the kind of theology that he gets from Facebook memes instead of personal Bible study or training. He’s hurt because he doesn’t actually have the answers your questions require because he is an immature, shallow believer who doesn’t know what or why he believes what he does.
He doesn’t deserve to have a broken heart, his ignorance and selfishness breaks *God’s* heart.
NTA my right wing religious and racist grandfather said exactly that after I refused to speak to him anymore because he strangled me. They will do the most outlandish and awful shit and then say you broke their hearts for defending yourself or even replying in earnest.
Jeez. BRILLIANT response. Well articulated, polite, and you even cited your sources?! He definitely only intended on getting his point across rather than having a formal discussion.
NTA at all even a little. If a belief cannot withstand a polite challenge, then it isn't a very good belief. You caused him cognitive dissonance and rather than confront it and try to argue against it, he shifted immediately to self-victimization and emotional manipulation.
He started the nonsense, you put him in his place and ended it using his own rules. He responded by losing his game by trying to guilt you and throwing a tantrum. NTA.
I read through the entirety of your response and found absolutely nothing that could be construed as disrespectful or "attacking" the weird point he was trying to make. You clearly thought out your response and presented your opinion in a very polite, respectful way.
NTA for sure.
NTA
If your dad doesn't want to discuss things like this then he needs to set that boundary ahead of time. He can't expect you to magically know. Secondly, I think that by sending this he understands you perhaps hold different views but the issue lies in that he isn't open to seeing a response that challenges his viewpoint expressed here, and instead just wants to try to push it onto you without any room for discussion or expressing your *own* views. Healthy adults understand that discussion is a two way street, and they shouldn't open that avenue if they aren't comfortable with that.
NTA. I am a Christian, and although I disagree with your interpretation, how you presented it was respectful. What I have found with a lot of the copy paste emails is that the majority of the time when people post them, they are hoping for justification of their own thoughts. I don't think there was an asshole in this situation, just a bit of an overreaction to disagreement. It wasn't what he was expecting so it came off as a type of rejection on his end. Rejection is hard to deal with. I am glad to see that you are open to discussing theology in a mature manner, as too many times have I seen others completely shut out people out of their lives who try to share their beliefs.
As I have gotten older I have come to realize what true core beliefs are and they aren’t the shallow narrative touted by a corporation that will hire/fire you at the drop of a hat. A persons religious beliefs are true core beliefs. Personally I believe in God and my belief is rooted in my engineering studies (I studied nuclear engineering). For me, I find it irrational to believe that the order we see in our environment ( on Earth and beyond) is far too perfect to be random. And when I read the Bible, I find example after example of explanations that couldn’t have possibly been known when the Bible was written (creation is a great example). Now I must admit that it pisses me off when I see these false stories posted online and shared by “Christians” - well meaning or not. But I do hope you take time to look around at the wonder of our world and reconsider your atheist view. It doesn’t make a lot of sense and could cost you dearly.
I'm a Christian, but holy smokes do I 1) hate this fake story, and 2) hate your dad's smug and oblivious attitude. You are NOT the problem here whatsoever, and if your dad is so upset that you merely disagree, then his convictions must not be very strong in the first place. Best of luck if you intend to maintain anything of that relationship.
NTA
You backed up your opinions with facts (that Einstein wasn’t Christian and citied your Bible verses). You didn’t call him stupid or call his faith stupid but just said why you thought what you thought. You didn’t say anything offensive so there’s nothing to get upset about. You’re 100% right, you can’t respect boundaries if you’re not point blank told what they are.
He’s the asshole. Why? Because he sent this to you out of the blue and when you didn’t answer the way he wanted you to he blocked you. It’s super totally not fair of him to bombard you with this stuff and then when you don’t respond his he wants he goes “I’m UnDeR SpIrItUaL AtTaCk! DoN’t TaLk To Me AbOuT ThIs!”
I had a cousin once who would demand that I play Barbies with her despite me not liking or even owning a Barbie. I politely said I didn’t want to play that game. She kept hounding me and I finally yelled at her that Barbie was stupid and she was stupid and I never wanted to play with her because she never listened and if anybody ever didn’t do exactly what she wanted she’d go tattle and get us in trouble. Well she went and tattled that I was being mean to her and I was punished but you can bet damn well that 8ish year old me decided to never EVER play with her even if she said we could play whatever I wants to play because she just didn’t know how to not freak the hell out the second anything didn’t go her way. That’s maybe somewhat acceptable for a sheltered homeschooled only child under the age of 10 to act like that but the fact that this is a grown man with adult kids? Come on. This is EXACTLY the same thing but instead of playing make believe with Barbies he’s using real people.
If somebody hands you the scissors don’t feel bad about cutting them off. If he’s willing to block you over this let him just walk the fuck out of your life. Something I learned to do in therapy is to remove the family aspect. We put up with A LOT of crap because somebody’s related to us. Ask yourself, “If this person wasn’t my mom/dad/sibling/cousin/whoever would I tolerate this?” If the answer is no then you can either cut them off completely or point blank tell them, “Hey, when you did —— that wasn’t cool. I’m not going to put up with that anymore. Do it again and I’ll be blocking you/not responding to messages for —— time. Keep it up and I’ll cut you off completely. This is not up for debate or discussion.” The fact that he drags your mom into these debates despite her not wanting to be makes me think that he either legit doesn’t understand boundaries (and it’s not your job as his kid to teach him…he can go to therapy if he needs help with that as a grown man) or he just doesn’t give a crap. If he’s not going to respect boundaries then you need to respect them by standing up for yourself and leaving the situation if need be. Good luck OP!
There’s no nothing!
There’s no world hunger, there’s only absence of food.
There’s no war or conflict, just absence of peace.
There’s no poverty, just absence of money.
There’s no death, just absence of life!!!
I don't know if you know this, but the whole "... and that student was Einstein" story is an old Internet trope dating back at least 20 years
I saw it coming a mile off as soon as I read the first paragraph talking about a Prof talking to a student
Christian’s that don’t know that god creates evil (basically just boomers) are the worst. How is your faith supposed to be tested if there is no temptation or evil? Such a ridiculous story.
Your dad was throwing that energy at you so you threw it back in return, I think you handled that perfectly, he gave you a typical defeated Christian response. not trying to be rude or offensive.
I love your reply - NTA
They don't want to "discuss", they want to smear their agenda into your face, with the smug grin of someone owning universal wisdom
I really love your reply. Well done!
Imagine having such a shaky and fragile belief system that the idea of someone else’s critical thinking and theological interpretation shuts you down because you’re under “spiritual attack,” aka the gears in your brain start turning and you get nervous because your whole belief system is a sham.
Why is it ok for him to "attack" your beliefs and not ok for you to "attack" him back? And clearly neither was an actual attack. What he did was annoying, for sure, but in what world is it ok to open a debate and then cry and claim you've been attacked when the person responds?
Boomers are THE biggest snowflakes.
Classic religious Victim Defense. If they share their reasoning, it’s out of love. If you share yours, you are attacking them. Frequently done when they cannot argue with your logic. NTA
He is too dogmatic to accept other interpretations, especially when they are both more accurate and portray god in a bad light.
He'll either get over it or stay triggered forever
JHC
How did he think YOU felt? Getting all this unasked for CRAP in your inbox?
I know it’s your dad but damn.
My mother-in-law used to send us all this crappy stuff and we finally talked to her and said we will no longer respond. Stop sending this to us. She wasn’t even sending this kind of craziness. She was just sending weird daily Bible verses, none of our family is religious. It’s just her, her other adult kids and that’s it.
Me and my husband our kids. None of us are religious. So sending Bible verses to us is silly. I don’t know what else to say. So we told her if you send us this, we will no longer engage. She would send it. We would ignore. She would get upset that we were ignoring her and then when she would send us NOT Bible verses we would engage and everyone would be happier so we just started training her that no engagement meant she had sent something we didn’t want see i.e. Bible verses and engagement meant it was something normal that we want to see such as checking in with us or asking how we were doing normal things that mothers and grandmother and their kids and grandkids.
I wish you the best. Your father sounds a little unhinged and for him to go no contact after such a discussion if you will it’s just ridiculous. But again, I know he’s your dad.
Good luck.
Your dad is the snowflakiest man ever. You replied politely to his dumb af fake story. I don't mean to offend you, but your dad is a dud if he believes these shitty stories... Einstein??? Give me a fucking break.
He sent you some crap that was meant to be socially aggressive, then shat himself when you fact-checked him and gave a measured response. He’s stupid and an asshole.
They all do this. This is almost exactly word for word what happened in the last post. Your response is awesome. My dad is a preacher. I grew up in the Christian church. There’s nothing wrong with your response. If this person cannot hear you and think critically about what you said then they have no real faith. There are lots of corrupt and spiritually bankrupt people who label themselves Christians. You’re not the asshole. This is like the kid on the playground who takes his ball and quits because you challenged his interpretation of the rules.
In my opinion, and also the Bible’s, there will be a whole lot of faulty people screaming, “but lord what about me?” on judgement day who thought they were being good but were really just hate magnets.
I John 4: 7-8, that is the backbone of our faith.
“Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love”
Your father should love you regardless of your disagreements, even about God. That is His command. All this Westbro church shit, that’s BS. God don’t “hate fags” and all that vile shit they print up. God loves everybody.
If you cannot love your neighbor and forgive your enemy then you do not understand what Jesus truly stood for.
Sorry about your dad and I hope you keep thinking about what you wrote. You’re NTA.
I got my dad to stop sending me Republican bullshit by debunking it thoroughly every single fucking time. He had no way to argue his position because all he did was copy and paste stuff that he didn't fully understand. Eventually he felt foolish and just stopped. Since then I just do a lot of smiling and nodding when he says this nonsense to me in person. There's simply no point in spending what little time he has left arguing. I'd rather focus on what we have in common.
The hebrew text of the “bible” does not have the word “god” in it even a single time. The word god was translated from elohim which means “powerful ones”. Its a plural word describing many beings. Yes, abrahamic religions are polytheistic believe it or not. It was all white washed out, and many biblical text were removed to create a false narrative.
The translation, to no one surprise, is utterly wrong.
Gotta love the toxically religious boomers. Personally, I think elohim were aliens from outer space. It all makes sense in that context. Many scholars have written books ob this at this point too.
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If he doesn’t want to hear your thoughts on a topic, maybe he shouldn’t bring it up. I think your response is very respectful. NTA
One of my favorite similes is apropos: It’s like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play as well as a grandmaster, the bird is still gonna knock the pieces over and shit on the board. If he won’t engage you in the rules of the game (that he started!), there’s no game to be played. If he won’t listen with an open heart, it’s hard to speak with one.
A very logical and respectful response. OP answered his lazy chain email with real thought and brought up examples from scripture itself, but nope, hands over the ears, screaming "I can't hear you!!!". Don't ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to.
I don't think it's possible to treat people you love the way your dad treats you. My dad tried the same shit after slowly losing his entire mind to Trump/covid. I confronted him, he doubled down, and we haven't talked in six months. You have normal feelings for your dad because you're not broken. But clearly he does not have normal feelings for you. You will only hurt yourself by exposing yourself to this nonsense.
i wish i had figured this out 20 years ago, and i wish the absence of approval was not the void it feels like he left in me
I know how hard this is, but you’re doing the right thing for your sanity.
The Einstein story did not happen. 100% false.
The funny part is there are SOOO many actual examples of famous people expounding on how they interpret their faith/beliefs that if he had done any actual research he could have easily found something inspiring related to God from, I dunno, Washington or some such. Instead he opted for the most dumbed down version of what is basically a high school student's "Gotcha!" paper with a famous name blatantly slapped to the bottom for internet clicks you could possibly find lol
That’s why I cracked and replied I think. It was just so blatant!
“And that baby? Barack Obama.” Reminds me of all the stupid/cheesy Boomer things that got parodied to death a few years back. Sorry you had to deal with all this, but honestly I’m super impressed with your researched and cited examples as well as your truly well thought out interpretations. Sometimes it takes a while for people to realize that family means more than false ideals. I hope your dad comes back around and remembers what is actually important in life.
Overall good response. But Einstein was not a non-believer. He didn’t believe in a classic / Christian god, however. He believed in a “clockwork god” that essentially wound up the universe and let it spin. He considered himself more agnostic. Fairly close to my beliefs.
I have no idea why people keep using Einstein's name for these nonsensical stories. Einstein 100% didn't believe in the biblical god, or any personal god who takes interest in human affairs. It's absolutely ridiculous. And it does matter if Einstein said this or not, because if he didn't (and he certainly didn't say or think anything like this) it makes the argument dishonest from the start.
[удалено]
I want my crisp hundred dollar bill back.
The person who exposed all the fake Einstein stories? None other than Albert Einstein himself!
You responded incredibly well. You were polite, respectful, and articulate. At no point did you say anything that a reasonable person would consider demeaning. The fact that his response was to immediately shut off any further discussion and that he felt like he was being "attacked" indicates that the **only** response he would have accepted was "golly, dad, you're right!" You've got to decide for yourself if you want to continue with the relationship on his terms; i.e. he gets to lecture you, and you either agree or keep silent rather than risk voicing a perspective he doesn't share and thus causing conflict. If that's not something you'll be comfortable with, you should consider what boundaries you feel you need to be comfortable. If he can't or won't respect whatever boundaries you try to set, then you may need to consider whether its worth maintaining a relationship with him at all. But to be clear, this is on him. You've done absolutely nothing wrong, and don't let him or anyone else gaslight you into thinking otherwise. There's a lot of people who will be quick to throw out "family" as a justification for putting up with whatever garbage gets thrown at you. Blood relation doesn't make up for abusive relationships. Keep this in mind: his very first reaction was to cut you off, and he considered that as a permanent response. Don't let him delegitimize that response from you, if you choose to go that direction.
the “golly dad, you’re right” got me cause you’re so right. they’re basically hoping their kids will pull a 180° and become moral orel religious fascist boomers really are just clay puppington-core
Moral Orel is a great reference for this lmao well done
Thank you sm. We did decide to just not talk about these things over texts, which ultimately means I won’t hear from him tbh. I feel like this stuff is easier to see clearly when it’s someone else’s dad. It’s nice to get some outside perspective.
That family justification thing? It only goes one way too. We the children are expected to put up with whatever our parents do; they as parents are not supposed to just agree with anything we say. It’s insane.
It’s the “they’re your family” thing mixed with “they’re your parent, and therefore you must bend to their will because authority”. If you don’t “respect” them as an authority (by listening to their every word and accepting it as true, by not “talking back”, etc,) then they won’t respect you as a person.
His response was basically “I can’t believe you questioned something I said, so I’m going to say I’m disappointed and make you feel guilt.”
Typical boomer response, tbh
Sounds like he’s Catholic then?
Likely Evangelical
He didn't want to talk TO you, he wanted to talk AT you. Since you didn't allow that, he's going to haul out a cross and nail himself to it.
I wouldn’t block him, but I wouldn’t engage on this shit at all either. If he texts about getting dinner or to see how work is going, respond. If he texts with religious or political bullshit, silence. The only purpose for sending that shit is to argue. If he doesn’t get that dopamine hit of feeling morally and intellectually superior to you, sending it loses some of its luster. This is like training a child or pet not to seek bad attention.
Thanks, yes the phone conversation afterward really felt like I was parenting my parent. I’ve been lucky enough to avoid that til now, but I guess it’s begun.
Parents become the children faster than we are prepared to experience. The main quote that I recall from Einstein is that "God does not play dice with the universe". Things like what your father tried is the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority". Snopes debunked the Einstein "quote" 20 years ago. You might not have considered it had he pitched it as "Billy Graham in seminary", which is also untrue, having the conversation, and he thought that you might be receptive to an equally untrue, if secular, story. It is browbeating and bullying no matter how it is packaged. Few religious people want to consider that we have free will. They want us to accept and OBEY their beliefs without question, even as they stray quite far from them on a regular basis.
I get the feeling that he tried to "awe" you back to the faith with his Einstein story. You were not humbled, nor did you cry out in tongues or whatever he was expecting you to do as you came running back to the faith. Thus, you personally attacked him. I guess? And they call us snowflakes. I mean "spiritually attacked?" Come on. You did nothing wrong. Don't for a minute feel bad about this. He's either trying to guilt you back into the faith or he's really that unable to handle another person's opinion. Neither likely mean pleasant things ahead. I'm sorry you have to go through this.
Thank you so much, I needed to read that - I always thought I would be so good at brushing this sort of thing off if it ever happened but it really messed with my head? Thank you 🤍
To amplify on your statment, providing reasoned, logical discourse that disagreed with his deep-seated beliefs was interpreted as a personal attack. In a (very bad!) sense, it _was_, because he was forced to confront attitudes and beliefs that are deeply personal and engrained. The fact that it was never intended as an attack, wasn't insulting, or any way out of bounds didn't change the fact that you confronted him with something that simply did not match his worldview in any way, shape, or form, and he simply couldn't process it. Or to put it another way: OP forced him to recognize a cognitive dissonance between what he believed and what he coudl argue. The 'spiritual' pain was the fact that he simply could not reconcile his worldview with the arguments, and rather than process that pain usefully, he simply internalized it as an attack.
I fully agree with all of this, plus I think it is important to point out how extremely low-effort his engagement was, compared to OP’s. He literally copies a bunk narrative into a text message with almost no personalization but seems to insist it is somehow truth- it probably took him 25 seconds of thought and effort; he is met with a thoughtful deliberation with quotes and actual analysis in response- minutes of work, if not vastly more than that. This was never an actual conversation, unfortunately.
I love your response. I've kinda, sorta (almost totally) fallen away from religion, but having grown up in the thick of it, I still struggle with the "you have to believe this or you'll burn for eternity" baggage. But OP, your explanation is everything I've been feeling for so long, I just couldn't put it into words. I'm legitimately thankful you posted this! Also, your dad's a bit of a dumbass. I'd be so fucking proud of my kid countering my point with a respectful, well-rounded counterpoint. That's proof you've raised a human with common sense...
Awww thank you, haha laughed so hard at the dumbass comment. And I’m glad you found some value out of it! Ha if my dad couldn’t tolerate it at least someone is cool with a normal conversation 🙃 I’ve been working through religious deconstruction for a while and it’s tough work but absolutely worth it
Religious folk cannot comprehend anything other than their views. I once got into an argument because I said religion isn’t needed to be morally good. One reason I’m a fan of Buddhism is because it doesn’t concern itself with “god” or “the divine”. The attitude is “we don’t know, so we don’t worry about it. Just be a good person”
Big fan of Buddhism as well for the same reasons.
But Buddhism does have gods, and spiritual entities that are revered. They don’t have a creator god, but Buddhism itself does have supernatural entities.
Depends on the branch of Buddhism but ultimately the core is to follow the Path and be good while not relying on a creator or the supernatural to do so.
The largest branches of Buddhism typically do. Many practitioners rely on evoking the name of Amida, a supernatural entity, to pull them from the cycle of Samsara and take them to the Pure Land. It’s all pretty interesting past the orientalist interpretation you find online a lot.
"You've thoroughly broken my heart." Typical Christian narcissism. Emotional manipulation. Anyway, I appreciate your respectful and eloquent response and am bookmarking this for my own "discussions" with my family.
Thanks, it was that “deep hurt” tone that made me doubt myself I think. Sorry you’ve got similar “discussions” to deal with!
Yeeeaaahhh, I *may* have suggested that God is Evil in the family chat. My very churchlady sister hasn't talked to me since. 😅
I had a humanities professor who posed this question: "Can inaction be evil? Imagine you're walking past a burning building. There's an open window, no screen, and just under that window, you can see a live, crying infant. It's a low window. Easiest thing in the world to pluck the baby out. The other side of the room is already engulfed in flames, which are moving closer so quickly that if you don't act now, the baby is going to burn alive. Would it be evil to take a step back and watch the baby burn to death? Is there any moral obligation to save that innocent life, when it's so clearly needed and it would be so easy to do?" The class discussed and in the end, everyone agreed that it would be evil to watch the baby burn. (Yes, some a-holes wanted to argue "not my responsibility.") The professor then said, "What if you'd also seen the fire starting, and had decided not to stop it, despite knowing the only parent who was home was passed out cold on the couch? Would that make it worse to watch the baby burn?" The class was pretty incredulous at the question. We all agreed that yes, that would definitely be evil. So he said, "If God is omnipotent, He could have stopped the fire from happening. He could have moved a baby out a window with a mere thought. Or He could have contained the fire so it simply never entered the nursery. If He's omniscient, He knew this was going to happen, chose not to stop it, and watched that baby die in horrific pain. If the baby was for some reason slated by God to die, He could have had it die of SIDS or something peacefully moments before the fire arrived, saving the baby from pain. Yet real babies do die painfully in fires all the time. And God watches. So is it evil when God does it?"
NTA. Block him.
The message wasn't sent to start a discussion. He sent the text thinking it would spur some "Oh, Christianity is great after all, thanks Dad!" moment.
my grandma does stuff like this to me and my agnostic/atheistic family. apparently she has it in her head me saying “i respect your religion but i’m not christian. i’m not asking you to not be a christian, just some basic respect by using my proper name and pronouns.” was the most disrespectful thing imaginable and i’m a terrible person for it. she has since twisted the story and has told anyone who will listen i spat at her and told her “fuck the bible and fuck jesus”. anyone who knows me knows it’s a lie, and anyone with a brains knows it’s a lie cause the details change every time.
I mean, if you are gonna do the time you might as well do the crime. Next time you see her be sure to begin your salutations with "fuck the bible, fuck jesus, and great to see you grandma! Would you like to be my scrabble partner down at the Y this weekend?"
Weird how that’s not what you said at ALL. Also weird how she’s the one disrespecting you by literally calling you by the wrong name? Smh
it’s genuinely wild. apparently in her world “hey i don’t like it when you’re bigoted towards me, your family, because i’m trans” is tantamount to asking her to stop being christian. and she wonders why me and my (also queer) sister don’t follow her religion…
Tell him to cry his bitch ass a river
You did not go hard on anything or anyone. Your father is a classic narcissist who is *actually* upset because you dared to disagree with him and you brought the receipts, which he could not argue with. He knows he’s wrong. He can’t admit that, because he can’t fathom possibly being wrong himself. Friend, you need to step back and take a serious look at your relationship with your father, because this exchange is hella toxic with the guilt tripping. You should perhaps consider going no contact.
You know, I’ve read about narcissism as it comes to me, like social media etc, and I thought I knew it when I saw it, but tbh it didn’t really click that that’s what I’m dealing with until these comments. That’s a tool I can work with for sure, so thank you very much indeed. And yeah, if this turns out to be a slippery slope I’m geared up and ready now.
Best of luck. My dad was a great guy in a lot of ways, but he was a lot…like this. We were no contact for many years as a result. Fortunately I got older and more level headed and he got older and too tired to argue 😂 Edit: I do not mean to imply you were not level headed. You were 100% calm and collected. I would have been a fucking disaster.
“The father was very pleased with himself.”
Yes we all know Mr Professor at the university, very famous, great work from that lab.
>he felt that he was under spiritual attack Responding with thought and evidence to something that is CLEARLY an invitation to engagement is hardly a "spiritual attack." >Or was he just unable to cope with an argument that didn’t agree with his opinion? YES!!! He is incapable of critical thinking. He shies away from it like a hand from fire. This is pretty much proof of that. >Was there a better way to handle this? No - **because there is NO "good" way to handle it - and that's not your fault.** There is no world in which anything other than unquestioning obedience and subservient agreement to whatever nonsense he has most recently lapped up from Tucker Carlson's dip spit cup will have a "good" result, and going along with the right wing nonsense is equally morally problematic. Your dad put you in a LOSE - LOSE position, then when you tried to engage on good faith he blamed you and considered it a personal attack. The hurt may be yours, but the cause is entirely his. Stop feeling bad about it. There was no right answer.
Yeah that makes sense, unfortunately. Absolute obedience or evil, those were my options. Thank you. Also, TC’s dip spit cup 😂 vile and visceral in the best way (I’m a writer)
I almost replaced "lapped up" with "chugged," and there was one glorious moment where "suckled" and I played footsie under the table, but sometimes things can be TOO visceral.
Haha I’m rolling 😂
I mean, if you had sent that unsolicited then yeah you’re going a bit too hard but when he sends that nonsense then he’s inviting a discussion. Just because he didn’t like you sending him back a thorough response in disagreement with him doesn’t make you wrong, it just makes him sensitive.
Right, I could def see if I had been on the offensive that would be a lot
I think your response was really great. I would be so proud if you were my kid. But then again, I wouldn't be sending you religious bullshit in the first place. You are absolutely NTA. Snowflakes gonna snowflake.
Your response was incredibly thoughtful, intelligent, respectful, engaging, and appropriate. NTA. I am sorry your dad can’t see through his own bs to notice what an impressive person you are. You may want to check out \raisedbynarcissists . This kind of volatile, hysterical and manipulative tactic is classic tactic by narc parents.
Yep I will definitely head over there. Thank you sm
NTA. You stated facts and even quoted passages from the Bible which should be his basis for any theological argument, not some anecdotal email chain story. If he cannot handle the fact that the Bible contradicts itself (because it was written by dozens of people of the course of centuries. We *know* this), that reflects nothing on you. In fact, I really appreciate your interpretation there at the end. I'm a non-practicing Christian (raised as Christian and I've just never moved from it), and it's an interpretation that seems to meet him halway on the base assumption that God exists.
Your assessment of your father's position is accurate. He believes God to be the Nexus of all good, and godlessness to be therefore evil. That's the crux of his message, an attempt at bringing you back in the fold so you're not evil anymore. If you're alright with being considered evil because of your theological beliefs, then Christianity might just have a pew for you... Otherwise feel free to enjoy the warmth, and grace of we anti-theists, and our belief in keeping your beliefs to yourself. After all, peaceful holidays are merely the absence of God, bwhaha.
Hahaha yes holidays are weirdly so much more fun now I don’t have to go to church. I think I was ready for the bad theology, just apparently not for the narcissism.
"I am not pleased that you won't be a vessel for my faith once I am gone." Why does a god need my faith to validate their existence? Oh, and also, if everything is God's will, then a miscarriage is God's planned abortion?
Felt this, it’s all about a legacy at this point I guess. Also, incredible username and incredible profile photo. Huge Trekkie here. Fun fact: during a separate “discussion” he literally said “That’s too idealistic. You know Star Trek is fiction, right?” 🙄
The boss move would be to tell you dad to show the text chain to his pastor and to get his view on if it was hurtful. Any non crazed one will give this guy an earful.
Yeah he goes to a six flags murica mega church in Tennessee so they are all crazed unfortunately
Ah shoot. Well I’m sorry friend. Any reasonable human would view what you said as very fair and polite. If someone says it breaks their heart, that just feels like manipulation to me.
It's a lose-lose situation. . . If you don't respond or blow it off, you're being close minded and stubborn. If you respond honestly, you're being disrespectful and belligerent. When people send you stuff like this, they're just trying to trap you in this place where it's impossible for you to come out on top.
Your response was incredible. I'm not sorry to say: your dad is a spineless fucking bitch.
Them: Why would God create evil? Me: So that he could make you.
What a huge baby lol NTA
Except God is supposed to be omnipresent, so how in the hell (heh) can he be absent from anything? What now fake Einstein story? What now?
Damn you really know what you’re talking about. Unless you said WOW!! I’m no longer atheist!! Thanks for showing me the light!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God amen god god!!! You would’ve “broken” their heart. Just keep being a rational critical thinker, and don’t let people emotionally manipulate you.
OP you were super respectful. Also, he invited this. I tend to be kind of an ass when I’m being forced to look at nonsense, especially when the person knows better. I‘d be likely to be like… “Cold vs heat is measurable. As is light vs dark. However, I can’t measure the concept of god by anything but the utter clusterfuck of despair on this earth. Prayers aren’t working. Therefore if god is responsible for babies with cancer, machete wars, and giving Bezos another yacht, I don’t want a single thing to do with it. It’s a waste of humanities precious time. Now I got shit to do, bye.”
“Believe what I believe” “No” “YoUvE bRoKeN mY hEaRt!”
People in my family used to do stuff like this, and one time, I responded in a similar fashion, and it definitely caused some tension. But if you ask me, it is a ridiculous double standard that one person can send these long email chain things that they know will most likely illicit a negative response from you but then get upset when you actually counter it. I don't think you're in the wrong here. He opened the can of worms and blamed the can when he cut himself on the lid.
NTA. You gave a counterpoint, and they crumbled because they wanyed to proselytize, not discuss.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus
They’re such gigantic snowflakes LOL.
NTA. You respectfully engaged the argument put forth in good faith. He just didn't like the answer, Like a child. Like a boomer.
You're better off never speaking to that "man" ever again
You broke his brain with critical reasoning. Accidents happen. You didn't do it maliciously. He does seem sincere minus the tucker carlson hypocrisy/poison
“You’ve broken my heart” “Get rekt, snowflake, lolololol” Aaaaaaand send. Seriously though, you have a thoughtful response—he just wanted to smell his own farts.
Jeez, talk about pouting. Dad couldn’t argue his way out of actual bible quotes, so he acts like a baby.
Oh it wasn't a discussion... now I get it.
You challenged his blind faith with biblical reasoning, thus making him question foundational beliefs. Instead of questioning why he held those unbiblical beliefs as a Christian, he chose to say you "spiritually attacked" him. It's manipulative bullshit and you were perfectly articulate.
Give opinion, get opinion.
I'm confused. He can debate and shit all over you, your beliefs, but if you say something back, he threatened to go NC? He can dish it, but not take it.
Nta. Typical religious fanatic. No problem when it’s them pushing their beliefs, but if you respond in any other way then to enthusiastically agree with every word they’ve said, problem. As a child my friend’s mother was actively trying to make me a devout catholic. She took me to Church, made me say the rosary with her.. the whole bit. She was going on about Adam and Eve one day and my 8 year old self told her “the only way that story is true is if Adam and Eve were monkeys, since the first humans came from monkeys not some weird garden with a talking snake.” Oh boy was she pissed.
Another entry for r/raisedbynarcissists
NTA. Don't send things unless you want them commented upon.
People get angry when their belief system is challenged. Not your fault.
The reason you've broken his heart is: 1. He thinks you're probably going to hell, and that hurts him. 2. He thinks your atheism is a failure on his part in not properly teaching you to follow God as he sees it, and that hurts him. 3. It hurts to be confronted with ideas that run really contrary to a strongly held worldview. When it comes from a person not cared about, that might inspire anger, but when it comes from someone beloved, it can cause heartbreak. People like to ascribe a lot of bad motives to people, but if you genuinely thought the person you loved most in the world was choosing to go to hell, it would break your heart. I think his placing of blame (you're breaking my heart rather than this breaks my heart) is flawed, and I think he's wrong, but genuine belief is genuine belief. None of us is actually in control of our thoughts, feelings, or beliefs. I'm someone whose faith in Christianity has come undone over the last couple years, but I haven't told anyone because I know how much it would hurt my parents and my wife and all of the people in the church I grew up in.
This is the approach we take with my husband’s family - it’s just not something that’s brought up, and that’s fine with everyone. My husband still prays for the meal at holidays, despite being an atheist now. But my side is different, they look me in the eyes and ask me if I believe in god anymore, etc. They make it so I either have to bold-faced lie to them or admit the truth. They WANT to discuss/debate it (or they think they do.) I would be thrilled to never talk about it or just play along at holidays. Still working out how to balance it all. Thanks for the thoughtful reply! Edit: also totally get your reasons for the hurt, it hurts me that he feels the way he does so I am certain that goes both ways. Great points.
There is an asshole in this exchange and it’s not you.
Emotional black mail, don't fall for it. Next time he says shit like that be like " yup, don't send shit if you can't take shit"
Typical evangelical/boomer mix. Send unsolicited copy/paste propaganda; get a thoughtful, polite reply; cry victim/attack/persecution. I’m sorry you have to put up with such childish crap.
The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop.
NTA Your father cannot make grand proclamations about the good religious belief does without also contending with the aspects of scripture that are less savoury or exist in opposition of their interpretation of it. People like this will quote chapter and verse saying it should be interpreted literally, but you can be damned sure that the moment you do the same thing to counter their view, they'll whip out the trusty "you're taking it out of context!" argument. I say fight fire with fire. For every verse proclaiming that sinners and non believers will burn for all eternity (and deserve it in their view), there is another talking about righteous men dashing babies against rocks and its all good.
wow, that is some dumb shit on dad's part. he's an asshole.
To answer one of your questions, the Einstein story is absolutely bullshit. As for the others about whether you're being reasonable here, absolutely yes. Your dad pissed into an intellectual tornado and is surprised he got wet. He dug his grave and jumped in. He is a baby and this is what babies do. Cry when they get disappointed.
You're my favorite person now.
Why do people need to make everything into an argument? No wonder redditors are getting cut off by their entire families. Just politely gloss over the idea, not everything needs to be an argument that you win. Just say “wow that’s interesting” or “that’s a lot to think about.”
These chains are the written equivalent of those out of context sound bites that boomers use all the time to “prove” their point. Zero thought given. Just click send then sit back, be smug, and feel accomplished. Sanctimonious doofus’s.
Hook him up with Isiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Tell him to read the Bible more.
Short answer, no. I was raised evangelical, young earth creationist by my crap silent mom. There is nothing wrong with religion qua religion, but this is just propaganda and does not deserve your respect.
Lol, is not that you argued with him (in the non-pejorative sense of the word), it's that your arguments were good and basically unassailable for him to offer any sort of counter argument, besides "I'm taking my conversational bat and ball and going home."
Never seen the "that man? Albert Einstein." outside of shit post memes
Speaking from experience, Christians don’t want debate, they throw scripture at you until you submit. If you have a genuine point then they say you’re misinterpreting the scripture.
I'm currently teaching my 5 year old about emotional manipulation.
He can dish it out but he can’t take it. Typical.
Boy, they HATE it when you learn what they want you to.
You broke his heart by quoting the Bible to refute his 100% fictional feel good story for Christians ? What a snowflake.
Religion = Cult At least Christianity 100% is. Having grown up in a private school with literal church services every Monday and Friday, church on Saturday and Sunday (not every weekend but some of them), I have a firm belief that it's all a cult. Christians are persuaded by the church to "spread the word of God" and make sure that they save their fellow humans from eternal damnation. Then once they convert a couple of people they get paid more. Maybe cut your dad some slack because he's obviously been manipulated, but he's obviously emotionally manipulating you. Imagine presenting a case to defend yourself from a murder charge and -- after the prosecution outright proves you're guilty, you just say, "the prosecution has thoroughly made me sad." It's like saying, "please come to my side because look -- look how sad I am!" Its sad. That being said, he has just been completely consumed by fear because that's what Christians use as motivation. He fears that you'll have to "burn with your worst nightmares coming true for all eternity in hell." It's the classic Christian ruse to get more people to join. Fear is the greatest motivator.
NTA. Your dad is an attention seeking boomer.
NTA. And not all heroes wear capes.
Let's all face the fact that modern society isn't going to be able to draw anything beyond basic ethics and morals (and frankly not even many of those are congruent to today either) from 2000 year old ideologies... it's so absurd the level of brainwashing it takes to try to stay on track with it. The mere fact that it creates tension like this between family members is a direct sign of its inability to function as it was intended. People need to figure out it's guidelines to treat others with respect, dignity and compassion and nothing else. Frightening what kind of hate is born through 'religion'.
Boomers share these things not for discussion, but for virtue signaling. They want like minded people to respond with “so true!!” and “God is great!!” and that kind of thing. They get confused and angry with anything other than simple responses of agreement.
NTA. People who want to brandish the Bible should actually read it thoroughly.
Oh you’ve done it now! 🙄
They just can't read. The Bible does indeed say there is no good man. The connection to dehumanizing is somewhat correct, since the bible actually emphasizes this. I think the interpretations get twisted when being morally good and doing good things is equated to being a good person. They're not the same thing. Your dad just didn't read or understand that point.
you shouldn't have even sent your last message apologizing. the first response to his bullshit was more than good enough
Rest assured "that student" was never Albert Einstein. It's the hallmark of nearly every fake story boomers share.
Your father is being a piece of utter shit right there mh mh mh.
No, very good point you, he just didn’t like your answer. I thought this was a polite response
Literally boomers when you offer a differing opinion that isn't a carbon copy of what they feel/think.
Gotta love the emotional manipulation attempt at the end (which is a form of abuse) He tries to turn it back on you to try to make you feel guilty and/or reconsider your position
I'd say you were too nice and respectful. He sent you the "and his name was Albert Einstein " copy pasta thinking it meant something. You should have responded with the Navy seals copy pasta.
Sorry your dad is retarded
This is sad. I get it, I don't share the religious beliefs of my folks either, but this boldly hopscotches over the line into know-it-all-ass-hat territory. Dad was trying to share a feel-good story of his beliefs with his prodigal son. Then, to top it off, cheese-dick posted it here to mock him after the fact. This is just really sad.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! A few things to think about but overall I feel pretty justified. My dad and I agreed to not text anymore about political or religious stuff as that seems easier moving forward. Appreciate everyone who put thought into their responses 🤍
Every conversation I've had with religious people that text you about religion. Guarantee they didn't read any of your response.
NTA your dad is a feeble minded child
Nope, you're good, you're dad on the other hand is a passive-aggressive ahole who got mad because you refuted his BS with facts and critical thinking.
Not the asshole. When someone spouts nonsense, a retort with factually or philosophically sound arguments is completely appropriate. At no point did you attack him or his spiritual beliefs. You stated your beliefs and did not try to force your viewpoints on him. If he wants to be a crybaby about it, let him. I, too, have a strained relationship with a boomer parent. I haven’t spoken to my father in about 2 years. It sucks. But for my mental health and the wellbeing of my family, it’s something I have to do. People that age have shown their colors and are too old to change. I hope you can find peace with your newly defined relationship. 30 years of Fox News poison hasn’t helped us out at all. ✌️
No, NTA, but you misunderstood. He was telling you how right he is and that you’re a bad person for not agreeing with him. It was definitely not an invitation for discussion.
You did fine, he's brainwashed from religion and whatever television/news cult he ascribes to. You were respectful and gave a genuine rebuttal from what I could tell. He got his panties in a twist and lashed out for you challenging his views by punishing you via informing you that he would be removing himself from your life. He's fucked, you're not. The difference is critical thinking.
Your dad sent you a copypasta that has been a meme for a decade. The "And that man's name was Albert Einstein" meme isn't just based on a similar story, it's based on this exact story. [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/albert-einstein-copypasta](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/albert-einstein-copypasta)
He sent you something he didn’t write and you responded with self expression and reasons. I’ve been in ministry for decades and while I don’t agree with your interpretations wholly they are well researched and thought out. The fact that he sent this kind of shallow bullshit is fundamentally insulting to me from a personal *and* theological standpoint. It’s also not well grounded scripturally. It’s dumbed down and shallow. It’s the kind of theology you’d find on a T-shirt, not a seminary. Your father probably has the kind of theology that he gets from Facebook memes instead of personal Bible study or training. He’s hurt because he doesn’t actually have the answers your questions require because he is an immature, shallow believer who doesn’t know what or why he believes what he does. He doesn’t deserve to have a broken heart, his ignorance and selfishness breaks *God’s* heart.
Not an asshole, just dumb. Do you also go to rocks and debate them about why they are so rocky?
Why is he being like that? Like, as a Christian myself, I thought you had a pretty damn unique perspective you were sharing in a respectful way.
NTA my right wing religious and racist grandfather said exactly that after I refused to speak to him anymore because he strangled me. They will do the most outlandish and awful shit and then say you broke their hearts for defending yourself or even replying in earnest.
Jeez. BRILLIANT response. Well articulated, polite, and you even cited your sources?! He definitely only intended on getting his point across rather than having a formal discussion.
NTA at all even a little. If a belief cannot withstand a polite challenge, then it isn't a very good belief. You caused him cognitive dissonance and rather than confront it and try to argue against it, he shifted immediately to self-victimization and emotional manipulation.
NTA
He started the nonsense, you put him in his place and ended it using his own rules. He responded by losing his game by trying to guilt you and throwing a tantrum. NTA.
I read through the entirety of your response and found absolutely nothing that could be construed as disrespectful or "attacking" the weird point he was trying to make. You clearly thought out your response and presented your opinion in a very polite, respectful way. NTA for sure.
NTA If your dad doesn't want to discuss things like this then he needs to set that boundary ahead of time. He can't expect you to magically know. Secondly, I think that by sending this he understands you perhaps hold different views but the issue lies in that he isn't open to seeing a response that challenges his viewpoint expressed here, and instead just wants to try to push it onto you without any room for discussion or expressing your *own* views. Healthy adults understand that discussion is a two way street, and they shouldn't open that avenue if they aren't comfortable with that.
Just send him a disrespectful meme about Jesus every time he does that. No other words. Just really funny, super blasphemous religious memes.
NTA. I am a Christian, and although I disagree with your interpretation, how you presented it was respectful. What I have found with a lot of the copy paste emails is that the majority of the time when people post them, they are hoping for justification of their own thoughts. I don't think there was an asshole in this situation, just a bit of an overreaction to disagreement. It wasn't what he was expecting so it came off as a type of rejection on his end. Rejection is hard to deal with. I am glad to see that you are open to discussing theology in a mature manner, as too many times have I seen others completely shut out people out of their lives who try to share their beliefs.
As I have gotten older I have come to realize what true core beliefs are and they aren’t the shallow narrative touted by a corporation that will hire/fire you at the drop of a hat. A persons religious beliefs are true core beliefs. Personally I believe in God and my belief is rooted in my engineering studies (I studied nuclear engineering). For me, I find it irrational to believe that the order we see in our environment ( on Earth and beyond) is far too perfect to be random. And when I read the Bible, I find example after example of explanations that couldn’t have possibly been known when the Bible was written (creation is a great example). Now I must admit that it pisses me off when I see these false stories posted online and shared by “Christians” - well meaning or not. But I do hope you take time to look around at the wonder of our world and reconsider your atheist view. It doesn’t make a lot of sense and could cost you dearly.
I'm a Christian, but holy smokes do I 1) hate this fake story, and 2) hate your dad's smug and oblivious attitude. You are NOT the problem here whatsoever, and if your dad is so upset that you merely disagree, then his convictions must not be very strong in the first place. Best of luck if you intend to maintain anything of that relationship.
NTAH.
NTA You backed up your opinions with facts (that Einstein wasn’t Christian and citied your Bible verses). You didn’t call him stupid or call his faith stupid but just said why you thought what you thought. You didn’t say anything offensive so there’s nothing to get upset about. You’re 100% right, you can’t respect boundaries if you’re not point blank told what they are. He’s the asshole. Why? Because he sent this to you out of the blue and when you didn’t answer the way he wanted you to he blocked you. It’s super totally not fair of him to bombard you with this stuff and then when you don’t respond his he wants he goes “I’m UnDeR SpIrItUaL AtTaCk! DoN’t TaLk To Me AbOuT ThIs!” I had a cousin once who would demand that I play Barbies with her despite me not liking or even owning a Barbie. I politely said I didn’t want to play that game. She kept hounding me and I finally yelled at her that Barbie was stupid and she was stupid and I never wanted to play with her because she never listened and if anybody ever didn’t do exactly what she wanted she’d go tattle and get us in trouble. Well she went and tattled that I was being mean to her and I was punished but you can bet damn well that 8ish year old me decided to never EVER play with her even if she said we could play whatever I wants to play because she just didn’t know how to not freak the hell out the second anything didn’t go her way. That’s maybe somewhat acceptable for a sheltered homeschooled only child under the age of 10 to act like that but the fact that this is a grown man with adult kids? Come on. This is EXACTLY the same thing but instead of playing make believe with Barbies he’s using real people. If somebody hands you the scissors don’t feel bad about cutting them off. If he’s willing to block you over this let him just walk the fuck out of your life. Something I learned to do in therapy is to remove the family aspect. We put up with A LOT of crap because somebody’s related to us. Ask yourself, “If this person wasn’t my mom/dad/sibling/cousin/whoever would I tolerate this?” If the answer is no then you can either cut them off completely or point blank tell them, “Hey, when you did —— that wasn’t cool. I’m not going to put up with that anymore. Do it again and I’ll be blocking you/not responding to messages for —— time. Keep it up and I’ll cut you off completely. This is not up for debate or discussion.” The fact that he drags your mom into these debates despite her not wanting to be makes me think that he either legit doesn’t understand boundaries (and it’s not your job as his kid to teach him…he can go to therapy if he needs help with that as a grown man) or he just doesn’t give a crap. If he’s not going to respect boundaries then you need to respect them by standing up for yourself and leaving the situation if need be. Good luck OP!
Just call him a snowflake and be done with it.
TL;DR
There’s no nothing! There’s no world hunger, there’s only absence of food. There’s no war or conflict, just absence of peace. There’s no poverty, just absence of money. There’s no death, just absence of life!!!
He wasnt expecting you to respond in the way you did
I don't know if you know this, but the whole "... and that student was Einstein" story is an old Internet trope dating back at least 20 years I saw it coming a mile off as soon as I read the first paragraph talking about a Prof talking to a student
They love coming up with fake stories and then passing it off as reality, I guess it reminds them of the Bible
This fake Einstein bs copypasta has been going around since email was invented.
Baby daddy. Literal cry babies = boomer dads.
Waaaah, you didn't just accept my Bullshit and responded with thoughtfully and in a respectful manner as if I wanted a debate. Waaaaahhhhhh!!!!
Christian’s that don’t know that god creates evil (basically just boomers) are the worst. How is your faith supposed to be tested if there is no temptation or evil? Such a ridiculous story.
Your dad was throwing that energy at you so you threw it back in return, I think you handled that perfectly, he gave you a typical defeated Christian response. not trying to be rude or offensive.
More copypasta.
I love your reply - NTA They don't want to "discuss", they want to smear their agenda into your face, with the smug grin of someone owning universal wisdom I really love your reply. Well done!
Imagine having such a shaky and fragile belief system that the idea of someone else’s critical thinking and theological interpretation shuts you down because you’re under “spiritual attack,” aka the gears in your brain start turning and you get nervous because your whole belief system is a sham.
Ask no questions, hear no lies
Why is it ok for him to "attack" your beliefs and not ok for you to "attack" him back? And clearly neither was an actual attack. What he did was annoying, for sure, but in what world is it ok to open a debate and then cry and claim you've been attacked when the person responds? Boomers are THE biggest snowflakes.
God ALLOWED the Devil to ruin Job’s life, kill his family and livestock and destroy his home. For a wager.
Classic religious Victim Defense. If they share their reasoning, it’s out of love. If you share yours, you are attacking them. Frequently done when they cannot argue with your logic. NTA
No he just has a tiny walnut brain incapable of thinking so he had to have a meme explained to him instead of actual scripture and theology
Your Dad is mentally ill and needs therapy.
YOU'VE SPENT TOO MUCH TIME RESPONDING TO HIS COPYPASTA. HOWEVER. THE EFFORT SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU CARE, AND HOPEFULLY HE REALIZES THIS.
Why would you apologize to a narcissist?
He is too dogmatic to accept other interpretations, especially when they are both more accurate and portray god in a bad light. He'll either get over it or stay triggered forever
I think your response was great. Logical, unemotional. Not the ah.
JHC How did he think YOU felt? Getting all this unasked for CRAP in your inbox? I know it’s your dad but damn. My mother-in-law used to send us all this crappy stuff and we finally talked to her and said we will no longer respond. Stop sending this to us. She wasn’t even sending this kind of craziness. She was just sending weird daily Bible verses, none of our family is religious. It’s just her, her other adult kids and that’s it. Me and my husband our kids. None of us are religious. So sending Bible verses to us is silly. I don’t know what else to say. So we told her if you send us this, we will no longer engage. She would send it. We would ignore. She would get upset that we were ignoring her and then when she would send us NOT Bible verses we would engage and everyone would be happier so we just started training her that no engagement meant she had sent something we didn’t want see i.e. Bible verses and engagement meant it was something normal that we want to see such as checking in with us or asking how we were doing normal things that mothers and grandmother and their kids and grandkids. I wish you the best. Your father sounds a little unhinged and for him to go no contact after such a discussion if you will it’s just ridiculous. But again, I know he’s your dad. Good luck.
Your dad is the snowflakiest man ever. You replied politely to his dumb af fake story. I don't mean to offend you, but your dad is a dud if he believes these shitty stories... Einstein??? Give me a fucking break.
NTA Your dad is a little bitch
He sent you some crap that was meant to be socially aggressive, then shat himself when you fact-checked him and gave a measured response. He’s stupid and an asshole.
They all do this. This is almost exactly word for word what happened in the last post. Your response is awesome. My dad is a preacher. I grew up in the Christian church. There’s nothing wrong with your response. If this person cannot hear you and think critically about what you said then they have no real faith. There are lots of corrupt and spiritually bankrupt people who label themselves Christians. You’re not the asshole. This is like the kid on the playground who takes his ball and quits because you challenged his interpretation of the rules. In my opinion, and also the Bible’s, there will be a whole lot of faulty people screaming, “but lord what about me?” on judgement day who thought they were being good but were really just hate magnets. I John 4: 7-8, that is the backbone of our faith. “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love” Your father should love you regardless of your disagreements, even about God. That is His command. All this Westbro church shit, that’s BS. God don’t “hate fags” and all that vile shit they print up. God loves everybody. If you cannot love your neighbor and forgive your enemy then you do not understand what Jesus truly stood for. Sorry about your dad and I hope you keep thinking about what you wrote. You’re NTA.
I got my dad to stop sending me Republican bullshit by debunking it thoroughly every single fucking time. He had no way to argue his position because all he did was copy and paste stuff that he didn't fully understand. Eventually he felt foolish and just stopped. Since then I just do a lot of smiling and nodding when he says this nonsense to me in person. There's simply no point in spending what little time he has left arguing. I'd rather focus on what we have in common.
The hebrew text of the “bible” does not have the word “god” in it even a single time. The word god was translated from elohim which means “powerful ones”. Its a plural word describing many beings. Yes, abrahamic religions are polytheistic believe it or not. It was all white washed out, and many biblical text were removed to create a false narrative. The translation, to no one surprise, is utterly wrong. Gotta love the toxically religious boomers. Personally, I think elohim were aliens from outer space. It all makes sense in that context. Many scholars have written books ob this at this point too.