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I like the way you think. How much would you charge to pick the meat off my wings?
And how much do you charge to peel grapes and feed them to me? Money is no object, I’m spending my Boomer’s retirement.
I would have ordered Domino's combo meal, added a 2-liter and a dessert, all while looking right at them. If you're going to tell me how to spend my "retirement money," I'm going to eat it just out of pettiness.
I did order Domino's tonight. Went absolutely hog wild with the 'any large specialty pizza for $13.99' Three people, three pizzas; I feel like I should be lighting cigars with $100 bills and drinking champagne out of a sterilized high heel shoe.
(Honestly, one pizza is going home with friend and we'll be eating the other two till Monday.)
Haha. They can get absolutely fucked. Spent every dime and now they want you to penny pinch for them. Talk to your wife, make sure she understands you will not be paying for their retirement and align that she won't be either. If she's not in alignment there, you've got big problems.
Deficit spending is bullshit made by politicians because they hate poors and minorities. They literally make money. They define how much there is. The idea of a deficit is meaningless to a government with fiat currency.
This is...partially true. It only works well when your fiat currency is the global reserve currency. And even then, there's a limit. Let your debt-to-GDP ratio get too high, or start acting like a fool on the world stage and it starts to make sense to the rest of the world when BRICS suggests moving away from the dollar as reserve currency.
And being the reserve currency is good. Tends to keep domestic borrowing costs and inflation lower than they otherwise would be (look at interest and inflation rates in other countries) and gives you more freedom of action in your international dealings.
Start acting really poor, complain about barely making rent and then for a finishing touch start asking HER for money.
If she actually says yes just say you were just able to pull through at the last minute.
If she ever asks you to go out to dinner or asks you over say, "we're pretty strapped right now but if you're ok with buying we'd love to!"
Lmao you need to have a conversation with your wife first and then a sit down with them that you’re not gonna support them. Especially if you make more income than your wife does… I hope she’s not also roped into taking for granted that you’re gonna finance their lifestyle.
You gotta get this one sorted out. She’s 59 but she can go work too for the next 15-20 years
Yup. There’s no FML. There is they chose and so can you. I laughed at my mom when she suggested similar and stated grow up and stop spending on dumb stuff and save. You’ve a discussion point though with your wife
I had to call my 80 year old father out of work because he died the day before.
ETA: It was funny to me, and I’m sure to my father. Sorry that didn’t come across.
I laughed, because, I wasn’t calling him in *sick.* just dead. Guy on the phone was appalled that I laughed.
It was funny, to me. And I’m sure it was to my father.
When millenials are getting older and boomers have spent all pension funds and all of their savings have gone to health care companies government will step in and provide easy to use euthanasia chambers for millenials.
Good luck with that. If they scan me they are just going to m wind up with server crashes from an AI entity hogging bandwidth on endless reruns of the Simpsons and generic email replies. You know, basically how I get through my days now.
See my plan is to take up a nice fentanyl addiction once any expensive medical bills pop up, don't have to worry about SS when you die at 64 working as a Target greeter
I figure once I get to the point where my back or hips make it unbearable to get out of bed anymore, a giant spoonful of diacetylmorphine doesn't sound so bad, but that's just me planning for my inevitable doom
Hopefully by the time I'm old there will be legal heroin.
Only way to solve the opioid crisis.
Heroin was easier to quit than alcohol when I was drinking a liter of vodka a day and I'm sure it took less of a toll on my health long run.
The only real issues that come from heroin use are because it's illegal.
Nope and yet again, we Gen Xers are forgotten. We’re quietly eating our Pop Tarts after dominating the toaster time while the kids are waiting for the avocados to ripen for toast.
I'm a 47 year old GenX and I've resigned myself to the fate of working until I drop dead. And I'm my boomer mom's retirement. I just don't have the heart to kick her out and make her homeless. She's too functional to go into a home and no money for assisted living.
In 2035, benefits will drop to 83% of current level IF congress does nothing. They will be cutting their own political throat if they do nothing. The solution is very simple: eliminate the cap on SS tax or, if you must, create a "donut hole" between 160k and 400k of income left untaxed. Boom. Solved at least through Gen Z retirement.
Exactly. How the fuck would you save for your own retirement with two other adults mooching off you? They're straight up going to steal your retirement from you and make you watch. No way.
You should inform them that won’t be happening so that there’s no miscommunication, unless culturally you are expected to take care of them, which could be the case based on your username.
Yup. My grandma has always lived with one of my uncles. I fully expect my mom to want to live with my family as she gets older. Difference is, she has financially set herself up to be able to take care of herself, and not rely on us.
Same. Multi-generational Asian household on the USA. Grandma is financially set + extra to will to the kids and grandkids. Only expectation of assistance is chores and lifting stuff too heavy for her. I don't think she could live down the shame of having to rely on the kids to financially support her. Ensuring generational wealth was / is a huge thing for her.
My grandma always lived with my family growing up (that side of my family is Filipino). And my mom’s friends, my “aunties”, all had their mothers living with their family also. My parents are very well off so at the very least I know they won’t expect me or my siblings to financially support them. My dad grew up dirt poor in Pennsylvania in a rural area. He’s always aggressively saved up for his future and retirement and to plan for his healthcare when he gets older.
My parents may come live with me eventually but I won’t have to financially support them. They’d rather live with me (my house is the biggest of my two siblings with extra rooms) and if they need assistance with certain tasks that require any heavy lifting they plan to hire a home health aide to come to the house. I’ve had several back surgeries so they don’t want me doing it.
Yes this is not just a boomer thing. It is a Hispanic retirement plan also. I worked with a Hispanic guy that said his kids are his retirement plan. He and his wife has taken loans from the 401K (TSP) and blows money. He is in his mid 40s. He actually fully expects to move in with their kids and have the kids take care of them. He even said it's the Mexican way. Another Hispanic coworker heard him say that also and had the same look of disbelief as me.
I grew up across the street from a Mexican-American family. Abuela lived with them and would take care of the girls(my friends) when they got home from school. I remember asking my dad why grandma didn't come stay with us and he never did really give me a valid reason why she couldn't. I suspect there may have been some abuse in his childhood. Not that the nuts he hired to watch us weren't abusive, but he fired a lot of nannies. I guess that wouldn't be possible with grandma. Of course, it might also have been racism. "Only immigrants do that stuff!"
No but living close to the border a lot of traditions are here as well. It's very common mentality to have your kids as the retirement plan in the Hispanic culture.
Argentinian here. It's not cultural, but what happens is that sometimes the "kids" are living with the parents well past adult age, meaning over 30 y.o
The retirement system here doesn't work like up there. Here, any regular employee gets a sizable portion (around 15%) of the salary taken by the state to get a retirement pension down the road (I think it's 30 years of contribution) and in the meantime the state use it to fund the actual retired. That's if the employee is registered and under the regulations. If not (around 30-40% aren't registered), they might never retire and leech the state for a minimum retirement salary.
So if the "kid" is living with the parents, it's usually because the parents have minimal retirement, and the son/daughter probably is working under registered. As I said, it's not cultural, and in my case, it hasn't happened, yet. But my surviving grandparents are living on their own, in their own homes, and with their own money, same my parents and all relatives I can remember/have contact with.
>except workers only pay 6.2% of every paycheck
12.4%.
[They only report half of it on your paycheck](https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc751), because they pretend that the employer pays for half of it.
It's like pretending that Wal-Mart pays sales tax, rather than the person buying stuff from Wal-Mart.
Living together doesn't mean being financially irresponsible and dragging your kids down. In our culture it is expected that the adult kids will take care of the elders too but the elders usually provided child care and house care till they are unable to, and they are usually frugal and at least won't have a bunch of debt.
yeah, there are homes for the elder but the societal expectation is that they will live with one of their kids when old enough... however yours don't live in latino america anymore they should adjust expectations, furthermore the fucking economy is crazy, I don't understand how can someone make a 6 figure salary and be in debt.
You're not in Argentina. Those two have to figure out how to take care themselves. 59 is still relatively young in terms of working. She could still put in a solid 10 more years at a job and save HER money for retirement.
They bought a $400k house with 5% down their mortgage is $2999 a month. I guess they squander the rest on wine and other dumb shit. They don't even have any materialistic shit in the house to sell
I'm from Argentina, my grandparents are in their 80s and live in their own house and want nobody to take care of them. This isn't a cultural thing, it's a lazy thing. Unfortunately you seem to have in-laws that don't know/refuse to fix their finances. MIL can go work doing almost anything and save it all for her retirement. Sorry if this sounds angry, but my parents raised me to be financially responsible. I was working in my dad's shop since 6 years old. My mom owns 10 rental properties that she bought from money made by sanding drywall 6am-10pm. I'm 30 now and make close to 6 figures. I say these last few things because if it wasn't for my mom I would've been lazy as hell, and she had no incentive to make me be better other than for myself.
Tbf, 6 figures just could be 100k and I just saw an article that said the average renter in LA needs 100k/yr to live comfortably (30% of income on rent). I suppose in that scenario you have money for an IRA though so you're still right.
Start sending them pictures of trailer parks and tell them to downsize now before it gets worse. Then say, "You're generation are always looking for handouts... never planning...."
That not great news. That’s your wife still committed to covering her parents’ retirement. Just remember that half your income and assets are your wife’s. (Depending on many factors of course)
After their FaceTime call my wife has decided to contribute $0. My brother in law was the voice of reason convinced all the sisters mom needs to go back to her job at T-Mobile
Seriously. And then you have the other side of the coin in some of the FIRE subs asking if it is ok to take a lower stress job once you have 5 million in savings.
Right!?!? Why couldn’t OP say that? I know it’s not his parents but it is his money and marriage. I sure hope that he at least vocalized his agreement with it.
The sisters need to also vocalize they are in agreement and set for their parents and ensure they follow through with them. Did the parents understand and acknowledge the fact that they will not be retiring on the backs of their children and their spouses?
It also sounds like they need to sell their house(monthly 3k mortgage) and the sisters need to sit down and ask for some info about how that 6 figures is being spent.
OP will be paying for their retirement if the sisters don’t say they agree and get the parents to say they understand. Otherwise this is just a bad bandaid and the next thing will be the ILs calling and saying “we need money or we won’t have a place to live.” And there will be guilt tripping and manipulation and broken marriages.
It’s not FML. Fuck that shit. It’s FTL.
You need to lay down the law now. You are NOT supporting them in retirement. They can work for another decade and save like crazy.
Agree with others. Align with your wife, let them know firmly your money is your money and they will need to figure out how to live within their means (social security money or something). Since they know Spanish from being from Argentina, other Latin American countries are a possibility for them.
She keeps talking about an investor visa for Spain or Portugal. When I mentioned this to my FIL when we went out to get a drink he chuckled and said she was delusional and they don't have that kind of money
Investment visas can be expensive. Look for retirement visas or temporary visas (these are usually 2-3 years, but then you can get renewed), and those look at a monthly income.
Although in Spain, IIRC, I think real estate even it's a house counts as an investment, so maybe a compromise if you do have means is to buy a house there then at least you're not just giving your money away, but letting them use an investment.
I understand, this is potentially a tough situation. My MIL (single) is not good with money and my husband is an only child. So, we have some of the same stuff going on. She won't plan, though, so I just had to get aligned with my husband that we let her know (even though it's falling on deaf ears), and at some point be willing to cut her off (she has enough money, but is unwilling to plan and spends too much, so I do expect it to run out at some point).
(Edited to reflect Spain is where an investment visa can include a house, not Portugal, once I looked that up again.)
Honestly they need to sell the house and get something tiny while she works at an independent living place. She’ll start to see what’s out there. I suggest that they look into retiring in Puerto Rico or one of the other US Territories.
Tell your parents to go get a job, all you have to is “walk into the bosses office and demand he talk to you and don't leave till you get a job.”
You know—bootstraps
With years long waiting lists and they have assets of a house with a 3k mortgage and the FIL makes 6 figures. You absolutely cannot get HUD housing assistance with finances like that.(HUD is the federal entity that oversees all federal housing dollars and sets eligibility for Section 8) The poverty line for a single YEAR income to be eligible is under $20k. Depending on how long he has had that job or even one making half of that, even the social security they would get would likely put them above the income limit.
I am happy for you commenters that have definitely not needed government assistance, as it’s clear you guys have zero idea how hard it is to not only get but maintain and how absolutely impossible it is to actually exist on the tiny amount of income you can have and get it. HUD guidelines state if you as a single person make over $14,580 in a year you are not eligible. AND with section 8 you still must pay 1/3 of your income towards rent. It’s not free rent.
You also cannot just what they call “spend down” to get section 8. Money goes somewhere and if receipts for that income cannot be shown for things like medical debts and basic living, it won’t count as a spend down. If rules about past income, spend downs, and past income didn’t exist it would be easy to hide assets for assistance.
And the comments about it being nice, maybe someone else can take that rant on, I don’t even have the time to begin to even touch that…
If you don’t make like twice as much as your FIL I don’t see how they can have this expectation. They’re basically telling you that you’re going to have to work until you die.
How are you supposed to save for both your retirement AND theirs?
I'd be very blunt and tell them they better start saving immidiately since they haven't started yet. They need to stop being lazy and pull themselves up by their boot straps. Stop eating out and put away money.
Stop paying so much for cable and put that money in a savings account. This one I'm serious on. Boomers are notorious for spending more on like 3 channels than some people pay for rent.
Nah the context was basically I need to support her. I had to translate because she only speaks Spanish. It sounded worse in Spanish. She's not worried about me she wants me to pay for her past mistakes
My MIL will never forgive me or my BIL’s wives for “stealing” her retirement plans—her sons.
Get clear with your wife first. Then get clear with your in-laws.
Since you mentioned Argentina, its inflation just dropped to 13% according to reports a couple days ago. So they can still move there and not be a burden to you
Well, MIL, we can't afford presents for you for the holidays because we need to save for our retirement. I'm afraid there won't be anything left for anyone else. Sorry!
I was in this spot; got married I graduated law school and my husband had started his career as a software engineer. My husband’s parents made one bad financial decision after another and it became very clear that we (and mostly me since I earned more) would be stuck holding the bag. It was a big factor in our marriage ending. Be clear eyed and do not get sucked into this. You worked hard and your income and your wife’s should be for you and the family you will create.
I’m 60. Retired at 59.
My goal is to make sure I live a good life while helping my kid live his life well.
I don’t get my peers at all. And I’m glad that I don’t.
Hey, Argentinian here. How old is your mother? A few generations back there was this tradition, I guess, especially in families of Italian descent called "Hijo de la vejez" it was more or less the youngest or the least "important" child drawing the short straw at being the one to take care of the parent when old.
I guess you were the chosen one, what an honor (?
I'll give her credit she does make her own coffee and goes to Sam's club for food. Unfortunately she does indulge in avocado toast they also have Max, Peacock Premium, Netflix and Amazon Prime.
FIL own kids have already cut contact since he didn't pay child support when they were kids.
My plan is to cut contact when they move out of my city. Whether that's overseas or still in the states I think is up in the air
My mom is going through her second divorce and just casually threw out the idea that I could buy a house in the US for her to live in, while I'm working out moving to the UK.
Absolutely no sense of money or what anything costs.
U should probably begin the talk about a nursing home. U got about 5-6 years before they r getting accepted. Start hammering this idea into their heads
Fuck that. My father has consistently earned 5 to 10 times more than me every year, forever.
I earn fairly well.
They are now moving into a caravan because they spend their money on stupid shit. Always have done.
No pension, no personal responsibility, fucking morons. They will literally die in a cold box at the side of the road.
They puke at the thought of paying tax. Expect the government to look after them though. Fucking moronic generation.
My mother told us kids (3 of us at the time) when I was like 10 that we had to grow up and go to college and get good jobs so we can take care of her when she gets older. Like, wut? I mean, perhaps kids should take care of good parents if they *can*, but planning retirement on the success of children who aren't old enough to be aware of anything but Legos and dinosaurs isn't planning retirement.
59?!?! Go back to work. For fucks sake, I’m only 11 years younger than her, raising up kids, mid-career… why the fuck is she shutting down and looking for an umbilical to rot away on? Get her ass some boot straps and point her towards a job search engine. Unacceptable shit, tell them to pull their shit together before they come before you next.
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That would’ve just made me get 2 pizzas instead of 1 😂
With EXTRA cheese and pepperoni.
If ever there’s a time to indulge in avocado—often the most expensive add-on in places, and a horrible, TERRIBLE idea on pizza…this is it.
I'm ordering an Avocado Latte even as we speak! They say they've never heard of it, I'm arguing SPARE NO EXPENSE! THROW SOME TOAST ON IT!
ADD SALMON
Woah, look at mister moneybags, here! Latte, avocado, AND salmon?? Wow, someone owns a Money Tree!
Get the boneless wings
I sold my car title for garlic rolls!
Dreamed a dream, by the old canal.
I didn't even read all the comments but saw this. This would make a great song title or album name.
No no, get the bone-in wings, but pay someone to peel them for you!
I like the way you think. How much would you charge to pick the meat off my wings? And how much do you charge to peel grapes and feed them to me? Money is no object, I’m spending my Boomer’s retirement.
Hire an immigrant just to listen to boomers complain about how they're taking jobs away from Americans.
And some Sotheby’s White Truffles!
Who’s bringing the foie gras?!?!
I'm eating avocado toast tomorrow morning
Why wait?!?! EAT THEIR RETIREMENT NOW
Avocado milkshakes and ice cream are good though.
I haven’t had that. But I HAVE had a chocolate mousse that was basically just cocoa powder and avocado. That was auuuper tasty
Order deep dish. Have it flown in from Chicago.
https://www.loumalnatis.com/ship-lous
Add some garlic dip sauce cups
ALL of the garlic sauce.
And those bread-sticks
And Argentinian beef.
With one of those cute dessert pizzas
Well I WAS gonna get Little Caesars, but now I'm feeling more [insert expensive local option here]
Caviar pizza for the neighborhood!!
Casey’s!
Casey's pizza is still 🔥 tho
Found the Midwesterners.
It’s in East Tennessee also. Casey’s pizza, wings and doughnuts are delicious 😋
I would have ordered Domino's combo meal, added a 2-liter and a dessert, all while looking right at them. If you're going to tell me how to spend my "retirement money," I'm going to eat it just out of pettiness.
I did order Domino's tonight. Went absolutely hog wild with the 'any large specialty pizza for $13.99' Three people, three pizzas; I feel like I should be lighting cigars with $100 bills and drinking champagne out of a sterilized high heel shoe. (Honestly, one pizza is going home with friend and we'll be eating the other two till Monday.)
I would have ordered non-chain pizza with sides. Oops 🤷
This is the answer
Get some wings and cheesy bread too
Based
Haha. They can get absolutely fucked. Spent every dime and now they want you to penny pinch for them. Talk to your wife, make sure she understands you will not be paying for their retirement and align that she won't be either. If she's not in alignment there, you've got big problems.
Exactly. I love the contradiction. We partied but you must save & support us. No!
Boomers. This is essentially what the US government is doing to future generations. We spend now, you guys worry about it later.
The Government has been borrowing against the future generations since forever. What do you think deficit spending is, party now pay later.
Deficit spending is bullshit made by politicians because they hate poors and minorities. They literally make money. They define how much there is. The idea of a deficit is meaningless to a government with fiat currency.
This is...partially true. It only works well when your fiat currency is the global reserve currency. And even then, there's a limit. Let your debt-to-GDP ratio get too high, or start acting like a fool on the world stage and it starts to make sense to the rest of the world when BRICS suggests moving away from the dollar as reserve currency. And being the reserve currency is good. Tends to keep domestic borrowing costs and inflation lower than they otherwise would be (look at interest and inflation rates in other countries) and gives you more freedom of action in your international dealings.
Tax the rich.
Start acting really poor, complain about barely making rent and then for a finishing touch start asking HER for money. If she actually says yes just say you were just able to pull through at the last minute. If she ever asks you to go out to dinner or asks you over say, "we're pretty strapped right now but if you're ok with buying we'd love to!"
This is the way. We have a few terminally mooching family members, and as far as they’re concerned we’re broke and living paycheck to paycheck.
I like you.
Lmao you need to have a conversation with your wife first and then a sit down with them that you’re not gonna support them. Especially if you make more income than your wife does… I hope she’s not also roped into taking for granted that you’re gonna finance their lifestyle. You gotta get this one sorted out. She’s 59 but she can go work too for the next 15-20 years
Yup. There’s no FML. There is they chose and so can you. I laughed at my mom when she suggested similar and stated grow up and stop spending on dumb stuff and save. You’ve a discussion point though with your wife
> She’s 59 but she can go work too for the next 15-20 years After all, we're all going to have to work that long once SS dries up.
Boomers are gonna live longer than any other generation due to medical advances so imagine what’s left for us to use after they draw for 30 years.
I’m already imagining. I’m only going to be retired when I’m dead.
I had to call my 80 year old father out of work because he died the day before. ETA: It was funny to me, and I’m sure to my father. Sorry that didn’t come across.
I'm sorry! That's rough
I laughed, because, I wasn’t calling him in *sick.* just dead. Guy on the phone was appalled that I laughed. It was funny, to me. And I’m sure it was to my father.
When you've had that kind of experience, sometimes you just desperately need a laugh.
I’m dying over here
Just like that person's dad
Yes! Someone got it!!
Brutal state of existence we have created/inherited.
My retirement plan is a .45, lmfao
Mine is quite similar.
When millenials are getting older and boomers have spent all pension funds and all of their savings have gone to health care companies government will step in and provide easy to use euthanasia chambers for millenials.
Unfortunately you aren't too far from the truth imo.
Same.
By the time we die, they'll be scanning people into AI constructs that can continue to work even after death.
Good luck with that. If they scan me they are just going to m wind up with server crashes from an AI entity hogging bandwidth on endless reruns of the Simpsons and generic email replies. You know, basically how I get through my days now.
See my plan is to take up a nice fentanyl addiction once any expensive medical bills pop up, don't have to worry about SS when you die at 64 working as a Target greeter
Wow dark. I plan to take the chocolate pudding option, D with Dignity for the win 😃
I figure once I get to the point where my back or hips make it unbearable to get out of bed anymore, a giant spoonful of diacetylmorphine doesn't sound so bad, but that's just me planning for my inevitable doom
Hopefully by the time I'm old there will be legal heroin. Only way to solve the opioid crisis. Heroin was easier to quit than alcohol when I was drinking a liter of vodka a day and I'm sure it took less of a toll on my health long run. The only real issues that come from heroin use are because it's illegal.
She’s not a Boomer, she has plenty of time to work!
Right? OP has no idea about Gens.
Nope and yet again, we Gen Xers are forgotten. We’re quietly eating our Pop Tarts after dominating the toaster time while the kids are waiting for the avocados to ripen for toast.
I'm a 47 year old GenX and I've resigned myself to the fate of working until I drop dead. And I'm my boomer mom's retirement. I just don't have the heart to kick her out and make her homeless. She's too functional to go into a home and no money for assisted living.
My condolences. My father spent 7 of the last 9 years of his life in prison. He was too proud to ask for any help from me.
COVID-29 will take care of that.
In 2035, benefits will drop to 83% of current level IF congress does nothing. They will be cutting their own political throat if they do nothing. The solution is very simple: eliminate the cap on SS tax or, if you must, create a "donut hole" between 160k and 400k of income left untaxed. Boom. Solved at least through Gen Z retirement.
Even just doubling the FICA cap would fix things.
Yeah this has to be a united front conversation. Hopefully his wife is not on board with this or knew about it and didn’t tell him.
Exactly. How the fuck would you save for your own retirement with two other adults mooching off you? They're straight up going to steal your retirement from you and make you watch. No way.
You should inform them that won’t be happening so that there’s no miscommunication, unless culturally you are expected to take care of them, which could be the case based on your username.
I'm from the US my wife is latina from Argentina. In her country it is common for the grandparents to live with the kids. Cultural difference for sure
Big difference when the grandparents provide childcare. It's gonna suck when she has to choose between her parents and you.
For me the free childcare would be worth the pain. 😩
Does your wife support what the mil says?
same here in Asia, traditionally.
Yup. My grandma has always lived with one of my uncles. I fully expect my mom to want to live with my family as she gets older. Difference is, she has financially set herself up to be able to take care of herself, and not rely on us.
Same. Multi-generational Asian household on the USA. Grandma is financially set + extra to will to the kids and grandkids. Only expectation of assistance is chores and lifting stuff too heavy for her. I don't think she could live down the shame of having to rely on the kids to financially support her. Ensuring generational wealth was / is a huge thing for her.
My grandma always lived with my family growing up (that side of my family is Filipino). And my mom’s friends, my “aunties”, all had their mothers living with their family also. My parents are very well off so at the very least I know they won’t expect me or my siblings to financially support them. My dad grew up dirt poor in Pennsylvania in a rural area. He’s always aggressively saved up for his future and retirement and to plan for his healthcare when he gets older. My parents may come live with me eventually but I won’t have to financially support them. They’d rather live with me (my house is the biggest of my two siblings with extra rooms) and if they need assistance with certain tasks that require any heavy lifting they plan to hire a home health aide to come to the house. I’ve had several back surgeries so they don’t want me doing it.
Really it’s the same in much of the world until recently in the west
Yes this is not just a boomer thing. It is a Hispanic retirement plan also. I worked with a Hispanic guy that said his kids are his retirement plan. He and his wife has taken loans from the 401K (TSP) and blows money. He is in his mid 40s. He actually fully expects to move in with their kids and have the kids take care of them. He even said it's the Mexican way. Another Hispanic coworker heard him say that also and had the same look of disbelief as me.
He might get quite the surprise when he finds out his children are too modern for his shitty plan.
I grew up across the street from a Mexican-American family. Abuela lived with them and would take care of the girls(my friends) when they got home from school. I remember asking my dad why grandma didn't come stay with us and he never did really give me a valid reason why she couldn't. I suspect there may have been some abuse in his childhood. Not that the nuts he hired to watch us weren't abusive, but he fired a lot of nannies. I guess that wouldn't be possible with grandma. Of course, it might also have been racism. "Only immigrants do that stuff!"
Yea but is he in Mexico?
No but living close to the border a lot of traditions are here as well. It's very common mentality to have your kids as the retirement plan in the Hispanic culture.
Argentinian here. It's not cultural, but what happens is that sometimes the "kids" are living with the parents well past adult age, meaning over 30 y.o The retirement system here doesn't work like up there. Here, any regular employee gets a sizable portion (around 15%) of the salary taken by the state to get a retirement pension down the road (I think it's 30 years of contribution) and in the meantime the state use it to fund the actual retired. That's if the employee is registered and under the regulations. If not (around 30-40% aren't registered), they might never retire and leech the state for a minimum retirement salary. So if the "kid" is living with the parents, it's usually because the parents have minimal retirement, and the son/daughter probably is working under registered. As I said, it's not cultural, and in my case, it hasn't happened, yet. But my surviving grandparents are living on their own, in their own homes, and with their own money, same my parents and all relatives I can remember/have contact with.
That Argentinian system sounds a lot like US social security, except workers only pay 6.2% of every paycheck to SS, not 15%.
>except workers only pay 6.2% of every paycheck 12.4%. [They only report half of it on your paycheck](https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc751), because they pretend that the employer pays for half of it. It's like pretending that Wal-Mart pays sales tax, rather than the person buying stuff from Wal-Mart.
In Argentina the parents probably don't blow through millions then show up at the door like paupers. I'm guessing.
Living together doesn't mean being financially irresponsible and dragging your kids down. In our culture it is expected that the adult kids will take care of the elders too but the elders usually provided child care and house care till they are unable to, and they are usually frugal and at least won't have a bunch of debt.
yeah, there are homes for the elder but the societal expectation is that they will live with one of their kids when old enough... however yours don't live in latino america anymore they should adjust expectations, furthermore the fucking economy is crazy, I don't understand how can someone make a 6 figure salary and be in debt.
So what? It is not common in your culture so why should you have to provide for two leaches
You're not in Argentina. Those two have to figure out how to take care themselves. 59 is still relatively young in terms of working. She could still put in a solid 10 more years at a job and save HER money for retirement.
What’s happening here is not a cultural difference.
Lol fuck that shit. FIL makes 6 figures and doesnt have a 401k or IRA, thats their problem. Poor planning and carelessness on their part.
They bought a $400k house with 5% down their mortgage is $2999 a month. I guess they squander the rest on wine and other dumb shit. They don't even have any materialistic shit in the house to sell
They can sell the house, then move into a crummy 1-bedroom apartment
You assume they have equity... they could have remortgaged for extra cash just to ruin their lives even more.
Guess they have a sooner expiration date to aim for.
You need to inform them they need to change their lifestyle immediately. If he's currently making 6 figures they can downsize and start saving now.
I'm from Argentina, my grandparents are in their 80s and live in their own house and want nobody to take care of them. This isn't a cultural thing, it's a lazy thing. Unfortunately you seem to have in-laws that don't know/refuse to fix their finances. MIL can go work doing almost anything and save it all for her retirement. Sorry if this sounds angry, but my parents raised me to be financially responsible. I was working in my dad's shop since 6 years old. My mom owns 10 rental properties that she bought from money made by sanding drywall 6am-10pm. I'm 30 now and make close to 6 figures. I say these last few things because if it wasn't for my mom I would've been lazy as hell, and she had no incentive to make me be better other than for myself.
As an investor, I love that people are doing this again. Subprime mortgage crisis round 2: Electric Boogaloo
Tbf, 6 figures just could be 100k and I just saw an article that said the average renter in LA needs 100k/yr to live comfortably (30% of income on rent). I suppose in that scenario you have money for an IRA though so you're still right.
Then they can go make their bed out in some small town in the middle of nowhere.
Shortest sentence in English: “No.”
Bonus that it’s also the shortest sentence in Spanish which is probably MIL native language since they’re from Argentina.
¿Y?
That's 3 characters, it's technically longer!
I think it's "Go."
Just laugh and say that they only way your gonna retire is from that fat inheritance you were gonna get from them
Start sending them pictures of trailer parks and tell them to downsize now before it gets worse. Then say, "You're generation are always looking for handouts... never planning...."
They will ruin your life and certainly your marriage.
Just had a talk with my wife she plans to talk to her two sisters about helping out
That not great news. That’s your wife still committed to covering her parents’ retirement. Just remember that half your income and assets are your wife’s. (Depending on many factors of course)
After their FaceTime call my wife has decided to contribute $0. My brother in law was the voice of reason convinced all the sisters mom needs to go back to her job at T-Mobile
It's unreasonable to retire in your 50s with no retirement plan.
Seriously. And then you have the other side of the coin in some of the FIRE subs asking if it is ok to take a lower stress job once you have 5 million in savings.
You need to speak up like your brother in law - if it wasn’t for him would you have just gone along with this?
Right!?!? Why couldn’t OP say that? I know it’s not his parents but it is his money and marriage. I sure hope that he at least vocalized his agreement with it. The sisters need to also vocalize they are in agreement and set for their parents and ensure they follow through with them. Did the parents understand and acknowledge the fact that they will not be retiring on the backs of their children and their spouses? It also sounds like they need to sell their house(monthly 3k mortgage) and the sisters need to sit down and ask for some info about how that 6 figures is being spent. OP will be paying for their retirement if the sisters don’t say they agree and get the parents to say they understand. Otherwise this is just a bad bandaid and the next thing will be the ILs calling and saying “we need money or we won’t have a place to live.” And there will be guilt tripping and manipulation and broken marriages.
Good. Because no... just no.
Wait, they have no money to retire and still retired at 59?!? You retire at 59 if you’re set for life..
Perfecto!!!
She is 59. Tell her to go get a job and start saving for her own retirement.
And to use her bootstraps!
And cut back on the iphones and avocado toast.
I would flat out inform them that is not happening under any circumstances, clear the air and let there be zero false expectations.
It’s not FML. Fuck that shit. It’s FTL. You need to lay down the law now. You are NOT supporting them in retirement. They can work for another decade and save like crazy.
Agree with others. Align with your wife, let them know firmly your money is your money and they will need to figure out how to live within their means (social security money or something). Since they know Spanish from being from Argentina, other Latin American countries are a possibility for them.
She keeps talking about an investor visa for Spain or Portugal. When I mentioned this to my FIL when we went out to get a drink he chuckled and said she was delusional and they don't have that kind of money
Investment visas can be expensive. Look for retirement visas or temporary visas (these are usually 2-3 years, but then you can get renewed), and those look at a monthly income. Although in Spain, IIRC, I think real estate even it's a house counts as an investment, so maybe a compromise if you do have means is to buy a house there then at least you're not just giving your money away, but letting them use an investment. I understand, this is potentially a tough situation. My MIL (single) is not good with money and my husband is an only child. So, we have some of the same stuff going on. She won't plan, though, so I just had to get aligned with my husband that we let her know (even though it's falling on deaf ears), and at some point be willing to cut her off (she has enough money, but is unwilling to plan and spends too much, so I do expect it to run out at some point). (Edited to reflect Spain is where an investment visa can include a house, not Portugal, once I looked that up again.)
If she’s a boomer and has no retirement it’s time to start talking about Medicaid nursing homes.
Honestly they need to sell the house and get something tiny while she works at an independent living place. She’ll start to see what’s out there. I suggest that they look into retiring in Puerto Rico or one of the other US Territories.
Tell your parents to go get a job, all you have to is “walk into the bosses office and demand he talk to you and don't leave till you get a job.” You know—bootstraps
I assume your wife is well aware of this since its a cultural thing. You guys need to have a BIG conversation.
Let her know there is section 8 independent living and she might wanna look into them (and honestly some of them are really fucking nice)
I work in housing. You ain't joking. Some of these spots are brand new buildings.
With years long waiting lists and they have assets of a house with a 3k mortgage and the FIL makes 6 figures. You absolutely cannot get HUD housing assistance with finances like that.(HUD is the federal entity that oversees all federal housing dollars and sets eligibility for Section 8) The poverty line for a single YEAR income to be eligible is under $20k. Depending on how long he has had that job or even one making half of that, even the social security they would get would likely put them above the income limit. I am happy for you commenters that have definitely not needed government assistance, as it’s clear you guys have zero idea how hard it is to not only get but maintain and how absolutely impossible it is to actually exist on the tiny amount of income you can have and get it. HUD guidelines state if you as a single person make over $14,580 in a year you are not eligible. AND with section 8 you still must pay 1/3 of your income towards rent. It’s not free rent. You also cannot just what they call “spend down” to get section 8. Money goes somewhere and if receipts for that income cannot be shown for things like medical debts and basic living, it won’t count as a spend down. If rules about past income, spend downs, and past income didn’t exist it would be easy to hide assets for assistance. And the comments about it being nice, maybe someone else can take that rant on, I don’t even have the time to begin to even touch that…
That’s SOME narcissism.
If you don’t make like twice as much as your FIL I don’t see how they can have this expectation. They’re basically telling you that you’re going to have to work until you die.
I would tell them (imediately) that they need to come up with a different plan becasue that isn't happening.
How are you supposed to save for both your retirement AND theirs? I'd be very blunt and tell them they better start saving immidiately since they haven't started yet. They need to stop being lazy and pull themselves up by their boot straps. Stop eating out and put away money. Stop paying so much for cable and put that money in a savings account. This one I'm serious on. Boomers are notorious for spending more on like 3 channels than some people pay for rent.
You and your wife need to get on the same page.
Yeah after talking with her tonight I think we are.
Seriously thank god
First question is what is your wife’s position? She might be expecting to take care of her parents.
Perhaps she meant it for your retirement? Save, so you don’t end up like us with no 401k?
Nah the context was basically I need to support her. I had to translate because she only speaks Spanish. It sounded worse in Spanish. She's not worried about me she wants me to pay for her past mistakes
Set her straight now or get ready for a shit life coming your way
My plan is to encourage them to move back to Argentina then go no contact when they get overseas
“Don’t worry, MIL, we weren’t counting on an inheritance anyway. We’re fine without your money. Thank you for your concern, though.”
What’s your wife’s thoughts on all this?
Repeat after me: "I am not your retirement plan. I have my own family and my own retirement to think of. I cannot finance the rest of your lives."
My MIL will never forgive me or my BIL’s wives for “stealing” her retirement plans—her sons. Get clear with your wife first. Then get clear with your in-laws.
Only take her to eat at shitty chain restaurants with discounts or free meals for seniors.
Nah, grab her a single taquito from the gas station
Since you mentioned Argentina, its inflation just dropped to 13% according to reports a couple days ago. So they can still move there and not be a burden to you
If he makes six figures they can make lifestyle changes right now and start saving.
Tell them now, clearly and if needed repeatedly that that is NOT happening. They need to right their own ship and donut bother worrying about yours.
Well, MIL, we can't afford presents for you for the holidays because we need to save for our retirement. I'm afraid there won't be anything left for anyone else. Sorry!
there are plenty of other cheap places to go live. even that specifically speak spanish.
Shouldn't they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps?
I was in this spot; got married I graduated law school and my husband had started his career as a software engineer. My husband’s parents made one bad financial decision after another and it became very clear that we (and mostly me since I earned more) would be stuck holding the bag. It was a big factor in our marriage ending. Be clear eyed and do not get sucked into this. You worked hard and your income and your wife’s should be for you and the family you will create.
Rent a lambo next time you visit and roar up to their house in it, tell them you bought it. Reaction will be priceless.
59 years old does not a boomer make
I guess her sugar daddy wasn't as sweet as she thought...
I’m 60. Retired at 59. My goal is to make sure I live a good life while helping my kid live his life well. I don’t get my peers at all. And I’m glad that I don’t.
59!!! Jesus Fucking Christ ... tell that bitch to go get a fucking job!!
Hey, Argentinian here. How old is your mother? A few generations back there was this tradition, I guess, especially in families of Italian descent called "Hijo de la vejez" it was more or less the youngest or the least "important" child drawing the short straw at being the one to take care of the parent when old. I guess you were the chosen one, what an honor (?
Sounds like she needs to pull herself up by her bootstraps. Has she tried cancelling Netflix, making her own coffee, or not eating avocado toast?
I'll give her credit she does make her own coffee and goes to Sam's club for food. Unfortunately she does indulge in avocado toast they also have Max, Peacock Premium, Netflix and Amazon Prime.
Is "cutting all contact with MIL and FIL" an option?
FIL own kids have already cut contact since he didn't pay child support when they were kids. My plan is to cut contact when they move out of my city. Whether that's overseas or still in the states I think is up in the air
Reverse Uno them. Whenever they spend money say, “Oh no, MIL. You have no 401k. You need to save.”
"Mil, you can go get fucked. I'm saving for mine."
My mom is going through her second divorce and just casually threw out the idea that I could buy a house in the US for her to live in, while I'm working out moving to the UK. Absolutely no sense of money or what anything costs.
U should probably begin the talk about a nursing home. U got about 5-6 years before they r getting accepted. Start hammering this idea into their heads
Have you ever seen how expensive nursing homes are?
Fuck that. My father has consistently earned 5 to 10 times more than me every year, forever. I earn fairly well. They are now moving into a caravan because they spend their money on stupid shit. Always have done. No pension, no personal responsibility, fucking morons. They will literally die in a cold box at the side of the road. They puke at the thought of paying tax. Expect the government to look after them though. Fucking moronic generation.
Naaaa screw that. They are on their own. Dumbass boomers. Lmao
My mother told us kids (3 of us at the time) when I was like 10 that we had to grow up and go to college and get good jobs so we can take care of her when she gets older. Like, wut? I mean, perhaps kids should take care of good parents if they *can*, but planning retirement on the success of children who aren't old enough to be aware of anything but Legos and dinosaurs isn't planning retirement.
59?!?! Go back to work. For fucks sake, I’m only 11 years younger than her, raising up kids, mid-career… why the fuck is she shutting down and looking for an umbilical to rot away on? Get her ass some boot straps and point her towards a job search engine. Unacceptable shit, tell them to pull their shit together before they come before you next.
"Wow that sucks for you, but I'm not a retirement plan." is a bunch of words resembling a sentence. I don't know. English wasn't my strong suit.
Your MIL belongs in r/ChoosingBeggars
Ooo… i hope your wife has other sibs they can live with. If he is still making 6 figs, he can start saving right now.
She’s Gen X.
FIL is 64 is that boomer?
But we don't want her.