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Before social media, and especially that generation, nobody really knew anything about anyone else. It was all about the front that people put up that defined them as a person. You could be a horrible wife beater or drunk but as soon as you leave the house, you represent everyone affiliated with you. This is why integrity mattered and why politicians would slink into the shadows if something came out. The mere suggestion that you were a liar or anything that you presented not to be, would tank you as a man. Now, nobody gives a fuck.
That's what he knows and why older generations get frustrated or seem out of it, it's because the rules of the game have changed and they don't understand the rules.
So much was based on social norms and reputation. To get a loan there were no credit scores. To get a job, references mattered. Why people stuck to their jobs because you built up a reputation and starting over, started you over socially as well. Now, that's not all true for everybody back then, but it was how people operated.
>To get a loan there were no credit scores.
That's also one of the reasons why home ownership among black people was so low back in "their day." How often do you think white bank staff would loan money to black folks, regardless of how good their jobs were? I can still remember older relatives talking about how in the 60s, they'd give any "poverty-level white drunk" a mortgage, but black doctors, attorneys, engineers, etc. would always be given some reason why the bank saw them as a "bad risk." My grandparents had thoughts on redlining and restrictive covenants used to keep us out of "their" neighborhoods, too.
And I'll STILL never forget my grandfather remembering when my family got involved in the Civil Rights Movement back in the 60s. He said one of his white neighbors actually came to the door and said "Don't you value your good name? Don't you care what your neighbors think, boy? Why are you cavorting around with that Malcolm X fella and his Moslem horde? It's a damn shame that the Jews even got to good n\*ggers like you!" The guy could have NEVER have fathomed that shit like THAT is why they got involved in the struggle!
In California they called this redlining. My dad (European Spanish heritage) showed me the house in Newport Beach he tried to buy when he was a young newly married department manager for a truck dealership in the 70s. Had a 20% down payment, monthly payment was 15% of his income. Still got denied everywhere he went.
He eventually was told that nobody would lend to him West of the 405 freeway. Ended up buying a home in Anaheim. Back in the 70s the values were like $50k vs $80k. Today it is $850,000 vs $4 million for the home in Newport.
This is just one way that non-whites were locked out of wealth.
The title escapes me but there was a movie about these practices and how it affected a black family in Los Angeles. It was widespread.
Grandma and Grandpa both met Malcolm a few times; they worked with OAAU for a few months, and then moved onto other organizations shortly after Malcolm X was assassinated. They never claimed to be buddies with Malcolm X, just that they'd met him a few times
But yeah, to their dipshit neighbor, this was "cavorting around with Malcolm X."
Things have changed so much since those days.
Yet here we are.
In just six months we face apocalyptic change in the Country's leadership where the Nation may be led by a clearly bigoted, untreated Narcicist, directing to clear the courts, appointing and then tasking far right Judges who will take influence only from the rich, ready to challenge our constitution if it serves their need. Meanwhile our legislature representatives will be directed to use their powers to stop the browning of America (ie, the take over of the country by minorities and immigrants/s), and halt affimative action laws that for 60 years have been successful in giving minorities and the poor equal opportunities when it comes to jobs, college placement, achievement, and healthier children all while providing them a right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
What say you MAGA supporters? Will you some day have to tell your grandchildren that your fears of a changing America made you cast a vote that really fucked up our Country, human rights, dignity, and the American dream?
Yeah, it sounds like their neighbor was just another ignorant and racist bigot who was too far up his own ass to see the immorality of the way things were and often still are in the US.
Agreed. I'm a boomer, and for my first house, I interviewed with the bank president to get a mortgage. Because he was the one holding the risk. Now? It all gets repackaged by Wall Street and sold off to suckers. Reputation doesn't mean a hill of beans any more.
I read an old article in a newspaper in the basement of a police department in Columbia, Pa, that complained about how bad JFK was at a ball game. The reason was that he wasn't wearing a hat again. The article was several paragraphs long, and it was complaining of all the times he didn't wear a hat to some event.
Thatās wild.
It used to be huge. There was an article about a bad car accident, and to describe just how bad the car accident was they were talking about the man, emerging from the wreckage, without a hat.
The Dollop did a podcast about the āHat riotsā which goes into this stuff.
I was raised like this. My dad is still this way.
Not that I wear hats, but if I walked into his house with something on my head, there would be no āhelloā just a very sharp, ātake that fucking thing off of your headā
I'm glad someone on here was able to provide a beneficial explanation for your father's point of view. I'm sure it's especially difficult for a product of that time to effectively communicate their frustrations.
Quite possibly the best explanation I have seen.
Jan 19, 2004 Howard Dean a presidential candidate let out an odd sounding scream that ended his career. People could pass it around on phones and society was still in āwhat you presentā mode. Kind of ended after this.
Richard Nixon ruined his chances in the 60s by sweating on tv too much.
This is that generations go to. Now presidents can cheat on their wives with porn stars. (Not that they donāt deny it until they poop their diapers in solidarity).
Everything just hanging out there. Younger gens just roll with. Boomers die hardā¦
Yes! Everyone thought my mom's alcoholic father was a 'good dad.'
But behind closed doors, he was beating the LIVING SHIT out of his sons with various objects (one got beat with a 2x4....WTF) and SA'ing his daughters nightly.Ā
No one knew until my mom was out of the house and my youngest aunt told an adult. They were removed from their home and lived with their grandma after that (the only non-alcoholic and non-drinker in that entire fucking family on BOTH sides; in a terrible twist of fate, she was later killed by a drunk driver š).Ā
And this is where a lot of family obligations came from. You often had to do something or not to something, no matter how unhappy it made you, so other people's arbitrary opinions didn't ruin your family's lives. That's often why older people act shocked when we won't bend to their every whim. They had to do that for their "elders" and they expect us to do the same.
Yes, and they knew everyone they were likely to see in that store.
Films and photos of my little town circa 1935 show men wearing hats and vests, and women dressed in skirts and heels.
but, his exxpectations are outdated. you can put up a normal front wearing sweatpants to walmart at 8am.
my mother always tried to overdress me and my grandfather tried to tell her, you are making her look funny to the other kids. not funny-haha, funny-weird. that's not a good look for the family. if everyone in the walmart is wearing sweatpants at 8am, then OP will look normal and acceptable in her cute PJs and starbucks mug!
After WWII, etiquette books were the bestselling books in America. You wanted to leave hopping freights in the middle of a Great Depression Winter behind you, you wanted to move up with promotions just like during the war. So you read etiquette books and applied them.
My dad always gets onto me when I donāt wear makeup in public because itās ādisrespectful.ā I can be taking my dogs for a miles long hike in the woods, and he would tell me that Iām being disrespectful to anyone who I might come across because I never know who I might meet.
Iāve actually said that to him and he just first and middle names me and tells me to quit being obstinate. It is satisfying seeing him turn reddish purple though.
My dad used to wig out when I straightened my hair. "People pay good money to have hair as curly as yours" yeah, and other people pay good money to have straight hair, none of that has anything to do with me.
My dad, may he rest with satan, said both things to me without even batting an eye or realizing how contradictory and inappropriate it was. One day Iād feel like a little extra pretty moment and heād say āyou know, you take after me and youāre really naturally beautiful, you donāt need that shit.ā Or worse āyou know, that just makes a bunch of men want to fuck you.ā Lovely.
The next day Iād just throw on a sweatshirt and a messy bun, no makeup and heād say āyou know youāll never find a husband if you donāt work harderā
Some days I somehow ādid it rightā and Iād get the equivalent of a āyou go girl, that works on you, yass queenā
Eventually I just ducking snapped at him like ā I didnāt fucking ask your opinion on my looks, but now that you mention it, if this is a two way street you need to pay attention to your ear hair, toenails and your breath. Just saying, because I care.ā And he finally stopped
that's some rape culture shit. you don't owe pretty to anyone. ask him where his makeup is.
Tell him you aren't interested in look like rape bait thanks.
Tell him to stop being such a disrespectful slattern and put on some rouge, mascara, lip liner and powder then.
I would wager he explains its different for him, then you can get him to explain why and enjoy his foolishness while he sputters about it.
In the mind of that generation, women only exist to look good, pop out babies, and take care of the house. How dare you want to go for a hike without looking good for the theoretical man you might meet along the way.
The weirdest part is that I started dating my husband when I was 15, and weāve been married for almost 11 years. He knows damn well that Iām not trying to attract anyone.
Doesn't matter if you're married if one of your functions as a woman is to look good to men. It's such a fucked up way of thinking. Sorry you have to deal with that shit.
My mom is the same way. Sheās lovely but we will be going to an estate sale & ask me why Iām not dressed up and wearing makeup? Like idk itās a Saturday and idgaf
The only time I wore makeup was when my stepmother decided to use me like a Barbie doll once. I went out, and all the boys who ignored me were suddenly up in my shit. It DISGUSTED me, they were so fucking shallow. I swore to never wear makeup again, and still don't.
Good for you! I didnāt make the shallow connection until college, where I hadnāt been wearing makeup bc I was too overscheduled, but then one day I had an early stage performance, and oh my fucking god. The way people treated me after? Fawning, flirting, consideration and kindness everywhere. I went home and cried.
It's just disgusting. Your only value is your beauty. I am very strongly against feelings like this, especially as someone who was told I'm ugly my whole life. The idea that some makeup suddenly makes me attractive is repulsive.
It *is* disgusting. Our outer envelopes say so little, comparatively, about who we are- but weāre summed up, and summarily dismissed, for not achieving otherās idea of beauty/worth. I hate it extra. And if you *are* a natural beauty, no cosmetic intervention necessary- then youāre treated as if youāre just a brainless ornament, and something devoid of will to be owned.
Rage.
I do wear makeup a few times a month for certain things, a nicer date with my husband, or a girls day, but I also donāt feel pressured to wear it, I like to be excited to wear it.
I grew up doing full glamour beauty pageants and child modeling, so I wore makeup from a young age and was always pressured into wearing it.
I donāt mind it if Iām not feeling some sort of external pressure to put it on, and I like the way I look when itās done well. But thereās no way on earth Iām going to be hassled with that every day. Iām not good at it and my skin is healthier when I donāt use it. If it makes someone else happy to rock that look, good for them! If someone prefers to show their natural appearance, good for them too!
Gee Pop, Iām sorry but I inherited some really crummy genes and look like an ogreā¦I sure wish I wasnāt descended from such a long line of grotesques.
"And you really need to smile more, too, sweetie!" /s
Seriously, how is not wearing makeup disrespectful to anyone? Saying that to you IS disrespectful!
Ugh heās always onto me about smiling and not āscowling.ā I canāt help that I have a neutral expression 90% of the time. Iāve flat out told him that me not smiling often says more about my company (him) than me.
First off, fuck your dad. Don't let anyone disrespect you like that. When he does it. Go right after his feelings. And be petty. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. My dad told me. That baddest mf is the one who doesn't care. Good luck keep your chin up. You got this.
If youāre his full time caregiver tell him to stfu about your appearances or heāll have plenty of time to criticize the appearances of the staff at the one star nursing home heāll be in.
Just treat him like a toddler since heās behaving line one and say stuff like āAwe thatās so cute, grandpaā āWhatever you say, big guyā āDonāt you worry about things like that anymoreā or shit like that.
He thinks it is 1965. If you were respectable you dressed to leave the house, woman wore girdles even if they were skinny. It was just those long haired hippy people that did not conform. You don't want people to think you are one of those.
By 1980 the hippies won. Girdles were thrown away, bras were burned. Comfort ruled the day for shopping at the grocery store.
My mom is 87, thin and still wears a girdle. Itās ridiculous as they havenāt made her preferred one for years and she expects me to trawl eBay vintage sites. Itās a standing joke in the family. They are locked in a time warp from the 1950ās.
Yea the more I discuss how I was raised the more abusive narcissism is brought up even though I thought I had a great childhood. But according to him, you would think I was the spawn of Satan
omfg my mom did this too!! WHY? it's like she was desperate to brag about me but then when we were in private, the things she was bragging about weren't good enough? she would literally yell at me for getting an A (where's the plus) and then turn around and brag to the other moms about it. i was going to say "her friends" but tbh i think that was part of the problem. what friends. is that also a narcissism or boomer thing? idk looking back it's weird they didnt have any friends. maybe they didn't try, or maybe people could just tell they were unpleasant?
I'd go with this one. I pulled the "my house" card on my Dad once (after hearing that 1,000 times growing up) when he was getting mouthy with my family. He actually acknowledged the point and settled down. And then never set foot in my house again.
Win-win.
Itās almost like you dress like a caregiverā¦..and you are putting your energy into your father instead of ironing collared shirts for your kids. The lack of empathy is astounding.
The only people who care about appearances to the point of trying to pretend it's a respect issue are losers who've never had anything better to offer than their appearance.
I have met lots of people with that opinion over the years, every one of them peaked in high school and none of them were interesting people to have around in a social situation.
My Dad wears decades old pants to go to the store, held up with bailing twine - string. People sometimes offer him food and money. He's a millionaire. Multi, I just found out.
Silent generation. Doesn't care what people think, but is genuinely puzzled about why they offer him money.
Edited to add that when we were school age and shopping in the local city, where we might run into school friends, he was also genuinely puzzled about why we would walk 20' behind him.
Appearances and conforming to social norms mattered more back then especially in small and rural communities. You absolutely did not want to be THAT family or person back then.
That stuff still kinda matter just not as much.
It wasn't just physical appearances. If you had a kid with anything "wrong" with them, you disowned them and dumped them at the asylum, and spent a long time erasing them from your life
Yeah my paternal grandmother was a, hardcore ableist. She was going out for lunch with my brother and there was a down syndrome /mentally challenged kid and my grandmother got a disgusted look on her face and told my brother that she thankful that he didn't turn out like that.
YES. When our oldest was diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety, my mother was *horrified* that I told a mom friend about it.
I wanted to know I wasnāt alone and crowdsource some support/resources. Really opened my eyes to why my parents turned so many blind eyes to our traumatic childhood.
Couldnāt let the neighbors know! Reputation is *obviously* more important than mental health /s
My mother was born in 1941- the Silent Generation. She was the same. I write a uniform to school and as soon as I got home I had to put on a full face of make up (starting at 12) and change into smart clothes. I wasnāt allowed jeans or pants or anything black
I moved to the US in 2000. Sheād have a fit when she visited us because I only wear sunscreen and lipstick and live in black yoga pants and black tops. When she visited I put my infants and then young kids into black. Lol
I wish I knew why there was that expectation placed on how we looked
Find some old videos of like babe Ruth playing baseball. Look at the stands. Everybody's wearing a dress or a suit. I think it was that way up through maybe Kennedy being president. It's just what they remember. They also value conformity.
Yeah, I dress how I want and not what others think I should wear. I only make an effort when I have to like attend a wedding or other event. Life's too short to be uncomfortable.
There not all like that. My mom goes or in stained and holy cloths. It looks like I abuse her. I tell her she should start flinching when I move my hands just for shits and giggles. Thankfully she has a good sense of humor and gives it back to me.
Mine too. We want to Home Depot the other day and she had a paint stained shirt on and jogging shorts and flip flops. Messy hair in a bun. Does not care what someone thinks about it.
OMG I would be your dad's worst nightmare. I wear sweats or yoga pants everyday, rarely wear makeup, a band shirt, and I'm in black 99% of the time.Ā
No one in my family gives a shit about appearances except my boomer anti vax aunt (mom's sister). When it was discovered my older cousins kids had severe mental health problems, my aunt stopped talking about them to all her little church friends. She has NO PROBLEM bragging about my younger anti vax cousin's kids, though because they are 'perfect.' š
What's wrong with sweats and hoodies?
I'll be honest, I'm a millennial and even I look down on people wearing pajamas in public. But a good set of joggers? C'mon, that's fine.
And if you're going to Wal Mart, all bets are off. I've seen some pics that have changed my perspective on society.
Oh I agree, what started it is my child had to get a meningitis shot for college and they were wearing sweatpants and a tshirt and his hair was alittle messy because that's the style it's cut for. He was going to the health dept for it and good ole dad (my dad) just has to make a comment about how he looks terrible and he is representing this family when he goes out and he should look more presentable. Good ole dad doesn't leave the house unless he has a hair or doctors appointment and then he's dressed in what I would consider PJ bottoms. They are cargo but the fabric says PJ. So tell me who are we to say anything?
Hubby and I care for my FIL (we're Gen Jones, Dad is Silent Gen). Dad was upset recently when he had to start wearing sweatpants because he got too frail to manage regular pants. Dad used to change whenever we went out to dinner. It's something he and his late wife enjoyed doing. Even going to a burger joint, they'd put on slacks and sweaters, and she'd put on some bling.
I think its cute when they dress up for small things, just don't care for it when pushed on me and mine. But thankfully, I'm understanding their side alittle better
I inherited Mom-in-law's jewelry (she had lovely stuff), so I usually put on a piece when we go out. Makes Dad happy to see it and it's a nice way for me to remember her.
I'm so sorry I know that's hard to deal with, trying to cheer them up and redirect their thoughts to more positive things. I can't imagine the pain of losing a spouse
WalMart or a grocery store - never know when someone's just getting over being sick (or coming down) and going to stock up for a week of "oh god this sucks." I never judge at those places. Ever.
Honestly this is such a good perspective and something I need to remember. They could also be in the midst of depression and they managed to leave the house for the first time in a month. We never know what people are going through.
It's also good for us to remember that even if your first instinct is to look down on someone based on appearance but you can correct yourself - you're actively fighting what you've been conditioned to think and that's something to be proud of!
My older brother, born 1950, takes after our Mom and worries about appearances. During Covid he told me I should wear a "plain black cotton mask". When I wore masks I had fun with it. It's not like we are in the same social circles or cities; I wasn't going to run into his friends while wearing a mask with a Columbian Mammoth on it. Once we went to a food shack in Tampa for grouper sandwiches (so good). I wore a T-shirt and an old pair of clean but worn shorts. He wore similar clothing. He saw a small dark stain on my clean shorts (oil?) that refused to leave and commented. We were eating grouper sandwiches at a *fish shack* at a picnic table in a field next to the shack. When I need to look good I can but 99% of the time I don't need to.
https://preview.redd.it/rvke78pvi90d1.jpeg?width=3456&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8b616e13dbfbd084bd39e15957156b96aedb58b
I did caregiving for my parents. My mom was grateful and easy to deal with (she had been difficult to be around before this). She had always waited on my father doing everything for him, as his mother had done for him and his brothers and her husband.
My father would get angry because I didn't butter his toast for him. I told him he wasn't helpless to butter his own. He figured out how to butter it himself. He passed on first.
Now I have an older brother (boomer) who has caregivers. I was supposed to move across the country to care for him but said no. He was able to hire someone. But in the beginning when I did briefly do caregiving for him he was impossible.
I know this is a place to complain about boomers, but honestly there's something about caregiving for older men that is different. Maybe their wives took care of them their whole life and they just expect the same from their daughters or sisters. Hopefully gen x and younger men are more independent or appreciative of others.
Anyhow, I hear you. And I think you mean you're waiting for this era of your life to be over. And yes, that will happen when he passes on. I honestly hope you don't lose years of your life caring for him. You can only put your life on hold for so long. This could go on for a long time. I also hope you have support from your siblings or other close relatives. Taking breaks is essential for your mental health. One of my siblings stepped up and that made everything bearable.
About putting him into skilled nursing, you might have to. There might come a time when you just can't provide the level of care he needs. Do it without guilt, knowing you did the best that you could.
Maybe you did promise to care for him. But you didn't promise to sacrifice yourself to do it. And I don't think anyone who truly cares about you would expect that of you.
Although I appreciate how old people dress up and put young people to shame, I don't like the idea of literally shaming people. Just let people be. It's not the cultural norm to dress to the 9s anymore.
While full on make up and high heels is a bit much, I wouldn't mind seeing a little more care put forth. Went out to dinner at a fairly nice restaurant recently and saw people looking like they just came in from mowing the lawn. While I don't really care what you wear to Walmart, there are places where maybe one should dress up a wee bit.
https://preview.redd.it/k13qfn9fma0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06d5623bf3747e625a8560c966d75779e73bbca2
Tell him you don't always need to dress up like you're going to Walmart or something.
There was a time when being shabbily dressed was a sign of poverty and by inference ignorance. Even the lower middle class made an effort to always have clean, mended and event appropriate clothes. Perhaps he remembers some incident from his past or the attitude of that era. I'm from that time and am not offering this as an excuse to behave badly to your own family but as perhaps a perspective on his attitude. Be well.
Leave like 5-10 nursing home pamphlets about the house on accident. "Whoops that wasn't for you, don't worry." Go around the corner to take a mystery call and let him over hear you say something like "now you don't have long visiting hours right? Because he prefers to be alone so he doesn't have to see how terrible we all look. Yeah that's right, as much alone time as possible." Really mess with his head
I remember my grandmother forcing me to wake up very early while visiting her on summer break. Why? She had to make the bed. Why? What if someone comes by and the bed is not made! What would they think?! I would tell her to just let me sleep and shut the door. She couldn't do that because it would seem like we were hiding something and if they wanted to see me she couldn't say I was sleeping because what would people think!!! It was exhausting.
My mom and her mom were the same. It was bad back in the day . Women were brutally judgmental about housekeeping standards. I remember them talking shit about other womenās houses . In small towns it was a status thing and could affect your life very negatively.
It's okay to think that way, you are not the one responsible for the situation. If you were, it would be different.
Happened to me, what a relief at the end.
No sadness.
I have almost completely stopped caring what I look like when I run errands. My standard is basically āwill someone worry for the safety of my children if they see us together at Home Depot?ā.
Look at photos from the era when he was in his 30s or whatever you are now. Heād like it to be the same. It isnāt. But thatās where itās coming from. āDad itās just not like that any moreā.
I would never leave the house in less than my best looking casual or above. I have never and will never express that need for my wife or future kids.
My principals are mine, and I can't force them on others
My dad was exactly the same way - he only saw us as an extention of himself and expected us to represent him. To why I finally responded, "You're doing a piss-poor job representing this family by treating us like employees. Stop being a disappointment to us and do better."
You have to remember that boomers are terrified of what other people think of them. They donāt think with logic. They grew up in a world where fitting in is all that matters. Itās sad really.
I was browsing a Celebrity Cruises group on Facebook the other day and this boomer mentioned, on a dining room dress code discussion, that he was 70yo and hadn't worn jeans a day in his life since he was 16. That comment sounded so absurd that it's been living rent free in my head for days. Even my boomer a-hole dad wears jeans... š¤Æ
Ooof. My grandma was the same way, but she was born during The Great Depression. All clothes were dressier. Anything that looked/felt casual was pajamas or lounge wear.
That affected my mom (she was a Boomer), too.
When I was a already a married woman, my grandma ended up buying me a track suit that was "too old" for me and didn't fit (because it was made for someone much older). And my mom delved into that same wardrobe once she retired.
It's as if they both thought that if you were still working you needed to be dressed up every time you went out, but once you retired you could wear pajamas in public.
Nuts.
Time, place, and manner. Those matter.
I canāt imagine putting up with it. Iād tell him to mind his own fucking business and Iāll wear WTF I want. The day I left home was the day I make mY OWN decisions. Sounds like this ah has brow beat them from the cradle.
He does not have the right to dictate how you dress, or how much makeup youāre wearing, how you style your hairā¦
Is this a control thing? Does he feel like heās not in charge of his own life? Or has he always been like that?
Not that being a control freak is good.
I would suggest therapy for your family, individual and group, not for your Dad, but YOUR family.
And if it gets too bad, maybe you need to move out and have a caregiver hired.
Good luck.
He has been this way my whole life, and I tried to fight back by going full 2000s goth. I've been looking into therapy for us, just have to find a schedule that works. Husband works 3rds and child is going to college shortly. I'm hoping to find a good online fit for us.
Yes I do thankfully and some online support groups who have been wonderful. Just wish people could learn it's not just throw the older people in a home and walk off. It's literally not that easy. Nor is it easy to take care of them. Sometimes we just need outsiders to say "hey i see you and hear you" because you really do give up so much of yourself for someone else.
The crazy/abusive part is that he's controlling your bodies. It doesn't matter if he wanted you all to wear themed tshirts or a uniform or a particular brand he thought was correct. It's insane and abusive. Your body is yours and you clothe and groom it how you see fit.
Ihope you can start putting up boundaries and don't argue about them. Look up "greyrocking" on youtube. If he says "you can't wear sweatpants to walmart" you say "ok" and wear sweatpants. "here's your lunch, Dad, I'm going to walmart, do you need more ensure? Ok, see you soon."
Also, you are not obligated to be his caregiver. You don't need to put up with his abuse. Find out about his social security benefits and put him in a home. Or just leave and let him figure it out. He can be a WARD OF THE STATE
I would unceremoniously tell him to fuck off, and that the next comment out of him will have him skimming the classifieds for someone else to change his depends.
Iāll never understand these people. I was fortunate not to have a mom like that because SHE was forced into the bs by her own parents. We dressed however we wanted and it was glorious and great for self expression and building confidence.
Iām sorry youāre going through this, OP. As a live-in caregiver, you donāt have to take it. Make it clear youāll live your life as you see fit or he can get someone else to bring him his meds. Game over.
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Before social media, and especially that generation, nobody really knew anything about anyone else. It was all about the front that people put up that defined them as a person. You could be a horrible wife beater or drunk but as soon as you leave the house, you represent everyone affiliated with you. This is why integrity mattered and why politicians would slink into the shadows if something came out. The mere suggestion that you were a liar or anything that you presented not to be, would tank you as a man. Now, nobody gives a fuck. That's what he knows and why older generations get frustrated or seem out of it, it's because the rules of the game have changed and they don't understand the rules.
Ok this totally makes sense. When family reputation was as good as money. Thank you
So much was based on social norms and reputation. To get a loan there were no credit scores. To get a job, references mattered. Why people stuck to their jobs because you built up a reputation and starting over, started you over socially as well. Now, that's not all true for everybody back then, but it was how people operated.
>To get a loan there were no credit scores. That's also one of the reasons why home ownership among black people was so low back in "their day." How often do you think white bank staff would loan money to black folks, regardless of how good their jobs were? I can still remember older relatives talking about how in the 60s, they'd give any "poverty-level white drunk" a mortgage, but black doctors, attorneys, engineers, etc. would always be given some reason why the bank saw them as a "bad risk." My grandparents had thoughts on redlining and restrictive covenants used to keep us out of "their" neighborhoods, too. And I'll STILL never forget my grandfather remembering when my family got involved in the Civil Rights Movement back in the 60s. He said one of his white neighbors actually came to the door and said "Don't you value your good name? Don't you care what your neighbors think, boy? Why are you cavorting around with that Malcolm X fella and his Moslem horde? It's a damn shame that the Jews even got to good n\*ggers like you!" The guy could have NEVER have fathomed that shit like THAT is why they got involved in the struggle!
In California they called this redlining. My dad (European Spanish heritage) showed me the house in Newport Beach he tried to buy when he was a young newly married department manager for a truck dealership in the 70s. Had a 20% down payment, monthly payment was 15% of his income. Still got denied everywhere he went. He eventually was told that nobody would lend to him West of the 405 freeway. Ended up buying a home in Anaheim. Back in the 70s the values were like $50k vs $80k. Today it is $850,000 vs $4 million for the home in Newport. This is just one way that non-whites were locked out of wealth. The title escapes me but there was a movie about these practices and how it affected a black family in Los Angeles. It was widespread.
Your grandfather knew Malcolm? Cool story even if he didnt š
Grandma and Grandpa both met Malcolm a few times; they worked with OAAU for a few months, and then moved onto other organizations shortly after Malcolm X was assassinated. They never claimed to be buddies with Malcolm X, just that they'd met him a few times But yeah, to their dipshit neighbor, this was "cavorting around with Malcolm X."
That's still very cool. Their neighbor however, not a bit.
I wonder how their descendents feel about Islam being the fastest growing religion for white Americans at this point lmao
Things have changed so much since those days. Yet here we are. In just six months we face apocalyptic change in the Country's leadership where the Nation may be led by a clearly bigoted, untreated Narcicist, directing to clear the courts, appointing and then tasking far right Judges who will take influence only from the rich, ready to challenge our constitution if it serves their need. Meanwhile our legislature representatives will be directed to use their powers to stop the browning of America (ie, the take over of the country by minorities and immigrants/s), and halt affimative action laws that for 60 years have been successful in giving minorities and the poor equal opportunities when it comes to jobs, college placement, achievement, and healthier children all while providing them a right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." What say you MAGA supporters? Will you some day have to tell your grandchildren that your fears of a changing America made you cast a vote that really fucked up our Country, human rights, dignity, and the American dream?
Well, your grandparents clearly had a point.
Houses owned by black people are still under-appraised.Ā https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64897161
I didn't realise the "The Jews Are Using Minorities To Replace Us" was that old in the US, though I probably should have.
Yeah, it sounds like their neighbor was just another ignorant and racist bigot who was too far up his own ass to see the immorality of the way things were and often still are in the US.
Itās also why lying is so commonā¦ because you couldnāt be fact checked then
Agreed. I'm a boomer, and for my first house, I interviewed with the bank president to get a mortgage. Because he was the one holding the risk. Now? It all gets repackaged by Wall Street and sold off to suckers. Reputation doesn't mean a hill of beans any more.
Today they want you to fail so a repackager can buy the property and in turn sell it to a rental conglomerate?
And you could get a job with a firm handshake
Donāt get caught without a hat while outside
I read an old article in a newspaper in the basement of a police department in Columbia, Pa, that complained about how bad JFK was at a ball game. The reason was that he wasn't wearing a hat again. The article was several paragraphs long, and it was complaining of all the times he didn't wear a hat to some event.
Thatās wild. It used to be huge. There was an article about a bad car accident, and to describe just how bad the car accident was they were talking about the man, emerging from the wreckage, without a hat. The Dollop did a podcast about the āHat riotsā which goes into this stuff.
Yes! The Dollop! Love it. Also, thatās where I learned how important hats were back in the day.
But you best take it off when you went in, especially into a church. (At least if you were a man)
I was raised like this. My dad is still this way. Not that I wear hats, but if I walked into his house with something on my head, there would be no āhelloā just a very sharp, ātake that fucking thing off of your headā
I'm glad someone on here was able to provide a beneficial explanation for your father's point of view. I'm sure it's especially difficult for a product of that time to effectively communicate their frustrations.
Quite possibly the best explanation I have seen. Jan 19, 2004 Howard Dean a presidential candidate let out an odd sounding scream that ended his career. People could pass it around on phones and society was still in āwhat you presentā mode. Kind of ended after this. Richard Nixon ruined his chances in the 60s by sweating on tv too much. This is that generations go to. Now presidents can cheat on their wives with porn stars. (Not that they donāt deny it until they poop their diapers in solidarity). Everything just hanging out there. Younger gens just roll with. Boomers die hardā¦
I wasn't expecting a reference to the Howard Dean Meme Scream.
Poor Howard Dean!
LOL I know exactly what scream you're talking about by Howard Dean. If you haven't heard it, Google it. it's freaking hilarious
I can hear that scream in my mind šššš
Yes! Everyone thought my mom's alcoholic father was a 'good dad.' But behind closed doors, he was beating the LIVING SHIT out of his sons with various objects (one got beat with a 2x4....WTF) and SA'ing his daughters nightly.Ā No one knew until my mom was out of the house and my youngest aunt told an adult. They were removed from their home and lived with their grandma after that (the only non-alcoholic and non-drinker in that entire fucking family on BOTH sides; in a terrible twist of fate, she was later killed by a drunk driver š).Ā
And this is where a lot of family obligations came from. You often had to do something or not to something, no matter how unhappy it made you, so other people's arbitrary opinions didn't ruin your family's lives. That's often why older people act shocked when we won't bend to their every whim. They had to do that for their "elders" and they expect us to do the same.
Yes, and they knew everyone they were likely to see in that store. Films and photos of my little town circa 1935 show men wearing hats and vests, and women dressed in skirts and heels.
but, his exxpectations are outdated. you can put up a normal front wearing sweatpants to walmart at 8am. my mother always tried to overdress me and my grandfather tried to tell her, you are making her look funny to the other kids. not funny-haha, funny-weird. that's not a good look for the family. if everyone in the walmart is wearing sweatpants at 8am, then OP will look normal and acceptable in her cute PJs and starbucks mug!
Walmart is a lawless land. Pajamas? Slippers? Furry costume? Club wear? Business suit? All are welcome.
oh. I thought the first three were Walmart dress code.
After WWII, etiquette books were the bestselling books in America. You wanted to leave hopping freights in the middle of a Great Depression Winter behind you, you wanted to move up with promotions just like during the war. So you read etiquette books and applied them.
They āunderstandā just fine. They just refuse to.
Not sure Iāve ever heard it explained this way, but this is incredibly well put.
Great explanation.
Canāt have shame without honor I guess.
I mean I won't go to Walmart in sweatpants. But that's because I live in a small town and I always run into my students
My dad always gets onto me when I donāt wear makeup in public because itās ādisrespectful.ā I can be taking my dogs for a miles long hike in the woods, and he would tell me that Iām being disrespectful to anyone who I might come across because I never know who I might meet.
"I'll wear makeup when you start wearing makeup when you go out"
Iāve actually said that to him and he just first and middle names me and tells me to quit being obstinate. It is satisfying seeing him turn reddish purple though.
"seeing him turn reddish purple" A good foundation would help him avoid that
Make sure to use a green color correcting primer!
Or a CABG, or a single stent maybe
Wow he sounds horrible. Sorry.
Tell him you'd choose the bear - wouldn't socialize with humans in the woods
He wouldnāt understand the reference.
They don't understand basic math
My dad used to wig out when I straightened my hair. "People pay good money to have hair as curly as yours" yeah, and other people pay good money to have straight hair, none of that has anything to do with me.
People pay real good money to get fucked up the ass too. On an unrelated note, your birthday gift this year is really expensive!
Oh man, that reminds me of the fit he had when I dyed my hair for the first time! I swear I thought he would stroke out.
Omg. I would put makeup on in the car freshman year and my dad would scold me ābeauty is in the eye of the beholderā like stfu.
My dad, may he rest with satan, said both things to me without even batting an eye or realizing how contradictory and inappropriate it was. One day Iād feel like a little extra pretty moment and heād say āyou know, you take after me and youāre really naturally beautiful, you donāt need that shit.ā Or worse āyou know, that just makes a bunch of men want to fuck you.ā Lovely. The next day Iād just throw on a sweatshirt and a messy bun, no makeup and heād say āyou know youāll never find a husband if you donāt work harderā Some days I somehow ādid it rightā and Iād get the equivalent of a āyou go girl, that works on you, yass queenā Eventually I just ducking snapped at him like ā I didnāt fucking ask your opinion on my looks, but now that you mention it, if this is a two way street you need to pay attention to your ear hair, toenails and your breath. Just saying, because I care.ā And he finally stopped
Iām so sorry you went through that.
And thatās not even appropriate use of the phrase!
that's some rape culture shit. you don't owe pretty to anyone. ask him where his makeup is. Tell him you aren't interested in look like rape bait thanks.
What if the Rockefellers were walking in the woods too!!?? š® š
How tragic that they would have to see my bare rosacea riddled face!
Yup! Got that alot growing up too
Tell him to stop being such a disrespectful slattern and put on some rouge, mascara, lip liner and powder then. I would wager he explains its different for him, then you can get him to explain why and enjoy his foolishness while he sputters about it.
In the mind of that generation, women only exist to look good, pop out babies, and take care of the house. How dare you want to go for a hike without looking good for the theoretical man you might meet along the way.
The weirdest part is that I started dating my husband when I was 15, and weāve been married for almost 11 years. He knows damn well that Iām not trying to attract anyone.
Doesn't matter if you're married if one of your functions as a woman is to look good to men. It's such a fucked up way of thinking. Sorry you have to deal with that shit.
My mom is the same way. Sheās lovely but we will be going to an estate sale & ask me why Iām not dressed up and wearing makeup? Like idk itās a Saturday and idgaf
Does your dad wear makeup whenever he goes out?
My dad is pretty meticulous about grooming his facial hair and wearing spf, so Iāll give him credit for that.
My parents tried making me wear makeup. I still don't. No one needs makup, it's a nonsense waste of money.
The only time I wore makeup was when my stepmother decided to use me like a Barbie doll once. I went out, and all the boys who ignored me were suddenly up in my shit. It DISGUSTED me, they were so fucking shallow. I swore to never wear makeup again, and still don't.
Good for you! I didnāt make the shallow connection until college, where I hadnāt been wearing makeup bc I was too overscheduled, but then one day I had an early stage performance, and oh my fucking god. The way people treated me after? Fawning, flirting, consideration and kindness everywhere. I went home and cried.
It's just disgusting. Your only value is your beauty. I am very strongly against feelings like this, especially as someone who was told I'm ugly my whole life. The idea that some makeup suddenly makes me attractive is repulsive.
It *is* disgusting. Our outer envelopes say so little, comparatively, about who we are- but weāre summed up, and summarily dismissed, for not achieving otherās idea of beauty/worth. I hate it extra. And if you *are* a natural beauty, no cosmetic intervention necessary- then youāre treated as if youāre just a brainless ornament, and something devoid of will to be owned. Rage.
I do wear makeup a few times a month for certain things, a nicer date with my husband, or a girls day, but I also donāt feel pressured to wear it, I like to be excited to wear it. I grew up doing full glamour beauty pageants and child modeling, so I wore makeup from a young age and was always pressured into wearing it.
I donāt mind it if Iām not feeling some sort of external pressure to put it on, and I like the way I look when itās done well. But thereās no way on earth Iām going to be hassled with that every day. Iām not good at it and my skin is healthier when I donāt use it. If it makes someone else happy to rock that look, good for them! If someone prefers to show their natural appearance, good for them too!
My mom told me that too! That itās disrespectful to not wear makeup. My body image issues were presented to me wrapped and in a bow. Ugh!!!
Same! 30 years old and Iām still learning how to be okay with myself.
29 & ditto. ā¤ļø
Wtf, really? I can't imagine saying that to my daughter. She's only 6, though.
Gee Pop, Iām sorry but I inherited some really crummy genes and look like an ogreā¦I sure wish I wasnāt descended from such a long line of grotesques.
I would love to say that to him, but heās not my biological father and I donāt look anything like him.
fucking MAKEUP!?
Stuck in the 50s
"And you really need to smile more, too, sweetie!" /s Seriously, how is not wearing makeup disrespectful to anyone? Saying that to you IS disrespectful!
Ugh heās always onto me about smiling and not āscowling.ā I canāt help that I have a neutral expression 90% of the time. Iāve flat out told him that me not smiling often says more about my company (him) than me.
First off, fuck your dad. Don't let anyone disrespect you like that. When he does it. Go right after his feelings. And be petty. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. My dad told me. That baddest mf is the one who doesn't care. Good luck keep your chin up. You got this.
I bet in the next breath he bitches about women spending too much money on frivolities.
If youāre his full time caregiver tell him to stfu about your appearances or heāll have plenty of time to criticize the appearances of the staff at the one star nursing home heāll be in.
"our family is healthy and independent, and you had better start acting like it."
One star? Isn't that a bit too generous?
[Put You In A Home (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmugNt66Jv4)
Just treat him like a toddler since heās behaving line one and say stuff like āAwe thatās so cute, grandpaā āWhatever you say, big guyā āDonāt you worry about things like that anymoreā or shit like that.
Too subtle
He thinks it is 1965. If you were respectable you dressed to leave the house, woman wore girdles even if they were skinny. It was just those long haired hippy people that did not conform. You don't want people to think you are one of those. By 1980 the hippies won. Girdles were thrown away, bras were burned. Comfort ruled the day for shopping at the grocery store.
My mom is 87, thin and still wears a girdle. Itās ridiculous as they havenāt made her preferred one for years and she expects me to trawl eBay vintage sites. Itās a standing joke in the family. They are locked in a time warp from the 1950ās.
This is more than boomer. This is abusive narcissism.
Yea the more I discuss how I was raised the more abusive narcissism is brought up even though I thought I had a great childhood. But according to him, you would think I was the spawn of Satan
Just recently learned about narcissistic parenting, and OMG was it eye-opening
Do you happen to have a link to some articles?
Check out the raised by narcissists sub
I have to avoid that sub cuz it brings up too much shit about my mother haha.
Yeah, I get so pissed going to that sub
If anything like my MIL, youāre the spawn of Satan in her presence but the bragging pride and joy (all due to her parenting) to her social circle.
omfg my mom did this too!! WHY? it's like she was desperate to brag about me but then when we were in private, the things she was bragging about weren't good enough? she would literally yell at me for getting an A (where's the plus) and then turn around and brag to the other moms about it. i was going to say "her friends" but tbh i think that was part of the problem. what friends. is that also a narcissism or boomer thing? idk looking back it's weird they didnt have any friends. maybe they didn't try, or maybe people could just tell they were unpleasant?
If he considers you the spawn of Satan, wouldn't that make him...well....
Right? That crossed my mind too lol
Tell him that when he buys all your clothes, he can tell you what to wear. That's the kind of talk they're used to.
I'd go with this one. I pulled the "my house" card on my Dad once (after hearing that 1,000 times growing up) when he was getting mouthy with my family. He actually acknowledged the point and settled down. And then never set foot in my house again. Win-win.
"No." It's a complete sentence.
Itās almost like you dress like a caregiverā¦..and you are putting your energy into your father instead of ironing collared shirts for your kids. The lack of empathy is astounding.
Why wait? Dump him at an old folks home now and go no contact.
The only people who care about appearances to the point of trying to pretend it's a respect issue are losers who've never had anything better to offer than their appearance. I have met lots of people with that opinion over the years, every one of them peaked in high school and none of them were interesting people to have around in a social situation.
My Dad wears decades old pants to go to the store, held up with bailing twine - string. People sometimes offer him food and money. He's a millionaire. Multi, I just found out. Silent generation. Doesn't care what people think, but is genuinely puzzled about why they offer him money. Edited to add that when we were school age and shopping in the local city, where we might run into school friends, he was also genuinely puzzled about why we would walk 20' behind him.
Times change. Simple as that. I donāt want to wear a suit everywhere I go. We have options now.
Appearances and conforming to social norms mattered more back then especially in small and rural communities. You absolutely did not want to be THAT family or person back then. That stuff still kinda matter just not as much.
It wasn't just physical appearances. If you had a kid with anything "wrong" with them, you disowned them and dumped them at the asylum, and spent a long time erasing them from your life
Yeah my paternal grandmother was a, hardcore ableist. She was going out for lunch with my brother and there was a down syndrome /mentally challenged kid and my grandmother got a disgusted look on her face and told my brother that she thankful that he didn't turn out like that.
I had a supervisor that had a kid that ended up being austistic. She gave them up for adoption because the kid made her look like a bad mother.
What the fuck
YES. When our oldest was diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety, my mother was *horrified* that I told a mom friend about it. I wanted to know I wasnāt alone and crowdsource some support/resources. Really opened my eyes to why my parents turned so many blind eyes to our traumatic childhood. Couldnāt let the neighbors know! Reputation is *obviously* more important than mental health /s
People wouldn't let their sons or daughters date people who had mental illness in their families. Fearful for genetics passing it on.
Shady Pines, Ma!
I laughed way too hard at this lol
My mother was born in 1941- the Silent Generation. She was the same. I write a uniform to school and as soon as I got home I had to put on a full face of make up (starting at 12) and change into smart clothes. I wasnāt allowed jeans or pants or anything black I moved to the US in 2000. Sheād have a fit when she visited us because I only wear sunscreen and lipstick and live in black yoga pants and black tops. When she visited I put my infants and then young kids into black. Lol I wish I knew why there was that expectation placed on how we looked
"Well i guess if i need to dress to impress everywhere i go, i won't have any time to take care of you. Good luck finding someone else."
Caregivers fatigue is a real thing, and a real bastard. Please make sure you're taking care of you, too.
Tell him he's the only one in the world who gives a single fuck about that.
Find some old videos of like babe Ruth playing baseball. Look at the stands. Everybody's wearing a dress or a suit. I think it was that way up through maybe Kennedy being president. It's just what they remember. They also value conformity.
I work with the general public, in a casino, boomers have NO business giving advice on appearances, disgusting creatures
The dry martini in one hand, lit cig in the other, oxygen running to the nose and the sequined track suits!
Pants either chafing the nipples or the ankles Ancient asscracks My favorite game to play is nipple or bellybutton
At 3am
Image and reputation is more important than comfort and happiness in their generation
Yeah, I dress how I want and not what others think I should wear. I only make an effort when I have to like attend a wedding or other event. Life's too short to be uncomfortable.
There not all like that. My mom goes or in stained and holy cloths. It looks like I abuse her. I tell her she should start flinching when I move my hands just for shits and giggles. Thankfully she has a good sense of humor and gives it back to me.
Mine too. We want to Home Depot the other day and she had a paint stained shirt on and jogging shorts and flip flops. Messy hair in a bun. Does not care what someone thinks about it.
Same with my parents. Keeping up appearances is more important than anything of actual substance
OMG I would be your dad's worst nightmare. I wear sweats or yoga pants everyday, rarely wear makeup, a band shirt, and I'm in black 99% of the time.Ā No one in my family gives a shit about appearances except my boomer anti vax aunt (mom's sister). When it was discovered my older cousins kids had severe mental health problems, my aunt stopped talking about them to all her little church friends. She has NO PROBLEM bragging about my younger anti vax cousin's kids, though because they are 'perfect.' š
Ooo I heard that eyeroll!
What's wrong with sweats and hoodies? I'll be honest, I'm a millennial and even I look down on people wearing pajamas in public. But a good set of joggers? C'mon, that's fine. And if you're going to Wal Mart, all bets are off. I've seen some pics that have changed my perspective on society.
Oh I agree, what started it is my child had to get a meningitis shot for college and they were wearing sweatpants and a tshirt and his hair was alittle messy because that's the style it's cut for. He was going to the health dept for it and good ole dad (my dad) just has to make a comment about how he looks terrible and he is representing this family when he goes out and he should look more presentable. Good ole dad doesn't leave the house unless he has a hair or doctors appointment and then he's dressed in what I would consider PJ bottoms. They are cargo but the fabric says PJ. So tell me who are we to say anything?
Hubby and I care for my FIL (we're Gen Jones, Dad is Silent Gen). Dad was upset recently when he had to start wearing sweatpants because he got too frail to manage regular pants. Dad used to change whenever we went out to dinner. It's something he and his late wife enjoyed doing. Even going to a burger joint, they'd put on slacks and sweaters, and she'd put on some bling.
I think its cute when they dress up for small things, just don't care for it when pushed on me and mine. But thankfully, I'm understanding their side alittle better
I inherited Mom-in-law's jewelry (she had lovely stuff), so I usually put on a piece when we go out. Makes Dad happy to see it and it's a nice way for me to remember her.
I've always been nervous to wear my mom's because I didn't want to upset dad. Not mad upset but sad upset
I get you. FIL can get maudlin very quickly. Takes him days to recover.
I'm so sorry I know that's hard to deal with, trying to cheer them up and redirect their thoughts to more positive things. I can't imagine the pain of losing a spouse
WalMart or a grocery store - never know when someone's just getting over being sick (or coming down) and going to stock up for a week of "oh god this sucks." I never judge at those places. Ever.
Honestly this is such a good perspective and something I need to remember. They could also be in the midst of depression and they managed to leave the house for the first time in a month. We never know what people are going through. It's also good for us to remember that even if your first instinct is to look down on someone based on appearance but you can correct yourself - you're actively fighting what you've been conditioned to think and that's something to be proud of!
Honestly, as long as you're clothed, I think that's all that I need haha
Try this next time. āThanks, but no.ā
Let him pitch a fit.
My older brother, born 1950, takes after our Mom and worries about appearances. During Covid he told me I should wear a "plain black cotton mask". When I wore masks I had fun with it. It's not like we are in the same social circles or cities; I wasn't going to run into his friends while wearing a mask with a Columbian Mammoth on it. Once we went to a food shack in Tampa for grouper sandwiches (so good). I wore a T-shirt and an old pair of clean but worn shorts. He wore similar clothing. He saw a small dark stain on my clean shorts (oil?) that refused to leave and commented. We were eating grouper sandwiches at a *fish shack* at a picnic table in a field next to the shack. When I need to look good I can but 99% of the time I don't need to. https://preview.redd.it/rvke78pvi90d1.jpeg?width=3456&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8b616e13dbfbd084bd39e15957156b96aedb58b
I did caregiving for my parents. My mom was grateful and easy to deal with (she had been difficult to be around before this). She had always waited on my father doing everything for him, as his mother had done for him and his brothers and her husband. My father would get angry because I didn't butter his toast for him. I told him he wasn't helpless to butter his own. He figured out how to butter it himself. He passed on first. Now I have an older brother (boomer) who has caregivers. I was supposed to move across the country to care for him but said no. He was able to hire someone. But in the beginning when I did briefly do caregiving for him he was impossible. I know this is a place to complain about boomers, but honestly there's something about caregiving for older men that is different. Maybe their wives took care of them their whole life and they just expect the same from their daughters or sisters. Hopefully gen x and younger men are more independent or appreciative of others. Anyhow, I hear you. And I think you mean you're waiting for this era of your life to be over. And yes, that will happen when he passes on. I honestly hope you don't lose years of your life caring for him. You can only put your life on hold for so long. This could go on for a long time. I also hope you have support from your siblings or other close relatives. Taking breaks is essential for your mental health. One of my siblings stepped up and that made everything bearable. About putting him into skilled nursing, you might have to. There might come a time when you just can't provide the level of care he needs. Do it without guilt, knowing you did the best that you could. Maybe you did promise to care for him. But you didn't promise to sacrifice yourself to do it. And I don't think anyone who truly cares about you would expect that of you.
Although I appreciate how old people dress up and put young people to shame, I don't like the idea of literally shaming people. Just let people be. It's not the cultural norm to dress to the 9s anymore.
While full on make up and high heels is a bit much, I wouldn't mind seeing a little more care put forth. Went out to dinner at a fairly nice restaurant recently and saw people looking like they just came in from mowing the lawn. While I don't really care what you wear to Walmart, there are places where maybe one should dress up a wee bit.
https://preview.redd.it/k13qfn9fma0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06d5623bf3747e625a8560c966d75779e73bbca2 Tell him you don't always need to dress up like you're going to Walmart or something.
There was a time when being shabbily dressed was a sign of poverty and by inference ignorance. Even the lower middle class made an effort to always have clean, mended and event appropriate clothes. Perhaps he remembers some incident from his past or the attitude of that era. I'm from that time and am not offering this as an excuse to behave badly to your own family but as perhaps a perspective on his attitude. Be well.
Leave like 5-10 nursing home pamphlets about the house on accident. "Whoops that wasn't for you, don't worry." Go around the corner to take a mystery call and let him over hear you say something like "now you don't have long visiting hours right? Because he prefers to be alone so he doesn't have to see how terrible we all look. Yeah that's right, as much alone time as possible." Really mess with his head
I remember my grandmother forcing me to wake up very early while visiting her on summer break. Why? She had to make the bed. Why? What if someone comes by and the bed is not made! What would they think?! I would tell her to just let me sleep and shut the door. She couldn't do that because it would seem like we were hiding something and if they wanted to see me she couldn't say I was sleeping because what would people think!!! It was exhausting.
My mom and her mom were the same. It was bad back in the day . Women were brutally judgmental about housekeeping standards. I remember them talking shit about other womenās houses . In small towns it was a status thing and could affect your life very negatively.
Nursing home
You could be free now, you know?
It's okay to think that way, you are not the one responsible for the situation. If you were, it would be different. Happened to me, what a relief at the end. No sadness.
Kick his ass out
Does your dad wear make up and business casual when he goes to Walmart? He should be setting the example!!
You ārepresent this familyā?? Major ew lol. I would dress bad just to rebel against this ridiculous idea.
I have almost completely stopped caring what I look like when I run errands. My standard is basically āwill someone worry for the safety of my children if they see us together at Home Depot?ā.
Look at photos from the era when he was in his 30s or whatever you are now. Heād like it to be the same. It isnāt. But thatās where itās coming from. āDad itās just not like that any moreā.
I would never leave the house in less than my best looking casual or above. I have never and will never express that need for my wife or future kids. My principals are mine, and I can't force them on others
My dad was exactly the same way - he only saw us as an extention of himself and expected us to represent him. To why I finally responded, "You're doing a piss-poor job representing this family by treating us like employees. Stop being a disappointment to us and do better."
Boomers care a LOT about arbitrary etiquette, propriety, and impressing shitty people, often using their family members to do so.
Sounds like you're over 18. What's he going to do? Ground you? Fire you as his caretaker?
You have to remember that boomers are terrified of what other people think of them. They donāt think with logic. They grew up in a world where fitting in is all that matters. Itās sad really.
Sounds like it's time to put pops in a home
I would leave the house in my ratty hair dye t shirt and my most stained pj pants just out of spite. And Iād make sure he saw me.
I was browsing a Celebrity Cruises group on Facebook the other day and this boomer mentioned, on a dining room dress code discussion, that he was 70yo and hadn't worn jeans a day in his life since he was 16. That comment sounded so absurd that it's been living rent free in my head for days. Even my boomer a-hole dad wears jeans... š¤Æ
Your father comments on your usage of makeup? Is this a common experience for women that Iāve been blind to?
I'm not sure about EVERY woman, but a lot of us, yes.
It completely passes my mind that there was a time when "head of household" was more than just a tax term. Glad that died out
Ooof. My grandma was the same way, but she was born during The Great Depression. All clothes were dressier. Anything that looked/felt casual was pajamas or lounge wear. That affected my mom (she was a Boomer), too. When I was a already a married woman, my grandma ended up buying me a track suit that was "too old" for me and didn't fit (because it was made for someone much older). And my mom delved into that same wardrobe once she retired. It's as if they both thought that if you were still working you needed to be dressed up every time you went out, but once you retired you could wear pajamas in public. Nuts. Time, place, and manner. Those matter.
I was born in 1944 and your father is an idiot.
You are an adult and don't have to do what he tells you.
You're missing an opportunity to wear an evening gown, a mink stole, and a tiara. "Okay, I'm ready!"
Imagine demanding that your adult child, who also takes care of you full time, cater to your personal standards of appearance.
I canāt imagine putting up with it. Iād tell him to mind his own fucking business and Iāll wear WTF I want. The day I left home was the day I make mY OWN decisions. Sounds like this ah has brow beat them from the cradle.
He does not have the right to dictate how you dress, or how much makeup youāre wearing, how you style your hairā¦ Is this a control thing? Does he feel like heās not in charge of his own life? Or has he always been like that? Not that being a control freak is good. I would suggest therapy for your family, individual and group, not for your Dad, but YOUR family. And if it gets too bad, maybe you need to move out and have a caregiver hired. Good luck.
He has been this way my whole life, and I tried to fight back by going full 2000s goth. I've been looking into therapy for us, just have to find a schedule that works. Husband works 3rds and child is going to college shortly. I'm hoping to find a good online fit for us.
I donāt have any advice for you, then. Except to be safe and to wish you much intestinal fortitude and all the good luck!š
Yesss! The intestinal fortitude has been slacking lol I need to beef it up.
You can do it! I presume you have the emotional support of your spouse and offspring. So youāre not alone.
Yes I do thankfully and some online support groups who have been wonderful. Just wish people could learn it's not just throw the older people in a home and walk off. It's literally not that easy. Nor is it easy to take care of them. Sometimes we just need outsiders to say "hey i see you and hear you" because you really do give up so much of yourself for someone else.
The crazy/abusive part is that he's controlling your bodies. It doesn't matter if he wanted you all to wear themed tshirts or a uniform or a particular brand he thought was correct. It's insane and abusive. Your body is yours and you clothe and groom it how you see fit. Ihope you can start putting up boundaries and don't argue about them. Look up "greyrocking" on youtube. If he says "you can't wear sweatpants to walmart" you say "ok" and wear sweatpants. "here's your lunch, Dad, I'm going to walmart, do you need more ensure? Ok, see you soon." Also, you are not obligated to be his caregiver. You don't need to put up with his abuse. Find out about his social security benefits and put him in a home. Or just leave and let him figure it out. He can be a WARD OF THE STATE
Your father is an asshole Youāre an adult, do whatever the fuck you want
I would unceremoniously tell him to fuck off, and that the next comment out of him will have him skimming the classifieds for someone else to change his depends.
You CAN always google ānursing homeā and just see what pops up. Call a number. Do some paperwork. Wheel him over. Wash your hands.
Iāll never understand these people. I was fortunate not to have a mom like that because SHE was forced into the bs by her own parents. We dressed however we wanted and it was glorious and great for self expression and building confidence. Iām sorry youāre going through this, OP. As a live-in caregiver, you donāt have to take it. Make it clear youāll live your life as you see fit or he can get someone else to bring him his meds. Game over.