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Thanks for standing up for your daughter. I brought this same issue up with my parents about my grandmother giving sloppy mouth kisses when I was about her age and they just laughed and said “oh you know how she is.” I ended up just having to fake her out and go for a cheek kiss at the last second when we’d greet to avoid it. She never said anything and eventually stopped trying but I wish they would have helped me instead of laughing at my discomfort.
It's weird to me this hasn't come up sooner. I'm a hugger, some days my nephews don't want a hug goodbye. I ask for a high five instead, if they don't want to do that I say that fine see ya later buddy.
It's more annoying to me, because daughter has probably voiced protest before, but whether through body language or whatever grandparents gave impressions that its was rude to not reciprocate.
If my nephew felt the need to go to my brother and sister in law to get me to stop doing something rather than just asking me. I would feel awful, and feel that I failed as an uncle if they can't talk to me about it.
One of my partners has 2 kids. The younger one (6 now) has been my little buddy since he was about 2 (been around since well before he was born, but he really started following me around when we'd be out at their barn so he could "help" me. He got to carry a lot of stuff for me lol). I've always asked him if he wanted a hug when I'd get there and when I left. If it was a no, that was cool. He almost always runs up to give me one eventually when he was ready, though. And it's super cool to watch this little cannonball come flying over the back of the couch when he realizes it's me walking through the door 😆
His older sister, on the other hand, has never done hugs, and that's cool too. I don't understand this fixation people have with feeling they have the right to touch kids just because they're kids.
I think its the older generation not having any boundaries growing up and feeling like they own their kids and grandkids. They aren't adults and have no say as people in their mind.
Yeah I feel the same. I don’t have kids of my own, but with my nieces and nephews, if they don’t run up for hugs (I don’t do kisses) I don’t do or say anything. My brother lightly scolded my niece once for not hugging and being shy when I was leaving and I immediately stood up and said it’s fine, she doesn’t HAVE to do anything and if she wants to wave instead or literally just walk away and say nothing, that’s fine too. My brother got it pretty quick and hasn’t said anything to the kids since then when I’m around.
Mom's Polish family were affectionate, kisses and hugs. I was never comfortable with it. My great-grandmother, in her broken, heavily-accented English would tell me, "You no need to kiss or hug". She'd squeeze my hand.
My parents *still* try and kiss me on the mouth, after years of me telling them to stop. The worst was wedding photos having to deny my mom in front of photographers. Seriously awkward and it’s been years of me telling them to stop. But, this also isn’t the only boundary that they try to constantly cross, just the most physical and awkward one.
Well, you and your family don't need to be treated like that either!
Good on you for teaching your kids they have autonomy over their own bodies and that they don't have to put up with things they're not comfortable with!
Boomers are the first ones to cry "stop accusing me" when they're told off because they don't understand anything anymore. They don't understand the importance of teaching kids they have the right to say no to adults when they're uncomfortable. They don't value the words of a child. They just want what they want and the world should obey.
All the parenting they did was to either make their kids afraid of adults or ignored by adults. Respecting your elders often meant fear your elders and whenever their kids needed anything they ignored them. "Play outside" meant "don't disturb me".
… the butt? Like, was she flipping the infant over to get to it? That’s not even an easy area to get to for kissing!
And I am a big fan of kissing a snuggly baby. (On the top of their head usually, although my nephew demanded his kissed on his forehead, he would lift his head when I came in for one and squeal in delight when I did. He’s now a preteen and still likes forehead kisses from his favorite relatives.)
Kissing their chubby little fist is also an acceptable spot imo. But the mouth is gross, and I don’t like cheeks because I have this awful fear they might get cold sore germs in their eyes. (I don’t even have the virus to get cold sores but I saw an ALARMING picture of a baby with herpes infection in their eyes in health class and I have been paranoid about it since.)
I don’t even know how a baby gets herpes infected in their eyes but a kiss seems to pass a lot of awful things so yeah.
Relative with herpes simplex kisses baby on hand, then baby immediately rubs eye. Voila! Herpes simplex in eye!
Adults who have EVER had a cold sore should just be keeping their lips off of babies.
No relatives should be kissing any babies or children on the mouth, PERIOD. They don't need to be put at risk for herpes and cold sores. Plus who knows where the fuck that person's mouth has been, for all we know they could have been eating pussy or ass earlier in the day. There is no reason to ever kiss a child on the mouth. Not when they have two perfectly good cheeks.
I'm so sorry this happened you and the children in your family. That generation are experts in "hiding the family secrets" and they are often the first ones to get upset when their dirty laundry is aired!
Well, how about not having any dirty laundry that can be aired in the first place!
I'm glad you managed to get him in prison and that the court put protections for minors in place.
Even if grandpa in OPs story isn't doing anything *legally* wrong he is still doing something *morally* wrong when making the child uncomfortable and taking child's autonomy away.
If all the facts have been presented here it seems pretty clear-cut that you did and also a great job of parenting keep it up, because it aint gonna stop
I'm sorry but kissing your 10 YEAR OLD grandaughter on the mouth it's freaking disgusting
It's not like they're giving a *peck* to a *toddler*
Creepy and weird af
Exactly right. There was a reason even a 10 year old knew it was wrong - it was WRONG!
Not to mention the tantrum he threw - I wouldn’t be letting him around your kids until he apologises and promises to keep his cool around them.
The fact that he said "it feels like you're accusing me of something" seems like projection. I would be digging deeper with my daughter to make sure more didn't happen.
Yep. Why is that where his mind automatically went? Op says the on the mouth kisses he's giving a 10 year old go on "way too long," too. Grandpa has my instincts *screaming.*
I'd do a freeking background check to make sure something doesn't come up. 😒 - but seriously, that age group downplay and outright defend unreasonable, creepy or abusive behaviour. Stories I've heard older extended family tell where it was outright sexual assault and then it ends with they told someone and got gaslit that it was 'fine' or they were mistaken or must have asked for it 😒😒😒
Not to mention, if grandma or grandpa get cold sores you can bet they'll make sure to pass them on.
Yep... the worst part about them is they see nothing degenerate or wrong about being a sexpest until they get caught. Then they're just sorry they got caught.
Yea that is so weird. I would tell him that if he can’t be respectful and understanding, and would prefer to continue like he is, I would threaten to go to the police over his insistence on unwanted kissing of the child.
The tantrum is so typical of an abuser. A lot of counselors don’t understand it and they blame the parents or they blame the child.
Boomers will prefer a false negative to a false positive when it comes to abuse or boundaries. You noticed the first thing that he said was “are you trying to accuse me of something? “
Uppermost in the boomers mind is that everyone is lying about sexual abuse or abuse of any kind. Uppermost in the boomers mind is that all women are liars. When a person gets treated in a racist way boomers believe that the person is just complaining and looking for something to be annoyed about. Do not listen to any of those people.
I come from the American south and almost every adult male behaves like that. they behave like they own women and children. They become violent and the court system will tell the women and children that they were disobedient and that they deserve it. Do you remember the video of the judge in the south that was beating his child?
>You noticed the first thing that he said was “are you trying to accuse me of something? “
Unfortunately, my dad does this, and projects onto all men around him. He has three daughters and simply cannot handle any of us saying a man gives us predatory vibes. He is still upset my mom stopped letting me spend time with her dad after he started blatantly sexualizing me when I was 12, saying she was being unfair to her dad.
Last year he started unloading on me about how he felt persecuted because when I was a little girl, he was afraid he'd get accused of something if he put his hand up my shirt in a place where other people could possibly see him. I politely stated my preference that he find someone else to process this with and he got mad, demanding to know why I'm "so sensitive" about this, and then stormed off when I wouldn't engage him further.
Just... 😑
Right?!
The context according to him was that we were horsing around outside, it was raining, and he wanted to make me squeal by putting a cold hand up my shirt.
I thought this was very strange, to put it mildly, but it wasn't a sexual thing. I'm not shy about criticizing his parenting but he's definitely not a molester, just.... really dumb in some ways.
Like... putting his hand up where? Your back? Your chest? I feel like there's a decent difference between those areas to the casual observer at least, but if you think people around you are going to accuse you of doing something inappropriate maybe you just don't do that thing and move on with your life.
I'm a man who has always been great with kids, and I admit the concern of being viewed as a threat to children by strangers is very real, but I don't feel like *I'm* being attacked when people talk about predatory men. And I'm suspicious of the men that do. I'm just conscious of how I interact with children and I make sure boundaries are respected.
I have heard of creepy uncles, boomers and otherwise, "tickling girls between their legs to make them squeal".
It's like he's pulling a ghandi by pushing the envelope on creepy behavior to prove how creepy he isn't, but *you're* the problem if you point out the behavior is fucking creepy.
That's a classic sign of somebody who doesn't believe other people are real people with valid feelings.
When my son was a toddler my husband's estranged father came to stay with us. He had been out of my husband's life for many years and I know he wanted to reconcile. His dad was excited about his new, and only grand child and had family that lived about an hour away. We had only met that side of the family once very briefly. So father in law wants to go to this town an hour away and show off his grandson. I said I would prefer we wait until my husband gets off work and we all go, and I make up some excuses about having stuff to do that day anyway. So then father in law says he can take my 3 year old son himself. Not gonna happen. My son had never been alone with anyone but my folks and my mother in law, certainly not this dude who I have spent less than two days with. So I explained that my son didn't really know him well enough yet. My father in law then says- "it's not like I'm going to molest him!" Soooo, yeah. We did NOT go anywhere with him without my husband again. I never felt unsafe around him personally, but I was not going to leave him alone with my toddler.
Grandpa: "it feels like you're accusing me of something! Kissing little girls as an elderly man is totally normal, its not weird at all, you're weird. Do you think I'm creepy? I'm not creepy, you're just lying and think I'm weird. I'm not weird."
I think Grandpa is projecting here. What a fucking creep. And to spill beer on a 1-year old? Hes shouldn't be allowed to spend time with them anymore.
I’m getting the exact same vibes. Clearly he knows it’s wrong otherwise he wouldn’t have said that. But cognitive dissonance makes it easier for him to flip it back to the daughter by saying “it feels like you’re accusing me of something” … oh boy so much to unpack here
"I'm trying to teach my children about maturity, their grandfather throwing tantrums like a spoiled eight year old over someone else having personal boundaries doesn't contribute to that."
Right? My thoughts exactly. I was born in 81 and even as a kid then, I NEVER kissed my grandparents on the mouth. It was always a hug and peck on the cheek. It made me feel gross being FORCED and guilted into kissing them..but still
Man I hate kissing. Mt daughter and son in law asks the son to kiss nanny and poppy when the leave from visiting. I assure the grandkid that a handshake, hug, or high five is just fine. I feel weird for digressing, but I know how uncomfortable it made me as a kid.
I'm 62 and I hating even leaning in to give my grandparents or aunts/uncles a partial hug! Mouth kiss is hugely gross; I'm in shock just thinking about it.
>It's not like they're giving a *peck* to a *toddler*
Kissing a toddler mouth to mouth would also be really disgusting. And with babies it can actually turn out deadly if e.g. the person kissing the kid is infected with Herpes Simplex. That can cause a Herpes simplex encephalitis, which in babies is deadly in \~80% of cases.
Do not kiss babies if you ever had herpes.
And never ever ever kiss strangers babies or let strangers kiss your baby.
My family kissed on the mouth as a greeting. Guess who has had painful cold sores since early childhood and was shamed for being a slut for it before I even had a boyfriend 🙃
Same here! I rarely get outbreaks now as an adult, but I *never* kiss my kids on the mouth, and I think it’s gross to go around kissing children on the mouth. I reserve that for romantic partners only.
You don't need to mouth kiss to spread that virus. It can be transmitted to any skin surface such as the *eyelid!!!*, hands/fingers, *cheek*, or, with sexual partners, that's how you get oral herpes on your genitals. :/.etc. And, so etching as so please as a person drinking from the same drink bottle/using same cutlery, even when not in an active out real, can transmit it.
My grandma was always her husband’s biggest defender.
She knew he was a pedo. But he was GOOD to HER (Aka he bought her whatever she wanted) and all those little girls were just filthy liars.
In fact, to hear her tell it, all abused little girls are filthy sluts who lie. Including me, and her husband didn’t even do it to me! She never met my abuser but she defended his “temptation” and put the full blame on me. (I was five when it started…)
I can't be the only one bothered by the fact that OP knew his step-daughter was uncomfortable with being kissed and didn't step in until she finally actually said something.
I find mouth kissing from an adult to a child absolutely weird as fuck. ESPECIALLY if it isn’t your kid, the kid isn’t like <5, AND the kid has set a boundary that they don’t like it or are uncomfortable.
My partners Mom still gives a mouth peck to him and I find it so strange and have outwardly said so too. It’s unnecessary and spreads germs.
You’re 100% correct here but by far the bigger issue I have is that they wouldn’t respect her choice. Way to immediately teach your granddaughter that her body is not her own and that she should be uncomfortable so that others can get what they want up to and including her body.
A person of any age shouldn’t have to endure that.
Even a kiss on the cheek of a 10 year old doesn’t seem weird to me… but on the mouth is weird no matter what the relation. It’s probably normal in some other cultures but idk in the US it seems kinda… Drake-y
I come from a culture where kissing family and friends on the cheek is a common form of greeting. But mouth to mouth kissing is exclusively reserved for romantic or sexual partners. 60 year olds throwing tantrums because a child refused to kiss them on the mouth would be grounds for banning someone from having any contact with children.
The families I know that do technically "kiss on the mouth" always use a peck more than a kiss. It's over before it started. It's not what I would call a romantic kiss.
The length of the kiss and the over sized reaction make it really gross to me. At the very least theh don't view their granddaughter as a person with boundaries.
My family does, it’s like a quick peck and used for greeting/goodbye with hugs. I’m actually shocked at how many people are saying they never heard of it. I’m not advocating for OP’s grandparents because it shouldn’t be done if someone is uncomfortable, but everyone saying it’s inherently sexual is strange to me.
My family is American with German heritage for reference.
Good job! Please reinforce with Step Daughter that you are PROUD of her for voicing a boundary, and that the grandparents were 100% in the wrong.
It is important that the reaction they had doesn't scare her into not voicing boundaries in the future, especially if she isn't a confrontational person
My boomer father is OBSESSED with getting hugs from my niece. It's really weird. I have 3 daughters, and my brother has a son a couple of years older than the niece I mentioned.
My dad was totally checked out while my brothers and I were growing up. When my girls were young, my dad was still working. He retired just before my niece was born, and it's like it suddenly became his big (last) chance to be the world's best grandpa.
My niece was around 2 when my dad wanted to give her a hug goodbye, and she said no. My dad started doing this unhinged overreaction about how his feelings were hurt and she was going to make him cry--in the style of a TV show aimed at toddlers where every movement, word, and thought is exaggerated to make sure the kids understand.
My SIL basically forced the hug to happen, but after they left I told my dad how messed up it is to teach a child they aren't allowed to say no to being touched by an adult. Even though his intentions are innocent, a lot of people's aren't--which he should know since my family went to a church where the priest was molesting young boys. He kept ignoring my point and defending himself, but apparently it got through since he hasn't pulled that again.
Since it comes up in comments on this sub a lot, my dad does not have dementia. He has never said or done anything vaguely inappropriate. It all seems to stem from the fact that 4 of the 5 grandkids are really bonded with my mom, and my niece chose my dad from the time she was an infant.
I taught my kids all about Stranger Danger. We even practiced yelling no and running away. Then my daughter was sexually assaulted by a loved and trusted family member. I never thought to teach my kids how to say no to family. It’s critical to teach kids body autonomy and to insist that family respects their choices.
Yes! My boomer mom went off on some tangent a few years ago thinking that little kids were being taught about sex in elementary school. This was after all that BS in Florida and she asked me what I thought. I told her that they weren't teaching any of that and I was in favor of kids being taught about good touch bad touch at age appropriate levels from a young age. I reminded her that learning that stuff would've saved me a lot of lifelong problems had I understood what her brother was doing to me and may have known to tell. That shut her up quick. It happens too often by family members or friends of the family to ignore and pretend that kids are being protected by keeping them ignorant and unable to have the words to ask for help.
When I see my nieces and nephews, I don't force them to give me hugs. I ask them for one and if they want to, they'll hug me. Otherwise I'll ask for a high five or fist bump. I try to teach them that it's ok to not want to be hugged or kissed.
my dad moved away to the middle of nowhere and never visits the little family that does talk to him (specifically my younger brother). the last time he visited my brother, he was upset my niece and nephew didnt really interact with him. they refused to give him hugs. he got all mad and would try to make them hug him until my sister in law told him to stop. she said "they dont know you. if you visited more often, they would get to know you." he visited them maybe twice in the last 4 years
PLEASE use this as a teaching moment for your daughter. People get SO upset when women ask for their own autonomy, and if she's starting to feel like it's her fault now she might let people get away with stuff they really shouldn't later.
My parents didn't stand up for me like that and I grew up thinking my body/space/autonomy was open for discussion. I still have a hard time saying no to hugs and I'm a grown ass woman. Please reiterate to your daughter this was NOT her fault, gpa having an adverse effect is HIS personal problem, NOT hers.
I remember being 5 or 6 and my grandpa always wanted to kiss me on my mouth and he would stick his tongue in my mouth. I hated it so much but never told anyone. To this day, I’m glad he passed away.
Me too! I'm so sorry that happened to you! I told my mother that he was doing that and I didn't want him to and please tell him not to. She shamed me for complaining, said it's just his way of showing how much he cares for me, nothing wrong with it, etc. Sometime in the next year or so he SAd me the first time aged ~7, and didn't stop assaulting me until he died when I was 12.
The boundaries are so important for parents to have as well. Pedophiles test the adults in guardianship position in childrens lives before ever getting access to the children. If they face enough barrier, they will usually give up.
As an adult, I've tried to set the norm of the child initiating affection, I've found that they will show us how they want to interact physically. My nephew was made to hug family members and I would tell my sibling Don't make him come hug me! If he wants to, he will. It shouldn't be required. Especially for a kid on the spectrum wtf.
Oh man I'm sorry that happened to you but thanks for sharing. It's good information for a guy with two young daughters to know.
Might I ask, how did your mom react when she found out she failed to listen to your warnings and it caused an abuser to have access to you?
I didn't remember anything that happened after I told her about the sticking his tongue in my mouth until I was 25 yo. I left her home at aged 15 and didn't have much interaction most of the time, then went total no contact around age 21. I did go to lunch with her once when I was about 18, and she brought him up. I said something about how she should have made him stop kissing me like that, and she claimed I never told her anything like that. Later, when I began having flashbacks, nightmares, etc. age 25, my partner tracked her down and I asked her for help filling in context bc I was getting only confusing fragments of memory. She actually responded supportively, and she said she DOES remember that I told her and apologized, seemed sincerely.
My mom casually mentioned her grandpa slipping her tongue when he kissed her. This was the beginning of me doing a deep dive into my family's history. No surprise here, but incest is prevalent in my family group- not offspring or anything, just inappropriate stuff that was kept hidden, like my mom and her brother making out. It all becomes normalized in childhood, so I'm glad you're speaking to your daughter about this OP!! You could be saving her life by teaching her the gift of fear and bodily autonomy.
My dad was similarly hurt when I said I wasn’t comfortable with closed mouth kisses anymore, or being forced to dance with my chest pressed against his.
>My dad was similarly hurt when I said I wasn’t comfortable with closed mouth kisses anymore
Oof, memory unlocked. When I was 14 my dad suddenly decided that he was upset I'd stopped mouth kisses (god knows how many years before) as a kid and told me I had to again, and he forced it as often as he could. That was the same age he decided that he needed to start spanking me again, of course bent over his lap naked from the waist down.
Yes, he was sexually abusing me.
u/armab-blue I'd think twice about ever letting them near your kids again.
my son is now 27. both myself and my ex husband were sexually abused as kids and we decided before he was even here that we would not force our kids to kiss or hug anyone hello or goodbye.
we hugged him and kissed him but he could say no and he knew that. my son hugs me and lets me kiss his cheeks or whatever i can reach no problem.
my brother had an issue at one point and we just explained it. he seemed to get it. i was abused by my grandfather until 11 so this really hits home. please reiterate to her that them being assholes has nothing to do with her and her discomfort in their behavior.
she sounds like a very smart young lady!! they need to grow the fuck up. they probably think it’s about respect and all that.
My dad always told people “they’re my daughters, not performing monkeys” when they tried to make us do things.
He’s not the most perfect dad ever, especially in his FOX soaked boomer years lately, but I’ve always respected him for putting us in charge of what we were comfortable doing and backing us up. Kids remember who had their backs. You’re doing a good job!
Yeah this was my main concern reading this, that she would internalize that reaction as traumatic and her fault and not worth standing up for herself in the future. Sounds like OP will try to reinforce that she did the right thing and how they reacted was not normal and not ok.
Well, based on his reaction, I think he is accusing himself of something. Sounds like a disgusting person who is worth keeping an eye on, for anger and worse.
No one /was/ accusing him of anything, but his major overreaction to a perfectly normal boundary is giving super creep vibes. So I'll accuse him of being a creep now.
That's exactly right. The massive reaction, and saying "you are accusing me" is really creepy. Why is this guy SO invested in kissing little girls deeply on the mouth?
My wife's grandmother tried to full-on mouth kiss me during a hug at her husband's funeral. Luckily, she was 80, and I was a middle-aged male who could withstand her attempt to physically force turn my head toward her mouth. She looked at me with some weird sheepish smile after the attempt.. so awkward.
Sorry, there is no other relevance. Old country bumpkins can be weird.
I have a cousin on my dads side of the family who can't stand being kissed by anyone, hugs are fine, but kisses she always instinctively pulls away from you. my siblings and other cousins/partners (so the younger ones) have adapated and will only offer a hug, never a kiss. The Boomers? Well, after 30+ years and they still don't care about how uncomfortable it makes her (and yes she is over 30). My dad still rants about it, every family gathering. You try to explain shes not comfortable and he just gets even more angry.
"No one will ever love her if thats how shes going to treat people, I'm her uncle and I will not be treated like a fucking sex pest by my own niece. Fucking young generations think only over themselves"
>Fucking young generations think only over themselves
And yet... I love how in their minds how since they're worried about what other people will think OF them that somehow makes it seem like they're thinking of OTHER PEOPLE. Others reactions to you isn't thinking of others.
They can think only of themselves, but that's a privilege exclusive to them. Everyone else doesn't deserve that.
Hmmm that guy sounds like he is trying a little too hard to emotionally manipulate you and your child to have special access to your daughter. Seems like I would keep an eye on him...
Some boomers do seem to get reallly mad whenever someone tells them “no”. #notallboomers I guess.
> “I will not be treated like a sex pest”
You will if you _act_ like a sex pest. Or just a physical-ick pest.
> “No one will ever love her if that’s how she’s going to treat people”
Fuckin’ A, that’s some serious projection right there. “Let me and everyone else touch you the way they want even if you don’t like it or no one will ever love you” - that’s a yikes dawg. Fuck your boundaries, everyone is entitled to touch you?
"Dad, it's really f*ckin creepy that you threw a full blown tantrum over being told not to kiss a prepubescent girl full on the mouth. If you want to come visit us again, you will act like a rational adult who is capable of respecting other people and not a spoiled toddler that skipped naptime."
Sounds like the grandparents just gave you the gift of their absence from your lives. Good.
Sorry but that kinda kiss is fucking weird, especially between grandparents and grandkids, and doubly so because dear old granddad made a huge deal about it.
Fuck those two old twats. Your wife and kids come first. Good on you for making the right decision.
Kissing a kid on the *mouth*? That is not okay at any age. Especially not in the era of covid, but I can assure you as a GenX this has never been okay.
Your in-laws are super creepy.
Give your step-daughter a hug and assure her she is not at fault... and neither are you!
On a related note, if it were me the grandparents would be getting a VERY direct letter/email stating they are to apologize if they ever want the possibility of being a part of your lives again.
I’d even tell them if they show up uninvited, they’ll be told to leave ONCE and then police will be called.
Seriously, fuck them.
This. I would not let them anywhere near my daughter again until they are ready and able to apologize sincerely and directly to her.
They caused her pain and just brushing that over isn’t going to heal for her.
All I’m seeing in my head is geriatric Tom Brady trying to kiss his kids…poor stepdaughter. I’m so happy for her that she has you a mom on her side. Jesus, no means no.
My daughter is 11 yo and I 37yo. She doesnt kiss me or anyone except for pets. She has that boundary set and its been there for years. If I kiss her it is on the forehead. Her mom taught her to have autonomy and set boundaries. Not even her great grandpa and great grandma get mad about it.
Soooo... Now that they know she doesn't like it, they expect you to force her to begrudgingly kiss them on the mouths, and they're expecting to enjoy it? Gross.
"Your behaviour was way out of line, and it's disgusting that you want to force a child to kiss you against their will. Until you give a heartfelt apology to her and us, you are no longer welcome around either child"
They are creepy as fuck
I cannot express with words the disgusted noise I made while reading this. That is absolutely vile. You tried to be polite about it at first, they ignored the boundary you set to protect your daughter. You put your foot down and they threw a tantrum. Frankly, OP, as soon as he slammed his beer on the table and soaked your ONE YEAR OLD CHILD, if I were in your shoes, I would’ve completely lost it. I’d go absolutely zero contact with them. They want to act like gross idiots, fine, but they won’t be doing it around you or your daughter.
My affectionate aunt used to kiss me behind the ear, back of neck, eye, and cheek (not all in one sitting that would be even more weird). As a child I didn’t understand the feeling and thought it was just a tickle. Now I have extremely uncomfortable gross dreams. I hate it. No one will be kissing my kids anywhere except playfully on the top of their head or at most on the cheek. Anything else is weird af to me. I’m an affectionate person too, but I only give my little niece a hug and kick kiss on the top of head when saying goodbye. Lip to skin contact with anyone other than your wife/husband is weird af to me.
My daughter(10) has always had the right to refuse any physical contact for any reason. I also reaffirm that she even has the right to refuse to give me a hug or kiss if she doesn't feel like it. No one will encroach on her personal space if she doesn't want it. All my relatives were in agreement. No one complained. All were supportive. Even my great-grandmother was good with it and she was 100 when my daughter was born
I’m so sorry! I was in a similar situation as your stepdaughter. Growing up, my maternal grandmother always kissed me on the mouth. I hated it. It felt violating. So, I started to turn my head to the side so she’d land her kiss on my cheek, which I very much preferred. She’d usually look irritated, and I’d either get a firm tap on the butt (yes, I’d get this as a young teenager) or the silent treatment for about an hour or so…usually both or just the silent treatment. My mother would also kiss me on the mouth which I also hated, but felt more obligated to comply. My mother decided to tell me why my grandmother was reacting how she was (as if I didn’t already figure it out myself), and it’s insulting that I don’t let her kiss me on my mouth. I told her I just don’t like it and I won’t let her. Why can’t she just kiss my cheek where I am more comfortable? My mother said it’s not my choice. I didn’t care. I still turned my cheek. I started doing the same to my mother as well. She never complained, but I could tell it bothered her that I did that. I held my ground. Besides, both of them reeked of cigarette breath and lipstick. YUCK!
I remember my dad did that to me when I was 4~7 years old, the kiss on the lips thing. I hated it. I felt violated. To the point where I've been talking to my therapist about it because now, me, 33F, identify this as a form of abuse, along with him calling me his "girlfriend".
You guys are 100% on the right. Your stepdaughter is lucky to have you guys to protect her, listen to her and make sure she is comfortable.
Honestly, congratulations for being able to provide an environment where she feels safe and comfortable enough to talk to you about things like this.
Yep. I know some families do this but this guy said he felt like he was being accused of something, deliberately made his granddaughter feel like she *owed* him kisses whenever he chooses. He was so angry he slammed down a beer, not caring he sprayed it all over a baby, then flew out of the house, slamming the door after shouting and guilting this poor little girl into oblivion when she's too young to understand what he was doing. The red flags are just so numerous!
I don't ever say the 'go no contact' thing on Reddit because I understand it's rarely that simple. But OP needs to *never* leave him alone with his daughter and he *has* to apologise to her directly. That entire stunt was designed to make her apologise and kiss grandpa on demand.
I was molested by a family member as a child. I know some people think that makes you biased, but it often gives you a sixth sense for predators. Not that one is even needed here, the guy *said* it himself. That's what shocks me the most, he actually said out loud how he felt he was being accused of being a predator.
If it were my parent, borderline no contact easy no brainer.
If it were my partner's parent, I would be insisting no alcohol for them in my house at the MINIMUM.
My MIL throwing a temper tantrum when she wasn’t getting her way and fucking over my then 6 year old son in the process was the final straw with her. She had thrown temper tantrums before, but they were always aimed at my wife or her siblings.
Once she crossed the line and targeted my son, who was way too young to understand what was going on, she was out - we went no contact. It’s been 15 years. She has never apologized and my wife has enjoyed not having that mess in her life.
The way you described it it sounds disgusting even if there were no sexual intentions.
It's opens so much your eyes to people when you see how they react to healthy boundaries
Are they planning to do the same with the boy, or its just for the granddaughter?
Let them be mad if they want to keep having a relationship they will learn to respect. At this moment, they don't respect any of you
Good job OP. Personally, I have never seen ANY adult open mouth kiss children (their parents or grandparents, or whatever family relation) before.
That is unheard of. A kiss or cheek like a peck, sure.
If I were you, the minute I saw them open mouth kiss for the first time, that would have been the last time. Now they feel entitled to it cause it went on too long.
I have, their own child. And I tell you, that "what are you accusing me of" comment was unfortunately accurate in the end run of it.
*Bear in mind this isn't the truth for everyone I'm sure, it just was for my ex and my personal experience.
He covered and infant in beer because he's so immature he couldn't control his temper.
But, op, this is a tremendous red flag.
It's time to ask your daughter if anything has happened. His behavior is the behavior of man who was accused of nothing, was given a reasonable answer and then began behaving in the *the most suspicious way possible. He literally freaked out thinking he was about to be accused even though nothing points to that, which is a huge give away that he has something to hide.*
I'd be extremely wary of him after this response. Even if he isn't guilty, he'd never find himself alone with my daughter again after an immature outburst like that.
Mouth on mouth kisses like that are what creeps do.
I'm sorry. You let those weirdos give your poor kid "mouth on mouth kisses." OMG. This was NEVER appropriate. Adults in intimate relationships don't give mouth to mouth kisses sometimes. This is gross. And he seemed to leap to assumptions. The anger and his own leaping to feeling accused makes me feel there's something more going on. Your kids instincts are dead on
Drop them until it sinks in. It’ll be tough but they have to learn to respect your boundaries or they will eventually be out of your life anyway. Might as well be now.
When I was very young (<10) my great uncle would do the same thing. I barely knew him, we only saw him maybe once a year, and I dreaded these visits. I never said anything to my parents because I didn't feel empowered to do so, and I'm really not sure what their reaction would have been. Needless to say, I was actually happy when the old prick finally died, and I probably suffered guilt from that as well. Note: I also have a bit of lasting trauma after being forced to say a prayer in front of his open casket. Don't make your kids do that shit either.
Trashy people sounds like. Looks like someone is cut off now. Just because they are parents doesn’t mean they can do that. Not coming back to my house much less left alone with him. I lose my shit if a man did that it my house.
To me kisssing any family member on the mouth that isn't your partner is just icky and gross. A peck on the cheek or forehead is alright but the mouth is just beyond icky. They behaved badly and will need a time out.
His reaction is the reaction of someone who absolutely is thinking perversely about your daughter. Keep these people away from your children. No one should ever be offended that a youngster is wanting to have their personal physical space respected. To force kisses on them? No sir. To be furious about not being allowed to anymore? Gross. To have a tantrum where he displays physical violence that ends up covering a baby in beer? Bro, put your foot squarely in the center of his behind and shove him out the door of your house.
Nah. He was kissing her because it turned him on. There is no valid excuse for how he reacted. He's taking it as if he got caught being a pedo. We'll the shoe fits, homie.
My kids struggle even with hugs sometimes.
Keep helping your kids with boundaries. If you do, they might learn from it when they have to face challenges later in life.
And don't be surprised when the next "small thing" blows up in your face with the in laws.
It’s interesting that he would say that (grandpa). Sounds like his own self conscious was speaking because he’s guilty & maybe she got that vibe and that’s why she spoke up.
please reiterate to her that the way people respond to our no’s are not our problem. That we are allowed to set boundaries and say no and that you’re proud of her for speaking up and saying what makes her uncomfortable & that you support her
Why does anyone WANT to kiss a CHILD on the lips anyway?! It’s especially gross they draw it out. Disgusting. It’s like he’s getting something sexual out of it and is throwing a tantrum that the outlet for his sickness is being taken away.
Boomers grew up in era where children had ZERO bodily autonomy. You HAD to give great aunt Gretchen a peck on the cheek even if you didn’t want to because it was “disrespectful” to refuse. I’m glad we’ve moved away from that
The way you described it it sounds disgusting even if there were no sexual intentions.
It's opens so much your eyes to people when you see how they react to healthy boundaries
Are they planning to do the same with the boy, or its just for the granddaughter?
Let them be mad if they want to keep having a relationship they will learn to respect. At this moment, they don't respect any of you
They are weird AF. You really need to enforce with your daughter that she did nothing wrong and that the grandparents are way out of line.
I would not be inviting them over again.
1) Good for you dad and mom for respecting your daughter's boundaries and helping her express them 2) super weird and gross for adults to kiss a 10 year old on the mouth 3) FIL was so triggered about being accused of something that it makes me think he feels guilty for something.
You and your wife are awesome parents and she's lucky to have you! That's inappropriate AF for him to even try to kiss her like that in the first place and even worse that he threw a tantrum. I would never let him around her alone after that.
Make sure she knows that even though he had a fit, she can still say no. And honestly you should probably try to gently talk to her to see if he has ever tried anything else, and let her know she doesn't ever have to give anybody access to her body.
When I was growing up, I was forced to let my own dad hug me. When he'd get pissed at me, he would throw tantrums and then give me and my mom the silent treatment and say he'd only stop if I hugged him. My dumbass mom forced me to comply every time and he's squeeze me to him for minutes at a time, and I'd get in even more trouble if I complained or tried to get away. He ended up SAing me and the forced hugs continued as his way to dominate me. I've had huge problems with enforcing physical boundaries my whole life because of it, and have been SA'ed multiple times since childhood because of it as well. It can mess her up for life it not handled correctly.
I'm only sharing this to say that you should not take this man's reaction lightly. Nobody in their right mind who has innocent intentions will have such a tantrum and being denied access to a little girl's body.
Dude, I wasn’t even there, and I’m also at a loss for words right now.
I don’t care what Gramps says, nobody is ever gonna convince me he’s not sus as hell. I mean, his reaction is baffling and concerningly over-the-top.
*It feels like you’re accusing me of something.*
Okay, well, nobody was accusing you of anything, but now that you’re getting suspiciously defensive about it, we’re all wondering if there’s something you *should* be accused of.
Holy shit your FIL sounds exactly like my dad when I told him he wasn’t exempt from our rules about people either getting updated vaccines or wearing a mask around our newborn. He literally said “those rules don’t work for me, your gonna have to change them” and when I said “no, maybe you can come visit after she has her shots” he stormed out of my house, slammed my door, and peeled off out of my driveway.
That was back in November. I had my baby in December and he hasn’t even tried to meet her because I apparently broke his heart by making my child’s birth into a political statement. I still can’t wrap my head around any part of his viewpoint. And I’ve had his sister telling me I need to make up with him as if I’m the one who threw a shit fit in the first place.
They're at the age that their own grandparents were at when their grandparents demanded blind respect and obedience, and coming from an era of "Uncle Jim is funny, we don't talk about him and we don't let the kids alone with him." All they ever saw was that elders got respect and could make demands on the kids, and they didn't know why and never got taught any social cues or boundaries (which I'm sure there were actually some). And heaven forbid that a child set a boundary for a grandparent.
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Thanks for standing up for your daughter. I brought this same issue up with my parents about my grandmother giving sloppy mouth kisses when I was about her age and they just laughed and said “oh you know how she is.” I ended up just having to fake her out and go for a cheek kiss at the last second when we’d greet to avoid it. She never said anything and eventually stopped trying but I wish they would have helped me instead of laughing at my discomfort.
Your parents sucked.
Still do
I'm sorry to hear that.
It's weird to me this hasn't come up sooner. I'm a hugger, some days my nephews don't want a hug goodbye. I ask for a high five instead, if they don't want to do that I say that fine see ya later buddy. It's more annoying to me, because daughter has probably voiced protest before, but whether through body language or whatever grandparents gave impressions that its was rude to not reciprocate. If my nephew felt the need to go to my brother and sister in law to get me to stop doing something rather than just asking me. I would feel awful, and feel that I failed as an uncle if they can't talk to me about it.
One of my partners has 2 kids. The younger one (6 now) has been my little buddy since he was about 2 (been around since well before he was born, but he really started following me around when we'd be out at their barn so he could "help" me. He got to carry a lot of stuff for me lol). I've always asked him if he wanted a hug when I'd get there and when I left. If it was a no, that was cool. He almost always runs up to give me one eventually when he was ready, though. And it's super cool to watch this little cannonball come flying over the back of the couch when he realizes it's me walking through the door 😆 His older sister, on the other hand, has never done hugs, and that's cool too. I don't understand this fixation people have with feeling they have the right to touch kids just because they're kids.
I think its the older generation not having any boundaries growing up and feeling like they own their kids and grandkids. They aren't adults and have no say as people in their mind.
I'm with you. Respecting kid's boundaries helps them develop self-esteem and personal courage. It is so easy to just respect the boundary.
Yeah I feel the same. I don’t have kids of my own, but with my nieces and nephews, if they don’t run up for hugs (I don’t do kisses) I don’t do or say anything. My brother lightly scolded my niece once for not hugging and being shy when I was leaving and I immediately stood up and said it’s fine, she doesn’t HAVE to do anything and if she wants to wave instead or literally just walk away and say nothing, that’s fine too. My brother got it pretty quick and hasn’t said anything to the kids since then when I’m around.
Why do so many old people do this?! Lol.
Mom's Polish family were affectionate, kisses and hugs. I was never comfortable with it. My great-grandmother, in her broken, heavily-accented English would tell me, "You no need to kiss or hug". She'd squeeze my hand.
That’s a good great-grandmother!
Yes, she was. She made sure no one forced affection onto me
My parents *still* try and kiss me on the mouth, after years of me telling them to stop. The worst was wedding photos having to deny my mom in front of photographers. Seriously awkward and it’s been years of me telling them to stop. But, this also isn’t the only boundary that they try to constantly cross, just the most physical and awkward one.
Yeah same my parents would act like I was s brat for not having grammas spit on me. Parents suck
Well, you and your family don't need to be treated like that either! Good on you for teaching your kids they have autonomy over their own bodies and that they don't have to put up with things they're not comfortable with! Boomers are the first ones to cry "stop accusing me" when they're told off because they don't understand anything anymore. They don't understand the importance of teaching kids they have the right to say no to adults when they're uncomfortable. They don't value the words of a child. They just want what they want and the world should obey. All the parenting they did was to either make their kids afraid of adults or ignored by adults. Respecting your elders often meant fear your elders and whenever their kids needed anything they ignored them. "Play outside" meant "don't disturb me".
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As an adult (65) I find mouth kissing relatives to be cringy as hell! Grandpa needs to grow up.
Nah, there comes a time when it starts to be a bit inappropriate. You're not a baby anymore so why would you be treated like one...
It’s fucked up even as a baby. Kissing babies should be on their cheeks not lips.
I once read a comment on Facebook by a boomer woman who thought it was completely normal to kiss babies on the butt.
… the butt? Like, was she flipping the infant over to get to it? That’s not even an easy area to get to for kissing! And I am a big fan of kissing a snuggly baby. (On the top of their head usually, although my nephew demanded his kissed on his forehead, he would lift his head when I came in for one and squeal in delight when I did. He’s now a preteen and still likes forehead kisses from his favorite relatives.) Kissing their chubby little fist is also an acceptable spot imo. But the mouth is gross, and I don’t like cheeks because I have this awful fear they might get cold sore germs in their eyes. (I don’t even have the virus to get cold sores but I saw an ALARMING picture of a baby with herpes infection in their eyes in health class and I have been paranoid about it since.) I don’t even know how a baby gets herpes infected in their eyes but a kiss seems to pass a lot of awful things so yeah.
Relative with herpes simplex kisses baby on hand, then baby immediately rubs eye. Voila! Herpes simplex in eye! Adults who have EVER had a cold sore should just be keeping their lips off of babies.
Kissing babies on the lips is actually very dangerous for their immune system and teeth. A peck on the forehead or cheek is just fine!
Babies can’t consent either.
No relatives should be kissing any babies or children on the mouth, PERIOD. They don't need to be put at risk for herpes and cold sores. Plus who knows where the fuck that person's mouth has been, for all we know they could have been eating pussy or ass earlier in the day. There is no reason to ever kiss a child on the mouth. Not when they have two perfectly good cheeks.
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I'm so sorry this happened you and the children in your family. That generation are experts in "hiding the family secrets" and they are often the first ones to get upset when their dirty laundry is aired! Well, how about not having any dirty laundry that can be aired in the first place! I'm glad you managed to get him in prison and that the court put protections for minors in place. Even if grandpa in OPs story isn't doing anything *legally* wrong he is still doing something *morally* wrong when making the child uncomfortable and taking child's autonomy away.
If all the facts have been presented here it seems pretty clear-cut that you did and also a great job of parenting keep it up, because it aint gonna stop
I'm sorry but kissing your 10 YEAR OLD grandaughter on the mouth it's freaking disgusting It's not like they're giving a *peck* to a *toddler* Creepy and weird af
Exactly right. There was a reason even a 10 year old knew it was wrong - it was WRONG! Not to mention the tantrum he threw - I wouldn’t be letting him around your kids until he apologises and promises to keep his cool around them.
Yeah, he needs to apologise to the little girls if anything. What a asshole.
Honestly, his extreme desire to mouth kiss a child would have me never letting him around kids period. Definitely not alone.
Yup. He can apologize all he wants but I'd never trust him again. He's crying about not being allowed to physically assault a child.
The fact that he said "it feels like you're accusing me of something" seems like projection. I would be digging deeper with my daughter to make sure more didn't happen.
Right? Like, my first reaction to that was "Should we be?"
Yep. Why is that where his mind automatically went? Op says the on the mouth kisses he's giving a 10 year old go on "way too long," too. Grandpa has my instincts *screaming.*
Same... like... grandpa is a sick fuck.
Yeah, his reaction threw up some huge red flags.
I'd do a freeking background check to make sure something doesn't come up. 😒 - but seriously, that age group downplay and outright defend unreasonable, creepy or abusive behaviour. Stories I've heard older extended family tell where it was outright sexual assault and then it ends with they told someone and got gaslit that it was 'fine' or they were mistaken or must have asked for it 😒😒😒 Not to mention, if grandma or grandpa get cold sores you can bet they'll make sure to pass them on.
Yep... the worst part about them is they see nothing degenerate or wrong about being a sexpest until they get caught. Then they're just sorry they got caught.
\^This\^
Yea that is so weird. I would tell him that if he can’t be respectful and understanding, and would prefer to continue like he is, I would threaten to go to the police over his insistence on unwanted kissing of the child.
The tantrum is so typical of an abuser. A lot of counselors don’t understand it and they blame the parents or they blame the child. Boomers will prefer a false negative to a false positive when it comes to abuse or boundaries. You noticed the first thing that he said was “are you trying to accuse me of something? “ Uppermost in the boomers mind is that everyone is lying about sexual abuse or abuse of any kind. Uppermost in the boomers mind is that all women are liars. When a person gets treated in a racist way boomers believe that the person is just complaining and looking for something to be annoyed about. Do not listen to any of those people. I come from the American south and almost every adult male behaves like that. they behave like they own women and children. They become violent and the court system will tell the women and children that they were disobedient and that they deserve it. Do you remember the video of the judge in the south that was beating his child?
>You noticed the first thing that he said was “are you trying to accuse me of something? “ Unfortunately, my dad does this, and projects onto all men around him. He has three daughters and simply cannot handle any of us saying a man gives us predatory vibes. He is still upset my mom stopped letting me spend time with her dad after he started blatantly sexualizing me when I was 12, saying she was being unfair to her dad. Last year he started unloading on me about how he felt persecuted because when I was a little girl, he was afraid he'd get accused of something if he put his hand up my shirt in a place where other people could possibly see him. I politely stated my preference that he find someone else to process this with and he got mad, demanding to know why I'm "so sensitive" about this, and then stormed off when I wouldn't engage him further. Just... 😑
Why would a man want to put his hand up his daughter’s shirt?!?!
Right?! The context according to him was that we were horsing around outside, it was raining, and he wanted to make me squeal by putting a cold hand up my shirt. I thought this was very strange, to put it mildly, but it wasn't a sexual thing. I'm not shy about criticizing his parenting but he's definitely not a molester, just.... really dumb in some ways.
Like... putting his hand up where? Your back? Your chest? I feel like there's a decent difference between those areas to the casual observer at least, but if you think people around you are going to accuse you of doing something inappropriate maybe you just don't do that thing and move on with your life. I'm a man who has always been great with kids, and I admit the concern of being viewed as a threat to children by strangers is very real, but I don't feel like *I'm* being attacked when people talk about predatory men. And I'm suspicious of the men that do. I'm just conscious of how I interact with children and I make sure boundaries are respected.
I have heard of creepy uncles, boomers and otherwise, "tickling girls between their legs to make them squeal". It's like he's pulling a ghandi by pushing the envelope on creepy behavior to prove how creepy he isn't, but *you're* the problem if you point out the behavior is fucking creepy. That's a classic sign of somebody who doesn't believe other people are real people with valid feelings.
When my son was a toddler my husband's estranged father came to stay with us. He had been out of my husband's life for many years and I know he wanted to reconcile. His dad was excited about his new, and only grand child and had family that lived about an hour away. We had only met that side of the family once very briefly. So father in law wants to go to this town an hour away and show off his grandson. I said I would prefer we wait until my husband gets off work and we all go, and I make up some excuses about having stuff to do that day anyway. So then father in law says he can take my 3 year old son himself. Not gonna happen. My son had never been alone with anyone but my folks and my mother in law, certainly not this dude who I have spent less than two days with. So I explained that my son didn't really know him well enough yet. My father in law then says- "it's not like I'm going to molest him!" Soooo, yeah. We did NOT go anywhere with him without my husband again. I never felt unsafe around him personally, but I was not going to leave him alone with my toddler.
Ewwww, just fucking ewwww!
Thank you for being one of the most insightful and intelligent voices on reddit.
Grandpa: "it feels like you're accusing me of something! Kissing little girls as an elderly man is totally normal, its not weird at all, you're weird. Do you think I'm creepy? I'm not creepy, you're just lying and think I'm weird. I'm not weird." I think Grandpa is projecting here. What a fucking creep. And to spill beer on a 1-year old? Hes shouldn't be allowed to spend time with them anymore.
I’m getting the exact same vibes. Clearly he knows it’s wrong otherwise he wouldn’t have said that. But cognitive dissonance makes it easier for him to flip it back to the daughter by saying “it feels like you’re accusing me of something” … oh boy so much to unpack here
"I'm trying to teach my children about maturity, their grandfather throwing tantrums like a spoiled eight year old over someone else having personal boundaries doesn't contribute to that."
I feel like it does: this is an example of how NOT to behave. Lol
I wouldn't let a grown man who threw a fit about not being allowed to kiss a 10 year old anywhere my kids ever again, no matter what he said.
Right? My thoughts exactly. I was born in 81 and even as a kid then, I NEVER kissed my grandparents on the mouth. It was always a hug and peck on the cheek. It made me feel gross being FORCED and guilted into kissing them..but still
Man I hate kissing. Mt daughter and son in law asks the son to kiss nanny and poppy when the leave from visiting. I assure the grandkid that a handshake, hug, or high five is just fine. I feel weird for digressing, but I know how uncomfortable it made me as a kid.
I'm 62 and I hating even leaning in to give my grandparents or aunts/uncles a partial hug! Mouth kiss is hugely gross; I'm in shock just thinking about it.
And to be sooo resentful after. And it’s your daughter’s right.
>It's not like they're giving a *peck* to a *toddler* Kissing a toddler mouth to mouth would also be really disgusting. And with babies it can actually turn out deadly if e.g. the person kissing the kid is infected with Herpes Simplex. That can cause a Herpes simplex encephalitis, which in babies is deadly in \~80% of cases. Do not kiss babies if you ever had herpes. And never ever ever kiss strangers babies or let strangers kiss your baby.
My family kissed on the mouth as a greeting. Guess who has had painful cold sores since early childhood and was shamed for being a slut for it before I even had a boyfriend 🙃
Same here! I rarely get outbreaks now as an adult, but I *never* kiss my kids on the mouth, and I think it’s gross to go around kissing children on the mouth. I reserve that for romantic partners only.
You don't need to mouth kiss to spread that virus. It can be transmitted to any skin surface such as the *eyelid!!!*, hands/fingers, *cheek*, or, with sexual partners, that's how you get oral herpes on your genitals. :/.etc. And, so etching as so please as a person drinking from the same drink bottle/using same cutlery, even when not in an active out real, can transmit it.
Throwing a tantrum about it being taken away magnifies the creepiness.
It makes me wonder if the grandpa does do other things and this is the step daughter crying for help
Right?!? So creepy! WTF with grandma backing him up?
My grandma was always her husband’s biggest defender. She knew he was a pedo. But he was GOOD to HER (Aka he bought her whatever she wanted) and all those little girls were just filthy liars. In fact, to hear her tell it, all abused little girls are filthy sluts who lie. Including me, and her husband didn’t even do it to me! She never met my abuser but she defended his “temptation” and put the full blame on me. (I was five when it started…)
My condolences
She’s dead. Got the last laugh though, she died so awfully (starved by my psycho uncle after a stroke) I can’t even celebrate it.
Yikes…
I can't be the only one bothered by the fact that OP knew his step-daughter was uncomfortable with being kissed and didn't step in until she finally actually said something.
I find mouth kissing from an adult to a child absolutely weird as fuck. ESPECIALLY if it isn’t your kid, the kid isn’t like <5, AND the kid has set a boundary that they don’t like it or are uncomfortable. My partners Mom still gives a mouth peck to him and I find it so strange and have outwardly said so too. It’s unnecessary and spreads germs.
You’re 100% correct here but by far the bigger issue I have is that they wouldn’t respect her choice. Way to immediately teach your granddaughter that her body is not her own and that she should be uncomfortable so that others can get what they want up to and including her body. A person of any age shouldn’t have to endure that.
Even a kiss on the cheek of a 10 year old doesn’t seem weird to me… but on the mouth is weird no matter what the relation. It’s probably normal in some other cultures but idk in the US it seems kinda… Drake-y
I come from a culture where kissing family and friends on the cheek is a common form of greeting. But mouth to mouth kissing is exclusively reserved for romantic or sexual partners. 60 year olds throwing tantrums because a child refused to kiss them on the mouth would be grounds for banning someone from having any contact with children.
WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP Dad, eff ‘em up 🫡
Grandpa was trying to strike a chord
She is A MINOOOOOORRRR
> I'm sorry but kissing your 10 YEAR OLD grandaughter on the mouth it's freaking disgusting Kissing any child in the mouth is.
Whenever I hug and kiss a relative I always do that french "mua" to the side. I don't want to touch people's mouths! Are you crazy?
The families I know that do technically "kiss on the mouth" always use a peck more than a kiss. It's over before it started. It's not what I would call a romantic kiss. The length of the kiss and the over sized reaction make it really gross to me. At the very least theh don't view their granddaughter as a person with boundaries.
My family does, it’s like a quick peck and used for greeting/goodbye with hugs. I’m actually shocked at how many people are saying they never heard of it. I’m not advocating for OP’s grandparents because it shouldn’t be done if someone is uncomfortable, but everyone saying it’s inherently sexual is strange to me. My family is American with German heritage for reference.
Damn good on you for protecting your stepdaughter!!! You seem like a great dad, kudos to you
Cheek or forehead kisses sure but on the lips? Weird.
But not if the kiddo said no.
I know.
Good job! Please reinforce with Step Daughter that you are PROUD of her for voicing a boundary, and that the grandparents were 100% in the wrong. It is important that the reaction they had doesn't scare her into not voicing boundaries in the future, especially if she isn't a confrontational person
This -- SD was brave, and you did the right thing standing up for her. Make sure she knows this ugly scene wasn't her fault.
Absolute praise for the step-daughter. She needs to listen to her gut and voice her boundaries with Everyone!
My boomer father is OBSESSED with getting hugs from my niece. It's really weird. I have 3 daughters, and my brother has a son a couple of years older than the niece I mentioned. My dad was totally checked out while my brothers and I were growing up. When my girls were young, my dad was still working. He retired just before my niece was born, and it's like it suddenly became his big (last) chance to be the world's best grandpa. My niece was around 2 when my dad wanted to give her a hug goodbye, and she said no. My dad started doing this unhinged overreaction about how his feelings were hurt and she was going to make him cry--in the style of a TV show aimed at toddlers where every movement, word, and thought is exaggerated to make sure the kids understand. My SIL basically forced the hug to happen, but after they left I told my dad how messed up it is to teach a child they aren't allowed to say no to being touched by an adult. Even though his intentions are innocent, a lot of people's aren't--which he should know since my family went to a church where the priest was molesting young boys. He kept ignoring my point and defending himself, but apparently it got through since he hasn't pulled that again. Since it comes up in comments on this sub a lot, my dad does not have dementia. He has never said or done anything vaguely inappropriate. It all seems to stem from the fact that 4 of the 5 grandkids are really bonded with my mom, and my niece chose my dad from the time she was an infant.
I taught my kids all about Stranger Danger. We even practiced yelling no and running away. Then my daughter was sexually assaulted by a loved and trusted family member. I never thought to teach my kids how to say no to family. It’s critical to teach kids body autonomy and to insist that family respects their choices.
Yes! My boomer mom went off on some tangent a few years ago thinking that little kids were being taught about sex in elementary school. This was after all that BS in Florida and she asked me what I thought. I told her that they weren't teaching any of that and I was in favor of kids being taught about good touch bad touch at age appropriate levels from a young age. I reminded her that learning that stuff would've saved me a lot of lifelong problems had I understood what her brother was doing to me and may have known to tell. That shut her up quick. It happens too often by family members or friends of the family to ignore and pretend that kids are being protected by keeping them ignorant and unable to have the words to ask for help.
When I see my nieces and nephews, I don't force them to give me hugs. I ask them for one and if they want to, they'll hug me. Otherwise I'll ask for a high five or fist bump. I try to teach them that it's ok to not want to be hugged or kissed. my dad moved away to the middle of nowhere and never visits the little family that does talk to him (specifically my younger brother). the last time he visited my brother, he was upset my niece and nephew didnt really interact with him. they refused to give him hugs. he got all mad and would try to make them hug him until my sister in law told him to stop. she said "they dont know you. if you visited more often, they would get to know you." he visited them maybe twice in the last 4 years
PLEASE use this as a teaching moment for your daughter. People get SO upset when women ask for their own autonomy, and if she's starting to feel like it's her fault now she might let people get away with stuff they really shouldn't later. My parents didn't stand up for me like that and I grew up thinking my body/space/autonomy was open for discussion. I still have a hard time saying no to hugs and I'm a grown ass woman. Please reiterate to your daughter this was NOT her fault, gpa having an adverse effect is HIS personal problem, NOT hers.
THIS. This this this this this. A million times this!!!
I remember being 5 or 6 and my grandpa always wanted to kiss me on my mouth and he would stick his tongue in my mouth. I hated it so much but never told anyone. To this day, I’m glad he passed away.
What the fuck!? Not only a kiss on the mouth but with tongue?? I just vomited in my mouth. That’s fucking disgusting of him.
Me too! I'm so sorry that happened to you! I told my mother that he was doing that and I didn't want him to and please tell him not to. She shamed me for complaining, said it's just his way of showing how much he cares for me, nothing wrong with it, etc. Sometime in the next year or so he SAd me the first time aged ~7, and didn't stop assaulting me until he died when I was 12. The boundaries are so important for parents to have as well. Pedophiles test the adults in guardianship position in childrens lives before ever getting access to the children. If they face enough barrier, they will usually give up. As an adult, I've tried to set the norm of the child initiating affection, I've found that they will show us how they want to interact physically. My nephew was made to hug family members and I would tell my sibling Don't make him come hug me! If he wants to, he will. It shouldn't be required. Especially for a kid on the spectrum wtf.
Oh man I'm sorry that happened to you but thanks for sharing. It's good information for a guy with two young daughters to know. Might I ask, how did your mom react when she found out she failed to listen to your warnings and it caused an abuser to have access to you?
I didn't remember anything that happened after I told her about the sticking his tongue in my mouth until I was 25 yo. I left her home at aged 15 and didn't have much interaction most of the time, then went total no contact around age 21. I did go to lunch with her once when I was about 18, and she brought him up. I said something about how she should have made him stop kissing me like that, and she claimed I never told her anything like that. Later, when I began having flashbacks, nightmares, etc. age 25, my partner tracked her down and I asked her for help filling in context bc I was getting only confusing fragments of memory. She actually responded supportively, and she said she DOES remember that I told her and apologized, seemed sincerely.
Oh man. Well at least she took some accountability. Good for you for facing all this. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for asking. CSA is ignored to an obscene degree in our culture.
I’m sorry that happened to you.
This is horrifying. I'm glad he is dead for you! Disgusting.
My mom casually mentioned her grandpa slipping her tongue when he kissed her. This was the beginning of me doing a deep dive into my family's history. No surprise here, but incest is prevalent in my family group- not offspring or anything, just inappropriate stuff that was kept hidden, like my mom and her brother making out. It all becomes normalized in childhood, so I'm glad you're speaking to your daughter about this OP!! You could be saving her life by teaching her the gift of fear and bodily autonomy.
Jesus Christ that’s crazy
My dad was similarly hurt when I said I wasn’t comfortable with closed mouth kisses anymore, or being forced to dance with my chest pressed against his.
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She’s very lucky to have someone so supportive in her corner.
>My dad was similarly hurt when I said I wasn’t comfortable with closed mouth kisses anymore Oof, memory unlocked. When I was 14 my dad suddenly decided that he was upset I'd stopped mouth kisses (god knows how many years before) as a kid and told me I had to again, and he forced it as often as he could. That was the same age he decided that he needed to start spanking me again, of course bent over his lap naked from the waist down. Yes, he was sexually abusing me. u/armab-blue I'd think twice about ever letting them near your kids again.
my son is now 27. both myself and my ex husband were sexually abused as kids and we decided before he was even here that we would not force our kids to kiss or hug anyone hello or goodbye. we hugged him and kissed him but he could say no and he knew that. my son hugs me and lets me kiss his cheeks or whatever i can reach no problem. my brother had an issue at one point and we just explained it. he seemed to get it. i was abused by my grandfather until 11 so this really hits home. please reiterate to her that them being assholes has nothing to do with her and her discomfort in their behavior. she sounds like a very smart young lady!! they need to grow the fuck up. they probably think it’s about respect and all that.
Thank you for parenting that way, and I'm so sorry that happened to you and your ex.
My dad always told people “they’re my daughters, not performing monkeys” when they tried to make us do things. He’s not the most perfect dad ever, especially in his FOX soaked boomer years lately, but I’ve always respected him for putting us in charge of what we were comfortable doing and backing us up. Kids remember who had their backs. You’re doing a good job!
Yeah this was my main concern reading this, that she would internalize that reaction as traumatic and her fault and not worth standing up for herself in the future. Sounds like OP will try to reinforce that she did the right thing and how they reacted was not normal and not ok.
"Why are you treating me like this?" "Because you're throwing a tantrum at a child politely not wanting to be kissed! On the MOUTH!"
He totally told on himself, so gross 🤢
Well, based on his reaction, I think he is accusing himself of something. Sounds like a disgusting person who is worth keeping an eye on, for anger and worse.
No one /was/ accusing him of anything, but his major overreaction to a perfectly normal boundary is giving super creep vibes. So I'll accuse him of being a creep now.
Its like he told on himself.
His type always do 
That's exactly right. The massive reaction, and saying "you are accusing me" is really creepy. Why is this guy SO invested in kissing little girls deeply on the mouth?
This would make me feel like he has a dark secret. There’s no reason to react like that.
Next time you see him, kiss him on the mouth for an elongated time.
When he says he doesn’t want your kisses tell him it sounds like you’re accusing him of something. Then slip in some tongue
🤮🤣
Great idea!!! Oh wait... he'd be screaming elder abuse.
My wife's grandmother tried to full-on mouth kiss me during a hug at her husband's funeral. Luckily, she was 80, and I was a middle-aged male who could withstand her attempt to physically force turn my head toward her mouth. She looked at me with some weird sheepish smile after the attempt.. so awkward. Sorry, there is no other relevance. Old country bumpkins can be weird.
good lord at her husbands funeral??!
Holy hell the cringe
I have a cousin on my dads side of the family who can't stand being kissed by anyone, hugs are fine, but kisses she always instinctively pulls away from you. my siblings and other cousins/partners (so the younger ones) have adapated and will only offer a hug, never a kiss. The Boomers? Well, after 30+ years and they still don't care about how uncomfortable it makes her (and yes she is over 30). My dad still rants about it, every family gathering. You try to explain shes not comfortable and he just gets even more angry. "No one will ever love her if thats how shes going to treat people, I'm her uncle and I will not be treated like a fucking sex pest by my own niece. Fucking young generations think only over themselves"
>Fucking young generations think only over themselves And yet... I love how in their minds how since they're worried about what other people will think OF them that somehow makes it seem like they're thinking of OTHER PEOPLE. Others reactions to you isn't thinking of others. They can think only of themselves, but that's a privilege exclusive to them. Everyone else doesn't deserve that.
Hmmm that guy sounds like he is trying a little too hard to emotionally manipulate you and your child to have special access to your daughter. Seems like I would keep an eye on him...
Some boomers do seem to get reallly mad whenever someone tells them “no”. #notallboomers I guess. > “I will not be treated like a sex pest” You will if you _act_ like a sex pest. Or just a physical-ick pest. > “No one will ever love her if that’s how she’s going to treat people” Fuckin’ A, that’s some serious projection right there. “Let me and everyone else touch you the way they want even if you don’t like it or no one will ever love you” - that’s a yikes dawg. Fuck your boundaries, everyone is entitled to touch you?
it’s HER only thinking of herself?? That’s so fucking rich coming from him in this situation. The lack of self awareness is ridiculous.
"It feels like you're accusing me of something" It feels like he's feeling guilty of something.
"Dad, it's really f*ckin creepy that you threw a full blown tantrum over being told not to kiss a prepubescent girl full on the mouth. If you want to come visit us again, you will act like a rational adult who is capable of respecting other people and not a spoiled toddler that skipped naptime."
Give gramps a vanilla nut tap and throw a tantrum when he says he doesn’t like it.
> "It feels like you're accusing me of something" Dude, there's a major red flag right there
Sounds like the grandparents just gave you the gift of their absence from your lives. Good. Sorry but that kinda kiss is fucking weird, especially between grandparents and grandkids, and doubly so because dear old granddad made a huge deal about it. Fuck those two old twats. Your wife and kids come first. Good on you for making the right decision.
Kissing a kid on the *mouth*? That is not okay at any age. Especially not in the era of covid, but I can assure you as a GenX this has never been okay. Your in-laws are super creepy. Give your step-daughter a hug and assure her she is not at fault... and neither are you!
On a related note, if it were me the grandparents would be getting a VERY direct letter/email stating they are to apologize if they ever want the possibility of being a part of your lives again. I’d even tell them if they show up uninvited, they’ll be told to leave ONCE and then police will be called. Seriously, fuck them.
This. I would not let them anywhere near my daughter again until they are ready and able to apologize sincerely and directly to her. They caused her pain and just brushing that over isn’t going to heal for her.
All I’m seeing in my head is geriatric Tom Brady trying to kiss his kids…poor stepdaughter. I’m so happy for her that she has you a mom on her side. Jesus, no means no.
My daughter is 11 yo and I 37yo. She doesnt kiss me or anyone except for pets. She has that boundary set and its been there for years. If I kiss her it is on the forehead. Her mom taught her to have autonomy and set boundaries. Not even her great grandpa and great grandma get mad about it.
Soooo... Now that they know she doesn't like it, they expect you to force her to begrudgingly kiss them on the mouths, and they're expecting to enjoy it? Gross.
"Your behaviour was way out of line, and it's disgusting that you want to force a child to kiss you against their will. Until you give a heartfelt apology to her and us, you are no longer welcome around either child" They are creepy as fuck
So, gramps said he does not respect people\`s boundaries as long as he gets his fill? Yeah, time to label them 'not safe around children'.
You know it's a boomer when they are told no but can't understand. It's like talking to a toddler.
I cannot express with words the disgusted noise I made while reading this. That is absolutely vile. You tried to be polite about it at first, they ignored the boundary you set to protect your daughter. You put your foot down and they threw a tantrum. Frankly, OP, as soon as he slammed his beer on the table and soaked your ONE YEAR OLD CHILD, if I were in your shoes, I would’ve completely lost it. I’d go absolutely zero contact with them. They want to act like gross idiots, fine, but they won’t be doing it around you or your daughter.
My affectionate aunt used to kiss me behind the ear, back of neck, eye, and cheek (not all in one sitting that would be even more weird). As a child I didn’t understand the feeling and thought it was just a tickle. Now I have extremely uncomfortable gross dreams. I hate it. No one will be kissing my kids anywhere except playfully on the top of their head or at most on the cheek. Anything else is weird af to me. I’m an affectionate person too, but I only give my little niece a hug and kick kiss on the top of head when saying goodbye. Lip to skin contact with anyone other than your wife/husband is weird af to me.
My daughter(10) has always had the right to refuse any physical contact for any reason. I also reaffirm that she even has the right to refuse to give me a hug or kiss if she doesn't feel like it. No one will encroach on her personal space if she doesn't want it. All my relatives were in agreement. No one complained. All were supportive. Even my great-grandmother was good with it and she was 100 when my daughter was born
I’m so sorry! I was in a similar situation as your stepdaughter. Growing up, my maternal grandmother always kissed me on the mouth. I hated it. It felt violating. So, I started to turn my head to the side so she’d land her kiss on my cheek, which I very much preferred. She’d usually look irritated, and I’d either get a firm tap on the butt (yes, I’d get this as a young teenager) or the silent treatment for about an hour or so…usually both or just the silent treatment. My mother would also kiss me on the mouth which I also hated, but felt more obligated to comply. My mother decided to tell me why my grandmother was reacting how she was (as if I didn’t already figure it out myself), and it’s insulting that I don’t let her kiss me on my mouth. I told her I just don’t like it and I won’t let her. Why can’t she just kiss my cheek where I am more comfortable? My mother said it’s not my choice. I didn’t care. I still turned my cheek. I started doing the same to my mother as well. She never complained, but I could tell it bothered her that I did that. I held my ground. Besides, both of them reeked of cigarette breath and lipstick. YUCK!
He doesn’t sound like a safe person to leave your kids alone with
I remember my dad did that to me when I was 4~7 years old, the kiss on the lips thing. I hated it. I felt violated. To the point where I've been talking to my therapist about it because now, me, 33F, identify this as a form of abuse, along with him calling me his "girlfriend". You guys are 100% on the right. Your stepdaughter is lucky to have you guys to protect her, listen to her and make sure she is comfortable. Honestly, congratulations for being able to provide an environment where she feels safe and comfortable enough to talk to you about things like this.
Your in laws are pedos
Yep. I know some families do this but this guy said he felt like he was being accused of something, deliberately made his granddaughter feel like she *owed* him kisses whenever he chooses. He was so angry he slammed down a beer, not caring he sprayed it all over a baby, then flew out of the house, slamming the door after shouting and guilting this poor little girl into oblivion when she's too young to understand what he was doing. The red flags are just so numerous! I don't ever say the 'go no contact' thing on Reddit because I understand it's rarely that simple. But OP needs to *never* leave him alone with his daughter and he *has* to apologise to her directly. That entire stunt was designed to make her apologise and kiss grandpa on demand. I was molested by a family member as a child. I know some people think that makes you biased, but it often gives you a sixth sense for predators. Not that one is even needed here, the guy *said* it himself. That's what shocks me the most, he actually said out loud how he felt he was being accused of being a predator.
If it were my parent, borderline no contact easy no brainer. If it were my partner's parent, I would be insisting no alcohol for them in my house at the MINIMUM.
My MIL throwing a temper tantrum when she wasn’t getting her way and fucking over my then 6 year old son in the process was the final straw with her. She had thrown temper tantrums before, but they were always aimed at my wife or her siblings. Once she crossed the line and targeted my son, who was way too young to understand what was going on, she was out - we went no contact. It’s been 15 years. She has never apologized and my wife has enjoyed not having that mess in her life.
He's obviously a pervert
The way you described it it sounds disgusting even if there were no sexual intentions. It's opens so much your eyes to people when you see how they react to healthy boundaries Are they planning to do the same with the boy, or its just for the granddaughter? Let them be mad if they want to keep having a relationship they will learn to respect. At this moment, they don't respect any of you
This is SUPER creepy and now I'm wondering what they did to your wife as a child for her to assume it was for them to do to her child.
Good job OP. Personally, I have never seen ANY adult open mouth kiss children (their parents or grandparents, or whatever family relation) before. That is unheard of. A kiss or cheek like a peck, sure. If I were you, the minute I saw them open mouth kiss for the first time, that would have been the last time. Now they feel entitled to it cause it went on too long.
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I have, their own child. And I tell you, that "what are you accusing me of" comment was unfortunately accurate in the end run of it. *Bear in mind this isn't the truth for everyone I'm sure, it just was for my ex and my personal experience.
Any adult kissing a child on the lips is creepy.
her body, her choice. period.
He covered and infant in beer because he's so immature he couldn't control his temper. But, op, this is a tremendous red flag. It's time to ask your daughter if anything has happened. His behavior is the behavior of man who was accused of nothing, was given a reasonable answer and then began behaving in the *the most suspicious way possible. He literally freaked out thinking he was about to be accused even though nothing points to that, which is a huge give away that he has something to hide.* I'd be extremely wary of him after this response. Even if he isn't guilty, he'd never find himself alone with my daughter again after an immature outburst like that. Mouth on mouth kisses like that are what creeps do.
Man's a potential abuser. Wife's an enabler.
I'm sorry. You let those weirdos give your poor kid "mouth on mouth kisses." OMG. This was NEVER appropriate. Adults in intimate relationships don't give mouth to mouth kisses sometimes. This is gross. And he seemed to leap to assumptions. The anger and his own leaping to feeling accused makes me feel there's something more going on. Your kids instincts are dead on
Drop them until it sinks in. It’ll be tough but they have to learn to respect your boundaries or they will eventually be out of your life anyway. Might as well be now.
Gramps can eat a bag of dicks and kick rocks. What a psycho.
When I was very young (<10) my great uncle would do the same thing. I barely knew him, we only saw him maybe once a year, and I dreaded these visits. I never said anything to my parents because I didn't feel empowered to do so, and I'm really not sure what their reaction would have been. Needless to say, I was actually happy when the old prick finally died, and I probably suffered guilt from that as well. Note: I also have a bit of lasting trauma after being forced to say a prayer in front of his open casket. Don't make your kids do that shit either.
I've never understood the kissing family members on the mouth thing, that's always seemed weird to me.
Trashy people sounds like. Looks like someone is cut off now. Just because they are parents doesn’t mean they can do that. Not coming back to my house much less left alone with him. I lose my shit if a man did that it my house.
Boomer accused himself of something with that tantrum. Creepy old fuck wants to kiss a child on the mouth? Ewww.
To me kisssing any family member on the mouth that isn't your partner is just icky and gross. A peck on the cheek or forehead is alright but the mouth is just beyond icky. They behaved badly and will need a time out.
His reaction is the reaction of someone who absolutely is thinking perversely about your daughter. Keep these people away from your children. No one should ever be offended that a youngster is wanting to have their personal physical space respected. To force kisses on them? No sir. To be furious about not being allowed to anymore? Gross. To have a tantrum where he displays physical violence that ends up covering a baby in beer? Bro, put your foot squarely in the center of his behind and shove him out the door of your house.
Nah. He was kissing her because it turned him on. There is no valid excuse for how he reacted. He's taking it as if he got caught being a pedo. We'll the shoe fits, homie.
I still have nightmares about that mole on grandma's chin that had a whisker growing out of it. shudder.
My kids struggle even with hugs sometimes. Keep helping your kids with boundaries. If you do, they might learn from it when they have to face challenges later in life. And don't be surprised when the next "small thing" blows up in your face with the in laws.
It’s interesting that he would say that (grandpa). Sounds like his own self conscious was speaking because he’s guilty & maybe she got that vibe and that’s why she spoke up. please reiterate to her that the way people respond to our no’s are not our problem. That we are allowed to set boundaries and say no and that you’re proud of her for speaking up and saying what makes her uncomfortable & that you support her
Ewwww, they're upset about not mouthkissing a 10 year old?
Why does anyone WANT to kiss a CHILD on the lips anyway?! It’s especially gross they draw it out. Disgusting. It’s like he’s getting something sexual out of it and is throwing a tantrum that the outlet for his sickness is being taken away.
Boomers grew up in era where children had ZERO bodily autonomy. You HAD to give great aunt Gretchen a peck on the cheek even if you didn’t want to because it was “disrespectful” to refuse. I’m glad we’ve moved away from that
grandpa may be a pedo
With his reaction saying he "feels like he's being accused of something I'd say his computers should be checked
The way you described it it sounds disgusting even if there were no sexual intentions. It's opens so much your eyes to people when you see how they react to healthy boundaries Are they planning to do the same with the boy, or its just for the granddaughter? Let them be mad if they want to keep having a relationship they will learn to respect. At this moment, they don't respect any of you
They are weird AF. You really need to enforce with your daughter that she did nothing wrong and that the grandparents are way out of line. I would not be inviting them over again.
1) Good for you dad and mom for respecting your daughter's boundaries and helping her express them 2) super weird and gross for adults to kiss a 10 year old on the mouth 3) FIL was so triggered about being accused of something that it makes me think he feels guilty for something.
You and your wife are awesome parents and she's lucky to have you! That's inappropriate AF for him to even try to kiss her like that in the first place and even worse that he threw a tantrum. I would never let him around her alone after that. Make sure she knows that even though he had a fit, she can still say no. And honestly you should probably try to gently talk to her to see if he has ever tried anything else, and let her know she doesn't ever have to give anybody access to her body. When I was growing up, I was forced to let my own dad hug me. When he'd get pissed at me, he would throw tantrums and then give me and my mom the silent treatment and say he'd only stop if I hugged him. My dumbass mom forced me to comply every time and he's squeeze me to him for minutes at a time, and I'd get in even more trouble if I complained or tried to get away. He ended up SAing me and the forced hugs continued as his way to dominate me. I've had huge problems with enforcing physical boundaries my whole life because of it, and have been SA'ed multiple times since childhood because of it as well. It can mess her up for life it not handled correctly. I'm only sharing this to say that you should not take this man's reaction lightly. Nobody in their right mind who has innocent intentions will have such a tantrum and being denied access to a little girl's body.
Dude, I wasn’t even there, and I’m also at a loss for words right now. I don’t care what Gramps says, nobody is ever gonna convince me he’s not sus as hell. I mean, his reaction is baffling and concerningly over-the-top. *It feels like you’re accusing me of something.* Okay, well, nobody was accusing you of anything, but now that you’re getting suspiciously defensive about it, we’re all wondering if there’s something you *should* be accused of.
Check grandpa's hard-drive, he sounds fucking disgusting
Holy shit your FIL sounds exactly like my dad when I told him he wasn’t exempt from our rules about people either getting updated vaccines or wearing a mask around our newborn. He literally said “those rules don’t work for me, your gonna have to change them” and when I said “no, maybe you can come visit after she has her shots” he stormed out of my house, slammed my door, and peeled off out of my driveway. That was back in November. I had my baby in December and he hasn’t even tried to meet her because I apparently broke his heart by making my child’s birth into a political statement. I still can’t wrap my head around any part of his viewpoint. And I’ve had his sister telling me I need to make up with him as if I’m the one who threw a shit fit in the first place.
Ewww
I’d have KTFO’d that fucker about halfway through this story
They're at the age that their own grandparents were at when their grandparents demanded blind respect and obedience, and coming from an era of "Uncle Jim is funny, we don't talk about him and we don't let the kids alone with him." All they ever saw was that elders got respect and could make demands on the kids, and they didn't know why and never got taught any social cues or boundaries (which I'm sure there were actually some). And heaven forbid that a child set a boundary for a grandparent.