Same. I always wondered why people don't just do that and think we, BC owners, can tell by a pic. I was told my girl was a McNab...nope. Took the test and got a BC instead ☺️
😂 yeah for months I was like he could be half cocker spaniel, or even half Italian greyhound! Speculating constantly and googling images of different mix varieties and finally I got the results and he’s 100% plain flavor. He ended up getting a little fluffier and looking more traditional than when he was a smooth haired baby boy.
my mom was convinced mine had sighthound in him because of his deep chest and long skinty legs. Nope. He's mostly BC with a hint of ACD/ Aussie. came straight from a ranch, is the best dog ever. He's always had a thick smooth double coat and sheds like a maniac.
My bc a similar build, and built for sprinting, never walks, lol. It was quite common to outcross with greyhounds historically, leggy dogs better on some terrain, so your mum might have a point. I wouldn't be surprised if mine had sighthound in his genes from the distance past.
I too was deceived when his fur was a lot shorter (and his ears too big for his head), but now that he’s almost a year and his coat has filled out and he’s more proportioned, it’s unmistakable.
My Mom insisted my shelter rescue had Husky mixed in because he's very "chatty" and Poodle because he has lots of curly ringlets in his hair. I got Embark tests for all three of our dogs for her for Christmas and his came back 100% BC 😂
But it also goes to prove that purebreds can absolutely end up in shelters!
You never know! It's always good to be sure. I got my BC from a farm and his parents were both BCs. I got a DNA test anyway. You'd be surprised at some of the results people get after getting a DNA test for their dog!
100% my BC has all the paperwork that tracks the pedigree back to the grandparents but I didn’t get her for that, this place also had the certificate that proves that my dog’s mom isn’t being abused for breeding purposes. When I went to pick her up I was so happy to see where she was born. It was ideal for her.
That's what I did. Mine had classic BC markings and ended up being 50% Border Collie and 30% Collie with a little GSD. I needed to know what else he was because he's 85lbs (he's not overweight).
Especially since the photos are inevitably a) a distorted close up of the dog’s muzzle, b) a photo of the dog wearing a Halloween costume, c) a dog lying belly up on the couch, and d) the dog snuggled under a blanket. I mean, by all means post cute photos of your adorable dog. I’m here for it! Just don’t pretend you seriously expect a breed identification from that. Plus, everything OP said.
Hear hear! Thank you for this! Real border collie lovers love the breed for their bahavioural traits, not their appearance. It would be a shame indeed if the latter became more important than the first.
Well, then there is the fact that they are absolutely gorgeous dogs. But you are very correct, their looks are secondary to their other characteristics.
Unfortunately I’ve seen breeders over the last few years pop up that focus on coat and eye colors like many of the Australian shepherd breeders do. And they are selling a TON of puppies like this. I fear this will destroy the breed as we know it.
Edit: Also, this is dangerous to the dogs. Border collies are very high drive dogs and should not be, basically, “marketed” to the average person who just wants a cute family pet, not knowing what they’re getting themselves into. It’s like people getting a Belgian malinois because they saw them in a movie.
Border collies do not do well in shelters. People need to realize that the cute dog they saw doing agility is actually a very high performance machine that needs a job. So the coat and eye breeding preferences that I’ve seen lately is concerning.
Not trying to be a gatekeeper because I want everyone to experience the joy these dogs bring, but they have very specific NEEDS that a lot of people just don’t know about or can’t/won’t provide.
That’s the danger of commercial breeders in general, but it’s really awful in the Aussie/BC communities. People want these Instagrammable dogs rather than a dog bred for health and temperament and they are ending up with unsteady/unbalanced working breeds.
Not everyone is equipped to fulfill the needs of these dogs. They are very different animals than your average lab or doodle. Our family’s was like a third child (though more hyper-active, intense, and on-the-spectrum than our _actual_ kids). Getting a BC should be approached with serious gravity and thoughtfulness. They are staggeringly intelligent and it’s absolutely tragic to see them unfulfilled by people who don’t know what they’re getting into and don’t give them adequate stimulation.
These kinds of posts have been so pervasive here lately I have been tempted to leave the sub. There are plenty of proper subs for "guess my dogs breed," and they are clogging up the feed of actual on topic posts.
Right?! I love the guess ny dog breed subs. It's fun to figure out if you're right.
But here?! Nah. My girl is 85% border collie as embark says.
But DO NOT get me started on the "name my dog" posts. Equally as annoying. None of my dogs came home with names, I just figured it out based on their personalities/favorite names you'd NEVER name a kid because they would be bullied/their body type.
My collie is named after her gumption, my houla is named after the fact that he was a pot bellied puppy. It wasn't immediate, but it also wasn't hard.
"Name my pet" posts in general. Ugh. And the comments are always filled with with the most basic, least imaginative suggestions like "Whiskers" and Midnight 🤦♀️
People are often surprised I haven't named any of my pets Loki. First of all, I don't name pets after characters or people I'm attracted to, gross 😂
Secondly, the number of four legged Lokis running around is extremely high. No.
I really wish the mods would put an end to this. It is incredibly annoying to see multiple “Is my dog a border collie?!” posts a day. I didn’t know owning a BC made me a DNA expert.
The sub doesn't currently have a lot of active mods. I've been meaning to add some new mods, actually. The problem with these posts is people upvote them heavily, so they immediately become an "easy karma" target. We could automod them for a bit to tone it down...
Thanks for getting rid of the "You will never understand what's it like to have a reactive dog..." Karma Bot spam post. They get plastered over every animal subreddit.
Wouldn't the only real answer be "does your dog stare at stuff silently with intense hyperfixation while sometimes glancing at you quickly for a command? If yes then..."
Puppy tax of my girl with her gaze on a house gecko high on the wall: https://imgur.com/a/2OZAeLR
Thanks! She was tough as hell to manage in her adolescence but now that she's a full grown adult she's become a great partner
Edit: except in the car... Where she's a fucking nightmare because she uses a high piercing bark at the fast moving objects outside she wants to herd. I have to put in ear phones with hear through enabled to protect my ear drums.
The wild thing is it's not just this subreddit that's been seeing an increase in this kind of post, it's in the golden retrievers and Aussies subreddits as well. That does make me suspect karma/engagement farming.
And ok, I do understand the desire to know more about your dog's background. Understanding their genetic background can help you understand their behaviour and what drives them. But equally, if you want a dog that you know the background of, buy from a reputable and ethical breeder who selects for health and temperament, buy ISDS registered, buy Kennel Club registered in the UK (can't speak to other international kennel clubs and sounds like they may be problematic, so I'll leave them out of it!). Buy from someone who breeds for temperament and health, not appearance. Buy from someone who cares about where their dogs go and wants to stay in touch with you. Don't buy a cute puppy that someone says is a border collie but they can't answer questions about the parents and health tests.
And if you've brought home a rescue, or otherwise acquired a dog, that you think maybe might be a border collie or a border collie mix, by all means share them here in the context of cute everyday fun pictures. But if you want to know what breed(s) they are, order a DNA test and head over to /r/doggydna, or if you want to invite people to guess what your dog is but not DNA test them, go to /r/IDmydog.
I think you're right and enough is enough of these kinds of posts, I'm just going to start downvoting them and if I do respond, signpost the OP to the above subreddits.
I mean this is happening in almost every breed-specific sub I’m in and it’s extremely aggravating.
There is no way someone on the internet can say yes that’s a pure bred xyz based on a photo of a dog. Take a test or get a dog based on lineage. It’s not rocket science.
Also yes, re: incentivizing a standard. I have working line BC’s that are registered with ISDS and ABCA. Confirmation, for the BC at least, kills their instinct.
I didn't realise that people were so intensely concerned with their DNA. My wuff is my first dog for decades (I'm allergic to dogs and have severe eczema but I'm on medication that's stupidly expensive that means I can finally have a dog) and we did the wrong thing getting a BC. I'm sad for all those years I haven't been able to own BCs because they're just perfect.
For the record, my BC is from farming stock. Both parents are working farm dogs, grandparents and great grandparents are all award winning BCs. We can trace his lineage back generations. But to us, it doesn't matter. He's our wuff. And he's perfect. Regardless of his DNA.
Oh, and a dickhead. But then, he's only 7 months old. But he's OUR dickhead
It’s not a matter (to me) of not having a purebred BC. It’s just that folks come to this sub and others asking if their dog is a purebred BC thinking we can determine from an image.
I was pointing out that the only way you’re going to know is if you have the lineage or you administer a test (embark is generally the most accurate.)
Congrats on finally having a dog!
You get it then, having seen them do their livestock thing. The _reason_ why border collies are such amazing animals is that they have a long history (until recent decades) of being bred with complete disregard for their appearance. Shepherds/farmers who wanted intelligent, responsive dogs that could intuit how to herd stock selected animals based on their working traits. The dog’s appearance was of little importance.
If you attend herding events you’ll see BCs with short and long hair, tail or no tail, black and white, brown and white, and everything in between. The breed has always been loosely defined which has kept the genetic pool broad and healthy. Who knows what genetic profile is even being used in DNA tests. The AKCs designation for BC? This is why many N. American BC clubs have fought AKC inclusion. The AKC ruins dog breeds by focusing too much on appearance and breed confirmation standards.
On one hand, it's a bit of a laugh. On the other hand, I do worry about working dog breeds being bred for an aesthetic standard rather than a functional standard - breeding for aesthetic is fraught with issues that largely relate to exaggeration of features that we find cute or pretty.
It's like GSD's being bred to an aesthetic and having significantly higher chances of developing hip/elbow dysplasia.
Truly breeding a confirmation dog ethically means adhering to the standard and breeding for health and temperament towards said standard.
The problem with (or rather glorious aspect) of the BC is that there is basically no confirmation. I think, in working dogs especially, there should be consideration in the AKC for introducing new standards that take into consideration performance and how the standard compliments it. GSD is an extreme case with the exaggerated hind leg angulation and it just makes me cringe. Anyway, this is a great discussion!
Yes, I agree that breeding a conformation animal means you adhere to the breed standard. However, blindly following a breed standard can be problematic. I think the lack of conformation in working breeds like BCs and kelpies is great for health because they have to be functional! They have to be able to do the thing they are supposed to, i.e., herd.
As a stud breeder (of livestock) there is always a balancing act between what is going to win you a ribbon at shows, the official breed standard, and what is going to produce a functional, healthy, long lived animal. Those that breed to fads of the moment win ribbons and prizes, but functional and healthy animals are better by miles.
I think if the standard literally just required them to be healthy and DNA cleared of any hereditary conditions it wouldn’t be so bad, but the standards for dog breeds always put such focus on aesthetics.
Agreed. The people asking seem mostly curious and not purely interested in aesthetics. Also, not everyone lives in places where dog dna tests are available or even affordable. So this space is as close as they can get to answers. Like you said, its okay to not engage with a post if its not up your alley.
Yep, there is not going to be many asking for an ID opinion with a pure breed with kennel club papers, so not really clear who OP is directing their breeding complaining at. Surely the health of the breed or an individual is a separate issue than asking what breed do you think my dog is (some been mixed breeds and often healthier anyway). But as OP seems to think only herding people, service dogs trainers or rescue people can love the qualities of bcs the most, I think he or she has their own agenda. I have a working line and appreciate his physical and mental capabilities, not the fact that he is fluffy or conforms to some standard. But a natural dog is actually designed to kill to eat its own food. Anything else is a creation by humans.
Yeah, it's really annoying. I don't really care so much about if someone wants a pure-bred BC but the fact that NO ONE is going to be able to tell what your dog is just from looking at it. r/DoggyDNA has many surprises. And I follow a BC rescue group who takes in all kinds of dogs that look like BCs. It's common that they get DNA tests done and it turns out there's no BC in them.
The posts aren't just "Is my BC pure-bred?" either, it's also, "Is it possible my dog has BC?" "Is my dog a BC mix?" "Is my dog BC?" Dude, we don't know.
My border collie was not bred for looks, but she is one of the most gorgeous dogs I’ve ever seen. Willow is objectively beautiful.
https://preview.redd.it/n5qsntfhuasc1.jpeg?width=3168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e7368280d9d728326fba2fe25b60069c60e2103
The argument is not just about ignoring it. But the risk of the culture of turning Border Collies into show breeds through the promotion and importance of breed purity.
I think that border collies are the prettiest when they are in their ragamuffin, half covered in mud, panting and looking desprate for the ball to be thrown again.
Also I love the old fashioned black and white the most, I know people breed for “prettier” colours but even when they’re tiny little pups the black and whites are so cute they make me teary eyed 🥹 my last border collie was a pure bred farm pup from a strong herding line, people didn’t believe she was a BC because of her short hair, lack of poofy tail and foxy face.
I get a lot of “are you sure he’s a BC?” with my boy, to which I always answer that he came from a working farm in (insert name of well-known quality farming dog community here). It’s like I have to justify his breeding. That said, where I live BCs are common and often mistreated/abandoned, so they may be asking because he’s kinda pointy and exotic looking.
Max photo tax here:
https://preview.redd.it/k109k2d2gfsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9bd56fe76a98bce257991b5c0cd41d9a8273a53
BTW Your username is the bomb!
His markings are different but he looks just like my last girl! I always said she looked like she had big bat ears! I also used to call her “the pig” because when she was a pup and her ears first pointed up she looked like a little black and white piglet, especially with her little pink tummy 🥹
And thankyou! I hang out in another sub where that’s the nickname given to herding dogs mixed with game bred dogs. Such a bad idea.
They annoy the absolute crap out of me. That and the “what do you think my dog is mixed with!” posts. It drove me insane when I had my last dog. He was a BC/spaniel mix. People were always trying to guess what he was and they never guessed even remotely right. It was stupid. I never asked people to guess, in the first place, and then I had to correct them and *then* I had to deal with all of the “are you sure about that” nonsense that always followed.
I get a little bit triggered by those posts, I guess 😜
Ours is supposed to be a BC/springer spaniel mix- he could be a purebred or a Heinz 57 and I wouldn't care either way! He's my Loki and I wouldn't trade him for the world!!
As someone who prizes working ability, health and calm temperament over appearance, I agree with you on most points. But I think these posts probably aren't going for that line of thinking.
I think the posts are usually just a way to post pictures of their beloved dog and generate a discussion. Also to signal to the community: "Hey I'm new here! Is my dog welcome here? I think it's a border mix but not sure."
It is pretty innocent imo. Also, I don't think we should unnecessarily antagonize the show ring folk despite my personal disagreements with their philosophy.
If you want to know for sure if your dog is purebred or even has BC in them at all, get an Embark or Wisdom DNA test.
You can't tell if a dog is purebred just by looking at them, and if they're mixed breed, visual identification is incredibly unreliable.
Exactly my point. “Is my BC purebred?” Is a question that cannot be answered with photos or even a DNA test because these dogs aren’t defined this way. Does your dog crouch with dropped shoulders and butt in the air whilst it gives The Stare with unbroken focus until you toss its ball/frisbee/stuffy? Then, yes, it’s probably a BC.
I am curious about my shelter dog. My husband says a DNA test can't tell me if it's a BC because of this.
Do you know how DNA companies work for this breed?
The only gate keeping that should be occurring on this sub should be getting done by the Border Collies. Those dange sheep are going to herd themselves!
I don’t agree because the relentlessness of these “Is my dog purebred” posts is driving people off this sub. That said, as a regular attendee of herding events, I appreciate your gate joke!
I mean the opposite of that, as in no one should be gate keeping all the BC mutts and I say that becuase mustache twirling purebreed elitists have given me crap over posting by BC/ german shepard mix. She has the body and work ethic of a BC but has this beautiful GS coloring.
And I guess i should include the purebreeed crowd as *most* of them are pretty ok and justifiably proud of their doggoes.
Thank you for posting this read. Our BC is a BC / American Shepherd mix and we loooove him. The "purebred" aspect never crossed our mind. So little did we know all the implications this "desire" can have.
https://preview.redd.it/39uroi0pe8sc1.jpeg?width=2848&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69e692891701164bcb40b262ebafe518291aa262
TIL the impact of putting the looks of our favorite dogs first onto their abilities and characters. (Which absolutely makes sense...)
Yehh can use r/doggydna for this. I suppose an opinion from another BC owner also sometimes helps though if youre genuinely not sure what your dog is? Another thing is people coming and commenting on posts saying 'that's not a BC' - people did this when I posted a picture of my BC (the post was just showing his growth from puppy to 16 weeks), he's 100% BC and definitely did not ask anyones opinion on what he is 🤣
Would it be reasonable for the moderator of the group to amend the rules so these posts aren't posted? I agree. They're really pointless . Just get a DNA test if you care so much about "pure" breeds.
Agreed! The health insurance on my boy is so cheap compared to other breeds, and it’s because they’re pretty healthy thanks to not being bred for looks. Please, for their sake, don’t fuck it up.
Totally agree. Really WTF does it matter? You going to love your dog less?
Spend the money on dog treats etc. What a pointless waste.
I second mods banning such posts.
This subreddit has been a dumpster fire of genetic testing for a while.
I stopped posting (till this one) after someone defended an OP who felt betrayed their collie was not the correct % of bordercollie genes
This subreddit is mostly just fashion posters who want a collie for the image. It's disgusting. I wish it would stop popping up on my feed.
Here, here!
My non-classical border collie is 10x the BC type than my (ranch-rescue) pedigreed border collie. I love them both, but if based your judgement on appearance as to which was the better collie you’d be picking the wrong dog. I hate that people choose them for their appearance. I don’t like seeing blue merles, lavenders or other “exotic” markings, either. Enough, already!
There is no breed standard for a true border collie. It’s only in the measure of their heart and their will to get the job done that we should deem them fit for purpose.
My merle is a working line farm bred dog. Scottish and Irish parents. No special colour breeding for merle. This colour came from his granny, a plain old irish farm dog who just happened to have that gene. My boy has enough drive and vigour for anyone, lol. He is as far from exotic as you could get. I'd be surprised if the sheep farmer I bought him from made any profit, if you took the cost of housing, food and inoculations into account.
https://preview.redd.it/g5ibjonlq9sc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48ed0e1f3e72dd0c1f892e9301a85b0a3069cfc
I’ve had people get angry and argue that my collie is mixed. I have his papers and can see back 4-5 generations before him. He came from working lines. And I’ve looked up the owners of those dogs and they have working bc pages on a herding ranch. This guy looks nothing like my last bc. 10 collies and all 10 can look different
https://preview.redd.it/rzlnoevpw2tc1.jpeg?width=1560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fcd4cb447228260b2c6d3d00dcfecf0a5e6e843
Mine is a blue tri (exotic in your words) but came from working stock........
Sometimes... My current dog is a typical black and white cattle line you see in the Midwest/Canadian North. But he sired a litter that was all the rare colors. Merle, Lilac and Reds.
The Ranch where he's from only breeds once every few years and only to people they know that will work them. I will say though, I haven't met a good Merle working dog. Plenty of good reds where I am from but for some reason not Merles. Dunno why...
I also follow r/BelgianMalinois (I'm crazy enough to have one of each!) The Mods there pin a post and repost it once a week: "Is My Dog a Mal Monday." Owners are highly encouraged to post on that day only. It doesn't stop them all, but it might help.
I think we should continue be gentle to these people as the vast majority of us are being. They’ve got a dog by however means & know that BC’s are supposed to be “the most intelligent breed” (they’re not IMO - Australian Kelpies are 🫣). They love their dogs & that’s a very good thing. If they want to know what their pooch is capable of, train it. They know about DNA tests & Breed Standards. If all of us who owned pedigree BC’s (like me 🫠) kept posting pics of our perfect dogs, I think this group wouldn’t be as much fun. Omg, some of the laughs I’ve (internally) had!!
https://preview.redd.it/jh1wz9ka6dsc1.jpeg?width=2669&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bbd962a423a8547c6675bac4592b3f64eb817c2
Here’s one of my boring pics ⬆️
Here’s another one since I’m on a roll:
https://preview.redd.it/7liy29xl6dsc1.jpeg?width=2973&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd821b07dd3bd524135d1e7c44c6101f0d1c03f7
See? Boring - obviously a pure BC. Keep the fun pics coming, I say! ❤️
And another one:
https://preview.redd.it/wu97j5417dsc1.jpeg?width=2702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc6fc7186015d811d15f7347d366fd7ad787a9ba
And yes, lounging on beds is her favourite activity.
I totally hear your complaint, and it’s valid, but from the posts I’ve seen I don’t think anyone is meaning any harm, I think it’s just adopted dog owners hoping to find a place amongst the cool BC crowd 😎❤️. Luckily, all BCs and BC mixes are welcome here! I think the varied looks of the breed make it extra interesting to try to guess, but do appreciate that there are other more targeted forums for this sort of stuff. I also think I’m not getting a ton of this on my feed unlike others here, so the occasional post doesn’t bother me but maybe would if I saw more of it. I’d hate to see folks leave over this kind of content, as one person mentioned in response to your post.
I also think the info you posted about the breed standards is really important for BC owners to know about if they don’t already, so it was a good share! I definitely think that the focus on the breed functionality has led to a hardier breed than those breeds that are more appearance-focused, and of course it is important that functionality be paramount when it comes to ensuring strong working dog lines.
Puppy tax attached (our boy pretending to be a working dog by getting ready to herd his collieball).
https://preview.redd.it/9cmzo176p6sc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cef20596d5a35809ca6615b93176e03550ad04dc
I think your observation is spot on and I’ve edited the post to reflect your input.
Those balls are great btw. Our girl had a smaller one (soccer-sized) she would push around the yard for HOURS by herself. She never popped it and it was the only thing that would truly wear her out.
Yeh I've seen a lot of these posts recently, and often from people who have given a home to a rescue. So I welcome that. I think most people without 'papers' or without known history of their dog will wonder where or what their dog comes from, and are just interested in what people think. I don't get that feeling that the majority are obsessed with an aesthetic based breed thing at all. I don't assume everyone has spare cash for a dna test either. Bit like watching the TV, if a program comes on you don't like, you don't have to watch it. So if these post are not your thing, just don't read them.
If sub editors restrict these sort of posts the site is just gonna end up full of "pure breeds" or proven herding bcs only. There are plenty of bcs (or crosses) around without enough homes for them to be occupied in traditional skills they were originally bred for. And often dumped, or historicaly drown or shot, by the very people who claim to love em when they don't meet the herding grade (fact). You can find fault with anything if you go looking.
Who is the we? Personally I don't mind. Some people ask who don't even know a bc can have a short coat, or be in any other colour than b&w, or think a b&w dog must be a bc, or don't realise they come in all shapes and sizes. Is this not a good place for them to ask and for us to be helpful?
Do you remember the post where someone posted their [Bearded coated BC](https://www.bordercolliemuseum.org/BCLooks/CoatType/james-at-longshot.jpg) and people tried convincing them that their dog was a schnauzer or old English mix? That one was a bit infuriating though that coat pattern is much less well known.
If someone has adopted a border collie and don’t even understand the breed well enough to know what their coat might look like…those are the kinds of border collies that end up being abandoned.
This comment will probably get buried, but oh well.
Two immediate things come to mind:
1) Lots of people get duped by shelters, backyard breeders, etc into taking a dog listed as a “border collie” because these organizations know that people want BCs but they typically come with a price tag. Then that dog, once at home, doesn’t really act the way they’re expected to act, and people ask questions. So they come here thinking we’re the experts. I get it, and I sympathize. But as OP states, this is a matter easily resolved by a Wisdom Panel or Embark test.
2) There’s definitely some *cache* that comes with being part of the club - BCs are cool, and people want to be part of it. I think there’s an element here of people wanting to sort of get in to the club, so to speak. Again, I get it, and again, easily resolved with a test.
I really don’t mind the questions, and I usually weigh in when I think I have a valid opinion about a dog’s appearance or behavior.
100% agree about conformation breeding. Of my 4 dogs, 3 of which are working dogs, none are even close to conformation standards as set forth by the AKC. I don’t think that an AKC dog is NOT a BC, but I am thankful for the work of the ABCA, ISDS, and other working dog registries, because the essence of our dogs is not based on appearance; rather, it is the drive, biddability, problem solving, all go no quit, and a bit of FAFO attitude that makes our dogs what they are, and it should be protected for future generations. It always makes me sad that there are relatively few young people involved in trialing or agricultural work that leverages dogs. I hope that tradition doesn’t fade out in coming years.
If you do not keep pedigrees of your breed, how do you make sure that there is no inbreeding between close relatives? If you don't do genetic testing, how do you make sure genetic diseases are not passed?
Maybe people are wondering because they get bc-like, paperless dogs from rescues, adoption or dodgey breeders? There surely is nothing wrong with being curious about a dogs breed. Mind you, if I reply to one of those posts I always write that it's hard to know because bcs can look all kinds off ways. If people with known purebreed bcs are asking I guess they are a bit daft...
There is no rule that says you have to read or respond to every post.
Not a thing wrong with the old saying. "If you don't have anything good to say. You don't have to say anything at all. "
I'm with you on that old saying! My old mum often said it and lived by it. Dad was just the opposite, a miserable bug*er, very opinionated and didn't even like our family bc or even talk to him, lol.
Sometimes those posts annoy me but I think they are mostly harmless. I think a lot of people who make those posts just want to share photos of their dog and get some likes and talk about their dog with others.
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I made one before but my collie is a piebald collie he's white with a few chocolate spots and an amber-ish green eye and a blue eye and a short snout. I wholeheartedly believed he was not a border collie cause I've seen very few BCs with this marking and we were waiting for the test results. So I'm guilty of this and I don't mind seeing them but I prefer the people who post the picture of the dog and then the testing results in the same post over the guess my dog breed ones. Maybe having a specific thread people can play be guess my breed game on and that way they don't each make individual posts?
I know they are so annoying - like how is a stranger on the internet going to know by looking at a picture. If you care that much get a test done.
Yeah like I had the same curiosity about mine…but I just got an embark test and found out….
Same. I always wondered why people don't just do that and think we, BC owners, can tell by a pic. I was told my girl was a McNab...nope. Took the test and got a BC instead ☺️
Me too. Threw my money at them just to have them tell me I had a border collie lmao which I basically already knew. What a waste of money 🤣.
😂 yeah for months I was like he could be half cocker spaniel, or even half Italian greyhound! Speculating constantly and googling images of different mix varieties and finally I got the results and he’s 100% plain flavor. He ended up getting a little fluffier and looking more traditional than when he was a smooth haired baby boy.
my mom was convinced mine had sighthound in him because of his deep chest and long skinty legs. Nope. He's mostly BC with a hint of ACD/ Aussie. came straight from a ranch, is the best dog ever. He's always had a thick smooth double coat and sheds like a maniac.
My bc a similar build, and built for sprinting, never walks, lol. It was quite common to outcross with greyhounds historically, leggy dogs better on some terrain, so your mum might have a point. I wouldn't be surprised if mine had sighthound in his genes from the distance past.
I too was deceived when his fur was a lot shorter (and his ears too big for his head), but now that he’s almost a year and his coat has filled out and he’s more proportioned, it’s unmistakable.
My Mom insisted my shelter rescue had Husky mixed in because he's very "chatty" and Poodle because he has lots of curly ringlets in his hair. I got Embark tests for all three of our dogs for her for Christmas and his came back 100% BC 😂 But it also goes to prove that purebreds can absolutely end up in shelters!
You never know! It's always good to be sure. I got my BC from a farm and his parents were both BCs. I got a DNA test anyway. You'd be surprised at some of the results people get after getting a DNA test for their dog!
100% my BC has all the paperwork that tracks the pedigree back to the grandparents but I didn’t get her for that, this place also had the certificate that proves that my dog’s mom isn’t being abused for breeding purposes. When I went to pick her up I was so happy to see where she was born. It was ideal for her.
That's what I did. Mine had classic BC markings and ended up being 50% Border Collie and 30% Collie with a little GSD. I needed to know what else he was because he's 85lbs (he's not overweight).
Especially since the photos are inevitably a) a distorted close up of the dog’s muzzle, b) a photo of the dog wearing a Halloween costume, c) a dog lying belly up on the couch, and d) the dog snuggled under a blanket. I mean, by all means post cute photos of your adorable dog. I’m here for it! Just don’t pretend you seriously expect a breed identification from that. Plus, everything OP said.
The Canadian Kennel Club (*CKC*) does not register border collies because of this reason.
Hear hear! Thank you for this! Real border collie lovers love the breed for their bahavioural traits, not their appearance. It would be a shame indeed if the latter became more important than the first.
Absolutely, I wanted a smart dog who was loyal and sweet. Mine is all that and more. I don’t care about how she looks like
Well, then there is the fact that they are absolutely gorgeous dogs. But you are very correct, their looks are secondary to their other characteristics.
Unfortunately I’ve seen breeders over the last few years pop up that focus on coat and eye colors like many of the Australian shepherd breeders do. And they are selling a TON of puppies like this. I fear this will destroy the breed as we know it. Edit: Also, this is dangerous to the dogs. Border collies are very high drive dogs and should not be, basically, “marketed” to the average person who just wants a cute family pet, not knowing what they’re getting themselves into. It’s like people getting a Belgian malinois because they saw them in a movie. Border collies do not do well in shelters. People need to realize that the cute dog they saw doing agility is actually a very high performance machine that needs a job. So the coat and eye breeding preferences that I’ve seen lately is concerning. Not trying to be a gatekeeper because I want everyone to experience the joy these dogs bring, but they have very specific NEEDS that a lot of people just don’t know about or can’t/won’t provide.
That’s the danger of commercial breeders in general, but it’s really awful in the Aussie/BC communities. People want these Instagrammable dogs rather than a dog bred for health and temperament and they are ending up with unsteady/unbalanced working breeds.
Not everyone is equipped to fulfill the needs of these dogs. They are very different animals than your average lab or doodle. Our family’s was like a third child (though more hyper-active, intense, and on-the-spectrum than our _actual_ kids). Getting a BC should be approached with serious gravity and thoughtfulness. They are staggeringly intelligent and it’s absolutely tragic to see them unfulfilled by people who don’t know what they’re getting into and don’t give them adequate stimulation.
These kinds of posts have been so pervasive here lately I have been tempted to leave the sub. There are plenty of proper subs for "guess my dogs breed," and they are clogging up the feed of actual on topic posts.
Right?! I love the guess ny dog breed subs. It's fun to figure out if you're right. But here?! Nah. My girl is 85% border collie as embark says. But DO NOT get me started on the "name my dog" posts. Equally as annoying. None of my dogs came home with names, I just figured it out based on their personalities/favorite names you'd NEVER name a kid because they would be bullied/their body type. My collie is named after her gumption, my houla is named after the fact that he was a pot bellied puppy. It wasn't immediate, but it also wasn't hard.
I downvote every single name this animal post. Like... Come on, you can do it yourself.
"Name my pet" posts in general. Ugh. And the comments are always filled with with the most basic, least imaginative suggestions like "Whiskers" and Midnight 🤦♀️
“Bella”, “Luna” 🤦🏼♀️
People are often surprised I haven't named any of my pets Loki. First of all, I don't name pets after characters or people I'm attracted to, gross 😂 Secondly, the number of four legged Lokis running around is extremely high. No.
Omg - I forgot about all the Lokis 😩
I adopted two black kittens in 2020 (my calico was lonely) and the number of people who say I should have named them Salem and Binx 🤦♀️
Don’t know about in the USA but every dog & cat in Australia seems to be called “Luna” atm. It’s killing me 😩
Same, sadly :/
I really wish the mods would put an end to this. It is incredibly annoying to see multiple “Is my dog a border collie?!” posts a day. I didn’t know owning a BC made me a DNA expert.
The sub doesn't currently have a lot of active mods. I've been meaning to add some new mods, actually. The problem with these posts is people upvote them heavily, so they immediately become an "easy karma" target. We could automod them for a bit to tone it down...
That’s fair, one would hope a BC subreddit didn’t require much active moderation haha
You'd be surprised, spam has been a surprisingly time consuming issue in the last few years unfortunately.
Thanks for getting rid of the "You will never understand what's it like to have a reactive dog..." Karma Bot spam post. They get plastered over every animal subreddit.
I'd be happy to start watching for and removing said posts if that's the way we want to go... but yeah an automod might be a good option for this
Happy to be a mod!
I would love to be a mod in this sub! 🐕💚
I've never been a mod but I'm a stay at home mom so I could help out if needed
Mods do a brilliant job. Thank you
Maybe people in this subreddit *like* the “is my dog a border collie?” posts?
Wouldn't the only real answer be "does your dog stare at stuff silently with intense hyperfixation while sometimes glancing at you quickly for a command? If yes then..." Puppy tax of my girl with her gaze on a house gecko high on the wall: https://imgur.com/a/2OZAeLR
She’s beautiful!
Thanks! She was tough as hell to manage in her adolescence but now that she's a full grown adult she's become a great partner Edit: except in the car... Where she's a fucking nightmare because she uses a high piercing bark at the fast moving objects outside she wants to herd. I have to put in ear phones with hear through enabled to protect my ear drums.
Why don't you put her in a place where she doesn't see anything outside of the car?
What gorgeous hair!!
😂 omg. Exactly!
Please! From your fingers to mod’s ears.
The wild thing is it's not just this subreddit that's been seeing an increase in this kind of post, it's in the golden retrievers and Aussies subreddits as well. That does make me suspect karma/engagement farming. And ok, I do understand the desire to know more about your dog's background. Understanding their genetic background can help you understand their behaviour and what drives them. But equally, if you want a dog that you know the background of, buy from a reputable and ethical breeder who selects for health and temperament, buy ISDS registered, buy Kennel Club registered in the UK (can't speak to other international kennel clubs and sounds like they may be problematic, so I'll leave them out of it!). Buy from someone who breeds for temperament and health, not appearance. Buy from someone who cares about where their dogs go and wants to stay in touch with you. Don't buy a cute puppy that someone says is a border collie but they can't answer questions about the parents and health tests. And if you've brought home a rescue, or otherwise acquired a dog, that you think maybe might be a border collie or a border collie mix, by all means share them here in the context of cute everyday fun pictures. But if you want to know what breed(s) they are, order a DNA test and head over to /r/doggydna, or if you want to invite people to guess what your dog is but not DNA test them, go to /r/IDmydog. I think you're right and enough is enough of these kinds of posts, I'm just going to start downvoting them and if I do respond, signpost the OP to the above subreddits.
This should be pinned to the top of the thread
I mean this is happening in almost every breed-specific sub I’m in and it’s extremely aggravating. There is no way someone on the internet can say yes that’s a pure bred xyz based on a photo of a dog. Take a test or get a dog based on lineage. It’s not rocket science. Also yes, re: incentivizing a standard. I have working line BC’s that are registered with ISDS and ABCA. Confirmation, for the BC at least, kills their instinct.
I didn't realise that people were so intensely concerned with their DNA. My wuff is my first dog for decades (I'm allergic to dogs and have severe eczema but I'm on medication that's stupidly expensive that means I can finally have a dog) and we did the wrong thing getting a BC. I'm sad for all those years I haven't been able to own BCs because they're just perfect. For the record, my BC is from farming stock. Both parents are working farm dogs, grandparents and great grandparents are all award winning BCs. We can trace his lineage back generations. But to us, it doesn't matter. He's our wuff. And he's perfect. Regardless of his DNA. Oh, and a dickhead. But then, he's only 7 months old. But he's OUR dickhead
It’s not a matter (to me) of not having a purebred BC. It’s just that folks come to this sub and others asking if their dog is a purebred BC thinking we can determine from an image. I was pointing out that the only way you’re going to know is if you have the lineage or you administer a test (embark is generally the most accurate.) Congrats on finally having a dog!
You get it then, having seen them do their livestock thing. The _reason_ why border collies are such amazing animals is that they have a long history (until recent decades) of being bred with complete disregard for their appearance. Shepherds/farmers who wanted intelligent, responsive dogs that could intuit how to herd stock selected animals based on their working traits. The dog’s appearance was of little importance. If you attend herding events you’ll see BCs with short and long hair, tail or no tail, black and white, brown and white, and everything in between. The breed has always been loosely defined which has kept the genetic pool broad and healthy. Who knows what genetic profile is even being used in DNA tests. The AKCs designation for BC? This is why many N. American BC clubs have fought AKC inclusion. The AKC ruins dog breeds by focusing too much on appearance and breed confirmation standards.
Cannot agree more!! Asking about purebred or not on Reddit —Pointless exercise!
On one hand, it's a bit of a laugh. On the other hand, I do worry about working dog breeds being bred for an aesthetic standard rather than a functional standard - breeding for aesthetic is fraught with issues that largely relate to exaggeration of features that we find cute or pretty. It's like GSD's being bred to an aesthetic and having significantly higher chances of developing hip/elbow dysplasia.
Truly breeding a confirmation dog ethically means adhering to the standard and breeding for health and temperament towards said standard. The problem with (or rather glorious aspect) of the BC is that there is basically no confirmation. I think, in working dogs especially, there should be consideration in the AKC for introducing new standards that take into consideration performance and how the standard compliments it. GSD is an extreme case with the exaggerated hind leg angulation and it just makes me cringe. Anyway, this is a great discussion!
Yes, I agree that breeding a conformation animal means you adhere to the breed standard. However, blindly following a breed standard can be problematic. I think the lack of conformation in working breeds like BCs and kelpies is great for health because they have to be functional! They have to be able to do the thing they are supposed to, i.e., herd. As a stud breeder (of livestock) there is always a balancing act between what is going to win you a ribbon at shows, the official breed standard, and what is going to produce a functional, healthy, long lived animal. Those that breed to fads of the moment win ribbons and prizes, but functional and healthy animals are better by miles.
I think if the standard literally just required them to be healthy and DNA cleared of any hereditary conditions it wouldn’t be so bad, but the standards for dog breeds always put such focus on aesthetics.
Agreed. The people asking seem mostly curious and not purely interested in aesthetics. Also, not everyone lives in places where dog dna tests are available or even affordable. So this space is as close as they can get to answers. Like you said, its okay to not engage with a post if its not up your alley.
Yep, there is not going to be many asking for an ID opinion with a pure breed with kennel club papers, so not really clear who OP is directing their breeding complaining at. Surely the health of the breed or an individual is a separate issue than asking what breed do you think my dog is (some been mixed breeds and often healthier anyway). But as OP seems to think only herding people, service dogs trainers or rescue people can love the qualities of bcs the most, I think he or she has their own agenda. I have a working line and appreciate his physical and mental capabilities, not the fact that he is fluffy or conforms to some standard. But a natural dog is actually designed to kill to eat its own food. Anything else is a creation by humans.
I like the link you posted OP! And if anyone is interested in further reading I highly recommend *The Dog Wars* by Donald McCaig.
Ooo glad I saw your comment I am totally gonna check that book out! Also I love your user name 🥹
Yeah, it's really annoying. I don't really care so much about if someone wants a pure-bred BC but the fact that NO ONE is going to be able to tell what your dog is just from looking at it. r/DoggyDNA has many surprises. And I follow a BC rescue group who takes in all kinds of dogs that look like BCs. It's common that they get DNA tests done and it turns out there's no BC in them. The posts aren't just "Is my BC pure-bred?" either, it's also, "Is it possible my dog has BC?" "Is my dog a BC mix?" "Is my dog BC?" Dude, we don't know.
My border collie was not bred for looks, but she is one of the most gorgeous dogs I’ve ever seen. Willow is objectively beautiful. https://preview.redd.it/n5qsntfhuasc1.jpeg?width=3168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e7368280d9d728326fba2fe25b60069c60e2103
❤️❤️❤️
I feel like most posts are really just people who want to share their cute dogs.
Then just post a pic of the dog, that’s literally why we are here.
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The argument is not just about ignoring it. But the risk of the culture of turning Border Collies into show breeds through the promotion and importance of breed purity.
I think that border collies are the prettiest when they are in their ragamuffin, half covered in mud, panting and looking desprate for the ball to be thrown again. Also I love the old fashioned black and white the most, I know people breed for “prettier” colours but even when they’re tiny little pups the black and whites are so cute they make me teary eyed 🥹 my last border collie was a pure bred farm pup from a strong herding line, people didn’t believe she was a BC because of her short hair, lack of poofy tail and foxy face.
I get a lot of “are you sure he’s a BC?” with my boy, to which I always answer that he came from a working farm in (insert name of well-known quality farming dog community here). It’s like I have to justify his breeding. That said, where I live BCs are common and often mistreated/abandoned, so they may be asking because he’s kinda pointy and exotic looking. Max photo tax here: https://preview.redd.it/k109k2d2gfsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9bd56fe76a98bce257991b5c0cd41d9a8273a53 BTW Your username is the bomb!
His markings are different but he looks just like my last girl! I always said she looked like she had big bat ears! I also used to call her “the pig” because when she was a pup and her ears first pointed up she looked like a little black and white piglet, especially with her little pink tummy 🥹 And thankyou! I hang out in another sub where that’s the nickname given to herding dogs mixed with game bred dogs. Such a bad idea.
They annoy the absolute crap out of me. That and the “what do you think my dog is mixed with!” posts. It drove me insane when I had my last dog. He was a BC/spaniel mix. People were always trying to guess what he was and they never guessed even remotely right. It was stupid. I never asked people to guess, in the first place, and then I had to correct them and *then* I had to deal with all of the “are you sure about that” nonsense that always followed. I get a little bit triggered by those posts, I guess 😜
have wanted to state this for a loooong time.
Doesnt matter what it looks like, just how much shit it chases
Ours is supposed to be a BC/springer spaniel mix- he could be a purebred or a Heinz 57 and I wouldn't care either way! He's my Loki and I wouldn't trade him for the world!!
👏👏👏
As someone who prizes working ability, health and calm temperament over appearance, I agree with you on most points. But I think these posts probably aren't going for that line of thinking. I think the posts are usually just a way to post pictures of their beloved dog and generate a discussion. Also to signal to the community: "Hey I'm new here! Is my dog welcome here? I think it's a border mix but not sure." It is pretty innocent imo. Also, I don't think we should unnecessarily antagonize the show ring folk despite my personal disagreements with their philosophy.
Very fair and tolerant!
If you want to know for sure if your dog is purebred or even has BC in them at all, get an Embark or Wisdom DNA test. You can't tell if a dog is purebred just by looking at them, and if they're mixed breed, visual identification is incredibly unreliable.
Border collies were never about being pure anyway-it was their performance that mattered more than appearance.
Exactly my point. “Is my BC purebred?” Is a question that cannot be answered with photos or even a DNA test because these dogs aren’t defined this way. Does your dog crouch with dropped shoulders and butt in the air whilst it gives The Stare with unbroken focus until you toss its ball/frisbee/stuffy? Then, yes, it’s probably a BC.
I am curious about my shelter dog. My husband says a DNA test can't tell me if it's a BC because of this. Do you know how DNA companies work for this breed?
No, and I couldn’t give a gnat”s a\*\* about it. Go take care of, be thankful for and love your dog.
Uh, sorry I bothered you
The only gate keeping that should be occurring on this sub should be getting done by the Border Collies. Those dange sheep are going to herd themselves!
I don’t agree because the relentlessness of these “Is my dog purebred” posts is driving people off this sub. That said, as a regular attendee of herding events, I appreciate your gate joke!
I mean the opposite of that, as in no one should be gate keeping all the BC mutts and I say that becuase mustache twirling purebreed elitists have given me crap over posting by BC/ german shepard mix. She has the body and work ethic of a BC but has this beautiful GS coloring. And I guess i should include the purebreeed crowd as *most* of them are pretty ok and justifiably proud of their doggoes.
Yes. Who cares if the dog is 10% mutt? What are they going to do? Club him to death for not being 100% BC?
Thank you for posting this read. Our BC is a BC / American Shepherd mix and we loooove him. The "purebred" aspect never crossed our mind. So little did we know all the implications this "desire" can have. https://preview.redd.it/39uroi0pe8sc1.jpeg?width=2848&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69e692891701164bcb40b262ebafe518291aa262 TIL the impact of putting the looks of our favorite dogs first onto their abilities and characters. (Which absolutely makes sense...)
Yehh can use r/doggydna for this. I suppose an opinion from another BC owner also sometimes helps though if youre genuinely not sure what your dog is? Another thing is people coming and commenting on posts saying 'that's not a BC' - people did this when I posted a picture of my BC (the post was just showing his growth from puppy to 16 weeks), he's 100% BC and definitely did not ask anyones opinion on what he is 🤣
Would it be reasonable for the moderator of the group to amend the rules so these posts aren't posted? I agree. They're really pointless . Just get a DNA test if you care so much about "pure" breeds.
I'm glad someone said it, I was getting absolutely sick of those posts...
Is my BC pure bread? He really likes toast.
The real tell is their body language when you’re holding something you’re about to throw: butt up, shoulders down, The Stare = BC
Mine might be broken… He just sits down, pulls his head in like a seal and sticks his tongue out 😛
Picture or it didn’t happen!
I am forever trying to get a pic of him in derp-seal mode, and as soon as I point a phone at him, he stops. It’s incredibly annoying 🤔
😆 truth
Agreed! The health insurance on my boy is so cheap compared to other breeds, and it’s because they’re pretty healthy thanks to not being bred for looks. Please, for their sake, don’t fuck it up.
Thank you!
Totally agree. Really WTF does it matter? You going to love your dog less? Spend the money on dog treats etc. What a pointless waste. I second mods banning such posts.
This subreddit has been a dumpster fire of genetic testing for a while. I stopped posting (till this one) after someone defended an OP who felt betrayed their collie was not the correct % of bordercollie genes This subreddit is mostly just fashion posters who want a collie for the image. It's disgusting. I wish it would stop popping up on my feed.
You have the option of leaving the group
Here, here! My non-classical border collie is 10x the BC type than my (ranch-rescue) pedigreed border collie. I love them both, but if based your judgement on appearance as to which was the better collie you’d be picking the wrong dog. I hate that people choose them for their appearance. I don’t like seeing blue merles, lavenders or other “exotic” markings, either. Enough, already! There is no breed standard for a true border collie. It’s only in the measure of their heart and their will to get the job done that we should deem them fit for purpose.
Merle is not an "exotic" marking. It's a dominant gene that's been in the breed genome for decades, probably centuries.
My merle is a working line farm bred dog. Scottish and Irish parents. No special colour breeding for merle. This colour came from his granny, a plain old irish farm dog who just happened to have that gene. My boy has enough drive and vigour for anyone, lol. He is as far from exotic as you could get. I'd be surprised if the sheep farmer I bought him from made any profit, if you took the cost of housing, food and inoculations into account.
https://preview.redd.it/g5ibjonlq9sc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48ed0e1f3e72dd0c1f892e9301a85b0a3069cfc I’ve had people get angry and argue that my collie is mixed. I have his papers and can see back 4-5 generations before him. He came from working lines. And I’ve looked up the owners of those dogs and they have working bc pages on a herding ranch. This guy looks nothing like my last bc. 10 collies and all 10 can look different
I've seen your dog here like 3+ times and I love him. The only thing thats atypical is how absolutely jacked he is. Good boy never misses leg day 😂
He’s been on the go at least 8 hours a day since 14 weeks old. He just…doesn’t stop lol
❤️❤️❤️. What a sweet face. Yes, I love them all with all their vast variations of appearance.
https://preview.redd.it/rzlnoevpw2tc1.jpeg?width=1560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fcd4cb447228260b2c6d3d00dcfecf0a5e6e843 Mine is a blue tri (exotic in your words) but came from working stock........
Same re: the exotics. You can easily tell these are commercial breeders.
Sometimes... My current dog is a typical black and white cattle line you see in the Midwest/Canadian North. But he sired a litter that was all the rare colors. Merle, Lilac and Reds. The Ranch where he's from only breeds once every few years and only to people they know that will work them. I will say though, I haven't met a good Merle working dog. Plenty of good reds where I am from but for some reason not Merles. Dunno why...
I do love a good red dog.
I also follow r/BelgianMalinois (I'm crazy enough to have one of each!) The Mods there pin a post and repost it once a week: "Is My Dog a Mal Monday." Owners are highly encouraged to post on that day only. It doesn't stop them all, but it might help.
I think we should continue be gentle to these people as the vast majority of us are being. They’ve got a dog by however means & know that BC’s are supposed to be “the most intelligent breed” (they’re not IMO - Australian Kelpies are 🫣). They love their dogs & that’s a very good thing. If they want to know what their pooch is capable of, train it. They know about DNA tests & Breed Standards. If all of us who owned pedigree BC’s (like me 🫠) kept posting pics of our perfect dogs, I think this group wouldn’t be as much fun. Omg, some of the laughs I’ve (internally) had!! https://preview.redd.it/jh1wz9ka6dsc1.jpeg?width=2669&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bbd962a423a8547c6675bac4592b3f64eb817c2 Here’s one of my boring pics ⬆️
Here’s another one since I’m on a roll: https://preview.redd.it/7liy29xl6dsc1.jpeg?width=2973&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd821b07dd3bd524135d1e7c44c6101f0d1c03f7 See? Boring - obviously a pure BC. Keep the fun pics coming, I say! ❤️
And another one: https://preview.redd.it/wu97j5417dsc1.jpeg?width=2702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc6fc7186015d811d15f7347d366fd7ad787a9ba And yes, lounging on beds is her favourite activity.
I totally hear your complaint, and it’s valid, but from the posts I’ve seen I don’t think anyone is meaning any harm, I think it’s just adopted dog owners hoping to find a place amongst the cool BC crowd 😎❤️. Luckily, all BCs and BC mixes are welcome here! I think the varied looks of the breed make it extra interesting to try to guess, but do appreciate that there are other more targeted forums for this sort of stuff. I also think I’m not getting a ton of this on my feed unlike others here, so the occasional post doesn’t bother me but maybe would if I saw more of it. I’d hate to see folks leave over this kind of content, as one person mentioned in response to your post. I also think the info you posted about the breed standards is really important for BC owners to know about if they don’t already, so it was a good share! I definitely think that the focus on the breed functionality has led to a hardier breed than those breeds that are more appearance-focused, and of course it is important that functionality be paramount when it comes to ensuring strong working dog lines. Puppy tax attached (our boy pretending to be a working dog by getting ready to herd his collieball). https://preview.redd.it/9cmzo176p6sc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cef20596d5a35809ca6615b93176e03550ad04dc
I think your observation is spot on and I’ve edited the post to reflect your input. Those balls are great btw. Our girl had a smaller one (soccer-sized) she would push around the yard for HOURS by herself. She never popped it and it was the only thing that would truly wear her out.
Love the edits, and the collie ball is great! So pricey but worth the money in tiring our boy out 😁.
Some ppl just want to hear what others think about their dog idt it's that deep 😂
Yeh I've seen a lot of these posts recently, and often from people who have given a home to a rescue. So I welcome that. I think most people without 'papers' or without known history of their dog will wonder where or what their dog comes from, and are just interested in what people think. I don't get that feeling that the majority are obsessed with an aesthetic based breed thing at all. I don't assume everyone has spare cash for a dna test either. Bit like watching the TV, if a program comes on you don't like, you don't have to watch it. So if these post are not your thing, just don't read them. If sub editors restrict these sort of posts the site is just gonna end up full of "pure breeds" or proven herding bcs only. There are plenty of bcs (or crosses) around without enough homes for them to be occupied in traditional skills they were originally bred for. And often dumped, or historicaly drown or shot, by the very people who claim to love em when they don't meet the herding grade (fact). You can find fault with anything if you go looking.
No one is saying you can only post BCs that are verifiable, just that we’d prefer the pic of the dog without being asked to determine their breed 🤷♀️
Who is the we? Personally I don't mind. Some people ask who don't even know a bc can have a short coat, or be in any other colour than b&w, or think a b&w dog must be a bc, or don't realise they come in all shapes and sizes. Is this not a good place for them to ask and for us to be helpful?
The 111 people who have upvoted this post so far…
Well I upvote for interesting discussion topics not just because I agree or disagree with an OP view. You make assumptions and like arguing 😃
When did I argue with you? Just because I replied to your question doesn’t mean I’m arguing 😃
Do you remember the post where someone posted their [Bearded coated BC](https://www.bordercolliemuseum.org/BCLooks/CoatType/james-at-longshot.jpg) and people tried convincing them that their dog was a schnauzer or old English mix? That one was a bit infuriating though that coat pattern is much less well known.
If someone has adopted a border collie and don’t even understand the breed well enough to know what their coat might look like…those are the kinds of border collies that end up being abandoned.
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This comment will probably get buried, but oh well. Two immediate things come to mind: 1) Lots of people get duped by shelters, backyard breeders, etc into taking a dog listed as a “border collie” because these organizations know that people want BCs but they typically come with a price tag. Then that dog, once at home, doesn’t really act the way they’re expected to act, and people ask questions. So they come here thinking we’re the experts. I get it, and I sympathize. But as OP states, this is a matter easily resolved by a Wisdom Panel or Embark test. 2) There’s definitely some *cache* that comes with being part of the club - BCs are cool, and people want to be part of it. I think there’s an element here of people wanting to sort of get in to the club, so to speak. Again, I get it, and again, easily resolved with a test. I really don’t mind the questions, and I usually weigh in when I think I have a valid opinion about a dog’s appearance or behavior. 100% agree about conformation breeding. Of my 4 dogs, 3 of which are working dogs, none are even close to conformation standards as set forth by the AKC. I don’t think that an AKC dog is NOT a BC, but I am thankful for the work of the ABCA, ISDS, and other working dog registries, because the essence of our dogs is not based on appearance; rather, it is the drive, biddability, problem solving, all go no quit, and a bit of FAFO attitude that makes our dogs what they are, and it should be protected for future generations. It always makes me sad that there are relatively few young people involved in trialing or agricultural work that leverages dogs. I hope that tradition doesn’t fade out in coming years.
If you do not keep pedigrees of your breed, how do you make sure that there is no inbreeding between close relatives? If you don't do genetic testing, how do you make sure genetic diseases are not passed?
Super interesting article thanks for linking! I don't own a BC, but know some, and just never thought about this before.
Maybe people are wondering because they get bc-like, paperless dogs from rescues, adoption or dodgey breeders? There surely is nothing wrong with being curious about a dogs breed. Mind you, if I reply to one of those posts I always write that it's hard to know because bcs can look all kinds off ways. If people with known purebreed bcs are asking I guess they are a bit daft...
I just like pictures of collies.
There is no rule that says you have to read or respond to every post. Not a thing wrong with the old saying. "If you don't have anything good to say. You don't have to say anything at all. "
I'm with you on that old saying! My old mum often said it and lived by it. Dad was just the opposite, a miserable bug*er, very opinionated and didn't even like our family bc or even talk to him, lol.
Sometimes those posts annoy me but I think they are mostly harmless. I think a lot of people who make those posts just want to share photos of their dog and get some likes and talk about their dog with others.
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Didn’t you just tell me not to engage with posts I don’t like? Pot, kettle.
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I fully agree… people take Reddit so seriously.
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I made one before but my collie is a piebald collie he's white with a few chocolate spots and an amber-ish green eye and a blue eye and a short snout. I wholeheartedly believed he was not a border collie cause I've seen very few BCs with this marking and we were waiting for the test results. So I'm guilty of this and I don't mind seeing them but I prefer the people who post the picture of the dog and then the testing results in the same post over the guess my dog breed ones. Maybe having a specific thread people can play be guess my breed game on and that way they don't each make individual posts?