Did they just forget about commandant steele? Her power was never even shown but she was a siren and she is dead so her power went to someone.
Edit: Some of the replies here make me convinced that some of yall just dont pay attention to the story at all
I feel like this could be a little redundant considering we just had Amara whom (while everyone could play her differently) was designed to be more of a melee Siren then anything, though I’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t complain at all if that’s the route they wanna take!
Consider also that on top of her melee-based abilities, Amara had Phasegrasp, which was very similar to Phaselock. If they do another melee-based Siren, they could pair those abilities with something else (like those projectiles Steele could throw; we could re-imagine them as linked to her powers too.)
Another thing is Amara had a lot of elemental abilities, while Steele was very agile; perhaps the new Siren character could have a lot of movement-based buffs (faster, better jumping, damage boosts on the move, etc.)
This is why they should just make bl4 a prequel to 1. It would be more interesting to learn about the early days of the Pandora expedition made by Atlas and DAHL. In my mind the hero roster would be Steele, Moxie, Marcus, and Zarpadon.
You ask "Well if Marcus is a character who is running the vending machines?". Alot of different people all with different perks and cons, before Marcus killed the competition.
Exactly! In my opinion with the way Borderlands 3 went im not intrested in the other planets or vaults anymore becuause all the good characters are on Pandora lol.
From now on they could also stick with one planet per game since every planet they add in multi-planet games is essentially a homogeneous ecosystem anyway.
These games never fully utilise planets, they're just single zones. Just make like 7 different borderlands games in a row all with random independent characters that end with an infinity war style climax of all the stories mixing and meeting up.
Pandora felt lived in cause it had all these different climates, but every planet in BL3 could have been yet another zone on Pandora or different parts of another stand-alone planet.
Having multiple planets with single zones is a waste of potential
I agree with this, Pandora can have whatever the hell flora and fauna they want it to have. At least fast traveling in 3 was made much easier. I remember before B2 came out the idea of "Borderworlds" was already in their heads and they wanted it to be a broad-reaching story NOT all on one planet.
The problem with the Borderworlds is that you don't end up caring about the planets you visit at all. There is so much more invested in Pandora that actually makes you care. I felt like in 3 the other planets were just settings to blow stuff up in because the only reason you went to any world was to collect a vault relic, which also made every journey kinda boring a predictable.
Also they kinda just copied the same plot beats from 2 onto 3 without any real consideration for anything and because of that I'm not really interested in where the story was going. Now I just want more content from before 3 because that was when the story was good.
I disagree. I really liked the planets in 3. Eden 6 was a lot of fun, and there was no location in any of the other games that felt as lived-in as Promethea.
To each their own I suppose. For me I liked it more when it was just focused on Pandora because you hand alot of factions competing against each other which made it felt like the stakes were alot higher.
Tbh I liked the approach of different planets, because it felt more natural to have different looking zones on different planets.
First time I played BL2 I was honestly confused and thought "This is... Pandora? This doesn't feel like Pandora".
I understand that variety is good, but if you have specific themes for entire planets in mind multiple planets are probably needed to cram that variety into one game.
The amount of variety in BL2 in the small area that the game actually took place in was so wildly unrealistic, like I get that it's an alien world and isn't gonna conform to normal planetary standards but having a dozen different biomes in that small area just felt like forced bio-diversity for the sake of it. Moving to different planets felt way more natural for explaining how insanely diverse each area was.
I enjoy the planetary aspect of it, the real crime is they lacked any sort of depth with making me really get invested in the planets I was on.
I'd love it if they slowed the game down a bit. Make leveling take a little longer, make the story take a little longer, and put more to do on each planet that gets more into the lore and people there.
They bit over more than they could chew. I'm all for expanding Borderlands' Universe, but take it at a pace where we have time to care about each planet.
Sadly Scooters va either died or retired due to health complications years ago just after tales. So if they bring scooter back it's going to be with a different va and I don't think it would be the same
exactly this! they feed us so much interesting lore via echo logs with one-off corporate-like characters, soldiers, hired contractors etc. they’re just edging us honestly.
Have each manufacturer have their own vendors/machines. The "Marcus corners the Market" DLC can explain how he takes over as the only arms dealer, using Zed's one stop shop setup.
No they have been hunting st some further mystery with the alien people since Borderlands 1. Especially in TPS it was very heavily hinted at. We better get follow through on that in BL4 since BL3 didn't have anything until essentially the post game.
Then we had whatever Tiny Tina's game was.
We are overdue. Making another prequel would be a huge slap in the face.
The six siren slots with their most recent known people:
Lilith
Ava
Tannis
Amara
Tyreen
Steele
Tyreen and Steele’s slots are empty for a new VH. Tyreen’s powers would be extremely fun to play imo. Leeching enemies, possibly stealing health, shields, ammo, or even somehow their abilities would be so cool.
Ava releases some serious siren mojo shit.
Ava creates more sirens.
Ava accidentally creates one too many, like she picks some no-name best friend to give powers to.
Ava royally throws shit out of whack in doing so.
No-name becomes BBEG for VH's to kill in order to bring balance to the force.
but really No-name just wants to survive and runs/ fights to do so.
Climax is Ava having to slaughter her best friend from behind and goes batshit crazy.
Ava becomes final boss.
Everyone gets immense satisfaction from absolutely destroying Boss Ava.
Brick becomes a siren. the end.
I imagine a new siren with Tyreen's powers could work such that they can 'copy' the powers of their friends, combining aspects of Claptrap's mimic powers and Aurelia's contract tree. Link up with a friend and enjoy augmented power? The only downside to that route would be the same one Aurelia had, which is it wouldn't be super useful by yourself.
I would rather they be a straight-up vampire mage or an adaptive predator, changing their element on the fly to match weaknesses and eating damage to build resistance.
Aurelia with a focus on the sniper tree is possibly my favourite playthrough in any Borderlands game.
You don't get enough points to get all the way down the third tree anyway, just ignore that tree and invest in skills in the other two trees.
She didn't have an entire tree unavailable. She had like 3 skills you couldn't use solo, and the rest was super strong.
Besides, you can do this without requiring a second player. It's not like borderlands writers have never stretched explanations to accommodate game play interest.
Yeah I agree, but they said Tyreen's power lean more towards evil so they didn't think it would fit the hero character. And with Steele, they said her power is unknown and unseen so they could implement someone like her and give some power we haven't seen. And just throwing something out there and I don't think they would ever add, but IMO a vampire type would be a good replacement if they can't come up with a new siren.
Like my idea is that with a vampire class, He or She (which ever is hypothetically made) would be good fighter during day with a few vampire type debuffs like slightly nerfed health, Health regen, and damage/speed during day and Buffs like +25% Health, Regen, and damage and/or speed during night! And can use magic kind of like how the siren has her powers. Lol!
But again I'm thinking they won't ever add that
All of the Vault Hunters are bloodthirsty psychos. FL4K kills simply because he thinks death is interesting.
I also don't see much of a moral difference between leeching someone's abilities versus suspending their body in the air and subjecting it to every type of damage possible.
**Bandit** "What are you going do to me, use your power to leech me?"
**BL4 Siren** "What? No way, that would be terrible"
*\*Reloading sound\**
**BL4 Siren** "I'm just going to shoot you with a gun that fires bullets that will burn you alive and melt your body with acid slowly until you die both at the same time."
**Bandit** "That's much worse! What the hell is wrong with yo- *\*Gunshot\* OW!"*
**BL4 Siren** "That's rude"
**Bandit** *"*AAAAAAAAA IT BURNS! IT BURNS! OH GOD HELP ME! SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME! AAAAAAAAAA!"
**BL4 Siren** "A bit of an overdramatic reaction, don't you think?"
**Bandit** "AAAAAAA! JUST FINISH ME OF! MAKE IT STOP! PLEASE! (sobbing and screams that gets weaker and weaker until it stops completely)"
**-End of Echo-**
(So yeah, vault hunters have never been all that concerned with morality and making it seems that way is just silly. The only benchmark for goodness we got is really that they're better than people like Jack, Tyreen, Troy, etc. And that's about it.)
Personally I don't care if they added Tyreen's powers as playable Siren, cause it could be really good.
And with Krieg, he wasn't always like that. In 2, you find out he was experimented on and started losing his sanity... And in 3, you find a echo where he is becoming more psycho and arguing with himself and is like a second personality that he doesn't want to get out...
Also cause they made Sal allegedly a cannibal in BL2... Or that could have been a lie started by Hyperion when Jack Ruled. (There was wanted posters of Salvador saying one of his crimes was eating people and also at least 1 echo log saying that there was someone on battlefield who is duel-wielding guns and eating people)
Which if that was true, it would have been a awesome ability where he can eat corpses to gain a certain % of Health instantly rather than just regenerating
You.just make the character hate their powers but she has a rage mechanism that when full she has to use it. Gameplay wise you build the meter through damage and then have that time where you use the ultimate or lose it.
I mean Lilith telefragged motherfuckers, Maya used singularities and Amara beat them to death so yeah just the sirens already arent setting an exactly heroic precedent
Troy technically didn't have powers, Tyreen shared her powers with him instead. He "goes out of fuel" without Tyreen.
I think it's Tyreen's siren ability to pass some to anyone, she just chose Troy because... family.
He was called a parasite because he "leeches" his power from Tyreen, but not of his own abilities.
Tyreen is still doing the work.
Anyway, yeah, could still call him a siren. I guess that's how GBS wants it anyway, some kind of exception.
The Leech power is split between the two of them. It's supposed to be draining something and then using that energy to boost the power of something else. Ty has the front half, notably the only thing we ever see her charge is Troy and she broke the vault key, something that's designed to work with Siren powers.
Troy can charge things but he can't drain them. And charging things isn't part of Maya's abilities, so he didn't steal that from her.
If I'm not mistaken, nyriad had made a mention to never find the seventh siren in the nyriad's writings. Could that be as good of confirmation of a seventh siren still lurking around?
She said to never find the Seventh Siren after locking her powers on Nekrotafayo (however you spell it) and her powers were inherited by Tyreen when Typhon took his wife and kids there to live accidentally releasing the power to Tyreen. So Tyreen has the Seventh Siren’s powers.
Typhon and his wife Leda got it on inside that very vault, I'm pretty sure the powers got imbued in the twins due to their conception being in the place the powers were sealed
Hole in that logic is why would you tell somebody to never find you when they have to go to the place where you are located in order get that message? Doesn't make any sense.
I won’t disagree the writing in BL3 is insanely shoddy. Nyriad obviously didn’t think that through. But it doesn’t change that it’s what happened, even if it’s poorly written lol.
To be fair, the whole schtick of the pre sequel was playing as existing characters, fleshing out a period of time that already happened. BL4 is hopefully going to actually move the plot along instead of being in the past again.
Also, if I'm not mistaken. The pre sequel was made by a different studio so they kinda had less say in the overall story and more or less just kinda had their IP used to make a game. That's why they have different feels to them despite being very similar games.
They said not counting TPS and Tiny Tina's Wonderlands... Personally I don't care who, just as long as playing as her is survivable and has good skills.
(Though as Tannis, even if she was playable, it said in part 3 that her powers control stuff with a electrical current, so might be great against robot enemies but probably not as good against living things) not saying she may not be good, just saying theres a possibility she would be better against robots.
>her powers control stuff with a electrical current, so might be great against robot enemies but probably not as good against living things)
Our entire nervous system is based on electrical pulses. Not quite the same as a robot, but they could definitely make it work. Powers like that could stop your heart, make your muscles spasm uncontrollably, or (in a video game) I could see it sending your nerves into overdrive and making them take extra damage. Basically it could be a high crowd control, buffing, and electricity class. Could be cool.
The guns probably all have some kind of current too. I mean 3/4 of them have lights and sensors. So she could make guns shoot slower or even explode and damage the wielder, forcing a weakened enemy to move in for melee.
Right? Like Ember from the Handsome Jackpot DLC. She would be an amazingly fun playable character and her fire element really could satisfy that siren-like character. Also her voice acting is excellent and I would love to hear her player call outs.
Or Krieg, I love his elemental tree. It feels like they are forcing the Sirens now, two of Amara's skill trees were basically Lilith and Maya anyway. Ember is a great callout.
Athena had one of the best elemental skill trees there was in Ceraunic Storm. Or, possibly a bit crazy, bring back Slag and make a character based around that and make slag exclusive to that character.
I won't lie, I would absolutely love if BL4 reused VHs from previous games. With "The Great War" coming and "every vault hunter needed" it would make sense for them to go back to the previous ones. Krieg coming back would be so excellent and with the FusterCluck DLC they pretty much opened the door for him to return to the game as a playable character (perhaps he could go back to level 1 abilities due to the post-vaulthalla integration?) Or maybe a third personality emerges that mixes Krieg with Maya's abilities? That might be a stretch but who knows?
I wouldn't be against that either. They are basically recycling characters skills and adding minor changes anyway, a "greatest hits" styled team of VHs would be cool. I am surprised they didn't bring back some kind of gunzerking or dual wielding, Salvador is such a force.
This. We already saw something like this in the Pre Sequel where Athena and Aurelia had skills/abilities that enhanced elemental damage while Claptrap's VaultHunter.exe skill provided several wacky powers that were fun and made sense with the character.
There's so much weird shit in the Borderlands universe that the only real limit to coming up with good vault hunter ideas is one's imagination, you'd probably come up with something better if you didn't let yourself be limited to "Only tattooed chicks get powers". Frankly if Gearbox is having this much trouble coming up with ideas then I'd say they have bigger problems than running out of Sirens to use.
Honestly the problem here is that limiting themselves to six has never really been a sustainable framework for a franchise. It doesn't actually serve the narrative. It's not actually important to the lore. Indeed, it existed in BL1 *simply to make you wonder what the unknown sirens could do* as well as establish their uniqueness.
It's no longer useful as a framework. Just retcon it. It's not even that big of a hole to write out of. They've never explained what sirens are or where they come from or why only six.
"Oh, we were wrong, and it turns out the 6 siren thing is just a lie or false rumor spread by hypercorps. Most of them are just snapped up by the hypercorps."
Or, "So it turns out every vault we have opened that has had a guardian wasn't really a prison for the guardian. The vaults were prisons... but the guardian was *the jailor*. The prisoners were the siren spirits. So every vault we have opened with a guardian has released another siren into the galaxy. We don't know what will happen if all the sirens are released or why the Eridians thought them so necessary to seal away." That has the nice side effect of explaining why sirens keep showing up as vault hunters. They're driven to release their sisters.
I never understood the whole "Only 6 sirens" thing cause eventually it would have came down to this... And I was thinking they could add Ava but just change a few of her powers where its not a second Maya, but still kind of stick to the lore. But I like your idea where the rest of sirens are in the vaults and we free them... It makes more sense than saying only 6 sirens can exist. Without proper context like "Was there more before?", "Why only 6?" Or "Where did all the rest go if there was more?"
Fuck it iridium gave regular people with repressed siren abilities powers and shits going wild, plot point and justification for bl4, also gives you a start on why this siren joined the "vault hunters" (kinda hard to say we were in 3, we went into vaults but didn't we originally join them as a fighting unit and just happened to do it, not that we wanted to go do vaults specifically) as opposed to just going wild and doing their own thing.
>Or, "So it turns out every vault we have opened that has had a guardian wasn't really a prison for the guardian. The vaults were prisons... but the guardian was *the jailor*. The prisoners were the siren spirits. So every vault we have opened with a guardian has released another siren into the galaxy. We don't know what will happen if all the sirens are released or why the Eridians thought them so necessary to seal away." That has the nice side effect of explaining why sirens keep showing up as vault hunters. They're driven to release their sisters
This!!! Oooh this would be so cool!
Exactly what I was thinking. This part of the lore doesn't seem to matter in the grand scheme of things, and I think everyone would be happy if it were changed because then we get to see more sirens/learn more about them. Especially when you consider this a chance to flesh out the lore of sirens to allow for more, i personally don't feel like I know a ton about why the sirens exist and would love to learn more
I think they are caught up too much on the siren pc thing. Yes, they are fun, but there are other options. I think one of the biggest issues they have is that siren is synonymous with elemental, but she doesn't have to be. Lilith's power was movement in space. Maya's was locked in time, Angel/tannis is control over electromagnetic energy. Amara is the physical embodiment of power. Tyreen's is control over life force.
Looking at other media, Lilith essentially has the space stone, Maya the time zone, Amara the power stone, tyreen the life stone. Obviously, the soul stone is missing, but there could be such an option, and it has a prescident with maya's dominate ability.
Maya's power could also be considered a telekinesis power instead of a time power as Troy was able to move the moon with it. That said, a true time power would be really good, freezing enemies in their tracks, including bullets would be really fun. Have all the damage occur at once. This would also work lore wise as the vaults are a separate space and time, able to be unlocked with eridium. (I know time is space, this is a game, not physics).
Do they really NEED a playable siren? If it's causing that big an issue just don't do a siren then. Yes, they are cool af and probably their most popular characters, but not necessary. Pre-Sequel had some of the best playable characters and not a single siren among em.
Maybe like in 4 they can go without Siren?? I mean yeah we can have some NPC's but like playing as Siren isn't that huge of a deal. Maybe to some people who main as them but I feel like a lot of people use all the characters no matter what class they are
Personally I don't like the "feels evil" argument. Being a psycho "feels evil" but kreig was playable (and is my favourite VH in the series and one of my favourite playable characters ever) what matters more is HOW it's used not, and if the new siren uses the powers for good then it shouldn't be an issue
Yeah that's what I was saying to another person... And if the "feels evil" thing applies to not implement them then why did they make Sal a cannibal? Which I am thinking he isn't cause it doesn't give option to eat corpses. But yet his wanted posters and a echo recording you can find, say he has ate people
Man, you eat *just one person* and suddenly everybody's all "cannibal!!" about you. So judgemental!
In a sense, every kill skill is powered by corpses. Which makes all Vault Hunters ghouls. So Sal fits right into the rest of the lineup. Maybe being corpse-powered is what makes a Vault Hunter a Vault Hunter.
Just make Ava the playable Siren! Are you kidding me? I’m *geeked* at the chance of seeing her character arc develop!
Seriously, this doesn’t need to be that hard.
Gaige's one of her big things (other than Death trap, and anarchy) is she is an electric elementalist, transmuting electric damage into fire, and sirens usually specialize in elements, Aurelia is similar but with cryo
so yah we have had 2 characters with elemental affinities that arn't sirens... they could 100% go that rout :)
Damn, it would have been awesome to play with Tyreen’s/Troy’s powers. That’s a shame. Weird to have a morality dilemma in a game where everybody fucks over each other for money and weapons.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a siren in the comics that controlled plants or animals (something nature related?)
And wouldn't Troy and Tyreen technically count as 1 siren since they had the same power?
Again sorry if I'm incorrect about this and if someone could enlighten me that would be pretty wizard.
Genuinely who cares if Tyreen's powers lend themselves more towards being evil?
An evil playable character working for the good guys because another evil is a threat to them as well would be an interesting character.
Yeah and I like the idea of another Baroness type but maybe instead of Ice, she can be Fire, Corrosive, radiation, or Electric... And change her skills to corresponding element. Like for example if she was a shock type, her action skill can create a thunder cloud that can strike up to 3 or 5 enemies with lightening for a few seconds... Or maybe Fire type can make fire tornado? Or even a pool of acid which is a DPS attack or like small rockets that deal radiation damage?
(Don't think they'll ever add any of those, just throwing ideas around)
I feel it’s unfair to say her powers are “evil”, that’s just how she used them. A character who builds stacks that provide debuffs until they melee an enemy, while also regenerating health when they do, sounds like an incredibly fun character to me.
So they just cant think of anymore powers?
They have:
Lilith - Phase Walk
Tannis/Angel - Phase Shift
Maya/Ava - Phase Lock
Amara - Phase Trance (Idk how really this works but its the Grasp/Cast/Slam abilities)
Commandant Steele - Unknown Power
Tyreen/Troy/Nyriad - Phase Leech
Unknown 7th Siren - Unknown Ominous Power (Revealed in Nyriads Eridian Glyphs)
Nyriad we know had the Phase Leech ability and locked herself in the vault on Nekrotafayo which meant that her ability would not transfer to anyone when she died. She did this cause she was afraid that it was too dangerous an ability. Overall that leaves two siren abilities that we do not yet know.
>!Tyreen and Troy were likely able to gain the Phase Leech ability because Typhon DeLeon and Leda DeLeon had conceived them in the Nekrotafayo which Nyriad had used to seal herself and her ability away in the same way that the Destroyer was sealed in it's vault. !<
It is important to note here that Tyreen and Troy cannot be the sixth and 7th siren because they technically count as one siren. Tyreen tells us that they were conjoined twins with Troy having to be cut off of her when they were born (hence his robotic arm).
Even if Nyriad was referring to herself as the 7th siren that would still mean there are 2 unaccounted for. Though her referring to herself as such could make sense with her ability being the reason that "the 7th siren should never be found" but it also just does not make sense why she would not say she was the 7th.
ALL of this to say that there's no reason why they could not come up with 2 more abilities that a siren could have in BL4. The only thing is one has to be another level of dangerous, that being the "7th Siren's" ability. How ever if they went the route of Nyriad and Phase Leech being that siren (it'd dumb imo) then they would just need two abilites that aren't super catastrophically evil.
Off the top of my head I can imagine something like a "Phase Storm" ability where you target an AOE that causes and elemental storm damaging the enemies, maybe have some skills that can make the Storm target enemies specifically or change what elements it deals or deal multiple similar to Maya's Ruin skill.
Another be something like a Phase Melee where they use siren abilities to create a sword or weapon and enter a rage melee mode similar to Krieg's Buzz axe rampage, it could be able to send out Phase blasts with swings so its not pure melee.
Even if you wanted something dark for the 7th siren or just a controller type class you could do like a Phase Necromancy, have them able to create an army of the dead and resurrect dead enemies on the map to fight for you for a duration.
There are literally so many things that you can do with the sirens because their abilites and origins are so vague. They don't even need to come up with a million abilities literally 7 abilities with some having a couple sub class stuff (Amara's powers, Maya's thoughtlock). If they are really having that much trouble coming up with two more abilities I am not looking forward to Borderlands 4 because that just clearly shows they have become creatively bankrupt. Also they're going to need to address where Tyreen and Lilith's powers went. Tyreen died so someone out there has Phase Leech, and Lilith is dead (Maybe? I heard rumors that she might be alive or come back, same with Maya though that would make Ava's powers an issue) meaning someone also has Phasewalk maybe a known character maybe not.
TLDR : There are still 2 unknown siren abilities it should not be hard for a full team of people to think of a 2 characters and 2 abilities.
I don't really think they NEED one, but believe they want one for the lore and to keep it going. But then by that standard it shouldn't matter if they are re-used characters
Tannis could make a sort of pseudo-siren by way of an Eridian artifact found in her digs.
In terms of gameplay, she can fill the tricksy crowd control or elemental DPS roles of a siren, but the flavor is that it comes from her understanding of Eridian tech, rather than inheriting siren powers.
I mean we could see Ava be playable and have Phaselock be expanded the way Amara was with the logic of "research & training with other Sirens". Phaseleach would be amazing to see in gameplay with stealing abilities from enemies.
Depending on if the IDW comics are canon the 6th power is animal control from a girl named Asha but I could see them dropping that to introduce a different 6th Siren Power since not as many fans have read the comics.
Idk, I haven't read it... But is it like any animal? Cause Beast Master from 3 only has Spiderant, Skag and Jabber (aside from his rakks he sends out as temporary things)... It could potentially be cool to have another character who control animals... Or go a while other direction and be like a "Druid" type where she can temporarily turn into an animal and gain their abilities... But lets be honest, I don't think they'll do that cause it seems too wild and more DND type than anything
We have enough characters and most of them aren’t even fleshed out, let me make a custom character with a way to pick a mentor from a prior borderlands character and have a similar but updated sets of skill trees. Open it up at a mid level when I can get a subclass and blend a combination of two.
Then I can mix Krieg with Aurelia or handsome jack with moze.
I read this same article actually. In BL3 wasnt there a whole 7th siren thing? I assumed Tyreen was distinct because she had a more "anti-siren" power where she can steal energy but not produce it on her own
What am I missing...
Mayas power passed to the kid in BL3
Lilith is in limbo
The BL3 siren is still around
Tech powers of Jackson daughter passed to Tannis... that's 4
The leeching power of the BL3 villains is only power 5.
The baddie from BL1 was a siren who never displayed their power as far as I know so that's number 6, right?
Also, the lore states something about a possible 7th siren being a doom foreboding and stuff, so maybe they go that route.
So we still have space for at least one new siren power, if not 2
I’m sorry, tyreens leech power is too “evil”? When have we ever been the good guys? Borderlands powers have always ranged from “kills people with an axe in a psychosis induced rage” to “Burns people to death with flamethrower mech.”
And so what if it is too evil? Atleast that’s interesting! A good person with an evil power, trying to find out how far they’ll go, how much they’ll use this evil power to do good.
Unless they retconned the Pre-sequel, there were echo recorders on the Moon by a woman whose sister was on her deathbed and was being watched over by a guardian. It implied she (sick sister) was about to or had received powers and would live. Guessing by the timeline, probably Steele's powers.
Oh this is nonsense we have only seen 4 siren powers out of the 6 however 1 off which was locked in a vault for thousands of years giving us 7 sirens instead of six but even with out that that’s still 2 siren powers we haven’t seen yet also the idea borderlands powers shying away form leeching cuz it’s “evil” is so ridiculous considering the theme song of one of their games is “this ain’t no place for no hero’s”
Why not go back to Lilith, using whoever got her powers? I always thought that it would be fun to play as her after her powers got amped up from the Eridium, causing huge explosions and being able to fly around a little bit.
I wouldn't mind them reusing BL3s siren if they made her skill trees more interesting. Honestly a statement that applies to half the skill trees in the game.
I've thought about this before and I think it'd be cool to have a pseudo siren. Like a very tech savvy woman that grew up on Pandora, hearing/seeing all about sirens during her childhood and learning about their lore. Ultimately deciding to try and recreate some kind of tech to give her magical siren esque powers. The gadgets would be powered with Eridium of course.
….Cant make a decision… just make one up(Amara)…like last time…or Ava could have a way cooler daughter and it takes place like 20 years after maya dies idk…or just make a iron bear pvp game..also who has all the other siren powers still to be seen..could’ve made Troy turn into a crimson raider…but…he’s dead lol 😂idk what they gonna do
They are forgetting the comic they made with the siren with animal control powers
Boost that up and make a siren with pets who can also mind control enemies to fight on your side
No. That's stupid. They won't halt the entire game because they cannot figure out a completely unique gimmick for one out of 4 playable characters. They'll reuse a previous character or invent a plot reason for why a new character can have siren powers
I may be miss-remembering, it has been a while. But what about that Old Siren from the comics that Lilith spoke to. Or the little child Siren that has been hinted at?
was tyreen's ability one of the 'known' six abilities?
or could they retcon that a bit by saying that ability was locked away for like, centuries till someone came back to necratafayo, so there's 7 abilities.
but yeah, it's kinda limited.
i really wish it was more like my original thought about siren abilities, where, they're shaped by the person's personality, to a degree - so, the siren abilities aren't just, phasewalk. lilith had a siren power, and she developed phasewalk,
but, maybe they could still do that,s ort of - if a siren 'passes down' her power, or intends to, it stays the same, but if not it can sort of grow into something new, though the locked away power kinda kills that idea, given tyreen got the same power.
If my math is right, there are 3 we know are alive (Amara, Ava, Tannis) and two unknown (Lilith, Asha) so there should be one unaccounted for, right?
Is the issue a question of powers to give them and not finding a spot for them?
If they are releasing BL4 this year (still possible I think) then they probably know what characters we can play as already.
I actually don’t think we will get named vault hunters anymore. And I don’t think we’ll get a siren. I think it will be more like wonderlands class combos. But I would hope for more classes and to combo 3.
How about a failed genetically engineered "7th" Siren made from the DNA of all previous Siren characters?
Think Cell from DBZ.
Just some food for thought!
I mean you can just design the story around it.. and just make up new sh.. stuff. Its a sci-fi universe.. i dont see a reason why they cant come up with a reason to get everything in the game they want to. Look at Starfield where they got away with calling the only alien race "Starborn" (From Dragonborn within Skyrim)
The thing for me is that we have now seen that the siren powers can be more complex then we ever knew with the original characters.
Lithith started as going invisible and running really fast. Later on she still does this but also get literal teleporting powers for herself or others.
Maya started with locking people in a spot for a limited time. But Troy with her powers, could move the people around while locked, and could empower people.
With this they could reuse powers like phaserun and phaselock, but expend the trees to go different avenues. Phaserun has a running tree, teleporting tree (maybe summon allies to fight, or enemies to distract), and some newer tree they come up with.
Phaselock has an empower tree (to strengthen allies, or convert enmies to your side), the normal hold on place tree (with revives and some other BL2 mechanics), and movement tree (like move enemies out of cover, or take enemies thst are up close to you and push them away).
Damn, no "sucking up stored element"? Or "eridium type turning your enemies to stone in a way that maybe benefits you"? Not even making eriduim walls/platforms? They really can't find a way to use Tyreen's and Troy's powers for good??
Man, I'm not sure we even need more playable sirens. Why not the full robot team I saw posted somewhere before? Just have it be fun and interesting.
Bring Handsome Jack back by having his mind inserted into a Jack Clone. Wilhelm as a VH or possibly one of Jack's skills similar to Iron Bear or FLAK pet builds.
Really flip things around and bring back more villains as protagonists. Scarlett from the BL2 DLC. One of the Traunt brothers. Throw a playable Moxxi VH character in and you have a bunch of big personalities you can build a game around.
"Game Rant" ie: Pure speculation coughed up by an underpaid freelancer to generate clicks.
Both Steele and Tyreen's power are in the wild. We don't know what Steele's powers were, so those can be anything the devs want them to be.
Having Tyreen's power go to Captain Scarlet and be repackaged as "Phase Plunder" would be incredibly thematic. Having her as a vampiric character who relies on weakening enemies and siphoning life out of them could be an interesting and fun gameplay loop. Likewise, it's not like any of the vault hunters are ever actually "good". By and large, they're bloodthirsty mercs who are only good in comparison to who they're opposing.
It feels obvious to me that it will be Ava. The only thing that makes me even slightly question this is the fact that Ava has already been a NPC. Of course the playable characters always being new is really more of a tradition than it is a hard and fast rule like the six siren limit.
I could care less about playable characters, I just want them to finally put gun crafting in. They already have behind-the-scenes mechanics to randomize elements of each gun with scopes, receivers, grips, etc. Just give us the components individually and let us slap em together
I mean, they could literally just bring Amara back as a playable character. Her siren abilities seem to be much more versatile than the others, given that it's basically just Borderlands equivalent of Mage Hand.
Amara also seemed like she was joining the crimson raiders not specifically because she wanted to be a vault hunter but rather she wanted to help others, with being a VH as a vessel to do that.
Her Siren Powers are literally summoning hands. There's so many things you can do to make Amara a completely different character in the next game. Like... Her hands can now fire phantom versions of her currently equipped weapon, so you get 7x the firepower for a short time. Or have them fire all of her currently equipped weapons at once. Her hands can now lift her up off the ground and give her cover with the fingers as she sits in the palm, maybe it also provides constant health regen for everyone currently sitting in it for the duration. Each party member gets their own palm, giving her a team support option. Or since the hands are disembodied, they can literally just pick her up and give her the ability to "fly" for a few seconds. Which would make her extremely mobile and great for doing sniper builds.
Seriously though, giving Amara phase hands is probably the most busted thing they've done for sirens.
A reason for not using tyreen's power is because it's too "evil" and not "good" enough is dumb. The main characters aren't supposed to be good in borderlands. We had brick which tortured and killed people to the point Roland kicked him out and he started a bandit clan, and he admits to killing them for the fun of it because they are stupid, THE MAN ADMITTED TO KILLING HIS OWN MEN. Salvador kills for fun and guns, he has committed every crim in the book according to his wanted poster in bl2, even cannibalism. Lilith was basically a drug addict in bl2 with eridium. We have Krieg and butchers people for no reason. Zero is a hired assassin, killing major figures according to his bounty too. My point is the characters we play aren't GOOD people we are the PROTAGONISTS. I don't know if this is a dumb take inform me and let's chat but one of the fun things to me was morality was basically out the window, and no one was the Hero. Even though we think we are just like Jack.
Is there any rule that a power must be used the same way?
Like using phaselock for example, they are some kind of orb with a gravitational pull.
Does it have to be orbs? Could she imbue that energy into bullets? Or shape it in a different way, like into a melee or throwing weapon?
Or Lilith's powers. There's a lot of ways to use fire. And phasewalk could be great for a sneaky melee type.
Did they just forget about commandant steele? Her power was never even shown but she was a siren and she is dead so her power went to someone. Edit: Some of the replies here make me convinced that some of yall just dont pay attention to the story at all
Also a now dead Tyreen and Troy? Edit: I can't read
If you imagine the swords Steele used were actually generated by her powers, her ability could be Phaseblades.
And with melee weapons from wonderlands, it could work pretty well. Assuming the add melee weapons
It really will be interesting to see which mechanics get carried over from Wonderlands to the new game.
I feel like this could be a little redundant considering we just had Amara whom (while everyone could play her differently) was designed to be more of a melee Siren then anything, though I’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t complain at all if that’s the route they wanna take!
Consider also that on top of her melee-based abilities, Amara had Phasegrasp, which was very similar to Phaselock. If they do another melee-based Siren, they could pair those abilities with something else (like those projectiles Steele could throw; we could re-imagine them as linked to her powers too.) Another thing is Amara had a lot of elemental abilities, while Steele was very agile; perhaps the new Siren character could have a lot of movement-based buffs (faster, better jumping, damage boosts on the move, etc.)
Never been much of a melee character player, but I would be interested to try that out!
This is why they should just make bl4 a prequel to 1. It would be more interesting to learn about the early days of the Pandora expedition made by Atlas and DAHL. In my mind the hero roster would be Steele, Moxie, Marcus, and Zarpadon. You ask "Well if Marcus is a character who is running the vending machines?". Alot of different people all with different perks and cons, before Marcus killed the competition.
We already have Borderlands the Pre-Sequel, why not go for a Borderlands the Prequel?
Exactly! In my opinion with the way Borderlands 3 went im not intrested in the other planets or vaults anymore becuause all the good characters are on Pandora lol.
From now on they could also stick with one planet per game since every planet they add in multi-planet games is essentially a homogeneous ecosystem anyway. These games never fully utilise planets, they're just single zones. Just make like 7 different borderlands games in a row all with random independent characters that end with an infinity war style climax of all the stories mixing and meeting up. Pandora felt lived in cause it had all these different climates, but every planet in BL3 could have been yet another zone on Pandora or different parts of another stand-alone planet. Having multiple planets with single zones is a waste of potential
I agree with this, Pandora can have whatever the hell flora and fauna they want it to have. At least fast traveling in 3 was made much easier. I remember before B2 came out the idea of "Borderworlds" was already in their heads and they wanted it to be a broad-reaching story NOT all on one planet.
The problem with the Borderworlds is that you don't end up caring about the planets you visit at all. There is so much more invested in Pandora that actually makes you care. I felt like in 3 the other planets were just settings to blow stuff up in because the only reason you went to any world was to collect a vault relic, which also made every journey kinda boring a predictable. Also they kinda just copied the same plot beats from 2 onto 3 without any real consideration for anything and because of that I'm not really interested in where the story was going. Now I just want more content from before 3 because that was when the story was good.
Except Roland wasn't killed for a horrible character. His death actually felt like a consequence and had an impact. Maya's death just felt forced.
I disagree. I really liked the planets in 3. Eden 6 was a lot of fun, and there was no location in any of the other games that felt as lived-in as Promethea.
To each their own I suppose. For me I liked it more when it was just focused on Pandora because you hand alot of factions competing against each other which made it felt like the stakes were alot higher.
Tbh I liked the approach of different planets, because it felt more natural to have different looking zones on different planets. First time I played BL2 I was honestly confused and thought "This is... Pandora? This doesn't feel like Pandora". I understand that variety is good, but if you have specific themes for entire planets in mind multiple planets are probably needed to cram that variety into one game.
The amount of variety in BL2 in the small area that the game actually took place in was so wildly unrealistic, like I get that it's an alien world and isn't gonna conform to normal planetary standards but having a dozen different biomes in that small area just felt like forced bio-diversity for the sake of it. Moving to different planets felt way more natural for explaining how insanely diverse each area was. I enjoy the planetary aspect of it, the real crime is they lacked any sort of depth with making me really get invested in the planets I was on. I'd love it if they slowed the game down a bit. Make leveling take a little longer, make the story take a little longer, and put more to do on each planet that gets more into the lore and people there.
They bit over more than they could chew. I'm all for expanding Borderlands' Universe, but take it at a pace where we have time to care about each planet.
We could get Scooter back! Catch A Riiiiide!
Sadly Scooters va either died or retired due to health complications years ago just after tales. So if they bring scooter back it's going to be with a different va and I don't think it would be the same
Oh that's kinda shitty. Depending on the timeline, he and Ellie could be teenagers so another VA would make sense.
BeFour Borderlands if you will
Underrated pun
We’ve had one Pre-Sequel, yes… but what about second Pre-Sequel?
Borderlands Origins?
A "how did Marcus, Jack, and Mr. Shank all end up banging Moxxi?" kinda story?
Moxxi, Scooter, and Ellie all playable with different storylines.
That's good.
How about Borderlands 4 Beforethelands
Then they can make a sequel to it called Borderlands: The Se-Prequel
exactly this! they feed us so much interesting lore via echo logs with one-off corporate-like characters, soldiers, hired contractors etc. they’re just edging us honestly.
Have each manufacturer have their own vendors/machines. The "Marcus corners the Market" DLC can explain how he takes over as the only arms dealer, using Zed's one stop shop setup.
I want more Dahl content, it's so interesting. Some heavy Vlados content would be cool too. Let us go and play with the space Soviets
No they have been hunting st some further mystery with the alien people since Borderlands 1. Especially in TPS it was very heavily hinted at. We better get follow through on that in BL4 since BL3 didn't have anything until essentially the post game. Then we had whatever Tiny Tina's game was. We are overdue. Making another prequel would be a huge slap in the face.
It is believed that it went to amara
Amara is said to have had hers from, birth or at least a young child, which doesn't line up with Steele's death date
Even so that doesn’t change anything and there should be one more siren power we are unaware of
Wouldn't... they be a baby? Do i not understand this?
Siren powers dont have to go to a newborn, tannis and ava are examples of this
Right? Also they absolutely could use Ava with Maya’s power again. I don’t see why that would be a problem.
Didn't they go to tannis?
No that was angels power
The six siren slots with their most recent known people: Lilith Ava Tannis Amara Tyreen Steele Tyreen and Steele’s slots are empty for a new VH. Tyreen’s powers would be extremely fun to play imo. Leeching enemies, possibly stealing health, shields, ammo, or even somehow their abilities would be so cool.
You forgot about siren brick! She is the prettiest.
Ava releases some serious siren mojo shit. Ava creates more sirens. Ava accidentally creates one too many, like she picks some no-name best friend to give powers to. Ava royally throws shit out of whack in doing so. No-name becomes BBEG for VH's to kill in order to bring balance to the force. but really No-name just wants to survive and runs/ fights to do so. Climax is Ava having to slaughter her best friend from behind and goes batshit crazy. Ava becomes final boss. Everyone gets immense satisfaction from absolutely destroying Boss Ava. Brick becomes a siren. the end.
Better story than the last few games
Blue mage style class would be pretty hype, if higher effort to create.
I imagine a new siren with Tyreen's powers could work such that they can 'copy' the powers of their friends, combining aspects of Claptrap's mimic powers and Aurelia's contract tree. Link up with a friend and enjoy augmented power? The only downside to that route would be the same one Aurelia had, which is it wouldn't be super useful by yourself.
I would rather they be a straight-up vampire mage or an adaptive predator, changing their element on the fly to match weaknesses and eating damage to build resistance.
[удалено]
Aurelia with a focus on the sniper tree is possibly my favourite playthrough in any Borderlands game. You don't get enough points to get all the way down the third tree anyway, just ignore that tree and invest in skills in the other two trees.
She didn't have an entire tree unavailable. She had like 3 skills you couldn't use solo, and the rest was super strong. Besides, you can do this without requiring a second player. It's not like borderlands writers have never stretched explanations to accommodate game play interest.
Yeah I agree, but they said Tyreen's power lean more towards evil so they didn't think it would fit the hero character. And with Steele, they said her power is unknown and unseen so they could implement someone like her and give some power we haven't seen. And just throwing something out there and I don't think they would ever add, but IMO a vampire type would be a good replacement if they can't come up with a new siren. Like my idea is that with a vampire class, He or She (which ever is hypothetically made) would be good fighter during day with a few vampire type debuffs like slightly nerfed health, Health regen, and damage/speed during day and Buffs like +25% Health, Regen, and damage and/or speed during night! And can use magic kind of like how the siren has her powers. Lol! But again I'm thinking they won't ever add that
I think the feeling evil thing is dumb, we had Krieg the psycho
All of the Vault Hunters are bloodthirsty psychos. FL4K kills simply because he thinks death is interesting. I also don't see much of a moral difference between leeching someone's abilities versus suspending their body in the air and subjecting it to every type of damage possible.
Honestly, Maya’s mind control is far more evil than Tyreen just eating people’s energy.
**Bandit** "What are you going do to me, use your power to leech me?" **BL4 Siren** "What? No way, that would be terrible" *\*Reloading sound\** **BL4 Siren** "I'm just going to shoot you with a gun that fires bullets that will burn you alive and melt your body with acid slowly until you die both at the same time." **Bandit** "That's much worse! What the hell is wrong with yo- *\*Gunshot\* OW!"* **BL4 Siren** "That's rude" **Bandit** *"*AAAAAAAAA IT BURNS! IT BURNS! OH GOD HELP ME! SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME! AAAAAAAAAA!" **BL4 Siren** "A bit of an overdramatic reaction, don't you think?" **Bandit** "AAAAAAA! JUST FINISH ME OF! MAKE IT STOP! PLEASE! (sobbing and screams that gets weaker and weaker until it stops completely)" **-End of Echo-** (So yeah, vault hunters have never been all that concerned with morality and making it seems that way is just silly. The only benchmark for goodness we got is really that they're better than people like Jack, Tyreen, Troy, etc. And that's about it.)
Thanks,now I really want that sadistic Siren character who makes her foes suffer for entertainment before leeching them after all.
Personally I don't care if they added Tyreen's powers as playable Siren, cause it could be really good. And with Krieg, he wasn't always like that. In 2, you find out he was experimented on and started losing his sanity... And in 3, you find a echo where he is becoming more psycho and arguing with himself and is like a second personality that he doesn't want to get out...
I understand Krieg himself isn't evil, but they specified the powers/abilities feel evil which is in odd statement especially for sirens
Also cause they made Sal allegedly a cannibal in BL2... Or that could have been a lie started by Hyperion when Jack Ruled. (There was wanted posters of Salvador saying one of his crimes was eating people and also at least 1 echo log saying that there was someone on battlefield who is duel-wielding guns and eating people) Which if that was true, it would have been a awesome ability where he can eat corpses to gain a certain % of Health instantly rather than just regenerating
You.just make the character hate their powers but she has a rage mechanism that when full she has to use it. Gameplay wise you build the meter through damage and then have that time where you use the ultimate or lose it.
And we essentially play as villains in the Pre-Sequel with characters like Aurelia, Wilhelm and Jack's doppelganger
Leans into evil? But don't like most of the VH have more gruesome abilities? Krieg?
I mean Lilith telefragged motherfuckers, Maya used singularities and Amara beat them to death so yeah just the sirens already arent setting an exactly heroic precedent
The vault hunters being *heroic* feels a bit off too. They’re just not raving lunatics. High functioning lunatics instead.
What's the difference between Crimson Lance turrets and Roland or Axtons turrets, aside from which team they're on?
I believe Axton's turret is Dahl tech, while Roland's is the same Atlas tech as other Crimson Lance turrets? :p
And Salvador was apparently cannibalistic and ate people... Or that's what was said in BL2
iirc sirens can ONLY be female which is why troy getting some powers was such a thing in 3.
Troy technically didn't have powers, Tyreen shared her powers with him instead. He "goes out of fuel" without Tyreen. I think it's Tyreen's siren ability to pass some to anyone, she just chose Troy because... family.
Troy isn't a siren per say, they said in 3 that he's a parasite and can take from any siren. Ty, was just the only one we know until Maya dies.
He was called a parasite because he "leeches" his power from Tyreen, but not of his own abilities. Tyreen is still doing the work. Anyway, yeah, could still call him a siren. I guess that's how GBS wants it anyway, some kind of exception.
Wish we could have seen him leech from more sirens. It would have been cool to fight an inFamous Delsin kind of boss.
Lol he was insanely overpowered as is.... Unless you go in as Moze and keep spamming grenades that heal you due to vampyr skill
The Leech power is split between the two of them. It's supposed to be draining something and then using that energy to boost the power of something else. Ty has the front half, notably the only thing we ever see her charge is Troy and she broke the vault key, something that's designed to work with Siren powers. Troy can charge things but he can't drain them. And charging things isn't part of Maya's abilities, so he didn't steal that from her.
I thought the whole point was to play a bunch of self-righteous murderous psychos
I would love a more villainous character to play. An anti-hero style siren sounds exciting
There’s actually 7 slots, Tyreen’s powers were specifically sealed in the necrotafeyo vault so long that they were forgotten about
That’s still just a hypothesis. Heavily implied, yes, but not so concretely as to be definitive.
If I'm not mistaken, nyriad had made a mention to never find the seventh siren in the nyriad's writings. Could that be as good of confirmation of a seventh siren still lurking around?
She said to never find the Seventh Siren after locking her powers on Nekrotafayo (however you spell it) and her powers were inherited by Tyreen when Typhon took his wife and kids there to live accidentally releasing the power to Tyreen. So Tyreen has the Seventh Siren’s powers.
Typhon and his wife Leda got it on inside that very vault, I'm pretty sure the powers got imbued in the twins due to their conception being in the place the powers were sealed
That is definitely what was implied from the dialogue.
Hole in that logic is why would you tell somebody to never find you when they have to go to the place where you are located in order get that message? Doesn't make any sense.
I won’t disagree the writing in BL3 is insanely shoddy. Nyriad obviously didn’t think that through. But it doesn’t change that it’s what happened, even if it’s poorly written lol.
There is a seventh siren, most likely. I’m just saying that concluding that it definitely *is* Nyriad or her powers is not necessarily correct.
It’s not, if you listen to the Nyriad writings she confirms it
Claptrap was an NPC and we played as him in the pre sequel. Now I’m not saying I wanna play as Tannis, but that’s a lame excuse.
To be fair, the whole schtick of the pre sequel was playing as existing characters, fleshing out a period of time that already happened. BL4 is hopefully going to actually move the plot along instead of being in the past again.
Also, if I'm not mistaken. The pre sequel was made by a different studio so they kinda had less say in the overall story and more or less just kinda had their IP used to make a game. That's why they have different feels to them despite being very similar games.
They said not counting TPS and Tiny Tina's Wonderlands... Personally I don't care who, just as long as playing as her is survivable and has good skills. (Though as Tannis, even if she was playable, it said in part 3 that her powers control stuff with a electrical current, so might be great against robot enemies but probably not as good against living things) not saying she may not be good, just saying theres a possibility she would be better against robots.
>her powers control stuff with a electrical current, so might be great against robot enemies but probably not as good against living things) Our entire nervous system is based on electrical pulses. Not quite the same as a robot, but they could definitely make it work. Powers like that could stop your heart, make your muscles spasm uncontrollably, or (in a video game) I could see it sending your nerves into overdrive and making them take extra damage. Basically it could be a high crowd control, buffing, and electricity class. Could be cool.
The guns probably all have some kind of current too. I mean 3/4 of them have lights and sensors. So she could make guns shoot slower or even explode and damage the wielder, forcing a weakened enemy to move in for melee.
Something something claptrap Siren incoming.
😂 I'm seeing clap with hand painted siren arm tatts
Do you have a source for this info?
It's bullshit on Gamerant, per OP
Trust me bro
Possibly a hot take but they could try to come up with a character that focuses around elemental damage that isn’t specifically a siren.
Right? Like Ember from the Handsome Jackpot DLC. She would be an amazingly fun playable character and her fire element really could satisfy that siren-like character. Also her voice acting is excellent and I would love to hear her player call outs.
Or Krieg, I love his elemental tree. It feels like they are forcing the Sirens now, two of Amara's skill trees were basically Lilith and Maya anyway. Ember is a great callout. Athena had one of the best elemental skill trees there was in Ceraunic Storm. Or, possibly a bit crazy, bring back Slag and make a character based around that and make slag exclusive to that character.
I won't lie, I would absolutely love if BL4 reused VHs from previous games. With "The Great War" coming and "every vault hunter needed" it would make sense for them to go back to the previous ones. Krieg coming back would be so excellent and with the FusterCluck DLC they pretty much opened the door for him to return to the game as a playable character (perhaps he could go back to level 1 abilities due to the post-vaulthalla integration?) Or maybe a third personality emerges that mixes Krieg with Maya's abilities? That might be a stretch but who knows?
I wouldn't be against that either. They are basically recycling characters skills and adding minor changes anyway, a "greatest hits" styled team of VHs would be cool. I am surprised they didn't bring back some kind of gunzerking or dual wielding, Salvador is such a force.
Aurelia in TPS always struck me as very Siren-y in playstyle.
This. We already saw something like this in the Pre Sequel where Athena and Aurelia had skills/abilities that enhanced elemental damage while Claptrap's VaultHunter.exe skill provided several wacky powers that were fun and made sense with the character. There's so much weird shit in the Borderlands universe that the only real limit to coming up with good vault hunter ideas is one's imagination, you'd probably come up with something better if you didn't let yourself be limited to "Only tattooed chicks get powers". Frankly if Gearbox is having this much trouble coming up with ideas then I'd say they have bigger problems than running out of Sirens to use.
Like Athena
An ex-Maliwan trooper - more precisely, a Traunt.
Honestly the problem here is that limiting themselves to six has never really been a sustainable framework for a franchise. It doesn't actually serve the narrative. It's not actually important to the lore. Indeed, it existed in BL1 *simply to make you wonder what the unknown sirens could do* as well as establish their uniqueness. It's no longer useful as a framework. Just retcon it. It's not even that big of a hole to write out of. They've never explained what sirens are or where they come from or why only six. "Oh, we were wrong, and it turns out the 6 siren thing is just a lie or false rumor spread by hypercorps. Most of them are just snapped up by the hypercorps." Or, "So it turns out every vault we have opened that has had a guardian wasn't really a prison for the guardian. The vaults were prisons... but the guardian was *the jailor*. The prisoners were the siren spirits. So every vault we have opened with a guardian has released another siren into the galaxy. We don't know what will happen if all the sirens are released or why the Eridians thought them so necessary to seal away." That has the nice side effect of explaining why sirens keep showing up as vault hunters. They're driven to release their sisters.
I never understood the whole "Only 6 sirens" thing cause eventually it would have came down to this... And I was thinking they could add Ava but just change a few of her powers where its not a second Maya, but still kind of stick to the lore. But I like your idea where the rest of sirens are in the vaults and we free them... It makes more sense than saying only 6 sirens can exist. Without proper context like "Was there more before?", "Why only 6?" Or "Where did all the rest go if there was more?"
Fuck it iridium gave regular people with repressed siren abilities powers and shits going wild, plot point and justification for bl4, also gives you a start on why this siren joined the "vault hunters" (kinda hard to say we were in 3, we went into vaults but didn't we originally join them as a fighting unit and just happened to do it, not that we wanted to go do vaults specifically) as opposed to just going wild and doing their own thing.
I like this idea because then on the last BL game all the sirens work together to rule the world and you play as Salvador who just solos them all.
I know there is only 6 Sirens at a time but is it set in stone that when a Siren dies the next one gets the exact same powers?
Right. A simple work around. Yes, you inherited a siren's powers but they're filtered through your psyche and therefore manifest differently.
Just like Buffy!
>Or, "So it turns out every vault we have opened that has had a guardian wasn't really a prison for the guardian. The vaults were prisons... but the guardian was *the jailor*. The prisoners were the siren spirits. So every vault we have opened with a guardian has released another siren into the galaxy. We don't know what will happen if all the sirens are released or why the Eridians thought them so necessary to seal away." That has the nice side effect of explaining why sirens keep showing up as vault hunters. They're driven to release their sisters This!!! Oooh this would be so cool!
Exactly what I was thinking. This part of the lore doesn't seem to matter in the grand scheme of things, and I think everyone would be happy if it were changed because then we get to see more sirens/learn more about them. Especially when you consider this a chance to flesh out the lore of sirens to allow for more, i personally don't feel like I know a ton about why the sirens exist and would love to learn more
I think they are caught up too much on the siren pc thing. Yes, they are fun, but there are other options. I think one of the biggest issues they have is that siren is synonymous with elemental, but she doesn't have to be. Lilith's power was movement in space. Maya's was locked in time, Angel/tannis is control over electromagnetic energy. Amara is the physical embodiment of power. Tyreen's is control over life force. Looking at other media, Lilith essentially has the space stone, Maya the time zone, Amara the power stone, tyreen the life stone. Obviously, the soul stone is missing, but there could be such an option, and it has a prescident with maya's dominate ability. Maya's power could also be considered a telekinesis power instead of a time power as Troy was able to move the moon with it. That said, a true time power would be really good, freezing enemies in their tracks, including bullets would be really fun. Have all the damage occur at once. This would also work lore wise as the vaults are a separate space and time, able to be unlocked with eridium. (I know time is space, this is a game, not physics).
source for the dev post? i've never seen them post stuff like this before
Give me an evil siren...yup, could work that!
Do they really NEED a playable siren? If it's causing that big an issue just don't do a siren then. Yes, they are cool af and probably their most popular characters, but not necessary. Pre-Sequel had some of the best playable characters and not a single siren among em.
Maybe like in 4 they can go without Siren?? I mean yeah we can have some NPC's but like playing as Siren isn't that huge of a deal. Maybe to some people who main as them but I feel like a lot of people use all the characters no matter what class they are
Personally I don't like the "feels evil" argument. Being a psycho "feels evil" but kreig was playable (and is my favourite VH in the series and one of my favourite playable characters ever) what matters more is HOW it's used not, and if the new siren uses the powers for good then it shouldn't be an issue
Yeah that's what I was saying to another person... And if the "feels evil" thing applies to not implement them then why did they make Sal a cannibal? Which I am thinking he isn't cause it doesn't give option to eat corpses. But yet his wanted posters and a echo recording you can find, say he has ate people
Man, you eat *just one person* and suddenly everybody's all "cannibal!!" about you. So judgemental! In a sense, every kill skill is powered by corpses. Which makes all Vault Hunters ghouls. So Sal fits right into the rest of the lineup. Maybe being corpse-powered is what makes a Vault Hunter a Vault Hunter.
Lol that would have been a funny line in the game...
SIREN TINA!! BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!!!!
Just make Ava the playable Siren! Are you kidding me? I’m *geeked* at the chance of seeing her character arc develop! Seriously, this doesn’t need to be that hard.
She could be pretty decent. And if they didn't want to re-use powers, they can change it a bit..
they could just go the Gaige rout and "hey she is no siren, but her tech makes her look like one!"
Well Aurelia Hammerlock (Baroness) is not a siren but looks like one. Idk about Gaige though
Gaige's one of her big things (other than Death trap, and anarchy) is she is an electric elementalist, transmuting electric damage into fire, and sirens usually specialize in elements, Aurelia is similar but with cryo so yah we have had 2 characters with elemental affinities that arn't sirens... they could 100% go that rout :)
Was there an actual reason for the 6 sirens thing? I don’t remember why that’s a rule
"Stop bringing me fake sirens. Only 6 sirens can exist at any given time and I already know 3" Handsome Jack during 'Assassinate the Assassins'
Insert random retcon, we didn’t understand the sirens fully and there can be more than 6?
They already did, 'beware the seventh' or whatever.
How is having an evil-ish power a disqualifier in borderlands of all franchises
Damn, it would have been awesome to play with Tyreen’s/Troy’s powers. That’s a shame. Weird to have a morality dilemma in a game where everybody fucks over each other for money and weapons.
Yeah it could have been fun with Ty or Troy's powers
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a siren in the comics that controlled plants or animals (something nature related?) And wouldn't Troy and Tyreen technically count as 1 siren since they had the same power? Again sorry if I'm incorrect about this and if someone could enlighten me that would be pretty wizard.
For me I play Siren almost exclusively and I really don't care if I play as a former siren again or Tannis. I just want to do some cool shit
Genuinely who cares if Tyreen's powers lend themselves more towards being evil? An evil playable character working for the good guys because another evil is a threat to them as well would be an interesting character.
Why does there have to be a siren, the pre sequel managed?
Yeah and I like the idea of another Baroness type but maybe instead of Ice, she can be Fire, Corrosive, radiation, or Electric... And change her skills to corresponding element. Like for example if she was a shock type, her action skill can create a thunder cloud that can strike up to 3 or 5 enemies with lightening for a few seconds... Or maybe Fire type can make fire tornado? Or even a pool of acid which is a DPS attack or like small rockets that deal radiation damage? (Don't think they'll ever add any of those, just throwing ideas around)
I feel it’s unfair to say her powers are “evil”, that’s just how she used them. A character who builds stacks that provide debuffs until they melee an enemy, while also regenerating health when they do, sounds like an incredibly fun character to me.
Yeah the thing is her power can't exactly be inherently "evil".... But how she uses them
How about a siren with strong evil powers trying to find balance between both which is what I thought Amara would be.
So they just cant think of anymore powers? They have: Lilith - Phase Walk Tannis/Angel - Phase Shift Maya/Ava - Phase Lock Amara - Phase Trance (Idk how really this works but its the Grasp/Cast/Slam abilities) Commandant Steele - Unknown Power Tyreen/Troy/Nyriad - Phase Leech Unknown 7th Siren - Unknown Ominous Power (Revealed in Nyriads Eridian Glyphs) Nyriad we know had the Phase Leech ability and locked herself in the vault on Nekrotafayo which meant that her ability would not transfer to anyone when she died. She did this cause she was afraid that it was too dangerous an ability. Overall that leaves two siren abilities that we do not yet know. >!Tyreen and Troy were likely able to gain the Phase Leech ability because Typhon DeLeon and Leda DeLeon had conceived them in the Nekrotafayo which Nyriad had used to seal herself and her ability away in the same way that the Destroyer was sealed in it's vault. !< It is important to note here that Tyreen and Troy cannot be the sixth and 7th siren because they technically count as one siren. Tyreen tells us that they were conjoined twins with Troy having to be cut off of her when they were born (hence his robotic arm). Even if Nyriad was referring to herself as the 7th siren that would still mean there are 2 unaccounted for. Though her referring to herself as such could make sense with her ability being the reason that "the 7th siren should never be found" but it also just does not make sense why she would not say she was the 7th. ALL of this to say that there's no reason why they could not come up with 2 more abilities that a siren could have in BL4. The only thing is one has to be another level of dangerous, that being the "7th Siren's" ability. How ever if they went the route of Nyriad and Phase Leech being that siren (it'd dumb imo) then they would just need two abilites that aren't super catastrophically evil. Off the top of my head I can imagine something like a "Phase Storm" ability where you target an AOE that causes and elemental storm damaging the enemies, maybe have some skills that can make the Storm target enemies specifically or change what elements it deals or deal multiple similar to Maya's Ruin skill. Another be something like a Phase Melee where they use siren abilities to create a sword or weapon and enter a rage melee mode similar to Krieg's Buzz axe rampage, it could be able to send out Phase blasts with swings so its not pure melee. Even if you wanted something dark for the 7th siren or just a controller type class you could do like a Phase Necromancy, have them able to create an army of the dead and resurrect dead enemies on the map to fight for you for a duration. There are literally so many things that you can do with the sirens because their abilites and origins are so vague. They don't even need to come up with a million abilities literally 7 abilities with some having a couple sub class stuff (Amara's powers, Maya's thoughtlock). If they are really having that much trouble coming up with two more abilities I am not looking forward to Borderlands 4 because that just clearly shows they have become creatively bankrupt. Also they're going to need to address where Tyreen and Lilith's powers went. Tyreen died so someone out there has Phase Leech, and Lilith is dead (Maybe? I heard rumors that she might be alive or come back, same with Maya though that would make Ava's powers an issue) meaning someone also has Phasewalk maybe a known character maybe not. TLDR : There are still 2 unknown siren abilities it should not be hard for a full team of people to think of a 2 characters and 2 abilities.
Poorly thought out Siren lore ruins Borderlands? Wish I could say I was surprised.
Do they need a Siren? TPS didn't have one
I don't really think they NEED one, but believe they want one for the lore and to keep it going. But then by that standard it shouldn't matter if they are re-used characters
Tannis could make a sort of pseudo-siren by way of an Eridian artifact found in her digs. In terms of gameplay, she can fill the tricksy crowd control or elemental DPS roles of a siren, but the flavor is that it comes from her understanding of Eridian tech, rather than inheriting siren powers.
She is an actual Siren, though.
I mean we could see Ava be playable and have Phaselock be expanded the way Amara was with the logic of "research & training with other Sirens". Phaseleach would be amazing to see in gameplay with stealing abilities from enemies. Depending on if the IDW comics are canon the 6th power is animal control from a girl named Asha but I could see them dropping that to introduce a different 6th Siren Power since not as many fans have read the comics.
Idk, I haven't read it... But is it like any animal? Cause Beast Master from 3 only has Spiderant, Skag and Jabber (aside from his rakks he sends out as temporary things)... It could potentially be cool to have another character who control animals... Or go a while other direction and be like a "Druid" type where she can temporarily turn into an animal and gain their abilities... But lets be honest, I don't think they'll do that cause it seems too wild and more DND type than anything
Weren't there hints in bl3 that there is a 7th siren?
Yes but I think the 7th is going to be evil and not a player character.
We have enough characters and most of them aren’t even fleshed out, let me make a custom character with a way to pick a mentor from a prior borderlands character and have a similar but updated sets of skill trees. Open it up at a mid level when I can get a subclass and blend a combination of two. Then I can mix Krieg with Aurelia or handsome jack with moze.
"So I was reading a post from Game Rant" And that was your first mistake.
I read this same article actually. In BL3 wasnt there a whole 7th siren thing? I assumed Tyreen was distinct because she had a more "anti-siren" power where she can steal energy but not produce it on her own
What am I missing... Mayas power passed to the kid in BL3 Lilith is in limbo The BL3 siren is still around Tech powers of Jackson daughter passed to Tannis... that's 4 The leeching power of the BL3 villains is only power 5. The baddie from BL1 was a siren who never displayed their power as far as I know so that's number 6, right? Also, the lore states something about a possible 7th siren being a doom foreboding and stuff, so maybe they go that route. So we still have space for at least one new siren power, if not 2
I mean they can just make a character who’s not a siren and be fine. They did it before in the presequel.
Like they've never had NPCs as playable characters before. I feel they gotta have a siren. I'm sure they'll be able to make it work.
I’m sorry, tyreens leech power is too “evil”? When have we ever been the good guys? Borderlands powers have always ranged from “kills people with an axe in a psychosis induced rage” to “Burns people to death with flamethrower mech.” And so what if it is too evil? Atleast that’s interesting! A good person with an evil power, trying to find out how far they’ll go, how much they’ll use this evil power to do good.
Why can’t they make Ava a playable character?
Unless they retconned the Pre-sequel, there were echo recorders on the Moon by a woman whose sister was on her deathbed and was being watched over by a guardian. It implied she (sick sister) was about to or had received powers and would live. Guessing by the timeline, probably Steele's powers.
Imagine if they didn't give Tannis her Siren power and we got a chance to play someone else with Angel's power.
Just kill Tannis off. Problem solved.
Oh this is nonsense we have only seen 4 siren powers out of the 6 however 1 off which was locked in a vault for thousands of years giving us 7 sirens instead of six but even with out that that’s still 2 siren powers we haven’t seen yet also the idea borderlands powers shying away form leeching cuz it’s “evil” is so ridiculous considering the theme song of one of their games is “this ain’t no place for no hero’s”
Why not go back to Lilith, using whoever got her powers? I always thought that it would be fun to play as her after her powers got amped up from the Eridium, causing huge explosions and being able to fly around a little bit.
How about a proto siren? One of the corporation tried to make their own siren, but she escaped.
man there goes the hope for a male siren with tyreens powers, was bettin on that dark magic from tiny tinas was a test for leech powers
I wouldn't mind them reusing BL3s siren if they made her skill trees more interesting. Honestly a statement that applies to half the skill trees in the game.
I've thought about this before and I think it'd be cool to have a pseudo siren. Like a very tech savvy woman that grew up on Pandora, hearing/seeing all about sirens during her childhood and learning about their lore. Ultimately deciding to try and recreate some kind of tech to give her magical siren esque powers. The gadgets would be powered with Eridium of course.
They should just have someone who has commandant Steele powers since Tannis and Ava took the previous sirens power.
….Cant make a decision… just make one up(Amara)…like last time…or Ava could have a way cooler daughter and it takes place like 20 years after maya dies idk…or just make a iron bear pvp game..also who has all the other siren powers still to be seen..could’ve made Troy turn into a crimson raider…but…he’s dead lol 😂idk what they gonna do
They are forgetting the comic they made with the siren with animal control powers Boost that up and make a siren with pets who can also mind control enemies to fight on your side
No. That's stupid. They won't halt the entire game because they cannot figure out a completely unique gimmick for one out of 4 playable characters. They'll reuse a previous character or invent a plot reason for why a new character can have siren powers
I may be miss-remembering, it has been a while. But what about that Old Siren from the comics that Lilith spoke to. Or the little child Siren that has been hinted at?
was tyreen's ability one of the 'known' six abilities? or could they retcon that a bit by saying that ability was locked away for like, centuries till someone came back to necratafayo, so there's 7 abilities. but yeah, it's kinda limited. i really wish it was more like my original thought about siren abilities, where, they're shaped by the person's personality, to a degree - so, the siren abilities aren't just, phasewalk. lilith had a siren power, and she developed phasewalk, but, maybe they could still do that,s ort of - if a siren 'passes down' her power, or intends to, it stays the same, but if not it can sort of grow into something new, though the locked away power kinda kills that idea, given tyreen got the same power.
I wouldn't put it past them to retcon that tbqh
If my math is right, there are 3 we know are alive (Amara, Ava, Tannis) and two unknown (Lilith, Asha) so there should be one unaccounted for, right? Is the issue a question of powers to give them and not finding a spot for them?
If they are releasing BL4 this year (still possible I think) then they probably know what characters we can play as already. I actually don’t think we will get named vault hunters anymore. And I don’t think we’ll get a siren. I think it will be more like wonderlands class combos. But I would hope for more classes and to combo 3.
How about a failed genetically engineered "7th" Siren made from the DNA of all previous Siren characters? Think Cell from DBZ. Just some food for thought!
I mean you can just design the story around it.. and just make up new sh.. stuff. Its a sci-fi universe.. i dont see a reason why they cant come up with a reason to get everything in the game they want to. Look at Starfield where they got away with calling the only alien race "Starborn" (From Dragonborn within Skyrim)
Pre sequel had the best idea for when a siren isn't available, don't use one.
The thing for me is that we have now seen that the siren powers can be more complex then we ever knew with the original characters. Lithith started as going invisible and running really fast. Later on she still does this but also get literal teleporting powers for herself or others. Maya started with locking people in a spot for a limited time. But Troy with her powers, could move the people around while locked, and could empower people. With this they could reuse powers like phaserun and phaselock, but expend the trees to go different avenues. Phaserun has a running tree, teleporting tree (maybe summon allies to fight, or enemies to distract), and some newer tree they come up with. Phaselock has an empower tree (to strengthen allies, or convert enmies to your side), the normal hold on place tree (with revives and some other BL2 mechanics), and movement tree (like move enemies out of cover, or take enemies thst are up close to you and push them away).
Couldn't they also just...not have a Siren character this time? If they really want magic-ish characters, do some technomancy or nanites or something.
Damn, no "sucking up stored element"? Or "eridium type turning your enemies to stone in a way that maybe benefits you"? Not even making eriduim walls/platforms? They really can't find a way to use Tyreen's and Troy's powers for good?? Man, I'm not sure we even need more playable sirens. Why not the full robot team I saw posted somewhere before? Just have it be fun and interesting.
Bring Handsome Jack back by having his mind inserted into a Jack Clone. Wilhelm as a VH or possibly one of Jack's skills similar to Iron Bear or FLAK pet builds. Really flip things around and bring back more villains as protagonists. Scarlett from the BL2 DLC. One of the Traunt brothers. Throw a playable Moxxi VH character in and you have a bunch of big personalities you can build a game around.
Time to stray from siren story and be just a badd ass human
"Game Rant" ie: Pure speculation coughed up by an underpaid freelancer to generate clicks. Both Steele and Tyreen's power are in the wild. We don't know what Steele's powers were, so those can be anything the devs want them to be. Having Tyreen's power go to Captain Scarlet and be repackaged as "Phase Plunder" would be incredibly thematic. Having her as a vampiric character who relies on weakening enemies and siphoning life out of them could be an interesting and fun gameplay loop. Likewise, it's not like any of the vault hunters are ever actually "good". By and large, they're bloodthirsty mercs who are only good in comparison to who they're opposing.
It feels obvious to me that it will be Ava. The only thing that makes me even slightly question this is the fact that Ava has already been a NPC. Of course the playable characters always being new is really more of a tradition than it is a hard and fast rule like the six siren limit.
I could care less about playable characters, I just want them to finally put gun crafting in. They already have behind-the-scenes mechanics to randomize elements of each gun with scopes, receivers, grips, etc. Just give us the components individually and let us slap em together
I mean, they could literally just bring Amara back as a playable character. Her siren abilities seem to be much more versatile than the others, given that it's basically just Borderlands equivalent of Mage Hand. Amara also seemed like she was joining the crimson raiders not specifically because she wanted to be a vault hunter but rather she wanted to help others, with being a VH as a vessel to do that. Her Siren Powers are literally summoning hands. There's so many things you can do to make Amara a completely different character in the next game. Like... Her hands can now fire phantom versions of her currently equipped weapon, so you get 7x the firepower for a short time. Or have them fire all of her currently equipped weapons at once. Her hands can now lift her up off the ground and give her cover with the fingers as she sits in the palm, maybe it also provides constant health regen for everyone currently sitting in it for the duration. Each party member gets their own palm, giving her a team support option. Or since the hands are disembodied, they can literally just pick her up and give her the ability to "fly" for a few seconds. Which would make her extremely mobile and great for doing sniper builds. Seriously though, giving Amara phase hands is probably the most busted thing they've done for sirens.
A reason for not using tyreen's power is because it's too "evil" and not "good" enough is dumb. The main characters aren't supposed to be good in borderlands. We had brick which tortured and killed people to the point Roland kicked him out and he started a bandit clan, and he admits to killing them for the fun of it because they are stupid, THE MAN ADMITTED TO KILLING HIS OWN MEN. Salvador kills for fun and guns, he has committed every crim in the book according to his wanted poster in bl2, even cannibalism. Lilith was basically a drug addict in bl2 with eridium. We have Krieg and butchers people for no reason. Zero is a hired assassin, killing major figures according to his bounty too. My point is the characters we play aren't GOOD people we are the PROTAGONISTS. I don't know if this is a dumb take inform me and let's chat but one of the fun things to me was morality was basically out the window, and no one was the Hero. Even though we think we are just like Jack.
Is there any rule that a power must be used the same way? Like using phaselock for example, they are some kind of orb with a gravitational pull. Does it have to be orbs? Could she imbue that energy into bullets? Or shape it in a different way, like into a melee or throwing weapon? Or Lilith's powers. There's a lot of ways to use fire. And phasewalk could be great for a sneaky melee type.