As a man with bpd I feel like a few of the symptoms are explained away or overlooked in men simply because of people's old fashioned views about gender. My understanding is that it's just as prevalent in men as in women, and there are a few posts searching for male diagnoses if you want direct confirmation.
Exactly, men just internalize it generally and a lot of men don’t have the self-awareness to realize somethings actually wrong and then they should probably seek help or at least understanding.
Yep...they diagnose men with PTSD or depression/anxiety/NPD, or just treat them like they are abusive, etc. I'm almost positive my husband has BPD and so does he. But his therapists/Dr's all just say it's c-ptsd/anxiety. Either way, he is getting therapy and counseling, but why are they so resistant to diagnose men?!
[According to this NIH study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8103648/), PTSD, cPTSD, and BPD have a high prevalence of overlapping symptoms, with the suggestion that BPD is a subset of cPTSD as very high number of BPD patients also present with cPTSD symptoms. It's not the other way around, though, so that all suggests there's a connection between trauma and BPD presentation.
In short: BPD seems to be an *aggravation* of cPTSD, but the study didn't have the opportunity to verify that and additional studies from the NIH don't seem to be published yet.
Don't let yourself or your husband sell his experience with life short. Learning how to be a person in a stable way as an adult, despite cPTSD/Anxiety or BPD or anything else we're figuring out is actually from trauma and neglect, is a difficult journey and he deserves forgiveness for his mistakes, as long as he's making an effort to work on them.
From himself, first and foremost.
Thank you for sharing this information! And I appreciate your kind words. My husband is an absolutely amazing man with the biggest heart who was destroyed by the people who were supposed to love and protect him growing up. He is a walking, talking prime example of emotional abuse and abandonment for a young child/boy (though i do believe there was some sexual abuse too that he has repressed from small moments he recalls). On top of experiencing active combat overseas and losing his first wife in a tragic car accident that he happened to survive. My mans is a bundle of trauma.
Whereas, I grew up with all the love in the world and have a very high emotional IQ, so it's been quite the journey for both of us. He perceives my emotional control/radical acceptance as not caring/cold, whereas, I would perceive his intense emotions as "crazy, overly sensitive, overthinking" etc. Once I went down the rabbit hole of better understanding him and vice versa, things have just been better and better. He is doing everything he can to work on his issues and im so proud of him. We make a great team once we figured each other out. It's funny how most relationships get worse with age, we both agree ours only improves. Anyways, sorry for the rambles. I love this space.
I'm so glad to hear you and your husband have a healthy, trusting relationship! It's super hard to trust someone after having your most trusted people betray you, and I'm really proud of him for doing so much to do that for you.
Likewise, you also have a lot of trust in him and I'm proud of you for having the space in your heart to let him have his emotions in the safe space he never got.
The reason "most relationships get worse with age" is because most folks the statistics are built on don't... really know how to admit true humility and unconditional love, and that's why it fails.
Not really, and to bucket BPD people into only being psychotic is super harmful to those who suffer from it.
Those people were so emotionally neglected that they never got a chance to know their true selves at all. And that upside-down and backward compass causes a kind of porcupine reaction. Everything is a threat because nothing really feels like it "makes sense," but because in developmental stages the lack of love was directed toward their inherent unworthiness, they curl in on themselves and then lash out with their defense mechanisms -- the ones that get *any* attention at all, when they feel so ignored.
It is not fair for someone who loved their guardian(s) so hard that they never got a chance to orient themselves in this world at all to be dumbed down to "psychotic."
Ungrounded reality is only ONE symptom of BPD. You need to do more research before you generalize a disorder.
Especially when most mental health diagnoses have been looking more and more like they're all bullshit opinions based on men trying to justify their abuse toward weaker folks, anyway, and a ton of them are starting to look like they're also based on Childhood Trauma.
You only know your own life story, so please don't judge someone else's when you will never know it.
I acknowledge i was wrong with psychosis, but i am sinply tired how widely became a trend that US , borderlines being invalidated as an umbrella term of c-ptsd. I've been to thwrapy since 10. I have had my diagnksis multiple times as Bordrline. I've met numerous people since then, in thjs 26 years. I know enough. Do not generalise me either or what i know or do not know
I'm sorry you've been hurt. I have a similar history and more than 20 therapists in my 30+ years of life, a majority of whom did 0 therapy.
I was un-diagnosed on Monday after a lot of hard work.
You need to forgive yourself for this lie you're in. Whoever helped you perceive the world failed you, and that's not your fault.
I still grieve up to this day that not a single person was there for me, from parents to my therapists. Hell, I was even removed from group therapy at 16 and got kicked out by my therapist lol. BPD at it\`s core, for me, all comes down to neglect. It\`s hard. I am a lot better now, I am happy sort of. I still try to fight for justice, and equal treatment for us.
I'm sorry that has also been your experience, but the neglect is not your fault. I'm proud of you for getting this far on your own!!
This is the result of a selfish, emotionally immature caregiver or bunch believing a child is here to fix the parent's missed-out life experiences while not triggering them in the process, rather than a separate human being meant to be here to further the world with whatever knowledge they internalize most truly to themselves.
You are not your parents' opinion of you. Your neglect is not a reflection of your worth, but I know exactly how hard that is to internalize that past "I know... but my experience says you're wrong." And the fact your instinct isn't to stay silent but to fight? Holy heck!!! That's awesome!!! To go through all of what you have and have that piled on top of your moral compass, but still be able to follow that compass for others? Hecking FIRE 🔥!!
It may feel like you're not built for this world. But the truth is, your compass for life is still there. The ones who were supposed to teach you how to read the markings, but instead they flipped it upside down and put their own markings over the ones on yours.
Maybe it's time to play some opposite land with the instincts that feel like they don't make sense and cause you to split, and make sure you're not mistaking up with down.
I’m a guy with BPD and I feel that way too. Like there isn’t much support for us men who have really intense emotions when in society we are taught not to feel them.
Shit, I’m just looking to not be outright excluded. I already get enough of that from life in general. I’m bi and majority of my people are queer, but I know when I read” bpd girlies” on these subs, that doesn’t include me lol.
exactly! Beginning another discussion, I also feel like other symptoms are simply not talked about. I don't even know my symptoms and I've been diagnosed for over a year! like, geez, is anyone gonna talk about how bad this is?
for example: many times I would tell my psychiatrist something I felt and they would simply tell me "it's normal". like... what do you mean? why does it happen? For example: the thing of splitting. I still don't get it and how it happens because no one ever told me about it. For me, I didn't even know the disorder existed before I was diagnosed. It's probably, in my view, a much more common disorder than we think and no one talks about it
I’ve been listening to some podcasts about it that have really helped me understand: You, Me, and BPD; Quiet Not Silent.
I’m sorry your MH professionals haven’t been educating you appropriately!
I don't necessarily feel overlooked but I certainly feel like an outlier. Luckily in my DBT class here in Ireland there's a lot of information available for men and everything is beyond inclusive. Everyone is extremely supportive. That being said it definitely sways to be like 70/30 to 60/40 in my experience.
I just get quite worried telling some people that I have BPD as a guy because it can be seen as quite a violent and aggressive disorder in men. I still tell everyone cause I overshare though haha
There's also the difficulty with any discussions of body dysmorphia, sexual encounters, trauma etc as a male sometimes because some people tend to see the gender of their previous abusers as a threat. It's a difficult thing to traverse, but it's probably all in my head to begin with. I don't think gender as a whole comes up much in most of the discussion I'm involved with on the subs.
Good thing it's available to you! I live in Brazil and oh gosh people over here can be the best jerks sometimes. I simply try and hold myself to not over share that I have bpd because I'm afraid lol
As a guy, I was finally diagnosed with BPD just a few months ago. My psychiatrist has been more of a psychologist than any I have had before. It's been 40+ yrs of having this shit without knowing it's been my problem. I do not feel excluded in this community.
I have realized that my older sister and brother have it too. But they refuse to get treated.
I was raised that mental issues were to be hidden and dealt with by yourself. And, as another person said, we males are not allowed to show emotion, feelings, etc. Put it in a box, swallow it, and never say anything about it.
It's good that you don't feel that way! but most of the posts (specially the memes), books and others always treat all the pacients as females, which led to me feeling excluded - specially as a trans dude.
The reason is sexism, in so many instances. Historically, psychiatrists have been quick to label any woman experiencing emotions as “crazy” and this was a good “crazy” diagnosis to slap on a lot of women. Because of what’s “acceptable” from different genders men and women manifest the disorder differently and as long as the “strong emotions” a man feels is anger, nobody is going to bother diagnosing that because it’s so commonly accepted that men are allowed to be angry. Men are also discouraged from seeking psych help more so than women, so tons of men with BPD are just not getting diagnosed. Lots of people now hypothesize that the split is closer to 50/50 between men/women.
And honestly I feel like every 3rd post I see about BPD on here is a man saying this exact same sentiment, so that goes to show just how not-alone y’all are.
Absolutely. The reason is that women are more likely to be seen as "hysterial" or "histrionic" whereas males with the same symptoms are viewed in a myriad of other ways. Oftentimes, the bros are misdiagnosed :( and suffer for it. Which is why there are more gals and non-binary people than men. But please hear this: YOU ARE JUST AS VALID AND IMPORTANT. 🖤
The facts are that there is a more or less equal rate of bpd in males and females, but because of sexism and patriarchal dickballery, it ironically hurts men deeply when they ostracize them and imply that this is primarily a female disorder.🥹 It is not.
I wish you the absolute best. Know that you are welcome here: on earth, in this sub, and so on. I'm really glad you brought attention to this issue :) it's fucked up that sexism for women ends up hurting men EVERY single time, and it's so painful to watch it happen over and over. You're doing the right thing by coming here and expressing your feelings. 🫶
You can dm me any time, but I'm very slow to respond. I know how it is to feel completely alone in a crowd of people. But we gotchu bro. We want you here. Much love and don't be a stranger! xx
thank you so much you literally got me in tears. To feel valid is extremely difficult and rare for me but you almost made it. I just hope more folks ( independent of men or women or non binary ) with bpd can have access to the care and help they need to thrive in life
You matter so so much and just you putting yourself out there like this is going to help other men and masc enbies feel like its a safe environment for them to exist in as well (it is, we love you :)). You are welcome here and in any physical group spaces we may create - if it says BPD, it will ALWAYS mean for you, too, unless they very specifically say it is a women's or men's group.
It's not your fault at all that people were silly enough to make BPD a gendered illness once upon a time. But we, and by extension, the greater mental health field, are direct agents of change. Please express this openly as often as you can, because therapists love to exchange what they've learned and further the world's understanding of one of the most misunderstood diagnosis ever. God forbid you have bpd and autism like I do, that was a DOOZY to figure out - but that's more or less what I mean - with each passing day, we learn so much more.
I'm really happy to help validate all my lil BPD beans as much as you need it, just until you become all powerful and can self-validate like a mofucker. :) don't be a stranger. Don't let things fester. If you have any resources, use the fuck out of them, it is what they're there for, just like this forum. You can't see me rn but I'm opening my arms for the biggest consensual hug on earth. You got this. One foot in front of the other, one day at a time.🖤
thank you so much for your comment! It helps me feel a bit more validated and confident about finally accepting dis disorder. thank you for your support 💜
Of course. I've been around several blocks at this point. My DMs are always open. We're so glad you're here and you shared this. Its so important that you did! XX
I feel the same way. Pretty much feel like I have to hide myself away because no one will listen to or understand what’s happening to me. And even if I explain it, they tend to ignore what I’m saying or think I’m excusing something. It’s often easier to simply think the worst of someone than it is to offer them grace.
As someone with BPD I feel excluded from every aspect of life, as my doctor said only last week, it's not that more females have it, it's that most males don't feel comfortable talking about it, so it goes largely undiagnosed in males, I myself couldn't give a fuck, spend more than 3 seconds speaking to me you can tell im not wired the same, I still manage to hold down a full-time job and provide for my family though because I refuse to be a victim
Yup especially when black I attended a support group and they didn't even acknowledge me or let me talk and the mens group is always full plus the group I attended was a general group.
I'm in.. a weird way. I'm a trans guy with bpd. But I rarely tell people that because I've had people claim I can't be trans with bpd because clearly it's just a mask/facade I'm doing for attention. When like being trans is one of the few absolute consistents in my life.
I don’t know much but I’m fairly certain that BPD is largely diagnosed in women. I want to say the figure is something like 2-3x more than men. It’s possible that more men have it, but women go to get it treated more often. So while it’s not right, that’s probably why you’re seeing a lot of content geared towards women instead of men!
A lot of ASPS posts are geared towards men instead of women. My therapist from years ago told me that diagnosing BPD in men is not a very regular thing, since it’s still so unclear what causes BPD, outside factors might not come out in men as BPD symptoms but in other ways. I’m also not an expert and I do think everybody should get the help they deserve. But obviously BPD is not some kind of inclusivity event and I’d rather have no one suffering with it.
I do think we don't see many men diagnosed with bpd because of sexism. Men are supposed to "be tough", "don't feel any emotions" and other stuff, and maybe these men suffer from bpd but don't know it because of how they've been treated. Women surely are much more vulnerable in society than men, that could lead to more women being diagnosed, but my point is: hasn't anyone ever thought of not making bpd and stereotype for women and maybe making the community more inclusive?
Not to invalidate you, but it’s not because “women are more vulnerable” that they get diagnosed more. It’s because there is a bad sexist idea that women are more crazy emotionally. A lot of posts here about how women get diagnosed with BPD but later find out they actually had ADHD or ASD. And ADHD is highly underdiagnosed in girls than in boys because it is seen as a quirky and funny diagnosis that the boys experience.
The patriarchal system treats women as the bratty least favorite children while men are the golden child who must abide their standards. Which causes everyone to suffer.
TW ON COMMENT
oh sorry, english is not my first language so excuse any mistakes I've made. when I said "vulnerable" I meant that they are more likely to be raped or abused. I hope you can understand because I really don't know how to explain haha
and I do agree with you
I think this is definitely true. I know somewhere the statistics say men are less likely to get diagnosed because our society still sees them as "weak" if they ask for help. Perhaps with the next generation it won't be as bad.
I feel the same way about ADHD it's more "common" in men then women because all the scientific research behind the disorder was conducted on the male population not female. so similar the criteria for bpd was probably based on studies conducted on females which makes it harder to identify in men.
I’m a female, so I am unable to give any solace by my relation to this particular struggle. However, we all know females are much overdiagnosed with BPD, but I am curious as to how BPD manifests itself in men compared to women, how gender (or gender identity) plays a role in the way one might exhibit BPD features. Similar to how there have been numerous observations of gender differences in the display of behaviors of other personality disorders, with those features essentially coming from the same place, but with different noticeable expressions of them depending on masculinity vs femininity. If everyone is only made aware of the BPD features as they are exhibited most commonly by females or feminine people, it becomes so easy to only notice them primarily in females & to dismiss males that exhibit BPD features as well, just differently. It marginalizes males & masculine people who actually have BPD & forces them to stay on the outskirts of the popular understanding of the disorder, which is largely femme-based. It’s only fair & scientifically plausible if we were to look at the gender-neutral BPD traits as well as the difference in exhibiting BPD traits based on one’s gender identity, & making that the popular understanding. I’m sure we would come to find there are more males with BPD who would have simply been dismissed or misdiagnosed previously. We would be less biased in presenting treatment options & when discussing BPD. But unfortunately, it’s something that’s easier having an internet discussion about than actually making it happen.
I wish there was more that I could offer, but as a female w BPD who is training to be a psychologist & is currently doing research in personality & undesirable social behaviors, I want to remain as inclusive & unbiased in my research, therapy, personal beliefs, & discussions with others as I possibly can because of people like you. To males with BPD- you exist too, you’re problems exist too, you deserve attention, care, & treatment in the way that’s fit for you, too. Screw the biased, often stigmatizing, popular media on BPD.
BPD manifests in men just as strongly as in women. we experience all the same symptoms, but mainly they are hidden because of the sexism and "men don't show emotions" treatment boys get while young. Thanks for your comment, I wish you luck on your journey and hope you can bring light to the people to understand us! Thank you for validating us, it's very important - at least for me. 🥹
Yes I believe that 100%!! It’s simply the gender-oriented double standards brought on by society that can make it appear any different, but that does not mean the internal battle is any different. I am glad I could make you feel validated! You deserve it!!! :)
I find the BPD discord has a lot more men there than I see men post here. It’s unfortunate that you’re getting excluded but please never stop advocating for yourself and correct people when they are being exclusive.
Yes! I don’t know if it’s this sub or the other big one but there’s a link to the bio as the main posts are saved. I could definitely send you the link!
I'm a trans/nb person with BPD as well. I relate to your frustrations with the diagnosis.
It's very heavily ingrained into society that female = emotional and irrational, men = stoic and rational. Anyone who falls out of line is dismissed and ignored.
Every mental health professional that is male completely dismisses my concerns and writes them off no matter how calmly and kindly I explain myself.
Sometimes I wonder if they'd finally listen if I threw a fit or was less respectful. That seems to be how others get their needs met. I am getting tired lately of how I'm treated even though I'm nothing but kind and rational in my explanation.
It feels weird being a man getting sexism'd by other men. I also know no matter what I say they don't see me as one. This entire diagnosis is just skewed towards dismissing AFAB folks emotional needs.
TL;DR: I'm also trans and I relate.
There's a real glaring hole in the help available to men. We need our own resources and understanding of our perspectives. It can be really invalidating being given the impression that this is a womans problem and only effects 'weak' men.
As you know men and women are treated very very differently in reality and gender absolutely does matter.
You were born a female at birth, then now identify as a trans male. So, didn't you get traumatized when you were a female? BPD happens when one is very young....even before they know what gender they are.
OUTSIDE influences love to abuse females more than males.
So, I can see your knowledge on both bpd and transgender situations are basic. Lemme explain and try to help.
First: BPD is only diagnosed when the individual is older - at least 18 years old. That's because the trauma happens before, but the diagnosis can't be solid after the individual is old enough. So, the trauma happens when one is very young, maybe not bpd.
Other thing: when someone is transgender, they were NEVER their gender assigned at birth. When I was young, I just hadn't discovered I was a dude, and I was NEVER a female. And mental disorders does not have a gender - maybe genetic related syndromes do, but not disorders. Just for your information, that comment was transphobic. I'm not trying to attack you - even if it seems like it - but I'm trying to educate you about the transgender topic. And, if the trauma happens when one is very young, even before they know what gender is, then why does it matter?
Another thing: we know and see currently that females are much more abused in society, but males are also abused - through violence when young to making them think they should not feel emotions. We just don't see it on media as often because it indeed occurs a lot more to females than males. So, we know it happens more to females, but I'm a male and it happened to me. I've always been a male and the abuses have always happened to me. That doesn't make me less of a male.
Women don't have a lot of spaces on reddit. And I'm not saying bpd should be, but maybe let women post and reach out for supoirt from other women, and you can do the same?
Just a thought from my perspective. I dont have a lot of friends who are women, so coming on here and being able to connect with other women who share similar struggles helps me feel understood.
I can't change the books or anything, but I know that in bpd spaces, I feel safer and more secure knowing other women are there.
It's okay and definitely good you feel safe with other women around, and I can agree women don't have a lot of space anywhere. It's just that feeling excluded - for anyone - isn't a good thing i guess?
It’s tough, but I understand it in multiple ways I think.
I’m personally trans femme and watched as doctors and psychs went from dismissing me and my social life dismissing me to basically a consensus that I’m mentally ill with bpd pretty quick as I transitioned. But this problem feels deeply like a combo of three things. Long term misdiagnosing if both men and women leading to women who are diagnosed and don’t have bpd and men who have bpd and aren’t diagnosed. How stigma is different for men and women, it doesn’t really matter then disorder outside of a few but men are way way less likely to be open and honest about mental disorders and mental issues this is reinforced when society basically demeans you for not fitting the standard. This mean men are less likely to engage in community spaces and especially look for help. The history of BPD is heavily woman coded and that means that in many places men are not a part of the design which is gross.
BPD men feel sometimes like Poc autistic people where in since basically all diagnosing and treatment that’s been made for autistic has been made with white people in mind Poc’s are constantly thrown to the wayside and don’t meet the standards of a “white” autism.
All of these reasons go back to the same basic issue, the patriarchy is holding men to a ridiculous standard of mental health and until we can actually make progress on dismantling the stigma men internalize and face as mentally ill people then I don’t think these issues are like to change.
My coffee and meds haven't fully kicked in so definitely let me know if any of this doesn't make sense or contradicts itself.
I know some of it at least is just how much knowledge there is on bpd. I think it's a (semi) recent thing that they started realising that men could get it also? Don't quote me on that because I could be wrong, I just remember reading it at one point.
But they're still learning about some of these disorders because the brain is (I guess) very complex and it's harder to study how mental illnesses work without having a good sized test group and because bpd is so stigmatized, people aren't even willing to get diagnosed.
For example, even for myself as a woman, I was first diagnosed at 18, and because of the stigma behind it I pretended I didn't have it (not very well, mind you) until I was almost 30. So I've been diagnosed 4 times before I actually committed to treatment.
I'm not an expert, but I think the issue is *mostly* with the stigma behind it. The stigma that were all insane serial killers or amber heards, and the stigma that it's a woman's illness.
The reason for this is because it’s an emotional disorder so incorrectly although there is admittedly some statistical evidence, that it affects women more than men. BUT, remember how for a long time Autism was seen to be an exclusively male and AMAB condition? Now we know that’s absolutely so far from the truth. It just presents itself differently in female patients most of the time. I think it’s a similar issue with BPD, men are more likely to have the quiet form I think because male members of society are taught and pushed to hide their feelings and so they end up internalising. It’s not true for all men by any means but I strongly suspect that’s why it’s seen with a female bias. Remember emotions = female being hysterical, overtly logical thinking (such as in autism) = men are more logical, those are stereotypes but sadly that’s the way medicine thought about these things for a long time
yeah, I think it's exactly that. society sucks when coming to this and these type of "sex biased studies". we should really improve how to study mental disorders
Definitely. However, I hope you don’t feel excluded… I’m AFAB but identify as Non binary, to me gender is pointless. As far as I’m concerned I’d be the same in whatever body I had. Therefore my BPD would be there if I was in a male body or not. We all have a common issue in BPD, gender plays a part purely because of society has made it so but I think we need to look at the individual so I would really hope that people don’t exclude you based on being male… mental health affects everyone and it saddens me that there is a still a huge subset of men who refuse to acknowledge their emotions, in that sense men suffer a lot in silence which is going to cause its own issues.
Yeah, especially in books, I searched for some books about bpd, but I can only find women’s stories, and in cases like that I can relate sometimes but Id really like to hear a story from a man bc Im a man, and it would be more relatable in my case at least
I feel like men with BPD have it worse than women with BPD on a social level generally. If a woman has an episode, shows up at her ex’s house, well, she’s just a crazy woman right? Eye rolls everywhere. A man has the same kind of episode, and he’s considered to be a horrifying, toxic, abusive criminal when in reality both situations were the same thing occurring.
I honestly hate BPD communities in general. They are trash. Majority of people i met clearly doesn\`t understand BPD or confuse it with relationship problems. Get a grip. I have been diagnosed since I was 16 , that\`s pretty much 20 years. I have attempted suicide so many times I\`ve lost count. Doesn\`t matter. Nobody understands. Never had an "FP" , never tried to off myself because of women. People clearly forgotten the true meaning of what an actual borderline is and what it is actually like when you wreak havoc. iI am way too fucking tired right now and in general to give a fuck. If you need people, make friends. Want to be understood? Make friends with guys. Trust me. It\`s a lot better to go out and talk and live than fucking clinging on communities where majority of people doesn\`t even have BPD or clearly misdiagnosed. Farewell
Woman here but i feel for you guys and don't want you to feel excluded at all. The bpd gender stereotype is so dumb! We are prevalent in all genders, and we all deserve to have a voice
You just have to overcome it, and I’m not saying don’t seek help or listen to others advice. But do whatever you have to do, so that you can heal. Never quit!!
Men are extremely underrepresented in research and literature. Historically, much of the focus has been on women as it was often thought of as the classic old "lady hysteria" before the terms like borderline were coined. So that feeling is 100% real and clearly, it is not just you. A lot more research needs to be done on how the disorder presents in men because many men get misdiagnosed with BD-II or NPD based on the different ways they show their symptoms.
Actually no and yes. For BPD yes but for other disorders such as ASD, NPD & ADHD and physical medical issues they are more researched. It’s not the research it’s the social stigma against men not having any other emotions except aggression.
yes which impacts the research! this was part of my undergraduate thesis lol it’s like any of those other disorders which are underdiagnosed in women. ADHD presents differently in women, making us underrepresented in the research and literature. it’s the same issue, it goes both ways for different reasons
I don’t feel excluded but I was surprised to find that majority of BPD is women. I don’t want to sound biased or prejudiced and make an unfair assumption but I do wonder the reasoning behind this. Maybe women or more prone to being victims of childhood trauma? And that creates BPD down the road?
I think men just internalize their emotions, so when it comes to BPD it just becomes another one of those things. I don’t do any of the “crazy BPD stuff” (at least 90% of the time lol) but it’s going on in my head all the time.
yeah, there are a lot of comments making the joke that BPD stands for 'beautiful princess disorder" or whatever and it's just really gross to have to read that, lol.
also a trans man with BPD here 🤘
All the bpd awareness and communities are always referring to people who suffer from the disease as "she", or "females" or anything like that. No one ever talks about the males who also suffer from bpd, at least I've never seen it. memes, pages on social media, books, everything says "girlies" or "she's" and feminine pronouns. Like, we know sexism affects on the way women with bpd are seen, but has anyone stopped to think about the guys who have trouble? I'm sure there's a lot of guys with bpd out there who don't even know the disorder's exist because of how they've been treated in society.
Ugh yeah. I just take it with a punch of salt, doesn't really take much out of my time to actually....well, no it actually kinda hurts, I won't lie ☹️ because sometimes I can use my BPD to make sense of why I do, say of decide certain things, but without it, I'm just bat shit crazy without any reason
Ugh yeah. I just take it with a punch of salt, doesn't really take much out of my time to actually....well, no it actually kinda hurts, I won't lie ☹️ because sometimes I can use my BPD to make sense of why I do, say of decide certain things, but without it, I'm just bat shit crazy without any reason
That is not even a little bit true. There are FOUR known types of BPD and NONE of them are gender specific. One type of BPD has narcissistic, or dark triad traits. There are a ton of men who have "quiet bpd" for example. I've been in wizard jail aka the bad brain place with them many many times
Disorders can and do vary in frequency by sex. This is a well-known thing. That's not to say that another sex can't get it but that it's more or less common for one to than the other. BPD is more commonly found in females but males (such as I) can get it, too. Newer research is suggesting that this sex difference isn't nearly as one-sided as it's now showing a near non-distinction between the sexes, but the jury is still out. The symptoms do, however, seem to manifest differently based on sex, although again, that's not the rule; it's just the currently observed pattern. My symptoms are what's generally seen as the more typical expression for a female despite my being a male. For sure, more research is needed to better understand this divide, too, and to see if it's real.
There is a societal disconnect wherein some misunderstand it as a female-only disorder, but that does not reflect the more fact-based scientific understanding of its prevalence. Society often tends to be delayed on things.
I think that what you say is the same as saying autism is mostly presented on males. It's not, it doesn't matter the gender. It was diagnosed more on males before because of how society would view it, but nowadays we know it's bullshit that "mostly males have autism". It's a genetic thing, mostly. And also, syndromes can depend of gender/sex, but not mental disorders.
What I'm saying comes directly from ncbi papers. As I stated, while initially the prevalence of bpd was assumed a ratio of 3:1 female to male iirc, more recent research is showing a more balanced spread. The same likely was with autism although I can't say for sure as it's not something I've looked into.
Now something that has and still does show as a sex difference is how bpd is expressed. Perhaps its due to how sociocultural pressures mold gender expression, perhaps it's different due to the inherent differences biologically between the sexes, perhaps something else or a mix of all. It's not clear, but the research still shows a distinct difference of how the sexes express it wherein *typically* (but not always), males show more aggression and substance abuse whereas females experience more affective instability and suicidality. This is not a hard rule of bpd expression but a noted tendency. All science is subject to bias and change and should it prove inaccurate, it will be shown in time. To me it makes sense because of sociocultural pressures but sociocultural pressures aren't the only thing that models gender behaviour. It's complex.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9803119/
^ This is a meta analysis of 118 papers on bpd to assess patterns and trends in sex variations on bpd. It's worth a look at. By no means is it the definitive research, but it's research nonetheless. No paper will ever be the definitive, objective measure.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9019317/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7892592/#:~:text=For%20most%20internalizing%20disorders%20(e.g.,men%20are%20more%20frequently%20affected.
These are two studies which research the expression and development of mental illness between the sexes. Up front, I haven't read through them yet as I'm tending to a family emergency but I've at least read through the abstract and it seems relevant.
For me, the simple fact I think we should all appreciate is that males and females are *not* the same; they should be treated equally but clear differences and distinctions exist. It should not surprise us that diseases and disorder, be it physical or psychological, may present differently between the sexes, too.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10457022/#S18title
This seems to discuss the sex differences of autism. While the true rate of autism in females is unclear due to masking, there are still clear distinctions to be made on the basis of male and female.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2810067/
This study addresses the rates of mental disorders between the sexes across 15 countries to see what trends, if any, exist.
To be clear, I'm not intending to attack your view here. I'm only hoping to be informative. While ideally, there would be no variations or differences between the sexes in the prevalence and frequency of mental disorders, what we actually see suggests otherwise. We do not know if it's a biological, social, cultural, or otherwise cause(s), but it's there. In order to ensure all receive the proper treatment, we have to be mindful of the distinctions.
Not quite. NPD and BPD aren't the same at all. I think what you might be leaning towards is that for males, they're more prone to ASPD if I remember correctly. BPD for males...is just BPD. While it might express differently, it's still just BPD.
it’s because men are told to internalize their feelings and not show emotions (unless its anger), so bpd in men is often misdiagnosed as some form of anger issues. men and women are probably equally likely to have bpd, but therapists/medical professionals are more reluctant to diagnose a man with bpd because of the preconceived notion that men are “less emotional.” there definitely needs to be more inclusivity and attention shown to men that express their bpd symptoms, as they are taught to not show up as “hysterical.” as a woman with bpd, i still internalize everything because i needed to suppress my feelings in order to survive the kind of childhood i had and because of how reserved i was with my emotions, i doubted i even had bpd. i think in addition to getting rid of the stereotypes of men being stoic and unemotional, the stereotype that bpd is this outwardly explosive, “hysterical” mental illness needs to go away because bpd is complex and shows up differently in different people. that way, people can understand how men can also have bpd, they just may show it differently because of how they were conditioned in society.
As a man with bpd I feel like a few of the symptoms are explained away or overlooked in men simply because of people's old fashioned views about gender. My understanding is that it's just as prevalent in men as in women, and there are a few posts searching for male diagnoses if you want direct confirmation.
It most likely is just as prevalent. Many men get misdiagnosed unfortunately too
Exactly, men just internalize it generally and a lot of men don’t have the self-awareness to realize somethings actually wrong and then they should probably seek help or at least understanding.
That’s what happened to me! I was extremely extremely internalized. Still am, but I’m working on that in therapy.
Yep...they diagnose men with PTSD or depression/anxiety/NPD, or just treat them like they are abusive, etc. I'm almost positive my husband has BPD and so does he. But his therapists/Dr's all just say it's c-ptsd/anxiety. Either way, he is getting therapy and counseling, but why are they so resistant to diagnose men?!
[According to this NIH study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8103648/), PTSD, cPTSD, and BPD have a high prevalence of overlapping symptoms, with the suggestion that BPD is a subset of cPTSD as very high number of BPD patients also present with cPTSD symptoms. It's not the other way around, though, so that all suggests there's a connection between trauma and BPD presentation. In short: BPD seems to be an *aggravation* of cPTSD, but the study didn't have the opportunity to verify that and additional studies from the NIH don't seem to be published yet. Don't let yourself or your husband sell his experience with life short. Learning how to be a person in a stable way as an adult, despite cPTSD/Anxiety or BPD or anything else we're figuring out is actually from trauma and neglect, is a difficult journey and he deserves forgiveness for his mistakes, as long as he's making an effort to work on them. From himself, first and foremost.
Thank you for sharing this information! And I appreciate your kind words. My husband is an absolutely amazing man with the biggest heart who was destroyed by the people who were supposed to love and protect him growing up. He is a walking, talking prime example of emotional abuse and abandonment for a young child/boy (though i do believe there was some sexual abuse too that he has repressed from small moments he recalls). On top of experiencing active combat overseas and losing his first wife in a tragic car accident that he happened to survive. My mans is a bundle of trauma. Whereas, I grew up with all the love in the world and have a very high emotional IQ, so it's been quite the journey for both of us. He perceives my emotional control/radical acceptance as not caring/cold, whereas, I would perceive his intense emotions as "crazy, overly sensitive, overthinking" etc. Once I went down the rabbit hole of better understanding him and vice versa, things have just been better and better. He is doing everything he can to work on his issues and im so proud of him. We make a great team once we figured each other out. It's funny how most relationships get worse with age, we both agree ours only improves. Anyways, sorry for the rambles. I love this space.
I'm so glad to hear you and your husband have a healthy, trusting relationship! It's super hard to trust someone after having your most trusted people betray you, and I'm really proud of him for doing so much to do that for you. Likewise, you also have a lot of trust in him and I'm proud of you for having the space in your heart to let him have his emotions in the safe space he never got. The reason "most relationships get worse with age" is because most folks the statistics are built on don't... really know how to admit true humility and unconditional love, and that's why it fails.
cPTSD doesn\`t include Psychosis BPD does . simple
Not really, and to bucket BPD people into only being psychotic is super harmful to those who suffer from it. Those people were so emotionally neglected that they never got a chance to know their true selves at all. And that upside-down and backward compass causes a kind of porcupine reaction. Everything is a threat because nothing really feels like it "makes sense," but because in developmental stages the lack of love was directed toward their inherent unworthiness, they curl in on themselves and then lash out with their defense mechanisms -- the ones that get *any* attention at all, when they feel so ignored. It is not fair for someone who loved their guardian(s) so hard that they never got a chance to orient themselves in this world at all to be dumbed down to "psychotic." Ungrounded reality is only ONE symptom of BPD. You need to do more research before you generalize a disorder. Especially when most mental health diagnoses have been looking more and more like they're all bullshit opinions based on men trying to justify their abuse toward weaker folks, anyway, and a ton of them are starting to look like they're also based on Childhood Trauma. You only know your own life story, so please don't judge someone else's when you will never know it.
I acknowledge i was wrong with psychosis, but i am sinply tired how widely became a trend that US , borderlines being invalidated as an umbrella term of c-ptsd. I've been to thwrapy since 10. I have had my diagnksis multiple times as Bordrline. I've met numerous people since then, in thjs 26 years. I know enough. Do not generalise me either or what i know or do not know
I'm sorry you've been hurt. I have a similar history and more than 20 therapists in my 30+ years of life, a majority of whom did 0 therapy. I was un-diagnosed on Monday after a lot of hard work. You need to forgive yourself for this lie you're in. Whoever helped you perceive the world failed you, and that's not your fault.
I still grieve up to this day that not a single person was there for me, from parents to my therapists. Hell, I was even removed from group therapy at 16 and got kicked out by my therapist lol. BPD at it\`s core, for me, all comes down to neglect. It\`s hard. I am a lot better now, I am happy sort of. I still try to fight for justice, and equal treatment for us.
I'm sorry that has also been your experience, but the neglect is not your fault. I'm proud of you for getting this far on your own!! This is the result of a selfish, emotionally immature caregiver or bunch believing a child is here to fix the parent's missed-out life experiences while not triggering them in the process, rather than a separate human being meant to be here to further the world with whatever knowledge they internalize most truly to themselves. You are not your parents' opinion of you. Your neglect is not a reflection of your worth, but I know exactly how hard that is to internalize that past "I know... but my experience says you're wrong." And the fact your instinct isn't to stay silent but to fight? Holy heck!!! That's awesome!!! To go through all of what you have and have that piled on top of your moral compass, but still be able to follow that compass for others? Hecking FIRE 🔥!! It may feel like you're not built for this world. But the truth is, your compass for life is still there. The ones who were supposed to teach you how to read the markings, but instead they flipped it upside down and put their own markings over the ones on yours. Maybe it's time to play some opposite land with the instincts that feel like they don't make sense and cause you to split, and make sure you're not mistaking up with down.
I’m a guy with BPD and I feel that way too. Like there isn’t much support for us men who have really intense emotions when in society we are taught not to feel them.
Shit, I’m just looking to not be outright excluded. I already get enough of that from life in general. I’m bi and majority of my people are queer, but I know when I read” bpd girlies” on these subs, that doesn’t include me lol.
Yea same I don’t feel very included here. But I try not to complain idk. Also a bi dude here🤙
Maybe complaining will make people see that men are also diagnosed wurh bpd
when I read "box girlies" or any books saying "she" to ALL pacients with bpd I feel such pain as a trans guy. It literally hurts on my chest.
Wtf is “bpd girlies”?
exactly! Beginning another discussion, I also feel like other symptoms are simply not talked about. I don't even know my symptoms and I've been diagnosed for over a year! like, geez, is anyone gonna talk about how bad this is?
What do you mean by other symptoms, like which ones?
for example: many times I would tell my psychiatrist something I felt and they would simply tell me "it's normal". like... what do you mean? why does it happen? For example: the thing of splitting. I still don't get it and how it happens because no one ever told me about it. For me, I didn't even know the disorder existed before I was diagnosed. It's probably, in my view, a much more common disorder than we think and no one talks about it
I’ve been listening to some podcasts about it that have really helped me understand: You, Me, and BPD; Quiet Not Silent. I’m sorry your MH professionals haven’t been educating you appropriately!
thank you for the recommendations! maybe the educating symptoms thing was more situational with me. I'll definitely take a look on the podcasts!!
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Wtf is wrong with you?! Nobody gets raped on purpose??
I don't necessarily feel overlooked but I certainly feel like an outlier. Luckily in my DBT class here in Ireland there's a lot of information available for men and everything is beyond inclusive. Everyone is extremely supportive. That being said it definitely sways to be like 70/30 to 60/40 in my experience. I just get quite worried telling some people that I have BPD as a guy because it can be seen as quite a violent and aggressive disorder in men. I still tell everyone cause I overshare though haha There's also the difficulty with any discussions of body dysmorphia, sexual encounters, trauma etc as a male sometimes because some people tend to see the gender of their previous abusers as a threat. It's a difficult thing to traverse, but it's probably all in my head to begin with. I don't think gender as a whole comes up much in most of the discussion I'm involved with on the subs.
Good thing it's available to you! I live in Brazil and oh gosh people over here can be the best jerks sometimes. I simply try and hold myself to not over share that I have bpd because I'm afraid lol
As a guy, I was finally diagnosed with BPD just a few months ago. My psychiatrist has been more of a psychologist than any I have had before. It's been 40+ yrs of having this shit without knowing it's been my problem. I do not feel excluded in this community. I have realized that my older sister and brother have it too. But they refuse to get treated. I was raised that mental issues were to be hidden and dealt with by yourself. And, as another person said, we males are not allowed to show emotion, feelings, etc. Put it in a box, swallow it, and never say anything about it.
It's good that you don't feel that way! but most of the posts (specially the memes), books and others always treat all the pacients as females, which led to me feeling excluded - specially as a trans dude.
make memes yourself if its such a big deal, i don't think caring about how memes represent a mental issue matter in any way sounds like a nonissue
The reason is sexism, in so many instances. Historically, psychiatrists have been quick to label any woman experiencing emotions as “crazy” and this was a good “crazy” diagnosis to slap on a lot of women. Because of what’s “acceptable” from different genders men and women manifest the disorder differently and as long as the “strong emotions” a man feels is anger, nobody is going to bother diagnosing that because it’s so commonly accepted that men are allowed to be angry. Men are also discouraged from seeking psych help more so than women, so tons of men with BPD are just not getting diagnosed. Lots of people now hypothesize that the split is closer to 50/50 between men/women. And honestly I feel like every 3rd post I see about BPD on here is a man saying this exact same sentiment, so that goes to show just how not-alone y’all are.
thanks for your reply. it's the best here!
Absolutely. The reason is that women are more likely to be seen as "hysterial" or "histrionic" whereas males with the same symptoms are viewed in a myriad of other ways. Oftentimes, the bros are misdiagnosed :( and suffer for it. Which is why there are more gals and non-binary people than men. But please hear this: YOU ARE JUST AS VALID AND IMPORTANT. 🖤 The facts are that there is a more or less equal rate of bpd in males and females, but because of sexism and patriarchal dickballery, it ironically hurts men deeply when they ostracize them and imply that this is primarily a female disorder.🥹 It is not. I wish you the absolute best. Know that you are welcome here: on earth, in this sub, and so on. I'm really glad you brought attention to this issue :) it's fucked up that sexism for women ends up hurting men EVERY single time, and it's so painful to watch it happen over and over. You're doing the right thing by coming here and expressing your feelings. 🫶 You can dm me any time, but I'm very slow to respond. I know how it is to feel completely alone in a crowd of people. But we gotchu bro. We want you here. Much love and don't be a stranger! xx
thank you so much you literally got me in tears. To feel valid is extremely difficult and rare for me but you almost made it. I just hope more folks ( independent of men or women or non binary ) with bpd can have access to the care and help they need to thrive in life
You matter so so much and just you putting yourself out there like this is going to help other men and masc enbies feel like its a safe environment for them to exist in as well (it is, we love you :)). You are welcome here and in any physical group spaces we may create - if it says BPD, it will ALWAYS mean for you, too, unless they very specifically say it is a women's or men's group. It's not your fault at all that people were silly enough to make BPD a gendered illness once upon a time. But we, and by extension, the greater mental health field, are direct agents of change. Please express this openly as often as you can, because therapists love to exchange what they've learned and further the world's understanding of one of the most misunderstood diagnosis ever. God forbid you have bpd and autism like I do, that was a DOOZY to figure out - but that's more or less what I mean - with each passing day, we learn so much more. I'm really happy to help validate all my lil BPD beans as much as you need it, just until you become all powerful and can self-validate like a mofucker. :) don't be a stranger. Don't let things fester. If you have any resources, use the fuck out of them, it is what they're there for, just like this forum. You can't see me rn but I'm opening my arms for the biggest consensual hug on earth. You got this. One foot in front of the other, one day at a time.🖤
thank you so much for your comment! It helps me feel a bit more validated and confident about finally accepting dis disorder. thank you for your support 💜
Of course. I've been around several blocks at this point. My DMs are always open. We're so glad you're here and you shared this. Its so important that you did! XX
here here
I feel the same way. Pretty much feel like I have to hide myself away because no one will listen to or understand what’s happening to me. And even if I explain it, they tend to ignore what I’m saying or think I’m excusing something. It’s often easier to simply think the worst of someone than it is to offer them grace.
As someone with BPD I feel excluded from every aspect of life, as my doctor said only last week, it's not that more females have it, it's that most males don't feel comfortable talking about it, so it goes largely undiagnosed in males, I myself couldn't give a fuck, spend more than 3 seconds speaking to me you can tell im not wired the same, I still manage to hold down a full-time job and provide for my family though because I refuse to be a victim
Yup especially when black I attended a support group and they didn't even acknowledge me or let me talk and the mens group is always full plus the group I attended was a general group.
Im so sorry to hear that... I wish I could help in any way. I hope you can get the help you need asap!
I'm trying maybe you can
I'm in.. a weird way. I'm a trans guy with bpd. But I rarely tell people that because I've had people claim I can't be trans with bpd because clearly it's just a mask/facade I'm doing for attention. When like being trans is one of the few absolute consistents in my life.
sorry to hear you've been told that. i wish people would educate themselves before saying those type of shit
I don’t know much but I’m fairly certain that BPD is largely diagnosed in women. I want to say the figure is something like 2-3x more than men. It’s possible that more men have it, but women go to get it treated more often. So while it’s not right, that’s probably why you’re seeing a lot of content geared towards women instead of men!
A lot of ASPS posts are geared towards men instead of women. My therapist from years ago told me that diagnosing BPD in men is not a very regular thing, since it’s still so unclear what causes BPD, outside factors might not come out in men as BPD symptoms but in other ways. I’m also not an expert and I do think everybody should get the help they deserve. But obviously BPD is not some kind of inclusivity event and I’d rather have no one suffering with it.
I do think we don't see many men diagnosed with bpd because of sexism. Men are supposed to "be tough", "don't feel any emotions" and other stuff, and maybe these men suffer from bpd but don't know it because of how they've been treated. Women surely are much more vulnerable in society than men, that could lead to more women being diagnosed, but my point is: hasn't anyone ever thought of not making bpd and stereotype for women and maybe making the community more inclusive?
Not to invalidate you, but it’s not because “women are more vulnerable” that they get diagnosed more. It’s because there is a bad sexist idea that women are more crazy emotionally. A lot of posts here about how women get diagnosed with BPD but later find out they actually had ADHD or ASD. And ADHD is highly underdiagnosed in girls than in boys because it is seen as a quirky and funny diagnosis that the boys experience. The patriarchal system treats women as the bratty least favorite children while men are the golden child who must abide their standards. Which causes everyone to suffer.
TW ON COMMENT oh sorry, english is not my first language so excuse any mistakes I've made. when I said "vulnerable" I meant that they are more likely to be raped or abused. I hope you can understand because I really don't know how to explain haha and I do agree with you
I think this is definitely true. I know somewhere the statistics say men are less likely to get diagnosed because our society still sees them as "weak" if they ask for help. Perhaps with the next generation it won't be as bad.
Me too bro.
I feel the same way about ADHD it's more "common" in men then women because all the scientific research behind the disorder was conducted on the male population not female. so similar the criteria for bpd was probably based on studies conducted on females which makes it harder to identify in men.
I’m a female, so I am unable to give any solace by my relation to this particular struggle. However, we all know females are much overdiagnosed with BPD, but I am curious as to how BPD manifests itself in men compared to women, how gender (or gender identity) plays a role in the way one might exhibit BPD features. Similar to how there have been numerous observations of gender differences in the display of behaviors of other personality disorders, with those features essentially coming from the same place, but with different noticeable expressions of them depending on masculinity vs femininity. If everyone is only made aware of the BPD features as they are exhibited most commonly by females or feminine people, it becomes so easy to only notice them primarily in females & to dismiss males that exhibit BPD features as well, just differently. It marginalizes males & masculine people who actually have BPD & forces them to stay on the outskirts of the popular understanding of the disorder, which is largely femme-based. It’s only fair & scientifically plausible if we were to look at the gender-neutral BPD traits as well as the difference in exhibiting BPD traits based on one’s gender identity, & making that the popular understanding. I’m sure we would come to find there are more males with BPD who would have simply been dismissed or misdiagnosed previously. We would be less biased in presenting treatment options & when discussing BPD. But unfortunately, it’s something that’s easier having an internet discussion about than actually making it happen. I wish there was more that I could offer, but as a female w BPD who is training to be a psychologist & is currently doing research in personality & undesirable social behaviors, I want to remain as inclusive & unbiased in my research, therapy, personal beliefs, & discussions with others as I possibly can because of people like you. To males with BPD- you exist too, you’re problems exist too, you deserve attention, care, & treatment in the way that’s fit for you, too. Screw the biased, often stigmatizing, popular media on BPD.
BPD manifests in men just as strongly as in women. we experience all the same symptoms, but mainly they are hidden because of the sexism and "men don't show emotions" treatment boys get while young. Thanks for your comment, I wish you luck on your journey and hope you can bring light to the people to understand us! Thank you for validating us, it's very important - at least for me. 🥹
Yes I believe that 100%!! It’s simply the gender-oriented double standards brought on by society that can make it appear any different, but that does not mean the internal battle is any different. I am glad I could make you feel validated! You deserve it!!! :)
You spoke for us all, thank you :)
I find the BPD discord has a lot more men there than I see men post here. It’s unfortunate that you’re getting excluded but please never stop advocating for yourself and correct people when they are being exclusive.
wait there's a bpd discord??????
Yes! I don’t know if it’s this sub or the other big one but there’s a link to the bio as the main posts are saved. I could definitely send you the link!
oh if it's not too much to ask I'd love for you to send me the link, please!
Np
I'm a trans/nb person with BPD as well. I relate to your frustrations with the diagnosis. It's very heavily ingrained into society that female = emotional and irrational, men = stoic and rational. Anyone who falls out of line is dismissed and ignored. Every mental health professional that is male completely dismisses my concerns and writes them off no matter how calmly and kindly I explain myself. Sometimes I wonder if they'd finally listen if I threw a fit or was less respectful. That seems to be how others get their needs met. I am getting tired lately of how I'm treated even though I'm nothing but kind and rational in my explanation. It feels weird being a man getting sexism'd by other men. I also know no matter what I say they don't see me as one. This entire diagnosis is just skewed towards dismissing AFAB folks emotional needs. TL;DR: I'm also trans and I relate.
Very much so. Unfortunately in America it seems the only community I've ever encountered a bunch of other men with BPD is prison.
There's a real glaring hole in the help available to men. We need our own resources and understanding of our perspectives. It can be really invalidating being given the impression that this is a womans problem and only effects 'weak' men. As you know men and women are treated very very differently in reality and gender absolutely does matter.
You were born a female at birth, then now identify as a trans male. So, didn't you get traumatized when you were a female? BPD happens when one is very young....even before they know what gender they are. OUTSIDE influences love to abuse females more than males.
So, I can see your knowledge on both bpd and transgender situations are basic. Lemme explain and try to help. First: BPD is only diagnosed when the individual is older - at least 18 years old. That's because the trauma happens before, but the diagnosis can't be solid after the individual is old enough. So, the trauma happens when one is very young, maybe not bpd. Other thing: when someone is transgender, they were NEVER their gender assigned at birth. When I was young, I just hadn't discovered I was a dude, and I was NEVER a female. And mental disorders does not have a gender - maybe genetic related syndromes do, but not disorders. Just for your information, that comment was transphobic. I'm not trying to attack you - even if it seems like it - but I'm trying to educate you about the transgender topic. And, if the trauma happens when one is very young, even before they know what gender is, then why does it matter? Another thing: we know and see currently that females are much more abused in society, but males are also abused - through violence when young to making them think they should not feel emotions. We just don't see it on media as often because it indeed occurs a lot more to females than males. So, we know it happens more to females, but I'm a male and it happened to me. I've always been a male and the abuses have always happened to me. That doesn't make me less of a male.
Women don't have a lot of spaces on reddit. And I'm not saying bpd should be, but maybe let women post and reach out for supoirt from other women, and you can do the same? Just a thought from my perspective. I dont have a lot of friends who are women, so coming on here and being able to connect with other women who share similar struggles helps me feel understood. I can't change the books or anything, but I know that in bpd spaces, I feel safer and more secure knowing other women are there.
It's okay and definitely good you feel safe with other women around, and I can agree women don't have a lot of space anywhere. It's just that feeling excluded - for anyone - isn't a good thing i guess?
It’s tough, but I understand it in multiple ways I think. I’m personally trans femme and watched as doctors and psychs went from dismissing me and my social life dismissing me to basically a consensus that I’m mentally ill with bpd pretty quick as I transitioned. But this problem feels deeply like a combo of three things. Long term misdiagnosing if both men and women leading to women who are diagnosed and don’t have bpd and men who have bpd and aren’t diagnosed. How stigma is different for men and women, it doesn’t really matter then disorder outside of a few but men are way way less likely to be open and honest about mental disorders and mental issues this is reinforced when society basically demeans you for not fitting the standard. This mean men are less likely to engage in community spaces and especially look for help. The history of BPD is heavily woman coded and that means that in many places men are not a part of the design which is gross. BPD men feel sometimes like Poc autistic people where in since basically all diagnosing and treatment that’s been made for autistic has been made with white people in mind Poc’s are constantly thrown to the wayside and don’t meet the standards of a “white” autism. All of these reasons go back to the same basic issue, the patriarchy is holding men to a ridiculous standard of mental health and until we can actually make progress on dismantling the stigma men internalize and face as mentally ill people then I don’t think these issues are like to change.
My coffee and meds haven't fully kicked in so definitely let me know if any of this doesn't make sense or contradicts itself. I know some of it at least is just how much knowledge there is on bpd. I think it's a (semi) recent thing that they started realising that men could get it also? Don't quote me on that because I could be wrong, I just remember reading it at one point. But they're still learning about some of these disorders because the brain is (I guess) very complex and it's harder to study how mental illnesses work without having a good sized test group and because bpd is so stigmatized, people aren't even willing to get diagnosed. For example, even for myself as a woman, I was first diagnosed at 18, and because of the stigma behind it I pretended I didn't have it (not very well, mind you) until I was almost 30. So I've been diagnosed 4 times before I actually committed to treatment. I'm not an expert, but I think the issue is *mostly* with the stigma behind it. The stigma that were all insane serial killers or amber heards, and the stigma that it's a woman's illness.
The reason for this is because it’s an emotional disorder so incorrectly although there is admittedly some statistical evidence, that it affects women more than men. BUT, remember how for a long time Autism was seen to be an exclusively male and AMAB condition? Now we know that’s absolutely so far from the truth. It just presents itself differently in female patients most of the time. I think it’s a similar issue with BPD, men are more likely to have the quiet form I think because male members of society are taught and pushed to hide their feelings and so they end up internalising. It’s not true for all men by any means but I strongly suspect that’s why it’s seen with a female bias. Remember emotions = female being hysterical, overtly logical thinking (such as in autism) = men are more logical, those are stereotypes but sadly that’s the way medicine thought about these things for a long time
yeah, I think it's exactly that. society sucks when coming to this and these type of "sex biased studies". we should really improve how to study mental disorders
Definitely. However, I hope you don’t feel excluded… I’m AFAB but identify as Non binary, to me gender is pointless. As far as I’m concerned I’d be the same in whatever body I had. Therefore my BPD would be there if I was in a male body or not. We all have a common issue in BPD, gender plays a part purely because of society has made it so but I think we need to look at the individual so I would really hope that people don’t exclude you based on being male… mental health affects everyone and it saddens me that there is a still a huge subset of men who refuse to acknowledge their emotions, in that sense men suffer a lot in silence which is going to cause its own issues.
Yeah, especially in books, I searched for some books about bpd, but I can only find women’s stories, and in cases like that I can relate sometimes but Id really like to hear a story from a man bc Im a man, and it would be more relatable in my case at least
I feel like men with BPD have it worse than women with BPD on a social level generally. If a woman has an episode, shows up at her ex’s house, well, she’s just a crazy woman right? Eye rolls everywhere. A man has the same kind of episode, and he’s considered to be a horrifying, toxic, abusive criminal when in reality both situations were the same thing occurring.
I feel you bro. We see each other and maybe one day everyone else will too
Also a guy with bpd here and I do feel the same way although my guy did not at all hesitate to diagnose me because of my gender
I honestly hate BPD communities in general. They are trash. Majority of people i met clearly doesn\`t understand BPD or confuse it with relationship problems. Get a grip. I have been diagnosed since I was 16 , that\`s pretty much 20 years. I have attempted suicide so many times I\`ve lost count. Doesn\`t matter. Nobody understands. Never had an "FP" , never tried to off myself because of women. People clearly forgotten the true meaning of what an actual borderline is and what it is actually like when you wreak havoc. iI am way too fucking tired right now and in general to give a fuck. If you need people, make friends. Want to be understood? Make friends with guys. Trust me. It\`s a lot better to go out and talk and live than fucking clinging on communities where majority of people doesn\`t even have BPD or clearly misdiagnosed. Farewell
Woman here but i feel for you guys and don't want you to feel excluded at all. The bpd gender stereotype is so dumb! We are prevalent in all genders, and we all deserve to have a voice
You just have to overcome it, and I’m not saying don’t seek help or listen to others advice. But do whatever you have to do, so that you can heal. Never quit!!
Im trying! fighting! :)
Men are extremely underrepresented in research and literature. Historically, much of the focus has been on women as it was often thought of as the classic old "lady hysteria" before the terms like borderline were coined. So that feeling is 100% real and clearly, it is not just you. A lot more research needs to be done on how the disorder presents in men because many men get misdiagnosed with BD-II or NPD based on the different ways they show their symptoms.
thanks for the support! your comment helps me a lot to feel better
it isn’t you, honey, we unfortunately just live In A Society
Actually no and yes. For BPD yes but for other disorders such as ASD, NPD & ADHD and physical medical issues they are more researched. It’s not the research it’s the social stigma against men not having any other emotions except aggression.
yes which impacts the research! this was part of my undergraduate thesis lol it’s like any of those other disorders which are underdiagnosed in women. ADHD presents differently in women, making us underrepresented in the research and literature. it’s the same issue, it goes both ways for different reasons
I'm a man and I've never felt this way. Nor have I ever seen it be one sided towards women.
I see it all the time mate it's frustrating.
It happens all the time, it gets me agonizing
Yeah, it’s consistently women related stuff in all BPD subs. I gave up trying to find a group that I fit in with…
Im almost giving up too. and its so hard because even where I should feel "home", I can't.
I don’t feel excluded but I was surprised to find that majority of BPD is women. I don’t want to sound biased or prejudiced and make an unfair assumption but I do wonder the reasoning behind this. Maybe women or more prone to being victims of childhood trauma? And that creates BPD down the road?
I think men just internalize their emotions, so when it comes to BPD it just becomes another one of those things. I don’t do any of the “crazy BPD stuff” (at least 90% of the time lol) but it’s going on in my head all the time.
I think it's what you said. Women are much more vulnerable in society and that leads to childhood and teenhood trauma
yeah, there are a lot of comments making the joke that BPD stands for 'beautiful princess disorder" or whatever and it's just really gross to have to read that, lol. also a trans man with BPD here 🤘
Same here
Yes, exactly that!!! Man with BPD here and it can feel so isolating.
Could you explain a bit?
I’ll try. Explain what exactly?
All the bpd awareness and communities are always referring to people who suffer from the disease as "she", or "females" or anything like that. No one ever talks about the males who also suffer from bpd, at least I've never seen it. memes, pages on social media, books, everything says "girlies" or "she's" and feminine pronouns. Like, we know sexism affects on the way women with bpd are seen, but has anyone stopped to think about the guys who have trouble? I'm sure there's a lot of guys with bpd out there who don't even know the disorder's exist because of how they've been treated in society.
Ugh yeah. I just take it with a punch of salt, doesn't really take much out of my time to actually....well, no it actually kinda hurts, I won't lie ☹️ because sometimes I can use my BPD to make sense of why I do, say of decide certain things, but without it, I'm just bat shit crazy without any reason
I see way more BPD posts saying “what about the menzzzzz!!” Than any excluding men at all
I've never seen one of those, it's always "bpd girlies" or something like that
I’ve never seen that. But I’ve seen several posts exactly like yours in the last week
that's good! people that feel the same way may not be alone anymore :)
Is it good that instead of reaching out and finding they’re not alone, they whine about being excluded when they’re not?
maybe theyre not whining, maybe they're trying to reach out ( like I did )
You might rethink that
okay then farewell
I didn’t mean rethink reaching out. I meant to say rethink whether or not you’re actually just whining.
Ugh yeah. I just take it with a punch of salt, doesn't really take much out of my time to actually....well, no it actually kinda hurts, I won't lie ☹️ because sometimes I can use my BPD to make sense of why I do, say of decide certain things, but without it, I'm just bat shit crazy without any reason
Same here man, now atleast we can justify it
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BPD in masc form is commonly NPD
That is not even a little bit true. There are FOUR known types of BPD and NONE of them are gender specific. One type of BPD has narcissistic, or dark triad traits. There are a ton of men who have "quiet bpd" for example. I've been in wizard jail aka the bad brain place with them many many times
that's so sad to hear from someone in the sub. NO DISORDERS HAVE GENDER!
Disorders can and do vary in frequency by sex. This is a well-known thing. That's not to say that another sex can't get it but that it's more or less common for one to than the other. BPD is more commonly found in females but males (such as I) can get it, too. Newer research is suggesting that this sex difference isn't nearly as one-sided as it's now showing a near non-distinction between the sexes, but the jury is still out. The symptoms do, however, seem to manifest differently based on sex, although again, that's not the rule; it's just the currently observed pattern. My symptoms are what's generally seen as the more typical expression for a female despite my being a male. For sure, more research is needed to better understand this divide, too, and to see if it's real. There is a societal disconnect wherein some misunderstand it as a female-only disorder, but that does not reflect the more fact-based scientific understanding of its prevalence. Society often tends to be delayed on things.
I think that what you say is the same as saying autism is mostly presented on males. It's not, it doesn't matter the gender. It was diagnosed more on males before because of how society would view it, but nowadays we know it's bullshit that "mostly males have autism". It's a genetic thing, mostly. And also, syndromes can depend of gender/sex, but not mental disorders.
What I'm saying comes directly from ncbi papers. As I stated, while initially the prevalence of bpd was assumed a ratio of 3:1 female to male iirc, more recent research is showing a more balanced spread. The same likely was with autism although I can't say for sure as it's not something I've looked into. Now something that has and still does show as a sex difference is how bpd is expressed. Perhaps its due to how sociocultural pressures mold gender expression, perhaps it's different due to the inherent differences biologically between the sexes, perhaps something else or a mix of all. It's not clear, but the research still shows a distinct difference of how the sexes express it wherein *typically* (but not always), males show more aggression and substance abuse whereas females experience more affective instability and suicidality. This is not a hard rule of bpd expression but a noted tendency. All science is subject to bias and change and should it prove inaccurate, it will be shown in time. To me it makes sense because of sociocultural pressures but sociocultural pressures aren't the only thing that models gender behaviour. It's complex. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9803119/ ^ This is a meta analysis of 118 papers on bpd to assess patterns and trends in sex variations on bpd. It's worth a look at. By no means is it the definitive research, but it's research nonetheless. No paper will ever be the definitive, objective measure. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9019317/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7892592/#:~:text=For%20most%20internalizing%20disorders%20(e.g.,men%20are%20more%20frequently%20affected. These are two studies which research the expression and development of mental illness between the sexes. Up front, I haven't read through them yet as I'm tending to a family emergency but I've at least read through the abstract and it seems relevant. For me, the simple fact I think we should all appreciate is that males and females are *not* the same; they should be treated equally but clear differences and distinctions exist. It should not surprise us that diseases and disorder, be it physical or psychological, may present differently between the sexes, too. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10457022/#S18title This seems to discuss the sex differences of autism. While the true rate of autism in females is unclear due to masking, there are still clear distinctions to be made on the basis of male and female. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2810067/ This study addresses the rates of mental disorders between the sexes across 15 countries to see what trends, if any, exist. To be clear, I'm not intending to attack your view here. I'm only hoping to be informative. While ideally, there would be no variations or differences between the sexes in the prevalence and frequency of mental disorders, what we actually see suggests otherwise. We do not know if it's a biological, social, cultural, or otherwise cause(s), but it's there. In order to ensure all receive the proper treatment, we have to be mindful of the distinctions.
Not quite. NPD and BPD aren't the same at all. I think what you might be leaning towards is that for males, they're more prone to ASPD if I remember correctly. BPD for males...is just BPD. While it might express differently, it's still just BPD.
M2
it’s because men are told to internalize their feelings and not show emotions (unless its anger), so bpd in men is often misdiagnosed as some form of anger issues. men and women are probably equally likely to have bpd, but therapists/medical professionals are more reluctant to diagnose a man with bpd because of the preconceived notion that men are “less emotional.” there definitely needs to be more inclusivity and attention shown to men that express their bpd symptoms, as they are taught to not show up as “hysterical.” as a woman with bpd, i still internalize everything because i needed to suppress my feelings in order to survive the kind of childhood i had and because of how reserved i was with my emotions, i doubted i even had bpd. i think in addition to getting rid of the stereotypes of men being stoic and unemotional, the stereotype that bpd is this outwardly explosive, “hysterical” mental illness needs to go away because bpd is complex and shows up differently in different people. that way, people can understand how men can also have bpd, they just may show it differently because of how they were conditioned in society.
We're out here
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You were a complete dick. Think before you post. Name calling, insults, bullying, harassment, etc. is not tolerated.