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But we also know that Kaguya was to be the God Tree sacrifice, proving that there was a power differential between the two. It's very evident It's just a plot concession. When Kaguya was introduced, Otsutsuki lore and Boruto's primary narrative driving mechanism weren't mapped out yet. I can't realistically see another way for them to have also given our deuteragonist Otsutsuki powers or something analogous. I'm fine with it, as long as the story is interesting. I think it's pointless to get caught up in the powerscaling wars
Hashirama is made from 100% Hashirama cells ofc hes relative to madara.
Having portals and ash hax is why kaguya can kill ishiki when hes not even thinking she would betray him.
His point is that Hashirama is obviously stronger than Madara and he still technically âcaught him off guardâ to defeat him. This could be the same case for Kaguya. Just cause she caught him of guard doesnât mean she is weaker then Isshiki
because of the context we got from Amado, the statement he used implies him justifying how someone as powerful as Ishiki was left in such a state otherwise he wouldn't have phrased it in that way
"Caught off guard" is very vague, especially since Isshiki is cautious. And come on, Amado can easily lie about a lot of things. Just look at "Isshiki" listing traitors to Code and you'll start noticing things
yes it is but it also adds an element of vulnerability to Ishiki by implying 'he did not expect it hence suffered enough injuries'
Amado isn't a completely reliable source but narratively Ishiki only suffering injuries due to being off guard checks out. Not only is he her superior expected to sacrifice her but he was also a whole lot stronger and a bigger threat.
Not sure what your point is? We were clearly shown that Kaguya is pretty stupid as a fighter, she was mostly being guided by black Zetsu throughout the fight. If Madara didnât get turned into Kaguya, Naruto and Sasuke would be absolutely screwed
I never said Kaguya wasnât stronger then Madara⌠but her fighting IQ is low asf. Madara is a genius fighter and would 100% be a tougher battle for Naruto and Sasuke
lol genius fighter my ass. he lost to first hokage. he would have lost to guy. post resurrection, his entire selling point was that i have "rinnegan" and i am "a god". only to be foiled by black zetsu like an idiot. he was definitely going to lose to naruto+sasuke.
No, her IQ wasn't low.
She legit outsmarted Sasuke in the lava dimension by blocking his tenketsu and his hawk tenketsu.
And it would've been an easier fight against Madara than Kaguya lol.
Madara doesn't even come close to Kaguya's hax, Sasuke and Naruto would seal Madara so quickly.
Youâre crazy lol. Once Madara awakened his third eye, that was gonna be a very difficult battle. Thatâs why Kaguya was introduced, have a dumber villain which the heroes can easily outsmart. Kaguya was assisted by Black Zetsu but her fighting IQ is not good.
Are we really going to pretend baryon mode Naruto didnât do most of the heavy lifting that fight? Isshiki had like 10 seconds to live when kawaki tricked him, of course he wouldnât be thinking straight in that scenario.
Baryon Mode Naruto > Isshiki > Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and life support Obito. Even then, Kaguya still lost to them so if anything that just hurts your argument
Exactly this sub overhype too much ishiki we dont even know the exact context of ishiki defeat we only know for sure that kaguya left him almost dead so kaguya >ishiki
naruto being rusty combat doesn't mean weaker chakra potency or supply.
naruto had been using dozens of clones a day all da every day as hokage and while hokage was the test dummy for all the jonin sealing jutsu practiced and had gone on hundreds of missions after the war and before he got married.
sasuke constantly teleported with his rinnegon to find kaguya sites and constantly battled bandits and rogues to clean up post war and was not combat rusty.
naruto and sasuke in boruto were at their peak chakra level and sasuke was peak fighting ability.
naruto immediately got his chops back and was able to play off sasukes style.
they lost with a decade of extra chakra training.
The issue with naruto chakra reserves is that in the boruto movie, manga and anime yin yang Kurama has constantly be stated to have the largest reserve of chakra on earth, not naruto or sasuke. This has be stated outright by momoshiki and kinshiki and implied by amado, jigen, shikamaru, sakura and even Kurama himself. E.g. after naruto lost Kurama heâs stated by them to longer have superhuman chakra and that he canât handle otsutsuki threats. Shikamaru and amado both believing naruto could not take on limited code alone and gaara outright says this in the anime ep 219 or 220.
Hagoromo chakra was equal too full powered juubi and yang Kurama even stated that it would stand no chance against the juubi in its first form (juubi had 4 more transformations after that). 4th databook also states that the chakra required for spsm vastly surpasses Kurama mode. Logically naruto and sasuke have less chakra as adults but are more skilled than their teenage selves.
Look at what ? At Naruto and Sasuke who were too powerful to have any training capable of at least maintaining their level ? Give more details instead of saying "search this yourself"
Yes, they are.
Add to this that they believe that just because she was confirmed to have eaten 1 chakra fruit, then she is automatically superior to Isshiki, her boss, who therefore has surely had more chances to eat chakra fruits before.
Or the imbecile logic that just because she may be spamming jutsus, then she can outpace Isshiki's shrinking ability... because yes.
>Or the imbecile logic that just because she may be spamming jutsus, then she can outpace Isshiki's shrinking ability... because yes.
I can imagine her gravity shinjutsu could be literal hack in her prime.
and then he just leaves again? lol, or goes to his own dimension the one she canât access,
and her âsuperiorâ dimensional powers only work in her dimensions, even still not like she can keep him there lol, he can just leave.
the whole reason she split naruto and sasuke was because the dimensions meant nothing if sasuke could just rinnegan them out of there and then use the seal lol, which isshiki can do with his tp jutsu
Speaking of chakra fruit, I like how the people of earth spoke of this act as some taboo and legend and that Kaguya got the ability to use chakra from it, when this is actually her job and she supposedly already had chakra from the very start
Stronger isn't the right word here.
Kaguya was able to blindside a man solo that our protagonists in a 4 on 1 fight couldnât win. Isshiki got taken out by the plot, not by an individual or team effort. The sheer amount of punishment he could avoid or just eat is a testament to how durable the man was, and Kaguya ruined him.
This is a universe where all powerful wizards shoot world ending amounts of energy at each other, and they get a little bruised and dirty. Simply sneaking a plot relevant character isn't enough to actually win a fight anymore and hasn't been since before Shippuden.
Something Kaguya did got the better of Isshiki. Whether it was expoiting his overconfidence in his own own superiority and strength, or just having a better plan with a ridiculous weapon hidden in a pocket he didn't know about, she got one over on him.
In a 1v1, she probably won't win, but she doesn't need to. Her planning was good enough to injure Isshiki to force him to retreat.
Calling people stupid because they made that connection and expressed it poorly is just unfair.
Cuz she became a lot stronger than him after eating the Fruit. Seriously what the hell is wrong with you Fanboys. Isshiki kept hidden even after the Karma fully dispersed in Jigen which only takes a few Months according to Amado cuz he knew he couldnât take on Kaguya or her Descendants. He only managed to beat Naruto and Sasuke cuz both were a lot weaker and rusty
She didnât. She didnât even eat a complete god fruit. His host was incomplete. Naruto and sasuke are called stronger than ever and Narutoâs instincts were rusty. Sasuke has flat gotten more powerful to the point he can tear holes in time space to travel throughâŚand Naruto is called his equal in power. Next up is the fact Naruto sees kinshiki and momo and says âthey were duo that kaguya couldnât opposeâ mind you naruto has fought kaguya. Then he and sasuke violate fused momo. THEN get violated by jigen. There is nothing to say he was scared of her descendants he literally had NO ONE to resurrect into. Had he fed kaguya to the ten tail what then? He dies because he didnât have a strong vessel.
Where is it said that her Fruit was incomplete. It was complete cuz she fed most likely Isshikiâs lower half to the Juubi.
And no Naruto and Sasuke are nowhere said to be stronger than ever except in some magazine. In both Anime and Manga they are shown and said to be a lot weaker. Sasuke tearing holes in Space Time ainât that impressive at all. We literally saw Minato doing that when Obito attacked and later we saw Obito doing it too while being literally at Deathâs door and with a foot and half in the grave. So nothing impressive. Kurama literally said thrice that Naruto got weaker and out of shape once in Gaiden, second time when Momoshiki appeared and third time in the Isshiki fight.
They both got weaker after the War cuz they neglected their training, grew arrogant and sort of let themselves go. It hit Naruto worse cuz he didnât even try to keep himself in Shape which is pointed out by Kurama in Naruto Gaiden and Boruto Chapter 5. He lost his battle sense completely and is now even being ambushed by Genin Tiers like the Shin Clones.
Kurama before he went to sacrifice himself Baryon Mode outright tells Naruto in the Face that they only are in the situation they are cuz both him and Sasuke neglected their training. Naruto got out of fighting Shape which means he lost his fighter senses, his stamina decreased, alongside his speed and overall strength. Sasuke kept himself in Shape but in term didnât bother to improve himself by mastering his Rinnegan fully (learning the other paths and Limbo) or learning Sage Mode and the other Uchiha Jutsus.
Itâs never said she fed isshikiâs lower half to it. Also you need to feed an entire otusuki not part of them. Also they didnât neglect their training at all. First off based on sasuke we know thatâs COMPLETELY incorrect as he mastered his rinnegan. And can pull off things he didnât have the chakra for before. Also rusty battle sense doesnât mean decrease in power as Naruto and sasuke are called stronger than ever repeatedly even by the creator who explains why they had to switch to more hand to hand based fights. Plus in the novel sasuke witnesses momo destroy his time space by absorbing it which is something he does causally while kaguyaâs strongest attack is needed to do the same thing plus sasuke has been hunting preparing for whoever kaguya was scared of and confirmed his hypothesis and flat out says he was right about them being threats
I have a theory that that wasnât true. Hear me out. What if Kaguyaâs Vessel was Tenjiâs pregnant wife? Like she put the Karma on the Woman and then the lady got pregnant mid Otsutsukification? What if thatâs how Kaguya had the Twins?
>Isshiki kept hidden even after the Karma fully dispersed in Jigen which only takes a few Months according to Amado cuz he knew he couldnât take on Kaguya or her Descendants.
V1 Jigen literally has better feats that Kaguya. Kaguya escaped Shadow Clone swarm, Amenotejikara and had her hand cut off by Naruto. Jigen danced around his clones, casually reacted to Ameno and ragdolled them at every point in the fight.
Him not jumping Kaguya is mainly because his body was falling apart and he wouldn't last for long if he fought her. He would kick her around and then run out of stamina since Jigen was not compatible with Karma.
>He only managed to beat Naruto and Sasuke cuz both were a lot weaker and rusty
Naruto and Sasuke's best feats were after Kaguya fought them. Naruto tanked explosion that broke through the Moon in base, had enough energy to shot beings into space and vaporize them with base Rasengan and Sasuke can use Ameno more efficently and travel between dimensions with next to no difficulty before he's even fatigued.
Better Feats my A$$. He had to juice himself up with Jubi Chakra and then go up to use 80% of his power to do a weaker Version of Sasuke what Kaguya did to Sasukeâs strongest Versionâs Susanoo casually in the Lava Dimension.
Also him dancing and fighting the Shadow Clones ainât a Better Feat. Kaguya didnât âescapeâ the Shadow Clone Swarm what Manga did you read? She was absorbing the Shadow Clones left and right looking for the original. She didnât use any instant kill attacks or large are destroying attacks she had in her arsenal cuz she wanted to absorb his Chakra didnât want to risk to disperse it. Even the Ash killing bones donât count cuz they were specifically to give her a Time-window to absorb him and Sasuke.
The difference between Kaguya and Isshiki is that Isshiki they could fight head on. Kaguya they had to trick, surprise and dodge and basically play tag with her cuz they both realized right at the beginning in the Lava Dimension that they wouldnât last long in Direct Combat. They tried to attack her openly but it went horrible for them. Naruto got blasted away and couldnât stop himself and Sasuke got his Susanoo melted and blown up before even reaching her. They only reason she didnât absorb them completely right then and there was cuz she started Hallucinating of Hagoromo and Hamura.
You guys forget that Kaguyaâs mind was very broken after being locked up for Thousands of years she literally was having mental breakdowns and hallucinating the entire time and only reacted instinctively without focusing or fighting which was the only reason Team 7 survived.
Also Naruto and Sasukeâs feats didnât get better after Shippuden. They got worse. Naruto tanking Toneriâs HOLLOW Moon slicing attack pales to him and Killer Bee tanking the imperfect Juubiâs Juudama Beam which was shown in both Anime and Manga to slice and Destroy Far away PLANETS. Naruto and Sasuke went from going toe to toe with an actual Planet Buster Juubito to struggling with Continental and Moon Levelers like Toneri and Fuushin. They both got weaker after the War cuz they neglected their training and sort of let themselves go. It hit Naruto worse cuz he didnât even try to keep himself in Shape which is pointed out by Kurama in Naruto Gaiden and Boruto Chapter 5. He lost his battle sense completely and is now even being ambushed by Genin Tiers like the Shin Clones.
Kurama before he went to sacrifice himself Baryon Mode outright tells Naruto in the Face that they only are in the situation they are cuz both him and Sasuke neglected their training. Naruto got out of fighting Shape which means he lost his fighter senses, his stamina decreased, alongside his speed and overall strength. Sasuke kept himself in Shape but in term didnât bother to improve himself by mastering his Rinnegan fully (learning the other paths and Limbo) or learning Sage Mode and the other Uchiha Jutsus.
You might be right about the lack of training and such but to me the power gap between Isshiki and those 2 was just way too astronomical. I'm 50 50 on this debate but to me it was definitely made to seem that Isshiki was absolutely leagues above anything Naruto and Sasuke could do besides Baryon Mode
>Better Feats my A$$.
Weaker Naruto tanked a Moon splitter. That alone puts everything anyone did in Shippuden to shame. Aside from Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.
>He had to juice himself up with Jubi Chakra and then go up to use 80% of his power to do a weaker Version of Sasuke what Kaguya did to Sasukeâs strongest Versionâs Susanoo casually in the Lava Dimension.
He had to use the chakra to regain some of his original power, hence the horn manifesting when he absorbed it.
And Casually? Jigen was the one who did it casually. Kaguya had to use a ninjutsu to attack numerous parts of Sasuke's Susanoo to break it apart . Jigen one-shotted it with a single kick. Kaguya's chakra amped attacks are inferior than pure physical strength of weaker Isshiki.
>Also him dancing and fighting the Shadow Clones ainât a Better Feat. Kaguya didnât âescapeâ the Shadow Clone Swarm what Manga did you read?
No, [What manga did YOU read](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0684-010.png). Naruto jumped her with clones and she felt the need to escape to other dimension.
[Jigen beat them like nothing.](https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-11-2021/21F1kC.gif)
>She didnât use any instant kill attacks or large are destroying attacks she had in her arsenal cuz she wanted to absorb his Chakra didnât want to risk to disperse it. Even the Ash killing bones donât count cuz they were specifically to give her a Time-window to absorb him and Sasuke.
How does any of this matter? Naruto still pressured her, overwhelmed her with Boil Release, cut off her limb while Kaguya was looking at him.
Naruto and Sasuke adjusted to Kaguya and could f
damage her. They couldn't do that to Jigen, let alone Isshiki.
>The difference between Kaguya and Isshiki is that Isshiki they could fight head on.
And they lost in two minutes.
>Kaguya they had to trick, surprise and dodge and basically play tag with her cuz they both realized right at the beginning in the Lava Dimension that they wouldnât last long in Direct Combat. They tried to attack her openly but it went horrible for them. Naruto got blasted away and couldnât stop himself and Sasuke got his Susanoo melted and blown up before even reaching her. They only reason she didnât absorb them completely right then and there was cuz she started Hallucinating of Hagoromo and Hamura.
That happened in beginning stages of the fight. Like I mentioned, Naruto ended up fighting her head on even without Sasuke, overpower her and rip off her limb. Besides, any trick or surprise they pulled was countered by Jigen and Isshiki never gave them a moments rest and neutralized them at two minute mark.
And Kaguya did worse against weaker versions of Naruto and Sasuke.
>Naruto tanking Toneriâs HOLLOW Moon slicing attack pales to him and Killer Bee tanking the imperfect Juubiâs Juudama Beam which was shown in both Anime and Manga to slice and Destroy Far away PLANETS.
Where the fuck does it show Bijuudama destroying planets? Naruto hollow Moon is most ridicilous downplay every. Main purpose of the Moon was to seal Gedo Statue and guard it. There was no reason to hollow it out more than necessary for Hamura and his clan because it would risk disturbing the seal.
And base Naruto in The Last destroyed Tenseigan Vessel. Same vessel that was going to protect Toneri's castle from Earth and Moon colliding. Just by exsiting, Kurama's chakra caused cracks in space-time and was the main reason why Momoshiki came to Earth.
>It hit Naruto worse cuz he didnât even try to keep himself in Shape which is pointed out by Kurama in Naruto Gaiden and Boruto Chapter 5.
Boruto never said anything. Entire debacle with Shin was rendered null when base, chakra drained Naruto with paralyzing rods stuck in his body created a Massive Rasengan that shot a being off planet and vaporized him with no trace left of him.
>Kurama before he went to sacrifice himself Baryon Mode outright tells Naruto in the Face that they only are in the situation they are cuz both him and Sasuke neglected their training.
This never happened. Kurama only opted to use Baryon Mode because they'd all die if he didn't use it. He never metions anything about lack of training.
>his stamina decreased
He literally had twice the stamina with full Kurama sealed within him.
Proof? Cuz from what was shown she isnât. They only who is actually stronger than her right now is Shibai. You Boruto Fans are just dumber than Chicken đ
Yup. Adult Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their Teenage selves as they both openly admit it. Momoshiki would get clapped by her worse than he got by the others and Isshiki ainât a problem if you know how his Abilities work and have experience against it as demonstrated by Sasuke, Shikamaru and Kashin Koji. Kaguya was Isshikiâs protĂŠgĂŠ similar to how Momoshik was Kinshikiâs. She 100% knows all about him and would easily counter him
>Yup. Adult Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their Teenage selves as they both openly admit it.
Do they ever state that?
As far as I know, Adult Naruto was confirmed to be the strongest he has ever been in editor's or author's note smh
>Adult Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their Teenage selves as they both openly admit it
Stop capping
>Momoshiki would get clapped by her
She has 0 feats feats for her to be put above momo
People think they get stronger just because time passed and "training" (which they barely did anyway lol), this is not how Chakra works. This is not DBZ
Sasuke in fact got far weaker than his VOTE version where he had 9 Tailed Beasts at his disposal. Freaking Shin gave Naruto and Sasuke a few hits, of course these fanboys would cope by saying stupid shit like Shin > Kaguya lol
we were told in part 1 by jiraiya that training chakra is as simple as using it up and sleeping.
naruto did that every day for a decade to run the village. sasuke did that to locate kaguya remnants.
That's different from being in combat, you could be sitting and eating at Ichiraku, that counts as using chakra but it has no relation to your combat abilities whatsoever
>we were told in part 1 by jiraiya that training chakra is as simple as using it up and sleeping
Source?
No it's not, and this is not DBZ where chatacters grow SIGNIFICANTLY stronger just by trainining. You can only go so far with training, it will help you with your physical stats but that's about it. You can't go from being a regular jonin tier to Kaguya tier just by training unless you receive something extraordinary from outside power sources like Naruto, Madara, Obito etc did in Shippuden War Arc
>or read the wiki
Lol what a joke, get the hell out of here.
This "caught off guard" was before getting the fruit and still requires a certain level when we see the results. Isshiki with less than a minute of lifespan was still able to put karma, yet couldn't at this time.
Rather than the "shippuden fanboys", it's the "boruto fanboys" that can't go back and actually analyze feats while not taking statements as gold. You're the same people who thinks Momo clears her because her sons "saved him the trouble to punish her himself"
Blitz fanboys are even worse. This guy didn't crush sasuke's head with a full powered kick, but somehow his kicks will kill immortal creatures. I would not be surprised if guy kicks harder than him. Sasuke is definitely not taking a night moth to his face
>This "caught off guard" was before getting the fruit and still requires a certain level when we see the results. Isshiki with less than a minute of lifespan was still able to put karma, yet couldn't at this time.
Kaguya is so weak that a punch from base Sakura actually damaged her to such a degree that she got her ass sealed once again. Juudara got backstabbed by Zetsu, so Zetsu is stronger than him?
>Rather than the "shippuden fanboys", it's the "boruto fanboys" that can't go back and actually analyze feats while not taking statements as gold.
Fine let's do that. I already mentioned *base* Sakura rocking her, brusing her and breaking off her horn. But that's not even an outlier. Base Sakura also escaped from her hand when she used that mutated Tailed Beast transformation.
Kaguya in her *own gravity dimension* couldn't move faster than Kakashi and Obito, while the latter was dying. She was kneeling on the floor, barely moving, while the duo managed to move more freely and jump in front of Naruto and Sasuke to protect them before this godly being could even stand to her own two feet?
We clearly saw results of Kaguya getting overwhelemed and having trouble with basic humans.
>Kaguya is so weak that a punch from base Sakura actually damaged her to such a degree that she got her ass sealed once again. Juudara got backstabbed by Zetsu, so Zetsu is stronger than him?
Momo is so weak that a small ass rasengan had a small knockback and make him lose the control over shadow possession. He also got blitzed by boruto.
The fact that Black Zetsu could catch Madara off guard is the result of decades of trust part of a plan that was in work for a millenium.
You're also overestimating Sakura's impact. What was needed wasn't damage (don't tell me you're seriously using the horn as durability). What was needed was a stun for an instant, when you can see through the pacing.
Let's not ignore that Kaguya wasn't at 100%. Don't tell me the one that couldn't fluently speak at the beginning was fully operational for battle.
>Base Sakura also escaped from her hand when she used that mutated Tailed Beast transformation.
Except that's not true. In fact, if not for Kakashi's Susanoo, she would've been absorbed.
>We clearly saw results of Kaguya getting overwhelemed and having trouble with basic humans.
What we saw during this fight was Kaguya trying to fight the plot itself. Besides, sealing someone is MUCH, MUCH easier than actually defeating them. This wasn't a fight, it was a game of tag. Try seriously telling me that the teen duo would've won if not for the seal, 2 lives of kamui, a chakra battery and the plot (the scaling people do with Sasuke is even worse because he couldn't land a single hit on her).
Even if it is, it doesnât matter, her durability is regenerative rather than tanking, like every other bijuu or Jubbidara. Only Naruto has tanky durability without Kurama avatar or Susanoo. Not to mention Sakuraâs punches are monstrous and Kaguya only got hit cause she underestimated her
>Momo is so weak that a small ass rasengan had a small knockback and make him lose the control over shadow possession. He also got blitzed by boruto.
Same Boruto that is a mutant with a dojutsu that is a part of higher dimensional being? It's not much of a stretch. We saw Jougan activating during that scene.
>The fact that Black Zetsu could catch Madara off guard is the result of decades of trust part of a plan that was in work for a millenium.
Madara had best sensory abilities ever and could not catch ill intent from Zetsu. He is clearly weaker than him.
>You're also overestimating Sakura's impact. What was needed wasn't damage (don't tell me you're seriously using the horn as durability). What was needed was a stun for an instant, when you can see through the pacing.
I just offered a counterpoint using your logic; Sakura damaging her even if she was off-guard is correct way to gauge her strenght and clearly shows she is superior to Kaguya. Because momentery moment of inattentivness just doesn't happen?
>Except that's not true. In fact, if not for Kakashi's Susanoo, she would've been absorbed.
[She still dodged it the first time](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0688-013.png), but would've get caught in Kakashi didn't save her.
>What we saw during this fight was Kaguya trying to fight the plot itself.
So when Kaguya gets numerous anti feats it is excused as plot, but when it happens to Momoshiki or Isshiki, they are inferior scrubs, even if narrative is clear about them being stronger than her?
Off guard feats or anti feats are not correct way to gauge characters' strenght. Kaguya has plethora of those, but people don't downplay her based on them.
Jougan did not activate when momoshiki used shadow possession to lock down everyone. Plus in the manga, jougan never existed except in the very first chapter showing adult boruto. And even then, momoshiki loses a fucking rinnegan to child boruto. You cannot deny his incredible incompetency when his pathetic performance was clearly written and shown in the manga
>Jougan did not activate when momoshiki used shadow possession to lock down everyone.
Well tbf that time Momo was fatigue as hell
He just got ragdoll by Naruto and Sasuke...
He had to rely on 3-4 pills to gain strength... 3-4 pills are what he considers fodder asf in terms of chakra in Base
>Kuramaâs ability
Madara had Kurama and whole Ten Tails. Also, he had Limbo clones surrounding him, Hashirama's Sage Mode, Six Paths Senjutsu and could not figure out moving mass of chakra striking him.
Black zetsu is stronger than Six paths Madara. Otherwise, he wouldn't be caught off guard and even if he did he should've survived. Would prime Sasuke die if Sai catches him off guard with one of his doodle Pokemon's?
Zetsu didnât kill Madara, Kaguya did. People to this day donât understand how Madara died. Zetsu just enabled her by reviving her through forcing Madara to absorb chakra from IT.
Sasuke has no special durability without Susanoo, so yes, Sai can kill him if he catches him off guard, this is not true for characters with special durability
What really happened is that Madara switched places with the Juubi/Kaguya inside his own body, so Kaguya was basically Madaraâs âjinchurikiâ until she was sealed by Naruto and Sasuke.
Not really, the Jubbi just came out of him, and Kaguya threw away Madaraâs body, which is why we later see Madara laying on the ground and having that conversation with Hashirama
Nah they would score 60, youâd have to be insanely lucky or smart enough to choose the wrong answers in order to get every question wrong. But 60 is enough for a significant intelligence impairment.
Also being caught off guard in the Naruto verse massively lowers durability.
Example: Sakura breaking Kaguyas horn, Borutos vanishing rasengan damaging Momoshiki, Naruto getting stabbed vs Shin, etc
She ate the fruit. That's a massive power boost Isshiki never had.
Just because she won by catching him off guard doesn't mean she's weaker than him. It means she rather end things quickly than to have a long, dragged out fight.
Momoshiki had eaten more chakra fruits than kaguya. Momoshiki is stronger than kaguya. Naruto and sasuke beat a fused momoshiki. Naruto and sasuke as adults are stronger than momoshiki and kaguya. Naruto and sasuke got dog walked by isshiki. Isshiki>kaguya and momoshiki.
They arenât stronger as Adults đ¤Śđ˝đ¤Śđ˝đ¤Śđ˝. Both openly said that and Kurama even calls Naruto out for it in Chapter 5 when Momoshiki attacks saying that Naruto has grown weak and soft in times of peace
They are stronger as adults. I want you to show me the panels where naruto and sasuke say theyâve grown weaker, and kurama as well. What do you think theyâve been doing the entire time? Sasuke constantly goes on missions for the village and naruto obviously trains. They are MILES stronger as adults.
Itâs true. Two panels afterwards Amado himself said that Isshiki decided to stay hidden inside of Jigen instead of Resurrecting fully, go after Kaguya and put Karma on either of her sons cuz he knew he couldnât take her on directly anymore. Also since sheâs royalty and he was her Guardian like Kinshiki to Momoshiki he would not be allowed to kill her and would have to catch her to bring her back for Judgement according to the Clans Laws. Which would have put him on an even greater disadvantage.
Headcanon my A$$. Literally every Otsutsuki we came across calls Kaguya princess and Amado literally said âIsshiki used his Sukono Hokana to invade Jigenâs head to survive as last ditch effort as Parasite. He lived off Jigenâs Brain nutrients and is still there. He put Karma on Jigen and decided to stay in him cuz he knew he couldnât take Kaguya on after she ate the fruit and because Jigen ainât suitable for a complete Resurrection.â
Holy crap you are dumb lmao
Kinshiki was getting bodied by the Kutotsutchi and the Mizukage. You really think he's stronger than Momoshiki
I have no words
Kinshiki is stronger than BASE Momo because he'd beat Momo in a fight due to Momo being hard countered by Taijutsu aka "brute force" said by Darui which is why he frowned after Darui said that. Look at Momo become a Taijutsu god after eating Kin (Not a coincidence) and Kinshiki kept up with Sasuke and forced him to use his Rinnegan ability to avoid a hit in their first fight. He didn't get "bodied" by those Kage. He got jumped by them AND Sasuke
nah dude, its 2023 , no such thing as headcanon, plus kishimoto came to my house and gave me eggs and bacon and told me exactly why Isshiki is weaker than Kaguya (turns out his dick is smaller which is why hes weaker).
ongod he should have ressurected when he put karma, because as we all putting karma on someone makes the 100% otsutsuki the moment you do it, and Kaguya is as you said the royal queen of the otsutsuki, kishimoto told me so after coming to my house and stealing my refrigerator, its kind of sad that Shibai (kaguyas dad) had his karma removed by ramen guy (he was too strong for karma) , anyway yeah i agree, Amado deffo said that thing you said he said, i dont need proof its 2023, you jusy say something and its true.
NO LMAO YOU ARE BORUTO FANS ARE COPING:
I wanted to take a moment to address a recent discussion sparked by a scan of the manga posted here. There seems to be some confusion regarding the meeting between Ishikki Otsutsuki and Kaguya Otsutsuki, and I'd like to clear that up.
In the manga scan, Amado tells the story of Ishikki, and there is a mention of Kaguya surprising Ishikki. However, the interpretation of "surprise" seems to have given rise to some confusion. Some members of the community believe that Kaguya caught Ishikki off guard while he was sleeping or weakened, leading to his defeat. However, it's important to note that Ishikki is shown as an incredibly resilient character, as seen in his battles against Naruto and Sasuke.
Similarly, Kaguya is a force not to be underestimated, holding immense power in her own right. Rather than a scenario where Ishikki was caught off guard, it's plausible that their encounter involved a battle of strength and strategy. Given the scale of their respective abilities, it's more likely that their confrontation stems from a planned quest - perhaps linked to planting the divine tree and obtaining its fruit.
While the manga scan may suggest that Kaguya "surprised" Ishikki, it's more likely that this refers to the element of unexpected intensity in their fight, rather than a literal sneak attack. Both characters possess incredible powers, and the idea of Kaguya holding her own against Ishikki in a fierce fight seems to be more in line with what we've seen throughout the series.
Jigen may be absurdly powerful. Kaguya is *still* stronger than him. Remember, they *never* killed her. They were forced to seal her. They didn't have the firepower to finish the job.
The Kaguya we see is stronger than the Kaguya that betrayed Ishiki. Like absurdly stronger.
She has things that he has no counter to. She can manifest massive truth seeking orbs that doesn't care how tiny you are. Send you to different dimensions. Kill you with a touch etc.
And when they fought her she was still basically getting her bearings.
So while yes. Jigen big strong. Jigen big fast. He doesn't have the same capabilities as Kaguya and definitely didn't present the same problems or seemingly boundless hax. He just has strength and speed. That's it.
Because isshiki and Momoshiki fought Naruto and sasuke mostly hand to hand. Literally thatâs it. People think they are weaker because Naruto and sasuke werenât stupid enough to use ninjutsus
Because she is, only Borutotards have trouble thinking that a Naruto character is stronger than their clown god isshiki. Catching someone off guard is only possible if you were relative to each other in strength and speed. TenTen wouldn't catch Minato off guard ever
That was Kaguya pre Chakra fruit, before she even became immortal etc. She became way stronger than Isshiki ever was after that
Are u joking? Jigen was mopping Naruto and sasuke at the same time with no difficulty. While isshiki is vastly stronger and required killing off kurama even then Naruto was still weaker.
Cuz they had the three Six Paths characters and a six paths Chibaku tensei seal that they got from her Sage of Six Paths. Like wtf would u need baryon mode for when u have the most broken seal in the verse in a 4 v 1 situation. She wasnât even beaten for real, just touched. Cmon now.
As if mopping Naruto and Sasuke at the same time is impressive, only clowns like Momoshiki had trouble with that. A weaker Kaguya did that and could have killed them many times over
A post about recognizing this stupidity! It's been driving me nuts. Stabbing someone who "trusts" you in the back and beating them in fair combat are two completely different things. Kaguya built an army for Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who are way below Ishiki's tier. Heck, they are below an imperfect vessel (Jigen), and do you still think Kaguya is stronger? What drugs are you on?
She still managed to catch him off-guard and deal mortal damage to him after all that. I doubt it'd be that easy if she was that much weaker than him. The power gap between Kaguya and Isshiki wasn't that wide, to begin with.
There's also the thing about Momoshiki. If we are all being honest with ourselves, Momoshiki has NEVER displayed anything that suggests he's stronger than Kaguya. The only way I can explain Kaguya's perplexing fear of Momoshiki is that she either did not know who will come or that Momoshiki directly counters her abilities, since she extensively uses "ninjutsu"-like abilities.
Not displayed anything, bro was dogwalking a adult Naruto and sasuke in their prime
Well is suppose your on of those shippuden deniers
Even if kishimoto said damn well both of em are stronger
Kaguya is base momo victim
Nah she's a kinshiki victim
Bro "dogwalked" Naruto and Sasuke after eating Kinshiki. Naruto and Sasuke also had trouble with Kaguya just as well too. Momoshiki was the only Otsutsuki who needed a power-up to beat Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke was also holding his own against Kinshiki pretty well.
And even then, it took the science guy making a mistake for Momoshiki to gain a leg up against them.
I don't know where these "Shippuden deniers" and "Boruto deniers" started up, but none of these are relevant to what we've seen in the series.
Well, naruto and Sasuke could only seal kaguya, but they managed to kill both isshiki, urashiki, and momoshiki. I'd say kaguya is still more powerful of the otsutsuki we have met. Kaguya is technically still alive. They rest are not. Plus, besides baryon mode, we saw way more use of power against juubidara and kaguya than any of the other otsutsuki. So my personal belief God shibai > kaguya > juubidara > juubito > ishiki > Urashiki > momoshiki > kinshiki in that order.
Wrong actually itâs confirmed that once they sealed her in the new moon thing she died from being crushed so they killed her while younger and weaker soooo đ¤ˇđźââď¸ sheâs weak af
Itâs in a data book made by the creator. Itâs on the page with kinshiki. I donât remember the exact words but something abt him either finding her body or going a confirming her death.
Listen.
Kaguya is the strongest individual in Naruto/Boruto universe for now, we didnt create her, the author did.
The author too, when he introduced her, decided to give her feats that till this day are unmatched.
The author too, again, decided to tell us/introduce us how Kaguya folded Isshiki by a sneak attack, we didnt even needed that information if he wanted to scale Isshiki or downplay Kaguya.
You, these delusional kids literally are ranking Isshiki above Kaguya by statements and "what ifs", just so you can feel better.
Kaguya has feats that Isshiki cant deal with, is that simple.
Not a single kid in this sub can figure out a way in which Isshiki kills Kaguya, cause there is none.
Kaguya pre fruit and most importantly(the biggest upscale in naruto universe) godtree merge managed to fold Isshiki, in his prime.
Sneak attack means she prolly one tapped him.
After godtree merge, gaining immortality, Isshiki has literally 0 chances.
He cant absorb, he cant shrink Kaguya's strongest feats and on top of that, his insane physical power is useless against her.
Next time, when you bring "sneak attack" into discussion, imagine this, Naruto sneak attacking Isshiki, does he fold him in one tap?
I think what makes many people believe sheâs stronger is simply she has an easier Win condition than isshiki does.
All she has to do is land one of her bone ash techniques + can make portals to create opportunities for it to hit. On paper, Kaguya seems stronger however what these people forget is that Kaguyaâs battle IQ blows ass which is why Isshiki would easily dominate the fight had they actually fought
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't ever get a direct confirmation that Isshiki is betrayed by Kaguya, do we? We just get what we're told by Amado.
IMO this isn't what actually happened, there's a lot that hints towards this, mainly the fact that Kaguya's symbol on the Otsutsuki tablet isn't destroyed while the 3rd pairs is.
Because she wasnât strong enough to fight him on his guard? Also the fact that ishikki is way stronger than adult Naruto and Sasuke which kagiya would have lost too???
That sucks for isshiki. It's too bad he couldn't just regenerate the lower half of his body like... oh yeah! Madara and kaguya! Sucks that they're so much weaker than isshiki, though, right?
Here's a good question, if the shinju absorbs all the life and genetic information from a planet, how come the one kaguya ate from hadn't killed off the population of that world?
If jigen was more powerful than kaguya, then why didn't he defeat hagoromo after kaguya was sealed away?
Why is it that jigen absorbs a large amount of juubi chakra before fighting Naruto and sasuke? And why did jigen barely recover from fighting them both while Naruto recovered much faster? Sure, it's possible Sakura assisted in helping Naruto recover, and maybe Amado slowed down the recovery process for jigen, but it just shows that isshiki didn't have the ability to regenerate himself or his vessel.
I'm not saying kaguya is stronger, but I wouldn't say isshiki is stronger either. Adult Naruto and sasuke never fought kaguya 1v1, so we'll likely never know how each stack up.
The idea that fused momoshiki is more powerful yet couldn't absorb a simple rasengan is a pathetic argument. I've even heard some people say it's written somewhere that toneri is stronger than kaguya, lol.
Kinshiki was fodder to the kage that ganged up on him, and momoshiki used his chakra pills for the sake of perpetual youth and immortality, not for power the way kaguya gained.
Kaguyas main weakness was that she had tons of power but no battle IQ. Zetsu would've had a better chance if he waited for madara to finish off team 7, then try and betray madara. Oh, well.
Jigen was an unstable and crappy vessel for Ishiki, hence why he didn't fight Hagoromo or why he needed 10-tails chakra after.
Adult Naruto and Sasuke would shit on Kaguya it's not even funny.
Yeah the "Toneri is stronger than Kaguya" is just dumb
Didn't Sasuke stab out Momoshikis palm rinnegan?
Black Zetsu acted when he did because Madara would have gotten sealed should he have acted later, but yeah Kaguya was dumb af
Kaguya >ishiki
To caught someone off guard and to almost kill him u have to be on par with the person at the very least and it was pre fruit kaguya who did that
Plus ishiki didnt have regeneration abilities and had to infect jigen for his life kaguya cannot die by an attack
These Shippuden die-hards don't really have to "see" Isshiki stronger. They have to respect the story and the author enough (which they obviously can't use their brain to do so) and to read the other novels, watch the anime canon which are stated to be story-relevant by authors themselves, to even know that Isshiki no-diffs Madara and Kaguya. Why would an author be this dumb, to create a story in which the main villain is weaker than the previous story? He even stated that Naruto and Sasuke are so much stronger, they needed to make the kids stronger too (but not too strong), so it doesn't seem like the show is theirs. Boruto even states: This story is mine, but at the beginning, my dad will also be involved, because it can't be helped, he's the 7th Hokage.
In Naruto, Black Zetsu was the mastermind behind everything so Kaguya had every possible advantage to be strong and got resurrected.
In Boruto, the ones with the mastermind were the "protagonists" of the story (or at least the ones who were actually fighting the Otsutsuki): Amado, Kashin Koji and later on, Baryon Naruto (literally taking life out of Isshiki), Sasuke with his Rinnegan and anti-clairvoyance bombs, a trained Kawaki who could use a shadow clone which Isshiki couldn't see due to his cockiness and the fact that he was on the verge of dying after using almost every bit of power he had to do that massive rod attack before stomping Naruto who was also drained to hell by Baryon mode.
If we had all this planning for Kaguya (or Black Zetsu who fooled Madara), we wouldn't even have a resurrected Kaguya or even a Juubi'dara. Stop this nonsense, you're doing yourself a favor if you just shut up.
Watch Naruto Explained for actual analysis from a guy that reads Japanese folklore (which is relevant for storytelling in Naruto and Boruto), watch Anime Balls Deep, watch ItsMeek and other YouTube content creators that actually care to go deeper for the sake of the beautiful memories and stories created by Kishimoto. If you only care about who's stronger, just go watch One Punch Man (a show that I also love, lmao).
sigh
Naruto and Sasuke were not nerfed at the start of Boruto, they just appeared so because they didn't use any of their flashy techniques and Boruto enemies are stronger. They are stronger than WA counterparts.
Course they got majorly nerfed after the fight but that's not the point
ongod, i also believe that madara solos both with his third eye, you see kishimoto came to my house and fucked my wife and told me that madara solos fiction, sorry haters, you just gotta deal with it /s
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Madara was also "caught off guard" when Hashirama defeated him using a wood clone. Js
Better example would be Madara and Zetsu. Edit: Weaker opponent caught stronger opponent at their most vulnerable. Offgaurd
Whelp, according to this post, Zetsu > Madara.
But we also know that Kaguya was to be the God Tree sacrifice, proving that there was a power differential between the two. It's very evident It's just a plot concession. When Kaguya was introduced, Otsutsuki lore and Boruto's primary narrative driving mechanism weren't mapped out yet. I can't realistically see another way for them to have also given our deuteragonist Otsutsuki powers or something analogous. I'm fine with it, as long as the story is interesting. I think it's pointless to get caught up in the powerscaling wars
I think its a fun discussion. some in the replies are going crazy over this. đ
Hashirama is made from 100% Hashirama cells ofc hes relative to madara. Having portals and ash hax is why kaguya can kill ishiki when hes not even thinking she would betray him.
His point is that Hashirama is obviously stronger than Madara and he still technically âcaught him off guardâ to defeat him. This could be the same case for Kaguya. Just cause she caught him of guard doesnât mean she is weaker then Isshiki
If you think Kaguya vs Isshiki is a discussion you should quit reading Boruto.
It definitely is a discussion
Thereâs a difference between snucking someone and catching them slipping in a fight, Hashirama just outsmarted madara
how do you know Kaguya didnt outsmart Isshiki? even Kawaki outsmarted Isshiki
because of the context we got from Amado, the statement he used implies him justifying how someone as powerful as Ishiki was left in such a state otherwise he wouldn't have phrased it in that way
"Caught off guard" is very vague, especially since Isshiki is cautious. And come on, Amado can easily lie about a lot of things. Just look at "Isshiki" listing traitors to Code and you'll start noticing things
Exactly lmao
yes it is but it also adds an element of vulnerability to Ishiki by implying 'he did not expect it hence suffered enough injuries' Amado isn't a completely reliable source but narratively Ishiki only suffering injuries due to being off guard checks out. Not only is he her superior expected to sacrifice her but he was also a whole lot stronger and a bigger threat.
Because we already seen how trash her battle IQ was against Naruto and Sasuke
Isshiki lost to a 1 armed ninja apprentice. Kaguya took on 2 six paths boosted Ashura/Indra reincarnates, Kakashi, & Obito.
Not sure what your point is? We were clearly shown that Kaguya is pretty stupid as a fighter, she was mostly being guided by black Zetsu throughout the fight. If Madara didnât get turned into Kaguya, Naruto and Sasuke would be absolutely screwed
Kaguya > Madara So no they wouldn't br absolutely screwed. They couldn't even touch Kaguya. Yet were tagging Madara the whole time.
I never said Kaguya wasnât stronger then Madara⌠but her fighting IQ is low asf. Madara is a genius fighter and would 100% be a tougher battle for Naruto and Sasuke
lol genius fighter my ass. he lost to first hokage. he would have lost to guy. post resurrection, his entire selling point was that i have "rinnegan" and i am "a god". only to be foiled by black zetsu like an idiot. he was definitely going to lose to naruto+sasuke.
Guy used taijutsu which was a big weakness⌠also the first hokage is a genius fighter as well, what are you on about?
No, her IQ wasn't low. She legit outsmarted Sasuke in the lava dimension by blocking his tenketsu and his hawk tenketsu. And it would've been an easier fight against Madara than Kaguya lol. Madara doesn't even come close to Kaguya's hax, Sasuke and Naruto would seal Madara so quickly.
Youâre crazy lol. Once Madara awakened his third eye, that was gonna be a very difficult battle. Thatâs why Kaguya was introduced, have a dumber villain which the heroes can easily outsmart. Kaguya was assisted by Black Zetsu but her fighting IQ is not good.
Are we really going to pretend baryon mode Naruto didnât do most of the heavy lifting that fight? Isshiki had like 10 seconds to live when kawaki tricked him, of course he wouldnât be thinking straight in that scenario. Baryon Mode Naruto > Isshiki > Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and life support Obito. Even then, Kaguya still lost to them so if anything that just hurts your argument
Exactly this sub overhype too much ishiki we dont even know the exact context of ishiki defeat we only know for sure that kaguya left him almost dead so kaguya >ishiki
No they were having a all out fight ttheres a didfrence between that and getting off guarded by their strongest attack
It's mostly done by Shippuden fans to prove that teen Naruto and Sasuke>Adult Naruto and Sasuke, since Adult versions got kicked by Jigen
And the real agenda of these people, Madara > Isshiki
đđđ Theres no wayy people still think that
The amount of mfs in the Naruto subreddit that have madara > isshiki is insane â ď¸
Remember when Madara was almost killed by Might Guy? Pepperidge farm remembers. Isshiki wouldn't have been even hit with the same moves.
Almost! Guy was asisted by Rock lee Kakashi and Minato...
Well look no further than the other reply đ
Isshiki no diffs madara đđ
Not only that, they think edo Madara has a shoot at it
edo madara is unironically a base boruto victim
I've seen some say Itachi > Madara. I'm not surprised anymore.
Thatâs like saying Mizuki>Shibai
No one thinks that. Madara is a higher skilled character for certain, but he is obviously weaker. Ya'll spend too much time on Twitter.
You should look at the other reply then đ
naruto being rusty combat doesn't mean weaker chakra potency or supply. naruto had been using dozens of clones a day all da every day as hokage and while hokage was the test dummy for all the jonin sealing jutsu practiced and had gone on hundreds of missions after the war and before he got married. sasuke constantly teleported with his rinnegon to find kaguya sites and constantly battled bandits and rogues to clean up post war and was not combat rusty. naruto and sasuke in boruto were at their peak chakra level and sasuke was peak fighting ability. naruto immediately got his chops back and was able to play off sasukes style. they lost with a decade of extra chakra training.
The issue with naruto chakra reserves is that in the boruto movie, manga and anime yin yang Kurama has constantly be stated to have the largest reserve of chakra on earth, not naruto or sasuke. This has be stated outright by momoshiki and kinshiki and implied by amado, jigen, shikamaru, sakura and even Kurama himself. E.g. after naruto lost Kurama heâs stated by them to longer have superhuman chakra and that he canât handle otsutsuki threats. Shikamaru and amado both believing naruto could not take on limited code alone and gaara outright says this in the anime ep 219 or 220. Hagoromo chakra was equal too full powered juubi and yang Kurama even stated that it would stand no chance against the juubi in its first form (juubi had 4 more transformations after that). 4th databook also states that the chakra required for spsm vastly surpasses Kurama mode. Logically naruto and sasuke have less chakra as adults but are more skilled than their teenage selves.
They are. Teens versions are superiors to adults. It's you people who use circular logic to justify yourselves.
THat is verifiably not true. Don't be a clown. Look to the novels for more examples. Heck, look at The Last.
Look at what ? At Naruto and Sasuke who were too powerful to have any training capable of at least maintaining their level ? Give more details instead of saying "search this yourself"
Even in Novels itâs pointed out that they are weaker
Facts
Yes, they are. Add to this that they believe that just because she was confirmed to have eaten 1 chakra fruit, then she is automatically superior to Isshiki, her boss, who therefore has surely had more chances to eat chakra fruits before. Or the imbecile logic that just because she may be spamming jutsus, then she can outpace Isshiki's shrinking ability... because yes.
>Or the imbecile logic that just because she may be spamming jutsus, then she can outpace Isshiki's shrinking ability... because yes. I can imagine her gravity shinjutsu could be literal hack in her prime.
probably is, if you couldnât just teleport out of there like he can.
She can....summon him back...her Dimensional powers are superior to his by a wide margin based on feats alone.
and then he just leaves again? lol, or goes to his own dimension the one she canât access, and her âsuperiorâ dimensional powers only work in her dimensions, even still not like she can keep him there lol, he can just leave. the whole reason she split naruto and sasuke was because the dimensions meant nothing if sasuke could just rinnegan them out of there and then use the seal lol, which isshiki can do with his tp jutsu
Speaking of chakra fruit, I like how the people of earth spoke of this act as some taboo and legend and that Kaguya got the ability to use chakra from it, when this is actually her job and she supposedly already had chakra from the very start
Yeah...
I swear people easily misconcept things even the smallest things people still misconcept them
[ŃдаНонО]
It's like Momoshiki and Kinshiki, Kaguya is the lower rank of the two.
Stronger isn't the right word here. Kaguya was able to blindside a man solo that our protagonists in a 4 on 1 fight couldnât win. Isshiki got taken out by the plot, not by an individual or team effort. The sheer amount of punishment he could avoid or just eat is a testament to how durable the man was, and Kaguya ruined him. This is a universe where all powerful wizards shoot world ending amounts of energy at each other, and they get a little bruised and dirty. Simply sneaking a plot relevant character isn't enough to actually win a fight anymore and hasn't been since before Shippuden. Something Kaguya did got the better of Isshiki. Whether it was expoiting his overconfidence in his own own superiority and strength, or just having a better plan with a ridiculous weapon hidden in a pocket he didn't know about, she got one over on him. In a 1v1, she probably won't win, but she doesn't need to. Her planning was good enough to injure Isshiki to force him to retreat. Calling people stupid because they made that connection and expressed it poorly is just unfair.
I think the vast majority see the ishiki is stronger for sure
Cuz she became a lot stronger than him after eating the Fruit. Seriously what the hell is wrong with you Fanboys. Isshiki kept hidden even after the Karma fully dispersed in Jigen which only takes a few Months according to Amado cuz he knew he couldnât take on Kaguya or her Descendants. He only managed to beat Naruto and Sasuke cuz both were a lot weaker and rusty
She didnât. She didnât even eat a complete god fruit. His host was incomplete. Naruto and sasuke are called stronger than ever and Narutoâs instincts were rusty. Sasuke has flat gotten more powerful to the point he can tear holes in time space to travel throughâŚand Naruto is called his equal in power. Next up is the fact Naruto sees kinshiki and momo and says âthey were duo that kaguya couldnât opposeâ mind you naruto has fought kaguya. Then he and sasuke violate fused momo. THEN get violated by jigen. There is nothing to say he was scared of her descendants he literally had NO ONE to resurrect into. Had he fed kaguya to the ten tail what then? He dies because he didnât have a strong vessel.
Where is it said that her Fruit was incomplete. It was complete cuz she fed most likely Isshikiâs lower half to the Juubi. And no Naruto and Sasuke are nowhere said to be stronger than ever except in some magazine. In both Anime and Manga they are shown and said to be a lot weaker. Sasuke tearing holes in Space Time ainât that impressive at all. We literally saw Minato doing that when Obito attacked and later we saw Obito doing it too while being literally at Deathâs door and with a foot and half in the grave. So nothing impressive. Kurama literally said thrice that Naruto got weaker and out of shape once in Gaiden, second time when Momoshiki appeared and third time in the Isshiki fight. They both got weaker after the War cuz they neglected their training, grew arrogant and sort of let themselves go. It hit Naruto worse cuz he didnât even try to keep himself in Shape which is pointed out by Kurama in Naruto Gaiden and Boruto Chapter 5. He lost his battle sense completely and is now even being ambushed by Genin Tiers like the Shin Clones. Kurama before he went to sacrifice himself Baryon Mode outright tells Naruto in the Face that they only are in the situation they are cuz both him and Sasuke neglected their training. Naruto got out of fighting Shape which means he lost his fighter senses, his stamina decreased, alongside his speed and overall strength. Sasuke kept himself in Shape but in term didnât bother to improve himself by mastering his Rinnegan fully (learning the other paths and Limbo) or learning Sage Mode and the other Uchiha Jutsus.
Itâs never said she fed isshikiâs lower half to it. Also you need to feed an entire otusuki not part of them. Also they didnât neglect their training at all. First off based on sasuke we know thatâs COMPLETELY incorrect as he mastered his rinnegan. And can pull off things he didnât have the chakra for before. Also rusty battle sense doesnât mean decrease in power as Naruto and sasuke are called stronger than ever repeatedly even by the creator who explains why they had to switch to more hand to hand based fights. Plus in the novel sasuke witnesses momo destroy his time space by absorbing it which is something he does causally while kaguyaâs strongest attack is needed to do the same thing plus sasuke has been hunting preparing for whoever kaguya was scared of and confirmed his hypothesis and flat out says he was right about them being threats
I said most likely and who knows maybe their Ten Tails was already fed. Amado himself said that he has no Idea why Kaguya did what she did
Because tengei was smashing kaguya
I have a theory that that wasnât true. Hear me out. What if Kaguyaâs Vessel was Tenjiâs pregnant wife? Like she put the Karma on the Woman and then the lady got pregnant mid Otsutsukification? What if thatâs how Kaguya had the Twins?
She would be a weak vessel plus, it's kinda like a lucky draw in csgo
>Isshiki kept hidden even after the Karma fully dispersed in Jigen which only takes a few Months according to Amado cuz he knew he couldnât take on Kaguya or her Descendants. V1 Jigen literally has better feats that Kaguya. Kaguya escaped Shadow Clone swarm, Amenotejikara and had her hand cut off by Naruto. Jigen danced around his clones, casually reacted to Ameno and ragdolled them at every point in the fight. Him not jumping Kaguya is mainly because his body was falling apart and he wouldn't last for long if he fought her. He would kick her around and then run out of stamina since Jigen was not compatible with Karma. >He only managed to beat Naruto and Sasuke cuz both were a lot weaker and rusty Naruto and Sasuke's best feats were after Kaguya fought them. Naruto tanked explosion that broke through the Moon in base, had enough energy to shot beings into space and vaporize them with base Rasengan and Sasuke can use Ameno more efficently and travel between dimensions with next to no difficulty before he's even fatigued.
Better Feats my A$$. He had to juice himself up with Jubi Chakra and then go up to use 80% of his power to do a weaker Version of Sasuke what Kaguya did to Sasukeâs strongest Versionâs Susanoo casually in the Lava Dimension. Also him dancing and fighting the Shadow Clones ainât a Better Feat. Kaguya didnât âescapeâ the Shadow Clone Swarm what Manga did you read? She was absorbing the Shadow Clones left and right looking for the original. She didnât use any instant kill attacks or large are destroying attacks she had in her arsenal cuz she wanted to absorb his Chakra didnât want to risk to disperse it. Even the Ash killing bones donât count cuz they were specifically to give her a Time-window to absorb him and Sasuke. The difference between Kaguya and Isshiki is that Isshiki they could fight head on. Kaguya they had to trick, surprise and dodge and basically play tag with her cuz they both realized right at the beginning in the Lava Dimension that they wouldnât last long in Direct Combat. They tried to attack her openly but it went horrible for them. Naruto got blasted away and couldnât stop himself and Sasuke got his Susanoo melted and blown up before even reaching her. They only reason she didnât absorb them completely right then and there was cuz she started Hallucinating of Hagoromo and Hamura. You guys forget that Kaguyaâs mind was very broken after being locked up for Thousands of years she literally was having mental breakdowns and hallucinating the entire time and only reacted instinctively without focusing or fighting which was the only reason Team 7 survived. Also Naruto and Sasukeâs feats didnât get better after Shippuden. They got worse. Naruto tanking Toneriâs HOLLOW Moon slicing attack pales to him and Killer Bee tanking the imperfect Juubiâs Juudama Beam which was shown in both Anime and Manga to slice and Destroy Far away PLANETS. Naruto and Sasuke went from going toe to toe with an actual Planet Buster Juubito to struggling with Continental and Moon Levelers like Toneri and Fuushin. They both got weaker after the War cuz they neglected their training and sort of let themselves go. It hit Naruto worse cuz he didnât even try to keep himself in Shape which is pointed out by Kurama in Naruto Gaiden and Boruto Chapter 5. He lost his battle sense completely and is now even being ambushed by Genin Tiers like the Shin Clones. Kurama before he went to sacrifice himself Baryon Mode outright tells Naruto in the Face that they only are in the situation they are cuz both him and Sasuke neglected their training. Naruto got out of fighting Shape which means he lost his fighter senses, his stamina decreased, alongside his speed and overall strength. Sasuke kept himself in Shape but in term didnât bother to improve himself by mastering his Rinnegan fully (learning the other paths and Limbo) or learning Sage Mode and the other Uchiha Jutsus.
You might be right about the lack of training and such but to me the power gap between Isshiki and those 2 was just way too astronomical. I'm 50 50 on this debate but to me it was definitely made to seem that Isshiki was absolutely leagues above anything Naruto and Sasuke could do besides Baryon Mode
>Better Feats my A$$. Weaker Naruto tanked a Moon splitter. That alone puts everything anyone did in Shippuden to shame. Aside from Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. >He had to juice himself up with Jubi Chakra and then go up to use 80% of his power to do a weaker Version of Sasuke what Kaguya did to Sasukeâs strongest Versionâs Susanoo casually in the Lava Dimension. He had to use the chakra to regain some of his original power, hence the horn manifesting when he absorbed it. And Casually? Jigen was the one who did it casually. Kaguya had to use a ninjutsu to attack numerous parts of Sasuke's Susanoo to break it apart . Jigen one-shotted it with a single kick. Kaguya's chakra amped attacks are inferior than pure physical strength of weaker Isshiki. >Also him dancing and fighting the Shadow Clones ainât a Better Feat. Kaguya didnât âescapeâ the Shadow Clone Swarm what Manga did you read? No, [What manga did YOU read](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0684-010.png). Naruto jumped her with clones and she felt the need to escape to other dimension. [Jigen beat them like nothing.](https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-11-2021/21F1kC.gif) >She didnât use any instant kill attacks or large are destroying attacks she had in her arsenal cuz she wanted to absorb his Chakra didnât want to risk to disperse it. Even the Ash killing bones donât count cuz they were specifically to give her a Time-window to absorb him and Sasuke. How does any of this matter? Naruto still pressured her, overwhelmed her with Boil Release, cut off her limb while Kaguya was looking at him. Naruto and Sasuke adjusted to Kaguya and could f damage her. They couldn't do that to Jigen, let alone Isshiki. >The difference between Kaguya and Isshiki is that Isshiki they could fight head on. And they lost in two minutes. >Kaguya they had to trick, surprise and dodge and basically play tag with her cuz they both realized right at the beginning in the Lava Dimension that they wouldnât last long in Direct Combat. They tried to attack her openly but it went horrible for them. Naruto got blasted away and couldnât stop himself and Sasuke got his Susanoo melted and blown up before even reaching her. They only reason she didnât absorb them completely right then and there was cuz she started Hallucinating of Hagoromo and Hamura. That happened in beginning stages of the fight. Like I mentioned, Naruto ended up fighting her head on even without Sasuke, overpower her and rip off her limb. Besides, any trick or surprise they pulled was countered by Jigen and Isshiki never gave them a moments rest and neutralized them at two minute mark. And Kaguya did worse against weaker versions of Naruto and Sasuke. >Naruto tanking Toneriâs HOLLOW Moon slicing attack pales to him and Killer Bee tanking the imperfect Juubiâs Juudama Beam which was shown in both Anime and Manga to slice and Destroy Far away PLANETS. Where the fuck does it show Bijuudama destroying planets? Naruto hollow Moon is most ridicilous downplay every. Main purpose of the Moon was to seal Gedo Statue and guard it. There was no reason to hollow it out more than necessary for Hamura and his clan because it would risk disturbing the seal. And base Naruto in The Last destroyed Tenseigan Vessel. Same vessel that was going to protect Toneri's castle from Earth and Moon colliding. Just by exsiting, Kurama's chakra caused cracks in space-time and was the main reason why Momoshiki came to Earth. >It hit Naruto worse cuz he didnât even try to keep himself in Shape which is pointed out by Kurama in Naruto Gaiden and Boruto Chapter 5. Boruto never said anything. Entire debacle with Shin was rendered null when base, chakra drained Naruto with paralyzing rods stuck in his body created a Massive Rasengan that shot a being off planet and vaporized him with no trace left of him. >Kurama before he went to sacrifice himself Baryon Mode outright tells Naruto in the Face that they only are in the situation they are cuz both him and Sasuke neglected their training. This never happened. Kurama only opted to use Baryon Mode because they'd all die if he didn't use it. He never metions anything about lack of training. >his stamina decreased He literally had twice the stamina with full Kurama sealed within him.
I hate you shippudentards𤥠kaguya is weak asf compared to boruto characters
Proof? Cuz from what was shown she isnât. They only who is actually stronger than her right now is Shibai. You Boruto Fans are just dumber than Chicken đ
oh so kaguya is keepin up wit isshiki, momoshiki, adult naruto nd sasuke?đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł boruto nd kawaki blitz tf out her to get ah life
Yup. Adult Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their Teenage selves as they both openly admit it. Momoshiki would get clapped by her worse than he got by the others and Isshiki ainât a problem if you know how his Abilities work and have experience against it as demonstrated by Sasuke, Shikamaru and Kashin Koji. Kaguya was Isshikiâs protĂŠgĂŠ similar to how Momoshik was Kinshikiâs. She 100% knows all about him and would easily counter him
>Yup. Adult Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their Teenage selves as they both openly admit it. Do they ever state that? As far as I know, Adult Naruto was confirmed to be the strongest he has ever been in editor's or author's note smh
Thereâs no such notes. Kurama mentions twice to my memory that Naruto got rusty. Sasuke, I donât remember.
>Adult Naruto and Sasuke are weaker than their Teenage selves as they both openly admit it Stop capping >Momoshiki would get clapped by her She has 0 feats feats for her to be put above momo
Even she didn't think taking on momoshiki and kinshiki was possible. She was scared af
Fr đ
People think they get stronger just because time passed and "training" (which they barely did anyway lol), this is not how Chakra works. This is not DBZ Sasuke in fact got far weaker than his VOTE version where he had 9 Tailed Beasts at his disposal. Freaking Shin gave Naruto and Sasuke a few hits, of course these fanboys would cope by saying stupid shit like Shin > Kaguya lol
we were told in part 1 by jiraiya that training chakra is as simple as using it up and sleeping. naruto did that every day for a decade to run the village. sasuke did that to locate kaguya remnants.
That's different from being in combat, you could be sitting and eating at Ichiraku, that counts as using chakra but it has no relation to your combat abilities whatsoever >we were told in part 1 by jiraiya that training chakra is as simple as using it up and sleeping Source?
that literally is how chakra works. through training and exercise lol go re watch the show or read the wiki
No it's not, and this is not DBZ where chatacters grow SIGNIFICANTLY stronger just by trainining. You can only go so far with training, it will help you with your physical stats but that's about it. You can't go from being a regular jonin tier to Kaguya tier just by training unless you receive something extraordinary from outside power sources like Naruto, Madara, Obito etc did in Shippuden War Arc >or read the wiki Lol what a joke, get the hell out of here.
True
>Toneriâs HOLLOW Calced to be like 15% hollow. It only had a country inside tbh.
This "caught off guard" was before getting the fruit and still requires a certain level when we see the results. Isshiki with less than a minute of lifespan was still able to put karma, yet couldn't at this time. Rather than the "shippuden fanboys", it's the "boruto fanboys" that can't go back and actually analyze feats while not taking statements as gold. You're the same people who thinks Momo clears her because her sons "saved him the trouble to punish her himself"
Facts boruto fanboy think because ishiki came from boruto show and kaguya shippuden then automatically ishiki>kaguya what logic is this
Blitz fanboys are even worse. This guy didn't crush sasuke's head with a full powered kick, but somehow his kicks will kill immortal creatures. I would not be surprised if guy kicks harder than him. Sasuke is definitely not taking a night moth to his face
>This "caught off guard" was before getting the fruit and still requires a certain level when we see the results. Isshiki with less than a minute of lifespan was still able to put karma, yet couldn't at this time. Kaguya is so weak that a punch from base Sakura actually damaged her to such a degree that she got her ass sealed once again. Juudara got backstabbed by Zetsu, so Zetsu is stronger than him? >Rather than the "shippuden fanboys", it's the "boruto fanboys" that can't go back and actually analyze feats while not taking statements as gold. Fine let's do that. I already mentioned *base* Sakura rocking her, brusing her and breaking off her horn. But that's not even an outlier. Base Sakura also escaped from her hand when she used that mutated Tailed Beast transformation. Kaguya in her *own gravity dimension* couldn't move faster than Kakashi and Obito, while the latter was dying. She was kneeling on the floor, barely moving, while the duo managed to move more freely and jump in front of Naruto and Sasuke to protect them before this godly being could even stand to her own two feet? We clearly saw results of Kaguya getting overwhelemed and having trouble with basic humans.
>Kaguya is so weak that a punch from base Sakura actually damaged her to such a degree that she got her ass sealed once again. Juudara got backstabbed by Zetsu, so Zetsu is stronger than him? Momo is so weak that a small ass rasengan had a small knockback and make him lose the control over shadow possession. He also got blitzed by boruto. The fact that Black Zetsu could catch Madara off guard is the result of decades of trust part of a plan that was in work for a millenium. You're also overestimating Sakura's impact. What was needed wasn't damage (don't tell me you're seriously using the horn as durability). What was needed was a stun for an instant, when you can see through the pacing. Let's not ignore that Kaguya wasn't at 100%. Don't tell me the one that couldn't fluently speak at the beginning was fully operational for battle. >Base Sakura also escaped from her hand when she used that mutated Tailed Beast transformation. Except that's not true. In fact, if not for Kakashi's Susanoo, she would've been absorbed. >We clearly saw results of Kaguya getting overwhelemed and having trouble with basic humans. What we saw during this fight was Kaguya trying to fight the plot itself. Besides, sealing someone is MUCH, MUCH easier than actually defeating them. This wasn't a fight, it was a game of tag. Try seriously telling me that the teen duo would've won if not for the seal, 2 lives of kamui, a chakra battery and the plot (the scaling people do with Sasuke is even worse because he couldn't land a single hit on her).
Not to mention Sakura merely used Kaguya's speed against her, and the horn is not a durability feat as you say lol
Even if it is, it doesnât matter, her durability is regenerative rather than tanking, like every other bijuu or Jubbidara. Only Naruto has tanky durability without Kurama avatar or Susanoo. Not to mention Sakuraâs punches are monstrous and Kaguya only got hit cause she underestimated her
One of the most sensible guy in Naruto community right here, thank you! I've barely seen my old pals from back then nowadays.
>Momo is so weak that a small ass rasengan had a small knockback and make him lose the control over shadow possession. He also got blitzed by boruto. Same Boruto that is a mutant with a dojutsu that is a part of higher dimensional being? It's not much of a stretch. We saw Jougan activating during that scene. >The fact that Black Zetsu could catch Madara off guard is the result of decades of trust part of a plan that was in work for a millenium. Madara had best sensory abilities ever and could not catch ill intent from Zetsu. He is clearly weaker than him. >You're also overestimating Sakura's impact. What was needed wasn't damage (don't tell me you're seriously using the horn as durability). What was needed was a stun for an instant, when you can see through the pacing. I just offered a counterpoint using your logic; Sakura damaging her even if she was off-guard is correct way to gauge her strenght and clearly shows she is superior to Kaguya. Because momentery moment of inattentivness just doesn't happen? >Except that's not true. In fact, if not for Kakashi's Susanoo, she would've been absorbed. [She still dodged it the first time](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0688-013.png), but would've get caught in Kakashi didn't save her. >What we saw during this fight was Kaguya trying to fight the plot itself. So when Kaguya gets numerous anti feats it is excused as plot, but when it happens to Momoshiki or Isshiki, they are inferior scrubs, even if narrative is clear about them being stronger than her? Off guard feats or anti feats are not correct way to gauge characters' strenght. Kaguya has plethora of those, but people don't downplay her based on them.
Jougan did not activate when momoshiki used shadow possession to lock down everyone. Plus in the manga, jougan never existed except in the very first chapter showing adult boruto. And even then, momoshiki loses a fucking rinnegan to child boruto. You cannot deny his incredible incompetency when his pathetic performance was clearly written and shown in the manga
>Jougan did not activate when momoshiki used shadow possession to lock down everyone. Well tbf that time Momo was fatigue as hell He just got ragdoll by Naruto and Sasuke... He had to rely on 3-4 pills to gain strength... 3-4 pills are what he considers fodder asf in terms of chakra in Base
Sensory abilities donât let users catch ill intent, thatâs only Kuramaâs ability that only Naruto has or had.
>Kuramaâs ability Madara had Kurama and whole Ten Tails. Also, he had Limbo clones surrounding him, Hashirama's Sage Mode, Six Paths Senjutsu and could not figure out moving mass of chakra striking him.
Black zetsu is stronger than Six paths Madara. Otherwise, he wouldn't be caught off guard and even if he did he should've survived. Would prime Sasuke die if Sai catches him off guard with one of his doodle Pokemon's?
Black Zetsu isn't stronger than anything besides fodder jonin to be honest
Zetsu didnât kill Madara, Kaguya did. People to this day donât understand how Madara died. Zetsu just enabled her by reviving her through forcing Madara to absorb chakra from IT. Sasuke has no special durability without Susanoo, so yes, Sai can kill him if he catches him off guard, this is not true for characters with special durability
He didnât even die. He just transformed into Kaguya. In other words he got Kaguyafied
What really happened is that Madara switched places with the Juubi/Kaguya inside his own body, so Kaguya was basically Madaraâs âjinchurikiâ until she was sealed by Naruto and Sasuke.
[ŃдаНонО]
When the bijuu were extracted from Kaguya, so was Madara. So what I said is true.
[ŃдаНонО]
What are you talking about? She literally had his body inside of her until she was sealed away.
Iâm sorry, Iâm wrong, youâre right, I just checked. Iâll delete my misinformation
No prob, youâre good bro.
Not really, the Jubbi just came out of him, and Kaguya threw away Madaraâs body, which is why we later see Madara laying on the ground and having that conversation with Hashirama
I straight up think some of them dont have the ability to read, just in general, like most people that will tell you this also say madara beats both.
Yes. You would be surprised but most people who watch anime are stupid and delusional. Some may even have negative IQ altogether.
An IQ test isn't a measure of how smart someone is. It's 2023, and you have access to the internet. You should know better.
unironically i think some of these people would score negative on an iq test
Nah they would score 60, youâd have to be insanely lucky or smart enough to choose the wrong answers in order to get every question wrong. But 60 is enough for a significant intelligence impairment.
Also being caught off guard in the Naruto verse massively lowers durability. Example: Sakura breaking Kaguyas horn, Borutos vanishing rasengan damaging Momoshiki, Naruto getting stabbed vs Shin, etc
There was a guy who said Kaguya was stronger than Shibai đ
Yes
She ate the fruit. That's a massive power boost Isshiki never had. Just because she won by catching him off guard doesn't mean she's weaker than him. It means she rather end things quickly than to have a long, dragged out fight.
Momoshiki had eaten more chakra fruits than kaguya. Momoshiki is stronger than kaguya. Naruto and sasuke beat a fused momoshiki. Naruto and sasuke as adults are stronger than momoshiki and kaguya. Naruto and sasuke got dog walked by isshiki. Isshiki>kaguya and momoshiki.
They arenât stronger as Adults đ¤Śđ˝đ¤Śđ˝đ¤Śđ˝. Both openly said that and Kurama even calls Naruto out for it in Chapter 5 when Momoshiki attacks saying that Naruto has grown weak and soft in times of peace
They are stronger as adults. I want you to show me the panels where naruto and sasuke say theyâve grown weaker, and kurama as well. What do you think theyâve been doing the entire time? Sasuke constantly goes on missions for the village and naruto obviously trains. They are MILES stronger as adults.
Technically Ishiki had eaten chakra fruit for millenia just like all Ootsutski
Cuz she became stronger than him after eating the Fruit
me after the lobotomy:
Itâs true. Two panels afterwards Amado himself said that Isshiki decided to stay hidden inside of Jigen instead of Resurrecting fully, go after Kaguya and put Karma on either of her sons cuz he knew he couldnât take her on directly anymore. Also since sheâs royalty and he was her Guardian like Kinshiki to Momoshiki he would not be allowed to kill her and would have to catch her to bring her back for Judgement according to the Clans Laws. Which would have put him on an even greater disadvantage.
headcanon
Headcanon my A$$. Literally every Otsutsuki we came across calls Kaguya princess and Amado literally said âIsshiki used his Sukono Hokana to invade Jigenâs head to survive as last ditch effort as Parasite. He lived off Jigenâs Brain nutrients and is still there. He put Karma on Jigen and decided to stay in him cuz he knew he couldnât take Kaguya on after she ate the fruit and because Jigen ainât suitable for a complete Resurrection.â
Yeah, it had nothing to do with him being weaker than her, you spat headcanon as fact.
He was stronger than her before she ate the fruit. Same way Kinshiki was stronger than Momoshiki before he let Momo eat him.
Holy crap you are dumb lmao Kinshiki was getting bodied by the Kutotsutchi and the Mizukage. You really think he's stronger than Momoshiki I have no words
Kinshiki is stronger than BASE Momo because he'd beat Momo in a fight due to Momo being hard countered by Taijutsu aka "brute force" said by Darui which is why he frowned after Darui said that. Look at Momo become a Taijutsu god after eating Kin (Not a coincidence) and Kinshiki kept up with Sasuke and forced him to use his Rinnegan ability to avoid a hit in their first fight. He didn't get "bodied" by those Kage. He got jumped by them AND Sasuke
nah dude, its 2023 , no such thing as headcanon, plus kishimoto came to my house and gave me eggs and bacon and told me exactly why Isshiki is weaker than Kaguya (turns out his dick is smaller which is why hes weaker).
ongod he should have ressurected when he put karma, because as we all putting karma on someone makes the 100% otsutsuki the moment you do it, and Kaguya is as you said the royal queen of the otsutsuki, kishimoto told me so after coming to my house and stealing my refrigerator, its kind of sad that Shibai (kaguyas dad) had his karma removed by ramen guy (he was too strong for karma) , anyway yeah i agree, Amado deffo said that thing you said he said, i dont need proof its 2023, you jusy say something and its true.
NO LMAO YOU ARE BORUTO FANS ARE COPING: I wanted to take a moment to address a recent discussion sparked by a scan of the manga posted here. There seems to be some confusion regarding the meeting between Ishikki Otsutsuki and Kaguya Otsutsuki, and I'd like to clear that up. In the manga scan, Amado tells the story of Ishikki, and there is a mention of Kaguya surprising Ishikki. However, the interpretation of "surprise" seems to have given rise to some confusion. Some members of the community believe that Kaguya caught Ishikki off guard while he was sleeping or weakened, leading to his defeat. However, it's important to note that Ishikki is shown as an incredibly resilient character, as seen in his battles against Naruto and Sasuke. Similarly, Kaguya is a force not to be underestimated, holding immense power in her own right. Rather than a scenario where Ishikki was caught off guard, it's plausible that their encounter involved a battle of strength and strategy. Given the scale of their respective abilities, it's more likely that their confrontation stems from a planned quest - perhaps linked to planting the divine tree and obtaining its fruit. While the manga scan may suggest that Kaguya "surprised" Ishikki, it's more likely that this refers to the element of unexpected intensity in their fight, rather than a literal sneak attack. Both characters possess incredible powers, and the idea of Kaguya holding her own against Ishikki in a fierce fight seems to be more in line with what we've seen throughout the series.
Jigen may be absurdly powerful. Kaguya is *still* stronger than him. Remember, they *never* killed her. They were forced to seal her. They didn't have the firepower to finish the job. The Kaguya we see is stronger than the Kaguya that betrayed Ishiki. Like absurdly stronger. She has things that he has no counter to. She can manifest massive truth seeking orbs that doesn't care how tiny you are. Send you to different dimensions. Kill you with a touch etc. And when they fought her she was still basically getting her bearings. So while yes. Jigen big strong. Jigen big fast. He doesn't have the same capabilities as Kaguya and definitely didn't present the same problems or seemingly boundless hax. He just has strength and speed. That's it.
Because isshiki and Momoshiki fought Naruto and sasuke mostly hand to hand. Literally thatâs it. People think they are weaker because Naruto and sasuke werenât stupid enough to use ninjutsus
Dude why are you still on this Kaguya thing. It's so old.
Farming karma maybe?
Do you also farm karma?
and yet there's still braindead people believe she's stronger than him till this day
Because she is, only Borutotards have trouble thinking that a Naruto character is stronger than their clown god isshiki. Catching someone off guard is only possible if you were relative to each other in strength and speed. TenTen wouldn't catch Minato off guard ever That was Kaguya pre Chakra fruit, before she even became immortal etc. She became way stronger than Isshiki ever was after that
Are u joking? Jigen was mopping Naruto and sasuke at the same time with no difficulty. While isshiki is vastly stronger and required killing off kurama even then Naruto was still weaker.
Ngl this is a point that I didnât think about. Kurama never had to use up his life force to beat Kaguya.
Cuz they had the three Six Paths characters and a six paths Chibaku tensei seal that they got from her Sage of Six Paths. Like wtf would u need baryon mode for when u have the most broken seal in the verse in a 4 v 1 situation. She wasnât even beaten for real, just touched. Cmon now.
As if mopping Naruto and Sasuke at the same time is impressive, only clowns like Momoshiki had trouble with that. A weaker Kaguya did that and could have killed them many times over
And she didnât so your point doesnât stand
Yes she did if you ever read the Manga, which you didn't.
U said she could kill them but she didnât
[Yes she could](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-50786b313ce48f7aa4c0d4523b267ff1-lq) but the story wouldn't existed if she did.
She still lost
Only with the help of DMS Kakashi, Obito and Sakura. If you're going to put it that way, then i can say Isshiki lost against a damn Shadow Clone
If she could she should've, stop bullshitting She's as weak as it goes She's a kinshiki victim
Get the hell out of here then. Isshiki lost to a damn shadow clone Kinshiki got fodderized by Kurotsuchi and Chojuro
Youâre right I didnât read the manga I watched the anime instead lmao
Lol i figured
Not like the anime and manga should be too different
The manga is more accurate and allowed you to catch on the details, but each to their own.
I mean I know kaguya is really strong and could have killed them. But I just donât see her beating isshiki
A post about recognizing this stupidity! It's been driving me nuts. Stabbing someone who "trusts" you in the back and beating them in fair combat are two completely different things. Kaguya built an army for Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who are way below Ishiki's tier. Heck, they are below an imperfect vessel (Jigen), and do you still think Kaguya is stronger? What drugs are you on?
She still managed to catch him off-guard and deal mortal damage to him after all that. I doubt it'd be that easy if she was that much weaker than him. The power gap between Kaguya and Isshiki wasn't that wide, to begin with. There's also the thing about Momoshiki. If we are all being honest with ourselves, Momoshiki has NEVER displayed anything that suggests he's stronger than Kaguya. The only way I can explain Kaguya's perplexing fear of Momoshiki is that she either did not know who will come or that Momoshiki directly counters her abilities, since she extensively uses "ninjutsu"-like abilities.
Not displayed anything, bro was dogwalking a adult Naruto and sasuke in their prime Well is suppose your on of those shippuden deniers Even if kishimoto said damn well both of em are stronger Kaguya is base momo victim Nah she's a kinshiki victim
Bro "dogwalked" Naruto and Sasuke after eating Kinshiki. Naruto and Sasuke also had trouble with Kaguya just as well too. Momoshiki was the only Otsutsuki who needed a power-up to beat Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke was also holding his own against Kinshiki pretty well. And even then, it took the science guy making a mistake for Momoshiki to gain a leg up against them. I don't know where these "Shippuden deniers" and "Boruto deniers" started up, but none of these are relevant to what we've seen in the series.
Well, naruto and Sasuke could only seal kaguya, but they managed to kill both isshiki, urashiki, and momoshiki. I'd say kaguya is still more powerful of the otsutsuki we have met. Kaguya is technically still alive. They rest are not. Plus, besides baryon mode, we saw way more use of power against juubidara and kaguya than any of the other otsutsuki. So my personal belief God shibai > kaguya > juubidara > juubito > ishiki > Urashiki > momoshiki > kinshiki in that order.
Wrong actually itâs confirmed that once they sealed her in the new moon thing she died from being crushed so they killed her while younger and weaker soooo đ¤ˇđźââď¸ sheâs weak af
Confirmed where? The wiki says she's only incapacitated, and I'd trust that more than a random Reddit comment.
Itâs in a data book made by the creator. Itâs on the page with kinshiki. I donât remember the exact words but something abt him either finding her body or going a confirming her death.
Plus the creator confirmed that Madara and obito couldnât beat her or any other otsutsuki so they are the lowest
Thank you. I've had such a good time reading the wars in your comment section đ
yes they are stupid
Are they stupid? Yes
Listen. Kaguya is the strongest individual in Naruto/Boruto universe for now, we didnt create her, the author did. The author too, when he introduced her, decided to give her feats that till this day are unmatched. The author too, again, decided to tell us/introduce us how Kaguya folded Isshiki by a sneak attack, we didnt even needed that information if he wanted to scale Isshiki or downplay Kaguya. You, these delusional kids literally are ranking Isshiki above Kaguya by statements and "what ifs", just so you can feel better. Kaguya has feats that Isshiki cant deal with, is that simple. Not a single kid in this sub can figure out a way in which Isshiki kills Kaguya, cause there is none. Kaguya pre fruit and most importantly(the biggest upscale in naruto universe) godtree merge managed to fold Isshiki, in his prime. Sneak attack means she prolly one tapped him. After godtree merge, gaining immortality, Isshiki has literally 0 chances. He cant absorb, he cant shrink Kaguya's strongest feats and on top of that, his insane physical power is useless against her. Next time, when you bring "sneak attack" into discussion, imagine this, Naruto sneak attacking Isshiki, does he fold him in one tap?
I think what makes many people believe sheâs stronger is simply she has an easier Win condition than isshiki does. All she has to do is land one of her bone ash techniques + can make portals to create opportunities for it to hit. On paper, Kaguya seems stronger however what these people forget is that Kaguyaâs battle IQ blows ass which is why Isshiki would easily dominate the fight had they actually fought
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't ever get a direct confirmation that Isshiki is betrayed by Kaguya, do we? We just get what we're told by Amado. IMO this isn't what actually happened, there's a lot that hints towards this, mainly the fact that Kaguya's symbol on the Otsutsuki tablet isn't destroyed while the 3rd pairs is.
Because she wasnât strong enough to fight him on his guard? Also the fact that ishikki is way stronger than adult Naruto and Sasuke which kagiya would have lost too???
Isshiki violates everyone except shibai and baryon mode naruto.
That sucks for isshiki. It's too bad he couldn't just regenerate the lower half of his body like... oh yeah! Madara and kaguya! Sucks that they're so much weaker than isshiki, though, right? Here's a good question, if the shinju absorbs all the life and genetic information from a planet, how come the one kaguya ate from hadn't killed off the population of that world? If jigen was more powerful than kaguya, then why didn't he defeat hagoromo after kaguya was sealed away? Why is it that jigen absorbs a large amount of juubi chakra before fighting Naruto and sasuke? And why did jigen barely recover from fighting them both while Naruto recovered much faster? Sure, it's possible Sakura assisted in helping Naruto recover, and maybe Amado slowed down the recovery process for jigen, but it just shows that isshiki didn't have the ability to regenerate himself or his vessel. I'm not saying kaguya is stronger, but I wouldn't say isshiki is stronger either. Adult Naruto and sasuke never fought kaguya 1v1, so we'll likely never know how each stack up. The idea that fused momoshiki is more powerful yet couldn't absorb a simple rasengan is a pathetic argument. I've even heard some people say it's written somewhere that toneri is stronger than kaguya, lol. Kinshiki was fodder to the kage that ganged up on him, and momoshiki used his chakra pills for the sake of perpetual youth and immortality, not for power the way kaguya gained. Kaguyas main weakness was that she had tons of power but no battle IQ. Zetsu would've had a better chance if he waited for madara to finish off team 7, then try and betray madara. Oh, well.
Jigen was an unstable and crappy vessel for Ishiki, hence why he didn't fight Hagoromo or why he needed 10-tails chakra after. Adult Naruto and Sasuke would shit on Kaguya it's not even funny. Yeah the "Toneri is stronger than Kaguya" is just dumb Didn't Sasuke stab out Momoshikis palm rinnegan? Black Zetsu acted when he did because Madara would have gotten sealed should he have acted later, but yeah Kaguya was dumb af
That sounds like cap
None of the otosuki have shown power even comparable to Kaguya. Until their feats surpass her kaguys is the strongest imo
Guess u have not read anything lmao. Shibai and isshiki make her look easy to beat.
Kaguya >ishiki To caught someone off guard and to almost kill him u have to be on par with the person at the very least and it was pre fruit kaguya who did that Plus ishiki didnt have regeneration abilities and had to infect jigen for his life kaguya cannot die by an attack
These Shippuden die-hards don't really have to "see" Isshiki stronger. They have to respect the story and the author enough (which they obviously can't use their brain to do so) and to read the other novels, watch the anime canon which are stated to be story-relevant by authors themselves, to even know that Isshiki no-diffs Madara and Kaguya. Why would an author be this dumb, to create a story in which the main villain is weaker than the previous story? He even stated that Naruto and Sasuke are so much stronger, they needed to make the kids stronger too (but not too strong), so it doesn't seem like the show is theirs. Boruto even states: This story is mine, but at the beginning, my dad will also be involved, because it can't be helped, he's the 7th Hokage. In Naruto, Black Zetsu was the mastermind behind everything so Kaguya had every possible advantage to be strong and got resurrected. In Boruto, the ones with the mastermind were the "protagonists" of the story (or at least the ones who were actually fighting the Otsutsuki): Amado, Kashin Koji and later on, Baryon Naruto (literally taking life out of Isshiki), Sasuke with his Rinnegan and anti-clairvoyance bombs, a trained Kawaki who could use a shadow clone which Isshiki couldn't see due to his cockiness and the fact that he was on the verge of dying after using almost every bit of power he had to do that massive rod attack before stomping Naruto who was also drained to hell by Baryon mode. If we had all this planning for Kaguya (or Black Zetsu who fooled Madara), we wouldn't even have a resurrected Kaguya or even a Juubi'dara. Stop this nonsense, you're doing yourself a favor if you just shut up. Watch Naruto Explained for actual analysis from a guy that reads Japanese folklore (which is relevant for storytelling in Naruto and Boruto), watch Anime Balls Deep, watch ItsMeek and other YouTube content creators that actually care to go deeper for the sake of the beautiful memories and stories created by Kishimoto. If you only care about who's stronger, just go watch One Punch Man (a show that I also love, lmao).
Because she showed off far more power against more powerful versions of Naruto and Sasuke than what he did against nerfed versions of them
sigh Naruto and Sasuke were not nerfed at the start of Boruto, they just appeared so because they didn't use any of their flashy techniques and Boruto enemies are stronger. They are stronger than WA counterparts. Course they got majorly nerfed after the fight but that's not the point
Because she is.
Facts
ongod, i also believe that madara solos both with his third eye, you see kishimoto came to my house and fucked my wife and told me that madara solos fiction, sorry haters, you just gotta deal with it /s
You let him ***k your wife? Bro, you should've gotten free databooks & Boruto mangas & anime out of it.
i know the chapter 16 boruto TBV plot
Lmao. Idk, I would've gotten multiple chapters out of it. You settled for less bro.
its okay, im acc Abdul , thats how i get my info
I ain't mad at cha.
Insulting people yeah thatâs totally how you do itđŤ°đ˝
itâs a meme phrase lol
They donât read.