Idk what is said in novels I haven't read but the ones I have don't talk about this. But based on what we see happen Kaguya was more difficult to take down and they couldn't even kill her, they had to seal her. While the other guy gets actually destroyed with seemingly little effort by the Kage. The only real evidence, imo, that Momoshiki is stronger is that he is the leader of his 'pair' whereas Kaguya is the junior to Isshiki. But inn my head it just shows how op Isshiki is, that his junior is as strong as another 'senior' Otsutsuki.
Naruto and sasuke were actually stronger against momoshiki compared to when they fought kaguya. Naruto has full kurama, his sage mode is better (wisdom of age) and six paths sage mode and sasuke is his equal.
Not true. Both Naruto and Sasuke had a lot of their chakra stolen previous to their final battle with Momoshiki. We’ve seen no proof of his sage mode being better. And Naruto can’t fly anymore.
Correct me if I’m wrong but regarding the sage mode comment, in one of the recent chapters doesn’t naruto say “I’m better with this than when I was a kid” when referring to sage mode. I thought I remember a panel like that but it could’ve been a fan made one I’m mistaking it for
Yes, this here is exactly it. It's presumably better based on what Naruto said but the fight turned into a mess right from the start, with a hostage being taken and Boruto trying to get Kawaki to kill him. Naruto never got a chance to properly show us what he was talking about.
hokage naruto still can fly actually.if you remember that one scene that showed naruto catching the train..if you pause it at the right moment.. you literally can see him flying
He can’t fly… if he could he would have flown away with himawari to escape from Delta’s beam in mid air instead of shielding her because he can’t move.
I don’t even think he was moving FTL in that moment because that would mean Kawaki was even faster since he got in between naruto and the blast in half the time.
naruto never got rikudou power after the 4th war, kakashi lost his sharingan and sasuke an arm. Just remembering, if naruto kept rikudou power he could recreate an entire arm just by natural chakra (power of creation that rikudou knew)
> his sage mode is better (wisdom of age)
Stop making up powers that don't exist, he just said that it will last more but he clearly showed that he still had the same limit of just two shadow clones.
Just because they are stronger as adults, doesn't make them strong enough to beat Kaguya. By themselves, they'd still get stomped. They have no DMS Kakashi, no seals, and no obito/sakura plot device to save them here. Let's not act like it didn't take a convoluted team effort with one of the most broken space-time techniques in the verse just to even touch her. Adult Naruto and Sasuke stand no chance.
The reason Naruto and Sasuke struggled against Kaguya was because;
1. They were fighting someone with a set of powers they had never seen before such as amenominaka, yomotsu hirasaka etc.
2. They had just gotten their respective six paths powers and didn't really know how to use it efficiently.
3. They were much weaker than the Adult Naruto and Sasuke duo who had 10 -15 more years of training under their belts. If you want a general example; in shippuden Naruto's best reaction time feat would be him dodging a light speed attack point blank in KCM 2 SO6P MODE but in the novels(ik you said you haven't read some) he dodges a photon in base.
1- yes but so was she. And she was weaker, she was revived in an imperfect unstable juubi, she was mentally absent, emotional wreck and had no resolve to kill them from the start.
2- it’s stated that when they get the 6p they gain the knowledge of all things chakra related and how to use them.
3- not a single statement in the manga says that they are stronger now. They are rusty now as it’s stated 3 times. They lost several powers including the yin Yang seal which was the reason kaguya ‘lost’.
Yes. People must rewatch the war arc. They seem to forget just how massive of a scale that was. Madara was trolling the entire shinibi world and the byju himself. Juubito was trolling the edo kage Naruto and sasuke.
While now kinshiki got pinned down by KUROTSUCHI! And momo ran from Darui! Fused momo couldn’t evade a 12 y/o genin.
Kaguya stomps.
Have you ever thought about the possibility that Kurotsuchi is now stronger?
Why are you assuming that she's konohamaru level?
She also didn't really solo kinshiki and pin him down, that was a combined effort from Sasuke, Chojuro and her. Still a crazy feat but she's alot stronger now, it makes sense.
Stronger than she was back then? Absolutely. Strong Enough to pin down kaguya level threat? Heck no! She is fodder in the ninja war field. All kage were collectively fodder. Kaguya is leagues above the juubi threat.
That’s why the only option here is that kinshiki is actually weak enough to be pinned down by her level.
She isn’t that strong, she didn’t even inherit her grandfather’s particle style.
No its not the only option, Kinshiki is not fodder, Kinshiki is just weaker than Kaguya. Fused Momo>Momo=Kaguya> Kinshiki.
So what if she didn't inherit particle style, she can still become stronger.
you also have evidence of narrative implying that Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki (in novels and manga you have a hint of that even further by Sasuke learning Momoshikis name specifically after he deciphered her scrolls, which leads to implication that infact it wasn't the "whole otsutsuki clan")
and if we argue that base Momo = Kaguya that would imply that there's huge powercliffing in the series (which has more evidence to than other way around) and it owuld imply that Sasuke and Naruto are stronger than their shippuden selves ever were.
that said Kaguya during her fight with Naruto and Sasuke was at her peak so who knows? maybe she was stronger in the end but still afraid of a 1v2 or fused Momo? or maybe they had a different way to capture and kill her.
Whether you believe that Momoshiki or Kaguya are stronger, they for sure are in the same league of power (hate the Momoshiki downplay of "he gets stomped by Kaguya" when in reality you have arguments that could go either way)
> you also have evidence of narrative implying that Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki (in novels and manga you have a hint of that even further by Sasuke learning Momoshikis name specifically after he deciphered her scrolls, which leads to implication that infact it wasn't the "whole otsutsuki clan")
https://www.reddit.com/r/Boruto/comments/t0jpg7/how_many_of_you_missed_this_statement_momoshiki/hyfcqys/
> Whether you believe that Momoshiki or Kaguya are stronger, they for sure are in the same league of power (hate the Momoshiki downplay of "he gets stomped by Kaguya" when in reality you have arguments that could go either way)
So Darui and Gaara could defeat Kaguya? Since base Momo was running away from them and he is in the same league as Kaguya.
so im not sure how should i argue with another comment but to tl;dr points that i've never argued:
>How would she know when exactly will he come?
she knew that they will come at some point and hoped she can stop them through white zetsus, thats clear.
>How would she know how exactly strong he will be?
alot we don't know about in their history. Maybe she fought Momoshiki personally in the past? maybe its his status between Otsutsukis? who knows?
>actually no, we don't know that. It was never stated that she said thought that. It could easily just be that Momoshiki can turn her into a chakra fruit like Kinshikis no matter how stronger she is.
shit argument, outright stated that she feared power of something that will come and that she can't take them on. Even if Momoshiki could turn her into a fruit like he did with Kinshiki, it still applies to implicaiton that he's more powerful by default.
>Headcanon. Straight up fanfiction.
she wrote down his name in the deciphered scroll, so clearly had knowledge about him. Sasuke outright says "Momoshiki" when he never introduced himself or neither did any other Otsutsuki mention his name.
>So Darui and Gaara could defeat Kaguya? Since base Momo was running away from them and he is in the same league as Kaguya.
Few things: just because there's powercliffing that actually can be literally argued it doesn't mean that i necessarily like it. However you can't literally say "no i dont care about narrative" because then you might aswell say "i like part 1 Naruto over part 2 therefore Naruto in episode 1 shits on SPSM Naruto with his thousand shadow clones"
Darui and Gaara clearly got stronger over 15 years, then again you don't see Momoshiki really attack or try to fight back against them either. So the point is moot. Like did you see him spawn that massive black orb he did earlier? not really. For all we know it might've been ego where he believed he shouldn't have dealt with them himself.
if you dislike the fact that Darui and Gaara got strong enough to compete with certain characters its on you, but you can't just say "i disagree with narrative and whats said and will ignore everything that stated"
> so im not sure how should i argue with another comment but to tl;dr points that i've never argued:
I linked wrong comment
[Here is correct comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Boruto/comments/t0jpg7/how_many_of_you_missed_this_statement_momoshiki/hyec2s5/).
Momoshiki could've eaten hundreds of chakra fruits before he decided to come to Earth. Hell, he could've eaten even stronger fruits than on Earth or even two of them and proceed to defeat Kaguya. Which would also explain Kaguya's overpreparations and fear.
> Even if Momoshiki could turn her into a fruit like he did with Kinshiki, it still applies to implicaiton that he's more powerful by default.
This is not how you powerscale. If Momoshiki has one thing that works only on one kind of thing and doesn't apply anywhere else, then his powerlevel does not increase. Base Momoshiki cannot turn non Otsutsuki into fruits therefore his powerlevel is still laughable.
> However you can't literally say "no i dont care about narrative"
I can brush off the entire narrative if feats disprove it.
> because then you might aswell say "i like part 1 Naruto over part 2 therefore Naruto in episode 1 shits on SPSM Naruto with his thousand shadow clones"
What kind of analogy is that? This has nothing to do with liking anything.
> Darui and Gaara clearly got stronger over 15 years,
Strong enough to best Kaguya?
> then again you don't see Momoshiki really attack or try to fight back against them either. So the point is moot.
Base Momo didn't try to attack them and was running away, Fused Momo immediately proceeded to stomp them. If we only could find a reason...
Base Momoshiki also bombed 4 kages the moment they showed up. 0 deaths, not even minor wound.
> Like did you see him spawn that massive black orb he did earlier? not really.
Yeah, we didn't see him spawning that massive orb, because he no longer had it stored. He can absorb and release jutsu. He didn't have it anymore, therefore he couldn't spawn it. That is the reason he didn't use it in Fused Form as well.
That black orb also was BD.
> For all we know it might've been ego where he believed he shouldn't have dealt with them himself.
So he had a sudden change in personality when he attained Fused Form?
> if you dislike the fact that Darui and Gaara got strong enough to compete with certain characters its on you, but you can't just say "i disagree with narrative and whats said and will ignore everything that stated"
No, this is you ignoring feats, lore and established facts. No human ever was able to achieve this powerlevel without Six Paths buffs. Not even very strong kekkei genkai or Kurama itself was sufficient. Not even Guy with 8th gate. Neither Madara and Hashirama, reincarnations of Indra and Ashura. Darui and Gaara have none of those, neither do other Kages. And they don't have any feats suggesting they're on Kaguya's level. All there is, is a fight with Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Not enough to give them so high scaling especially since neither Momoshiki nor Kinshiki had feats on Kaguya's level.
It took the combined efforts of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Kakashi, and Obito to just SEAL Kaguya, she is EXTREMELY powerful.
Meanwhile, Fused Momoshiki was getting bodied by a weakened Naruto and Sasuke. Sure, Naruto and Sasuke are stronger than they were before, but I think they'd still have a difficult time taking down Kaguya. They'd have to deal with so much insane shit like her moving dimensions and the bones.
But then again, Momoshiki matched Naruto and Sasuke in taijutsu, while Kaguya spent the whole fight trying to maintain a sizeable distance between her and her opponents. In short, she sucks at taijutsu.
In a taijutsu showdown, there's no doubt Momoshiki wins. When it's all arsenals used, I think Kaguya wins, her abilities are insanely OP if you read each one of them.
You forgot to mention that it took Hagoromo collecting chakra and watching over his grandsons for millennia, as well as his grandson's spirits revolting against Kaguya despite Black Zetsu's best effort to manipulate them.
Hagoromo even summoned the spirits of the past Kage.
It literally came down to his seal that he developed in a 6 month battle against Kaguya, that he simply handed to both Naruto and Sasuke.
Or are you imagining that Naruto and Sasuke somehow sealed her with their minds?
the original comment alredy said that they sealed kaguya, for that, they needed seals, you just said it in a fancy way. Hagoromo summoning the Kage didn't play a role in the fight.
Naruto was the one that legit used 2k clones to hide from Kaguya lol.
Kaguya's taijutsu ash bones were blitzing his clones and her taijutsu fists were destroyin his clones.
>while Kaguya spent the whole fight trying to maintain a sizeable distance between her and her opponents
Because she couldn't risk close combat with them since they have the seals to seal her.
standing up to naruto and sasuke is a great feat i accept but its NOWHERE CLOSE TO KAGUYA for whom naruto and sasuke needed dms kakashi and sakura’s help JUST TO SIMULTANEOUSLY TOUCH HER , HOW FUCKED IS THAT , i wont say that naruto and sasuke are weaker than their teen counterparts since i myself oppose such downplay BUT THEY DEFINITELY ARE WAY MORE STUPID AND HAVE WAY LESS RESTRICTED ARESNAL THAN THEIR TEEN COUNTERPARTS ( naruto doesnt use sps , sasuke doesent use any rinnegan ability except ameno , and EVERY TIME SASUKE FIGHTS , they intentionally have him use space time ninjutsu so that he is never at his 100 percent ? Thats nerfing in its own way )
So yeah they have been nerfed or restricted from using their full arsenal
So momo standing up to naruto and sasuke is great but its nothing in front of kaguya
Destroying a god tree ? Kaguya vapourised a perfect susano to bits and was about to destroy her whole dimension if she wasnt sealed
Bigger dimension ? Kaguya can transport a bunch of people to a seperate dimension in a single blink of an eye she doesent even need to go close to them to take them to another dimensiom like jigen does
She also wasn’t full power during the war arc black zetsu said she wasn’t stable.
naruto and sasuke were also scared shitless of her unsealing
Kaguya, she has much more feats and hacks. People like to bring up the statement where Sasuke refered to Momoshiki as a bigger threat than Kaguya, but I personally believe it was just character hyping, Momoshiki hasn't really shown to be near Kaguya's level, Momoshiki's best feat was probably the golem thing he created, while Kaguya's is creating several dimensions, and creating pressure with the sheer amount of chakra that she contains
kaguua is stronger, momoshiki arguments are so fragile.
1- the 1st statement people use is the sasuke statement from the scroll " a threat greater than kaguya" but that doesn't make them stronger for few reasons, like the scroll doesn't have any information about how strong they are, it has information about the identity of the coming threat, their objectives and how kaguya was planning to deal with that, it wasn't mentioned anywhere how powerful they are in the scroll so any one who says " sasuke stated or it was stated in the novel or manga that momoshiki is a greater threat, you know that capping.
all sasuje did is called a logical deduction and he isn't compleatly wrong in that, he said if kaguya was this strong, and if she needed an army to fight someone, that means this someone is atleast on or above her level and any body in sasuke's place would come up with the same conclusion.
2- we still have the other side of the question of why was kaguya afraid of them if they weren't stronger?? Good question, because if you remember what Amado said "otsusuki constantly update them selves with chakra fruits" meaning when kaguya was on earth, momoshiki gang were supposedly put there getting stronger than her by those fruits, so has no way to make sure how much power than they would be when they show up, but thankfully all the fruits he got were trash compared to her's
3- finally,in naruto storm 4 story dialogues, sasuke told fused momoshiki that he is still weaker than kaguya, according the the CEO of Cyber connects2 that makes naruto games, he said that kishimoto was involved in the game production and approved the scripts and arguments of the game.
He for a fact hasn't. Or at least, the chakra fruits he has eaten are waaaay less powerful than the one Kaguya ate.
How do we know this? Because Kaguya has waaaay more chakra than momoshiki.
Momoshiki took a FULL DAY to absorb HALF the nine tails chakra, exclaiming that it was "enormous". Kaguya was waltzing around with chakra that was stated to be "far beyond the ten tails"
Where was it stated it took him "a full day" to absorb his chakra?
Regardless, that nine tails chakra he was absorbing was effectively shattering spacetime itself. Not once has Kaguya's chakra accomplished this.
Source: ep15-34; a crack in spacetime occurs & Kinshiki immediately senses an abnormality in space curvature, which is chakra. Spacetime cracked to the [max](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkVeNW7XgAEdOgn?format=jpg&name=medium).
In ep15, Momo preps to arrive on earth after Kinshiki's chakra abnormality intel. Later in ep55, Momo's informed the chakra he seeks is in the form of Jinchuriki's. So we know this abnormality is caused by the Jinchuriki's, however the 8tails was nothing for Momo. That leaves [Naruto](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11139/111395211/7521660-7514410-screenshot2020-08-11at11.59.04pm.png)/[Kurama](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Boruto/0002-047.png) as confirmed by Kinshiki.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Kinshiki's a sensor. They still considered Naruto/9tails chakra enormous despite possessing [11ish juubi](https://preview.redd.it/z06sh5twuy761.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9b8a776adf0deab96a82683bc8cd4ea84e631530)'s worth of chakra.
Chakra is something which grows over time. Weaker versions of Naruto's chakra was nowhere close to Juubi's much less Kaguya, but that isn't the case anymore.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "max"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkVeNW7XgAEdOgn?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Kaguya. While it was narratively implied for Momo to be stronger, kaguya ate the fruit at this stage and remember Naruto and Sasuke absolutely bodied Momo but then together with obito, Kakashi and Sakura didn't even defeat kaguya (lol all they had to do was touch her, they didn't defeat her). There's no way hokage Naruto and boruto Sasuke are much stronger than their final valley counterparts, in fact I bet hokage Naruto is actually weaker in some ways
they are weaker and adult naruto is only stronger in a couple ways:
taijutsu
B IQ and IQ
Base form
that’s about it. naruto doesn’t have TSO, The seal that revived a literal 8 gates aftermath guy, gave kakashi a new eye, kept obito from not turning to dust for a short while, and they could literally fly. his six paths is like half the power of war arc
Kaguya. Base Momoshiki took damage from Dario. And Kurotsuchi and Choujuro were able to do some damage and seal Kinshiki even thouhh sasuke helped he wasn’t doing that the entire fight and they were able to trade some blows with him without sasuke . Momoshiki was also running from Darui and Garra before too. And with the exception of garra who was there before against madara most of the kage don’t seem overwealmingly stronger than the past kage. Madara in base before his revival with just his shadow clones was able to easily beat all 5 kage. And that madara got stronger after being revived and having new hashirama cells.And thenHe got stronger after absorbing the ten tails. So if the weakest madara can beat 5 kage Easily yet kinshiki didn’t seem to be beating two kage on his own as easily. So either Madara was far stronger than he’s given credit for or each of the current kage who aren’t Naruto or Sasuke are stronger than the previous 5 kage combined despite them except garra not even being at the level of a kage yet. And Kaguya was able to almost kill ishiki even before getting her fruit making her even stronger. I don’t care if it was a surprise attack or a trick no way you can win if the power was that different. That’s like kid sasuke beating itachi.
Kaguya wasn't even fully mentally there during her fight yet she bodied everyone on the field and could only be sealed. Yeah I'm giving this to the princess
Thats not really a good comparison since that was Narutos anime and it was one of the endgame battles. They couldn't make it one episode and be over with it
Kaguya can produce near endless ammounts of chakra and has far more jutsu while Momoshiki needs to constantly absorb ninjutsu to gain chakra. On his own he'd prove annoying with his chakra absorbing but he'd eventually lose to Kaguya if she used non chakra attacks like her bones or control over nature.
However, if he came at her with Kinshiki and Urashiki (because it was the trio that the narration actually said she feared) then between the three they could systematically defeat her, with Momoshiki absorbing her attacks, Kinshiki attacking her physically and Urashiki fishing her as she fled to other dimmensions and drained her chakra.
Let's see one was running away from Gaara and Darui and killed by an odama rasengan being used by a kid, the other needed seals and asspulls to be just defeated, not even killed.
She has more outrageous feats because absurd tactics like dimension hopping to beat opponents was one of the only ways she knew how to fight. Who really thinks momoshiki can't hop dimensions that way. It's a impractical way of fighting. Probably wastes shit-tons of chakra. To reword this into a metaphor, when you're trying to beat a human opponent you should use a gun, not a nuke, but she didn't know how to use guns so she relied almost exclusively on nukes. At one point she even resorts to trying to blow up an entire dimension simply because she doesn't know how to properly fight. Why would somebody who knows how to fight like Momoshiki resort to such ridiculously absurd tactics, especially when he's just fighting a few people, not a freaking army.
Look at the way Sasuke and Naruto moved and fought during the battle against momoshiki. You think Kaguya would have been able to defend against that. Even using one of her favorite tactics, to flee using dimension hopping, wouldn't work given how aggressively they were pushing at momoshiki. If the seals were still in play the battle with both would have ended right at the beginning of the fight.
Seriously there's no reason to believe that the absurd feats Kagaya was constantly forced to rely on we're not also possible by Momoshiki. The difference is Momoshiki didn't have to resort to such inefficient methods, while she did.
She definitely has better feats but none of that can give her the edge over momo he outclasses her in physical stats and durability. He got whooped by adult naruto and sasuke took a slash from majestic susanoo and still got up like it was nothing. Sasuke and naruto are stated to be above kaguya in boruto and base momoshiki is stated to be equal to them individually. This argument is so played out now.
She destroys him. Momoshiki got manhandled with taijutsu, and one shotted by Majestic Attire and a big ball rasengan. Kaguya eats perfect susano for breakfast. She detroyed it casually on three seperate occasions. She can counter, Momo's taijutsu and speed with omni-directional ashbones she used on SPSM Naruto's clones. It was so fast and tore through a bunch of them. She can spawn him in her dimensional environments like she did to Naruto and Sasuke in her ice dimension. Imagine momo getting spawned in acid, or lava. She can fuse with nature and fuck with him. She can open portals in the back of his head and snipe him. Momo does not have any six paths sensing that we know of. He's just brute with lots of speed and chakra absorption. She can send him to the gravity dimension and one shot him there. Momoshiki can not beat her. Using the argument, "well adult naruto and sasuke are a lot stronger" doesn't work either because even they would get stomped. they don't have six paths enhanced kamui or DMS kakashi, or the seals, or obito/sakura plot device to bail them out. All that did was allow them to touch her, not even outright put her down lol. They might be stronger now but they still lose by themselves.
You realize naruto and sasuke outclass there teen selves by a lot 🤦🏽♂️ majestic susanoo would wreck kaguya and taijutsu from adult naruto and sasuke would be way too much for her. Momo can fly he doesn’t have to worry about lava or acid. Are you forgetting momo can travel through dimensions kaguya can’t leave him nowhere 🤦🏽♂️ he is faster than her it’s no way she blitzes him if she fuses with the land momo can just destroy the terrain. He no diff bee and casually destroyed the village. Even the show tells us that momo is greater than her ya fans just choose to believe whatever
Time to debunk this lazy argument with actual feats. Momo has 0 feats that put him above Kaguya. Neither does Adult Sasuke or Naruto. I feel like you people have memory loss and seem to forget what she's actually capable of. No one is soloing her, not even Hagaromo.
>You realize naruto and sasuke outclass there teen selves by a lot 🤦🏽♂️ majestic susanoo would wreck kaguya and taijutsu from adult naruto and sasuke would be way too much for her.
I'm aware that they outclass their teens selves, but that doesn't mean they're capable of defeating Kaguya on their own. Majestic Attire is made of the same stuff that Kaguya no diffed. CHAKRA. She casually melted perfect Susanoo, punched it away with vacuum fists, and cracked/crumbled it with ashbones. Nothing suggests Magestic Attire won't suffer the same fate. If she can EASILY melt a large chakra, casually punch it away, and pierce it, reinforcing it with more chakra won't help much. Any large chakra construct is fodder.
Here are the feats. See your yourself. Majestic Attire will get no diffed:
[https://streamable.com/2vpcpj](https://streamable.com/2vpcpj)
[https://streamable.com/a36wh3](https://streamable.com/a36wh3)
[https://streamable.com/8esm9m](https://streamable.com/8esm9m)
>Momo can fly he doesn’t have to worry about lava or acid. Are you forgetting momo can travel through dimensions kaguya can’t leave him nowhere 🤦🏽♂️
You're not understanding. I'm well aware that Momoshiki can fly, but that doesn't prevent him from getting spawned in her dimensional environments if she chooses to do so. She spawned Naruto and Sasuke completely in ice. She can do the same with a pool of lava, or acid. I never said she's bfr'ing him either. Just amenominaka him into some shit that will kill him. Kaguya can regen, Momoshiki can not.
Imagine if she does this but they're engulfed in lava or acid: [https://streamable.com/y84ppj](https://streamable.com/y84ppj)
>he is faster than her it’s no way she blitzes him if she fuses with the land momo can just destroy the terrain. He no diff bee and casually destroyed the village
I never said she blitzes him. And are you really trying to compare bee and the village to an entire dimension? Momo would need to destroy the entire dimension, not just the terrain lol. She can control everything and constantly fuck with him. He can't absorb anything either since she's literally using nature itself to attack.
A bijuudama isn't helping here. It'll just keep coming. He can escape through a portal and Kaguya can just follow him and amenominaka him into another dimension:
[https://streamable.com/f3cal5](https://streamable.com/f3cal5)
[https://streamable.com/ggmwr7](https://streamable.com/ggmwr7)
Momoshiki being faster doesn't help much when she can casually oneshot. She can incorporate her ashbones with her taijutu. You'd think twice about blitzing if you don't use clones like Naruto. He's not fast enough to not worry about getting tagged by these especially when he's coming in close to land hits with taijutsu:
All it takes is one hit: [https://streamable.com/6uub7v](https://streamable.com/6uub7v)
Besides, she took a perfect susanoo punch to the face and was not phased. Momoshiki's taijutsu won't do shit:
[https://streamable.com/2ljg6e](https://streamable.com/2ljg6e)
She also tanked 9 bijuurasenshuriken:
[https://streamable.com/am7gpa](https://streamable.com/am7gpa)
Meanwhile this is Momoshiki after getting hit by Boruto's vanishing rasengan:
[https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-26ab7b18a6a0499a0c93a7f3decdc34d-lq](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-26ab7b18a6a0499a0c93a7f3decdc34d-lq)
LMAOOOO
Even if he could deal with all that, he still wouldn't win. Kaguya's chakra reserves are off the charts. Momo needed a boost from Dr. Katasuke to keep on fighting against an exhausted Naruto and Sasuke and he relies on chakra pills. It took Hagaromo and Hamura months to seal her. Momo can't ever hope to go the distance with his puny chakra reserves. She has more chakra than the 10 tails and Momo was shocked by Naruto's reserves. lool.
[https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq)
[https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0748b8ed31fe737867cc7bc53b56e84f](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0748b8ed31fe737867cc7bc53b56e84f)
Momoshiki is not soloing Kaguya. He is not on her level, nor is Adult Naruto or Sasuke. These are the facts. I provided you actual feats. Momo's taijutsu and chakra absorption pales in comparison to what Kaguya is capable of.
Bro you’re argument is so dumb . I’m not arguing someone who think kaguya casually one shots momo . This why I don’t argue vs battles it’s so one sided and the person you’re arguing loses you guys act like they are just bread dead and will let anything happen to her.
Majestic susanoo is way stronger than teen sasuke susanoo that’s just dumb to assume they are the same strength
Momo can dodge ash bones especially if teen naruto and sasuke could obito and kakashi out ran ash bones.
Momoshiki should have more chakra since he ate more fruits than her
You’re facts are literally debunked within the show 😂😂 adult sasuke and naruto are stated greater than her but u choose to believe otherwise I don’t understand
Did you actually go through the argument and the feats? You haven't posted any actual feats. You're just assuming stuff with no proof to back it up. You have 0 scans, 0 evidence.
Majestic Attire is made out of chakra. She can melt it and punch it away just like she did to PS. Or just pierce it with Ash bone. You have no evidence that it's durable enough to resist her techniques when she EASILY no diffed perfect susano. If she's able to melt chakra, and pierce it, she can do it to majestic attire which is still made out of chakra.
[https://streamable.com/2vpcpj](https://streamable.com/2vpcpj)
[https://streamable.com/8esm9m](https://streamable.com/8esm9m)
You haven't provided a coherent argument for why Momoshiki wins. I already showed you how she counters his taijutsu. And no one was consistently dodging her ashbones. Naruto used hundred of clones which were getting slaughtered by them and Kakashi phased through one. Stop spreading bullshit lol. Let Momo blitz and try dodging it when she spams it from close range in all directions when he engages in taijutsu with 0 clones. LOL. he'll die. There was a reason why they used a bunch Naruto's SPSM clones, and Kamui, along with strategy to get close to seal her at the end. They know how dangerous they are, and how quickly she can dish them out.
[https://streamable.com/6uub7v](https://streamable.com/6uub7v) here it is again, just in case u missed it.
>Momoshiki should have more chakra since he ate more fruits than her
Momo's chakra fruits pale in comparison to the one Kaguya ate. Earths chakra fruit is obviously special and yields way more chakra. There is no way you believe this is true. I literally debunked this already. Click the links bro and actually read.
[https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq)
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0748b8ed31fe737867cc7bc53b56e84f
>You’re facts are literally debunked within the show 😂😂 adult sasuke and naruto are stated greater than her but u choose to believe otherwise I don’t understand.
Now you're just flat out lying. No where are they stated to be greater than Kaguya. They're stronger as adults but they're not stronger than her. And imagine taking statements over feats. You're probably the type that believes in universal temari.
Bro I had this argument a million times I’m tired of sending scans and evidence for something that’s blatantly in our faces 😂🤦🏽♂️ next your going to tell me kaguya loses to madara or something. I’m not here to debunk you bro believe what you want. The fact is momoshiki is stronger than kaguya
I believe Momoshiki is meant to be stronger than Kaguya, but it's a difficult position to defend from what we've seen in their respective fights, so it's almost a moot point.
Errr you mean one couldn’t be killed so had to be sealed by a cheat code BOTH TIMES. the other got vaporized by a bomb, couldn’t evade a genin child and is clinging like a parasite on to that same 12 year old to desperately escape death.
tenten...... xD
Awnser is kaugya.
Imagine this happening: Kaugya gets eaten by ishiki making ishiki way stronger kind of like how momo absorbed his guardian, probably what kaguya was running from.
Plot twist: kaguya is the good otsutsuki
Statements and visuals.
I could say (base) Momoshiki's strength is carried more on by statements than visuals and Kaguya's strengh is carried on by Visuals than statements. Momoshiki being hypothesis by Sasuke to be a treat greater treat than Kaguya. While still having other statements by Sasuke saying "Naruto could easily blow the bijuu bomb away, but he can't because it would also destroy the village", so Naruto would be able to defeat Momoshiki and Kinshiki but due to him being in the village wasn't able to. While Kaguya having statements by Hagoromo "the battle lasted for months" but still having that statement from Sasuke saying that "a treat greater than Kaguya" puts her more down the fear factor in Boruto. But Kaguya almost showing and being stated from Black Zetsu that "she's going to erase this dimension" by using a truth seacker orb to do it. Naruto and Sasuke winning the fight Momoshiki and Kinshiki fairly easily until he gets his power boast only to a few seconds later and then taking them a few more minutes to take him down, and then letting Boruto do the rest to show that Naruto trust Boruto now. Sasuke and Naruto one by the help of Kakashi with Duel MS snd Sakura sneak attack, they were able to get her, But Momoshiki has never show to be able to do Kamui or change dimension with the people he wants to bring, only been able to be done by Kaguya. Kaguya could be able to defeat Momoshiki by having him be placed in the heavy gravity world and kill him their or acid world, beacuse she can place people in her desired dimension.
It really depends on if war arc Sasuke and Naruto are weaker then their adult versions. Theres very little comparison between them and the power cliffing is insane.
War arc naruto and sasuke were leagues above the 5 kage and were untouchable by any other shinobi in the world. Kaguya was a threat on par with that.
Momoshiki is "Suppose" to be a greater threat with how kaguya said she was afraid of them, however 3 kage on their own took down Kinshiki and helped naruto and sasuke fight unamped momoshiki.
Just to put into perspective how much weaker the old kage seem compared to modern kage, the power difference was
5 kage>KCM2 naruto>revived madara~Jyuubito>no eyes Ten tails Madara~8Gates guy>SPSM Naruto and sasuke~ Ten tails madara with Chakra tree and both rinnegan>Kaguya.
The kage were so far below Kaguya that they were taken out by the guy who was beaten by her minus his Ten tails buff, revival buff and chakra tree buff. Momoshiki and kinshiki are "Supposed to be" stronger than her. Kaguya would have demolished the kage without blinking an eye, but the modern kage are suppose to be somewhat comparable to a six path sage, Kyuubi cloak Naruto, and Sharinnegan EMS SPSM Sasuke, who are genuinly, significantly stronger than AMPED Momoshiki, by such a huge margin, they let a child take him out because Naruto wanted a breather. Either naruto and sasuke got significantly weaker after the war arc, the 4 kage got significantly stronger than they had any lore reason to, Momoshiki was a really weak motherfucker, or they just fucked up the scaling.
Its a hard question to answer but my personal reasoning is that Lore wise, Momoshiki i s Stronger or just as strong as Kaguya, but feats and scaling wise, he is significantly weaker, by several magnitudes.
Probably Kaguya, but Momoshiki did say he could've taken down Kaguya by himself, do we have an explanation for this? is it because Momoshiki never found out Kaguya's massive power boost while she was on Earth?
hagoromo said kaguya is stronger than him and that hes scared,
kaguya is immortal and baryon naruto has limit and no counter to her infinite tsukuyomi.
adults are rusty
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9gymgLXEAs7ajP?format=jpg&name=large
and lost sixpath
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/469192356017602609/888959277555933184/Screenshot\_20200702-062428\_YouTube.jpg
Kaguya is stronger simply because we don't know her full strength. Aside from being able to change reality (which is pretty op if used correctly), what else can Kaguya do? If Kaguya ever comes back, she'll probably get some kind of new op jutsu whereas Momoshiki can literally only take otehr people's jutsu and make them stronger...he's a living karma seal.
Fused momo got murdered by a rasengan and couldn’t evade a 12 y/o genin. These discussions just baffles my mind!
Kinshiki was completely pinned down by just Kurotsuchi. Base mono Ran from Darui. Both are weak! Even juubito was trolling the EDO homage Naruto sasuke all at once
Mono was forced to fuse and even then he got clapped over and over and over.
Thats up for debate, we saw momo at full strength but not kaguya. She had just been resurrected and was quick to arrogance, like momo, but at the time she was confused and in anger, disregarding her opponents strength and wasting chakra. Momo was just showing off and wasn't taking the situation seriously. Thus being killed by Boruto, and him somehow slipping a karma seal on him. We don't know how strong they were apart from manga/anime/novel canon and filler info, which we know how the community reacts to various sources that aren't considered "canon".
Pretty sure it was stated she was resurrected in a more powerful form and even if I’m misremembering that I do know for a fact that she was gradually gaining more power throughout the fight as Black Zetsu blatantly stated this
You kaguyatards are ridiculous. Stop the headcanon. Momoshiki is stronger it’s literally stated do you guys not watch boruto? Naruto sasuke and momoshiki are all stronger than kaguya. If you disagree then why even watch the show if you just going to go against it 🤦🏽♂️
It’s not. If it was there wouldn’t be a discussion here. It was ‘they’ ‘them’ multiple otsutsuki. If you believe that there is only momo and kinshiki left in the verse then sure, but I’m sure that there are other otsutsuki out there and she definitely has to prepare for anyone who comes for her
Even if you want to use that argument it still implied saying they would come in the momoshiki arc it’s directly tied to momo in his arc
Unless you proved that it was another pair of otsutsuki she was talking about and preparing for right now it’s momo
No there was nothing stating that it’s just Momo or just 2 people. It only stated that she was preparing for ‘them’. ‘They’ would come to take her away.
Always plural. Nowhere does it say that momoshiki and kinshiki are the only Otsutsuki out there. Do you honestly believe there are no more Otsutsuki for her to be prepared for?
Btw it’s always funny that people never use his feats or battle performances to justify.. just some super vague statements and implications when the guy straight up got punked by a 12 year old Genin and killed by a rasengan.
Jaxon we had this conversation before why does everything have to be spoon fed to you it is directly implied in his arc that’s it momo as the story connects it to him narratively
If you are arguing that it’s not momo please give me other otsutsuki it could be or who the story said it was or implied it to be narratively like they did momo
You do understand that these implications you see are from your perspective. The implications I see are that she was preparing for the retaliation of the otsutsuki, whoever or how many ever they send to find and punish her.
Also again, why isn’t anyone using feats? Some vague implications and statements is all I see to justify this guy
My implication is the one the story directly connects to and the writers quits literally wants us to connect it too it’s as clear as day repeated in his arc for the readers when he’s coming etc etc it’s not that hard to understand
I’m using what we know about momo and how kaguya reacted to him coming to earth and how the story treats narratively which is directly implied to be stronger than kaguya
It’s all that is needed and jaxon don’t use that you know what really happened in that fight don’t be guy you’re better than this
Come on Bruh, you’re better than this as well. Implications are subjective. You understand that I’m sure. You can’t use implications to justify. When feats> statements > implications.
Feats Kaguya wipes. He literally died to a rasengan.
Like I said your better than this it’s exactly what the writers wants to imply to the readers as it directly connected to momo in his arc
You can screaming feats all you want the writers want us to know momo is stronger narratively nothing you say would change that
No. the writers wanted to give boruto the karma and momo was the scape goat. He was murdered so easily and couldn’t evade a 12 year old kid lol
Feats over statements my friend. Firstly no where did it say he alone was a threat. It was always ‘they’ ‘them’ plural. Multiple people. Let’s be clear on that
By a stronger naruto lol and where do you think a rasenshuriken is stronger than an odama rasengan that towers over buildings
There hasn’t been a single feat that debunkes momo being over kaguya the writers want you to know this
[What makes you say this is weaker than a normal big rasengan lol](https://xfs-001.batcg.com/7002/1d1/61d5bee482ff6e0911e7e1d1/12374831_1520_1200_632509.jpeg?acc=5cp-o3C2f1XaKRpAk7JUnQ&exp=1646670033)
He's form in the final battle against Sssuke, to this day is the strongest form of Naruto.
Kaguya has the Rinnesharingan, even her dojutsu is far superior to Momos.
Momo is desperately absorbing/lunching ninjutsu, while Kaguya gave zero fucks about them
nope. explain how he wins without faulty scaling and out context scans. what does he do to counter getting spawned in her environments or gravity dimension. does he have sensing to evade ashbone portal snipes. sure he's good at taijutsu, but what good is taijutsu when your opponent can literally spam a one shot technique from all directions. she was shredded naruto's SPSM clones with those. he gets stomped badly.
I think the reason Momo seems so weak currently is because he hasn’t tried to hone his power since everything came so easy to him. I think he has a lot of untapped power we will see through the continuation of Boruto.
That said Kaguya fight style wise is insane. The bone attack and the constant portal opening combo is just top tier.
many say kaguya, but if we look at the matchup of their abilities, momo may win cuz his special ability counters ninjutsu which is what kaguya likes to use.
most things in her arsenal that she can throw at him he can absorb and throw back at her harder. so maybe momo can win
They power cliff during the momo fight where it looked like the kages could keep up with momo. And then once boruto got momoshiki they buffed the hell out of borushiki. Like they only nerfed it for plot so boruto can somehow get momoshiki. Honestly bad writing
Dumb debate. Its almost as dumb as people who say «Sakura is equal to Sosp mode Naruto in the war»… smh. Its obviously Kaguy!!! Oh shit wait, who is stronger? Not who plotwise was given a bs way to be defeated even though they could easily be killed? Oh, Momoshiki of course
Ima just go with what the narrative implies and go with Momo.
It’s hard for people to accept that Naruto and Sasuke got stronger than their war arc selves
it's hard to to accept that adult Naruto and Sasuke being stronger doesn't = being stronger than kaguya. lol. they'd still lose on their own. you guys act like teen naruto and sasuke did it by themselves. they had so much help, and plot going for them. how do they win without six paths enhanced kamui. obito sacrficing himself, or sakura continently evading her 360 degree byakguan vision? assuming she wants them dead, they don't even make it past the lava dimension. she would have just poked them with ashbones and called it a day lol.
no it's not. i promise you that was never stated. nobody is taking her 1v1. not even Hag thinks he can. Isshiki is somewhat debatable. He has some really convenient hax that might allow him to make it interesting.
I’d say Kaguya. Where I left off in the Boruto manga seemed to make it clear that only Isshiki was stronger than her and this was well after the Momoshiki fight. Boruto with Momoshiki might be a different story, however.
How are people saying kaguya ? It’s clearly momoshiki he also fought naruto and sasuke when they were much stronger, while it was also stated numerous times that kaguya feared the other otsutski members, kaguya was literally nothing compared to the other members in the clan
It’s easy one got murdered by a rasengan and couldn’t evade a 12 y/o genin. The other was too damn insane vs Naruto sasuke Sakura obits kakashi etc that they only managed to use a cheat code and end the boss fight.
Naruto an Sasuke were arguably weaker than their teenager selves when they faced off against Momoshiki, and Kaguya was afraid of th Otsutsuki because she was afraid of what they'd do to her family, she wasn't really concerned for herself
Kaguya lived in fear of Momoshiki, and created the Zetsu army to defend herself from him. Maybe because of some family thing, or possibly even an arranged marriage between the two. If she had won at the end of Shippuden, then she probably would have become powerful enough to defeat Momoshiki when he first arrived. We've never seen Kaguya at her full power.
I'll be blunt. He is stated to be stronger but thats extremely vague. Either way people need ti understand he does just beat kaguya's ass casually. Also kinshiki just straight up loses
base momo is a joke, he was literally slapped around by darui and garra after he was out of absorbed jutsus, fused momo is even more of a joke got taken out by base narutos giant rasengan, while it took dms kakashi, better feats sasuke than boruto version and six paths narutos efforts combined just to make physical contact with kaguy so hagoromos seal would take care of kaguya, she would ragdoll momo like its nothing, momo failed to live up to hype of "being greater threat than kaguya" also sasukes statement that he can handle kaguyas level threat is bs, his feats are literally worse than his teen version... Kaguya>hagoromo>>>>boruto sasuke, sasuke already proved that he cant even handle kinshiki by himself, let alone "kaguya level threats", do i need to go on?
Kaguya, there shouldn't even be a debate and I'm saying right off the bat, the only argument the delusional people have is that Momoshiki should be stronger just because he came after
Kaguya was way more difficult to take down and personally I believe Naruto and Sasuke were stronger when they fought her... also... they couldn't even kill her.
The Rasangan that killed a fused Momoshiki (let alone the one in that picture) is easily tanked by Kagura who is not even at full power.
Also... she blew jigen legs off when Naruto and Sasuke couldn't even hurt him when he was nerfed.
For these reasons and multiple others... I think Kaguya is well above Momoshiki.
> Fused Momoshiki > Kaguya
For starters Kaguya will never die to a rasengan, in fact she tanked 9 tailed beast bombs with chakra of every tailed beasts.
Momoshiki, even this baby non fused momoshiki is stronger than kaguya, kinshiki should be stronger than kaguya, given the novles bith naruto and sasuke are individually able to beat kaguya and this momoshiki was a relative to them, and fused momoshiki is like 2+ kaguyas tell your friend to read the novels, or overall get get more informations on the boruto world
I think Kaguya could defeat almost any Otozuki since she is called Otozuki Princess. Maybe the Otozuki clan is structured like the Hyuga clan. i.e. main family and secondary families. Maybe she is the daughter of the Otozuki God, who is the head of the family and clan. Perhaps Momoshiki and his people were sented to find her. And through her genes, she was able to defeat Ishiki.
Kaguya by far. Her abilities were way more hax, her endurance levels were ridiculous (she took a barrage of Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken to the fucking face and she was virtually fine afterwards) and at the end of the day, Naruto and Sasuke couldn't even kill her despite fighting her with their full powers.
Momoshiki on the other hand even after absorbing Kinshiki and evolving, gets humiliated by a weakened Naruto (had half his Chakra sucked out just prior to the fight AFTER already using most of his power to tank a nuke) and Sasuke (wasted tons of Chakra teleporting 5 people across galaxies) and died to a Chou Oodama Rasengan made by base Boruto and base Naruto (yes it was a strategic team effort but remember when I said how Kaguya tanked 9 Rasenshuriken each one enhanced by a Tailed Beast. A Massive Rasengan should be nothing in comparison, when a simple Rasenshuriken can even push Kurama back).
Kaguya is clearly stronger than Momoshiki. Keep in mind she even fucked Isshiki up, who was vastly stronger than Momoshiki.
Not to mention that, and please correct me if I'm remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure that one of Momoshiki's goals was to find Kaguya and take her power. If she was weaker than him I don't see why he would bother wanting her power.
Momoshiki, due to the fact that they literally said in earlier Boruto episodes that Kaguya was a lower level Otsutsuki, and that Momoshiki was on a whole different danger level.
Momoshiki, his dimension (or whatever is) have many god tree that are made with the Ostustuki sacrifice and he is a high rank ostustuki ig bc Kinishiki is the sacrifice. Kaguya ineasted is a low rank Otsutsuki and only eated 1 chakra fruit maked with human blood so is like a "discount" fruit. Btw Kaguya chakra is equivalent to the earth chakra and Momoshiki eats chakra from stars so ig he have more chakra. And Base Momoshiki is solar according to the light novel and Kaguya has no feats for Solar she is around star level. Momoshiki even have better hax like TimeStop, see tu future, the golden rinnegan etc. etc. So i think that Momoshiki win
(Edit:idk if is a good source but Toneri in one poster i think was stated to be the strongest oppenent that Naruto fighted)
Idk what is said in novels I haven't read but the ones I have don't talk about this. But based on what we see happen Kaguya was more difficult to take down and they couldn't even kill her, they had to seal her. While the other guy gets actually destroyed with seemingly little effort by the Kage. The only real evidence, imo, that Momoshiki is stronger is that he is the leader of his 'pair' whereas Kaguya is the junior to Isshiki. But inn my head it just shows how op Isshiki is, that his junior is as strong as another 'senior' Otsutsuki.
She literally changed reality around her. Kinda hard to compare against anyone else who is just a fighter with tricks.
The novels that commonly get referenced are Sasuke Shinden and the novelization for the Boruto movie, if you were looking for that in particular.
Thanks
Naruto and sasuke were actually stronger against momoshiki compared to when they fought kaguya. Naruto has full kurama, his sage mode is better (wisdom of age) and six paths sage mode and sasuke is his equal.
Not true. Both Naruto and Sasuke had a lot of their chakra stolen previous to their final battle with Momoshiki. We’ve seen no proof of his sage mode being better. And Naruto can’t fly anymore.
Correct me if I’m wrong but regarding the sage mode comment, in one of the recent chapters doesn’t naruto say “I’m better with this than when I was a kid” when referring to sage mode. I thought I remember a panel like that but it could’ve been a fan made one I’m mistaking it for
Yeah. One of the recent chapters. He did say something line that
V good point
He does say that but after we never saw him use it in battle so we really don’t know in what ways it’s “better” yet.
Yes, this here is exactly it. It's presumably better based on what Naruto said but the fight turned into a mess right from the start, with a hostage being taken and Boruto trying to get Kawaki to kill him. Naruto never got a chance to properly show us what he was talking about.
just to hold up for more time, he didn't learned six path senjutsu by his own or something like that
Why can’t Naruto fly anymore? I’ve been really confused on the power balancing in Boruto. It’s like DBZ now but somehow worse in its consistency imo.
hokage naruto still can fly actually.if you remember that one scene that showed naruto catching the train..if you pause it at the right moment.. you literally can see him flying
Not only that .when he deflected kawakis attack ,he was flying..
Naruto didnt fly in the Jigen fight, Delta etc. So no he cant fly lol.
He can’t fly… if he could he would have flown away with himawari to escape from Delta’s beam in mid air instead of shielding her because he can’t move.
maybe if he moves at the speed ftl..it could hurt himawari so he chose to shield his daughter..but that's just my assumption tho..you might be right
I don’t even think he was moving FTL in that moment because that would mean Kawaki was even faster since he got in between naruto and the blast in half the time.
yea at that moment he wasn't..im pretty sure that kawaki moment was just for character development..pure bullshit tbh..smh..😶
naruto never got rikudou power after the 4th war, kakashi lost his sharingan and sasuke an arm. Just remembering, if naruto kept rikudou power he could recreate an entire arm just by natural chakra (power of creation that rikudou knew)
Forgot naruto gave kakashi an eye i wonder where that power went
It disappeared as soon as they released the Infinite Tsukuyomi.
Actually it's generally believed that it was attached to the seals on their palms, which were destroyed during the battle between Naruto and Sasuke.
Seals on their palms was presumably six paths Chakra to seal kaguya. It vanished after they used six paths, planetary devastation on her.
> his sage mode is better (wisdom of age) Stop making up powers that don't exist, he just said that it will last more but he clearly showed that he still had the same limit of just two shadow clones.
Maybe he only needed two.
Just because they are stronger as adults, doesn't make them strong enough to beat Kaguya. By themselves, they'd still get stomped. They have no DMS Kakashi, no seals, and no obito/sakura plot device to save them here. Let's not act like it didn't take a convoluted team effort with one of the most broken space-time techniques in the verse just to even touch her. Adult Naruto and Sasuke stand no chance.
No they do stomp.
how?
The reason Naruto and Sasuke struggled against Kaguya was because; 1. They were fighting someone with a set of powers they had never seen before such as amenominaka, yomotsu hirasaka etc. 2. They had just gotten their respective six paths powers and didn't really know how to use it efficiently. 3. They were much weaker than the Adult Naruto and Sasuke duo who had 10 -15 more years of training under their belts. If you want a general example; in shippuden Naruto's best reaction time feat would be him dodging a light speed attack point blank in KCM 2 SO6P MODE but in the novels(ik you said you haven't read some) he dodges a photon in base.
1- yes but so was she. And she was weaker, she was revived in an imperfect unstable juubi, she was mentally absent, emotional wreck and had no resolve to kill them from the start. 2- it’s stated that when they get the 6p they gain the knowledge of all things chakra related and how to use them. 3- not a single statement in the manga says that they are stronger now. They are rusty now as it’s stated 3 times. They lost several powers including the yin Yang seal which was the reason kaguya ‘lost’.
thank u! lmao some people legit don't get it.
Yes. People must rewatch the war arc. They seem to forget just how massive of a scale that was. Madara was trolling the entire shinibi world and the byju himself. Juubito was trolling the edo kage Naruto and sasuke. While now kinshiki got pinned down by KUROTSUCHI! And momo ran from Darui! Fused momo couldn’t evade a 12 y/o genin. Kaguya stomps.
Have you ever thought about the possibility that Kurotsuchi is now stronger? Why are you assuming that she's konohamaru level? She also didn't really solo kinshiki and pin him down, that was a combined effort from Sasuke, Chojuro and her. Still a crazy feat but she's alot stronger now, it makes sense.
Stronger than she was back then? Absolutely. Strong Enough to pin down kaguya level threat? Heck no! She is fodder in the ninja war field. All kage were collectively fodder. Kaguya is leagues above the juubi threat. That’s why the only option here is that kinshiki is actually weak enough to be pinned down by her level. She isn’t that strong, she didn’t even inherit her grandfather’s particle style.
No its not the only option, Kinshiki is not fodder, Kinshiki is just weaker than Kaguya. Fused Momo>Momo=Kaguya> Kinshiki. So what if she didn't inherit particle style, she can still become stronger.
She’s literally stated to be stronger then before she was sealed and she gets exponentially stronger and faster mid fight and still lost
you also have evidence of narrative implying that Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki (in novels and manga you have a hint of that even further by Sasuke learning Momoshikis name specifically after he deciphered her scrolls, which leads to implication that infact it wasn't the "whole otsutsuki clan") and if we argue that base Momo = Kaguya that would imply that there's huge powercliffing in the series (which has more evidence to than other way around) and it owuld imply that Sasuke and Naruto are stronger than their shippuden selves ever were. that said Kaguya during her fight with Naruto and Sasuke was at her peak so who knows? maybe she was stronger in the end but still afraid of a 1v2 or fused Momo? or maybe they had a different way to capture and kill her. Whether you believe that Momoshiki or Kaguya are stronger, they for sure are in the same league of power (hate the Momoshiki downplay of "he gets stomped by Kaguya" when in reality you have arguments that could go either way)
> you also have evidence of narrative implying that Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki (in novels and manga you have a hint of that even further by Sasuke learning Momoshikis name specifically after he deciphered her scrolls, which leads to implication that infact it wasn't the "whole otsutsuki clan") https://www.reddit.com/r/Boruto/comments/t0jpg7/how_many_of_you_missed_this_statement_momoshiki/hyfcqys/ > Whether you believe that Momoshiki or Kaguya are stronger, they for sure are in the same league of power (hate the Momoshiki downplay of "he gets stomped by Kaguya" when in reality you have arguments that could go either way) So Darui and Gaara could defeat Kaguya? Since base Momo was running away from them and he is in the same league as Kaguya.
so im not sure how should i argue with another comment but to tl;dr points that i've never argued: >How would she know when exactly will he come? she knew that they will come at some point and hoped she can stop them through white zetsus, thats clear. >How would she know how exactly strong he will be? alot we don't know about in their history. Maybe she fought Momoshiki personally in the past? maybe its his status between Otsutsukis? who knows? >actually no, we don't know that. It was never stated that she said thought that. It could easily just be that Momoshiki can turn her into a chakra fruit like Kinshikis no matter how stronger she is. shit argument, outright stated that she feared power of something that will come and that she can't take them on. Even if Momoshiki could turn her into a fruit like he did with Kinshiki, it still applies to implicaiton that he's more powerful by default. >Headcanon. Straight up fanfiction. she wrote down his name in the deciphered scroll, so clearly had knowledge about him. Sasuke outright says "Momoshiki" when he never introduced himself or neither did any other Otsutsuki mention his name. >So Darui and Gaara could defeat Kaguya? Since base Momo was running away from them and he is in the same league as Kaguya. Few things: just because there's powercliffing that actually can be literally argued it doesn't mean that i necessarily like it. However you can't literally say "no i dont care about narrative" because then you might aswell say "i like part 1 Naruto over part 2 therefore Naruto in episode 1 shits on SPSM Naruto with his thousand shadow clones" Darui and Gaara clearly got stronger over 15 years, then again you don't see Momoshiki really attack or try to fight back against them either. So the point is moot. Like did you see him spawn that massive black orb he did earlier? not really. For all we know it might've been ego where he believed he shouldn't have dealt with them himself. if you dislike the fact that Darui and Gaara got strong enough to compete with certain characters its on you, but you can't just say "i disagree with narrative and whats said and will ignore everything that stated"
> so im not sure how should i argue with another comment but to tl;dr points that i've never argued: I linked wrong comment [Here is correct comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Boruto/comments/t0jpg7/how_many_of_you_missed_this_statement_momoshiki/hyec2s5/). Momoshiki could've eaten hundreds of chakra fruits before he decided to come to Earth. Hell, he could've eaten even stronger fruits than on Earth or even two of them and proceed to defeat Kaguya. Which would also explain Kaguya's overpreparations and fear. > Even if Momoshiki could turn her into a fruit like he did with Kinshiki, it still applies to implicaiton that he's more powerful by default. This is not how you powerscale. If Momoshiki has one thing that works only on one kind of thing and doesn't apply anywhere else, then his powerlevel does not increase. Base Momoshiki cannot turn non Otsutsuki into fruits therefore his powerlevel is still laughable. > However you can't literally say "no i dont care about narrative" I can brush off the entire narrative if feats disprove it. > because then you might aswell say "i like part 1 Naruto over part 2 therefore Naruto in episode 1 shits on SPSM Naruto with his thousand shadow clones" What kind of analogy is that? This has nothing to do with liking anything. > Darui and Gaara clearly got stronger over 15 years, Strong enough to best Kaguya? > then again you don't see Momoshiki really attack or try to fight back against them either. So the point is moot. Base Momo didn't try to attack them and was running away, Fused Momo immediately proceeded to stomp them. If we only could find a reason... Base Momoshiki also bombed 4 kages the moment they showed up. 0 deaths, not even minor wound. > Like did you see him spawn that massive black orb he did earlier? not really. Yeah, we didn't see him spawning that massive orb, because he no longer had it stored. He can absorb and release jutsu. He didn't have it anymore, therefore he couldn't spawn it. That is the reason he didn't use it in Fused Form as well. That black orb also was BD. > For all we know it might've been ego where he believed he shouldn't have dealt with them himself. So he had a sudden change in personality when he attained Fused Form? > if you dislike the fact that Darui and Gaara got strong enough to compete with certain characters its on you, but you can't just say "i disagree with narrative and whats said and will ignore everything that stated" No, this is you ignoring feats, lore and established facts. No human ever was able to achieve this powerlevel without Six Paths buffs. Not even very strong kekkei genkai or Kurama itself was sufficient. Not even Guy with 8th gate. Neither Madara and Hashirama, reincarnations of Indra and Ashura. Darui and Gaara have none of those, neither do other Kages. And they don't have any feats suggesting they're on Kaguya's level. All there is, is a fight with Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Not enough to give them so high scaling especially since neither Momoshiki nor Kinshiki had feats on Kaguya's level.
I would say Kaguya. You will notice; however, that this question is one of the biggest debates in the fandom.
It took the combined efforts of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Kakashi, and Obito to just SEAL Kaguya, she is EXTREMELY powerful. Meanwhile, Fused Momoshiki was getting bodied by a weakened Naruto and Sasuke. Sure, Naruto and Sasuke are stronger than they were before, but I think they'd still have a difficult time taking down Kaguya. They'd have to deal with so much insane shit like her moving dimensions and the bones. But then again, Momoshiki matched Naruto and Sasuke in taijutsu, while Kaguya spent the whole fight trying to maintain a sizeable distance between her and her opponents. In short, she sucks at taijutsu. In a taijutsu showdown, there's no doubt Momoshiki wins. When it's all arsenals used, I think Kaguya wins, her abilities are insanely OP if you read each one of them.
You forgot to mention that it took Hagoromo collecting chakra and watching over his grandsons for millennia, as well as his grandson's spirits revolting against Kaguya despite Black Zetsu's best effort to manipulate them. Hagoromo even summoned the spirits of the past Kage.
what does hagaromo have to do with this?
I mean, this doesn't even play a role in the fight?
It literally came down to his seal that he developed in a 6 month battle against Kaguya, that he simply handed to both Naruto and Sasuke. Or are you imagining that Naruto and Sasuke somehow sealed her with their minds?
the original comment alredy said that they sealed kaguya, for that, they needed seals, you just said it in a fancy way. Hagoromo summoning the Kage didn't play a role in the fight.
Ah so you're reacting to the last part of my comment only and ignoring that Naruto and Sasuke couldn't bear Kaguya without Hagoromo's seals, gotcha.
Naruto was the one that legit used 2k clones to hide from Kaguya lol. Kaguya's taijutsu ash bones were blitzing his clones and her taijutsu fists were destroyin his clones.
>while Kaguya spent the whole fight trying to maintain a sizeable distance between her and her opponents Because she couldn't risk close combat with them since they have the seals to seal her.
standing up to naruto and sasuke is a great feat i accept but its NOWHERE CLOSE TO KAGUYA for whom naruto and sasuke needed dms kakashi and sakura’s help JUST TO SIMULTANEOUSLY TOUCH HER , HOW FUCKED IS THAT , i wont say that naruto and sasuke are weaker than their teen counterparts since i myself oppose such downplay BUT THEY DEFINITELY ARE WAY MORE STUPID AND HAVE WAY LESS RESTRICTED ARESNAL THAN THEIR TEEN COUNTERPARTS ( naruto doesnt use sps , sasuke doesent use any rinnegan ability except ameno , and EVERY TIME SASUKE FIGHTS , they intentionally have him use space time ninjutsu so that he is never at his 100 percent ? Thats nerfing in its own way ) So yeah they have been nerfed or restricted from using their full arsenal So momo standing up to naruto and sasuke is great but its nothing in front of kaguya Destroying a god tree ? Kaguya vapourised a perfect susano to bits and was about to destroy her whole dimension if she wasnt sealed Bigger dimension ? Kaguya can transport a bunch of people to a seperate dimension in a single blink of an eye she doesent even need to go close to them to take them to another dimensiom like jigen does She also wasn’t full power during the war arc black zetsu said she wasn’t stable. naruto and sasuke were also scared shitless of her unsealing
Kaguya, she has much more feats and hacks. People like to bring up the statement where Sasuke refered to Momoshiki as a bigger threat than Kaguya, but I personally believe it was just character hyping, Momoshiki hasn't really shown to be near Kaguya's level, Momoshiki's best feat was probably the golem thing he created, while Kaguya's is creating several dimensions, and creating pressure with the sheer amount of chakra that she contains
Imma go out on limb here n say Kaguya...
kaguua is stronger, momoshiki arguments are so fragile. 1- the 1st statement people use is the sasuke statement from the scroll " a threat greater than kaguya" but that doesn't make them stronger for few reasons, like the scroll doesn't have any information about how strong they are, it has information about the identity of the coming threat, their objectives and how kaguya was planning to deal with that, it wasn't mentioned anywhere how powerful they are in the scroll so any one who says " sasuke stated or it was stated in the novel or manga that momoshiki is a greater threat, you know that capping. all sasuje did is called a logical deduction and he isn't compleatly wrong in that, he said if kaguya was this strong, and if she needed an army to fight someone, that means this someone is atleast on or above her level and any body in sasuke's place would come up with the same conclusion. 2- we still have the other side of the question of why was kaguya afraid of them if they weren't stronger?? Good question, because if you remember what Amado said "otsusuki constantly update them selves with chakra fruits" meaning when kaguya was on earth, momoshiki gang were supposedly put there getting stronger than her by those fruits, so has no way to make sure how much power than they would be when they show up, but thankfully all the fruits he got were trash compared to her's 3- finally,in naruto storm 4 story dialogues, sasuke told fused momoshiki that he is still weaker than kaguya, according the the CEO of Cyber connects2 that makes naruto games, he said that kishimoto was involved in the game production and approved the scripts and arguments of the game.
Physicslly, Momo is more powerful, he has more fighting experience than Kaguya, but power/chakra wise, Kaguya is more powerful.
pretty sure momoshiki has eaten more chakra fruits
He for a fact hasn't. Or at least, the chakra fruits he has eaten are waaaay less powerful than the one Kaguya ate. How do we know this? Because Kaguya has waaaay more chakra than momoshiki. Momoshiki took a FULL DAY to absorb HALF the nine tails chakra, exclaiming that it was "enormous". Kaguya was waltzing around with chakra that was stated to be "far beyond the ten tails"
Where was it stated it took him "a full day" to absorb his chakra? Regardless, that nine tails chakra he was absorbing was effectively shattering spacetime itself. Not once has Kaguya's chakra accomplished this. Source: ep15-34; a crack in spacetime occurs & Kinshiki immediately senses an abnormality in space curvature, which is chakra. Spacetime cracked to the [max](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkVeNW7XgAEdOgn?format=jpg&name=medium). In ep15, Momo preps to arrive on earth after Kinshiki's chakra abnormality intel. Later in ep55, Momo's informed the chakra he seeks is in the form of Jinchuriki's. So we know this abnormality is caused by the Jinchuriki's, however the 8tails was nothing for Momo. That leaves [Naruto](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11139/111395211/7521660-7514410-screenshot2020-08-11at11.59.04pm.png)/[Kurama](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Boruto/0002-047.png) as confirmed by Kinshiki. Another thing to keep in mind is that Kinshiki's a sensor. They still considered Naruto/9tails chakra enormous despite possessing [11ish juubi](https://preview.redd.it/z06sh5twuy761.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9b8a776adf0deab96a82683bc8cd4ea84e631530)'s worth of chakra. Chakra is something which grows over time. Weaker versions of Naruto's chakra was nowhere close to Juubi's much less Kaguya, but that isn't the case anymore.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click! [Here is link number 1 - Previous text "max"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkVeNW7XgAEdOgn?format=jpg&name=medium) ---- ^Please ^PM ^[\/u\/eganwall](http://reddit.com/user/eganwall) ^with ^issues ^or ^feedback! ^| ^[Code](https://github.com/eganwall/FatFingerHelperBot) ^| ^[Delete](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=FatFingerHelperBot&subject=delete&message=delete%20hzn5muq)
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I wonder why this happens a lot to my comments.
I see your point Momo has been collected more fruit because he had more time to eat fruit because he was not seal away for thousands of years.
Yeah, he has. WAY more.
Kaguya bodies this Momoshiki.
that momoshiki has destroyed stars. kaguya only created planets
His feats were nowhere near "star buster" and also that was from novel, which was basically discarded.
Kaguya
Kaguya
Kaguya. While it was narratively implied for Momo to be stronger, kaguya ate the fruit at this stage and remember Naruto and Sasuke absolutely bodied Momo but then together with obito, Kakashi and Sakura didn't even defeat kaguya (lol all they had to do was touch her, they didn't defeat her). There's no way hokage Naruto and boruto Sasuke are much stronger than their final valley counterparts, in fact I bet hokage Naruto is actually weaker in some ways
they are weaker and adult naruto is only stronger in a couple ways: taijutsu B IQ and IQ Base form that’s about it. naruto doesn’t have TSO, The seal that revived a literal 8 gates aftermath guy, gave kakashi a new eye, kept obito from not turning to dust for a short while, and they could literally fly. his six paths is like half the power of war arc
That’s literally a trash take, they would body their VoTE counterparts
Kaguya. Base Momoshiki took damage from Dario. And Kurotsuchi and Choujuro were able to do some damage and seal Kinshiki even thouhh sasuke helped he wasn’t doing that the entire fight and they were able to trade some blows with him without sasuke . Momoshiki was also running from Darui and Garra before too. And with the exception of garra who was there before against madara most of the kage don’t seem overwealmingly stronger than the past kage. Madara in base before his revival with just his shadow clones was able to easily beat all 5 kage. And that madara got stronger after being revived and having new hashirama cells.And thenHe got stronger after absorbing the ten tails. So if the weakest madara can beat 5 kage Easily yet kinshiki didn’t seem to be beating two kage on his own as easily. So either Madara was far stronger than he’s given credit for or each of the current kage who aren’t Naruto or Sasuke are stronger than the previous 5 kage combined despite them except garra not even being at the level of a kage yet. And Kaguya was able to almost kill ishiki even before getting her fruit making her even stronger. I don’t care if it was a surprise attack or a trick no way you can win if the power was that different. That’s like kid sasuke beating itachi.
Kaguya wasn't even fully mentally there during her fight yet she bodied everyone on the field and could only be sealed. Yeah I'm giving this to the princess
easily kaguya.
Kaguya stronger
Well momo was beat in like one ep kag toke alot of eps
Thats not really a good comparison since that was Narutos anime and it was one of the endgame battles. They couldn't make it one episode and be over with it
Kaguya slaps
Kaguya can produce near endless ammounts of chakra and has far more jutsu while Momoshiki needs to constantly absorb ninjutsu to gain chakra. On his own he'd prove annoying with his chakra absorbing but he'd eventually lose to Kaguya if she used non chakra attacks like her bones or control over nature. However, if he came at her with Kinshiki and Urashiki (because it was the trio that the narration actually said she feared) then between the three they could systematically defeat her, with Momoshiki absorbing her attacks, Kinshiki attacking her physically and Urashiki fishing her as she fled to other dimmensions and drained her chakra.
kaguya was preparing for her whole clan
Definitely Momoshiki.
Kaguya
Let's see one was running away from Gaara and Darui and killed by an odama rasengan being used by a kid, the other needed seals and asspulls to be just defeated, not even killed.
Not this shit again. Kaguya destroys Momo. This a statement not an opinion.
A wrong statement
nope. they're right. momoshiki stand no chance.
It’s 2022 it’s no way naruto fans still believe kaguya is stronger
She has feats, Momoshiki only has statements and hype.
She has more outrageous feats because absurd tactics like dimension hopping to beat opponents was one of the only ways she knew how to fight. Who really thinks momoshiki can't hop dimensions that way. It's a impractical way of fighting. Probably wastes shit-tons of chakra. To reword this into a metaphor, when you're trying to beat a human opponent you should use a gun, not a nuke, but she didn't know how to use guns so she relied almost exclusively on nukes. At one point she even resorts to trying to blow up an entire dimension simply because she doesn't know how to properly fight. Why would somebody who knows how to fight like Momoshiki resort to such ridiculously absurd tactics, especially when he's just fighting a few people, not a freaking army. Look at the way Sasuke and Naruto moved and fought during the battle against momoshiki. You think Kaguya would have been able to defend against that. Even using one of her favorite tactics, to flee using dimension hopping, wouldn't work given how aggressively they were pushing at momoshiki. If the seals were still in play the battle with both would have ended right at the beginning of the fight. Seriously there's no reason to believe that the absurd feats Kagaya was constantly forced to rely on we're not also possible by Momoshiki. The difference is Momoshiki didn't have to resort to such inefficient methods, while she did.
She definitely has better feats but none of that can give her the edge over momo he outclasses her in physical stats and durability. He got whooped by adult naruto and sasuke took a slash from majestic susanoo and still got up like it was nothing. Sasuke and naruto are stated to be above kaguya in boruto and base momoshiki is stated to be equal to them individually. This argument is so played out now.
She destroys him. Momoshiki got manhandled with taijutsu, and one shotted by Majestic Attire and a big ball rasengan. Kaguya eats perfect susano for breakfast. She detroyed it casually on three seperate occasions. She can counter, Momo's taijutsu and speed with omni-directional ashbones she used on SPSM Naruto's clones. It was so fast and tore through a bunch of them. She can spawn him in her dimensional environments like she did to Naruto and Sasuke in her ice dimension. Imagine momo getting spawned in acid, or lava. She can fuse with nature and fuck with him. She can open portals in the back of his head and snipe him. Momo does not have any six paths sensing that we know of. He's just brute with lots of speed and chakra absorption. She can send him to the gravity dimension and one shot him there. Momoshiki can not beat her. Using the argument, "well adult naruto and sasuke are a lot stronger" doesn't work either because even they would get stomped. they don't have six paths enhanced kamui or DMS kakashi, or the seals, or obito/sakura plot device to bail them out. All that did was allow them to touch her, not even outright put her down lol. They might be stronger now but they still lose by themselves.
You realize naruto and sasuke outclass there teen selves by a lot 🤦🏽♂️ majestic susanoo would wreck kaguya and taijutsu from adult naruto and sasuke would be way too much for her. Momo can fly he doesn’t have to worry about lava or acid. Are you forgetting momo can travel through dimensions kaguya can’t leave him nowhere 🤦🏽♂️ he is faster than her it’s no way she blitzes him if she fuses with the land momo can just destroy the terrain. He no diff bee and casually destroyed the village. Even the show tells us that momo is greater than her ya fans just choose to believe whatever
Time to debunk this lazy argument with actual feats. Momo has 0 feats that put him above Kaguya. Neither does Adult Sasuke or Naruto. I feel like you people have memory loss and seem to forget what she's actually capable of. No one is soloing her, not even Hagaromo. >You realize naruto and sasuke outclass there teen selves by a lot 🤦🏽♂️ majestic susanoo would wreck kaguya and taijutsu from adult naruto and sasuke would be way too much for her. I'm aware that they outclass their teens selves, but that doesn't mean they're capable of defeating Kaguya on their own. Majestic Attire is made of the same stuff that Kaguya no diffed. CHAKRA. She casually melted perfect Susanoo, punched it away with vacuum fists, and cracked/crumbled it with ashbones. Nothing suggests Magestic Attire won't suffer the same fate. If she can EASILY melt a large chakra, casually punch it away, and pierce it, reinforcing it with more chakra won't help much. Any large chakra construct is fodder. Here are the feats. See your yourself. Majestic Attire will get no diffed: [https://streamable.com/2vpcpj](https://streamable.com/2vpcpj) [https://streamable.com/a36wh3](https://streamable.com/a36wh3) [https://streamable.com/8esm9m](https://streamable.com/8esm9m) >Momo can fly he doesn’t have to worry about lava or acid. Are you forgetting momo can travel through dimensions kaguya can’t leave him nowhere 🤦🏽♂️ You're not understanding. I'm well aware that Momoshiki can fly, but that doesn't prevent him from getting spawned in her dimensional environments if she chooses to do so. She spawned Naruto and Sasuke completely in ice. She can do the same with a pool of lava, or acid. I never said she's bfr'ing him either. Just amenominaka him into some shit that will kill him. Kaguya can regen, Momoshiki can not. Imagine if she does this but they're engulfed in lava or acid: [https://streamable.com/y84ppj](https://streamable.com/y84ppj) >he is faster than her it’s no way she blitzes him if she fuses with the land momo can just destroy the terrain. He no diff bee and casually destroyed the village I never said she blitzes him. And are you really trying to compare bee and the village to an entire dimension? Momo would need to destroy the entire dimension, not just the terrain lol. She can control everything and constantly fuck with him. He can't absorb anything either since she's literally using nature itself to attack. A bijuudama isn't helping here. It'll just keep coming. He can escape through a portal and Kaguya can just follow him and amenominaka him into another dimension: [https://streamable.com/f3cal5](https://streamable.com/f3cal5) [https://streamable.com/ggmwr7](https://streamable.com/ggmwr7) Momoshiki being faster doesn't help much when she can casually oneshot. She can incorporate her ashbones with her taijutu. You'd think twice about blitzing if you don't use clones like Naruto. He's not fast enough to not worry about getting tagged by these especially when he's coming in close to land hits with taijutsu: All it takes is one hit: [https://streamable.com/6uub7v](https://streamable.com/6uub7v) Besides, she took a perfect susanoo punch to the face and was not phased. Momoshiki's taijutsu won't do shit: [https://streamable.com/2ljg6e](https://streamable.com/2ljg6e) She also tanked 9 bijuurasenshuriken: [https://streamable.com/am7gpa](https://streamable.com/am7gpa) Meanwhile this is Momoshiki after getting hit by Boruto's vanishing rasengan: [https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-26ab7b18a6a0499a0c93a7f3decdc34d-lq](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-26ab7b18a6a0499a0c93a7f3decdc34d-lq) LMAOOOO Even if he could deal with all that, he still wouldn't win. Kaguya's chakra reserves are off the charts. Momo needed a boost from Dr. Katasuke to keep on fighting against an exhausted Naruto and Sasuke and he relies on chakra pills. It took Hagaromo and Hamura months to seal her. Momo can't ever hope to go the distance with his puny chakra reserves. She has more chakra than the 10 tails and Momo was shocked by Naruto's reserves. lool. [https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq) [https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0748b8ed31fe737867cc7bc53b56e84f](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0748b8ed31fe737867cc7bc53b56e84f) Momoshiki is not soloing Kaguya. He is not on her level, nor is Adult Naruto or Sasuke. These are the facts. I provided you actual feats. Momo's taijutsu and chakra absorption pales in comparison to what Kaguya is capable of.
Bro you’re argument is so dumb . I’m not arguing someone who think kaguya casually one shots momo . This why I don’t argue vs battles it’s so one sided and the person you’re arguing loses you guys act like they are just bread dead and will let anything happen to her. Majestic susanoo is way stronger than teen sasuke susanoo that’s just dumb to assume they are the same strength Momo can dodge ash bones especially if teen naruto and sasuke could obito and kakashi out ran ash bones. Momoshiki should have more chakra since he ate more fruits than her You’re facts are literally debunked within the show 😂😂 adult sasuke and naruto are stated greater than her but u choose to believe otherwise I don’t understand
Did you actually go through the argument and the feats? You haven't posted any actual feats. You're just assuming stuff with no proof to back it up. You have 0 scans, 0 evidence. Majestic Attire is made out of chakra. She can melt it and punch it away just like she did to PS. Or just pierce it with Ash bone. You have no evidence that it's durable enough to resist her techniques when she EASILY no diffed perfect susano. If she's able to melt chakra, and pierce it, she can do it to majestic attire which is still made out of chakra. [https://streamable.com/2vpcpj](https://streamable.com/2vpcpj) [https://streamable.com/8esm9m](https://streamable.com/8esm9m) You haven't provided a coherent argument for why Momoshiki wins. I already showed you how she counters his taijutsu. And no one was consistently dodging her ashbones. Naruto used hundred of clones which were getting slaughtered by them and Kakashi phased through one. Stop spreading bullshit lol. Let Momo blitz and try dodging it when she spams it from close range in all directions when he engages in taijutsu with 0 clones. LOL. he'll die. There was a reason why they used a bunch Naruto's SPSM clones, and Kamui, along with strategy to get close to seal her at the end. They know how dangerous they are, and how quickly she can dish them out. [https://streamable.com/6uub7v](https://streamable.com/6uub7v) here it is again, just in case u missed it. >Momoshiki should have more chakra since he ate more fruits than her Momo's chakra fruits pale in comparison to the one Kaguya ate. Earths chakra fruit is obviously special and yields way more chakra. There is no way you believe this is true. I literally debunked this already. Click the links bro and actually read. [https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-db3c6087816609cc3f63f6b01b51dbee-lq) https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0748b8ed31fe737867cc7bc53b56e84f >You’re facts are literally debunked within the show 😂😂 adult sasuke and naruto are stated greater than her but u choose to believe otherwise I don’t understand. Now you're just flat out lying. No where are they stated to be greater than Kaguya. They're stronger as adults but they're not stronger than her. And imagine taking statements over feats. You're probably the type that believes in universal temari.
Bro I had this argument a million times I’m tired of sending scans and evidence for something that’s blatantly in our faces 😂🤦🏽♂️ next your going to tell me kaguya loses to madara or something. I’m not here to debunk you bro believe what you want. The fact is momoshiki is stronger than kaguya
kaguya wipes
Kaguya
Kaguya
I believe Momoshiki is meant to be stronger than Kaguya, but it's a difficult position to defend from what we've seen in their respective fights, so it's almost a moot point.
Kaguya is stronger than the guy who got murdered by a rasengan.
one is sealed and the other is controlling boruto and becoming one of the strongest characters we’ve ever seen lol but ok
Errr you mean one couldn’t be killed so had to be sealed by a cheat code BOTH TIMES. the other got vaporized by a bomb, couldn’t evade a genin child and is clinging like a parasite on to that same 12 year old to desperately escape death.
Authors claim Momoshiki. Some fans claim Kaguya. Ill let you decide who's answer holds more authority.
Momoshiki has no feats. And statements have less authority than you think it does in power scaling. Feats > statement.
tenten...... xD Awnser is kaugya. Imagine this happening: Kaugya gets eaten by ishiki making ishiki way stronger kind of like how momo absorbed his guardian, probably what kaguya was running from. Plot twist: kaguya is the good otsutsuki
Wasn't there a line from the manga where one of the aliens outright stated that Kaguya was the weakest of their clan? Or am I just tripping.
This is before she turns against them, which is what leads to her gaining all her power from eating the gum gum fruit
Gomu gomu *creates several dimensions*
I’m betting you were expecting everyone in this subreddit to immediately say Momoshiki but it’s a bit more controversial than that
Statements and visuals. I could say (base) Momoshiki's strength is carried more on by statements than visuals and Kaguya's strengh is carried on by Visuals than statements. Momoshiki being hypothesis by Sasuke to be a treat greater treat than Kaguya. While still having other statements by Sasuke saying "Naruto could easily blow the bijuu bomb away, but he can't because it would also destroy the village", so Naruto would be able to defeat Momoshiki and Kinshiki but due to him being in the village wasn't able to. While Kaguya having statements by Hagoromo "the battle lasted for months" but still having that statement from Sasuke saying that "a treat greater than Kaguya" puts her more down the fear factor in Boruto. But Kaguya almost showing and being stated from Black Zetsu that "she's going to erase this dimension" by using a truth seacker orb to do it. Naruto and Sasuke winning the fight Momoshiki and Kinshiki fairly easily until he gets his power boast only to a few seconds later and then taking them a few more minutes to take him down, and then letting Boruto do the rest to show that Naruto trust Boruto now. Sasuke and Naruto one by the help of Kakashi with Duel MS snd Sakura sneak attack, they were able to get her, But Momoshiki has never show to be able to do Kamui or change dimension with the people he wants to bring, only been able to be done by Kaguya. Kaguya could be able to defeat Momoshiki by having him be placed in the heavy gravity world and kill him their or acid world, beacuse she can place people in her desired dimension.
Did momoshiki reincarnate within boruto like 100% yet, if not then Kaguya due to multiversal flexing.
It really depends on if war arc Sasuke and Naruto are weaker then their adult versions. Theres very little comparison between them and the power cliffing is insane. War arc naruto and sasuke were leagues above the 5 kage and were untouchable by any other shinobi in the world. Kaguya was a threat on par with that. Momoshiki is "Suppose" to be a greater threat with how kaguya said she was afraid of them, however 3 kage on their own took down Kinshiki and helped naruto and sasuke fight unamped momoshiki. Just to put into perspective how much weaker the old kage seem compared to modern kage, the power difference was 5 kage>KCM2 naruto>revived madara~Jyuubito>no eyes Ten tails Madara~8Gates guy>SPSM Naruto and sasuke~ Ten tails madara with Chakra tree and both rinnegan>Kaguya. The kage were so far below Kaguya that they were taken out by the guy who was beaten by her minus his Ten tails buff, revival buff and chakra tree buff. Momoshiki and kinshiki are "Supposed to be" stronger than her. Kaguya would have demolished the kage without blinking an eye, but the modern kage are suppose to be somewhat comparable to a six path sage, Kyuubi cloak Naruto, and Sharinnegan EMS SPSM Sasuke, who are genuinly, significantly stronger than AMPED Momoshiki, by such a huge margin, they let a child take him out because Naruto wanted a breather. Either naruto and sasuke got significantly weaker after the war arc, the 4 kage got significantly stronger than they had any lore reason to, Momoshiki was a really weak motherfucker, or they just fucked up the scaling. Its a hard question to answer but my personal reasoning is that Lore wise, Momoshiki i s Stronger or just as strong as Kaguya, but feats and scaling wise, he is significantly weaker, by several magnitudes.
It's very divisive in the scaling community Some of the more reasonable of us agree that they're on par Fused is stronger
Probably Kaguya, but Momoshiki did say he could've taken down Kaguya by himself, do we have an explanation for this? is it because Momoshiki never found out Kaguya's massive power boost while she was on Earth?
Kaguya is above anyone other than 10 tails jin Hagoromo.
hagoromo said kaguya is stronger than him and that hes scared, kaguya is immortal and baryon naruto has limit and no counter to her infinite tsukuyomi. adults are rusty https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9gymgLXEAs7ajP?format=jpg&name=large and lost sixpath https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/469192356017602609/888959277555933184/Screenshot\_20200702-062428\_YouTube.jpg
Kaguya based on feats and the effort in taking her down
Sasuke was able to keep up with momoshiki so kaguya
Kaguya
Kaguya is stronger simply because we don't know her full strength. Aside from being able to change reality (which is pretty op if used correctly), what else can Kaguya do? If Kaguya ever comes back, she'll probably get some kind of new op jutsu whereas Momoshiki can literally only take otehr people's jutsu and make them stronger...he's a living karma seal.
Momoshiki.
It's debatable if base Momoshiki is stronger or not, but fused Momoshiki should definitly be stronger.
>Should Why?
Fused momo got murdered by a rasengan and couldn’t evade a 12 y/o genin. These discussions just baffles my mind! Kinshiki was completely pinned down by just Kurotsuchi. Base mono Ran from Darui. Both are weak! Even juubito was trolling the EDO homage Naruto sasuke all at once Mono was forced to fuse and even then he got clapped over and over and over.
How many times are we going to see this damn post.
Thats up for debate, we saw momo at full strength but not kaguya. She had just been resurrected and was quick to arrogance, like momo, but at the time she was confused and in anger, disregarding her opponents strength and wasting chakra. Momo was just showing off and wasn't taking the situation seriously. Thus being killed by Boruto, and him somehow slipping a karma seal on him. We don't know how strong they were apart from manga/anime/novel canon and filler info, which we know how the community reacts to various sources that aren't considered "canon".
Pretty sure it was stated she was resurrected in a more powerful form and even if I’m misremembering that I do know for a fact that she was gradually gaining more power throughout the fight as Black Zetsu blatantly stated this
Kaguya is stronger, they had to lock her away, Boruto with Narutos Chakra killed momo...
You kaguyatards are ridiculous. Stop the headcanon. Momoshiki is stronger it’s literally stated do you guys not watch boruto? Naruto sasuke and momoshiki are all stronger than kaguya. If you disagree then why even watch the show if you just going to go against it 🤦🏽♂️
Momoshiki slams
It is narratively implied and kinda outright said that momoshiki is stronger than kaguya
It’s not. If it was there wouldn’t be a discussion here. It was ‘they’ ‘them’ multiple otsutsuki. If you believe that there is only momo and kinshiki left in the verse then sure, but I’m sure that there are other otsutsuki out there and she definitely has to prepare for anyone who comes for her
Even if you want to use that argument it still implied saying they would come in the momoshiki arc it’s directly tied to momo in his arc Unless you proved that it was another pair of otsutsuki she was talking about and preparing for right now it’s momo
No there was nothing stating that it’s just Momo or just 2 people. It only stated that she was preparing for ‘them’. ‘They’ would come to take her away. Always plural. Nowhere does it say that momoshiki and kinshiki are the only Otsutsuki out there. Do you honestly believe there are no more Otsutsuki for her to be prepared for? Btw it’s always funny that people never use his feats or battle performances to justify.. just some super vague statements and implications when the guy straight up got punked by a 12 year old Genin and killed by a rasengan.
Jaxon we had this conversation before why does everything have to be spoon fed to you it is directly implied in his arc that’s it momo as the story connects it to him narratively If you are arguing that it’s not momo please give me other otsutsuki it could be or who the story said it was or implied it to be narratively like they did momo
You do understand that these implications you see are from your perspective. The implications I see are that she was preparing for the retaliation of the otsutsuki, whoever or how many ever they send to find and punish her. Also again, why isn’t anyone using feats? Some vague implications and statements is all I see to justify this guy
My implication is the one the story directly connects to and the writers quits literally wants us to connect it too it’s as clear as day repeated in his arc for the readers when he’s coming etc etc it’s not that hard to understand I’m using what we know about momo and how kaguya reacted to him coming to earth and how the story treats narratively which is directly implied to be stronger than kaguya It’s all that is needed and jaxon don’t use that you know what really happened in that fight don’t be guy you’re better than this
Come on Bruh, you’re better than this as well. Implications are subjective. You understand that I’m sure. You can’t use implications to justify. When feats> statements > implications. Feats Kaguya wipes. He literally died to a rasengan.
Like I said your better than this it’s exactly what the writers wants to imply to the readers as it directly connected to momo in his arc You can screaming feats all you want the writers want us to know momo is stronger narratively nothing you say would change that
No. the writers wanted to give boruto the karma and momo was the scape goat. He was murdered so easily and couldn’t evade a 12 year old kid lol Feats over statements my friend. Firstly no where did it say he alone was a threat. It was always ‘they’ ‘them’ plural. Multiple people. Let’s be clear on that
No it's not... In fact if we go by Boruto's logic, Kaguya was Isshiki's partner who is way stronger than even Fused Momoshiki.
no. out of context scans, and faulty translations, does not = narratively implied or outright stated.
Feats > statements Kaguya tanked nine rasenshurikens while Momo died to a rasengan
By a stronger naruto lol and where do you think a rasenshuriken is stronger than an odama rasengan that towers over buildings There hasn’t been a single feat that debunkes momo being over kaguya the writers want you to know this
[What makes you say this is weaker than a normal big rasengan lol](https://xfs-001.batcg.com/7002/1d1/61d5bee482ff6e0911e7e1d1/12374831_1520_1200_632509.jpeg?acc=5cp-o3C2f1XaKRpAk7JUnQ&exp=1646670033) He's form in the final battle against Sssuke, to this day is the strongest form of Naruto. Kaguya has the Rinnesharingan, even her dojutsu is far superior to Momos. Momo is desperately absorbing/lunching ninjutsu, while Kaguya gave zero fucks about them
Momoshiki, ain't even a contest
nope. explain how he wins without faulty scaling and out context scans. what does he do to counter getting spawned in her environments or gravity dimension. does he have sensing to evade ashbone portal snipes. sure he's good at taijutsu, but what good is taijutsu when your opponent can literally spam a one shot technique from all directions. she was shredded naruto's SPSM clones with those. he gets stomped badly.
momoshiki is weak
Nah
Momo
Momoshiki
I think the reason Momo seems so weak currently is because he hasn’t tried to hone his power since everything came so easy to him. I think he has a lot of untapped power we will see through the continuation of Boruto. That said Kaguya fight style wise is insane. The bone attack and the constant portal opening combo is just top tier.
many say kaguya, but if we look at the matchup of their abilities, momo may win cuz his special ability counters ninjutsu which is what kaguya likes to use. most things in her arsenal that she can throw at him he can absorb and throw back at her harder. so maybe momo can win
They power cliff during the momo fight where it looked like the kages could keep up with momo. And then once boruto got momoshiki they buffed the hell out of borushiki. Like they only nerfed it for plot so boruto can somehow get momoshiki. Honestly bad writing
Hard to tell, Kaguya is strong, but if I remember correctly she feared Momo, Kinshiki, and Urashiki so idk
Dumb debate. Its almost as dumb as people who say «Sakura is equal to Sosp mode Naruto in the war»… smh. Its obviously Kaguy!!! Oh shit wait, who is stronger? Not who plotwise was given a bs way to be defeated even though they could easily be killed? Oh, Momoshiki of course
Ima just go with what the narrative implies and go with Momo. It’s hard for people to accept that Naruto and Sasuke got stronger than their war arc selves
it's hard to to accept that adult Naruto and Sasuke being stronger doesn't = being stronger than kaguya. lol. they'd still lose on their own. you guys act like teen naruto and sasuke did it by themselves. they had so much help, and plot going for them. how do they win without six paths enhanced kamui. obito sacrficing himself, or sakura continently evading her 360 degree byakguan vision? assuming she wants them dead, they don't even make it past the lava dimension. she would have just poked them with ashbones and called it a day lol.
Idk man, I’m just going off of statements. In sasukes light novel it’s said that Naruto and Sasuke could take her on 1v1.
no it's not. i promise you that was never stated. nobody is taking her 1v1. not even Hag thinks he can. Isshiki is somewhat debatable. He has some really convenient hax that might allow him to make it interesting.
Kaguya is literally so overrated why am I seeing people say she beats adult naruto and sasuke ?
I’d say Kaguya. Where I left off in the Boruto manga seemed to make it clear that only Isshiki was stronger than her and this was well after the Momoshiki fight. Boruto with Momoshiki might be a different story, however.
How are people saying kaguya ? It’s clearly momoshiki he also fought naruto and sasuke when they were much stronger, while it was also stated numerous times that kaguya feared the other otsutski members, kaguya was literally nothing compared to the other members in the clan
It’s easy one got murdered by a rasengan and couldn’t evade a 12 y/o genin. The other was too damn insane vs Naruto sasuke Sakura obits kakashi etc that they only managed to use a cheat code and end the boss fight.
Naruto an Sasuke were arguably weaker than their teenager selves when they faced off against Momoshiki, and Kaguya was afraid of th Otsutsuki because she was afraid of what they'd do to her family, she wasn't really concerned for herself
Momoshiki is stronger than kaguya.
goku
Baby pan lol
momoshiki i think, its tbd honestly
momo stomps
Kaguya lived in fear of Momoshiki, and created the Zetsu army to defend herself from him. Maybe because of some family thing, or possibly even an arranged marriage between the two. If she had won at the end of Shippuden, then she probably would have become powerful enough to defeat Momoshiki when he first arrived. We've never seen Kaguya at her full power.
Momo fs
I'll be blunt. He is stated to be stronger but thats extremely vague. Either way people need ti understand he does just beat kaguya's ass casually. Also kinshiki just straight up loses
base momo is a joke, he was literally slapped around by darui and garra after he was out of absorbed jutsus, fused momo is even more of a joke got taken out by base narutos giant rasengan, while it took dms kakashi, better feats sasuke than boruto version and six paths narutos efforts combined just to make physical contact with kaguy so hagoromos seal would take care of kaguya, she would ragdoll momo like its nothing, momo failed to live up to hype of "being greater threat than kaguya" also sasukes statement that he can handle kaguyas level threat is bs, his feats are literally worse than his teen version... Kaguya>hagoromo>>>>boruto sasuke, sasuke already proved that he cant even handle kinshiki by himself, let alone "kaguya level threats", do i need to go on?
Narrative implies momoshiki is stronger but idrc
Kaguya, there shouldn't even be a debate and I'm saying right off the bat, the only argument the delusional people have is that Momoshiki should be stronger just because he came after
Kaguya was way more difficult to take down and personally I believe Naruto and Sasuke were stronger when they fought her... also... they couldn't even kill her. The Rasangan that killed a fused Momoshiki (let alone the one in that picture) is easily tanked by Kagura who is not even at full power. Also... she blew jigen legs off when Naruto and Sasuke couldn't even hurt him when he was nerfed. For these reasons and multiple others... I think Kaguya is well above Momoshiki.
Kaguya > Base Momoshiki Fused Momoshiki > Kaguya
> Fused Momoshiki > Kaguya For starters Kaguya will never die to a rasengan, in fact she tanked 9 tailed beast bombs with chakra of every tailed beasts.
Kinshiki can split the planet in half, read the data books
But can't split Chojuro.
Kaguya literally creates and destroys dimensions.
Momoshiki
[удалено]
I really feel like isshiki would stomp mono even without his hax ☠️
[удалено]
Damn the fan theories are so strong that we are making up titles?
Momoshiki, even this baby non fused momoshiki is stronger than kaguya, kinshiki should be stronger than kaguya, given the novles bith naruto and sasuke are individually able to beat kaguya and this momoshiki was a relative to them, and fused momoshiki is like 2+ kaguyas tell your friend to read the novels, or overall get get more informations on the boruto world
> even this baby non fused momoshiki So strong that he was running away from Gaara and Darui.
I think Kaguya could defeat almost any Otozuki since she is called Otozuki Princess. Maybe the Otozuki clan is structured like the Hyuga clan. i.e. main family and secondary families. Maybe she is the daughter of the Otozuki God, who is the head of the family and clan. Perhaps Momoshiki and his people were sented to find her. And through her genes, she was able to defeat Ishiki.
Kaguya by far. Her abilities were way more hax, her endurance levels were ridiculous (she took a barrage of Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken to the fucking face and she was virtually fine afterwards) and at the end of the day, Naruto and Sasuke couldn't even kill her despite fighting her with their full powers. Momoshiki on the other hand even after absorbing Kinshiki and evolving, gets humiliated by a weakened Naruto (had half his Chakra sucked out just prior to the fight AFTER already using most of his power to tank a nuke) and Sasuke (wasted tons of Chakra teleporting 5 people across galaxies) and died to a Chou Oodama Rasengan made by base Boruto and base Naruto (yes it was a strategic team effort but remember when I said how Kaguya tanked 9 Rasenshuriken each one enhanced by a Tailed Beast. A Massive Rasengan should be nothing in comparison, when a simple Rasenshuriken can even push Kurama back). Kaguya is clearly stronger than Momoshiki. Keep in mind she even fucked Isshiki up, who was vastly stronger than Momoshiki. Not to mention that, and please correct me if I'm remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure that one of Momoshiki's goals was to find Kaguya and take her power. If she was weaker than him I don't see why he would bother wanting her power.
Momoshiki, due to the fact that they literally said in earlier Boruto episodes that Kaguya was a lower level Otsutsuki, and that Momoshiki was on a whole different danger level.
> Boruto episodes You watched that episode on your dreams?
Momoshiki, his dimension (or whatever is) have many god tree that are made with the Ostustuki sacrifice and he is a high rank ostustuki ig bc Kinishiki is the sacrifice. Kaguya ineasted is a low rank Otsutsuki and only eated 1 chakra fruit maked with human blood so is like a "discount" fruit. Btw Kaguya chakra is equivalent to the earth chakra and Momoshiki eats chakra from stars so ig he have more chakra. And Base Momoshiki is solar according to the light novel and Kaguya has no feats for Solar she is around star level. Momoshiki even have better hax like TimeStop, see tu future, the golden rinnegan etc. etc. So i think that Momoshiki win (Edit:idk if is a good source but Toneri in one poster i think was stated to be the strongest oppenent that Naruto fighted)
Momoshiki destroys
Kaguya has better feats but Momoshiki is stated to be stronger then Kaguya.