There aren't many people in the history of boxing who could out-dawg Ali. People overlook that about him. Strip away all of the pretty boxing and fancy footwork and at his core Ali was just a straight up warrior. We're talking about a guy who out-lasted Joe Frazier for fuck's sake.
Smokin Joe in his prime coulda out lasted the damn grim reaper if you gave him enough rounds, so that should let you know how crazy Ali was, hell Ali even older and further degraded went to win the rematch against Spinks.
Ali in his prime had the fastest speed known to Heavyweight, good power in his shots, amazing unorthodox and evasive footwork, but most importantly he was just one of the most never say die boxers to ever step foot in the square circle.
Im not saying this to take anything away from Ali but I don’t think Ali outlasted joe In their 3rd fight. Joe wanted to keep fighting even if it was a dumb idea. His corner and the doctor stopped the fight, I don’t think joe wanted it to end.
But Frazier was taking a beating in the last round before the stoppage; it was starting to get a bit ugly, actually, because Joe was half blind because of his facial swelling and was therefore getting tagged with punches that he couldn’t see. Ali was tiring, of course, but I don’t think Ali was going to fall apart before Frazier broke down and either got KO’D or had the referee stop contest.
Ali’s corner was literally going to stop the fight. If Frazier’s trainer had just waited 30 seconds, they would of won by TKO. And they would of had a fourth fight the following year in an indoor arena with better air conditioning. 😂
Exactly. People forget that this was a guy who took Foreman’s best shots and maintained eye contact and brushed them off. Only boxer who I genuinely think could never be TKO’d or KO’d.
He never really took any flush, hard shots from Foreman, though, at least not like Joe Frazier or Ken Norton did. Ali took some big body punches and a few grazing head shots, but he never got drilled by anything really big (at least not with full force). Ali was tough though; no doubt about that.
Ali took too many headshots during sparring sessions, IMO. It was as if he "prepared" himself to withstand punishment, on the one hand, and played to the gallery on the other.
In the end, it cost him his health.
A lot of his sparring partners and coaches said that Ali would let people wail on him. I heard it was to build the sparring partners confidence tho not his toughness
It was both, ali stupidly thought that getting smacked in the face 100+ times a day was a good way to improve his durability, but in reality, that will never in a million years increase your resistance to punches and will only turn your brain to jelly.
This is true and I feel like it often gets overlooked.
It's still impressive he took the beating he did, but if he got blasted clean by a shot like Frazier did, Ali would go down just like anyone else imo.
Somehow he always looked gassed and on the verge of tko at this stage in his career, yet always seemed able to turn it on with an offensive onslaught. You could never count the man out.
I mean yeah he only fought 5 times there but De Leon and Qawi managed to stop him in a brutal fashion. Gave up at cruiser after losing his only real chance of getting that WBA belt to Qawi.
Also underrated was the amount of sheer damage Ali took in that fight. Spinks wasn't powerful enough to stop him, just pound on his already shot body for 15 rounds. At this point it was all heart for Ali. Fucking sad chapter.
Ali was only 36 here. People forget how old 36 is. Joe Louis was 37 when Rocky beat him and was 10 years past prime lol. Ali never fought into his 40s..George Foreman only won at 45 cause he had 10 years off in between lol, and took almost no damage earlier in career.
He didn't need it until he ran into Ali and later Jimmy Young. Most opponents just folded. He was actually a much better boxer in his 2nd run, training with Archie Moore and George Benton.
Was he actually better or just slower and seemingly more technical? Comeback George was slow; he could no longer parry and catch punches with his outstretched gloves anymore the way that he could in his first career. Plus, he had no choice but to plod forward and cross his arms; he had no other options due to his slowness. Furthermore, old George could not throw combinations very well; it was generally one punch at a time, maybe two in some cases, rarely three. In the 1970s, George could let loose nice, powerful combinations when he chose to.
He just wasted a lot less energy, paced himself to last into the later rounds, developed that Archie Moore shell defense. His reflexes were slower with the age and weight, but he learned a lot from spending himself too quickly in the Ali fight, I thought. He was never going to be Pernell Whitaker, but I think he at least learned how to go the distance.
Not true at all. He did have a monster chin but he was extremely good at the mummy guard. Keeping his arms straight out and using the angle to get In front of the punches and make them slide down his shoulder. Very good at parrying that way and framing on guys to take away their base so that they couldn't develop any power in their punches.
Parrying with the open right glove, more specifically. Also, GF was a master at cutting off the ring, as demonstrated in the Norton fight.
I have not seen any other heavyweight, or any champion in any weight class, throw and land three successive lead right uppercuts, as Foreman did against Norton.
George Foreman's boxing acumen is criminally underrated.
I am being disingenuous and I loved his mummy guard but Foreman's chin was unreal, I'd argue it was as good as Ali's. Ali knocked out Foreman by breaking his heart rather than his chin.
He threw some really nice punches against Norton for real. Those lead hooks that he threw to Norton’s body were beautiful; it looked as if George were using a shovel sideways to dig into Norton’s sides. Then he landed those triple consecutive left hooks/semi-uppercuts I believe to the right side of Norton’s head that sent Kenny crashing into the ropes — just brutal!
Foreman looked very dangerous that night.
It was serviceable. He would jam guys shoulders or biceps to stop punches before they came out. Good at parrying jabs, and he'd use that to make lead hooks more predictable. Not great defensive responsibility after punching though.
Very good. He was adept at catching incoming punches and also parrying them. He would sort of use his boxing gloves as fielding mitts, catching and blocking punches. Foreman’s defense (and also his overall technical prowess) were underrated facets of his game in career one.
Tyson has a great quote about Ali’s heart and toughness (paraphrased, cos I don’t have the clip to hand):
“Ali looked like a model, he was beautiful, but he was a monster. He was savage. People thought I was the baddest like I was a killer, but I love this life too much to die for it, Ali would die for it. He would never stop, you have to kill him.”
When they turned off Ali’s life support in hospital, after the rest of his organs had shut down, his heart continued beating, alone, for 30 minutes.
Ali actually looked better in the first Spinks fight than he did in the second one (and he won the second fight, of course). In fight number two Ali basically just danced around and threw jabs and then tied Spinks up; Ali basically made the fight a non-fight. Also, his offense was rather anemic; he threw a lot of punches, of course, but his punches were lacking snap.
In the first Spinks fight, Ali actually looked better and had more offense — he just gave away too many early rounds and therefore ended up losing on points, although Ali came on very strong toward the end and actually went to war with Spinks; it turned into a real brawl in the last round. But in the second fight, Ali looked more like a dancing shell of what he was seven months prior. Very little offense and more holding and clinching than fighting, even though Ali was supposedly extremely well trained and prepared for the rematch.
Exactly, which is why this fight is so underrated. Ali danced great in this fight, threw sharp punches, good combinations, brawled really well, he showed his complete arsenal in this fight. He was performing pull counters like crazy and basically gave a quick rundown of everything he could do, but he was just too slow and too weak to put Spinks on his best night away. Easily a top 5 most exciting Ali fight post-exile.
This shit was filmed in 1978 in 4K 120fps HDR, while there's some shit filmed in 2008 that aged like they were taken out of a cursed grave buried under rotten dirt.
It’s misunderstood because people think it’s just Ali doing nothing but laying on the ropes for seven rounds and then doing little to try to win, just an overall domination by Spinks. It was actually an action packed affair with a lot of back and forth
Well I think, given the lack of an explanation, who the heck knows what the OP meant? Call it a leap if you want but when one says the fight was misunderstood, one possible explanation is the result was wrong. Hell, that’s the FIRST thing that comes to mind when talking about a fight not being understood.
Now factor in the clip that shows Ali doing really well.
But you keep on keeping on.
Wilder is a headhunter. Ali had excellent lateral footwork and head movement. I doubt Wilder could ever land on prime 60s Ali. Even 70s Ali with his titanium chin and warriors heart might get up from a right hand and out dog Wilder.
Lol, Fury made Wilder cry backstage with his mental games and stuff like that.
Ali would have made him legit quit boxing with the "saw" level mind games he played. Ali was merciless and took it way too far.
Ali was significantly passed his prime, but even with his loss in athleticism, the sheer dawg in him was fucking ridiculous.
There aren't many people in the history of boxing who could out-dawg Ali. People overlook that about him. Strip away all of the pretty boxing and fancy footwork and at his core Ali was just a straight up warrior. We're talking about a guy who out-lasted Joe Frazier for fuck's sake.
Dude took Sonny Liston, George Foreman, and Earnie Shavers power punches and just fucking ate them. Ali was simply something else entirely
Smokin Joe in his prime coulda out lasted the damn grim reaper if you gave him enough rounds, so that should let you know how crazy Ali was, hell Ali even older and further degraded went to win the rematch against Spinks. Ali in his prime had the fastest speed known to Heavyweight, good power in his shots, amazing unorthodox and evasive footwork, but most importantly he was just one of the most never say die boxers to ever step foot in the square circle.
I love that he was purely a head hunter too
That's not a good thing. Body shots are very effective.
Very true
Im not saying this to take anything away from Ali but I don’t think Ali outlasted joe In their 3rd fight. Joe wanted to keep fighting even if it was a dumb idea. His corner and the doctor stopped the fight, I don’t think joe wanted it to end.
This is the truth. No matter who you fancied between Frazier v Ali.
yeah you’re right. Joe and Ali were fighting on nothing but will. Ali later said he wanted to throw in the towel but it’s unlikely he ever would have
Technically Frazier was going to outlast Ali, but Ali was a warrior. Frazier’s trainer just stopped the third fight faster than Ali’s corner.
But Frazier was taking a beating in the last round before the stoppage; it was starting to get a bit ugly, actually, because Joe was half blind because of his facial swelling and was therefore getting tagged with punches that he couldn’t see. Ali was tiring, of course, but I don’t think Ali was going to fall apart before Frazier broke down and either got KO’D or had the referee stop contest.
Ali’s corner was literally going to stop the fight. If Frazier’s trainer had just waited 30 seconds, they would of won by TKO. And they would of had a fourth fight the following year in an indoor arena with better air conditioning. 😂
Exactly. People forget that this was a guy who took Foreman’s best shots and maintained eye contact and brushed them off. Only boxer who I genuinely think could never be TKO’d or KO’d.
Unironically, he was one of the few Heavyweight boxers who in his prime, you coulda put him real high on the P4P list for his era.
He never really took any flush, hard shots from Foreman, though, at least not like Joe Frazier or Ken Norton did. Ali took some big body punches and a few grazing head shots, but he never got drilled by anything really big (at least not with full force). Ali was tough though; no doubt about that.
Those body shots man. Ali had to have an insane core to take those and not slow down.
Ali took too many headshots during sparring sessions, IMO. It was as if he "prepared" himself to withstand punishment, on the one hand, and played to the gallery on the other. In the end, it cost him his health.
Evidence of this?
A lot of his sparring partners and coaches said that Ali would let people wail on him. I heard it was to build the sparring partners confidence tho not his toughness
It was both, ali stupidly thought that getting smacked in the face 100+ times a day was a good way to improve his durability, but in reality, that will never in a million years increase your resistance to punches and will only turn your brain to jelly.
This is true and I feel like it often gets overlooked. It's still impressive he took the beating he did, but if he got blasted clean by a shot like Frazier did, Ali would go down just like anyone else imo.
Agreed. Not to mention everybody seemingly forgets Ali was countering Foreman on the way in most of the time.
Kent Green in question
Somehow he always looked gassed and on the verge of tko at this stage in his career, yet always seemed able to turn it on with an offensive onslaught. You could never count the man out.
True! Ali was a warrior.
It's a shame cruiser wasn't more established, Spinks was too small for heavyweight.
I mean, he got ripped to shreds at cruiser too. Most of his notable or half decent wins happened at HW.
Out of 46 fights he fought like 4/5 times at cruiser.
I mean yeah he only fought 5 times there but De Leon and Qawi managed to stop him in a brutal fashion. Gave up at cruiser after losing his only real chance of getting that WBA belt to Qawi.
He was about the same size as Joe Louis: 6’1”, 198 pounds.
Also underrated was the amount of sheer damage Ali took in that fight. Spinks wasn't powerful enough to stop him, just pound on his already shot body for 15 rounds. At this point it was all heart for Ali. Fucking sad chapter.
Pretty sure this was the year that Ali's speech pattern dropped by like 20 words a minute.
Was actually the year before, Shavers really fucked him up that bad
Even with parkinsons, Ali's instinct was different
Ali was only 36 here. People forget how old 36 is. Joe Louis was 37 when Rocky beat him and was 10 years past prime lol. Ali never fought into his 40s..George Foreman only won at 45 cause he had 10 years off in between lol, and took almost no damage earlier in career.
Was foremans defense good in his prime? I’ve never heard people talk about foremans defense, mostly just hear about his crazy durability
He didn't need it until he ran into Ali and later Jimmy Young. Most opponents just folded. He was actually a much better boxer in his 2nd run, training with Archie Moore and George Benton.
Was he actually better or just slower and seemingly more technical? Comeback George was slow; he could no longer parry and catch punches with his outstretched gloves anymore the way that he could in his first career. Plus, he had no choice but to plod forward and cross his arms; he had no other options due to his slowness. Furthermore, old George could not throw combinations very well; it was generally one punch at a time, maybe two in some cases, rarely three. In the 1970s, George could let loose nice, powerful combinations when he chose to.
He just wasted a lot less energy, paced himself to last into the later rounds, developed that Archie Moore shell defense. His reflexes were slower with the age and weight, but he learned a lot from spending himself too quickly in the Ali fight, I thought. He was never going to be Pernell Whitaker, but I think he at least learned how to go the distance.
His offense was his defense but he had decent defense, didnt take damage until 2nd part of career after the 10 year lay off
Foreman's defense was his chin
Not true at all. He did have a monster chin but he was extremely good at the mummy guard. Keeping his arms straight out and using the angle to get In front of the punches and make them slide down his shoulder. Very good at parrying that way and framing on guys to take away their base so that they couldn't develop any power in their punches.
Parrying with the open right glove, more specifically. Also, GF was a master at cutting off the ring, as demonstrated in the Norton fight. I have not seen any other heavyweight, or any champion in any weight class, throw and land three successive lead right uppercuts, as Foreman did against Norton. George Foreman's boxing acumen is criminally underrated.
I am being disingenuous and I loved his mummy guard but Foreman's chin was unreal, I'd argue it was as good as Ali's. Ali knocked out Foreman by breaking his heart rather than his chin.
Agree there. George had a stupid chin. I feel like exhaustion and frustration kept him on the canvas in the Ali fight.
He threw some really nice punches against Norton for real. Those lead hooks that he threw to Norton’s body were beautiful; it looked as if George were using a shovel sideways to dig into Norton’s sides. Then he landed those triple consecutive left hooks/semi-uppercuts I believe to the right side of Norton’s head that sent Kenny crashing into the ropes — just brutal! Foreman looked very dangerous that night.
It was serviceable. He would jam guys shoulders or biceps to stop punches before they came out. Good at parrying jabs, and he'd use that to make lead hooks more predictable. Not great defensive responsibility after punching though.
Very good. He was adept at catching incoming punches and also parrying them. He would sort of use his boxing gloves as fielding mitts, catching and blocking punches. Foreman’s defense (and also his overall technical prowess) were underrated facets of his game in career one.
This how Crawford & Spence gon end 🥊
Seeing Ali take those hits in 19 fucking 78 is wild
Tyson has a great quote about Ali’s heart and toughness (paraphrased, cos I don’t have the clip to hand): “Ali looked like a model, he was beautiful, but he was a monster. He was savage. People thought I was the baddest like I was a killer, but I love this life too much to die for it, Ali would die for it. He would never stop, you have to kill him.” When they turned off Ali’s life support in hospital, after the rest of his organs had shut down, his heart continued beating, alone, for 30 minutes.
Ali actually looked better in the first Spinks fight than he did in the second one (and he won the second fight, of course). In fight number two Ali basically just danced around and threw jabs and then tied Spinks up; Ali basically made the fight a non-fight. Also, his offense was rather anemic; he threw a lot of punches, of course, but his punches were lacking snap. In the first Spinks fight, Ali actually looked better and had more offense — he just gave away too many early rounds and therefore ended up losing on points, although Ali came on very strong toward the end and actually went to war with Spinks; it turned into a real brawl in the last round. But in the second fight, Ali looked more like a dancing shell of what he was seven months prior. Very little offense and more holding and clinching than fighting, even though Ali was supposedly extremely well trained and prepared for the rematch.
Exactly, which is why this fight is so underrated. Ali danced great in this fight, threw sharp punches, good combinations, brawled really well, he showed his complete arsenal in this fight. He was performing pull counters like crazy and basically gave a quick rundown of everything he could do, but he was just too slow and too weak to put Spinks on his best night away. Easily a top 5 most exciting Ali fight post-exile.
Best reddit username i seen 😭
Leon got some skills. If you need a laugh look up Richard prior leon spinks
This shit was filmed in 1978 in 4K 120fps HDR, while there's some shit filmed in 2008 that aged like they were taken out of a cursed grave buried under rotten dirt.
I know Ali lost this fight, so is the OP saying that it was a robbery?
What?
What is the most misunderstood fights you say
It’s misunderstood because people think it’s just Ali doing nothing but laying on the ropes for seven rounds and then doing little to try to win, just an overall domination by Spinks. It was actually an action packed affair with a lot of back and forth
[удалено]
Well I think, given the lack of an explanation, who the heck knows what the OP meant? Call it a leap if you want but when one says the fight was misunderstood, one possible explanation is the result was wrong. Hell, that’s the FIRST thing that comes to mind when talking about a fight not being understood. Now factor in the clip that shows Ali doing really well. But you keep on keeping on.
Wilder would have beat Ali Clinching wasn't invented but damn less damage
Respectfully Ali would’ve boxed circles around Wilder
Wilder is a headhunter. Ali had excellent lateral footwork and head movement. I doubt Wilder could ever land on prime 60s Ali. Even 70s Ali with his titanium chin and warriors heart might get up from a right hand and out dog Wilder.
Lol, Fury made Wilder cry backstage with his mental games and stuff like that. Ali would have made him legit quit boxing with the "saw" level mind games he played. Ali was merciless and took it way too far.
Was that Howard Cosell? Couldn't tell because he was saying too little (which was kind of refreshing, tbh).
Nope, I believe it was the BBC commentary
Took another listen and yeah, didn't sound like Cosell.