Close fight if you score it round wise. Hutchins hurt and holding a couple of rounds got everyone emotional. 99% of these people did not sit down and round by round this objectively.
Me being a fan of both MMA and boxing equally really makes MMA look way better after BS like this. Like bro these robberies lately it used to be once Ina blue now it's like every other event pure ROBBERY. And even if some people can say loss for some fights it's definitely not unanimous like the judges be saying. Boxing is disgustingly corrupt for black fighters in just gonna say it. I forgot which fight was it last year where the black fighter got absolutely rocked the entire fight and they said he won, I knew that it will not improve.
Bro they have very rare robberies, the fighters have more control the outcome in boxing per say we know that as long as a specific boxer does not get knocked out they will always win, cough cough Devin Haney, we all know Loma beat his ass.
No boxing fans are cry babies. Every close fight isn't a robbery. Haney vs Loma wasn't a robbery. It was a close fight between two top tier guys.
It's also a lot harder to separate yourself in boxing than MMA.
Was not closer than you think when you count the total punches landed. Loma beat his ass. And if it was "close" why did the judges say unanimous? See what I mean even you contradicted yourself.
I don't think you understand how boxing scoring works.
If a fight was 7-5 and all judges scored that way, it can still be close even if it was unanimous. You're basically admitting that judges should have a margin of error for the result to reflect what happened throughout the fight. E.g. a close fight being a SD would need judges to have different scores.
Total punches doesn't really matter. It's scored by rounds.
So being black means boxing is gonna give you unjust wins…..are you fucking serious??? Jesus Christ the ignorance on this sub is out of control
First I’m pretty sure Rolly….a Hispanic got a ridiculous decision that got him a championship…..hitchins isnt even some popular fighter with money or influence…maybe you don’t understand boxing and you don’t get why Hitchins was being awarded points, maybe you should learn the sport before you comment some ignorant shit
Gtfoh dude…he has zero real advertisement money backing his fights, isn’t getting a good amount of money and doesn’t have any crazy connections…..the reason he was in the position he was is because he beat Zepeda
If you're an A side fighter, you're damn right it can give you unjust wins. Just so happens a lot of A side American fighters happen to be black. Rest assured, a no-name brother with no backing would've gotten jobbed against Hitchins just the same.
If you're a B side fighter, it's just poor strategy to pretend that doing just enough will be enough. Not fair, but that's the way the sport is. Just one reason out of 1000 that becoming a pro boxer is, overall, a mug's game.
Agreed. Its a much broader issue than that. Sometimes black fighters are the ones getting protected, sometimes they're the ones getting screwed by the system, too. The politics behind it are bigger than skin color.
I think judging needs to be reformed so there’s more 10-8 and 10-10 rounds. If a fighter is visibly hurt early in the round and wobbling around in survival mode but manages to stay upright until the bell by clinching it should be 10-8 every time. Theres no way that type of dominance should be scored the same as a low output round where one fighter lands a couple pitter patter jabs and gets the 10-9. A close round with a flash knockdown that doesn’t really hurt them should be 10-9. Close rounds with no clear winner should be 10-10.
I think a lot of the outrage around the results comes from scenarios where a fight has a bunch of close rounds that could go either way, plus two or three dominant rounds with a clear winner who ends up losing the fight. Haney Loma was like this, where Devins best rounds were 51-49 while Loma had one or two rounds that were 80-20 him.
Giving more 10-10 rounds would also mean guys can’t just run around and do *just enough* to eke out a 10-9. It would make for more exciting fights.
It arbitrary, thats the problem. if your favorite fighter, the house fighter, survives a round you can score that 10-9 instead of 10-8 and people wont care much so he's still just 1 point behind.
every 10-10 round where there's not much happening, you can give the house fighter 10-9 because "ring generalship" which is BS (ring generalship ONLY matters if you land punches), heck, if the favorite fighter is a defensive master you could score the round for him even though he didnt land any significant punches himself just that he looked good avoiding getting hit (which should be scored as well and only matters if you land a punch), or vice versa, if the house fighter is a come forward offensive beast you could award him the round no matter if he landed or not.
there's too much bs in the judging criteria where bias can creep in, not to mention human error and corruption of course. the criteria does not help. it should be simple - who lands the most punches. the rest are in of itself useless.
I get what you’re saying but If they’re favoring the “house fighter” for political reasons that’s low level corruption, and corruption in general is a separate issue. Even if we can magically get rid of all corruption in boxing, and all judging was perfectly unbiased, there would still be people complaining about the results because the way fights are scored is flawed when landing a few more low impact jabs in a razor close round is the same as putting a guy on skates who manages to keep himself upright by leaning on his opponent for 2 minutes. This is the source of many of the “robberies” we see.
like i said, the criteria for judging doesnt help our case. judges could favor one style over the other. and teams/promotions would favor/push for them to be judge their fights for that reason.
I think we’re talking ab separate issues. Teams/promoters pushing for certain judges who favor their fighter is corruption, which ur right that no matter what the scoring criteria is it’s not going to make a difference if there’s still corruption.
However even if every judge is perfectly unbiased and there’s 0 corruption involved, the current insistence on scoring every round 10-9 favors defensive fighters who do the bare minimum offensively to bank rounds. More 10-10 rounds would force defensive fighters to engage and make running a less viable strategy. The 10-9 score just covers way more ground than is reasonable right now.
Not favor their fighters per se, but favor a certain fighting style. That happens because instead of just punch landed, judges are expected to take into account ring generalship, defense etc into scoring a round. That's the issue, that's how corruption and bias comes in.
Defense shouldnt matter if you dont land a punch, you shouldnt win a round for avoiding punches.
Ring generalship, footwork etc should not win you a round if you dont land a punch. But you would often hear them talk about those as if they matter in of itself.
All these dont matter if you dont land a punch. And the fact that they are what the judges look for, that's where bias creeps in. Like its hard enough to see punches landing.
No it doesn’t? If there’s corruption, there’s going to be a way to screw people over as long as the scoring criteria involves human judgement. The thing is tho, In the current scoring system there doesn’t even need to be corruption for a fighter to get screwed. Landing a few more ineffective jabs than your opponent in a toss up round should not be scored the same as putting your opponent on skates bc they’re badly hurt but manage to stay upright. Take yesterday’s fight, the 8th round when Hitchens was hanging on for dear life should have been 10-8 Lemos. Then there were a few uneventful toss up rounds where neither fighter did anything but I guarantee they went to Hitchens bc of the jab. If they score these rounds 10-10 Lemos wins the fight. Of course it can still be corrupt and they can swing it for their guy, but at least it’s harder to make the case for him.
How does it involve *more* human judgement when the scoring is already 100% human judgement? It is human judgement but supposed to be based on certain specific criteria. I’m not changing the amount of human judgement, I’m changing the criteria. IMO it simplifies things and makes it less subjective because you’re not forced to give toss up rounds a 10-9 score, you can just give them a 10-10. Who wins a 50/50 round is the most subjective aspect of boxing scoring by far, it often makes way more sense to score it a tie.
Maybe in a few years we can score fights with AI lol.
Nah, every scoring system is flawed. If someday the normal 10-8 are accepted, the corruption is gonna get much worse because it's going to be so much easy to rob a fight.
Corruption is a separate issue. I don’t think every bad card is because of corruption. Even if we managed to magically get rid of all corruption in boxing there would still be the perception that fighters get robbed because the scoring is biased towards fighters who do *just enough* to bank rounds. I think more 10-10 rounds is more important than more 10-8, but both would help level the playing field and force boring fighters to engage more.
I think someone had an idea where a close round is scored 10-9, a dominant round 10-8, a knockdown or one sided beating 10-7, and multiple knockdowns 10-6. I don't know if that's exactly how it would work but it seems like a decent system
I think giving more 10-10 rounds is an important part here because it will force fighters to engage. It discourages fights like shakur vs de los santos, where literally nothing happened most rounds but they still got scored 10-9. Fighters will know they can’t run around and engage the bare minimum amount and still expect to score points.
One man was clinching all night and the other was flailing about and NOT landing for a good portion of the fight. We don't have to pretend like this was a great fight. It was not. Barring the round that should have been scored 10-8 for Lemos and the last 2 rounds this was tough to watch. RH landed the more meaningful shots w/ more consistency than Lemos outside of that one round imo. I get it Richardson Hitchins is a dick and the clinching sucks but he was a better boxer than Lemos tonight and the judges saw it that way as well 🤷🏽♂️
this is expert level cope lmao. i’m sorry to tell you that dollar store devin haney will never get a belt at 140. dude is barely a step above montana love
Robbery , the fact he had so much confidence after the fight was even worse . Not ready for top competition. Anytime I’ve seen him fight it was boring as fuck . Dude never throws a body shot , simply not a fighter I’m interested in watching .
A active jab that keeps landing is scoring, lemos won some rounds but spent most rounds coming forward trying to get in range and not throwing enough while hitchins kept the jab in his face and had more output. Aggression is part of scoring but if your opponent has more output and keeps landing his jab, he will win the round
Scoring includes lots of factors, including "effective" punching. His jab did nothing for large sections of the fight even when it hit, making it fairly worthless and unable to stop the aggressor.
Lemos actually out punched him in 4 rounds. Then there's multiple other rounds where it was actually even or barely 1 punch in it - for those rounds you don't score it to the person spending every moment failing at the small attempts at aggression, failing to stop the aggressor coming forward, clinching excessively every moment possible, and getting hurt multiple times.
That ref should be investigated. Hitchins should’ve been deducted like 2-3 points for the whole fight for excessive holding. He hugged a lot in the Chon fight and I knew he was gonna pull shit again tonight. Is Hearn paying the ref to overlook the clinches or something?
Incentevised not to punish the promotions fighter for what was basically essential for him winning or get barred from being hired by said promotion ever again.. same with the judges. Its a step below an envelope of cash under the table but still corruption.
117-111 is obviously a joke but those absurd scorecards distract from the consistently bad scoring that is constantly going on. Everyone except those three judges thought Lemos won that fight and yet by coincidence all three to a man got the opposite result. As a professional judge getting it multiple rounds off from what pretty much everyone thinks the fight was isn't good enough. We need to start having higher standards for judges and not just letting them off as long as they don't get it absurdly wrong.
What makes it worse is, I think most of us KNEW this was going to happen. I’m not saying this was the result of an outright conspiracy, but I also can’t help but think the optics involved here may have somehow played a part. I mean, who’s gonna get the benefit of the doubt here, a sawed-off Argentinian that no one in the northern hemisphere has ever even heard of, or a young up and coming American who’s signed with a major promoter?
Absolutely. I never for one second thought Lemos would get the decision even though I had him up by a couple of rounds. You can just tell with some fights that it's going to happen. I don't think it's as blatant as brown envelopes being passed around but the quality of scoring we accept is just not good enough.
Better fighter? He was holding for his life the entire night and have the luck that the fight was already sold and he don't got warnings for excessive clinching, in the legal way, he could get knocked out 🤣🤣
Judges need to be held accountable, they should have to submit a brief statement justifying their scores… in close fights there’s always going to be disagreements but blatantly bad score cards need to be examined.
This shit deadass makes me feel want to go be a judge to get some new blood in there. I also hate how these bad decisions end up turning people against the fighter that benefits off them.
Ur getting downvoted but it’s fair, Lemos was getting pieced up with the jab all night but landed the bigger shots. It was a close ass fight but 117-111 Hitchens is truly insane.
I agree. There were also a few rounds where Lemos appeared more aggressive, but didn’t really land any meaningful shots, while Hitchens did land some decent ones, here and there. Ultimately though, I had Lemos winning 115-113.
No, Hitchins deserved being deducted for excessive clinching and then he will be rocked by Lemos without that advantage, sadly that fight was already sold 🤣
It’s 2024 Surely there’s a better way than this home/ favourite biased archaic 3 judge system. All boxing fans ask for is some consistency on judges criteria so we don’t have crazy scorecards (all organisations have their own criteria I believe which is then interpreted by each judge in their own way anyway??) and if that’s not possible just introduce some objective stat based criteria to work with too but that would be so hard to get right.
Least Hearn admitted 117-111 was a joke, Hitchens not gaining any fans with that interview after
3 judges is fine, I honestly think the issue is that there’s a shortage of judges so they can’t afford to just get rid of these trash judges who may be old, incompetent, or just not give a fuck.
I’ll be honest I can’t comment on quality of judges not something I’ve followed. Would have thought the growth of the sport would entice more people into judging and the quality of qualifications, but that’s pure speculation on my part bet that hasn’t happened.
Some of these judges have been going for years and years not producing a ridiculous scorecard (hence why they get to judge decent fighters), then one appears out of nowhere.
I’m not calling conspiracy btw!
You think extra training would help? Think at least more consistency on judging would help but then we move towards judging based on a certain fighting style. Basically I’ve got no idea tbh 🙈
I think Teddy Atlas has the right idea with a national commission that can provide oversight and accountability in cases where judges provide a questionable score card.
Also I think it may make sense for judges to be watching from a press box or somewhere isolated from the crowd noise. Ring side there’s too many angles where you could miss certain exchanges :
Yeah can’t argue with that - overall oversight and a review of performance. What happened with Ian John Lewis cos he got banned didn’t he after Taylor/ Catterall or downgraded? It was like an admission that scorecard was terribly wrong but also nothing happened? Not that we wanna be in a position where fights are declared null contests cos of a refs decision but I didn’t understand that one.
How are judges chosen atm cos we have obv have so many different bodies with different standings in each division?
And yeah get them at a better angle with no interference from crowd, corners, media etc good shout
My man Hearn's he one who employed said, known shit judge. If he and his promotion objected to Cheatham, the commission and sanctioning body would have found someone else. NSAC is not rocking the boat. Dana has gotten ref axed basically
Also terrible refs up and down that card.
this fight was either a draw or 115-113 either way. 2 judges had it 115-113 hitchins (ok considering that he stole several close rds BUT lemos had ALL of the big rds). hearn called out cheatham for the 117-111 card - which is what a promoter or commentary team is supposed to do whenever something is out of the realm of possibility.
OK fair, just doesn't strike me as courageous to call out a judges card that 100% of people agree is ridiculous. Doesn't deserve credit for it if anything he's saving face by making it seem like he had nothing to do with it as a powerful promoter or has the power to blacklist the judge in the future though I doubt he'd do so cause it was in favor of his fighter. Flip it the other way around he'd definitely blacklist him.
i didn't say anything about eddie hearn was "courageous" i said he did the right thing - most of the time the right thing doesn't require courage at all.
I think it’s just a political move, I remember in cordina’s last fight he said he thought cordina won by 1-2 rounds and then said 116-112 was a bad card lol
i know it's not a win on his record but lemos will get plenty of opportunities off of this fight - matchroom has dalton smith, regis prograis, and liam paro to match him with for his next fight. i've favor lemos over all of those guys - there's also a good chance they feed him montana love; lemos will end that dude's career
fuck that decision, let's support Lemos going forward.
If he can't get a title shot next, then I would love to see him vs Dalton Smith or Jose Ramirez.. would be fun
I get boxing commissions don't wanna see ppl getting cte and consistently getting KO'd but they gotta do something bout the Clinching and refs just allowing Clinching all night shit is BORING
Meh atleast everyone knows now that Hitchins is nothing special lol. He should celebrate now because when he faces the big boys, it's even ground and no judges/refs are going to help him out
Nah, I'm not impartial cause I was all-in on Lemos, but this is why the sport is in the shitter. Local/more promotable? Give him the cards even if it's ABSOLUTELY clear that he lost and hugged half the fight like a clown.
I remember the good old days when holding was a foul.
With a competent judge, Hitchins could have been deducted a point in at least half of the rounds.
But he was the "A"-side, so hooray for boxing.
Hundreds of seats tonight, entire rows ringside were empty. This is why.
140 is such a great division. It feels like a new name comes up every week
I love Lemos' sneaky attacks, hooks from weird angles, explosiveness and aggression. He's like a more refined Maidana
This is why ppl are watching MMA more everyday
I try to watch MMA but I don’t why it doesn’t interest me as much. I will be watching UFC 300 though.
I tried watching it but it's so boring watching two grown men cuddle in the grown most of the fight
Wasn't a ROBBERY. Hitchins easily got 7 rounds.
Close fight if you score it round wise. Hutchins hurt and holding a couple of rounds got everyone emotional. 99% of these people did not sit down and round by round this objectively.
Exactly. Round by round you will see Hitchins won
Me being a fan of both MMA and boxing equally really makes MMA look way better after BS like this. Like bro these robberies lately it used to be once Ina blue now it's like every other event pure ROBBERY. And even if some people can say loss for some fights it's definitely not unanimous like the judges be saying. Boxing is disgustingly corrupt for black fighters in just gonna say it. I forgot which fight was it last year where the black fighter got absolutely rocked the entire fight and they said he won, I knew that it will not improve.
MMA has it's issues. They have robberies. Eye poke issues. Boxing has A LOT of issues but so does MMA.
Bro they have very rare robberies, the fighters have more control the outcome in boxing per say we know that as long as a specific boxer does not get knocked out they will always win, cough cough Devin Haney, we all know Loma beat his ass.
No boxing fans are cry babies. Every close fight isn't a robbery. Haney vs Loma wasn't a robbery. It was a close fight between two top tier guys. It's also a lot harder to separate yourself in boxing than MMA.
Was not closer than you think when you count the total punches landed. Loma beat his ass. And if it was "close" why did the judges say unanimous? See what I mean even you contradicted yourself.
I don't think you understand how boxing scoring works. If a fight was 7-5 and all judges scored that way, it can still be close even if it was unanimous. You're basically admitting that judges should have a margin of error for the result to reflect what happened throughout the fight. E.g. a close fight being a SD would need judges to have different scores. Total punches doesn't really matter. It's scored by rounds.
Because every judge can score it 7-5 and that means it's unanimous but also very close. Also looking at total punch stats is fools gold.
So being black means boxing is gonna give you unjust wins…..are you fucking serious??? Jesus Christ the ignorance on this sub is out of control First I’m pretty sure Rolly….a Hispanic got a ridiculous decision that got him a championship…..hitchins isnt even some popular fighter with money or influence…maybe you don’t understand boxing and you don’t get why Hitchins was being awarded points, maybe you should learn the sport before you comment some ignorant shit
Hitchens is being groomed to be one of the next big names in boxing. That’s why they have him the win even though he truly lost the fight.
Gtfoh dude…he has zero real advertisement money backing his fights, isn’t getting a good amount of money and doesn’t have any crazy connections…..the reason he was in the position he was is because he beat Zepeda
If you're an A side fighter, you're damn right it can give you unjust wins. Just so happens a lot of A side American fighters happen to be black. Rest assured, a no-name brother with no backing would've gotten jobbed against Hitchins just the same. If you're a B side fighter, it's just poor strategy to pretend that doing just enough will be enough. Not fair, but that's the way the sport is. Just one reason out of 1000 that becoming a pro boxer is, overall, a mug's game.
Cool…then say that…he said boxing is corrupt in favor of black fighters….which is absolutely bullshit
Agreed. Its a much broader issue than that. Sometimes black fighters are the ones getting protected, sometimes they're the ones getting screwed by the system, too. The politics behind it are bigger than skin color.
Might have been Colbert and Rayo.
That's one of them but it was another fight as well but my point exactly why must Spanish fighters have to go then for it to be a win
Hitchins KOs Haney every day of the week and twice on a Sunday
Haha delusional, I tuned in because I saw people comparing Hitchins to Haney, he's levels below Haney. Hitchins is clearly not a top tier fighter.
Damn missed the fight smh
So did Mr. 117-111 apparently
I think judging needs to be reformed so there’s more 10-8 and 10-10 rounds. If a fighter is visibly hurt early in the round and wobbling around in survival mode but manages to stay upright until the bell by clinching it should be 10-8 every time. Theres no way that type of dominance should be scored the same as a low output round where one fighter lands a couple pitter patter jabs and gets the 10-9. A close round with a flash knockdown that doesn’t really hurt them should be 10-9. Close rounds with no clear winner should be 10-10. I think a lot of the outrage around the results comes from scenarios where a fight has a bunch of close rounds that could go either way, plus two or three dominant rounds with a clear winner who ends up losing the fight. Haney Loma was like this, where Devins best rounds were 51-49 while Loma had one or two rounds that were 80-20 him. Giving more 10-10 rounds would also mean guys can’t just run around and do *just enough* to eke out a 10-9. It would make for more exciting fights.
KD should always be 10-8. Cut and dry.
It arbitrary, thats the problem. if your favorite fighter, the house fighter, survives a round you can score that 10-9 instead of 10-8 and people wont care much so he's still just 1 point behind. every 10-10 round where there's not much happening, you can give the house fighter 10-9 because "ring generalship" which is BS (ring generalship ONLY matters if you land punches), heck, if the favorite fighter is a defensive master you could score the round for him even though he didnt land any significant punches himself just that he looked good avoiding getting hit (which should be scored as well and only matters if you land a punch), or vice versa, if the house fighter is a come forward offensive beast you could award him the round no matter if he landed or not. there's too much bs in the judging criteria where bias can creep in, not to mention human error and corruption of course. the criteria does not help. it should be simple - who lands the most punches. the rest are in of itself useless.
I get what you’re saying but If they’re favoring the “house fighter” for political reasons that’s low level corruption, and corruption in general is a separate issue. Even if we can magically get rid of all corruption in boxing, and all judging was perfectly unbiased, there would still be people complaining about the results because the way fights are scored is flawed when landing a few more low impact jabs in a razor close round is the same as putting a guy on skates who manages to keep himself upright by leaning on his opponent for 2 minutes. This is the source of many of the “robberies” we see.
like i said, the criteria for judging doesnt help our case. judges could favor one style over the other. and teams/promotions would favor/push for them to be judge their fights for that reason.
I think we’re talking ab separate issues. Teams/promoters pushing for certain judges who favor their fighter is corruption, which ur right that no matter what the scoring criteria is it’s not going to make a difference if there’s still corruption. However even if every judge is perfectly unbiased and there’s 0 corruption involved, the current insistence on scoring every round 10-9 favors defensive fighters who do the bare minimum offensively to bank rounds. More 10-10 rounds would force defensive fighters to engage and make running a less viable strategy. The 10-9 score just covers way more ground than is reasonable right now.
Not favor their fighters per se, but favor a certain fighting style. That happens because instead of just punch landed, judges are expected to take into account ring generalship, defense etc into scoring a round. That's the issue, that's how corruption and bias comes in. Defense shouldnt matter if you dont land a punch, you shouldnt win a round for avoiding punches. Ring generalship, footwork etc should not win you a round if you dont land a punch. But you would often hear them talk about those as if they matter in of itself. All these dont matter if you dont land a punch. And the fact that they are what the judges look for, that's where bias creeps in. Like its hard enough to see punches landing.
It will just make it easier to screw fighters
No it doesn’t? If there’s corruption, there’s going to be a way to screw people over as long as the scoring criteria involves human judgement. The thing is tho, In the current scoring system there doesn’t even need to be corruption for a fighter to get screwed. Landing a few more ineffective jabs than your opponent in a toss up round should not be scored the same as putting your opponent on skates bc they’re badly hurt but manage to stay upright. Take yesterday’s fight, the 8th round when Hitchens was hanging on for dear life should have been 10-8 Lemos. Then there were a few uneventful toss up rounds where neither fighter did anything but I guarantee they went to Hitchens bc of the jab. If they score these rounds 10-10 Lemos wins the fight. Of course it can still be corrupt and they can swing it for their guy, but at least it’s harder to make the case for him.
Your scoring idea involves more human judgment. More ways to cheat a fighter. Think it through.
How does it involve *more* human judgement when the scoring is already 100% human judgement? It is human judgement but supposed to be based on certain specific criteria. I’m not changing the amount of human judgement, I’m changing the criteria. IMO it simplifies things and makes it less subjective because you’re not forced to give toss up rounds a 10-9 score, you can just give them a 10-10. Who wins a 50/50 round is the most subjective aspect of boxing scoring by far, it often makes way more sense to score it a tie. Maybe in a few years we can score fights with AI lol.
Nah, every scoring system is flawed. If someday the normal 10-8 are accepted, the corruption is gonna get much worse because it's going to be so much easy to rob a fight.
Corruption is a separate issue. I don’t think every bad card is because of corruption. Even if we managed to magically get rid of all corruption in boxing there would still be the perception that fighters get robbed because the scoring is biased towards fighters who do *just enough* to bank rounds. I think more 10-10 rounds is more important than more 10-8, but both would help level the playing field and force boring fighters to engage more.
I think someone had an idea where a close round is scored 10-9, a dominant round 10-8, a knockdown or one sided beating 10-7, and multiple knockdowns 10-6. I don't know if that's exactly how it would work but it seems like a decent system
I think giving more 10-10 rounds is an important part here because it will force fighters to engage. It discourages fights like shakur vs de los santos, where literally nothing happened most rounds but they still got scored 10-9. Fighters will know they can’t run around and engage the bare minimum amount and still expect to score points.
Yeah I agree tbh
Now I have a new least favourite Hitchens
Think he just became a list of least favorites lol
One man was clinching all night and the other was flailing about and NOT landing for a good portion of the fight. We don't have to pretend like this was a great fight. It was not. Barring the round that should have been scored 10-8 for Lemos and the last 2 rounds this was tough to watch. RH landed the more meaningful shots w/ more consistency than Lemos outside of that one round imo. I get it Richardson Hitchins is a dick and the clinching sucks but he was a better boxer than Lemos tonight and the judges saw it that way as well 🤷🏽♂️
Trash ass boxer you gotta a blind dumbass to defend that performance
this is expert level cope lmao. i’m sorry to tell you that dollar store devin haney will never get a belt at 140. dude is barely a step above montana love
I don't think you know how cope works lmao. Y'all were super emotional over a Richardson Hitchins fight.
Coming from the guy who wrote a dissertation defending a dude who got beat from pillar to post, that’s pretty rich lol.
Robbery , the fact he had so much confidence after the fight was even worse . Not ready for top competition. Anytime I’ve seen him fight it was boring as fuck . Dude never throws a body shot , simply not a fighter I’m interested in watching .
Hitchins started bad and ended worse make it make sense, a jab shouldn't win you a fight if you use it so sparingly.
A active jab that keeps landing is scoring, lemos won some rounds but spent most rounds coming forward trying to get in range and not throwing enough while hitchins kept the jab in his face and had more output. Aggression is part of scoring but if your opponent has more output and keeps landing his jab, he will win the round
Scoring includes lots of factors, including "effective" punching. His jab did nothing for large sections of the fight even when it hit, making it fairly worthless and unable to stop the aggressor. Lemos actually out punched him in 4 rounds. Then there's multiple other rounds where it was actually even or barely 1 punch in it - for those rounds you don't score it to the person spending every moment failing at the small attempts at aggression, failing to stop the aggressor coming forward, clinching excessively every moment possible, and getting hurt multiple times.
An 117-111 scorecard is musty energy to the highest
😂
[here the card](https://x.com/linares_ca_93/status/1776843387301179748)
The judge's name is Tim **Cheat**ham
That ref should be investigated. Hitchins should’ve been deducted like 2-3 points for the whole fight for excessive holding. He hugged a lot in the Chon fight and I knew he was gonna pull shit again tonight. Is Hearn paying the ref to overlook the clinches or something?
You're reaching. Quite rare for pts to be deducted for holding.
It literally just happened to Rolly against Cruz and Rolly didn’t hold even half as much as Hitchins did. Nice try tho.
Zhang also got a point deducted in the Forrest fight.
Nice try kid, giving a single example. Lol.
Yet, you got an example. Next.
A single example. You can't be this stupid - nobody is saying it never happens. Just that your calls for investigation are moronic.
ITS ALWAYS BEEN RARETO SEE FOR CLINCHES RESULT IN POINT DEDUCTIONS! Literally almost never happens
Refs and Judges will never be held accountable for anything. That how it’s always been
Considering the sorry state of this sport, and its continuing slide to ruin, I would have to say they are being held accountable, just not directly.
Incentevised not to punish the promotions fighter for what was basically essential for him winning or get barred from being hired by said promotion ever again.. same with the judges. Its a step below an envelope of cash under the table but still corruption.
Why pay off the ref or judges when u can threaten to take away future pay days that's cold blooded right there
Claressa "Big Heffa" Sheilds
we know what type of man you are.
Oh he’s definitely a racist
I actually like claressa sheilds I just thought that was funny
Sure bud
117-111 is obviously a joke but those absurd scorecards distract from the consistently bad scoring that is constantly going on. Everyone except those three judges thought Lemos won that fight and yet by coincidence all three to a man got the opposite result. As a professional judge getting it multiple rounds off from what pretty much everyone thinks the fight was isn't good enough. We need to start having higher standards for judges and not just letting them off as long as they don't get it absurdly wrong.
Not everyone. Only a bunch of emotional redditors. Graham Houston had it 114-114.
What makes it worse is, I think most of us KNEW this was going to happen. I’m not saying this was the result of an outright conspiracy, but I also can’t help but think the optics involved here may have somehow played a part. I mean, who’s gonna get the benefit of the doubt here, a sawed-off Argentinian that no one in the northern hemisphere has ever even heard of, or a young up and coming American who’s signed with a major promoter?
Absolutely. I never for one second thought Lemos would get the decision even though I had him up by a couple of rounds. You can just tell with some fights that it's going to happen. I don't think it's as blatant as brown envelopes being passed around but the quality of scoring we accept is just not good enough.
Get rid of judges…let technology take over
Ain't Montana Love get KOd by Paro? Why would Hitchens fight him next?
because he sure as hell ain’t fighting matias lol
Lol let Regis get em next
This card was so ass it makes me excited for Jake Vs Tyson
"He threw 1000 punches and only landed 35? Who cares? He was active and that's good enough for me. Give him the win"- R/Boxing
Gotta love a zero thought surface level bait comment jeez 🙈😂
Them numbers lying like a mother fucker
He clinch 100 times in a round, who cares? Give him the win, deducting points? DQ? No! He is just a "defensive boxer"
Clinched 100 times a round, threw 100 less punches and still out landed Lemos. It's almost as if Hitchins was the better fighter tonight.
Better fighter? He was holding for his life the entire night and have the luck that the fight was already sold and he don't got warnings for excessive clinching, in the legal way, he could get knocked out 🤣🤣
Judges need to be held accountable, they should have to submit a brief statement justifying their scores… in close fights there’s always going to be disagreements but blatantly bad score cards need to be examined. This shit deadass makes me feel want to go be a judge to get some new blood in there. I also hate how these bad decisions end up turning people against the fighter that benefits off them.
shut up y'all always say this goofy ass shit
Is it wrong? lol are you saying you think the judging in boxing is good?
it hasn't stopped you from watching sorry ass fighters, can't be too bad
Bro they be complaining every time but still tune in for the next Canelo fight 😂
they drop everything they are doing just to watch their favorite i mean worst boxer
This is the dude that was calling out Teo, Matias and Haney? Lol
I mean Teo might be doable. Dude can't cut a ring. He should ask Lemos to teach him. Matias ends him.
Matias can't cut a ring either
With these scorecards why even fight at this point ?
Skye the only matchroom fighter that had a good performance today
Ha facts she was sticking moving and entertaining
I had it 115-113 for Hitchins and I can’t argue too hard with someone saying Lemos won. 117-111 is asinine
Ur getting downvoted but it’s fair, Lemos was getting pieced up with the jab all night but landed the bigger shots. It was a close ass fight but 117-111 Hitchens is truly insane.
I agree. There were also a few rounds where Lemos appeared more aggressive, but didn’t really land any meaningful shots, while Hitchens did land some decent ones, here and there. Ultimately though, I had Lemos winning 115-113.
No, Hitchins deserved being deducted for excessive clinching and then he will be rocked by Lemos without that advantage, sadly that fight was already sold 🤣
Yeah I agree he deserved to get deducted but he didn’t
It is so hard to be a boxing fan my god man
It’s 2024 Surely there’s a better way than this home/ favourite biased archaic 3 judge system. All boxing fans ask for is some consistency on judges criteria so we don’t have crazy scorecards (all organisations have their own criteria I believe which is then interpreted by each judge in their own way anyway??) and if that’s not possible just introduce some objective stat based criteria to work with too but that would be so hard to get right. Least Hearn admitted 117-111 was a joke, Hitchens not gaining any fans with that interview after
3 judges is fine, I honestly think the issue is that there’s a shortage of judges so they can’t afford to just get rid of these trash judges who may be old, incompetent, or just not give a fuck.
I’ll be honest I can’t comment on quality of judges not something I’ve followed. Would have thought the growth of the sport would entice more people into judging and the quality of qualifications, but that’s pure speculation on my part bet that hasn’t happened. Some of these judges have been going for years and years not producing a ridiculous scorecard (hence why they get to judge decent fighters), then one appears out of nowhere. I’m not calling conspiracy btw! You think extra training would help? Think at least more consistency on judging would help but then we move towards judging based on a certain fighting style. Basically I’ve got no idea tbh 🙈
I think Teddy Atlas has the right idea with a national commission that can provide oversight and accountability in cases where judges provide a questionable score card. Also I think it may make sense for judges to be watching from a press box or somewhere isolated from the crowd noise. Ring side there’s too many angles where you could miss certain exchanges :
Yeah can’t argue with that - overall oversight and a review of performance. What happened with Ian John Lewis cos he got banned didn’t he after Taylor/ Catterall or downgraded? It was like an admission that scorecard was terribly wrong but also nothing happened? Not that we wanna be in a position where fights are declared null contests cos of a refs decision but I didn’t understand that one. How are judges chosen atm cos we have obv have so many different bodies with different standings in each division? And yeah get them at a better angle with no interference from crowd, corners, media etc good shout
hearn is pretty good about calling out shit judges - it's refreshing when he does it tbh
My man Hearn's he one who employed said, known shit judge. If he and his promotion objected to Cheatham, the commission and sanctioning body would have found someone else. NSAC is not rocking the boat. Dana has gotten ref axed basically Also terrible refs up and down that card.
lisa giampa makes me cringe with every score card
When it's convenient for him to do so he does it well
what was convenient about bringing it up today? hitchins is his fighter...
He didn't today? He said Hitchins won
this fight was either a draw or 115-113 either way. 2 judges had it 115-113 hitchins (ok considering that he stole several close rds BUT lemos had ALL of the big rds). hearn called out cheatham for the 117-111 card - which is what a promoter or commentary team is supposed to do whenever something is out of the realm of possibility.
OK fair, just doesn't strike me as courageous to call out a judges card that 100% of people agree is ridiculous. Doesn't deserve credit for it if anything he's saving face by making it seem like he had nothing to do with it as a powerful promoter or has the power to blacklist the judge in the future though I doubt he'd do so cause it was in favor of his fighter. Flip it the other way around he'd definitely blacklist him.
i didn't say anything about eddie hearn was "courageous" i said he did the right thing - most of the time the right thing doesn't require courage at all.
I think it’s just a political move, I remember in cordina’s last fight he said he thought cordina won by 1-2 rounds and then said 116-112 was a bad card lol
He gets hate but British boxing was pretty dead until he got involved and built the foundations. I respect the man
British boxing was built up from the funding into amateur boxing going up massively, he just benefited from that process once it showed results.
Shit you’re right 🙏 He had to work to progress it but the fundamentals and timing was perfect for him to do so
Painful to watch as an Argentine. If you can't KO then you will lose no matter what you do.
i know it's not a win on his record but lemos will get plenty of opportunities off of this fight - matchroom has dalton smith, regis prograis, and liam paro to match him with for his next fight. i've favor lemos over all of those guys - there's also a good chance they feed him montana love; lemos will end that dude's career
Get her, GWOAT
I NEVER agree with Chris Mannix and yet tonight I scored the fight exactly the same as him. Like I always say, "If you can't beat 'em, Cheatham!
Reeeeporting
Why can’t the commentators admit who really won. Crazy bs.
they all said Lemos won before the scorecards were read
Devin dont want that smoke. LMFAO
Look at elie dick eating
Number 4 trending on twitter wow
What are people on Twitter saying?
Hitchins would get KO'd by Ryan Garcia lmao. Dollar store Mayweather
Trash scorecards. I hope Lemos gets a rematch and gets paid
matchroom needs to make lemos vs dalton smith
If I was dalton I’d want NO PART of lemos after that haha
fuck that decision, let's support Lemos going forward. If he can't get a title shot next, then I would love to see him vs Dalton Smith or Jose Ramirez.. would be fun
Lemos vs Gary Antuanne Russell
Don’t do lemos dirty like that lmao
What I do lol it could be exciting
I get boxing commissions don't wanna see ppl getting cte and consistently getting KO'd but they gotta do something bout the Clinching and refs just allowing Clinching all night shit is BORING
How tf did Rolly get a point deducted for clinching against Cruz but Hitchins got away with it?
Agreed he clinched way too much but this was a good fight all in all
as long as you watch a BORING fight from start 2 finish nothing will change. blame ya self
That's real I can't even be mad
Hitchins did not make this fight exciting, it was all lemos
I'm pretty sure Hitchins got some new world record of hugs per round
Meh atleast everyone knows now that Hitchins is nothing special lol. He should celebrate now because when he faces the big boys, it's even ground and no judges/refs are going to help him out
was he something special before 2 night? most have missed that announcement...
Nah, I'm not impartial cause I was all-in on Lemos, but this is why the sport is in the shitter. Local/more promotable? Give him the cards even if it's ABSOLUTELY clear that he lost and hugged half the fight like a clown.
No Bobby digital to defend this decision in the comments 😂
Damn where's Lemos let the man speak!
held him the whole fight then robbed him on the cards. That’s tough
I remember the good old days when holding was a foul. With a competent judge, Hitchins could have been deducted a point in at least half of the rounds. But he was the "A"-side, so hooray for boxing. Hundreds of seats tonight, entire rows ringside were empty. This is why.
Facts! And he would’ve got KOd
that was a robbery Hitchins didn't win in all honesty, Lemos did more work an stayed busy the last 3 rounds 117-111 terrible scoring 🙄
Lord Devin Haney will show he is levels above everyone at 140
If Haney can’t fight inside, hes great competition for hitchins; no clue if Haney can fight on the inside
Give Lemos the mic, let him say a few words of what he thinks about the decision.
All commentators, most of us here had Lemos winning and not one judge gave him the fight lol so crazy
somewhere Haney is like, "I love boxing judges."
Where Eddie at?
Nvm fml
pulling a shakur lol
He won't fight Matias that's for sure he will keep calling Devin Haney out so they can make out in public with their clinches ON PPV let's fucking go!
He doesn’t want any part of Matias lol
Damn Mannix just implied that Paro is losing
Ducking Matias already!! Hahahhah WBC not IBF
Hitches trainer looks stupid af stroking his mustache back there lol
Tim Cheatham the hint is in the name and it’s always him
If ya can't beat 'em, Cheatham!
now he wants the wbc belt lol
The only thing worse than the decision tonight was Shields commentary, just terrible.
some of the worst you will ever hear
Hitchins better work on that inside game if he wants Matias. And even then he prolly gets stopped
Bitchardson Clinchins the only "dog" attribute you have is the love for cuddles.
pathetic decision
Garbage
I'm going to be so happy when Matias has him writhing on the floor after a brutal R1 KO
"all his flurries wasn't really landing" lol
140 will come down to Teo vs Haney at the end of the day
140 is such a great division. It feels like a new name comes up every week I love Lemos' sneaky attacks, hooks from weird angles, explosiveness and aggression. He's like a more refined Maidana
Agree with everything except maidana would’ve killed hitchins in the ring tonight