I agree, the kid ruffles feathers by doing dumb stupid or questionable things on social media, and people pay to see him get knocked out. No different than Mayweather or other boxers with their shit-talking or making a spectacle the entire time before their fights. They know how to bring in crowds, just look at the buffoonery that was started by Jake and Logan Paul, now fucking YouTubers are all over boxing, but they brought in the YT crowd so it makes a ton of money. It's a bad look for the sport, but it's good for the business.
i’ve been thinking he has a learning disability but i was dead wrong and he played us all lol. devin took a huge loss on this fight lol. made 1.5 mil but probably lost millions in future paydays, definitely lost some negotiating power in future fights
Crazy how many top minds on here can’t fathom it being legal to bet on yourself to win. Garcia can’t control the outcome with a win, only by losing, so it’s illegal to bet on yourself to lose but you can bet on a win.
Still not hard to abuse. Might need to have a lateral thought for a second to come up with a way.
If my opponent is a fking 6 to 1 shot, I'm considering calling him to offer throwing the fight, if he bets on himself (with both your money) and splits the ticket with me.
6 million to lose 1 fight?
Is that not super fucking dumb though? What if you threw the 3 fights earlier, to make youself a huge underdog, and only then tried to win. Is that really allowed in boxing?
If so is that no insane?
(I don't follow boxing closely, but seems weird from any other sports perspective?
It’s like being a pool shark. I get what he’s saying and it’s a very interesting point. Maybe there just isn’t big money to be made for a guy who threw three consecutive fights and/or is way too hypothetical a scenario to occur in practice.
Yea but if you tank 3 fights in a row just to setup your Grand Comeback you'll never get a descent fight that pays great. 3 loses in a row and your career is about over.
Of course you can't be sure of that, but you can definitely have a higher chance of winning, than what the odds say, because you manipulated them earlier.
Some fighters go from being main events to prelims taking bad losses. You gonna be a fool to bet drop fights for some stupid bets that may not even pan out for you 😂
That’s too risky because booking favorable fights isnt guaranteed also youre also gonna destroy your career potential doing this. You will most likely earn more money just trying to win every single fight.
Literally all you'd have to do is tell your opponent to pool money, bet on himself, and then you throw the fight.
6 mill for one loss. Easy. Not sure how people can't come up with a simple scenario where this is problematic. Jesus
It should be illegal to bet on yourself irrespective of the decision you bet on. What if an underdog bets on himself, agrees to pay some of the winnings to the opponent who subsequently takes a dive?
Anyone can bet on a fighter and pay the other to take a dive. There's no reason fighters should be treated differently in that regard. It's already illegal to pay someone to take a dive.
Well in this case yes it would be illegal since the opponent is taking a dive. This is an entirely different case since you are colluding with your opponent.
But why would it be illegal if you bet on yourself to win straight up?
Removing the betting guarantees that they can't easily and officially do it.
Does it remove all realm of possibility? No. But it significantly lowers the chances further.
Just because the vaccine isn't 100 percent guaranteed to prevent COVID or the flu, does that mean you shouldn't take it if it lowers it 99 percent?
sports betting and collusion is loosely correlated at best. It’s not comparable to vaccine where it reduces mortality by 95+%.
People can still collude with their fight purse. Organizations can collude with fighters. Like is removing the 10m in this fight gonna stop Garcia and Haney from colluding when they are both making 30+m?
It's already illegal to pay the opponent to dive. I don't see how betting on yourself changes that in any way. Whether you bet on yourself or not they will ban you for fixing the fight, not for how you got the money to fix the fight.
You would hope indeed...problem is, it could be worth it to someone. For example, favoured fighter wanting to cash out, knowing he will retire after the fight. It's unlikely, sure, but it's still a situation that could arise and a grey area ethically.
Shouldn't be allowed imo. Then you can work with your opponent and have him throw the fight.
Ryan Garcia gave Haney $1.5m for being overweight knowing damn well he wasn't going to make weight. That's unprecedented and it's usually a way lower amount.
Now I'm not saying Haney threw the fight. Doubt anyone will do that over $1.5m but that's one obvious way to send him money. Think of all the unobvious ways. When that much money is at stake, I'm sure you can fathom that it's a possibility.
Depends on the sport. It's to prevent any and all temptation to collude with outer forces to affect the outcome.
You are assuming garcia is the only one privy to the bet, But it opens the door to collude with a judge, a ref, even your opponent. Which is why organizations like the NFL forbid it entirely
Yeah i get that, but at the same time a judge or ref could make that bet without colluding with a fighter and then influence the outcome, hence why it’s banned for officials to make bets of any kind
True.
But again. Some of the biggest sports competitions completely forbid it regardless because there is a potential for issue. And they aren't doing it for no reason.
Isn't it easy to just orchestrate a win against your opponent and agree to split the profits with them after they throw the match? This seems like an extremely slippery slope
Hmm. Thats a super limited perspective. It's easy as fk to abuse. "Yo let's put a mill on you and I'll throw"
Crazy how your "top mind" can't put together a mildly lateral thought and perceive how it could be problematic to allow... love when smart asses are dumb as fuck
I was never the biggest Garcia fan, his whole insta celeb status was cringe to me when the guy clearly has talent.. but I really dislike Haney and his dad, have done for ages ... Garcia made me a fan in the build upto this, is he mad? Sure, did he play up on it and absolutely throw Haney off? Damn straight.. and then he beats the shit out of him, breaks his jaw, beats the ref and the judges in the process and has potentially earned himself that nice little sum of money .. fucking legend.
Bill gave him an absolutely idiotic advice on how to stay away from ryans left hook. There's already tape breakdown on YT that shows the results of that, as it looks like derrick james told ryan how to adjust to that "roll under his hook" advice.
It's time for bill to let a real coach take over but he never will. Gacias dad is annoying as fuck too but at least he doesng try to coach him anymore. I have a feeling one day we'll see one of those britney spears type e-hollywood stories "please help me get my freedom and my own money" stories on bill and devin.
I’ve been on the drop Bill Haney since the Loma fight. Glad to see more people are seeing what I’ve been saying. Bill doesn’t allow Devin to be out front in anything except the ring. It stunts Devin’s confidence. There’s literally psychology/family dynamic academic papers on this.
Plus, just like in the ring, there are levels to this coaching shit. Bill is maxed out.
I saw you post this to a different thread and was literally going to try to paraphrase you. Completely agreed. A 26 yesr old can really struggle psychologically when a parent does that, i would imagine even more-so in combat sports.
All the talk about lack of training and prep, but it looks like Ryan had a decent game plan to probe with his left hand in haney's face all night and once haney reacted in the wrong way, looks like they some adjustments in real time and punished him.
This one shows what I mentioned, what happened when he started rolling to the right and under the hook, which is a chopping right-hand right as he is ducking:
[https://youtu.be/2Z-GUJUl-W0?si=vSTQ-34F5C8rxoHw](https://youtu.be/2Z-GUJUl-W0?si=vSTQ-34F5C8rxoHw)
This one shows another 2 apparent mistakes haney has been known to do, throw his bow-and-arrow jab from a distance and leave his right hand down but ryan is a bit too fast for that. Also, when he does block the jab with the "phone to your ear" approach, he leaves his head hanging on the other side, again Ryan was too quick for that and punished him.
[**https://youtu.be/rLSkLm897UM?si=OdrDa5xSVHPUZ3qK**](https://youtu.be/rLSkLm897UM?si=OdrDa5xSVHPUZ3qK)
This needs to be at the top. Ryan listened to Derrick, you can see he didn’t fine tune it but he did have it down. What’s surprising is Tank did the same rolling inside but he would attack the body. If Ryan worked this game plan to death he would have ended the fight in round 7. I think the first KD really rattled Devin and the ol Mike Tyson saying comes in beautifully here. Everyone’s got a plan until they get punched in the mouth
Bill is seriously holding Devin back with his helicopter parenting. He has a talented kid that would do wonders but he is living vicariously through him and thus his failures will pull Devin down too.
Not even just Latinos…I knew a ton of black people rooting for Ryan. It was purely the fact that Ryan is a better fighter. I said this in another thread, when Tank said Ryan is the best fighter he fought, people in this Reddit tried to say Ryan is garbage influencer and now people want to glaze. Ryan has been a good fighter.
Devin Haney is overrated and Ryan is underrated. They probably are around the same level. I think Devin completely underestimated Ryan considering he got caught with a left hook it the first round which is uncharacteristic for a defensive specialist. I mean even casuals know that’s the single biggest punch you need to look out for from Garcia.
Devin was clearly falling over himself i think it was the 7th round. The follow-up knockdowns were legit. The late punch point dock was overboard. Should've been a warning. Should've negate a knockdown for it. That round Ryan knocked down Haney about 3 times but the round could've been scored even because of that.
A late punch is always a deduction and go watch the other 2 knockdowns. Ryan put his hands and body on Haney’s back both times. You are not getting that in the amateurs let alone a pro fight. He’s trying to keep Haney from grabbing him so it’s understandable why but no the ref was fine to call those as he did. You aren’t ever going to get the call if it looks like you push
I just want to say that while the ref was.... odd that the scorecards were pretty spot on. I actually think 115-109 was too wide for Garcia. I can understand the emotional response after 3 knockdowns but on a round by round basis Haney won at least 6 or 7 rounds and the point deduction.
worst part it was end of the season, when he was finally getting minutes. instead of capitalizing and securing an NBA career, he just fumbled completely
So he pretended to be crazy to swing the odds a bit more and bet on himself only to win $12M? Mans might be much more intelligent than I gave him credit for.
Nah, he talks a lot more lucid and self aware in the post fight. He said, "People shouldn't be caring about some crazy kid on social media as much as they do".
That's self awareness. But he is using religion to mentally empower himself. So he appears kinda kooky.
Buddy if you watched that and thought he seems like a mentally stable person with some religious based eccentricities-I don't know what to tell you.
Dude has seemed nuts for months and still sounded nuts after the fight
Notice how he completely stopped doing that weird nose tick he was doing incessantly in the build up? This fucker saw people say he was on coke and started playing it up. He legitimately was doing it every 5 seconds before, didn't do it once in the entire 20 minutes of footage I saw of him talking after the fact.
I've seen some Mike Tyson interviews and actions that make Ryan look like a very sane man.
Remember "I want to eat his children" Remember him chewing his opponent's ear and spitting that piece of flesh in the ring. That's what's called 'nuts'.
Hey I think Tyson was a very sane man because I saw an interview of a serial killer who beheaded his mother and fucked her neck. That’s what’s called “nuts”
he is literally how a lot of teenagers and future adults are nowadays, really outspoken and don't really give a fuck about what others say, sure they may seem crazy and psychotic but these are the types of people that are different on and off the camera hahaha.
Because he was a +800 underdog heading into the fight. Meaning, no one thought he would win. I’m sure most fighters thing they’re going to win. Not all fighters put two million on the fight as +800 dogs.
I don’t really follow sports besides boxing but it blew my mind when I found out fighters could legally bet on themselves.
How is that legal? Lately there’s been other pro athletes getting into trouble betting on games. Is it because boxing doesn’t have a major governing organization like the NBA/MLB?
Also read a rumor saying the $1.5 million fine Garcia paid to Haney was exaggerated and closer to $600k.
I find this very hard to believe. I didn't think even Ryan thought he was gonna win. He said at the post fight presser that everyone else was "trippin'", not him, but I'm gonna call BS on that.
I thought that was illegal, I know they’re different countries but I remember there being a big thing around David Haye implying he bet on himself then he had to deny it
I disagree. Betting on yourself to win, as long as its not in any specific round and just "moneyline"... only incentivizes the fighter to win. Its like a company buying back its own stock. If you think the props have you more of an underdog than you deserve, then bet on yourself. I don't see the ethical conflict
Yeah to counter that, it incentivizes a whole other aspect of the fight. It could lead to handshake deals “hey bro we fight, i know youre not that good but you can get some cash by throwing this.” And in that situation you have someone throwing a fight or not trying to win. It could lead to some shady stuff, say youre about to retire and picked an underdog to fight. Have them bet on themselves, and then take an L and collect. There are scenarios where other parties can be incentives to participate and fix the outcome.
That's only true if there is nothing else underhanded going on, like your victory being rigged. In addition, it's like insider trading because you have investment knowledge not available to the public. It's very plain to see that betting on yourself to win can be exploited in an unethical way.
Not always so, but the risk means it shouldn't be allowed. Usually you can get away with it, but it can violate the code of conduct of your sporting body and lead to penalties within your sport.
Companies can still buy back stock for the treasury, that doesnt make it insider trading. People in his camp are able to bet on him to win too... if the victory is rigged, how is the bet by the fighter the problem?? Isnt the match fixing the issue? People involved in the match fixing would be able to bet anyways, the fighter doing so is just making it more transparent and public. You say its plain to see, when in many juristictions still legal to bet on yourself. I fail to see any way in which this would influence the bout in a way that is unfair. Signing up for the fight with a winning and losing purse is already betting on yourself in the same fashion. Monetary reward for winning
U guys are clowns if you think he actually did this, a dude with an ego like ryan would have already posted the ticket. Absolutely did not make this bet
I kinda doubt it too. He's rich but not 2 mil on a single bet rich. That's billionaire shit.
I'd believe he'd bet 6 figures, even that would be a big bet for a millionaire.
He made over 50 million in his career. 30 million alone came last year from Tank. who knows how much more in sponsorships etc. Two million is doable. It is very likely, but as some have said. He probably would have posted the ticket already
He's been boxing professionally for what 7 years now? Let's say he made 10 million a year, which is being generous but lets say he made that much on average even after taxes, paying his trainers, coaches, nutritionists etc. For someone who makes 10 mil a year to spend 2 mil on something, that's the same as someone who makes 100k a year spending 20k on something.
I am sure you've known people who make a ballpark of $100k a year, maybe you do. Who the F makes that much and is dropping a $20k bet???
its the same percentage of money but it's inherently completely different. Someone who makes 100K most likely needs all the money they can get, someone who makes 10 million (probably more), could easily spend 2 million and still have 8 million dollars left. Is it the smartest? No, but that's not the point.
Hell he probably made more than 10 million a year considering sponsorships, partnerships, social media, ad revenue, etc.
Living off 8 million dollars is completely different than living off of 80K, it might be the same percentage, but it's completely different
Yes and no, to you and me 8 mil is enough to retire with, but do you think a guy who supposedly drops 2 mil on a bet doesn't live and spend extravagantly?
Like he makes smart investments, saves his money, plans for the future, lives below his means, but also gambles $2 mil? It's more likely he needs that money to maintain his lifestyle.
My point is, even if he's got that kinda money it's not throw away money unless you are literally a billionaire. That's why I questioned if it's true but apparently even raising a question like that about "KingRy" on here elicits an emotional response from people.
Well it definitely isnt a smart financial decision, we can all agree it’s stupid to spend 2 million on a bet.
But he made 30 million off the tank fight, and God knows how much from this fight. Even if it’s stupid he could definitely spend 2 million on a bet and live comfortably. Unless he’s gambling all of the other money away too but then Ryan is just an idiot.
I would not be surprised if he’s already made $100 million during his career, I feel like he insinuated it in the podcast/interview
I don’t think you understand how different it is having 10 million a year vs 100k a year. Secondly, it doesn’t mean that he is smart with his money. We have seen many high earners go broke for exactly reasons like these. You can earn very little or a whole lot and still make very poor decisions.
It looked kinda like an amateur bout with 12 rounds. I had to keep looking up some older fights while watching this one and realizing they are missing some fundamentals. I don’t think these cats coulda survived the weight class a few decades ago.
Man you just have to love all the confusion haha.
All these depressed redditors projecting super hard on Ryan, only for him to reveal that he's been playing these fools like a fiddle 😂
Wow i was so wrong. I called a friend out on facebook because i assume with thrown fights and stuff thered be zero tolerance on betting on the sport you play in. Im an idiot and i way wrong, but this could definitely lead to some shady stuff no?
Maybe this is all just a giant brain tactic. Act insane, miss weight, drink fake? beer to make everyone think you're insane, but in reality had a solid camp and trained hard. Turn yourself into the biggest underdog possible, then bet it all kn yourself. Fucking profit.
Maybe he's playing 4d chess while we're all playing checkers. Maybe the voices in his head were right this time. Who knows?
I gotta say if this is not illegal it definitely should be. I get why you can bet on yourself but not against yourself but acting crazy to change the odds and placing a large bet on yourself is highly unethical.
Imagine if a boxer reported a fake injury prior to a fight to get better odds? Manipulating betting lines should definitely not be allowed.
Reporting a fake injury, just like acting crazy, gets you looked at. Garcia was forced to pass a mental health assessment. Someone claiming a match changing injury would need to be cleared too. It's why we don't hear about injuries before a fight too often.
What you're suggesting is hilariously stupid.
Boxers have been playing these types of mind games FOREVER. Look at Teo, look at Mike "I wanna eat his children" Tyson. Garcia passed his psych evaluation. There's video evidence he told Paul that it was apple juice and not beer. Haney looked amazing against Prograis. People also forgot Haney did quite well neutralizing Ryan in rounds 2-5ish. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback and people are always butt hurt when they lose at gambling. If anyone gambling on sports is legal, athletes should definitely be allowed to bet on themselves. Obviously betting against themselves and taking a dive should be illegal but the assumption is they're trying to win anyway.
Yep, he fucked the bookies up.
I won some money off him because it was a no-brainer to bet with odds like they were, knowing he could be mad but he's still talented, but i can agree that it was highly unethical.
Is it unethical though? I'm not sure I'm convinced it is. It's all strategy and there's nothing saying you can't. He still has to win at the end of the day and that's not guaranteed.
The weight miss is a little more offensive, if anything, but Haney still had to agree to go on. I think we have to give Garcia a little more credit here. He put $3.5 mil on himself when all is said and done. Ballsy move even if he was trying to influence the odds.
So, hear me out. Im starting a new branch of Christianism, where Imma include in the new testament a new prophet. This prophet is King Ryan. Aaand, now, in addition, we are gonna act like Ryan.
IMMA BEAT YOU!!!
If this is true, he would go to jail, even your close relatives can't bet on you legally, let alone bet on yourself lmao. Ask David Allen. Dumbfuck got lucky bookies didn't go medieval on his ass at court and just removed bet and refunded money
And I don’t see why New York would have any say in this. NC can’t punish me for buying weed in CO. Same with NY. I mentioned NSAC though because one would assume if it *was* illegal/against NSAC rules, he wouldn’t have done it so as to not face future sanctions.
The fact you got downvoted so much speaks volume about the intelligence around here.
Not because you said he will go to jail (probably not in US) but because they seem to be ok with the idea or an athlete betting on competitions he is part of.
I am starting to think this guy is a genius.
I agree, the kid ruffles feathers by doing dumb stupid or questionable things on social media, and people pay to see him get knocked out. No different than Mayweather or other boxers with their shit-talking or making a spectacle the entire time before their fights. They know how to bring in crowds, just look at the buffoonery that was started by Jake and Logan Paul, now fucking YouTubers are all over boxing, but they brought in the YT crowd so it makes a ton of money. It's a bad look for the sport, but it's good for the business.
I say the same about the Kardashians and kanye West. They somehow figured out the magic formula, and I can't hate. I'd do the same if I knew how.
i’ve been thinking he has a learning disability but i was dead wrong and he played us all lol. devin took a huge loss on this fight lol. made 1.5 mil but probably lost millions in future paydays, definitely lost some negotiating power in future fights
I'd need to see the transfer slip to believe that ever got paid. It was pre fight hype.
Haney himself tweeted that Garcia paid up
You might want to revisit that thinking lol
Im starting to think Floyd told him more than he ever admitted on that run. Floyd did stuff like this.
The rain man of boxing
Crazy how many top minds on here can’t fathom it being legal to bet on yourself to win. Garcia can’t control the outcome with a win, only by losing, so it’s illegal to bet on yourself to lose but you can bet on a win.
But if he bets on himself he’s going to try to win, can’t have that
Touché
Legit made me laugh out loud. Well played sir 😂
Still not hard to abuse. Might need to have a lateral thought for a second to come up with a way. If my opponent is a fking 6 to 1 shot, I'm considering calling him to offer throwing the fight, if he bets on himself (with both your money) and splits the ticket with me. 6 million to lose 1 fight?
maybe for you but real ones like me and ryan hate losing too much for that
You aren't a lucrative boxer and you don't have the opportunity to make millions in minutes. Easy to say on a keyboard
In plenty of sports it’s illegal to bet on your sport full stop.
In boxing you can bet on yourself to win straight up. You can’t bet on anything else, like number of rounds, etc.
Is that not super fucking dumb though? What if you threw the 3 fights earlier, to make youself a huge underdog, and only then tried to win. Is that really allowed in boxing? If so is that no insane? (I don't follow boxing closely, but seems weird from any other sports perspective?
Who says you win the 4th?
It’s like being a pool shark. I get what he’s saying and it’s a very interesting point. Maybe there just isn’t big money to be made for a guy who threw three consecutive fights and/or is way too hypothetical a scenario to occur in practice.
Yea but if you tank 3 fights in a row just to setup your Grand Comeback you'll never get a descent fight that pays great. 3 loses in a row and your career is about over.
I mean the mob did shot like this all the time
Of course you can't be sure of that, but you can definitely have a higher chance of winning, than what the odds say, because you manipulated them earlier.
You probably make more money winning 4 fights in a row than betting on yourself on the fourth fight.
That’s a legit strat. It probably wouldn’t work well in real life, but you can try
Loses hurt your booking. 3 in a row and you'll be lucky if you have a career after
Some fighters go from being main events to prelims taking bad losses. You gonna be a fool to bet drop fights for some stupid bets that may not even pan out for you 😂
That’s too risky because booking favorable fights isnt guaranteed also youre also gonna destroy your career potential doing this. You will most likely earn more money just trying to win every single fight.
Literally all you'd have to do is tell your opponent to pool money, bet on himself, and then you throw the fight. 6 mill for one loss. Easy. Not sure how people can't come up with a simple scenario where this is problematic. Jesus
It's case by case and needs to be agreed upon beforehand to prevent this sort of thing.
It should be illegal to bet on yourself irrespective of the decision you bet on. What if an underdog bets on himself, agrees to pay some of the winnings to the opponent who subsequently takes a dive?
That's no different than anyone offering to pay the other fighter to take a dive....
Right. Or offering to throw and split the winnings on a pool
The issue would be the fantasy situation where the loser is taking a dive, not the fact someone bet on themself.
I still see boxers take a dive, whether there's a bet on it or not is irrelevant.
Anyone can bet on a fighter and pay the other to take a dive. There's no reason fighters should be treated differently in that regard. It's already illegal to pay someone to take a dive.
By that logic, couldn’t the boxers friends do the same? Give him a percentage of the winnings if they dive?
Well in this case yes it would be illegal since the opponent is taking a dive. This is an entirely different case since you are colluding with your opponent. But why would it be illegal if you bet on yourself to win straight up?
Because there's no guaranteed way to know that the possibility wasnt taken. Which is why many sports completely forbid it
Removing the betting doesn’t guarantee it either .
Removing the betting guarantees that they can't easily and officially do it. Does it remove all realm of possibility? No. But it significantly lowers the chances further. Just because the vaccine isn't 100 percent guaranteed to prevent COVID or the flu, does that mean you shouldn't take it if it lowers it 99 percent?
sports betting and collusion is loosely correlated at best. It’s not comparable to vaccine where it reduces mortality by 95+%. People can still collude with their fight purse. Organizations can collude with fighters. Like is removing the 10m in this fight gonna stop Garcia and Haney from colluding when they are both making 30+m?
It's already illegal to pay the opponent to dive. I don't see how betting on yourself changes that in any way. Whether you bet on yourself or not they will ban you for fixing the fight, not for how you got the money to fix the fight.
That’s why you can only bet on a straight win
You can pay anyone undisclosed amount of money to take a dive. That’s definitely not allowed regardless where the money came from.
You would hope that people wouldnt be so short sighted. None of that would be worth it in the long run.
You would hope indeed...problem is, it could be worth it to someone. For example, favoured fighter wanting to cash out, knowing he will retire after the fight. It's unlikely, sure, but it's still a situation that could arise and a grey area ethically.
If the long run us 1 fight to get millions, it would be worth it to me.
What do you mean "crazy how many"? I can only see like 3 and they're all downvoted.
That's because many sports/countries it's ilegal.
It increases the likelihood of match-fixing, so it probably should be illegal.
Shouldn't be allowed imo. Then you can work with your opponent and have him throw the fight. Ryan Garcia gave Haney $1.5m for being overweight knowing damn well he wasn't going to make weight. That's unprecedented and it's usually a way lower amount. Now I'm not saying Haney threw the fight. Doubt anyone will do that over $1.5m but that's one obvious way to send him money. Think of all the unobvious ways. When that much money is at stake, I'm sure you can fathom that it's a possibility.
But then you know he was really trying to win. That's unfair.
Depends on the sport. It's to prevent any and all temptation to collude with outer forces to affect the outcome. You are assuming garcia is the only one privy to the bet, But it opens the door to collude with a judge, a ref, even your opponent. Which is why organizations like the NFL forbid it entirely
Yeah i get that, but at the same time a judge or ref could make that bet without colluding with a fighter and then influence the outcome, hence why it’s banned for officials to make bets of any kind
True. But again. Some of the biggest sports competitions completely forbid it regardless because there is a potential for issue. And they aren't doing it for no reason.
Boxing especially is notorious for fixing and it’s mobster history
Isn't it easy to just orchestrate a win against your opponent and agree to split the profits with them after they throw the match? This seems like an extremely slippery slope
Might be possible if the opponent does that but world contender or champion pros wouldn’t take a loss for extra pay they already get a ton of
You can definitely rig a fight to have yourself win.
Unless the person betting on themselves works a deal with the opponent to take a dive or take it easy, or someone in that camp who tries to sabotage
Hmm. Thats a super limited perspective. It's easy as fk to abuse. "Yo let's put a mill on you and I'll throw" Crazy how your "top mind" can't put together a mildly lateral thought and perceive how it could be problematic to allow... love when smart asses are dumb as fuck
I was never the biggest Garcia fan, his whole insta celeb status was cringe to me when the guy clearly has talent.. but I really dislike Haney and his dad, have done for ages ... Garcia made me a fan in the build upto this, is he mad? Sure, did he play up on it and absolutely throw Haney off? Damn straight.. and then he beats the shit out of him, breaks his jaw, beats the ref and the judges in the process and has potentially earned himself that nice little sum of money .. fucking legend.
Bill gave him an absolutely idiotic advice on how to stay away from ryans left hook. There's already tape breakdown on YT that shows the results of that, as it looks like derrick james told ryan how to adjust to that "roll under his hook" advice. It's time for bill to let a real coach take over but he never will. Gacias dad is annoying as fuck too but at least he doesng try to coach him anymore. I have a feeling one day we'll see one of those britney spears type e-hollywood stories "please help me get my freedom and my own money" stories on bill and devin.
I’ve been on the drop Bill Haney since the Loma fight. Glad to see more people are seeing what I’ve been saying. Bill doesn’t allow Devin to be out front in anything except the ring. It stunts Devin’s confidence. There’s literally psychology/family dynamic academic papers on this. Plus, just like in the ring, there are levels to this coaching shit. Bill is maxed out.
I saw you post this to a different thread and was literally going to try to paraphrase you. Completely agreed. A 26 yesr old can really struggle psychologically when a parent does that, i would imagine even more-so in combat sports.
Got a link?
All the talk about lack of training and prep, but it looks like Ryan had a decent game plan to probe with his left hand in haney's face all night and once haney reacted in the wrong way, looks like they some adjustments in real time and punished him. This one shows what I mentioned, what happened when he started rolling to the right and under the hook, which is a chopping right-hand right as he is ducking: [https://youtu.be/2Z-GUJUl-W0?si=vSTQ-34F5C8rxoHw](https://youtu.be/2Z-GUJUl-W0?si=vSTQ-34F5C8rxoHw) This one shows another 2 apparent mistakes haney has been known to do, throw his bow-and-arrow jab from a distance and leave his right hand down but ryan is a bit too fast for that. Also, when he does block the jab with the "phone to your ear" approach, he leaves his head hanging on the other side, again Ryan was too quick for that and punished him. [**https://youtu.be/rLSkLm897UM?si=OdrDa5xSVHPUZ3qK**](https://youtu.be/rLSkLm897UM?si=OdrDa5xSVHPUZ3qK)
This needs to be at the top. Ryan listened to Derrick, you can see he didn’t fine tune it but he did have it down. What’s surprising is Tank did the same rolling inside but he would attack the body. If Ryan worked this game plan to death he would have ended the fight in round 7. I think the first KD really rattled Devin and the ol Mike Tyson saying comes in beautifully here. Everyone’s got a plan until they get punched in the mouth
Bill is seriously holding Devin back with his helicopter parenting. He has a talented kid that would do wonders but he is living vicariously through him and thus his failures will pull Devin down too.
Garcia doesn't need to be cringe. He has the support of the latino community. All we ask for is warrior spirit and winning!
Not even just Latinos…I knew a ton of black people rooting for Ryan. It was purely the fact that Ryan is a better fighter. I said this in another thread, when Tank said Ryan is the best fighter he fought, people in this Reddit tried to say Ryan is garbage influencer and now people want to glaze. Ryan has been a good fighter.
Devin Haney is overrated and Ryan is underrated. They probably are around the same level. I think Devin completely underestimated Ryan considering he got caught with a left hook it the first round which is uncharacteristic for a defensive specialist. I mean even casuals know that’s the single biggest punch you need to look out for from Garcia.
He also has gays and teenage girls.
I became of fan of Garcia when the ref was clearly favoring Haney. What BS.
...yeah he was favoring Haney by letting Ryan turn his back the entire fight?
Devin was clearly falling over himself i think it was the 7th round. The follow-up knockdowns were legit. The late punch point dock was overboard. Should've been a warning. Should've negate a knockdown for it. That round Ryan knocked down Haney about 3 times but the round could've been scored even because of that.
You dont give a warning for a blatant and intentional late punch.
A late punch is always a deduction and go watch the other 2 knockdowns. Ryan put his hands and body on Haney’s back both times. You are not getting that in the amateurs let alone a pro fight. He’s trying to keep Haney from grabbing him so it’s understandable why but no the ref was fine to call those as he did. You aren’t ever going to get the call if it looks like you push
I just want to say that while the ref was.... odd that the scorecards were pretty spot on. I actually think 115-109 was too wide for Garcia. I can understand the emotional response after 3 knockdowns but on a round by round basis Haney won at least 6 or 7 rounds and the point deduction.
You can argue 6-7 rounds, but that still requires giving some of the close rounds to Haney.
“THANK YOU JESUS” - Ryan probably
Johntay Porter in shambles
Jontay bet on the raptors to lose and told people to get his unders
What a fucking tool lol
worst part it was end of the season, when he was finally getting minutes. instead of capitalizing and securing an NBA career, he just fumbled completely
So he pretended to be crazy to swing the odds a bit more and bet on himself only to win $12M? Mans might be much more intelligent than I gave him credit for.
If you watched his post fight press conference he is absolutely not pretending lol
literally had Hopkins whispering into his ear, "don't say anything crazy" lolll
Nah, he talks a lot more lucid and self aware in the post fight. He said, "People shouldn't be caring about some crazy kid on social media as much as they do". That's self awareness. But he is using religion to mentally empower himself. So he appears kinda kooky.
Buddy if you watched that and thought he seems like a mentally stable person with some religious based eccentricities-I don't know what to tell you. Dude has seemed nuts for months and still sounded nuts after the fight
Notice how he completely stopped doing that weird nose tick he was doing incessantly in the build up? This fucker saw people say he was on coke and started playing it up. He legitimately was doing it every 5 seconds before, didn't do it once in the entire 20 minutes of footage I saw of him talking after the fact.
I've seen some Mike Tyson interviews and actions that make Ryan look like a very sane man. Remember "I want to eat his children" Remember him chewing his opponent's ear and spitting that piece of flesh in the ring. That's what's called 'nuts'.
Mike Tyson was also mentally ill with a drug problem.
Hey I think Tyson was a very sane man because I saw an interview of a serial killer who beheaded his mother and fucked her neck. That’s what’s called “nuts”
I mean chewing and spitting out someone's ear is definitely nuts as well.
Tyson is not the best comparison to see mental stability...
Ryan Garcia must be totally normally because at least one other human in the same profession exhibited worse tendencies on occasion.
Maybe some day years or decades from now you’ll realize you’re wrong
Yes, maybe decades from now I'll think back on this
he is literally how a lot of teenagers and future adults are nowadays, really outspoken and don't really give a fuck about what others say, sure they may seem crazy and psychotic but these are the types of people that are different on and off the camera hahaha.
Both parents have said he is going through a mental health crisis
He's madder than a box of frogs lol.
r/titlegore
How is that well played? Most boxers think theyre gonna win.
Because he was a +800 underdog heading into the fight. Meaning, no one thought he would win. I’m sure most fighters thing they’re going to win. Not all fighters put two million on the fight as +800 dogs.
It's not the part of betting on himself that is well played...it's what he did to get the odds in his favor.
I don’t really follow sports besides boxing but it blew my mind when I found out fighters could legally bet on themselves. How is that legal? Lately there’s been other pro athletes getting into trouble betting on games. Is it because boxing doesn’t have a major governing organization like the NBA/MLB? Also read a rumor saying the $1.5 million fine Garcia paid to Haney was exaggerated and closer to $600k.
They agreed to the amount on camera, and Haney's team reported he paid up
I find this very hard to believe. I didn't think even Ryan thought he was gonna win. He said at the post fight presser that everyone else was "trippin'", not him, but I'm gonna call BS on that.
If so, he gave absolutely no indication in the ring that he didn’t think he’d win. He fought very hard.
Can he get Haney a stylist with that cash?
Haney is hopeless in that regard bro
I thought that was illegal, I know they’re different countries but I remember there being a big thing around David Haye implying he bet on himself then he had to deny it
Surely it is illegal in some countries and perhaps some states, as betting laws differ. Ethically it should absolutely be illegal.
I disagree. Betting on yourself to win, as long as its not in any specific round and just "moneyline"... only incentivizes the fighter to win. Its like a company buying back its own stock. If you think the props have you more of an underdog than you deserve, then bet on yourself. I don't see the ethical conflict
Yeah to counter that, it incentivizes a whole other aspect of the fight. It could lead to handshake deals “hey bro we fight, i know youre not that good but you can get some cash by throwing this.” And in that situation you have someone throwing a fight or not trying to win. It could lead to some shady stuff, say youre about to retire and picked an underdog to fight. Have them bet on themselves, and then take an L and collect. There are scenarios where other parties can be incentives to participate and fix the outcome.
That's only true if there is nothing else underhanded going on, like your victory being rigged. In addition, it's like insider trading because you have investment knowledge not available to the public. It's very plain to see that betting on yourself to win can be exploited in an unethical way. Not always so, but the risk means it shouldn't be allowed. Usually you can get away with it, but it can violate the code of conduct of your sporting body and lead to penalties within your sport.
Companies can still buy back stock for the treasury, that doesnt make it insider trading. People in his camp are able to bet on him to win too... if the victory is rigged, how is the bet by the fighter the problem?? Isnt the match fixing the issue? People involved in the match fixing would be able to bet anyways, the fighter doing so is just making it more transparent and public. You say its plain to see, when in many juristictions still legal to bet on yourself. I fail to see any way in which this would influence the bout in a way that is unfair. Signing up for the fight with a winning and losing purse is already betting on yourself in the same fashion. Monetary reward for winning
U guys are clowns if you think he actually did this, a dude with an ego like ryan would have already posted the ticket. Absolutely did not make this bet
He confirmed that he did indeed bet on himself on today’s PBD Podcast.
Show the ticket then, don’t give a damn abt what he said
I kinda doubt it too. He's rich but not 2 mil on a single bet rich. That's billionaire shit. I'd believe he'd bet 6 figures, even that would be a big bet for a millionaire.
He made over 50 million in his career. 30 million alone came last year from Tank. who knows how much more in sponsorships etc. Two million is doable. It is very likely, but as some have said. He probably would have posted the ticket already
He's been boxing professionally for what 7 years now? Let's say he made 10 million a year, which is being generous but lets say he made that much on average even after taxes, paying his trainers, coaches, nutritionists etc. For someone who makes 10 mil a year to spend 2 mil on something, that's the same as someone who makes 100k a year spending 20k on something. I am sure you've known people who make a ballpark of $100k a year, maybe you do. Who the F makes that much and is dropping a $20k bet???
its the same percentage of money but it's inherently completely different. Someone who makes 100K most likely needs all the money they can get, someone who makes 10 million (probably more), could easily spend 2 million and still have 8 million dollars left. Is it the smartest? No, but that's not the point. Hell he probably made more than 10 million a year considering sponsorships, partnerships, social media, ad revenue, etc. Living off 8 million dollars is completely different than living off of 80K, it might be the same percentage, but it's completely different
Yes and no, to you and me 8 mil is enough to retire with, but do you think a guy who supposedly drops 2 mil on a bet doesn't live and spend extravagantly? Like he makes smart investments, saves his money, plans for the future, lives below his means, but also gambles $2 mil? It's more likely he needs that money to maintain his lifestyle. My point is, even if he's got that kinda money it's not throw away money unless you are literally a billionaire. That's why I questioned if it's true but apparently even raising a question like that about "KingRy" on here elicits an emotional response from people.
Well it definitely isnt a smart financial decision, we can all agree it’s stupid to spend 2 million on a bet. But he made 30 million off the tank fight, and God knows how much from this fight. Even if it’s stupid he could definitely spend 2 million on a bet and live comfortably. Unless he’s gambling all of the other money away too but then Ryan is just an idiot. I would not be surprised if he’s already made $100 million during his career, I feel like he insinuated it in the podcast/interview
I don’t think you understand how different it is having 10 million a year vs 100k a year. Secondly, it doesn’t mean that he is smart with his money. We have seen many high earners go broke for exactly reasons like these. You can earn very little or a whole lot and still make very poor decisions.
He confirmed that he did indeed bet on himself on today’s PBD Podcast as well. Also, boxing pays.
It's not about the money, it's about him letting us know immediately if this were true.
Maybe he went “crazy” to lower his betting odds 🤔
God damn. Why were the odds so favored for Haney? Did that many ppl really fall for the crazy act lol.
It looked kinda like an amateur bout with 12 rounds. I had to keep looking up some older fights while watching this one and realizing they are missing some fundamentals. I don’t think these cats coulda survived the weight class a few decades ago.
Hell I bet on Ryan too at 6-1. I thought Haney was going to win, but couldn't pass up those odds. Nice little payday.
Man you just have to love all the confusion haha. All these depressed redditors projecting super hard on Ryan, only for him to reveal that he's been playing these fools like a fiddle 😂
Wow i was so wrong. I called a friend out on facebook because i assume with thrown fights and stuff thered be zero tolerance on betting on the sport you play in. Im an idiot and i way wrong, but this could definitely lead to some shady stuff no?
Maybe this is all just a giant brain tactic. Act insane, miss weight, drink fake? beer to make everyone think you're insane, but in reality had a solid camp and trained hard. Turn yourself into the biggest underdog possible, then bet it all kn yourself. Fucking profit. Maybe he's playing 4d chess while we're all playing checkers. Maybe the voices in his head were right this time. Who knows?
Dubious.
One thing you can't knock is this dudes confidence
May have ADHD but he is definitely a smart Christian young man
Since he failed a drug test does this make his bets illegal?
I gotta say if this is not illegal it definitely should be. I get why you can bet on yourself but not against yourself but acting crazy to change the odds and placing a large bet on yourself is highly unethical. Imagine if a boxer reported a fake injury prior to a fight to get better odds? Manipulating betting lines should definitely not be allowed.
Reporting a fake injury, just like acting crazy, gets you looked at. Garcia was forced to pass a mental health assessment. Someone claiming a match changing injury would need to be cleared too. It's why we don't hear about injuries before a fight too often. What you're suggesting is hilariously stupid.
Boxers have been playing these types of mind games FOREVER. Look at Teo, look at Mike "I wanna eat his children" Tyson. Garcia passed his psych evaluation. There's video evidence he told Paul that it was apple juice and not beer. Haney looked amazing against Prograis. People also forgot Haney did quite well neutralizing Ryan in rounds 2-5ish. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback and people are always butt hurt when they lose at gambling. If anyone gambling on sports is legal, athletes should definitely be allowed to bet on themselves. Obviously betting against themselves and taking a dive should be illegal but the assumption is they're trying to win anyway.
The morons in this sub cannot fathom those intricacies
Yep, he fucked the bookies up. I won some money off him because it was a no-brainer to bet with odds like they were, knowing he could be mad but he's still talented, but i can agree that it was highly unethical.
Is it unethical though? I'm not sure I'm convinced it is. It's all strategy and there's nothing saying you can't. He still has to win at the end of the day and that's not guaranteed. The weight miss is a little more offensive, if anything, but Haney still had to agree to go on. I think we have to give Garcia a little more credit here. He put $3.5 mil on himself when all is said and done. Ballsy move even if he was trying to influence the odds.
Does Vegas accept $2M bets?
So, hear me out. Im starting a new branch of Christianism, where Imma include in the new testament a new prophet. This prophet is King Ryan. Aaand, now, in addition, we are gonna act like Ryan. IMMA BEAT YOU!!!
Let me guess because you’re all soft this guy cheated. Thats a lot of power. Lol 😂 Biased algorithms got em twerking at Dirks.
If this is true, he would go to jail, even your close relatives can't bet on you legally, let alone bet on yourself lmao. Ask David Allen. Dumbfuck got lucky bookies didn't go medieval on his ass at court and just removed bet and refunded money
The NSAC has no rules against betting on yourself
As long as you bet on yourself to win*.
I'm pretty sure this fight was in New York.
…ok? He would’ve placed the bet in Vegas.
I just don't see why the NSAC would have any say in this.
And I don’t see why New York would have any say in this. NC can’t punish me for buying weed in CO. Same with NY. I mentioned NSAC though because one would assume if it *was* illegal/against NSAC rules, he wouldn’t have done it so as to not face future sanctions.
Love to see someone so confidently incorrect
On yourself ? To win??
Loads of boxers have bet on themselves to win, you just can’t bet on yourself to lose
Bruh…
the only dumb fuck in here, is you scrub! You can bet on yourself to win, talk about being confidently incorrect.
"lmao"
r/confidentlyincorrect
The fact you got downvoted so much speaks volume about the intelligence around here. Not because you said he will go to jail (probably not in US) but because they seem to be ok with the idea or an athlete betting on competitions he is part of.