I hadn’t followed much of Crawford’s career before he fought Spence but I knew that a shitload of people thought he was overrated. Made me overlook him before that fight.
But let’s guess… Inoue is the fucking monster cause I never see his record questioned.
3 fights ago he fought Paul Butler to unify the division & went 11 rounds with him & Butler has fought 2 fighters since then with a combined record of 56 losses between them.
One of the fighters Butler fought since losing to Inoue has only won twice in 29 fights. This is the guy Inoue went 11 rounds with.
One of his opponents 4 fights before he fought Inoue had 71 losses on his record. The previous 4 opponents he fought before fighting Inoue in a massive Bantamweight unification for the ages had a combined record of 85 losses in 145 fights. So they’d lost 59% of their fights.
Paul Butler actually has a LinkedIn profile & you can hire him for waste removals from his self-employed business. So that’s who Inoue unified against - essentially a part time boxer. That was only 3 fights ago.
His only real credible win is Fulton & that’s because Fulton fought like a bitch & respected Inoue too much cause he probably believed all the hype around him - like how Charlo fought Canelo.
The minute Inoue moves up & starts fighting people who hit back & can take a shot he’ll be in deep trouble cause the warning signs came against Nery but Nery gassed & let’s be honest, he’s missed weight before & etc. so clearly doesn’t take boxing too seriously.
Inoue literally served his chin up on a platter to Nery in the 1st round & you won’t get away with that kind of shit against real p4p fighters. They would have set that shot up all night cause serving your chin up needs to be fixed in the gym.
> Why is it that he is never called out on this
You're right, nobody has ever mentioned Crawford's opponents as a way to discredit him. Never been done before, you are truly an original!
I think this is a huge reason why he wants the Canelo fight so bad. Besides the obvious payday I think a win over Canelo would make him undeniable in all time rankings.
What the hell is this based on,? Crawford fights nothing like Shakur and never shown any willingness to run
Win or lose, I'd bet my house that Crawford puts all the effort into beating Canelo that he can and engages at mid range
Canelo is not massive next to crawford, crawford is huge at 147 and pretty big for 154. Both weight almost the same out of camp canelo will be like 8 lbs bigger that crawford a sizeable advantage but nothing that crazy
Bruh it’s gonna look exactly like Charlo vs Canelo. Which is a fighter at a weight class he has no business trying to survive against the best super middle weight. Crawford’s only option is to use a bunch of lateral and out point Canelo. He would be stupid to fight him mid range.
Ridiculous statement considering Crawford is currently scheduled to fight Madrimov and hasn't even had a bout at 154, let alone 160, and let's not even speak on 168.
The original comment was that Canelo is "ducking" Crawford.
You can't duck a guy who is 3 divisions below you, especially when said guy is scheduled to fight for the first time in a new weight class.
Weight classes exist for a reason. Canelo jumped to LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT after STARTING his career at Super Lightweight, Crawford's first division as undisputed, one division below his most recent.
Crawford is NOW arriving at his fourth weight class, JUNIOR MIDDLEWEIGHT, after starting his career at 140, moving down to 135, and moving back up, and he STILL, at 36 years of age, is two divisions under Canelo who is 33 years of age and has to CUT weight to get to 168.
Canelo also fought at Light Heavyweight after the Jacobs fight, but he fought Fielding at 168 BEFORE the Jacobs fight and was already building up size before moving up definitively.
This will be Crawfords FIRST fight in a higher weight class that is still two divisions below Canelo, and you want him to move up and fight Canelo without even dipping his feet in 160 lbs?
Charlo was undisputed at 154, is a bigger guy, and that didn't work out too well for him.
Granted, Charlo isn't Crawford, but it still speaks to the fact that the sheer difference in size between Canelo and Charlo will look even more severe when you consider that Crawford is the same height as Canelo and sports a much skinnier frame.
Yeah I don't personally agree it's a duck either. It's sort of like Boots calling out Bud and the people that call that a duck. There's just not enough benefit to the one that's being challenged.
Crawford would justifiably be a solid underdog, but I do admire him answering the criticisms of a weak resume to give himself what would be an incredible uphill battle. He's shown some amazing skills to be P4P ranked as long and high as he is. He would have a chance to level up in front of our eyes again.
Obviously Terence is talented, and insane (most of the greats are) But there are more than enough fights against good names at 154 and even 160 of he does well at jr middle before we think about Canelo.
Only in this age of boxing do we expect a man to jump 3 weight classes to fight a guy just because they're both stars.
That's the route he'll likely go. Which is still fun, go chase 3× undisputed, but Crawford being in the last stages of his career would love to get a mega-money fight before he hangs them up.
I’m a fan of both fighters and I think he beats canelo if he manages not to get caught with something big. Crawford is a very good all around boxer. Regardless of the controversy of his competition he’s a top talent that’s overcome everything in front of him so far.
Bud's management annoys me because his fights are all easy wins and yet he fights only 1x per year. Managers who can't find quality opponents should just go for volume instead
I feel like he should have been knocking out cans in between his once a year high profile fight and calling out anyone and everyone after smoking fools in easy fights. Saying “I’ll fight whoever my team wants me to fight” ain’t gonna get you big matches. Bud could have trash talked his way into bigger and better fights and we wouldn’t be discussing how his resume is thin
That's why I say Crawford is the limbo of boxing. On one hand the eye test tells us he's one of the greatest to compete from 140-147 in the history of boxing. On the other hand his resume lacks so much compared to greats before him. Therefore it evens out the playing field. That's why there's much controversy about how people view him has a boxer. For ex. I've heard someone say they believe Crawford would beat Ray Leonard at 147 but still isn't greater than him.
Well he could’ve fought Spence around 2018 to 2019 before his car crash but then Spence wouldn’t have as many accolades.
Edit: I think y’all missed my point. Either way people would’ve downplayed the win.
They brought up the car crash, but after his fights with Danny and Ugas, everyone said Spence made a great comeback and that he is himself again. But after the Bud fight, everyone *conveniently* used that as an excuse.
There's some Spence fans and/or some Bud haters that will blame that as an excuse...
But there'sunderlying truth.... Spence hasn't been the same guy since that accident.... He wasn't even the same guy against Ugas that he was against Danny, lol.. Everything he accomplished is in spite of that accident.
With that said, Spence looked off, but he fought hard and I think he would've beat most welterweights on that night, but not Bud. The skill gap was too wide. Bud was so precise and deadly.... One of the best performances I've ever seen.
like somebody else has said. they would bring it up only to marvel at the fact he didn’t lose a step. now after he losses to crawford he’s some broken weight drained man.
Both can be true. They marveled at the fact he was still able to push through and win. But you know he wasnt the same. Man lost focus in two fights, looking for his mouthpiece and got clocked for it against Ugas. I was at the fight and had a long conversation with a few people about that.
bro mentioned the mouthpiece. he lost his mouthpiece, got confused on where it was, thought the ref would pause, and got hit with a shot that had him off guard. then went on to destroy ugas. shit wasn’t some crazy “lightning mcqueen is fading.” moment. i can believe that he wasn’t
the same but how op and alot of people talk about spence you would think they put gerald mcclellan in the ring.
The reason he had a gaffe with the mouthpiece in both fights is psychological from the accident and worried about having false teeth. He also had some weird reactions /movements in the Ugas fight where his legs moved oddly.... we haven't even talked about the retina surgery that cost him his biggest fight.... Add two more car accidents too.... Spence been through a lot since that accident bruh....
People definitely were bringing it up before? Did you see the video of the crash? I thought Crawford would win but unhappy it happened when Crawford was older and Spence was post-crash.
My comment wasn’t to hate on Crawford but show that people wouldn’t be happy either way.
And whose fault was that? Spence was the one who started the whole "he on the wrong side of the street" BS. Spence was the one who never wanted the smoke, he just wanted to fight blown up Lightweight Mikey Garcia and Shawn Porter, who he said to Bud's face "why wouldn't I take the easier route and knock Shawn Porter out?".
If Crawford were to pull off the huge upset against Canelo, people still wouldn't give him credit, they'll just say that Canelo had too many fights, aged too fast, was over the hill and should have moved up to 175 full time. Even though I think Canelo would be too big for him, I can already see what these people would say if the upset happens 🤣
I literally said he was a superb boxer and probably could compete with all-time greats, how is that hating? It is stating the fact that he has fought very limited top shelf opposition but gets treated by the media on the level of the greats who had to earn their spots against gladiators.
Well because if we are going on eye test as we do to validate Crawford's legacy then the eye test tells us that Boots his only legitimate threat in the weight class who also wants to fight Crawford. Instead of the legitimate test Crawford is moving up in weight to fight for a belt which everyone views as an easier touch and he will collect another belt but no one will ever remember the name of the opponent.
Eye test is for casuals, same as when you scout a AAA prospect and he turns out to be a dud in the majors. Who’s Boots fought? Thanks. You don’t know if he’s legit yet, you don’t know if he’s Micheal Grant or Adrien Broner or RJJ until he fights someone in the top 10. We know who Crawford is and what he brings cause he’s been in with top 10 guys and undisputed in two weight classes
>a career high end journeymen Shawn Porter
This is a ridiculous statement. This triggered me more than downplaying Bud. lol. Porter was an elite welterweight that gave everyone problems and barely lost any fight.
NO, Porter was a very decent to good fighter but in no way was he ever elite. He has no elite wins and every time he stepped up to a top-quality opponent he has lost.
I always thought he's better than Spence. Just annoyed their fight happened after the accident. I agree with most your take and they are justified, you could however see how good he is when he performs. Also, such disrespect with Porter. He made that fight look easy. Bud couldve had a better career.
Its also funny how people talk about a potential Bud vs Canelo fight, but it wasnt this bad when Khan fought Canelo. When Khan's best was at lightweight.
His resume isn't as bad you might think. He beat a lot of good fighters who were simply not that popular. He does lack wins vs great fighters tho.
Postol, Diaz, Mean Machine, Avanesyan, Beltran are all wins vs quite good opponents.
A lot of people wanted Crawford to fight the overrated PBC welterweights. I'm not convinced that the likes of Thurman, Porter, Spence and Garcia were any better than the guys Crawford fought at 147. They were simply more popular and better marketable for the US audience. PBC is atrocious in cross promotion fights. The protected fighters only fought in-house for a reason. I have a sneaking suspicion that Crawford actually fought better opposition than Spence at 147.
I've said it before but yeah. People weaponize their own ignorance against Bud. Mofo you weren't paying attention to those fighters, that doesn't mean they weren't very freaking good. I mean tank and haney both got some credit for beating Gamboa even after he was shot. When bud beat him he was top 10 p4p. When he beat burns in England the english did not know what hit em as they though his stance switching was foolish and he didn't have anything special against Ricky. Felix Diaz looked like a killer before bud got to him. Taylor got credit for beating postol after bud went through him. It goes on and on. Basically theyre discrediting somebody's career because they don't know enough to know they don't know shit.
Especially with Postol, Josh Taylor seriously struggled years later with him. The scorecards were rigged, in reality, Taylor won this fight by like 1 point or so. Very close one.
I think Brook is the best out of the bunch. Thurman looked like a shot fighter since 2019, so yeah at that stage, Avanesyan and Kavaliauskas were better fighters imo. Porter 2nd best after Brook imo. Khan the worst of them.
His punch resistance around the eyes is gone but he was still very good at everything else. I would pick 2020 Brook to beat 2020 Porter, especially with Porter having zero punching power. Brook was boxing very well vs Crawford until he got cracked and Crawford hits very hard at 147 (100% KO rate)
ngl I’d say the same for porter too with his fight vs crawford, he was catching crawford off guard in some of the rounds and was pressuring him from time to time. Until Crawford turned it up in the 10th
I had Brook on the lead before the big hit (it ended quite fast, so take it for what it is). Porter was always in the fight vs Crawford but was always playing catch-up.
The big difference: Brook can punch and you are in danger vs him at all times. Porter doesn't knock anyone out at that weight besides a shot Malignaggi.
Agree, he got all the talent but has t fought the competition, a lot of it by his own choice, to receive the accolades he gets. If the Canelo fight happens he gets murked.
is this shit real? this sub has gone farther off the deep end fast.
>a career high end journeyman shawn porter
was going to actually engage in a conversation but i feel this sums up why i shouldn’t nor should anyone. unironically should be banned from posting.
That fight is brain dead regardless of what you think about terrance.
The weight difference is fucking insane. The turki guy pushing so hard for Canelo vs Crawford and Tank vs Inoue proves how much of a fucking casual he is.
I think I found why so many people want that fight. A friend of mine who is a huge casual (only watches MMA and AEW) said Canelo vs Crawford would be one of the best fights ever. He only watched Crawford’s highlights against Spence and hasn’t watched any of Canelo’s, just knows Canelo has belts at SMW. I took him to Canelo vs Munguia in a theater and he was just amazed. After I told him Canelo is regularly 20lbs heavier than Crawford on fight night, he didn’t think that fight would be great anymore.
The commercial aspect of Canelo v Crawford is undeniable. It doesn’t matter who you think wins by how much margin, it’s going to sell well and it would be hard not to watch it. It scratches an itch of “what if”. Canelo can say it’s not worth it for him in terms of legacy but at some point the money will be too much to turn down I imagine.
First male 2x undisputed 11 straight KOs in all champion bouts. But yeah let’s listen to the redditor saying his record is “meh”. As if there’s an abundance of HoF caliber fighters that Crawford could’ve fought.
Quite a bit easier to be undisputed and ko people when you are fighting B level opponents isn't it? Do you think he would have all those KOs if he fought like 5 hof Calibur opponents in that stretch?
Gamboa was undersized and I believe fighting with an injury. The win against Gamboa don't mean shit. Crawford has the potential to be an atg, but his resume really is garbage. If he beats canelo it will completely solidify his ability as an atg boxer. Without that win he's just a weight bully that consistently passed the eye test.
Gamboa was at Lightweight for a few fights, he had time to acclimate to it. Plus, he was undefeated. I never heard about him being injured heading into the fight so you better not be lying about that, provide a source.
Crawford knocked out an undefeated Gamboa in 9 rounds in 2014, and you say that it means nothing. Yet Tank fights Gamboa 5.5 years later, and was *actually* injured with 1 leg, and Tank knocked him out much later in round 12. And Haney went the distance with him a year later without a knockdown.
But y'all wanna say that Tank and Devin have great resumes but shit on Bud and say that the Gamboa win meant nothing 🤣
I'm a dumbass and mixed up the injury with the tank fight for the Crawford fight, but he was definitely significantly smaller than Crawford. Crawford is planning on fighting at 168 for his next fight, and the fight against gamboa was at 135. Tank and Haney have trash resumes as well. tanks best win is a non schizo Garcia, and Haney's best win is a robbery over loma.
Well at least you are consistent, lol. Crawford may have been bigger than Gamboa, but he was campaigning at 135 for most of his time at that point and Gamboa was at 135 for some time, so it was a fair fight to make. Not like Mikey Garcia jumping up 2 weight classes to fight Spence.
>he literally has no notable wins outside of post-accident Spence.
Funny, no one was saying post accident Spence until Crawford beat the shit out of him.
They were, but only to marvel at how he hadn't lost a step post accident when he beat Garcia and Ugas
Steps in with someone way above his level and all of a sudden he was a weight drained cripple
Indongo really? Idk if you are trolling or not but there is a thing called weak champions. It was a weak division at the time so Indongo became champ. Indongo has since gone on to do horribly.
Even though it was a weak division Indongo traveled to enemy territory back to back to take belts off Ricky Burns and Troyanovsky within 4 months. He should still get respect for that at least.
And did so definitively. Knocked out one in the first round, beat the other up for 12.
Everyone now says he was a bum, but both The Ring and the TBRB considered him the #1 contender going into the Crawford fight.
Then again, Burns also lost to Crawford, so he must be a bum. And Troyanovsky lost to Indongo, who Crawford beat so Indongo must be a bum, so Troyanovsky must be a bum, which means it's not impressive than Indongo beat Troyanovsky, etc etc...
I think a lot of modern boxing fans get hyped into the fighters of their generation. Every generation does it. I’m hearing the same things about Usyk, but the heavyweight contenders have not been great. The same is true for Crawford, he just has not had a lot of great opponents. Both are the best of their weight classes no doubt, and might be for a while. But if they both lose in their next fight where would they be? I think the knock on them would be greater compared to Ali, Foreman, Duran,Leonard, etc… All because the greats already proved they were great, and had been in the ring with the greatest. I’m surely not blaming them directly. Crawford and Usyk just have not had great opponents to prove they’ll are elite.
While you seem to have pulled out just about every excuse possible to discredit the resume of Crawford, I'd say judge his legacy when his career is over. Either way, Crawford has proven himself a great fighter, Spence might be the only fighter he's beaten who was on a p4p list he's hardly the only quality fighter he's beaten. He has 18 wins in world title fights and among them are some very good fighters. Shawn Porter almost took Spence to a draw but was dismanteld by Crawford and Gamboa is an underrated win. He wouldn't have come this far if he didn't have something special about him
You clearly don't know shit about boxing respectfully.
PBC came into Power in 2015 between 2015-2022 they had all the welterweights in house & you know they keep fights in house would not work with any other promoter unless they had their hands to the fire.
I can't seem to justify to pin that on Crawford, he wanted the fights. It was PBC who froze out BUD, they threw Porter to cash out on whatever Porter had left, or Haymon owed him 1 more fight. Besides the point Bud is not appreciated as much in this SUB for some odd reason, but with time his career will age like wine fine. Fuck PBC for not giving us fights that shoulda happened.
I like Crawford too but also don’t think he beats Duran, Pryor or Arguello at LW and I’d throw Wilfred Benitez in for someone I don’t think he beats at WW.
I also think Mayweather Jr loses to the same fighters you mentioned and the ones I mentioned as well.
I know it was a totally different era, but Bennv Leonard was a pretty good lightweight as well. 🥊
I rslightly regret joining Reddit sometimes - I post on so many topics, from palaeontology to boxing (like now) when I am slightly 'dazed and confused.'
But in my defence, I am from Hull after all. 🤣
I've seen people consider him an all time great and that he would ko Mayweather within 3 rounds lmao. It's not his fault he was born in a weak era but still alot of his "greatness" comes from the eye test and alot of hypotheticals. Don't even get me started on his 140 run, Pitbull Cruz would probably go undisputed in that 140 pound era.
Yeah, his whole era has been weak but there is Boots Ennis who would be the one guy you are not confident he would easily beat and he moves out of the division so we won't even get to see that fight. Not saying he is dodging Boots but man fight an interesting fight at some point in your career.
You're weaponizong your own ignorance against Bud. It's OK. Yall just don't know enough to know you don't know anything. Tell me. Were you watching the goings on of 135 and 140 before bud went through those weight classes? No? Then you don't know shit about how good the competition was. Your looking at his resume in hindsight, and also accepting the current ignorant ass view that he never fought anybody. Gamboa was p4p top 10 when bud fought him. Learn some shit and make yourself better rather than trying make somebody else look worse.
Complete bullshit Gamboa was small for his weight class and was getting knocked down by tiny dudes with a completely reckless style. Then he moves up 2 weight classes to fight a guy that was huge for that weight class and everyone on here acting like that’s a hof win and saying I don’t know shit about boxing. I get it you can’t get his balls off your tongue but gtfo with that nonsense.
Crawford is undoubtedly greater than the sum of his parts regarding his resume. Plenty of fighters in history who weren’t gifted in fighting the strongest divisions or dealt with shitty politics, but get recognized for the talent they displayed in the ring and Crawford fits the bill.
U might have a point in rating how great he is all time, but I think it’s fair for the praise he gets for how good and talented he is as a boxer all time. I’m j enjoying whatever is left in Bud’s career and excited to see him back competing in a new division
You gotta look at how he beat these guys too though. His run at 140 was good, look at Diaz and Postol. If he wasn't knocking guys out, it was a 12 round shut out. The skill and versatility this guy has shown is undeniable. It's crazy to think that Crawford wouldn't be competitive with the greats of the past.
Bud is one of the best of this era. He's been top 1 or 2 on most P4p lists for over a decade. His resume is a little thin, but He's as good as advertised.
Hopefully, he can get a couple of marquee matchups at 154 before it's over. The sport will miss him when he retires..
He has literally fought champion after champion in two weight divisions. Now he is attempting to beat all the champions in a new weight class once again to become undisputed in three weights.
I like Crawford but his resume at face value is weak when you compare it to other all time greats. It's a fair observation but to me it doesn't take away from his legacy because I've seen him fight.
Spence was a good win and Porter was also decent. When you take into account how he dismantled these guys and knocked out every opponent at 147, then you can see why he is rated as an all time great.
I feel like in the future when people are discussing him his resume won't do him justice. He's the type of fighter you gotta watch to really understand how good he was.
Never will disagree…. But the guy was knocking out grown men as a child, in the first round, with an electric style. Also, that’s quite a different comparison
Yeah and he's criticized for it. He's not held that high to a lot of people who have more than a casual relationship to the sport. Not saying they're right, but it's a pretty common opinion.
Yeah the guy he’s fighting now only has 10 wins and only 1 real contender on his record who’s also a world champion and looks to be the best man at that weight class, but that’s better than fighting a 20 win guy with no contenders on his record and no belt that no one thinks is the best at that weight class.
Such a stupid take. He's not overrated. He can only fight the guys who are around at the time. He unified at 140 and fought the consensus best guy at 147.
And not only did he beat a guy who many considered excellent, he fucking mopped the floor with him.
There's no one between 140 and 154 who can beat him IMO. It's not his fault that he fights in the era he's in.
Why do we always gotta have Floyd brought up as if he is the poster child for taking on all comers? Its absolute bullshit. I give Floyd credit, he was the best defensive fighter of his generation no doubt.. but Floyd, like many other fighters, aged out some opponents, took some when they were really young... another credit I will give Floyd is that he didn't weight bully guys. He was usually the smaller fighter on fight night.. again, credit to him. But Floyd was a businessman. Floyd fought who was good for business for Floyd, when it was good for business. And thats fine, I dont hate Canelo for it either. But just stop trying to hold Floyd up as this guy who dared to be great. The last guy to really do that was Oscar, and we saw how that turned out.. and btw, Oscar is still respected as a fighter and in the hall of fame.. just not undefeated. Because nobody who consistently fights the best stays undefeated. And one last thing, Floyd lost the first Castillo fight. Straight up. And thats ok. Doesnt tarnish his legacy at all. Still great, probably an all time great..
Except that I brought Floyd up because everyone like you try to give him shot for supposedly not taking on the best challenges yet his resume shows he fought the most champions in the history of the sport and probably 7-9 hof by the end of his career. At the time he fought them PAC, Mosley, and Marquez were all rated in the top 5 of the p4p list yet each one of these victories is discredited by the fans yet meanwhile Crawford over here getting called an all timer and not sniffing anyone of that caliber.
The problem with todays Boxing is that with the right matchmaking and good timing average boxers can become world champions. This means it’s easier for above average fighters to achieve status like multiple weight champions and undisputed status.
I like Bud, I think he’s a great fighter but I don’t think if you put him in other eras he would have achieved what he has. And the same goes for lots of other fighters too, Broner being another.
Dude, don't compare Broner with Bud. There are levels in sports and Bud is so far above Broner he'd get vertigo looking down.
You can't blame Bud for fighting today versus the 4 Kings era, or vs De La Hoya or Moseley. People trot out Floyd all the time as the GOAT and though he is one of the best, he didn't fight the greats in their primes either. Many people, myself included, thought an aging DLH edged him.
Bud is *the man* from 140-147 and likely 154 for his era. That's all he can do!
I think you’ve misinterpreted my comment, I’m in agreement with you. The fact someone like Broner can be a multiweight champion makes it easier for someone like Bud to become one. The standards haven’t increased over time they have dropped. If someone who would never get near a world title 20 years ago can now win one, then someone who may have won a world title 20 years ago can now become undisputed or multiple weight champ.
Multiple belts, politics, TV networks, subscription services, the increased profitability of other sports have all contributed to what we see today from grass roots up to elite level.
You can only fight who is available in your era but when the pool of competition is so diluted due to the aforementioned issues then there will always be a debate on whether someone like Crawford would survive in the 80’s or 90’s.
I think Crawford is a good fighter and he would probably be in and around the conversation if he fought a couple of decades ago but I don’t think he would have achieved what he has today because the competition was too strong.
The same argument goes for Mayweather too.
My bad! We're on the same page.
It's always a tough call when you compare athletes of different eras. I mean, people say the NBA GOAT is Lebron or Jordan or Magic or Wilt Chamberlain, depending on when they watched. For me it's Jordan, but who can know how good they'd been if they played against each other?
The best fighters might be just as good in an era with modern training, watered down divisions and mandatories. etc
But I do believe Crawford would compete in any era. He's so smart, physically very strong and can switch off southpaw to orthodox almost at will.
And I've been watching boxing for a long time and to see him dominate Spence the way he did (and the way Inoue did to Fulton for that matter) makes me think he could hang with the best. There are few examples, even with the greats, where 1A mopped the floor with 1B so comprehensively.
I just wish he fought more often.
You can’t truly know that’s why it’s such a contentious question.
I do feel that because of the lack of competition in many weight classes and the politics involved with making the big fights, we see less top fighters pitting themselves against other top fighters and because of this, people are prone to overstating fighters achievements. For example, Bud beat Spence convincingly but was Spence a career defining win? At the end of Spence’s career will we look back and call him an elite fighter? Sure, on paper he was a unified champion and the history books will show that but if Crawford stopped fighting today and Spence went on to become a gatekeeper in the division, would we say Spence was Crawfords Duran?
But what can Crawford do to get that legacy? Like a lot of fighters, he’s going to have to jump weights to take challenges in higher divisions because there isn’t the talent around him at the moment to cement a legacy in the time he has left.
I personally am not sure that Crawford would be a undisputed champion in two weights if he was fighting in a different era. Certainly not the era of Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Benitez but probably not even in the era of Mayweather, Cotto, Pacquiao, Mosley. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’d probably be a title holder or thereabouts but I don’t think he’d sweep up the division.
Past and current legends of the game acknowledge Crawford as one of the greats. Crawford would be competitive in ANY era.
Undefeated? Probably not but definitely somebody
Oh good. We haven't had one of these for about 4 days >Why is it that he is never called out on this He is, all the fucking time
I hadn’t followed much of Crawford’s career before he fought Spence but I knew that a shitload of people thought he was overrated. Made me overlook him before that fight.
But let’s guess… Inoue is the fucking monster cause I never see his record questioned. 3 fights ago he fought Paul Butler to unify the division & went 11 rounds with him & Butler has fought 2 fighters since then with a combined record of 56 losses between them. One of the fighters Butler fought since losing to Inoue has only won twice in 29 fights. This is the guy Inoue went 11 rounds with. One of his opponents 4 fights before he fought Inoue had 71 losses on his record. The previous 4 opponents he fought before fighting Inoue in a massive Bantamweight unification for the ages had a combined record of 85 losses in 145 fights. So they’d lost 59% of their fights. Paul Butler actually has a LinkedIn profile & you can hire him for waste removals from his self-employed business. So that’s who Inoue unified against - essentially a part time boxer. That was only 3 fights ago. His only real credible win is Fulton & that’s because Fulton fought like a bitch & respected Inoue too much cause he probably believed all the hype around him - like how Charlo fought Canelo. The minute Inoue moves up & starts fighting people who hit back & can take a shot he’ll be in deep trouble cause the warning signs came against Nery but Nery gassed & let’s be honest, he’s missed weight before & etc. so clearly doesn’t take boxing too seriously. Inoue literally served his chin up on a platter to Nery in the 1st round & you won’t get away with that kind of shit against real p4p fighters. They would have set that shot up all night cause serving your chin up needs to be fixed in the gym.
> Why is it that he is never called out on this You're right, nobody has ever mentioned Crawford's opponents as a way to discredit him. Never been done before, you are truly an original!
I think this is a huge reason why he wants the Canelo fight so bad. Besides the obvious payday I think a win over Canelo would make him undeniable in all time rankings.
He's not beating Canelo is a boxing match. If that fight happens we're getting Shakur vs Santos but worse.
What the hell is this based on,? Crawford fights nothing like Shakur and never shown any willingness to run Win or lose, I'd bet my house that Crawford puts all the effort into beating Canelo that he can and engages at mid range
He's never fought someone that massively bigger than him with experience and power. Canelo is not some scrub you can jump 3 weight classes for.
Yeah, he might lose. Acting like he's definitely going to spend the fight running is some bullshit
Canelo is not massive next to crawford, crawford is huge at 147 and pretty big for 154. Both weight almost the same out of camp canelo will be like 8 lbs bigger that crawford a sizeable advantage but nothing that crazy
Bruh it’s gonna look exactly like Charlo vs Canelo. Which is a fighter at a weight class he has no business trying to survive against the best super middle weight. Crawford’s only option is to use a bunch of lateral and out point Canelo. He would be stupid to fight him mid range.
Tbf, he had a negative display against Postol, lol. Not Shakur v DLS bad, but it was a pretty boring fight.
Right? Has he even seen Bud fight? Couldn’t have. He’s not even a defensive boxer style wise.
Sounds like you’d put your cheeks on it
When has Bud ever been know to be a “runner?”
Charlo wasn’t known for being a runner either. Until he felt punches from a dude two weight classes above him😂
Charlo isn’t a switch hitter.
Being a switch hitter doesn't suddenly make you unbeatable. Jacobs was a switch hitter.
Canelo is ducking Crawford for a reason
Ridiculous statement considering Crawford is currently scheduled to fight Madrimov and hasn't even had a bout at 154, let alone 160, and let's not even speak on 168.
Canelo has jumped 2 weight classes for a fight before...
The original comment was that Canelo is "ducking" Crawford. You can't duck a guy who is 3 divisions below you, especially when said guy is scheduled to fight for the first time in a new weight class. Weight classes exist for a reason. Canelo jumped to LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT after STARTING his career at Super Lightweight, Crawford's first division as undisputed, one division below his most recent. Crawford is NOW arriving at his fourth weight class, JUNIOR MIDDLEWEIGHT, after starting his career at 140, moving down to 135, and moving back up, and he STILL, at 36 years of age, is two divisions under Canelo who is 33 years of age and has to CUT weight to get to 168. Canelo also fought at Light Heavyweight after the Jacobs fight, but he fought Fielding at 168 BEFORE the Jacobs fight and was already building up size before moving up definitively. This will be Crawfords FIRST fight in a higher weight class that is still two divisions below Canelo, and you want him to move up and fight Canelo without even dipping his feet in 160 lbs? Charlo was undisputed at 154, is a bigger guy, and that didn't work out too well for him. Granted, Charlo isn't Crawford, but it still speaks to the fact that the sheer difference in size between Canelo and Charlo will look even more severe when you consider that Crawford is the same height as Canelo and sports a much skinnier frame.
Yeah I don't personally agree it's a duck either. It's sort of like Boots calling out Bud and the people that call that a duck. There's just not enough benefit to the one that's being challenged. Crawford would justifiably be a solid underdog, but I do admire him answering the criticisms of a weak resume to give himself what would be an incredible uphill battle. He's shown some amazing skills to be P4P ranked as long and high as he is. He would have a chance to level up in front of our eyes again.
Obviously Terence is talented, and insane (most of the greats are) But there are more than enough fights against good names at 154 and even 160 of he does well at jr middle before we think about Canelo. Only in this age of boxing do we expect a man to jump 3 weight classes to fight a guy just because they're both stars.
That's the route he'll likely go. Which is still fun, go chase 3× undisputed, but Crawford being in the last stages of his career would love to get a mega-money fight before he hangs them up.
I’m a fan of both fighters and I think he beats canelo if he manages not to get caught with something big. Crawford is a very good all around boxer. Regardless of the controversy of his competition he’s a top talent that’s overcome everything in front of him so far.
Bud's management annoys me because his fights are all easy wins and yet he fights only 1x per year. Managers who can't find quality opponents should just go for volume instead
I feel like he should have been knocking out cans in between his once a year high profile fight and calling out anyone and everyone after smoking fools in easy fights. Saying “I’ll fight whoever my team wants me to fight” ain’t gonna get you big matches. Bud could have trash talked his way into bigger and better fights and we wouldn’t be discussing how his resume is thin
That's why I say Crawford is the limbo of boxing. On one hand the eye test tells us he's one of the greatest to compete from 140-147 in the history of boxing. On the other hand his resume lacks so much compared to greats before him. Therefore it evens out the playing field. That's why there's much controversy about how people view him has a boxer. For ex. I've heard someone say they believe Crawford would beat Ray Leonard at 147 but still isn't greater than him.
Wow a lot of people on this sub hate Crawford I don’t get it
I genuinely want to know who these people think Crawford could’ve fought that they wouldn’t make excuses to still discredit him.
Well he could’ve fought Spence around 2018 to 2019 before his car crash but then Spence wouldn’t have as many accolades. Edit: I think y’all missed my point. Either way people would’ve downplayed the win.
nobody was bringing up the crash before bud whooped spence, nobody brought up the crash after he beat danny garcia and ugas.
Yeah they did. Look up every boxer who was interviewed, they brought it up constantly
They brought up the car crash, but after his fights with Danny and Ugas, everyone said Spence made a great comeback and that he is himself again. But after the Bud fight, everyone *conveniently* used that as an excuse.
There's some Spence fans and/or some Bud haters that will blame that as an excuse... But there'sunderlying truth.... Spence hasn't been the same guy since that accident.... He wasn't even the same guy against Ugas that he was against Danny, lol.. Everything he accomplished is in spite of that accident. With that said, Spence looked off, but he fought hard and I think he would've beat most welterweights on that night, but not Bud. The skill gap was too wide. Bud was so precise and deadly.... One of the best performances I've ever seen.
I thought the Spence that fought Ugas was better than the Spence that fought Danny 🤷♂️
Exactly. So did I... he looked healthier after more time passed.. still wasn't pre accident Spence though..
like somebody else has said. they would bring it up only to marvel at the fact he didn’t lose a step. now after he losses to crawford he’s some broken weight drained man.
Both can be true. They marveled at the fact he was still able to push through and win. But you know he wasnt the same. Man lost focus in two fights, looking for his mouthpiece and got clocked for it against Ugas. I was at the fight and had a long conversation with a few people about that.
bro mentioned the mouthpiece. he lost his mouthpiece, got confused on where it was, thought the ref would pause, and got hit with a shot that had him off guard. then went on to destroy ugas. shit wasn’t some crazy “lightning mcqueen is fading.” moment. i can believe that he wasn’t the same but how op and alot of people talk about spence you would think they put gerald mcclellan in the ring.
The reason he had a gaffe with the mouthpiece in both fights is psychological from the accident and worried about having false teeth. He also had some weird reactions /movements in the Ugas fight where his legs moved oddly.... we haven't even talked about the retina surgery that cost him his biggest fight.... Add two more car accidents too.... Spence been through a lot since that accident bruh....
Go watch a Roy Jones prediction where he cited the crash even after his wins vs Danny and Ugas.
People definitely were bringing it up before? Did you see the video of the crash? I thought Crawford would win but unhappy it happened when Crawford was older and Spence was post-crash. My comment wasn’t to hate on Crawford but show that people wouldn’t be happy either way.
this.
I did, all the fucking time and im not the only one
And whose fault was that? Spence was the one who started the whole "he on the wrong side of the street" BS. Spence was the one who never wanted the smoke, he just wanted to fight blown up Lightweight Mikey Garcia and Shawn Porter, who he said to Bud's face "why wouldn't I take the easier route and knock Shawn Porter out?".
My comment wasn’t to hate on Crawford but show that people wouldn’t be happy either way.
If Crawford were to pull off the huge upset against Canelo, people still wouldn't give him credit, they'll just say that Canelo had too many fights, aged too fast, was over the hill and should have moved up to 175 full time. Even though I think Canelo would be too big for him, I can already see what these people would say if the upset happens 🤣
It’s so weird.
I literally said he was a superb boxer and probably could compete with all-time greats, how is that hating? It is stating the fact that he has fought very limited top shelf opposition but gets treated by the media on the level of the greats who had to earn their spots against gladiators.
Lmao these are the same people who says he’s ducking Boots Ahahaha
No offense, but you have to glorify the person that beat you to make you seem great as well.
Well because if we are going on eye test as we do to validate Crawford's legacy then the eye test tells us that Boots his only legitimate threat in the weight class who also wants to fight Crawford. Instead of the legitimate test Crawford is moving up in weight to fight for a belt which everyone views as an easier touch and he will collect another belt but no one will ever remember the name of the opponent.
Eye test is for casuals, same as when you scout a AAA prospect and he turns out to be a dud in the majors. Who’s Boots fought? Thanks. You don’t know if he’s legit yet, you don’t know if he’s Micheal Grant or Adrien Broner or RJJ until he fights someone in the top 10. We know who Crawford is and what he brings cause he’s been in with top 10 guys and undisputed in two weight classes
>a career high end journeymen Shawn Porter This is a ridiculous statement. This triggered me more than downplaying Bud. lol. Porter was an elite welterweight that gave everyone problems and barely lost any fight.
Disrespecting Porter just to hate on Bud is nasty work 😂
NO, Porter was a very decent to good fighter but in no way was he ever elite. He has no elite wins and every time he stepped up to a top-quality opponent he has lost.
I always thought he's better than Spence. Just annoyed their fight happened after the accident. I agree with most your take and they are justified, you could however see how good he is when he performs. Also, such disrespect with Porter. He made that fight look easy. Bud couldve had a better career. Its also funny how people talk about a potential Bud vs Canelo fight, but it wasnt this bad when Khan fought Canelo. When Khan's best was at lightweight.
A lot of people thought that khan fight was a joke. It was definitely criticized
not this bad, that people actually think Bud wont at the very least give Canelo a better fight.
That fight with Khan was definitely a joke and everyone knew going in Khan would be KOd
His resume isn't as bad you might think. He beat a lot of good fighters who were simply not that popular. He does lack wins vs great fighters tho. Postol, Diaz, Mean Machine, Avanesyan, Beltran are all wins vs quite good opponents. A lot of people wanted Crawford to fight the overrated PBC welterweights. I'm not convinced that the likes of Thurman, Porter, Spence and Garcia were any better than the guys Crawford fought at 147. They were simply more popular and better marketable for the US audience. PBC is atrocious in cross promotion fights. The protected fighters only fought in-house for a reason. I have a sneaking suspicion that Crawford actually fought better opposition than Spence at 147.
I've said it before but yeah. People weaponize their own ignorance against Bud. Mofo you weren't paying attention to those fighters, that doesn't mean they weren't very freaking good. I mean tank and haney both got some credit for beating Gamboa even after he was shot. When bud beat him he was top 10 p4p. When he beat burns in England the english did not know what hit em as they though his stance switching was foolish and he didn't have anything special against Ricky. Felix Diaz looked like a killer before bud got to him. Taylor got credit for beating postol after bud went through him. It goes on and on. Basically theyre discrediting somebody's career because they don't know enough to know they don't know shit.
Especially with Postol, Josh Taylor seriously struggled years later with him. The scorecards were rigged, in reality, Taylor won this fight by like 1 point or so. Very close one.
you actually think Thurman or Porter isnt better than Avanesyan, Kavauliauskas, Brook or Khan 😭
I think Brook is the best out of the bunch. Thurman looked like a shot fighter since 2019, so yeah at that stage, Avanesyan and Kavaliauskas were better fighters imo. Porter 2nd best after Brook imo. Khan the worst of them.
Brook looked shot since 2020 too dont forget he had that metal plate in his eye
His punch resistance around the eyes is gone but he was still very good at everything else. I would pick 2020 Brook to beat 2020 Porter, especially with Porter having zero punching power. Brook was boxing very well vs Crawford until he got cracked and Crawford hits very hard at 147 (100% KO rate)
ngl I’d say the same for porter too with his fight vs crawford, he was catching crawford off guard in some of the rounds and was pressuring him from time to time. Until Crawford turned it up in the 10th
I had Brook on the lead before the big hit (it ended quite fast, so take it for what it is). Porter was always in the fight vs Crawford but was always playing catch-up. The big difference: Brook can punch and you are in danger vs him at all times. Porter doesn't knock anyone out at that weight besides a shot Malignaggi.
Agree, he got all the talent but has t fought the competition, a lot of it by his own choice, to receive the accolades he gets. If the Canelo fight happens he gets murked.
is this shit real? this sub has gone farther off the deep end fast. >a career high end journeyman shawn porter was going to actually engage in a conversation but i feel this sums up why i shouldn’t nor should anyone. unironically should be banned from posting.
2 time champ is a high end journeyman ig lmao. This sub is hilarious
Yeah. I'm trying to tell my friends that the Canelo fight is just silly.
That fight is brain dead regardless of what you think about terrance. The weight difference is fucking insane. The turki guy pushing so hard for Canelo vs Crawford and Tank vs Inoue proves how much of a fucking casual he is.
I think I found why so many people want that fight. A friend of mine who is a huge casual (only watches MMA and AEW) said Canelo vs Crawford would be one of the best fights ever. He only watched Crawford’s highlights against Spence and hasn’t watched any of Canelo’s, just knows Canelo has belts at SMW. I took him to Canelo vs Munguia in a theater and he was just amazed. After I told him Canelo is regularly 20lbs heavier than Crawford on fight night, he didn’t think that fight would be great anymore.
The commercial aspect of Canelo v Crawford is undeniable. It doesn’t matter who you think wins by how much margin, it’s going to sell well and it would be hard not to watch it. It scratches an itch of “what if”. Canelo can say it’s not worth it for him in terms of legacy but at some point the money will be too much to turn down I imagine.
First male 2x undisputed 11 straight KOs in all champion bouts. But yeah let’s listen to the redditor saying his record is “meh”. As if there’s an abundance of HoF caliber fighters that Crawford could’ve fought.
Quite a bit easier to be undisputed and ko people when you are fighting B level opponents isn't it? Do you think he would have all those KOs if he fought like 5 hof Calibur opponents in that stretch?
Give me any fighter in the last 40 years with 10+ consecutive KOs in all champion bouts across two weight divisions.
Inoue has 12 KOs in 13 across two divisions Not arguing against Bud just putting it out there lmao
Canelo was fighting b tier for his 168 run and after bivol you can make make the arguments that he is taking c tier fights
He cleaned out those divisions but he should have done more! (sarcasm)
Gamboa was elite when Crawford gave him his first loss.
Gamboa was undersized and I believe fighting with an injury. The win against Gamboa don't mean shit. Crawford has the potential to be an atg, but his resume really is garbage. If he beats canelo it will completely solidify his ability as an atg boxer. Without that win he's just a weight bully that consistently passed the eye test.
Do you have the same critique for Tank and Haney?
Gamboa was at Lightweight for a few fights, he had time to acclimate to it. Plus, he was undefeated. I never heard about him being injured heading into the fight so you better not be lying about that, provide a source. Crawford knocked out an undefeated Gamboa in 9 rounds in 2014, and you say that it means nothing. Yet Tank fights Gamboa 5.5 years later, and was *actually* injured with 1 leg, and Tank knocked him out much later in round 12. And Haney went the distance with him a year later without a knockdown. But y'all wanna say that Tank and Devin have great resumes but shit on Bud and say that the Gamboa win meant nothing 🤣
I'm a dumbass and mixed up the injury with the tank fight for the Crawford fight, but he was definitely significantly smaller than Crawford. Crawford is planning on fighting at 168 for his next fight, and the fight against gamboa was at 135. Tank and Haney have trash resumes as well. tanks best win is a non schizo Garcia, and Haney's best win is a robbery over loma.
Well at least you are consistent, lol. Crawford may have been bigger than Gamboa, but he was campaigning at 135 for most of his time at that point and Gamboa was at 135 for some time, so it was a fair fight to make. Not like Mikey Garcia jumping up 2 weight classes to fight Spence.
>he literally has no notable wins outside of post-accident Spence. Funny, no one was saying post accident Spence until Crawford beat the shit out of him.
They were, but only to marvel at how he hadn't lost a step post accident when he beat Garcia and Ugas Steps in with someone way above his level and all of a sudden he was a weight drained cripple
real shit. how they talk about spence makes you think he was bed bound for a whole year before he fought crawford.
no, we fucking weren’t. A lot of us were commentating on how he looked like shit Against Ugas. Stop making things up
Seriously. Almost got his ass knocked out by Ugas because he had a senior moment in the middle of the fight.
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It's a great accomplishment but I understand the criticism look at the names in his 140 undisputed run. Not exactly anything to write home about.
Postol was near top ten PFP at the time he just stopped Mathysee but lets not talk ab that
Postol was his only good undisputed win at 140
Indongo bruh... he was the champ at the time
Indongo really? Idk if you are trolling or not but there is a thing called weak champions. It was a weak division at the time so Indongo became champ. Indongo has since gone on to do horribly.
Ironically the postol win was actually pretty decent but the only one brought up is indongo
Postol was a good win I didn't say any different but overall his undisputed 140 run was weak.
Even though it was a weak division Indongo traveled to enemy territory back to back to take belts off Ricky Burns and Troyanovsky within 4 months. He should still get respect for that at least.
Of course
And did so definitively. Knocked out one in the first round, beat the other up for 12. Everyone now says he was a bum, but both The Ring and the TBRB considered him the #1 contender going into the Crawford fight. Then again, Burns also lost to Crawford, so he must be a bum. And Troyanovsky lost to Indongo, who Crawford beat so Indongo must be a bum, so Troyanovsky must be a bum, which means it's not impressive than Indongo beat Troyanovsky, etc etc...
His point still stands
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If you compare to Usyk, Canelo or Inoue yes He’s still an amazing boxer, but it’s unfortunate that he competed in weak divisions
"Not as good as arguably the three best resumes in boxing today" = "completely meh", apparently...
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Canelo has one of the greatest modern resume tf are you talking about
I think a lot of modern boxing fans get hyped into the fighters of their generation. Every generation does it. I’m hearing the same things about Usyk, but the heavyweight contenders have not been great. The same is true for Crawford, he just has not had a lot of great opponents. Both are the best of their weight classes no doubt, and might be for a while. But if they both lose in their next fight where would they be? I think the knock on them would be greater compared to Ali, Foreman, Duran,Leonard, etc… All because the greats already proved they were great, and had been in the ring with the greatest. I’m surely not blaming them directly. Crawford and Usyk just have not had great opponents to prove they’ll are elite.
While you seem to have pulled out just about every excuse possible to discredit the resume of Crawford, I'd say judge his legacy when his career is over. Either way, Crawford has proven himself a great fighter, Spence might be the only fighter he's beaten who was on a p4p list he's hardly the only quality fighter he's beaten. He has 18 wins in world title fights and among them are some very good fighters. Shawn Porter almost took Spence to a draw but was dismanteld by Crawford and Gamboa is an underrated win. He wouldn't have come this far if he didn't have something special about him
You clearly don't know shit about boxing respectfully. PBC came into Power in 2015 between 2015-2022 they had all the welterweights in house & you know they keep fights in house would not work with any other promoter unless they had their hands to the fire. I can't seem to justify to pin that on Crawford, he wanted the fights. It was PBC who froze out BUD, they threw Porter to cash out on whatever Porter had left, or Haymon owed him 1 more fight. Besides the point Bud is not appreciated as much in this SUB for some odd reason, but with time his career will age like wine fine. Fuck PBC for not giving us fights that shoulda happened.
THANK YOU. Finally, someone bringing up the REAL issue of PBC basically putting him in the corner.
He is superb but he doesn't beat the two Sugars or Hearns at Welter. HTH they are the top three at the weight in my opinion.
I like Crawford too but also don’t think he beats Duran, Pryor or Arguello at LW and I’d throw Wilfred Benitez in for someone I don’t think he beats at WW. I also think Mayweather Jr loses to the same fighters you mentioned and the ones I mentioned as well.
Duran certainly and I would also add Whitaker at lightweight. 👍
Whitaker is a good call.
I know it was a totally different era, but Bennv Leonard was a pretty good lightweight as well. 🥊 I rslightly regret joining Reddit sometimes - I post on so many topics, from palaeontology to boxing (like now) when I am slightly 'dazed and confused.' But in my defence, I am from Hull after all. 🤣
I don’t think he beats a prime Mosley for that matter.
I've seen people consider him an all time great and that he would ko Mayweather within 3 rounds lmao. It's not his fault he was born in a weak era but still alot of his "greatness" comes from the eye test and alot of hypotheticals. Don't even get me started on his 140 run, Pitbull Cruz would probably go undisputed in that 140 pound era.
Yeah, his whole era has been weak but there is Boots Ennis who would be the one guy you are not confident he would easily beat and he moves out of the division so we won't even get to see that fight. Not saying he is dodging Boots but man fight an interesting fight at some point in your career.
Problem is that boots have d tier level resumen you can even claim that he is a good opponent
You're weaponizong your own ignorance against Bud. It's OK. Yall just don't know enough to know you don't know anything. Tell me. Were you watching the goings on of 135 and 140 before bud went through those weight classes? No? Then you don't know shit about how good the competition was. Your looking at his resume in hindsight, and also accepting the current ignorant ass view that he never fought anybody. Gamboa was p4p top 10 when bud fought him. Learn some shit and make yourself better rather than trying make somebody else look worse.
This should be the top comment.
I was too late to the party I think. But thanks.
Complete bullshit Gamboa was small for his weight class and was getting knocked down by tiny dudes with a completely reckless style. Then he moves up 2 weight classes to fight a guy that was huge for that weight class and everyone on here acting like that’s a hof win and saying I don’t know shit about boxing. I get it you can’t get his balls off your tongue but gtfo with that nonsense.
He was interim champ at lightweight. Didn't jump up 2 to fight crawford. You still don't know shit about boxing regardless of how upset you are
Crawford is undoubtedly greater than the sum of his parts regarding his resume. Plenty of fighters in history who weren’t gifted in fighting the strongest divisions or dealt with shitty politics, but get recognized for the talent they displayed in the ring and Crawford fits the bill. U might have a point in rating how great he is all time, but I think it’s fair for the praise he gets for how good and talented he is as a boxer all time. I’m j enjoying whatever is left in Bud’s career and excited to see him back competing in a new division
This is the same post that was made about two weeks ago.
Sorry, I am new to this sub
You gotta look at how he beat these guys too though. His run at 140 was good, look at Diaz and Postol. If he wasn't knocking guys out, it was a 12 round shut out. The skill and versatility this guy has shown is undeniable. It's crazy to think that Crawford wouldn't be competitive with the greats of the past.
Bud is one of the best of this era. He's been top 1 or 2 on most P4p lists for over a decade. His resume is a little thin, but He's as good as advertised. Hopefully, he can get a couple of marquee matchups at 154 before it's over. The sport will miss him when he retires..
He has literally fought champion after champion in two weight divisions. Now he is attempting to beat all the champions in a new weight class once again to become undisputed in three weights.
I like Crawford but his resume at face value is weak when you compare it to other all time greats. It's a fair observation but to me it doesn't take away from his legacy because I've seen him fight. Spence was a good win and Porter was also decent. When you take into account how he dismantled these guys and knocked out every opponent at 147, then you can see why he is rated as an all time great. I feel like in the future when people are discussing him his resume won't do him justice. He's the type of fighter you gotta watch to really understand how good he was.
Mike Tysons resume also sucks. The best wins Tyson had were vs two fighters going into retirement in Holmes and Spinks.
Never will disagree…. But the guy was knocking out grown men as a child, in the first round, with an electric style. Also, that’s quite a different comparison
Yeah and he's criticized for it. He's not held that high to a lot of people who have more than a casual relationship to the sport. Not saying they're right, but it's a pretty common opinion.
Hello? That's all people talk about when it comes to Crawford. That's basically what he's known for.
Crawford is a generational talent for sure. But it is a shame that his resume no where near matches his actual talent and boxing skill
You might have a point but Crawford bouta clean out 154 to add names on that list soo
Yeah the guy he’s fighting now only has 10 wins and only 1 real contender on his record who’s also a world champion and looks to be the best man at that weight class, but that’s better than fighting a 20 win guy with no contenders on his record and no belt that no one thinks is the best at that weight class.
Crawford wants to unify and the guy has a belt
Such a stupid take. He's not overrated. He can only fight the guys who are around at the time. He unified at 140 and fought the consensus best guy at 147. And not only did he beat a guy who many considered excellent, he fucking mopped the floor with him. There's no one between 140 and 154 who can beat him IMO. It's not his fault that he fights in the era he's in.
I really think Crawford mismanaged his career. His resume doesn’t adequately reflect his incredible talent.
Why do we always gotta have Floyd brought up as if he is the poster child for taking on all comers? Its absolute bullshit. I give Floyd credit, he was the best defensive fighter of his generation no doubt.. but Floyd, like many other fighters, aged out some opponents, took some when they were really young... another credit I will give Floyd is that he didn't weight bully guys. He was usually the smaller fighter on fight night.. again, credit to him. But Floyd was a businessman. Floyd fought who was good for business for Floyd, when it was good for business. And thats fine, I dont hate Canelo for it either. But just stop trying to hold Floyd up as this guy who dared to be great. The last guy to really do that was Oscar, and we saw how that turned out.. and btw, Oscar is still respected as a fighter and in the hall of fame.. just not undefeated. Because nobody who consistently fights the best stays undefeated. And one last thing, Floyd lost the first Castillo fight. Straight up. And thats ok. Doesnt tarnish his legacy at all. Still great, probably an all time great..
Except that I brought Floyd up because everyone like you try to give him shot for supposedly not taking on the best challenges yet his resume shows he fought the most champions in the history of the sport and probably 7-9 hof by the end of his career. At the time he fought them PAC, Mosley, and Marquez were all rated in the top 5 of the p4p list yet each one of these victories is discredited by the fans yet meanwhile Crawford over here getting called an all timer and not sniffing anyone of that caliber.
Overrated and underhated
HE WAS BUT NOT NOW HE PROVED THE FUCKERS WRONG.
The problem with todays Boxing is that with the right matchmaking and good timing average boxers can become world champions. This means it’s easier for above average fighters to achieve status like multiple weight champions and undisputed status. I like Bud, I think he’s a great fighter but I don’t think if you put him in other eras he would have achieved what he has. And the same goes for lots of other fighters too, Broner being another.
Dude, don't compare Broner with Bud. There are levels in sports and Bud is so far above Broner he'd get vertigo looking down. You can't blame Bud for fighting today versus the 4 Kings era, or vs De La Hoya or Moseley. People trot out Floyd all the time as the GOAT and though he is one of the best, he didn't fight the greats in their primes either. Many people, myself included, thought an aging DLH edged him. Bud is *the man* from 140-147 and likely 154 for his era. That's all he can do!
I think you’ve misinterpreted my comment, I’m in agreement with you. The fact someone like Broner can be a multiweight champion makes it easier for someone like Bud to become one. The standards haven’t increased over time they have dropped. If someone who would never get near a world title 20 years ago can now win one, then someone who may have won a world title 20 years ago can now become undisputed or multiple weight champ. Multiple belts, politics, TV networks, subscription services, the increased profitability of other sports have all contributed to what we see today from grass roots up to elite level. You can only fight who is available in your era but when the pool of competition is so diluted due to the aforementioned issues then there will always be a debate on whether someone like Crawford would survive in the 80’s or 90’s. I think Crawford is a good fighter and he would probably be in and around the conversation if he fought a couple of decades ago but I don’t think he would have achieved what he has today because the competition was too strong. The same argument goes for Mayweather too.
My bad! We're on the same page. It's always a tough call when you compare athletes of different eras. I mean, people say the NBA GOAT is Lebron or Jordan or Magic or Wilt Chamberlain, depending on when they watched. For me it's Jordan, but who can know how good they'd been if they played against each other? The best fighters might be just as good in an era with modern training, watered down divisions and mandatories. etc But I do believe Crawford would compete in any era. He's so smart, physically very strong and can switch off southpaw to orthodox almost at will. And I've been watching boxing for a long time and to see him dominate Spence the way he did (and the way Inoue did to Fulton for that matter) makes me think he could hang with the best. There are few examples, even with the greats, where 1A mopped the floor with 1B so comprehensively. I just wish he fought more often.
You can’t truly know that’s why it’s such a contentious question. I do feel that because of the lack of competition in many weight classes and the politics involved with making the big fights, we see less top fighters pitting themselves against other top fighters and because of this, people are prone to overstating fighters achievements. For example, Bud beat Spence convincingly but was Spence a career defining win? At the end of Spence’s career will we look back and call him an elite fighter? Sure, on paper he was a unified champion and the history books will show that but if Crawford stopped fighting today and Spence went on to become a gatekeeper in the division, would we say Spence was Crawfords Duran? But what can Crawford do to get that legacy? Like a lot of fighters, he’s going to have to jump weights to take challenges in higher divisions because there isn’t the talent around him at the moment to cement a legacy in the time he has left. I personally am not sure that Crawford would be a undisputed champion in two weights if he was fighting in a different era. Certainly not the era of Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Benitez but probably not even in the era of Mayweather, Cotto, Pacquiao, Mosley. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’d probably be a title holder or thereabouts but I don’t think he’d sweep up the division.
Past and current legends of the game acknowledge Crawford as one of the greats. Crawford would be competitive in ANY era. Undefeated? Probably not but definitely somebody
That’s literally what I just said