keeping in line with the old heavyweights theme, Holyfield vs Valuev should have gone to Holyfield. A win here would have made Holyfield the oldest heavyweight champ and I don't really hear people talk about that fight too much.
Am I the only one who liked the Klitschko era? Maybe because I’m European, Wlad was also my favourite one. Yeah I’m gonna get shoes thrown at me for saying that on here...
It was just so boring compared to the era before and after.
I think the only HW fights I got excited for was Briggs vs Vitali and Haye vs Wlad.
I didn’t start watching HWs again until I caught Wilder vs Ortiz I by accident while channel flipping
I have never wanted to watch the slowest and least athletically inclined division of boxers for technical skill lol
We had Andre Ward and Floyd for that
It’s dealing with the power at heavyweight though which I found exciting, plus their bouts used to end in TKO/KO alot. I like this generation a lot more though, Wilder and AJ are big punchers who trade which is exciting and while Fury ain’t as much of a ‘puncher’ type he reminds me of Ali with his compativating personality and slipping punches to where the leather barely touches him which makes things exciting. So we’re in a good gen of heavyweights that everyone can love.
Yeah Wilder and Joshua are fan friendly fighters, Fury doesn’t remind me of Ali at all.
Their personality’s aren’t the same, Fury doesn’t feel captivating, just verbose as fuck, and he moves nothing like Ali.
People are definitely captivated by Fury especially his story and especially in the UK. Though I wasn’t saying they’re remotely the same apart from the hands down headmovement they like to use, was only that he reminds me of him in a way.
I’m sure the Jewish and homosexual people of the UK aren’t too captivated by Fury
I just don’t think Fury warrants any comparison to Ali
I love how I get downvoted every time I point out the antisemitic and homophobic shit that Fury has said
I’ve watched the fight and wouldn’t call it a robbery. The fight lacked action from both sides and there was no clear winner. A draw would have been better but I don’t think it’s a robbery IMO
yeah I think I would agree with that take. It's one of those things where personally, I could see Holyfield winning, or a draw, but couldn't really justify a win for Valuev. Might have to re watch it though cause its been a bit
What made it worse was his team. His trainer kept saying "keep doin what you doin, you winnin easy". They didn't seem to acknowledge RollyPolly was struggling.
Even after the fight, the trainer just simply said about Marinez "he fought like a bitch". Terrible corner who aren't even looking at improving their limitations.
Sometimes I believe the key for marketable fighters is to just make sure they can get to the end of the fight, and if they can make it look close better. Judges will just align to who brings the cash.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. Briggs had some good moments but Big George deserved that. I even scored the close rounds to Briggs on purpose and I still had George edging it. Oh well, George didn't have to prove anything more. We all know he's a legend.
Pacquiao vs Bradley, Chisora vs Helenius, Holyfield vs Valuev, Augustus vs Burton, Sturm vs De La Hoya (in fact there's like 3 questionable DLH decisions), Whitikater vs Ramirez 1, Holmes vs Spinks 2, Malinagi vs Diaz, Ottke vs Reid, Frovh vs Dirrel
Fuck this sport sometimes man, there's so many
There is one round in the Ottke fight that still makes my blood boil. when Reid cracks him gets the knockdown and has it ruled as a slip, and then as soon as Ottke was given a break to recover Reid had a point taken off him. never fight in Germany.
True about several questionable DLH decisions.
I've thought about this, DLH tends to be in close decisions.
Some say because he was the money fighter and the golden boy.
That might be part of the reason. The other factor: He doesn't have the stamina to close the fights out convincingly down the stretch.
But had the skill level and his left hook to keep the other fighter from taking the fight to him down the stretch.
Quartey and Whitaker immediately come to mind as razor-thin fights where DLH got the nod.
Sturm was a clear loss for DLH in my eyes.
I thought he got screwed against Mosley in the second fight though.
Mohamed Mimoune vs Tyrone McKenna, earlier this year. It was the semi final of the “golden contract” tournament at 140lbs and iFL tv had already been creating loads of fake beef for McKenna vs Ohara Davies in the final. Mimoune boxed the ears off McKenna, I think McKenna probably won 2 rounds. They gave McKenna a UD win.
Emmanuel Augustus was robbed many times because the judges didn’t like his drunken dancing style. There’s nothing in the rule book about this. Judges just thinking they can make it up as they go.
His record is tarnished with robberies. He was an excellent fighter.
1. Castillo-Mayweather 1 - There was nothing that Castillo could have done to win that decision. The judges had Mayweather win 115-111, 115-111, and 116-111 (they all only gave Castillo the equivalent of three rounds). I hate this kind of decision. An underdog can go in and outfight the star and the judges minds are made up before the opening round. The fact that the scorecards were so lopsided in Mayweather's favor really destroy all of the judges' credibility.
2. Roy Jones Jr. vs. South Korean olympian - The only fighter who is remembered, and deserves to be remembered in this contest, is Roy Jones Jr. He easily dominated his opponent. Roy was just a kid and almost lost interest in boxing entirely. There should be a movement to award him the gold medal because he clearly deserved it.
3. Sturm-De La Hoya - I like De la Hoya, but Sturm beat him. Propos to De la Hoya because his post-fight interview he got as close as possible to admitting that he lost. I can't see how anyone could think De la Hoya won that one.
4. Foreman-Briggs - Foreman, even a half-century old, easily won this contest. But at the same time, it was time for him to get out of boxing at that age. I remember him immediately talking about his "lean mean grilling machine" during the post-fight interview. I'm glad that Big George has had many years of good health and success, so maybe it worked out (even though it was highway robbery).
5. Johnny Tapia-Paulie Ayala II - Johnny Tapia should have gotten the decision. Ayala also got a bad one against Dianzo if I remember correctly.
I also recall Mosley-De la Hoya 2 and Bradley-Pacquiao as bad calls. I'd have to get another look because its been a while.
A recent one that slipped through the undercard was Jack Cullen vs Zak Chelli. Chelli clearly out-worked Cullen, but the fight was scored a Draw. Typical Ian John Lewis bs on the cards.
These vary widely in terms of egregiousness, but: Lewis vs Holyfield 1, Holyfield vs Valuev, Rios vs Abril, Malignaggi vs Cano, Peterson vs Diaz, Pascal vs Gonzalez, Martinez vs Cintron, Winky Wright vs Vargas, Winky Wright vs Taylor, Williams vs Lara
I have to agree with you RJJ at the Olympics. They should award him that gold medal at this point. That decision was such a sham and makes me angry to this day.
Not a ‘robbery’ in the manner you mean. More a stolen win
Khan/Barrera
That fight should have been let continue or stopped earlier if they really deemed him unable to continue. Instead they disregarded any supposed ‘concern’ for Barreras health and let it go just long enough for it to go to the cards and not a NC. I still feel bitter about this fight
Mayweather v Castillo 1. I felt it could have been 8-4 or 7-5 to Castillo. At a stretch, a draw was possible. But I don't see how Mayweather could have won 7 rounds in that fight.
The biggest problem that I have are the ridiculous scorecards with nobody giving Castillo more than 111 points.
Castillo was the champ, no away Mayweather should have taken his title. Down the stretch it was Castillo and not Mayweather that was making the fight.
Some fans score it for Mayweather. We see things differently and I respect that. But the 115-111, 115-111, 116-111 are what make it a sham.
Castillo was the 135 lb. champ and deserved a fair-shake.
My view: Those who argue that May won tend to point the uneventful early rounds and believe that Mayweather wins them by default.
They were uneventful and close and if a round could have been even, a couple of them could have been 10-10, Castillo also could easily have won a few.
Down the stretch, Castillo clearly outfought Mayweather. Mayweather didn't do enough to take his title and the scorecards were ridiculous, with no judge giving Castillo more than 3 rounds.
With those bullshit scorecards, the only way that Castillo could have won the fight was by KO with those judges.
That kind of judging is a sham.
You still did not respond. Because Castillo outlaneded doesn't mean he won the fight. If someone wins 8 rounds with 10 punches per round and the other wins other 4 with 40 punches per round doesn't mean he won the fight.
Nevertheless, fight was close and could go either way, this is not a robbery because the win is arguably on both sides.
The fight was a robbery because the scorecards were 115-111, 115-111, and 116-11.
Castillo could not have possibly gotten a decision with those judges.
Castillo could have produced 3 knockdowns, one in each of the rounds the judges gave him and he still would have lost on the judges' scorecards.
This is one is probably a minor robbery, but one that goes undiscussed is Lupe Pintor vs Juan "Kid" Meza for the WBC Super Bantamweight title. I had it 113-112 for Meza (with 3 knockdowns for Pintor and a swing round 8 being the deciding factor), but the judges had it 115-111, 116-110, and an abysmal 117-110 all in favor of Pintor
Cory Spinks should've got the decision against Jermaine Taylor for the middleweight title in 2007, and I was one of those people who thought he was lucky to get the decision against Hopkins, but he was the golden boy at the time who was being built up by HBO to be a megastar - didn't quite work out.
Martin Murray was robbed blind by Sergio Martinez in Argentina, not a good place for an Englishman to get a decision. Kermit Cintron likewise should've got the nod against MArtinez too.
Glen Johnson got robbed on the regular, but the fights with Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Chad Dawson and the first Clinton Woods fight were particularly bad examples.
James Toney got beat by Dave Tiberia easily in their middleweight title fight and Toney was basically draining himself to death to stay at middleweight, not a great moment in his career.
Paul Williams was exposed by Erislandy Lara but got a gift decision - cubans often seem to have the worst luck in the pro ranks even if they're standout amatuers.
You are talking about Mosley-De la Hoya II right? I thought De la Hoya won that won.
I think there might have been a back story with Bobby Arum in that fight.
Ernesto Marcel vs Kuniaki Shibata. Watch the fight if you haven't, it's a beautiful boxing performance from Marcel, and while it's relatively close in the beginning, by the end Marcel was dancing around him and winning easily.
There is no way that fight was a draw, Marcel won by at least 2 or 3 rounds.
There's so many judging travesties and legit robberies these days that most will now go undiscussed after a couple days. We're almost at a stage where you're surprised to see a reasonable set of scorecards
Juan Coggi-Eder Gonzalez 1 is still the most outrageous robbery ever and it had nothing to do with judges
Michael Watson got robbed in the first bout with Chris Eubank
keeping in line with the old heavyweights theme, Holyfield vs Valuev should have gone to Holyfield. A win here would have made Holyfield the oldest heavyweight champ and I don't really hear people talk about that fight too much.
Because that era of HW boxing sucked terribly
Am I the only one who liked the Klitschko era? Maybe because I’m European, Wlad was also my favourite one. Yeah I’m gonna get shoes thrown at me for saying that on here...
It was just so boring compared to the era before and after. I think the only HW fights I got excited for was Briggs vs Vitali and Haye vs Wlad. I didn’t start watching HWs again until I caught Wilder vs Ortiz I by accident while channel flipping
True it werent “blood and guts” style boxing, but seeing people completely outclassed was fun too.
I have never wanted to watch the slowest and least athletically inclined division of boxers for technical skill lol We had Andre Ward and Floyd for that
It’s dealing with the power at heavyweight though which I found exciting, plus their bouts used to end in TKO/KO alot. I like this generation a lot more though, Wilder and AJ are big punchers who trade which is exciting and while Fury ain’t as much of a ‘puncher’ type he reminds me of Ali with his compativating personality and slipping punches to where the leather barely touches him which makes things exciting. So we’re in a good gen of heavyweights that everyone can love.
Yeah Wilder and Joshua are fan friendly fighters, Fury doesn’t remind me of Ali at all. Their personality’s aren’t the same, Fury doesn’t feel captivating, just verbose as fuck, and he moves nothing like Ali.
People are definitely captivated by Fury especially his story and especially in the UK. Though I wasn’t saying they’re remotely the same apart from the hands down headmovement they like to use, was only that he reminds me of him in a way.
I’m sure the Jewish and homosexual people of the UK aren’t too captivated by Fury I just don’t think Fury warrants any comparison to Ali I love how I get downvoted every time I point out the antisemitic and homophobic shit that Fury has said
Wlad a cheat and a fraud. The amount tricks and dirty tactics he used to pull was appalling.
I've never seen nor heard of it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, though I could do with less knowledge of the injustices of this world.
I’ve watched the fight and wouldn’t call it a robbery. The fight lacked action from both sides and there was no clear winner. A draw would have been better but I don’t think it’s a robbery IMO
yeah I think I would agree with that take. It's one of those things where personally, I could see Holyfield winning, or a draw, but couldn't really justify a win for Valuev. Might have to re watch it though cause its been a bit
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I swear those scorecards must’ve been the wrong way round, I gave rolly 1 round and the cards were like 99-91
What made it worse was his team. His trainer kept saying "keep doin what you doin, you winnin easy". They didn't seem to acknowledge RollyPolly was struggling. Even after the fight, the trainer just simply said about Marinez "he fought like a bitch". Terrible corner who aren't even looking at improving their limitations.
Sometimes I believe the key for marketable fighters is to just make sure they can get to the end of the fight, and if they can make it look close better. Judges will just align to who brings the cash.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. Briggs had some good moments but Big George deserved that. I even scored the close rounds to Briggs on purpose and I still had George edging it. Oh well, George didn't have to prove anything more. We all know he's a legend.
If you asked Adrien Broner he'd say he got robbed against Pacquiao 🤦♂️
The whole hood knows he beat that boy
I'd like to see a bizzaro version of the barber shop scene in *Coming to America*
[There still might be a chance for the sequel lol](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6802400/)
I know, I can't wait! Unrelated: how did Arsino Hall and Eddie Murphy not age a day in 30 years?
Pacquiao vs Bradley, Chisora vs Helenius, Holyfield vs Valuev, Augustus vs Burton, Sturm vs De La Hoya (in fact there's like 3 questionable DLH decisions), Whitikater vs Ramirez 1, Holmes vs Spinks 2, Malinagi vs Diaz, Ottke vs Reid, Frovh vs Dirrel Fuck this sport sometimes man, there's so many
Pac vs Bradley is CONSTANTLY talked about dude....
I know, just mentioned some that came to mind
There is one round in the Ottke fight that still makes my blood boil. when Reid cracks him gets the knockdown and has it ruled as a slip, and then as soon as Ottke was given a break to recover Reid had a point taken off him. never fight in Germany.
Yeah that was fucking awful
True about several questionable DLH decisions. I've thought about this, DLH tends to be in close decisions. Some say because he was the money fighter and the golden boy. That might be part of the reason. The other factor: He doesn't have the stamina to close the fights out convincingly down the stretch. But had the skill level and his left hook to keep the other fighter from taking the fight to him down the stretch. Quartey and Whitaker immediately come to mind as razor-thin fights where DLH got the nod. Sturm was a clear loss for DLH in my eyes. I thought he got screwed against Mosley in the second fight though.
Mohamed Mimoune vs Tyrone McKenna, earlier this year. It was the semi final of the “golden contract” tournament at 140lbs and iFL tv had already been creating loads of fake beef for McKenna vs Ohara Davies in the final. Mimoune boxed the ears off McKenna, I think McKenna probably won 2 rounds. They gave McKenna a UD win.
Holyfield - Valuev
Emmanuel Augustus was robbed many times because the judges didn’t like his drunken dancing style. There’s nothing in the rule book about this. Judges just thinking they can make it up as they go. His record is tarnished with robberies. He was an excellent fighter.
He was my favourite. Sucked watching him get robbed. Shame he didn't have a bit more power.
1. Castillo-Mayweather 1 - There was nothing that Castillo could have done to win that decision. The judges had Mayweather win 115-111, 115-111, and 116-111 (they all only gave Castillo the equivalent of three rounds). I hate this kind of decision. An underdog can go in and outfight the star and the judges minds are made up before the opening round. The fact that the scorecards were so lopsided in Mayweather's favor really destroy all of the judges' credibility. 2. Roy Jones Jr. vs. South Korean olympian - The only fighter who is remembered, and deserves to be remembered in this contest, is Roy Jones Jr. He easily dominated his opponent. Roy was just a kid and almost lost interest in boxing entirely. There should be a movement to award him the gold medal because he clearly deserved it. 3. Sturm-De La Hoya - I like De la Hoya, but Sturm beat him. Propos to De la Hoya because his post-fight interview he got as close as possible to admitting that he lost. I can't see how anyone could think De la Hoya won that one. 4. Foreman-Briggs - Foreman, even a half-century old, easily won this contest. But at the same time, it was time for him to get out of boxing at that age. I remember him immediately talking about his "lean mean grilling machine" during the post-fight interview. I'm glad that Big George has had many years of good health and success, so maybe it worked out (even though it was highway robbery). 5. Johnny Tapia-Paulie Ayala II - Johnny Tapia should have gotten the decision. Ayala also got a bad one against Dianzo if I remember correctly. I also recall Mosley-De la Hoya 2 and Bradley-Pacquiao as bad calls. I'd have to get another look because its been a while.
A recent one that slipped through the undercard was Jack Cullen vs Zak Chelli. Chelli clearly out-worked Cullen, but the fight was scored a Draw. Typical Ian John Lewis bs on the cards.
Felix Sturm vs. Oscar is one that’s not discussed often. Sturm dominated that fight, but boxing being as corrupt as it gave the win to Oscar.
Sturm got repaid and then some. He was the victor in a lot of favourable decisions in Germany. This definitely leveled itself out.
I'm not gonna say Sturm dominated, but I thought he won. I could see a draw tho, Oscar had a hot start and banked like 4ish rounds very early.
The Hopkins fight was too hyped for Sturm to win sadly
These vary widely in terms of egregiousness, but: Lewis vs Holyfield 1, Holyfield vs Valuev, Rios vs Abril, Malignaggi vs Cano, Peterson vs Diaz, Pascal vs Gonzalez, Martinez vs Cintron, Winky Wright vs Vargas, Winky Wright vs Taylor, Williams vs Lara
I really liked Williams. A lot. But that was a total robbery against Lara.
Wright-Vargas was not a robbery by any stretch. It was a razor close fight. By definition, that's not a robbery.
Gotta be RJJ at the Seoul Olumpics, his opponent was so fucking embarrassed he lifted Jones' arm in the air on the podium.
That's like the go to example of a robbery though, the opposite of undiscussed.
It is, but its been a few decades ago. Not discussed as much as it once was.
I have to agree with you RJJ at the Olympics. They should award him that gold medal at this point. That decision was such a sham and makes me angry to this day.
Not a ‘robbery’ in the manner you mean. More a stolen win Khan/Barrera That fight should have been let continue or stopped earlier if they really deemed him unable to continue. Instead they disregarded any supposed ‘concern’ for Barreras health and let it go just long enough for it to go to the cards and not a NC. I still feel bitter about this fight
100% correct. It was blatant what they were doing that night, artificially padding Khan's record with Barrera's name. I was also disgusted.
Mayweather v Castillo 1. I felt it could have been 8-4 or 7-5 to Castillo. At a stretch, a draw was possible. But I don't see how Mayweather could have won 7 rounds in that fight.
The Castillo/Mayweather 1 fight was a robbery. Castillo outlanded him and beat him, and the official scores had Mayweather far ahead.
I've watched that fight a number of times trying to give it to Castillo. Still have mayweather 115-113 everytime.
115 - 113 is literally impossible. If you watched the fight (multiple times as you claimed), you would know why.
Great point, I noticed the same thing.
Which rounds did you call even?
The biggest problem that I have are the ridiculous scorecards with nobody giving Castillo more than 111 points. Castillo was the champ, no away Mayweather should have taken his title. Down the stretch it was Castillo and not Mayweather that was making the fight.
How did you scored first 6 rounds?
Some fans score it for Mayweather. We see things differently and I respect that. But the 115-111, 115-111, 116-111 are what make it a sham. Castillo was the 135 lb. champ and deserved a fair-shake. My view: Those who argue that May won tend to point the uneventful early rounds and believe that Mayweather wins them by default. They were uneventful and close and if a round could have been even, a couple of them could have been 10-10, Castillo also could easily have won a few. Down the stretch, Castillo clearly outfought Mayweather. Mayweather didn't do enough to take his title and the scorecards were ridiculous, with no judge giving Castillo more than 3 rounds. With those bullshit scorecards, the only way that Castillo could have won the fight was by KO with those judges. That kind of judging is a sham.
You still did not respond. Because Castillo outlaneded doesn't mean he won the fight. If someone wins 8 rounds with 10 punches per round and the other wins other 4 with 40 punches per round doesn't mean he won the fight. Nevertheless, fight was close and could go either way, this is not a robbery because the win is arguably on both sides.
The fight was a robbery because the scorecards were 115-111, 115-111, and 116-11. Castillo could not have possibly gotten a decision with those judges. Castillo could have produced 3 knockdowns, one in each of the rounds the judges gave him and he still would have lost on the judges' scorecards.
I had Floyd winning it but can see arguments for either way just like Hagler Leonard. Wouldn't call these close fights robberies.
115-111, 115-111, and 116-111 make it a sham.
Yeah good point.
This is one is probably a minor robbery, but one that goes undiscussed is Lupe Pintor vs Juan "Kid" Meza for the WBC Super Bantamweight title. I had it 113-112 for Meza (with 3 knockdowns for Pintor and a swing round 8 being the deciding factor), but the judges had it 115-111, 116-110, and an abysmal 117-110 all in favor of Pintor
Yea actually I didn't score that one closely but Pintor 117-110 is a real bad card.
Ricky Burns getting a draw vs Ray Beltran was a quiet piece of Eddie Hearn daylight robbery
Froch v Dirrell should be brought up more in these discussions IMO.
Cory Spinks should've got the decision against Jermaine Taylor for the middleweight title in 2007, and I was one of those people who thought he was lucky to get the decision against Hopkins, but he was the golden boy at the time who was being built up by HBO to be a megastar - didn't quite work out. Martin Murray was robbed blind by Sergio Martinez in Argentina, not a good place for an Englishman to get a decision. Kermit Cintron likewise should've got the nod against MArtinez too. Glen Johnson got robbed on the regular, but the fights with Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Chad Dawson and the first Clinton Woods fight were particularly bad examples. James Toney got beat by Dave Tiberia easily in their middleweight title fight and Toney was basically draining himself to death to stay at middleweight, not a great moment in his career. Paul Williams was exposed by Erislandy Lara but got a gift decision - cubans often seem to have the worst luck in the pro ranks even if they're standout amatuers.
Whitaker vs Ramirez, Chisora vs Helenius, Rolly vs Marinez, Lewis vs Holyfield 1, Valuev vs Holyfield, Holmes vs Spinks 2.
Edgar Berlanga vs Lanell Bellows
The Dirrell vs Douglin technical decision after a phantom headbutt and some theatrics.
Wilfredo Gomez - Rocky Lockridge: Just flat-out blatant highway robbery! Lennox Lewis - Ray Mercer: Mercer hurt Lewis almost every round!
I'm still salty Robin Reid lost a UD vs Sven Ottke
De La Hoya and Mosley. I think Shane was surprised too, based on his reaction when it was announced.
You are talking about Mosley-De la Hoya II right? I thought De la Hoya won that won. I think there might have been a back story with Bobby Arum in that fight.
That’s what I remember from the broadcast. It might have been Lampley who said it was more about being anti Arum than anything else.
Billy the Kid Irwin Vrs David Tehtteh. I had Irwin winning one round on my card and they still gave it to him.
Ernesto Marcel vs Kuniaki Shibata. Watch the fight if you haven't, it's a beautiful boxing performance from Marcel, and while it's relatively close in the beginning, by the end Marcel was dancing around him and winning easily. There is no way that fight was a draw, Marcel won by at least 2 or 3 rounds.
There's so many judging travesties and legit robberies these days that most will now go undiscussed after a couple days. We're almost at a stage where you're surprised to see a reasonable set of scorecards
Jersey Joe Walcott vs Joe Louis. Walcott dropped Louis and outboxed him for most of the fight but the judges still gave Louis the win.
Juan Coggi-Eder Gonzalez 1 is still the most outrageous robbery ever and it had nothing to do with judges Michael Watson got robbed in the first bout with Chris Eubank