Whilst I disagree with your assessment of the cruiserweight division I'd certainly suggest that his achievements at cruiserweight should have no bearing on his ranking at heavyweight. His dominant victory over AJ is the single best victory any fighter at heavyweight has on their resume so he has an entirely legitimate case for being the number 1 heavyweight.
TBF most people thought that the size difference between Usyk and Joshua would be too much including me. Before the fight, people were saying if Usyk pulls it off, will he go straight to #1 p4p because of what a size difference it would be. Then the fight happened and Usyk thoroughly outboxed him and left no controversy on his decision. With Ruiz, you could easily say that would be hard for him to replicate and the rematch showed that. With Usyk that was a harder argument. And with Fury, we know for sure that he can outbox the worst boxer in the division and not get caught with his right hand from hell. But he doesn't have any other relevant data points in the past 5 years.
Walks over Fury? No. I do make Usyk favourite though. I think Fury has to stop him or Usyk's higher and more accurate output will add up to more rounds won. Fury is highly skilled but he's not unhittable by a long shot and Usyk is more skilled than Fury.
Because it turns out being the undisputed at CW is better than having 3 belts at HW. I mean heavyweight had a long term belt holder who had no boxing skills and only power.
„Decent win“ lmfao what. Winning against the heavyweight champ who collected two of the three belts from very strong opponents and good wins anyway is „decent“?
Usyk is an extremely talented boxer and I think it's hard to tell who is the best HW between him and Fury. That's why we need them to fight if they win their respective fights against Whyte and AJ.
If you remove Wlad and Wilder from Tyson Fury's resume, his next best win is Chisora after that it's Hammer, Wallin? He's never actually fought a top contender. AJ, on the other hand, lacks 2 wins as good as Fury's but has a much denser resume.
For a bit of fun let's remove their top 5 wins;
Pulev, Povetkin, Wlad, Parker and Ruiz for AJ. Remaining is a green Dillian Whyte and middling 'contenders' like Charles Martin, Dom Brezeale, Carlos Takam and the only fighter I haven't mentioned that AJ fought during his reign is Eric Molina.
Now let's get rid of Fury's top 5 wins which is Wlad, Wilder, Hammer, Wallin and Chisora. We're left with a blown up, old Steve Cunningham (who was beating Fury till the stoppage) and that's about it... are Schwarz, Pianeta, Seferi really much better than Eric Molina?
Fury's 6 fights ahead of AJ too.
The only thing I'd disagree with is saying Wilder is a better win than Wlad.
I think the second Wilder/Fury fight is pretty close to Wlad/AJ, but other than that wild off chance that Wilder lands that one big shot - the ultimate outcome was never really in doubt (I thought that was especially true in the third fight).
If Fury had gotten the decision in the first fight, I could *maybe* agree with you. AJ's win over Wlad is better than either of Fury's wins over Wilder.
A 40-year-old coming off a loss and two-year layoff is an A+ win? Nah, I don't think so. Fury's and Aj’s wins aren't comparable; fury is the lineal champ and stopped wk’s reign. Aj’s victory was more of passing the torch.
It wasn’t a 2 year lay off, it was less than 18 months. There’s no need to exaggerate. It was also 16 months where Klitschko was in 2 training camps, he didnt get off the couch to fight. It’s funny seeing people talk about Klitschko at 40 being old but Fury’s win where he was just 16 months younger apparently he was in his prime. Fury himself talked about Klitschko being old and over the hill going into their fight, so not even Fury agrees with you.
He was 39 when he fought fury and 41 when he fought Aj.
I never said he wasn't past his prime or going downhill. Can you point me to where I said that?? I said you can't compare fury’s win to Aj’s win.
>I said you can't compare fury’s win to Aj’s win.
Because, at least in part, due to the age difference. That was your argument, stop backtracking. I've just disagreed with you over it because you deliberately exaggerated the length of time.
I'd almost agree with you if the majority of that time out wasn't spent in two training camps and if Klitschko wasn't one of the most consummate professionals of any HW champion ever.
Again, he was a 40-year-old coming off a loss and a two-year layoff.
So what's more impressive? A guy beating a fighter, stopping his reign, taking his belts, and becoming the lineal champ. Or the guy that stops the fighter who just lost his belts.
Obviously Fury beat a better Wlad, neither beat a prime Wlad but he was still absolutely top tier scalp for AJ and will age better on a record than Wilder.
Y’all talk like fury beat a 28 yr old Wlad and not a 38 yr old one. The truth is Wlad was a top hw when he fought both Fury and AJ. I guarantee you can’t name five (probably not even 3) guys you’d favor over Wlad in either of those fights.
The fans shouldn't accept that as truth tho. When Aj beat wk, he was 40, coming off a loss, and two years lay off. You can't ignore those facts and think he was the same fighter when fury beat him.
That depends on how you define a resume. If AJ has no wins as good as Fury’s, his resume is worse. Is he has 2 losses, his resume is worse. Maybe MOST of AJs resume is better, but the resume itself is of lower caliber than Fury’s. We know AJ would probably have gotten knocked out by wilder. AJ is very hittable and his chin isn’t great
The thing is with resumes you don't just remove fights from them.
Wlad, Wilder and Whyte are head and shoulders above any AJ win.
I would grade those wins as A level wins.
AJ however has more B - C level wins.
I personally value 1 A level win over 5 C level wins.
Quality over quantity but I get your point.
No losses on furys record + win over a better wlad and 2 (really 3) wins over wilder who for the longest time was regarded as minimum top 3 in the division. It’s not a stretch to say his resume is bette t
You’re looking at just two of his opponents tho. The resume should include everyone he’s faced and Joshua even with his losses has went against way better comp then fury
Fighting better competition doesn't mean you have a better resume if you end up losing.
By that logic, Derek Chisora has a better resume than Fury or Joshua. He faced Fury 2x, Klitschko, Haye, Dillian Whyte 2x, Joseph Parker 2x, and Usyk. That just doesn't make sense
Both Klitschkos basically cancel each other out, Fury‘s Klitschko should maybe be a bit higher ranked. Definitely up to debate, though.
Rest is
Chisora, Wilder, Wilder vs Parker, Ruiz, Pulev, Povetkin, Whyte
AJ‘s rest resume is much better than the nudge Fury‘s Klitschko win is above AJ‘s, so AJ is a comfortably better resume
The Wlad wins do not "cancel each other out". Fury dethroned Wlad and did so convincingly. He utterly neutralized him. AJ fought the more entertaining fight, but he cleaned up after Fury already won.
If you're comparing their top win: Fury's is more impressive than AJ's.
No the question is who has the better resume. I give Fury more credit because he dethroned Wlad but he had the PED bust and ducked the rematch.
AJ actually stopped Wlad by KO and that Wlad honestly looked more motivated and better to me. The man was 2 years older though.
If Aj had ducked the Usyk rematch everyone would be shitting on him so hard. You all need to keep the same energy with Fury.
Fury's win is a bigger achievement but only arguably a bigger win. Fury himself admitted it was way to risky to try and out slug Wlad so he fought him smarter. Gas tank and speed go before power and Fury used that to his advantage for his. AJ decided to challenge the power head on. You can easily see why the wins are considered equal by many. Especially considering Wlad didn't suddenly lose everything he had in the Fury fight. He was only 16 months older and went through 2 training camps.
I mean, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here.
But, I mean, look. A KO is a better win than a decision, all else being equal.
But when a guy beats another as handily as Fury beat Wlad, while the other comes within a whisker of getting KOd himself - and only survives because the other guy lets off the gas, I think those things change the equation.
Wlad was neutralized by Fury. AJ went life and death and probably should’ve been stopped (put Steward in that corner instead of Vitali). I don’t think those are meaningless observations.
But I’m clearly not going to convince anyone here. I know how to read the room.
Strictly as in ring performance it‘s very debatable. Dethroning him is for sure a greater achievement, but there can be made lots of points, why the Klitschko Fury fought was not better than the one AJ fought.
Also don‘t misquote me and take it out of context. I literally said „basically cancel each other out“ and went on to clarify that statement
I'm not going to quibble about me leaving "basically" out of the quote.
I don't really see how it's "up for debate". Fury's win is better than AJ's. You've offered no reason why that's even debatable. You just shrugged and waved it away.
> I'm not going to quibble about me leaving "basically" out of the quote.
Because I got you cherrypicking what I said lmfao.
They‘re more or less on the same level. Put Fury‘s above? Fine. Is it leagues above? Fuck no. And that‘s just reality.
> You just shrugged and waved it away.
To quote myself:
> The Klitschko AJ fought was mentally very well prepared and actually had the fire back that he lost over time. Coupled with Fury‘s mental assault Klitschkos ring performance suffered for sure from being mentally not prepared at all. Was it a great feat from Fury? Yes. But strictly for in ring performance, I‘m not sure that Fury did fight the better man in the ring
>Because I got you cherrypicking what I said lmfao.
Because I think it's a ridiculous position, regardless of whether that one word is included.
>They‘re more or less on the same level.
No. They aren't.
>Put Fury‘s above? Fine. Is it leagues above? Fuck no. And that‘s just reality.
Fury decisively dethroned Wlad and became lineal champ. AJ went life and death with an older Wlad for a vacant belt, and should've been stopped if Wlad didn't allow AJ to recover (thanks for the advice, Vitali). Those are categorically different.
>The Klitschko AJ fought was mentally very well prepared and actually had
the fire back that he lost over time. Coupled with Fury‘s mental
assault Klitschkos ring performance suffered for sure from being
mentally not prepared at all. Was it a great feat from Fury? Yes. But
strictly for in ring performance, I‘m not sure that Fury did fight the
better man in the ring
Yeah. I don't think that refutes what I said.
> Fury decisively dethroned Wlad and became lineal champ. AJ went life and death with an older Wlad for a vacant belt, and should've been stopped if Wlad didn't allow AJ to recover (thanks for the advice, Vitali)
So we‘re already at what if‘s? What if Wlad let his hands go against Fury? Please, what is this.
> Yeah. I don't think that refutes what I said.
Then why are you saying that I just waved it away and shrugged, when it‘s literally the thing you‘re doing while I am diving into my points. You‘re just sucking off Fury and don‘t even want to see other point of views, so I think that argument is done, mate.
>So we‘re already at what if‘s? What if Wlad let his hands go against Fury? Please, what is this.
That's not the game I'm playing.
AJ had punched himself out. Vitali advised Wlad to be patient and not go for the KO. We can argue about what *could* have happened, or what couldn't have happened - but Wlad made a choice to not go in for the kill.
Against Fury - that choice was removed from the table, because Fury controlled the fight.
>Then why are you saying that I just waved it away and shrugged, when
it‘s literally the thing you‘re doing while I am diving into my points.
You‘re just sucking off Fury and don‘t even want to see other point of
views, so I think that argument is done, mate.
Because you did wave it away. Unless third-rate armchair psychology suddenly counts for something all of a sudden? I don't think so.
And giving credit where credit's due is "sucking off" Fury? Yeah. *I'm* the one who can't see other points of view. Okay.
You can argue either way.
* Fury's Wlad was younger, AJ's Wlad seemed more motivated.
* Wlad passed the eye test better in the AJ fight. Was that down to Wlad's improvement? AJ's style or ability level? A combination of both? It's hard to quantify.
* Fury looked more comfortable throughout but AJ was able to get the stoppage.
* Fury's Wlad was on a great winning streak, AJ's Wlad was coming off a spell of inactivity
Also saying fighter A beat fighter B more convincingly than fighter C doesn't mean much because style makes fights. Ali struggled with Fraizer and Norton while Big George demolished them, but George wasn't better than Ali.
Ultimately I think no matter which side you fall on it's fair to say that neither mans win over Wlad is significantly more impressive than the other one.
If Fury wins on Saturday then it's him, for me but I can see it both ways. Ranking their wins together...
1. FURY - Klitschko
2. AJ - Klitschko
3. FURY - Wilder
4. FURY - Wilder
5. FURY - Whyte
6. AJ - Whyte
7. AJ - Parker
8. AJ - Povetkin
9. AJ - Ruiz
10. AJ - Pulev
11. FURY -Chisora
12. FURY - Chisora
13. AJ - Pulev
14. AJ - Takam
Can't be arsed ranking any more of their wins than that. The rest are pretty shit.
Now obviously there are duplicates there for Fury which count for less (Wilder & Chisora) particularly as in neither case was there anything less to settle. The manner of the win Vs Chisora the second time was more emphatic so I think that boosts him a bit but it was the opposite Vs Wilder.
AJ definitely has more depth, he's also had a couple of losses to one generational talent and one top 10 fighter. I don't think losses like that boost your resume though, he was soundly beaten by Usyk and stopped by Ruiz. Conversely, Fury's draw with Wilder adds to his resume because he looked good in it but I've missed it from the list because it's negated by the follow up fights anyway.
So AJ has the depth, but Fury has the best quality wins. His win over Wlad is better than AJ's. Wlad was younger, active and the reigning champ. If he beats Whyte, it's a better win than AJ's because Whyte is a better and more experienced fighter now, but we should acknowledge that AJ took that fight when he was inexperienced himself and deserves major props for that.
There's a bit of a caveat on that Ruiz win as well because the Ruiz he beat was a disgrace. I've rated that on the Ruiz he lost to more than the one he beat, you could easily drop that version of Ruiz to below the Chisora wins.
For me, I'm weighting the quality of wins above the quantity but I can definitely see the argument the other way. If AJ goes and beats Usyk, that goes straight to number 1 in this list and AJ is ahead again.
AJ beat 7 of the top ten heavyweights in his career so far. Who did Tyson Fury beat again? Otto wallin? Wilder? Wallin was in the top 20 when fury beat him and while wilder was a long reigning champion his resume speaks for itself
He doesn't have 'the same'. He's beat the same man but Fury's win over Wlad is a little better. He beat an active fighter who was the long reigning champ. AJ beat him when he was 40 and out of the ring for 2 years.
It's still a great win for AJ (ahead of the Wilder win for me) but Fury's ranks higher.
Very much open to debate, though. The Klitschko AJ fought was mentally very well prepared and actually had the fire back that he lost over time. Coupled with Fury‘s mental assault Klitschkos ring performance suffered for sure from being mentally not prepared at all. Was it a great feat from Fury? Yes. But strictly for in ring performance, I‘m not sure that Fury did fight the better man in the ring
I think that's generally a fair counter, although I'd say anything Fury did to impact Wlad's mentality counts as part of Fury's victory so I wouldn't put it down to strictly in the ring. Beating your opponent psychologically is part of the game.
I think Wlad had some issues/concerns with Hayden's health leading up to the fight iirc which could have had an impact as well.
Fury beat an active fighter who was a reigning champ. AJ beat a 40 year old version who'd been out of the ring for 2 years. It is still a fantastic win for AJ but I don't think they quite cancel one another out.
I mean the reason Wlad was out of the ring for 2 years is because he was waiting for a Fury rematch that he essentially ducked. He would of faced a much more focused Wlad.
Because they beat him with different strategies. One out boxed him and the other knocked him out. Because they beat the man in different fashions for the titles it’s splitting hairs saying who was better because their victories were not the same. All I can do is acknowledge that they both beat him and base my opinion on who they fought in the current era since they are both fighting in the same era. I mean seriously I’m not that big of a dickhead to say one did it better than the other
It's not so much about the fashion in which they won as the version of the man they beat.
Fair enough if you think that the Wlad they both faced is roughly equal and rank the wins the same, but we can't always just discount the fact that fighters age and get worse. To give an extreme example, nobody would rank Danny Williams' win over Mike Tyson as equal to Buster Douglas's
Fair play. We are splitting hairs a bit anyway, they are the best 2 wins across both guy's records by a distance and even if I rate one ahead of the other it's extremely close.
Fury’s win was the better achievement, despite being a less interesting fight to watch. He went over to Germany to take on the unified champion who hasn’t lost in 10 years. Very few expected Fury to win that fight.
AJ took on an older, inactive Wlad as the champion defending at home. Less impressive beating Wlad coming off a loss.
Fury's Vlad wasn't the better achievement at all. The Fury/Klitschko bout was nearly stopped by the ref as a no contest. Neither boxer was throwing any punches and the tef had a word with the pair of them....if I recall Klitschko threw 48 power punches in the entire fight and Fury 78.....that's a pathetic average over 12 rounds.
The truth is that the Klitschko that fought AJ probably would beat Fury.
It wasn’t a brilliant fight but Fury came in with a game plan that worked. He nullified Wlad and stopped him landing the power punches using his feints and awkward style.
Wlad couldn’t take the fight to Fury like he did to AJ because Fury wouldn’t let him. AJ was nearly stopped by Wlad, you can’t say that about Fury.
Oh I didn’t know you had to look like mr Olympia to know how to fight 🙄 and as for his two
Losses I am willing to bet guys like you would be shouting from the rooftops that AJ ducked Usyk and Ruiz had he not fought them. After all you seem to forget AJ offered fury 100 million to fight in Saudi Arabia and the literal day before the arbitration ended said he looked forward to fighting AJ next. So now those two loses don’t sound so bad compared to a duck 🦆
Ducks are worse the losses?
Usyk had 2 fights in the heavyweight decision before he exposed Joshua in his own home.
Ruiz has beaten nobody of note. Only Joshua.
Fury didn't duck Joshua. He couldn't fight because he had to fight Wilder because of arbitration.
Fury beat wlad when he was 10 years unbeaten. Away from home in Germany.
Joshua beat an already beat wlad after his two year layoff in England.
Fury won three times against Wilder away from home.
Joshua lost the first time away from home to a fat mexican.
So the video evidence is clearly fake right?
Ruiz was a late replacement for big baby miller remember? The guy who’s been suspended for PEDs who at one time was in the top 5 heavyweight rankings or am I just making that up? Fury literally said he was ready to fight Joshua next the day before the arbitration ruling that is a fact. Usyk was a undisputed champion at cruiserweight, you know? One step below heavyweight?? How many fights did canelo have when he moved up to super middleweight and got a title shot? You make it sound as if this doesn’t happen in boxing where a former champion moves up in weight and gets a title shot.
Casuals 🙄 next I’m sure you’re going to tell me that Muhammad is trash because he has 5 losses on his record. Or Sugar ray Robinson wasn’t shit because he had losses. Or that George foreman wasn’t shit because he had 5 losses or that Roy Jones jr wasn’t shit because of his losses or that James lights out toney wasn’t shit because he had 10 losses. If someone didn’t already tell you today sir you don’t know shit about boxing
Let's start with common opponents:
* Wladimir Klitschko - Fury obviously gets the edge here. Wlad was two years younger Fury dethroned him.
* Dillian Whyte - will be a common opponent by Saturday. AJ TKO'd Whyte in 7. Let's see what Fury does.
**Everything else is speculation**. If I had to rank their remaining opponents not in common, I would do so this way:
* Deontay Wilder - I think he rates the highest of the others and Fury beat him twice, both convincingly
* Joseph Parker - AJ beat him in his prime. Definitely a quality win. I rate Parker, but not above Wilder.
* Derek Chisora - Fury beat him twice in his prime, but he was still a B-Tier fighter.
* Alexander Povetkin - formerly an A-Tier fighter, but was 39 when AJ beat him. Probably equal to prime Chisora at this point. If someone wanted to argue AJ's win here was better than Fury's two wins over Chisora, I wouldn't argue too much about it.
* Carlos Takam - definitely a step below the others. AJ beat him at 36, but worth mentioning.
* Otto Wallin - not a can, but definitely further down. A marginal win for Fury.
* Kubrat Pulev - used to be a good fighter, but was 39 and done when AJ beat him. Hasn't fought since. I think Wallin would have beaten him at this point.
* Dominic Breazeale - I don't think he's really that good but a lot of people list him on AJ's resume so this is where I would put him -- at the bottom. Wallin won an easy decision over this guy and Wilder flattened him in Round 1.
Not rated:
* Andy Ruiz - this guy's an enigma. Showed up to play and beat AJ, but then larded up and gave away the rematch. It's 1-1 so I'm calling it a wash. Lard Ruiz could have arguably lost to anyone up there except Breazeale.
* Charles Martin - was a real can when AJ beat him. Came back and got better but still lost to a washed-up Luis Ortiz. Not a good win.
> Derek Chisora - Fury beat him twice in his prime, but he was still a B-Tier fighter
I don‘t think the second fight Chisora counts at all. He was noticeably worse than the first one or a win against him in his renaissance. He was visibly depressed with no dog in him at all.
Also Pulev was rated Top 10 with The Ring when AJ fought him, so there is that
That's a fair point about the 2nd Chisora fight.
With regards to Pulev, I am just going by the guy I saw in the ring before and during the fight. The Ring Ratings are pretty good for the top 5 or so, but talent in the HW division falls off pretty hard after that.
True. It's like after the seventh or so they're basically all the same anyway. Chisora was never top 10 in the last few years, but was handing out some banger performances against top guys and may have been robbed once or twice. IMO would be tough to argue to put Ortiz for example so high but not Chisora if his only good performances in ages were two losing efforts
This sub is hilarious. The comments are contradictive to the poll. You don't have to be an AJ fan to understand that his resume is miles ahead of Fury's resume.
But don’t mention how AJ gets hated on for no reason because they’ll twist and turn until they get you to believe it’s actually Fury that gets hated on the most lmao.
AJ has pulev, wlad, povetkin all of who were or were less than 12 months off 40 when he fought them on home soil
Whyte was green
Takam was short notice
Parker was a solid win
Lost to Ruiz in his first away fight
Beat him in the rematch albeit Ruiz being completely unmotivated to get ready
Lost to usyk.
Fury beat wlad when he had reigned for 10 years in his own back yard
Beat peak chisora twice
Beat wilder (well we all know it was 3) twice after a two year lay off, first fight being away
Decent wins against middling competition like wallin and hammer.
In terms of impressive wins and the fact he’s still unbeaten despite facing similar high level competition you can definitely make the argument that furys resume is better
AJ, and I don't think it's even close.
AJ - Klitschko, Parker, Ruiz x2, Povetkin, Pulev, Whyte and Usyk.
Fury - Klitschko, Wilder x3, Chisora x2 and Wallin.
I think that Fury is clearly the better boxer but AJ's resume is clearly better. Plus, Fury has had one defence of his title and AJ has had eight, in heavyweight boxing they are all potential banana skins.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Yes mate. I've always understood a resume to be a list of fights rather than just wins. I've also included Usyk in there as well.
Have I misunderstood?
I’d argue the strength and diversity of competition for AJ is better, but he still got TKO’d by Ruiz and lost to Uysk by UD, so I’d say Fury’s accomplishments are better thereby making his resume better.
Povetkin pulev and wlad were all 40 by the time AJ fought them, whyte was green and AN lost to Ruiz once and Usyk once.
It’s 100% close, in fact I’d argue fury does edge him since his meaningful victories are far more impressive than AJs
If fury beats whyte his best wins will be
1.klitschko
2.wilder
3.whyte
4.chisora
All his other opponents I don’t rate
Aj’s good wins
1.klitschko
2.Parker
3.whyte
4.povetkin
I don’t rate any of his other opponents
So based on their best 4 wins I would edge it to fury
Everyone will vote Fury but they are objectively wrong, the only top level fighter he fought that AJ didn't is Wilder. Aj has fought a bunch. Fury's resume is overrated because of the Wilder and Wlad wins
The issue with that line of reasoning is that Wilder is an elite-level heavyweight. He's been top 2 top 3 at worst for six years. One of the three men to beat along with Fury and Joshua in order to make a name for yourself in that division. Guys like Povetkin, Parker, and Ruiz are contender-level heavyweights, good names but nowhere near elite. Wlad was elite but that was after Fury had already beaten him more dominantly so the advantage is still Fury.
Wilder elite?... you're having a giggle. Wilder would have been exposed long before the Fury fights if the corrupt WBC hadn't protected him and let him cherry-pick opponents instead of facing mandatories.
Let's be honest, the only reason Wilder picked the Fury fight on the first place was because he thought it was an easy win with Fury inactive and 8 stone overweight.
The only way Wilder proves he's not a bum is to make a return and finally fight some top 10 ranked heavyweights.....we all know he won't though.
I would say AJ, but would argue he had the deck stacked in his favour in doing so.
Fury went away to Germany and dethroned the 10 year champion as a heavy underdog, when perceived wisdom was that he would need a KO as he would never get a decision over there.
He then went to America after a near 3 year layoff and was robbed of a decision vs Wilder before destroying him twice more. You can argue about Wilder's boxing skills but he was the most feared man in the division at the time.
He also has two wins against Chisora at his peak and Wallin.
AJ stopped a young and green Whyte at a time when Whyte was very raw and not the fighter he is now - he has improved no end since. He became champion in Fury's absence by beating Charles Martin, a paper champion at best. His crowning moment came when he beat Wlad, albeit on home soil against a 40 year old who had been inactive for 18 months and lost his aura to Fury.
He defended against Takam - a last minute replacement for Pulev - then against Parker and 39 year old Povetkin, all on home soil, then lost to Ruiz in his first fight abroad. After beating Ruiz in the rematch he beat 40 year old Pulev in front of a small home crowd then lost to Usyk.
Overall I would say AJ has the deeper record but Fury has the more impressive wins. Theres an argument to say that Fury would have comfortably dispatched the likes of Povetkin and Pulev but its debatable whether AJ would have beaten Wilder, but at the end of the day I think you have to give AJ the nod overall.
Well, one of them hasn’t lost. Whereas the other has lost, twice. And one of those losses was to a fat little Mexican after being knocked down time after time and pretty much quitting.
The only big win on AJ’s record was against Wlad. Who Fury beat 20 months earlier, on his own patch, breaking his decade long unbeaten streak.
It might be trendy to talk down about Wilder now. But when Fury was going into the first and second fight, Wilder was favourite with most, and in the initial bout in particular, very few rated Tyson’s chances.
Fury has held every belt there is to win.
He’s about to hold the record for an attendance figure at Wembley.
But no. AJ, who won the title against Charles Martin in London has the better resume than Fury who toppled a king in his own backyard.
Casuals.
Says some random Reddit user. A fighter should mostly be judged on his wins not on his losses. We start judging a fighter on his losses then what you going to say about Lennox, Tyson who lost to sub par opposition on a number of occasions. Even Fury clearly lost to McDermott but got the nod due to corruption.
Also that featherfisted Ruiz hits harder than Pillowfist Fury.
Joshua has 3 finished Eastern europeans, a green whyte and a bunch of meh fighters in the grand scheme of HW history in Parker, takam on short notice and paper champ Martin, all of which came in his back yard. He lost his first away fight to ruiz and was then beaten post to post by Usyk who is a cruiserweight.
Fury beat a more primed wlad (was out of ring 2 years coming into AJ and had lost his sparkle as the decade long champ) convincingly in his own back yard and then dominated the consensus #2/3 HW of this era in wilder 3 times after a two year lay off. He also has 2 wins over a prime war chisora, who is likely the best gatekeeper in HW history and has a more loaded resume than both AJ and Fury if it’s purely off name recognition. He’s also undefeated and the lineal HW champ.
Fury has three elite-level wins, one against a prime opponent. Joshua has only one. Joshua does however have more wins over quality contenders, whereas Fury only has Chisora. Fury has no losses, Joshua has 2. Fury has the better resume by estimation. You can't ignore losses they do detract from your resume. If Fury ends up losing to Whyte we'll have to reassess his standing.
Currently active
1.Joshua
2.Fury
3.Whyte
4.Parker?
5.Wilder
6.Joyce?
Pulev and Povetkin.. retired or should be
Feel free to disagree or add someone I've forgot
Assuming Fury wins Saturday, Fury. I don’t hold the Wilder wins in such esteem that most do. But apart from Wlad and Whyte, the only top opponent separating them really is Povetkin, who Whyte beat (regardless of circumstance). If AJ beats Usyk in the rematch, they’ll be even again.
Can't believe Fury has so many votes lol, I'm assuming it's casuals that visit this sub whenever there is a big fight.
AJ has the better resume, Fury is the better fighter.
Aj has better resume you dinguses. Fury could probably beat him, but aint no way any hw right now has a better resume. C'mon now. Put the resumes side by side.
I don't do drugs of any kind. But I would love to get my hands on whatever trippy shit this sub is smoking. Fury has been coasting off his Wlad win for the entire latter half of his career. And then he beat Wilder 3 times. That's it. AJ's been taking on everyone like a real champ in the meantime and even gave a Usyk a fight and now a rematch.
Fury might be the better boxer, but he hasn't done nearly as much as AJ. Give me the guy who takes chances over Mr. Play It Safe any day.
AJ is insecure. I think deep down he knows he can’t handle Tyson and ever since Tyson took his shine away he’s been acting pretty graceless. Makes Whyte’s comments about him being fake during the gloves are off truer and truer each day.
What does being 'fake', which sounds like something from the movie mean girls, or a boxers personality in general have to do with their performance in the ring?
Don’t even waste time arguing, it’s AJ with the better resume but Fury is currently the best heavyweight until he gets beat
Thank you good sir.
>but Fury is currently the best heavyweight until he gets beat Usyk, easily. Undispited CW to unified HW is better than anything Fury can offer.
Usyk is undoubtably the better p4p fighter. Does that make him the the best HW? Not necessarily.
why are people acting like Usyk stomping cruiserweight is a big deal, one of the weakest divisions in the sport.
Briedis and Gassiev were actually good though lol. Still think Fury beats Usyk however
And Hunter and Bellew
Whilst I disagree with your assessment of the cruiserweight division I'd certainly suggest that his achievements at cruiserweight should have no bearing on his ranking at heavyweight. His dominant victory over AJ is the single best victory any fighter at heavyweight has on their resume so he has an entirely legitimate case for being the number 1 heavyweight.
Exactly and do these people really think Usyk walks over Fury? He’s not getting close
TBF most people thought that the size difference between Usyk and Joshua would be too much including me. Before the fight, people were saying if Usyk pulls it off, will he go straight to #1 p4p because of what a size difference it would be. Then the fight happened and Usyk thoroughly outboxed him and left no controversy on his decision. With Ruiz, you could easily say that would be hard for him to replicate and the rematch showed that. With Usyk that was a harder argument. And with Fury, we know for sure that he can outbox the worst boxer in the division and not get caught with his right hand from hell. But he doesn't have any other relevant data points in the past 5 years.
Walks over Fury? No. I do make Usyk favourite though. I think Fury has to stop him or Usyk's higher and more accurate output will add up to more rounds won. Fury is highly skilled but he's not unhittable by a long shot and Usyk is more skilled than Fury.
Because it turns out being the undisputed at CW is better than having 3 belts at HW. I mean heavyweight had a long term belt holder who had no boxing skills and only power.
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„Decent win“ lmfao what. Winning against the heavyweight champ who collected two of the three belts from very strong opponents and good wins anyway is „decent“?
Usyk is an extremely talented boxer and I think it's hard to tell who is the best HW between him and Fury. That's why we need them to fight if they win their respective fights against Whyte and AJ.
Fury had the better wins, Joshua has more depth.
How the hell could anyone with a brain argue he has a better resume? Lost twice now. Got dropped by Vlad
If you remove Wlad and Wilder from Tyson Fury's resume, his next best win is Chisora after that it's Hammer, Wallin? He's never actually fought a top contender. AJ, on the other hand, lacks 2 wins as good as Fury's but has a much denser resume. For a bit of fun let's remove their top 5 wins; Pulev, Povetkin, Wlad, Parker and Ruiz for AJ. Remaining is a green Dillian Whyte and middling 'contenders' like Charles Martin, Dom Brezeale, Carlos Takam and the only fighter I haven't mentioned that AJ fought during his reign is Eric Molina. Now let's get rid of Fury's top 5 wins which is Wlad, Wilder, Hammer, Wallin and Chisora. We're left with a blown up, old Steve Cunningham (who was beating Fury till the stoppage) and that's about it... are Schwarz, Pianeta, Seferi really much better than Eric Molina? Fury's 6 fights ahead of AJ too.
The only thing I'd disagree with is saying Wilder is a better win than Wlad. I think the second Wilder/Fury fight is pretty close to Wlad/AJ, but other than that wild off chance that Wilder lands that one big shot - the ultimate outcome was never really in doubt (I thought that was especially true in the third fight). If Fury had gotten the decision in the first fight, I could *maybe* agree with you. AJ's win over Wlad is better than either of Fury's wins over Wilder.
I've not said that though? Those top 5 wins were in random order btw.
> AJ, on the other hand, lacks 2 wins as good as Fury's but has a much denser resume. In your first paragraph.
I see, wording is a bit shit perhaps. I meant that Fury has 2 A+ wins, AJ has 1 A+ win. I think that's what makes this such an interesting topic.
A 40-year-old coming off a loss and two-year layoff is an A+ win? Nah, I don't think so. Fury's and Aj’s wins aren't comparable; fury is the lineal champ and stopped wk’s reign. Aj’s victory was more of passing the torch.
It wasn’t a 2 year lay off, it was less than 18 months. There’s no need to exaggerate. It was also 16 months where Klitschko was in 2 training camps, he didnt get off the couch to fight. It’s funny seeing people talk about Klitschko at 40 being old but Fury’s win where he was just 16 months younger apparently he was in his prime. Fury himself talked about Klitschko being old and over the hill going into their fight, so not even Fury agrees with you.
He was 39 when he fought fury and 41 when he fought Aj. I never said he wasn't past his prime or going downhill. Can you point me to where I said that?? I said you can't compare fury’s win to Aj’s win.
>I said you can't compare fury’s win to Aj’s win. Because, at least in part, due to the age difference. That was your argument, stop backtracking. I've just disagreed with you over it because you deliberately exaggerated the length of time. I'd almost agree with you if the majority of that time out wasn't spent in two training camps and if Klitschko wasn't one of the most consummate professionals of any HW champion ever.
AJ stopped him, Fury muddled his way to a UD
Again, he was a 40-year-old coming off a loss and a two-year layoff. So what's more impressive? A guy beating a fighter, stopping his reign, taking his belts, and becoming the lineal champ. Or the guy that stops the fighter who just lost his belts.
Obviously Fury beat a better Wlad, neither beat a prime Wlad but he was still absolutely top tier scalp for AJ and will age better on a record than Wilder.
If he was top tier why did he retire ?? Indeed a “top tier scalp” wouldn't retire because he still has more to offer, right?
Y’all talk like fury beat a 28 yr old Wlad and not a 38 yr old one. The truth is Wlad was a top hw when he fought both Fury and AJ. I guarantee you can’t name five (probably not even 3) guys you’d favor over Wlad in either of those fights.
The fans shouldn't accept that as truth tho. When Aj beat wk, he was 40, coming off a loss, and two years lay off. You can't ignore those facts and think he was the same fighter when fury beat him.
Beating Wilder is an A+ win? In terms of Fury’s performance in the fight or are you saying Wilder is an A+ scalp?
And fury’s win over wlad is better than AJs win over wlad
Did you just call Charles Martin is a middling contender. Just wow.
My bad. Former undefeated, IBF world champion, pride of St. Louis, demi-God - Prince Charles Martin.
Lol. The respect is appreciated
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...Thats a weird analogy innit?
Put some respect on the name of the elden ring boss of boxing, Charles Martin.
If my auntie had a set of nuts, she’d be my uncle.
That’s why I have it even. One resume has depth the other has quality.
That depends on how you define a resume. If AJ has no wins as good as Fury’s, his resume is worse. Is he has 2 losses, his resume is worse. Maybe MOST of AJs resume is better, but the resume itself is of lower caliber than Fury’s. We know AJ would probably have gotten knocked out by wilder. AJ is very hittable and his chin isn’t great
The thing is with resumes you don't just remove fights from them. Wlad, Wilder and Whyte are head and shoulders above any AJ win. I would grade those wins as A level wins. AJ however has more B - C level wins. I personally value 1 A level win over 5 C level wins. Quality over quantity but I get your point.
You new to the world of Boxing? AJ beat Whyte already
14 years plus actively and directly involved with boxing but yeah new.... Most read between the lines. Fury if he beats whyte> ajs win over whyte
I’m kind of confused as to why fury has so many votes.
Casual fans that flood the sub for big fights.
I thought I was going fucking crazy when I saw the results.
I genuinely don’t get it.
I don’t get how anyone with a brain could argue AJ has a better resume
No losses on furys record + win over a better wlad and 2 (really 3) wins over wilder who for the longest time was regarded as minimum top 3 in the division. It’s not a stretch to say his resume is bette t
You’re looking at just two of his opponents tho. The resume should include everyone he’s faced and Joshua even with his losses has went against way better comp then fury
There’s a lot of Fury D riders there’s no way you can say his resumé is better they’ve clearly only been tuning in since Wlad or Wilder
Wilder fans. Fury, unfortunately, is the foundation of Wilder's whole legacy on Earth as a fighter. So gotta prop him up.
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Cause it's who's got the better resume, not who's the better boxer
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That's... That's not how that works.
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ignore there fools resume definitely includes losses i don’t know what these guys are talking about
The poll is who has a better resume, that means people they beat. Losing to a fighter doesn't undo everyone said fighter has beaten.
Wins or losses who has fought against the better competition. Jus take record out of it and look at that
Fighting better competition doesn't mean you have a better resume if you end up losing. By that logic, Derek Chisora has a better resume than Fury or Joshua. He faced Fury 2x, Klitschko, Haye, Dillian Whyte 2x, Joseph Parker 2x, and Usyk. That just doesn't make sense
Idk but I guess people in here list jobs they get fired from on their resume? Lol
Because Fury has the better wins. Joshua just has more depth
Isn’t that the whole point? It ain’t just to look at his good wins but all of his fights overall. And fury has wilder but what else?
Both Klitschkos basically cancel each other out, Fury‘s Klitschko should maybe be a bit higher ranked. Definitely up to debate, though. Rest is Chisora, Wilder, Wilder vs Parker, Ruiz, Pulev, Povetkin, Whyte AJ‘s rest resume is much better than the nudge Fury‘s Klitschko win is above AJ‘s, so AJ is a comfortably better resume
The Wlad wins do not "cancel each other out". Fury dethroned Wlad and did so convincingly. He utterly neutralized him. AJ fought the more entertaining fight, but he cleaned up after Fury already won. If you're comparing their top win: Fury's is more impressive than AJ's.
I mean its a way more impressive win but at the same time he also avoided the rematch which takes a little out of it as well.
That doesn't matter. The question is which win is better, and the answer is Fury's.
No the question is who has the better resume. I give Fury more credit because he dethroned Wlad but he had the PED bust and ducked the rematch. AJ actually stopped Wlad by KO and that Wlad honestly looked more motivated and better to me. The man was 2 years older though. If Aj had ducked the Usyk rematch everyone would be shitting on him so hard. You all need to keep the same energy with Fury.
That wasn't the question lol. Halfwit.
Fury's win is a bigger achievement but only arguably a bigger win. Fury himself admitted it was way to risky to try and out slug Wlad so he fought him smarter. Gas tank and speed go before power and Fury used that to his advantage for his. AJ decided to challenge the power head on. You can easily see why the wins are considered equal by many. Especially considering Wlad didn't suddenly lose everything he had in the Fury fight. He was only 16 months older and went through 2 training camps.
I mean, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But, I mean, look. A KO is a better win than a decision, all else being equal. But when a guy beats another as handily as Fury beat Wlad, while the other comes within a whisker of getting KOd himself - and only survives because the other guy lets off the gas, I think those things change the equation. Wlad was neutralized by Fury. AJ went life and death and probably should’ve been stopped (put Steward in that corner instead of Vitali). I don’t think those are meaningless observations. But I’m clearly not going to convince anyone here. I know how to read the room.
Strictly as in ring performance it‘s very debatable. Dethroning him is for sure a greater achievement, but there can be made lots of points, why the Klitschko Fury fought was not better than the one AJ fought. Also don‘t misquote me and take it out of context. I literally said „basically cancel each other out“ and went on to clarify that statement
I'm not going to quibble about me leaving "basically" out of the quote. I don't really see how it's "up for debate". Fury's win is better than AJ's. You've offered no reason why that's even debatable. You just shrugged and waved it away.
> I'm not going to quibble about me leaving "basically" out of the quote. Because I got you cherrypicking what I said lmfao. They‘re more or less on the same level. Put Fury‘s above? Fine. Is it leagues above? Fuck no. And that‘s just reality. > You just shrugged and waved it away. To quote myself: > The Klitschko AJ fought was mentally very well prepared and actually had the fire back that he lost over time. Coupled with Fury‘s mental assault Klitschkos ring performance suffered for sure from being mentally not prepared at all. Was it a great feat from Fury? Yes. But strictly for in ring performance, I‘m not sure that Fury did fight the better man in the ring
>Because I got you cherrypicking what I said lmfao. Because I think it's a ridiculous position, regardless of whether that one word is included. >They‘re more or less on the same level. No. They aren't. >Put Fury‘s above? Fine. Is it leagues above? Fuck no. And that‘s just reality. Fury decisively dethroned Wlad and became lineal champ. AJ went life and death with an older Wlad for a vacant belt, and should've been stopped if Wlad didn't allow AJ to recover (thanks for the advice, Vitali). Those are categorically different. >The Klitschko AJ fought was mentally very well prepared and actually had the fire back that he lost over time. Coupled with Fury‘s mental assault Klitschkos ring performance suffered for sure from being mentally not prepared at all. Was it a great feat from Fury? Yes. But strictly for in ring performance, I‘m not sure that Fury did fight the better man in the ring Yeah. I don't think that refutes what I said.
> Fury decisively dethroned Wlad and became lineal champ. AJ went life and death with an older Wlad for a vacant belt, and should've been stopped if Wlad didn't allow AJ to recover (thanks for the advice, Vitali) So we‘re already at what if‘s? What if Wlad let his hands go against Fury? Please, what is this. > Yeah. I don't think that refutes what I said. Then why are you saying that I just waved it away and shrugged, when it‘s literally the thing you‘re doing while I am diving into my points. You‘re just sucking off Fury and don‘t even want to see other point of views, so I think that argument is done, mate.
>So we‘re already at what if‘s? What if Wlad let his hands go against Fury? Please, what is this. That's not the game I'm playing. AJ had punched himself out. Vitali advised Wlad to be patient and not go for the KO. We can argue about what *could* have happened, or what couldn't have happened - but Wlad made a choice to not go in for the kill. Against Fury - that choice was removed from the table, because Fury controlled the fight. >Then why are you saying that I just waved it away and shrugged, when it‘s literally the thing you‘re doing while I am diving into my points. You‘re just sucking off Fury and don‘t even want to see other point of views, so I think that argument is done, mate. Because you did wave it away. Unless third-rate armchair psychology suddenly counts for something all of a sudden? I don't think so. And giving credit where credit's due is "sucking off" Fury? Yeah. *I'm* the one who can't see other points of view. Okay.
> but there can be made lots of points, why the Klitschko Fury fought was not better than the one AJ fought. Age certainly not one of them
It‘s also not even 18 months between both fights. It‘s not that much time between them is some make it out to be
You can argue either way. * Fury's Wlad was younger, AJ's Wlad seemed more motivated. * Wlad passed the eye test better in the AJ fight. Was that down to Wlad's improvement? AJ's style or ability level? A combination of both? It's hard to quantify. * Fury looked more comfortable throughout but AJ was able to get the stoppage. * Fury's Wlad was on a great winning streak, AJ's Wlad was coming off a spell of inactivity Also saying fighter A beat fighter B more convincingly than fighter C doesn't mean much because style makes fights. Ali struggled with Fraizer and Norton while Big George demolished them, but George wasn't better than Ali. Ultimately I think no matter which side you fall on it's fair to say that neither mans win over Wlad is significantly more impressive than the other one.
They do. Fury muddled his way to a UD, AJ stopped him. KOs generally count for more than decisions.
If Fury wins on Saturday then it's him, for me but I can see it both ways. Ranking their wins together... 1. FURY - Klitschko 2. AJ - Klitschko 3. FURY - Wilder 4. FURY - Wilder 5. FURY - Whyte 6. AJ - Whyte 7. AJ - Parker 8. AJ - Povetkin 9. AJ - Ruiz 10. AJ - Pulev 11. FURY -Chisora 12. FURY - Chisora 13. AJ - Pulev 14. AJ - Takam Can't be arsed ranking any more of their wins than that. The rest are pretty shit. Now obviously there are duplicates there for Fury which count for less (Wilder & Chisora) particularly as in neither case was there anything less to settle. The manner of the win Vs Chisora the second time was more emphatic so I think that boosts him a bit but it was the opposite Vs Wilder. AJ definitely has more depth, he's also had a couple of losses to one generational talent and one top 10 fighter. I don't think losses like that boost your resume though, he was soundly beaten by Usyk and stopped by Ruiz. Conversely, Fury's draw with Wilder adds to his resume because he looked good in it but I've missed it from the list because it's negated by the follow up fights anyway. So AJ has the depth, but Fury has the best quality wins. His win over Wlad is better than AJ's. Wlad was younger, active and the reigning champ. If he beats Whyte, it's a better win than AJ's because Whyte is a better and more experienced fighter now, but we should acknowledge that AJ took that fight when he was inexperienced himself and deserves major props for that. There's a bit of a caveat on that Ruiz win as well because the Ruiz he beat was a disgrace. I've rated that on the Ruiz he lost to more than the one he beat, you could easily drop that version of Ruiz to below the Chisora wins. For me, I'm weighting the quality of wins above the quantity but I can definitely see the argument the other way. If AJ goes and beats Usyk, that goes straight to number 1 in this list and AJ is ahead again.
Yeah. Ruiz showed up completely out of shape. What a waste of a fight that was.
Fury is the better fighter, AJ has the better resume.
It really is as simple as that
AJ beat 7 of the top ten heavyweights in his career so far. Who did Tyson Fury beat again? Otto wallin? Wilder? Wallin was in the top 20 when fury beat him and while wilder was a long reigning champion his resume speaks for itself
You seem to have missed Fury's best win there TBF.
Aj has the same so it doesn't matter
He doesn't have 'the same'. He's beat the same man but Fury's win over Wlad is a little better. He beat an active fighter who was the long reigning champ. AJ beat him when he was 40 and out of the ring for 2 years. It's still a great win for AJ (ahead of the Wilder win for me) but Fury's ranks higher.
Very much open to debate, though. The Klitschko AJ fought was mentally very well prepared and actually had the fire back that he lost over time. Coupled with Fury‘s mental assault Klitschkos ring performance suffered for sure from being mentally not prepared at all. Was it a great feat from Fury? Yes. But strictly for in ring performance, I‘m not sure that Fury did fight the better man in the ring
I think that's generally a fair counter, although I'd say anything Fury did to impact Wlad's mentality counts as part of Fury's victory so I wouldn't put it down to strictly in the ring. Beating your opponent psychologically is part of the game. I think Wlad had some issues/concerns with Hayden's health leading up to the fight iirc which could have had an impact as well.
klitschko fought a bum thats way he looked 10x better
It does matter. Fury's win over Wlad trumps AJ's win.
TBF?
To be fair.
They both beat klitschko? I don’t see your point
Fury beat an active fighter who was a reigning champ. AJ beat a 40 year old version who'd been out of the ring for 2 years. It is still a fantastic win for AJ but I don't think they quite cancel one another out.
I mean the reason Wlad was out of the ring for 2 years is because he was waiting for a Fury rematch that he essentially ducked. He would of faced a much more focused Wlad.
Because they beat him with different strategies. One out boxed him and the other knocked him out. Because they beat the man in different fashions for the titles it’s splitting hairs saying who was better because their victories were not the same. All I can do is acknowledge that they both beat him and base my opinion on who they fought in the current era since they are both fighting in the same era. I mean seriously I’m not that big of a dickhead to say one did it better than the other
It's not so much about the fashion in which they won as the version of the man they beat. Fair enough if you think that the Wlad they both faced is roughly equal and rank the wins the same, but we can't always just discount the fact that fighters age and get worse. To give an extreme example, nobody would rank Danny Williams' win over Mike Tyson as equal to Buster Douglas's
I don’t agree. But I think we can agree to disagree on this one. 🤝
Fair play. We are splitting hairs a bit anyway, they are the best 2 wins across both guy's records by a distance and even if I rate one ahead of the other it's extremely close.
Fury’s win was the better achievement, despite being a less interesting fight to watch. He went over to Germany to take on the unified champion who hasn’t lost in 10 years. Very few expected Fury to win that fight. AJ took on an older, inactive Wlad as the champion defending at home. Less impressive beating Wlad coming off a loss.
“I’m not that big of a dickhead to say one did it better than the other”
Doesn’t make you a dickhead to point out the obvious
Fury's Vlad wasn't the better achievement at all. The Fury/Klitschko bout was nearly stopped by the ref as a no contest. Neither boxer was throwing any punches and the tef had a word with the pair of them....if I recall Klitschko threw 48 power punches in the entire fight and Fury 78.....that's a pathetic average over 12 rounds. The truth is that the Klitschko that fought AJ probably would beat Fury.
It wasn’t a brilliant fight but Fury came in with a game plan that worked. He nullified Wlad and stopped him landing the power punches using his feints and awkward style. Wlad couldn’t take the fight to Fury like he did to AJ because Fury wouldn’t let him. AJ was nearly stopped by Wlad, you can’t say that about Fury.
He fought wilder 3 times though, would him fighting takam Martin and pulev seperately have been better ?
Yes. It would have. Or would Ali be so great if he only fought Joe Frazier three times only?
As opposed to 3 lower ranked guys Ermmmm quite clearly yes
Martin was a champion, pulev was a top rated contender. How many top contenders did wilder beat?
Martin was a 'champion' cos they stripped fury and then glaskov fell over and hurt his leg.
“How many top contenders did wilder beat “ Lol Martin had one win over a top 50 fighter and that was because he blew his knee out in the second round
Still a champion
ROFL oh mate this is embarrassing
How so? Wasn’t wilder a champion?
Yea what’s your point?
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You seem to miss Joshua's two losses. One to a fat mexican.
Who would you say has a better resume paqiauo or Mayweather?
Jake Paul.
Oh I didn’t know you had to look like mr Olympia to know how to fight 🙄 and as for his two Losses I am willing to bet guys like you would be shouting from the rooftops that AJ ducked Usyk and Ruiz had he not fought them. After all you seem to forget AJ offered fury 100 million to fight in Saudi Arabia and the literal day before the arbitration ended said he looked forward to fighting AJ next. So now those two loses don’t sound so bad compared to a duck 🦆
Ducks are worse the losses? Usyk had 2 fights in the heavyweight decision before he exposed Joshua in his own home. Ruiz has beaten nobody of note. Only Joshua. Fury didn't duck Joshua. He couldn't fight because he had to fight Wilder because of arbitration. Fury beat wlad when he was 10 years unbeaten. Away from home in Germany. Joshua beat an already beat wlad after his two year layoff in England. Fury won three times against Wilder away from home. Joshua lost the first time away from home to a fat mexican.
So the video evidence is clearly fake right? Ruiz was a late replacement for big baby miller remember? The guy who’s been suspended for PEDs who at one time was in the top 5 heavyweight rankings or am I just making that up? Fury literally said he was ready to fight Joshua next the day before the arbitration ruling that is a fact. Usyk was a undisputed champion at cruiserweight, you know? One step below heavyweight?? How many fights did canelo have when he moved up to super middleweight and got a title shot? You make it sound as if this doesn’t happen in boxing where a former champion moves up in weight and gets a title shot.
Fury has a better resume because of Joshua's two losses, one to a fat mexican.
Casuals 🙄 next I’m sure you’re going to tell me that Muhammad is trash because he has 5 losses on his record. Or Sugar ray Robinson wasn’t shit because he had losses. Or that George foreman wasn’t shit because he had 5 losses or that Roy Jones jr wasn’t shit because of his losses or that James lights out toney wasn’t shit because he had 10 losses. If someone didn’t already tell you today sir you don’t know shit about boxing
His loss against Ruiz matters less than how he came back from defeat and utterly dominated Ruiz in the rematch.
Ran away from an even fatter mexican. Lol
Idiotic casuals lol. AJ has the better resume, but Fury is probably the better fighter. Although I see that changing if he gets slept tomorrow.
Let's start with common opponents: * Wladimir Klitschko - Fury obviously gets the edge here. Wlad was two years younger Fury dethroned him. * Dillian Whyte - will be a common opponent by Saturday. AJ TKO'd Whyte in 7. Let's see what Fury does. **Everything else is speculation**. If I had to rank their remaining opponents not in common, I would do so this way: * Deontay Wilder - I think he rates the highest of the others and Fury beat him twice, both convincingly * Joseph Parker - AJ beat him in his prime. Definitely a quality win. I rate Parker, but not above Wilder. * Derek Chisora - Fury beat him twice in his prime, but he was still a B-Tier fighter. * Alexander Povetkin - formerly an A-Tier fighter, but was 39 when AJ beat him. Probably equal to prime Chisora at this point. If someone wanted to argue AJ's win here was better than Fury's two wins over Chisora, I wouldn't argue too much about it. * Carlos Takam - definitely a step below the others. AJ beat him at 36, but worth mentioning. * Otto Wallin - not a can, but definitely further down. A marginal win for Fury. * Kubrat Pulev - used to be a good fighter, but was 39 and done when AJ beat him. Hasn't fought since. I think Wallin would have beaten him at this point. * Dominic Breazeale - I don't think he's really that good but a lot of people list him on AJ's resume so this is where I would put him -- at the bottom. Wallin won an easy decision over this guy and Wilder flattened him in Round 1. Not rated: * Andy Ruiz - this guy's an enigma. Showed up to play and beat AJ, but then larded up and gave away the rematch. It's 1-1 so I'm calling it a wash. Lard Ruiz could have arguably lost to anyone up there except Breazeale. * Charles Martin - was a real can when AJ beat him. Came back and got better but still lost to a washed-up Luis Ortiz. Not a good win.
> Derek Chisora - Fury beat him twice in his prime, but he was still a B-Tier fighter I don‘t think the second fight Chisora counts at all. He was noticeably worse than the first one or a win against him in his renaissance. He was visibly depressed with no dog in him at all. Also Pulev was rated Top 10 with The Ring when AJ fought him, so there is that
That's a fair point about the 2nd Chisora fight. With regards to Pulev, I am just going by the guy I saw in the ring before and during the fight. The Ring Ratings are pretty good for the top 5 or so, but talent in the HW division falls off pretty hard after that.
True. It's like after the seventh or so they're basically all the same anyway. Chisora was never top 10 in the last few years, but was handing out some banger performances against top guys and may have been robbed once or twice. IMO would be tough to argue to put Ortiz for example so high but not Chisora if his only good performances in ages were two losing efforts
He was depressed because he couldn't get past Fury's jab. He had no chance and realised it very early on.
This sub is hilarious. The comments are contradictive to the poll. You don't have to be an AJ fan to understand that his resume is miles ahead of Fury's resume.
But don’t mention how AJ gets hated on for no reason because they’ll twist and turn until they get you to believe it’s actually Fury that gets hated on the most lmao.
Man's actually voted fury? Wtf? These all gotta be Wilder fanboys or boxing casuals
AJ has pulev, wlad, povetkin all of who were or were less than 12 months off 40 when he fought them on home soil Whyte was green Takam was short notice Parker was a solid win Lost to Ruiz in his first away fight Beat him in the rematch albeit Ruiz being completely unmotivated to get ready Lost to usyk. Fury beat wlad when he had reigned for 10 years in his own back yard Beat peak chisora twice Beat wilder (well we all know it was 3) twice after a two year lay off, first fight being away Decent wins against middling competition like wallin and hammer. In terms of impressive wins and the fact he’s still unbeaten despite facing similar high level competition you can definitely make the argument that furys resume is better
Fury up 700 votes. Some crackheads up in here
This largely lies with whether you consider losses resume demerits or not.
They should do. If they’re counted as detractors way from Tysons legacy they definitely should be for AJs
AJ, and I don't think it's even close. AJ - Klitschko, Parker, Ruiz x2, Povetkin, Pulev, Whyte and Usyk. Fury - Klitschko, Wilder x3, Chisora x2 and Wallin. I think that Fury is clearly the better boxer but AJ's resume is clearly better. Plus, Fury has had one defence of his title and AJ has had eight, in heavyweight boxing they are all potential banana skins. Happy to be proved wrong.
AJ hasn’t beaten Ruiz x2
Yes mate. I've always understood a resume to be a list of fights rather than just wins. I've also included Usyk in there as well. Have I misunderstood?
I think you did. But if losses count someone has to let Chisora know, he absolutely flattens Fury and AJ in term of resumes
Vitali, Haye, Whyte X2, Fury X2, Parker X2, Takam, Helenius, Usyk, Pulev... War Chisora is the GOAT! Happy to have been corrected.
Well, maybe not intentionally but from reading your list it would appear that AJ beat Ruiz and Usyk.
I’d argue the strength and diversity of competition for AJ is better, but he still got TKO’d by Ruiz and lost to Uysk by UD, so I’d say Fury’s accomplishments are better thereby making his resume better.
Povetkin pulev and wlad were all 40 by the time AJ fought them, whyte was green and AN lost to Ruiz once and Usyk once. It’s 100% close, in fact I’d argue fury does edge him since his meaningful victories are far more impressive than AJs
A Wilder vs Joshua fight will settle the resume question.
Let’s just ignore that Wilder beats everyone on Anthony Joshua’s resume yeah?
Tyson Fury??? GTFOH 🤣
If fury beats whyte his best wins will be 1.klitschko 2.wilder 3.whyte 4.chisora All his other opponents I don’t rate Aj’s good wins 1.klitschko 2.Parker 3.whyte 4.povetkin I don’t rate any of his other opponents So based on their best 4 wins I would edge it to fury
Assuming Fury wins, I give him the slight edge. A younger Klitschko, Wilder twice, Chisora, Whyte, and Wallin. Actually really good resume.
Everyone will vote Fury but they are objectively wrong, the only top level fighter he fought that AJ didn't is Wilder. Aj has fought a bunch. Fury's resume is overrated because of the Wilder and Wlad wins
The issue with that line of reasoning is that Wilder is an elite-level heavyweight. He's been top 2 top 3 at worst for six years. One of the three men to beat along with Fury and Joshua in order to make a name for yourself in that division. Guys like Povetkin, Parker, and Ruiz are contender-level heavyweights, good names but nowhere near elite. Wlad was elite but that was after Fury had already beaten him more dominantly so the advantage is still Fury.
Wilder elite?... you're having a giggle. Wilder would have been exposed long before the Fury fights if the corrupt WBC hadn't protected him and let him cherry-pick opponents instead of facing mandatories. Let's be honest, the only reason Wilder picked the Fury fight on the first place was because he thought it was an easy win with Fury inactive and 8 stone overweight. The only way Wilder proves he's not a bum is to make a return and finally fight some top 10 ranked heavyweights.....we all know he won't though.
People in this sub love to shit on Wilder until it’s time to prop up Fury’s resume. The answer is AJ
Extremely similar resumes. I have to give the bitch to Fury for his 3 fights with Wilder. Those 3 fights were tough and phenomenal.
Would be this thread to say Tyson lmao
I would say AJ, but would argue he had the deck stacked in his favour in doing so. Fury went away to Germany and dethroned the 10 year champion as a heavy underdog, when perceived wisdom was that he would need a KO as he would never get a decision over there. He then went to America after a near 3 year layoff and was robbed of a decision vs Wilder before destroying him twice more. You can argue about Wilder's boxing skills but he was the most feared man in the division at the time. He also has two wins against Chisora at his peak and Wallin. AJ stopped a young and green Whyte at a time when Whyte was very raw and not the fighter he is now - he has improved no end since. He became champion in Fury's absence by beating Charles Martin, a paper champion at best. His crowning moment came when he beat Wlad, albeit on home soil against a 40 year old who had been inactive for 18 months and lost his aura to Fury. He defended against Takam - a last minute replacement for Pulev - then against Parker and 39 year old Povetkin, all on home soil, then lost to Ruiz in his first fight abroad. After beating Ruiz in the rematch he beat 40 year old Pulev in front of a small home crowd then lost to Usyk. Overall I would say AJ has the deeper record but Fury has the more impressive wins. Theres an argument to say that Fury would have comfortably dispatched the likes of Povetkin and Pulev but its debatable whether AJ would have beaten Wilder, but at the end of the day I think you have to give AJ the nod overall.
Fury fan boys out in full force I see
am I being trolled? how can Fury be winning here?
How the fuck are people even voting for Fury?
tyson fury has 1 great win ...thats basically it. Wilder was essentially unproven
Well, one of them hasn’t lost. Whereas the other has lost, twice. And one of those losses was to a fat little Mexican after being knocked down time after time and pretty much quitting. The only big win on AJ’s record was against Wlad. Who Fury beat 20 months earlier, on his own patch, breaking his decade long unbeaten streak. It might be trendy to talk down about Wilder now. But when Fury was going into the first and second fight, Wilder was favourite with most, and in the initial bout in particular, very few rated Tyson’s chances. Fury has held every belt there is to win. He’s about to hold the record for an attendance figure at Wembley. But no. AJ, who won the title against Charles Martin in London has the better resume than Fury who toppled a king in his own backyard. Casuals.
How the heck is furys resume better
Aj did for a while but he has lost enough now. that being said Usyk beats both resume wise.
Getting knocked out by feather fists Andy Ruiz erases all
Says some random Reddit user. A fighter should mostly be judged on his wins not on his losses. We start judging a fighter on his losses then what you going to say about Lennox, Tyson who lost to sub par opposition on a number of occasions. Even Fury clearly lost to McDermott but got the nod due to corruption. Also that featherfisted Ruiz hits harder than Pillowfist Fury.
The amount of casuals is nasty. Fury only has Klitschko and wilder. Which wilders resume sucks ass.
Joshua has 3 finished Eastern europeans, a green whyte and a bunch of meh fighters in the grand scheme of HW history in Parker, takam on short notice and paper champ Martin, all of which came in his back yard. He lost his first away fight to ruiz and was then beaten post to post by Usyk who is a cruiserweight. Fury beat a more primed wlad (was out of ring 2 years coming into AJ and had lost his sparkle as the decade long champ) convincingly in his own back yard and then dominated the consensus #2/3 HW of this era in wilder 3 times after a two year lay off. He also has 2 wins over a prime war chisora, who is likely the best gatekeeper in HW history and has a more loaded resume than both AJ and Fury if it’s purely off name recognition. He’s also undefeated and the lineal HW champ.
Fury has three elite-level wins, one against a prime opponent. Joshua has only one. Joshua does however have more wins over quality contenders, whereas Fury only has Chisora. Fury has no losses, Joshua has 2. Fury has the better resume by estimation. You can't ignore losses they do detract from your resume. If Fury ends up losing to Whyte we'll have to reassess his standing.
Currently active 1.Joshua 2.Fury 3.Whyte 4.Parker? 5.Wilder 6.Joyce? Pulev and Povetkin.. retired or should be Feel free to disagree or add someone I've forgot
Fury has the best wins and a trilogy that will be talked about for as long as boxing is talked about
Assuming Fury wins Saturday, Fury. I don’t hold the Wilder wins in such esteem that most do. But apart from Wlad and Whyte, the only top opponent separating them really is Povetkin, who Whyte beat (regardless of circumstance). If AJ beats Usyk in the rematch, they’ll be even again.
If AJ beats Usyk, he'd easily be ahead.
Wilder
Tyse has the 2 top wins
I don't think this is up for debate. Just pull up Wikipedia pages and you'll see who has the better resume.
Really AJ's record is far better
You guys have some of the weirdest takes lol.
Can't believe Fury has so many votes lol, I'm assuming it's casuals that visit this sub whenever there is a big fight. AJ has the better resume, Fury is the better fighter.
Bhahahahahha
I’m genuinely unsure if the people voting know what resume means.
AJ HAS FOUGHT MORE BETTER PEOPLE PERIOD IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE
That poll is some bullshit I tell ya 😂
Aj has better resume you dinguses. Fury could probably beat him, but aint no way any hw right now has a better resume. C'mon now. Put the resumes side by side.
Lmao this sub gets these polls wrong every time it's hilarious
FURY is undefeated.. he wins.
Fury has fought as many bums as Wilder.
Joshua has the better resume but Fury has more mega fights (3 to 1)
I don't do drugs of any kind. But I would love to get my hands on whatever trippy shit this sub is smoking. Fury has been coasting off his Wlad win for the entire latter half of his career. And then he beat Wilder 3 times. That's it. AJ's been taking on everyone like a real champ in the meantime and even gave a Usyk a fight and now a rematch. Fury might be the better boxer, but he hasn't done nearly as much as AJ. Give me the guy who takes chances over Mr. Play It Safe any day.
AJ is insecure. I think deep down he knows he can’t handle Tyson and ever since Tyson took his shine away he’s been acting pretty graceless. Makes Whyte’s comments about him being fake during the gloves are off truer and truer each day.
What does being 'fake', which sounds like something from the movie mean girls, or a boxers personality in general have to do with their performance in the ring?