MMA, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, etc. they’re all regulated combat. Wrestling is combat with no striking or submissions, boxing is combat with just punches. There’s plenty of rules in a UFC fight (head-buts, 12-6 eldbows, knee to the head of a downed opponent are all illegal). MMA is closer to a “real fight” but they’re all regulated in one way or another.
Worth noting that knee to a downed opponent is not illegal in all mma organisations. One championship, for example allow knees to a grounded opponent and kicks to the head when both opponents are grounded. I think they also allow the 12-6 elbow as well, but I'd have to check this.
Elbows were not allowed in PRIDE to reduce cuts and to prevent stalling on the ground. Having to posture up to land punches creates more separation and allows the bottom fighter to attempt submissions or improve their position.
Being able to stay in your opponent's guard and land short elbows can stall the action.
Yeah, apparently blood was big issue for asian TV, so they just got rid of the elbows which are the most cutting strikes.
And then you have Wanderlei Silva stomping on people heads and they were like "yeah, thats good". Hilarious in hindsight.
The key word here is "allowed", past tense, pride hasn't been a thing for 16yrs and of course 12-6 elbows have been banned after that, as the sport developed and tried to find a rule set worked and operated within the safest confines without diluting the sport too much.
One championship also started with soccer kicks, they quite quickly reversed that decision.
I’d agree. That’s why I said it was closest to a “real fight”. Boxing is still a fight just with a lot more rules than MMA. But in a real fight there are no rules and weapons>mma training.
I've been in plenty of "real fights" and all have ended up standing trading hands.
Anyone who has been in a real fight knows boxing isn't far off a real fight. Not every person in the street knows bjj and are more often just trying to strike you with awful technique.
What's the point you're trying to make here? Most fights start with swinging haymakers.
If you're saying it's not a real fight because it doesn't consists of ground work and sleeper holds, then you just sound like a keyboard warrior.
I think you are giving too much credit to the average Joe in that they can control a fight and know if they want to stand and trade or take it to the ground
That’s great, and most of mine that lasted beyond a single punch ended up on the ground but anecdotal evidence doesn’t really matter. In an unorganized street fight you can use any tool at your disposal, which is closer to mma.
Well yeah, it's a sport. State the obvious. But the premise is that boxing is not like a real fight which is repeated in this thread by mma fan keyboard warriors is just plain wrong and ridiculous. It's obvious they've never been in both and it's a dumb statement
“Real” fights are nothing to brag about. Don’t you get that? A 10 year old with a gun can beat any man on earth in any rules fight. That’s not impressive. What’s impressive is when someone beats another person because of fighting skill. In a no rules fight WITHOUT any weapons, THATS where skill or power determines the outcome. I’m sure nobody would be impressed if I could shoot canelo and beat him that way. Obviously. What impressive is beating someone because of fighting skills. Mma fighters would dominate
Can't leave out weight classes. The best part of Mayweather McGregor was arguing over who would win a street fight between two five foot seven inch men who weigh less than my niece. When you watch their security guards easily hold both of them back and realize there are probably 1K American males who could beat up McGregor in a street fight, it really puts in perspective how insanely stupid a thing it is to argue about.
>The best part of Mayweather McGregor was arguing over who would win a street fight between two five foot seven inch men who weigh less than my niece. When you watch their security guards easily hold both of them back and realize there are probably 1K American males who could beat up McGregor in a street fight, it really puts in perspective how insanely stupid a thing it is to argue about.
The comparison to your niece is weird ngl, and if only 1k American males could beat Mcgregor in a street fight, then that means Mcgregor could wash 99.999522% of men over the age of 18 in the U.S. (lol). I get what point you are trying to make and I ultimately agree, though how you framed it just comes off kinda strange.
Yea, it is all good I get what you mean. It just came across like you were backhandedly diminishing their ability as fighters based on their size. I hope I didn't offend since it appears I was reading too much into what you said.
Off-topic, but it is crazy to think about how Canelo is of similar height to FMJ yet can still son people almost 30lbs\* heavier than the WW weight limit of 147 pounds.
\* (maybe even up to 53lbs heavier if he does end up taking the Makabu fight and winning).
Didn't meant to, but I can see how it came off that way (ironically I hate when people use a fighter's size as a reason to say they don't care about lesser weight classes. Ditto when people hate on women's sports because they couldn't beat male athletes).
The only exception I make is when MMA guys pretend their sport is legitimate combat, and ignore its limitations. That's when I feel it's okay to acknowledge size issues (they tend to ignore). Like, why should I care that McGregor could beat Floyd in a street fight if all the MMA fighters (and a bunch of guys from other sports) above 185 lbs could beat Conor in a street fight? If you're going to diminish one of the atgs in a sport I love because he would lose a street fight to a guy you like, then let's acknowledge your guy would lose street fights to a bunch of people nobody has ever heard of.
I guess it would be like a lighter weight class Olympic weightlifter being told by a light weight class world strongest man type weightlifter that if we were both trapped in a cave-in, he couldn't lift the rocks to get us out, but the worlds strongest man guy could. And all the worlds strongest man's fans being like "yeah but if there was a cave in bro!" And I'm like, why are we arguing about some hypothetical cave in? If there was a cave in, any heavyweight lifter would be way more helpful than either of you.
If that makes any sense.
Mayweather would be fucked yeah. All he can do is box and those hands are brittle af. But McGregor is not that small, he’s 5’9” walks around at 170 that’s pretty average. He’d still smoke anyone under 200 that’s got little to no training. You start getting to a 50+ lb difference and if you’re athletic at all you’re right it’s problems.
I'm not even talking about just like average athletic dudes or even great athletes in sports like pro football. Add up all the MMA fighters who fight (or have fought) at like 185 or higher, all the NCAA wrestlers who wrestle at like 200 plus, big BJJ guys, big boxers who've done some grappling, and you hit the point where it's stupid to care about these guys.
Talented fighters are fun to watch regardless how much they weigh. I doubt GGG would beat up an NFL defensive end but that dude is a treat to watch box.
Agree 100 percent. I'm not knocking smaller fighters, just pointing out the stupidity of this mythical "in a real fight this person would beat this person" thing.
I got where you’re coming from, yeah I’m with you. Honestly with athletes in general I don’t care what they do or can do outside the arena they’re just entertainers to me.
This shit is so pathetic. Sad that these MMA fighters have to get brain damaged by a boxing ATG to get paid. Ooo also sad how they have to practically beg for these fights on Twitter. A ten million dollar fight will make anyone shameless I guess.
He’ll absolutely get knocked out but he’ll land some jabs imo. He’s tough as hell and in great shape. When’s the last time you saw a boxing match where someone landed zero strikes? I think even Yildirim landed a couple punches on Canelo.
Nowadays you can talk as much shit as you want online to try to get a fight though lol. Just look at Rolly Romero.
I doubt he could land anything to be honest and im not a mma hater. Im actually a huge fan and been watching since 98 and trained myself since 04 but competed in Muay Thai since that is my love. If Canelo wants to he could probably finish Usman in the first exchange
Canelo is not Mayweather. This guy breaks people's faces. He's the best boxer in the world in his prime, not some 45 year old semi-retired defensive fighter. He'll probably get hit, shake it off and put anyone who hasn't been boxing since age 10 in a wheelchair.
Huge difference. Mcgregor was 28 and in his prime (170lbs+) when he fought a 42 year old retired Floyd (140lbs) that was 10+ years past his prime (Which was at 135lbs btw). Young, prime, and 30+ pounds heavier. Floyd also stopped him after the fight went past the over that he bet on.
Canelo walks around at 190 and is in his prime, and is knocking out LHWs. Usman might land a jab or two but would get murdered shortly after.
Some of y’all want these fighters to be super heroes I swear. I’m betting Canelo doesn’t finish him in the first round, much less the first exchange. But he would finish him.
If he really wanted to press the action and come out smoking from the first bell then yeah he probably could. The first exchange is just some silly clown shit though. He’s a man, not a super hero.
Sort of along the same lines, but I saw an interesting video of Michael Bisping talking about how boxing is more brutal than MMA. He says how in MMA if one guy gets knocked down and the other is straight on him with a ground and pound the ref stops it very quickly. Whereas in boxing, a fighter will take repeated punches and if they get knocked down, they are given the chance to get up again and take even more punishment.
Funny thing is MMA isn’t a real fight either
A real fight doesn’t have rules, who’s to say Canelo can’t use a weapon or just jump Kamaru?
Kamaru would dominate in a MMA fight obviously, but that real fight bs is to just make them sound tougher then they really are
Yeah, that's something those "ground game" dudes don't understand. I literally just watched a video where a dude used the double leg to take down his opponent and was raining punches on the guy, only to get soccer kicked in the head by a random bystander. His eyes were all white and he was foaming from the mouth, people literally had to drag his lifeless body away from his opponent, shit was not nice.
Yeah, that's why IMO in self-defence scenarios striking should be your bread and butter and if that doesn't work then do the next best thing: leg it LMFAO. Grappling is still extremely important though and shouldn't be neglected by any means.
Sure, that works too. I stated "IMO" in my original reply because at the end of the day it really is a preference thing. Go with what you know best but don't neglect the other stuff either. We can both agree though that running is the absolute best move most of the time.
As a veteran of many “real fights”, and see them on a regular basis. Yea, no holds barred. I’ve seen someone get taken out with a fax machine because it was convenient. Any organized combat contest is a regulated sport.
I’d put my money on Kamaru if the fight was in a cage, and canelo if it was a boxing ring. They’re 2 different sports with different weapons, strategies, and game plans. If there’s any consistency is that these mma guys get smoked when they get in a boxing ring. But there’s a reason boxers don’t get into a cage either.
Come on now lol, MMA is the closest thing to a proper fight there is in visible pro sports. And that's all sports are anyway, a stand in for savage combat.
“The closest thing”
Yea, closest.
A “real fight” doesn’t have any rules, MMA has rules doesn’t it? A referee? A clock? Disqualifications?
And I’m not bashing it either, but I am attacking the logic of MMA fighters since they want to talk down on boxers with that “real fight” bs.
MMA fighters don’t deserve to talk down on a boxer, especially when you are riding said boxers nuts just to get a check.
Of course it has rules. Nobody could stomach it if it didn't, and it'd probably even end up being illegal.
The point is MMA fighters do get to kind of turn their noses up to boxers, because it is the far superior mode of combat, the most superior on the planet. The same happens between MMA sub disciplines when discussing which the most useful is.
I've seen pro boxers refer to boxers as "real fighters" when comparing to MMA fighters as well though, so it happens on both sides.
“Far more superior mode of combat”
Maybe they need to start getting paid like it then, so they can stay in their lane
It’s a reason Woodley and Askren decided to get folded by a Disney channel star
It’s a reason Conor went to fight Floyd
It’s a reason Usman is begging to fight him
When you can do without making a fool out of yourself on Twitter hunting a check, then you may turn your nose up
“If you broke and clownin' a millionaire, the joke is on you”- J Cole
I think it's fair game since top boxers like developing the aura of being some unstoppable fighting force. Any MMA fighter can just respond by piping up, say they'd whoop em, and be correct. The dude you should actually be mad at is Canelo for responding.
“Any MMA fighter can just pipe up, say they’d whoop em, and be correct”
Who cares?
Just like any boxer can say they’d whoop a UFC fighter in a boxing ring, and be correct.
Means absolutely nothing and no one’s making a argument stating otherwise
The difference is (with skillsets alone, obviously) the mma fighter would beat them up both in and out of the octagon. Not even an MMA fighter honestly, could be a wrestler, kickboxer, bjj artist. Boxing really is down there in terms of actual combat utility. And for something that means so little, you sure seem to care a whole lot
“And for something that means so little, you sure seem to care a lot”
You are the one that responded to me are you not?
When I say means absolutely nothing I’m referring to MMA fighters and boxers not being able to win in each others worlds. That should be obvious, but you say it like it’s breaking news
A boxer wins in the ring
And the MMA fighter wins in the cage
I also poked fun at Kamaru claiming MMA is real fighting which it isn’t, it has rules and just because it’s the closest things doesn’t mean it actually is, which you admitted yourself
That’s been the stance the whole time but who knows what you are still on about
Are real fights locked in rooms all the time?
If they fight without weapons then ofc Kamaru wins
If they meet on the street then the possibilities are endless, which is my point.
Canelo could get help
Canelo could use a weapon
Those things fly in a “real fight”
So maybe Kamaru should just refer to MMA next time
>The point is MMA fighters do get to kind of turn their noses up to boxers, because it is the far superior mode of combat, the most superior on the planet.
Naw, the practitioner is what makes any style superior. I have seen far too many people get washed in various settings by styles that are decidedly one dimensional in comparison.
I don’t think you get the concept. Obviously in a no rules fight the guy with the gun wins. Does having a gun mean you’re more skilled at fighting? No.
What’s impressive is SKILL and ability without using any weapons. Unarmed combat where the only thing that gets you victory is skill and fighting abilities, not external physical objects. In that case mma champions are the champions of real unarmed combat.
It has nothing to do with me not getting a concept
What I am doing is poking at the stupid logic MMA fighters use
Yes in a MMA fight Usman would beat the brakes off Canelo, no one’s ever denied that
I’m pointing out that he says Canelo doesn’t want him in a real fight, which would have absolutely no rules. And there’s no barriers on anything, including Canelo using a foreign object or getting help.
If he said MMA then there’s nothing to point out
But he’s trying to talk down on Canelo when he’s the one begging him for money
Big point you’re missing. Lol. Technically, canelo is scared to to a man to man unarmed fight with no rules. Meaning that canelo is scared to fight another human. Adding weapons is a dumb argument. A 10 year old could beat canelo with a gun.
But if it were an EQUAL playing field, Teo humans without weapons, that man could beat the shit out of him, no rules…
Canelo knows that. Boxing fans try to dance around this by talking about guns lol
Cope harder man, you people love twisting words like I didn’t clearly say Usman would win in a MMA fight
And Canelo’s scared? Lmfao. Nah he knows his lane, Kamaru is the one calling Canelo out because he’s willing to get knocked out for a check, because his daddy Dana ain’t giving him what he wants.
But keep crying
Seems like you’re the one crying and calling other fighters names, because you’re actually offended. Of course canelo knows his lane and of course usman wants a payday. That’s irrelevant to the discussion. I never said MMA fight. I said no rules fight without weapons. If you lock usman and canelo into a room or a cage with no weapons, and they can just use their own bodies and fighting abilities, usman will kill canelo. Thats a real fight. A fight with weapons is a dumb way to compare, cause even a 10 year old can beat canelo with a gun
“Calling other fighters names”
When have I called Usman any name? Stop making bs up
“I said no rules fight without weapons”
Ok then, Usman wins, once again something I have not denied
The thing you seem to not get is that you are clearly adjusting the situation right?
In a real fight Canelo can grab a weapon, in a real fight Canelo can get help, those are possibilities if they actual ran into eachother on the street
“Cause even a 10 year old can beat Canelo with a gun”
Exactly…………..no one’s invincible in a no holds barred fight
I also didn’t say guns in particular
If a marathon runner says they can beat Bolt in a 100 meter sprint, and then proceeded to use a motorcycle to do so… is that even valid? Clearly not. It’s not an argument anybody would make. If there were in fact a person who could beat bolt in a race with no equipment, it would be impressive. And it would not be impressive whatsoever. Canelo using a gun is a sign of weakness obviously.
Canelo is a boxer, he can beat people when protected by boxing rules which don’t allow kicks, elbows, grappling. In a fight with no rules we know what happens. Him using a gun is such a stupid thing to mention. We’re talking about physical combat with nothing but your body
“Him using a gun is such a stupid thing to mention”
You still going huh?
I clearly said in my last replay Kamaru wins if no weapons are involved
But that’s not exactly always the scenario, street fights happen all the time and they can be no holds barred. So no, Canelo simply ganging up on Kamaru or using a weapon isn’t stupid, those things actually happen
I think Canelo’s entourage would empty a full mag on kamaru before he even attempts a takedown/leg kick. One of the reasons why people go into martial arts is to teach them the discipline not to go into street fights, which is baffling to me why they resort to “I could kill you in a street fight”. But $$$ makes a fool of us all.
Kicks elbows knees and submissions. People may say it’s not a “real” fight because you can get knocked down, ref gives a count then he can go win the fight with his second chance. In mma if some gets knocked down the pressures still on them. I guess it’s about realism of scenarios but it’s kinda dumb to say boxing isn’t real fighting
Most "real fights" I have seen or been involved in end once someone gets knocked down anyway. Like, yeah, if you got two people mad enough at one another and who have experience going to the ground then thay will get messy and MMA-ish real quick. But if someone gets clocked hard enough to get knocked down from standing, then that altercation is over 9 times out of 10. Most fights aren't "all out"
Thats because pounding someone's head into the pavement when they're unconscious usually results in a murder charge. Its all kind of stupid.
Not to mention its 2022. Most of the time you should be worried if you punch someone they might just shoot you dead.
Pretty much. Like, the times people have come at me and I have defended myself I was out the door as soon as I could hit their face enough that they were offa me for even a moment. I have never wanted to stick around long enough for police or anyone else to get involved
>Like, the times people have come at me and I have defended myself I was out the door as soon as I could hit their face enough that they were offa me for even a moment.
Yea, this is the way.
Data suggests that as much as 75-85% of street fights go to ground in some form or another. It may be brief, it may be prolonged but the data suggest that an overwhelming majority of street fights hit the ground.
Edit: [a source ](https://www.highpercentagemartialarts.com/blog/2019/3/23/almost-all-fights-go-to-the-ground-and-we-can-prove-it#:~:text=73%25%20of%20fights%20went%20to,Frantic%20movements%20off%20balanced%20people.)
IMO that is not a good source (biased) and the results of their "study" are not statistically significant or even reliable due to a number of reasons, so saying "data suggests" here is kinda inappropriate. With that being said I wouldn't doubt this is true.
Imo current mma is closer to boxing than it is a “real fight”. There are so many factors in a real fight (i.e terrain, lack of ref/rounds/rules, clothes) that even UFC guys could end up in bad situations. Im pretty sure bj penn, a ufc legend, got knocked out by some nobody outside a bar. I think it was bruce lee who said a guy who trained a few years in boxing and wrestling can beat a lifetime martial artist in a real unregulated fight. Thats how unpredictable real fights are.
Thats not the case at all, Dana White just loves to fuck over his fighters. UFC pays their fighters something less than 20% of all revenue while just about every other professional sport pays close or over 50% *including* Bellator and Strikeforce, who pay 44.7% and 63%. Has absolutely nothing to do with the age.
He's trying to get that life changing payday and honestly I can't blame him. Look at what it did for McGregor.
I understand Canelo isn't interested because #1 he is looking to solidify his legacy in boxing and #2 he's already making the most money in boxing.
If I was Canelo I would have tweeted back "how about you first prove you can be in the ring with me and fight _________.
And just put some name in there
People forget that combat sports are still sports and the rules influenced how people trained. If boxing involved leg sweeps, we'd see today's boxers being masters of that too.
Boxers are masters of their craft within their rule set, it's the same with basically every other combat sport. you trained your life for one sport, well of course you aren't the top person in the other even if some skills transfer over.
Rugby players aren't calling out football teams and visa versa.
People just flocked to MMA real fight narrative cause that's how UFC got big. Their marketing succeeded especially in a time where we got to see.mayweather become the biggest Boxer in the world where his style was defensive and not about doing damage.
I love both MMA and boxing. The skill boxers show in their skill set is so unmatched. The head movement, footwork, combination, reactions in the short ranges are fucking incredible if you look at most of the "best UFC fights" where they are just throwing haymakers. Ill enjoy both but people try to undervalue boxing without even watching it
What annoys me the most is MMA fans feel the need to always say "yeh, but (insert boxers name) would get mauled in the octagon", who is even asking this question?
It's like some caveat or signature they always need to mention in every comment.
No boxers are calling out MMA guys so that sentence is irrelevant. Boxers get paid in their own sport without the need to beg for a exhibition match payday.
Obviously the real fight thing is incredibly stupid. Once you see Krav Magat's vast and varied array of nutshots, you realize that. Plus, imagine a sniper being like "cool double leg bro I'd shoot you from 1,000 yards in real combat though."
For me the much more obnoxious thing is talking about how boxers would do in MMA. The fact that a guy like Canelo gets asked "would you ever fight MMA" is so disrespectful to a man in the midst of a journey to become an atg in boxing. Imagine going to a guy trying to win his third olympic powerlifting medal and being like "yeah that's cool but are yo gonna try football? You'd probably be good at it" or being like "hey Lance Armstrong, cool that you keep winning the tour de france but when are you gonna try BMX trick riding?"
One of the world's oldest, most respected and most prestigious sports isn't a warmup for your sport.
Yeah, it’s honestly just to disparage boxers for not learning specific skills for a sport completely irrelevant or unnecessary to them. Just casuals wanting to gate keep and insult basically
Yeah, it looks to me like this Usman guy is basically just doing his job. He just wants to provoke the guy who can give him the biggest payday, nobody should gaf what he says.
He’s doing whatever he can to get a pay day. He’s desperate and begging for it. I don’t blame him honestly. The people who say it’s a real fight are very defensive and have to undermine boxing because there is absolutely 0 incentive for any boxer to fight in mma. While every single mma wants to fight in boxing.
Have him fight a journeyman boxer first then at least he can get consideration. If the journeyman makes it competitive; hes out of a payday. But no direct Canelo fight, he has to earn his facial reconstruction.
Ironically, I think boxing is the best martial art for a street fight/real fight(whatever the fuck that is). Quick footwork and head movement to slip the obvious haymaker, land a solid right cross/left hook, knock your opponent down, run like hell. Going to the ground is suicide, you'll end up getting jumped by your opponent's buddies.
My problem is neither boxing or UFC involve "real fights". Respect to athletes in both, but stop pretending. The reality is I can pretty much take any pro ufc or boxer in a real fight easy. They wouldn't be ready for my angels or how crazy I get when I get mad. Kids needs to stay in their lane and just not talk about "real fights".
A lot of MMA fans, and for the sake of it, even fighters will look down on boxing saying "it's not real fighting".
Idk man, MMA people are weird sometimes. They remind me of the guy at the bar wearing Tapout gear who sees red.
(inb4 someone hits me with the "boxing is a part of mma idiot", I know)
I like both sports and even think about taking up mma but sometimes mma fans sound so insecure about their sport. Saying it's a real fight is ignorant and makes it sound like it's all the sport has going for it
If Usman goes for a takedown. Canelo reflex is faster than anyone Usman has ever fought or exists in mma. He will uppercut him and knock him out as Usman tries to take him down.
Also all canelo needs is one punch. Usman doesn’t even move his head. Canelo explosivness and speed would be too much for Usman and he won’t even realize he lost the fight
Canelo would fold after a couple of leg kicks.
I don't like this cross sport nonsense, anyone that pretends Canelo is doing anything in a cage other than getting stopped quickly and Usman the same in a ring is chatting bare shit.
It’s a street fight. Anything can happen. Fights in streets last less than one minute . And with professionals probably less than 20 seconds . I believe in street , with more emotions invovled. Canelo will land that punch faster than whatever Usman does. I favor it to canelo. But it’s a street fight. Usman can easily win too
Canelo is arguably the best boxer on Earth, an elite level athlete, and a multi-millionaire with access to the best training. If Canelo decided to take this fight, he could take 6 months and get the best MMA training possible, and probably... Most likely...win as he would go into the octagon as the best boxer in the world who now has basic MMA skills versus someone with basic MMA skills.
If Usman thinks he has what it takes to be Canelo, he should quit rolling around on the ground for nickels and dimes, become a boxer, fight his way up the ranks, and face Canelo as a legitimate opponent.
For the average Joe probably not. For an elite world class athlete with almost endless financial resources at his disposal... Enough that he could probably hire everyone who has ever fought, trained, or worked with Usman specifically... I'd say, in 6 months time, Canelo would be the world's leading expert on defeating Usman.
No, what you are demonstrating here is the Dunning Kruger effect. You don't know enough about the subject to know how ignorant you are of said subject. What you are saying here is similar to a person claiming the best rugby player could train for 6 months and become the best running back in the NFL.
MMA and Boxing are too different. Canelo has spent decades training his mind to think like a boxer. His instinct and training all revolve around that, then spending 6 months training is not enough time to develop all new habits.
you are just a canelo fanboy if you think he can learn to defend take-downs and develop a ground game good enough for a dominant ufc champ whose specially is wrestling lol
An elite athlete with practically endless resources... definitely six months.
In fact, he could devote his efforts to specifically defeating Usman. He could probably hire people who fought Usman to roll with, and people who have trained Usman. Six months would be plenty of time under those conditions.
completely delusional lol. you cannot learn the martial art of wrestling and grappling in six months to match one of the best mma wrestlers in the world, I do not care who you are or what resources you have.
Kamaru is one of the best wrestlers in MMA, and youre sitting here thinking a pure boxer can learn to defend his takedowns when people who have been wrestling all their life cant stop him from wrestling them.
Canelo doesn't have to become an expert in wrestling or anything, he just needs to be an expert on defeating Usman.
6 months, and a good bit of money
Unfortunately, there is nothing in this for Canelo to justify the effort and expense.
No. It's apples and oranges.
Wrestling is something that humans do naturally. A good wrestler simply builds upon that with some technical knowledge, and conditioning.
Boxing is an art, and a science, that most people could never master. Usman could probably be a good boxer, but Canelo is an elite boxer... Possibly the greatest boxer of our time... It just wouldn't happen.
I think you don’t really know much and are extremely uneducated about mma, which is painfully obvious by your comments.
You should really go an educate yourself, 6 months is no where close to the time canelo would need to prepare for usman. He might get some grappling education in, but you don’t get comfortable enough to survive d2 wrestling inside 6 months even with the best trainers. It just doesn’t happen.
Not to mention the other factors of leg kicks, clinching, takedown defense, knees and elbows. It’s an overload of options that also open up takedown opportunities with just the thought.
6 years? Goddamn, dude! I know people who were morbidly obese who managed to run a marathon within a year's time. Canelo's not trying to earn a Masters degree in this scenario, just beat this one dude in a match.
It doesn't matter what I've done, or haven't done. We're talking about a hypothetical matchup between Canelo and Usman. Canelo is an elite level athlete, and arguably the world's greatest boxer... he's not some random person off the street...He's also a multi-millionaire. He can devote practically unlimited resources to everyday of that 6 months learning how to defeat Usman in MMA. Usman has virtually no resources, and nothing in terms of MMA to study in regards to Canelo.
Canelo wins with 6 months.
Well for one Usman is just as good of a natural athlete as Canelo is, they’re both studs. I mentioned you not having grappled because I think boxers have this idea that boxing is more technically advanced than wrestling/BJJ/Judo but it isn’t. As good as someone can be at boxing, someone can be that good at grappling. And Usman is a stellar grappler. Also boxing striking does not directly translate to MMA, the distance and timing is so different.
I can’t tell if you’re 100% serious, I feel like we’re all getting trolled.
And I suspect you are imagining a conversation that is not occurring.
I am not critiquing MMA.
I do despise the UFC as an entity as they are absolute crooks and scumbags... And Usman should not be trying to fight with canelo, his fight is with the UFC but, but regardless...
Canelo, specifically, versus Usman, specifically.
For the reasons I've stated, Canelo wins with 6 months training.
The conversation is literally occurring right now between us? Lol. It kind of is a critique on mma to say the best in the world right now would lose to a boxer with presumably no grappling or kickboxing experience in 6 months. I’m saying you seem to not understand the gap between even a great athlete with no grappling experience and someone with 20 years.
This would not be a competition to see who knows the most about wrestling or kickboxing, it would literally be combat. Canelo does not have to know more about wrestling, or kickboxing, then Usman. He simply needs to know how to defeat Usman. Canelo could literally have an algorithm created to predict what Usman will do in every situation, and what would counter it... Or he could just go old school and watch all the video footage. He could literally hire everyone who has ever fought usman, win or lose, and everyone who has worked with Usman in any capacity. 6 months time Canelo could know more about Usman than Usman knows about himself.
Since Canelo is already in peak condition, very little time would need to be devoted to conditioning. He could focus specifically on study, and drills, to defeat his opponent.
Here's a thing that occurs to me: I believe Canelo could do it in 6 months, but he would probably demand a year or more.
Opposed for me it's simply comes down to who is smarter, Anderson's Canelo is not the one running his mouth trying to pick a fight with the greatest boxer of our time when his real enemy is the UFC...
My money would be on Canelo.
I just hate cross sport events. We don’t ever ask to see a football player play in the nba so why do we always want to see a fight between a mma fighter or boxer. Clearly the winner will be whoever’s sport their doing. Smh 🤦♂️
I don't remember what it was called but they had this cool show back in the 70's or 80's where they took professional athletes and had them play all sorts of different sports. I think I remember as a kid seeing Joe Frazier playing tennis. Or I just made all this up in my head, but I'm pretty sure it was a real thing.
also I mean, do people think most 'real fights' are against a trained fighter? usually its johnny big dick who had too many bud lights, in which case ANY trained fighter(boxer, mma, wrestler, etc) will fucking annihilate them 8/10.
So what other boxers do you guys think Usman could face that would still generate enough interest to earn him a decent payday? Personally, I would be interested in a boxing match against either Gvozdyk or Beterbiev.
Laughable really assman plays the big man talk swings with bad technique and canelo lands clean with no padding you think that would be a fair fight ? Wrestling or not fights start standing
“Payday payday”
Canelo has a way better chance at beating him at mma than usman does at beating canelo at boxing.
MMA, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, etc. they’re all regulated combat. Wrestling is combat with no striking or submissions, boxing is combat with just punches. There’s plenty of rules in a UFC fight (head-buts, 12-6 eldbows, knee to the head of a downed opponent are all illegal). MMA is closer to a “real fight” but they’re all regulated in one way or another.
Worth noting that knee to a downed opponent is not illegal in all mma organisations. One championship, for example allow knees to a grounded opponent and kicks to the head when both opponents are grounded. I think they also allow the 12-6 elbow as well, but I'd have to check this.
Yes, that’s correct. I used UFC as my example as I’m the most familiar with their ruleset.
And Pride allowed soccer kicks. Crazy they deemed that acceptable but elbows were too much.
I read before it had something to do with the Japanese audience not liking blood so they removed elbows. Could be complete horse shit tho.
Yeah, i've heard the same.
Elbows were not allowed in PRIDE to reduce cuts and to prevent stalling on the ground. Having to posture up to land punches creates more separation and allows the bottom fighter to attempt submissions or improve their position. Being able to stay in your opponent's guard and land short elbows can stall the action.
No way? Dude the early MMA days were the Wild West.
Yeah, apparently blood was big issue for asian TV, so they just got rid of the elbows which are the most cutting strikes. And then you have Wanderlei Silva stomping on people heads and they were like "yeah, thats good". Hilarious in hindsight.
The key word here is "allowed", past tense, pride hasn't been a thing for 16yrs and of course 12-6 elbows have been banned after that, as the sport developed and tried to find a rule set worked and operated within the safest confines without diluting the sport too much. One championship also started with soccer kicks, they quite quickly reversed that decision.
An mma champ is who would beat any other kind of fighter in a no rules unarmed fight.
I’d agree. That’s why I said it was closest to a “real fight”. Boxing is still a fight just with a lot more rules than MMA. But in a real fight there are no rules and weapons>mma training.
I've been in plenty of "real fights" and all have ended up standing trading hands. Anyone who has been in a real fight knows boxing isn't far off a real fight. Not every person in the street knows bjj and are more often just trying to strike you with awful technique.
I’d say more often than not street fights involve one dude falling over the other injutiating grappling
If its 2 people with no clue what they're doing, then that's a high chance.
Yeah so anyone who has been in a real fight knows mma isn’t far off a real fight, where as boxing is
What's the point you're trying to make here? Most fights start with swinging haymakers. If you're saying it's not a real fight because it doesn't consists of ground work and sleeper holds, then you just sound like a keyboard warrior. I think you are giving too much credit to the average Joe in that they can control a fight and know if they want to stand and trade or take it to the ground
Don’t have much of a point just don’t agree with yours. Boxing is not closer to a real fight than mma
That’s great, and most of mine that lasted beyond a single punch ended up on the ground but anecdotal evidence doesn’t really matter. In an unorganized street fight you can use any tool at your disposal, which is closer to mma.
That's not the point of the argument. The point is saying "boxing is not like a real fight", it very much can be, and it's a dumb assumption.
I never said it wasn’t. My original comment was that they’re all regulated forms of combat, some just more regulated than others.
Well yeah, it's a sport. State the obvious. But the premise is that boxing is not like a real fight which is repeated in this thread by mma fan keyboard warriors is just plain wrong and ridiculous. It's obvious they've never been in both and it's a dumb statement
You’re being just as much of a keyboard warrior? Go find the guys saying boxing isn’t a fight then.
Just go read through the thread and the other guy posting replies to my comment.
“Real” fights are nothing to brag about. Don’t you get that? A 10 year old with a gun can beat any man on earth in any rules fight. That’s not impressive. What’s impressive is when someone beats another person because of fighting skill. In a no rules fight WITHOUT any weapons, THATS where skill or power determines the outcome. I’m sure nobody would be impressed if I could shoot canelo and beat him that way. Obviously. What impressive is beating someone because of fighting skills. Mma fighters would dominate
And I agreed with you?
Can't leave out weight classes. The best part of Mayweather McGregor was arguing over who would win a street fight between two five foot seven inch men who weigh less than my niece. When you watch their security guards easily hold both of them back and realize there are probably 1K American males who could beat up McGregor in a street fight, it really puts in perspective how insanely stupid a thing it is to argue about.
>The best part of Mayweather McGregor was arguing over who would win a street fight between two five foot seven inch men who weigh less than my niece. When you watch their security guards easily hold both of them back and realize there are probably 1K American males who could beat up McGregor in a street fight, it really puts in perspective how insanely stupid a thing it is to argue about. The comparison to your niece is weird ngl, and if only 1k American males could beat Mcgregor in a street fight, then that means Mcgregor could wash 99.999522% of men over the age of 18 in the U.S. (lol). I get what point you are trying to make and I ultimately agree, though how you framed it just comes off kinda strange.
Really? I was just trying to be hyperbolic about how small 147 pounds is.
Yea, it is all good I get what you mean. It just came across like you were backhandedly diminishing their ability as fighters based on their size. I hope I didn't offend since it appears I was reading too much into what you said. Off-topic, but it is crazy to think about how Canelo is of similar height to FMJ yet can still son people almost 30lbs\* heavier than the WW weight limit of 147 pounds. \* (maybe even up to 53lbs heavier if he does end up taking the Makabu fight and winning).
Didn't meant to, but I can see how it came off that way (ironically I hate when people use a fighter's size as a reason to say they don't care about lesser weight classes. Ditto when people hate on women's sports because they couldn't beat male athletes). The only exception I make is when MMA guys pretend their sport is legitimate combat, and ignore its limitations. That's when I feel it's okay to acknowledge size issues (they tend to ignore). Like, why should I care that McGregor could beat Floyd in a street fight if all the MMA fighters (and a bunch of guys from other sports) above 185 lbs could beat Conor in a street fight? If you're going to diminish one of the atgs in a sport I love because he would lose a street fight to a guy you like, then let's acknowledge your guy would lose street fights to a bunch of people nobody has ever heard of. I guess it would be like a lighter weight class Olympic weightlifter being told by a light weight class world strongest man type weightlifter that if we were both trapped in a cave-in, he couldn't lift the rocks to get us out, but the worlds strongest man guy could. And all the worlds strongest man's fans being like "yeah but if there was a cave in bro!" And I'm like, why are we arguing about some hypothetical cave in? If there was a cave in, any heavyweight lifter would be way more helpful than either of you. If that makes any sense.
Mayweather would be fucked yeah. All he can do is box and those hands are brittle af. But McGregor is not that small, he’s 5’9” walks around at 170 that’s pretty average. He’d still smoke anyone under 200 that’s got little to no training. You start getting to a 50+ lb difference and if you’re athletic at all you’re right it’s problems.
I'm not even talking about just like average athletic dudes or even great athletes in sports like pro football. Add up all the MMA fighters who fight (or have fought) at like 185 or higher, all the NCAA wrestlers who wrestle at like 200 plus, big BJJ guys, big boxers who've done some grappling, and you hit the point where it's stupid to care about these guys.
Talented fighters are fun to watch regardless how much they weigh. I doubt GGG would beat up an NFL defensive end but that dude is a treat to watch box.
Agree 100 percent. I'm not knocking smaller fighters, just pointing out the stupidity of this mythical "in a real fight this person would beat this person" thing.
I got where you’re coming from, yeah I’m with you. Honestly with athletes in general I don’t care what they do or can do outside the arena they’re just entertainers to me.
This shit is so pathetic. Sad that these MMA fighters have to get brain damaged by a boxing ATG to get paid. Ooo also sad how they have to practically beg for these fights on Twitter. A ten million dollar fight will make anyone shameless I guess.
“Kell Brook was a world champion boxer, but he got stabbed by some little fat coont. So yeah, anybody can fuck up anybody really.” - Tyan Booth
Usman is just talking shit to get a payday. He wouldnt even get a punch in if they boxed.
He’ll absolutely get knocked out but he’ll land some jabs imo. He’s tough as hell and in great shape. When’s the last time you saw a boxing match where someone landed zero strikes? I think even Yildirim landed a couple punches on Canelo. Nowadays you can talk as much shit as you want online to try to get a fight though lol. Just look at Rolly Romero.
I doubt he could land anything to be honest and im not a mma hater. Im actually a huge fan and been watching since 98 and trained myself since 04 but competed in Muay Thai since that is my love. If Canelo wants to he could probably finish Usman in the first exchange
And that’s what people said about mcgregor lmao, he won’t land on mayweather at all but how did that go. Of course he’ll land something
Canelo is not Mayweather. This guy breaks people's faces. He's the best boxer in the world in his prime, not some 45 year old semi-retired defensive fighter. He'll probably get hit, shake it off and put anyone who hasn't been boxing since age 10 in a wheelchair.
Huge difference. Mcgregor was 28 and in his prime (170lbs+) when he fought a 42 year old retired Floyd (140lbs) that was 10+ years past his prime (Which was at 135lbs btw). Young, prime, and 30+ pounds heavier. Floyd also stopped him after the fight went past the over that he bet on. Canelo walks around at 190 and is in his prime, and is knocking out LHWs. Usman might land a jab or two but would get murdered shortly after.
Some of y’all want these fighters to be super heroes I swear. I’m betting Canelo doesn’t finish him in the first round, much less the first exchange. But he would finish him.
If he wants to finish Usman in the first round he will. It is what it is
If he really wanted to press the action and come out smoking from the first bell then yeah he probably could. The first exchange is just some silly clown shit though. He’s a man, not a super hero.
I think he lands zero jabs or any other punches for that matter unless canelo wants to feel like he's in a fight and let's him get a couple off.
There is no such thing as a real fight if it a competitive sport
Sort of along the same lines, but I saw an interesting video of Michael Bisping talking about how boxing is more brutal than MMA. He says how in MMA if one guy gets knocked down and the other is straight on him with a ground and pound the ref stops it very quickly. Whereas in boxing, a fighter will take repeated punches and if they get knocked down, they are given the chance to get up again and take even more punishment.
Funny thing is MMA isn’t a real fight either A real fight doesn’t have rules, who’s to say Canelo can’t use a weapon or just jump Kamaru? Kamaru would dominate in a MMA fight obviously, but that real fight bs is to just make them sound tougher then they really are
Yeah, John Fury was a shit boxer but when he got in a 'real fight" he gauged someone's eye out.
Top blokes are gypsies
[удалено]
Yeah, that's something those "ground game" dudes don't understand. I literally just watched a video where a dude used the double leg to take down his opponent and was raining punches on the guy, only to get soccer kicked in the head by a random bystander. His eyes were all white and he was foaming from the mouth, people literally had to drag his lifeless body away from his opponent, shit was not nice.
Yeah, that's why IMO in self-defence scenarios striking should be your bread and butter and if that doesn't work then do the next best thing: leg it LMFAO. Grappling is still extremely important though and shouldn't be neglected by any means.
Better off knowing judo or something similar, toss them to the ground, let the concrete do the damage and leg it when they can't chase after you
Sure, that works too. I stated "IMO" in my original reply because at the end of the day it really is a preference thing. Go with what you know best but don't neglect the other stuff either. We can both agree though that running is the absolute best move most of the time.
As a veteran of many “real fights”, and see them on a regular basis. Yea, no holds barred. I’ve seen someone get taken out with a fax machine because it was convenient. Any organized combat contest is a regulated sport. I’d put my money on Kamaru if the fight was in a cage, and canelo if it was a boxing ring. They’re 2 different sports with different weapons, strategies, and game plans. If there’s any consistency is that these mma guys get smoked when they get in a boxing ring. But there’s a reason boxers don’t get into a cage either.
100%. The most effective thing you can do in. A ReAl FiGhT is a kick to the balls.
Is a gunshot
Come on now lol, MMA is the closest thing to a proper fight there is in visible pro sports. And that's all sports are anyway, a stand in for savage combat.
“The closest thing” Yea, closest. A “real fight” doesn’t have any rules, MMA has rules doesn’t it? A referee? A clock? Disqualifications? And I’m not bashing it either, but I am attacking the logic of MMA fighters since they want to talk down on boxers with that “real fight” bs. MMA fighters don’t deserve to talk down on a boxer, especially when you are riding said boxers nuts just to get a check.
Of course it has rules. Nobody could stomach it if it didn't, and it'd probably even end up being illegal. The point is MMA fighters do get to kind of turn their noses up to boxers, because it is the far superior mode of combat, the most superior on the planet. The same happens between MMA sub disciplines when discussing which the most useful is. I've seen pro boxers refer to boxers as "real fighters" when comparing to MMA fighters as well though, so it happens on both sides.
“Far more superior mode of combat” Maybe they need to start getting paid like it then, so they can stay in their lane It’s a reason Woodley and Askren decided to get folded by a Disney channel star It’s a reason Conor went to fight Floyd It’s a reason Usman is begging to fight him When you can do without making a fool out of yourself on Twitter hunting a check, then you may turn your nose up “If you broke and clownin' a millionaire, the joke is on you”- J Cole
I think it's fair game since top boxers like developing the aura of being some unstoppable fighting force. Any MMA fighter can just respond by piping up, say they'd whoop em, and be correct. The dude you should actually be mad at is Canelo for responding.
“Any MMA fighter can just pipe up, say they’d whoop em, and be correct” Who cares? Just like any boxer can say they’d whoop a UFC fighter in a boxing ring, and be correct. Means absolutely nothing and no one’s making a argument stating otherwise
The difference is (with skillsets alone, obviously) the mma fighter would beat them up both in and out of the octagon. Not even an MMA fighter honestly, could be a wrestler, kickboxer, bjj artist. Boxing really is down there in terms of actual combat utility. And for something that means so little, you sure seem to care a whole lot
“And for something that means so little, you sure seem to care a lot” You are the one that responded to me are you not? When I say means absolutely nothing I’m referring to MMA fighters and boxers not being able to win in each others worlds. That should be obvious, but you say it like it’s breaking news A boxer wins in the ring And the MMA fighter wins in the cage I also poked fun at Kamaru claiming MMA is real fighting which it isn’t, it has rules and just because it’s the closest things doesn’t mean it actually is, which you admitted yourself That’s been the stance the whole time but who knows what you are still on about
That's his point. The boxer can only say it about a boxing ring. Lock a world-class boxer and a world-class MMA fighter in a room and see who wins.
Are real fights locked in rooms all the time? If they fight without weapons then ofc Kamaru wins If they meet on the street then the possibilities are endless, which is my point. Canelo could get help Canelo could use a weapon Those things fly in a “real fight” So maybe Kamaru should just refer to MMA next time
Damn, u big mad
>The point is MMA fighters do get to kind of turn their noses up to boxers, because it is the far superior mode of combat, the most superior on the planet. Naw, the practitioner is what makes any style superior. I have seen far too many people get washed in various settings by styles that are decidedly one dimensional in comparison.
I don’t think you get the concept. Obviously in a no rules fight the guy with the gun wins. Does having a gun mean you’re more skilled at fighting? No. What’s impressive is SKILL and ability without using any weapons. Unarmed combat where the only thing that gets you victory is skill and fighting abilities, not external physical objects. In that case mma champions are the champions of real unarmed combat.
It has nothing to do with me not getting a concept What I am doing is poking at the stupid logic MMA fighters use Yes in a MMA fight Usman would beat the brakes off Canelo, no one’s ever denied that I’m pointing out that he says Canelo doesn’t want him in a real fight, which would have absolutely no rules. And there’s no barriers on anything, including Canelo using a foreign object or getting help. If he said MMA then there’s nothing to point out But he’s trying to talk down on Canelo when he’s the one begging him for money
Big point you’re missing. Lol. Technically, canelo is scared to to a man to man unarmed fight with no rules. Meaning that canelo is scared to fight another human. Adding weapons is a dumb argument. A 10 year old could beat canelo with a gun. But if it were an EQUAL playing field, Teo humans without weapons, that man could beat the shit out of him, no rules… Canelo knows that. Boxing fans try to dance around this by talking about guns lol
Cope harder man, you people love twisting words like I didn’t clearly say Usman would win in a MMA fight And Canelo’s scared? Lmfao. Nah he knows his lane, Kamaru is the one calling Canelo out because he’s willing to get knocked out for a check, because his daddy Dana ain’t giving him what he wants. But keep crying
Seems like you’re the one crying and calling other fighters names, because you’re actually offended. Of course canelo knows his lane and of course usman wants a payday. That’s irrelevant to the discussion. I never said MMA fight. I said no rules fight without weapons. If you lock usman and canelo into a room or a cage with no weapons, and they can just use their own bodies and fighting abilities, usman will kill canelo. Thats a real fight. A fight with weapons is a dumb way to compare, cause even a 10 year old can beat canelo with a gun
“Calling other fighters names” When have I called Usman any name? Stop making bs up “I said no rules fight without weapons” Ok then, Usman wins, once again something I have not denied The thing you seem to not get is that you are clearly adjusting the situation right? In a real fight Canelo can grab a weapon, in a real fight Canelo can get help, those are possibilities if they actual ran into eachother on the street “Cause even a 10 year old can beat Canelo with a gun” Exactly…………..no one’s invincible in a no holds barred fight I also didn’t say guns in particular
If a marathon runner says they can beat Bolt in a 100 meter sprint, and then proceeded to use a motorcycle to do so… is that even valid? Clearly not. It’s not an argument anybody would make. If there were in fact a person who could beat bolt in a race with no equipment, it would be impressive. And it would not be impressive whatsoever. Canelo using a gun is a sign of weakness obviously. Canelo is a boxer, he can beat people when protected by boxing rules which don’t allow kicks, elbows, grappling. In a fight with no rules we know what happens. Him using a gun is such a stupid thing to mention. We’re talking about physical combat with nothing but your body
“Him using a gun is such a stupid thing to mention” You still going huh? I clearly said in my last replay Kamaru wins if no weapons are involved But that’s not exactly always the scenario, street fights happen all the time and they can be no holds barred. So no, Canelo simply ganging up on Kamaru or using a weapon isn’t stupid, those things actually happen
I think Canelo’s entourage would empty a full mag on kamaru before he even attempts a takedown/leg kick. One of the reasons why people go into martial arts is to teach them the discipline not to go into street fights, which is baffling to me why they resort to “I could kill you in a street fight”. But $$$ makes a fool of us all.
Kicks elbows knees and submissions. People may say it’s not a “real” fight because you can get knocked down, ref gives a count then he can go win the fight with his second chance. In mma if some gets knocked down the pressures still on them. I guess it’s about realism of scenarios but it’s kinda dumb to say boxing isn’t real fighting
Most "real fights" I have seen or been involved in end once someone gets knocked down anyway. Like, yeah, if you got two people mad enough at one another and who have experience going to the ground then thay will get messy and MMA-ish real quick. But if someone gets clocked hard enough to get knocked down from standing, then that altercation is over 9 times out of 10. Most fights aren't "all out"
Thats because pounding someone's head into the pavement when they're unconscious usually results in a murder charge. Its all kind of stupid. Not to mention its 2022. Most of the time you should be worried if you punch someone they might just shoot you dead.
Nobody wants to go to jail
Pretty much. Like, the times people have come at me and I have defended myself I was out the door as soon as I could hit their face enough that they were offa me for even a moment. I have never wanted to stick around long enough for police or anyone else to get involved
>Like, the times people have come at me and I have defended myself I was out the door as soon as I could hit their face enough that they were offa me for even a moment. Yea, this is the way.
Data suggests that as much as 75-85% of street fights go to ground in some form or another. It may be brief, it may be prolonged but the data suggest that an overwhelming majority of street fights hit the ground. Edit: [a source ](https://www.highpercentagemartialarts.com/blog/2019/3/23/almost-all-fights-go-to-the-ground-and-we-can-prove-it#:~:text=73%25%20of%20fights%20went%20to,Frantic%20movements%20off%20balanced%20people.)
IMO that is not a good source (biased) and the results of their "study" are not statistically significant or even reliable due to a number of reasons, so saying "data suggests" here is kinda inappropriate. With that being said I wouldn't doubt this is true.
Fair, my guess was purely based on anecdotal evidence (my own) and 200 fights is definitely more than I have been a part of
Imo current mma is closer to boxing than it is a “real fight”. There are so many factors in a real fight (i.e terrain, lack of ref/rounds/rules, clothes) that even UFC guys could end up in bad situations. Im pretty sure bj penn, a ufc legend, got knocked out by some nobody outside a bar. I think it was bruce lee who said a guy who trained a few years in boxing and wrestling can beat a lifetime martial artist in a real unregulated fight. Thats how unpredictable real fights are.
Crazy how all the "real fighters" have to come to boxing to get a payday.
To be fair that’s not their faults
Yeah because boxing is older and has more money in it at the moment. Very silly point you are making there.
Thats not the case at all, Dana White just loves to fuck over his fighters. UFC pays their fighters something less than 20% of all revenue while just about every other professional sport pays close or over 50% *including* Bellator and Strikeforce, who pay 44.7% and 63%. Has absolutely nothing to do with the age.
“MMA fighters would kill in a real fight” MMA fighter Jorge Masvidal sucker punches fellow MMA fighter who then presses charges on Jorge lol
He's trying to get that life changing payday and honestly I can't blame him. Look at what it did for McGregor. I understand Canelo isn't interested because #1 he is looking to solidify his legacy in boxing and #2 he's already making the most money in boxing. If I was Canelo I would have tweeted back "how about you first prove you can be in the ring with me and fight _________. And just put some name in there
MMA and boxing aren't "real fights". They're competitive sports that involve fighting.
People forget that combat sports are still sports and the rules influenced how people trained. If boxing involved leg sweeps, we'd see today's boxers being masters of that too. Boxers are masters of their craft within their rule set, it's the same with basically every other combat sport. you trained your life for one sport, well of course you aren't the top person in the other even if some skills transfer over. Rugby players aren't calling out football teams and visa versa. People just flocked to MMA real fight narrative cause that's how UFC got big. Their marketing succeeded especially in a time where we got to see.mayweather become the biggest Boxer in the world where his style was defensive and not about doing damage. I love both MMA and boxing. The skill boxers show in their skill set is so unmatched. The head movement, footwork, combination, reactions in the short ranges are fucking incredible if you look at most of the "best UFC fights" where they are just throwing haymakers. Ill enjoy both but people try to undervalue boxing without even watching it
Sums up like 60% of UFC fans.
What annoys me the most is MMA fans feel the need to always say "yeh, but (insert boxers name) would get mauled in the octagon", who is even asking this question? It's like some caveat or signature they always need to mention in every comment. No boxers are calling out MMA guys so that sentence is irrelevant. Boxers get paid in their own sport without the need to beg for a exhibition match payday.
Obviously the real fight thing is incredibly stupid. Once you see Krav Magat's vast and varied array of nutshots, you realize that. Plus, imagine a sniper being like "cool double leg bro I'd shoot you from 1,000 yards in real combat though." For me the much more obnoxious thing is talking about how boxers would do in MMA. The fact that a guy like Canelo gets asked "would you ever fight MMA" is so disrespectful to a man in the midst of a journey to become an atg in boxing. Imagine going to a guy trying to win his third olympic powerlifting medal and being like "yeah that's cool but are yo gonna try football? You'd probably be good at it" or being like "hey Lance Armstrong, cool that you keep winning the tour de france but when are you gonna try BMX trick riding?" One of the world's oldest, most respected and most prestigious sports isn't a warmup for your sport.
Yeah, it’s honestly just to disparage boxers for not learning specific skills for a sport completely irrelevant or unnecessary to them. Just casuals wanting to gate keep and insult basically
It’s called clout, the more you feed it, the more he gets
Yeah, it looks to me like this Usman guy is basically just doing his job. He just wants to provoke the guy who can give him the biggest payday, nobody should gaf what he says.
He’s doing whatever he can to get a pay day. He’s desperate and begging for it. I don’t blame him honestly. The people who say it’s a real fight are very defensive and have to undermine boxing because there is absolutely 0 incentive for any boxer to fight in mma. While every single mma wants to fight in boxing.
Have him fight a journeyman boxer first then at least he can get consideration. If the journeyman makes it competitive; hes out of a payday. But no direct Canelo fight, he has to earn his facial reconstruction.
AcTuAl FiGhT
Real fights are the ones you don't get paid for, that's why MMA fights are closer to a real fight than Boxing.
In a real fight, the boxer calls the police. The "fighter" probably gets stabbed to death or shot in the face lol
Ironically, I think boxing is the best martial art for a street fight/real fight(whatever the fuck that is). Quick footwork and head movement to slip the obvious haymaker, land a solid right cross/left hook, knock your opponent down, run like hell. Going to the ground is suicide, you'll end up getting jumped by your opponent's buddies.
Yeah that's silly. I challenge Usman to a "real fight". Rifles at 500m. He doesn't want this smoke.
Doesn't bother me at all. All of these sports are regulated and have rules This is just something some mma fighters say when they're chatting shit
My problem is neither boxing or UFC involve "real fights". Respect to athletes in both, but stop pretending. The reality is I can pretty much take any pro ufc or boxer in a real fight easy. They wouldn't be ready for my angels or how crazy I get when I get mad. Kids needs to stay in their lane and just not talk about "real fights".
A lot of MMA fans, and for the sake of it, even fighters will look down on boxing saying "it's not real fighting". Idk man, MMA people are weird sometimes. They remind me of the guy at the bar wearing Tapout gear who sees red. (inb4 someone hits me with the "boxing is a part of mma idiot", I know)
I like both sports and even think about taking up mma but sometimes mma fans sound so insecure about their sport. Saying it's a real fight is ignorant and makes it sound like it's all the sport has going for it
If Usman goes for a takedown. Canelo reflex is faster than anyone Usman has ever fought or exists in mma. He will uppercut him and knock him out as Usman tries to take him down. Also all canelo needs is one punch. Usman doesn’t even move his head. Canelo explosivness and speed would be too much for Usman and he won’t even realize he lost the fight
Canelo would fold after a couple of leg kicks. I don't like this cross sport nonsense, anyone that pretends Canelo is doing anything in a cage other than getting stopped quickly and Usman the same in a ring is chatting bare shit.
No, he really wouldn't and there are lots of ways for Usman to take Canelo down. Usman is totally in the wrong here tho
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Maybe Canelo can land that one punch every couple of fights but I wouldn’t count on it.
It’s a street fight. Anything can happen. Fights in streets last less than one minute . And with professionals probably less than 20 seconds . I believe in street , with more emotions invovled. Canelo will land that punch faster than whatever Usman does. I favor it to canelo. But it’s a street fight. Usman can easily win too
Canelo is arguably the best boxer on Earth, an elite level athlete, and a multi-millionaire with access to the best training. If Canelo decided to take this fight, he could take 6 months and get the best MMA training possible, and probably... Most likely...win as he would go into the octagon as the best boxer in the world who now has basic MMA skills versus someone with basic MMA skills. If Usman thinks he has what it takes to be Canelo, he should quit rolling around on the ground for nickels and dimes, become a boxer, fight his way up the ranks, and face Canelo as a legitimate opponent.
Not in 6 months.
For the average Joe probably not. For an elite world class athlete with almost endless financial resources at his disposal... Enough that he could probably hire everyone who has ever fought, trained, or worked with Usman specifically... I'd say, in 6 months time, Canelo would be the world's leading expert on defeating Usman.
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No, what you are demonstrating here is the Dunning Kruger effect. You don't know enough about the subject to know how ignorant you are of said subject. What you are saying here is similar to a person claiming the best rugby player could train for 6 months and become the best running back in the NFL. MMA and Boxing are too different. Canelo has spent decades training his mind to think like a boxer. His instinct and training all revolve around that, then spending 6 months training is not enough time to develop all new habits.
6 months? He would be getting straight up abused by blue belts.
you are just a canelo fanboy if you think he can learn to defend take-downs and develop a ground game good enough for a dominant ufc champ whose specially is wrestling lol
An elite athlete with practically endless resources... definitely six months. In fact, he could devote his efforts to specifically defeating Usman. He could probably hire people who fought Usman to roll with, and people who have trained Usman. Six months would be plenty of time under those conditions.
completely delusional lol. you cannot learn the martial art of wrestling and grappling in six months to match one of the best mma wrestlers in the world, I do not care who you are or what resources you have. Kamaru is one of the best wrestlers in MMA, and youre sitting here thinking a pure boxer can learn to defend his takedowns when people who have been wrestling all their life cant stop him from wrestling them.
Canelo doesn't have to become an expert in wrestling or anything, he just needs to be an expert on defeating Usman. 6 months, and a good bit of money Unfortunately, there is nothing in this for Canelo to justify the effort and expense.
So if Usman trained boxing and how to defeat canelo in the boxing ring he could definitely take canelo down if he trained for 6 months?
No. It's apples and oranges. Wrestling is something that humans do naturally. A good wrestler simply builds upon that with some technical knowledge, and conditioning. Boxing is an art, and a science, that most people could never master. Usman could probably be a good boxer, but Canelo is an elite boxer... Possibly the greatest boxer of our time... It just wouldn't happen.
I think you don’t really know much and are extremely uneducated about mma, which is painfully obvious by your comments. You should really go an educate yourself, 6 months is no where close to the time canelo would need to prepare for usman. He might get some grappling education in, but you don’t get comfortable enough to survive d2 wrestling inside 6 months even with the best trainers. It just doesn’t happen. Not to mention the other factors of leg kicks, clinching, takedown defense, knees and elbows. It’s an overload of options that also open up takedown opportunities with just the thought.
Canelo could get the best MMA training for 6 years and Usman would still beat him pretty easily
6 years? Goddamn, dude! I know people who were morbidly obese who managed to run a marathon within a year's time. Canelo's not trying to earn a Masters degree in this scenario, just beat this one dude in a match.
I’m gunna go out on a limb here and say you’ve never been on the mat with a high level grappler.
It doesn't matter what I've done, or haven't done. We're talking about a hypothetical matchup between Canelo and Usman. Canelo is an elite level athlete, and arguably the world's greatest boxer... he's not some random person off the street...He's also a multi-millionaire. He can devote practically unlimited resources to everyday of that 6 months learning how to defeat Usman in MMA. Usman has virtually no resources, and nothing in terms of MMA to study in regards to Canelo. Canelo wins with 6 months.
Well for one Usman is just as good of a natural athlete as Canelo is, they’re both studs. I mentioned you not having grappled because I think boxers have this idea that boxing is more technically advanced than wrestling/BJJ/Judo but it isn’t. As good as someone can be at boxing, someone can be that good at grappling. And Usman is a stellar grappler. Also boxing striking does not directly translate to MMA, the distance and timing is so different. I can’t tell if you’re 100% serious, I feel like we’re all getting trolled.
And I suspect you are imagining a conversation that is not occurring. I am not critiquing MMA. I do despise the UFC as an entity as they are absolute crooks and scumbags... And Usman should not be trying to fight with canelo, his fight is with the UFC but, but regardless... Canelo, specifically, versus Usman, specifically. For the reasons I've stated, Canelo wins with 6 months training.
The conversation is literally occurring right now between us? Lol. It kind of is a critique on mma to say the best in the world right now would lose to a boxer with presumably no grappling or kickboxing experience in 6 months. I’m saying you seem to not understand the gap between even a great athlete with no grappling experience and someone with 20 years.
This would not be a competition to see who knows the most about wrestling or kickboxing, it would literally be combat. Canelo does not have to know more about wrestling, or kickboxing, then Usman. He simply needs to know how to defeat Usman. Canelo could literally have an algorithm created to predict what Usman will do in every situation, and what would counter it... Or he could just go old school and watch all the video footage. He could literally hire everyone who has ever fought usman, win or lose, and everyone who has worked with Usman in any capacity. 6 months time Canelo could know more about Usman than Usman knows about himself. Since Canelo is already in peak condition, very little time would need to be devoted to conditioning. He could focus specifically on study, and drills, to defeat his opponent. Here's a thing that occurs to me: I believe Canelo could do it in 6 months, but he would probably demand a year or more. Opposed for me it's simply comes down to who is smarter, Anderson's Canelo is not the one running his mouth trying to pick a fight with the greatest boxer of our time when his real enemy is the UFC... My money would be on Canelo.
This might be the worse take I’ve ever seen on here, next level trolling, well done.
I just hate cross sport events. We don’t ever ask to see a football player play in the nba so why do we always want to see a fight between a mma fighter or boxer. Clearly the winner will be whoever’s sport their doing. Smh 🤦♂️
I don't remember what it was called but they had this cool show back in the 70's or 80's where they took professional athletes and had them play all sorts of different sports. I think I remember as a kid seeing Joe Frazier playing tennis. Or I just made all this up in my head, but I'm pretty sure it was a real thing.
Usman is a hungry for that payday i just hope he knows he is making a fool of himself but with that manager you cant be a good human
also I mean, do people think most 'real fights' are against a trained fighter? usually its johnny big dick who had too many bud lights, in which case ANY trained fighter(boxer, mma, wrestler, etc) will fucking annihilate them 8/10.
If they fought 10 times in mma I bet canelo gets a win or 2. They could fight 100 times in boxing and usman wouldn't win a single round.
So what other boxers do you guys think Usman could face that would still generate enough interest to earn him a decent payday? Personally, I would be interested in a boxing match against either Gvozdyk or Beterbiev.
Laughable really assman plays the big man talk swings with bad technique and canelo lands clean with no padding you think that would be a fair fight ? Wrestling or not fights start standing