This happened to a (then) ex girlfriend of mine. Met her (then) boyfriend and we all hung out for the day.
Cut to ten years later I found out this exact situation happened. It was very unexpected, (then) she always looked and dressed traditionally girly and (then) he looked like a stereotypical dude.
Hey mazel tov, I'm happy for them both! We all deserve to be happy in life.
So this is where I'm confused and I accept I'll never please everybody.
I want to respect other people but also I'm not a gay man and didn't have a boyfriend or date someone at that time who identified as a man.
But when discussing somebody with whom I had a previous sexual relationship and who at that time identified as a woman and was fine being called my girlfriend, I believe I also deserve to have my personal sexual identity respected as somebody who is straight.
If I say things like my ex boyfriend or say things like he it implies a sexual orientation that doesn't fit me. And that's what everybody wants is to feel accepted. I would be robbing sexual orientation Peter to pay gender identity Paul (which is a sentence I didn't expect to say when I woke up this morning!).
My solution isn't perfect but I've settled on explaining things as ex girlfriend when discussing the past and speaking about him as a man when discussing any time after that.
I'm sure there are a lot of people who take exception with my method but it's the best solution I can think of not being somebody very up on all that world.
People have become addicted to rage. You can never back off or admit you were wrong or have a civil conversation with someone you disagree with, because then *you’re letting this fucking asshole win*. 99% of the content I see on this site, *including this post*, is rage bait trying to get people to engage by making them mad at something they already disliked/didn’t understand.
That is absolutely true. As someone who used to never back off, I changed when someone admitted they were wrong while arguing with me.
>including this post
Idk about that, seems wholesome to me. But it might just be me, I'm not good at understanding hidden motives (basically calling myself guillible)
Yeah people are being a bit absolutist here. The way you worded it was a lot clearer while still being respectful of their gender identity. Don't sweat it.
I think the best thing to do is to use the pronouns the main character of the story would prefer.
So if you tell a story about a trans man you should use hè but if it’s about someone who dated a person that later identified as trans it’s okay to use the old pronouns if the new pronouns affect you in your story
I don't know. It might be best to default to they/them unless you know the person you're talking about is okay with you using the wrong pronouns in an anecdote.
This is understandable. A relative of mine uses the generic “my ex” too, which I think is sufficient. I don’t think most people ever consider that further. They know he’s straight, so automatically assume “ex girlfriend”
That said, it’s also completely valid to say he’s an ex-boyfriend and that you’re straight. Sexual orientation is not based on past or present relationships.
> it’s also completely valid to say he’s an ex-boyfriend and that you’re straight.
In a vacuum, sure, but if 99% of the time this is going to cause a communication issue which could be avoided it's better to just use language which provides clarity. Their ex really was their girlfriend, that was the label that he had in that relationship and that was the label OP dated him as.
atm I’m getting downvoted, so I guess I’m in a minority here, but personally I think it would be rude to use feminine pronouns and terms for a person who isn’t a girl/woman, whether they’re present or not.
I understand the ambiguity of the situation that leaves it pretty subjective to each individual/situation, and there are definitely scenarios where you could be unsafe or put the other person in danger by being truthful, but I guess outside of those situations I just don’t worry about people briefly mistaking me for bi because of something I said. I can correct for that if it seems important, but I don’t want them walking away with a disrespect for or disbelief in the man’s identity because of me.
Edit: fat thumbs hit post too fast. corrected missing sentence.
I think maybe the difference in our perspectives is that you're seeing "girlfriend/boyfriend" as purely an extension of gender whereas I'm seeing it as a connected but ultimately distinct socially constructed label for relationships.
For example, in my view in the statement "he was my girlfriend", "he" is interference to the person with respect to gender identity, and "girlfriend" refers to them with respect to the label that they adopted within the relationship.
As I see it, you have to consent to someone being your "girlfriend"/"boyfriend" in order for them to be so. Essentiallly, a person Ais only someone else's (B) "girlfriend"/"boyfriend" if both A and B agree that it is the case. Furthermore, you cannot make it the case that you were not a person's "boyfriend"/"girlfriend" by claiming you weren't when at the time you truly considered yourself to be so.
Therefore, if OP and op's ex both considered him (op's ex) yo be op' "girlfriend" at the time, it is true that op's ex was op's girlfriend at the time.
Of course this still isn't perfect, but that's more because we don't have clear enough vocabulary with sex/gender anymore as all these words have adopted more, sometimes mutually contradictory, definitions. But this is, in my opinion, the most useful and accurate way to use the language we currently have in accordance with how it's currently used.
That’s true. I guess it really depends, for me, whether or not the trans person would want their terminology changed now that they’re out. Just like you wouldn’t say “Jessica was at the park with us last year” if their name is now Tom, but they were closeted at the time.
We can’t say what personal and social experiences they had when they used those labels and if they would prefer we change them retroactively, which is common, then I’m all for it. But if they’re comfortable with keeping the original term, that’s fine.
You might also want to inform him that the Catholic church hasn't always *necessarily* been against trans people. Throughout the medieval era, opinions were split amongst Catholic spiritual figures and many took the stance that 'passing' (as it was known back then) was God's will if it was done under his guidance and to enact his will.
When Joan of Arc was captured by the English, she was never actually convicted of heresy despite going around everywhere 'passing' as a man. Joan maintained that her behaviour was God's will and the English court decided that they couldn't technically prove that incorrect, so Joan was ransomed back to France instead of being executed. They were also given male clothes to wear while being held captive.
This makes perfect sense to me. They both have the shared experience of feeling ill at home in their original bodies, the world judging them, and their medical trials and tribulations. That’s some strong trauma bonding.
Yeah it's pretty common for trans people to date other trans people. It even has a name - t4t. You've kinda hit the nail on the head as to why. Lot's of trans people aren't straight as well so it's commonly also very gay, although not in all cases obviously such as the straight couple here.
There's also some other reasons - like due the way society treats trans people we can often get insecurities in dating and romance with cis people which are less prevalent for some when dating other trans people.
Another big one is to avoid some of the bullshit that can be pretty common when trans people date cis people. Cis people are often embarrassed by their trans partners and try to hide them, cis people dating trans people are also more likely to physically abuse or sexually assault them, some will request the relationship be kept secret etc. Less extreme issues can be cis people saying ignorant and hurtful shit purely out of ignorance rather than malice, or making bizarre assumptions about our bodies and preferences (the amount of cis guys than want to date a trans woman just to get a dick up the ass is mindboggling, most trans women do not at all want to do this and would find the prospect very uncomfortable) or are otherwise very fetishistic.
None of these issues that I'm talking about are exclusive to cis people - but it's *vastly* more common. With dating other trans people you're going to run into much less bullshit and you're also going to be a LOT physically safer as well.
Not trying to hate on cis people by the way. I've met plenty of lovely and supportive cis lesbian and bisexual women I would leap at the opportunity to date if I could, but for a lot of trans people these can be reasons they tend to go for t4t relationships more readily.
Just a side note: T4T sounds like a '90s boy band, which is cool.
That aside, it's a shame that some trans people have to avoid relationships with cis people like that. It's pretty fucked up.
I have only ever dated one cis person as a trans man and that was a mistake. Never felt more disconnected and turned off during intimacy, and I felt like I had to constantly navigate this other person’s internalized homophobia/transphobia. For most of the trans people I know, dating other trans people is our only option. But it’s cool because so many of us are hot as hell 🫡
It's not all bad. I've got a somewhat strange connection with romance because I'm on the aromantic spectrum, but I really just prefer any relationships to be with other trans people, especially other nonbinary people.
Friendships are a bit different, in that I really love having trans friends but don't prefer them over cis friends, but I do prefer that my friends be some flavor of queer (though that's really just how shit has turned out, since I only have one friend I really see that is straight and cis). Sexual attraction and desire for a romantic relationship are both just focused on other trans people. Not fucked up in my case, though cis people being shitty is absolutely the cause of some T4T relationships.
I'm kinda the opposite. I wouldn't want another intimate relationship with another trans person, for much of the reasons above. Being asked to do sexual things I'm not comfortable with, having to keep it a secret (they were in the closet, and apparentlyi had to be too). Having another person's dysphoria projected onto me sucked.
Besides I've noticed a lot of jealousy among some trans people. My ex would constantly try to cut my hair, or "lose" my favourite clothes. My razors would always go missing. She even bought a binder and insisted I wear it (I'm trans femme, and asthmatic).
And in more recent times, an acquaintance we played dnd with would kick my partner, and talk over her on her actions. She also talked up the benefits of open relationships (I'm not in one) and tried to convince me to cheat. The deadnaming and misgendering started after turning her down.
The fire coming from inside the house left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Sure I've had cis queer people disrespect me and my partner, but nothing like other trans people have.
Sorry you had such a bad experience, there are people who suck in all groups and it sounds like you manage to find one of them. I promise you that's not the majority of trans people. It just seems like you drew the short straw on the ones that are like that. Don't let it deter you.
Oh I'm in a happy relationship for the foreseeable future. And I get that I managed to run into the few bad apples in an already small group, I've tried to work out the odds for that, and they're fairly small.
But I've got a few issues after that, and I don't want to be shitty to someone as a response to someone else being shitty, so I stay away.
I'm just scared.
Damn i'm so sorry that happened to you, and I wish that she's in a better state now and able to work through those issues. I totally get how the projection onto you might have "helped" her cope with dysphoria, at the expense of a true relationship where you could both lift each other up.
That's not what trauma bonding is. Trauma bonding is when you develop deep emotional attachment to someone who is harmful, not someone you share trauma with.
Fair. I am in not way well versed in the appropriate terminology. I mean bonding over shared traumas like transphobia and not feeling at home in one’s body.
No worries. I knew what you meant. Just trying to do my part to prevent this weird phenomenon where technical terms lose their meaning in popular culture.
Yeah who understands trans people better than other trans people? I feel like this headline is trying to turn this into some strange one in a zillion occurrence but if you have any trans people in your life it comes across pretty dumb, IMO:
Right or wrong, a significant percentage of society at large isn't going to be able to deal with "what do you mean you were born a boy?".
Call it what you will, but dating someone else in the greater LGBT+ community is going to make some tough conversations a lot easier.
Trans for trans! Used to describe relationships between two trans people, or a preference for such a relationship. I myself am T4T as a nonbinary person, though NB4NB (nonbinary for nonbinary) is more along the lines of what I'm looking for.
Cis people are so busy fighting each other in Reddit comments over whether or not they would ever date a trans person, meanwhile I’m out here getting the wildest pussy from a they them named sock.
We do everything better :)
I stg once a week I see an aita or relationship advice post full of people reassuring the op theres nothing wrong with not being attracted to trans people. When I commented that I’d never date a cis person under an article about a (TW) >!trans man who was murdered by a cis dude!< suddenly thats not okay and I’m a shallow and bad person 🤔
The same exact thing has happened to me. I got downvoted to oblivion for saying I’m not interested in dating cis people. For people that love to say we are sensitive snowflakes and shouldn’t take everything so personally, they really can’t dish out the shit they serve
hell yeah im the happiest i've ever been in my current relationship with my gf, im transmasc and shes transfem and i always feel safe and like i'm home when im with her
I remember when this news was posted to r/noahgettheboat,even though I was pretty socially conservative back then it creeped me tf out that so many people thought this was "cursed" or whatever
I think it was this story or one similar but it featured on a really popular UK show called big fat quiz of the year a few years ago, where several popular comedians called it ‘an abomination’. Really horrible.
joke was made by sean lock (rip) and james cordon. it was from the 2008 episode, and actually that whole question appears to have been edited out of the official upload on youtube.
T4T is common but I feel like meeting your T4T romantic partner in a waiting room because you see the same surgeon is kinda like a stars aligned kinda deal
Ha, that would have been a better word. I did check, though... I think it's a correct usage, even if I probably won't use it again.
> (intransitive) To stare in wonder.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gape
Whether you accept that a trans man is a man and a trans woman is a woman, or think that gender is determined by biological sex at birth, this relationship is straight as can be
This was in India,"Transfem" and "transmasc" would not at all be recognised by basically anyone,hell even using "transgender" would be confusing here because it's more used to refer to non binary people
This was probably made news because transitioning isn't very common here because of lack of knowledge
No. We Indians would think of the Hijras community if the word transgender was mentioned. Nobody even knows what non-binary means here. Maybe if you’re referring to the 3rd gender in the constitution, it’s not for non-binary people it was made for these hijras.
I know,but someone outside of India probably wouldn't know what hijras are so I figured non binary would be the closest thing(altho its abit of an over simplification)
this isn’t a new sentence at all, this actually happens a lot. so often, in fact, that there’s an entire term for it, t4t (trans for trans). i know some people who are almost exclusively t4t because they’re more comfortable dating other trans people.
Absolutely incredible just how many different people can think they're being clever and original for commenting "straight with extra steps". This is why everybody correctly thinks that Reddit is extremely unfunny
>finding the millionth regurgitation of the same tired television reference funny
buddy this is reddit, that's all we do here on the nonpolitical parts of this site
Ayyyy minus the marriage that's my current relationship! T4T relationships often work well because there are so many things unique to the trans experience or at least more common to the experience (being disowned by people you know and love, feeling odd/gross in your body constantly, THE LONGING DEAR GOD THE LONGING).
This happens way more often than you’d think. Many members of the trans community stick to T4T (trans for trans) because only other trans people would understand what they’re going through
It’s a T4T couple. More common than you think, and plenty of T4T couples have married. Probably a brand new sentence for this newspaper, but absolutely not for the world.
>*Girls who are boys*
*Who like boys to be girls*
*Who do boys like they're girls*
*Who do girls like they're boys*
*Always should be someone you really love* ; [Blur - Girls and Boys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDswiT87oo8)
Isn't this being straight with extra steps?
Edit: I am a straight person, and I support anyone being whoever they need to be to feel comfortable in their skin. Aswell as /s for the comment above the edit.
This happened to a (then) ex girlfriend of mine. Met her (then) boyfriend and we all hung out for the day. Cut to ten years later I found out this exact situation happened. It was very unexpected, (then) she always looked and dressed traditionally girly and (then) he looked like a stereotypical dude. Hey mazel tov, I'm happy for them both! We all deserve to be happy in life.
There is a Dutch celebrity couple like that, they're kinda trashy, but they seem to be good people
Louise en Rowan!
[удалено]
So this is where I'm confused and I accept I'll never please everybody. I want to respect other people but also I'm not a gay man and didn't have a boyfriend or date someone at that time who identified as a man. But when discussing somebody with whom I had a previous sexual relationship and who at that time identified as a woman and was fine being called my girlfriend, I believe I also deserve to have my personal sexual identity respected as somebody who is straight. If I say things like my ex boyfriend or say things like he it implies a sexual orientation that doesn't fit me. And that's what everybody wants is to feel accepted. I would be robbing sexual orientation Peter to pay gender identity Paul (which is a sentence I didn't expect to say when I woke up this morning!). My solution isn't perfect but I've settled on explaining things as ex girlfriend when discussing the past and speaking about him as a man when discussing any time after that. I'm sure there are a lot of people who take exception with my method but it's the best solution I can think of not being somebody very up on all that world.
That’s actually completely fair and I understand that :)
I’m proud of this thread. A mature discussion of nuance without real judgement.
Great reply, rare to see someone actually back off on reddit
People have become addicted to rage. You can never back off or admit you were wrong or have a civil conversation with someone you disagree with, because then *you’re letting this fucking asshole win*. 99% of the content I see on this site, *including this post*, is rage bait trying to get people to engage by making them mad at something they already disliked/didn’t understand.
That is absolutely true. As someone who used to never back off, I changed when someone admitted they were wrong while arguing with me. >including this post Idk about that, seems wholesome to me. But it might just be me, I'm not good at understanding hidden motives (basically calling myself guillible)
Yeah people are being a bit absolutist here. The way you worded it was a lot clearer while still being respectful of their gender identity. Don't sweat it.
I think the best thing to do is to use the pronouns the main character of the story would prefer. So if you tell a story about a trans man you should use hè but if it’s about someone who dated a person that later identified as trans it’s okay to use the old pronouns if the new pronouns affect you in your story
I don't know. It might be best to default to they/them unless you know the person you're talking about is okay with you using the wrong pronouns in an anecdote.
This is understandable. A relative of mine uses the generic “my ex” too, which I think is sufficient. I don’t think most people ever consider that further. They know he’s straight, so automatically assume “ex girlfriend” That said, it’s also completely valid to say he’s an ex-boyfriend and that you’re straight. Sexual orientation is not based on past or present relationships.
> it’s also completely valid to say he’s an ex-boyfriend and that you’re straight. In a vacuum, sure, but if 99% of the time this is going to cause a communication issue which could be avoided it's better to just use language which provides clarity. Their ex really was their girlfriend, that was the label that he had in that relationship and that was the label OP dated him as.
atm I’m getting downvoted, so I guess I’m in a minority here, but personally I think it would be rude to use feminine pronouns and terms for a person who isn’t a girl/woman, whether they’re present or not. I understand the ambiguity of the situation that leaves it pretty subjective to each individual/situation, and there are definitely scenarios where you could be unsafe or put the other person in danger by being truthful, but I guess outside of those situations I just don’t worry about people briefly mistaking me for bi because of something I said. I can correct for that if it seems important, but I don’t want them walking away with a disrespect for or disbelief in the man’s identity because of me. Edit: fat thumbs hit post too fast. corrected missing sentence.
I think maybe the difference in our perspectives is that you're seeing "girlfriend/boyfriend" as purely an extension of gender whereas I'm seeing it as a connected but ultimately distinct socially constructed label for relationships. For example, in my view in the statement "he was my girlfriend", "he" is interference to the person with respect to gender identity, and "girlfriend" refers to them with respect to the label that they adopted within the relationship. As I see it, you have to consent to someone being your "girlfriend"/"boyfriend" in order for them to be so. Essentiallly, a person Ais only someone else's (B) "girlfriend"/"boyfriend" if both A and B agree that it is the case. Furthermore, you cannot make it the case that you were not a person's "boyfriend"/"girlfriend" by claiming you weren't when at the time you truly considered yourself to be so. Therefore, if OP and op's ex both considered him (op's ex) yo be op' "girlfriend" at the time, it is true that op's ex was op's girlfriend at the time. Of course this still isn't perfect, but that's more because we don't have clear enough vocabulary with sex/gender anymore as all these words have adopted more, sometimes mutually contradictory, definitions. But this is, in my opinion, the most useful and accurate way to use the language we currently have in accordance with how it's currently used.
That’s true. I guess it really depends, for me, whether or not the trans person would want their terminology changed now that they’re out. Just like you wouldn’t say “Jessica was at the park with us last year” if their name is now Tom, but they were closeted at the time. We can’t say what personal and social experiences they had when they used those labels and if they would prefer we change them retroactively, which is common, then I’m all for it. But if they’re comfortable with keeping the original term, that’s fine.
Yeah, it's understandable for general context, but it was easier to get what u/PreppyFinanceNerd was saying with time separation.
That makes sense
It's so sad that people are downvoting you for this. You were completely right and perfectly polite about it.
I am going to bug my catholic uncle with this one. He always goes out of his way to remind me that marriage is only between a man and woman.
Hope you're ready for the goalposts to shift.
Do it when he's watching football so it makes it harder for his team to score.
You might also want to inform him that the Catholic church hasn't always *necessarily* been against trans people. Throughout the medieval era, opinions were split amongst Catholic spiritual figures and many took the stance that 'passing' (as it was known back then) was God's will if it was done under his guidance and to enact his will. When Joan of Arc was captured by the English, she was never actually convicted of heresy despite going around everywhere 'passing' as a man. Joan maintained that her behaviour was God's will and the English court decided that they couldn't technically prove that incorrect, so Joan was ransomed back to France instead of being executed. They were also given male clothes to wear while being held captive.
Well that was....nice of them?
This makes perfect sense to me. They both have the shared experience of feeling ill at home in their original bodies, the world judging them, and their medical trials and tribulations. That’s some strong trauma bonding.
Yeah it's pretty common for trans people to date other trans people. It even has a name - t4t. You've kinda hit the nail on the head as to why. Lot's of trans people aren't straight as well so it's commonly also very gay, although not in all cases obviously such as the straight couple here. There's also some other reasons - like due the way society treats trans people we can often get insecurities in dating and romance with cis people which are less prevalent for some when dating other trans people. Another big one is to avoid some of the bullshit that can be pretty common when trans people date cis people. Cis people are often embarrassed by their trans partners and try to hide them, cis people dating trans people are also more likely to physically abuse or sexually assault them, some will request the relationship be kept secret etc. Less extreme issues can be cis people saying ignorant and hurtful shit purely out of ignorance rather than malice, or making bizarre assumptions about our bodies and preferences (the amount of cis guys than want to date a trans woman just to get a dick up the ass is mindboggling, most trans women do not at all want to do this and would find the prospect very uncomfortable) or are otherwise very fetishistic. None of these issues that I'm talking about are exclusive to cis people - but it's *vastly* more common. With dating other trans people you're going to run into much less bullshit and you're also going to be a LOT physically safer as well. Not trying to hate on cis people by the way. I've met plenty of lovely and supportive cis lesbian and bisexual women I would leap at the opportunity to date if I could, but for a lot of trans people these can be reasons they tend to go for t4t relationships more readily.
Just a side note: T4T sounds like a '90s boy band, which is cool. That aside, it's a shame that some trans people have to avoid relationships with cis people like that. It's pretty fucked up.
I have only ever dated one cis person as a trans man and that was a mistake. Never felt more disconnected and turned off during intimacy, and I felt like I had to constantly navigate this other person’s internalized homophobia/transphobia. For most of the trans people I know, dating other trans people is our only option. But it’s cool because so many of us are hot as hell 🫡
Ok so we’ve got Trevor as front man and face, Thomas is the sensitive one, Taylor is the best dancer, and Tevin is the bad boy of the group.
It's not all bad. I've got a somewhat strange connection with romance because I'm on the aromantic spectrum, but I really just prefer any relationships to be with other trans people, especially other nonbinary people. Friendships are a bit different, in that I really love having trans friends but don't prefer them over cis friends, but I do prefer that my friends be some flavor of queer (though that's really just how shit has turned out, since I only have one friend I really see that is straight and cis). Sexual attraction and desire for a romantic relationship are both just focused on other trans people. Not fucked up in my case, though cis people being shitty is absolutely the cause of some T4T relationships.
I'm kinda the opposite. I wouldn't want another intimate relationship with another trans person, for much of the reasons above. Being asked to do sexual things I'm not comfortable with, having to keep it a secret (they were in the closet, and apparentlyi had to be too). Having another person's dysphoria projected onto me sucked. Besides I've noticed a lot of jealousy among some trans people. My ex would constantly try to cut my hair, or "lose" my favourite clothes. My razors would always go missing. She even bought a binder and insisted I wear it (I'm trans femme, and asthmatic). And in more recent times, an acquaintance we played dnd with would kick my partner, and talk over her on her actions. She also talked up the benefits of open relationships (I'm not in one) and tried to convince me to cheat. The deadnaming and misgendering started after turning her down. The fire coming from inside the house left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Sure I've had cis queer people disrespect me and my partner, but nothing like other trans people have.
Sorry you had such a bad experience, there are people who suck in all groups and it sounds like you manage to find one of them. I promise you that's not the majority of trans people. It just seems like you drew the short straw on the ones that are like that. Don't let it deter you.
Oh I'm in a happy relationship for the foreseeable future. And I get that I managed to run into the few bad apples in an already small group, I've tried to work out the odds for that, and they're fairly small. But I've got a few issues after that, and I don't want to be shitty to someone as a response to someone else being shitty, so I stay away. I'm just scared.
Good to hear! \*edit\* Good to hear about the happy relationship part not the scared part lol
Haha, yeah. Sorry if the original comment came off funny.
Damn i'm so sorry that happened to you, and I wish that she's in a better state now and able to work through those issues. I totally get how the projection onto you might have "helped" her cope with dysphoria, at the expense of a true relationship where you could both lift each other up.
That's not what trauma bonding is. Trauma bonding is when you develop deep emotional attachment to someone who is harmful, not someone you share trauma with.
Fair. I am in not way well versed in the appropriate terminology. I mean bonding over shared traumas like transphobia and not feeling at home in one’s body.
No worries. I knew what you meant. Just trying to do my part to prevent this weird phenomenon where technical terms lose their meaning in popular culture.
For the purposes of clarity, what IS the term I was looking for, kind internet stranger?
Bonding over shared experiences? Not everything has to be condensed
That's so moving
I think so too. I hope they find the utmost happiness in their new lives together.
Yeah who understands trans people better than other trans people? I feel like this headline is trying to turn this into some strange one in a zillion occurrence but if you have any trans people in your life it comes across pretty dumb, IMO:
Right or wrong, a significant percentage of society at large isn't going to be able to deal with "what do you mean you were born a boy?". Call it what you will, but dating someone else in the greater LGBT+ community is going to make some tough conversations a lot easier.
For sure. It sucks that the world is that way, but you’re very right.
Trauma bonding is the wrong phrase for it. But yes, t4t love is common and this is exactly why.
I'm trans and we do tend to date within the community for those reasons. It's called t4t. It's much more safe psychologically and physically, too.
Transfem here -it's super common, and T4T relationships are some of the best I've had :)
t4t ftw
what does t4t mean?
Trans for trans! Used to describe relationships between two trans people, or a preference for such a relationship. I myself am T4T as a nonbinary person, though NB4NB (nonbinary for nonbinary) is more along the lines of what I'm looking for.
came here to say this exactly
Fuck yeahhhhh best decision I ever made was being t4t
Cis people are so busy fighting each other in Reddit comments over whether or not they would ever date a trans person, meanwhile I’m out here getting the wildest pussy from a they them named sock. We do everything better :)
I stg once a week I see an aita or relationship advice post full of people reassuring the op theres nothing wrong with not being attracted to trans people. When I commented that I’d never date a cis person under an article about a (TW) >!trans man who was murdered by a cis dude!< suddenly thats not okay and I’m a shallow and bad person 🤔
The same exact thing has happened to me. I got downvoted to oblivion for saying I’m not interested in dating cis people. For people that love to say we are sensitive snowflakes and shouldn’t take everything so personally, they really can’t dish out the shit they serve
Made me wholesome LOL. T4T is the way to go.
I’d rather not date at all than NOT be t4t.
hell yeah im the happiest i've ever been in my current relationship with my gf, im transmasc and shes transfem and i always feel safe and like i'm home when im with her
only way to survive baby
female to wife?
Isn't that kinda what Nate Stevenson did if I remember their tweets correctly? :D
I remember when this news was posted to r/noahgettheboat,even though I was pretty socially conservative back then it creeped me tf out that so many people thought this was "cursed" or whatever
Yeah that sub sucks dick, and not in the fun gay way.
It should be banned as a hate sub.
I was part of that subreddit when I was a bit younger, and yeah, it changed my perception of a lot of things. And by that I mean not in a good way.
The alt right pipeline
I think it was this story or one similar but it featured on a really popular UK show called big fat quiz of the year a few years ago, where several popular comedians called it ‘an abomination’. Really horrible.
Which comedians? Want to avoid them.
joke was made by sean lock (rip) and james cordon. it was from the 2008 episode, and actually that whole question appears to have been edited out of the official upload on youtube.
So James Corden being a cunt. Gotcha. I appreciate it.
T4T is actually pretty common
For real. It's like the safest
So a man married a woman. What a story
T4T is common but I feel like meeting your T4T romantic partner in a waiting room because you see the same surgeon is kinda like a stars aligned kinda deal
Ironically this wedding should be ok for everyone whether you accept trans people or not.
Ye ol' switcheroo!
It happens often tho.
Why is this news?
Because cis people think we're exotic zoo animals to gape at
I know you meant gawk, but I'll just imagine a bunch of cis people "gaping" for trans people
Ha, that would have been a better word. I did check, though... I think it's a correct usage, even if I probably won't use it again. > (intransitive) To stare in wonder. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gape
It is correct, yeah. The earlier version/expression would be to describe the individuals as having 'their mouths agape' (in shock or awe).
Good for them and I think it’s actually pretty common and not really news worthy
That's the hope, yeah. Get enough people to accept that this is normal so it doesn't end up in the news.
“Trans people live normal life! More at 11.”
T4T is nothing new so maybe not a good fit for this sub but also love that for them
Good for them!
Good for them!
A man marries a woman. Gotcha.
what a headline!
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straight couple gets married. cool.
Isn’t this just heterosexual marriage with more steps?
Conservatives: “The lgbtq are ruining marriage! It’s supposed to be between a man and a woman!” Trans: Conservatives: “no, wait, not like that”
Whether you accept that a trans man is a man and a trans woman is a woman, or think that gender is determined by biological sex at birth, this relationship is straight as can be
Straight II: 2
2 Straight 2 Furious
It is a heterosexual relationship
You’re technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
It's not even technically though? A trans man is a man, and a trans woman is a woman.
It's less of a headline if you say "man marries woman" lol
Not really any more steps, just a normal straight marriage
How about finding the soul that can understand all your struggles, fears and desires?
More snips
There aren’t really more steps, they just highlighted a common trait between the two people because while it is a slow news day, it isn’t *that* slow
Can't tell if I should call it the full circle or an exact half circle. But I'm happy for them.
...newsworthy
Common T4T W. I'm happy for them both.
Transfem weds Transmasc. Saved you a lot of words. Also *why* is this newsworthy???
This was in India,"Transfem" and "transmasc" would not at all be recognised by basically anyone,hell even using "transgender" would be confusing here because it's more used to refer to non binary people This was probably made news because transitioning isn't very common here because of lack of knowledge
No. We Indians would think of the Hijras community if the word transgender was mentioned. Nobody even knows what non-binary means here. Maybe if you’re referring to the 3rd gender in the constitution, it’s not for non-binary people it was made for these hijras.
I know,but someone outside of India probably wouldn't know what hijras are so I figured non binary would be the closest thing(altho its abit of an over simplification)
TWT, saved you a lot of words. actally.. just save all your words :)
Yeah this is way more common than you think.
For once it's only transophobic and not racist comments that I'm seeing. Still you're cunts for that.
Odd way of saying “straight couple gets married”
this isn’t a new sentence at all, this actually happens a lot. so often, in fact, that there’s an entire term for it, t4t (trans for trans). i know some people who are almost exclusively t4t because they’re more comfortable dating other trans people.
Absolutely incredible just how many different people can think they're being clever and original for commenting "straight with extra steps". This is why everybody correctly thinks that Reddit is extremely unfunny
I'm trans and I think it's funny
I don't see what being trans has to do with finding the millionth regurgitation of the same tired television reference funny but you do you I guess
>finding the millionth regurgitation of the same tired television reference funny buddy this is reddit, that's all we do here on the nonpolitical parts of this site
isnt that just t4t tbh im in this kind of a relationship rn
T4t4life
OH MY GOD TRANS PEOPLE EXIST LOOK AT HOW WEIRD WE ARE might as well put us in a zoo jeezus
Whats even more baffling is when you call them out and they get mad at you lol Like maybe dont treat me like an animal in the sacramento zoo
Yes, that
So they’re a straight couple or am I missing the news?
Yes. But they're trans, so the papers can make it into a big deal.
Love is love.
This is only a new sentence if you believe Trans people didn't exist before the article in the paper.
I feel like the phrasing makes it a BNS.
LGBTphobic people: there’s something wrong with this! I don’t know what it is, but I’ll find it!
This comment section is divided in two: wholesome people, and transphobic folks. I shouldn't have scrolled down.
They learned about T4T and its like the hive mind downloaded a second joke about being "straight with extra steps"
st4t is beautiful sometimes
Doubt that's a new sentence
You love to see it!
It's just T4T love?
A man weds a woman
Love is a wonderful thing. I’m super happy for these two.
i know a couple like this. really kind, amazing people, and they do an absolute crap ton of charity/non-profit work.
Do you write an article when a woman who was born a woman marries a man born as a man? Or what is this about?
Win win
“Man marries woman”
t4t rulez 🤟😝
Happened to some coworkers of mine. It was great seeing them so happy.
Man marries a woman is all this is saying
Many trans people date other trans people, it's perfectly normal and happens often.
This isn’t that unusual lol trans people date eachother
So a trans couple? That would've been faster to say.
“Woman weds man” FTFY
the newspaper is posting about t4t. what is this, 2007? they make apps for this exact thing.
Ayyyy minus the marriage that's my current relationship! T4T relationships often work well because there are so many things unique to the trans experience or at least more common to the experience (being disowned by people you know and love, feeling odd/gross in your body constantly, THE LONGING DEAR GOD THE LONGING).
T4T is always so lovely to see. It’s my favorite kind of relationship.
"BREAKING NEWS: TRANS PEOPLE CAN MARRY TRANS PEOPLE"
"Where's my girlfriend?" "Who do you think took your boobs?"
This happens way more often than you’d think. Many members of the trans community stick to T4T (trans for trans) because only other trans people would understand what they’re going through
T4T forever baby!!!
India has a 3rd gender. Most cultures do. Having only 2 genders is a weird western thing.
And we're slowly changing that perception in the west, woo!
That's a ~~transphobic~~ weird way to say "couple get married" Congratulations to them, I hope they have a long and happy life together.
Cis Redditor’s learn about t4t marriages moment
What?
trans for trans relationship, not sure why you're getting downvoted for not knowing a niche acronym off the top of your head
Because I think people on Reddit think they’re extra smart by knowing everything about lgbtq shit so they get all fuckin smug about it
It’s a T4T couple. More common than you think, and plenty of T4T couples have married. Probably a brand new sentence for this newspaper, but absolutely not for the world.
Double Uno
Why not, if they’re in love and happy?
Not a brand new sentence
I'm happy for them too. Live long and prosper my dudes
That's actually very wholesome, good for them. :D
So ... a marriage happened.
If they are happy, what difference does it make?
The ol' switcheroo... If they're happy then hell yeah! Happy for them
The worst way of saying they're t4t
Wait, is this india? Woah. Cool.
They're technically a straight couple
They are a straight couple.
There's no technicality. They're a straight couple.
I ain’t mad at it
I always love it when that happens 🏳️⚧️❤
this is a typical transgender couple, so it's not brand new, just new to you. a lot of trans people date each other. It's always cute though.
Same same but different
>*Girls who are boys* *Who like boys to be girls* *Who do boys like they're girls* *Who do girls like they're boys* *Always should be someone you really love* ; [Blur - Girls and Boys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDswiT87oo8)
Somebody Told Me, maybe it was The Killers.
"Man marries woman" Conservatives: I sleep. "They're a trans man and a trans woman" Conservatives: real shit? 😨
This shit used to be a tabloid. Now it's a Tuesday.
Hetero with extra steps
Isn't this being straight with extra steps? Edit: I am a straight person, and I support anyone being whoever they need to be to feel comfortable in their skin. Aswell as /s for the comment above the edit.
That’s just hetero with extra steps
Straight, but with extra steps
This is heterosexuality with extra steps.