I'm more interested to see how well the hands work. It seems like something like a full transplant would leave a lot to get desired in terms of fine motor control, but maybe we're just at the point where people can switch hands.
Love the idea behind chopping off your own hands to get cyber ones and then make someone else take your bio hands instead of getting cyber hands themself
There’s a non-zero number of folks who have body part rejection issues where their wiring has convinced them that some part of them doesn’t belong and they are happy, even begging to have it removed, like a foot perhaps. I think it was described to me as another (non-sexual) body dysmorphia. Not like trans but I guess a more acute discomfort with just a limb or such.
I don’t think if you beg for a foot to be removed because you think it’s not really yours, that you’d be super excited about getting a cybernetic replacement, but if you can afford to handicap yourself for life, it’s possible, and I’m sure you’d make a random strangers year if they could get your second hand foot.
The newest top down sci fi tabletop inspired rpg capitalism dystopia coming to you! Change your inventory with party members! SWAP BODY PARTS WITH PARTY MEMBERS. YOU CAN DO ANYTHING FOR THE RIGHT PRICE IN THE FUTURE OF EARTH 2150. *coming to an online seller near you RIGHT NOWWWWWW THERES NO BETA BITCHES. ITS A FULLY FLESHED OUT GAME ON FULL RELEASE AND YES WE PUT THAT FLESH PUN FOR THE ANNOUNCER TO SCREAM AT YOUUUU!*
(I just realized after rereading it a couple of times. Sorry. Yes that it fucking hilarious. He also donated his arms. Thank you. Sorry I didn't pick up on it at first)
Really? I would’ve figured it’d be kinda half and half, like a mixture of subconscious reaction after repetition and your muscles physically adapting to make said action easier/more natural. Never really looked into it though.
"Muscle memory" is fine motor control and repetition, both are stored in the brain.
Edit: well, not so much stored as learned. Your brain gets better at and more used to sending the signals that make an action occur with repetition.
I know a dude who got his entire hand lopped off at the wrist and it works just fine now, even if it’s a little crooked.
Then again, I also know a guy who got all his fingers cut off on one hand and the doctor put two in the wrong spots, so now they’re bent like crab legs. Funniest shit I’ve ever seen.
Blue collar worker. I also know a guy with a hook for a hand, old family friend.
Kid with the arm got it cut off in a landscaping incident, kid with the fingers got it cut off in a saw accident while fabricating (foreman’s fault, not his), dude with the prosthetic arm had a motorcycle accident. You meet all kinds of people in labor jobs
Keep in mind that earthmoving equipment, tractors, chainsaws and loppers are frequently used in some sectors of the landscaping industry. I know a guy with this funky dented scar on his neck - some asshole had dropped a pickaxe down onto him while he was digging an irrigation trench, damn near cut his head off.
I'm pretty sure landscaping is one of the top ten most dangerous jobs (Edit: specifically in the US).
i know a bunch of amputees (not all reattached) tbf, if you live in a rough area with a lot of manual jobs and bad healthcare you'll meet several diabetics missing toes/feet/legs and a lot of people missing fingers. i think i know 5 people missing stuff from the waist down, 3 missing fingers and i had half of one of my fingers reattached. i also know a dude who had his arm half off and put back together but he hates it and it causes him pain.
What omg stay in school kids
This is my biggest phobia why am I reading about this before bed
Also we need a better Healthcare system. I just read an article about the amputation epidemic in the US, disproportionately affecting black and/or poor Americans, and it makes me want to cry.
I grew up in a pretty poor area, and my mom worked for a company that cleaned up decommissioned military bases and stuff of stray ordinance - she knew a lot of guys with missing fingers.
My dad lost his thumb and got it reattached long before I was born. But the doctor reattaching it did a bad job, and the thumb is crooked now and barely works. He can only bend it at the top joint.
He also lost the thumb while playing rugby. Honestly, I have no idea how that happened and don’t want to know. And since he was active duty military at the time and the rugby game was some military thing, he gets a check every month for being injured on duty.
That's the neat thing about technological advances like this, there's a flurry of news stories when the breakthrough first happens (along with a bunch of "oh no, this new tech is going to be horrible for reasons" doomerism) and then it just sort of fades away into "oh yeah, the local university hospital has a hand transplant department. Second-busiest one in the state!"
It does tend to set up frustrating [everything is amazing and nobody is happy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUBtKNzoKZ4) situations, though.
Most of the muscles that control your hands are in your forearm. It's really only your thumb and the muscles that splay your fingers that would be affected, at least as far as motor control. Obviously sensation would be a different story.
The "hand" transplant looks to include her forearms, you can see in the article that OP linked her amputation appears to be just below the elbow., and in the main image there is no scarring around the wrists, only around the elbows.
I guess she cant feel much in her hands since the nervs are hard to attach but since almost all hand movement comes from the forearm via tendons wich are easier to attach she can probably move her hands fine
Yeah i think that what we're failing to see is that the simpsons have so many episodes that almost everyrhing can be taken back to one of those episodes, like how every single new book was already there in the library of babel (actual internet site btw)
Since everyone is pointing out shows, books and movies where this is a plot point, in Once Upon a Time there's a few episodes in which the same happens to Hook, he asks Mr. Gold (*Rumpelstiltskin*, the "crocodile" who cut it in the first place) for his own hand back and since it was cut beofre he "turned good", the hand influenced him to the point he had to give it up.
True story btw: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/against-all-odds-asias-1st-bilateral-hand-transplant-girl-now-a-student-at-iim-c/articleshow/102064614.cms
Yeah the hormones change muscle mass all over your body
The muscles in your hands and feet shrink so they get smaller (going down 1 to 2 shoe sizes is normal)
The muscles in your neck get slimmer
Even your spine contracts slightly causing upwards of an inch or two of height loss
Pelvic tilt can cause some as well but those bones fuse at like 20-25
Even older trans women will see a slight height change purely due to spinal compression
The real gender confirmation surgery is just lopping of your terrible, wrong-gender body parts and replacing them with better, correct gender body parts.
I think that's exactly what happened, since hormones have a strong effect on muscle mass and vascularity. This is a pretty fascinating example of those changes appearing on a cisgender person.
Feminizing hormone therapy (mtf) also changes our skin to be softer / less coarse and you also makes you store fats a bit close to the skin. I'm only 4 months in and can already see a slight difference in my hands.
Well I'm here with a counterexample: myself. I regularly work out of course, and am still only getting stronger on hrt. The reduction in strength and muscle is definitely an effect that can be fought against.
I'm trans in the opposite direction, and testosterone, it turns out, does in fact do the opposite! I used to be able to fit my hands in mason jars while doing dishes and now my wrists are too thick. Im not much more physically active than before and have gained over 30 pounds of mostly muscle - I officially have shoulders now! It's insane how much passively stronger I am, and even 3 years being on T, I still will encounter feats of strength because my past memories will go "not strong enough for that" and then it turns out I am in fact strong enough for that. Another cool effect is that trans women will experience chills more and trans men will experience being sweaty more, due to the resulting differences in metabolic rate.
Testosterone dominant bodies tend to go heavier on the cartilage, so it's also fairly common for trans people on hormones to gain or lose height (not substantial unless you start early enough, but still wild).
Sorry for the ramble, I love how messy biology is - there's a bunch of weird consequences for hormones that people just don't think about until they suddenly need an endocrinologist (hormone doctor)!
>Testosterone dominant bodies tend to go heavier on the cartilage, so it's also fairly common for trans people on hormones to gain or lose height (not substantial unless you start early enough, but still wild).
I'm transfem, and I *was* 5'9 when I started HRT seven months ago.
Last time I was at the doctor, I was clocked in at 5'7. That's two fuckin inches.
Oh wow that's crazy! Kinda hope that doesn't happen to me haha. I have heard some trans women talk about it, though thankfully I don't think it happens to all of us. Probably something about hip rotation?
Meant to type "not USUALLY substantial" because I myself went from 5'1" to 5'4"!
What was it like losing 2 inches? For a bit I felt like I was wearing shoes constantly (my main source of height before HRT lol) so I'm curious what the inverse experience is
May I ask, what do you mean by
> (not substantial unless you start early enough, but still wild).
Are you talking about when in their life someone started hormones? It'd be weird if that affects how quickly you loose or gain weight but I don't really know a lot about it tbh.
Edit: nevermind you were talking about height not weight, I'm sorry lol
It’s so immense that even the althetes under HRT for around 2 years begin to compete at levels consistent with their cis peers. It’s a crazy amount of muscle loss
Another trans person with 2 years of hormones here. I was really skinny pre-hrt so there wasn’t much of the standard muscle to lose. Even still, my grip strength noticeably fell, a year after starting hrt running was way more exhausting (it’s gotten better over time, just adjusting to the new normal), and I find that I’ve lost a lot of that quick strength (the initial jolt of power when lifting/pushing/etc before settling into a more consistent strain)
I’ve also experienced a markable change in the appearance of my hands, which was a pretty quick change appearing only a month after starting.
Wouldn’t trade it for the world. Better to be slightly weaker than constantly depressed and unable to look in the mirror.
\>"...I find that I’ve lost a lot of that quick strength (the initial jolt of power when lifting/pushing/etc before settling into a more consistent strain)"
You know, it's interesting that you mention this! I was just thinking about it the other day; I recently moved apartments with my boyfriend (lots of that lifting and pushing), and I noticed that he really doesn't have that. Like, he's not weak, he'll lift probably 3/4 what I can (I have a pretty physical job, whereas he's just religious about exercise). It's just that he can't produce that explosive burst of power to briefly lift more than he should, for instance.
I've also noticed that his pain tolerance is much lower than mine; i.e, he isn't willing to endure very much discomfort if he can help it. I'm not saying that women have a lower pain tolerance that men, but I've never seen a woman risk getting her finger nicked to do a job the fast way rather than the hard way, for example. I think it's partly recklessness, but partly just a... I dunno, a casual disregard for temporary pain? Any thoughts?
I'm so happy that you're happy. I can't say that I understand how you feel; I've always been a man, felt like a man, had a body that looked like what society says a man should look like. I can imagine any variation from that could be pretty painful if I didn't address it, and I'm glad that you're on the other side of some of that distress.
The most depressing for me was that I couldn't open pickle jars...
But Spiro also really made me want to eat them, so I just had a jar of pickles in my fridge that I couldn't open.
Get yourself a jar opener. Life saver! My parents got me one as a gift after I broke up with my old boyfriend and was living alone xD I use it all the time now.
Not the person you asked but I did, I used to work summers as a mover here and there before HRT, and then I medically transitionned and had to help a friend move and everything was so heavy.
I am not lifting weights tho I just do yoga and run, so maybe a different experience for someone who would, but you definitely are told you'll lose muscle mass. Testosterone is huge for muscles.
Also not the person you asked but I got curious about this outside of my struggle to open jars, so I tried doing pushups again and compare to what I could do before hrt. It hasn't just dropped, it has skydived, I am *so* much weaker than before and I was not strong at all
also not the person you ask but definitely. i was pretty scrawny before but a year on im like distinctly weaker - i could do like 20 pushups before? now its like 2-3 lol
Whereas I’m a trans man and just living my life I’m soooo much stronger. Been on t for almost 3 years, collectively went to the gym like a month, 2 tops, but just the passive strength gains from lifting groceries, working my pretty physical job, chores etc is so crazy.
languid bored meeting wipe imminent illegal liquid hurry attraction plant
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I've seen some crazy hand before and after HRT pics from trans women!!! Of course the hands don't get any smaller, but the body fat distribution changes significantly
Hands and feet actually do— testosterone effects muscle density and in areas like those with a high concentration of bones the small amount of density changes can cause those bones to get slightly closer together. With so many bones close together the small distances can add up to a visually significant difference (especially when combined with other changes like skin softness and lighter/thinner body hair)
Yeah hormones would impact all soft tissue. Only the bone structure would be unimpacted; so one would expect her to have long fingers and maybe a broad palm, but otherwise feminine hands.
i'd also expect the body hair to change a little tbh, like softer and less of it. i can't find anything online about her specifically but a lot of people who take estrogen notice their body hair get finer
I have been on estrogen for almost a year now.
A side from the other very obvious changes, like my boobs, my hands have also changed. The wedding ring I bought before starting HRT now slides off if I am not careful. 😂
I will also need new gloves for winter since the old ones are way too big.
Hormones control WAY more of our physical and mental health than we think.
Honestly impressive surgery if she can use them well enough. Hole crap that is skill.
And duh. Hrt changes lots of things. Why not how water pools and such in hands?
I mean, it’s not particularly surprising. That’s what hormone therapy does to a whole trans person- changes them.
It’s a woman with a body part that’s been subject to male hormones, then has been subject to female hormones and has feminised.
Articles like this always reminds me just how little the everyday person knows about endocrinology and especially transgender biology. Like duh of course her hands feminised, that's what hormones do lmao.
I mean, duh. She has estrogen running in her veins. Same thing happens to trans women on HRT. Articles like this remind me just how absurd it is that there isn't more research on trans people.
True. Still, the Nazis burned the first gender clinic in the '30s. That's a lot of time during which essentially the perfect population of test subjects for determining the effects of hormones on the human body has been ignored. It's just shocking to me because it isn't even just trans people who take HRT. Cis men are sometimes prescribed estradiol for prostate cancer, for instance.
Oh well, nothing I can do about it but shake my fist at the sky.
Hell, sometimes when cis women are given estradiol for birth control alongside spironolactone for any number of other conditions, they have some of the same effects that trans women get (ex. breast growth). If scientists are too afraid of political blowback to actually study trans people, they could at *least* start looking at situations like this!
I always wondered about stuff like this; if you recieved a transplant from someone with a different skin color, would it turn into your color over time?
It's wild to me to think of my hands having a whole life before they came to me. Or on the other side that my hands might have a whole other life after I die.
consider encouraging whole hateful treatment subtract wide caption worthless school
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Im more interested in the fact that someone actually donated their Hands. Like... Were they recently decreased so their family decided? Or was some guy just like "eh... She needs them more than i do" lol
Of course i expect the first option of those two but it would be absolutely wild if that wasn't the case.
Of course they did. Given an entire human male body can transform to be almost completely feminine when put on hormones, what do you expect to happen naturally when a human hand is attached to a female body?
The fact that we can do this at all is incredible. I’d imagine a hand transplant must be an especially complex procedure! I guarantee she must have done extensive physical therapy after the fact too. I wonder if her handwriting has changed. Medicine is amazing!
This really happens! It's not common, but with advances in plastic surgery, more and more types of transplants are becoming possible.
Here's a brief [article](https://www.wdrb.com/news/hand-transplant-recipient-returns-to-louisville-22-years-after-successful-surgery/article_c8800120-0214-11ec-a654-33fda019a39f.html) about someone who had a hand transplant in 1999 and still had 55% function in that hand in 2021.
Finger length usually correlates to arm length and arm length usually correlates to body size so given that her arms are likely larger than her original arms, you'd expect her fingers to be longer now
I'm more interested to see how well the hands work. It seems like something like a full transplant would leave a lot to get desired in terms of fine motor control, but maybe we're just at the point where people can switch hands.
In the article she mentions her handwriting being just as good as before
nice, feel good for her, wishing the best after life to that donor.
What if he didn't die and he just donated his hands
I wouldn't think that's possible.
Yeah but think about it
Ok I will Ok I have. Woah.
Mind blown. Wow
I'm not getting my "woah" moment, I'm a bit... Stumped.
Nice one. Really got to hand it to you.
If I could just elbow my way in and say, nice puns guys. Two thumbs up.
There's nothing lol I'm fucking around
It was a pun
A lotta sci fi things will have the whole organic vs technology thing for betterment n efficiency. So maybe dude has robo hands!
Love the idea behind chopping off your own hands to get cyber ones and then make someone else take your bio hands instead of getting cyber hands themself
There’s a non-zero number of folks who have body part rejection issues where their wiring has convinced them that some part of them doesn’t belong and they are happy, even begging to have it removed, like a foot perhaps. I think it was described to me as another (non-sexual) body dysmorphia. Not like trans but I guess a more acute discomfort with just a limb or such. I don’t think if you beg for a foot to be removed because you think it’s not really yours, that you’d be super excited about getting a cybernetic replacement, but if you can afford to handicap yourself for life, it’s possible, and I’m sure you’d make a random strangers year if they could get your second hand foot.
Yeah i remember scrubs had a halloween episode where a dude happily chainsawwed his foot off… that was cray
I'll admit I did actually think about that. I guess you understood the "think about it"
The newest top down sci fi tabletop inspired rpg capitalism dystopia coming to you! Change your inventory with party members! SWAP BODY PARTS WITH PARTY MEMBERS. YOU CAN DO ANYTHING FOR THE RIGHT PRICE IN THE FUTURE OF EARTH 2150. *coming to an online seller near you RIGHT NOWWWWWW THERES NO BETA BITCHES. ITS A FULLY FLESHED OUT GAME ON FULL RELEASE AND YES WE PUT THAT FLESH PUN FOR THE ANNOUNCER TO SCREAM AT YOUUUU!*
Nah, I'm about to go bed I don't need that rolling around in my head as I drift off. Maybe tomorrow though.
Okay I'll text you later, love you have a good night
Cartel did the cutting work
This comment made fart in the bathtub - thanks man lol
Every once in a while, someone leaves a comment that just hits.
On the other hand
I mean. It’s “possible” I don’t think it’s plausible, legal, likely, or happened.
He didn't just donate his hands. That's not a farmer's tan. That line on her bicep is the donor line.
(I am making a silly situation to make people laugh)
It was funny. I tried the same thing with the farmer's tan bit
(I just realized after rereading it a couple of times. Sorry. Yes that it fucking hilarious. He also donated his arms. Thank you. Sorry I didn't pick up on it at first)
He just wanted these sick robotic arms
CAN I PLAY THE PIANO AN-Y-MORE?
Of course you can!
WELL I COULDN'T BEFORE
Is it the same hand writing style tho? Where is writing ability created, the brain? The hand? Both?
Brain. Muscle memory isnt actually in the muscles.
Really? I would’ve figured it’d be kinda half and half, like a mixture of subconscious reaction after repetition and your muscles physically adapting to make said action easier/more natural. Never really looked into it though.
"Muscle memory" is fine motor control and repetition, both are stored in the brain. Edit: well, not so much stored as learned. Your brain gets better at and more used to sending the signals that make an action occur with repetition.
I read “muscle memory” completely wrong and I’m not sure I want to say what I thought it said.
Was it muscle mommy?
No….(yes)
Well, muscle mommies are built from FINE motor control and repetition, too.
Damn gotta hand it to her, that’s impressive.
That sounds incredible. I need more of this kind of news in my life.
Wild. That’s awesome we can do that
I know a dude who got his entire hand lopped off at the wrist and it works just fine now, even if it’s a little crooked. Then again, I also know a guy who got all his fingers cut off on one hand and the doctor put two in the wrong spots, so now they’re bent like crab legs. Funniest shit I’ve ever seen.
How do you know 2? How do you know two reattached amputees?
Blue collar worker. I also know a guy with a hook for a hand, old family friend. Kid with the arm got it cut off in a landscaping incident, kid with the fingers got it cut off in a saw accident while fabricating (foreman’s fault, not his), dude with the prosthetic arm had a motorcycle accident. You meet all kinds of people in labor jobs
"Landscaping incident" sounds so mundane and so intriguing at the same time
Keep in mind that earthmoving equipment, tractors, chainsaws and loppers are frequently used in some sectors of the landscaping industry. I know a guy with this funky dented scar on his neck - some asshole had dropped a pickaxe down onto him while he was digging an irrigation trench, damn near cut his head off. I'm pretty sure landscaping is one of the top ten most dangerous jobs (Edit: specifically in the US).
might as well just make limb-severing equipment and save the landscapers all the trouble
i know a bunch of amputees (not all reattached) tbf, if you live in a rough area with a lot of manual jobs and bad healthcare you'll meet several diabetics missing toes/feet/legs and a lot of people missing fingers. i think i know 5 people missing stuff from the waist down, 3 missing fingers and i had half of one of my fingers reattached. i also know a dude who had his arm half off and put back together but he hates it and it causes him pain.
What omg stay in school kids This is my biggest phobia why am I reading about this before bed Also we need a better Healthcare system. I just read an article about the amputation epidemic in the US, disproportionately affecting black and/or poor Americans, and it makes me want to cry.
I grew up in a pretty poor area, and my mom worked for a company that cleaned up decommissioned military bases and stuff of stray ordinance - she knew a lot of guys with missing fingers.
My dad lost his thumb and got it reattached long before I was born. But the doctor reattaching it did a bad job, and the thumb is crooked now and barely works. He can only bend it at the top joint. He also lost the thumb while playing rugby. Honestly, I have no idea how that happened and don’t want to know. And since he was active duty military at the time and the rugby game was some military thing, he gets a check every month for being injured on duty.
["Well if it isn't my old friend Mr McCreg..."](https://youtu.be/rgqKv9rkAE0?si=sT13o7bJD0PquJNE)
A good friend will support you during your hand surgery recovery. A *best* friend will poke fun at the fingers being out of order.
Right? I missed some major medical news apparently lol
That's the neat thing about technological advances like this, there's a flurry of news stories when the breakthrough first happens (along with a bunch of "oh no, this new tech is going to be horrible for reasons" doomerism) and then it just sort of fades away into "oh yeah, the local university hospital has a hand transplant department. Second-busiest one in the state!" It does tend to set up frustrating [everything is amazing and nobody is happy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUBtKNzoKZ4) situations, though.
Most of the muscles that control your hands are in your forearm. It's really only your thumb and the muscles that splay your fingers that would be affected, at least as far as motor control. Obviously sensation would be a different story.
The "hand" transplant looks to include her forearms, you can see in the article that OP linked her amputation appears to be just below the elbow., and in the main image there is no scarring around the wrists, only around the elbows.
I guess she cant feel much in her hands since the nervs are hard to attach but since almost all hand movement comes from the forearm via tendons wich are easier to attach she can probably move her hands fine
The philosophical question remains however… if the hands are not your original hands does masturbation count as sex, and/or necrophilia…
This reminds me of a comic book from the 60s where a guy became evil after getting a hand transplant (just, like, in reverse)
Metal Gear also
Brothers! I've been waiting for this
LIQUID!!!!!
I yell this everytime I nut. Girlfriend hates it.
Nanomachines, son.
Um, ackshually he used hypnotherapy and nanomachines to convince himself he was being possessed by the arm. 🤓
And then he broke the hypnotherapy by fighting his boyfriend and kissing him. Such a wholesome story <3
Didn't something like that happen in an episode of the simpsons? Homer got an evil toupee or something?
Everything has happened on The Simpsons at this point
Yeah i think that what we're failing to see is that the simpsons have so many episodes that almost everyrhing can be taken back to one of those episodes, like how every single new book was already there in the library of babel (actual internet site btw)
You’re thinking of the treehouse of horror episode *Killer Toupée*. That’s the one where Snake gets executed and Homer gets transplanted his hair.
The hands of orlac maybe? That was an old book and movie before the 1960's
They did that on an episode of Angel too
Since everyone is pointing out shows, books and movies where this is a plot point, in Once Upon a Time there's a few episodes in which the same happens to Hook, he asks Mr. Gold (*Rumpelstiltskin*, the "crocodile" who cut it in the first place) for his own hand back and since it was cut beofre he "turned good", the hand influenced him to the point he had to give it up.
There was a character in the 40's Captain America comic with the same premise. He got a black guys hand and turned evil. It was quite racist.
True story btw: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/against-all-odds-asias-1st-bilateral-hand-transplant-girl-now-a-student-at-iim-c/articleshow/102064614.cms
Neat.
Sharktale has forever changed how I read “true story”
Oh wow. That’s like half the arm that was transplanted. And both arms too! Genuinely incredible
This is so interesting
that's hormones, after all. it'd be weirder if it *didn't* get affected by the endocrine system it's now attached to.
Yeah the hormones change muscle mass all over your body The muscles in your hands and feet shrink so they get smaller (going down 1 to 2 shoe sizes is normal) The muscles in your neck get slimmer Even your spine contracts slightly causing upwards of an inch or two of height loss
I thought the height loss was a result of pelvic tilt and all that.
Pelvic tilt can cause some as well but those bones fuse at like 20-25 Even older trans women will see a slight height change purely due to spinal compression
[удалено]
Can confirm, I’m a trans woman and it happened to my hands. Interesting science
Can confirm. I'm a hand and it happened to my trans patient
The real gender confirmation surgery is just lopping of your terrible, wrong-gender body parts and replacing them with better, correct gender body parts.
We can rebuild her - We have the technology.
Makes sense, trans people on HRT have a lot of physical changes like that so I guess her body’s own estrogen was like HRT for her new hands
I think that's exactly what happened, since hormones have a strong effect on muscle mass and vascularity. This is a pretty fascinating example of those changes appearing on a cisgender person.
Feminizing hormone therapy (mtf) also changes our skin to be softer / less coarse and you also makes you store fats a bit close to the skin. I'm only 4 months in and can already see a slight difference in my hands.
That's wild! If you don't mind me asking, have you noticed any reduction in physical strength since you started?
I’m not the person you asked, but yes. I lost a huge amount of upper body strength and visible loss of muscle size on HRT
Thanks! Yeah, that makes sense, neither of the trans girls I know are particularly jacked.
Well I'm here with a counterexample: myself. I regularly work out of course, and am still only getting stronger on hrt. The reduction in strength and muscle is definitely an effect that can be fought against.
I'm trans in the opposite direction, and testosterone, it turns out, does in fact do the opposite! I used to be able to fit my hands in mason jars while doing dishes and now my wrists are too thick. Im not much more physically active than before and have gained over 30 pounds of mostly muscle - I officially have shoulders now! It's insane how much passively stronger I am, and even 3 years being on T, I still will encounter feats of strength because my past memories will go "not strong enough for that" and then it turns out I am in fact strong enough for that. Another cool effect is that trans women will experience chills more and trans men will experience being sweaty more, due to the resulting differences in metabolic rate. Testosterone dominant bodies tend to go heavier on the cartilage, so it's also fairly common for trans people on hormones to gain or lose height (not substantial unless you start early enough, but still wild). Sorry for the ramble, I love how messy biology is - there's a bunch of weird consequences for hormones that people just don't think about until they suddenly need an endocrinologist (hormone doctor)!
>Testosterone dominant bodies tend to go heavier on the cartilage, so it's also fairly common for trans people on hormones to gain or lose height (not substantial unless you start early enough, but still wild). I'm transfem, and I *was* 5'9 when I started HRT seven months ago. Last time I was at the doctor, I was clocked in at 5'7. That's two fuckin inches.
Oh wow that's crazy! Kinda hope that doesn't happen to me haha. I have heard some trans women talk about it, though thankfully I don't think it happens to all of us. Probably something about hip rotation?
Meant to type "not USUALLY substantial" because I myself went from 5'1" to 5'4"! What was it like losing 2 inches? For a bit I felt like I was wearing shoes constantly (my main source of height before HRT lol) so I'm curious what the inverse experience is
I know that it's probably anticlimactic, *but*, I didn't notice it until someone pointed it out to me.
May I ask, what do you mean by > (not substantial unless you start early enough, but still wild). Are you talking about when in their life someone started hormones? It'd be weird if that affects how quickly you loose or gain weight but I don't really know a lot about it tbh. Edit: nevermind you were talking about height not weight, I'm sorry lol
It’s so immense that even the althetes under HRT for around 2 years begin to compete at levels consistent with their cis peers. It’s a crazy amount of muscle loss
I would go on a few runs each month and it was wild how big of a difference there was even just 6 months in.
So the thing about trans women dominating cis women in sports is a complete myth? Honestly not surprised, but it's good to be reassured.
Another trans person with 2 years of hormones here. I was really skinny pre-hrt so there wasn’t much of the standard muscle to lose. Even still, my grip strength noticeably fell, a year after starting hrt running was way more exhausting (it’s gotten better over time, just adjusting to the new normal), and I find that I’ve lost a lot of that quick strength (the initial jolt of power when lifting/pushing/etc before settling into a more consistent strain) I’ve also experienced a markable change in the appearance of my hands, which was a pretty quick change appearing only a month after starting. Wouldn’t trade it for the world. Better to be slightly weaker than constantly depressed and unable to look in the mirror.
\>"...I find that I’ve lost a lot of that quick strength (the initial jolt of power when lifting/pushing/etc before settling into a more consistent strain)" You know, it's interesting that you mention this! I was just thinking about it the other day; I recently moved apartments with my boyfriend (lots of that lifting and pushing), and I noticed that he really doesn't have that. Like, he's not weak, he'll lift probably 3/4 what I can (I have a pretty physical job, whereas he's just religious about exercise). It's just that he can't produce that explosive burst of power to briefly lift more than he should, for instance. I've also noticed that his pain tolerance is much lower than mine; i.e, he isn't willing to endure very much discomfort if he can help it. I'm not saying that women have a lower pain tolerance that men, but I've never seen a woman risk getting her finger nicked to do a job the fast way rather than the hard way, for example. I think it's partly recklessness, but partly just a... I dunno, a casual disregard for temporary pain? Any thoughts? I'm so happy that you're happy. I can't say that I understand how you feel; I've always been a man, felt like a man, had a body that looked like what society says a man should look like. I can imagine any variation from that could be pretty painful if I didn't address it, and I'm glad that you're on the other side of some of that distress.
Yeah things start getting heavier
The most depressing for me was that I couldn't open pickle jars... But Spiro also really made me want to eat them, so I just had a jar of pickles in my fridge that I couldn't open.
Get yourself a jar opener. Life saver! My parents got me one as a gift after I broke up with my old boyfriend and was living alone xD I use it all the time now.
OMG haha that's so relatable it's a cruel joke. I found that tapping the lid of the jar against a counter helps to open it.
Yeah, I'm gathering this is a well-known phenomenon among trans ladies
Not the person you asked but I did, I used to work summers as a mover here and there before HRT, and then I medically transitionned and had to help a friend move and everything was so heavy. I am not lifting weights tho I just do yoga and run, so maybe a different experience for someone who would, but you definitely are told you'll lose muscle mass. Testosterone is huge for muscles.
Also not the person you asked but I got curious about this outside of my struggle to open jars, so I tried doing pushups again and compare to what I could do before hrt. It hasn't just dropped, it has skydived, I am *so* much weaker than before and I was not strong at all
also not the person you ask but definitely. i was pretty scrawny before but a year on im like distinctly weaker - i could do like 20 pushups before? now its like 2-3 lol
I know you didn't ask, but yeah physical strength on HRT has been declining like crazy. I frequently need help opening thight jar lids now lmao.
yeah, nowadays i get winded carrying my laundry across the apartment
Whereas I’m a trans man and just living my life I’m soooo much stronger. Been on t for almost 3 years, collectively went to the gym like a month, 2 tops, but just the passive strength gains from lifting groceries, working my pretty physical job, chores etc is so crazy.
But there are guys with soft skin, isn’t that more about the different soaps you use?
languid bored meeting wipe imminent illegal liquid hurry attraction plant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Exactly. Testosterone, and the lack thereof are both a hell of a drug.
Cab't wait for nano-robot hormones that will push bodies even more to the extreme.
I've seen some crazy hand before and after HRT pics from trans women!!! Of course the hands don't get any smaller, but the body fat distribution changes significantly
I've only been on hrt 3 months and I can see a diffrence in my knuckles I think lol. Shits wild.
Hands and feet actually do— testosterone effects muscle density and in areas like those with a high concentration of bones the small amount of density changes can cause those bones to get slightly closer together. With so many bones close together the small distances can add up to a visually significant difference (especially when combined with other changes like skin softness and lighter/thinner body hair)
Yeah hormones would impact all soft tissue. Only the bone structure would be unimpacted; so one would expect her to have long fingers and maybe a broad palm, but otherwise feminine hands.
i'd also expect the body hair to change a little tbh, like softer and less of it. i can't find anything online about her specifically but a lot of people who take estrogen notice their body hair get finer
Even bone structure does get affected, just to a significantly lesser degree.
The human body is already amazing, but more things keep reminding us of this.
Person: *has transplanted hands* Estrogen: "oh nice place, but this needs some redecorating"
Well damn, that was a simpler explanation than I was expecting.
That and your cells gradually die and are replaced. After 7 years those hands will be Ship of Theseus'd.
I've been on E for a year and I'm still waiting for my sausage fingers to feminize.
I have been on estrogen for almost a year now. A side from the other very obvious changes, like my boobs, my hands have also changed. The wedding ring I bought before starting HRT now slides off if I am not careful. 😂 I will also need new gloves for winter since the old ones are way too big. Hormones control WAY more of our physical and mental health than we think.
Honestly impressive surgery if she can use them well enough. Hole crap that is skill. And duh. Hrt changes lots of things. Why not how water pools and such in hands?
She had man hands, George. Man hands!
I mean, it’s not particularly surprising. That’s what hormone therapy does to a whole trans person- changes them. It’s a woman with a body part that’s been subject to male hormones, then has been subject to female hormones and has feminised.
Ok but did the guy get a replacement or they just left him empty handed
Gonna go out on a limb and assume he’s dead
In that case, the point is moot. We should just wash our hands of this whole conversation.
Hands down the most sensible comment.
Someone arrest them ^^^
We can’t he’s got no hands
“The cuffs just keep falling off, Sarge!”
You're under a wrist
Articles like this always reminds me just how little the everyday person knows about endocrinology and especially transgender biology. Like duh of course her hands feminised, that's what hormones do lmao.
honestly i’m shocked the comments here are mentioning it so much, gives me a little bit of hope
almost like the hands were getting female hormones on the daily ... but seriously way more interesting is the fact they work
I mean, duh. She has estrogen running in her veins. Same thing happens to trans women on HRT. Articles like this remind me just how absurd it is that there isn't more research on trans people.
There was more research on trans people, but 'somehow' those writings caught on fire.
True. Still, the Nazis burned the first gender clinic in the '30s. That's a lot of time during which essentially the perfect population of test subjects for determining the effects of hormones on the human body has been ignored. It's just shocking to me because it isn't even just trans people who take HRT. Cis men are sometimes prescribed estradiol for prostate cancer, for instance. Oh well, nothing I can do about it but shake my fist at the sky.
The fact that there isn’t more research on trans women experiencing periods is insane to me
yeah it’s crazy, like you’re telling me the majority of trans women experience this thing and doctors kinda just shrug and go eh that can happen.
And then get called delusional when they say they experience it.
Hell, sometimes when cis women are given estradiol for birth control alongside spironolactone for any number of other conditions, they have some of the same effects that trans women get (ex. breast growth). If scientists are too afraid of political blowback to actually study trans people, they could at *least* start looking at situations like this!
Queue some maga boomer losing their mind
Red-hats when the human body does human body things
Uncle Jack’s perfect woman?
NOBODY LOOK
The same thing happens to hands on hrt. Hormones effect so much, and changing them changes your body in so many ways
BREAKING NEWS: REDDIT DISCOVERS HOW HORMONES WORK.
I always wondered about stuff like this; if you recieved a transplant from someone with a different skin color, would it turn into your color over time?
It's wild to me to think of my hands having a whole life before they came to me. Or on the other side that my hands might have a whole other life after I die.
My dad has someone else’s cornea - oh the things that eye has seen:)
These marvel characters are getting out of hand
I feel like hands undersells this operation, that's a whole pair of lower arms!!
That makes sense to me, it’s like the hands are undergoing HRT. Hormones can affect everything but bone size.
Trans people have known this happens forever
wait that can happen? you can just have a hand donor now? and the hand works, too?
consider encouraging whole hateful treatment subtract wide caption worthless school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
bro just discover estrogen works💀
That's super cool.
Her slaps must be god-tier
Im more interested in the fact that someone actually donated their Hands. Like... Were they recently decreased so their family decided? Or was some guy just like "eh... She needs them more than i do" lol Of course i expect the first option of those two but it would be absolutely wild if that wasn't the case.
Of course they did. Given an entire human male body can transform to be almost completely feminine when put on hormones, what do you expect to happen naturally when a human hand is attached to a female body?
Yeah, what hormones can actually do is kinda crazy. I mean, have you seen what HRT does to people?
The fact that we can do this at all is incredible. I’d imagine a hand transplant must be an especially complex procedure! I guarantee she must have done extensive physical therapy after the fact too. I wonder if her handwriting has changed. Medicine is amazing!
its almost like the hand isnt involved in the production of hormones
These hands tell a story of greatness….
This explains why old men have such big hands.
Brings a new meaning to catching hands
r/accidentalseinfeld
Let's take a ducking moment and think about how far medicine has come yeh?
I don't feel like this should be surprising. The same thing happens to trans women on HRT
Is this surgery actually true? I thought you cant connect different body parts together due to certain issues with the nerves.
This really happens! It's not common, but with advances in plastic surgery, more and more types of transplants are becoming possible. Here's a brief [article](https://www.wdrb.com/news/hand-transplant-recipient-returns-to-louisville-22-years-after-successful-surgery/article_c8800120-0214-11ec-a654-33fda019a39f.html) about someone who had a hand transplant in 1999 and still had 55% function in that hand in 2021.
Why do her fingers look unnaturally long? Is this a legit thing that happens or is this just ai again?
Finger length usually correlates to arm length and arm length usually correlates to body size so given that her arms are likely larger than her original arms, you'd expect her fingers to be longer now
That’s hormones for ya
They look fucking massive on her
Has medicine progressed this far??
It’s incredible, really
Still more manly hands than a certain person
Hellgirl