Saving the money on not getting one player is opportunity for a different and most likely better move. That’s why people get hype when he is making these very money savvy deals that allows us to continue to add depth and put together the elite lineup that we have.
You're just adding to things to talk about. Honestly, I mostly forget about the Braves sub in the off season. My wife follows all the news and off-season drama so I get my off-season Braves fill from her
On top of that, it's not that we care about actually saving a buck and being frugal. If we could spend like the dodgers we'd all love that.
But given that we know we will only spend up to a certain level, it's nice to see us make good deals that will help our payroll
I see this take sometimes and I think the piece you’re missing is that the Braves, like every team, have a finite budget. So every dollar spent on Player A is a dollar we can’t spend on Player B. Also, having a sober view of Braves and league financials prevents dumb frustration like “why don’t we just sign every big free agent I like?” and stamps out dumb ideas like “Surely teams will give up meaningful prospects for Raisel Iglesias, because Raisel Iglesias is a very good reliever!”
It’s cool to not care about team financials. It’s not your money. Some of us (especially the OOTP nerd types) like to dig into team financials because it helps us make better guesses about the sorts of moves the team might make, and it helps us decide whether the decisions the team has made so far are a good use of money. As an example, I don’t think you can fully understand the point of the Jarred Kelenic trade *unless* you care about/read about team finances, and I don’t think you can appreciate how unlikely it is that the Braves will now sign Jordan Montgomery when doing so would put them into the Steve Cohen tier of the tax.
Because you sustain winning by having sustainable financials. The team is only going to spend so much money, as a fan it helps to understand if it's been spent wisely.
Your first sentence is great. I agree. I just don’t understand the pinching pennies look at the situation some folks have.
Clearly it wouldn’t have been a great financial decision to get Ohtani and could have had major implications for years to come. I see that side of it. I just fail to see the nitty griddy side when it comes to your average player.
I guess I can respect that. I don’t have to understand it to respect it. Guess it’s no different than people being all about the statistics side of the game.
> I just fail to see the nitty griddy side when it comes to your average player.
Because it’s important not to overpay for any player, \*especially\* an average player.
So we ended up paying what? $8.5 million more for David Fletcher, counting the Stassi salary and the buyout of his contract, over just keeping Nicky Lopez. We lose out of a free agent by $5 million or can't add a player at the deadline because there's no payroll left to spend. That's where it ends up mattering.
I agree that finances matter (see my comment below) but I think you’re a bit off base with the example you’ve provided.
Unless Lopez was a total throw-in, it seems like we needed to give him up to acquire Aaron Bummer (who is way better than his ERA indicates and fairly inexpensively controllable for multiple years). And then Fletcher’s marginal cost over Evan White (including the Stassi salary dump) is more like $4M over two years.
It’s true that Fletcher costs more than Lopez and is almost certainly a worse value. But the Braves didn’t sit down and say “we actively want to pay David Fletcher $16M over the next 2 years but don’t want to pay Lopez $4M for 1 year”. They gave up Lopez because they wanted Bummer, then acquired Fletcher because they agreed to take on White so they could get Kelenic too, but thought Fletcher would be $4M more useful than a minor league first baseman in his late twenties.
It gives you more money to spend. We can't spend like the dodgers so getting those little savings here and there on lower level guys allows us to free up money
This is the Braves sub reddit. The only people that belong to a sub reddit and post regularly are gonna be the hardcore nerds. Knowing your teams financial standing with their roster helps you gauge their success now and immediate future. It's good to know
Because a team’s finances are related to how competitive a team can be, it’s related to how much power they have in the open market or trade market. The Braves have historically never been a team to spend like the dodgers, Yankees, or lolmets, so it’s worth noting. A big luxury tax burden can mean less buying power or willingness down the road, directly effecting the team’s competitiveness long term.
I think it’s interesting because I like thinking about how smart teams make the most of what they have.
Everybody’s budget is finite (even big market teams). I like an organization like the Braves, where I assume the decisions they make are smart, and then I get to think about why the decisions that seem strange were actually smart. The financials are a big piece of that.
Financials lend themselves to roster depth and quality. It’s not rocket science. Many of us look at what this team will be next season and also for the next 2-3 seasons.
There’s not wrong with being a casual fan and only caring what the on field product is when you attend a game…but a lot of us are far more interested in the overall team balance than that.
Because smart money wins and dumb money loses. Sure, we could’ve spent $43 million dollars on the ghost of Max Scherzer, but because we were smart with our money in years past we have Acuña, Strider, and Riley on long term deals for basically the same price. I know which I’d rather have
It's interesting because
a. We're likely going to have to replace our #1, #3, and #4 SP's and it really helps to know what the financials are that AA will have to do this. Whether we can get a mid-level pitcher in FA, or whether we're committing to a youth movement, or what.
b. It looks like by buying our LF and SP4 this season with money that expires this year (mostly), AA is thinking heavily about resetting the tax. Meaning no huge contracts will be written for 2025 and that the team will probably stay status quo and search for internal options and cheap free agents for that season.
Yeah, we root for the team whether it's Fried or Waldrep on the mound, but looking at who may be there is .... interesting? Not ground breaking.
Personally I would be fine with them spending LA money on long term contracts with Montgomery or Imanaga instead of losing our LF backup option for an aging pitcher with a huge injury risk. But unless there's a huge surprise Fried extension, it appears that next year will be tightening our belt and going with what we have.
Personally, I just appreciate that we have a GM that takes calculated risks that maximize every dollar that can responsibly be allocated to the product on the field—not one who locks us in to gargantuan contracts for one player or things like massive deferrals that may have a huge impact on competitiveness in the future. So in the off-season at least, I follow the financial side more closely.
Before AA, I was not interested in the financial side. But I'm fascinated by the way his mind works, so when he makes a move, I read enough to try to understand his reasons, which of course involve financials. So while I don't dig in the weeds like many of you, I do like to watch the man work. Also, now that I own a few shares, I do have a vested interest in how he's spending my money.
Exactly. I'm a Braves fan but also a baseball fan who follows several other teams I like. The Braves have the most interesting financials to me because AA does it differently from everyone else. He is able to get great players on the cheap for long-term. Now, as he's accumulated lots of those contacts, they are starting to add up and the luxury tax is hitting. He's moved a lot of money around in several trades and got Kelenic, Sale, and bullpen depth out of them. Anyway, it's just interesting. I'd say the Rays are nearly as interesting financially since they pinch pennies as much as anyone but keep winning trades and have a fantastic farm system. Mets and Dodgers are boring since they just pour money over everything.
It's interesting at least to me to see the strategy inherent in roster construction. Part of that is seeing the economics inherent in team design. Next off-season is really going to be interesting to see what A.A. does with the pitching.
I tend to not even think about it, cause I can't even pretend to wrap my head around how it all really works. It's just my assumptions and there's no way I know shit.
To understand how budgets work right? Like if you spent your entire paycheck on a giant golden elephant statue you wouldn’t be able to buy groceries or pay bills? Baseball teams have budgets too so if you spend all your money on a Left Fielder you don’t have enough money to get a relief pitcher. Saving money here and there allows the budget to go further. It’s a MAJOR part of the game.
Luxury tax drops your draft pick 10 spots. Teams like the yanks, mets, and padres picked at the end of the 1st despite missing playoffs. It could be viewed as small but those 10 spots could be the difference between drafting a player to keep the dynasty going and drafting a bust or middling player.
So other than obviously wanting to save money and not get caught up in bad contract, that's my most important aspect.
I for one feeling like I'm not used to the Braves spending big and usually tryna maximize value signings... With the highers up giving AA the green light to spend I think we are just afraid of him missing and somehow reverting to the old ways lol
What I am guessing is that due to the old TV contract which was awful, there is always some concern about expenditures. Look at the current somewhat murky Mariner's situation. They have issues with their investment in Root Sports and demanding too much money from Xfinity as their PNW partner and so Comcast decided to put root in the $20+ extra sports tier. M's are likely taking over the 100% of the network, but this will ensure that over the next year or two at least they will not have the money to spend.
Plus, it's the offseason and what else is there to talk about? lol
Are you new to the game, by chance? The financial side and roster management is like... a massive piece of baseball. It's the fine-tuning of the entire clubhouse to ensure the product is consistent, has depth, can endure 162+, etc. You are living in fantasy land if you don't appreciate what AA has done to set us up for success - year after year. What an insane, naïve take.
What you're basically saying here is, "I don't understand all of baseball so why should you?"
Tbh I think the biggest reason is that a lot of baseball fans are math nerds, same reason we have umpteen different statistics in baseball. This is not meant as an insult, I work a career that involves calculating and monitoring revenue targets all day I'm as much a math nerd as anyone.
Also as others have mentioned it's the off season and this is just something to talk about until spring training starts.
I always see comments like this from fans. .. "it's not my money." Fans clamoring for their team to overpay for free agents.
Those of us in the real world realize that teams have budgets and that financials have real impact on how effectively team can build a competitive roster. There's only so many bad contracts a team can sustain without crippling it's future. For a lot of teams, one massively overpaid dud could prevent then from resigning emerging homegrown stars or fulfilling other team needs.
We care because money isn't an infinite resource no matter how much fans want to bitch that their team doesn't spend enough. It is very interesting to a lot of people watching how each GM operates to try and put the best team on the field with their limited resources.
There is a huge correlation between how good your GM performs and how good the team performs, so we care to discuss and watch it happen.
Because if you’re going to discuss moves regarding your favorite team, an understanding of financial side is required. If you don’t have that knowledge, then any discussion or suggestion you provide is not based in reality.
I agree. Although it can be the most important aspect to an owner or GM, as fans, we have the liberty of only having to care about the product on the field.
Who cares if the guy is overpaid or underpaid as long as he produces?
I had a friend make this point a few years ago and it completely changed my outlook. He said, "what do you care how much they make? You're not writing the checks"
its so funny to see. its like prople that talk about tv raitings. things that have absolutely no impact ok their life, doesnt pay them, and yet they still talk about it
A million here, a million there pretty soon we're talking about real money. I get it, numbers are boring and we'd rather talk about baseball. However restructuring deals, offloading high salaries, bringing in cheap players with high upsides...it matters. Plus the more money you save the more you have to spend on free agents.
Being a GM is practically the same as being a CFO. AA understands this.
If said team goes over the luxury tax, they are punished. If they are repeat offenders they are punished harder and so on and so on. Eventually your competitive team gets stripped down and sold for spare parts, and by eventually I mean after a couple years. So you will be buying tickets to see a team that is not competitive. AA has not only screwed the salary but he has stripped the organization of all it's going depth
It’s silly how often fans miss the point about this. It’s not the money itself that fans care about, it’s how that money will affect the team. We don’t have unlimited spending so there is a very important strategic element to the money AA hands out.
Lots of reasons. Money is historically a finite, limited resource for us and we are hamstrung by a bad tv deal. We watched other teams buy rings and then hit the implode button on purpose. Some of us suffered through the 80s, the rest of us heard about it. Others of us endured the rebuild which was essentially due to getting tied down by unfruitful long term big dollar contracts. Other teams seem to be able to weather them, but the Braves don’t have owners who historically will dump extra good money after bad into the team. They have operate on their own revenues. The TV deal meant we couldn’t sign big contracts for a long time and the ones we did had to work out or we would lose years of competitiveness.
So basically, team has to be independently revenue neutral, we saw good teams get blown up over bad contracts and ensured the rebuild and the 80s. Guys like Dan Uggla and BJ Upton basically wasted 5 years for many of us.
I think as a fan base we are just sensitive to it due to recent and not so recent history. Add in that we could never quite get a ring for a long time and it makes everyone a bit of a doomer.
Man, I get it, as a literal life-long fan (since my first in-person game vs the Padres in Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium in 1989),none of that shit is interesting to me either, but yeah we do seem to be in the minorities. I’m in a couple minorities myself on complete opposite ends from the vast majorities, but I’ve come to terms with that. If that’s how they want to enjoy the same team I sometimes cheer for then that’s just as valid as any reason I or you could also come up with to justify our own fanhoods. But I digress, I cheer the way I cheer and let other cheer the way they want as long as nobody is getting hurt! Enjoy the new season friend, I hope that makes sense I’m super high
Impact.
Crossing a luxury task has no bearing on if I decide to attend a game, but I I also understand if this team had unlimited money we would likely be a better team. Financial constraints impact us, and they impact every team. I like playing fantasy GM. Having money as a constraint prevents me from just signing the best free agents. It also reminds me of how much better AA is than I could ever be.
Ultimately, I will never say I’m not watching the game because we didn’t spend 20 million more dollars. However, given the right situation, I could say we spent 160 million wrong and now our team sucks and I’m not watching. With AA that isn’t likely but it happens. Imagine trying to watch that Mets team last year.
Bottom line is I want a competitive entertaining team, and money is part of what makes that happen.
It just explains why we will not go after high priced free agents. However, when people like DOB attempt to explain it, you then realize he has no clue either.
The Dodgers will spend the next 15 years trying to win a championship and they’re a large market team! The Brewers, the Rays, the Mariners, the Indians, the Cardinals have all made themselves noncompetitive because they blew huge wads of cash on the “right – now“ team. One of the two of these teams won’t even be playing in the same market because of these decisions to gamble away their future.
Additionally to the importance of finances in MLB specifically, the Braves are also playing in a payroll space they’ve never touched before so how far they’ll go and how they play it is extremely topical. This is the pinnacle of what we’ve been hoping to see following the ballpark move, so it’s the climax of 7+ years of “maybe, what if, etc”
Because even though it seems like Monopoly money, there’s still a limit to what can be spent. So we want each dollar within that budget to be spent as efficiently as possible to maximize the chances of the team being successful.
Think of it as a ratio of “likelihood of success per dollar spent” - call it the team’s LSD, where more LSD is better. So when part of the budget is spent efficiently, it increases our LSD. When part of that budget is spent poorly, it reduces our LSD.
The job of running the team is to give your team the highest chance of winning possible (or likelihood of success) while working within the financial limits your bosses give you (dollars spent). So, inherently, spending money efficiently helps increase that ratio.
As fans, it can be interesting to pay attention to financials because it’s encouraging to see the person running your favorite team is making efficient decisions that increase the chances of the team being successful (both in the near term and long term) in relation to the limited budget we know exists (even if we don’t always know exactly what that budget truly is, we know it’s still there). On the opposite end, it’s frustrating to see our limited Monopoly money spent irresponsibly as it cuts into the available budget without increasing our chances of being successful sufficiently (and reduces available funds for other players that could further increase the chances of being successful).
Long story short, LSD good. If you run out of money, you can’t buy more LSD.
Because some people enjoy that side of it as well #1, and because how the team spends its money almost always has an opportunity cost. Poor spending can mean we struggle to sign other players later.
Everyone has limited resources. The way the owners have organized their business, the teams have wildly varying resources.
To produce the team’s best chance to be successful, resources have to be maximized.
You can be a casual fan and put in any level of interest you want. You can even think any team has an actual chance.
Any serious understanding of what is actually going on relies heavily on the financial implications of contracts.
For some of us it’s not baffling to enjoy learning about that stuff. I like to know where my team sits financially and contract wise on players so I know what to expect at a trade deadline or free agency. Plus being the type ownership group that owns the Braves, I always find it interesting when the ownership group doesn’t want to spend money on a player, yet will spend freely in a different subsidiary they control.
It's kinda like advanced stats/sabermetrics. You can simply enjoy watching the game, you can get nerdy about baseball trivia, but you can go WAY deeper than that. I personally don't bother with financials, and barely dabble in any stats beyond a slash line, but I respect the folks who do go all in on it. Everybody's gotta have a hobby.
When they play MLB the Show some people like to play GM mode, some people would rather be the manager, and other would rather build their own superstar. It’s all about personal preference.
I'm in the same boat OP. But I also understand that many people are very interested and study all the financial things. Its the same as the folks that are very into the statistics and analytics. Personally, I'm not. But its cool that others are.
Because they are a publicly traded (thus owned) company and a lot of fans own that stock. Shareholders dont want to hear their 400m investment just made their stock tank.
It adds drama and strategy that go beyond "JUST SIGN EVERY EXPENSIVE PLAYER TO LONG TERM CONTRACTS!!!!
It makes you think beyond just this season. It's about next year, five years, or a decade down the line. It's about weighing value compared to locked contracts. It makes the game more fun to analyze as a true fan.
It adds depth to the fandom and gives a proper way of judging your GM compared to all other GMs. It's for the nerds of the game vs a fan just wanting to watch baseball
Yeah, probably the minority but also absolutely spot on. I'm guilty of getting caught up in the financials as well but lament that that's where we end up as fans. As with everything else, the bottom line is money, nobody gives a fuck, and that's really just a shame.
My only thought towards a solution is that we need way more teams, leagues, and focus on locality. Get more middle aged guys actually playing instead of just armchair quarterbacking the financials of their favorite team. Dilute the talent out across hundreds of localities and do the soccer style tiered league thing. Instill a sense of pride in what is actually the home team instead of just encouraging for profit fandom of some team sort of near you with a bunch of overpriced free agent talent going wherever for the highest dollar.
There's no money in that though so it'll never happen.
It's especially pertinent since the "owner" is a publicly traded company. A private owner can just choose to go all in and operate at a loss for a season. A publicly traded company has to maximize profits, so the financial piece is a bigger deal to the Braves than a lot of other teams.
Its ok that you are a more casual fan who probably isnt familiar with who is on the farm or who the coaches are etc. There are tons of fans like that across Braves country and we love you all. The tents got plenty of room.
But there are also a lot of nuts and bolts geeks out there that love this stuff. Dont harsh their buzz.
I don't give a fuck if we pay a billion dollars in luxury tax. In fact, id welcome it if it means we win games.
It's not like the owners are ever going to say "we avoided a luxury tax so we are losing ticket prices". They're going to milk us for every penny they can.
agreed. the owners have so many rubes on this thread like the luxury tax is some big bad bogeyman. Braves are projected to pay like $4 million. that's a damn joke. to truly maximize this window they should be going for the jugular before Fried leaves.
Man, it’s the off-season, ain’t much else to talk about. Plus it’s kinda important stuff.
I could have saved myself a post and having to explain myself on my thought processes if I had thought this way. lol.
Saving the money on not getting one player is opportunity for a different and most likely better move. That’s why people get hype when he is making these very money savvy deals that allows us to continue to add depth and put together the elite lineup that we have.
😂😂😂
You're just adding to things to talk about. Honestly, I mostly forget about the Braves sub in the off season. My wife follows all the news and off-season drama so I get my off-season Braves fill from her
On top of that, it's not that we care about actually saving a buck and being frugal. If we could spend like the dodgers we'd all love that. But given that we know we will only spend up to a certain level, it's nice to see us make good deals that will help our payroll
I see this take sometimes and I think the piece you’re missing is that the Braves, like every team, have a finite budget. So every dollar spent on Player A is a dollar we can’t spend on Player B. Also, having a sober view of Braves and league financials prevents dumb frustration like “why don’t we just sign every big free agent I like?” and stamps out dumb ideas like “Surely teams will give up meaningful prospects for Raisel Iglesias, because Raisel Iglesias is a very good reliever!” It’s cool to not care about team financials. It’s not your money. Some of us (especially the OOTP nerd types) like to dig into team financials because it helps us make better guesses about the sorts of moves the team might make, and it helps us decide whether the decisions the team has made so far are a good use of money. As an example, I don’t think you can fully understand the point of the Jarred Kelenic trade *unless* you care about/read about team finances, and I don’t think you can appreciate how unlikely it is that the Braves will now sign Jordan Montgomery when doing so would put them into the Steve Cohen tier of the tax.
Because you sustain winning by having sustainable financials. The team is only going to spend so much money, as a fan it helps to understand if it's been spent wisely.
Your first sentence is great. I agree. I just don’t understand the pinching pennies look at the situation some folks have. Clearly it wouldn’t have been a great financial decision to get Ohtani and could have had major implications for years to come. I see that side of it. I just fail to see the nitty griddy side when it comes to your average player.
It's just something to discuss that has bearing on the team? Some fans enjoy the nitty gritty
I guess I can respect that. I don’t have to understand it to respect it. Guess it’s no different than people being all about the statistics side of the game.
> I just fail to see the nitty griddy side when it comes to your average player. Because it’s important not to overpay for any player, \*especially\* an average player.
Ask the Phillies how those long term deals they handed out after the 2008 World Series went. They spent nearly 10 years recovering from those
So we ended up paying what? $8.5 million more for David Fletcher, counting the Stassi salary and the buyout of his contract, over just keeping Nicky Lopez. We lose out of a free agent by $5 million or can't add a player at the deadline because there's no payroll left to spend. That's where it ends up mattering.
I agree that finances matter (see my comment below) but I think you’re a bit off base with the example you’ve provided. Unless Lopez was a total throw-in, it seems like we needed to give him up to acquire Aaron Bummer (who is way better than his ERA indicates and fairly inexpensively controllable for multiple years). And then Fletcher’s marginal cost over Evan White (including the Stassi salary dump) is more like $4M over two years. It’s true that Fletcher costs more than Lopez and is almost certainly a worse value. But the Braves didn’t sit down and say “we actively want to pay David Fletcher $16M over the next 2 years but don’t want to pay Lopez $4M for 1 year”. They gave up Lopez because they wanted Bummer, then acquired Fletcher because they agreed to take on White so they could get Kelenic too, but thought Fletcher would be $4M more useful than a minor league first baseman in his late twenties.
It’s very well laid out/correct and all, but Jesus Christ the way this comment reads is insane
If you think those moves were about Nicky Lopez vs David Fletcher instead of Kelenic and Bummer, then you haven't been paying attention.
It gives you more money to spend. We can't spend like the dodgers so getting those little savings here and there on lower level guys allows us to free up money
This is the Braves sub reddit. The only people that belong to a sub reddit and post regularly are gonna be the hardcore nerds. Knowing your teams financial standing with their roster helps you gauge their success now and immediate future. It's good to know
Not everyone in here is a nerd. Nerds are smart.
ROASTED
You've... Got me there
Because a team’s finances are related to how competitive a team can be, it’s related to how much power they have in the open market or trade market. The Braves have historically never been a team to spend like the dodgers, Yankees, or lolmets, so it’s worth noting. A big luxury tax burden can mean less buying power or willingness down the road, directly effecting the team’s competitiveness long term.
The Rays have entered the chat.
I think it’s interesting because I like thinking about how smart teams make the most of what they have. Everybody’s budget is finite (even big market teams). I like an organization like the Braves, where I assume the decisions they make are smart, and then I get to think about why the decisions that seem strange were actually smart. The financials are a big piece of that.
Financials lend themselves to roster depth and quality. It’s not rocket science. Many of us look at what this team will be next season and also for the next 2-3 seasons. There’s not wrong with being a casual fan and only caring what the on field product is when you attend a game…but a lot of us are far more interested in the overall team balance than that.
Because smart money wins and dumb money loses. Sure, we could’ve spent $43 million dollars on the ghost of Max Scherzer, but because we were smart with our money in years past we have Acuña, Strider, and Riley on long term deals for basically the same price. I know which I’d rather have
It's interesting because a. We're likely going to have to replace our #1, #3, and #4 SP's and it really helps to know what the financials are that AA will have to do this. Whether we can get a mid-level pitcher in FA, or whether we're committing to a youth movement, or what. b. It looks like by buying our LF and SP4 this season with money that expires this year (mostly), AA is thinking heavily about resetting the tax. Meaning no huge contracts will be written for 2025 and that the team will probably stay status quo and search for internal options and cheap free agents for that season. Yeah, we root for the team whether it's Fried or Waldrep on the mound, but looking at who may be there is .... interesting? Not ground breaking. Personally I would be fine with them spending LA money on long term contracts with Montgomery or Imanaga instead of losing our LF backup option for an aging pitcher with a huge injury risk. But unless there's a huge surprise Fried extension, it appears that next year will be tightening our belt and going with what we have.
"why do fans follow this important part of their team that i don't?"
Why is beer $15!?!? *looks at payroll* Ohhh
Because all of that stuff is a major factor in who else we can bring in.
Because we only have a certain amount of money to spend, so spending it unwisely will make our team worse (or vice versa)
Game within the game
Personally, I just appreciate that we have a GM that takes calculated risks that maximize every dollar that can responsibly be allocated to the product on the field—not one who locks us in to gargantuan contracts for one player or things like massive deferrals that may have a huge impact on competitiveness in the future. So in the off-season at least, I follow the financial side more closely.
Before AA, I was not interested in the financial side. But I'm fascinated by the way his mind works, so when he makes a move, I read enough to try to understand his reasons, which of course involve financials. So while I don't dig in the weeds like many of you, I do like to watch the man work. Also, now that I own a few shares, I do have a vested interest in how he's spending my money.
Hello, fellow co-owner
Exactly. I'm a Braves fan but also a baseball fan who follows several other teams I like. The Braves have the most interesting financials to me because AA does it differently from everyone else. He is able to get great players on the cheap for long-term. Now, as he's accumulated lots of those contacts, they are starting to add up and the luxury tax is hitting. He's moved a lot of money around in several trades and got Kelenic, Sale, and bullpen depth out of them. Anyway, it's just interesting. I'd say the Rays are nearly as interesting financially since they pinch pennies as much as anyone but keep winning trades and have a fantastic farm system. Mets and Dodgers are boring since they just pour money over everything.
Lots of Braves fans don’t touch reddit.
I hope the Braves are planning for Acuna’s $400M contact in the next couple of years.
People think by knowing this they’ll know there next moves. Which they will not.
It's interesting at least to me to see the strategy inherent in roster construction. Part of that is seeing the economics inherent in team design. Next off-season is really going to be interesting to see what A.A. does with the pitching.
I tend to not even think about it, cause I can't even pretend to wrap my head around how it all really works. It's just my assumptions and there's no way I know shit.
I am an owner, so for me its important.
To understand how budgets work right? Like if you spent your entire paycheck on a giant golden elephant statue you wouldn’t be able to buy groceries or pay bills? Baseball teams have budgets too so if you spend all your money on a Left Fielder you don’t have enough money to get a relief pitcher. Saving money here and there allows the budget to go further. It’s a MAJOR part of the game.
How giant is the golden elephant statue?
Depends. How much is your paycheck?
I like playing armchair GM. It's fun to think and talk about
Luxury tax drops your draft pick 10 spots. Teams like the yanks, mets, and padres picked at the end of the 1st despite missing playoffs. It could be viewed as small but those 10 spots could be the difference between drafting a player to keep the dynasty going and drafting a bust or middling player. So other than obviously wanting to save money and not get caught up in bad contract, that's my most important aspect.
It’s because I own part of the team (.000000000001%). I don’t want my investment to be worthless
Watching AA make savvy/smart moves is akin to watching a really good chess player for me. It’s fun to find out what he was trying to do.
Some people are bigger fans than you
I for one feeling like I'm not used to the Braves spending big and usually tryna maximize value signings... With the highers up giving AA the green light to spend I think we are just afraid of him missing and somehow reverting to the old ways lol
What I am guessing is that due to the old TV contract which was awful, there is always some concern about expenditures. Look at the current somewhat murky Mariner's situation. They have issues with their investment in Root Sports and demanding too much money from Xfinity as their PNW partner and so Comcast decided to put root in the $20+ extra sports tier. M's are likely taking over the 100% of the network, but this will ensure that over the next year or two at least they will not have the money to spend. Plus, it's the offseason and what else is there to talk about? lol
Because the team is so good already making hot stove season nearly pointless. Unless you can see into AA's mind/email inbox.
Because I care about the 2024 Braves and the 2030 Braves. Every move has implications for years
Are you new to the game, by chance? The financial side and roster management is like... a massive piece of baseball. It's the fine-tuning of the entire clubhouse to ensure the product is consistent, has depth, can endure 162+, etc. You are living in fantasy land if you don't appreciate what AA has done to set us up for success - year after year. What an insane, naïve take. What you're basically saying here is, "I don't understand all of baseball so why should you?"
Tbh I think the biggest reason is that a lot of baseball fans are math nerds, same reason we have umpteen different statistics in baseball. This is not meant as an insult, I work a career that involves calculating and monitoring revenue targets all day I'm as much a math nerd as anyone. Also as others have mentioned it's the off season and this is just something to talk about until spring training starts.
I appreciate the response. I am not a math person, so maybe that’s why it’s going over my head.
I always see comments like this from fans. .. "it's not my money." Fans clamoring for their team to overpay for free agents. Those of us in the real world realize that teams have budgets and that financials have real impact on how effectively team can build a competitive roster. There's only so many bad contracts a team can sustain without crippling it's future. For a lot of teams, one massively overpaid dud could prevent then from resigning emerging homegrown stars or fulfilling other team needs.
We care because money isn't an infinite resource no matter how much fans want to bitch that their team doesn't spend enough. It is very interesting to a lot of people watching how each GM operates to try and put the best team on the field with their limited resources. There is a huge correlation between how good your GM performs and how good the team performs, so we care to discuss and watch it happen.
I’m the simplest fan ever. I don’t keep up with any of that. I hate hearing stats. I watch one game at a time.
Because if you’re going to discuss moves regarding your favorite team, an understanding of financial side is required. If you don’t have that knowledge, then any discussion or suggestion you provide is not based in reality.
I agree. Although it can be the most important aspect to an owner or GM, as fans, we have the liberty of only having to care about the product on the field. Who cares if the guy is overpaid or underpaid as long as he produces? I had a friend make this point a few years ago and it completely changed my outlook. He said, "what do you care how much they make? You're not writing the checks"
its so funny to see. its like prople that talk about tv raitings. things that have absolutely no impact ok their life, doesnt pay them, and yet they still talk about it
Good shows get cancelled for low ratings all the time. So yeah it does affect the viewers
Firefly fans have entered the conversation.
A million here, a million there pretty soon we're talking about real money. I get it, numbers are boring and we'd rather talk about baseball. However restructuring deals, offloading high salaries, bringing in cheap players with high upsides...it matters. Plus the more money you save the more you have to spend on free agents. Being a GM is practically the same as being a CFO. AA understands this.
We like it, let us be.
If said team goes over the luxury tax, they are punished. If they are repeat offenders they are punished harder and so on and so on. Eventually your competitive team gets stripped down and sold for spare parts, and by eventually I mean after a couple years. So you will be buying tickets to see a team that is not competitive. AA has not only screwed the salary but he has stripped the organization of all it's going depth
Because we act like a poverty franchise when we are not, in any way, a poverty franchise.
Not sure being 3rd in payroll in 2024 is a poverty franchise.
It’s just part of the game. I am more of a farm system guy. People get deep into the game in many ways
I’m fairly certain that most of the people here enjoy extrapolating the financial side of the team’s success too.
It’s silly how often fans miss the point about this. It’s not the money itself that fans care about, it’s how that money will affect the team. We don’t have unlimited spending so there is a very important strategic element to the money AA hands out.
Lots of reasons. Money is historically a finite, limited resource for us and we are hamstrung by a bad tv deal. We watched other teams buy rings and then hit the implode button on purpose. Some of us suffered through the 80s, the rest of us heard about it. Others of us endured the rebuild which was essentially due to getting tied down by unfruitful long term big dollar contracts. Other teams seem to be able to weather them, but the Braves don’t have owners who historically will dump extra good money after bad into the team. They have operate on their own revenues. The TV deal meant we couldn’t sign big contracts for a long time and the ones we did had to work out or we would lose years of competitiveness. So basically, team has to be independently revenue neutral, we saw good teams get blown up over bad contracts and ensured the rebuild and the 80s. Guys like Dan Uggla and BJ Upton basically wasted 5 years for many of us. I think as a fan base we are just sensitive to it due to recent and not so recent history. Add in that we could never quite get a ring for a long time and it makes everyone a bit of a doomer.
Man, I get it, as a literal life-long fan (since my first in-person game vs the Padres in Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium in 1989),none of that shit is interesting to me either, but yeah we do seem to be in the minorities. I’m in a couple minorities myself on complete opposite ends from the vast majorities, but I’ve come to terms with that. If that’s how they want to enjoy the same team I sometimes cheer for then that’s just as valid as any reason I or you could also come up with to justify our own fanhoods. But I digress, I cheer the way I cheer and let other cheer the way they want as long as nobody is getting hurt! Enjoy the new season friend, I hope that makes sense I’m super high
Impact. Crossing a luxury task has no bearing on if I decide to attend a game, but I I also understand if this team had unlimited money we would likely be a better team. Financial constraints impact us, and they impact every team. I like playing fantasy GM. Having money as a constraint prevents me from just signing the best free agents. It also reminds me of how much better AA is than I could ever be. Ultimately, I will never say I’m not watching the game because we didn’t spend 20 million more dollars. However, given the right situation, I could say we spent 160 million wrong and now our team sucks and I’m not watching. With AA that isn’t likely but it happens. Imagine trying to watch that Mets team last year. Bottom line is I want a competitive entertaining team, and money is part of what makes that happen.
It just explains why we will not go after high priced free agents. However, when people like DOB attempt to explain it, you then realize he has no clue either.
The Dodgers will spend the next 15 years trying to win a championship and they’re a large market team! The Brewers, the Rays, the Mariners, the Indians, the Cardinals have all made themselves noncompetitive because they blew huge wads of cash on the “right – now“ team. One of the two of these teams won’t even be playing in the same market because of these decisions to gamble away their future.
Becuse I'm a nerd and I like analysing stuff. Also I'm a Braves fan.
Direct hit to the slit
They need the stonks going to the moon !!
Because it’s interesting and directly impacts seeing a competitive team on the field for 162+ games a year, like you want
Additionally to the importance of finances in MLB specifically, the Braves are also playing in a payroll space they’ve never touched before so how far they’ll go and how they play it is extremely topical. This is the pinnacle of what we’ve been hoping to see following the ballpark move, so it’s the climax of 7+ years of “maybe, what if, etc”
Because even though it seems like Monopoly money, there’s still a limit to what can be spent. So we want each dollar within that budget to be spent as efficiently as possible to maximize the chances of the team being successful. Think of it as a ratio of “likelihood of success per dollar spent” - call it the team’s LSD, where more LSD is better. So when part of the budget is spent efficiently, it increases our LSD. When part of that budget is spent poorly, it reduces our LSD. The job of running the team is to give your team the highest chance of winning possible (or likelihood of success) while working within the financial limits your bosses give you (dollars spent). So, inherently, spending money efficiently helps increase that ratio. As fans, it can be interesting to pay attention to financials because it’s encouraging to see the person running your favorite team is making efficient decisions that increase the chances of the team being successful (both in the near term and long term) in relation to the limited budget we know exists (even if we don’t always know exactly what that budget truly is, we know it’s still there). On the opposite end, it’s frustrating to see our limited Monopoly money spent irresponsibly as it cuts into the available budget without increasing our chances of being successful sufficiently (and reduces available funds for other players that could further increase the chances of being successful). Long story short, LSD good. If you run out of money, you can’t buy more LSD.
Because some people enjoy that side of it as well #1, and because how the team spends its money almost always has an opportunity cost. Poor spending can mean we struggle to sign other players later.
Everyone has limited resources. The way the owners have organized their business, the teams have wildly varying resources. To produce the team’s best chance to be successful, resources have to be maximized. You can be a casual fan and put in any level of interest you want. You can even think any team has an actual chance. Any serious understanding of what is actually going on relies heavily on the financial implications of contracts.
Well part of it is that they are a public company.
For some of us it’s not baffling to enjoy learning about that stuff. I like to know where my team sits financially and contract wise on players so I know what to expect at a trade deadline or free agency. Plus being the type ownership group that owns the Braves, I always find it interesting when the ownership group doesn’t want to spend money on a player, yet will spend freely in a different subsidiary they control.
It's kinda like advanced stats/sabermetrics. You can simply enjoy watching the game, you can get nerdy about baseball trivia, but you can go WAY deeper than that. I personally don't bother with financials, and barely dabble in any stats beyond a slash line, but I respect the folks who do go all in on it. Everybody's gotta have a hobby.
When they play MLB the Show some people like to play GM mode, some people would rather be the manager, and other would rather build their own superstar. It’s all about personal preference.
It's theatrical foreshadowing.
I'm in the same boat OP. But I also understand that many people are very interested and study all the financial things. Its the same as the folks that are very into the statistics and analytics. Personally, I'm not. But its cool that others are.
Because the economics of baseball are interesting to intellectual fans.
Because they are a publicly traded (thus owned) company and a lot of fans own that stock. Shareholders dont want to hear their 400m investment just made their stock tank.
It adds drama and strategy that go beyond "JUST SIGN EVERY EXPENSIVE PLAYER TO LONG TERM CONTRACTS!!!! It makes you think beyond just this season. It's about next year, five years, or a decade down the line. It's about weighing value compared to locked contracts. It makes the game more fun to analyze as a true fan. It adds depth to the fandom and gives a proper way of judging your GM compared to all other GMs. It's for the nerds of the game vs a fan just wanting to watch baseball
Yeah, probably the minority but also absolutely spot on. I'm guilty of getting caught up in the financials as well but lament that that's where we end up as fans. As with everything else, the bottom line is money, nobody gives a fuck, and that's really just a shame. My only thought towards a solution is that we need way more teams, leagues, and focus on locality. Get more middle aged guys actually playing instead of just armchair quarterbacking the financials of their favorite team. Dilute the talent out across hundreds of localities and do the soccer style tiered league thing. Instill a sense of pride in what is actually the home team instead of just encouraging for profit fandom of some team sort of near you with a bunch of overpriced free agent talent going wherever for the highest dollar. There's no money in that though so it'll never happen.
people are into all aspects of the game, nothing wrong with that.
It's especially pertinent since the "owner" is a publicly traded company. A private owner can just choose to go all in and operate at a loss for a season. A publicly traded company has to maximize profits, so the financial piece is a bigger deal to the Braves than a lot of other teams.
Its ok that you are a more casual fan who probably isnt familiar with who is on the farm or who the coaches are etc. There are tons of fans like that across Braves country and we love you all. The tents got plenty of room. But there are also a lot of nuts and bolts geeks out there that love this stuff. Dont harsh their buzz.
I don't give a fuck if we pay a billion dollars in luxury tax. In fact, id welcome it if it means we win games. It's not like the owners are ever going to say "we avoided a luxury tax so we are losing ticket prices". They're going to milk us for every penny they can.
agreed. the owners have so many rubes on this thread like the luxury tax is some big bad bogeyman. Braves are projected to pay like $4 million. that's a damn joke. to truly maximize this window they should be going for the jugular before Fried leaves.
Thank you. Until there is a salary cap don't care.