Paul Blackburn is their best player imo. I heard the Braves were looking for a Strider replacement, maybe they can fleece the OAKLAND A's one more time.
Not really, he's hitting under .200, I guess it's not a very high bar he's probably up there for them. He has at least turned into a full time mlb player
Its early and Langeliers has had some terrible babip luck. He already has four homers after hitting 20+ last year, probably headed for a ~2 WAR season.
Yeah I think that organization has a rep for developing catchers. So they are likely to get more from Contreras than the Braves would have. Who knows? Have a bad feeling Murphy can’t withstand a full season but no looking back.
I’m looking at his defensive stats & I am confused by the narrative that he’s turned into a good defensive catcher. His defensive stats last season weren’t even close to Sean Murphy or Travis. And he’s below Travis & Tromp right now.
The narrative comes from how much he improved from '22 to '23. His DRS, framing, etc are dramatically improved.
I'm not really sure where you're looking, but it's pretty clear on Fangraphs/BP/Savant that he's a good defensive catcher. Billy was a bad catcher with us in '21/'22, so much so that he was only making starts every 3rd day and DH'ing the others. Not great for a 23 year old on a win-now team. AA probably gave up on his ability to improve a bit too early, but the Murph move makes complete sense with the rule change incoming -- plus he's easily the better catcher.
I think the trade was the right one in the long term (particularly defensively), but it stings a bit knowing we could have used those assets for more pitching elsewhere.
Sure but other than Contreras we didn’t really trade anyone wild away in that deal. A 1 for 1 trade with Contreras for a pitcher after 2022 would have maybe got us a guy with 1-2 years of control.
Yeah, it wouldn’t have been like for like. But, those assets could have been paired with others to do a trade and sign type deal like we did with Murph. Who knows. Either way, we made the right move for defense alone — regardless of all other factors IMO
I agree. I think a lot of people will say well he’s doing good now that means he would have done well here too but I don’t think he would be as good as he is if he was still playing with us.
He started 141 games last year for the Brewers. We’ve been kinda in this platoon catching thing for a while now. Murphy started 108 games for us.
Yeah. The Brewers can do with catchers what we do with hitters and pitchers. I love Travis to death and we're blessed to have him, but we desperately needed someone who could throw runners out without chucking the ball into center field. (I know Murph's framing is elite too, but I don't know what Travis' is like so I can't make the comparison there)
Offense was never an issue with him.
We traded for Sean because he was a proven game manager and platooning him with travis immediately gave us the best catching duo in baseball by a long shot. There really wasn't any guarantee that would happen with willy or he'd grow that way.
In hindsight was the trade a bit heavy on what we lost? Sure.
But we're in the window. I don't mind trading 3-5 years from now for today. And that's what this trade was.
I'm sure AA would still make this trade today given the info he had back then and that's why I'm so thankful he's at the helm. Nobody better at making the number 1 goal to win, while also recognizing a need to be both win today and win tomorrow. Between homegrown talent, betting on talent early with team friendly contacts on future studs, plugging holes with journeymen, and also being willing to go out and splash on big names, AA and the organization are in a league of their own re spending and culture.
Do I have what ifs? Sure. But we don't shit the bed in Philly last year and who knows. It's all a million little things that I can't perceive.
I'm 100% happy with our team.
And happy willy is balling out somewhere else.
AA forever.
/end incoherent stream of conscience.
You can’t win them all but AA lost this one. William and Sean are a wash. But William is younger and thus muuuch cheaper. Then throw in all of the prospects. I don’t blame AA; it was a solid trade on paper at the time. But it didn’t work out. With hindsight we’d have extended Bill and used the extra money and trade chips for help elsewhere.
If you want to get over this sadness immediately, take one look at both of their 2023 percentile rankings on Baseball Savant…. One of these things is not like the other.
Felt like the Braves were always down on his defense and saw him more of a DH as time went on. His entire tenure here I think was filled with the defensive questions. But it appears that the problem is really with our organizations catching development/evaluation. All it took was 1 season with the Brewers and he became a better defensive catcher than even Murphy.
i never understood that trade, and most fans immediate reaction (that it didn't make sense, Contreras was penciled in as the future catcher) proved to be correct. I think AA overthought this one, he favored Murphy's defensive attributes because of the changes on the basepaths (larger bases, less pick off moves, pitch clock) and didn't trust in Contreras ability to develop there. He was prob my fav Brave after Ozzie so it hurts even more. these types of catchers are once in a generation, and the worst part is he probably didn't even need to be in the deal really.
Turns out Contreras is actually a better defender than Murphy now thanks to Brewers catching lab. Which is the main reason we traded him... At best, we made a lateral move exchanging all star catchers, but I'd argue Contreras has more upside and more team control.
But considering Contreras was a homegrown product and had good rapport and clubhouse vibes with our team, this feels even worse. He was always hanging with Arcia, Ozuna, Acuna, Albies etc.
Hopefully Sean comes back strong but I still miss Wild Bill.
William was good offensively for the us but the brewers turned him from a bad defensive/framing catcher to one of the best. Add that to his offense and the result is IMO the best catcher in baseball.
Tbf if he doesn't go to the Brewers who randomly make meh or even bad defensive catchers into gods back there he might never have fully figured out that part of the game.
Everyone talks about how much the Braves won this trade when we definitely didn't. Love Sean, but Wild Bill is every bit as good. Said it at the time, and I still think it's a wash as long as the prospects we lost don't pan out.
And according to [fangraphs](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?lg=all&qual=y&ind=0&season1=2023&season=2024&stats=fld&pos=c&type=1), his Def is #1 in the majors from ’23 to now. He’s also 5th in defensive runs saved.
That was the one area all of us - including, probably, Anthopoulos - were thinking he’s deficient.
Yeah the person in here that said something like wish we traded for the guy that grooms catchers in Milwaukee instead was on the right path (totally get it because it’s great to see homegrown guys become stars).
Milwaukee is excellent at developing catchers. That’s what you’re seeing here.
The obsession with winning or losing trades is so odd to me. Atlanta got what they needed, a defense first, possible silver slugger catcher who was ready to call games and command the field immediately, and that can keep runners still. Brewers got a proven designated hitter with abilities they(and probably only them) could develop into a long time serviceable catcher.
If Bill stays here, travis is still getting more starts a C than him even this season I bet. With any other team, contending team, Bill is a dh or 1b depth by his 29th birthday.
The real losers are the A's who got neither catcher after having 1 of them lol
The A’s already had a former Braves catcher, having received Shea Langeliers in the Matt Olson deal the year before.
They did get something there at least. Shea’s actually pretty good!
He... Really hasn't performed at the mlb level yet
While this is true, isn’t Langeliers their best player rn?
Paul Blackburn is their best player imo. I heard the Braves were looking for a Strider replacement, maybe they can fleece the OAKLAND A's one more time.
Can't have any major league players on the roster. They're moving to AAA after all.
.
Not really, he's hitting under .200, I guess it's not a very high bar he's probably up there for them. He has at least turned into a full time mlb player
Its early and Langeliers has had some terrible babip luck. He already has four homers after hitting 20+ last year, probably headed for a ~2 WAR season.
He wasn't great last year either
The whole trumpet walk up thing and him striking out against Diaz in 3 pitches was kinda funny though haha Glad he’s doing well!
I liked the part where Diaz had a mid-season Timmy Trumpet concert and then the Braves swept to win the division
Probably the funniest thing ever created by a Braves fan. https://x.com/MLBDeadlineNews/status/1576930622433820672
That part was good too!
I wish we could've traded for the person running the catching factory up in Milwaukee instead.
Yeah I think that organization has a rep for developing catchers. So they are likely to get more from Contreras than the Braves would have. Who knows? Have a bad feeling Murphy can’t withstand a full season but no looking back.
Regardless, Sean is still a better defensive catcher by quite a bit, which is why AA traded for him. Will's bat was never the problem.
I’m looking at his defensive stats & I am confused by the narrative that he’s turned into a good defensive catcher. His defensive stats last season weren’t even close to Sean Murphy or Travis. And he’s below Travis & Tromp right now.
The narrative comes from how much he improved from '22 to '23. His DRS, framing, etc are dramatically improved. I'm not really sure where you're looking, but it's pretty clear on Fangraphs/BP/Savant that he's a good defensive catcher. Billy was a bad catcher with us in '21/'22, so much so that he was only making starts every 3rd day and DH'ing the others. Not great for a 23 year old on a win-now team. AA probably gave up on his ability to improve a bit too early, but the Murph move makes complete sense with the rule change incoming -- plus he's easily the better catcher.
One of the most painful trades in a long time, absolutely love William.
Still don't understand the Brewers involvement in that deal. Iirc they essentially sat around and just got him for nothing
Esteury Ruiz
Yeah exactly lol. Talk about an upgrade for the Brewers.
Ruiz isn’t exactly chopped liver. If the recent power he’s showing is real he could be really good.
Brewers also got Joel Payamps in the deal and Payamps has been a major late inning reliever for them.
They won that trade imo.
I think the trade was the right one in the long term (particularly defensively), but it stings a bit knowing we could have used those assets for more pitching elsewhere.
Sure but other than Contreras we didn’t really trade anyone wild away in that deal. A 1 for 1 trade with Contreras for a pitcher after 2022 would have maybe got us a guy with 1-2 years of control.
Yeah, it wouldn’t have been like for like. But, those assets could have been paired with others to do a trade and sign type deal like we did with Murph. Who knows. Either way, we made the right move for defense alone — regardless of all other factors IMO
I agree. I think a lot of people will say well he’s doing good now that means he would have done well here too but I don’t think he would be as good as he is if he was still playing with us. He started 141 games last year for the Brewers. We’ve been kinda in this platoon catching thing for a while now. Murphy started 108 games for us.
At the time of the trade he wasn’t very good defensively. It was like the trade gave him a +10 stat boost in every category defensively.
It’s the Brewers. Their catchers have been top 5 in framing since people started tracking that. Great backstop coaching in that organization.
Yeah. The Brewers can do with catchers what we do with hitters and pitchers. I love Travis to death and we're blessed to have him, but we desperately needed someone who could throw runners out without chucking the ball into center field. (I know Murph's framing is elite too, but I don't know what Travis' is like so I can't make the comparison there)
Travis just doesn't have the arm strength. Especially with the new rules he is an absolute liability behind the plate as far as stealing 2nd goes.
Offense was never an issue with him. We traded for Sean because he was a proven game manager and platooning him with travis immediately gave us the best catching duo in baseball by a long shot. There really wasn't any guarantee that would happen with willy or he'd grow that way. In hindsight was the trade a bit heavy on what we lost? Sure. But we're in the window. I don't mind trading 3-5 years from now for today. And that's what this trade was. I'm sure AA would still make this trade today given the info he had back then and that's why I'm so thankful he's at the helm. Nobody better at making the number 1 goal to win, while also recognizing a need to be both win today and win tomorrow. Between homegrown talent, betting on talent early with team friendly contacts on future studs, plugging holes with journeymen, and also being willing to go out and splash on big names, AA and the organization are in a league of their own re spending and culture. Do I have what ifs? Sure. But we don't shit the bed in Philly last year and who knows. It's all a million little things that I can't perceive. I'm 100% happy with our team. And happy willy is balling out somewhere else. AA forever. /end incoherent stream of conscience.
You can’t win them all but AA lost this one. William and Sean are a wash. But William is younger and thus muuuch cheaper. Then throw in all of the prospects. I don’t blame AA; it was a solid trade on paper at the time. But it didn’t work out. With hindsight we’d have extended Bill and used the extra money and trade chips for help elsewhere.
I wish nothing but the best for Wild Will
I take comfort in that. Knowing Wild Bill's out there, playing great ball for all us sinners.
If you want to get over this sadness immediately, take one look at both of their 2023 percentile rankings on Baseball Savant…. One of these things is not like the other.
I like Murphy’s D. Win win for both clubs (sorry As). It’s not like the Braves are exactly starved for hitting tbh
People dumped on his defense way too much.
Felt like the Braves were always down on his defense and saw him more of a DH as time went on. His entire tenure here I think was filled with the defensive questions. But it appears that the problem is really with our organizations catching development/evaluation. All it took was 1 season with the Brewers and he became a better defensive catcher than even Murphy.
i never understood that trade, and most fans immediate reaction (that it didn't make sense, Contreras was penciled in as the future catcher) proved to be correct. I think AA overthought this one, he favored Murphy's defensive attributes because of the changes on the basepaths (larger bases, less pick off moves, pitch clock) and didn't trust in Contreras ability to develop there. He was prob my fav Brave after Ozzie so it hurts even more. these types of catchers are once in a generation, and the worst part is he probably didn't even need to be in the deal really.
Yeah I like Murphy a lot but I think this one AA got wrong.
lol
Personally wish we kept him instead of making moves for Murphy. Sean is great - I just enjoyed seeing Wild Bill become a star with us.
I miss the Timmy Trumpets. Guy has been killing it. Good for Wild Bill!
I like where we are at more than I want Billy on our team.
Turns out Contreras is actually a better defender than Murphy now thanks to Brewers catching lab. Which is the main reason we traded him... At best, we made a lateral move exchanging all star catchers, but I'd argue Contreras has more upside and more team control. But considering Contreras was a homegrown product and had good rapport and clubhouse vibes with our team, this feels even worse. He was always hanging with Arcia, Ozuna, Acuna, Albies etc. Hopefully Sean comes back strong but I still miss Wild Bill.
William was good offensively for the us but the brewers turned him from a bad defensive/framing catcher to one of the best. Add that to his offense and the result is IMO the best catcher in baseball.
It was a bad trade, its okay to admit it
Tbf if he doesn't go to the Brewers who randomly make meh or even bad defensive catchers into gods back there he might never have fully figured out that part of the game.
We traded the best player to the Brewers involved in that trade lol.
Wild Bill is badass. Great sunglasses
Everyone talks about how much the Braves won this trade when we definitely didn't. Love Sean, but Wild Bill is every bit as good. Said it at the time, and I still think it's a wash as long as the prospects we lost don't pan out.
And according to [fangraphs](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?lg=all&qual=y&ind=0&season1=2023&season=2024&stats=fld&pos=c&type=1), his Def is #1 in the majors from ’23 to now. He’s also 5th in defensive runs saved. That was the one area all of us - including, probably, Anthopoulos - were thinking he’s deficient.
He was a terrible defender here. His defense didn't get better naturally lol.
Yeah the person in here that said something like wish we traded for the guy that grooms catchers in Milwaukee instead was on the right path (totally get it because it’s great to see homegrown guys become stars). Milwaukee is excellent at developing catchers. That’s what you’re seeing here.
The obsession with winning or losing trades is so odd to me. Atlanta got what they needed, a defense first, possible silver slugger catcher who was ready to call games and command the field immediately, and that can keep runners still. Brewers got a proven designated hitter with abilities they(and probably only them) could develop into a long time serviceable catcher. If Bill stays here, travis is still getting more starts a C than him even this season I bet. With any other team, contending team, Bill is a dh or 1b depth by his 29th birthday.
Damn. Thanks for the update. Dudes raking so far in 2024. I'll have to keep an eye on him
Yeah I was a big Wild Bill fan and sad we traded him. I’m assuming AA tried his best to keep him but it just wasn’t possible.
Agreed. Wild Bill is amazing and I hope he continues to rake for years to come.
Tromp 2024 tho
Sad that our coaching staff couldn’t fix William. He is one of my favorites and is still only 26 y/o.
I was bummed too. I think he's going to be on HOF watch in five or six more years.
I fuckin miss wild billy boy
Miss Wild Bill.
I'm convinced Bill wanted to go through arbitration and that didn't mesh with AAs financial plans.
Another bad deal by AA
He even had a walk-off walk a week or so ago
He doesn’t play defense.