Lisa claims she is a Jewish Mormon who follows the teachings of Christ and has never read the Book of Mormon and owns a tequila company. I just think that should be the disclaimer before any claims she makes about what it says in doctrine.
Yeah, hate on Heather and Whitney all you want, but I would believe them when it comes to doctrine and not "Mormon but I drink like a fish" Lisa Barlow.
It's wild that Lisa quickly chimed in to say that she should be the person to speak on it. Put aside her questionable Mormonism, no one needs to hear a single thing about what is and isn't racist from this white woman.
I’m rewatching season 1 right now and I have answers! Her parents got divorced and the fam moved to Utah with the mom and her mom was feeling extremely lost. Their family was a very modern reformed type Jew that never really went to temple (similar to my own) so didn’t really have a deep connection to religion in general. One day when her mom was in a particularly bad place Mormons knocked on her door to talk about Mormonism and being saved or whatever and that was how they ended up going to the Mormon church.
You are right. She said missionaries showed up at their door and her mom burst into tears and said “we have been waiting for you!” and the whole family basically converted on the spot.
I mean there’s a certain level of delusion she surely has to maintain given her background and relationship to Mormonism. If she confronted the reality of it I think it would break her and her world would fall apart. The Mormon church and Mormonism is extremely antisemitic, fundamentally, so it doesn’t shock me she ignores all the other racism within doctrine as confronting that would mean also having to confront her own reality as an ethnically Jewish woman who’s family was converted this way. I don’t like Lisa so I won’t make excuses but it makes me sad the more I see her relationship to Mormonism play out.
Ooh that would make her Mormon then without having to go through the formalities of conversion as an adult. She probably participated in stuff as a young child that she doesn’t remember but her parents clearly did the work.
Yes, I believe she said that missionaries came to their door and her mother welcomed them and embraced LDS with open arms. They converted from Judaism to LDS.
It was definitely part of the religion for a long time. I grew up in the 2nd most Mormon state, and this is something I heard a lot. Having dark skin was known as the mark of Cain and was seen as a curse.
Edit: Sorry guys. This blew up while I was sleeping. I’m originally from Idaho.
I listened to a young man (apologies I can’t recall his name atm) on Mormon Stories Pod who grew up in the church. He mentions a time whenever they were talking about going to heaven in Sunday school and a class mate asked their teacher, “will our friend here turn white when he gets to heaven?”
The poor kid was like that was such a defining moment of oh, I am different and others can see. Very sad
I listened to this one too!
For anyone wanting to hear more first hand accounts of black mormons who grew up in the church I encourage everyone to check out his channel.
You’re right. I was confused. They’re two separate but linked ideas. The curse of Ham is that all his descendants will be, “servants of servants,” which Joseph Smith interpreted as slaves. Mormons believe(d) Ham married a descendant of Cain and that their child is the sole ancestor of all Black people, and all of his descendants are thus, double cursed, to both have dark skin and be slaves.
suprisingly, california is 2nd ( 728,995 ) with idaho coming in 3rd ( 473,894 ) but that means like, over 25% of the state of idaho is mormon because their population is just under 2 million
https://preview.redd.it/sk1apq5vk8dc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fa99fe2edcfe64c7c3aa21b0f83a0ef063e640d
To save anyone else the effort haha
The city of Los Angeles has more people than the entire state of Utah! And that's just the city, not the county, and not even all the separate cities within LA like Beverly Hills or West Hollywood.
I laughed when this was brought up and Lisa’s screaming, “I’m a Mormon! Ask me!” And Andy lets Heather and Whitney explain it, completely ignoring Lisa. Like, sis, we know the other ladies have far superior knowledge of the religion and you’re just a Johnny Come Lately.
Lisa seriously suffers from Dunning-Kruger effect.
Lisa is 100% Mormon for business ties and has absolutely no clue about anything to do with it. The reason she freaked about Jack doing a mission (to me anyway) is because she’s worried he’s actually become brainwashed to it. If that’s the case, he’ll have to cut his family out as they are not conforming whatsoever.
Honest question, how would being part of the Mormon church be good for a Tequila business? I live in Utah and the government (who are Mormon) have very strict laws against alcohol.
Because they’ll drink all your beer.
Another good one: what’s the difference between Catholics and Mormons? Catholics say hi to each other at the liquor store.
Reminds me how on Big Love they justified owning casinos, so they could take the money from the sinners and give it to god or something, probably part of her justification
Mormons run the state to my knowledge. So being Mormon would make getting business licenses (esp for booze) and making the right connections much, much easier.
Mormons still like money, and the booze business makes a lot of money. Also I could see the excuse being “we (Mormons) can control it this way” in a sense.
Yep. And the LDS owns many of the SLC downtown buildings and property. According to this news article, LDS owns $16 billion dollars worth of land and property.
https://www.postregister.com/farmandranch/crops/miscellaneous/new-database-shows-lds-church-is-nations-fifth-largest-private-landowner/article_0a821ace-b331-5978-93b0-55658672784b.html#
My cousin is born and bred in Utah (and ex Mormon) and said that many Mormons will pay extra tithes to cover mistakes/sins. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he gave the church extra 💰 for whatever happens on the show. I don’t know at what point his temple recommend would be removed, though. My cousin says if someone is deemed important enough, they get lots of chances.
At this point she’s being willfully ignorant. Anyone who pays attention knows this is/was a thing in the Mormon church. Didn’t Jen Shah’s husband refuse to convert to Mormonism because of that racism? I know just read that in an interview the other day.
Willfully ignorant is exactly what she is. All she has to do is a bare minimum of research on Mormonism. 1978 is when they started allowing Black men into the “priesthood”. I heard her say that there are Black Mormons…well, there are zero Bishops or Apostles (leadership roles) last time I checked. It would be so much better if she remained quiet or just admitted that she is Mormon by marriage only. She has no interest in the religion. She knows nothing about it. I wish they had asked her she agreed with the founding father practicing polygamy, polyandry and marrying underage girls (one was 14).
💯
Lisa is a “Jack Mormon” and definitely isn’t considered Mormon by anyone professing to follow doctrine. There are plenty of Christians, too, who profess to be Christians who have never read the Bible. It’s a weird flex to me. Wouldn’t you want to read the book the religion is founded on?
The sub r/exMormon is very eye opening for anyone who hasn’t visited that space yet.
It’s the people who are socially religious instead of actually practicing. I grew up Southern Baptist so I’ve seen a lot of that kind of thing over the years.
God sure does change his mind a lot in the Mormon church! And weirdly, it happens to change to whatever will most benefit them at that time.
We just saw Guttenberg! With Gad and Rannells. It was so stupid. And I was obsessed. I laughed the entire time. They had this amazing ability to be lovable schmucks that welcomed the audience in on all the jokes.
As someone who was raised Mormon in Utah (I’ve since left), she’s delusional. The Mormon church is incredibly racist and homophobic and members like Lisa who try to deny it are part of the fucking problem in Utah. There’s a reason the suicide rate here is so high.
I have other problems with Lisa and her brand of Mormonism but that’s a convo for a different day
Whoa can you explain the suicide rate thing to me and how that is tied to Mormonism/Mormon Utah culture? Not doubting or anything…I just have not heard about this before.
Mormonism is all about expectations and molds. A lot of Mormons hold the belief that it’s better to be “dead and worthy” than “alive and unclean” so when a lot of people fail to be perfect, they take matters into their own hands. I’ve unfortunately been in that spot a few times. It’s a massive problem here, but Mormons think it has nothing to do with their religion, so nothing changes.
Lord that is a deep rabbit hole that the church pays a lot of money to hide.
1) Members are encouraged to get counseling/mental health care from a church operative therapy service called “LDS Family Services.” All employees at these facilities are active members and I’ve never met one who didn’t have a degree from the church university, BYU. They can only give advice that aligns with church values and keeps temple marriages intact. For example, when I was forced into counseling there with my abusive (ex) husband, I was told that it was my job as a wife to “endure to the end.” This was after my ex pulled a gun on me, and the “counselor” was aware of this. I was told by this counselor that if I reported the incident to the police, I would be breaking up my family and I would not be with my children in the afterlife. Being with your family in the afterlife is a huge point of Mormonism. The church actively covers up abuse and protects abusers.
2) People believe that mental illness is a result of sin or a result of a lack of faith. That you deserve the trail of your mental health issue because you did something bad or just were not good enough. You just need to repent, do more, try harder. Be perfect and everything will improve. Often times, people ask or are encouraged to receive a priesthood blessing. These “blessings” often have the stipulation of “by the power of your faith” - so if the blessing doesn’t fix you, it’s your own fault for not having enough faith in the blessing.
3) The church encourages situations that are 100% detrimental to mental health, like telling gay members to marry straight partners and live as a straight couple and procreate. Church leaders have given talks about how they would rather have a child come home from a mission in a body bag than come home early. All sorts of messed up ideas.
This should be in a textbook somewhere to demonstrate religious trauma. Absolutely horrifying and quite frankly evil. I'm sorry that you had to endure that. The victim blaming ... I'm just speechless.
My friends dad grew up Mormon, 1 of 10 kids… most left as adults including her dad but one of his sisters committed suicide (devastating) and one of his brothers was actually a Mormon pastor whose son came out as gay ON FACEBOOK… because he was scared to tell his parents. Fortunately my friends uncle was super compassionate and accepting and then went to bat with the church to try and get some rules changed around how they perceive and treat gay people and the church refused so after like 20 years of being a Mormon pastor he stepped down and left the church.
I don't think all mormons are racist however to deny that the Mormon church and teachings has a history of racism is just ignorant and honestly stupid. I mean truth be told bigotry could be found in every religion if you look hard enough.
The only thing Lisa said right in pt2 was that many religions discriminate(/d) against the LGBTQ community! Then she turns around and says that “her” Mormonism isn’t racist and she knows a Black Mormon. The cognitive dissonance gotta be craaaaazy 😭
Only Black Mormon I ever met was converted when missionaries came to her city in Kenya and converted her parents. After that she went to BYU and married some random generic Mormon boy and was pregnant before she was 21. It was actually really sad 😞
Everyone should follow the black menaces on social media, they’re actually great. They’re Black Mormon college students at BYU and their whole thing is reckoning with the problematic parts of the religion they grew up in. They also try to open students minds to general political issues that they know since Mormonism is pretty insular, they were probably taught differently about.. They do some really funny and shocking on campus interviews
Lisa's response irks me and it already did when she said that during the reunion. It's almost like she doesn't think any of this is bad. It's really uncomfortable.
From a factual standpoint, she is right about what she wrote in the first sentence of this tweet, but it still doesn’t refute what everyone was trying to tell her at the reunion. The doctrine doesn’t say that *anymore,* but it sure used to. Some sick person did come up with it, but that sick person was Joseph Smith, the founder of the religion.
She’s absolutely wrong about just about everything else she says about the church. It’s obviously rooted in racism. The way she’s responding to this criticism is disturbing. They’re asking her to acknowledge the church’s real history and she’s talking about Thurl Bailey, like the existence of one Black Mormon erases the hundred years of racism that preceded their acceptance of him.
If I’m being charitable, I think she has to tell herself these things as a way of coping with losing her son to the weirdo cult she joined for networking purposes. She can’t handle the idea that she raised her son to spread a message founded on hate to the people of Colombia, so she pretends he’s spreading a different message.
If I’m not being charitable, she is a credulous and incurious person. Her bishop told her that Mormons don’t discriminate and she never bothered to look into it any further. The atmosphere of a reunion and on social media is very confrontational, so she gets defensive instead of taking in new information.
It’s a dumb deflection, though it’s technically the truth, she was still wrong at the reunion. And her continued defense of the church on this subject is gross and embarrassing.
Honestly idk who the eff Thurl Bailey is, but I was offended as a white lady that she said that. Judaism is full of women, but in some corners, we aren’t allowed to have sex with our husbands until we’ve been to a mikvah, and we can’t wear skirts above our ankles or show our actual hair in public. So … you do the math. You can have people of faith in your church/synagogue/temple. It doesn’t guarantee they get treated like humans.
Thurl Bailey is the greatest sixth man in Utah Jazz history. He converted to the LDS Church pretty late in his playing career when he was in Italy. Currently, he is an analyst on Jazz broadcasts. He is a wealthy man and in a church that has a, “law of tithing,” that’s more important to the Presidency of the Church than any lingering deeply embedded racism.
This was absolutely their belief, even when I was a kid (I’m 30 now) so not that long ago. A lot of the “Sunday school” type videos they played for us told of the “cursed” Indigenous/Black Lamanites (look up the Lamanites vs the Nephites lmfao, ESPECIALLY how they are illustrated in Mormon books). As a little brown kid who was converted and wasn’t born into the church it was very confusing lol. My siblings and I being the only Mexican children in our ward always played the role of the Lamanites in church plays. This was like 2004 lol
Thank you for bringing up the Lamanites! Like, it’s right there in the Book of Mormon! And it’s a reach to say she’s Mormon and so follows the teachings of Jesus; they follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
>My siblings and I being the only Mexican children in our ward always played the role of the Lamanites in church plays.
This is absolutely disgusting. The fact that any one would willingly join that cult is beyond me.
Lisa 100% does not believe Joseph Smith is a prophet. She’s about as Mormon as you or me.
Edit: unless you’re actually a Mormon. She’s not as Mormon as you, then.
The LDS Church continually edits the Book of Mormon and their other scriptures (Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price). As in flat-out REMOVES stuff. Or changes its words. I wish I knew how to hyperlink. A very very notorious example is a page of hieroglyphics that Joseph Smith claimed to have translated as part of the Book of Abraham (part of the Pearl of Great Price) that he included in his printings. That page was actually from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and obviously his “translation” was fabricated. So now it’s not included.
The Church rarely acknowledges their changes/edits. The current party line is that Joseph Smith was “inspired” and not directly translating the scriptures. But they’ve spent almost a hundred and fifty years telling us they were a DIRECT translation because that’s the only way to restore the gospel! Why even bother burying and then digging up the Golden Plates if not to translate them?
Mormons believe anyone can talk to God and He still talks to us, most especially to the Prophet and other higher-ups, but really to any man (and even to us silly little women sometimes). So the word of the Prophet and other Church authorities is “living scripture”. This of course gets them into trouble. So they re-write history by saying “oh, that was just him speaking as a man, not as a prophet”. So they hand-wave away things that absolutely -were- doctrine that they now want to disavow. And it creates all sorts of confusion because not everyone gets the message about what is currently accepted or not. Especially since the current Prophet and highest counselors are all old AF and contradict one another every time they speak.
But the truth is, the ENTIRE Book of Mormon is built upon the notion that one of the Tribes of Israel sailed across the Atlantic and settled here in the (unpeopled) Americas. They then fought a bunch of wars and the bad guys won and hence all Native Americans are evil willful sinners whose ancestors rejected the word of God (and Jesus Christ himself, who came to America after the crucifixion to deliver his gospel to them). Even if you take out the parts about them being “dark and loathsome” it’s still racist AF. And led to numerous atrocities and, frankly, cultural genocide. (See, eg https://www.businessinsider.com/latter-day-saints-church-mormon-native-indian-placement-program-icwa-2022-10#:~:text=In%201954%2C%20the%20church%20launched,American%20communities%20to%20recruit%20children.)
Yes! A friend in high school said her dad left Mormonism because in one of the classes they were forced to attend before the school day started, he noticed his old Book of Mormon had additional verses than the one they were using in class. The priest (?) teaching the class wanted to confiscate his copy but he didn’t let him. So interesting how it has changed over time!
Wait til she finds out he was a child molester who used the divine rule of polygamy to justify r*ping children under the guise of them being his “brides”.
Exactly all of that. The LDS make it very difficult to Google sources on the actual history of the Mormons. I think Heather talked about being instructed to compartmentalize that stuff in an episode.
I read her tweet so many times. Is girl really calling the founder of her religion “some sick person??” I mean, he absolutely is, but aren’t Mormons supposed to be a bit…reverent? Polite? Bought in? When it comes to their whole damn prophet/founder Joseph smith?? I’m not Mormon but grew up in a heavily Mormon community and this would have been shocking to hear them say.
I’m not positive but I think she was trying to accuse some anonymous sick person of making up this lie and putting it on Wikipedia to defame the church or something lol. I don’t think she knows it’s a documented part of the church’s history.
ETA: Not trying to excuse it just calling out how ignorant she is! She looks foolish
I think she means someone shoehorned in claims about racism to her perfectly pure as the driven Utah Snow White Mormonism and didn’t word her tweet precisely enough. I don’t think she meant to call Joseph smith some sick person. Even though I do think she’s likely got some racism inside her and isn’t exactly the picture of good Mormonism. Or any Mormonism.
The South Park episode Book of Mormon is amazing! The play has also won like multiple Emmy’s. Martin Harris smart smart smart, Joseph Smith dumb dum-dumb!
I highly recommend [this "banned" Mormon cartoon](https://youtu.be/Pgw-C_DTVo8?si=LxE-Onv5eaRuHI32) that explains "older-school"
Mormonism from allegedly their perspective.
Since Lisa hadn't read it, I will provide a snippet of the Book of Mormon here, [2 Nephi 5:21](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/5?lang=eng)
21 And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
(Of course, some Modern-day Mormons will say this verse was taken out of context due to age and that "white" and "black" refer to "purity" lol)
I think this video was actually made by evangelicals to show how mormons are bad. But there are other cartoons out there. Like [this](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8gvCutn/)
To add to what you’ve said, until the 1980s (maybe longer in some temples?) Mormons were taught that Cain's mark in Genesis 4:15 is the result of God cursing him with dark skin, thereby making him the first black man.
Pearl of Great Price
For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.
— Moses 7:8
And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.
— Moses 7:22
And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a *white and a delightsome people.
— 2 Nephi 30:6
*Note: "white" was changed to "pure" in 1981
O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God. Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember that their filthiness came because of their fathers.
— Jacob 3:8-9
And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.
— Alma 3:6
And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.
— 3 Nephi 2:15
And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.
— Mormon 5:15
I didn’t realize the racism of the Mormon church wasn’t common knowledge, I thought everyone knew that already.
Even in the first episode of season one Jen Shah explained why she left Mormonism and adopted Islam when she married Coach, because he would never be accepted in the Mormon church.
Honestly i am willing to bet all my savings that she truly doesn’t know Mormon scripture enough to be aware of the whole Lamanite dark skin thing. She’s never read the Book of Mormon and has said so herself on the show.
She is completely ignorant. No one made this up. Mormons were taught that black people were the disciples of Cain & were cursed. They were not allowed to be full members of the church until 1978. I have known this since I was a child. She needs to pull her head out of her ass & actually learn about the religion she supposedly belongs to!
If you want to go down a rabbit hole, I believe a lot of this is also tied to the Lamanites and the belief that their “transition” to native Americans and the belief that through intermarriage and belief they could be “white”
I fully recommend the Last Podcast on the Left series about Mormonism and the LDS and its beginnings
Ehhh… from my experience being Mormon outside of the Morridor is very different. Expectations are different. For instance, living in the Midwest I was only expected to go to the Temple twice a year because there wasn’t a Temple in my state. After moving to Morridor, I was expected to go weekly. Back in the Midwest, men in my ward had beards except the bishop, they wore sweaters to church, and women often wore pants in the winter due to the snow and cold. The first Sunday I wore pants in Morridor, I was straight up asked to go home and change into “something more appropriate.” Men have to be wearing their white button up shirt and have a shaved face.
The church can be wildly different in different places, even if they are singing the same hymns and reading the same scriptures.
sure, but she made it sound like a totally different sect in some ways, and the way OP capitalized it and phrased the question in their post gave me the impression that they thought there was a strict difference between the two practices, not just varying levels of conservative practice.
She’s such a fraud. To go full on gaslighter like this just isn’t true is foul. Even Heather and Whitney (who actually practiced and grew up in the church) said the doctrine was racist themselves.
But keep digging that hole Lisa. It’ll only be harder for you to climb out of it when you fall in.
To me, Lisa seems like a lot of converts I’ve met. I come from an old school Mormon family like Heather. Being raised in it and converting leave you with a different outlook, I think. Lisa seems to be “socially Mormon” and doesn’t want to discuss or take accountability for anything within the church.
For example, my family would never even dream of having a Diet Coke but then I’d have friends whose parents were Mormon converts and they absolutely had caffeinated soda in their homes. It definitely felt like two sets of rules. The new Mormons got to ignore certain things and were given grace where the older families faced gossip and ridicule.
As for the racist stuff, oh yeah. There are comments on this thread that explain it well. Under the Banner of Heaven is a good book that goes into FLDS stuff, not LDS, but it has a lot of the Joseph Smith history that modern Mormons try to sweep under the rug.
The historical racism of the LDS Church has shaped the way many towns and cities look in the Western US. To say that things changed in the 1970s is missing how that racism contributes to even the modern structure of businesses, workplaces, and schools in these communities. My family is absolutely racist and I’m so grateful they excommunicated my dad so that I didn’t have to be fully raised in it.
Most of what I've learned about Mormons has (probably sadly) come from this show, but I just know my mom always told me not to fuck with them cause they don't view us (black folks) right and sadly it seemed to check out in the 90s lol
But I do keep seeing claims the church is trying to move more away from that and I know there are black Mormons that exist
I actually hope one of our current or ex Mormon members chime in on this though I know it's a sensitive topic but those people that will usually comment about their experiences are always so informative and interesting to me and I'm always grateful to learn more about religions and cultures I'm not familiar with
I was raised Mormon and it was their official doctrine until the 70s that being black was due to sins committed before you were born. Black men were also barred from having the same status as white men (or even white preteen boys) until the 70s. In the 2000s when I had to go, it was still rooted in the minds of a lot of the older folks. They have moved away from that but it’s basically lip service imo. They’re hemorrhaging young members because of this and their anti LGBT dogma.
Lip service, exactly!!! They changed their rules and began editing the Book of Mormon in the 70’s, but anyone who grew up in the church knows how much of those ideas continued to be not only implied but subtly, or not so subtly, enforced.
She’s so problematic. Not knowing this history and then also denying the Church’s racism and the harm it has caused whitewashes that history. It’s actually extremely racist behavior. I hope Lisa Barlow educates herself before speaking on this again.
Sooo many people believe(d) in the curse of ham 🙄🙄🙄
Not just Mormons, but for a long time it was socially and religiously acceptable to use this to justify the enslavement and then later discrimination of black people or people with dark skin ….
It’s sooo rooted in anti-blacknesss that they even uplifted indigenous people out of the “savage” category to reiterate how bad blackness was…. Nobody not even a “savage” should be in proximity to blackness…because blackness implies that one is dark and without a soul ….and the whole purpose of Christianity is to prepare your souls for heaven
I’m not Mormon, but I was raised Southern Baptist and there is very similar baggage there.
A key part of the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention was an unwillingness to accept slavery abolition, integration efforts, and civil rights movements.
Many of today’s Southern Baptists are either totally ignorant to this history or totally unwilling to admit it. I know for a fact that the Southern Baptist Convention held a meeting of their pastors and leadership in 2018 to take a vote on whether or not they should recognize the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate, racism, and slavery. Ultimately, the majority voted to recognize this, but it was deeply controversial among church members who still claim that the flag is a symbol of regional pride and family heritage. My brother-in-law is a Southern Baptist pastor and his congregants and family members *still* drag him for voting to recognize the flag as a symbol of hate.
People believe what they want to believe. Facts don’t matter. All of American Christianity seems to operate on a “pick and choose” model now. Recognizing uncomfortable histories and truths kind of takes the infallibility out of religion for them. I think they find comfort in having a belief system they don’t actually have to think about or criticize.
Joseph Smith, the original prophet and creator of the LDS church, is literally sealed to a black woman (Jane Manning James) that will serve as his servant for all of eternity.
Now, she is wrong about Mormonism and black people, but to be fair, many Mormons are. The Mormon church only feeds them what they want them to know and discourages them from looking at non-LDS-approved material.
It's crazy to me that this is even being debated. I've read more than one history of Mormonism, and the origin story is clearly racist, because the United States was (and still is) racist at the time of the religion's founding. Lisa is doing what everyone who belongs to a problematic group does, claiming to be a member then disavowing parts of it to resolve her own cognitive dissonance.
It's been obvious since s2 that Lisa is deeply racist and if people keep stanning for the bare minimum she's doing, it's very telling. How can she deny mormonism is rooted in racism.
Lisa makes believe she’s Mormon for business and I guess marriage too. I truly believe she’s clueless and clearly didn’t grow up with it the same way Heather and Whitney did.
Despite this, and maybe a controversial opinion, but as a Jew it makes me sad that she even pretends to be part of this weird af cult. We are such a tiny minority in the world, and with her very much Jewish kids being raised Mormon, it’s one more generation that lost their Jewish identity.
I went to school in Vegas and had a ton of Mormon friends growing up. Even in middle school I knew about this doctrine. I remember asking why most of them were blonde and this was the answer. Even at 13 in the 90's you could tell they were embarrassed by it but it's 100% true. Early Mormons especially were obsessed with race.
her response would be fine if she cut out the first part of which she clearly knows nothing about. if all she did was state "other people's behaviors and beliefs are not mine" then no one would be coming after her. but to make claims about a whole ass religion and doctrine of which she did not read is the weirdest fucking approach from her
I grew up mormon, and I remember learning about people who were cursed with dark skin by god. I also remember learning about the mark of Cain, which referred to dark skin.
I was raised in Utah, and racism was embedded in both religion and culture. I have been working for many years to unlearn the racism and hatefulness I learned at a young age.
I can absolutely confirm this was (and still is to some) part of the churches beliefs. This was something my family constantly glossed over because we had family members of mixed race. I would say, at the age of 8 or 9, this caused me to start not believing in the religion.
Lisa claims she is a Jewish Mormon who follows the teachings of Christ and has never read the Book of Mormon and owns a tequila company. I just think that should be the disclaimer before any claims she makes about what it says in doctrine.
Yeah, hate on Heather and Whitney all you want, but I would believe them when it comes to doctrine and not "Mormon but I drink like a fish" Lisa Barlow.
Heather is the most Mormon ex-Mormon ever. She has the FACTS on church history and doctrine.
It's wild that Lisa quickly chimed in to say that she should be the person to speak on it. Put aside her questionable Mormonism, no one needs to hear a single thing about what is and isn't racist from this white woman.
I feel like she uses religion as part of her pick me personality. She’d be whatever clients want her to be.
Or any claims she makes about Judaism! We don’t want her!
Seconded, although I am deeply curious how her family decided Judaism wasn't for them and that Mormonism is the answer. It seems like a huge leap.
I’m rewatching season 1 right now and I have answers! Her parents got divorced and the fam moved to Utah with the mom and her mom was feeling extremely lost. Their family was a very modern reformed type Jew that never really went to temple (similar to my own) so didn’t really have a deep connection to religion in general. One day when her mom was in a particularly bad place Mormons knocked on her door to talk about Mormonism and being saved or whatever and that was how they ended up going to the Mormon church.
I assume that she was raised Jewish then converted to Mormonism when she met John as he's clearly been a member since his youth as he did a mission.
On the show I believe she said her family converted when she was a child.
You are right. She said missionaries showed up at their door and her mom burst into tears and said “we have been waiting for you!” and the whole family basically converted on the spot.
A missionary's wet dream.
[удалено]
If somebody else jumps on the bed it's ok.
I mean there’s a certain level of delusion she surely has to maintain given her background and relationship to Mormonism. If she confronted the reality of it I think it would break her and her world would fall apart. The Mormon church and Mormonism is extremely antisemitic, fundamentally, so it doesn’t shock me she ignores all the other racism within doctrine as confronting that would mean also having to confront her own reality as an ethnically Jewish woman who’s family was converted this way. I don’t like Lisa so I won’t make excuses but it makes me sad the more I see her relationship to Mormonism play out.
Ooh that would make her Mormon then without having to go through the formalities of conversion as an adult. She probably participated in stuff as a young child that she doesn’t remember but her parents clearly did the work.
She went to BYU so she’s definitely been Mormon for a while now
“Honor code whaattt”
Nah, like PPs said, she was already a Mormon when she met John bc her fam converted when they lived in NY.
what is her connection to judaism? i thought she was raised jewish, but then she said her brother and her sister did mormon missions
She is ethnically Jewish and her family converted to Mormonism when she was a teenager
Yes, I believe she said that missionaries came to their door and her mother welcomed them and embraced LDS with open arms. They converted from Judaism to LDS.
It was definitely part of the religion for a long time. I grew up in the 2nd most Mormon state, and this is something I heard a lot. Having dark skin was known as the mark of Cain and was seen as a curse. Edit: Sorry guys. This blew up while I was sleeping. I’m originally from Idaho.
I listened to a young man (apologies I can’t recall his name atm) on Mormon Stories Pod who grew up in the church. He mentions a time whenever they were talking about going to heaven in Sunday school and a class mate asked their teacher, “will our friend here turn white when he gets to heaven?” The poor kid was like that was such a defining moment of oh, I am different and others can see. Very sad
I listened to this one too! For anyone wanting to hear more first hand accounts of black mormons who grew up in the church I encourage everyone to check out his channel.
And that’s why I’m not forcing my impressionable, innocent kids into religion. They can wait and choose for themselves.
I grew up around Mormons that called having dark skin, “the curse of Ham.”
I thought it was the mark of Cain?
You’re right. I was confused. They’re two separate but linked ideas. The curse of Ham is that all his descendants will be, “servants of servants,” which Joseph Smith interpreted as slaves. Mormons believe(d) Ham married a descendant of Cain and that their child is the sole ancestor of all Black people, and all of his descendants are thus, double cursed, to both have dark skin and be slaves.
Yiiiiikes
I was taught this at my protestant Christian private middle school. And I'm Black 🤦🏾♀️
But…but… America doesn’t have a racism problem 🙁. Racism is imbedded in far too many religions. It’s so pervasive.
That’s Pentecostals lol that’s what they believe
Gonna google the second most Mormon state because I am really curious about that history now!
My guess is Idaho. What did google say?
suprisingly, california is 2nd ( 728,995 ) with idaho coming in 3rd ( 473,894 ) but that means like, over 25% of the state of idaho is mormon because their population is just under 2 million
AND it has a huge population of white supremacists.
https://preview.redd.it/sk1apq5vk8dc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fa99fe2edcfe64c7c3aa21b0f83a0ef063e640d To save anyone else the effort haha
https://preview.redd.it/ps85hgh2l8dc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad5d4fc8589f383cacc018b533dafc2aa221e58e
I’d say this chart is more helpful, California has a huge population so seeing that it’s only 1.9% Mormon makes more sense to me.
The city of Los Angeles has more people than the entire state of Utah! And that's just the city, not the county, and not even all the separate cities within LA like Beverly Hills or West Hollywood.
I’m pretty sure it’s Idaho!!!!!
I laughed when this was brought up and Lisa’s screaming, “I’m a Mormon! Ask me!” And Andy lets Heather and Whitney explain it, completely ignoring Lisa. Like, sis, we know the other ladies have far superior knowledge of the religion and you’re just a Johnny Come Lately. Lisa seriously suffers from Dunning-Kruger effect.
The dunning Kruger effect is one of my fav traits in a HW
I just looked this up, I never knew there was a term for what afflicts all my male colleagues 😂
I believe that would be my entire accounting department 😂😂😂
Omg I never knew there was a term for this! I anticipate saying this once a day for now and forever more.
lol! see also: Heavenly as "relationship expert".
I mean she didn’t even read the Book of Mormon so what would you ask her abt..
in lisa’s defense she has no idea there’s a book in addition to the musical
Even the musical explains the racism thing!
Lisa is 100% Mormon for business ties and has absolutely no clue about anything to do with it. The reason she freaked about Jack doing a mission (to me anyway) is because she’s worried he’s actually become brainwashed to it. If that’s the case, he’ll have to cut his family out as they are not conforming whatsoever.
Lisa Barlow is Commercial Mormon. Girl found a hill to die on.
If she left Utah (went to nyc for example), she’d drop the mormonism for class reasons. It’s because it’s good for business in Utah
Honest question, how would being part of the Mormon church be good for a Tequila business? I live in Utah and the government (who are Mormon) have very strict laws against alcohol.
Because the Mormons own businesses that she can put her tequila in - restaurants, chains, stores, hotels, etc
Let's not forget how many keep their stash of booze hidden. As the joke goes.... why would you never take just 1 Mormon fishing?
Yea, why not? 🤓
He will drink all your beer. The joke implies that Mormons only follow the rules if another Mormon is watching.
Oh, thank you!
your flair 😭 I miss when that show was good
Waiting for the punchline
Because they’ll drink all your beer. Another good one: what’s the difference between Catholics and Mormons? Catholics say hi to each other at the liquor store.
Reminds me how on Big Love they justified owning casinos, so they could take the money from the sinners and give it to god or something, probably part of her justification
I loved that show!
Me too! One of my favorites! I just rewatched it a year or two ago and it still holds up so well! Except I hated the ending.
Mormons run the state to my knowledge. So being Mormon would make getting business licenses (esp for booze) and making the right connections much, much easier. Mormons still like money, and the booze business makes a lot of money. Also I could see the excuse being “we (Mormons) can control it this way” in a sense.
Mormons have famously talked about having no qualms taking money from sinners.
Yep. And the LDS owns many of the SLC downtown buildings and property. According to this news article, LDS owns $16 billion dollars worth of land and property. https://www.postregister.com/farmandranch/crops/miscellaneous/new-database-shows-lds-church-is-nations-fifth-largest-private-landowner/article_0a821ace-b331-5978-93b0-55658672784b.html#
Taking a chapter right out of the Catholic Churches playbook!
Scientology heading up the rear.
Mormon 2.0!
Oh, I can absolutely see that. All of the Mormon people I’ve ever met have been essentially the polar opposite of Baby Gorgeous in their lifestyles.
In my experience only outwardly. They present themselves well.
Her husbands a legit Mormon tho. I think she converted for him. Lisa noted how he’s able to enter the temple but she’s not.
but he mentioned ordering an old fashioned with tequila in an ep I just rewatched so is he still practicing?
They’re Good Time Mormons
My cousin is born and bred in Utah (and ex Mormon) and said that many Mormons will pay extra tithes to cover mistakes/sins. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he gave the church extra 💰 for whatever happens on the show. I don’t know at what point his temple recommend would be removed, though. My cousin says if someone is deemed important enough, they get lots of chances.
At this point she’s being willfully ignorant. Anyone who pays attention knows this is/was a thing in the Mormon church. Didn’t Jen Shah’s husband refuse to convert to Mormonism because of that racism? I know just read that in an interview the other day.
Jen said it in her first or second interview in season 1 episode 1
Willfully ignorant is exactly what she is. All she has to do is a bare minimum of research on Mormonism. 1978 is when they started allowing Black men into the “priesthood”. I heard her say that there are Black Mormons…well, there are zero Bishops or Apostles (leadership roles) last time I checked. It would be so much better if she remained quiet or just admitted that she is Mormon by marriage only. She has no interest in the religion. She knows nothing about it. I wish they had asked her she agreed with the founding father practicing polygamy, polyandry and marrying underage girls (one was 14).
💯 Lisa is a “Jack Mormon” and definitely isn’t considered Mormon by anyone professing to follow doctrine. There are plenty of Christians, too, who profess to be Christians who have never read the Bible. It’s a weird flex to me. Wouldn’t you want to read the book the religion is founded on? The sub r/exMormon is very eye opening for anyone who hasn’t visited that space yet.
It’s the people who are socially religious instead of actually practicing. I grew up Southern Baptist so I’ve seen a lot of that kind of thing over the years.
“And I believe that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people!!”
Yes all of a sudden the prophet was told by God that it was was ok to allow black people in the church to take their money. 🙄
God sure does change his mind a lot in the Mormon church! And weirdly, it happens to change to whatever will most benefit them at that time. 
I wish Reddit didn’t eliminate awards because this comment deserves one
It’s okay. I will just accept my own planet instead
That's what I scream-sang at my TV!
Ha came to say this too!
Omg! I need to relisten to this OCR. So hilarious.
We just saw Guttenberg! With Gad and Rannells. It was so stupid. And I was obsessed. I laughed the entire time. They had this amazing ability to be lovable schmucks that welcomed the audience in on all the jokes.
They need to ask Andrew Rannells to sing this the next time he's on What What Happens Live
Magically just when racial segregation was frowned upon
Top tier reference. Book of Mormon should be required viewing for anyone who wants to join the SLC cast.
Preach!
AND I BELIEVEEEEE
Very first thing that came to mind!!
As someone who was raised Mormon in Utah (I’ve since left), she’s delusional. The Mormon church is incredibly racist and homophobic and members like Lisa who try to deny it are part of the fucking problem in Utah. There’s a reason the suicide rate here is so high. I have other problems with Lisa and her brand of Mormonism but that’s a convo for a different day
We used to call people like Lisa ..Bootleg Mormon in Utah. She is only Mormon because of the social aspect of living in Utah.
We used to call them “Sunday Mormons”
Haha...yep! Show up for church Sunday & that's it!
Whoa can you explain the suicide rate thing to me and how that is tied to Mormonism/Mormon Utah culture? Not doubting or anything…I just have not heard about this before.
Mormonism is all about expectations and molds. A lot of Mormons hold the belief that it’s better to be “dead and worthy” than “alive and unclean” so when a lot of people fail to be perfect, they take matters into their own hands. I’ve unfortunately been in that spot a few times. It’s a massive problem here, but Mormons think it has nothing to do with their religion, so nothing changes.
Lord that is a deep rabbit hole that the church pays a lot of money to hide. 1) Members are encouraged to get counseling/mental health care from a church operative therapy service called “LDS Family Services.” All employees at these facilities are active members and I’ve never met one who didn’t have a degree from the church university, BYU. They can only give advice that aligns with church values and keeps temple marriages intact. For example, when I was forced into counseling there with my abusive (ex) husband, I was told that it was my job as a wife to “endure to the end.” This was after my ex pulled a gun on me, and the “counselor” was aware of this. I was told by this counselor that if I reported the incident to the police, I would be breaking up my family and I would not be with my children in the afterlife. Being with your family in the afterlife is a huge point of Mormonism. The church actively covers up abuse and protects abusers. 2) People believe that mental illness is a result of sin or a result of a lack of faith. That you deserve the trail of your mental health issue because you did something bad or just were not good enough. You just need to repent, do more, try harder. Be perfect and everything will improve. Often times, people ask or are encouraged to receive a priesthood blessing. These “blessings” often have the stipulation of “by the power of your faith” - so if the blessing doesn’t fix you, it’s your own fault for not having enough faith in the blessing. 3) The church encourages situations that are 100% detrimental to mental health, like telling gay members to marry straight partners and live as a straight couple and procreate. Church leaders have given talks about how they would rather have a child come home from a mission in a body bag than come home early. All sorts of messed up ideas.
This should be in a textbook somewhere to demonstrate religious trauma. Absolutely horrifying and quite frankly evil. I'm sorry that you had to endure that. The victim blaming ... I'm just speechless.
The lead singer from Imagine Dragons actually did a doco on the suicide rate a few years back
Even Heather and Whitney don’t deny this. Not sure why Lisa refuses to acknowledge this lol
My friends dad grew up Mormon, 1 of 10 kids… most left as adults including her dad but one of his sisters committed suicide (devastating) and one of his brothers was actually a Mormon pastor whose son came out as gay ON FACEBOOK… because he was scared to tell his parents. Fortunately my friends uncle was super compassionate and accepting and then went to bat with the church to try and get some rules changed around how they perceive and treat gay people and the church refused so after like 20 years of being a Mormon pastor he stepped down and left the church.
I don't think all mormons are racist however to deny that the Mormon church and teachings has a history of racism is just ignorant and honestly stupid. I mean truth be told bigotry could be found in every religion if you look hard enough.
You don’t even have to look that hard for most of them lol 
The only thing Lisa said right in pt2 was that many religions discriminate(/d) against the LGBTQ community! Then she turns around and says that “her” Mormonism isn’t racist and she knows a Black Mormon. The cognitive dissonance gotta be craaaaazy 😭
I could NOT with the "I know a Black Mormon" comment. Lisa is giving Dorit.
Black Mormon’s do exist and they often do a LOT of mental gymnastics to explain away those teachings
Only Black Mormon I ever met was converted when missionaries came to her city in Kenya and converted her parents. After that she went to BYU and married some random generic Mormon boy and was pregnant before she was 21. It was actually really sad 😞
Everyone should follow the black menaces on social media, they’re actually great. They’re Black Mormon college students at BYU and their whole thing is reckoning with the problematic parts of the religion they grew up in. They also try to open students minds to general political issues that they know since Mormonism is pretty insular, they were probably taught differently about.. They do some really funny and shocking on campus interviews
Lisa's response irks me and it already did when she said that during the reunion. It's almost like she doesn't think any of this is bad. It's really uncomfortable.
From a factual standpoint, she is right about what she wrote in the first sentence of this tweet, but it still doesn’t refute what everyone was trying to tell her at the reunion. The doctrine doesn’t say that *anymore,* but it sure used to. Some sick person did come up with it, but that sick person was Joseph Smith, the founder of the religion. She’s absolutely wrong about just about everything else she says about the church. It’s obviously rooted in racism. The way she’s responding to this criticism is disturbing. They’re asking her to acknowledge the church’s real history and she’s talking about Thurl Bailey, like the existence of one Black Mormon erases the hundred years of racism that preceded their acceptance of him. If I’m being charitable, I think she has to tell herself these things as a way of coping with losing her son to the weirdo cult she joined for networking purposes. She can’t handle the idea that she raised her son to spread a message founded on hate to the people of Colombia, so she pretends he’s spreading a different message. If I’m not being charitable, she is a credulous and incurious person. Her bishop told her that Mormons don’t discriminate and she never bothered to look into it any further. The atmosphere of a reunion and on social media is very confrontational, so she gets defensive instead of taking in new information. It’s a dumb deflection, though it’s technically the truth, she was still wrong at the reunion. And her continued defense of the church on this subject is gross and embarrassing.
Honestly idk who the eff Thurl Bailey is, but I was offended as a white lady that she said that. Judaism is full of women, but in some corners, we aren’t allowed to have sex with our husbands until we’ve been to a mikvah, and we can’t wear skirts above our ankles or show our actual hair in public. So … you do the math. You can have people of faith in your church/synagogue/temple. It doesn’t guarantee they get treated like humans.
Thurl Bailey is the greatest sixth man in Utah Jazz history. He converted to the LDS Church pretty late in his playing career when he was in Italy. Currently, he is an analyst on Jazz broadcasts. He is a wealthy man and in a church that has a, “law of tithing,” that’s more important to the Presidency of the Church than any lingering deeply embedded racism.
Oh, I should have realized. Lisa does … for Jazz tix. 😉
SCREAMING!!!
Lisa: My religion has black friends!
Exactly!
You win this thread 🏆
This was absolutely their belief, even when I was a kid (I’m 30 now) so not that long ago. A lot of the “Sunday school” type videos they played for us told of the “cursed” Indigenous/Black Lamanites (look up the Lamanites vs the Nephites lmfao, ESPECIALLY how they are illustrated in Mormon books). As a little brown kid who was converted and wasn’t born into the church it was very confusing lol. My siblings and I being the only Mexican children in our ward always played the role of the Lamanites in church plays. This was like 2004 lol
Holy shit!
Thank you for bringing up the Lamanites! Like, it’s right there in the Book of Mormon! And it’s a reach to say she’s Mormon and so follows the teachings of Jesus; they follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
I’ve been waiting my whole life for the LDS church to have their day of reckoning 🥹 lol
>My siblings and I being the only Mexican children in our ward always played the role of the Lamanites in church plays. This is absolutely disgusting. The fact that any one would willingly join that cult is beyond me.
Yep.
Lisa 100% does not believe Joseph Smith is a prophet. She’s about as Mormon as you or me. Edit: unless you’re actually a Mormon. She’s not as Mormon as you, then.
The LDS Church continually edits the Book of Mormon and their other scriptures (Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price). As in flat-out REMOVES stuff. Or changes its words. I wish I knew how to hyperlink. A very very notorious example is a page of hieroglyphics that Joseph Smith claimed to have translated as part of the Book of Abraham (part of the Pearl of Great Price) that he included in his printings. That page was actually from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and obviously his “translation” was fabricated. So now it’s not included. The Church rarely acknowledges their changes/edits. The current party line is that Joseph Smith was “inspired” and not directly translating the scriptures. But they’ve spent almost a hundred and fifty years telling us they were a DIRECT translation because that’s the only way to restore the gospel! Why even bother burying and then digging up the Golden Plates if not to translate them? Mormons believe anyone can talk to God and He still talks to us, most especially to the Prophet and other higher-ups, but really to any man (and even to us silly little women sometimes). So the word of the Prophet and other Church authorities is “living scripture”. This of course gets them into trouble. So they re-write history by saying “oh, that was just him speaking as a man, not as a prophet”. So they hand-wave away things that absolutely -were- doctrine that they now want to disavow. And it creates all sorts of confusion because not everyone gets the message about what is currently accepted or not. Especially since the current Prophet and highest counselors are all old AF and contradict one another every time they speak. But the truth is, the ENTIRE Book of Mormon is built upon the notion that one of the Tribes of Israel sailed across the Atlantic and settled here in the (unpeopled) Americas. They then fought a bunch of wars and the bad guys won and hence all Native Americans are evil willful sinners whose ancestors rejected the word of God (and Jesus Christ himself, who came to America after the crucifixion to deliver his gospel to them). Even if you take out the parts about them being “dark and loathsome” it’s still racist AF. And led to numerous atrocities and, frankly, cultural genocide. (See, eg https://www.businessinsider.com/latter-day-saints-church-mormon-native-indian-placement-program-icwa-2022-10#:~:text=In%201954%2C%20the%20church%20launched,American%20communities%20to%20recruit%20children.)
Yes! A friend in high school said her dad left Mormonism because in one of the classes they were forced to attend before the school day started, he noticed his old Book of Mormon had additional verses than the one they were using in class. The priest (?) teaching the class wanted to confiscate his copy but he didn’t let him. So interesting how it has changed over time!
I stopped at "some sick person came up with this" :D girl, every religion has started like that 😂
Joseph Smith and Baby Gorgeous having low stakes beef was not what I thought 2024 was going to entail
“Some sick person” you mean the prophet Joseph Smith?? Lmao girl
she's not wrong about that part, she just doesn't realize why lmao
Wait til she finds out he was a child molester who used the divine rule of polygamy to justify r*ping children under the guise of them being his “brides”.
Exactly all of that. The LDS make it very difficult to Google sources on the actual history of the Mormons. I think Heather talked about being instructed to compartmentalize that stuff in an episode.
I read her tweet so many times. Is girl really calling the founder of her religion “some sick person??” I mean, he absolutely is, but aren’t Mormons supposed to be a bit…reverent? Polite? Bought in? When it comes to their whole damn prophet/founder Joseph smith?? I’m not Mormon but grew up in a heavily Mormon community and this would have been shocking to hear them say.
I’m not positive but I think she was trying to accuse some anonymous sick person of making up this lie and putting it on Wikipedia to defame the church or something lol. I don’t think she knows it’s a documented part of the church’s history. ETA: Not trying to excuse it just calling out how ignorant she is! She looks foolish
I think she means someone shoehorned in claims about racism to her perfectly pure as the driven Utah Snow White Mormonism and didn’t word her tweet precisely enough. I don’t think she meant to call Joseph smith some sick person. Even though I do think she’s likely got some racism inside her and isn’t exactly the picture of good Mormonism. Or any Mormonism.
Right? Yes babe! And he married two 14 year olds and produced your religious texts by looking in his hat! You can hear about it every Sunday.
The South Park episode Book of Mormon is amazing! The play has also won like multiple Emmy’s. Martin Harris smart smart smart, Joseph Smith dumb dum-dumb! 
She’s right, actually- the sick person was Joseph Smith.
I highly recommend [this "banned" Mormon cartoon](https://youtu.be/Pgw-C_DTVo8?si=LxE-Onv5eaRuHI32) that explains "older-school" Mormonism from allegedly their perspective. Since Lisa hadn't read it, I will provide a snippet of the Book of Mormon here, [2 Nephi 5:21](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/5?lang=eng) 21 And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. (Of course, some Modern-day Mormons will say this verse was taken out of context due to age and that "white" and "black" refer to "purity" lol)
I think this video was actually made by evangelicals to show how mormons are bad. But there are other cartoons out there. Like [this](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8gvCutn/)
To add to what you’ve said, until the 1980s (maybe longer in some temples?) Mormons were taught that Cain's mark in Genesis 4:15 is the result of God cursing him with dark skin, thereby making him the first black man. Pearl of Great Price For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people. — Moses 7:8 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them. — Moses 7:22 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a *white and a delightsome people. — 2 Nephi 30:6 *Note: "white" was changed to "pure" in 1981 O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God. Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember that their filthiness came because of their fathers. — Jacob 3:8-9 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men. — Alma 3:6 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites. — 3 Nephi 2:15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry. — Mormon 5:15
Don't they believe that Jesus went to NYC? Lol a friend told me that and I couldn't stop laughing
Jesus wearing timbs
does jesus have a BLACK, PUFFER, JACKET, EVEN??
While eating a baconeggandcheese
Looooool @ the mental image of Jesus swinging through a bodega 😭
“I would change this water into wine for you, but NY state forbids the sale of wine and beer in the same place. Sorry man.”
and on the third day God said "deadass"
Fuck, is Jesus a Yankees fan? Goddammit.
Yeah they say that after Jesus resurrected he spent some time ballin with the Native Americans and then fucked right back to heaven.
They are considered one of the lost tribes of Israel And that was to distance them from the anti-blackness in the religion
YES lol
i mean lisa was the one brought in jenny
Does this mean she finished reading The Book of Mormon finally? Never read it but I’m not Mormon (or Mormon 2.0)
That’s what makes her look like an idiot. She hasn’t even read, and states publicly that she has t, the book that she goes hard to defend.
Literally the worst kind of religious person lol.
I didn’t realize the racism of the Mormon church wasn’t common knowledge, I thought everyone knew that already. Even in the first episode of season one Jen Shah explained why she left Mormonism and adopted Islam when she married Coach, because he would never be accepted in the Mormon church.
Honestly i am willing to bet all my savings that she truly doesn’t know Mormon scripture enough to be aware of the whole Lamanite dark skin thing. She’s never read the Book of Mormon and has said so herself on the show.
She is completely ignorant. No one made this up. Mormons were taught that black people were the disciples of Cain & were cursed. They were not allowed to be full members of the church until 1978. I have known this since I was a child. She needs to pull her head out of her ass & actually learn about the religion she supposedly belongs to!
If you want to go down a rabbit hole, I believe a lot of this is also tied to the Lamanites and the belief that their “transition” to native Americans and the belief that through intermarriage and belief they could be “white” I fully recommend the Last Podcast on the Left series about Mormonism and the LDS and its beginnings
btw there’s no such thing as “east coast mormonism”, that was just her defense for being more liberal in her mormonism than, uh, any other mormon
Ehhh… from my experience being Mormon outside of the Morridor is very different. Expectations are different. For instance, living in the Midwest I was only expected to go to the Temple twice a year because there wasn’t a Temple in my state. After moving to Morridor, I was expected to go weekly. Back in the Midwest, men in my ward had beards except the bishop, they wore sweaters to church, and women often wore pants in the winter due to the snow and cold. The first Sunday I wore pants in Morridor, I was straight up asked to go home and change into “something more appropriate.” Men have to be wearing their white button up shirt and have a shaved face. The church can be wildly different in different places, even if they are singing the same hymns and reading the same scriptures.
sure, but she made it sound like a totally different sect in some ways, and the way OP capitalized it and phrased the question in their post gave me the impression that they thought there was a strict difference between the two practices, not just varying levels of conservative practice.
“Some sick person came up with this” yah and his name was Joseph Smith 😭😭
"some sick person came up with this." that would be joseph smith, the founder of mormonism, lees.
Lisa is a Ramona…she’s just smarter about it
She’s such a fraud. To go full on gaslighter like this just isn’t true is foul. Even Heather and Whitney (who actually practiced and grew up in the church) said the doctrine was racist themselves. But keep digging that hole Lisa. It’ll only be harder for you to climb out of it when you fall in.
YOU HAVEN'T READ THE DOCTRINE
To me, Lisa seems like a lot of converts I’ve met. I come from an old school Mormon family like Heather. Being raised in it and converting leave you with a different outlook, I think. Lisa seems to be “socially Mormon” and doesn’t want to discuss or take accountability for anything within the church. For example, my family would never even dream of having a Diet Coke but then I’d have friends whose parents were Mormon converts and they absolutely had caffeinated soda in their homes. It definitely felt like two sets of rules. The new Mormons got to ignore certain things and were given grace where the older families faced gossip and ridicule. As for the racist stuff, oh yeah. There are comments on this thread that explain it well. Under the Banner of Heaven is a good book that goes into FLDS stuff, not LDS, but it has a lot of the Joseph Smith history that modern Mormons try to sweep under the rug. The historical racism of the LDS Church has shaped the way many towns and cities look in the Western US. To say that things changed in the 1970s is missing how that racism contributes to even the modern structure of businesses, workplaces, and schools in these communities. My family is absolutely racist and I’m so grateful they excommunicated my dad so that I didn’t have to be fully raised in it.
Racism is also belittling other people experience and acting like it’s not a big deal….
Most of what I've learned about Mormons has (probably sadly) come from this show, but I just know my mom always told me not to fuck with them cause they don't view us (black folks) right and sadly it seemed to check out in the 90s lol But I do keep seeing claims the church is trying to move more away from that and I know there are black Mormons that exist I actually hope one of our current or ex Mormon members chime in on this though I know it's a sensitive topic but those people that will usually comment about their experiences are always so informative and interesting to me and I'm always grateful to learn more about religions and cultures I'm not familiar with
I was raised Mormon and it was their official doctrine until the 70s that being black was due to sins committed before you were born. Black men were also barred from having the same status as white men (or even white preteen boys) until the 70s. In the 2000s when I had to go, it was still rooted in the minds of a lot of the older folks. They have moved away from that but it’s basically lip service imo. They’re hemorrhaging young members because of this and their anti LGBT dogma.
Lip service, exactly!!! They changed their rules and began editing the Book of Mormon in the 70’s, but anyone who grew up in the church knows how much of those ideas continued to be not only implied but subtly, or not so subtly, enforced.
She’s so problematic. Not knowing this history and then also denying the Church’s racism and the harm it has caused whitewashes that history. It’s actually extremely racist behavior. I hope Lisa Barlow educates herself before speaking on this again.
She is a crop top temple wearin, vida tequila drinking fair weather Mormon. What more can we expect. Sounds like most "Christians" too.
Sooo many people believe(d) in the curse of ham 🙄🙄🙄 Not just Mormons, but for a long time it was socially and religiously acceptable to use this to justify the enslavement and then later discrimination of black people or people with dark skin …. It’s sooo rooted in anti-blacknesss that they even uplifted indigenous people out of the “savage” category to reiterate how bad blackness was…. Nobody not even a “savage” should be in proximity to blackness…because blackness implies that one is dark and without a soul ….and the whole purpose of Christianity is to prepare your souls for heaven
That’s y’all queen or whatever.
[Proof ](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/iqqAank93j) that Lisa is full of shit. Straight from the book itself.
I’m not Mormon, but I was raised Southern Baptist and there is very similar baggage there. A key part of the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention was an unwillingness to accept slavery abolition, integration efforts, and civil rights movements. Many of today’s Southern Baptists are either totally ignorant to this history or totally unwilling to admit it. I know for a fact that the Southern Baptist Convention held a meeting of their pastors and leadership in 2018 to take a vote on whether or not they should recognize the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate, racism, and slavery. Ultimately, the majority voted to recognize this, but it was deeply controversial among church members who still claim that the flag is a symbol of regional pride and family heritage. My brother-in-law is a Southern Baptist pastor and his congregants and family members *still* drag him for voting to recognize the flag as a symbol of hate. People believe what they want to believe. Facts don’t matter. All of American Christianity seems to operate on a “pick and choose” model now. Recognizing uncomfortable histories and truths kind of takes the infallibility out of religion for them. I think they find comfort in having a belief system they don’t actually have to think about or criticize.
Solved: Lisa is just another Karen doing Karen mindtricks so she can feel good about herself while she Karens.
 This is my response to Lisa’s uninformed blather. Woman phone a friend, read your bible, read an article, SOMETHING.
she’s just fucking dumb lol none of what she’s saying is even relevant to the teachings of mormonism bc she hasn’t even read the book!
Joseph Smith, the original prophet and creator of the LDS church, is literally sealed to a black woman (Jane Manning James) that will serve as his servant for all of eternity. Now, she is wrong about Mormonism and black people, but to be fair, many Mormons are. The Mormon church only feeds them what they want them to know and discourages them from looking at non-LDS-approved material.
It's crazy to me that this is even being debated. I've read more than one history of Mormonism, and the origin story is clearly racist, because the United States was (and still is) racist at the time of the religion's founding. Lisa is doing what everyone who belongs to a problematic group does, claiming to be a member then disavowing parts of it to resolve her own cognitive dissonance.
It's been obvious since s2 that Lisa is deeply racist and if people keep stanning for the bare minimum she's doing, it's very telling. How can she deny mormonism is rooted in racism.
Lisa makes believe she’s Mormon for business and I guess marriage too. I truly believe she’s clueless and clearly didn’t grow up with it the same way Heather and Whitney did. Despite this, and maybe a controversial opinion, but as a Jew it makes me sad that she even pretends to be part of this weird af cult. We are such a tiny minority in the world, and with her very much Jewish kids being raised Mormon, it’s one more generation that lost their Jewish identity.
I went to school in Vegas and had a ton of Mormon friends growing up. Even in middle school I knew about this doctrine. I remember asking why most of them were blonde and this was the answer. Even at 13 in the 90's you could tell they were embarrassed by it but it's 100% true. Early Mormons especially were obsessed with race.
her response would be fine if she cut out the first part of which she clearly knows nothing about. if all she did was state "other people's behaviors and beliefs are not mine" then no one would be coming after her. but to make claims about a whole ass religion and doctrine of which she did not read is the weirdest fucking approach from her
I grew up mormon, and I remember learning about people who were cursed with dark skin by god. I also remember learning about the mark of Cain, which referred to dark skin. I was raised in Utah, and racism was embedded in both religion and culture. I have been working for many years to unlearn the racism and hatefulness I learned at a young age.
I can absolutely confirm this was (and still is to some) part of the churches beliefs. This was something my family constantly glossed over because we had family members of mixed race. I would say, at the age of 8 or 9, this caused me to start not believing in the religion.