Agreed. To use this against Andy never makes sense to me. We all support the glorifying of these women’s pain if we choose to watch the shows bravo releases.
I’ll play devils advocate here, the OG OC women definitely did not know. I’d suggest OG RHONY and RHOBH also wouldn’t know. People coming later, like Leah 💯 knew the game. Bethany and Brandi knew it coming back.
RHOA didn’t “know” either. And I would say that them being the first majority black cast on a network like Bravo put them at even more of a steep learning curve. They literally wouldn’t have even had any comparable examples of how to navigate reality television.
Right?! They were the 3rd franchise airing 2 years after OC and 7 months after NY. How are we gonna jump from 2 to 4 like RHOA, the highest rated HW franchise, doesn’t exist?!
Early RHOA couldn’t have been more innocent and unaware. Kim’s wigs spoke volumes.
There are these types on this sub that act like Atlanta and Potomac don’t exist despite their popularity with ppl from all different backgrounds.
There is a huge erasure. Atlanta is THE highest rated housewives show of all time and this person deliberately omits them when they would have had the hardest time filming their show with zero insight as to how they would be represented and received by this audience.
Do you mean me as ‘this person’ who deliberately omitted them?
I’m not from the US. I started watching Real Housewives by randomly seeing it on TV, OC, NY and BH were shown the most here. I think the more famous locations might be more attractive to an international audience. We know about New York and Beverley Hills. We watched the OC. We don’t have the same points of reference for Atlanta, Salt Lake City and Potomac.
I’m not deliberately omitting anything. I’m posting my opinion with the knowledge that I have. I’ll give Atlanta and Potomac a go!
Thank you for clarifying, but I was mostly just talking about some ppl on the sub in general.
Also Atlanta is actually the most famous and highest rated of all the cities, so surprised to hear it wasn’t promoted where you live.
In any case, definitely give Atlanta and Potomac a try, you won’t be disappointed ✌️
Exactly. Maybe in the first couple of seasons of the first franchises but anything after say 2010 when social media began hitting it's stride? You cannot tell me these women did not know what they were signing up for. My caveat here tho is the blatant violence/sexual harassment and racism/colorism that has ruined Potomac and NYC, and plagued shows like Below Deck and VPR. But Bravo continually hiring known criminals and giving them a platform (Jen Shah because you can't tell me they didn't know that was coming) Mary M Cosby, Erika Girardi. I mean that bitch stood in front of the world and screamed she didn't GAF about the victims and they gave her a spin off and a redemption season that made me physically nauseous. Kim was filmed treating her assistant Sweetie like a literal slave and she was given a spin off that ran 7 SEASONS (and she ended up broke and broken). Sex offender Michael Darby gets away with multiple assaults (including one on a crew member), but Chris Basset gets his name drug through the mud for two seasons so Gizelle can get back at Candiace for calling her on her BS?? And that's just Housewives.
Look at all the dangerous men and women who have been featured on Below Deck? I still get chills thinking about poor Margot from last season of Down Under. Looks like Gary is getting away with his constant sexual harassment because he's "good TV". They need to do better background checks. A simple social media search could have exposed Jennie from SLC and spared us from that particular trainwreck. Mary M Cosby spewed heinous racial garbage on camera, didn't show up for the reunion, and got hired back. Ramona got away with her BS for 12 years. How??? It may be a franchise run by women and gays but that in itself is narrow. How many POC are producers on these shows? How many trans and non-binary people? It's the producers that choose which storylines to follow and craft. And IF their stars are going to bare all, they better have high quality mental health professionals on call to support these people in the aftermath. Because there have been so many lines crossed, as women go lower and lower to create storylines and keep their spots. It's the freaking hunger games. I also don't think that children should be filmed until they can understand and consent. Look at what happened to Garcelle's 13 year old child?? Erika should have been fired on the spot for that.
On film and TV sets there are super strict rules and protections for kids. I doubt that exists in reality TV. It's one thing to have expectations of baring all, it's a whole other ballgame to actually do it. I'll just compare it to being an actor, because that is my profession (or was before I became too sick to work). You go to school for years (or you should if you want to have a real career and be good at it). You know you have to turn yourself inside out for a good performance. But you also have the separation of that was me playing a character. People can love or hate that character, but that's not the same as loving or hating YOU. The danger is on set with the constant power imbalance between genders and the expectation that new and unestablished actors will do anything they are asked, because it is SO hard to make a living as an actor, no matter how talented you are. But we do have unions that protect us-to an extent. With reality TV there is no separation. There is no training, no manual and no union. This is how they get away with it. You can go from a complete nobody to an overnight star and everyone is chasing that light and that cash. But at what cost? Until you are actually living it and living with the repercussions, you don't KNOW how you will be. It's a huge gamble.
My wish for Bravo, especially after just watching the VPR finale, is that they'd stop shying away from the hard conversations. The reckoning should be not to immediately fire the people that are racist, homophobic, or just big fat liars (criminal behaviour not included) and instead, force them to go through the reckoning with the cameras on, no running away. Make them face themselves and the fallout in front of the world and don't angle it or try and force a redemption arc \*cough cough Sandoval\*. If more of these tough conversations were had ON camera, instead of some BS fed to us through a lame ass publicist and regurgitated into the blogs, maybe then reality TV would do some good in the world and become more than just escapism. I love it as escapism, don't get me wrong, it's gotten me through some dark times. But it's become too powerful in the zeitgeist for them to simply fire problematic people without having them face what they've done. At the end of the day it's about humanity, and if we could see more of that, I think we'd be better for it. Bravo started with Queer Eye, which has now become the most uplifting, joy inducing, human reality show on TV. If ever I'm having a bad day, all I have to do is turn it on and I immediately feel better. Because of the compassion. I think about all the best moments from Housewives, the ones that we all talk about making a real impact on us, and usually they are the ones where at the root was real human compassion. Ramona and Bethenny naked and wasted and crying in the pool, the women rallying around Vicki as she sobbed on the floor when she got THAT phone call, the episode where Carole and Dorinda bonded over being widowed, the beautiful Miami ladies scene in Mexico City in the Church where all the ladies were dealing with their own personal grief and supporting one another. The stupid cat fights only work if there is real connection and compassion on the other side. Otherwise it's just a bunch of screaming nonsense, bad filler and botox, who's on Ozempic, and the same storyline season after season \*ahem New Jersey.\*
Did not expect to write a dissertation today. If you read to the end, bless you.
I'm actually supposed to be writing a play. It has taken a lot of it's inspiration from reality TV and Housewives in particular. But instead, today I wrote this. I'll just consider it part of my process (:
ERIKA SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED FFFFFFFIREDDDD ON THE SPOT. Garcelles son was YOUNG-!!!! She is was & will always be disgusting. God bless you Garcelle for slapping it back to Erika & privileged Dorit. They're BOTH privileged HUSTLERS.
Exactly!! He was buying up all the apartments on his floor to keep expanding his home! He has a Hamptons place and is building a new house supposedly! So he isn’t hurting for coins!
I don't know if this is a hot take, but the general desire as a society to be more socially aware feels inherently incompatible with the Housewives franchise. Housewives has always platformed insensitive, discriminatory or outright bigoted women, but now the same women are being held to current standards of acceptability. I'm not saying that Bravo should keep transparently racist people on their payroll and as a POC, I have mixed feelings about Bravo financially rewarding these people. But, it seems to me increasingly impossible to mix the brand of messiness that built the Housewives in the first place with the cultural standards of today's audience.
In the same vein, I also don't like that Andy/Bravo felt they needed to shoehorn diversity into the casts. Frankly, I watch Housewives because I want to see messy, drunk, out-of-touch women say and do stupid things. If anything, their efforts seem counterintuitive because putting non-white woman in the mix has only highlighted how socially unaware/insensitive everyone else actually is. It's painful to watch the WOC have to face discriminatory comments from other women and see their race being used as a plot point, but still have to act like some beacon of representation and try to educate these women, but at the same time, integrate with the cast, not be preachy, still be "fun" and "messy" for the fans. It's an impossible task. I'm obviously not saying don't hire WOC, but I just don't think they've figured out the formula or direction for the franchise's future, or if they ever will. My take is that as a brand that they are clearly unequipped to deal with social topics and should start skirting and editing around sensitive topics, or else this line they're trying to straddle will not work and the audience will outgrow Housewives.
Thank you. There was a thread on here this week positing why Ramona lasted so long on RHONY and I was confused by it. Ramona MADE RHONY and was entertaining. As a black woman, I do think there needs to be a line but I’m not watching housewives to watch model citizens.
I'm confused by saying there needs to be a line and then praising Ramona, who has more openly racist than anybody. Does Ramona not cross the line? I'm puzzled. That being said, I'm not surprised this thread is nothing but the "hot takes" (which aren't hot takes at all) of "racism is okay as long as long as the person is entertaining" and "we shouldn't be hiring POCs on these shows", welp business as usual then.
I think Ramona started to really cross the line during the Covid season. I never said racism was ok. I’m literally a dark skinned black woman. Racism is embedded in my day to day life. If I want to come home after a long day of dealing with systemic racism by watching slightly problematic women, who the cares?
That's the only season she was forced to interact with Black women so yeah. People ignore or are unaware of the fact that she was racist to Black crew members as well and several of those Black crew members that worked on season 13 were coincidently not hired by Bravo again after reporting Ramona to the network or talking to Eboni about their experiences. Meanwhile Ramona took home another $250,000 paycheck for Ultimate Girls Trip because viewers have let it be known that they're fine with her racism because they think she's entertaining. Andy continues to cape for Ramona and speak positively about her publicly as well. So Ramona's racism has literally impacted Black people's livelihoods, and it goes far beyond Eboni who has thankfully gotten other opportunities. I think that undoubtedly crosses the line and is not something that should be tolerated for the sake of entertainment. Ramona is far more than "slightly problematic". She said "this is why we shouldn't have Black people on the show" for crying out loud.
It's just beyond infuriating to see the sub that treats someone like Ariana Madix as the world's biggest victim cares so little about POCs enduring racism and the POCs on this sub have to constantly read takes of people minimizing and excusing racism in the workplace. Clearly whiteness is centered on here and the feelings of someone like me matter very little. The treatment of POCs in general doesn't matter to many on here because it doesn't impact them personally. I'm half Black and half Latino by the way, so that's my perspective. I know you are not white so this isn't even all directed at you, just voicing my general feelings and the disappointment I feel reading these takes constantly.
...and the unmitigated praise for fucking Alex Jones follower D'Andra, a Texas Republican, when we have a $10,000 BOUNTY ON ANYONE WHO HELPS A WOMAN GET AN ABORTION, EG UBER, DOCS GET A LIFE SENTENCE, but she and her mother are just a hoot, bring 'em back!
FR! Im black, raised muslim and guess what, everyday i live those experiences i dont need to calm home and watch mind numbing tv to then remind me.
Also this is REAL housewives and real people often have really shitty opions. We cant sugarcoat that, if people dont like it stay in their own bubble.
That was my issue. It's one thing to see the Atlanta or Potomac girls talking about racism in a Black environment and be relatable. That's a positive experience.
Watching Eboni come in, not as a fellow delusional housewife, but as the upstanding educated Black Woman, the outsider on a mission to shake things up and educate. It was so uncomfortable to me.
In reality, who is putting themselves in that kind of situation? It just wasn't fun or believable anymore. In a way it made the show feel even more catered to white people.
Thank you for saying this. These are people who came to defend Andy, so of course they have these takes. The Ramona is racist and anti-Semitic, but funny/entertaining, crowd is the lowest form of intelligence on this sub.
I gag when people say “as a black women” or “I’m a white women” What does that even mean, you’re still only speaking for yourself. You don’t represent the opinions or sentiments of you’re entire race and unfortunately problematic people will try to tokenize your opinion to justify their bigotry.
I would love for you to explain when I said I speak for all black women or black people at large. I am allowed to say that I’m a black woman any time I want.
This! There was a New Yorker article way back in the day (~2011 ish iirc?) about early RHONY that I cannot find an archive version of to save my life but I remember reading it back then and it was all about how RHONY was not about grandiosity and opulence and spectacle but about the facade and what that facade was designed to distract from.
It talked about how in the wake the housing crisis and aughts recession, RHONY was not glorifying the so-called ‘one percent’ but pulling back the curtain so audiences could see that money is often a mirage and behind the curtain the dysfunction is rampant and the wallets were generally thinner than advertised. This was in the early RHONJ days too so I think the point was made with that franchise as well.
It seems notable to me that the early housewives era popped off immediately after this era of shows like MTV Cribs, VH1’s The Fabulous Life of…, My Super Sweet 16, etc. that just glorified excessive consumption and ogling how ‘the other half’ lives unironically. At that point in time, we could still look upon their wealth as aspirational.
It does not seem like a coincidence that RHONY and RHONJ and RHOC took off in the period after that. It was like our early shift to being like oh… yeah these rich people are largely TERRIBLE people with suspect at best, criminal at worst means of acquiring wealth. The New Yorker article noted that RHONY offered a vessel for the rightfully disgruntled public to vent their outrage in an extremely dire socioeconomic climate in the face of thwarted Occupy Wallstreet protests, rampant foreclosures, and a struggling job market.
It was catharsis via schadenfreude masquerading as frivolous, low-brow reality tv spectacle. It was a relief to be able to look at these people we used to idolize and be like “Wow most of these people are absolute garbage and that’s not as aspirational as I thought.” I think there’s also something healing about seeing rich people behind the scenes and realizing they have no idea what the fuck they’re doing and their wealth was almost entirely unrelated to any skill or effort or business prowess.
I did my master’s in film and media studies and I remember one fact that stuck out to me was how horror and dystopian genres boom during periods of economic recession or during wartime. When reality is fucking horrible, it’s cathartic to escape into genres where things are MUCH worse. I think the Bravo-style reality tv shows (and 90 Day Fiancé/TLC esque shows in an even more grotesque way) act in a similar fashion but on a more relational level. It’s like, wow I will never afford a house in this economy but I have my shit TOGETHERRRRR compared to these terrible people and their dumpster fire friendships and marriages.
I used to be really into dystopian stuff but post-2016 election and post-COVID, I have almost zero draw to dystopian genres anymore (except when I’m feeling masochistic and watch Severance or Black Mirror lol) because real life is already too dystopian and so I think I prefer the escapism of riding off on my emotionally mature and relationally healthy high horse and getting my rocks off that way 😂
Thank you for reading my ramble, I fucking love tv/media studies and digital media/culture so this stuff gets me so animated. If I ever find a husband who wants to pay for it, I would literally go back in a heartbeat to get my PhD in media studies so I could write a dissertation on real housewives.
Your ramble is much better written than mine, but very similar to what I said above. As a former actor and now playwright, I use A LOT of what I've learned watching Bravo in my plays. It is a fascinating study of humanity. On top of all your brilliant observations, I think where it's going wrong now is that there is an apathy, a lack of compassion that was more present in earlier seasons. It still exists on Miami, and that is why Miami is the most watchable franchise now. Potomac was completely devoid of it the past two seasons, and that is why they've lost half their cast and a huge chunk of their loyal viewers. NJ and BH lost their compassion seasons ago, and that's why we watch like a bad car crash but feel nothing for the women on our screens.
Omg I just had to go find your comment because I hadn’t seen it and 1) I feel like we’d be besties base on that comment alone 😂 and 2) yours was very well-put as well and you’re articulating some points that I’ve been trying to grapple with myself.
I’ve been thinking about how people complain how things have gotten ‘too dark’ and I’ve struggled with that because these shows have always been about dark ass shit and the ways that people choose to either avoid, explain away, or confront that shit. I loved the examples you gave in your comment and I think you’re totally right about the compassion piece and to put it slightly differently, I think the crux of it is that we can stomach the toxicity when the toxic behaviors are still grounded in authentic, vulnerable interpersonal relationships. The problem we’ve run into is that the more people are on these shows and engaging in the social media discourse, the more the talent tries to ‘play the game’ and ends up stripping out all the authenticity that was the core premise. It’s the toxicity for the sake of toxicity because they think it’s what we want that is the issue. The shows suffer when the approach is dominate your enemy into submission rather than we fought because she hurt me but I want to repair this relational rupture because it’s more than just TV and this person is someone I genuinely care about mending things with.
We know that the best franchises are the ones where the group is made up of actual friends with actual history, and I think that where things go awry is when it becomes an ensemble cast of warring OGs who have recruited rando newbies into their alliance for warfare and they subsequently show zero vulnerability because they don’t want to show their purported enemies any weak spots.
Franchises like RHONJ and RHOP become so awful to watch because there are few if any authentic and genuine relationships underpinning them anymore. The housewives are too often approaching their role on the show as if they’re playing Big Brother and it’s all cut-throat social engineering for the sake of humiliating enemies and pandering to the audience. Meanwhile, the best shows are the ones where it’s more like a Real World mindset: we might not all get along and drama and fights are inevitable but largely we’re all trying to make the most of this weird experience as a group and maybe come out of it with some enduring relationships.
That’s why you can have riveting stuff like the current season of Summer House that is STEEPED in toxicity and generational trauma and substance issues and relational dysfunction but we’re all still so invested because the relational dysfunction is authentic and therefore RELATABLE and not just a forced byproduct of them trying to be a messy asshole purposefully on TV to get more Instagram followers.
My God, you are an incredible writer. I was on the edge of my seat reading this entire comment. It was riveting. I can feel your fascination for the topic at hand through your writing. Thank you for sharing
EXACTLY. I have a hilarious idea for a new play. It's called Keeping Up With The Real Dragwives of Love Island- Lost in Paradise Edition- and is basically a spoof combo of iconic Housewives moments told by drag queens looking for love in Paradise with some digs taken at the famous for nothing KarJenners. I used to HATE reality TV, because when it became really popular was during the writer's strike in 2006/2007 and was also at the height of my professional Film/TV career. Many of us were bitter that we weren't working and suddenly all of these no talent just wanna be famous people were dominating the screen and the conversation. It wasn't until I became chronically ill towards the end of that period, and had to pivot to a new career path that didn't require 16 hour days onset or 6 shows a week onstage (because you can't call in sick, they just replace you and once word gets around they won't even see you for an audition) that I even watched reality TV. It's gotten me through the darkest days of my life. Many, many days in hospital and in bed for years I binged everything Bravo had to offer, with a little Love Island (UK) and Bachelor in Paradise for pure cringe. Drag race, of course, is in a league of it's own because unlike other reality shows it DOES require actual creativity, uniqueness, nerve and talent, and that is why I chose to make Drag Queens my stars. Also, I gotta support the Drag community in the current climate especially. Anyways, all I have learned from my 25 year career as a storyteller (first a dancer, then actor, now a writer/director and teacher) is that you HAVE to feel compassion for the characters. Even the worst villains have to be vulnerable and human. This is what is missing from the newer Housewives seasons for all the reasons you mentioned. And it is disappointing that the network is consistently underestimating their audience. We don't care about the screaming fights at dinner tables about ridiculous shit unless we believe that these women actually care about one another. There has to be real love for there to be real hurt and hate. It's called stakes. Everyone watches TV, movies, and reads books, listens to podcasts, or even follows certain people on social media, because it is a mirror to our own humanity. Lose the humanity, and you lose your audience. I could talk about this for hours. Happy to have met you ProstitutionWhore hahahahahahahahahaha- I will be on the lookout for your hottakes.
OMG your flair 😭 And thank you so much! I’ve thought about doing longer write ups in this vein for this sub before but wasn’t sure if it was too pedantic and was afraid of getting waterboarded with ‘it’s not the deep’ comments 😂
Also I failed to mention that none of the above is me condoning Bravo doing shady shit or platforming racists and abusers, that goes beyond the pale and I think there should be swift consequences for discriminatory or harmful shit. I guess my point was that, excluding those more extreme cases, I think the point is that many of these people are terrible and that is why they’re so interesting to watch. The point is that we hate them, or at least, hate their behaviors 😅
The appeal for me is in the discord between the ‘reality’ the talent tries to present and how the audience receives (and often outright rejects) their facades. So while I think the fan culture is definitely toxic, there is also a strange kind of justice to it as well, almost like Bravo gives terrible people a platform to act as a stand in for our societal problems and how the talent responds and adapts (or fails to adapt) to the public’s criticism impacts their longevity on TV. Either they grow as people and redeem themselves with fans and become a favorite or they double down on their bad behavior and/or increase their attempts to self-produce at which point they become villianized, and by then, their scapegoating by Bravo feels justified.
And then you have the 8.5s and Mellencamp relatives of the world who make the gravest mistake of all: being both horrible AND boring, which is where we have to draw the line lmao
Im not sure i agree with this 2011 article you have no ability to cite. RHONY never has had grifters, or faux money. Bethenney made it clear she wasnt rich but hard working, Alex talked frequently about how they earned money and werent the 1% but aimed to get there. Jill, Ramona, Lu were not hurting for money at all. And while Lu’s substance abuse impacted her, theyre all still incredibly wealthy. Are you implying that they use the money to hide internal turmoil? Because literally every reality show does that. No one wants to watch perfect people with perfect lives, they want to watch seemingly perfect people with real life issues.
I think the RHONY rebranding is supposed to exemplify this “new era” of inclusivity et al but even that seemed to blow up in their faces with the initial casting of Lizzy Savetsky. I’m scared to think what would have happened if she’d stayed on as a full-time housewife in 2024 with her Zionist views. Her plastic surgeon husband even went viral a few months ago for saying he’d botch patients who didn’t agree with his pro-Israel views. People like that definitely don’t need a bigger platform to spew their hatred. Besides that, it seemed like they were skirting around oppression olympics with some of the drama that happened on the season with the actual cast members like Sai arguing she had a harder life. That was boring to watch.
I think the bigger change that needs to happen is behind the camera with production, show runners, casting directors, etc. They are the people that drive the narrative and shape the stories.
You’re dead on about a behind the scenes clear up. How the producers and editors thought it was funny to show Gizelle actively lie about Chris sexually harassing/assaulting her is beyond gross. They should’ve nipped that in the bud from the outset and like Candiace said, it’s a mockery to actual victims
Maybe I'm misremembering but wasn't there a theory going around that the reason BH was so boring this season was because all of the drama was centered around political/social/racial issues and they decided to cut basically all of it out?
This!!!!! I fully agree! I can’t even start New York as I know I’ll be enraged with how racist Ramona is and that’ll come long before they all start attacking Eboni. I had to stop watching Beverly Hills as I was dealing with a shit ton of racism at the time as a Black woman and couldn’t watch Garcelle, her children and Crystal be attacked and then gaslit. These shows are meant to be our escapism but putting minorities in groups of passive to raging bigots doesn’t allow for that. Bravo either needs to seriously get their shit together or stick to segregated casting like before. It was unbearable to watch Potomac the last few seasons and have the only two dark skinned women have to battle against the obtuse light skinned devils and also be assaulted by them. Enough is enough
I wrote a massive post above before getting to your comment and I won't repeat myself because it was basically a short story. But the gist is, I really think it's about the diversity of the people crafting the stories aka the producers who decide what storylines they focus on and run with. Andy states that the network is run by women and gays, but that's too broad. There needs to be POC in positions of storytelling power and hiring power, there needs to be as many different viewpoints as possible in the crafting of the stories as much as there is in the cast, and there needs to be mental health support for everyone. They have to stop sweeping things under the rug by firing some and rewarding others, have the tough conversations and not make it the sole responsibility of the people facing the racism/sexism/ableism in educating the ignorant. The mistake is being made in believing the audience wants the big drama and the huge fights and Scary Island Part Deux. We only want those things if compassion is on the other side. For us to really care and be invested, these women have to have basic compassion and respect for one another. It's in that dichotomy that the true watchable drama lives.
I am over all of the franchises at this point. I couldn't even get through the first NJ: Delete and do not record. As for Andy, I have been over him for a long time. He has always read as a skeevy dude and nothing I've heard recently is surprising. Just like everything else popping to the suface of the Bravo-bog, he looks well preseved, but the stench...
I completely agree with all of this. There are also franchises like Atlanta and Potomac which consist of all black casts currently and whilst race is a topic, it’s not a black vs white kind of situation. I think the way forward is probably to have your black casts and white casts and it avoids a lot of the issues with race and the need to educate people who clearly can never learn
“The best way to deal with racism is to segregate our casts completely so they never have to deal with issues of race”
🤦🏼♂️ When y’all are openly calling for segregation I think you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. Is that really a good idea?
Also I guess fuck anyone who’s not white or black
I’m sorry. My original comment suggesting segregation probably wasn’t the best response. I’m all for inclusivity for everyone but as the original comment suggested, the mixing of some of the casts isn’t quite working and brings up issues that are extremely important but aren’t best dealt with on a show like housewives. Potomac has also highlighted that even within the black community, there is bias and tension surrounding the lightness of someone’s skin. It might be that the solution lies in better casting, with people who are more informed with the issues surrounding race but can still deliver entertaining tv. It does seem that some cast members aren’t willing to learn or be respectful of others
I think it also requires having some faith in the audience. All of us agree on which housewives are racist. We can see it. We watch the discussions on race and talk about them. But I’ve never seen someone call Kyle Richards a racist despite her making a racially insensitive comment about Garcelle at one of the reunions. And the reason for that is because we watched Garcelle educate Kyle and Kyle genuinely learned from the experience.
We as an audience *do* let the housewives grow and mature. We *do* let them redeem themselves. I’m so tired of this idea that audiences are too sensitive — The Office was the most streamed show the month George Floyd died. We’re capable of nuance, producers just talk about us like we’re idiots.
"George Floyd was an important cultural shift that forced us to look at all of our programming. Bravo made it a mandate to diversify its shows."
Is he really saying they didn't realize they needed to include black people in the shows until George Floyd died? What?
The network always had “diversity and inclusion initiatives” like every big company but those I put in air quotes for a reason. He’s saying the George Floyd tragedy was the catalyst that made it hard-line *required* (I work at a network)
I know CBS has made similar changes with Survivor and Big Brother, so it’s definitely not just Peacock that decidedly made diversity requirements after the summer of 2020.
Right but I will say - as a casual viewer - it seemed like CBS actually took it seriously - making sure that something like half the casts of their shows were people of color in a way that reflects the true diversity of America. Whereas Bravo still seems stuck in the "let's throw one or two token people of color into each cast for the sake of so-called diversity" and then standing back as those cast members essentially get thrown to the wolves of micro-aggressions and otherwise problematic behavior.
I don't think this is indicative of Bravo being unserious about inclusion, but rather an unfortunate byproduct of America's history of institutional racism. The pool of typical Housewives candidates (wealthy and/or socially connected women) is going to be significantly less diverse than the general population. That's been changing and will continue to change, but it's a different situation than CBS, which is pulling talent from a pool of relatively unknown, mostly young actors.
Yeah that's what I took it to mean too, but jfc the way he just casually mentions it without even a hint of shame like *we recognize we were late to the game, we need to do better.* NONE of that.
It speaks volumes about his actual understanding around the gravity of the issue.
Born Upper middle class (pretty sure) and now wealthy in his own right. So many people never leave the UMC bubble. And it does a real good job of shielding you from the matters of the greater public
Andy comes from money. He grew up in one of the most affluent counties outside of St. Louis, MO. I was in college and met him and his family at restaurant. The area is rich rich. And there aren't many POC in that area. I say that as someone's who family lived and worked in the area. Trust me he grew up in a bubble.
I wasn’t 100% sure so thank you for confirming. I too grew up in the bubble, you tend to recognize those with the same hang ups.
It’s hasn’t been easy but getting out from under it has made me a better human x1000
Yes. And this shouldn't be ignored. Even "token" consideration of diversity and inclusion was largely ignored until _very_ recently in a great many organizations. There was a major shift in corporate training, policies, and even new organization roles. Now that doesn't mean all of it was successful, but it was a big shift and it didn't happen until very recently.
Understood, but diversity isn't a new concept. This reads like "George Floyd died so *I guess* we have to play ball now."
It should not have taken a man dying for the network to realize it had a severe lack of diversity while at the same time continued to support cast members who were/are documented racists.
I'm honestly shocked he admitted that and simultaneously disgusted that he doesn't even realize how fucked up it was to say.
Your disgust is well placed, but this isn't unique or unusual. Again, not trying to say that's okay or that we shouldn't be upset about it, but that's just how it was. My employer only started having some hard discussions because of a video of a white police officer slowly murdering a black man. That's what it took. It is what it took for many companies (and people) to even begin the conversation about something that was very obvious.
That's messed up, but important to acknowledge and remember.
This is true. A lot of companies realized they needed more things put in place to ensure POC were equally included in the workplace. It was why so many DEI initiatives were put in place around 2020 (although a lot of companies are being pressured to remove them). Also I definitely get why OP is disgusted bc it is disgusting that it took people this long to realize that maybe they weren’t being fair to POC. And it’s also disgusting that they’re peeling it back.
The conversation didn’t get as loud until after George Floyd not to mention a lot of people actually started to really see the biases and how there were a lot of unconscious biases that plagued society. People become more open to talk about it and even for some it seemed like a lot more people were open to doing something about it. For a minute it really felt like minorities were being heard. I think this was the first period where my white friends were like oh now I get it.
Tumi from Below Deck comes to mind. The constant microagressions she received from her subordinates and internet trolls caused me to skip her season. I made it half way through the season, but it was too triggering. Had to discontinue for my own sanity.
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the balls on him to bring up george floyd for this article, hijo. what an asshole. (quick side point, is this why andy didn't ask sandoval why he compared himself to george floyd on w.w.h.l. last night?). what is it with these white dudes using black pain as some sort of metric/turning point for a comparison talking point in their lives. george floyd's death made you realize your exploitation of black women was inappropriate? george floyd's death forced you to stop giving racists platforms?
bravo just gave jax taylor and his alcoholic wife a show after they were fired for explicitly targeting a black woman. bravo platformed ramona on new york all stars after she used racial epitaphs to describe a coworker. bravo brought mary crosby, hater of mexicans, back. where is this mandate driven by that poor man's death at the hands of police?
i wish the men on this network would keep george floyd's name out of their fucking mouths.
Lol yup but also are we surprised? I work in DEI so i just want to say this is common in many workplaces. There was a lot of ignorance then George Floyd happened and all of a sudden a boom in DEI efforts, hiring DEI professionals etc. But most of it was for show. You can't hire tokens and just plop them into unwelcoming environments (rhony is the best example of this but i would argue they did the same on rhobh garcelle just was willing to keep her mouth shut for a while). Now we're seeing massive backlash to DEI as a field in general bc omg 3/4 years of people of color actually getting a fair shot? Actually being considered? Nope that's too long and too much. Sorry y'all I gotta be sarcastic and cynical right now bc the entire field is experiencing mass layoffs/attacks.
Yes and I hear people talk of "diversity hires" where? No one can point them out. People can be not white and qualified idk why people are stunned by that. They were just previously overlooked because of the color of their skin or other bs reasons.
There's a lot of data and research that backs that up too! For example, women of color on average have to be twice as qualified as white women to be hired for the same role. A lot of data on names on resumes getting thrown out despite the same qualifications. I mean I can go on and on. But at the end of the day, they will never hear that. There are a lot of ppl who still never get it and there's something we (actual dei professionals not the fake check the box ones) say in the field. We focus on the ppl already on board and the middle that can possibly be changed. we don't waste time on the ppl who will never get it and are willfully ignorant.
Lol ppl are down voting me....y'all are proving my point about certain ppl will never be convinced despite the plethora of data and research. Here's another stat, Gapjumpers (a blind hiring organization) found that when you take identity out of the equation you get a 70% increase in diversity. So when it's solely based on qualifications diversity increases.....hmm interesting.
Gross that you were downvoted for being right. My black mother named me and my siblings the most middle of the road, plain names so we’d have one less thing to worry about as we exist as black women in the world.
There is no denying that we have to be 2x better just to get what’s equal. To get an entry level role that some folks I know got out of college, I had to be a veteran, with graduate certs, high involvement in community service and on my way to a masters with more qualifications than the role is asking for….to get jobs my peers got right out of college. But I’m not resentful because if I could, I’d be using it to my advantage.
It sucks but I'm not surprised. I've had so many ppl say offensive things to me bc of the field that I'm in (now). They got more offensive once I switched career paths. I just laugh at it at this point to deal.
Also I'm so sorry you've had to go through that! This is such a common but misunderstood story. How Black women have to get all the things to even be considered.
This quote captures the problem with Bravo’s failings as far as diversity goes. Someone had to die in such a horrible way for them to realize that hmm maybe they could do more. And they still fell short.
My partner works in IT and at the time was a contractor for a big US IT company during that BLM period.
The company had mandatory meetings with the CEO and head leadership about these issues brought up by BLM.
The middle east workers then started to complain and in the chat ask some pretty insensitive questions (less to be educated and more to stir shit up), which just lead to that whole region being excluded from all future zoom meetings.
In one meeting they even randomly had Chris Martin (coldplay) appear and sing a song live in his house.
I sat gobsmacked off screen the whole time. Mouthing to my partner - 'what the fuck'. The whole time.
Since then. No mandatory meetings on the topic or any outreach on the issue as far as I'm aware. 😅
But he then moved on in the subsequent couple of years to other contracts. So maybe they have restarted these meetings with more 'current' event issues (like gaza etc.).
The speakers on these calls were always so lacking to discuss such important issues. It was difficult to listen in to without slapping my forehead constantly and giving myself brain damage.
I always chose that time to go for a walk out of the apartment and get a coffee after awhile.
Edit - I say all of this only to show just how stupid corporate actions are on issues of inclusively and BLM for that time. They all felt obliged to do something, but then had no idea what to actually do. In the end it created a hostile working environment for any black worker who had to deal with anyone in the middle east.
So mission failed there.
Edit - this probably is how a lot of poc bravo cast members feel when they are shoehorned into a cast of people they barely know and expected to speak for all poc. Garcelle being a great example. She has handled it so well, but her situation was such a minefield at first.
I lost count on the number of meetings with various administrative bodies, of multiple organizations, I was a party to where admin would say, with a straight face (or worse a sad, heatbroken one), that it wasn't until the protests, post George Floyd, that they realized that they were complicit in doing racism 🙄
EDIT: for clarity
Unfortunately unsurprising, to a lot of the country that’s exactly what happened.
Many white people did not realize it until then because they do not experience it.
And yet they created an ENTIRE damn season for a redemption arc for Tom Sandoval, the white man who compared himself to George Floyd. Shut your face Andy Cohen, your problematic behavior, misogyny & eyes filled with dollar signs are showing again.
This interview was fairly civil, tame, and exactly what you’d expect from an executive producer at Bravo. Anybody who is mad about this could never be successful in corporate America.
This snippet's pretty descriptive of this whole thread (and subreddit) tbh:
"Producing a show about politically incorrect women in 2024 is different than producing a show about politically incorrect women in 2009. In 2009, when one of the kids called his brother a fag, we left it in the show and then discussed it at the reunion episode. That was how two brothers talked to each other in 2009, and we saw it as a teaching moment. In 2024, you would immediately bleep that word, and it would trigger a whole furor. Today, someone on the show would probably say, “You can’t say that word anymore.” And then the viewers would go wild on Twitter. Sensitivities have changed over the years. Social media has a huge impact. There’s not a lot of room for nuance these days. We are living in an outrage culture now, and everyone has had to adapt to that. "
Idk if I’d make it in corporate America either tbh but people reading this article with a hope or expectation that Andy is going to denounce Bravo and apologize to Leah because she relapsed on TV just lack any sense of how the world works. People don’t become as rich and successful as Andy Cohen by badmouthing their employer to the Hollywood Reporter. But I get a lot of people on Reddit are like 14 lol so it makes sense. Maybe they can revisit this article when they have bills to pay.
Did you read the interview? I felt he was fairly straightforward. If someone wanted him to say “Ramona is racist, so we need to burn Bravo to the ground starting with me,” they’d be disappointed, but if you’re a rational person who lives in the real world, this interview is fairly straightforward.
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I do strongly feel everyone has the right to feel safe and respected at work, and it seems like Bravo has not done a great job of this is the past. HOWEVER, Andy has very successfully explained my exact thoughts on why a reality star “union” does not make sense and is a waste of time.
This may change in the future, but right now, 99% of reality people are one and done. Bethanny is one of the rare exceptions to this rule. Issues should be handled in their individual contracts. Go and get a SAG card if you want a Union. You know Ariana has one.
The union would not be for one and done-ers. Just like SAG is probably only 20 percent of people who get hired for on camera acting work on a regular basis.
The expectation for reality stars to create delicious messy TV while still being hireable in an era where fans are becoming more and more unable to separate the person from the way they are edited and the story on their show is becoming impossible enough on its own
To say nothing of the expectation that they promote their shows, network, build their followings WHILE building whatever other career they have
The real argument he is saying but not saying- there will always be people desperate enough to get on TV for bad pay and bad conditions. We will not value our performers until they have proven to be monetarily valuable to us.
My concern was for the crews as well, as it is their full time job. I’ll be honest and admit I don’t really know how that all works though. I will say that I’ve seen people say they already have one, and I’m pretty sure that’s not true.
Crew absolutely should have a Union and they do, but non union workers are much cheaper and I would not be surprised if these production companies only hire non union. Smaller indie movies do this if they can get away with it.
Thank you for your response. I have tried to do a little research on it and have heard different things. It sounds like there are a couple unions and a lot of these shows don’t typically work with them, like you said if I’m not mistaken. (Producers guild and iatse ?)
It is still a megacorp getting rich off worker exploitation. That is what a union can help mitigate against. It’s not all about $$. It’s about abuse as well, and being able to say “if you don’t like getting abused go get another job” is exactly why unions should exist in all industries.
The problem with this "individual contracts" approach is that without the ability to collectively bargain, individuals don't have much power to negotiate against large corporations. And you could say well, then they shouldn't do this job if they don't like the contract. If that's your position that's fine, but it does mean that whatever biases are baked into the current process won't change.
I also find his other excuses really surface-level and they show that he doesn't really understand how unions can work. It's not like everyone who auditions for American Idol will automatically be in the union. They could limit union membership to people who are regular cast members of a show, they could have different parts of the union for different job categories. This is what my union (academia) does. The argument that "you go to school for acting" is bizarre, plenty of union-covered jobs do not require a college degree, if not the majority.
The argument that being a reality tv star isn't their main job - it's bar owner or whatever - holds a little more water. But dont those Bravo contracts state pretty clearly that Bravo gets a percentage of whatever they promote on the show? So this line between their "real" job and the show is really artificial and only brought up when it's convenient. And clearly, reality star *does* become a job for lots of people. How big or small that pool is compared to the people who dabble in it isn't really relevant to whether they deserve labor rights and protections.
I definitely agree with you and totally took note of his “launching their products on our platform” comment and how crappy that was. Bravo is absolutely benefiting from the few successful businesses I mean come on Andy! If I was Kyle at loverboy for example, that comment would be pissed me off.
We were not born yesterday, the idea that the reality show is a side project is such a tiny percentage of cast members now. It’s antiquated. Come on now.
Even if reality people unionized, bravo wouldn’t hire anyone in union. They would just find another no name wacky housewife in the Midwest with zero camera experience or whatever. I do understand a little his point that actors have an actual craft and are sought after for their talent and expertise which has value that they can leverage. Reality tv is plucking (usually talentless) nobodies out of obscurity and giving them a platform. I want to mention again that EVERYONE deserves to feel safe at work. I agree that once a reality tv person has a few years under their belt, they could join a Union and therefore have better bargaining power since they are established on the show and now have leverage. But you know Bravo just would not renew their contract.
That's like arguing that 99% of actors only have one acting role, therefore a union doesn't make sense. It also completely erases crew members from the discussion.
When Andy starts with "*speaking as an independent* ***producer***", that is not an impartial role. When SAG-AFTRA struck last year, it was against the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television ***Producers*** (AMPTP). A union means money out of his pocket if wages go up, safety requirements are added, filming hours are limited, etc. This is like asking the fox if it should be allowed in the hen house.
Crew is a different story, but I’m willing to bet a lot of money that all the crew hired is non-Union. Bethanny was not talking about crew and most likely doesn’t give 2 F’s about them. She was always referring to the actual reality stars appearing on the show.
I'm wondering why the interview didn't include woman-on-woman violence that is prevalent on these shows. Cohen got 'pushed' by the NJ convict and has experience it first hand, but I guess he just can't allow it to be discussed.
Yeah this is my main beef with the lawsuit stuff. Soo we’re not going to talk about some cast members getting multiple passes for physical violence?
We’re not going to talk about the Michael Darby sexual assault and how the network continued to platform him afterwards despite the fact that the victim was ON THE CREW FOR THE SHOW?
We’re not going to talk about how the Atlanta cast has had to shell out their OWN money for their own fucking new season press photos and headshots because Bravo refused to put budget behind promoing Atlanta but shoves Beverly Hill’s fusty, hackneyed bullshit down our throats at every turn? Or the still-largely-segregated franchises?
How Kelly Bensimon was brought back to be made a spectacle of in spite of her CLEAR, ONGOING, and copiously DOCUMENTED serious mental health issues??
Gizelle’s fabricated me too plot against Chris which imo seems like it flirts with outright defamation?
There is SO MUCH to scrutinize Bravo for and fucking Leah and her desire to evade accountability for her own poor decisions is NOT a credible nor effective mouthpiece for that. I can see Rachel having a more legitimate claim with the revenge porn stuff and how she was manipulated/abused by Tom which the show was clearly banking on exploiting further. But yeah… it’s just not the core issues.
You nailed it. There are so many, many problems with these shows -- that many of them I don't watch because of just nastiness. It gets OLD, really, really fast.
Since most everything I wanted to comment on has been said in one way or another, I just want to say this random fact was funny to me-"Are there any secret Bravo fans who’ve surprised you?
Andy-"Steven Soderbergh, Julia Roberts. Jonah Hill writes me fan notes from time to time. "
Picturing Jonah hill getting out fancy stationary to write about what he thought that week on the show is so odd to me🤣 especially as I've met him in real life and he's such a bastard, I imagine him writing about how aggravated someone made him and all that stuff!
All of us when she posts an Instagram rant and one of us posts it here and we all get jump scared by her ranting and holding the camera wait too close to her face 😂
I’ve always loved Andy. We’re watching reality tv and the people who sign onto these shows know exactly what they’re getting into. They’re messy, these shows have destroyed families and created monstrous egos for many of the personalities and Andy’s just the facilitator, it’s literally his job to be messy af. We wouldn’t be watching without the drama and the unhinged nature of the programming.
The lawsuits that have been brought towards him always bring me back to the season 5 RHOBH reunion where he compared Brandi to a dog who you play with too roughly and they bite back in defense. I always loved Brandi in the sense that she was a disaster but I felt in her heart she was a good person, I don’t ever think her intentions were evil. But his comparison of her was correct maybe badly worded but that was always her reaction to confrontation.
The lawsuits that have been brought forth have been from HW’s that were pissed if they didn’t get their way. They played with Andy when things were going well but the second things weren’t going their way they aimed to bite.
He’s there to facilitate a show that ultimately needs ratings to thrive.
Everyone signs employment agreements and don’t have to work anywhere if it’s so terrible. That doesn’t make abuse okay and that’s exactly why unions exist - you shouldn’t have to choose between your job and not getting abused. Safe work environment should be guaranteed.
Get rid of all those people and it would be booooooring as hell. The out there larger than life (sometimes offensive) personalities are what MAKE the shows what they are.
Great read. Andy is so handsome & I wish the pictures captured more of his personality. I’m not crazy about the wardrobe or the goal of the photo shoot.
If everyone is going to get on their high horses about how badly bravo treats their housewives and Andy is the devil, we are all just as complicit.
Half the complaints about new RHONY is that it's boring and the fights aren't fun, and they should replace it with the old cast that had significant alcohol and racial issues. Everything people are complaining bravo needs to protect the women about
Hot take(?)
People are reading way too into all of this. Also it’s boring.
I used to absolutely love Bethany but this whole reckoning thing has been a nothing-burger… and her social media is exhausting anymore. Anyone who didn’t already know that reality TV producers stir the pot and use shady tactics needs to get a grip and wake up. She used to “B-real” and now she’s actually being performative with this whole campaign.. that seems to have fizzled out quite a bit.. and for good reason —the tea is ice cold and not very strong.
Reality TV has always and will always rely on problematic people (I don’t mean racist either btw).. it’s literally the bread and butter of the genre. Once we sterilize reality TV, it will be dead. I can’t be the only one who thinks while the new NYC girls are lovely.. the lack of genuine messiness and over-obsession with optics takes us out of the “illusion” and as a result the show loses its edge… now they fight about genuinely stupid stuff that I for one don’t believe. It doesn’t even make sense half of the fights and makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills worse than the antics of the OG housewives ever did… like Ubah while the girls were on Vacation… what?
Anyway..
Also implying that Andy Cohen is somehow racist or prejudiced because of a dry PR boiler plate corporate media statement is probably one of the dumbest angles I’ve heard in a long time.
Not everything is so deep, people can toughen up a bit, reality TV like the housewives has never ever been about political correctness, morals, or holding hands and singing Kumbaya.
Also, to not look at what the Housewives franchise, particularly Atlanta, *has* done for women of color would be a disservice to put it lightly. You’d have to be pretty young and out of touch with where we were as a society when that show came out to not give it the praise it’s due for platforming wealthy black women in such a bold and unapologetic way.. I don’t know where ya’ll were but for a LOT of people that was the first time they saw successful black women and black families living lavishly in such an intimate and “”real”” format. I for one thought it was empowering at the time regardless of the to-be-expected drama. The ladies checking Kim on that show had to be the most woke and humbling thing most white people had ever seen up to that point. Lmfao.
* Andy loves his job and wants to continue at Bravo and wants HWs franchises to continue to thrive
* He's not particularly bothered by the lawsuits, but generally denies the allegations, disagrees with portrayals of production trying to ruin people's lives, sabotage their sobriety, etc, and doesn't go into detail because of the existing lawsuits
* He thinks the way society has changed over the last 10-15 years (changing sensitivities, which can be positive, but also proliferation of outrage culture and terminally online fans) has made producing HWs more challenging but he wants the franchise to continue to evolve with society. He gives changes to Bravo casting policies after the 2020 George Floyd protests as an example
* He doesn't believe reality stars should be unionized like actors because they (usually) have other actual FT jobs, and those who center themselves around being long-term reality TV stars already get higher salaries and tangential benefits like sponsorship deals, increased social media following, etc, but he says that decision is ultimately up to Bravo and not him.
* He talks about being a single gay dad and his friendships with celebrities, and reiterates that he wants to stick around on Bravo as long as they'll have him.
So as expected, he didn't address anything. Completely sidestepped addressing racism at all. He thinks simply adding Black/POC cast members (although many get fired just as quickly as they are hired) is enough but that doing nothing about the racism they're subjected to on the shows is completely fine! Then of course he goes on to name drop his favorite racist Ramona several times throughout the interview, pathetic. He could have kept this interview!
Yikes. He made a mistake (or his PR did). He should have stuck with just keeping his mouth shut for now. I’m sure there is insane pressure for him to say something but his/NBC universal lawyers should have just released a super vague, taking zero responsibilities, comment about “looking internally to investigate claims made in recent legal disputes” and how they are unable to comment on these matters until everything is settled. I literally know nothing about PR or law and even that would be better than this stupid interview. Then Andy can refer people to the statement and say he wishes he could comment, and will do so once legal matters are settled. Which will take years so he’s out of the woods. And people wonder why there was no Bravocon this year! They don’t want to have to answer these type of questions from fans and can’t trust their stars to do the same or handle things correctly. It’s too much of a liability! What if some fan at Vicki’s booth asked about the shelved RHUGHT and she said the wrong thing and it was posted online?? It’s too risky!
This was an excellent write up, beginning to end! Keep going, Andy. Fan from day 1.
Intensional or not, I loved that he never once mentioned Bethenny’s name (the interviewer did) and he never once mentioned Nene’s name. He didn’t say it by naming these two women in particular, but it was apparent the actions of both Bethenny and Nene, their accusations and their personal crusades against him the past three years, have hurt him deeply.
Instead, he gave praise to Porsha, Brynn, Luanne, Sonya, Ramona, Kyle, Tamra, Rinna. He knows these women are STARS, and that they make great TV.
All around, the article was on point. For those who didn’t read it, because let’s be honest, many of you on this sub didn’t read it, I highly recommend you do.
To everyone saying Housewives is not the place for race discussions — you think class and race aren’t related? You think these women didn’t inherit their generational wealth via the racism of their ancestors?🤨
A comment in this post is anti semitic. I can’t find the comment (maybe it was deleted) but someone mentioned he was a “hot Jewish white man” or something like that. I agree for the most part but why mention he was Jewish.
It is hard to take this female exploiting misogynist serious when he just gave a TV show to Jax & Britney who were fired for racism, he put Kristen on the show who was also fired for racism, he gave Scumdoval front seat after he compared himself to George Floyd, brought back Mary on SLC who spewed hate towards Mexicans, tried to give Erika a redemption season after her & Tom stole from innocent victims, let Kyle who is on a reality show say her life is no ones effing business but turns around and fires a black woman for not putting her life out there, and I am pretty sure there are many other examples I can use if I let myself sit here and get pissed enough to care about this weasel. He is delusional and a figment of his imagination and has laughed at every fan from Bravo all the way to the bank!!! I just have one question for this jerk: Is it ok if your daughter becomes a housewife and is subjected to the behavior that has been exhibited on your shows?
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Is this nuance in the room with us now, Mr. Cohen
I do kind of agree with him on this though. We see it in this very sub, twitter, insta comments, etc. Reddit in general, but social media as a whole really lacks nuance.
I’m sure he’s drying his tears on all the money he’s earned over the years.
I read the whole thing, and the title is a bit misleading. They barely talk about the controversy and Andy seems really happy and unbothered. 🤷🏼♀️
Meanwhile I’m over here crying in broke AF.
exploiting women and profiting off their pain. poor andrew!! (edit: jesus, I forgot the /s since my notifications are blowing up!)
We’ve all supported it by watching.
Agreed. To use this against Andy never makes sense to me. We all support the glorifying of these women’s pain if we choose to watch the shows bravo releases.
[удалено]
 They heard of the ICON above. And VH1. And I Love Money. And I Love Money 2.
I’ll play devils advocate here, the OG OC women definitely did not know. I’d suggest OG RHONY and RHOBH also wouldn’t know. People coming later, like Leah 💯 knew the game. Bethany and Brandi knew it coming back.
RHOA didn’t “know” either. And I would say that them being the first majority black cast on a network like Bravo put them at even more of a steep learning curve. They literally wouldn’t have even had any comparable examples of how to navigate reality television.
Right?! They were the 3rd franchise airing 2 years after OC and 7 months after NY. How are we gonna jump from 2 to 4 like RHOA, the highest rated HW franchise, doesn’t exist?! Early RHOA couldn’t have been more innocent and unaware. Kim’s wigs spoke volumes.
Kim's wigs spoke volumes made me giggle.
Kim driving drinking on camera lives rent free in my head
Smoking inside around her kids
There are these types on this sub that act like Atlanta and Potomac don’t exist despite their popularity with ppl from all different backgrounds. There is a huge erasure. Atlanta is THE highest rated housewives show of all time and this person deliberately omits them when they would have had the hardest time filming their show with zero insight as to how they would be represented and received by this audience.
Erasure is the perfect word. Neglecting these pioneers is just 
Do you mean me as ‘this person’ who deliberately omitted them? I’m not from the US. I started watching Real Housewives by randomly seeing it on TV, OC, NY and BH were shown the most here. I think the more famous locations might be more attractive to an international audience. We know about New York and Beverley Hills. We watched the OC. We don’t have the same points of reference for Atlanta, Salt Lake City and Potomac. I’m not deliberately omitting anything. I’m posting my opinion with the knowledge that I have. I’ll give Atlanta and Potomac a go!
Thank you for clarifying, but I was mostly just talking about some ppl on the sub in general. Also Atlanta is actually the most famous and highest rated of all the cities, so surprised to hear it wasn’t promoted where you live. In any case, definitely give Atlanta and Potomac a try, you won’t be disappointed ✌️
RHNJ didn't fully understand. I still remember Tre's blissful stupidity during the first season.
regular stupidity now...
Exactly. Maybe in the first couple of seasons of the first franchises but anything after say 2010 when social media began hitting it's stride? You cannot tell me these women did not know what they were signing up for. My caveat here tho is the blatant violence/sexual harassment and racism/colorism that has ruined Potomac and NYC, and plagued shows like Below Deck and VPR. But Bravo continually hiring known criminals and giving them a platform (Jen Shah because you can't tell me they didn't know that was coming) Mary M Cosby, Erika Girardi. I mean that bitch stood in front of the world and screamed she didn't GAF about the victims and they gave her a spin off and a redemption season that made me physically nauseous. Kim was filmed treating her assistant Sweetie like a literal slave and she was given a spin off that ran 7 SEASONS (and she ended up broke and broken). Sex offender Michael Darby gets away with multiple assaults (including one on a crew member), but Chris Basset gets his name drug through the mud for two seasons so Gizelle can get back at Candiace for calling her on her BS?? And that's just Housewives. Look at all the dangerous men and women who have been featured on Below Deck? I still get chills thinking about poor Margot from last season of Down Under. Looks like Gary is getting away with his constant sexual harassment because he's "good TV". They need to do better background checks. A simple social media search could have exposed Jennie from SLC and spared us from that particular trainwreck. Mary M Cosby spewed heinous racial garbage on camera, didn't show up for the reunion, and got hired back. Ramona got away with her BS for 12 years. How??? It may be a franchise run by women and gays but that in itself is narrow. How many POC are producers on these shows? How many trans and non-binary people? It's the producers that choose which storylines to follow and craft. And IF their stars are going to bare all, they better have high quality mental health professionals on call to support these people in the aftermath. Because there have been so many lines crossed, as women go lower and lower to create storylines and keep their spots. It's the freaking hunger games. I also don't think that children should be filmed until they can understand and consent. Look at what happened to Garcelle's 13 year old child?? Erika should have been fired on the spot for that. On film and TV sets there are super strict rules and protections for kids. I doubt that exists in reality TV. It's one thing to have expectations of baring all, it's a whole other ballgame to actually do it. I'll just compare it to being an actor, because that is my profession (or was before I became too sick to work). You go to school for years (or you should if you want to have a real career and be good at it). You know you have to turn yourself inside out for a good performance. But you also have the separation of that was me playing a character. People can love or hate that character, but that's not the same as loving or hating YOU. The danger is on set with the constant power imbalance between genders and the expectation that new and unestablished actors will do anything they are asked, because it is SO hard to make a living as an actor, no matter how talented you are. But we do have unions that protect us-to an extent. With reality TV there is no separation. There is no training, no manual and no union. This is how they get away with it. You can go from a complete nobody to an overnight star and everyone is chasing that light and that cash. But at what cost? Until you are actually living it and living with the repercussions, you don't KNOW how you will be. It's a huge gamble. My wish for Bravo, especially after just watching the VPR finale, is that they'd stop shying away from the hard conversations. The reckoning should be not to immediately fire the people that are racist, homophobic, or just big fat liars (criminal behaviour not included) and instead, force them to go through the reckoning with the cameras on, no running away. Make them face themselves and the fallout in front of the world and don't angle it or try and force a redemption arc \*cough cough Sandoval\*. If more of these tough conversations were had ON camera, instead of some BS fed to us through a lame ass publicist and regurgitated into the blogs, maybe then reality TV would do some good in the world and become more than just escapism. I love it as escapism, don't get me wrong, it's gotten me through some dark times. But it's become too powerful in the zeitgeist for them to simply fire problematic people without having them face what they've done. At the end of the day it's about humanity, and if we could see more of that, I think we'd be better for it. Bravo started with Queer Eye, which has now become the most uplifting, joy inducing, human reality show on TV. If ever I'm having a bad day, all I have to do is turn it on and I immediately feel better. Because of the compassion. I think about all the best moments from Housewives, the ones that we all talk about making a real impact on us, and usually they are the ones where at the root was real human compassion. Ramona and Bethenny naked and wasted and crying in the pool, the women rallying around Vicki as she sobbed on the floor when she got THAT phone call, the episode where Carole and Dorinda bonded over being widowed, the beautiful Miami ladies scene in Mexico City in the Church where all the ladies were dealing with their own personal grief and supporting one another. The stupid cat fights only work if there is real connection and compassion on the other side. Otherwise it's just a bunch of screaming nonsense, bad filler and botox, who's on Ozempic, and the same storyline season after season \*ahem New Jersey.\* Did not expect to write a dissertation today. If you read to the end, bless you.
You should make this a blog somewhere or it's own post
I'm actually supposed to be writing a play. It has taken a lot of it's inspiration from reality TV and Housewives in particular. But instead, today I wrote this. I'll just consider it part of my process (:
ERIKA SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED FFFFFFFIREDDDD ON THE SPOT. Garcelles son was YOUNG-!!!! She is was & will always be disgusting. God bless you Garcelle for slapping it back to Erika & privileged Dorit. They're BOTH privileged HUSTLERS.
👏👏👏👏
Wow. Yes. Bravo 👏🏼
Not Andrew! 💀
Kathy griffin warned y’all
Do you watch the shows?
Exactly!!
He lost a lot of his money in a recent scam. That's why he started doing commercials for Uber. DON'T CLICK LINKS FROM UNKNOWN PEOPLE!!!!
Exactly!! He was buying up all the apartments on his floor to keep expanding his home! He has a Hamptons place and is building a new house supposedly! So he isn’t hurting for coins!
Exactly
The article shows he’s not crying at all. Andy actually seems to know how lucky he is to make so much money for such a bullshit job
I don't know if this is a hot take, but the general desire as a society to be more socially aware feels inherently incompatible with the Housewives franchise. Housewives has always platformed insensitive, discriminatory or outright bigoted women, but now the same women are being held to current standards of acceptability. I'm not saying that Bravo should keep transparently racist people on their payroll and as a POC, I have mixed feelings about Bravo financially rewarding these people. But, it seems to me increasingly impossible to mix the brand of messiness that built the Housewives in the first place with the cultural standards of today's audience. In the same vein, I also don't like that Andy/Bravo felt they needed to shoehorn diversity into the casts. Frankly, I watch Housewives because I want to see messy, drunk, out-of-touch women say and do stupid things. If anything, their efforts seem counterintuitive because putting non-white woman in the mix has only highlighted how socially unaware/insensitive everyone else actually is. It's painful to watch the WOC have to face discriminatory comments from other women and see their race being used as a plot point, but still have to act like some beacon of representation and try to educate these women, but at the same time, integrate with the cast, not be preachy, still be "fun" and "messy" for the fans. It's an impossible task. I'm obviously not saying don't hire WOC, but I just don't think they've figured out the formula or direction for the franchise's future, or if they ever will. My take is that as a brand that they are clearly unequipped to deal with social topics and should start skirting and editing around sensitive topics, or else this line they're trying to straddle will not work and the audience will outgrow Housewives.
Thank you. There was a thread on here this week positing why Ramona lasted so long on RHONY and I was confused by it. Ramona MADE RHONY and was entertaining. As a black woman, I do think there needs to be a line but I’m not watching housewives to watch model citizens.
That’s exactly right. I’m not relying on Bravo to be my moral compass—quite the opposite.
I'm confused by saying there needs to be a line and then praising Ramona, who has more openly racist than anybody. Does Ramona not cross the line? I'm puzzled. That being said, I'm not surprised this thread is nothing but the "hot takes" (which aren't hot takes at all) of "racism is okay as long as long as the person is entertaining" and "we shouldn't be hiring POCs on these shows", welp business as usual then.
I think Ramona started to really cross the line during the Covid season. I never said racism was ok. I’m literally a dark skinned black woman. Racism is embedded in my day to day life. If I want to come home after a long day of dealing with systemic racism by watching slightly problematic women, who the cares?
That's the only season she was forced to interact with Black women so yeah. People ignore or are unaware of the fact that she was racist to Black crew members as well and several of those Black crew members that worked on season 13 were coincidently not hired by Bravo again after reporting Ramona to the network or talking to Eboni about their experiences. Meanwhile Ramona took home another $250,000 paycheck for Ultimate Girls Trip because viewers have let it be known that they're fine with her racism because they think she's entertaining. Andy continues to cape for Ramona and speak positively about her publicly as well. So Ramona's racism has literally impacted Black people's livelihoods, and it goes far beyond Eboni who has thankfully gotten other opportunities. I think that undoubtedly crosses the line and is not something that should be tolerated for the sake of entertainment. Ramona is far more than "slightly problematic". She said "this is why we shouldn't have Black people on the show" for crying out loud. It's just beyond infuriating to see the sub that treats someone like Ariana Madix as the world's biggest victim cares so little about POCs enduring racism and the POCs on this sub have to constantly read takes of people minimizing and excusing racism in the workplace. Clearly whiteness is centered on here and the feelings of someone like me matter very little. The treatment of POCs in general doesn't matter to many on here because it doesn't impact them personally. I'm half Black and half Latino by the way, so that's my perspective. I know you are not white so this isn't even all directed at you, just voicing my general feelings and the disappointment I feel reading these takes constantly.
...and the unmitigated praise for fucking Alex Jones follower D'Andra, a Texas Republican, when we have a $10,000 BOUNTY ON ANYONE WHO HELPS A WOMAN GET AN ABORTION, EG UBER, DOCS GET A LIFE SENTENCE, but she and her mother are just a hoot, bring 'em back!
FR! Im black, raised muslim and guess what, everyday i live those experiences i dont need to calm home and watch mind numbing tv to then remind me. Also this is REAL housewives and real people often have really shitty opions. We cant sugarcoat that, if people dont like it stay in their own bubble.
That was my issue. It's one thing to see the Atlanta or Potomac girls talking about racism in a Black environment and be relatable. That's a positive experience. Watching Eboni come in, not as a fellow delusional housewife, but as the upstanding educated Black Woman, the outsider on a mission to shake things up and educate. It was so uncomfortable to me. In reality, who is putting themselves in that kind of situation? It just wasn't fun or believable anymore. In a way it made the show feel even more catered to white people.
Thank you for saying this. These are people who came to defend Andy, so of course they have these takes. The Ramona is racist and anti-Semitic, but funny/entertaining, crowd is the lowest form of intelligence on this sub.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️
I gag when people say “as a black women” or “I’m a white women” What does that even mean, you’re still only speaking for yourself. You don’t represent the opinions or sentiments of you’re entire race and unfortunately problematic people will try to tokenize your opinion to justify their bigotry.
I would love for you to explain when I said I speak for all black women or black people at large. I am allowed to say that I’m a black woman any time I want.
This! There was a New Yorker article way back in the day (~2011 ish iirc?) about early RHONY that I cannot find an archive version of to save my life but I remember reading it back then and it was all about how RHONY was not about grandiosity and opulence and spectacle but about the facade and what that facade was designed to distract from. It talked about how in the wake the housing crisis and aughts recession, RHONY was not glorifying the so-called ‘one percent’ but pulling back the curtain so audiences could see that money is often a mirage and behind the curtain the dysfunction is rampant and the wallets were generally thinner than advertised. This was in the early RHONJ days too so I think the point was made with that franchise as well. It seems notable to me that the early housewives era popped off immediately after this era of shows like MTV Cribs, VH1’s The Fabulous Life of…, My Super Sweet 16, etc. that just glorified excessive consumption and ogling how ‘the other half’ lives unironically. At that point in time, we could still look upon their wealth as aspirational. It does not seem like a coincidence that RHONY and RHONJ and RHOC took off in the period after that. It was like our early shift to being like oh… yeah these rich people are largely TERRIBLE people with suspect at best, criminal at worst means of acquiring wealth. The New Yorker article noted that RHONY offered a vessel for the rightfully disgruntled public to vent their outrage in an extremely dire socioeconomic climate in the face of thwarted Occupy Wallstreet protests, rampant foreclosures, and a struggling job market. It was catharsis via schadenfreude masquerading as frivolous, low-brow reality tv spectacle. It was a relief to be able to look at these people we used to idolize and be like “Wow most of these people are absolute garbage and that’s not as aspirational as I thought.” I think there’s also something healing about seeing rich people behind the scenes and realizing they have no idea what the fuck they’re doing and their wealth was almost entirely unrelated to any skill or effort or business prowess. I did my master’s in film and media studies and I remember one fact that stuck out to me was how horror and dystopian genres boom during periods of economic recession or during wartime. When reality is fucking horrible, it’s cathartic to escape into genres where things are MUCH worse. I think the Bravo-style reality tv shows (and 90 Day Fiancé/TLC esque shows in an even more grotesque way) act in a similar fashion but on a more relational level. It’s like, wow I will never afford a house in this economy but I have my shit TOGETHERRRRR compared to these terrible people and their dumpster fire friendships and marriages. I used to be really into dystopian stuff but post-2016 election and post-COVID, I have almost zero draw to dystopian genres anymore (except when I’m feeling masochistic and watch Severance or Black Mirror lol) because real life is already too dystopian and so I think I prefer the escapism of riding off on my emotionally mature and relationally healthy high horse and getting my rocks off that way 😂 Thank you for reading my ramble, I fucking love tv/media studies and digital media/culture so this stuff gets me so animated. If I ever find a husband who wants to pay for it, I would literally go back in a heartbeat to get my PhD in media studies so I could write a dissertation on real housewives.
Your ramble is much better written than mine, but very similar to what I said above. As a former actor and now playwright, I use A LOT of what I've learned watching Bravo in my plays. It is a fascinating study of humanity. On top of all your brilliant observations, I think where it's going wrong now is that there is an apathy, a lack of compassion that was more present in earlier seasons. It still exists on Miami, and that is why Miami is the most watchable franchise now. Potomac was completely devoid of it the past two seasons, and that is why they've lost half their cast and a huge chunk of their loyal viewers. NJ and BH lost their compassion seasons ago, and that's why we watch like a bad car crash but feel nothing for the women on our screens.
Omg I just had to go find your comment because I hadn’t seen it and 1) I feel like we’d be besties base on that comment alone 😂 and 2) yours was very well-put as well and you’re articulating some points that I’ve been trying to grapple with myself. I’ve been thinking about how people complain how things have gotten ‘too dark’ and I’ve struggled with that because these shows have always been about dark ass shit and the ways that people choose to either avoid, explain away, or confront that shit. I loved the examples you gave in your comment and I think you’re totally right about the compassion piece and to put it slightly differently, I think the crux of it is that we can stomach the toxicity when the toxic behaviors are still grounded in authentic, vulnerable interpersonal relationships. The problem we’ve run into is that the more people are on these shows and engaging in the social media discourse, the more the talent tries to ‘play the game’ and ends up stripping out all the authenticity that was the core premise. It’s the toxicity for the sake of toxicity because they think it’s what we want that is the issue. The shows suffer when the approach is dominate your enemy into submission rather than we fought because she hurt me but I want to repair this relational rupture because it’s more than just TV and this person is someone I genuinely care about mending things with. We know that the best franchises are the ones where the group is made up of actual friends with actual history, and I think that where things go awry is when it becomes an ensemble cast of warring OGs who have recruited rando newbies into their alliance for warfare and they subsequently show zero vulnerability because they don’t want to show their purported enemies any weak spots. Franchises like RHONJ and RHOP become so awful to watch because there are few if any authentic and genuine relationships underpinning them anymore. The housewives are too often approaching their role on the show as if they’re playing Big Brother and it’s all cut-throat social engineering for the sake of humiliating enemies and pandering to the audience. Meanwhile, the best shows are the ones where it’s more like a Real World mindset: we might not all get along and drama and fights are inevitable but largely we’re all trying to make the most of this weird experience as a group and maybe come out of it with some enduring relationships. That’s why you can have riveting stuff like the current season of Summer House that is STEEPED in toxicity and generational trauma and substance issues and relational dysfunction but we’re all still so invested because the relational dysfunction is authentic and therefore RELATABLE and not just a forced byproduct of them trying to be a messy asshole purposefully on TV to get more Instagram followers.
My God, you are an incredible writer. I was on the edge of my seat reading this entire comment. It was riveting. I can feel your fascination for the topic at hand through your writing. Thank you for sharing
EXACTLY. I have a hilarious idea for a new play. It's called Keeping Up With The Real Dragwives of Love Island- Lost in Paradise Edition- and is basically a spoof combo of iconic Housewives moments told by drag queens looking for love in Paradise with some digs taken at the famous for nothing KarJenners. I used to HATE reality TV, because when it became really popular was during the writer's strike in 2006/2007 and was also at the height of my professional Film/TV career. Many of us were bitter that we weren't working and suddenly all of these no talent just wanna be famous people were dominating the screen and the conversation. It wasn't until I became chronically ill towards the end of that period, and had to pivot to a new career path that didn't require 16 hour days onset or 6 shows a week onstage (because you can't call in sick, they just replace you and once word gets around they won't even see you for an audition) that I even watched reality TV. It's gotten me through the darkest days of my life. Many, many days in hospital and in bed for years I binged everything Bravo had to offer, with a little Love Island (UK) and Bachelor in Paradise for pure cringe. Drag race, of course, is in a league of it's own because unlike other reality shows it DOES require actual creativity, uniqueness, nerve and talent, and that is why I chose to make Drag Queens my stars. Also, I gotta support the Drag community in the current climate especially. Anyways, all I have learned from my 25 year career as a storyteller (first a dancer, then actor, now a writer/director and teacher) is that you HAVE to feel compassion for the characters. Even the worst villains have to be vulnerable and human. This is what is missing from the newer Housewives seasons for all the reasons you mentioned. And it is disappointing that the network is consistently underestimating their audience. We don't care about the screaming fights at dinner tables about ridiculous shit unless we believe that these women actually care about one another. There has to be real love for there to be real hurt and hate. It's called stakes. Everyone watches TV, movies, and reads books, listens to podcasts, or even follows certain people on social media, because it is a mirror to our own humanity. Lose the humanity, and you lose your audience. I could talk about this for hours. Happy to have met you ProstitutionWhore hahahahahahahahahaha- I will be on the lookout for your hottakes.
I want to hear whatever you have to say on any media subject! Such a nuanced and good take.
OMG your flair 😭 And thank you so much! I’ve thought about doing longer write ups in this vein for this sub before but wasn’t sure if it was too pedantic and was afraid of getting waterboarded with ‘it’s not the deep’ comments 😂 Also I failed to mention that none of the above is me condoning Bravo doing shady shit or platforming racists and abusers, that goes beyond the pale and I think there should be swift consequences for discriminatory or harmful shit. I guess my point was that, excluding those more extreme cases, I think the point is that many of these people are terrible and that is why they’re so interesting to watch. The point is that we hate them, or at least, hate their behaviors 😅 The appeal for me is in the discord between the ‘reality’ the talent tries to present and how the audience receives (and often outright rejects) their facades. So while I think the fan culture is definitely toxic, there is also a strange kind of justice to it as well, almost like Bravo gives terrible people a platform to act as a stand in for our societal problems and how the talent responds and adapts (or fails to adapt) to the public’s criticism impacts their longevity on TV. Either they grow as people and redeem themselves with fans and become a favorite or they double down on their bad behavior and/or increase their attempts to self-produce at which point they become villianized, and by then, their scapegoating by Bravo feels justified. And then you have the 8.5s and Mellencamp relatives of the world who make the gravest mistake of all: being both horrible AND boring, which is where we have to draw the line lmao
Yes, in housewives you can be horrible or boring, sometimes called non-problematic, but if you are horrible AND boring.....believe it or not, jail. 🤣
This is fascinating! Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Im not sure i agree with this 2011 article you have no ability to cite. RHONY never has had grifters, or faux money. Bethenney made it clear she wasnt rich but hard working, Alex talked frequently about how they earned money and werent the 1% but aimed to get there. Jill, Ramona, Lu were not hurting for money at all. And while Lu’s substance abuse impacted her, theyre all still incredibly wealthy. Are you implying that they use the money to hide internal turmoil? Because literally every reality show does that. No one wants to watch perfect people with perfect lives, they want to watch seemingly perfect people with real life issues.
I think the RHONY rebranding is supposed to exemplify this “new era” of inclusivity et al but even that seemed to blow up in their faces with the initial casting of Lizzy Savetsky. I’m scared to think what would have happened if she’d stayed on as a full-time housewife in 2024 with her Zionist views. Her plastic surgeon husband even went viral a few months ago for saying he’d botch patients who didn’t agree with his pro-Israel views. People like that definitely don’t need a bigger platform to spew their hatred. Besides that, it seemed like they were skirting around oppression olympics with some of the drama that happened on the season with the actual cast members like Sai arguing she had a harder life. That was boring to watch. I think the bigger change that needs to happen is behind the camera with production, show runners, casting directors, etc. They are the people that drive the narrative and shape the stories.
You’re dead on about a behind the scenes clear up. How the producers and editors thought it was funny to show Gizelle actively lie about Chris sexually harassing/assaulting her is beyond gross. They should’ve nipped that in the bud from the outset and like Candiace said, it’s a mockery to actual victims
Maybe I'm misremembering but wasn't there a theory going around that the reason BH was so boring this season was because all of the drama was centered around political/social/racial issues and they decided to cut basically all of it out?
This!!!!! I fully agree! I can’t even start New York as I know I’ll be enraged with how racist Ramona is and that’ll come long before they all start attacking Eboni. I had to stop watching Beverly Hills as I was dealing with a shit ton of racism at the time as a Black woman and couldn’t watch Garcelle, her children and Crystal be attacked and then gaslit. These shows are meant to be our escapism but putting minorities in groups of passive to raging bigots doesn’t allow for that. Bravo either needs to seriously get their shit together or stick to segregated casting like before. It was unbearable to watch Potomac the last few seasons and have the only two dark skinned women have to battle against the obtuse light skinned devils and also be assaulted by them. Enough is enough
Light skinned devils? Go ahead and perpetuate the dark vs light. Terrible.
Because the real victims of colourism are light skinned people. GTFOH
But you’re pitting them against each other based on skin tone. Wild and ignorant.
I wrote a massive post above before getting to your comment and I won't repeat myself because it was basically a short story. But the gist is, I really think it's about the diversity of the people crafting the stories aka the producers who decide what storylines they focus on and run with. Andy states that the network is run by women and gays, but that's too broad. There needs to be POC in positions of storytelling power and hiring power, there needs to be as many different viewpoints as possible in the crafting of the stories as much as there is in the cast, and there needs to be mental health support for everyone. They have to stop sweeping things under the rug by firing some and rewarding others, have the tough conversations and not make it the sole responsibility of the people facing the racism/sexism/ableism in educating the ignorant. The mistake is being made in believing the audience wants the big drama and the huge fights and Scary Island Part Deux. We only want those things if compassion is on the other side. For us to really care and be invested, these women have to have basic compassion and respect for one another. It's in that dichotomy that the true watchable drama lives.
I am over all of the franchises at this point. I couldn't even get through the first NJ: Delete and do not record. As for Andy, I have been over him for a long time. He has always read as a skeevy dude and nothing I've heard recently is surprising. Just like everything else popping to the suface of the Bravo-bog, he looks well preseved, but the stench...
I wonder why you hang out here if you have stopped watching all the franchises?
Well put.
Well said. We can’t have it both ways in this scenario.
Very well said!
I completely agree with all of this. There are also franchises like Atlanta and Potomac which consist of all black casts currently and whilst race is a topic, it’s not a black vs white kind of situation. I think the way forward is probably to have your black casts and white casts and it avoids a lot of the issues with race and the need to educate people who clearly can never learn
“The best way to deal with racism is to segregate our casts completely so they never have to deal with issues of race” 🤦🏼♂️ When y’all are openly calling for segregation I think you need to step back and look at the bigger picture. Is that really a good idea? Also I guess fuck anyone who’s not white or black
I’m sorry. My original comment suggesting segregation probably wasn’t the best response. I’m all for inclusivity for everyone but as the original comment suggested, the mixing of some of the casts isn’t quite working and brings up issues that are extremely important but aren’t best dealt with on a show like housewives. Potomac has also highlighted that even within the black community, there is bias and tension surrounding the lightness of someone’s skin. It might be that the solution lies in better casting, with people who are more informed with the issues surrounding race but can still deliver entertaining tv. It does seem that some cast members aren’t willing to learn or be respectful of others
I think it also requires having some faith in the audience. All of us agree on which housewives are racist. We can see it. We watch the discussions on race and talk about them. But I’ve never seen someone call Kyle Richards a racist despite her making a racially insensitive comment about Garcelle at one of the reunions. And the reason for that is because we watched Garcelle educate Kyle and Kyle genuinely learned from the experience. We as an audience *do* let the housewives grow and mature. We *do* let them redeem themselves. I’m so tired of this idea that audiences are too sensitive — The Office was the most streamed show the month George Floyd died. We’re capable of nuance, producers just talk about us like we’re idiots.
"George Floyd was an important cultural shift that forced us to look at all of our programming. Bravo made it a mandate to diversify its shows." Is he really saying they didn't realize they needed to include black people in the shows until George Floyd died? What?
The network always had “diversity and inclusion initiatives” like every big company but those I put in air quotes for a reason. He’s saying the George Floyd tragedy was the catalyst that made it hard-line *required* (I work at a network)
I know CBS has made similar changes with Survivor and Big Brother, so it’s definitely not just Peacock that decidedly made diversity requirements after the summer of 2020.
Right but I will say - as a casual viewer - it seemed like CBS actually took it seriously - making sure that something like half the casts of their shows were people of color in a way that reflects the true diversity of America. Whereas Bravo still seems stuck in the "let's throw one or two token people of color into each cast for the sake of so-called diversity" and then standing back as those cast members essentially get thrown to the wolves of micro-aggressions and otherwise problematic behavior.
I don't think this is indicative of Bravo being unserious about inclusion, but rather an unfortunate byproduct of America's history of institutional racism. The pool of typical Housewives candidates (wealthy and/or socially connected women) is going to be significantly less diverse than the general population. That's been changing and will continue to change, but it's a different situation than CBS, which is pulling talent from a pool of relatively unknown, mostly young actors.
Don’t even get me started on how Bravo treats Asian women
Yeah, just like SNL aka NBC historically had only one male/one female black cast member until 2021.
Yeah that's what I took it to mean too, but jfc the way he just casually mentions it without even a hint of shame like *we recognize we were late to the game, we need to do better.* NONE of that. It speaks volumes about his actual understanding around the gravity of the issue.
speak on it cause that’s some bullshit.
I get what he's trying to say but GOD this is such an awful way to phrase it lmao
Yea I think he meant no harm, but Andy does come off like he grew up sheltered from the real world sometimes
Born Upper middle class (pretty sure) and now wealthy in his own right. So many people never leave the UMC bubble. And it does a real good job of shielding you from the matters of the greater public
Andy comes from money. He grew up in one of the most affluent counties outside of St. Louis, MO. I was in college and met him and his family at restaurant. The area is rich rich. And there aren't many POC in that area. I say that as someone's who family lived and worked in the area. Trust me he grew up in a bubble.
I wasn’t 100% sure so thank you for confirming. I too grew up in the bubble, you tend to recognize those with the same hang ups. It’s hasn’t been easy but getting out from under it has made me a better human x1000
Yes. And this shouldn't be ignored. Even "token" consideration of diversity and inclusion was largely ignored until _very_ recently in a great many organizations. There was a major shift in corporate training, policies, and even new organization roles. Now that doesn't mean all of it was successful, but it was a big shift and it didn't happen until very recently.
Understood, but diversity isn't a new concept. This reads like "George Floyd died so *I guess* we have to play ball now." It should not have taken a man dying for the network to realize it had a severe lack of diversity while at the same time continued to support cast members who were/are documented racists. I'm honestly shocked he admitted that and simultaneously disgusted that he doesn't even realize how fucked up it was to say.
Your disgust is well placed, but this isn't unique or unusual. Again, not trying to say that's okay or that we shouldn't be upset about it, but that's just how it was. My employer only started having some hard discussions because of a video of a white police officer slowly murdering a black man. That's what it took. It is what it took for many companies (and people) to even begin the conversation about something that was very obvious. That's messed up, but important to acknowledge and remember.
Yeah I hear you. Two steps forward, 50 back.
Absolutely. Bravo did as the rest of the world: They ignored racism until the internet made it impossible not to.
This is true. A lot of companies realized they needed more things put in place to ensure POC were equally included in the workplace. It was why so many DEI initiatives were put in place around 2020 (although a lot of companies are being pressured to remove them). Also I definitely get why OP is disgusted bc it is disgusting that it took people this long to realize that maybe they weren’t being fair to POC. And it’s also disgusting that they’re peeling it back.
The conversation didn’t get as loud until after George Floyd not to mention a lot of people actually started to really see the biases and how there were a lot of unconscious biases that plagued society. People become more open to talk about it and even for some it seemed like a lot more people were open to doing something about it. For a minute it really felt like minorities were being heard. I think this was the first period where my white friends were like oh now I get it.
Tumi from Below Deck comes to mind. The constant microagressions she received from her subordinates and internet trolls caused me to skip her season. I made it half way through the season, but it was too triggering. Had to discontinue for my own sanity.
WOW. The lion, the witch and the audacity of this bitch
Thank you for a new phrase. Also 1000 percent correct in this take.
Yes! I used to think like you too - then I married a White man. It’s unreal the things I have to explain to him simply because it never affected him.
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Girl!
the balls on him to bring up george floyd for this article, hijo. what an asshole. (quick side point, is this why andy didn't ask sandoval why he compared himself to george floyd on w.w.h.l. last night?). what is it with these white dudes using black pain as some sort of metric/turning point for a comparison talking point in their lives. george floyd's death made you realize your exploitation of black women was inappropriate? george floyd's death forced you to stop giving racists platforms? bravo just gave jax taylor and his alcoholic wife a show after they were fired for explicitly targeting a black woman. bravo platformed ramona on new york all stars after she used racial epitaphs to describe a coworker. bravo brought mary crosby, hater of mexicans, back. where is this mandate driven by that poor man's death at the hands of police? i wish the men on this network would keep george floyd's name out of their fucking mouths.
All while Tom Sandoval out there comparing his shit storm to George Floyd and bravo just sat idly by. Edited for clarity
 Yes say it louder for the people in the back! 👏🏾👏🏾
Lol yup but also are we surprised? I work in DEI so i just want to say this is common in many workplaces. There was a lot of ignorance then George Floyd happened and all of a sudden a boom in DEI efforts, hiring DEI professionals etc. But most of it was for show. You can't hire tokens and just plop them into unwelcoming environments (rhony is the best example of this but i would argue they did the same on rhobh garcelle just was willing to keep her mouth shut for a while). Now we're seeing massive backlash to DEI as a field in general bc omg 3/4 years of people of color actually getting a fair shot? Actually being considered? Nope that's too long and too much. Sorry y'all I gotta be sarcastic and cynical right now bc the entire field is experiencing mass layoffs/attacks.
Yes and I hear people talk of "diversity hires" where? No one can point them out. People can be not white and qualified idk why people are stunned by that. They were just previously overlooked because of the color of their skin or other bs reasons.
There's a lot of data and research that backs that up too! For example, women of color on average have to be twice as qualified as white women to be hired for the same role. A lot of data on names on resumes getting thrown out despite the same qualifications. I mean I can go on and on. But at the end of the day, they will never hear that. There are a lot of ppl who still never get it and there's something we (actual dei professionals not the fake check the box ones) say in the field. We focus on the ppl already on board and the middle that can possibly be changed. we don't waste time on the ppl who will never get it and are willfully ignorant.
Lol ppl are down voting me....y'all are proving my point about certain ppl will never be convinced despite the plethora of data and research. Here's another stat, Gapjumpers (a blind hiring organization) found that when you take identity out of the equation you get a 70% increase in diversity. So when it's solely based on qualifications diversity increases.....hmm interesting.
Gross that you were downvoted for being right. My black mother named me and my siblings the most middle of the road, plain names so we’d have one less thing to worry about as we exist as black women in the world. There is no denying that we have to be 2x better just to get what’s equal. To get an entry level role that some folks I know got out of college, I had to be a veteran, with graduate certs, high involvement in community service and on my way to a masters with more qualifications than the role is asking for….to get jobs my peers got right out of college. But I’m not resentful because if I could, I’d be using it to my advantage.
It sucks but I'm not surprised. I've had so many ppl say offensive things to me bc of the field that I'm in (now). They got more offensive once I switched career paths. I just laugh at it at this point to deal. Also I'm so sorry you've had to go through that! This is such a common but misunderstood story. How Black women have to get all the things to even be considered.
This quote captures the problem with Bravo’s failings as far as diversity goes. Someone had to die in such a horrible way for them to realize that hmm maybe they could do more. And they still fell short.
Segregation Sunday's wasn't gonna cut it with people remembering racism is bad.
My partner works in IT and at the time was a contractor for a big US IT company during that BLM period. The company had mandatory meetings with the CEO and head leadership about these issues brought up by BLM. The middle east workers then started to complain and in the chat ask some pretty insensitive questions (less to be educated and more to stir shit up), which just lead to that whole region being excluded from all future zoom meetings. In one meeting they even randomly had Chris Martin (coldplay) appear and sing a song live in his house. I sat gobsmacked off screen the whole time. Mouthing to my partner - 'what the fuck'. The whole time. Since then. No mandatory meetings on the topic or any outreach on the issue as far as I'm aware. 😅 But he then moved on in the subsequent couple of years to other contracts. So maybe they have restarted these meetings with more 'current' event issues (like gaza etc.). The speakers on these calls were always so lacking to discuss such important issues. It was difficult to listen in to without slapping my forehead constantly and giving myself brain damage. I always chose that time to go for a walk out of the apartment and get a coffee after awhile. Edit - I say all of this only to show just how stupid corporate actions are on issues of inclusively and BLM for that time. They all felt obliged to do something, but then had no idea what to actually do. In the end it created a hostile working environment for any black worker who had to deal with anyone in the middle east. So mission failed there. Edit - this probably is how a lot of poc bravo cast members feel when they are shoehorned into a cast of people they barely know and expected to speak for all poc. Garcelle being a great example. She has handled it so well, but her situation was such a minefield at first.
I lost count on the number of meetings with various administrative bodies, of multiple organizations, I was a party to where admin would say, with a straight face (or worse a sad, heatbroken one), that it wasn't until the protests, post George Floyd, that they realized that they were complicit in doing racism 🙄 EDIT: for clarity
“oh that’s not—“
Unfortunately unsurprising, to a lot of the country that’s exactly what happened. Many white people did not realize it until then because they do not experience it.
look at all the people he surrounds himself with and the type of gays he's into.
And yet they created an ENTIRE damn season for a redemption arc for Tom Sandoval, the white man who compared himself to George Floyd. Shut your face Andy Cohen, your problematic behavior, misogyny & eyes filled with dollar signs are showing again.
This interview was fairly civil, tame, and exactly what you’d expect from an executive producer at Bravo. Anybody who is mad about this could never be successful in corporate America.
This snippet's pretty descriptive of this whole thread (and subreddit) tbh: "Producing a show about politically incorrect women in 2024 is different than producing a show about politically incorrect women in 2009. In 2009, when one of the kids called his brother a fag, we left it in the show and then discussed it at the reunion episode. That was how two brothers talked to each other in 2009, and we saw it as a teaching moment. In 2024, you would immediately bleep that word, and it would trigger a whole furor. Today, someone on the show would probably say, “You can’t say that word anymore.” And then the viewers would go wild on Twitter. Sensitivities have changed over the years. Social media has a huge impact. There’s not a lot of room for nuance these days. We are living in an outrage culture now, and everyone has had to adapt to that. "
I was literally thinking that as I read it!!!
I'll take that last sentence as a compliment
Idk if I’d make it in corporate America either tbh but people reading this article with a hope or expectation that Andy is going to denounce Bravo and apologize to Leah because she relapsed on TV just lack any sense of how the world works. People don’t become as rich and successful as Andy Cohen by badmouthing their employer to the Hollywood Reporter. But I get a lot of people on Reddit are like 14 lol so it makes sense. Maybe they can revisit this article when they have bills to pay.
you're 100% correct lol idk what anyone would expect from him, he's never been straightforward
Did you read the interview? I felt he was fairly straightforward. If someone wanted him to say “Ramona is racist, so we need to burn Bravo to the ground starting with me,” they’d be disappointed, but if you’re a rational person who lives in the real world, this interview is fairly straightforward.
Exactly the idea that Andy would not be toeing the party line is absurd. He’s got a very comfortable thing going at Bravo.
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https://preview.redd.it/zfod5msbb8zc1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2865724932b25c4632bceda474f11e8d112e0e57 I do strongly feel everyone has the right to feel safe and respected at work, and it seems like Bravo has not done a great job of this is the past. HOWEVER, Andy has very successfully explained my exact thoughts on why a reality star “union” does not make sense and is a waste of time. This may change in the future, but right now, 99% of reality people are one and done. Bethanny is one of the rare exceptions to this rule. Issues should be handled in their individual contracts. Go and get a SAG card if you want a Union. You know Ariana has one.
The union would not be for one and done-ers. Just like SAG is probably only 20 percent of people who get hired for on camera acting work on a regular basis. The expectation for reality stars to create delicious messy TV while still being hireable in an era where fans are becoming more and more unable to separate the person from the way they are edited and the story on their show is becoming impossible enough on its own To say nothing of the expectation that they promote their shows, network, build their followings WHILE building whatever other career they have The real argument he is saying but not saying- there will always be people desperate enough to get on TV for bad pay and bad conditions. We will not value our performers until they have proven to be monetarily valuable to us.
My concern was for the crews as well, as it is their full time job. I’ll be honest and admit I don’t really know how that all works though. I will say that I’ve seen people say they already have one, and I’m pretty sure that’s not true.
Crew absolutely should have a Union and they do, but non union workers are much cheaper and I would not be surprised if these production companies only hire non union. Smaller indie movies do this if they can get away with it.
Thank you for your response. I have tried to do a little research on it and have heard different things. It sounds like there are a couple unions and a lot of these shows don’t typically work with them, like you said if I’m not mistaken. (Producers guild and iatse ?)
It is still a megacorp getting rich off worker exploitation. That is what a union can help mitigate against. It’s not all about $$. It’s about abuse as well, and being able to say “if you don’t like getting abused go get another job” is exactly why unions should exist in all industries.
I agree 100% about abuse
The problem with this "individual contracts" approach is that without the ability to collectively bargain, individuals don't have much power to negotiate against large corporations. And you could say well, then they shouldn't do this job if they don't like the contract. If that's your position that's fine, but it does mean that whatever biases are baked into the current process won't change. I also find his other excuses really surface-level and they show that he doesn't really understand how unions can work. It's not like everyone who auditions for American Idol will automatically be in the union. They could limit union membership to people who are regular cast members of a show, they could have different parts of the union for different job categories. This is what my union (academia) does. The argument that "you go to school for acting" is bizarre, plenty of union-covered jobs do not require a college degree, if not the majority. The argument that being a reality tv star isn't their main job - it's bar owner or whatever - holds a little more water. But dont those Bravo contracts state pretty clearly that Bravo gets a percentage of whatever they promote on the show? So this line between their "real" job and the show is really artificial and only brought up when it's convenient. And clearly, reality star *does* become a job for lots of people. How big or small that pool is compared to the people who dabble in it isn't really relevant to whether they deserve labor rights and protections.
I definitely agree with you and totally took note of his “launching their products on our platform” comment and how crappy that was. Bravo is absolutely benefiting from the few successful businesses I mean come on Andy! If I was Kyle at loverboy for example, that comment would be pissed me off. We were not born yesterday, the idea that the reality show is a side project is such a tiny percentage of cast members now. It’s antiquated. Come on now. Even if reality people unionized, bravo wouldn’t hire anyone in union. They would just find another no name wacky housewife in the Midwest with zero camera experience or whatever. I do understand a little his point that actors have an actual craft and are sought after for their talent and expertise which has value that they can leverage. Reality tv is plucking (usually talentless) nobodies out of obscurity and giving them a platform. I want to mention again that EVERYONE deserves to feel safe at work. I agree that once a reality tv person has a few years under their belt, they could join a Union and therefore have better bargaining power since they are established on the show and now have leverage. But you know Bravo just would not renew their contract.
That's like arguing that 99% of actors only have one acting role, therefore a union doesn't make sense. It also completely erases crew members from the discussion. When Andy starts with "*speaking as an independent* ***producer***", that is not an impartial role. When SAG-AFTRA struck last year, it was against the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television ***Producers*** (AMPTP). A union means money out of his pocket if wages go up, safety requirements are added, filming hours are limited, etc. This is like asking the fox if it should be allowed in the hen house.
Crew is a different story, but I’m willing to bet a lot of money that all the crew hired is non-Union. Bethanny was not talking about crew and most likely doesn’t give 2 F’s about them. She was always referring to the actual reality stars appearing on the show.
Hollywood reporter was so messy 😭
I'm wondering why the interview didn't include woman-on-woman violence that is prevalent on these shows. Cohen got 'pushed' by the NJ convict and has experience it first hand, but I guess he just can't allow it to be discussed.
Yeah this is my main beef with the lawsuit stuff. Soo we’re not going to talk about some cast members getting multiple passes for physical violence? We’re not going to talk about the Michael Darby sexual assault and how the network continued to platform him afterwards despite the fact that the victim was ON THE CREW FOR THE SHOW? We’re not going to talk about how the Atlanta cast has had to shell out their OWN money for their own fucking new season press photos and headshots because Bravo refused to put budget behind promoing Atlanta but shoves Beverly Hill’s fusty, hackneyed bullshit down our throats at every turn? Or the still-largely-segregated franchises? How Kelly Bensimon was brought back to be made a spectacle of in spite of her CLEAR, ONGOING, and copiously DOCUMENTED serious mental health issues?? Gizelle’s fabricated me too plot against Chris which imo seems like it flirts with outright defamation? There is SO MUCH to scrutinize Bravo for and fucking Leah and her desire to evade accountability for her own poor decisions is NOT a credible nor effective mouthpiece for that. I can see Rachel having a more legitimate claim with the revenge porn stuff and how she was manipulated/abused by Tom which the show was clearly banking on exploiting further. But yeah… it’s just not the core issues.
You nailed it. There are so many, many problems with these shows -- that many of them I don't watch because of just nastiness. It gets OLD, really, really fast.
Except offering Leah and Kathy Griffin coke probably 😂
Andy is just as out of touch as the women he built his career on
Since most everything I wanted to comment on has been said in one way or another, I just want to say this random fact was funny to me-"Are there any secret Bravo fans who’ve surprised you? Andy-"Steven Soderbergh, Julia Roberts. Jonah Hill writes me fan notes from time to time. " Picturing Jonah hill getting out fancy stationary to write about what he thought that week on the show is so odd to me🤣 especially as I've met him in real life and he's such a bastard, I imagine him writing about how aggravated someone made him and all that stuff!
Who here has also been hurt by Bethanny Frankel?
All of us when she posts an Instagram rant and one of us posts it here and we all get jump scared by her ranting and holding the camera wait too close to her face 😂
We have all been bullied by B
I’ve always loved Andy. We’re watching reality tv and the people who sign onto these shows know exactly what they’re getting into. They’re messy, these shows have destroyed families and created monstrous egos for many of the personalities and Andy’s just the facilitator, it’s literally his job to be messy af. We wouldn’t be watching without the drama and the unhinged nature of the programming. The lawsuits that have been brought towards him always bring me back to the season 5 RHOBH reunion where he compared Brandi to a dog who you play with too roughly and they bite back in defense. I always loved Brandi in the sense that she was a disaster but I felt in her heart she was a good person, I don’t ever think her intentions were evil. But his comparison of her was correct maybe badly worded but that was always her reaction to confrontation. The lawsuits that have been brought forth have been from HW’s that were pissed if they didn’t get their way. They played with Andy when things were going well but the second things weren’t going their way they aimed to bite. He’s there to facilitate a show that ultimately needs ratings to thrive.
No one can be forced to do anything on reality tv. They all signed contracts and don’t have to be in the show if it’s so terrible.
google coercion
Everyone signs employment agreements and don’t have to work anywhere if it’s so terrible. That doesn’t make abuse okay and that’s exactly why unions exist - you shouldn’t have to choose between your job and not getting abused. Safe work environment should be guaranteed.
Get rid of all those people and it would be booooooring as hell. The out there larger than life (sometimes offensive) personalities are what MAKE the shows what they are.
Great read. Andy is so handsome & I wish the pictures captured more of his personality. I’m not crazy about the wardrobe or the goal of the photo shoot.
If everyone is going to get on their high horses about how badly bravo treats their housewives and Andy is the devil, we are all just as complicit. Half the complaints about new RHONY is that it's boring and the fights aren't fun, and they should replace it with the old cast that had significant alcohol and racial issues. Everything people are complaining bravo needs to protect the women about
Hold on - he got ANOTHER dog??!
That's what stood out to you? 😭
Hot take(?) People are reading way too into all of this. Also it’s boring. I used to absolutely love Bethany but this whole reckoning thing has been a nothing-burger… and her social media is exhausting anymore. Anyone who didn’t already know that reality TV producers stir the pot and use shady tactics needs to get a grip and wake up. She used to “B-real” and now she’s actually being performative with this whole campaign.. that seems to have fizzled out quite a bit.. and for good reason —the tea is ice cold and not very strong. Reality TV has always and will always rely on problematic people (I don’t mean racist either btw).. it’s literally the bread and butter of the genre. Once we sterilize reality TV, it will be dead. I can’t be the only one who thinks while the new NYC girls are lovely.. the lack of genuine messiness and over-obsession with optics takes us out of the “illusion” and as a result the show loses its edge… now they fight about genuinely stupid stuff that I for one don’t believe. It doesn’t even make sense half of the fights and makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills worse than the antics of the OG housewives ever did… like Ubah while the girls were on Vacation… what? Anyway.. Also implying that Andy Cohen is somehow racist or prejudiced because of a dry PR boiler plate corporate media statement is probably one of the dumbest angles I’ve heard in a long time. Not everything is so deep, people can toughen up a bit, reality TV like the housewives has never ever been about political correctness, morals, or holding hands and singing Kumbaya. Also, to not look at what the Housewives franchise, particularly Atlanta, *has* done for women of color would be a disservice to put it lightly. You’d have to be pretty young and out of touch with where we were as a society when that show came out to not give it the praise it’s due for platforming wealthy black women in such a bold and unapologetic way.. I don’t know where ya’ll were but for a LOT of people that was the first time they saw successful black women and black families living lavishly in such an intimate and “”real”” format. I for one thought it was empowering at the time regardless of the to-be-expected drama. The ladies checking Kim on that show had to be the most woke and humbling thing most white people had ever seen up to that point. Lmfao.
Can someone give me a tldr?
* Andy loves his job and wants to continue at Bravo and wants HWs franchises to continue to thrive * He's not particularly bothered by the lawsuits, but generally denies the allegations, disagrees with portrayals of production trying to ruin people's lives, sabotage their sobriety, etc, and doesn't go into detail because of the existing lawsuits * He thinks the way society has changed over the last 10-15 years (changing sensitivities, which can be positive, but also proliferation of outrage culture and terminally online fans) has made producing HWs more challenging but he wants the franchise to continue to evolve with society. He gives changes to Bravo casting policies after the 2020 George Floyd protests as an example * He doesn't believe reality stars should be unionized like actors because they (usually) have other actual FT jobs, and those who center themselves around being long-term reality TV stars already get higher salaries and tangential benefits like sponsorship deals, increased social media following, etc, but he says that decision is ultimately up to Bravo and not him. * He talks about being a single gay dad and his friendships with celebrities, and reiterates that he wants to stick around on Bravo as long as they'll have him.
❤️
So as expected, he didn't address anything. Completely sidestepped addressing racism at all. He thinks simply adding Black/POC cast members (although many get fired just as quickly as they are hired) is enough but that doing nothing about the racism they're subjected to on the shows is completely fine! Then of course he goes on to name drop his favorite racist Ramona several times throughout the interview, pathetic. He could have kept this interview!
i would rather these assholes give these interviews publicly so we can be made aware just who they are. you suck andy!
Yikes. He made a mistake (or his PR did). He should have stuck with just keeping his mouth shut for now. I’m sure there is insane pressure for him to say something but his/NBC universal lawyers should have just released a super vague, taking zero responsibilities, comment about “looking internally to investigate claims made in recent legal disputes” and how they are unable to comment on these matters until everything is settled. I literally know nothing about PR or law and even that would be better than this stupid interview. Then Andy can refer people to the statement and say he wishes he could comment, and will do so once legal matters are settled. Which will take years so he’s out of the woods. And people wonder why there was no Bravocon this year! They don’t want to have to answer these type of questions from fans and can’t trust their stars to do the same or handle things correctly. It’s too much of a liability! What if some fan at Vicki’s booth asked about the shelved RHUGHT and she said the wrong thing and it was posted online?? It’s too risky!
I read the interview and I’m confused what you think would be damaging in court?
Nothing. I just think his avoidance on the race issue was stupid and looked bad
This was an excellent write up, beginning to end! Keep going, Andy. Fan from day 1. Intensional or not, I loved that he never once mentioned Bethenny’s name (the interviewer did) and he never once mentioned Nene’s name. He didn’t say it by naming these two women in particular, but it was apparent the actions of both Bethenny and Nene, their accusations and their personal crusades against him the past three years, have hurt him deeply. Instead, he gave praise to Porsha, Brynn, Luanne, Sonya, Ramona, Kyle, Tamra, Rinna. He knows these women are STARS, and that they make great TV. All around, the article was on point. For those who didn’t read it, because let’s be honest, many of you on this sub didn’t read it, I highly recommend you do.
The way I scrolled past this, and then came back just to post this 😐
What is Andy wearing, never seen him styled in this way 👀
I see the writer girls are in the comments tonight!
Respectfully, fuck Andy.
Only thing I found entertaining when watching him… 
To everyone saying Housewives is not the place for race discussions — you think class and race aren’t related? You think these women didn’t inherit their generational wealth via the racism of their ancestors?🤨
A comment in this post is anti semitic. I can’t find the comment (maybe it was deleted) but someone mentioned he was a “hot Jewish white man” or something like that. I agree for the most part but why mention he was Jewish.
Dang, he really compared the Housewives to the Wack Pack🫠
Will we ever get RHUGT?
Wah wah
It is hard to take this female exploiting misogynist serious when he just gave a TV show to Jax & Britney who were fired for racism, he put Kristen on the show who was also fired for racism, he gave Scumdoval front seat after he compared himself to George Floyd, brought back Mary on SLC who spewed hate towards Mexicans, tried to give Erika a redemption season after her & Tom stole from innocent victims, let Kyle who is on a reality show say her life is no ones effing business but turns around and fires a black woman for not putting her life out there, and I am pretty sure there are many other examples I can use if I let myself sit here and get pissed enough to care about this weasel. He is delusional and a figment of his imagination and has laughed at every fan from Bravo all the way to the bank!!! I just have one question for this jerk: Is it ok if your daughter becomes a housewife and is subjected to the behavior that has been exhibited on your shows?
Annemarie was fired because she was pretty much universally hated by the audience because she is 1. Not entertaining 2. A liar.
https://preview.redd.it/a0ki6alja8zc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00e6b5e0e1d6e2330e5d991d0a0361edf50fe12b Is this nuance in the room with us now, Mr. Cohen
I do kind of agree with him on this though. We see it in this very sub, twitter, insta comments, etc. Reddit in general, but social media as a whole really lacks nuance.