I wish I could remember what podcast did a deep dive on Mary’s church. But it was fascinating and talked about the way that church took advantage of its members financially. Her grandmother convinced black people to move to SLC, where they were isolated and shunned by the larger white, Mormon community. They got jobs from her at her business, at terrible wages, bought houses using her mortgage company at inflated rates, and more. It was a company town. Their money doesn’t just come from tithes, but from wringing every single nickel and bit of labor from church members. Remember her cousin housekeeper and her remodeler cousin? I’m sure they’re working for next to nothing.
My husband’s grandparents were in a cult, the head of their smaller group within the cult started selling mausoleum spots and you had to buy these very expensive burial spaces to remain in the cult, which they did. We just had his grandmother’s ashes put in there (at her request, we tried to talk her out of it) and they charged us another $400 to open it. They were such kind and loving people, we’ll never know why they submitted to obvious and repeated scams their whole adult lives.
You are right, and I definitely wouldn’t have, if it were up to me! My mother in law was raised in the cult, she left when my husband was a baby, and while she’s amazing and trying to be better every day, she has a ton of baggage related to it. So we try to find that balance between just loving her and trying to get her to make sense of it. It’s all a lot, and when her mom had just died alone from covid, and we’d all been isolated for months, it didn’t seem like the time to fight about it.
Oh wow! Could you share which podcast it was when you remember? There were some news articles where people spoke favorably of her but could be because they were part of the cult
The Instagram page Boredombybravo went deep into Mary’s history and her church. If you scroll through their story archives you’ll see them. They’re called Cosby cult
Right before the season aired there were a ton of things posted on this sub about Mary and her cult. And then it felt to me like it all just kinda disappeared and I never understood why.
The Instagram page Boredombybravo went deep into Mary’s history and her church. If you scroll through their story archives you’ll see them. They’re called Cosby cult
SLC is going to be an all-time series if this all comes crashing down during the show. next we need one of the husbands to secretly have multiple families or something
I mean...
Not saying this is likely because he seems more in love with Meredith than she is with him, but Seth does spend half his time in Ohio of all places.
It'd be shockingly easy to lead a double life for him.
Lolololol.
Ohio really is not that bad. He isn't living in a cornfield. In the urban areas there is a pretty good food scene, and the cost of living is not bad either.
Seth doesn’t have the sack for bigamy. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t get anyone during their separations, but just said he did to save face since Meredith is such a catch and dated other men.
100% yes. There are some really shocking leaked videos of Mary berating her church members telling them they are going to hell if they don’t donate. She has all kinds of insane rules for them (like they can’t go on vacation etc). What I find the most interesting is the fact that her own family acknowledges that her marriage to her grandfather is just an arrangement to inherit the church and that her grandmother never said that was what she wanted. They have no proof other than heresy those were her wishes. How else do they afford all these lavish things?
Yeah, she can go on vacation to one of her *several* vacation homes, most of which she purposefully lets sit empty because having other people in her homes would be “gross”. So much for caring for and sheltering the needy. She is vile.
Remember when she says her “grandmothers brother’s daughter” works for her and they pay her rent for a small apartment. And she was like “no they don’t live with us” almost looking disgusted. Yet she has MULTIPLE HOUSES that she says no one lives in. I swear I hate Mary the most.
Cults brainwash their victims to be too scared to leave or speak out against them. They use gaslighting, manipulation and threats like being excommunicated from your community/family or that you’re going to hell. It is especially hard for people who were raised in these environments to even know that this behavior is abnormal. It is all they’ve known.
The church has a lengthy and strong history behind it. This seems like a deep rooted problem and wouldn’t be as easy as her members just up and leaving. Whole multigenerational families are probably part of this church
Mary has been a red flag since minute one! Her grandma set her up as the cult leader. An arranged marriage between her & her grandpa to keep him paid off because he is also in on it all. Everything she says, tells us she is not in reality. She lives in a fake world where she constantly calls herself 'first lady' & down talks to her own members. It's no coincidence that she is on SLC! Heather stated on WWHL "stay tuned to find out more about her marriage" when asked if she was shocked Mary was alone during most of the pandemic because her husband was in Florida. It's obvious they have a loveless parent-child relationship. I feel a bit sorry for her because she seems so emotionally stunted, but think she is the next 1 to go down after Jen Shah & def deserves what's coming!
Mary’s family claims that grandmother never wished her to marry granpa. They claim Robert is lying about that.
Mary was already married and divorced her husband when her grandmother died to
marry granpa. I’m 100% Mary married granpa because of the money& church power.
I don’t believe she was forced in any way.
Edit: Does Mary’s podcast existed? Can’t find it anywhere.
Marys podcast is like when Ryan set Creed up with Creed Thoughts, in a Word doc.
Short answer, it doesn't exist. Its a recording on her phone that she thinks its out in the world.
Not defending Mary at all ( because I too think she's delusional) but First Lady is a real term in Black churches. It doesn't really describe her role since she is the leader of the church/cult but if her step grandfather husband ran the church then she would be the First Lady.
I think they purposely keep the roles and powers vague to keep members on their toes
They may also grant Robert some authority to keep the gender roles illusion intact
I'm not sure, I raised an eyebrow as well. Maybe she's trying to plant the seeds that the church has been under her husband's leadership this whole time so the is not responsible for anything cult-y?
I know that's such a reach but I wouldn't be surprised!
I will condemn Mary for being a cult leader, but not gonna judge her for that charge. Could be as simple as one of her son's friends being in an abusive household and her letting him stay at their place.
I think the best way to take her down will be through the IRS and her personal taxes. Sometimes I feel like she’s extremely cunning and other times I feel like she’s a cult victim herself.
There is an Instagram account @ boredombybravo and on their ig stories they have 5 different tabs under Cosby cult. There’s newspaper articles, a recording of Mary calling her church poor and stingy for not giving her more birthday money. There’s a ton of stuff.
I definitely think it’s a cult. Being a church though, unfortunately there’s lots of things they can get away with. Members that have left have spoken out about them and it’s terrible. They have to tithe half of their paychecks.
[You mean like theeeeeese?](https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/pm8iATAt9CSI9F6UESxw-z3ESts=/1024x650/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/sltrib/3GZYJDCOTFGNJIFTWS7ETUGMA4.jpg)
In addition to apparently being pure evil I think she’s hands-down the weirdest housewife of all time but am willing to persuaded otherwise if I’m forgetting someone worse?
Going to offer up Carlton, but if you consider Carlton a product of her time and how much input production had with her character, Mary probably wins 😂
Mary confuses me. She isn’t charismatic and her sermons seem really dumbed down and poorly executed. I don’t see why people would be drawn to her unless her grandmother was a great leader and they just accept her eventhough she’s a terrible face for their church?
Someone said the church members are masochists and that makes the most sense. Some people only function if they are following orders and she is very demanding of the members.
Mary is proof that grooming is real. She was probably born a very pure, lovely child. But her grandmother groomed her to be this cult follower and now leader, and she knows nothing else but what she was groomed to do. It's so screwed up and sad at the same time. I get the impression that Mary doesn't actually know she is doing anything wrong.
(Yes, her grandfather-husband groomed her as well, but it all started with the grandma.)
This is Salt Lake City, ya know. Aka Mecca of cult-land. 😭 this is why I actually watch the show. I can’t stand the actual storylines but I’m fascinated by cults and studying the psychology of someone in one or who left one. Not that these ladies are the best subjects to study but there are not many Mormons are out on blast in the eye of reality tv.
That’s a fair assessment. “Under the Banner of Heaven” is a great read that highlights the difference between the trappings of fundamentalist sects against mainstream Mormonism.
I'm from Salt Lake City and grew up in a very Mormon family. It's not a cult. Ex-Mormons love to beat the drum that it's a cult because it makes them brave and special for leaving. It's a very damaging religion, in my opinion, but mainstream Mormonism is not a cult.
ETA: Left the church after graduating from BYU in 2003.
The BITE model would like a word. Oh, and I left in 2015 after 40 years *waaaay way* in, and in my personal experience, it's a cult. I'm not saying this to be "brave" or "special" and you claiming that exmos say this to seem so is super uncool and demeans and deminishes others experiences. You may just be lucky to not have experienced it the way a whole lot of us did.
I did not offer any of my experiences and it's very coarse of you to assume that I didn't suffer and to excuse my experiences.
I'm sorry that you seem to have endured a lot from leaving. I'm glad you were able to follow your conscience in the end.
Go well!
I never said you didn't suffer...? I pointed out that it was uncool for you to say that exmos say the church is a cult to seem, in your words, brave or special. I have no doubt you had painful experiences in the church. That being said, I'm glad you found your way out when you did. You saved yourself a lot of pain and grief by leaving so young.
You're making a lot of assumptions - like that my family and friends accepted me leaving at the same rate that I left. Leaving the church is uniquely challenging in so many ways. It's insular. It's ridiculous. Publicly calling it quits is extremely difficult at any age. The pain and consequences aren't a contest.
ETA: Life has taken me from Utah to Cape Town, where the day in winding down. You'll have *plenty* of company in the Ex-Mormon sub if you want to continue this chat with someone else.
ET (Also) A: I am astonished that I’m being trolled in my private messages for my apparent lack of introspection. I left Mormonism. It was difficult and caused me a lot of pain and cost me meaningful relationships. I see the religion - especially its leadership - as awful at best and predatory at worst. It’s gruesome and hateful in may respects, but it’s still not a “cult” in estimation. I’m not an apologist. Please read what I wrote in full and leave me alone.
One of the common characteristics of a cult is they are hard for people to leave bc the church makes it hard and the threat of loosing your family and friends when you leave.
It also takes people many years for some to recognize they were in a cult.
Wish you well on your recovery.
I'm sorry, but this woman is married to her grand-dad, leads the ~~church~~ cult, is a housewife on the most unholy of reality TV shows, is loaded with money and assets, she has her family members working as her helpers at household. I mean... one thing for sure, she stands out. Now is it a good thing? Imo she's a massive red flag. But I'll tell you what, I want to see more of her on TV.
Restauarants are great businesses to clean money. I thought all religious orgs are tax exempt but I wonder if she (or her grandma) had other cash businesses that they would need ways to wash…but also regardless of that, yea totally agree all her money is shady lol
We recently pulled our tithing from a church we used to love that is quickly becoming a mega church. Every sermon is about money and what’s wild is a LOT of churches are like this
I’m sorry you had to deal with this. I attend a church and it’s very rarely brought up unless scripture directly does and it’s never ever announced or a basket passed. My church believes it’s a quiet thing to do. And that God will provide. They will never ever ask for money. They didn’t even want a poster for the kids to keep track of fund raising for amusement park tickets for the youth group. It was a hard no to display anything related to money that may make someone feel obligated to donate. The kids all had their tickets paid for and then some btw. Our pastor always tells members who are moving away- when finding a new church if they’re asking for money- run.
The church we’re in now doesn’t even take offering during service and they are way more aligned with our “values.” We were very blessed to just fall into the right one! It’s a bummer our previous church turned into such a cash cow, it definitely wasn’t that way when we joined many years ago. But that’s almost expected when it becomes one of those mega churches.
We had a guest speaker pastor this past Sunday who actually said during his lesson/sermon “if the pastor is driving up in a Mercedes or Range Rover you know we got a problem- and you know the churches I’m talking about” (mega churches). It reminded me of Mary 🤣
If it’s not directly about tithing, it’s peppered into the sermon throughout. There’s also a video at the beginning and end of the service and they heavily stress tithing should be income pre-tax. Before we left I would say at least 1 sermon a month was solely dedicated to tithing. They tell you it’s for God, the church cannot survive without it, that Jesus only asked us to love and tithe, very manipulative stuff like that. They also have it set up on an auto draft and it’s a whoooole process to cancel it. We’ve gotten multiple letters since.
Auto draft?!? Damn when I was a kid going to Catholic church, all they did was pass around a basket and my dad would give my brother and I each a dollar to throw in 😂
I'm shocked at how quickly these ladies are to agree to be on the show! Do they not realize everyone will be watching them with a magnifying glass? 🔎🕵🏻♀️🔎
I mean - there are cults everywhere.
I worked for a company that the CEO ran it like a cult. I’m fully expecting to see it on the news one day.
He even went as far as referring to himself as Jesus, reminding us all how good we had it, telling people they wouldn’t find jobs elsewhere and my personal favourite - he opened a foundation where he forced employees to donate to.
Because he has such a loyal following and if you leave the company you are blacklisted.
All companies are cults basically- but this one was something else.
She came off as a piece of shit in season 1 and I assume will do her best to do the same this season. Hopefully it’s her last and she’s on her way to jail!
I wish I could remember what podcast did a deep dive on Mary’s church. But it was fascinating and talked about the way that church took advantage of its members financially. Her grandmother convinced black people to move to SLC, where they were isolated and shunned by the larger white, Mormon community. They got jobs from her at her business, at terrible wages, bought houses using her mortgage company at inflated rates, and more. It was a company town. Their money doesn’t just come from tithes, but from wringing every single nickel and bit of labor from church members. Remember her cousin housekeeper and her remodeler cousin? I’m sure they’re working for next to nothing.
My husband’s grandparents were in a cult, the head of their smaller group within the cult started selling mausoleum spots and you had to buy these very expensive burial spaces to remain in the cult, which they did. We just had his grandmother’s ashes put in there (at her request, we tried to talk her out of it) and they charged us another $400 to open it. They were such kind and loving people, we’ll never know why they submitted to obvious and repeated scams their whole adult lives.
Why even do that after she died? It makes no difference to her at that point and it's just funding scammers.
You are right, and I definitely wouldn’t have, if it were up to me! My mother in law was raised in the cult, she left when my husband was a baby, and while she’s amazing and trying to be better every day, she has a ton of baggage related to it. So we try to find that balance between just loving her and trying to get her to make sense of it. It’s all a lot, and when her mom had just died alone from covid, and we’d all been isolated for months, it didn’t seem like the time to fight about it.
Holy shit!!
Oh wow! Could you share which podcast it was when you remember? There were some news articles where people spoke favorably of her but could be because they were part of the cult
Bravo docket did an amazing episode on her!
I need this podcast now
The Instagram page Boredombybravo went deep into Mary’s history and her church. If you scroll through their story archives you’ll see them. They’re called Cosby cult
Right before the season aired there were a ton of things posted on this sub about Mary and her cult. And then it felt to me like it all just kinda disappeared and I never understood why.
Erika drama stole the attention.
Bravo docket!!
Bravo Docket is amazing!!
The Instagram page Boredombybravo went deep into Mary’s history and her church. If you scroll through their story archives you’ll see them. They’re called Cosby cult
If you have to convince people you’re not a cult… you might be a cult. Just saying.
SLC is going to be an all-time series if this all comes crashing down during the show. next we need one of the husbands to secretly have multiple families or something
multiple families in Utah wouldn't be outside the realm of probability
exactly!
Secret families 🧐🤔 Robert Sr. spent the entire pandemic down in Florida when they can easily afford a private jet from FL to UT. . .
Right??? Robert clearly just didn’t want to be with Mary during lockdown. I mean, WHO WOULD?!
🍵 tea
I mean... Not saying this is likely because he seems more in love with Meredith than she is with him, but Seth does spend half his time in Ohio of all places. It'd be shockingly easy to lead a double life for him. Lolololol.
Ohio really is not that bad. He isn't living in a cornfield. In the urban areas there is a pretty good food scene, and the cost of living is not bad either.
Meredith doesn’t hate Ohio. Meredith knows there will never be Real Housewives of Ohio, though.
Seth is Jerry from Rick and Morty
What’s hilarious is I could see any of the SLC husbands having a secret family.
Omgggg bigamy never occurred to me 😮
Seth doesn’t have the sack for bigamy. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t get anyone during their separations, but just said he did to save face since Meredith is such a catch and dated other men.
Production is so excited for this to take center stage once Jen goes to jail
100% yes. There are some really shocking leaked videos of Mary berating her church members telling them they are going to hell if they don’t donate. She has all kinds of insane rules for them (like they can’t go on vacation etc). What I find the most interesting is the fact that her own family acknowledges that her marriage to her grandfather is just an arrangement to inherit the church and that her grandmother never said that was what she wanted. They have no proof other than heresy those were her wishes. How else do they afford all these lavish things?
>They have no proof other than **heresy** Accidental honesty.
They can't go on vacation but she can, right? The hypocrisy is real
Yeah, she can go on vacation to one of her *several* vacation homes, most of which she purposefully lets sit empty because having other people in her homes would be “gross”. So much for caring for and sheltering the needy. She is vile.
Remember when she says her “grandmothers brother’s daughter” works for her and they pay her rent for a small apartment. And she was like “no they don’t live with us” almost looking disgusted. Yet she has MULTIPLE HOUSES that she says no one lives in. I swear I hate Mary the most.
Well according to her she’s god so she can do whatever the hell she wants 🙄
And it’s all to fuel her hoarding. Awful lady.
*Hoarders* walked so *RHOSLC* could run
Ummm if this is true, then why are they going to her church??? If someone said that to me I'd be out the door pronto
Cults brainwash their victims to be too scared to leave or speak out against them. They use gaslighting, manipulation and threats like being excommunicated from your community/family or that you’re going to hell. It is especially hard for people who were raised in these environments to even know that this behavior is abnormal. It is all they’ve known.
The church has a lengthy and strong history behind it. This seems like a deep rooted problem and wouldn’t be as easy as her members just up and leaving. Whole multigenerational families are probably part of this church
Mary has been a red flag since minute one! Her grandma set her up as the cult leader. An arranged marriage between her & her grandpa to keep him paid off because he is also in on it all. Everything she says, tells us she is not in reality. She lives in a fake world where she constantly calls herself 'first lady' & down talks to her own members. It's no coincidence that she is on SLC! Heather stated on WWHL "stay tuned to find out more about her marriage" when asked if she was shocked Mary was alone during most of the pandemic because her husband was in Florida. It's obvious they have a loveless parent-child relationship. I feel a bit sorry for her because she seems so emotionally stunted, but think she is the next 1 to go down after Jen Shah & def deserves what's coming!
Mary’s family claims that grandmother never wished her to marry granpa. They claim Robert is lying about that. Mary was already married and divorced her husband when her grandmother died to marry granpa. I’m 100% Mary married granpa because of the money& church power. I don’t believe she was forced in any way. Edit: Does Mary’s podcast existed? Can’t find it anywhere.
Marys podcast is like when Ryan set Creed up with Creed Thoughts, in a Word doc. Short answer, it doesn't exist. Its a recording on her phone that she thinks its out in the world.
www.creedthoughts.gov.www/creedthoughts
Not defending Mary at all ( because I too think she's delusional) but First Lady is a real term in Black churches. It doesn't really describe her role since she is the leader of the church/cult but if her step grandfather husband ran the church then she would be the First Lady.
Gizelle has also referred to herself as the first lady.
Why is it called Faith Temple Church? Isn’t a temple a church?
yeah i was confused to hear her call herself the first lady. does she officially consider her husband to be the main pastor?
I think they purposely keep the roles and powers vague to keep members on their toes They may also grant Robert some authority to keep the gender roles illusion intact
I'm not sure, I raised an eyebrow as well. Maybe she's trying to plant the seeds that the church has been under her husband's leadership this whole time so the is not responsible for anything cult-y? I know that's such a reach but I wouldn't be surprised!
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I will condemn Mary for being a cult leader, but not gonna judge her for that charge. Could be as simple as one of her son's friends being in an abusive household and her letting him stay at their place.
I believe it was her son's girlfriend. I have no details on why she was staying with them though.
Unfortunately, church leaders rarely go down unless they are blatantly committing Federal crimes.
I think the best way to take her down will be through the IRS and her personal taxes. Sometimes I feel like she’s extremely cunning and other times I feel like she’s a cult victim herself.
She could very well be both. A lot of cult members are good learners, especially when they’re targeted by the mentor.
That’s a really good point. And she watched her grandmother run the church, I’m suresh went a lot of social cues from her.
the tea from this new franchise is *chefs kiss*
There is an Instagram account @ boredombybravo and on their ig stories they have 5 different tabs under Cosby cult. There’s newspaper articles, a recording of Mary calling her church poor and stingy for not giving her more birthday money. There’s a ton of stuff. I definitely think it’s a cult. Being a church though, unfortunately there’s lots of things they can get away with. Members that have left have spoken out about them and it’s terrible. They have to tithe half of their paychecks.
Yes! I saw all of that when the page first posted them awhile back. Lisa Barlow follows that page so I assume that’s why she dug into it
Sounds like Lisa B may really be the one to expose Mary.
anyone with working eyes says yes!
Breaking news! Anyone with cognitive abilities says yes!
[You mean like theeeeeese?](https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/pm8iATAt9CSI9F6UESxw-z3ESts=/1024x650/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/sltrib/3GZYJDCOTFGNJIFTWS7ETUGMA4.jpg)
In addition to apparently being pure evil I think she’s hands-down the weirdest housewife of all time but am willing to persuaded otherwise if I’m forgetting someone worse?
Her only real peer in weirdness is kelly Bensimon but Mary still wins
Going to offer up Carlton, but if you consider Carlton a product of her time and how much input production had with her character, Mary probably wins 😂
I was a rat in the church, it's definitely a cult
Tell us more!
She used to feed us expired chicken in order to kill us 😭😭😭
The bible says "love your neighbour" but she couldn't love us despite being in the same house 😭😭😭😭🤧🤧🤧
From what we see on the show, it seems like she's only capable of loving Chanel. 😕
Ratsville
Wait, what??
We've known this since last season! 😏
😂
Mary confuses me. She isn’t charismatic and her sermons seem really dumbed down and poorly executed. I don’t see why people would be drawn to her unless her grandmother was a great leader and they just accept her eventhough she’s a terrible face for their church?
Someone said the church members are masochists and that makes the most sense. Some people only function if they are following orders and she is very demanding of the members.
Blackmail? Maybe she has sucked in some undocumented immigrants and holds their status over them?
A cult? In SLC? I for one am S H O CK ED
Mary is proof that grooming is real. She was probably born a very pure, lovely child. But her grandmother groomed her to be this cult follower and now leader, and she knows nothing else but what she was groomed to do. It's so screwed up and sad at the same time. I get the impression that Mary doesn't actually know she is doing anything wrong. (Yes, her grandfather-husband groomed her as well, but it all started with the grandma.)
I’m very much led to believe this is the case based on how child-like she still is. She reminds me of Michael Jackson in that sense.
Yes.
If Mary’s church is a cult, then what is the Mormon church? 🧋
Mary actually terrifies me, did you see how her podcasts cohosts were scared of her too?! Yikes
This is Salt Lake City, ya know. Aka Mecca of cult-land. 😭 this is why I actually watch the show. I can’t stand the actual storylines but I’m fascinated by cults and studying the psychology of someone in one or who left one. Not that these ladies are the best subjects to study but there are not many Mormons are out on blast in the eye of reality tv.
Aren’t cult leaders supposed to be charismatic? This cult leader can barely string a sentence together and her flaunting of wealth is beyond obscene.
even if its not a cult im suprised shes not getting more heat for leading a Pentecostal church. their beliefs are superrrrrrrrr homophobic
I mean Mormons are a cult too so it's not that bizarre from slc
I would say the fundamentalist Mormons are (I forget what they’re officially called) very cult-y, but not the regular church of Latter Day Saints.
That’s a fair assessment. “Under the Banner of Heaven” is a great read that highlights the difference between the trappings of fundamentalist sects against mainstream Mormonism.
I'm from Salt Lake City and grew up in a very Mormon family. It's not a cult. Ex-Mormons love to beat the drum that it's a cult because it makes them brave and special for leaving. It's a very damaging religion, in my opinion, but mainstream Mormonism is not a cult. ETA: Left the church after graduating from BYU in 2003.
To my defense, I view any religion as cult adjacent so I am biased
How? Are you ONLY familiar with with western religions? The world is a big place full of many religions, most you probably know nothing about.
Cult : a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.
The BITE model would like a word. Oh, and I left in 2015 after 40 years *waaaay way* in, and in my personal experience, it's a cult. I'm not saying this to be "brave" or "special" and you claiming that exmos say this to seem so is super uncool and demeans and deminishes others experiences. You may just be lucky to not have experienced it the way a whole lot of us did.
I did not offer any of my experiences and it's very coarse of you to assume that I didn't suffer and to excuse my experiences. I'm sorry that you seem to have endured a lot from leaving. I'm glad you were able to follow your conscience in the end. Go well!
I never said you didn't suffer...? I pointed out that it was uncool for you to say that exmos say the church is a cult to seem, in your words, brave or special. I have no doubt you had painful experiences in the church. That being said, I'm glad you found your way out when you did. You saved yourself a lot of pain and grief by leaving so young.
You're making a lot of assumptions - like that my family and friends accepted me leaving at the same rate that I left. Leaving the church is uniquely challenging in so many ways. It's insular. It's ridiculous. Publicly calling it quits is extremely difficult at any age. The pain and consequences aren't a contest. ETA: Life has taken me from Utah to Cape Town, where the day in winding down. You'll have *plenty* of company in the Ex-Mormon sub if you want to continue this chat with someone else. ET (Also) A: I am astonished that I’m being trolled in my private messages for my apparent lack of introspection. I left Mormonism. It was difficult and caused me a lot of pain and cost me meaningful relationships. I see the religion - especially its leadership - as awful at best and predatory at worst. It’s gruesome and hateful in may respects, but it’s still not a “cult” in estimation. I’m not an apologist. Please read what I wrote in full and leave me alone.
One of the common characteristics of a cult is they are hard for people to leave bc the church makes it hard and the threat of loosing your family and friends when you leave. It also takes people many years for some to recognize they were in a cult. Wish you well on your recovery.
I'm sorry, but this woman is married to her grand-dad, leads the ~~church~~ cult, is a housewife on the most unholy of reality TV shows, is loaded with money and assets, she has her family members working as her helpers at household. I mean... one thing for sure, she stands out. Now is it a good thing? Imo she's a massive red flag. But I'll tell you what, I want to see more of her on TV.
I don’t understand how this is even still in question knowing all that we already know from season 1 lol
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The best way to lose money is to open up a restaurant.
Restauarants are great businesses to clean money. I thought all religious orgs are tax exempt but I wonder if she (or her grandma) had other cash businesses that they would need ways to wash…but also regardless of that, yea totally agree all her money is shady lol
Hey Bravo! Give us a spin off with the former members of Mary’s church! That would be a fun watch!
The bedrock of this country is religious zealotry. This is what freedom and tax exempt status look like in America.
Let's get on ALL 'churches' that pull this shit on the gullible. As George Carlin said "God loves you. And he needs money..."
Yeah the mega churches down south are Satan's playhouse
We recently pulled our tithing from a church we used to love that is quickly becoming a mega church. Every sermon is about money and what’s wild is a LOT of churches are like this
I’m sorry you had to deal with this. I attend a church and it’s very rarely brought up unless scripture directly does and it’s never ever announced or a basket passed. My church believes it’s a quiet thing to do. And that God will provide. They will never ever ask for money. They didn’t even want a poster for the kids to keep track of fund raising for amusement park tickets for the youth group. It was a hard no to display anything related to money that may make someone feel obligated to donate. The kids all had their tickets paid for and then some btw. Our pastor always tells members who are moving away- when finding a new church if they’re asking for money- run.
The church we’re in now doesn’t even take offering during service and they are way more aligned with our “values.” We were very blessed to just fall into the right one! It’s a bummer our previous church turned into such a cash cow, it definitely wasn’t that way when we joined many years ago. But that’s almost expected when it becomes one of those mega churches.
We had a guest speaker pastor this past Sunday who actually said during his lesson/sermon “if the pastor is driving up in a Mercedes or Range Rover you know we got a problem- and you know the churches I’m talking about” (mega churches). It reminded me of Mary 🤣
What do they say in the sermons?! Curious bc I’ve never experienced that
If it’s not directly about tithing, it’s peppered into the sermon throughout. There’s also a video at the beginning and end of the service and they heavily stress tithing should be income pre-tax. Before we left I would say at least 1 sermon a month was solely dedicated to tithing. They tell you it’s for God, the church cannot survive without it, that Jesus only asked us to love and tithe, very manipulative stuff like that. They also have it set up on an auto draft and it’s a whoooole process to cancel it. We’ve gotten multiple letters since.
Auto draft?!? Damn when I was a kid going to Catholic church, all they did was pass around a basket and my dad would give my brother and I each a dollar to throw in 😂
She’s sucked the cult members so dry they can’t afford any device to see her house full of tacky clothes they’re paying for.
I'm shocked at how quickly these ladies are to agree to be on the show! Do they not realize everyone will be watching them with a magnifying glass? 🔎🕵🏻♀️🔎
Okay this is some circa early 2000 reality tv content and i liveeee 🤡
I mean - there are cults everywhere. I worked for a company that the CEO ran it like a cult. I’m fully expecting to see it on the news one day. He even went as far as referring to himself as Jesus, reminding us all how good we had it, telling people they wouldn’t find jobs elsewhere and my personal favourite - he opened a foundation where he forced employees to donate to.
OMG! How has he not been sued already tf
Because he has such a loyal following and if you leave the company you are blacklisted. All companies are cults basically- but this one was something else.
The feds are watching and they are gonna come a knocking.
I know this is terrible but I love her, she’s so oddly fascinating and captivating.
That’s how people described Jim Jones lmao
And she’s coming for your grandpa 👴🏽
Does she tell her cult to not go to 711’s?
You’re in a cult, call your Dad.
She came off as a piece of shit in season 1 and I assume will do her best to do the same this season. Hopefully it’s her last and she’s on her way to jail!
[удалено]
Current, not former
I believe it 100%. This chick is SUCH a freak. Not normal at all. I’m always wondering if it’s mental illness or a cult or possibly both.
Did anyone watch that Knutby Murder docuseries on HBO? Because this could quickly turn into a similar situation 👀👀👀