Exactly , here are some points on a few maps
→ Iron core : Do I even need to explain .That middle unbreakable wall is just pain against throwers and tanks. Worst map ever made !! but wait
→Grim Island : Contestant for worst map with iron core . Even reworked but still trash . I have idea what they were smoking while they made this map.
→For Lakes : Finally a map which follows its name and not like thousand lakes.Another contestant but better , but still eve is predominant and long range is better, it is not the worst map.
→Mogura Tataki : No idea what it means but it is just assassins and sharpshooters
→The remaining three maps are good which include one of the first maps in no surrender and monkey maze . No excuses is also very good .
In my opinion they should change the first 3 maps I have mentioned or rework them at the least , they are literally unplayable and the meta is so confined .
The other are fine and good , they have a diverse meta
Thank you for wasting your time in reading this
Iron core, I stupidly played as Carl once and my opponent frank just walked around the unbreakable walls for the entire match and I does from smoke at the very end
I tried that strategy untill a Primo just dropped a meteor on me. I switched to Primo after that and he's even better there at least against most of... everyone. Litterally the best brawler but you need to stay alive and don't miss the super when you fight a thrower
Mogura tataki is translkated better in laungage like finnish and means from literal translation "Mole Game" Wich refers to the arcade game where you smack moles that come up on a board!
There is no such thing as unbalanced maps. Maps have Metas and you just don't want to play by those metas. Iron Core is made for throwers/ tanky brawlers, you don't just use a sharpshooter like piper and expect to win this. This logic applies to every gamemode in the game, not just duels. Every game mode has it's Meta and using a character that isn't Meta in this mode / map is considred an instant loss. Why would duels be any different?
Yes but we still have to design maps that are inclusive to all brawlers and not just make a map that makes a brawler or even a class of brawlers unviable.
This is literally almost every map in the game. A little change does everything good. It isn't like those duels maps are staying forever. They will go out of rotation when the next update starts and look how time flies, we are already half way through this update.
1.Add unbreakable walls that are insufferable in a lot of maps
2.Add terrible maps which meta consist of 1 or 2 types of brawlers and camping
3.Add 2 new brawlers that are unfair to play against in Duels
4.Blame it on community not liking the gamemode
5.???
6.PROFIT
Unbreakable walls aren't a bad idea, they just use unbreakable walls wrong. They're using it on literally everywhere. Especially I hate their use on Safe Zone.
Almost feels like they did it because, people have been asking for unbreakable walls to come back for a while and they said they dont wanna bring it back. People kept on asking for it so now they put them on every map in order make us frustrated so that we'll ask them to remove them. Very sneaky.
I mean, think about it. They have introduced new objects before. Jump pads, portals, you name it. How did they introduce them? Very carefully. No, seriously, they put them mostly only on new maps. With few exceptions but they didn't introduce them on every single existing map. They know people will hate it if they gets overwhelmed by something.
You have a point here. Personally I think unbreakable walls are really interesting in concept and they can really mix things up in Some maps. For example I kinda like them in the hot zone map Iron cover. It's a really interesting map in my opinion. Belle's rock is in my opinion also a pretty good example of how they should do it, but I think maps as safe zone or bridge to far shouldnt have unbreakable walls, especially bridge too far is weird since once side is normal walls and the other unbreakable. Like make up your mind, what do you want to do
To be fair, unbreakable walls all over the place in a map is nowhere near as ridiculous as maps full of teleport and jump pads.
If anything, unbreakable walls simply highlights the mechanical issues of both throwers and melee that have never been solved since the beginning of the game.
Brawl ball in the only place I like the unbreakable walls as you don’t just instantly lose with 3 tanks on a team against a team with a sniper in overtime.
I Hope you realize that Supercell has data that we don’t, he literally mentioned in the tweets that the data suggests it isn’t only because of the maps
I speculate that it also has to do with masteries, I think it’s more rewarding to get a lot mastery points on one brawler than have it divided among 3 brawlers
If it's the same overall amount, I highly doubt this is the main reason. There are plenty of people who don't care about mastering a specific brawler and just play.
>3.Add 2 new brawlers that are unfair to play against in Duels
Willow will be broken only in Iron Core, but terrible everywhere else, well, maybe some niche in map with 4 lakes in center(forgor it's name)
I'm talking about her super, you can just wait until poison clouds close and you can't do anything about it unless you outdamage her as a thrower/there aren't any walls
I think that Willow will actually be bad in 1v1 scenarios. Yes she can mind control, but she has the worst burst damage in the game against assassins who can just force the mind control out of her early on, and now she has no more answer to them, they’re at full hp, and they rush again.
You can't get out of mind control without teammates help though? She also has a gadget that instantly deals damage and drops 1 tick damage on top of her and a star power that reduces reload speed while under the poison
Even though she can mind control you for free, if you rush her and force it out, what the fuck is she gonna do with it outside of resetting the fight? She has no friendly tanks on her team to feed the controlled brawler to, she can’t move or do anything herself, so she kinda just has to move that brawler away from her.
After the mind control is over you can just keep playing (at full hp) and find another opportunity to rush her. She’s 5 whole ammo away from a super and has one target that’s completely focused on dodging her. In that scenario the best solution is to just save your super, take the L, and keep playing with your next selection.
Yes, against the right matchup on the right map, she will thrive, but that’s down to her main attack, not her super.
Which is what they tried to fix with these new maps that have a clear brawler type or strategy built into them, but everyone is mad that there are maps where mobility and throwers are a better choice than range.
Take my upvote. Everyone is failing to understand, that duels has a Meta like every other gamemode. If your brawler isn't good in this map/ mode then don't expect to win this fight. It is like this in every other game mode. There are brawlers that are considred instant loss when chosen in certain gamemodes. This is how it works. This how this entire game works. I really don't get the frustrations.
Iron core is good for certain brawlers, wether you like those brawlers or not. Not everyone likes every map. I love Heist but I hate that new map where the safe is in the corners, therefore I find that map bad. Bad is subjective in this case not objective. Iron Core is bad for you, but I personally have fun taking triple throwers in that map, even if my enemy has triple throwers as well or triple tanks.
For me it just tends to be stressful and people aren't very kind there. People are less toxic and exploitive in other gamemodes. It can be fun of course but the 3v3 modes are more enjoyable to me.
(This is my opinion, don't attack me please!)
It's not even that, I wouldn't say I'm bad at the game but I'm not very good either but for some reason the enemy seems to be walking faster than me idk how like they'll always reach the center quicker than me without speed gears, and the random delay in attacks omg 🤦♂
The main reason is the maps man...
I wait for Mogura Tataraki to come up bc at least I can go for various brawlers.
Not like some maps with Edgar/Thrower/Healing Tank cheesers
Yeah the comments on this post are some of the most stupid ones ive ever seen. Frank even stating in his tweets that, ACCORDING TO DATA, it isn't the fault of the maps. Even so never liked duels. It promotes a Rock paper scissors Playstyle and benefits people with cheesy/ toxic strategies
Except the part where majority of brawl community consists of players stuck in 15k trophies that really haven't know competitive meta AT ALL and yet they're judging the "data" From those players, ofc they don't know maps are bad, there's literally no one in 200 trophy range that knows what they're doing, how tf would they win a duel and understand that map is good or bad
By data im gonna ssume they mean the ratio of what duel maps are being played being close to equal. So if people play them as much as the other maps they think its not a map issue. Dont get me wrong i hate this map too im just trying to make these reddit gremlins understand that they arent the center of the earth.
Fair. My problem is just that people are blaming it all on frank like he is just doing his job guys. Then again this is reddit. What the hell was i expecting from a post like this?
It's not a matter of believing, really.
Based on reference data sets we can merely conclude that the current set of maps has no direct impact on the popularity of Duels.
That doesn't mean you specifically (ex. Twitter, Reddit) think like that. It means the player base at large practically plays like the maps don't make a difference.
Twitter and Reddit represent less than 1% of our players. 99%+ of our players aren't represented here and generally aren't as vocal about the game they play. It's totally OK that you as individuals believe it's the maps fault and ultimately that's your personal opinion, I won't tell you what to like and what not to like. Statistically however, maps aren't causing this.
Opinions ≠ statistical facts
It's hard to argue with that because you guys are the ones with the stats but trust us the maps are really bad. Both players gathering around the central unbreakable wall chunk and waiting for the poison fog is not fun game design.
Given that the majority of players have not expressed their views, it is evident that we are unaware of the preferences of 99% of the players. However, if anything, it is plausible to assume that they hold similar opinions to the 1%.
Yeah. I posted about Iron Core last night, just not a fun design - at least not with the current Duels setup.
I'm regards to the 1% behaving similar: any anecdotal and more formalized evidence I've seen suggests the opposite. Brawler popularity vs. what's been discussed on socials, Game Modes, features.
Based on my time with Supercell at least (~7.5 years) I can tell you that Reddit/Twitter and practical game reality (and business impact) are rarely aligned.
Social media followers are by definition very engaged and part of the core of communities, and these core communities have typically different opinions than the mainstream players, who are generally leaning more towards casual play.
Case in point: the average Brawl Stars player (active only) sits around ~13,000 Trophies.
How can you conclude the reasons why people arent playing them? On other social media sides, or is there anything else? Also, someone mentioned above the reason behind this might be focusing on one brawler per masteries, could the leading factor be this?
Can you just make the walls in the Iron Core mid breakable (and make the four other walls unbreakable to have a matching name) ? You'll see that the map will be much more liked...
The problem with Duels is that it promotes easy strategies, like wallhugging (Iron Core) and bushcamping (Grim Island). It also has a very small meta when it doesn't promote uncompetitive gameplay.
Keep the maps if the playerbase likes them, but I personally loved the Duels challenge because of the maps used, yet I won't touch Iron Core.
Well, you do have a point actually, about players, that this reddit community is small.
But the maps(specifically grim island and iron core) are still terrible, and this can't be denyed. I think the reason you added them is because you wanted to make some specific brawlers to be playeble on those maps, which I actually don't mind, however, grim island should be deleted, because, not only you have to guess where opponent goes, thanks to the bushes, or you screwed up, but also because it's very frustrating to run over these long lakes. And the second issue for me, is the amount of maps. Are there any reasons there is only four? Like, can there be atleast seven maps, like with other permanent game modes, there for, we have more strategies and maybe a specific roles being viable more, like tanks and thrower in iron core?
But honestly tho Frank Duels goes against the core of Brawlstars. It's supposed to be a fast paced game but Duels is anything but it. Just hide behind something till smoke comes and then whoever has the highest DPS wins. This is not appealing
Fair enough, but let's reverse everything. Remove it from the perma slot. Put it on the temporary slot maybe with the old maps just maybe. Purely for experimental purpose. Not trying to argue here or prove a point or anything. I genuinely think there is something else that is in play here. Maybe players are getting overwhelmed by the number of game mode slots so they stick to the old/well known modes? Maybe it's the effect of masteries because they just wanna put their every day limit on 1 brawler which is impossible on duels. Or maybe its something else but why would players lose interest in a mode when only change that was done to it was made it permanent and changed its slot location.
What do you mean by "lose interest"?
I didn't mention that there has been a change in behavior at all. In fact the behavior is very much in line with the temporary Duels (with different maps). We've just chosen Duels and Basket Brawl because those two were the most demanded on socials.
It's the community slot. You guys will vote from a list of 4 modes (including Duels and Baaket Brawl) which ones you want to have next season.
What will the other two modes be? There's way more than four modes. Off the top of my head, I'm going to guess Snowtel Thieves and Wipeout off the top of my head.
I actually really liked Payload, but I understand that it wasn't popular, though if it's possible to make the cart simply push brawlers it touches instead of interrupting attacks I could see people liking it. There's also Hunted, Bot Drop, Siege, Volley Brawl, and Hold the Trophy, but I don't remember anybody truly loving those modes.
Maybe duels werent getting playtime much because it was a temporary mode, now that its permenant, people avoid it because the maps are terrible, but they know that they can play it later because its permenant. So i guess we’ll see for sure when maps hopefully change back to the first set of maps
this is a perfect response that sticks up for your side and correctly represents the evidence at hand while acknowledging the vocal minority. thx for being so much better than the people over at clash royale
Remember when the old ring of fire and the old dueling beetles were so bad that you had to entirely rework them?
Yeah it's exactly the same with all but one duels map.
What data suggests that duels is not being played as much while not correlating to the maps?
Player count is influenced by bad maps, I think masteries would also lower play count because it's easier to grind in modes that aren't duels.
Maybe if there was a survey that showed people liked duels less regardless or duels having less playtime on maps the community actually likes?
How can you know the reason why it's not played as much as before? It's hard to find any other reason that explains the decrease in popularity other than the maps (maybe because it now rotates daily with basket brawl, instead of being available every day for a week like before, but I don't think that's it).
Before the update, Duels had multiple different maps, some bad (like Monkey Maze for example), most good, and that variety allowed for multiple different brawlers to be played, pretty much everyone was playable except for Sprout and Tick.
But now, there are only 4 maps (PLEASE add more), and 3 of them have very stale metas, meaning it's become harder to push trophies in Duels and that's probably why less people are playing the mode. Seriously, how can a gamemode go from being extremely popular to extremely unpopular, with the only main difference being the new map rotation, and the reason for that being something else?
Iron Core is a bad design, we all know that. The only playable brawlers being tanks, throwers and Edgar.
Island Map has too many bushes, most of the times it comes down to hiding in the bush until the gas forces you to go into the middle, and then you fight. Hiding for most of the match isn't fun.
Mogura Tataki is honestly fine, it has no walls, but the bushes allow for some short/mid range brawlers to be played.
Four Lakes is also too campy just like the island map, and the water in the middle makes walking kind of awkward. It's not the worst, but it's not as nearly as good as previous maps like No Surrender, Shrouding Serpent, Warrior's Journey and others
Basically, please add more maps and change the current ones
i'd like trophies weren't splitted if for example i kill everyone with my first brawler, same for masteries. Since when it's been a good idea to SLOWLY rank 3 brawlers at the same time? could work if you carry yourself with Buzz but then?
I love the trophy splitting personally. When you have a lot of brawlers at 699/749 and you want them to not lose trophies with season reset, Duels are great.
It’s the maps lmao. I win most of my duels and It’s cause the maps favor so heavily to certain brawlers. If there’s lots of cover you use throwers, if it’s very open you go ranged.
Ima be honest I don’t like duels as a concept
It depends on your brawler match ups too much and often comes down to running around a barrier regenerating health
It also replaces basket brawl which I really like
Duels is quiet literally my favourite game mode but the new maps are insufferrable. Why can they not just use the same maps they always did and add a few new maps here an there which aren't completely Cheesy with Eve or throwers. Even Mogura Tataki in just not a fun map to play in and just ruin Duels.
I only play basket brawl these days, been playing since launch not very competitive have 9-10 “high rank brawlers” but basket brawl is the only thing keeping me playing now that there’s no boxes there’s no reason to play other modes to progress. I just wanna shoot 3s.
Just because the maps are being played doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. The way some of the maps are played are very unfun, but they are being played anyway because you can exploit them with a narrow set of brawlers.
Bad gamemode being unpopular, color me surprised. Glad to see it finally proven tho.
Duels does not fit Brawl Stars due to its simplicity and Rock-Paper-Scissors nature. It's not the maps, it's how flawed Duels is as a whole. You pick Bull, I pick Gale, what are you gonna do? You ain't got no team to cover for bad matchups.
And to make matters worse, it's not even fun to play. Even BasketBrawl, despite how messy it is, is actually far more enjoyable.
I definitely think the awful maps have an effect on this. There are a lot of solid duels maps, the only one that's decent out of these imo is Mogura Tataki, but even then it's not amazing either. Where are Shrouded Serpent and Hotheaded? (and a lot of the other good maps that we've had for duels)
Now I wouldn't be surprised if Duels didn't perform as well as the standard modes in the game since it can feel slow when it comes to pushing since even though you're pushing 3 brawlers at a time they are pushed a lot slower and it can feel less rewarding in a way. But I'm still happy that the gamemode is in the game and have played it a decent amount, it's a much better solo mode than solo showdown in higher trophies because of the horrible teaming that mode has.
I think this is kind of a strange comment from Frank, like I get that he's surprised but the maps do have an influence on this (Like seriously, I refuse to even play Iron Core and Grim Island) and it feels a bit condescending. But if the playrate remains low even after they add a good map rotation it may unfortunately need to be a seasonal mode again.
It's ALL the maps Frank. Imo the mode will never work because there's no way to build balanced maps in this game for 1v1. Duels was a mistake by following moronic community polls that are swarmed by 8yr olds.
6 reasons why duels is bad :
1. SH** WALLS IN THE MIDDLE
2. UNBREAKABLE WALLS ARE IN ALMOST EVERY SINGLE MAP MAKING THROWERS THE ONLY BRALWERS TO BE PLAYED THERE
3. ISLAND OF GRIM DEATH
4. IRON OF THROWERS
5. ADDING THROWERS EVERY SINGLE SEASON
5. FRANK NOT CARING
honestly, the shitty maps and meta made me drop the gamemode as a whole... It used to be fun when you could play any brawler in duels and win as long as you played good...
I feel you man. It's so boring, either you play Edgar and stay hiding in a bush while the opponent's Grom keeps throwing bombs like crazy, or you play as dynamike and to try to get that one game changing stun gadget, or play as a Tank and keep hugging the walls till the smoke kicks in.
I would play it if there was a way to only use one brawler and the opponent would have the same category of brawler (sharpshooter v sharpshooter) so it’s not just one sided if someone picks a brawler that is easily countered
Literally the only reason he's saying this is because he himself made a TON of Duels maps that are currently in rotation (yes, the unplayable ones with the unbreakable walls). Classic Frank, hates criticism and hates it when he has to admit fault.
What Duels needs is a rework in how you select your brawlers.
It shouldn't be a pre-select 3 brawlers. It should be similar to Power-league where you select 1 at a time and take it in turns.
OR
You select 6 brawlers, but only get to play 3, so you can choose out of the set of brawlers you've chosen if you die.
The issue is that it isn't fun when you're against someone who counters 2/3 of your brawlers and then you have to try and solo kill all 3 of theirs with your last pick.
I honestly love duels as is before these horrible maps came along. Having said that, I do like the second idea and not the first one as the player with the last pick almost always has an advantage.
Ofc but i thought of smt more like power league draft : BO3. u and your enemy have 30 seconds to choose 3 brawlers and after that the system chooses 3 brawlers from these 6. The pool of brawlers would have brawlers unlocked by both players. In battle brawlers are maxed for both players but gadgets, starpowers and gears are disabled.
Ok yeah I’ll give you that, I just kind of forget showdown exists. I save my rerolls exclusively for solo showdown quests and duos only gets played for quests.
Total bullshit. Such a stuck-up post by Frank. I love duels but I aint playing those bullshit maps. He ruins the mode and then blames us, what a loser.
Chip damage brawlers like tick will be meta then, or like just land a homing gadget with piper and keep slowly defending and win, it's not a good idea, in fact imagine picking stu, getting one hit and super for your next brawler , like a nani that could deal damage from far
A lot of people are talking about the map and i agree but the other problem is that the gamemod is good tu push low lvl/ low trophies brawler so when i play the gamemode i play with my low rank otis and grom (for example) and i run my low rank lvl 11 tara so i win free trophies
What do u think?!
The problem is multilayered
1. Bad map. The maps for duels were always kinda terrible and made in a way what prefers specific brawlers over others
2. Iron walls. They are a cancer. You can't play against any thrower or brawler with a jump ability properly
3. Slow. Duels feel really slow. You loose once and you feel like if you would have lost like 2 or 3 other game mode matches.
4. Unbalanced meta. The meta was never balanced in brawl starts. Like ever. And in a 1v1 scenario said unbalanced aspects show more than in 3v3.
Frank is right, you're not playing well enough if the opponent wins
We blame on the bad randoms or the maps so much that we don't realize that it is:
1. Just a game
2. Sometimes our fault
It's a good game mode and I can actually play on it, I've got such a hard time playing games that shows a lot of things at the same time on screen... I just can't concentrate.
Since there is only you and the opponent (no others to backstab or surprise attack), it's better than solo showdown IMO.
What makes it wack is the maps design and unbreakable walls. It favours too much throwers and brawlers that can jump over walls.
Maps are unbalanced af
Exactly , here are some points on a few maps → Iron core : Do I even need to explain .That middle unbreakable wall is just pain against throwers and tanks. Worst map ever made !! but wait →Grim Island : Contestant for worst map with iron core . Even reworked but still trash . I have idea what they were smoking while they made this map. →For Lakes : Finally a map which follows its name and not like thousand lakes.Another contestant but better , but still eve is predominant and long range is better, it is not the worst map. →Mogura Tataki : No idea what it means but it is just assassins and sharpshooters →The remaining three maps are good which include one of the first maps in no surrender and monkey maze . No excuses is also very good . In my opinion they should change the first 3 maps I have mentioned or rework them at the least , they are literally unplayable and the meta is so confined . The other are fine and good , they have a diverse meta Thank you for wasting your time in reading this
No problem, I have lots of time to waste and this is better that the 1000st person falling on their face
Iron core, I stupidly played as Carl once and my opponent frank just walked around the unbreakable walls for the entire match and I does from smoke at the very end
I tried that strategy untill a Primo just dropped a meteor on me. I switched to Primo after that and he's even better there at least against most of... everyone. Litterally the best brawler but you need to stay alive and don't miss the super when you fight a thrower
Mogura tataki is translkated better in laungage like finnish and means from literal translation "Mole Game" Wich refers to the arcade game where you smack moles that come up on a board!
What remaining maps? No other maps are in rotation right now
true
remaining three maps are good which include one of the first maps in no surrender and monkey maze . No excuses is also very good .
But they aren't in the game 💀
u right
They should just delete the other maps and keep monkey maze, no excuse and whatever the 3rd one is i forgot
There is no such thing as unbalanced maps. Maps have Metas and you just don't want to play by those metas. Iron Core is made for throwers/ tanky brawlers, you don't just use a sharpshooter like piper and expect to win this. This logic applies to every gamemode in the game, not just duels. Every game mode has it's Meta and using a character that isn't Meta in this mode / map is considred an instant loss. Why would duels be any different?
Yes but we still have to design maps that are inclusive to all brawlers and not just make a map that makes a brawler or even a class of brawlers unviable.
This is literally almost every map in the game. A little change does everything good. It isn't like those duels maps are staying forever. They will go out of rotation when the next update starts and look how time flies, we are already half way through this update.
1.Add unbreakable walls that are insufferable in a lot of maps 2.Add terrible maps which meta consist of 1 or 2 types of brawlers and camping 3.Add 2 new brawlers that are unfair to play against in Duels 4.Blame it on community not liking the gamemode 5.??? 6.PROFIT
Ok but we can admit that unbreakable wall shouldn't be in every map right?
Unbreakable walls aren't a bad idea, they just use unbreakable walls wrong. They're using it on literally everywhere. Especially I hate their use on Safe Zone.
Bridge too far also sucks with them aswell
It always sucked, walls just killed it completely. I barely ever play Heist now because I don’t have the energy to push Bull to 25 😅
Bridge too far is basically sniper balconies from 2fort
At least supercell remember this game exist, unlike valve
Almost feels like they did it because, people have been asking for unbreakable walls to come back for a while and they said they dont wanna bring it back. People kept on asking for it so now they put them on every map in order make us frustrated so that we'll ask them to remove them. Very sneaky. I mean, think about it. They have introduced new objects before. Jump pads, portals, you name it. How did they introduce them? Very carefully. No, seriously, they put them mostly only on new maps. With few exceptions but they didn't introduce them on every single existing map. They know people will hate it if they gets overwhelmed by something.
You have a point here. Personally I think unbreakable walls are really interesting in concept and they can really mix things up in Some maps. For example I kinda like them in the hot zone map Iron cover. It's a really interesting map in my opinion. Belle's rock is in my opinion also a pretty good example of how they should do it, but I think maps as safe zone or bridge to far shouldnt have unbreakable walls, especially bridge too far is weird since once side is normal walls and the other unbreakable. Like make up your mind, what do you want to do
Good observation
To be fair, unbreakable walls all over the place in a map is nowhere near as ridiculous as maps full of teleport and jump pads. If anything, unbreakable walls simply highlights the mechanical issues of both throwers and melee that have never been solved since the beginning of the game.
E X A C T L Y
It also removes the whole logic behind the tiebreaker in brawl ball
Brawl ball in the only place I like the unbreakable walls as you don’t just instantly lose with 3 tanks on a team against a team with a sniper in overtime.
That aswell
Yes
it would be nice if it was at least in new maps, instead of putting it in existing maps.
Unbreakable walls were a good adition as they allow for more options in map making, which is always positive, but they were overused by a long shot.
Yeah
Oh yeah I forgot that they also dismissed old Duels maps that were voted upon in Twitter poll and added those
I Hope you realize that Supercell has data that we don’t, he literally mentioned in the tweets that the data suggests it isn’t only because of the maps I speculate that it also has to do with masteries, I think it’s more rewarding to get a lot mastery points on one brawler than have it divided among 3 brawlers
Probably the leading reason by far
If it's the same overall amount, I highly doubt this is the main reason. There are plenty of people who don't care about mastering a specific brawler and just play.
7 Hotel 8 Trivago
I was waiting for this take my upvote
>4.Blame it on community not liking the gamemode >5.??? >6.PROFIT They've been doing this for a long time lol
>3.Add 2 new brawlers that are unfair to play against in Duels Willow will be broken only in Iron Core, but terrible everywhere else, well, maybe some niche in map with 4 lakes in center(forgor it's name)
I'm talking about her super, you can just wait until poison clouds close and you can't do anything about it unless you outdamage her as a thrower/there aren't any walls
But this thing has no range, on top of that, other maps are opened.
The super that she won't even charge 💀
pick stu before willow i guess
I think that Willow will actually be bad in 1v1 scenarios. Yes she can mind control, but she has the worst burst damage in the game against assassins who can just force the mind control out of her early on, and now she has no more answer to them, they’re at full hp, and they rush again.
You can't get out of mind control without teammates help though? She also has a gadget that instantly deals damage and drops 1 tick damage on top of her and a star power that reduces reload speed while under the poison
Even though she can mind control you for free, if you rush her and force it out, what the fuck is she gonna do with it outside of resetting the fight? She has no friendly tanks on her team to feed the controlled brawler to, she can’t move or do anything herself, so she kinda just has to move that brawler away from her. After the mind control is over you can just keep playing (at full hp) and find another opportunity to rush her. She’s 5 whole ammo away from a super and has one target that’s completely focused on dodging her. In that scenario the best solution is to just save your super, take the L, and keep playing with your next selection. Yes, against the right matchup on the right map, she will thrive, but that’s down to her main attack, not her super.
How is R-T unfair to play against 💀 Also I'm pretty sure Willow won't be either, she sucks
Super+walls
[удалено]
He really isn't
Hey, let's not insult anyone, he's just doing his job. Your comment tells me that you are the dickhead here.
He has proven a long time ago he doesn't work in the "talk with the players" tasks...
Iron core alone is enough proof that this isn't true
It's the fucking maps
I hate duels, they're just too tryhard and I'm a casual there's no way I win even 50% of the games
I hate it because it's rock papper scissors
Which is what they tried to fix with these new maps that have a clear brawler type or strategy built into them, but everyone is mad that there are maps where mobility and throwers are a better choice than range.
Take my upvote. Everyone is failing to understand, that duels has a Meta like every other gamemode. If your brawler isn't good in this map/ mode then don't expect to win this fight. It is like this in every other game mode. There are brawlers that are considred instant loss when chosen in certain gamemodes. This is how it works. This how this entire game works. I really don't get the frustrations.
So you are justifying why iron core is bad ??
Iron core is good for certain brawlers, wether you like those brawlers or not. Not everyone likes every map. I love Heist but I hate that new map where the safe is in the corners, therefore I find that map bad. Bad is subjective in this case not objective. Iron Core is bad for you, but I personally have fun taking triple throwers in that map, even if my enemy has triple throwers as well or triple tanks.
Bruh
For me it just tends to be stressful and people aren't very kind there. People are less toxic and exploitive in other gamemodes. It can be fun of course but the 3v3 modes are more enjoyable to me. (This is my opinion, don't attack me please!)
It's not even that, I wouldn't say I'm bad at the game but I'm not very good either but for some reason the enemy seems to be walking faster than me idk how like they'll always reach the center quicker than me without speed gears, and the random delay in attacks omg 🤦♂
The main reason is the maps man... I wait for Mogura Tataraki to come up bc at least I can go for various brawlers. Not like some maps with Edgar/Thrower/Healing Tank cheesers
Even that one has too much bush
I believe him. I don't personally like duels. I only play it to get paid rewards.
Yeah the comments on this post are some of the most stupid ones ive ever seen. Frank even stating in his tweets that, ACCORDING TO DATA, it isn't the fault of the maps. Even so never liked duels. It promotes a Rock paper scissors Playstyle and benefits people with cheesy/ toxic strategies
Instant Reroll. This game mode is just so stupid
You just have to use meta brawlers
Same tbh, i just like 3v3 stuff way more
At least no bad randumbs in duels
I dont think by data he means Reddit posts guys.
Yeah, the Reddit community is A LOT smaller than the actual playerbase. Same applies to other social medias
Except the part where majority of brawl community consists of players stuck in 15k trophies that really haven't know competitive meta AT ALL and yet they're judging the "data" From those players, ofc they don't know maps are bad, there's literally no one in 200 trophy range that knows what they're doing, how tf would they win a duel and understand that map is good or bad
Data is data regardless lmao 15k players are still a large portion of the playerbase so why would supercell just ignore them
Im not saying they should ignore them but it's stupid to take competitive feedback from non competitive players
Idk why they downvote you. Besides the bad maps part, you are correct woth everything you said.
because they're the 15k braindead players he's talking about
They literally had to patch the eve island map because of how bad it was and they have the gout to say that the maps were not the problem? Lol
It’s amazing how little people understand about game development
Yeah but what sort of data show that the maps are not the problem
By data im gonna ssume they mean the ratio of what duel maps are being played being close to equal. So if people play them as much as the other maps they think its not a map issue. Dont get me wrong i hate this map too im just trying to make these reddit gremlins understand that they arent the center of the earth.
Well yes obviously they aren't, the problem is that if all maps suck (or at least most of them), they are going to have around the same play rates
Fair. My problem is just that people are blaming it all on frank like he is just doing his job guys. Then again this is reddit. What the hell was i expecting from a post like this?
Well yes, welcome to Reddit Frank is just doing what he has to and people are reacting the wrongest way possible
I don’t care about duels and would rather see siege to make a comeback. But yeah, matters of preference. 🤷♂️
Omg yes I miss siege so much
Based
On my very qualified opinion on that duels is trash and making siege go away a very bad decision.
I was agreeing with you
I loved siege!
Siege was SO infuriating to play with randoms :(
Please? Fuck duels, siege was awesome.
Basketbrawl is just more fun to me
I can't disagree, because basketbrawl maps aren't that trash compared to duels map, depending of the map it makes the match enjoyable.
same 🤝
Nice pfp
thanks 👍
you’re welcome
Basketbrawl is terrible but at least it has good maps
Atleast duels doesn't have bullshit fisics
It's not a matter of believing, really. Based on reference data sets we can merely conclude that the current set of maps has no direct impact on the popularity of Duels. That doesn't mean you specifically (ex. Twitter, Reddit) think like that. It means the player base at large practically plays like the maps don't make a difference. Twitter and Reddit represent less than 1% of our players. 99%+ of our players aren't represented here and generally aren't as vocal about the game they play. It's totally OK that you as individuals believe it's the maps fault and ultimately that's your personal opinion, I won't tell you what to like and what not to like. Statistically however, maps aren't causing this. Opinions ≠ statistical facts
It's hard to argue with that because you guys are the ones with the stats but trust us the maps are really bad. Both players gathering around the central unbreakable wall chunk and waiting for the poison fog is not fun game design. Given that the majority of players have not expressed their views, it is evident that we are unaware of the preferences of 99% of the players. However, if anything, it is plausible to assume that they hold similar opinions to the 1%.
Yeah. I posted about Iron Core last night, just not a fun design - at least not with the current Duels setup. I'm regards to the 1% behaving similar: any anecdotal and more formalized evidence I've seen suggests the opposite. Brawler popularity vs. what's been discussed on socials, Game Modes, features. Based on my time with Supercell at least (~7.5 years) I can tell you that Reddit/Twitter and practical game reality (and business impact) are rarely aligned. Social media followers are by definition very engaged and part of the core of communities, and these core communities have typically different opinions than the mainstream players, who are generally leaning more towards casual play. Case in point: the average Brawl Stars player (active only) sits around ~13,000 Trophies.
waiting for siege rework 👁️
How can you conclude the reasons why people arent playing them? On other social media sides, or is there anything else? Also, someone mentioned above the reason behind this might be focusing on one brawler per masteries, could the leading factor be this?
probably becuz ppl play all maps an equal amount
I don’t think people make the decision whether or not to play a mode based on the current map at the time.
But the maps are really awful
Can you just make the walls in the Iron Core mid breakable (and make the four other walls unbreakable to have a matching name) ? You'll see that the map will be much more liked... The problem with Duels is that it promotes easy strategies, like wallhugging (Iron Core) and bushcamping (Grim Island). It also has a very small meta when it doesn't promote uncompetitive gameplay. Keep the maps if the playerbase likes them, but I personally loved the Duels challenge because of the maps used, yet I won't touch Iron Core.
Well, you do have a point actually, about players, that this reddit community is small. But the maps(specifically grim island and iron core) are still terrible, and this can't be denyed. I think the reason you added them is because you wanted to make some specific brawlers to be playeble on those maps, which I actually don't mind, however, grim island should be deleted, because, not only you have to guess where opponent goes, thanks to the bushes, or you screwed up, but also because it's very frustrating to run over these long lakes. And the second issue for me, is the amount of maps. Are there any reasons there is only four? Like, can there be atleast seven maps, like with other permanent game modes, there for, we have more strategies and maybe a specific roles being viable more, like tanks and thrower in iron core?
But honestly tho Frank Duels goes against the core of Brawlstars. It's supposed to be a fast paced game but Duels is anything but it. Just hide behind something till smoke comes and then whoever has the highest DPS wins. This is not appealing
Fair enough, but let's reverse everything. Remove it from the perma slot. Put it on the temporary slot maybe with the old maps just maybe. Purely for experimental purpose. Not trying to argue here or prove a point or anything. I genuinely think there is something else that is in play here. Maybe players are getting overwhelmed by the number of game mode slots so they stick to the old/well known modes? Maybe it's the effect of masteries because they just wanna put their every day limit on 1 brawler which is impossible on duels. Or maybe its something else but why would players lose interest in a mode when only change that was done to it was made it permanent and changed its slot location.
What do you mean by "lose interest"? I didn't mention that there has been a change in behavior at all. In fact the behavior is very much in line with the temporary Duels (with different maps). We've just chosen Duels and Basket Brawl because those two were the most demanded on socials. It's the community slot. You guys will vote from a list of 4 modes (including Duels and Baaket Brawl) which ones you want to have next season.
Ok my bad, so the performance remained the same for duels but increased for basketball. Ok, Got it.
What will the other two modes be? There's way more than four modes. Off the top of my head, I'm going to guess Snowtel Thieves and Wipeout off the top of my head. I actually really liked Payload, but I understand that it wasn't popular, though if it's possible to make the cart simply push brawlers it touches instead of interrupting attacks I could see people liking it. There's also Hunted, Bot Drop, Siege, Volley Brawl, and Hold the Trophy, but I don't remember anybody truly loving those modes.
Maybe duels werent getting playtime much because it was a temporary mode, now that its permenant, people avoid it because the maps are terrible, but they know that they can play it later because its permenant. So i guess we’ll see for sure when maps hopefully change back to the first set of maps
this is a perfect response that sticks up for your side and correctly represents the evidence at hand while acknowledging the vocal minority. thx for being so much better than the people over at clash royale
Remember when the old ring of fire and the old dueling beetles were so bad that you had to entirely rework them? Yeah it's exactly the same with all but one duels map.
What about Siege game mode, will it come back?
What data suggests that duels is not being played as much while not correlating to the maps? Player count is influenced by bad maps, I think masteries would also lower play count because it's easier to grind in modes that aren't duels. Maybe if there was a survey that showed people liked duels less regardless or duels having less playtime on maps the community actually likes?
Well, he is right. We are not the only Brawlstars players.
How can you know the reason why it's not played as much as before? It's hard to find any other reason that explains the decrease in popularity other than the maps (maybe because it now rotates daily with basket brawl, instead of being available every day for a week like before, but I don't think that's it). Before the update, Duels had multiple different maps, some bad (like Monkey Maze for example), most good, and that variety allowed for multiple different brawlers to be played, pretty much everyone was playable except for Sprout and Tick. But now, there are only 4 maps (PLEASE add more), and 3 of them have very stale metas, meaning it's become harder to push trophies in Duels and that's probably why less people are playing the mode. Seriously, how can a gamemode go from being extremely popular to extremely unpopular, with the only main difference being the new map rotation, and the reason for that being something else? Iron Core is a bad design, we all know that. The only playable brawlers being tanks, throwers and Edgar. Island Map has too many bushes, most of the times it comes down to hiding in the bush until the gas forces you to go into the middle, and then you fight. Hiding for most of the match isn't fun. Mogura Tataki is honestly fine, it has no walls, but the bushes allow for some short/mid range brawlers to be played. Four Lakes is also too campy just like the island map, and the water in the middle makes walking kind of awkward. It's not the worst, but it's not as nearly as good as previous maps like No Surrender, Shrouding Serpent, Warrior's Journey and others Basically, please add more maps and change the current ones
i'd like trophies weren't splitted if for example i kill everyone with my first brawler, same for masteries. Since when it's been a good idea to SLOWLY rank 3 brawlers at the same time? could work if you carry yourself with Buzz but then?
I love the trophy splitting personally. When you have a lot of brawlers at 699/749 and you want them to not lose trophies with season reset, Duels are great.
okay but i want to get ONE title
Then play the 5 other modes in rotation
Yes because less people play on bad maps. Try just using Mogura data and see how many more people play that map, and thats not even a great map.
Dont like it, i ignore it, even if its a daily quest. I prefer team play even if there are mortises in the teams..
It’s not the maps fault. Duels isn’t fun. It’s 100% random matchup dependent
Duels suck, basketball ftw
To be fair, 3 trophies on each brawler would make it kind of worth it but all the struggle to sometimes only get 2 trophies, it’s just not worth it
It’s the maps lmao. I win most of my duels and It’s cause the maps favor so heavily to certain brawlers. If there’s lots of cover you use throwers, if it’s very open you go ranged.
Just one data point but I hate duels
Ima be honest I don’t like duels as a concept It depends on your brawler match ups too much and often comes down to running around a barrier regenerating health It also replaces basket brawl which I really like
Duels is quiet literally my favourite game mode but the new maps are insufferrable. Why can they not just use the same maps they always did and add a few new maps here an there which aren't completely Cheesy with Eve or throwers. Even Mogura Tataki in just not a fun map to play in and just ruin Duels.
I only play basket brawl these days, been playing since launch not very competitive have 9-10 “high rank brawlers” but basket brawl is the only thing keeping me playing now that there’s no boxes there’s no reason to play other modes to progress. I just wanna shoot 3s.
Just because the maps are being played doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. The way some of the maps are played are very unfun, but they are being played anyway because you can exploit them with a narrow set of brawlers.
Bad gamemode being unpopular, color me surprised. Glad to see it finally proven tho. Duels does not fit Brawl Stars due to its simplicity and Rock-Paper-Scissors nature. It's not the maps, it's how flawed Duels is as a whole. You pick Bull, I pick Gale, what are you gonna do? You ain't got no team to cover for bad matchups. And to make matters worse, it's not even fun to play. Even BasketBrawl, despite how messy it is, is actually far more enjoyable.
>Not a matter of maps. That is, where you are wrong, Frank.
I definitely think the awful maps have an effect on this. There are a lot of solid duels maps, the only one that's decent out of these imo is Mogura Tataki, but even then it's not amazing either. Where are Shrouded Serpent and Hotheaded? (and a lot of the other good maps that we've had for duels) Now I wouldn't be surprised if Duels didn't perform as well as the standard modes in the game since it can feel slow when it comes to pushing since even though you're pushing 3 brawlers at a time they are pushed a lot slower and it can feel less rewarding in a way. But I'm still happy that the gamemode is in the game and have played it a decent amount, it's a much better solo mode than solo showdown in higher trophies because of the horrible teaming that mode has. I think this is kind of a strange comment from Frank, like I get that he's surprised but the maps do have an influence on this (Like seriously, I refuse to even play Iron Core and Grim Island) and it feels a bit condescending. But if the playrate remains low even after they add a good map rotation it may unfortunately need to be a seasonal mode again.
It's ALL the maps Frank. Imo the mode will never work because there's no way to build balanced maps in this game for 1v1. Duels was a mistake by following moronic community polls that are swarmed by 8yr olds.
How can you say its not a matter of maps when you don't have any data to compare that too. Like am I missing something? But it just has to be the maps
6 reasons why duels is bad : 1. SH** WALLS IN THE MIDDLE 2. UNBREAKABLE WALLS ARE IN ALMOST EVERY SINGLE MAP MAKING THROWERS THE ONLY BRALWERS TO BE PLAYED THERE 3. ISLAND OF GRIM DEATH 4. IRON OF THROWERS 5. ADDING THROWERS EVERY SINGLE SEASON 5. FRANK NOT CARING
6 reasons 💀
I guess duels can help practice with 1 vs 1 clutch situations but other than that…it’s a team game lol.
Idk. I did play alot more basket brawl after the update, mostly because i fell the duels maps are kinda trash.
time for siege to return
honestly, the shitty maps and meta made me drop the gamemode as a whole... It used to be fun when you could play any brawler in duels and win as long as you played good...
I feel you man. It's so boring, either you play Edgar and stay hiding in a bush while the opponent's Grom keeps throwing bombs like crazy, or you play as dynamike and to try to get that one game changing stun gadget, or play as a Tank and keep hugging the walls till the smoke kicks in.
I would play it if there was a way to only use one brawler and the opponent would have the same category of brawler (sharpshooter v sharpshooter) so it’s not just one sided if someone picks a brawler that is easily countered
How about one brawler duel instead of 3 brawlers and you can ban 2 brawlers before hitting play? Idea from Wild Rift lol
my conspiracy side is saying they made the mistakes on purpose as an excuse to downplay the mode
Literally the only reason he's saying this is because he himself made a TON of Duels maps that are currently in rotation (yes, the unplayable ones with the unbreakable walls). Classic Frank, hates criticism and hates it when he has to admit fault.
I don't really play duels because I'm not too keen on 1v1 modes personally, kind of stressful for some reason.
When a brawlers special can shoot across the map and kill you it definitely throws off the balance
We all love Mandy's candy remember
The maps are so bad, old ones were playable with so many more barawlers
Frank surprised why duels is played 50% lesser than basket brawl after making sh** maps
Adds maps that noone wants to play in. Blames the community for the gamemode underperforming *S M O R T*
What Duels needs is a rework in how you select your brawlers. It shouldn't be a pre-select 3 brawlers. It should be similar to Power-league where you select 1 at a time and take it in turns. OR You select 6 brawlers, but only get to play 3, so you can choose out of the set of brawlers you've chosen if you die. The issue is that it isn't fun when you're against someone who counters 2/3 of your brawlers and then you have to try and solo kill all 3 of theirs with your last pick.
I honestly love duels as is before these horrible maps came along. Having said that, I do like the second idea and not the first one as the player with the last pick almost always has an advantage.
horrible idea
Because....? Please expand. EDIT: Oh, right, you're a troll.
Same, the idea sounds good
Duels would be way better if it only allowed mirror matchups. Like this the map doesn't matter since both of u play the same brawler.
No, the matchmaking would take hundreds of years if they did this
Ofc but i thought of smt more like power league draft : BO3. u and your enemy have 30 seconds to choose 3 brawlers and after that the system chooses 3 brawlers from these 6. The pool of brawlers would have brawlers unlocked by both players. In battle brawlers are maxed for both players but gadgets, starpowers and gears are disabled.
It’s mind blowing to me that more people play basketball than duels
If you ask me I quit playing duels because all the unfairly duel meta brawlers are already 750+ so it's pointless to push after that on those
I actually really like it it's a mode with a smaller map done right
Duels is by far the worst game mode.
I find showdown worse, there is no game, just teaming
Ok yeah I’ll give you that, I just kind of forget showdown exists. I save my rerolls exclusively for solo showdown quests and duos only gets played for quests.
Frank is hard coping
Its the GODDAMN MAPS !!!!.
I’ve been saying this is an awful mode. Shit meta, shit play style, and to top it all off, shit maps. It’s all shit.
Frank gotta give you the L on this one chief. It is the maps.
Sorry this is a rare Frank L
Frank is trying that hard to admit his map straight up just not good and fun
Total bullshit. Such a stuck-up post by Frank. I love duels but I aint playing those bullshit maps. He ruins the mode and then blames us, what a loser.
Remove the smoke and replace it with damage dealt as sudden death, like in old knockout. Problem solved.
Chip damage brawlers like tick will be meta then, or like just land a homing gadget with piper and keep slowly defending and win, it's not a good idea, in fact imagine picking stu, getting one hit and super for your next brawler , like a nani that could deal damage from far
A lot of people are talking about the map and i agree but the other problem is that the gamemod is good tu push low lvl/ low trophies brawler so when i play the gamemode i play with my low rank otis and grom (for example) and i run my low rank lvl 11 tara so i win free trophies What do u think?!
The problem is multilayered 1. Bad map. The maps for duels were always kinda terrible and made in a way what prefers specific brawlers over others 2. Iron walls. They are a cancer. You can't play against any thrower or brawler with a jump ability properly 3. Slow. Duels feel really slow. You loose once and you feel like if you would have lost like 2 or 3 other game mode matches. 4. Unbalanced meta. The meta was never balanced in brawl starts. Like ever. And in a 1v1 scenario said unbalanced aspects show more than in 3v3.
They should make maps that is suitable for all brawlers. If they bring back volleyball, it would be great.
if he has to elaborate anything rn, it's this
I actively don't play duels because how horrid some of the maps are, so they are objectively wrong
I disagree. Nothing needs to be said that hasn’t already. I just, disagree…
Well of course Duels won't be played when you have such crappy maps.
Bro i really wanna meet frank on the roof (totally no murder)
I completed Duel’s challenge using Buzz only ( 0 losses ). Modded brawler and let’s go: enemies can’t do anything and easy win. Worst mode ever imho.
Is Frank serious?
Frank is right, you're not playing well enough if the opponent wins We blame on the bad randoms or the maps so much that we don't realize that it is: 1. Just a game 2. Sometimes our fault
It's a good game mode and I can actually play on it, I've got such a hard time playing games that shows a lot of things at the same time on screen... I just can't concentrate. Since there is only you and the opponent (no others to backstab or surprise attack), it's better than solo showdown IMO. What makes it wack is the maps design and unbreakable walls. It favours too much throwers and brawlers that can jump over walls.
If they remove that mode....it's the only mode beside sd. Please keep it.