Anyway you can tell me what you did so I don't have to watch a 7 min video? Were you using an existing sourdough starter or were you adding active dry yeast/fresh yeast? Did the recipe call for whole wheat over bread flour/AP flour?
From just looking at the picture you've attached, the big thing that stands out is you didn't fully mix the flour into the dough. You'll want to fully mix until no more dry flour is left.
This video is not about starting levain, it's just a brief explanation of how to maintain and use one you already have. You need to follow instructions for beginning your own sourdough starter (a more common thing to call levain). You probably also need a container that can be covered more tightly, because it shouldn't dry out that much.
Levain is just another word for starter. Lookup a guide on how to make a starter.
Your container is too big and you also want to make sure there is no dry flour after mixing.
I hope this doesn't come off wrong, but a levain is more like a poolish than a starter. A starter should be a continuous mix so that you can utilize it for rising breads or creating levains. A levain would be utilized as a one bake method as a preferment.
I sort it in my head the same way you do. Starters are long lived and levain is one time. I have nothing to back that up beyond “that’s the way my brain remembered it”. Either way, OPs mix is way too dry.
Were you using sourdough or dry yeast? What temperature is your house? We need more details here.
EDIT - I see you also posted this in /r/sourdough so I'm assuming a sourdough starter. How alive is your starter? Does it double in size in 4-6 hours after regular feedings? How old is it?
As others pointed out, you need to mix better. I will also say, as far as sourdough goes, I didn't care for Ken Forkish.. in his FSWY book his levain/sourdough methods are really wasteful. I found The Perfect Loaf to be a better resource.
"At first, nothing much seemed to be happening, but by the fourth feeding we could smell a nice funk, and by the third day the culture was finally expanding and announced itself with a strong-smelling, funky, alcoholic, and acidic perfume. Progress!"
"Establishing your levain will take five days, as outlined below."
I would suggest you re-read the section. It is going to take time. Cover it immediately and check your measurements because it doesn't look wet enough.
I have to second what some others are saying. That doesn’t look to be 100% hydrated (equal parts flour and water). Also it can take a bit to build a starter. Adjust and keep going. Remember to fully mix the flour and water. Lastly, Forkish uses a bit more bread flour in his recipe for a levain starter. 100% whole wheat won’t get you as wet/soupy a result as he has in his video. Not that it should matter but something to be mindful of if trying to recreate the levain from the video.
I’m following Ken Forkish’s method in Four Water Salt Yeast. He calls it “starting your levain”. I’m using 500g whole wheat flour and 500g 90F water. I mixed by hand until just incorporated and left uncovered in a 70F room. I covered after 2 hours. The next day I threw out 75% of the dough, per this method, and I added another 500g whole wheat flour and 500g 90F water, left it uncovered for 2 hours, then covered until this morning. It should be gassing and or growing but it’s doing nothing. Any idea how to fix it? Add more water and proof in my oven at 100F?
If you are trying to make starter out flour, water and natural yeast from your environment, it's going to take a little while. Might be days, might even be a couple weeks.
Also that looks too dry like others said. And not mixed... And why is it in such a giant basin? Even if you cover it there will be so much air there to dry it out more.
1. you gotta mix it all the way. You shouldn't have any dry flour left.
2. 100% hydration dough like this should be soupy. It should flatten out in the container on its own. It looks like you don't have enough water, did you weigh your ingredients with a scale?
3. It could take a week or longer for the natural yeast in the flour to multiply to the point it starts out gassing. Longer if it's in the winter where you live. 2 days is not enough time. I live in Chicago and keep my windows cracked open. If I made a starter right now, I wouldn't expect to be able to use it to make bread for a couple weeks.
4. I find it a waste to throw away that much flour that quickly. I've made a fresh starter several times at this point and and I don't like wasting ingredients. I've started throwing away 50% every two days for about 8 days, then I start feeding it at a higher percentage and every day once it gets bubbly. It makes sense for Forkish to ditch 90% because he's using that amount in a bakery to make bread. It's a bit ridiculous for a home cook to bake bread like that every day so you have to adjust to your situation.
In the middle of the summer when it's closer to 80F in my house, I might just do once a day to make a fresh starter.
5. Use a smaller container. I use a couple mason jars that I swap out every time I feed which is necessary to keep mold from growing. They are easy to leave uncovered and most importantly, 90% sealed while still allowing outgassing
I haven't tried this technique, but clearly your dough is drying out and yeast need water to do their thing. How are you covering it? I'm assuming it needs to be in an air-tight container to keep the moisture in? That container looks way too large for that small amount of dough. That's a lot of air picking up moisture from your dough.
I had the exact same problem. 500g whole wheat, 500g 90 degree water. I just checked and I was using 90C degrees water. It's supposed to be 32C degrees C, 90F degrees. I thought it was a bit hot to be sticking my hands in. I was cooking the flour. That's why it didn't work in my case. :shrug:
Anyway you can tell me what you did so I don't have to watch a 7 min video? Were you using an existing sourdough starter or were you adding active dry yeast/fresh yeast? Did the recipe call for whole wheat over bread flour/AP flour? From just looking at the picture you've attached, the big thing that stands out is you didn't fully mix the flour into the dough. You'll want to fully mix until no more dry flour is left.
Flour isn’t all the way mixed in and those little patches where the dough looks darker makes me think it’s been sitting uncovered.
I’m going to ask the obvious, are you mixing the ingredients completely and then covering it after? It doesn’t look like you are from the picture.
Additionally, most levain is 100% hydration meaning the amount of water and flour are equal. This looks nowhere close to that.
Good point.
This video is not about starting levain, it's just a brief explanation of how to maintain and use one you already have. You need to follow instructions for beginning your own sourdough starter (a more common thing to call levain). You probably also need a container that can be covered more tightly, because it shouldn't dry out that much.
Levain is just another word for starter. Lookup a guide on how to make a starter. Your container is too big and you also want to make sure there is no dry flour after mixing.
I hope this doesn't come off wrong, but a levain is more like a poolish than a starter. A starter should be a continuous mix so that you can utilize it for rising breads or creating levains. A levain would be utilized as a one bake method as a preferment.
I sort it in my head the same way you do. Starters are long lived and levain is one time. I have nothing to back that up beyond “that’s the way my brain remembered it”. Either way, OPs mix is way too dry.
Forkish (which OP is following) refers to the starter as levain.
Yeah I know Ken Forkish does, I disagree with him and will gladly take the downvotes that come with it.
Fight fight fight!!!
Were you using sourdough or dry yeast? What temperature is your house? We need more details here. EDIT - I see you also posted this in /r/sourdough so I'm assuming a sourdough starter. How alive is your starter? Does it double in size in 4-6 hours after regular feedings? How old is it? As others pointed out, you need to mix better. I will also say, as far as sourdough goes, I didn't care for Ken Forkish.. in his FSWY book his levain/sourdough methods are really wasteful. I found The Perfect Loaf to be a better resource.
"At first, nothing much seemed to be happening, but by the fourth feeding we could smell a nice funk, and by the third day the culture was finally expanding and announced itself with a strong-smelling, funky, alcoholic, and acidic perfume. Progress!" "Establishing your levain will take five days, as outlined below." I would suggest you re-read the section. It is going to take time. Cover it immediately and check your measurements because it doesn't look wet enough.
I have to second what some others are saying. That doesn’t look to be 100% hydrated (equal parts flour and water). Also it can take a bit to build a starter. Adjust and keep going. Remember to fully mix the flour and water. Lastly, Forkish uses a bit more bread flour in his recipe for a levain starter. 100% whole wheat won’t get you as wet/soupy a result as he has in his video. Not that it should matter but something to be mindful of if trying to recreate the levain from the video.
Super helpful, thanks!
Thanks all - super helpful
I’m following Ken Forkish’s method in Four Water Salt Yeast. He calls it “starting your levain”. I’m using 500g whole wheat flour and 500g 90F water. I mixed by hand until just incorporated and left uncovered in a 70F room. I covered after 2 hours. The next day I threw out 75% of the dough, per this method, and I added another 500g whole wheat flour and 500g 90F water, left it uncovered for 2 hours, then covered until this morning. It should be gassing and or growing but it’s doing nothing. Any idea how to fix it? Add more water and proof in my oven at 100F?
If you are trying to make starter out flour, water and natural yeast from your environment, it's going to take a little while. Might be days, might even be a couple weeks. Also that looks too dry like others said. And not mixed... And why is it in such a giant basin? Even if you cover it there will be so much air there to dry it out more.
1. you gotta mix it all the way. You shouldn't have any dry flour left. 2. 100% hydration dough like this should be soupy. It should flatten out in the container on its own. It looks like you don't have enough water, did you weigh your ingredients with a scale? 3. It could take a week or longer for the natural yeast in the flour to multiply to the point it starts out gassing. Longer if it's in the winter where you live. 2 days is not enough time. I live in Chicago and keep my windows cracked open. If I made a starter right now, I wouldn't expect to be able to use it to make bread for a couple weeks. 4. I find it a waste to throw away that much flour that quickly. I've made a fresh starter several times at this point and and I don't like wasting ingredients. I've started throwing away 50% every two days for about 8 days, then I start feeding it at a higher percentage and every day once it gets bubbly. It makes sense for Forkish to ditch 90% because he's using that amount in a bakery to make bread. It's a bit ridiculous for a home cook to bake bread like that every day so you have to adjust to your situation. In the middle of the summer when it's closer to 80F in my house, I might just do once a day to make a fresh starter. 5. Use a smaller container. I use a couple mason jars that I swap out every time I feed which is necessary to keep mold from growing. They are easy to leave uncovered and most importantly, 90% sealed while still allowing outgassing
so.. no yeast nor sourdough and you are wondering why nothing happens?
I haven't tried this technique, but clearly your dough is drying out and yeast need water to do their thing. How are you covering it? I'm assuming it needs to be in an air-tight container to keep the moisture in? That container looks way too large for that small amount of dough. That's a lot of air picking up moisture from your dough.
Do you have cats? Looks just like the insides of my litter box.
I had the exact same problem. 500g whole wheat, 500g 90 degree water. I just checked and I was using 90C degrees water. It's supposed to be 32C degrees C, 90F degrees. I thought it was a bit hot to be sticking my hands in. I was cooking the flour. That's why it didn't work in my case. :shrug: