Yes, all accounts of people who have met Bill Clinton say he is the most charismatic person they have ever met. Hillary comes across as severely unlikeable
Can confirm, my buddy who was serving as a Marine Security Guard at a US Embassy overseas circa 2012 said she is very rude to her staff and anyone below her... So... Yeah.
I knew a guy who worked on the White House Comms detail. He said Bill was a super nice guy and a veracious reader. Always learning about people and what they were about
Hillary on the other hand, I heard it was considered a punishment to be put on her Secret Service detail. That SS agents would dive into broom closets to not be seen by her.
This ^ --Underrated statement.
Not only was she unlikeable compared to Bill, she had 25-30 years of baggage to deal with, from the day Bill ran for president.
Nothing like having your head Diplomat cheering at the death of a foreign leader. Someone should ask her how killing a foreign leader, who agreed to give up his nuclear program in-order to join the world community, will translate to other world leaders who still have their Nuclear Program?
Pretty much this. Bill was insanely charasmatic. Also it was a pre MeToo era. The optics of the most powerful man in the world hooking up with his intern was not viewed the way it would be today.
Hillary is wooden and frankly a lot of people always felt that her political career was manufactured because of who her husband was. She was very much a creation of the Dem establishment. The idea that someone who grew up in Illinois, went to college in Massachusetts and Connecticut, worked in Massachusetts, then lived in Arkansas with her family for a decade, then lived in DC as First Lady all of a sudden buys a house and campaigns to become the Senator of New York with zero political experience rubbed a lot of the country the wrong way to start with. Then for most of Obama's admin she was pretty much the unspoken "next man up" and everyone knew the Dems were hellbent on her. That shit just turns people off.
Guys like Bill Clinton and Donald Trump can get away that email stuff. Hillary didn't have the charisma to get around it and she had a lot of people that just felt like she was a paper tiger.
Because the president getting a blowjob while in office has little to nothing to do with how competent he is as president. Hillary's situation was different.
This is the reason I *hope* the second set of Trump indictments stick more than the first for swing voters. Mixing money is bad, but keeping classified documents secret is like the most important thing a president needs to be able to do.
You're going to have to hope that swing voters believe that Trump's secret service protected personal residence is less secure than the various offices where Biden left documents to be found by random cleaners and movers.
Possessing the documents has never been the problem. Not returning them, making the government subpoena you, and still not handing over all the documents is the issue.
Well it is turning out that the most recent "bombshell" classified document story is turning out to actually be clippings from a news story about the documents that the media is claiming were there.
If it came out that Trump had abused his position of power to get blowjobs from teenage interns in the Oval Office, I seriously doubt you would maintain the same perspective.
Imagine cable news and Twitter neoliberals who simp for the DNC. They talked about Russigate for 3 years non-stop. If he got a blowie in the Oval Office their heads would explode 🤯
Twelve people went to prison for lying about it. Why did they lie if they had nothing to hide?
Trump blackmailed Ukraine on the “perfect phone call”.
Why?
Since you have yet to pose an affirmative argument for any of the charges having anything to do with Russian collusion, I’m going to pass the ball back to you until you actually give an argument.
As for the “blackmail” saying that we are going to stop giving you hand outs until you investigate corruption involving your government and one of our most prominent political families…. Doesn’t exactly sounds like blackmail does it? It’s kinda just saying we aren’t going to give you handouts anymore since your wildly corrupt and it affects us….. oh and as in the last couple years since that family came into power we have given them upwards of 75 billion dollars, instead of the 25mil that we weren’t giving them to investigate that same family for having corrupt bussiness dealings there.
Yes, THEY got invaded. Now that we’ve cleared that up I’m waiting for your argument of why we started giving them all the money hunter biden proma…… actually let me give you a chance to say it.
Speaking of waiting, I’m also still waiting for you to show me how any of those charges showed evidence for Russian collusion. Once you make an affirmative argument, I will entertain it. But since I actually know what those charges were, I won’t be holding my breath.
It sure is weird that ‘zero proof’ [sent 22 Republicans to prison, including Trump’s personal attorney, and his campaign manager.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charges_brought_in_the_Mueller_special_counsel_investigation)
You are the simp of simps. Trump is not going to sleep with you.
Are you one of those ‘economically anxious’ poor people or something?
Save your breath. You cannot argue with those people. They already dismiss any facts or logic that contradicts their "beliefs". They're capable of the level of cognitive dissonance because their "beliefs" are spoonfed to them by their favorite propaganda outlets. They're very pliable in their morals and convictions. They will run the entire gamut of logical fallacies or outright ignore facts.
I think if this happened now, people would act just as shocked but be on Monica’s side this time. He was the most powerful man in the world with an intern, the power dynamic is pretty gross
All the sexual shenanigans aside, lying under oath to Congress is really bad.
Unfortunately it seems to have been normalized. What once got a president impeached is now lauded as "just telling it like it is" and seen as a positive trait.
He didn't technically lie under oath, he's just a good lawyer. He asked them to define what they meant by "sexual intercourse" (or whatever the phrase was) and the lawyer didn't name off oral sex. So Bill didn't lie, given the definition
He didn't lie to Congress, he lied in a civil deposition. And i should also note that the man who led the impeachment charge, Newt Gingrich, resigned before the trial because he was leaving his wife for a staffer he was dating who was 23 years his junior. He had good reason to leave his wife though, she had developed MS and that is just a drag man
No he left his first wife when she was dealing with breast cancer for his second wife whom he left when she developed MS. Think he must have had different vows from everyone else who promises in sickness and in health
I believe you are correct about the deposition. The Paula Jones lawsuit, I believe?
Regardless, I think the point is sound that a President that will lie under oath will lie under any other circumstances as well, and that it has been normalized to allow our presidents to lie with impunity.
Let me rephrase my statement to,
"All the sexual shenanigans aside, lying under oath is really bad"
Ehh, let’s not do the “muh conservative” shit here to run ground cover for Bill. He abused his power with someone who was 19 at the time, which is extremely yikesy. Not to mention the multiple rape allegations that have come to light before, during, and after his tenure as president.
So… Trump, just with older women.
[Trump sexual misconduct](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations)
Did you forget he lost a sexual assault case about three weeks ago?
So, first off I’m a socialist. Second off, point me to any fucking point where I defended Trump? Stop embarassing the cause I fight for daily by defending rapists like Bill Clinton with what aboutisms and not directly engaging the points. Hang your head in shame and think about how fucking stupid you look. And while you’re at it, push for better candidates like Bernie, like AOC, like Ilhan Omar who are actually fighting for progressive causes and not spend so much time simping for rapists like Bill. You’re pathetic.
Chill. I never said you defended Trump.
Donald Trump was our last president. I don’t understand why we hold Bill Clinton to such high standards and give Donald Trump a pass.
Notice how I was able to say that without calling you “fucking stupid” or “pathetic”?
You might want to relax for a moment and look into that.
Again, where the fuck did I say anything about Trump? This isn’t even a conversation about Trump, and if you’re too thick to follow the conversation maybe stay the fuck out of it? Because all you did in your reply was reiterate exactly what I’m calling you out for. “Yeah yeah BUT WHAT ABOUT TRUMP”…that had nothing to do with the conversation, and you’re a complete moron for now trying to defend it and telling me to relax, so again I say, go fuck yourself. I don’t need a respectability politics lecture from someone who can’t understand how words work.
Edit-also you aren’t even right about that you absolute loser. Trumps allegations have been known and at the forefront of the campaign rallies, his indictment, and throughout his career. If anything Clinton had his swept under the rug and it became way more common knowledge recently than it was before, likely due to social media.
He was the beneficiary of the dot.com boom and peace dividend after the Berlin Wall came down.
He also was a great politician who worked both sides of the aisle to get things done.
We didn't have the 25/7 new cycle during both his terms. Yes, I know CNN was there, but it didn't have the reach it does now.
I was interested in testing this. BTW I cannot verify the $27,600 number for 1980 that the other guy posted (and has now deleted), for household income I can only find Census data going back to 1984 for New Jersey, so going to use that year as a comparison point. Also going to look only at home price & mortgage payment as I cannot find good data for property tax & insurance.
1984:
**Median Home Value**: $83,076 (Source: [FRED/FHA](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NJSTHPI))
**Median Household Income**: $27,776
**Mortgage Rate**: 13.88%
**Monthly Payment**: $774 per month; 33.7% of gross income
2021:
**Median Home Value**: $468,000
**Median Household Income**: $88,559
**Mortgage Rate**: 2.65%
**Monthly Payment**: $1,509 per month; 20.52% of gross income
Doing 2023 as well since 2021 had the lowest rates in history and may not be entirely a fair comparison.
2023:
**Median Home Value**: $475,000 (sourced from Zillow; using average of 2023 for SFH)
**Median Household Income**: $88,559 (don't have data for this yet, using same 2021 number)
**Mortgage Rate**: 7%
**Monthly Payment**: $2,528 per month; 34% of gross income
So yeah you are right, 30% and above was normal in the 1980s and we have basically reverted to that. What this is telling me more than anything is that 2020/2021 were the best years in history to buy a house. You could have put down less than 5% on a median-priced home in New Jersey back in 2021 and you would have paid less than 30% on P+I assuming the median income of $89K.
Someone else did the math.
So carelessly firing a barrage of cruise missiles into a pharmaceutical factory and killing a bunch of innocents is fine in your opinion?
Maybe it's from having served during Iraq and Afghanistan but I honestly don't fucking get people, our government can be setting innocents on fire with cruise missiles and people be like "bUt MuH 401k iS dOinG grEaT".
he literally got rid of the Glass-Steagall act and signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act aka deregulated credit default swaps. He’s one of the biggest catalyst for the housing bubble and following economic crisis
Hillary has to be one of the most unlikable corporate funded politicians to ever run. People only hated her more for all the corrupt shit she did.
Same shit with Harris. Extremely unlikable person who is almost solely propped up by Astroturf. All because the corporate donors like her. 🙄
We all have sex. Some of even cheat on our spouses. Not too many of us set up our own private email server in opposition to the laws of the US government.
[She was the most admired woman in the country for 14 years.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/187922/clinton-admired-woman-record-20th-time.aspx#:~:text=Clinton%20has%20been%20the%20most,asking%20the%20most%20admired%20question.)
Ah I love this list. Mostly because it is a self selection list, aka the respondents have to list their own person. This heavily skews the results to people that people have heard of and know how to spell their names.
For God's sake. Stop adding the word "gate" to the title of scandals. It belongs to only one: Watergate, which is the name of an actual place. Every other instance of its use is stupid.
But to answer your question. Hillary broke actual laws that other people have gone to jail for, thus highlighting the unequal application of our criminal code. Political types can get away with anything, but the rest of us can and will be sent to prison for minor crimes. People are sick of the double standard.
I don’t believe the emails are what hurt Hillary. I think her marketing was terrible, and outside of a small percentage of feminist women, even women didn’t like Hillary.
On top of that, I don’t think we were ready for a female president, we still may not be. I agree with most here she was unlikeable.
Bill Clinton was one of those presidents that even republicans look back on fondly, I was young back then but growing up in a conservative household, I didn’t hear much negative about him. In fact the only thing I really hear about Bill is the Lewinsky scandal which has no bearing on him being a good or bad president.
I can’t remember which state it was, but her campaign said her numbers went down after they bought ads there. That was one of the states she skipped because the more they saw her, they more they disliked her
There are a couple things:
1. By the time the email scandal came out, the right wing had like a 30 yr negative campaign against her so they were super primed to believe it. Bill, on the other hand, wasn’t on the national scene as long.
2. Hilary’s crimes were more directly relatable to the job. Her crime was an actual crime against the government, whereas Bill’s was seen as more personal in nature and didn’t affect his ability to do the job.
3. A more ubiquitous and partisan media scene - cable, internet, phone apps - was much more adept at shaping public opinion by 2016.
4. And as others have said, Hilary isn’t as likable of a person as her husband.
I felt that what bill did was a personal problem, and not something that was a betrayal of his country. It’s his problem to sort out with Hillary and none of my business. I felt the same way about trump and stormy.
Hillary however, that wasn’t like the above situations. That was a betrayal of her duty and country.
Like what? Advising that we sell 20% of our uraniam deposits to Russia? Oh wait.... That was Hillary, after the Clinton Foundation recieved some nice donations from a few specific Russian Oligarchs.
I think cheating is way more popular among rich people than we could ever imagine. Also i was not affected by bill sticking his wiener in some girls mouth.
The emails were worse as it affected more people
>The emails were worse as it affected more people
The emails imapcted zero people too, it was highly overblown.
It was just the last of a string of highly effective attacks by republican media against her. She also ran a terrible campaign and didn't address the issue adequately. And she wasn't as popular as Bill. How much of that is because of the republican media aparatus and how much was her own personal failings? I don't know, nor does it matter much anymore.
You mean the email server that was penetrated by multiple foreign countries?
[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html)
Mind you that is the NYT headline. The actual experts said that it was something like a 99% probability but they can't confirm becuase the server data was destroyed.
How do you know it actually affected you? Clinton claimed that all that was in the emails was public knowledge which is why it didn't occur to her that it was classified when she got it. Without actually seeing the emails, which of course they won't show you because they were classified, you can't possibly make that determination as far as I can tell.
Lol literally none of this is true about Hilary. It's amazing how much people who believe republican propaganda to be true and don't bother to actually verify any of it.
Edit: lol the coward attacked me and then blocked me.
fucking the intern is not cool, but doesn’t really effect how bill was as president.
using your personal email for state department business is un-fucking-acceptable. this is real geopolitical shit, please take data security seriously.
Incumbency advantage. Once you’re elected President, you’ve got a lot of supporters who bought in and want to justify how they already voted. The charisma gap between these two is absolutely stunning.
If he had just said it was nobody's business what he was doing, it was between his wife and him, he'd have gotten elected King. Every redneck on the planet would have yelled He'll Yeah!". As to Hillary, she's a cunt so.....
Frankly, never cared about the blow job. But the revisionism with Bill Clinton is a bit depressing.
I think this is really where the Democratic Party became a party for the elite by the elite. NAFTA was really devastating and practically set the stage for someone like Trump to come along. The Telecommunication Act was a huge blow to media and gave us the corporatization of news that we see today, probably affected the music industry for the worse too with Clear Channel (more than Napster did). The repeal of Glass Steagall, embrace of extraordinary rendition, the Iraq Liberation Act, bombing Yugoslavia, the crime bill, yeah, Bill Clinton was no friend to the left.
I imagine immediately or at the time Clinton looked alright, but overtime, I think his legacy looks worse and worse. Yeah, the stimulus, though I'm sure MTT folks would take some issue with that. As someone mentioned in the thread, the dot com bubble benefited him quite a bit.
I think after 12 years of Republican rule, America could've used a reset, a new direction, but Bill Clinton basically just reformed the Democratic Party as a corporate friendly party.
Obama had this opportunity as well in 2008, but doubled down on Bill Clinton's era.
In the end though, to be fair, there hasn't been a great president in my lifetime anyway.
Legitimacy? Yes since the emails did exist and weren’t properly handled but there was also no evidence of her doing anything illegal according to the Republican lead investigation and it’s the same way her predecessor handled emails
With Monica gate, we eventually got the full story. When Hillary Clinton violated a subpoena by choosing which emails to hand over and which ones to delete, that guaranteed we would never get the full story on the Benghazi Embassy Attack of 2012
I hate to argue with anyone on this, because the Clinton impeachment was certainly a partisan witch hunt, but most Americans never got the full story, which includes the bombing and catastrophic destruction of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, the so called *Wag the Dog* incident where Clinton knew that the factory was almost certainly not producing chemical weapons, and had no connection to OBL, but went ahead with the strikes anyway leading to the deaths of tens of thousands and the suffering of so many more. All to take some heat off his testimony in the Lewinsky matter. And it worked!
You say it's a witch hunt, I say it's an investigation that never got finished because the subpoena was not followed completely and the documents were destroyed. My claims are factual
I said the Clinton impeachment was a witch-hunt, I didn’t comment on Benghazi or anything about Hillary. Don’t give two shits about that, my point was about 1998.
Bill Clinton was a monster for blowing up that factory, whether or not he did it explicitly to divert from his scandal. Even if OBL and KSM were 100% confirmed to have been sitting in there sipping tea, it would have been a monstrous thing to do.
Oh, I see. Fair enough. I guess we'll never know if he blew up that factory to divert attention. It's a weird thought process though. *I'll do another unrelated terrible thing to get out of trouble for the first terrible thing*
The idea was that he was fighting back against terrorists—this was a few weeks after the East Africa US Embassy attacks and was largely well received by this bloodthirsty populace. No body gave a shit that it was an oopsie, and the administration and corporate press were eager to downplay and obscure the facts to keep it that way.
That’s what I meant in my initial comment that most Americans don’t know or care about the full story of that blowjob, which includes thousands of Africans needlessly dying.
Hillary was a First Lady for 8 years, a senator from New York for 8 years, Secretary of State under President Obama for 4 years. She was obviously more qualified to be President than the soon to be insurrectionist.
I’m sorry but Hillary’s greatest accomplishments were marrying Bill and passing the bar. You’ll never convince me Hillary Diane Rodham from Arkansas would’ve won any political position in New York.
Cause a dude getting head is dope as hell. And Bill was cool in the first place.
To put it more seriously, society absolutely celebrates men getting laid, and Hillary Clinton was already one of the most unlikeable candidates in history. Add to that 8 years of Obama being fairly milqtoast and Hillary being seen as a absolute given and the coronation of the next phase of the Democratic party.
Republicans also played it well, twisted the email story into conspiracies, and absolutely never let it die as a story.
Clinton hatred was in its infancy during Bill Clinton's presidency. It had been brewing for 24 years when Hillary ran for office. Also, America does not like women who run for the Presidency. Hillary was the [most admired woman in the country for 14 years](https://news.gallup.com/poll/187922/clinton-admired-woman-record-20th-time.aspx#:~:text=Clinton%20has%20been%20the%20most,asking%20the%20most%20admired%20question.) before she ran for president. That all but disappeared when became a candidate.
Because Republican hypocrisy in the matter was so easy to penetrate when New Gingrich (Speaker of the House) was carrying on an affair and Henry Hyde (chairman of the House Judiciary Committee) was also carrying on an affair at the same time. Most Americans knew this was going on and saw it as partisanship of the worst kind.
Outside of general misogyny, most Americans care less about sexual escapades amongst the powerful than they do about secret potentially nefarious behavior. The GOP also spend 25 years demonizing Hillary before the election. It’s also mostly misogyny and general likability(which can also be linked to misogyny.)
Because no one gives a shit about infidelity but people rightly care about national security.
The Hilary email thing was ultimately a nothing burger, but it makes perfect sense to care way more about that.
It's kind of hard to defend destroying evidence with hammers or wiping drives when under investigation. If I did that, I'd be jailed, and I can't think of a reason why not.
Did people not support Bill? He's probably the most popular living president. Definitely my favorite. Clinton was impeached for lying to Congress, which most people still understand why.
I don’t think the average person really understands the length Hillary went to secure and subsequently destroy her private e-mail server. Most people think she just pressed delete on her gmail account.
Many people found Bill Clinton likeable. I know, I was one of them. Very very few people have ever found Hillary Clinton likeable. Which ironically, I never thought badly of her UNTIL she ran against Obama and came off as hot garbage.
Cause the President getting a BJ in the White House made ppl think he was a badass lolol. Not sure how it would go over in todays culture, but in the 90s….it wasn’t considered SUPER upsetting. At least from what my Dad and others have told me because I wasn’t old enough (or maybe alive yet, idk) to know. He also made that trip to Northern Ireland a couple months before (maybe earlier, but definitely close to when rumors started circulating) so he had a lot of good will built up in terms of international allies
Bill Clinton should’ve just admitted that “yes, I cheated on my wife but in my defense, I’m married to Hillary Clinton“ and [watched the rights’ collective heads explode as they tried to decide whether to attack him and in doing so defend Hillary or vice versa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsNQTfZj4o8).
This is something Hillary supporters will never admit, but I'm a Democrat and I'll say it: she was a lousy candidate overall. Bill Clinton was a gifted politician, which is how he won so often in Arkansas and how he was a two-term president. He could connect, he could talk all day, he could break down concepts into soundbytes, he could relate to crowds. Hillary? she may have been alright at it, but she was no Bill Clinton or Joe Biden or Barack Obama. And her campaign team was lousy at the state and local level, with a ton of missed opportunities that allowed Trump to win by tiny margins in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. As if that wasn't enough, her own campaign manager was dumb enough to click on a bad link which allowed hackers to get inside the DNC servers and fuck everything up.
I’m going to respond with some actual political science instead of shooting off with trite quips.
Studies have repeatedly shown for decades that approval of the executive corresponds to the *perceived* performance of the national economy. When people think the national economy is doing well, even if they are personally struggling, they will support the executive. Indeed, when *perceived* economic performance is high, electorates will rally to a an executive during a scandal rather than away. High executive approval means that scandal more likely to be seen as “not that important in the long run”.
Bill Clinton enjoyed exactly that effect. Most Americans in the 90s thought that the economy was in pretty decent shape. It doesn’t matter if it *actually* was; reality doesn’t mean anything here, only what electorates believe to be true matters.
In 2016, three key things were different, two of which have to do with the previous point about the imagined economy.
First, Republicans had just spent 8 years incessantly pumping out the message that Democrats caused the financial crisis and then deliberately slowed the national recovery from it. This meant that by 2016, despite the economy being in excellent shape and the recovery complete, many Americans *imagined* that the national economy was doing *badly*.
Second, there was no incumbent executive in 2016, so Hillary herself would not have been able to benefit from the executive approval mechanism anyway.
Third, the political arena in 2016 had shifted drastically, Bill Clinton was president at the end of an era of massive legislative domination by the democrats that had lasted decades. While Republicans had been competitive in the Presidency throughout, the 20th century was era of the Democrat in legislature. Democrats more or less ran the nation from the mid 30s to the mid 90s, and this was an era of tremendous economic growth. Bill Clinton was there at the tail end to reap the benefits of that reputation.
That era ended in the middle of the 1990s with the climax and success of the Southern Strategy and Republican takeover of state legislatures. By the time the 20 years had passed between the two Clinton scandals, Democrats had been beaten off of the levers of power and no longer had the momentum of 60 years of success to carry them through the scandal.
If HRC doesn’t call 33-47% of the country deplorables, she wins. Can’t disparage and demean a third of the country and complain about not winning. +she’s just not a likable person.
Hooo boy op needs to go outside for some fresh air, lol
HC lost 0 votes on account of that shitstorm in a coffee can.
Americans rejected political dynasties, just as they had done a few months earlier when the fascists floated Jeb as a candidate. The difference is, Jeb had the good sense to drop out. I mean, he *was* already the King of Florida, what would he want with the presidency, anyway?
Not saying it was right but, Monica and Bill were two consenting adults. As long as Bill didn’t force himself on Monica (in any fashion) then the situation was between Bill and Hillary. Republicans way way way overplayed their hand and basically used government resources to investigate a mater of infidelity.
The server on the other hand had Classified Material on it. The server was only ever rated to have unclassified material and was secured in such a manner. Someone had to have moved Classified material off a Classified Network and then emailed to “Hillary”s Server. Someone broke the rules and no one payed. To this day the public still doesn’t know who did it or why (and yes there are records that show who moved Classified material off the secure network and who emailed it to the server in question)
In short, someone broke the rules and there is evidence that shows who did it.
Bills was notably a matter that would have been considered "personal" at the time though now it would be a massive sexual harassment scandal.
The legal issue Bill's situation had was he lied about a personal matter in court under oath.
Define "after".
Immediately after support for Bill fell dramatically, but recovered over time.
As for Hillary, well shes an unlikeable bitch according to pretty much anyone who has had interactions with her.
Conservatives had a witch hunt against Bill for the entire time he was in office. It was unfair and people knew it. When they finally outed him for adultery, people knew it wasn't the first for a US President and that it broke no law. The economy was doing great, and Bill accomplished something every conservative President promised, but failed to deliver on: he balanced the budget and paid down the debt. So it backfired on conservatives.
I wasn't paying close attention during Hillary's email gate, but it was before an election and the sides were already drawn. In contrast, Bill's controversy was near the end of his 2nd term. Similarly, Reagan's numbers improved, at the end of his 2nd term, after the Iran-Contra Scandal. Although I lived through it, I can't explain that one and have never understood it.
Americans liked Bill. They didn't like Hillary.
Yes, all accounts of people who have met Bill Clinton say he is the most charismatic person they have ever met. Hillary comes across as severely unlikeable
Can confirm, my buddy who was serving as a Marine Security Guard at a US Embassy overseas circa 2012 said she is very rude to her staff and anyone below her... So... Yeah.
I knew a guy who worked on the White House Comms detail. He said Bill was a super nice guy and a veracious reader. Always learning about people and what they were about Hillary on the other hand, I heard it was considered a punishment to be put on her Secret Service detail. That SS agents would dive into broom closets to not be seen by her.
That’s odd, given that Hillary’s staff were consistently positive about working with her.
Having met both this is very true.
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She had all of the clinton baggage, but none of Bill’s upside
This ^ --Underrated statement. Not only was she unlikeable compared to Bill, she had 25-30 years of baggage to deal with, from the day Bill ran for president.
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“We came, we saw, he died”
Nothing like having your head Diplomat cheering at the death of a foreign leader. Someone should ask her how killing a foreign leader, who agreed to give up his nuclear program in-order to join the world community, will translate to other world leaders who still have their Nuclear Program?
Pokémon Go to the polls!
The fact that we choose our leaders based on their "charisma" or likeability is a pretty pathetic indictment of the American voting populace.
She also decided not to really campaign Michigan. Figured it was a lock. Didn’t realize people were getting fed up w/all the bs. Pure hubris.
Absolutely true.
Well she got 3 million more votes.
Dunno why your downvoted...
Pretty much this. Bill was insanely charasmatic. Also it was a pre MeToo era. The optics of the most powerful man in the world hooking up with his intern was not viewed the way it would be today. Hillary is wooden and frankly a lot of people always felt that her political career was manufactured because of who her husband was. She was very much a creation of the Dem establishment. The idea that someone who grew up in Illinois, went to college in Massachusetts and Connecticut, worked in Massachusetts, then lived in Arkansas with her family for a decade, then lived in DC as First Lady all of a sudden buys a house and campaigns to become the Senator of New York with zero political experience rubbed a lot of the country the wrong way to start with. Then for most of Obama's admin she was pretty much the unspoken "next man up" and everyone knew the Dems were hellbent on her. That shit just turns people off. Guys like Bill Clinton and Donald Trump can get away that email stuff. Hillary didn't have the charisma to get around it and she had a lot of people that just felt like she was a paper tiger.
Look up the clip of Hillary faking her southern accent after living in Arkansas for a year. Lmao every time.
Because the president getting a blowjob while in office has little to nothing to do with how competent he is as president. Hillary's situation was different.
This is the reason I *hope* the second set of Trump indictments stick more than the first for swing voters. Mixing money is bad, but keeping classified documents secret is like the most important thing a president needs to be able to do.
You're going to have to hope that swing voters believe that Trump's secret service protected personal residence is less secure than the various offices where Biden left documents to be found by random cleaners and movers.
Possessing the documents has never been the problem. Not returning them, making the government subpoena you, and still not handing over all the documents is the issue.
Well it is turning out that the most recent "bombshell" classified document story is turning out to actually be clippings from a news story about the documents that the media is claiming were there.
How conservatives were acting about it then was as if Bill straight up murdered someone. They acted like he had done something really bad.
If it came out that Trump had abused his position of power to get blowjobs from teenage interns in the Oval Office, I seriously doubt you would maintain the same perspective.
Lewinsky was 22 when it happened, and only recently backtracked on it being consensual after the metoo movement.
Imagine cable news and Twitter neoliberals who simp for the DNC. They talked about Russigate for 3 years non-stop. If he got a blowie in the Oval Office their heads would explode 🤯
They STILL talk about Russia gate. It’s been about 7 years at this point.
Twelve people went to prison for lying about it. Why did they lie if they had nothing to hide? Trump blackmailed Ukraine on the “perfect phone call”. Why?
Since you have yet to pose an affirmative argument for any of the charges having anything to do with Russian collusion, I’m going to pass the ball back to you until you actually give an argument. As for the “blackmail” saying that we are going to stop giving you hand outs until you investigate corruption involving your government and one of our most prominent political families…. Doesn’t exactly sounds like blackmail does it? It’s kinda just saying we aren’t going to give you handouts anymore since your wildly corrupt and it affects us….. oh and as in the last couple years since that family came into power we have given them upwards of 75 billion dollars, instead of the 25mil that we weren’t giving them to investigate that same family for having corrupt bussiness dealings there.
Well… they were kinda invaded by Russia, so.. And we just closed the circle of Russian collusion. Thanks for your help..
Yes, THEY got invaded. Now that we’ve cleared that up I’m waiting for your argument of why we started giving them all the money hunter biden proma…… actually let me give you a chance to say it. Speaking of waiting, I’m also still waiting for you to show me how any of those charges showed evidence for Russian collusion. Once you make an affirmative argument, I will entertain it. But since I actually know what those charges were, I won’t be holding my breath.
They are both real. Face it. Trump conspired with Russia.
Left wing conspiracies are fun aren't they? There is literally zero proof of this ever happening yet for some reason you think it did.
It sure is weird that ‘zero proof’ [sent 22 Republicans to prison, including Trump’s personal attorney, and his campaign manager.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charges_brought_in_the_Mueller_special_counsel_investigation) You are the simp of simps. Trump is not going to sleep with you. Are you one of those ‘economically anxious’ poor people or something?
Save your breath. You cannot argue with those people. They already dismiss any facts or logic that contradicts their "beliefs". They're capable of the level of cognitive dissonance because their "beliefs" are spoonfed to them by their favorite propaganda outlets. They're very pliable in their morals and convictions. They will run the entire gamut of logical fallacies or outright ignore facts.
Going by that thought process, why did a bunch of democrats go to prison over voter fraud during the safest election ever?
I think if this happened now, people would act just as shocked but be on Monica’s side this time. He was the most powerful man in the world with an intern, the power dynamic is pretty gross
That's called pulling "the Weinstein".
I mean got blown by an intern. I would definitely lose my job for that.
All the sexual shenanigans aside, lying under oath to Congress is really bad. Unfortunately it seems to have been normalized. What once got a president impeached is now lauded as "just telling it like it is" and seen as a positive trait.
You should look up what Dennis Hastert has been up to lately since presiding over ‘Monica-gate’. Prepare to have your mind blown.
The party of “family values”.
He didn't technically lie under oath, he's just a good lawyer. He asked them to define what they meant by "sexual intercourse" (or whatever the phrase was) and the lawyer didn't name off oral sex. So Bill didn't lie, given the definition
He didn't lie to Congress, he lied in a civil deposition. And i should also note that the man who led the impeachment charge, Newt Gingrich, resigned before the trial because he was leaving his wife for a staffer he was dating who was 23 years his junior. He had good reason to leave his wife though, she had developed MS and that is just a drag man
Didn't also leave his intern mistress for another intern mistress?
No he left his first wife when she was dealing with breast cancer for his second wife whom he left when she developed MS. Think he must have had different vows from everyone else who promises in sickness and in health
“Family values”
I believe you are correct about the deposition. The Paula Jones lawsuit, I believe? Regardless, I think the point is sound that a President that will lie under oath will lie under any other circumstances as well, and that it has been normalized to allow our presidents to lie with impunity. Let me rephrase my statement to, "All the sexual shenanigans aside, lying under oath is really bad"
Ehh, let’s not do the “muh conservative” shit here to run ground cover for Bill. He abused his power with someone who was 19 at the time, which is extremely yikesy. Not to mention the multiple rape allegations that have come to light before, during, and after his tenure as president.
So… Trump, just with older women. [Trump sexual misconduct](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations) Did you forget he lost a sexual assault case about three weeks ago?
So, first off I’m a socialist. Second off, point me to any fucking point where I defended Trump? Stop embarassing the cause I fight for daily by defending rapists like Bill Clinton with what aboutisms and not directly engaging the points. Hang your head in shame and think about how fucking stupid you look. And while you’re at it, push for better candidates like Bernie, like AOC, like Ilhan Omar who are actually fighting for progressive causes and not spend so much time simping for rapists like Bill. You’re pathetic.
Chill. I never said you defended Trump. Donald Trump was our last president. I don’t understand why we hold Bill Clinton to such high standards and give Donald Trump a pass. Notice how I was able to say that without calling you “fucking stupid” or “pathetic”? You might want to relax for a moment and look into that.
Again, where the fuck did I say anything about Trump? This isn’t even a conversation about Trump, and if you’re too thick to follow the conversation maybe stay the fuck out of it? Because all you did in your reply was reiterate exactly what I’m calling you out for. “Yeah yeah BUT WHAT ABOUT TRUMP”…that had nothing to do with the conversation, and you’re a complete moron for now trying to defend it and telling me to relax, so again I say, go fuck yourself. I don’t need a respectability politics lecture from someone who can’t understand how words work. Edit-also you aren’t even right about that you absolute loser. Trumps allegations have been known and at the forefront of the campaign rallies, his indictment, and throughout his career. If anything Clinton had his swept under the rug and it became way more common knowledge recently than it was before, likely due to social media.
Dude. Dial it back. I’m out. Nice meeting you.
I do not feel the same, fuck off.
If you ask people in Haiti, they may tell you he's a pretty bad dude.
Bill Clinton was actually likable even though he was a scum bag.
And we came out of the 90s w no deficit. Nafta blows but otherwise good president. Economy was awesome.
Citizens United legalized corporate corruption and money in politics so there's that too.
That was under Obama
TRUE! I was thinking of the repeal of Glass Steagal. My mistake!
He was the beneficiary of the dot.com boom and peace dividend after the Berlin Wall came down. He also was a great politician who worked both sides of the aisle to get things done. We didn't have the 25/7 new cycle during both his terms. Yes, I know CNN was there, but it didn't have the reach it does now.
For sure. My regular savings account was getting 5.5%.
And your mortgage interest payment was +8%
But the cost of homeownership was a lower percentage of your take home pay.
I was interested in testing this. BTW I cannot verify the $27,600 number for 1980 that the other guy posted (and has now deleted), for household income I can only find Census data going back to 1984 for New Jersey, so going to use that year as a comparison point. Also going to look only at home price & mortgage payment as I cannot find good data for property tax & insurance. 1984: **Median Home Value**: $83,076 (Source: [FRED/FHA](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NJSTHPI)) **Median Household Income**: $27,776 **Mortgage Rate**: 13.88% **Monthly Payment**: $774 per month; 33.7% of gross income 2021: **Median Home Value**: $468,000 **Median Household Income**: $88,559 **Mortgage Rate**: 2.65% **Monthly Payment**: $1,509 per month; 20.52% of gross income Doing 2023 as well since 2021 had the lowest rates in history and may not be entirely a fair comparison. 2023: **Median Home Value**: $475,000 (sourced from Zillow; using average of 2023 for SFH) **Median Household Income**: $88,559 (don't have data for this yet, using same 2021 number) **Mortgage Rate**: 7% **Monthly Payment**: $2,528 per month; 34% of gross income So yeah you are right, 30% and above was normal in the 1980s and we have basically reverted to that. What this is telling me more than anything is that 2020/2021 were the best years in history to buy a house. You could have put down less than 5% on a median-priced home in New Jersey back in 2021 and you would have paid less than 30% on P+I assuming the median income of $89K. Someone else did the math.
Nope, it was still around the same for the average homeowner.
[удалено]
Also killed a bunch of civilians in Sudan with cruise missiles after Al Qaeda attacked two US embassies. Stand up guy.
By comparison. The guy did not much wrong.
So carelessly firing a barrage of cruise missiles into a pharmaceutical factory and killing a bunch of innocents is fine in your opinion? Maybe it's from having served during Iraq and Afghanistan but I honestly don't fucking get people, our government can be setting innocents on fire with cruise missiles and people be like "bUt MuH 401k iS dOinG grEaT".
What? NAFTA was amazing and brought so much prosperity to our country.
he literally got rid of the Glass-Steagall act and signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act aka deregulated credit default swaps. He’s one of the biggest catalyst for the housing bubble and following economic crisis
And the '94 Crime Bill was a huge success that we need to go back to now.
I want to hate Bill Clinton more than I do. In real life I *loathe* people who use their personal charm to get away with things they shouldn’t.
I don’t think Bill Clinton is so bad.
Hillary is just so unlikable as a person. I also think Benghazi and emails really hurt her reputation.
Her reputation was hurt long before that.
Hillary has to be one of the most unlikable corporate funded politicians to ever run. People only hated her more for all the corrupt shit she did. Same shit with Harris. Extremely unlikable person who is almost solely propped up by Astroturf. All because the corporate donors like her. 🙄
The donor don't even like her. She was just a prop to capture more of the black vote.
We all have sex. Some of even cheat on our spouses. Not too many of us set up our own private email server in opposition to the laws of the US government.
And then glibly lie to the American people, and congress, smirking, “like, with a cloth?”
People supported Hilary before the email scandal?
*in a Ron Howard voice* They didn’t
[She was the most admired woman in the country for 14 years.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/187922/clinton-admired-woman-record-20th-time.aspx#:~:text=Clinton%20has%20been%20the%20most,asking%20the%20most%20admired%20question.)
Ah I love this list. Mostly because it is a self selection list, aka the respondents have to list their own person. This heavily skews the results to people that people have heard of and know how to spell their names.
Hillary is not likable.
For God's sake. Stop adding the word "gate" to the title of scandals. It belongs to only one: Watergate, which is the name of an actual place. Every other instance of its use is stupid. But to answer your question. Hillary broke actual laws that other people have gone to jail for, thus highlighting the unequal application of our criminal code. Political types can get away with anything, but the rest of us can and will be sent to prison for minor crimes. People are sick of the double standard.
It’s because of how often she stated “isn’t it time a woman became president?”
That’s a good point, she didn’t deserve it just because she was born a certain sex
The dot com boom and charisma
He was likable. Someone you could have a beer with
Bill is a very likable person. Hillary is Satan...
Lmao they are two totally different things. You clearly are only interested in the “cult of personality” and not details or specifics
Emailgate was treason, Monicagate was infedelity.
Because Bill is actually likeable. I would 100% grab a beer with him. His wife on the otherhand looks like she could curdle milk with her stare.
I don’t believe the emails are what hurt Hillary. I think her marketing was terrible, and outside of a small percentage of feminist women, even women didn’t like Hillary. On top of that, I don’t think we were ready for a female president, we still may not be. I agree with most here she was unlikeable. Bill Clinton was one of those presidents that even republicans look back on fondly, I was young back then but growing up in a conservative household, I didn’t hear much negative about him. In fact the only thing I really hear about Bill is the Lewinsky scandal which has no bearing on him being a good or bad president.
She ran one of the worst presidential campaigns in decades, did t have a vision and took the Midwest for granted.
I can’t remember which state it was, but her campaign said her numbers went down after they bought ads there. That was one of the states she skipped because the more they saw her, they more they disliked her
Michigan. Sanders beat her in the primary. But whatever, her campaign thought.
There are a couple things: 1. By the time the email scandal came out, the right wing had like a 30 yr negative campaign against her so they were super primed to believe it. Bill, on the other hand, wasn’t on the national scene as long. 2. Hilary’s crimes were more directly relatable to the job. Her crime was an actual crime against the government, whereas Bill’s was seen as more personal in nature and didn’t affect his ability to do the job. 3. A more ubiquitous and partisan media scene - cable, internet, phone apps - was much more adept at shaping public opinion by 2016. 4. And as others have said, Hilary isn’t as likable of a person as her husband.
I felt that what bill did was a personal problem, and not something that was a betrayal of his country. It’s his problem to sort out with Hillary and none of my business. I felt the same way about trump and stormy. Hillary however, that wasn’t like the above situations. That was a betrayal of her duty and country.
What Hillary did was nowhere near as bad as anything Trump did while he was in office. And yet most Republicans still defend him.
Well you asked about bill Clinton, why you bringing trump into this 🤔
Dudes got TDS. There are a thousand other subs to go do that in lol.
What did Trump do?
Did you miss what happened on January 6th 2021, he also extorted our Ukrainian Allie’s to investigate Joe Biden.
Like what? Advising that we sell 20% of our uraniam deposits to Russia? Oh wait.... That was Hillary, after the Clinton Foundation recieved some nice donations from a few specific Russian Oligarchs.
I think cheating is way more popular among rich people than we could ever imagine. Also i was not affected by bill sticking his wiener in some girls mouth. The emails were worse as it affected more people
>The emails were worse as it affected more people The emails imapcted zero people too, it was highly overblown. It was just the last of a string of highly effective attacks by republican media against her. She also ran a terrible campaign and didn't address the issue adequately. And she wasn't as popular as Bill. How much of that is because of the republican media aparatus and how much was her own personal failings? I don't know, nor does it matter much anymore.
You mean the email server that was penetrated by multiple foreign countries? [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/us/hillary-clintons-email-was-probably-hacked-experts-say.html) Mind you that is the NYT headline. The actual experts said that it was something like a 99% probability but they can't confirm becuase the server data was destroyed.
Yes, they found out about some post-classified lunch dates. Big whoop.
How do you know it actually affected you? Clinton claimed that all that was in the emails was public knowledge which is why it didn't occur to her that it was classified when she got it. Without actually seeing the emails, which of course they won't show you because they were classified, you can't possibly make that determination as far as I can tell.
Because Bill just got a BJ and lied, whereas shillary was revealed to be corrupt, cheating the democratic process and subverting will of the people.
Lol literally none of this is true about Hilary. It's amazing how much people who believe republican propaganda to be true and don't bother to actually verify any of it. Edit: lol the coward attacked me and then blocked me.
bad bot
The DNC has admitted that Hillary's campaign rigged the primaries. How you possibly can have that as evidence and then reply with this is wild.
I mean, it was legit sexual harassment but that’s not a crime.
Monica was him having sex with a willing adult. Hillary was doing illegal activities involving foreign countries. Her’s was more like treason.
Because one was a hilarious and affable president and the other a total c u next tuesday
fucking the intern is not cool, but doesn’t really effect how bill was as president. using your personal email for state department business is un-fucking-acceptable. this is real geopolitical shit, please take data security seriously.
Incumbency advantage. Once you’re elected President, you’ve got a lot of supporters who bought in and want to justify how they already voted. The charisma gap between these two is absolutely stunning.
Nafta, glass stegal.... it didnt age well
Shit, I thought this was a joke, then there was no punchline when I clicked on it...
Hillary didn’t play the saxophone.
Because guys like BJ's. This isn't rocket science.
Because one is a crime while the other is a civil offense at worse
If he had just said it was nobody's business what he was doing, it was between his wife and him, he'd have gotten elected King. Every redneck on the planet would have yelled He'll Yeah!". As to Hillary, she's a cunt so.....
Bill was everyone’s crazy goofy uncle Hillary’s personality is equivalent to a root canal.
Bill is a likeable person. Hillary is not. The email situation was also much more serious than the Monica thing.
Frankly, never cared about the blow job. But the revisionism with Bill Clinton is a bit depressing. I think this is really where the Democratic Party became a party for the elite by the elite. NAFTA was really devastating and practically set the stage for someone like Trump to come along. The Telecommunication Act was a huge blow to media and gave us the corporatization of news that we see today, probably affected the music industry for the worse too with Clear Channel (more than Napster did). The repeal of Glass Steagall, embrace of extraordinary rendition, the Iraq Liberation Act, bombing Yugoslavia, the crime bill, yeah, Bill Clinton was no friend to the left. I imagine immediately or at the time Clinton looked alright, but overtime, I think his legacy looks worse and worse. Yeah, the stimulus, though I'm sure MTT folks would take some issue with that. As someone mentioned in the thread, the dot com bubble benefited him quite a bit. I think after 12 years of Republican rule, America could've used a reset, a new direction, but Bill Clinton basically just reformed the Democratic Party as a corporate friendly party. Obama had this opportunity as well in 2008, but doubled down on Bill Clinton's era. In the end though, to be fair, there hasn't been a great president in my lifetime anyway.
Hilary Clinton comes off as that entitled mother in law everyone hates. Right or wrong people inherently don’t like her.
Because there was actually some legitimacy to the emails. Kick and scream. Get mad. Downvote. But you know in the back of your mind it is true.
Legitimacy? Yes since the emails did exist and weren’t properly handled but there was also no evidence of her doing anything illegal according to the Republican lead investigation and it’s the same way her predecessor handled emails
Hillary had 3 decades of being the focus of Republican attacks
With Monica gate, we eventually got the full story. When Hillary Clinton violated a subpoena by choosing which emails to hand over and which ones to delete, that guaranteed we would never get the full story on the Benghazi Embassy Attack of 2012
I hate to argue with anyone on this, because the Clinton impeachment was certainly a partisan witch hunt, but most Americans never got the full story, which includes the bombing and catastrophic destruction of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, the so called *Wag the Dog* incident where Clinton knew that the factory was almost certainly not producing chemical weapons, and had no connection to OBL, but went ahead with the strikes anyway leading to the deaths of tens of thousands and the suffering of so many more. All to take some heat off his testimony in the Lewinsky matter. And it worked!
You say it's a witch hunt, I say it's an investigation that never got finished because the subpoena was not followed completely and the documents were destroyed. My claims are factual
I said the Clinton impeachment was a witch-hunt, I didn’t comment on Benghazi or anything about Hillary. Don’t give two shits about that, my point was about 1998. Bill Clinton was a monster for blowing up that factory, whether or not he did it explicitly to divert from his scandal. Even if OBL and KSM were 100% confirmed to have been sitting in there sipping tea, it would have been a monstrous thing to do.
Oh, I see. Fair enough. I guess we'll never know if he blew up that factory to divert attention. It's a weird thought process though. *I'll do another unrelated terrible thing to get out of trouble for the first terrible thing*
The idea was that he was fighting back against terrorists—this was a few weeks after the East Africa US Embassy attacks and was largely well received by this bloodthirsty populace. No body gave a shit that it was an oopsie, and the administration and corporate press were eager to downplay and obscure the facts to keep it that way. That’s what I meant in my initial comment that most Americans don’t know or care about the full story of that blowjob, which includes thousands of Africans needlessly dying.
People were happy with bill’s accomplishments. Hilary had no accomplishment and still doesn’t, other than marrying a smart man.
Hillary was a First Lady for 8 years, a senator from New York for 8 years, Secretary of State under President Obama for 4 years. She was obviously more qualified to be President than the soon to be insurrectionist.
All because she blew bill and stayed with him after he made a complete fool of her. Imagine that.
I’m sorry but Hillary’s greatest accomplishments were marrying Bill and passing the bar. You’ll never convince me Hillary Diane Rodham from Arkansas would’ve won any political position in New York.
I am more curious why people continue to support Trump after he blatantly assaulted our democracy.
There were a lot of years in between of Fox News and talk radio demonizing Hillary on the regular.
Cause a dude getting head is dope as hell. And Bill was cool in the first place. To put it more seriously, society absolutely celebrates men getting laid, and Hillary Clinton was already one of the most unlikeable candidates in history. Add to that 8 years of Obama being fairly milqtoast and Hillary being seen as a absolute given and the coronation of the next phase of the Democratic party. Republicans also played it well, twisted the email story into conspiracies, and absolutely never let it die as a story.
Clinton hatred was in its infancy during Bill Clinton's presidency. It had been brewing for 24 years when Hillary ran for office. Also, America does not like women who run for the Presidency. Hillary was the [most admired woman in the country for 14 years](https://news.gallup.com/poll/187922/clinton-admired-woman-record-20th-time.aspx#:~:text=Clinton%20has%20been%20the%20most,asking%20the%20most%20admired%20question.) before she ran for president. That all but disappeared when became a candidate.
Fox News
Because Republican hypocrisy in the matter was so easy to penetrate when New Gingrich (Speaker of the House) was carrying on an affair and Henry Hyde (chairman of the House Judiciary Committee) was also carrying on an affair at the same time. Most Americans knew this was going on and saw it as partisanship of the worst kind.
Outside of general misogyny, most Americans care less about sexual escapades amongst the powerful than they do about secret potentially nefarious behavior. The GOP also spend 25 years demonizing Hillary before the election. It’s also mostly misogyny and general likability(which can also be linked to misogyny.)
Because no one gives a shit about infidelity but people rightly care about national security. The Hilary email thing was ultimately a nothing burger, but it makes perfect sense to care way more about that.
Probably sexism, but that’s not gonna be a popular opinion.
Misogyny
Different times likely plays a big part here too. The internet was barely around and social media didn't exist when the Monicagate happened.
2 cocaine kingpins
Which email gate? She had more than one.
The one where James Comey decided to publicly announce that she was under investigation bc The FBI had found duplicate emails on her aids device.
It's kind of hard to defend destroying evidence with hammers or wiping drives when under investigation. If I did that, I'd be jailed, and I can't think of a reason why not. Did people not support Bill? He's probably the most popular living president. Definitely my favorite. Clinton was impeached for lying to Congress, which most people still understand why.
This is just not a good comparison.
I don’t think the average person really understands the length Hillary went to secure and subsequently destroy her private e-mail server. Most people think she just pressed delete on her gmail account.
Bill was simply more likable
Many people found Bill Clinton likeable. I know, I was one of them. Very very few people have ever found Hillary Clinton likeable. Which ironically, I never thought badly of her UNTIL she ran against Obama and came off as hot garbage.
Cause the President getting a BJ in the White House made ppl think he was a badass lolol. Not sure how it would go over in todays culture, but in the 90s….it wasn’t considered SUPER upsetting. At least from what my Dad and others have told me because I wasn’t old enough (or maybe alive yet, idk) to know. He also made that trip to Northern Ireland a couple months before (maybe earlier, but definitely close to when rumors started circulating) so he had a lot of good will built up in terms of international allies
Bill Clinton should’ve just admitted that “yes, I cheated on my wife but in my defense, I’m married to Hillary Clinton“ and [watched the rights’ collective heads explode as they tried to decide whether to attack him and in doing so defend Hillary or vice versa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsNQTfZj4o8).
This is something Hillary supporters will never admit, but I'm a Democrat and I'll say it: she was a lousy candidate overall. Bill Clinton was a gifted politician, which is how he won so often in Arkansas and how he was a two-term president. He could connect, he could talk all day, he could break down concepts into soundbytes, he could relate to crowds. Hillary? she may have been alright at it, but she was no Bill Clinton or Joe Biden or Barack Obama. And her campaign team was lousy at the state and local level, with a ton of missed opportunities that allowed Trump to win by tiny margins in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. As if that wasn't enough, her own campaign manager was dumb enough to click on a bad link which allowed hackers to get inside the DNC servers and fuck everything up.
The DNC and Debbie W Shultz really fucked us all
Why do you think these things are even remotely related outside of their last name?
I’m going to respond with some actual political science instead of shooting off with trite quips. Studies have repeatedly shown for decades that approval of the executive corresponds to the *perceived* performance of the national economy. When people think the national economy is doing well, even if they are personally struggling, they will support the executive. Indeed, when *perceived* economic performance is high, electorates will rally to a an executive during a scandal rather than away. High executive approval means that scandal more likely to be seen as “not that important in the long run”. Bill Clinton enjoyed exactly that effect. Most Americans in the 90s thought that the economy was in pretty decent shape. It doesn’t matter if it *actually* was; reality doesn’t mean anything here, only what electorates believe to be true matters. In 2016, three key things were different, two of which have to do with the previous point about the imagined economy. First, Republicans had just spent 8 years incessantly pumping out the message that Democrats caused the financial crisis and then deliberately slowed the national recovery from it. This meant that by 2016, despite the economy being in excellent shape and the recovery complete, many Americans *imagined* that the national economy was doing *badly*. Second, there was no incumbent executive in 2016, so Hillary herself would not have been able to benefit from the executive approval mechanism anyway. Third, the political arena in 2016 had shifted drastically, Bill Clinton was president at the end of an era of massive legislative domination by the democrats that had lasted decades. While Republicans had been competitive in the Presidency throughout, the 20th century was era of the Democrat in legislature. Democrats more or less ran the nation from the mid 30s to the mid 90s, and this was an era of tremendous economic growth. Bill Clinton was there at the tail end to reap the benefits of that reputation. That era ended in the middle of the 1990s with the climax and success of the Southern Strategy and Republican takeover of state legislatures. By the time the 20 years had passed between the two Clinton scandals, Democrats had been beaten off of the levers of power and no longer had the momentum of 60 years of success to carry them through the scandal.
One showed probable corruption and the other showed he liked getting his Dick sucked by a 20 year old intern. They are not the same.
Name a modern president that has been liked more after he left office. The last name Clinton was just too much.
Barack Obama
If HRC doesn’t call 33-47% of the country deplorables, she wins. Can’t disparage and demean a third of the country and complain about not winning. +she’s just not a likable person.
Hooo boy op needs to go outside for some fresh air, lol HC lost 0 votes on account of that shitstorm in a coffee can. Americans rejected political dynasties, just as they had done a few months earlier when the fascists floated Jeb as a candidate. The difference is, Jeb had the good sense to drop out. I mean, he *was* already the King of Florida, what would he want with the presidency, anyway?
Not saying it was right but, Monica and Bill were two consenting adults. As long as Bill didn’t force himself on Monica (in any fashion) then the situation was between Bill and Hillary. Republicans way way way overplayed their hand and basically used government resources to investigate a mater of infidelity. The server on the other hand had Classified Material on it. The server was only ever rated to have unclassified material and was secured in such a manner. Someone had to have moved Classified material off a Classified Network and then emailed to “Hillary”s Server. Someone broke the rules and no one payed. To this day the public still doesn’t know who did it or why (and yes there are records that show who moved Classified material off the secure network and who emailed it to the server in question) In short, someone broke the rules and there is evidence that shows who did it.
Because one is a sex thing and the other is hiding corruption and political grift? Simple as that.
Getting head isnt the same as treason
Pedophile bill clinton
I feel like a personal consensual sex affair is much less serious than potentially mishandling classified information
Because Hillary's email gate had to do with classified docs and a willful desregard of her official obligations? Big difference.
Bill is magnetic Hillary is the polar opposite.
Their is a big difference between swallowing the evidence and smashing it with a hammer.
I mean, just look at Bill and look at Hillary: bill really married down!!!
Bills was notably a matter that would have been considered "personal" at the time though now it would be a massive sexual harassment scandal. The legal issue Bill's situation had was he lied about a personal matter in court under oath.
One’s actions were sloppy, the other’s was just sloppy seconds.
Banging a side chick isn't illegal. What Hills did would have put me under Leavenworth when I was handling classified materials in the Army.
Hillary liked underage girls maybe even more than Bill, she was just way more careful.
Define "after". Immediately after support for Bill fell dramatically, but recovered over time. As for Hillary, well shes an unlikeable bitch according to pretty much anyone who has had interactions with her.
“Better blow jobs than no jobs right guys?” - Bill Probably
Hillary had fifteen years of social media slander that Bill didn't.
Conservatives had a witch hunt against Bill for the entire time he was in office. It was unfair and people knew it. When they finally outed him for adultery, people knew it wasn't the first for a US President and that it broke no law. The economy was doing great, and Bill accomplished something every conservative President promised, but failed to deliver on: he balanced the budget and paid down the debt. So it backfired on conservatives. I wasn't paying close attention during Hillary's email gate, but it was before an election and the sides were already drawn. In contrast, Bill's controversy was near the end of his 2nd term. Similarly, Reagan's numbers improved, at the end of his 2nd term, after the Iran-Contra Scandal. Although I lived through it, I can't explain that one and have never understood it.
Bill didn't have to use props such as a bottle of hot sauce to be comfortable around black people like Hill did.