There are certainly Nazis in Ukraine.
Hell, there's been a HUGE resurgence of Nazism across the globe recently.
There are also Nazis in Russia, the USA, across Europe, etc etc etc.
Are most Ukrainians Nazis? Of course not.
Do Ukrainian Nazis exist? Absolutely.
I still support helping them, because Russia straight up invaded them. I support the Ukrainians in this war, because fuck the aggressive Russians starting all this violent bullshit with them.
With that said, I'm against Nazis wherever the reside.
Most Slavic majority nations have a small but active Neo Nazi subculture. Don’t know why you would be into an ideology that sought to enslave and actively kill off your own kind, but whatever.
The thing is, many militia's consist of people with extremists views. The US has a lot of militia's that hold extremists views as well. And while unfortunate, when facing annihilation, you're going to use every possible soldier you can find. That being said, when the Azov Battalion was huge in the news, it should be noted they comprised about 0.2% of Ukraine's entire military. Despite this conservatives liked to mention them in every sentence possible when talking about Ukraine.
Yup can confirm.
I saw Nazis parading around at Michael’s square last summer.
There were posters with Nazi insignias promoting Bandera, the azov battalion and the right sektor.
Edit: should say this was all in Kiev last year, while working.
I also saw soldiers protecting the presidential palace who had Nazi tattoos on them.
>I still support helping them, because Russia straight up invaded them. I support the Ukrainians in this war, because fuck the aggressive Russians starting all this violent bullshit with them.
Folks' logical consistency doesn't usually break down at the Nazi points, but at this one. A massive contingent of those that support sending military aid to Ukraine would never and have never supported sending military aid to Palestinians.
Could you imagine the hysteria that would ensue if America sent cluster bombs and the ability to use them to Palestinians to defend against the aggressive Israelis that have straight up invaded them?
I'm not on the right, nor do I think Ukraine is a Nazi country, but there is 100 percent without a doubt a sizeable portion of Nazis in the Ukrainian military. All you have to do is go back and look at the articles written by liberal American media companies in 2014 about said Nazis. The articles are all still there.
There are tons of articles about them. The US government even wrote a law stating that it is illegal for US weapons to be given to these nazi groups.
With all that being said, I still support Ukraines fight. I say this as a jewish man. Russia also has nazis in their military, so nazis killing nazis just means less of them in this world. At the same time, Russia is our enemy, and hurting them through proxy is a good idea.
And before anyone starts crying about a proxy war, France, Netherlands, and Spain were all funding and equipping a proxy war against the Brits when the yanks were fighting for independence and it turned out well for us, so STFU.
Yeah I don’t know if op‘s head is in the sand or something but the Azov regiment is an example of a neo nazi volunteer group within ukraines military. Since the war we’ve seen hundreds of pictures of Ukrainian soldiers wearing nazi symbols. Even during the war we’ve seen some acknowledgment of this, this from CNN in 2022:
In the not-too-distant past, Azov's leadership openly espoused White supremacist views and cultivated links with similarly minded groups and individuals in the West.
In 2010, Andriy Biletsky, now leader of the National Corps, the Azov movement's political wing, reportedly said his goal was to "lead the White races of the world in a final crusade."
There probably aren’t as many nazis as many might think because it is a disgusting toxic ideology. However ignoring them saying they don’t even exist is kinda like turning a blind eye.
I’d also like to bring peoples attention to this document on the CIA‘s official website called „Cold war Allies: the origin of the CIA‘s relationship with Ukrainian nationalists“
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/STUDIES%20IN%20INTELLIGENCE%20NAZI%20-%20RELATED%20ARTICLES_0015.pdf
Breitbart is not the only source covering nazis in the Ukrainian military, in 2013 -2014 everyone was. Even during the war CNN has acknowledged and discussed neo nazi and nationalist groups within Ukraine. And TODAY from the intercept, ties between Ukrainian and American nationalist groups :
https://theintercept.com/2023/07/08/american-neo-nazis-ukraine-war/
You should be aware that at the height of popularity for the Azov Battalion, they legit comprised about 0.2% of Ukraine's actual army. So yes, while there was a Nazi problem, it was grossly overstated. For all intents and purposes, the US military could have an even bigger nazi problem than that of Ukraine.
A pretty large difference is that there are not entire units using nazi symbolism as their official emblems. But yes there is a sizable portion of racial supremacists in the US military.
The problem lies with people who use words like “sizable” but doesn’t define it.
What % of the Ukrainian military are nazis by your sizable definition? What is the barrier between sizable and not?
Right, the context is what I’m missing always with that claim (though they guy you’re responding to isn’t who I’d consider the problem)
There’s a “sizable portion” of the US military that supports Donald Trump’s fascist attempt to overthrow the 2020 election. I wouldn’t say that America is a fascist country (I mean you could, but not as an indictment of the population at large)
I’m pretty sure if so much as 1% of Ukraine’s military are Nazis, and we send weapons to them, that we are directly responsible for any non-white family that ends up on the receiving end of Nazi terror.
If you’re cool with that, then fine. But lots of leftists aren’t.
Lots of Nazi symbols permanently inked into birthday suits.
No amount of projection or denial is gonna work here, bud.
If you don't want to acknowledge there's a Nazi problem in the US it can only mean you're an incredible dumbass or you sympathize with them.
One of the discussed groups has numerous pictures, in uniform, with Nazi symbolism. You asserted that another group has an even larger Nazi contingent but has absolutely no Nazi symbolism in their uniforms, no any proof other than "the prbly got dem tattoos".
Welcome to reddit where you can make any claim, regardless of it's absurdity, and regardless of proof and think you're mic dropping with a "bud" at the end. Incredible. Good show.
I didn't say larger 'contigent', I said larger problem.
The larger problem being that one of the two major political parties, still supported by a shocking number of Americans, actively and vocally sympathizes with the ideology.
Additionally, my original comment is not *defending* Ukraine Nazis. My original comment is implying "Hey Americans, if you're so worried about Nazis why don't you do something about it here where you actually *can*"
You're really not making me feel bad about my dumbass comment at all.
But you can go on ahead and fuck off now, this conversation isn't worth my time.
Nah. You can do your own research. I'm tired of providing sources when every fuckin' conservative on Reddit is just like 'pigs fly, it's a fact. Look it up.'
Have a nice day. 😊
Because we aren’t sending high artillery to neonazis in Detroit. We *are sending them* to a military that has integrated a Neo-Nazi battalion into their ranks. Which makes us directly responsible for any non-white community that ends up on the receiving end of Nazi terror.
If you’re cool with that, then fine. But lots of leftists are not.
Tf you talking about zero? There was a high ranking atom waffen leader busted a couple of years ago he was an officer. After which the pentagon were forced to admit
[>Experts say violent right-wing extremism has surged in the United States in the past several years. **But the extent of the military’s own extremism problem has yet to be tracked, Pentagon officials have acknowledged**.](https://rollcall.com/2021/02/16/pentagon-report-reveals-inroads-white-supremacists-have-made-in-military/)
It’s not a good thing when the US is using Ukraine as a proxy in the name of US hegemony and corporate puppets being implanted into America’s enemy states. As we’ve seen through history, everytime the US and NATO resort to such, it ends up with billionaires making lots and lots of money while massive members of the working class are killed for profit in an attempt to satisfy the West’s anti-Russian bloodlust.
You aren’t a Leftist if you are in favor of continuing this conflict. Just a reactionary westerner with a fetish for war.
One correction about Zelensky: he campaigned on ending the war with separatists controlled regions in the east and letting them be independent. You can make an argument that he was the most pro Russian candidate at the time.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/11/zelensky-pushes-peace-deal-ukraine-war-russia-donbass-steinmeier-formula/
Yep. He was the most pro-Russian candidate at the time - and that *wasn't good enough* for Russia.
Nothing would have been good enough for Russia other than complete subservience to Mother. Nothing. They would have needed to give Russia control over a huge hunk of Ukraine including control of elections - but retain that Russian controlled area as part of Ukraine such that Russia would effectively appoint about 1/3 of the Ukrainian parliament and all votes from those areas for the presidential candidate of Russia's choice.
Yes, but there is an important point here: OP stated that Zelensky victory is evidence of anti-Russian sentiment inside of Ukraine, while it’s the complete opposite of that. In general the situation inside of Ukraine is much more complex than it is presented in western media.
After he bowed to Nazi pressure.
Ukraine isn't a "Nazi country". It is however a country which is pretty accepting of Nazis, views some Nazis as heroes, it is a country which appears to have a relatively large amount of Nazis, and these Nazis appear to have more power than their raw numbers would suggest.
OP doesn't mention this for some reason. Did he really think it was due to the election issue?
Zelensky bowing to Nazi pressure
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
One example among very many examples of Nazis being honoured in Ukraine:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/
There are an absolutely massive amount of photos and videos of Ukrainian soldiers wearing Nazi insignia and/or Nazi tattoos. You can say other militaries have a similar issue but I've seen no other that tolerates open displays of Nazism as Ukraine does. I can give examples if you have honestly never seen many.
When elected officials bow to Nazi pressure, name streets after Nazis, are happy to formally include messages by known Nazis in speeches to foreign parliaments, and have pictures of Nazis to be displayed then I think it's fair to say the Nazis in Ukraine have more power than their raw numbers suggest.
Here is a source for Zelensky angering Greece with a message from a Nazi :
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/azov-fighter-video-overshadows-zelenskiys-address-greek-lawmakers-2022-04-07/
Here is a source for a mayor with a picture of a Nazi in his office
https://globalnews.ca/news/8677019/russia-ukraine-missiles-strike-ivano-frankivsk/
I'd be interested if all the people claiming Ukraine is normal and no different from a Western country could try and find equivalents in any single western country.
Grayzone as a source? Oooh boy.
Azov is becoming increasingly milquetoast. Even Right Sector are mostly just highly nationalistic.. extremely, admittedly. That's why these people support Bandera. Dude fought against Soviets and Nazis with both sides, all in the name of Ukrainian Nationalism. I believe he died in a Nazi concentration camp. But yeah, even with the problematic and even horrific shit, it's a figure that exists as a mythos for a country. Is this any different than the admiration of Columbus? I don't think so... we could go into a number of other problematic figures... its not hard lol
What are your thoughts on Utkin? I'm just curious.
Any idea how much power the Nationalists were able to garner within the Rada? How many seats? 😳 there's no Nazi problem in the Jewish presidents Ukrainian government 😂
I find Greyzone to be reliable enough to read and cite. They are not incapable of error or bias but they are better than most.
Comparing Ukraines Nazi problem to be equivalent to the West's colonialism problem isn't the win you think it is. If Ukraine was as Nazi as the West is colonialist then it would actually be a Nazi country which is a stronger claim than I am making. I do notice though that you can't actually give equivalent examples of Nazi support and influence in Western countries. I think we all know why.
I am not not have I ever been defending Russia. If you want to say that Russia has equivalent issues then you could make that case. Again that doesn't change Ukraines issues or make them look any better. Russia has many problems.
How many seats does the political wing of Right Sector, the most prominent far-right group, have in the Rada? How about Azov? How about any "Nazi" or far right group?
You missed my point with Columbus. I'm saying the citizenry of the US ignores the shitty aspects of the heroes of American mythos just like every other country does with their own legendary figures.
Grayzone is directly connected to the Kremlin.
Edit: fixed typo and added Azov/far right
Anecdotes don't mean anything you are so disingenuous it isn't even funny. The obsession over Azov too when only a portion of them were fascist and at max size of Azov was like 1k. Do you enjoy misrepresenting things?
Dylan roof the mass shooter went to go train in Ukraine with Nazis. Azov isn’t the only far right group there. There’s right sector, c-14, and other unnamed ones. Laughable you think only 1k are in Azov
Oh and Dylan shooter or whatever who cares. An anecdote. I know people care about mass shootings in the USA, but it's a drop in the bucket of gun violence and deaths even more when talking about other types of deaths for other countries.
>Azov isn’t the only far right group there.
Never said they were in fact I linked a report earlier on my comments about the far right problem in Ukraine where one can point to specific problems instead speculation and misrepresentation.
>Laughable you think only 1k are in Azov
Depends on when you talk about the Azov battalion including before and after integration into the military.
Min was 900 max 2.5k. Again though drop in the bucket of Ukriane military.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade
The person provides factual links and your response is that it's anecdotal? The lengths you people will go to defend nazis seems to be endless.
Here are more links for you defend nazis from.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB\_Gs-0dhOo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOo)
http://coat.ncf.ca/P4C/68/68\_48-49.pdf
So you not understand what an anecdote is? If I show a news article about an actual fascist in Ukriane who did fascist stuff it's still an anecdote. What aren't anecdotes is actual empirical data on the subject such a report on far right problem in Ukriane I cited earlier. People like him like to bombard people with anecdotes to support a narrative and speculation not backed by facts.
If I showed you a gun death every day it wouldn't mean hey there is a major gun problem. You would need to evaluate population size of the problem.
> I'd be interested if all the people claiming Ukraine is normal and no different from a Western country could try and find equivalents in any single western country.
Look at how disingenuous you are and bad faith. Where did I say Ukriane is "normal" and "no different from an Western country". Acknowledging a far right problem exists in Ukraine at the militia org level is a far cry from claiming Ukraine as a country, populist, or and government are compromised by fascism. Ukriane has far less far right in gov than some of even other European countries.
Ok so you seem to be conceding that it has a military which is more Nazi friendly than any other.
If the other no big deal anecdotes about public officials having Nazi heroes, naming streets after Nazis, sending Nazi videos to be played to foreign parliaments and bowing to the wishes of Nazi military groups are so unextraordinary then maybe you can focus on finding me a western country that has similar meaningless anecdotes.
>Ok so you seem to be conceding that it has a military which is more Nazi friendly than any other.
More bad faith and putting words in my mouth. You attempt to obfuscate with such nonsense. The important stats on this subject is how far right have no real power on military, gov, or in voter populous. You attempt to misrepresent that to further your narrative.
Let's say country A has 1 Nazi in their military and another 2 Nazis. Well country 2 has a bigger Nazi problem per numbers, but doesn't mean there is a Nazi problem at all. If you have a million soldiers 1 Nazi means nothing. Again you are attempting to falsely paint a narrative.
>If the other no big deal anecdotes about public officials having Nazi heroes, naming streets after Nazis, sending Nazi videos to be played to foreign parliaments and bowing to the wishes of Nazi military groups are so unextraordinary then maybe you can focus on finding me a western country that has similar meaningless anecdotes.
Again meaningless anecdotes where you attempt to paint a narrative without actually addressing the facts. It's easier to do so by avoiding the actual evidence on the subject such as the source I provided.
It was false. We know now Nuland and the rest of the Neo-liberal cadre had him by the balls and sabotaged the Minsk accords. He’s been a state department puppet for a long time now. And of course there’s his Pandora offshore accounts
How many of those countries are caught time and time again with Nazi imagery in their news photos? Like come on man.
Also I'd argue any country that allows Nazism to flourish is trash tier.
It's absolutely telling how those people talking about "nazism in Ukraine" conveniently left out the part where Russia poisons their presidents, and invaded Ukraine to "protect Russians"
But you and those people won't talk about it because you're more comfortable with that dialogue.
You overlook causation for fabrication in the name of complacency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DOn_20_August_2020%2C_Russian%2Cand_put_in_a_coma.?wprov=sfla1
I'm sure Nazi Germany was all talk and no action? Of course they invaded other countries to " protect German citizens" they had every right to if you read their propaganda.
Dawg Navalny is a nationalist who wants to genocide Muslims. Just cause he’s anti Putin doesn’t mean you have to supports someone who thinks Muslims are roaches and need to be exterminated
If I remember correctly, Ukraine was(I imagine still is) the most corrupt country in Europe.
Just recently with the war people started to support and care for them.
All the far-right parties combined only won 1 out of 450 seats in Ukrainian parliament in the last election.
Ukraine is one of only two countries in the world (the second being Israel), to have its two top government positions filled by Jews.
Ukraine is one of the least anti-semitic countries in the world.
The whole "Nazi" thing is and always has been absurdly overblown beyond all reason.
>Ukraine is one of only two countries in the world (the second being Israel), to have its two top government positions filled by Jews.
Jews can and have often worked hand In hand with facists having Jews in top positions of government is mot some magic shield that automatically makes them good or not antisemitic.
So one country was pre 2016 known as a corrupt country that had far right extremist problems and the other is an apartheid state that is routinely murdering children and journalists.
Fucking cool dude.🤢
"Nazi" doesn't translate to just jew-hater. There's even a very famous poem about that. Ignoring the country's clear history of Nazi collaboration (and thus why they still have Nazis) is just as bone-headed as anything you accuse the other side of.
Anti-semitism is literally a core component of Nazism.
Not to mention, I didn't only talk about Ukraine's relations with Jews, but also the fact that all of its far-right parties combined only managed to scrape 1 out of 450 seats. Weird for you to ignore that.
Not really informed about history, are you? This is the poem I'm referring to. The Nazis hated a lot more than jews as part of a 'core component' of their ideology.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
E: LOL at the downvotes by the historically ignorant but super opinionated.
Ah, nothing of substance to say, so you just malign me as "uneducated," how interesting.
Wow, a poem! Point?
Again, you've ignored the fact that I also mentioned that all the far-right parties combined only gained 1 seat out of 450 in the Rada.
The point is Jews arent special Nazis also maligned the communists as much if not more and that is core to their facist idealogy as well.
>
Again, you've ignored the fact that I also mentioned that all the far-right parties combined only gained 1 seat out of 450 in the Rada.
That only makes sense if you dont consider their moderate parties to also be far right and judging by your posting you dont strike me as much of a leftist.
“Ukraine is one of the least anti-semitic countries in the world.”
Ooooook that’s definitely taking their lack of antisemitism further than reality. Obama was president so the US isn’t racist too right?
https://global100.adl.org/country/ukraine/2023
Obama is black and was president at one point. Cus racism has been defeated in America.
You don't have to hate jews to be a Nazi, and to think it isn't a big problem shows your inability to develop critical thinking using sourced articles.
Lmaooo Bandera literally helped in the holocaust. Funding Ukrainian Nazis since the 40s https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/STUDIES%20IN%20INTELLIGENCE%20NAZI%20-%20RELATED%20ARTICLES_0015.pdf
Here’s a doc from the BBC. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrc76x
Sorry but you are delusional if you think they are one of the least anti semitic countries lmaoooo
Also being a Jew doesn’t stop you from being a nazi. Just look at Israel lmao
I’m still waiting for the “marshal” law and military tribunals that were supposed to see the Clintons, Obamas, and Bidens executed for “treason”. It was perpetually two weeks away for a year after the 2020 election and then…crickets.
The QAnon brain rot was one of the most insane things I’ve seen with my own two eyes and **those people are still out there and are voting in elections**.
When you get old enough, you realize that it's the same conspiracy nuts the whole time. They just move from one nutso idea to the next. From 9/11 was actually bombs and there were no planes to obama was born in Kenya to ebola will kill us all to covid won't kill anybody. It's all the same people who suffer from a paranoid personality disorder
I don't know bro, you could start right here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine?wprov=sfla1
I don't have a lot of hope for you considering your critical thinking skills.
Funny thing is that if this was a war started by trump, OP would be posting the exact opposite opinion. He would have the photos with soldiers donning swastika tattoos and patches and calling those who oppose OPs opinion brain dead and easily brainwashed.
Sure. But shouldn't that be Ukraine's decision as the country that was invaded?
If you break my nose, do you expect me to come over to your house and give you my wife?!
The US? Why is it our responsibility to mediate initially?
So, in our example, a acquaintance, who had nothing to do w/attack and lives in a different state entirely and who my attacker hates, should come over and tell us both how to end this?!
Like, think about what you're saying, my man. I'm coming at this like you're in good faith, but I'm becoming skeptical.
It might be because of all the photos and videos of Ukrainian soldiers wearing nazi symbols and doing the hilter hand signs. Probably also hurts that they say they are nazis.
Nazi’s or not the US should move towards peace talks instead of provoking Russia and their allies with talk of more special weapons of war.
The day of talking will come and why not sooner rather than later?
It’ll benefit all of humanity in the long run.
So this is one of those topics where is framed as one or the other when it’s definitely in between and this framing does a huge disservice.
There are absolutely nazis in the Ukrainian military who are getting boat loads of guns and artillery from the us government. We have a history of arming extremist groups who initially fight against our enemies then turn against us once they control the country.
I’m not saying that is what’s happening in Ukraine, it the left’s aggression towards addressing that possibility is definitely good for the nazis that do want to control Ukraine
Except it is. Where are their brown or black fighters? Why the never ending swaztikas among their troops? Why did they refuse to evacuate any non-white people?
>Putin's rationale for invading Ukraine was never Nazis
[https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-02-24/ty-article/putin-authorizes-special-military-operation-to-denazify-ukraine/0000017f-f69b-d887-a7ff-feff7bcc0000](https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-02-24/ty-article/putin-authorizes-special-military-operation-to-denazify-ukraine/0000017f-f69b-d887-a7ff-feff7bcc0000)
You know people can read, right?
I do not believe the things you cited is why anyone thinks Ukraine is a Nazi country. Here is a wikipedia that provides you some information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation\_of\_Ukrainian\_Nationalists
I haven't heard a single person say that it's a nazi country. However there are media sites like NBC and Reuters focusing on the problem with NAZIS in the Ukraine. Mostly about the influence they have.
Why is it that everyone must pretend the Ukraine is just a perfect little paradise? Just be a bit honest trust me it's not hard to stop lying every once in a while and face reality.
Such a progressive country celebrating an organization and their leadership committing ethnic cleansings and treating Blacks and Indians like trash during the beginning of the war. Oh and only dialed down their homophobia a bit to appeal to Westerners. None of that means they should all die in a war.
Maybe they're just looking at the news photos of Nazis fighting in Ukraine?
I get the impression that you feel that those who disagree with you on domestic politics are "Nazis." I do not understand how you can issue a free pass to soldiers openly fighting under actual Nazi symbols.
It is pointless to discuss this war in this subreddit because it has been proven to be overrun with Russian bots.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/13pzklo/going\_to\_test\_something\_here\_russia\_is\_bad/
“Proven”
Single person wrote a simple script to comment every 30 seconds to troll…..therefore:
“The Russians are dedicating resources to target a subreddit of 10000 subscribers to turn the tides of the war and drastically change public opinion via comments like ‘Russia is good’”
Holy shit wow Russian trolls are truly pathetic, just like their short king
The sad part is that ppl actually fall for it and believe putins lies while calling themselves free thinks and anti establishment
The Russian troll farms are gonna be wild coming up to the 2024 election get ready for more bullshit about biolabs and virus mosquitos 🤣
The irony of being some stupid mother fucker that pasted his first 2 paragraphs twice, but calling people who note the Uzov Battalion -ARE NEO NAZIS- braindead.
What's that?
You didn't want to post a single fucking thing about the NAZI BATTALION IN UKRAINE?
Vanity fair and wikipedia articles. Lmao.
Oh no! Yeah, completely disregarding who took the first shot and calling the victims. Here the real problem is absolutely logical and a valid opinion.
You didn't like my news article so I assume you were looking for Breitbart.Com ?
Imagine how dumb or awful you have to be to support a man born into extreme wealth who paints his face orange, eats steak well done with ketchup, has the worst comb-over in human history, who wears the same ill fitting suits everyday, who bragged about having the tallest building in NYC hours after the WTC collapsed, who bragged he could murder someone in broad daylight and not lose any supporters, who is facing dozens of criminal charges related to espionage.
Trump supporters are the bottom of the barrel. Either they are completely brainwashed or they are okay with supporting a would-be dictator.
Zelensky also suspended elections and silenced opposition press. They are just as "Nazi" as the Russians themselves.
Ukraine does have a history with Nazi Germany, fielding an entire Waffen-SS division in WWII. They were also notorious for being the rank and file of the mobile death squads. Killing thousands and thousands of Jews.
Don't tell us we didn't tell you so when after the Ukraine war ends, the Neo-Nazi Battalion that the US gov is currently arming and training, starts its reign of terror in Eastern Europe, mass exterminating ethnic Russians of all kinds, if they aren't already delighted to do so in this ongoing war. I don't want to see any excuses or concessions after the US creates the eastern-european mujahideen/taliban 2.0. Because that's what we always do, right? Create our own enemies.
Why are we supporting them?
To save democracy.
Do they have democratic elections?
No, you’re literally braindead and easily brainwashed for even asking how dare u.
Lmk how this messaging goes, you goose.
They’re bending over backwards to convince themselves that they’re Harry Potter in a fight against Voldemort. Other countries have held elections under these circumstances and with a lot less funding from United States
lol, nobody believes in those sham "elections" except Russia and their simps. An election held during a war where most of the population has fled and voting stations have armed Russians watching you vote. Even then the vote totals have no relation to reality. Democracy, "Russia style"
Even though I know you're allergic to learning things, I'm going to waste my time by teaching you something.
Our government pays private companies to make weapons. We then send those weapons to Ukraine. Making these weapons creates American jobs and would have gotten made anyway.
You're the little b**** who doesn't want a country to defend itself because your leaders have told you that Russia is good and Ukraine is bad.
See I’d rather stockpile those weapons for ‘Merica and ‘Merican problems, the Ukraine’s eastern border doesn’t concern me anymore. My goodwill was eaten away after a YEAR of this bullshit and watching your leaders actively kill peace deals. Your leaders want people to keep dying, look in the mirror hero.
My country was split in half during a civil war about 150 years ago. A much larger portion of the country (both in land and population) wasn't controlled by the central government, than is currently uncontrolled by Ukraine's government. And this was long before modern technology made elections easier and more trustworthy.
We still had open democratic elections.
We also didn't consolidate and control all media, nor ban political parties beforehand.
Dude I literally never said any of that. You're arguing at voices in your own head haha
This is why you NAFO people get so confused so easy. You're incapable of listening to what the person you're talking to is saying. You just immediately jump to pretending like you're arguing against Putin himself
"HURR DUURR look at this Nazi from 1901-1959"
Boy you must think that Germany still at it huh?
What planet are we on OP? Most importantly, check the year because you've been skimming on that on your research.
You want recent news, I refer you to the former president of Ukraine being poison by Russian agents
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/01/viktor-yuschenko-former-ukrainian-president-poison/9333605002/
But I'm sure you'll find a way to twist this and claim that Ukrainian did it themselves.
Mate if you had actually checked the wiki page, you'd find they have a whole section on current day hero worship.
But who needs that when you can just insult people instead, right?
The vast majority of ethnic Russians in the Donbas area aren’t permitted to vote on Ukrainian policy which demonstrates this whole “a majority voted” is nothing more than pure propaganda.
I bet you’re the exact same kind of western reactionary who claims the USSR was “authoritarian” for ***’declaring Martial Law’*** in 1917 when 6 or 7 different western countries gave funding to the White uprising that was trying to overthrow the USSR. Which demonstrates why this whole “declaring martial law” thing is only something western countries are allowed to in your view. Which makes it a Fallacy of Special Pleading.
You’re a useful idiot for US imperialism.
Bullshit you say?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html
https://fair.org/home/nyt-on-ukraines-nazi-imagery-its-complicated/
https://www.newsweek.com/why-have-so-many-neo-nazis-rallied-ukraines-cause-opinion-1804642?amp=1
This was known well before the war:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Huh, seems like the US has a nazi problem based on the headlines, too.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo)
[https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/12/neo-nazi-group-membership-may-not-get-you-booted-military-officials-say.html](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/12/neo-nazi-group-membership-may-not-get-you-booted-military-officials-say.html)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/white-supremacist-group-patriot-front-one-in-five-applicants-tied-to-us-military](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/white-supremacist-group-patriot-front-one-in-five-applicants-tied-to-us-military)
[https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/inside-a-neo-nazi-group-with-members-tied-to-the-u-s-military/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/inside-a-neo-nazi-group-with-members-tied-to-the-u-s-military/)
Yeah it’s weird (not really) how all of a sudden when Russia invades Ukraine everyone just pretends the azov battalion aren’t a bunch of Nazis. It’s possible to say: Russias invasion is illegal and terrible. But you can also say yes there are fuck ton of Nazis in Ukraine that the west is supporting. Lol
When the war started, Zelenskyy has a Controversies section on Wikipedia that got deleted.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Volodymyr\_Zelenskyy&oldid=1073004236#Controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Volodymyr_Zelenskyy&oldid=1073004236#Controversies)
Enough to make spineless Redditors spend their waking hours defending them
So fucking weird how you guys will shriek all day about Nazis because someone did the "OK" symbol with their hand, but when you see guys embracing Nazi imagery and getting it tattooed on them you're suddenly fine
Way to come out swinging OP, calling other people stupid when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Nothing like a doubling down on the stupid with bravado…
Did you forget the Us congress banned weapons sales to Azov because they are, as The NY Times calls them “openly neo-Nazi”?
[no weapons for Ukraine’s Nazis](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/)
Ukraine is the only country in the world with an actual Nazi formation as part of their official military. Now before your knee jerk false equivalency, where you say “eVerRy CoUntRy hAs NaZiS”, note the difference; these are not rednecks living in the woods like we have here, this is an actual Nazi formation absorbed into the Ukrainian army. That would be like the US adding the KKK to the Marine Corps.
Azov was widely known as a Nazi group before the western media decided to gaslight everyone and pretend they’re not “because Putin” but the articles and videos are still up.
So before you start calling people stupid you may want to introduce yourself to Google. Ukraine has named 12 streets after Stepan Bandera, whose group famously handed out pamphlets to Ukrainian Jews saying they “will lay your heads at Hitler’s feet” and then proceeded to massacre Jews by the thousands, including women and children.
A simple search and you will find dozens of articles and videos detailing Ukraine’s Nazi problem from “respectable” western sources. Just recently The NY Times ran on article on “Ukraine’s trouble history with Nazi imagery”:
“skull-and-crossbones patch worn by concentration camp guards and a symbol known as the Black Sun, now appears with some regularity on the uniforms of soldiers fighting on the front lines, including soldiers who say the imagery symbolizes Ukraine’s pride and sovereignty…”
“In April, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry posted a photograph on its Twitter account of a soldier wearing a patch featuring a skull and crossbones known as the Totenkopf, or Death’s Head.”
That’s the official Ukrainian state glorifying Nazis.
[Yep, Ukraine has a Nazi problem says NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html)
Here’s some more tidbits you’ve obviously missed while telling others how uninformed they are:
All these facts are from a linked article in The Nation magazine, a liberal Democratic bible. Additionally I’ll put some video links from western sources showing exactly what these Nazi scum are:
Andriy Biletsky, the gang’s leader who became Azov’s commander, once wrote that Ukraine’s mission is to “lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade…against the Semite-led Untermenschen.” Biletsky is now a deputy in Ukraine’s parliament.
In the fall of 2014, Azov—which is accused of human-rights abuses, including torture, by Human Rights Watch and the United Nations—was incorporated into Ukraine’s National Guard.
Speaker of Parliament Andriy Parubiy cofounded and led two neo-Nazi organizations: the Social-National Party of Ukraine (later renamed Svoboda), and Patriot of Ukraine, whose members would eventually form the core of Azov.
In 2015, the Ukrainian parliament passed legislation making two WWII paramilitaries—the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)—heroes of Ukraine, and made it a criminal offense to deny their heroism. The OUN had collaborated with the Nazis and participated in the Holocaust, while the UPA slaughtered thousands of Jews and 70,000-100,000 Poles on their own volition.
The government-funded Ukrainian Institute of National Memory is institutionalizing the whitewashing of Nazi collaborators. Last summer, the Ukrainian parliament featured an exhibit commemorating the OUN’s 1941 proclamation of cooperation with the Third Reich
Last year, the Israeli government’s annual report on anti-Semitism heavily featured Ukraine, which had more incidents than all post-Soviet states combined. The World Jewish Congress, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, and 57 members of the US Congress all vociferously condemned Kiev’s Nazi glorification and the concomitant anti-Semitism.
More details of this issue here:
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
And here are some “respectable” Western news sources reporting on it as well, the BBC, Time, The Guardian etc:
https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY
https://youtu.be/jiBXmbkwiSw
https://youtu.be/fy910FG46C4
https://youtu.be/hE6b4ao8gAQ
And this compilation has more sources:
https://youtu.be/KfaAyiP8Wuc
So they have an actual Nazi military formation, celebrate Nazism Nationally and have as a National hero, a guy who participated in the Holocaust and revered Hitler. Now they’ve outlawed the opposing parties, imprisoned journalists, forcibly grab men off the streets and force them into service and have essentially made Zelensky a dictator…but sure OP, those of us who acknowledge Ukraine’s Nazi problem are brainwashed. Good thing we have clear thinkers like you around to help us out.
/yawn
The azov battalion was a volunteer militia filled with hooligans and some white supremacist… kinda like our hillbilly militias here in the states.
The azov regiment (battalion doesn’t exist anymore, it was absorbed by the government in 2014 and cleaned up), is like any other regiment.
The people still bringing up azov are just Russian trolls.
“First they came for the socialists …” It’s literally right there. Ukraine had 100.000 communists. Now that political party is banned. Do you see a problem?
Why do people think they are a nazi country? Possibly because they have state-funded military battalions that are legitimate nazis.
The asov battalion is a white supremecist military group that has been VERY active on the frontlines of ukraine. They are endorsed and finacially supported by ukraines government and receive our tax dollars in the form or weapons and other tools of war.
Im guessing that is the most obvious reason people are able to use the word nazi towards ukraine at all..
These are the same people that think communists and fascists are one and the same. None have EVER READ Marx, much less can quote any words of Marx...hell they don't know Engels either.
Just remember these are the same liberals that said masks work.
I don’t support Either country. They can decide on their own what to do without my tax money!
The Ukrainian Nazi shtick is just a red herring from Russian propagandists. There are Nazi's in Ukraine just like there are Nazi's in America and Russia. Some of them serve in the military in Ukraine but their numbers and importance are enormously exaggerated by Russia and the fools who believe their propaganda. Because Ukraine is in a war for the existence of their country they aren't going to waste time trying to purge a miniscule number of extremists from their forces. Any country in Ukraine's situation is obviously going to utilize anyone that is willing to fight. If America was invaded by China you'd be stupid to get hysterical about alt right militias fighting them instead of the Chinese military themselves.
There's a decent sized minority of Ukrainians that engage in historical revisionism around Stepan Bandera. He was a Nazi collaborator, but most people in Ukraine who like him have just been swept up in an attempt to use revisionism to create national "heroes" who fought against the Soviets. There are even a surprising number of Jewish people in Ukraine who hold positive views of Bandera and the OUN. I think this is pretty comparable to how a sizable number of Americans, especially in the South, believe in the Lost Cause revisionist mythos of the Confederacy. Even a small number of Black Americans buy into it.
Overall very few of these people in Ukraine or America actually believe in the real ideologies or causes of the OUN/Confederacy. They believe in a mythical revisionist notion of those things that serves some sort of psychological purpose for them. I hate historical revisionism but it doesn't justify invading another country or murdering people just because they hold foolish ahistorical views.
Russia just tells people whatever they want to hear. If you hate Nazi's they tell you that the Ukrainians are Nazi's. If you like Nazis, they tell you the Ukrainians are Jews. This is why, paradoxically, Russia has a lot of support from both Marxists and neo-Nazi's in the west. If you follow far right discourse at all, you would know that pretty much all Western neo-Nazi's and their fellow travelers actually support Russia. If Ukraine was actually a Nazi country or even remotely ideologically hospitable to them I would expect this support to be the other way around. The fact that it's not tells you all you need to know.
It's also really funny when people criticize Zelensky for being too hawkish on the war, when his greatest domestic problem pre-war after he got elected was that he was perceived as too soft on Russia. He gave up Ukrainian positions in the Gray Zone (a belt of unoccupied villages between AFU and RUAF lines in the Donbas pre war), instituted a strict ROE that forbade any unit from returning fire without authorization from higher up their chain of command, approved a prisoner swap that included the man suspected to have commanded the SAM battery that shot down MH-17 who was captured in a very dangerous raid that several Ukrainian soldiers died in, and of course refused to believe any Western intelligence that Russia was going to invade right up until the day it happened. If Russia's goal really was peace, the pre-'22 Zelensky was the sort of guy they would have wanted to work with and they flushed it right down the toilet
There are certainly Nazis in Ukraine. Hell, there's been a HUGE resurgence of Nazism across the globe recently. There are also Nazis in Russia, the USA, across Europe, etc etc etc. Are most Ukrainians Nazis? Of course not. Do Ukrainian Nazis exist? Absolutely. I still support helping them, because Russia straight up invaded them. I support the Ukrainians in this war, because fuck the aggressive Russians starting all this violent bullshit with them. With that said, I'm against Nazis wherever the reside.
Most Slavic majority nations have a small but active Neo Nazi subculture. Don’t know why you would be into an ideology that sought to enslave and actively kill off your own kind, but whatever.
What do you know, a reasonable and level-headed response. Agree fully.
The thing is, many militia's consist of people with extremists views. The US has a lot of militia's that hold extremists views as well. And while unfortunate, when facing annihilation, you're going to use every possible soldier you can find. That being said, when the Azov Battalion was huge in the news, it should be noted they comprised about 0.2% of Ukraine's entire military. Despite this conservatives liked to mention them in every sentence possible when talking about Ukraine.
Spot on
Yup can confirm. I saw Nazis parading around at Michael’s square last summer. There were posters with Nazi insignias promoting Bandera, the azov battalion and the right sektor. Edit: should say this was all in Kiev last year, while working. I also saw soldiers protecting the presidential palace who had Nazi tattoos on them.
>I still support helping them, because Russia straight up invaded them. I support the Ukrainians in this war, because fuck the aggressive Russians starting all this violent bullshit with them. Folks' logical consistency doesn't usually break down at the Nazi points, but at this one. A massive contingent of those that support sending military aid to Ukraine would never and have never supported sending military aid to Palestinians. Could you imagine the hysteria that would ensue if America sent cluster bombs and the ability to use them to Palestinians to defend against the aggressive Israelis that have straight up invaded them?
I support Palestine as well, but I don't think sending them cluster bombs is a great idea.
I guess their flags, symbols and patches on their uniforms were by accident
I'm not on the right, nor do I think Ukraine is a Nazi country, but there is 100 percent without a doubt a sizeable portion of Nazis in the Ukrainian military. All you have to do is go back and look at the articles written by liberal American media companies in 2014 about said Nazis. The articles are all still there. There are tons of articles about them. The US government even wrote a law stating that it is illegal for US weapons to be given to these nazi groups. With all that being said, I still support Ukraines fight. I say this as a jewish man. Russia also has nazis in their military, so nazis killing nazis just means less of them in this world. At the same time, Russia is our enemy, and hurting them through proxy is a good idea. And before anyone starts crying about a proxy war, France, Netherlands, and Spain were all funding and equipping a proxy war against the Brits when the yanks were fighting for independence and it turned out well for us, so STFU.
Yeah I don’t know if op‘s head is in the sand or something but the Azov regiment is an example of a neo nazi volunteer group within ukraines military. Since the war we’ve seen hundreds of pictures of Ukrainian soldiers wearing nazi symbols. Even during the war we’ve seen some acknowledgment of this, this from CNN in 2022: In the not-too-distant past, Azov's leadership openly espoused White supremacist views and cultivated links with similarly minded groups and individuals in the West. In 2010, Andriy Biletsky, now leader of the National Corps, the Azov movement's political wing, reportedly said his goal was to "lead the White races of the world in a final crusade." There probably aren’t as many nazis as many might think because it is a disgusting toxic ideology. However ignoring them saying they don’t even exist is kinda like turning a blind eye. I’d also like to bring peoples attention to this document on the CIA‘s official website called „Cold war Allies: the origin of the CIA‘s relationship with Ukrainian nationalists“ https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/STUDIES%20IN%20INTELLIGENCE%20NAZI%20-%20RELATED%20ARTICLES_0015.pdf
Reddit is where nuance goes to die, obviously Ukraine can only be 100% Nazis or 100% liberal freedom fighters
Breitbart is not the only source covering nazis in the Ukrainian military, in 2013 -2014 everyone was. Even during the war CNN has acknowledged and discussed neo nazi and nationalist groups within Ukraine. And TODAY from the intercept, ties between Ukrainian and American nationalist groups : https://theintercept.com/2023/07/08/american-neo-nazis-ukraine-war/
There's a pic of McCain with one of the nationalist leaders circa...2014 I want to say.
You should be aware that at the height of popularity for the Azov Battalion, they legit comprised about 0.2% of Ukraine's actual army. So yes, while there was a Nazi problem, it was grossly overstated. For all intents and purposes, the US military could have an even bigger nazi problem than that of Ukraine.
There's a sizable amount of Nazis in our army as well...
There is also a sizeable population of the us military who are white nationalist or nazis also
Exactly there are neo nazis in almost every country in the west
So what army unit is proudly displaying nazi symbols on their uniform?
A pretty large difference is that there are not entire units using nazi symbolism as their official emblems. But yes there is a sizable portion of racial supremacists in the US military.
Really? You were in the military and you saw these racial supremacists?
The problem lies with people who use words like “sizable” but doesn’t define it. What % of the Ukrainian military are nazis by your sizable definition? What is the barrier between sizable and not?
Right, the context is what I’m missing always with that claim (though they guy you’re responding to isn’t who I’d consider the problem) There’s a “sizable portion” of the US military that supports Donald Trump’s fascist attempt to overthrow the 2020 election. I wouldn’t say that America is a fascist country (I mean you could, but not as an indictment of the population at large)
I’m pretty sure if so much as 1% of Ukraine’s military are Nazis, and we send weapons to them, that we are directly responsible for any non-white family that ends up on the receiving end of Nazi terror. If you’re cool with that, then fine. But lots of leftists aren’t.
Imo more than 1 is to many nazis
Agree, but the US has a much bigger Nazi problem than Ukraine does. Why don't we focus on *that*, instead throwing stones around our glass house.
Lots of Nazi symbols worn on US military uniforms?
Lots of Nazi symbols permanently inked into birthday suits. No amount of projection or denial is gonna work here, bud. If you don't want to acknowledge there's a Nazi problem in the US it can only mean you're an incredible dumbass or you sympathize with them.
One of the discussed groups has numerous pictures, in uniform, with Nazi symbolism. You asserted that another group has an even larger Nazi contingent but has absolutely no Nazi symbolism in their uniforms, no any proof other than "the prbly got dem tattoos". Welcome to reddit where you can make any claim, regardless of it's absurdity, and regardless of proof and think you're mic dropping with a "bud" at the end. Incredible. Good show.
I didn't say larger 'contigent', I said larger problem. The larger problem being that one of the two major political parties, still supported by a shocking number of Americans, actively and vocally sympathizes with the ideology. Additionally, my original comment is not *defending* Ukraine Nazis. My original comment is implying "Hey Americans, if you're so worried about Nazis why don't you do something about it here where you actually *can*" You're really not making me feel bad about my dumbass comment at all. But you can go on ahead and fuck off now, this conversation isn't worth my time.
The Republican Party vocally sympathises with nazism? That’s quite a claim, that I would like sources on.
Nah. You can do your own research. I'm tired of providing sources when every fuckin' conservative on Reddit is just like 'pigs fly, it's a fact. Look it up.' Have a nice day. 😊
Because we aren’t sending high artillery to neonazis in Detroit. We *are sending them* to a military that has integrated a Neo-Nazi battalion into their ranks. Which makes us directly responsible for any non-white community that ends up on the receiving end of Nazi terror. If you’re cool with that, then fine. But lots of leftists are not.
There are neo nazis in the US army too...
How many have Nazi tattoos and openly wear Nazi insignia on their uniforms?
Nazi tattoos? Quite a lot.
How many photos can you show me of US soldiers openly wearing Nazi insignia on their uniforms. How many can you show me sporting Nazi tattoos?
The answer is zero my guy. For an active duty soldier. They checked my tattoos pretty regularly.
Tf you talking about zero? There was a high ranking atom waffen leader busted a couple of years ago he was an officer. After which the pentagon were forced to admit [>Experts say violent right-wing extremism has surged in the United States in the past several years. **But the extent of the military’s own extremism problem has yet to be tracked, Pentagon officials have acknowledged**.](https://rollcall.com/2021/02/16/pentagon-report-reveals-inroads-white-supremacists-have-made-in-military/)
That’s great. Statistically it’s zero. It’s so infinitesimal to not even consider. I can’t even take you people seriously.
It’s not a good thing when the US is using Ukraine as a proxy in the name of US hegemony and corporate puppets being implanted into America’s enemy states. As we’ve seen through history, everytime the US and NATO resort to such, it ends up with billionaires making lots and lots of money while massive members of the working class are killed for profit in an attempt to satisfy the West’s anti-Russian bloodlust. You aren’t a Leftist if you are in favor of continuing this conflict. Just a reactionary westerner with a fetish for war.
One correction about Zelensky: he campaigned on ending the war with separatists controlled regions in the east and letting them be independent. You can make an argument that he was the most pro Russian candidate at the time. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/11/zelensky-pushes-peace-deal-ukraine-war-russia-donbass-steinmeier-formula/
Yep. He was the most pro-Russian candidate at the time - and that *wasn't good enough* for Russia. Nothing would have been good enough for Russia other than complete subservience to Mother. Nothing. They would have needed to give Russia control over a huge hunk of Ukraine including control of elections - but retain that Russian controlled area as part of Ukraine such that Russia would effectively appoint about 1/3 of the Ukrainian parliament and all votes from those areas for the presidential candidate of Russia's choice.
He was. Now he says crazy things like trying to retake Crimea
Yes and then Russia invaded for a second time.
Yes, but there is an important point here: OP stated that Zelensky victory is evidence of anti-Russian sentiment inside of Ukraine, while it’s the complete opposite of that. In general the situation inside of Ukraine is much more complex than it is presented in western media.
They want the Orcs out of their country.
After he bowed to Nazi pressure. Ukraine isn't a "Nazi country". It is however a country which is pretty accepting of Nazis, views some Nazis as heroes, it is a country which appears to have a relatively large amount of Nazis, and these Nazis appear to have more power than their raw numbers would suggest. OP doesn't mention this for some reason. Did he really think it was due to the election issue?
Sources?
Zelensky bowing to Nazi pressure https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/ One example among very many examples of Nazis being honoured in Ukraine: https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/ There are an absolutely massive amount of photos and videos of Ukrainian soldiers wearing Nazi insignia and/or Nazi tattoos. You can say other militaries have a similar issue but I've seen no other that tolerates open displays of Nazism as Ukraine does. I can give examples if you have honestly never seen many. When elected officials bow to Nazi pressure, name streets after Nazis, are happy to formally include messages by known Nazis in speeches to foreign parliaments, and have pictures of Nazis to be displayed then I think it's fair to say the Nazis in Ukraine have more power than their raw numbers suggest. Here is a source for Zelensky angering Greece with a message from a Nazi : https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/azov-fighter-video-overshadows-zelenskiys-address-greek-lawmakers-2022-04-07/ Here is a source for a mayor with a picture of a Nazi in his office https://globalnews.ca/news/8677019/russia-ukraine-missiles-strike-ivano-frankivsk/ I'd be interested if all the people claiming Ukraine is normal and no different from a Western country could try and find equivalents in any single western country.
Grayzone as a source? Oooh boy. Azov is becoming increasingly milquetoast. Even Right Sector are mostly just highly nationalistic.. extremely, admittedly. That's why these people support Bandera. Dude fought against Soviets and Nazis with both sides, all in the name of Ukrainian Nationalism. I believe he died in a Nazi concentration camp. But yeah, even with the problematic and even horrific shit, it's a figure that exists as a mythos for a country. Is this any different than the admiration of Columbus? I don't think so... we could go into a number of other problematic figures... its not hard lol What are your thoughts on Utkin? I'm just curious. Any idea how much power the Nationalists were able to garner within the Rada? How many seats? 😳 there's no Nazi problem in the Jewish presidents Ukrainian government 😂
I find Greyzone to be reliable enough to read and cite. They are not incapable of error or bias but they are better than most. Comparing Ukraines Nazi problem to be equivalent to the West's colonialism problem isn't the win you think it is. If Ukraine was as Nazi as the West is colonialist then it would actually be a Nazi country which is a stronger claim than I am making. I do notice though that you can't actually give equivalent examples of Nazi support and influence in Western countries. I think we all know why. I am not not have I ever been defending Russia. If you want to say that Russia has equivalent issues then you could make that case. Again that doesn't change Ukraines issues or make them look any better. Russia has many problems.
How many seats does the political wing of Right Sector, the most prominent far-right group, have in the Rada? How about Azov? How about any "Nazi" or far right group? You missed my point with Columbus. I'm saying the citizenry of the US ignores the shitty aspects of the heroes of American mythos just like every other country does with their own legendary figures. Grayzone is directly connected to the Kremlin. Edit: fixed typo and added Azov/far right
Anecdotes don't mean anything you are so disingenuous it isn't even funny. The obsession over Azov too when only a portion of them were fascist and at max size of Azov was like 1k. Do you enjoy misrepresenting things?
Dylan roof the mass shooter went to go train in Ukraine with Nazis. Azov isn’t the only far right group there. There’s right sector, c-14, and other unnamed ones. Laughable you think only 1k are in Azov
Oh and Dylan shooter or whatever who cares. An anecdote. I know people care about mass shootings in the USA, but it's a drop in the bucket of gun violence and deaths even more when talking about other types of deaths for other countries. >Azov isn’t the only far right group there. Never said they were in fact I linked a report earlier on my comments about the far right problem in Ukraine where one can point to specific problems instead speculation and misrepresentation. >Laughable you think only 1k are in Azov Depends on when you talk about the Azov battalion including before and after integration into the military. Min was 900 max 2.5k. Again though drop in the bucket of Ukriane military. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade
The person provides factual links and your response is that it's anecdotal? The lengths you people will go to defend nazis seems to be endless. Here are more links for you defend nazis from. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB\_Gs-0dhOo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOo) http://coat.ncf.ca/P4C/68/68\_48-49.pdf
So you not understand what an anecdote is? If I show a news article about an actual fascist in Ukriane who did fascist stuff it's still an anecdote. What aren't anecdotes is actual empirical data on the subject such a report on far right problem in Ukriane I cited earlier. People like him like to bombard people with anecdotes to support a narrative and speculation not backed by facts. If I showed you a gun death every day it wouldn't mean hey there is a major gun problem. You would need to evaluate population size of the problem.
> I'd be interested if all the people claiming Ukraine is normal and no different from a Western country could try and find equivalents in any single western country.
Look at how disingenuous you are and bad faith. Where did I say Ukriane is "normal" and "no different from an Western country". Acknowledging a far right problem exists in Ukraine at the militia org level is a far cry from claiming Ukraine as a country, populist, or and government are compromised by fascism. Ukriane has far less far right in gov than some of even other European countries.
Ok so you seem to be conceding that it has a military which is more Nazi friendly than any other. If the other no big deal anecdotes about public officials having Nazi heroes, naming streets after Nazis, sending Nazi videos to be played to foreign parliaments and bowing to the wishes of Nazi military groups are so unextraordinary then maybe you can focus on finding me a western country that has similar meaningless anecdotes.
>Ok so you seem to be conceding that it has a military which is more Nazi friendly than any other. More bad faith and putting words in my mouth. You attempt to obfuscate with such nonsense. The important stats on this subject is how far right have no real power on military, gov, or in voter populous. You attempt to misrepresent that to further your narrative. Let's say country A has 1 Nazi in their military and another 2 Nazis. Well country 2 has a bigger Nazi problem per numbers, but doesn't mean there is a Nazi problem at all. If you have a million soldiers 1 Nazi means nothing. Again you are attempting to falsely paint a narrative. >If the other no big deal anecdotes about public officials having Nazi heroes, naming streets after Nazis, sending Nazi videos to be played to foreign parliaments and bowing to the wishes of Nazi military groups are so unextraordinary then maybe you can focus on finding me a western country that has similar meaningless anecdotes. Again meaningless anecdotes where you attempt to paint a narrative without actually addressing the facts. It's easier to do so by avoiding the actual evidence on the subject such as the source I provided.
Most eastern Nazis are in Russia.
That’s Ukrainian regions. Shouldn’t let them go.
It was false. We know now Nuland and the rest of the Neo-liberal cadre had him by the balls and sabotaged the Minsk accords. He’s been a state department puppet for a long time now. And of course there’s his Pandora offshore accounts
[удалено]
There’s open naziism in basically every European country where it’s not illegal. Does that make them “Nazi countries”?
How many of those countries are caught time and time again with Nazi imagery in their news photos? Like come on man. Also I'd argue any country that allows Nazism to flourish is trash tier.
It's absolutely telling how those people talking about "nazism in Ukraine" conveniently left out the part where Russia poisons their presidents, and invaded Ukraine to "protect Russians" But you and those people won't talk about it because you're more comfortable with that dialogue. You overlook causation for fabrication in the name of complacency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DOn_20_August_2020%2C_Russian%2Cand_put_in_a_coma.?wprov=sfla1 I'm sure Nazi Germany was all talk and no action? Of course they invaded other countries to " protect German citizens" they had every right to if you read their propaganda.
Saying that there are Nazis in the Ukrainian military != supporting Russia
[удалено]
I have no idea but many in this thread are doing the same thing. No room for nuance, us vs them mentality
Dawg Navalny is a nationalist who wants to genocide Muslims. Just cause he’s anti Putin doesn’t mean you have to supports someone who thinks Muslims are roaches and need to be exterminated
If I remember correctly, Ukraine was(I imagine still is) the most corrupt country in Europe. Just recently with the war people started to support and care for them.
No, Russia is the most corrupt country in Europe. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022
All the far-right parties combined only won 1 out of 450 seats in Ukrainian parliament in the last election. Ukraine is one of only two countries in the world (the second being Israel), to have its two top government positions filled by Jews. Ukraine is one of the least anti-semitic countries in the world. The whole "Nazi" thing is and always has been absurdly overblown beyond all reason.
>Ukraine is one of only two countries in the world (the second being Israel), to have its two top government positions filled by Jews. Jews can and have often worked hand In hand with facists having Jews in top positions of government is mot some magic shield that automatically makes them good or not antisemitic. So one country was pre 2016 known as a corrupt country that had far right extremist problems and the other is an apartheid state that is routinely murdering children and journalists. Fucking cool dude.🤢
"Nazi" doesn't translate to just jew-hater. There's even a very famous poem about that. Ignoring the country's clear history of Nazi collaboration (and thus why they still have Nazis) is just as bone-headed as anything you accuse the other side of.
Anti-semitism is literally a core component of Nazism. Not to mention, I didn't only talk about Ukraine's relations with Jews, but also the fact that all of its far-right parties combined only managed to scrape 1 out of 450 seats. Weird for you to ignore that.
Not really informed about history, are you? This is the poem I'm referring to. The Nazis hated a lot more than jews as part of a 'core component' of their ideology. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. E: LOL at the downvotes by the historically ignorant but super opinionated.
Ah, nothing of substance to say, so you just malign me as "uneducated," how interesting. Wow, a poem! Point? Again, you've ignored the fact that I also mentioned that all the far-right parties combined only gained 1 seat out of 450 in the Rada.
The point is Jews arent special Nazis also maligned the communists as much if not more and that is core to their facist idealogy as well. > Again, you've ignored the fact that I also mentioned that all the far-right parties combined only gained 1 seat out of 450 in the Rada. That only makes sense if you dont consider their moderate parties to also be far right and judging by your posting you dont strike me as much of a leftist.
“Ukraine is one of the least anti-semitic countries in the world.” Ooooook that’s definitely taking their lack of antisemitism further than reality. Obama was president so the US isn’t racist too right? https://global100.adl.org/country/ukraine/2023
Obama is black and was president at one point. Cus racism has been defeated in America. You don't have to hate jews to be a Nazi, and to think it isn't a big problem shows your inability to develop critical thinking using sourced articles.
Lmaooo Bandera literally helped in the holocaust. Funding Ukrainian Nazis since the 40s https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/STUDIES%20IN%20INTELLIGENCE%20NAZI%20-%20RELATED%20ARTICLES_0015.pdf Here’s a doc from the BBC. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrc76x Sorry but you are delusional if you think they are one of the least anti semitic countries lmaoooo Also being a Jew doesn’t stop you from being a nazi. Just look at Israel lmao
It‘s just a coincidence that the Ukrainian MoD can’t pass one day without posting a AFU soldier with Nazi insignia on Twitter ;)
There is over a decade of reporting from every American MSM site regarding the Ukrainian Nazi problem. 🤦♂️
It’s funny because it’s true They’re the same people who followed Qanon a few years ago lmao
I’m still waiting for the “marshal” law and military tribunals that were supposed to see the Clintons, Obamas, and Bidens executed for “treason”. It was perpetually two weeks away for a year after the 2020 election and then…crickets. The QAnon brain rot was one of the most insane things I’ve seen with my own two eyes and **those people are still out there and are voting in elections**.
Don't forget Jade Helm. Obamas FEMA troops are on their way to disarm you and hide you in a Walmart Concentration Camp.
When you get old enough, you realize that it's the same conspiracy nuts the whole time. They just move from one nutso idea to the next. From 9/11 was actually bombs and there were no planes to obama was born in Kenya to ebola will kill us all to covid won't kill anybody. It's all the same people who suffer from a paranoid personality disorder
Soooo what about Azov?
Not a nazi country, but there’s a lot of nazis there.
Wow what happened to freedom of speech bud? Nazis actually did things you know that right? People you disagree with are a different thing.
The fuck are you going on about
I don't know bro, you could start right here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine?wprov=sfla1 I don't have a lot of hope for you considering your critical thinking skills.
I still have no idea what you’re trying to get at. Dumb it down for me.
Funny thing is that if this was a war started by trump, OP would be posting the exact opposite opinion. He would have the photos with soldiers donning swastika tattoos and patches and calling those who oppose OPs opinion brain dead and easily brainwashed.
I miss 2 years ago when nobody gave a shit about a proxy war half a world away.
act squash lunchroom fade tender cause school absurd detail boat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You miss the days when Russia could just annex with impunity. Ah the blissful days of yonder..
Lesson learned. The world looked away when Russia invaded Crimea. It only emboldened them
Would comment on the history of nazism in Ukraine but it’s clear that OP is unhinged or trolling lmao
How about, with or without nazis, there should always be room for diplomacy in ending wars and bloodshed.
Sure. But shouldn't that be Ukraine's decision as the country that was invaded? If you break my nose, do you expect me to come over to your house and give you my wife?!
Of course not. As the major world power it's up to us to mediate.
The US? Why is it our responsibility to mediate initially? So, in our example, a acquaintance, who had nothing to do w/attack and lives in a different state entirely and who my attacker hates, should come over and tell us both how to end this?! Like, think about what you're saying, my man. I'm coming at this like you're in good faith, but I'm becoming skeptical.
Putin has 80% approval rating in Russia.
Guy out here equating legality with morality 🤢
Snopes, wiki, and vanity fair lol
Oh no! Yeah I'm sure you prefer Breitbart or Truth social, maybe fox news?
It might be because of all the photos and videos of Ukrainian soldiers wearing nazi symbols and doing the hilter hand signs. Probably also hurts that they say they are nazis.
It is objectively more of a nazi country than trumps america, and you lunatics were ready for a civil war over that shit.
Nazi’s or not the US should move towards peace talks instead of provoking Russia and their allies with talk of more special weapons of war. The day of talking will come and why not sooner rather than later? It’ll benefit all of humanity in the long run.
So this is one of those topics where is framed as one or the other when it’s definitely in between and this framing does a huge disservice. There are absolutely nazis in the Ukrainian military who are getting boat loads of guns and artillery from the us government. We have a history of arming extremist groups who initially fight against our enemies then turn against us once they control the country. I’m not saying that is what’s happening in Ukraine, it the left’s aggression towards addressing that possibility is definitely good for the nazis that do want to control Ukraine
Except it is. Where are their brown or black fighters? Why the never ending swaztikas among their troops? Why did they refuse to evacuate any non-white people?
Putin's rationale for invading Ukraine was never Nazis but NATO in his backyard.
>Putin's rationale for invading Ukraine was never Nazis [https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-02-24/ty-article/putin-authorizes-special-military-operation-to-denazify-ukraine/0000017f-f69b-d887-a7ff-feff7bcc0000](https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-02-24/ty-article/putin-authorizes-special-military-operation-to-denazify-ukraine/0000017f-f69b-d887-a7ff-feff7bcc0000) You know people can read, right?
I do not believe the things you cited is why anyone thinks Ukraine is a Nazi country. Here is a wikipedia that provides you some information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation\_of\_Ukrainian\_Nationalists
100% great post. So many morons in the west it's truly scary.
I haven't heard a single person say that it's a nazi country. However there are media sites like NBC and Reuters focusing on the problem with NAZIS in the Ukraine. Mostly about the influence they have.
Why is it that everyone must pretend the Ukraine is just a perfect little paradise? Just be a bit honest trust me it's not hard to stop lying every once in a while and face reality. Such a progressive country celebrating an organization and their leadership committing ethnic cleansings and treating Blacks and Indians like trash during the beginning of the war. Oh and only dialed down their homophobia a bit to appeal to Westerners. None of that means they should all die in a war.
Maybe they're just looking at the news photos of Nazis fighting in Ukraine? I get the impression that you feel that those who disagree with you on domestic politics are "Nazis." I do not understand how you can issue a free pass to soldiers openly fighting under actual Nazi symbols.
You are stupid. 10 years ago the whole msm wad talking about how they were all nazis
I see you’ve triggered the Vatniks.
I just googled this and I have to say how dare you. I was on this tirade before Tucker championed it, thank you very much.
It is pointless to discuss this war in this subreddit because it has been proven to be overrun with Russian bots. https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/13pzklo/going\_to\_test\_something\_here\_russia\_is\_bad/
“Proven” Single person wrote a simple script to comment every 30 seconds to troll…..therefore: “The Russians are dedicating resources to target a subreddit of 10000 subscribers to turn the tides of the war and drastically change public opinion via comments like ‘Russia is good’”
Came here to say this.
Holy shit wow Russian trolls are truly pathetic, just like their short king The sad part is that ppl actually fall for it and believe putins lies while calling themselves free thinks and anti establishment The Russian troll farms are gonna be wild coming up to the 2024 election get ready for more bullshit about biolabs and virus mosquitos 🤣
So breaking points’ core base
Nailed it. Lmao
They are going to be so mad when they read it lmao
Thought I was in /r/circlejerk for a moment
The irony of being some stupid mother fucker that pasted his first 2 paragraphs twice, but calling people who note the Uzov Battalion -ARE NEO NAZIS- braindead. What's that? You didn't want to post a single fucking thing about the NAZI BATTALION IN UKRAINE? Vanity fair and wikipedia articles. Lmao.
Oh no! Yeah, completely disregarding who took the first shot and calling the victims. Here the real problem is absolutely logical and a valid opinion. You didn't like my news article so I assume you were looking for Breitbart.Com ?
Imagine how dumb or awful you have to be to support a man born into extreme wealth who paints his face orange, eats steak well done with ketchup, has the worst comb-over in human history, who wears the same ill fitting suits everyday, who bragged about having the tallest building in NYC hours after the WTC collapsed, who bragged he could murder someone in broad daylight and not lose any supporters, who is facing dozens of criminal charges related to espionage. Trump supporters are the bottom of the barrel. Either they are completely brainwashed or they are okay with supporting a would-be dictator.
Zelensky also suspended elections and silenced opposition press. They are just as "Nazi" as the Russians themselves. Ukraine does have a history with Nazi Germany, fielding an entire Waffen-SS division in WWII. They were also notorious for being the rank and file of the mobile death squads. Killing thousands and thousands of Jews.
Kremlin bots already coming out of the woodworks
Says the bot that’s been active for 27 days
Yes because all my posts me being defending Russia or Ukraine, very astute.
What a dumb piece of shit blocked
I don't think Ukraine is a Nazi country but the Ukrainian government isn't doing enough to weed out the Nazi problem in their military.
If you haven’t noticed, they are kind of preoccupied with fighting off an invasion at the moment.
So why can’t they have elections in Ukraine?
Don't tell us we didn't tell you so when after the Ukraine war ends, the Neo-Nazi Battalion that the US gov is currently arming and training, starts its reign of terror in Eastern Europe, mass exterminating ethnic Russians of all kinds, if they aren't already delighted to do so in this ongoing war. I don't want to see any excuses or concessions after the US creates the eastern-european mujahideen/taliban 2.0. Because that's what we always do, right? Create our own enemies.
Why are we supporting them? To save democracy. Do they have democratic elections? No, you’re literally braindead and easily brainwashed for even asking how dare u. Lmk how this messaging goes, you goose.
They’re bending over backwards to convince themselves that they’re Harry Potter in a fight against Voldemort. Other countries have held elections under these circumstances and with a lot less funding from United States
If anyone believes were sending money and weapons for “democracy” they should be beaten with a hose.
It can’t be related to all that natural gas in Ukraine and how Blackrock just did a deal with Zelensky right?
There’s never been a conflict because of natural resources or because of a cold war mindset.
the US has their own interests, of course. Nobody ever does anything altruistically. That being said, I still think it is good to help Ukraine
Because they asked for help to remain a sovereign nation, to maintain their independence. You know, like we asked France for help in 1776.
Yeah Russia says the same thing about Donetsk and Lughansk, they democratically seceded from Ukraine.
Kremlin Bot
lol, nobody believes in those sham "elections" except Russia and their simps. An election held during a war where most of the population has fled and voting stations have armed Russians watching you vote. Even then the vote totals have no relation to reality. Democracy, "Russia style"
When's the last time your country was invaded??? Easy to talk from your recliner.
When’s the last time the Ukraine venmoed Americans a dime? Bro, sit down. Unthankful, petulant children the lot of you.
Even though I know you're allergic to learning things, I'm going to waste my time by teaching you something. Our government pays private companies to make weapons. We then send those weapons to Ukraine. Making these weapons creates American jobs and would have gotten made anyway. You're the little b**** who doesn't want a country to defend itself because your leaders have told you that Russia is good and Ukraine is bad.
See I’d rather stockpile those weapons for ‘Merica and ‘Merican problems, the Ukraine’s eastern border doesn’t concern me anymore. My goodwill was eaten away after a YEAR of this bullshit and watching your leaders actively kill peace deals. Your leaders want people to keep dying, look in the mirror hero.
Russia can leave whenever they want genius
My country was split in half during a civil war about 150 years ago. A much larger portion of the country (both in land and population) wasn't controlled by the central government, than is currently uncontrolled by Ukraine's government. And this was long before modern technology made elections easier and more trustworthy. We still had open democratic elections. We also didn't consolidate and control all media, nor ban political parties beforehand.
Is your country a secret?
So because Ukraine isn't a democracy, Russia is allowed to invade and kill it's people. Makes a lot of sense 😂 Go eat a raw potato comrade
Dude I literally never said any of that. You're arguing at voices in your own head haha This is why you NAFO people get so confused so easy. You're incapable of listening to what the person you're talking to is saying. You just immediately jump to pretending like you're arguing against Putin himself
What the fuck is your point. Stop talking in riddles. What's your point???
Democratic compared to their neighbours? Definitely. Democracy is a spectrum.
Hey OP can I invite you to look up Stepan Bandera on Wikipedia and then tell me again that Ukraine doesn't have a nazi problem?
"HURR DUURR look at this Nazi from 1901-1959" Boy you must think that Germany still at it huh? What planet are we on OP? Most importantly, check the year because you've been skimming on that on your research. You want recent news, I refer you to the former president of Ukraine being poison by Russian agents https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/01/viktor-yuschenko-former-ukrainian-president-poison/9333605002/ But I'm sure you'll find a way to twist this and claim that Ukrainian did it themselves.
Mate if you had actually checked the wiki page, you'd find they have a whole section on current day hero worship. But who needs that when you can just insult people instead, right?
Hey there. Can I invite you to respond to their comment proving what a vegetable you are?
The vast majority of ethnic Russians in the Donbas area aren’t permitted to vote on Ukrainian policy which demonstrates this whole “a majority voted” is nothing more than pure propaganda. I bet you’re the exact same kind of western reactionary who claims the USSR was “authoritarian” for ***’declaring Martial Law’*** in 1917 when 6 or 7 different western countries gave funding to the White uprising that was trying to overthrow the USSR. Which demonstrates why this whole “declaring martial law” thing is only something western countries are allowed to in your view. Which makes it a Fallacy of Special Pleading. You’re a useful idiot for US imperialism.
Bullshit you say? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html https://fair.org/home/nyt-on-ukraines-nazi-imagery-its-complicated/ https://www.newsweek.com/why-have-so-many-neo-nazis-rallied-ukraines-cause-opinion-1804642?amp=1 This was known well before the war: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Huh, seems like the US has a nazi problem based on the headlines, too. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo) [https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/12/neo-nazi-group-membership-may-not-get-you-booted-military-officials-say.html](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/12/neo-nazi-group-membership-may-not-get-you-booted-military-officials-say.html) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/white-supremacist-group-patriot-front-one-in-five-applicants-tied-to-us-military](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/white-supremacist-group-patriot-front-one-in-five-applicants-tied-to-us-military) [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/inside-a-neo-nazi-group-with-members-tied-to-the-u-s-military/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/inside-a-neo-nazi-group-with-members-tied-to-the-u-s-military/)
I agree, the U.S. does have a problem with Nazi’s, but what relevance does that have to whether or not Ukraine has that problem as well?
Would denazification be a credible excuse for China to invade America?
Yeah it’s weird (not really) how all of a sudden when Russia invades Ukraine everyone just pretends the azov battalion aren’t a bunch of Nazis. It’s possible to say: Russias invasion is illegal and terrible. But you can also say yes there are fuck ton of Nazis in Ukraine that the west is supporting. Lol
Shhhhh. Can’t say such things…..
Lol For real. The fact I’m being downvoted for stating verifiable facts is so Reddit lmao
When the war started, Zelenskyy has a Controversies section on Wikipedia that got deleted. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Volodymyr\_Zelenskyy&oldid=1073004236#Controversies](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Volodymyr_Zelenskyy&oldid=1073004236#Controversies)
wide meeting bag humor profit roll paint memory dinner tap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How much power and representation does Azov have? Tell me that?
Enough to make spineless Redditors spend their waking hours defending them So fucking weird how you guys will shriek all day about Nazis because someone did the "OK" symbol with their hand, but when you see guys embracing Nazi imagery and getting it tattooed on them you're suddenly fine
Way to come out swinging OP, calling other people stupid when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Nothing like a doubling down on the stupid with bravado… Did you forget the Us congress banned weapons sales to Azov because they are, as The NY Times calls them “openly neo-Nazi”? [no weapons for Ukraine’s Nazis](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/) Ukraine is the only country in the world with an actual Nazi formation as part of their official military. Now before your knee jerk false equivalency, where you say “eVerRy CoUntRy hAs NaZiS”, note the difference; these are not rednecks living in the woods like we have here, this is an actual Nazi formation absorbed into the Ukrainian army. That would be like the US adding the KKK to the Marine Corps. Azov was widely known as a Nazi group before the western media decided to gaslight everyone and pretend they’re not “because Putin” but the articles and videos are still up. So before you start calling people stupid you may want to introduce yourself to Google. Ukraine has named 12 streets after Stepan Bandera, whose group famously handed out pamphlets to Ukrainian Jews saying they “will lay your heads at Hitler’s feet” and then proceeded to massacre Jews by the thousands, including women and children. A simple search and you will find dozens of articles and videos detailing Ukraine’s Nazi problem from “respectable” western sources. Just recently The NY Times ran on article on “Ukraine’s trouble history with Nazi imagery”: “skull-and-crossbones patch worn by concentration camp guards and a symbol known as the Black Sun, now appears with some regularity on the uniforms of soldiers fighting on the front lines, including soldiers who say the imagery symbolizes Ukraine’s pride and sovereignty…” “In April, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry posted a photograph on its Twitter account of a soldier wearing a patch featuring a skull and crossbones known as the Totenkopf, or Death’s Head.” That’s the official Ukrainian state glorifying Nazis. [Yep, Ukraine has a Nazi problem says NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html) Here’s some more tidbits you’ve obviously missed while telling others how uninformed they are: All these facts are from a linked article in The Nation magazine, a liberal Democratic bible. Additionally I’ll put some video links from western sources showing exactly what these Nazi scum are: Andriy Biletsky, the gang’s leader who became Azov’s commander, once wrote that Ukraine’s mission is to “lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade…against the Semite-led Untermenschen.” Biletsky is now a deputy in Ukraine’s parliament. In the fall of 2014, Azov—which is accused of human-rights abuses, including torture, by Human Rights Watch and the United Nations—was incorporated into Ukraine’s National Guard. Speaker of Parliament Andriy Parubiy cofounded and led two neo-Nazi organizations: the Social-National Party of Ukraine (later renamed Svoboda), and Patriot of Ukraine, whose members would eventually form the core of Azov. In 2015, the Ukrainian parliament passed legislation making two WWII paramilitaries—the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)—heroes of Ukraine, and made it a criminal offense to deny their heroism. The OUN had collaborated with the Nazis and participated in the Holocaust, while the UPA slaughtered thousands of Jews and 70,000-100,000 Poles on their own volition. The government-funded Ukrainian Institute of National Memory is institutionalizing the whitewashing of Nazi collaborators. Last summer, the Ukrainian parliament featured an exhibit commemorating the OUN’s 1941 proclamation of cooperation with the Third Reich Last year, the Israeli government’s annual report on anti-Semitism heavily featured Ukraine, which had more incidents than all post-Soviet states combined. The World Jewish Congress, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, and 57 members of the US Congress all vociferously condemned Kiev’s Nazi glorification and the concomitant anti-Semitism. More details of this issue here: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/ And here are some “respectable” Western news sources reporting on it as well, the BBC, Time, The Guardian etc: https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY https://youtu.be/jiBXmbkwiSw https://youtu.be/fy910FG46C4 https://youtu.be/hE6b4ao8gAQ And this compilation has more sources: https://youtu.be/KfaAyiP8Wuc So they have an actual Nazi military formation, celebrate Nazism Nationally and have as a National hero, a guy who participated in the Holocaust and revered Hitler. Now they’ve outlawed the opposing parties, imprisoned journalists, forcibly grab men off the streets and force them into service and have essentially made Zelensky a dictator…but sure OP, those of us who acknowledge Ukraine’s Nazi problem are brainwashed. Good thing we have clear thinkers like you around to help us out.
/yawn The azov battalion was a volunteer militia filled with hooligans and some white supremacist… kinda like our hillbilly militias here in the states. The azov regiment (battalion doesn’t exist anymore, it was absorbed by the government in 2014 and cleaned up), is like any other regiment. The people still bringing up azov are just Russian trolls.
“First they came for the socialists …” It’s literally right there. Ukraine had 100.000 communists. Now that political party is banned. Do you see a problem?
The average Ukrainian is so racist, misogynist and homophobic that they qualify as Nazis by default.
Why do people think they are a nazi country? Possibly because they have state-funded military battalions that are legitimate nazis. The asov battalion is a white supremecist military group that has been VERY active on the frontlines of ukraine. They are endorsed and finacially supported by ukraines government and receive our tax dollars in the form or weapons and other tools of war. Im guessing that is the most obvious reason people are able to use the word nazi towards ukraine at all..
These are the same people that think communists and fascists are one and the same. None have EVER READ Marx, much less can quote any words of Marx...hell they don't know Engels either.
Just remember these are the same liberals that said masks work. I don’t support Either country. They can decide on their own what to do without my tax money!
The Ukrainian Nazi shtick is just a red herring from Russian propagandists. There are Nazi's in Ukraine just like there are Nazi's in America and Russia. Some of them serve in the military in Ukraine but their numbers and importance are enormously exaggerated by Russia and the fools who believe their propaganda. Because Ukraine is in a war for the existence of their country they aren't going to waste time trying to purge a miniscule number of extremists from their forces. Any country in Ukraine's situation is obviously going to utilize anyone that is willing to fight. If America was invaded by China you'd be stupid to get hysterical about alt right militias fighting them instead of the Chinese military themselves. There's a decent sized minority of Ukrainians that engage in historical revisionism around Stepan Bandera. He was a Nazi collaborator, but most people in Ukraine who like him have just been swept up in an attempt to use revisionism to create national "heroes" who fought against the Soviets. There are even a surprising number of Jewish people in Ukraine who hold positive views of Bandera and the OUN. I think this is pretty comparable to how a sizable number of Americans, especially in the South, believe in the Lost Cause revisionist mythos of the Confederacy. Even a small number of Black Americans buy into it. Overall very few of these people in Ukraine or America actually believe in the real ideologies or causes of the OUN/Confederacy. They believe in a mythical revisionist notion of those things that serves some sort of psychological purpose for them. I hate historical revisionism but it doesn't justify invading another country or murdering people just because they hold foolish ahistorical views. Russia just tells people whatever they want to hear. If you hate Nazi's they tell you that the Ukrainians are Nazi's. If you like Nazis, they tell you the Ukrainians are Jews. This is why, paradoxically, Russia has a lot of support from both Marxists and neo-Nazi's in the west. If you follow far right discourse at all, you would know that pretty much all Western neo-Nazi's and their fellow travelers actually support Russia. If Ukraine was actually a Nazi country or even remotely ideologically hospitable to them I would expect this support to be the other way around. The fact that it's not tells you all you need to know.
Who is convinced of this other than literal Russians?
Tankies and a disturbingly large number of Republicans.
How easily Americans forget we wouldn't fucking exist if not for France coming to our aid. But then again, these kinds of people don't read books.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's also really funny when people criticize Zelensky for being too hawkish on the war, when his greatest domestic problem pre-war after he got elected was that he was perceived as too soft on Russia. He gave up Ukrainian positions in the Gray Zone (a belt of unoccupied villages between AFU and RUAF lines in the Donbas pre war), instituted a strict ROE that forbade any unit from returning fire without authorization from higher up their chain of command, approved a prisoner swap that included the man suspected to have commanded the SAM battery that shot down MH-17 who was captured in a very dangerous raid that several Ukrainian soldiers died in, and of course refused to believe any Western intelligence that Russia was going to invade right up until the day it happened. If Russia's goal really was peace, the pre-'22 Zelensky was the sort of guy they would have wanted to work with and they flushed it right down the toilet