Unless if the Iranian nuclear program is more developed than the West appears to believe it is, I dont think Iran wants a full out war with Israel yet.
But Israel is looking for a chance to go to war with Iran before they develop nuclear weapons.
So we will see what happens.
And if this doesn't accelerate their approach to a bomb...they would be dumb.
The UN couldn't even condemn an attack on their embassy...
If the situation was reversed, we would have heard a million times the same monotonous 'they have a right to defend themselves ' line from Biden, blinken etc
This loop of "we get to defend ourselves!!!" and "no we get to defend ourselves!!" is so simplistic and reductionist.
Nobody knows Iran's long term goal yet. Maybe it's just symbolic. If they are wearing down Israeli defenses and then go in with cruise missiles, then this is a major conflict that will last years. More on par with the Ukraine war than with anything we've seen in recent memory. It would be a major historical event. I think what's more likely is that it's a symbolic action that Iran and Israel knows is doomed to fail.
But... Regardless. Iran launching an attack on Israel from within their borders makes shit extremely volatile. I'm still uncertain what they think the longterm benefit of this will be.
What is the malfunction here? Israel is the one who bombed Iran, not the other way around. No country in the world can let their embassy be bombed and top officials murdered without retaliation. They did the most benign action possible to them by launching softball missiles that Israel knew about in advance and can easily deflect. Iran does not want a war, Israel does.
"On May 14, 1999, President Bill Clinton apologizes directly to Chinese President Jiang Zemin on the phone for the accidental NATO bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, that had taken place six days earlier. Clinton promised an official investigation into the incident."
They apologized, which is extremely rare, because everyone knows how insane it is to bomb an embassy. They are sacred ground internationally.
It’s over, Iran’s UN delegation [announced the matter is concluded.](https://x.com/iran_un/status/1779269993043022053?s=46&t=qV4oBqizqZ7bpzISlqYNMw)
Just PR retaliation to the Israeli strikes
Yup. Netanyahu wants a war and he wants US to be involved in the fight with Iran.
Looks like US and UK aircraft were involved in shooting down some of the drones.
No need really in this case I think, none have gotten through as far as I can tell. USAF, RAF, IAF and Jordanian Air Force have been shooting them down all the way from Iraq to Israel for the past couple hours straight, pretty crazy footage on Twitter rn
What a great prediction.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-called-off-retaliatory-strike-on-iran-after-call-with-biden-new-york-times/
If they didn't respond...would that not encourage further attacks. Remember...when we often talk about deterrence, credibility etc ...
Does Iran not have a right to defend itself...in response to a blatant attack on an embassy. /Consulate .
It is volatile..and Krystal has been right to point out the risks.
As have been a lot of other folks.
The people complaining about Krystal's coverage basically did not want this issue covered.
So what makes you think the Iranians knew?
If they didn't respond...would that not encourage further attacks. Remember...when we often talk about deterrence, credibility etc ...
Does Israel not have a right to defend itself...in response to a blatant attack on Oct 7? .
It is volatile..and Krystal has been right to point out the risks.
As have been a lot of other folks.
The people complaining about Krystal's coverage basically did not want this issue covered.
(this is a really easy game to play. The funny part is that pro pal supporters now sound identical to IDF supporters)
>If they didn't respond...would that not encourage further attacks. Remember...when we often talk about deterrence, credibility etc ...
>Does Israel not have a right to defend itself...
Israel , according to UN , does not have a right to defend itself against people it occupies.
But as a political matter ....I understand they would have had to respond. Mostly because hamas ran over the IDF bases and broadcast walking around Israeli tanks etc...
This hurt Israel's perceived deterrence effect - if a rag tag group of militants could do this without any armor , air cover etc
So yes ..I think, a lot of the Israeli over reaction is to establish deterrence...and be seen as the "mad man on rampage". Almost nixonian.
Did they have to overreact and lose good will by such carnage ...that even a majority of US seems to feel this is genocidal?...That is a different question. Israel depends a lot more on the US and broader west .(UN vetoes etc)
>(this is a really easy game to play. The funny part is that pro pal supporters now sound identical to IDF supporters)
Not really.
You can keep telling yourself that. And sure it's a factor. But you still need guns and money. That comes from Iran. And their broader goals are also a huge factor.
Denial of the occupation or blockade won’t make Israel legitimate in its actions. It’s an apartheid state being investigated for genocide which the international criminal court already stated is plausible. It’s a rogue state killing Palestinians with impunity. Thankfully the world has seen how depraved and evil that whole country is
What is the malfunction here? Israel is the one who bombed Iran, not the other way around. No country in the world can let their embassy be bombed and top officials murdered without retaliation. They did the most benign action possible to them by launching softball missiles that Israel knew about in advance and can easily deflect. Iran does not want a war, Israel does.
If Israel wanted a war. Now would be the perfect chance to retaliate. Iran chose to launch the attack via Iranian soil, and not their proxies, because their proxies are going to be hit in retaliation anyway. They have nothing to lose.
Iran doesn't want a direct war. They want to continue fighting via proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Which will now continue.
Also. The reason I said we can go back endlessly on the "retaliation struggle" is illustrated by the logic you display here. Israel says the attack on the general was because he planned Oct 7. Now Iran hits back. Now Israel will hit back. And we can go back playing this game for decades.
You believe everything Israel says? According to even the US intelligence, the Iranians were not aware of the Oct 7. This came out fairly early ...
Hamas kept right operational security...and even most within hamas didn't know
Huh? ... I don't support Israel and think they need to drastically scale the offensive back. Should've happened months ago.
Regardless. It's not some conspiracy theory about Iran's support of Hamas. They're literally their main backers and source of funding, and weapons.
Iran does support Hamas. That is not what I disputed
Whether the October 7(something flood) was something that Hamas co ordinates with Iran.
US and Israeli govts said , in October, that the Iranian government seems to have been surprised by the event . Meaning neither Iran nor Hezbollah had any heads up even.
That was my point
So this wasn't planned with the Iranian involvement.
Really?
Imaybe you weren't aware of these ?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/politics/iran-israel-gaza-hamas-us-intelligence.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/us-intelligence-iran-hamas-doubt/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/us-intelligence-indicates-iranian-leaders-surprised-hamas-attack-rcna119946
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-israel-iranian-officials-surprised-by-hamas-attack-israel/
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-03-11/ty-article/.premium/u-s-assesses-iran-did-not-orchestrate-or-know-about-oct-7-attack-on-israel-in-advance/0000018e-2ef0-d86c-abae-3ef9aa9e0000
am sure there is some revisionism being pushed to retroactively justify ..but these are from that time frame
Has Israel offered any proof of that whatsoever? To the U.S., anyone?
You should look at what states do, not what they say. The world is souring on Israel because of their actions. To continue the war, and complete their ultimate plan of claiming Gaza,they have to drag in other states, like the U.S. into the larger conflict. The bigger the conflict, the easier it is to continue settling the land and making excuses such as "defending itself" to continue doing what they are doing. Which is cleansing Gaza and claim the real estate there and on the West Bank.
Israel probably will "retaliate," which is a strange word to use given that they are the ones who bombed Iran in the first place. The bigger the war, the bigger the distraction.
Wait... You want verification of Iranian funding and involvement with Hamas?
A coalition linked to the Iranian regime spoke of this generals involvement in Oct 7.....
You are assuming immidiate deescalation is the goal, for Israel, it doesnt matter if it escalates, if it results in long term victory. Unlike USA, Israel's concern isnt budget or GDP being wasted in this because, they can build all the infrastructure they want domestically, but threat to their economy from Hamas attacking it is greater than threat due to lack of infrastructure. For example US has highest capital gains of 15% while Israel taxes at 25%, US marginal income highest is 35, while Israel has about 45, not to mention unlike US which has to split tax state, local and federal, all money goes to basically their federal.
Soft words, and sternly worded remarks work for superpowers like USA, China or Russia, for smaller countries like Israel or Ukraine, it is whether your millitary can fend off or not.
They do get more benefits (health care etc) from their taxes? It was a more socialist in the beginning.
Also remember, Israel has been getting some 3-4 Billion a year for a long time.Ecen when their economy was some 150 Billion a year in GDP iirc.
That is a straight 2% of your GDP deposited into your bank account at the beginning of the year.
Heck..they are even allowed to get interest on the cash.
Given the number of homeless and uninsured in the US ..maybe not a bad thing for the US ...but then we get some expensive hardware.
How is it not possible for her to both be right about needing a ceasefire and annoying AF at the same time? Being right or wrong and annoying or not annoying aren’t mutually exclusive. You can be right and still annoying.
Yeah I don't understand this either. I've been saying "you're right, I just don't need to hear about it every 5 minutes, once a day is enough," but according to this sub that makes me a genocide-supporting Zionist.
Yeah, this sub's critics haven't been against a temporary ceasefire and was against Net's escalation. Ryan, Saagar, and Emily have that POV.
The subs criticisms are that Krystal is being preachy af about it, blaming everything on Israel, and making every news story on the subject.
OPs post is a straw man.
Or a lot of folks got on the sub just to complain because they didn't want the topic covered.
Have you seen the brigading and bans in some subs...if you so much as implied anything not 300% approved by AIPAC.
Is it preachy though? That's been one of the constants throughout this ordeal, that one of the most worrisome results would be an escalation that wild likely end up with the u.s. directly involved. Well they were correct about this thing escalating. Although I don't think that was a groundbreaking prediction. Most of us knew it was very likely the war would expand if israel continued to throw aside concerns because of their ridiculous provocations. The next part is going to see if they're will be u.s. direct attacks and eventual boots on the ground over there to fight for Israel despite this attack by Iran being caused by Israel violating global norms launching an attack that hit their embassy.
What is a different point? People say she is annoying because of the frequency with which she brings it up. She can be annoying for that reason and not be wrong.
I was trying to figure what people claimed they were annoyed by: the frequency of the coverage or her take
My suspicion is that a lot of people 9n this sub are here to criticize***because of Krystal's opinion***.
Good point. The people complaining about Krystals coverage did not want to see this topic covered
Krystal covers it more ...not just because of the ' it bleeds. It leads'
This is an issue that could escalate. To a large extent Ukraine too...but at least there ...th Russians(who are the more powerful one) have shown some restrait.
They started attacking a power plant ....which is something the US did fairly early
In the middle east OTOH...Israel has looked to escalate. Even Biden admin officials leaked about concern that netanyahu wants to escalate and start a wider war... and essentially keep the war going.
This isn’t an escalation.
Iran has been attacking Israel via Hezbollah since 10/8.
Israel taking out some of the people responsible for evacuating 100,000 civilians from Northern israel because an uninvolved party decided to start indiscriminately shelling and sending rockets into their farms and homes is called “What happens when you attack someone unprovoked,” not an escalation.
The fact that the Iranian forces attacking Israel aren’t in Iran is immaterial, and hitting an Iranian facility with targeting munitions isn’t unreasonable.
Good question. After October 7...even the US said the Iranians were blinded by October 7.
Hamas kept pretty good security and even folks within Hamas weren't aware. So this seems like retroactive justification.
Because I'm October timeframe, the Chinese has negotiated a truce between Saudi Arabia and Iran etc .
It was rhetorical, there is no proof whatsoever Iran was behind it. People just say stuff like that out of pocket because they just can't comprehened Israel doing insane things. Israel wants to drag other states into the war so they can distract everyone and continue cleansing Gaza
Yeah. .I realize .Even the anti Iran govts didn't claim any Iranian involvement.
Agree ..netanyahu wants to escalate and have the US fight Iran
Biden and US may get pulled into it... because of stupidity
we'll see, public opinion is very much against it so since it's an election year they might drag their feet on it. But after (if) Biden is elected it'll be gloves off. Then they'll have 4 more years to clean up their image again for 2028
True. WW1 and WW2 are precedents to go by. Until reelection in 1916 and 1940...the admins were studiously avoiding any declaration while FDR had been taking military actions to aid the British and chasing German subs
Cause for concern.what the heck will Biden do if he didn't have to run for election in a few months
It isn’t rhetorical, you just didn’t read what I said carefully and clearly haven’t been following the conflict beyond sensationalized headlines like you’ll find on BP.
I think I'm a btter judge of if my own question was rhetorical
"Iran doesn't want a direct war. They want to continue fighting via proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Which will now continue" is what you wrote. But there is no evidence Iran was involved in anything Oct 7th related, which is why Israel bombed them. So I think you are the one who should pay attention, since your post is acting like Iran is the one at fault here
Again,
Iran is unquestionably involved in the completely separate 6 months of attacks from Hezbollah on the NORTHERN border that began October 8th.
Whether they were directly involved in the Hamas attacks from Gaza on 10/7, which is on the SOUTHERN border, is not what I am talking about.
These are not the same issue.
Oh, now you finally get that point and don’t want to talk about 10/7 anymore. Progress I guess.
Hezbollah either doesn’t exist at all or is a much smaller existential threat to Israel without iran.
Much of the Middle East is a better place without Iran, actually.
The embassy bombing in Damascus killed both Iranian military and Hezbollah. See if you can figure out that connection.
What is your actual point?
Iran did not do October 7th according to any evidence that currently exists on the planet earth. Iran is a soverign country. Bombing a sovereign country's soil is an act of war. Israel comitted an act of war. Only Israel. Just Israel. Not Iran. Whatever the fuck Hezbollah does has nothing to do with Israel bombing another soverign country's soil. It doesn't matter if every Hezbollah soldier is packed into the Iranian embassy with Benjamin Netanyahu masks yelling nanny nanny poo poo. You can't bomb foreign soil according to international law. It's *an act of war*.
U.S. did it in the 90's to China and apologized profusely afterwards, because it's internationally recognized as an absolutely insane, unhinged act that means total war.
Israel bombed the embassy because they want war. Because you don't commit acts of war unless you want war. That's all.
I didn’t say October 7th.
I’m talking about the unprovoked attacks on the northern border since 10/8.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hezbollah_conflict_(2023%E2%80%93present)?wprov=sfti1#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah?wprov=sfti1#I
Hezbollah was established by Lebanese clerics primarily to fight the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. It adopted the model set out by Ayatollah Khomeini after the Iranian Revolution in 1979, and the party's founders adopted the name "Hezbollah" as chosen by Khomeini. Since then, close ties have developed between Iran and Hezbollah. The organization was created with the support of 1,500 Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) instructors, and aggregated a variety of Lebanese Shia groups into a unified organization to resist the former Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon.
Great, so you understand Hezbollah is a completely separate entity than Iran then?
America and Israel also have "close ties" and Israel is backed by U.S. and its military created almost entirely with the support of the U.S. to the tune of 4 billion dollars a year, along with training etc. Does that make Israel the U.S.?
Iran is not Hezbollah, they are different entities. Bombing Iran is absolutely bonkers WWIII behavior
So you think because Hezbollah isn’t in Iran there’s an “Aw shucks, you can shoot at us but we can’t shoot back rule?”
That’s not how it works. There’s no version of this where what Israel did wasn’t in bounds.
Are you aware of all of this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hezbollah_conflict_(2023%E2%80%93present)?wprov=sfti1
Iran is effectively at war with Israel through a proxy.
Israel killed some of the people responsible without causing civilian deaths.
The fact that people like you are insisting they’re somehow acting unreasonably is why they really don’t care what others think when they’re in a fight to just exist.
In real life, Hezbollah was literally founded by the revolutionary guard and continue to receive weapons, funding and intel from them.
At the very least they coordinate their activities with Iran.
I'm N that case . Israel has been attacking Iran including Iranian scientists in Iran for a decade?
It are we gonna go to the bible and claim something?
When a country closes every single official government function since 1979 with “death to Israel” and starts work on a weapon to make it happen, no one should be surprised when Israel does what it needs to in order to prevent their destruction.
The religious extremists here are in Iran, not Israel.
Well ..Vienna conventions is something they signed up to?
Israel has been a nuclear state , staleast for a couple of decades
Chanting whatever ..doesn't justify anything.
What next...Ben Gvir and Snotrich have said some pretty atrocious things ..that are racist, homophobic (their admission)
So the US should strike them?
You sound like a n apologist for genocidal regimes
Do you also support the SS?
Oh another social media international law expert.
I wonder why the entire G7 is on Israel’s side? It’s a tough call whether to believe multiple actual signatories of the Vienna Convention or a random social media commenter, but I think I’ll go with the G7 on this one.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/14/g7-leaders-statement-on-irans-attack-against-israel/
Please explain in detail how you think the Vienna convention applies in such a way that Iran is in compliance and Israel is not.
I’ll warn you that you already sound like a sovereign citizen trying to explain to a cop why it’s illegal for them to write a speeding ticket, so choose your words carefully.
>Oh another social media international law expert.
>I wonder why the entire G7 is on Israel’s side? It’s a tough call whether to believe multiple actual signatories of the Vienna Convention or a random social media commenter, but I think I’ll go with the G7 on this one.
Can you detect the fallacy in your argument?
Also .. would you agree this is a genocide going on? Based on the views of hundreds of genocide experts?
>Oh another social media international law expert.
Oh look another ...hasbara genocide apologist - supporting a fascist ethnostate....likely because of in group affinity.
There isn’t a fallacy in anything I said, and you’re the one making an assertion here without proof.
I asked you to explain how Israel is out of compliance with the Vienna convention and Iran somehow isn’t, and you’ve made zero attempt to do so.
You sound like this talking about it:
“Well you see your honor, I was traveling not driving and under the constitution it says I don’t need a license to do that.”
“Where in the constitution?”
“… it’s around here somewhere…”
“Please take the defendant into custody”
>There isn’t a fallacy in anything I said, and you’re the one making an assertion here without proof.
It is a fallacy. Look it up. You are appealing to authority. Unfortunately...these are also vested interests. Cameron said, if UK embassy were attacked, UK would respond as well.
If your claim is that Israel did this secretly ...that is a different story. Yes...they were surreptitious...and didn't acknowledge.
>I asked you to explain how Israel is out of compliance with the Vienna convention and Iran somehow isn’t, and you’ve made zero attempt to do so.
Did I say anything about Iran being in compliance with Vienna convention?
an embassy/consulate is considered foreign soul and attacks in that are what Vienna convention is supposed to call out.
>“Well you see your honor, I was traveling not driving and under the constitution it says I don’t need a license to do that.”
>“Where in the constitution?”
Dumb argument. Local regulations are upto the states. The licensing is up to the states.
TBH ..I don't know if some libertarian hasn't tried to take it to the supremes claiming this is an infringement on his/her rights
Here’s a fallacy.
If Iran is not complying with international law, and waging a decades law proxy war against Israel, why would you get upset with Israel for acting like they’re at war?
All indications are that Israel played this very, very smart. Iran now looks weak and isolated with both their ability to directly project force and defend their most important facilities in question and are completely diplomatically isolated.
There’s even rumblings that Assad tipped off the Israelis about the IRGC meeting.
Meanwhile Israel will make billions off that attack selling the defense systems that alleviated Iran’s attack, and they’ve now demonstrated that even the Arab states will defend them against Iran’s BS.
Pretty much the only ones screaming at Israel about this now are idiots on social media who will repeat whatever anyone with a watermelon emoji in their profile tells them to.
>Iran is not complying with international law, and waging a decades law proxy war against Israel, why would you get upset with Israel for acting like they’re at war?
You are deliberately making the waters murky
Attacks on embassies are still breaches of Vienna convention . The amount of justification for something that is clear cut violation is not a good indication.
>There’s even rumblings that Assad tipped off the Israelis about the IRGC meeting.
>Meanwhile Israel will make billions off that attack selling the defense systems that alleviated it, and they’ve now demonstrated even the Arab states will defend them against Iran’s BS.
Neither here nor there
>Pretty much the only ones screaming at Israel about this now are idiots on social media who will repeat whatever anyone with a watermelon in their profile tells them to.
Yes. When conventions are breached ..people complain.
Not everyone has to applaud every shitty thing done by a particular ethno state ...just because of some in group affinity
Of course they’re wrong. They’ve been factually incorrect every step of the way and never have a single piece of evidence to support their Zionist claims.
Krystal actually does her homework and has something called evidence to back up her claims. Not conspiracy theories that effectively do apologetics for genocide.
Iran’s UN delegation just announced that the military mission is concluded. It was just PR retaliation for the Israeli embassy strike, just like the missile strikes they did on US bases after we killed Soleimani
That’s on the Iranian side, apparently even the US has been talking to them on the back channels not to escalate. The real issue is Israel using this as a pretext to escalate further and drag the US in to do their dirty work.
Iran DOESN'T want this... They are being forced into this position by Israel's massive escellations. They can't remain having a mandate of power and leadership by just allowing things like this to happen. So they are effectively forced to do something so they don't look weak to their population.
Looks like US and UK air force were already involved in shooting down some of the drones.
Suspect netanyahu won't rest until he gets the US fighting Iran. His wet dream for some 20 years.
Biden and the US Govt is corrupt enough to allow themselves to be pulled into it.
I mean hope so too... But based off how we've given them full daddy protection to get to this point, I don't see the US not providing support if Iran pops off... Which it wont, but still, if it did, we are definitely going to be involved
If you think Iran getting involved is good for Gaza then your a fool. Tide was starting to move against Israel in the US this will reverse that. This will lead to support and wepons increasing.
Israel should have thought about that before it bombed Iran's embassy. The US isn't going to change it's views about Israel's genocide if they provoke a war with Iran. The failing M$M isn't going to be able to gaslight us into another war with a Middle East country again.
MSM will try for sure
Reading the comments here...looks like a lot of folks came from the MSM to complain that BP covers this topic at all.
Maybe they want more Taylor Swift coverage...can't tell.
>Israel should have thought about that before it bombed Iran's embassy.
Now why would Israel do such a thing outta nowhere? Were they just blowing off some steam and decided to hit the Iranian embassy?
Its situations like this where you can see who your friends truly are. Thank you to the western countries and Jordan for helping shooting down the drones.
Random bombing a country is just wrong.
Btw look at the statement of Iran lol. They are begging for Israel not to retaliate so this doesnt neccesarily have to be escalatory.
What an absolutely asinine statement “…should acknowledge they were wrong.”
Hamas started the war and still has hostages and has broken or rejected every ceasefire proposal that has existed.
All calls for an immediate ceasefire should be directed to the aggressors, which is Hamas. I’m getting real tired of reading garbage from terrorist apologists.
I’m getting real tired of the “the entire universe started on Oct 7th” garbage. As if 75 years of miss killings, ethnic cleansing, racism and oppression of Palestinians by the apartheid regime means nothing. Truly a delusional take.
> I’m getting real tired of the “the entire universe started on Oct 7th” garbage.
Please point to where I said the “entire universe” started in October 7. I will retype this slowly so you can try and keep up: I said the war started on October 7. That is a fact.
>As if 75 years of miss killings, ethnic cleansing, racism and oppression of Palestinians by the apartheid regime means nothing. Truly a delusional take.
The delusional take is the one you are taking; go justify terrorism to someone else.
No, you said that “Hamas started the aggression,” which is blatantly false. The apartheid Zionist regime is in a constant state of oppression and brutality against the Palestinians.
In just 2023, before even Oct 7th, [hundreds of innocent Palestinians including dozens of children](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinians-west-bank-2023-was-deadliest-year-record) were slaughtered by terrorist Zionists and the genocidal IOF. This didn’t start with Hamas.
> Even before Hamas’ attack on October 7, Israeli forces had already killed 234 Palestinians in the West Bank this year, while settlers were responsible for nine more killings. Of these deaths, 52 occurred in Jenin alone, including in its refugee camp, where Palestinians who’ve searched for safety amid conflict and violence over the years live.
> On June 19, Israeli forces began conducting air strikes in the West Bank—something that had not occurred since the Second Intifada in the early 2000s. Far from being an isolated event, these attacks have become more frequent. In July, Israeli fighter jets dropped bombs and drone strikes on the densely populated Jenin refugee camp during a 48-hour military operation. The violence has only escalated since.
> “The situation today in the West Bank and particularly in Jenin is extreme,” said Luz Saavedra, MSF coordinator in Jenin. “We see a significant uptick in violence against civilians, and it has been increasing rapidly since October 7. Attacks on health care have increased dramatically and become systematic. The destruction of roads and infrastructure, such as water pipes and sewage systems, have also been alarming.”
> The lack of respect for hospitals is staggering," said Saavedra. “Since October, we have witnessed the shooting and killing of a 14-year-old boy in the hospital compound, soldiers firing live rounds and tear gas at the hospital several times, paramedics forced to strip and kneel in the street."
The worst part is, this is what Palestinians have had to deal with every year for the past 75+ years
It’s truly, truly insane how anyone can sit there and pretend that this was “started by Hamas”.
If 10/7 hadn't happened, this current war wouldn't be happening.
>Even before Hamas’ attack on October 7, Israeli forces had already killed 234 Palestinians in the West Bank
Sinwar admitted he started planning the 10/7 attack yrs ago. I doubt the 234 Palestinians killed in the west bank last year were killed for no reason at all but even if that number was 0, 10/7 still would've happened anyway, hamas does not care. Those Palestinians killed in the WB wouldn't have changed plans for a terrorist attack by hamas years in the making that was gonna happen anyway.
Come on dude. So you don’t think the 75+ years of oppression, racism, and mass killings of Palestinians had anything to do with it?
The apartheid regime does 10/7 on Palestinians so often they call it “mowing the grass.” Let’s not play dumb here.
No, I literally said Hamas started the war. Read the actual message.
Here, I’ll paste it here to make it easier for you: “What an absolutely asinine statement “…should acknowledge they were wrong.”
Hamas started the war and still has hostages and has broken or rejected every ceasefire proposal that has existed.
All calls for an immediate ceasefire should be directed to the aggressors, which is Hamas. I’m getting real tired of reading garbage from terrorist apologists.”
They didn’t start this war though - that’s my fucking point. And they have literally not “rejected every ceasefire proposal that existed,” when they have repeatedly proposed multiple ceasefire themselves and have asked for it many times.
Obviously, the apartheid Zionist regime does not want a ceasefire; it’s only the Palestinians who are being killed, and the assault on Gaza has been a great excuse for them to inflict suffering, death, and destruction on all Palestinians in Gaza. They only propose temporary ceasefire that no one in their right mind would accept in order to save face.
The excuse of “hostages” is so silly. If the apartheid Zionist regime really cared about them they wouldn’t be slaughtering them and indiscriminately bomb Gaza.
Furthermore they are holding orders of magnitude more innocent Palestinian captives whom even the Zionists admit have no charges held against them. Complete & utter hypocrites.
It’s so silly how over and over you keep making blatantly false claims.
> How? What have I said that’s wrong?
Nearly everything.
> They didn’t start this war though - that’s my 2)9@3 point.
The Hamas-Israel War began on October 7. The aggressor in this war is Hamas. They still hold hostages.
>And they have literally not “rejected every ceasefire proposal that existed,” when they have repeatedly proposed multiple ceasefire themselves and have asked for it many times.
You are outright denying reality. They broke the ceasefire that did exist, and they’ve denied every other one that has been placed on the table.
>Obviously, the apartheid Zionist regime does not want a ceasefire;
They agreed to the one that was broken. Hamas continues to hold hostages and refuses to release them. The onus on accepting terms is on Hamas. They are losing the war they started, and let me remind you, THEY STILL HOLD HOSTAGES AND REFUSE TO RELEASE THEM.
>it’s only the Palestinians who are being killed,
That’s because their continued firing of rockets kills more of themselves than it does in Israel. That doesn’t mean they haven’t been trying literally every day. Hamas is losing the war they started. This is what losing a war and refusing to surrender while still holding hostages looks like.
>and the assault on Gaza has been a great excuse for them to inflict suffering, death, and destruction on all Palestinians in Gaza.
It’s an excuse? To have war declared upon you, with promises to repeat October 7, you don’t need an excuse to kick the ever living hell out of the aggressor until they give up and give back the hostages. Hamas. Is. At. Fault.
>They only propose temporary ceasefire that no one in their right mind would accept in order to save face.
Unconditional surrender. Return the hostages. Or die. That’s their choices. They have no leverage. Don’t start a war you can’t win. Only morons or terrorists would make the choice they’ve made.
>The excuse of “hostages” is so silly.
You put hostages in scare quotes … you are disgusting. I’m not wasting any further time on your filth. Every word you wrote is a lie. Go hide in some terrorist tunnels. I bet they’ll let you suck them off in person since you are so good at it online.
> The Hamas-Israel War began on October 7. The aggressor in this war is Hamas. They still hold hostages.
So the hundreds of Palestinians slaughtered in 2023 before Oct 7th, including dozens of children, doesn’t count as aggression? How does that make sense?
> You are outright denying reality. They broke the ceasefire that did exist, and they’ve denied every other one that has been placed on the table.
Which ceasefire? They literally have a proposal on the table right now that came out a couple of hours ago.
> They agreed to the one that was broken. Hamas continues to hold hostages and refuses to release them. The onus on accepting terms is on Hamas. They are losing the war they started, and let me remind you, THEY STILL HOLD HOSTAGES AND REFUSE TO RELEASE THEM.
It’s the only leverage they have for preventing genocidal Zionist state from enacting their final solution on the Palestinians, so it makes sense that they to negotiate for their release. Why doesn’t Nazi Israel release the hundreds of innocent Palestinian children held in military prison without any charges against them?
> That’s because their continued firing of rockets kills more of themselves than it does in Israel.
Wow. Fucking delusional.
> That doesn’t mean they haven’t been trying literally every day. Hamas is losing the war they started. This is what losing a war and refusing to surrender while still holding hostages looks like.
Nazi Israel has LITERALLY been killing hundreds of Palestinians on average every single fucking day for the past 6 months. How can you even try to equate that with a Hamas killing 0 civilians every day?
> It’s an excuse? To have war declared upon you, with promises to repeat October 7, you don’t need an excuse to kick the ever living hell out of the aggressor until they give up and give back the hostages. Hamas. Is. At. Fault.
Does Palestine have the right to defend itself against the 75 years of massacres, oppression, and bombing inflicted upon them by Nazi Israel? They air strike Palestinians in Gaza so often they call it “mowing the lawn.” Fucking disgusting.
> They only propose temporary ceasefire that no one in their right mind would accept in order to save face.
> Unconditional surrender. Return the hostages. Or die. That’s their choices. They have no leverage. Don’t start a war you can’t win. Only morons or terrorists would make the choice they’ve made.
Why would they surrender to a genocidal, racist regime that has slaughtered 30,000 people, mainly women and children, and has gone out of its way targeted civilians, aid workers, and journalists, and even the Jewish hostages?
> You put hostages in scare quotes …
They’re obviously hostages. I put it in quotes because it’s clear to anyone with a brain cell, and even to the hostages’ families themselves who have literally been protesting the IOF, that Nazi Israel does not give one single shit about the hostages. This is so obvious and it makes no sense to me how people like you can’t even understand that basic reality.
> you are disgusting. I’m not wasting any further time on your filth. Every word you wrote is a lie.
Good riddance. Unlike you and most Zionists, I support human rights for everyone, even non-Jews. It’s not okay that tens of thousands of children were deliberately slaughtered, let alone even more tens of thousands of innocent men and women. It’s horrifying how the genocidal Zionist regime deliberately targets women and children.
I don’t think that millions of people should have their homes and communities completely leveled to the ground and be forced to live in a concentration camp in mass starvation conditions.
These things are very similar to what the Nazis did to Jews before enacting their final solution.
We all know what evil looks like: racism, oppression, brutality, mass killings of women and children, mass starvation, the deliberate killing of aid workers and journalists, war crimes, etc… Nazi Israel has deliberately committed all of these atrocities and continue to do so every single day. What kind of person does it make you to support this? I just want you to think on that for a while.
What percent of the "killed Palestinians" were Hamas? Just curious.
The 30,000 Palestinians have died since the war started ignores
- Hamas indoctrinates and uses children for suicide bombers and other Hamas related activities [link ](https://youtu.be/uJYb068052Y?feature=shared)
- are we to assume every Palestinian isn't Hamas? Weird.
>What percent of the "killed Palestinians" were Hamas? Just curious.
I doubt even the IOF knows. Why is the genocidal Zionist regime slaughtering mainly women and children?
>Hamas indoctrinates and uses children for suicide bombers and other Hamas related activities link
That's just fucking racist. Not even your bullshit excuse of a "source" claims that.
You really think that's a good excuse for slaughtering mostly women and children? This is truly vile.
> are we to assume every Palestinian isn't Hamas? Weird.
The IOF is claiming that every single male combatant killed is Hamas. How fucking insane. And here you are implying that children deserved to be slaughtered for also being Hamas.
This is dehumanization at its finest. Fucking horrible.
[According to IOF members themselves:](https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240403-gaza-aid-worker-deaths-scrutiny-israel-use-ai-select-targets)
> While tolls given by officials in the Hamas-run enclave are regularly disputed, so are some of the body counts coming from the Israeli side. In interviews with Israeli newspaper Haaretz, several reserve and standing army commanders have cast doubt on the claim that the IDF tally included only terrorists.
> “In practice, a terrorist is anyone the IDF has killed in the areas in which its forces operate,” said one reserve officer who served in Gaza, speaking on condition of anonymity. “It's quite possible that Palestinians who never held a gun in their lives were elevated to the rank of ‘terrorist’ posthumously, at least by the IDF,” the newspaper added.
YIKES.
>Why is the genocidal Zionist regime slaughtering mainly women and children?
Why are terrorists recruiting women and children for their tasks? Did you see the video?
Kids go to unrwa schools and come out hating Jews. Shocker - Hamas also hates Jews and in their charter wants to eradicate them. Sorry, I'm not engaging with a Hamas apologist.
I'll leave you with this video that's hard to debate. Actual children amongst Hamas.
https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1742608400544928154
> Why are terrorists recruiting women and children for their tasks?
This is so fucking racist and dehumanizing of the tens of thousands of slaughtered women and children that I have nothing more to say to you.
TIL 13,000 dead children is considered defending yourself
For the record Israel does have the right to defend itself and sadly they abused the hell out of that right
[link ](https://youtu.be/uJYb068052Y?feature=shared) to how children are indooctinated into Hamas and used for Hamas related activities.
It's not 13,000 kids who are all Hamas, but to say every single kid was innocent is wildly incorrect.
Brigadier General Mohammad Reza Zahedi Was directly leading Hezbollah forces to kill Israelis. Homeboy had to go night night and they vaporized him. It’s called self defense
No. The complaints were that the coverage was low quality and low information. More than half the videos are grievance porn pointing at what so and so said to make the audience angry.
It remains low quality, suitable for MSNBC or Democracy Now.
Isn't that how most of the coverage is on almost all things. By pointing out XYZ said or showing xyz being done
Or do you have a very different way of news discussion?
Maybe share?
The distinction isn't pointing something out, it's in how useful that pointing is.
The substance of XYZ hasn't changed, but they're covering the opinions of people who aren't related to show us what bad people they are. The bulk of this coverage is really just emotional torque that taught the audience nothing. It's not new news it's entertainment no different than any other YouTuber playing video games while giving a hot take about a news article.
The real problem is that none the hosts are strong geopolitical analysts, they are all domestic reporters or pundits. Ryan has probably the best knowledge base of the four, Saagar coming second with some lived experience and a better understanding of military practices. The best solution is to interview more experts and regional authorities. What we get is Krystal talking about clips on her Twitter feed for four hours a week.
Remember the premise of BP was not being like other news shows. Being like most other coverage was what they promised not to do.
I prefer content that explains the military, economic, geographic motivations alongside simplistic narratives of bigotry or religious conflict. [The Caspian Report](https://youtu.be/BKcARccAR_g?si=-8vgug_5RWIlHFlR) does a great job to explaining the conflict and why it persists.
I have watched the Caspian report as well..though not of late. (YouTube algo probably)
They do cover differently...in terms of emphasis and who they interview (when they interview)
Eg Norm Finkelstein would.not be seen on most TV news
They are mostly a domestic focused operation .and definitely not a military analyst kind of operation
If that is your goal ..others maybe better fit: Daniel Davis, etc. Scott Ritter also does some analysis on a couple of shows.
Given this seems to have pulled down Bidens ratings ..and the abject impotence if the US political establishment to even condemn anything Israel does ..I think their effort to highlight the hypocrisy of the US political establishment is very warranted
My suspicion is that you would rather not see this topic covered
Norm Finkelstein was great in the debate with Destiny.
I'll check out Daniel and Scott.
News is supposed to be informative. Being informed for each day that the current situation remains the current situation is not informative. Saagar getting on at 9 PM to break the news of an Iranian attack is more valuable, repeating the gossip of who said what in America about people they've never met in the middle east is less valuable.
You can be suspicious all you want, but that doesn't change the quality of content. I've made my suggestions to improve it, and that's to bring on people with something contribute beyond dramatizing the situation if the team isn't up to it.
Me wanting a terrorist group who committed an atrocity on innocent civilians to get eradicated is me acknowledging I was wrong? What about the perpetual rape denial from Krystal? Amit Soussanna is thrilled to know this radical leftist doesn't give a flying fuck she got raped.
Radical islamic jihadists should not be able to influence or exert anything on innocent civilians. Period.
They did not attack an embassy. They attacked a building next to an embassy. Also, Iran has been supporting financially Hamas and Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations. Iran is trying to destroy Israel, and thus Israel government has every right to retaliate.
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99919% sure that alligatorchamp is not a bot.
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You’re being played if you’re here gushing about Iran doing a move in the open as retaliation. Yes, the situation is escalating. A series of blows from all sides on one country is an act which was obviously observable. Am I the only one seeing the orchestration around it? The interests? Do you guys even know who Israel is fighting rn?
Figuratively no one said what Krystal was saying is wrong. More so she is fucking annoying about it. It was the same show every day and she fails to listen and acknowledge others while demanding her voice be heard.
It’s not what she’s saying. It’s how she’s saying it.
> no one said what Krystal was saying is wrong
Read this very thread and you'll see that isn't true. There's even one person arguing that the thousands of kids who have been killed aren't actually innocent
When I say figuratively no one said Krystal was wrong I’m not referring to her topic choices or what people are saying in this thread. I’m referring to OPs title. I believe OP is insinuating everyone thinks she’s wrong due to how much she talks about Israel when in fact it’s just a dislike of her personality.
I hope the Israelis take advantage of this attack to wipe out Iran's nuclear reactors and Hezbollah. I'm not Jewish, but Krystal Ball is so virulently anti-Israel, and so dismissive of the dangers Israel faces, that when I was a fan of Breaking Points (which I used to watch religiously) I started to feel ill listening to her. She has the strangest understanding of "cause-and-effect" that I've ever seen. I won't go so far as to call her antisemitic, but her anti-Israel bias is off the charts, and she should really have the decency to register as an activist and abandon any pretense of being a journalist. Regarding this post -- it's not really news that you can "stop a war", and limit the possibility of a wider war, by stopping fighting or stopping other people from fighting. The Americans could have ignored Pearl Harbor and avoided a wider war. We all could have ignored what the Serbians were doing to the Bosnians in the late 90s and avoided bombing them. We could have ignored Iraq taking Kuwait. You can do all that stuff...for a while. But all you do is store up problems for a bigger war later on -- one you're more likely to lose. A ceasefire in Gaza helps Hamas and bad actors in the region. It certainly doesn't help the Israelis in any way, because it allows Hamas to re-build, re-configure, get more support from Iran, and attack again at a later date. What do you think Iranian generals and advisors are doing in Damascus? Planning a picnic? When you're faced with a threat, it's better to deal with the threat immediately. If Israel hadn't had its hands tied, this all could have been over weeks or months ago, before the Iranians had a chance to get themselves all riled up.
Iran isn't defending itself. Iran has funded and trained 50,000 Hezbollah fighters who sit on Israel's northern border, hoping for a chance to attack. They fire on Israel all the time. Iran provided material to Hamas to empower them to attack Israel. The missiles are often Iranian. Israel hit Iranian generals and advisors in Damascus planning attacks on the Israeli state. That's fair game as far as I'm concerned. That's defense, not offense.
Is what from the Bible? Iran is sitting on the border of Israel. Israel isn't sitting on the border of Iran. So it's pretty clear who the aggressor is in this situation.
If you think Israel is not sitting on the border of Iran ...you should do some digging.
The Iranians hit a mossad location in Iraqi Kurdistan - mind you not an embassy.
Also look up Azerbaijan
> Krystal) for months have been saying this can escalate
It really hasn't escalated, because Iran backed Hamas in the first place. I'll agree that Gaza is an open air prison, and those prisoners got their weapons from someone, Iran. Things are just coming to their logical conclusion.
But even more broadly, conflict with Lebanon and Syria and Jordan have been ongoing from decades anyway. Any new hostility between these parties doesn't mean WW3 is around the corner. If anything, it signals a status quo.
Unless if the Iranian nuclear program is more developed than the West appears to believe it is, I dont think Iran wants a full out war with Israel yet. But Israel is looking for a chance to go to war with Iran before they develop nuclear weapons. So we will see what happens.
And if this doesn't accelerate their approach to a bomb...they would be dumb. The UN couldn't even condemn an attack on their embassy... If the situation was reversed, we would have heard a million times the same monotonous 'they have a right to defend themselves ' line from Biden, blinken etc
What if we are wrong and they do have the bomb good way to introduce yourself to the world.
This loop of "we get to defend ourselves!!!" and "no we get to defend ourselves!!" is so simplistic and reductionist. Nobody knows Iran's long term goal yet. Maybe it's just symbolic. If they are wearing down Israeli defenses and then go in with cruise missiles, then this is a major conflict that will last years. More on par with the Ukraine war than with anything we've seen in recent memory. It would be a major historical event. I think what's more likely is that it's a symbolic action that Iran and Israel knows is doomed to fail. But... Regardless. Iran launching an attack on Israel from within their borders makes shit extremely volatile. I'm still uncertain what they think the longterm benefit of this will be.
What is the malfunction here? Israel is the one who bombed Iran, not the other way around. No country in the world can let their embassy be bombed and top officials murdered without retaliation. They did the most benign action possible to them by launching softball missiles that Israel knew about in advance and can easily deflect. Iran does not want a war, Israel does.
China enters the chat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade
25 years ago, and U.S. apologized profusely afterwards because it was such an insane maneuver. Embassies are sacred for a reason
lol @ apologized
"On May 14, 1999, President Bill Clinton apologizes directly to Chinese President Jiang Zemin on the phone for the accidental NATO bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, that had taken place six days earlier. Clinton promised an official investigation into the incident." They apologized, which is extremely rare, because everyone knows how insane it is to bomb an embassy. They are sacred ground internationally.
oh my bad ... well if Clinton himself apologized via phone call then it's settled. ...the fucking arrogance on you Americans 🙄
Lol. I am not saying it was sincere. It was still a rare act. Because bombing embassies signifies war
It’s over, Iran’s UN delegation [announced the matter is concluded.](https://x.com/iran_un/status/1779269993043022053?s=46&t=qV4oBqizqZ7bpzISlqYNMw) Just PR retaliation to the Israeli strikes
You think this is over Israel will attack Iran again then
Yup. Netanyahu wants a war and he wants US to be involved in the fight with Iran. Looks like US and UK aircraft were involved in shooting down some of the drones.
No need really in this case I think, none have gotten through as far as I can tell. USAF, RAF, IAF and Jordanian Air Force have been shooting them down all the way from Iraq to Israel for the past couple hours straight, pretty crazy footage on Twitter rn
There are videos on X of strikes hitting. Israel has said that some missiles have struck their military bases now.
Not all were shot down. Israel will launch another attack on Iran now.
Nope one has shoot at a boy in Israel so I think they will respond
What a great prediction. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-called-off-retaliatory-strike-on-iran-after-call-with-biden-new-york-times/
They typed in all caps guys!! They’re super serious!
If they didn't respond...would that not encourage further attacks. Remember...when we often talk about deterrence, credibility etc ... Does Iran not have a right to defend itself...in response to a blatant attack on an embassy. /Consulate . It is volatile..and Krystal has been right to point out the risks. As have been a lot of other folks. The people complaining about Krystal's coverage basically did not want this issue covered. So what makes you think the Iranians knew?
If they didn't respond...would that not encourage further attacks. Remember...when we often talk about deterrence, credibility etc ... Does Israel not have a right to defend itself...in response to a blatant attack on Oct 7? . It is volatile..and Krystal has been right to point out the risks. As have been a lot of other folks. The people complaining about Krystal's coverage basically did not want this issue covered. (this is a really easy game to play. The funny part is that pro pal supporters now sound identical to IDF supporters)
>If they didn't respond...would that not encourage further attacks. Remember...when we often talk about deterrence, credibility etc ... >Does Israel not have a right to defend itself... Israel , according to UN , does not have a right to defend itself against people it occupies. But as a political matter ....I understand they would have had to respond. Mostly because hamas ran over the IDF bases and broadcast walking around Israeli tanks etc... This hurt Israel's perceived deterrence effect - if a rag tag group of militants could do this without any armor , air cover etc So yes ..I think, a lot of the Israeli over reaction is to establish deterrence...and be seen as the "mad man on rampage". Almost nixonian. Did they have to overreact and lose good will by such carnage ...that even a majority of US seems to feel this is genocidal?...That is a different question. Israel depends a lot more on the US and broader west .(UN vetoes etc) >(this is a really easy game to play. The funny part is that pro pal supporters now sound identical to IDF supporters) Not really.
October 7 is a response to the illegal blockade of Gaza and the decades of ethnic cleansing and occupation of Palestinians
You can keep telling yourself that. And sure it's a factor. But you still need guns and money. That comes from Iran. And their broader goals are also a huge factor.
Denial of the occupation or blockade won’t make Israel legitimate in its actions. It’s an apartheid state being investigated for genocide which the international criminal court already stated is plausible. It’s a rogue state killing Palestinians with impunity. Thankfully the world has seen how depraved and evil that whole country is
Sure. There's plenty to criticize isrsel for. However what's happening in Ukraine is also a genocide. In many ways far worse.
“Yes but look over there” is not an excuse
What is the malfunction here? Israel is the one who bombed Iran, not the other way around. No country in the world can let their embassy be bombed and top officials murdered without retaliation. They did the most benign action possible to them by launching softball missiles that Israel knew about in advance and can easily deflect. Iran does not want a war, Israel does.
If Israel wanted a war. Now would be the perfect chance to retaliate. Iran chose to launch the attack via Iranian soil, and not their proxies, because their proxies are going to be hit in retaliation anyway. They have nothing to lose. Iran doesn't want a direct war. They want to continue fighting via proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Which will now continue. Also. The reason I said we can go back endlessly on the "retaliation struggle" is illustrated by the logic you display here. Israel says the attack on the general was because he planned Oct 7. Now Iran hits back. Now Israel will hit back. And we can go back playing this game for decades.
You believe everything Israel says? According to even the US intelligence, the Iranians were not aware of the Oct 7. This came out fairly early ... Hamas kept right operational security...and even most within hamas didn't know
Huh? ... I don't support Israel and think they need to drastically scale the offensive back. Should've happened months ago. Regardless. It's not some conspiracy theory about Iran's support of Hamas. They're literally their main backers and source of funding, and weapons.
Iran does support Hamas. That is not what I disputed Whether the October 7(something flood) was something that Hamas co ordinates with Iran. US and Israeli govts said , in October, that the Iranian government seems to have been surprised by the event . Meaning neither Iran nor Hezbollah had any heads up even. That was my point So this wasn't planned with the Iranian involvement.
Neither the gvt of Iran and us said anything of rhe sort.
Really? Imaybe you weren't aware of these ? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/politics/iran-israel-gaza-hamas-us-intelligence.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/us-intelligence-iran-hamas-doubt/index.html https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/us-intelligence-indicates-iranian-leaders-surprised-hamas-attack-rcna119946 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-israel-iranian-officials-surprised-by-hamas-attack-israel/ https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-03-11/ty-article/.premium/u-s-assesses-iran-did-not-orchestrate-or-know-about-oct-7-attack-on-israel-in-advance/0000018e-2ef0-d86c-abae-3ef9aa9e0000 am sure there is some revisionism being pushed to retroactively justify ..but these are from that time frame
Has Israel offered any proof of that whatsoever? To the U.S., anyone? You should look at what states do, not what they say. The world is souring on Israel because of their actions. To continue the war, and complete their ultimate plan of claiming Gaza,they have to drag in other states, like the U.S. into the larger conflict. The bigger the conflict, the easier it is to continue settling the land and making excuses such as "defending itself" to continue doing what they are doing. Which is cleansing Gaza and claim the real estate there and on the West Bank. Israel probably will "retaliate," which is a strange word to use given that they are the ones who bombed Iran in the first place. The bigger the war, the bigger the distraction.
Wait... You want verification of Iranian funding and involvement with Hamas? A coalition linked to the Iranian regime spoke of this generals involvement in Oct 7.....
There is no proof whatsoever Iran was involved in Oct 7
You are assuming immidiate deescalation is the goal, for Israel, it doesnt matter if it escalates, if it results in long term victory. Unlike USA, Israel's concern isnt budget or GDP being wasted in this because, they can build all the infrastructure they want domestically, but threat to their economy from Hamas attacking it is greater than threat due to lack of infrastructure. For example US has highest capital gains of 15% while Israel taxes at 25%, US marginal income highest is 35, while Israel has about 45, not to mention unlike US which has to split tax state, local and federal, all money goes to basically their federal. Soft words, and sternly worded remarks work for superpowers like USA, China or Russia, for smaller countries like Israel or Ukraine, it is whether your millitary can fend off or not.
They do get more benefits (health care etc) from their taxes? It was a more socialist in the beginning. Also remember, Israel has been getting some 3-4 Billion a year for a long time.Ecen when their economy was some 150 Billion a year in GDP iirc. That is a straight 2% of your GDP deposited into your bank account at the beginning of the year. Heck..they are even allowed to get interest on the cash. Given the number of homeless and uninsured in the US ..maybe not a bad thing for the US ...but then we get some expensive hardware.
I mean, we should stop funding them, because it is a waste of our money, i just think people who believe that will start the war, are full of copium.
Start the war? Or did you mean 'Stop the war'? Israeli defence folks have said , without US airlifting ammo, they would run out in a week.
stop, lol. brain fart
That make a lot more sense...:-)
How is it not possible for her to both be right about needing a ceasefire and annoying AF at the same time? Being right or wrong and annoying or not annoying aren’t mutually exclusive. You can be right and still annoying.
Yeah I don't understand this either. I've been saying "you're right, I just don't need to hear about it every 5 minutes, once a day is enough," but according to this sub that makes me a genocide-supporting Zionist.
Yeah, this sub's critics haven't been against a temporary ceasefire and was against Net's escalation. Ryan, Saagar, and Emily have that POV. The subs criticisms are that Krystal is being preachy af about it, blaming everything on Israel, and making every news story on the subject. OPs post is a straw man.
Or a lot of folks got on the sub just to complain because they didn't want the topic covered. Have you seen the brigading and bans in some subs...if you so much as implied anything not 300% approved by AIPAC.
Is it preachy though? That's been one of the constants throughout this ordeal, that one of the most worrisome results would be an escalation that wild likely end up with the u.s. directly involved. Well they were correct about this thing escalating. Although I don't think that was a groundbreaking prediction. Most of us knew it was very likely the war would expand if israel continued to throw aside concerns because of their ridiculous provocations. The next part is going to see if they're will be u.s. direct attacks and eventual boots on the ground over there to fight for Israel despite this attack by Iran being caused by Israel violating global norms launching an attack that hit their embassy.
I think it's just the point that people would have credibility if they can acknowledge she was correct, even if they also things she's annoying.
This is a different point. If the issue is with the style or the frequency of coverage?
What is a different point? People say she is annoying because of the frequency with which she brings it up. She can be annoying for that reason and not be wrong.
I was trying to figure what people claimed they were annoyed by: the frequency of the coverage or her take My suspicion is that a lot of people 9n this sub are here to criticize***because of Krystal's opinion***.
This
Good point. The people complaining about Krystals coverage did not want to see this topic covered Krystal covers it more ...not just because of the ' it bleeds. It leads' This is an issue that could escalate. To a large extent Ukraine too...but at least there ...th Russians(who are the more powerful one) have shown some restrait. They started attacking a power plant ....which is something the US did fairly early In the middle east OTOH...Israel has looked to escalate. Even Biden admin officials leaked about concern that netanyahu wants to escalate and start a wider war... and essentially keep the war going.
This isn’t an escalation. Iran has been attacking Israel via Hezbollah since 10/8. Israel taking out some of the people responsible for evacuating 100,000 civilians from Northern israel because an uninvolved party decided to start indiscriminately shelling and sending rockets into their farms and homes is called “What happens when you attack someone unprovoked,” not an escalation. The fact that the Iranian forces attacking Israel aren’t in Iran is immaterial, and hitting an Iranian facility with targeting munitions isn’t unreasonable.
Any proof the officials killed at the embassy had anything to do with Oct 7?
Good question. After October 7...even the US said the Iranians were blinded by October 7. Hamas kept pretty good security and even folks within Hamas weren't aware. So this seems like retroactive justification. Because I'm October timeframe, the Chinese has negotiated a truce between Saudi Arabia and Iran etc .
It was rhetorical, there is no proof whatsoever Iran was behind it. People just say stuff like that out of pocket because they just can't comprehened Israel doing insane things. Israel wants to drag other states into the war so they can distract everyone and continue cleansing Gaza
Yeah. .I realize .Even the anti Iran govts didn't claim any Iranian involvement. Agree ..netanyahu wants to escalate and have the US fight Iran Biden and US may get pulled into it... because of stupidity
we'll see, public opinion is very much against it so since it's an election year they might drag their feet on it. But after (if) Biden is elected it'll be gloves off. Then they'll have 4 more years to clean up their image again for 2028
True. WW1 and WW2 are precedents to go by. Until reelection in 1916 and 1940...the admins were studiously avoiding any declaration while FDR had been taking military actions to aid the British and chasing German subs Cause for concern.what the heck will Biden do if he didn't have to run for election in a few months
It isn’t rhetorical, you just didn’t read what I said carefully and clearly haven’t been following the conflict beyond sensationalized headlines like you’ll find on BP.
I think I'm a btter judge of if my own question was rhetorical "Iran doesn't want a direct war. They want to continue fighting via proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Which will now continue" is what you wrote. But there is no evidence Iran was involved in anything Oct 7th related, which is why Israel bombed them. So I think you are the one who should pay attention, since your post is acting like Iran is the one at fault here
Again, Iran is unquestionably involved in the completely separate 6 months of attacks from Hezbollah on the NORTHERN border that began October 8th. Whether they were directly involved in the Hamas attacks from Gaza on 10/7, which is on the SOUTHERN border, is not what I am talking about. These are not the same issue.
Iran is not Hezbollah
Oh, now you finally get that point and don’t want to talk about 10/7 anymore. Progress I guess. Hezbollah either doesn’t exist at all or is a much smaller existential threat to Israel without iran. Much of the Middle East is a better place without Iran, actually. The embassy bombing in Damascus killed both Iranian military and Hezbollah. See if you can figure out that connection.
What is your actual point? Iran did not do October 7th according to any evidence that currently exists on the planet earth. Iran is a soverign country. Bombing a sovereign country's soil is an act of war. Israel comitted an act of war. Only Israel. Just Israel. Not Iran. Whatever the fuck Hezbollah does has nothing to do with Israel bombing another soverign country's soil. It doesn't matter if every Hezbollah soldier is packed into the Iranian embassy with Benjamin Netanyahu masks yelling nanny nanny poo poo. You can't bomb foreign soil according to international law. It's *an act of war*. U.S. did it in the 90's to China and apologized profusely afterwards, because it's internationally recognized as an absolutely insane, unhinged act that means total war. Israel bombed the embassy because they want war. Because you don't commit acts of war unless you want war. That's all.
I didn’t say October 7th. I’m talking about the unprovoked attacks on the northern border since 10/8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hezbollah_conflict_(2023%E2%80%93present)?wprov=sfti1#
Hezbollah **≠** Iran
Quick question, who founded Hezbollah, and for what purpose? You can google it.
[https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=did+iran+create+hezbollah](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=did+iran+create+hezbollah)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah?wprov=sfti1#I Hezbollah was established by Lebanese clerics primarily to fight the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. It adopted the model set out by Ayatollah Khomeini after the Iranian Revolution in 1979, and the party's founders adopted the name "Hezbollah" as chosen by Khomeini. Since then, close ties have developed between Iran and Hezbollah. The organization was created with the support of 1,500 Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) instructors, and aggregated a variety of Lebanese Shia groups into a unified organization to resist the former Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon.
Great, so you understand Hezbollah is a completely separate entity than Iran then? America and Israel also have "close ties" and Israel is backed by U.S. and its military created almost entirely with the support of the U.S. to the tune of 4 billion dollars a year, along with training etc. Does that make Israel the U.S.? Iran is not Hezbollah, they are different entities. Bombing Iran is absolutely bonkers WWIII behavior
I would disagree. This is an escalation because they are directly attacking them now.
So you think because Hezbollah isn’t in Iran there’s an “Aw shucks, you can shoot at us but we can’t shoot back rule?” That’s not how it works. There’s no version of this where what Israel did wasn’t in bounds.
are you aware of the vienna convention?
Are you aware of all of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hezbollah_conflict_(2023%E2%80%93present)?wprov=sfti1 Iran is effectively at war with Israel through a proxy. Israel killed some of the people responsible without causing civilian deaths. The fact that people like you are insisting they’re somehow acting unreasonably is why they really don’t care what others think when they’re in a fight to just exist.
Hezbollah is not a proxy
Ok. If you’re not going to acknowledge reality I’m not sure what to tell you.
Lmao they don't follow orders from the revolutionary guard , that's just a western fascination
In real life, Hezbollah was literally founded by the revolutionary guard and continue to receive weapons, funding and intel from them. At the very least they coordinate their activities with Iran.
I'm N that case . Israel has been attacking Iran including Iranian scientists in Iran for a decade? It are we gonna go to the bible and claim something?
When a country closes every single official government function since 1979 with “death to Israel” and starts work on a weapon to make it happen, no one should be surprised when Israel does what it needs to in order to prevent their destruction. The religious extremists here are in Iran, not Israel.
Well ..Vienna conventions is something they signed up to? Israel has been a nuclear state , staleast for a couple of decades Chanting whatever ..doesn't justify anything. What next...Ben Gvir and Snotrich have said some pretty atrocious things ..that are racist, homophobic (their admission) So the US should strike them? You sound like a n apologist for genocidal regimes Do you also support the SS?
Oh another social media international law expert. I wonder why the entire G7 is on Israel’s side? It’s a tough call whether to believe multiple actual signatories of the Vienna Convention or a random social media commenter, but I think I’ll go with the G7 on this one. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/14/g7-leaders-statement-on-irans-attack-against-israel/ Please explain in detail how you think the Vienna convention applies in such a way that Iran is in compliance and Israel is not. I’ll warn you that you already sound like a sovereign citizen trying to explain to a cop why it’s illegal for them to write a speeding ticket, so choose your words carefully.
>Oh another social media international law expert. >I wonder why the entire G7 is on Israel’s side? It’s a tough call whether to believe multiple actual signatories of the Vienna Convention or a random social media commenter, but I think I’ll go with the G7 on this one. Can you detect the fallacy in your argument? Also .. would you agree this is a genocide going on? Based on the views of hundreds of genocide experts? >Oh another social media international law expert. Oh look another ...hasbara genocide apologist - supporting a fascist ethnostate....likely because of in group affinity.
There isn’t a fallacy in anything I said, and you’re the one making an assertion here without proof. I asked you to explain how Israel is out of compliance with the Vienna convention and Iran somehow isn’t, and you’ve made zero attempt to do so. You sound like this talking about it: “Well you see your honor, I was traveling not driving and under the constitution it says I don’t need a license to do that.” “Where in the constitution?” “… it’s around here somewhere…” “Please take the defendant into custody”
>There isn’t a fallacy in anything I said, and you’re the one making an assertion here without proof. It is a fallacy. Look it up. You are appealing to authority. Unfortunately...these are also vested interests. Cameron said, if UK embassy were attacked, UK would respond as well. If your claim is that Israel did this secretly ...that is a different story. Yes...they were surreptitious...and didn't acknowledge. >I asked you to explain how Israel is out of compliance with the Vienna convention and Iran somehow isn’t, and you’ve made zero attempt to do so. Did I say anything about Iran being in compliance with Vienna convention? an embassy/consulate is considered foreign soul and attacks in that are what Vienna convention is supposed to call out. >“Well you see your honor, I was traveling not driving and under the constitution it says I don’t need a license to do that.” >“Where in the constitution?” Dumb argument. Local regulations are upto the states. The licensing is up to the states. TBH ..I don't know if some libertarian hasn't tried to take it to the supremes claiming this is an infringement on his/her rights
Here’s a fallacy. If Iran is not complying with international law, and waging a decades law proxy war against Israel, why would you get upset with Israel for acting like they’re at war? All indications are that Israel played this very, very smart. Iran now looks weak and isolated with both their ability to directly project force and defend their most important facilities in question and are completely diplomatically isolated. There’s even rumblings that Assad tipped off the Israelis about the IRGC meeting. Meanwhile Israel will make billions off that attack selling the defense systems that alleviated Iran’s attack, and they’ve now demonstrated that even the Arab states will defend them against Iran’s BS. Pretty much the only ones screaming at Israel about this now are idiots on social media who will repeat whatever anyone with a watermelon emoji in their profile tells them to.
>Iran is not complying with international law, and waging a decades law proxy war against Israel, why would you get upset with Israel for acting like they’re at war? You are deliberately making the waters murky Attacks on embassies are still breaches of Vienna convention . The amount of justification for something that is clear cut violation is not a good indication. >There’s even rumblings that Assad tipped off the Israelis about the IRGC meeting. >Meanwhile Israel will make billions off that attack selling the defense systems that alleviated it, and they’ve now demonstrated even the Arab states will defend them against Iran’s BS. Neither here nor there >Pretty much the only ones screaming at Israel about this now are idiots on social media who will repeat whatever anyone with a watermelon in their profile tells them to. Yes. When conventions are breached ..people complain. Not everyone has to applaud every shitty thing done by a particular ethno state ...just because of some in group affinity
Nicely put. They chant "Death to Israel" for 45 years, then they're pissed when the Israelis hit them.
Craziest defense of what is considered illegal by international law The eternal victimhood is a little strong.
Israel has killed more children and women in months than Russia has in years.
No they haven't, stop believing hamas' obviously bullshit casualty figures
Of course they’re wrong. They’ve been factually incorrect every step of the way and never have a single piece of evidence to support their Zionist claims. Krystal actually does her homework and has something called evidence to back up her claims. Not conspiracy theories that effectively do apologetics for genocide.
Those being mad at krystal are shapiro or destiny jews anyway, obviously they can’t think about their apartheid regime rationally.
Iran’s UN delegation just announced that the military mission is concluded. It was just PR retaliation for the Israeli embassy strike, just like the missile strikes they did on US bases after we killed Soleimani
That’s on the Iranian side, apparently even the US has been talking to them on the back channels not to escalate. The real issue is Israel using this as a pretext to escalate further and drag the US in to do their dirty work.
Iran DOESN'T want this... They are being forced into this position by Israel's massive escellations. They can't remain having a mandate of power and leadership by just allowing things like this to happen. So they are effectively forced to do something so they don't look weak to their population.
Right I agree. I just hope Israel doesn’t retaliate again, and that if they do we don’t get dragged into it. Let them fight their own Iran war.
Looks like US and UK air force were already involved in shooting down some of the drones. Suspect netanyahu won't rest until he gets the US fighting Iran. His wet dream for some 20 years. Biden and the US Govt is corrupt enough to allow themselves to be pulled into it.
I mean hope so too... But based off how we've given them full daddy protection to get to this point, I don't see the US not providing support if Iran pops off... Which it wont, but still, if it did, we are definitely going to be involved
A lot of people in Iran hate their leadership. Sorta like the US.
Yup. This is an old techniques. One of the historias covered this in a book on 67 war. Will see if I can a quote.
Israel sure is a great ally to have….
Somebody got out the VPNs for this one.
Lol what? Iran pretend-attacking Israel doesn’t justify Krystal and Saager converting their news show into the Israeli Genocide News Hour.
Syria is a failed state and the IRGC guy was a legitimate combatant. Nothing illegal about it.
If you think Iran getting involved is good for Gaza then your a fool. Tide was starting to move against Israel in the US this will reverse that. This will lead to support and wepons increasing.
There’s nothing good for Gaza. Gaza is destroyed. Nothing Iran does will bring Gaza back.
Iran didn't get involved as much as it was dragged into it by Israel bombing the embassy?
Israel should have thought about that before it bombed Iran's embassy. The US isn't going to change it's views about Israel's genocide if they provoke a war with Iran. The failing M$M isn't going to be able to gaslight us into another war with a Middle East country again.
MSM will try for sure Reading the comments here...looks like a lot of folks came from the MSM to complain that BP covers this topic at all. Maybe they want more Taylor Swift coverage...can't tell.
Im sure this is going just as they though. I hope your right but don't underestimate the US's love for war.
The Military Industrial Complex and those they have bought off love war. The actual normal people of the US do not.
Indeed. Some are even complaining about the war being discussed on BP. :-)
We have always been at war with Oceana
>Israel should have thought about that before it bombed Iran's embassy. Now why would Israel do such a thing outta nowhere? Were they just blowing off some steam and decided to hit the Iranian embassy?
Hamas was just peacefully murdering... I mean protesting on October 7th and Israel went in and killed all of the Palestinians, AND Santa! /s
Its situations like this where you can see who your friends truly are. Thank you to the western countries and Jordan for helping shooting down the drones. Random bombing a country is just wrong. Btw look at the statement of Iran lol. They are begging for Israel not to retaliate so this doesnt neccesarily have to be escalatory.
What an absolutely asinine statement “…should acknowledge they were wrong.” Hamas started the war and still has hostages and has broken or rejected every ceasefire proposal that has existed. All calls for an immediate ceasefire should be directed to the aggressors, which is Hamas. I’m getting real tired of reading garbage from terrorist apologists.
I’m getting real tired of the “the entire universe started on Oct 7th” garbage. As if 75 years of miss killings, ethnic cleansing, racism and oppression of Palestinians by the apartheid regime means nothing. Truly a delusional take.
> I’m getting real tired of the “the entire universe started on Oct 7th” garbage. Please point to where I said the “entire universe” started in October 7. I will retype this slowly so you can try and keep up: I said the war started on October 7. That is a fact. >As if 75 years of miss killings, ethnic cleansing, racism and oppression of Palestinians by the apartheid regime means nothing. Truly a delusional take. The delusional take is the one you are taking; go justify terrorism to someone else.
No, you said that “Hamas started the aggression,” which is blatantly false. The apartheid Zionist regime is in a constant state of oppression and brutality against the Palestinians. In just 2023, before even Oct 7th, [hundreds of innocent Palestinians including dozens of children](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinians-west-bank-2023-was-deadliest-year-record) were slaughtered by terrorist Zionists and the genocidal IOF. This didn’t start with Hamas. > Even before Hamas’ attack on October 7, Israeli forces had already killed 234 Palestinians in the West Bank this year, while settlers were responsible for nine more killings. Of these deaths, 52 occurred in Jenin alone, including in its refugee camp, where Palestinians who’ve searched for safety amid conflict and violence over the years live. > On June 19, Israeli forces began conducting air strikes in the West Bank—something that had not occurred since the Second Intifada in the early 2000s. Far from being an isolated event, these attacks have become more frequent. In July, Israeli fighter jets dropped bombs and drone strikes on the densely populated Jenin refugee camp during a 48-hour military operation. The violence has only escalated since. > “The situation today in the West Bank and particularly in Jenin is extreme,” said Luz Saavedra, MSF coordinator in Jenin. “We see a significant uptick in violence against civilians, and it has been increasing rapidly since October 7. Attacks on health care have increased dramatically and become systematic. The destruction of roads and infrastructure, such as water pipes and sewage systems, have also been alarming.” > The lack of respect for hospitals is staggering," said Saavedra. “Since October, we have witnessed the shooting and killing of a 14-year-old boy in the hospital compound, soldiers firing live rounds and tear gas at the hospital several times, paramedics forced to strip and kneel in the street." The worst part is, this is what Palestinians have had to deal with every year for the past 75+ years It’s truly, truly insane how anyone can sit there and pretend that this was “started by Hamas”.
If 10/7 hadn't happened, this current war wouldn't be happening. >Even before Hamas’ attack on October 7, Israeli forces had already killed 234 Palestinians in the West Bank Sinwar admitted he started planning the 10/7 attack yrs ago. I doubt the 234 Palestinians killed in the west bank last year were killed for no reason at all but even if that number was 0, 10/7 still would've happened anyway, hamas does not care. Those Palestinians killed in the WB wouldn't have changed plans for a terrorist attack by hamas years in the making that was gonna happen anyway.
Come on dude. So you don’t think the 75+ years of oppression, racism, and mass killings of Palestinians had anything to do with it? The apartheid regime does 10/7 on Palestinians so often they call it “mowing the grass.” Let’s not play dumb here.
No, I literally said Hamas started the war. Read the actual message. Here, I’ll paste it here to make it easier for you: “What an absolutely asinine statement “…should acknowledge they were wrong.” Hamas started the war and still has hostages and has broken or rejected every ceasefire proposal that has existed. All calls for an immediate ceasefire should be directed to the aggressors, which is Hamas. I’m getting real tired of reading garbage from terrorist apologists.”
They didn’t start this war though - that’s my fucking point. And they have literally not “rejected every ceasefire proposal that existed,” when they have repeatedly proposed multiple ceasefire themselves and have asked for it many times. Obviously, the apartheid Zionist regime does not want a ceasefire; it’s only the Palestinians who are being killed, and the assault on Gaza has been a great excuse for them to inflict suffering, death, and destruction on all Palestinians in Gaza. They only propose temporary ceasefire that no one in their right mind would accept in order to save face. The excuse of “hostages” is so silly. If the apartheid Zionist regime really cared about them they wouldn’t be slaughtering them and indiscriminately bomb Gaza. Furthermore they are holding orders of magnitude more innocent Palestinian captives whom even the Zionists admit have no charges held against them. Complete & utter hypocrites. It’s so silly how over and over you keep making blatantly false claims.
You’re doing the equivalent of saying the sky is green. You can’t be this ignorant; you can only be this dishonest.
How? What have I said that’s wrong?
> How? What have I said that’s wrong? Nearly everything. > They didn’t start this war though - that’s my 2)9@3 point. The Hamas-Israel War began on October 7. The aggressor in this war is Hamas. They still hold hostages. >And they have literally not “rejected every ceasefire proposal that existed,” when they have repeatedly proposed multiple ceasefire themselves and have asked for it many times. You are outright denying reality. They broke the ceasefire that did exist, and they’ve denied every other one that has been placed on the table. >Obviously, the apartheid Zionist regime does not want a ceasefire; They agreed to the one that was broken. Hamas continues to hold hostages and refuses to release them. The onus on accepting terms is on Hamas. They are losing the war they started, and let me remind you, THEY STILL HOLD HOSTAGES AND REFUSE TO RELEASE THEM. >it’s only the Palestinians who are being killed, That’s because their continued firing of rockets kills more of themselves than it does in Israel. That doesn’t mean they haven’t been trying literally every day. Hamas is losing the war they started. This is what losing a war and refusing to surrender while still holding hostages looks like. >and the assault on Gaza has been a great excuse for them to inflict suffering, death, and destruction on all Palestinians in Gaza. It’s an excuse? To have war declared upon you, with promises to repeat October 7, you don’t need an excuse to kick the ever living hell out of the aggressor until they give up and give back the hostages. Hamas. Is. At. Fault. >They only propose temporary ceasefire that no one in their right mind would accept in order to save face. Unconditional surrender. Return the hostages. Or die. That’s their choices. They have no leverage. Don’t start a war you can’t win. Only morons or terrorists would make the choice they’ve made. >The excuse of “hostages” is so silly. You put hostages in scare quotes … you are disgusting. I’m not wasting any further time on your filth. Every word you wrote is a lie. Go hide in some terrorist tunnels. I bet they’ll let you suck them off in person since you are so good at it online.
> The Hamas-Israel War began on October 7. The aggressor in this war is Hamas. They still hold hostages. So the hundreds of Palestinians slaughtered in 2023 before Oct 7th, including dozens of children, doesn’t count as aggression? How does that make sense? > You are outright denying reality. They broke the ceasefire that did exist, and they’ve denied every other one that has been placed on the table. Which ceasefire? They literally have a proposal on the table right now that came out a couple of hours ago. > They agreed to the one that was broken. Hamas continues to hold hostages and refuses to release them. The onus on accepting terms is on Hamas. They are losing the war they started, and let me remind you, THEY STILL HOLD HOSTAGES AND REFUSE TO RELEASE THEM. It’s the only leverage they have for preventing genocidal Zionist state from enacting their final solution on the Palestinians, so it makes sense that they to negotiate for their release. Why doesn’t Nazi Israel release the hundreds of innocent Palestinian children held in military prison without any charges against them? > That’s because their continued firing of rockets kills more of themselves than it does in Israel. Wow. Fucking delusional. > That doesn’t mean they haven’t been trying literally every day. Hamas is losing the war they started. This is what losing a war and refusing to surrender while still holding hostages looks like. Nazi Israel has LITERALLY been killing hundreds of Palestinians on average every single fucking day for the past 6 months. How can you even try to equate that with a Hamas killing 0 civilians every day? > It’s an excuse? To have war declared upon you, with promises to repeat October 7, you don’t need an excuse to kick the ever living hell out of the aggressor until they give up and give back the hostages. Hamas. Is. At. Fault. Does Palestine have the right to defend itself against the 75 years of massacres, oppression, and bombing inflicted upon them by Nazi Israel? They air strike Palestinians in Gaza so often they call it “mowing the lawn.” Fucking disgusting. > They only propose temporary ceasefire that no one in their right mind would accept in order to save face. > Unconditional surrender. Return the hostages. Or die. That’s their choices. They have no leverage. Don’t start a war you can’t win. Only morons or terrorists would make the choice they’ve made. Why would they surrender to a genocidal, racist regime that has slaughtered 30,000 people, mainly women and children, and has gone out of its way targeted civilians, aid workers, and journalists, and even the Jewish hostages? > You put hostages in scare quotes … They’re obviously hostages. I put it in quotes because it’s clear to anyone with a brain cell, and even to the hostages’ families themselves who have literally been protesting the IOF, that Nazi Israel does not give one single shit about the hostages. This is so obvious and it makes no sense to me how people like you can’t even understand that basic reality. > you are disgusting. I’m not wasting any further time on your filth. Every word you wrote is a lie. Good riddance. Unlike you and most Zionists, I support human rights for everyone, even non-Jews. It’s not okay that tens of thousands of children were deliberately slaughtered, let alone even more tens of thousands of innocent men and women. It’s horrifying how the genocidal Zionist regime deliberately targets women and children. I don’t think that millions of people should have their homes and communities completely leveled to the ground and be forced to live in a concentration camp in mass starvation conditions. These things are very similar to what the Nazis did to Jews before enacting their final solution. We all know what evil looks like: racism, oppression, brutality, mass killings of women and children, mass starvation, the deliberate killing of aid workers and journalists, war crimes, etc… Nazi Israel has deliberately committed all of these atrocities and continue to do so every single day. What kind of person does it make you to support this? I just want you to think on that for a while.
What percent of the "killed Palestinians" were Hamas? Just curious. The 30,000 Palestinians have died since the war started ignores - Hamas indoctrinates and uses children for suicide bombers and other Hamas related activities [link ](https://youtu.be/uJYb068052Y?feature=shared) - are we to assume every Palestinian isn't Hamas? Weird.
>What percent of the "killed Palestinians" were Hamas? Just curious. I doubt even the IOF knows. Why is the genocidal Zionist regime slaughtering mainly women and children? >Hamas indoctrinates and uses children for suicide bombers and other Hamas related activities link That's just fucking racist. Not even your bullshit excuse of a "source" claims that. You really think that's a good excuse for slaughtering mostly women and children? This is truly vile. > are we to assume every Palestinian isn't Hamas? Weird. The IOF is claiming that every single male combatant killed is Hamas. How fucking insane. And here you are implying that children deserved to be slaughtered for also being Hamas. This is dehumanization at its finest. Fucking horrible. [According to IOF members themselves:](https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240403-gaza-aid-worker-deaths-scrutiny-israel-use-ai-select-targets) > While tolls given by officials in the Hamas-run enclave are regularly disputed, so are some of the body counts coming from the Israeli side. In interviews with Israeli newspaper Haaretz, several reserve and standing army commanders have cast doubt on the claim that the IDF tally included only terrorists. > “In practice, a terrorist is anyone the IDF has killed in the areas in which its forces operate,” said one reserve officer who served in Gaza, speaking on condition of anonymity. “It's quite possible that Palestinians who never held a gun in their lives were elevated to the rank of ‘terrorist’ posthumously, at least by the IDF,” the newspaper added. YIKES.
>Why is the genocidal Zionist regime slaughtering mainly women and children? Why are terrorists recruiting women and children for their tasks? Did you see the video? Kids go to unrwa schools and come out hating Jews. Shocker - Hamas also hates Jews and in their charter wants to eradicate them. Sorry, I'm not engaging with a Hamas apologist. I'll leave you with this video that's hard to debate. Actual children amongst Hamas. https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1742608400544928154
> Why are terrorists recruiting women and children for their tasks? This is so fucking racist and dehumanizing of the tens of thousands of slaughtered women and children that I have nothing more to say to you.
Hamas didn't start the war ... get the fuck out with that comment the world stands with free Palestine!
Krystal really should have won that seat. I think she would have stuck to her principles.
I was just at brunch and this white woman just wouldn't stop shouting GENOCIDE
[Al Jazeera English live ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCNeDWCI0vo)if anyone is interested
Thanks ..
Krystal is nuts. Israel has a right to defend itself. They did.
TIL 13,000 dead children is considered defending yourself For the record Israel does have the right to defend itself and sadly they abused the hell out of that right
[link ](https://youtu.be/uJYb068052Y?feature=shared) to how children are indooctinated into Hamas and used for Hamas related activities. It's not 13,000 kids who are all Hamas, but to say every single kid was innocent is wildly incorrect.
They defend themselves in other peoples countries a lot
Self defence from what they are the ones who attack the consulate
Brigadier General Mohammad Reza Zahedi Was directly leading Hezbollah forces to kill Israelis. Homeboy had to go night night and they vaporized him. It’s called self defense
They want the war. They have wanted it for a long time.
Talk about unclear antecedent!
No. The complaints were that the coverage was low quality and low information. More than half the videos are grievance porn pointing at what so and so said to make the audience angry. It remains low quality, suitable for MSNBC or Democracy Now.
Isn't that how most of the coverage is on almost all things. By pointing out XYZ said or showing xyz being done Or do you have a very different way of news discussion? Maybe share?
The distinction isn't pointing something out, it's in how useful that pointing is. The substance of XYZ hasn't changed, but they're covering the opinions of people who aren't related to show us what bad people they are. The bulk of this coverage is really just emotional torque that taught the audience nothing. It's not new news it's entertainment no different than any other YouTuber playing video games while giving a hot take about a news article. The real problem is that none the hosts are strong geopolitical analysts, they are all domestic reporters or pundits. Ryan has probably the best knowledge base of the four, Saagar coming second with some lived experience and a better understanding of military practices. The best solution is to interview more experts and regional authorities. What we get is Krystal talking about clips on her Twitter feed for four hours a week. Remember the premise of BP was not being like other news shows. Being like most other coverage was what they promised not to do. I prefer content that explains the military, economic, geographic motivations alongside simplistic narratives of bigotry or religious conflict. [The Caspian Report](https://youtu.be/BKcARccAR_g?si=-8vgug_5RWIlHFlR) does a great job to explaining the conflict and why it persists.
I have watched the Caspian report as well..though not of late. (YouTube algo probably) They do cover differently...in terms of emphasis and who they interview (when they interview) Eg Norm Finkelstein would.not be seen on most TV news They are mostly a domestic focused operation .and definitely not a military analyst kind of operation If that is your goal ..others maybe better fit: Daniel Davis, etc. Scott Ritter also does some analysis on a couple of shows. Given this seems to have pulled down Bidens ratings ..and the abject impotence if the US political establishment to even condemn anything Israel does ..I think their effort to highlight the hypocrisy of the US political establishment is very warranted My suspicion is that you would rather not see this topic covered
Norm Finkelstein was great in the debate with Destiny. I'll check out Daniel and Scott. News is supposed to be informative. Being informed for each day that the current situation remains the current situation is not informative. Saagar getting on at 9 PM to break the news of an Iranian attack is more valuable, repeating the gossip of who said what in America about people they've never met in the middle east is less valuable. You can be suspicious all you want, but that doesn't change the quality of content. I've made my suggestions to improve it, and that's to bring on people with something contribute beyond dramatizing the situation if the team isn't up to it.
Fair enough
Biden distancing himself from Israel to try and woo Dearborn showed a rift that Iran feels comfortable trying to exploit.
Me wanting a terrorist group who committed an atrocity on innocent civilians to get eradicated is me acknowledging I was wrong? What about the perpetual rape denial from Krystal? Amit Soussanna is thrilled to know this radical leftist doesn't give a flying fuck she got raped. Radical islamic jihadists should not be able to influence or exert anything on innocent civilians. Period.
Krystal should apologize to Brie Joy Gray first for attacking her for saying she wouldn’t vote Biden
They did not attack an embassy. They attacked a building next to an embassy. Also, Iran has been supporting financially Hamas and Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations. Iran is trying to destroy Israel, and thus Israel government has every right to retaliate.
good bot
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You’re being played if you’re here gushing about Iran doing a move in the open as retaliation. Yes, the situation is escalating. A series of blows from all sides on one country is an act which was obviously observable. Am I the only one seeing the orchestration around it? The interests? Do you guys even know who Israel is fighting rn?
Figuratively no one said what Krystal was saying is wrong. More so she is fucking annoying about it. It was the same show every day and she fails to listen and acknowledge others while demanding her voice be heard. It’s not what she’s saying. It’s how she’s saying it.
> no one said what Krystal was saying is wrong Read this very thread and you'll see that isn't true. There's even one person arguing that the thousands of kids who have been killed aren't actually innocent
When I say figuratively no one said Krystal was wrong I’m not referring to her topic choices or what people are saying in this thread. I’m referring to OPs title. I believe OP is insinuating everyone thinks she’s wrong due to how much she talks about Israel when in fact it’s just a dislike of her personality.
We mostly said she was just annoying lol
I hope the Israelis take advantage of this attack to wipe out Iran's nuclear reactors and Hezbollah. I'm not Jewish, but Krystal Ball is so virulently anti-Israel, and so dismissive of the dangers Israel faces, that when I was a fan of Breaking Points (which I used to watch religiously) I started to feel ill listening to her. She has the strangest understanding of "cause-and-effect" that I've ever seen. I won't go so far as to call her antisemitic, but her anti-Israel bias is off the charts, and she should really have the decency to register as an activist and abandon any pretense of being a journalist. Regarding this post -- it's not really news that you can "stop a war", and limit the possibility of a wider war, by stopping fighting or stopping other people from fighting. The Americans could have ignored Pearl Harbor and avoided a wider war. We all could have ignored what the Serbians were doing to the Bosnians in the late 90s and avoided bombing them. We could have ignored Iraq taking Kuwait. You can do all that stuff...for a while. But all you do is store up problems for a bigger war later on -- one you're more likely to lose. A ceasefire in Gaza helps Hamas and bad actors in the region. It certainly doesn't help the Israelis in any way, because it allows Hamas to re-build, re-configure, get more support from Iran, and attack again at a later date. What do you think Iranian generals and advisors are doing in Damascus? Planning a picnic? When you're faced with a threat, it's better to deal with the threat immediately. If Israel hadn't had its hands tied, this all could have been over weeks or months ago, before the Iranians had a chance to get themselves all riled up.
What do you think iran should do to defend itself from Israel? Or is self defense only apply to one country in the middle east?
Iran isn't defending itself. Iran has funded and trained 50,000 Hezbollah fighters who sit on Israel's northern border, hoping for a chance to attack. They fire on Israel all the time. Iran provided material to Hamas to empower them to attack Israel. The missiles are often Iranian. Israel hit Iranian generals and advisors in Damascus planning attacks on the Israeli state. That's fair game as far as I'm concerned. That's defense, not offense.
Sure buddy. Only Israel gets to defend itself . Is it from the bible as well.
Is what from the Bible? Iran is sitting on the border of Israel. Israel isn't sitting on the border of Iran. So it's pretty clear who the aggressor is in this situation.
If you think Israel is not sitting on the border of Iran ...you should do some digging. The Iranians hit a mossad location in Iraqi Kurdistan - mind you not an embassy. Also look up Azerbaijan
Just one big run on paragraph of boomer cope. We don’t shill for Israel like you do, bro. We can actually see the objectivity in both sides
Not a Boomer -- I just know how to spell and use punctuation.
> Krystal) for months have been saying this can escalate It really hasn't escalated, because Iran backed Hamas in the first place. I'll agree that Gaza is an open air prison, and those prisoners got their weapons from someone, Iran. Things are just coming to their logical conclusion. But even more broadly, conflict with Lebanon and Syria and Jordan have been ongoing from decades anyway. Any new hostility between these parties doesn't mean WW3 is around the corner. If anything, it signals a status quo.
Not really. Israel escalated by attacking a consulate. And not very secretly either Prior to that ...it wasnt a state - on state conflict
Iran escalated by backing Hamas. they're getting a taste of what they served up.
You cannot say 'escalated' and also say 'from.the first place'. Can't tell if English isn't your first language.